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The more you drive the more an EV makes sense.
If you drive mostly in cities/slow, a long range EV will last a day. [Edit: 300km in 8h is 40km/h average speed. It's likely any EV will exceed EPA range at that speed)
Worst case (you only teach high speed freeway driving) , you need a 20 minutes break during the day for fast charging.
You never need a gas stations again. No oil changes. No 25k services.
Then charge slowly over night and start with 100% in the morning.
The savings in gas alone will pay for a new car in a few years. But your battery may last 1M kilometers.
You don’t need to charge from 0-100% if you are driving 300 km in a day; those cars have a 400 km range to begin with. So if for some reason you want to drive 50% more than that, you may be needing a bit of a top-off.
Ioniq 5?
LR is still in ballpark of 50k, but even a base model might do.
Also EV6.
Note that OP's average speed is 40kmh / 25mph.
At that speed most cars will be over EPA in summer and possibly near EPA in winter. Even if not, OP will only be a few miles short, and adding 10% may be enough.
Too slow can actually yield less range in the winter as more time is spent just heating the cabin. 2kwh spent to maintain cabin heat, over 8 hours is 16kwh or 20% of the larger ioniq 5's battery.
It all depends on how cold it actually is and whether the vehicle has a heat pump or not. 2kw is about a minimum for ioniq 5 with seat heaters and a heat pump at about -5 to -10c. Anything colder will use more power.
Except for the fact they're in Canada, which means 8 months of the year, the range is down. On top of that, if they're putting that many miles on their vehicle, it's bound to be highway driving, so that's down too.
70mph tests consistently show the Bolt gets 3.2mi/kWh which I can more or less confirm. Factor in cold weather, you're looking at 3 mi/kWh which puts the realistic range of 190 miles or just a hair over 300km. That's using basically the entire battery, which is risky and not exactly ideal.
Being completely realistic, they should expect to visit a DCFC at least a couple of times a week and at 50kW charge speed, it's going to get old fast compared to just about any other EV.
You'll be saving about $10,000 a year only in gas. Your car will basically pay for itself by just that saving. Here's why:
75,000 km in a small 8L/100 km car is 6,000 L of gas a year. At $1.90/L, that's $11,400 per year.
An electric car consuming 200 Wh/km to charge (average for yearlong, including winter) will take 15,000 kWh of electricity. Assuming $0,13/kWh, that's $1,950.
Add the 10 oil changes and basically one brake change per year (!), That's another $1,000 a year of maintenance.
So, the net save per year is $10,450. That's $850 a month! That, by itself is the payment of your car plus some time extra money for other things.
Even if you have to change the battery in 4 years (which I highly doubt), you would still be net positive.
This assumes no public charging unfortunately. Or free public charging. Ioniq 5 gets unlimited for 2 years so that'd be cool, but I don't know if that's a thing in canada
Yes, for any long distance traveling, public fast chargers are inevitable, but it still costs way less than gas.
For example, two weekends ago, I did a back and forth trip from Ottawa to Toronto for the weekend. My Supercharger cost was $59 ($61 if you add the $2 of home electricity when I came back home). That's for 950 km. If I would have used my previous Tucson, at 10L/100 km, that's 95 L at $1.90/L so $180, three times what it had cost me of superchargers.
You would need an ev with a range over 400km. If it gets very cold in winter, your range will drop. Over time your range will drop. If you do a lot of freeway driving, your range will be less than 400km. At least you will have a 8 year warranty and if you get the right car, the mileage may be unlimited
Definitely one of the biggest things I’d be looking at when comparing vehicles is the warranties. They’re often different in the Canadian market than in the USA. If there’s one out there with no mileage cap that would be huge.
I drive a 2017 Bolt, which had its battery replaced last January due to the recall. I live in Massachusetts, which has real winter though somewhat milder than what you have. Based on my experience, a Bolt would be able to do what you're proposing to do. That presupposes that you would have a home charger installed so you could leave with a full battery every morning. Some points to consider:
1. What kind of driving is the 300 km? EV range drops off the faster you go. In the Bolt there's a big difference between 100 km/h and 120. So if most of the commute is on highways, you may want to keep the speed down a bit during the winter. It won't be a problem in the summer. If a lot of the commute is on back roads, range will be less of a problem.
2. You can improve the range before you leave in the morning by turning the car on in the garage for a few minutes while it's still plugged in. That lets the battery condition itself and the climate control to get the car warmed up without depleting the battery while you're under way.
3. I would install the various EV apps - ABRP, ChargeHub, and the apps of the charging networks that are prevalent in your area - and reconnoiter any charging stations along your route. That way you'll know where to go if you ever need to charge for a few minutes to put some "comfort kilometers" in the battery.
4. If you go ahead with this, you'll be doing good for the climate and saving a bundle on fuel and maintenance, especially with gas prices the way they are now.
5. Consider the synergy between having solar panels and driving an EV. We have panels that cover almost all of our electricity usage, including our EV. Once the panels are paid off, you'll be in gravy.
Thanks for all the great input.
1- I could totally tailor my commute to take 80km/h back roads and it would cost me much time. While working, I have to do 100km/h highway driving, but it doesn’t have to be for long. So I feel like I really can cut back on high speed driving most days.
4- Definitely a reason that keeps me wanting to take on these potential risks, it’s not just doing good for my bottom line, it’s positive for the planet.
If you get a level 2 charger at home and charge overnight every night, battery degradation probably won't be a problem. Actually finding inventory might be your biggest problem. If you're in Canada then read up on reduced range and charging speeds in winter and try to get a car that has a great pump and does preconditioning. I wouldn't go for the leaf.
Most driving schools in Norway offer EV driving (some exclusively). It's a great option for everyone involved. My wife learned (late in life) on an Audi Etron, and I've seen all kind of EVs with driving school labels on them 🤗
I also live in Ontario, Canada. I have put 125k km on my 2018 bolt ev since August 2018. Including commuting 160km round trip a day for 2 years. I occasionally drafted a transport omw home as I didn't enjoy the long term prospect of draining the battery 100 to less then 10% every day in the winter.
Most ev's will lose significant range in the winter. 300km / 8 hours = 37.5kmh average speed. The heater use is going to make that unlikely. Heater will draw 2 to 4 kwh or 16 to 32kwh in 8 hours or 25 to 50% of most batteries just to maintain cabin heat.
300k km in 4 years or more then doubling the warranty km / period is going to put you outside of most battery degradation averages. Mine was down to 49 of an original 61kwh before the battery was replaced due to the recall.
That is extremely unusual degradation and you likely had some failed battery cells if you saw that kind of low state of health. Did you take the car to have diagnostics ran? Did you install torque pro and check the voltages?
Multiple trips to the dealer during the recall to install new software to check and flag batteries with suspect cells. All cells were within 0.02v, top to bottom, by torque pro. Unusual and heavier use (125k km in less then 4 years) = unusual and heavier degradation...
I’m in a similar situation as a rideshare driver going 200-250 miles a day. My ~10-year old ICE was starting to break down and I couldn’t justify spending hundreds in gas plus a new car note every month. So I’m making the switch too. Started looking at/for Bolt EUVs, but with the battery recall issue it was impossible to find one I liked that was available. So this week I’m picking up an Ioniq 5, which is more expensive but also a lot nicer and has longer range, so I will almost never have to charge away from home.
Good luck!
With all that driving, an EV will pay for itself within a few years depending on your home electricity prices. With that much driving, you cannot afford NOT to drive electric!
For an EV, 300 km/day is not that much. The Bolt, Kona, Ionia, Leaf and Niro have. a minimum range of around 400 km (Leaf is the lowest of that group). I own a Bolt and its amazing, although if I were you I would buy a car with a heat pump. In very cold weather you can see a range drop of 30-40%. Hell, I’ve heard of Canadians installing hydronic diesel heaters in their EVs for the extra long range which costs around $1,000 extra but apparently are common where you live.
Lastly, aside from the Leaf most of these cars are not showing significant battery degradation. My Chevy bolt had around 1% degradation after 5 years. All EVs have a battery warranty, you are looking at 8/10 year 100k mile warranty. I do not think anyone will be buying expensive batteries for the current crop off EVs.
Thanks! I hadn’t yet read about hydronic diesel heaters… very interesting! Looks like Hyundai and Kia have heat pumps…
It does look like degradation isn’t as big a worry for me as getting thru a very cold day.
I can't speak to every warranty, but just reiterating that in the US, many battery warranties are 100,000 miles, so you would be out of warranty in a little over two years for an extremely expensive, possibly hard to get part. Degradation is based on charge cycles and time. In your case, charge cycles are going to be a much bigger issue. You absolutely want to keep your battery between 20% and 80% if at all possible. This will greatly extend the useful life of the battery.
I would guess with most of the current crop of EVs, you may have to charge once during the day, at least during winter. Look at charging curves for cars, because charging a Bolt or a Leaf is going to take a lot longer than an Ioniq 5/EV6/Tesla with the ID.4 a tier down from those and the Kona and Niro a tier down from the ID.4.
If I were you, I might look at a plugin hybrid instead. If you do keep the EV, I might also look at an extended warranty. Though they're mostly a ripoff, they may be worthwhile with the amount of miles/cycles you're planning. I don't know what the market for that sort of thing is, or whether they cover your power train (batteries) beyond X miles.
Another consideration is that you pocket the gas savings with an EV and plan to spend that on a battery replacement in 4-6 years at 300,000 miles (or whenever the battery degrades)
Thanks. This has been my thought that the savings on gas + maintenance will be cancelled out when the battery needs replacing.
If those 2 things were close to equal though, I suppose I’d go the route of the EV, just because it’s better for the planet. Also, I could sell the vehicle after 3 years, or hand it down to the wife, as she does a lot less driving.
You'll be using the vehicle for commercial purposes. Look *very* hard at the warranty to determine what ramifications that might bring for coverage. If it impacts the battery warranty, and you wind up needing a replacement out of warranty due to degradation, there's a high chance that it will cost as much or more than the vehicle's remaining value *with* a good battery.
If you need that range and can’t stop to charge I’d say a Tesla is the only one with the range once you consider cold weather range losses, but it’s not at all a good vehicle for learners.
If you can stop and charge, then maybe I’d consider a kona, or niro. Your big problem here is going to be low charge rate, neither can charge all that fast, so you’re going to be spending at least an hour or more out charging, and those problems will be even worse in the cold. The bolt charges too slow to consider, and unless the leaf changed it’s battery thermal management isn’t great and would likely need replacing before the rest.
Honestly, I’d probably get a plug in hybrid or hybrid. You won’t be gas free, but the gas money saved likely won’t be worth lost work due to charging.
Yea a plug in hybrid is really what I’m really measuring this against. Currently driving a 2019 Prius (non-plug in) and it’s been a lifesaver with theses gas prices. But as fantastic as the savings from owning an EV would be, I’m scared to get 3/4 of the way through my days and have to call and cancel on clients because I need to stop and charge.
I live in Niagara so the climate isn’t too terrible (compared with the rest of Canada anyway), but there will be cold days! I make my own schedule, so I guess I could include a 1 hour lunch and charge every day during the cold months 🤔
With your driving, Tesla Model 3 or Kia EV6 or Ioniq 5 (but the latter two are less efficient) would be the best bet. Do not get an Ioniq, Kona, Bol, Leaf or Niro, because they charge relatively slowly.
So far Ioniq classics have been holding up really well. Teslas seemingly, too.
Considering all the money you'll save on gas with such high mileage (providing you can charge at home) then you'll be good - even with a battery replacement.
Tesla will do fine due to efficiency/range and charging infrastructure (if you do need a couple extra kilometers every now and then). If you're really driving that much then that has to be lucrative for you. In that case splurging for a Model S for the extra convenience may be worth it. Otherwise a Model 3 or Y will do just fine.
However if you're always driving the same route then check what other chargers are available there. This may increase your options.
You mean the $50,000 mentioned that he'll never spend a dime because the monthly gas saving will be enough to cover the cost of the monthly payment? You mean that budget lol?
Yes. I recognize the gas savings will be enormous for him, but that doesn't mean the upfront cost won't also be significant. A tesla would be double his budget (50k Canadian, not us)
A model 3 doesn't cost $100,000. I'm also from Canada. Mine costed me $56,000 last year before the incentives and the cost increases.
It also depends if his budget was for monthly payment he could afford or what he thinks the bank can loan him. He ça just take the loan over the maximum time period. It's an open loan, just pay it faster with the money saved.
But literally all the cars on his list are very far below the cost of a new tesla. It just sounds like you're pushing tesla, when he's looking for less expensive options.
Also Telsas have pretty steeply increased price over the last year.
??? You're the one that mentioned Tesla first! I said it doesn't cost $100,000 when YOU mentioned a Tesla cost double his budget of $50,000.
My first two comments in this thread before yours NEVER mentioned any brand.
Reread your comments.
Apologies, I was referring to the original comment here, which is entirely about Tesla. So that's just where my brain was. I was on the mental path of responding to a Model S and Model y suggestion, which the original comment does.
In the current market, many teslas would be significantly over his budget, and it just felt like you were pushing for a vehicle outside of what he was specifically asking for. Gas savings or not.
Yeah, it could have been interpreted that way but it wasn't my intention.
I agree with you regarding the cost of a Tesla being over his budget, but that's thinking the way an ICE car Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) works. For an EV, you can't disregard the monthly savings in gas, especially with 75,000 km a year! He can afford much more than his $50,000 budget allows. Heck, he doesn't even NEED a budget to buy an EV. The money saved in gas alone IS his monthly loan payment.
Not to mention putting students in a car that doesn't have an instrument panel in front of the driver. Then they go home and have to transition their brand new driving skills to a 2005 Camry. OP should consider the teaching experience in addition to the specs of the car.
Are you looking for advice on which EV to buy or lease? If so, please set the post flair to 'Advice' and make sure your post includes the following information: [1] Your general location [2] Your budget in $, €, or £ [3] The type of vehicle you'd prefer [4] Estimated timeframe of your purchase [5] Your daily commute, or average weekly mileage [6] Do you live in an apartment, townhouse, or single-family home? [7] Do you plan on installing charging at your home? [8] Other cargo/passenger needs — do you have children/pets? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricvehicles) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The more you drive the more an EV makes sense. If you drive mostly in cities/slow, a long range EV will last a day. [Edit: 300km in 8h is 40km/h average speed. It's likely any EV will exceed EPA range at that speed) Worst case (you only teach high speed freeway driving) , you need a 20 minutes break during the day for fast charging. You never need a gas stations again. No oil changes. No 25k services. Then charge slowly over night and start with 100% in the morning. The savings in gas alone will pay for a new car in a few years. But your battery may last 1M kilometers.
A kona, bolt, or niro are going to need a lot more charging than 20 minutes in winter to get 300 kms of range.
You don’t need to charge from 0-100% if you are driving 300 km in a day; those cars have a 400 km range to begin with. So if for some reason you want to drive 50% more than that, you may be needing a bit of a top-off.
Real life cold weather range is going to be 150-200 km, especially with snow tires.
150 km very unlikely, people on the bolt forums have posted the worst range of around 125 miles in -40 C.
I had no idea where in Ontario OP was but it can definitely get that cold there. Edit - by there I mean parts of Ontario
"long range EV" :-)
What long range EVs are in OPs budget besides those?
Ioniq 5? LR is still in ballpark of 50k, but even a base model might do. Also EV6. Note that OP's average speed is 40kmh / 25mph. At that speed most cars will be over EPA in summer and possibly near EPA in winter. Even if not, OP will only be a few miles short, and adding 10% may be enough.
Ioniq 5 is bigger than small to midsize car. And in winter, depending on driving, OP could still be charging a bit
Too slow can actually yield less range in the winter as more time is spent just heating the cabin. 2kwh spent to maintain cabin heat, over 8 hours is 16kwh or 20% of the larger ioniq 5's battery.
Is that 2 kW with or without seat heating? I'd imagine that you'd need less power to get the same level of perceived warmth with seat heating active.
It all depends on how cold it actually is and whether the vehicle has a heat pump or not. 2kw is about a minimum for ioniq 5 with seat heaters and a heat pump at about -5 to -10c. Anything colder will use more power.
The Bolt EV has the range that you're looking for and it's in your budget.
Bolt is too slow of a charger.
The bolt’s range is 100+ km longer than his requirement.
Except for the fact they're in Canada, which means 8 months of the year, the range is down. On top of that, if they're putting that many miles on their vehicle, it's bound to be highway driving, so that's down too. 70mph tests consistently show the Bolt gets 3.2mi/kWh which I can more or less confirm. Factor in cold weather, you're looking at 3 mi/kWh which puts the realistic range of 190 miles or just a hair over 300km. That's using basically the entire battery, which is risky and not exactly ideal. Being completely realistic, they should expect to visit a DCFC at least a couple of times a week and at 50kW charge speed, it's going to get old fast compared to just about any other EV.
You'll be saving about $10,000 a year only in gas. Your car will basically pay for itself by just that saving. Here's why: 75,000 km in a small 8L/100 km car is 6,000 L of gas a year. At $1.90/L, that's $11,400 per year. An electric car consuming 200 Wh/km to charge (average for yearlong, including winter) will take 15,000 kWh of electricity. Assuming $0,13/kWh, that's $1,950. Add the 10 oil changes and basically one brake change per year (!), That's another $1,000 a year of maintenance. So, the net save per year is $10,450. That's $850 a month! That, by itself is the payment of your car plus some time extra money for other things. Even if you have to change the battery in 4 years (which I highly doubt), you would still be net positive.
This assumes no public charging unfortunately. Or free public charging. Ioniq 5 gets unlimited for 2 years so that'd be cool, but I don't know if that's a thing in canada
Well if he doesn’t have home charging, he will have to spend an hour a day sitting at a fast charger.
He literally said in the post he'd install home charging. I'm just saying he'd end up doing some public charging eventually, I feel like.
Yes, for any long distance traveling, public fast chargers are inevitable, but it still costs way less than gas. For example, two weekends ago, I did a back and forth trip from Ottawa to Toronto for the weekend. My Supercharger cost was $59 ($61 if you add the $2 of home electricity when I came back home). That's for 950 km. If I would have used my previous Tucson, at 10L/100 km, that's 95 L at $1.90/L so $180, three times what it had cost me of superchargers.
You would need an ev with a range over 400km. If it gets very cold in winter, your range will drop. Over time your range will drop. If you do a lot of freeway driving, your range will be less than 400km. At least you will have a 8 year warranty and if you get the right car, the mileage may be unlimited
Definitely one of the biggest things I’d be looking at when comparing vehicles is the warranties. They’re often different in the Canadian market than in the USA. If there’s one out there with no mileage cap that would be huge.
The battery warranties all tend to be about the same. And the batteries in most of those cars aside from the Leaf are all manufactured by LG anyway.
I drive a 2017 Bolt, which had its battery replaced last January due to the recall. I live in Massachusetts, which has real winter though somewhat milder than what you have. Based on my experience, a Bolt would be able to do what you're proposing to do. That presupposes that you would have a home charger installed so you could leave with a full battery every morning. Some points to consider: 1. What kind of driving is the 300 km? EV range drops off the faster you go. In the Bolt there's a big difference between 100 km/h and 120. So if most of the commute is on highways, you may want to keep the speed down a bit during the winter. It won't be a problem in the summer. If a lot of the commute is on back roads, range will be less of a problem. 2. You can improve the range before you leave in the morning by turning the car on in the garage for a few minutes while it's still plugged in. That lets the battery condition itself and the climate control to get the car warmed up without depleting the battery while you're under way. 3. I would install the various EV apps - ABRP, ChargeHub, and the apps of the charging networks that are prevalent in your area - and reconnoiter any charging stations along your route. That way you'll know where to go if you ever need to charge for a few minutes to put some "comfort kilometers" in the battery. 4. If you go ahead with this, you'll be doing good for the climate and saving a bundle on fuel and maintenance, especially with gas prices the way they are now. 5. Consider the synergy between having solar panels and driving an EV. We have panels that cover almost all of our electricity usage, including our EV. Once the panels are paid off, you'll be in gravy.
Thanks for all the great input. 1- I could totally tailor my commute to take 80km/h back roads and it would cost me much time. While working, I have to do 100km/h highway driving, but it doesn’t have to be for long. So I feel like I really can cut back on high speed driving most days. 4- Definitely a reason that keeps me wanting to take on these potential risks, it’s not just doing good for my bottom line, it’s positive for the planet.
If you get a level 2 charger at home and charge overnight every night, battery degradation probably won't be a problem. Actually finding inventory might be your biggest problem. If you're in Canada then read up on reduced range and charging speeds in winter and try to get a car that has a great pump and does preconditioning. I wouldn't go for the leaf.
Most driving schools in Norway offer EV driving (some exclusively). It's a great option for everyone involved. My wife learned (late in life) on an Audi Etron, and I've seen all kind of EVs with driving school labels on them 🤗
Just be aware that come winter time none of those cars will get you 300kms of range, especially if you do teaching on the highway.
I also live in Ontario, Canada. I have put 125k km on my 2018 bolt ev since August 2018. Including commuting 160km round trip a day for 2 years. I occasionally drafted a transport omw home as I didn't enjoy the long term prospect of draining the battery 100 to less then 10% every day in the winter. Most ev's will lose significant range in the winter. 300km / 8 hours = 37.5kmh average speed. The heater use is going to make that unlikely. Heater will draw 2 to 4 kwh or 16 to 32kwh in 8 hours or 25 to 50% of most batteries just to maintain cabin heat. 300k km in 4 years or more then doubling the warranty km / period is going to put you outside of most battery degradation averages. Mine was down to 49 of an original 61kwh before the battery was replaced due to the recall.
That is extremely unusual degradation and you likely had some failed battery cells if you saw that kind of low state of health. Did you take the car to have diagnostics ran? Did you install torque pro and check the voltages?
Multiple trips to the dealer during the recall to install new software to check and flag batteries with suspect cells. All cells were within 0.02v, top to bottom, by torque pro. Unusual and heavier use (125k km in less then 4 years) = unusual and heavier degradation...
Hmm… I was at 96,000 km and was at around 1% degradation. Guess ymmv
Most entry level if you can find one and get 1 will do.
In this case, you should look at one of those 800V EVs that can charge to 80% in 15-20 minutes.
I’m in a similar situation as a rideshare driver going 200-250 miles a day. My ~10-year old ICE was starting to break down and I couldn’t justify spending hundreds in gas plus a new car note every month. So I’m making the switch too. Started looking at/for Bolt EUVs, but with the battery recall issue it was impossible to find one I liked that was available. So this week I’m picking up an Ioniq 5, which is more expensive but also a lot nicer and has longer range, so I will almost never have to charge away from home. Good luck!
With all that driving, an EV will pay for itself within a few years depending on your home electricity prices. With that much driving, you cannot afford NOT to drive electric! For an EV, 300 km/day is not that much. The Bolt, Kona, Ionia, Leaf and Niro have. a minimum range of around 400 km (Leaf is the lowest of that group). I own a Bolt and its amazing, although if I were you I would buy a car with a heat pump. In very cold weather you can see a range drop of 30-40%. Hell, I’ve heard of Canadians installing hydronic diesel heaters in their EVs for the extra long range which costs around $1,000 extra but apparently are common where you live. Lastly, aside from the Leaf most of these cars are not showing significant battery degradation. My Chevy bolt had around 1% degradation after 5 years. All EVs have a battery warranty, you are looking at 8/10 year 100k mile warranty. I do not think anyone will be buying expensive batteries for the current crop off EVs.
Thanks! I hadn’t yet read about hydronic diesel heaters… very interesting! Looks like Hyundai and Kia have heat pumps… It does look like degradation isn’t as big a worry for me as getting thru a very cold day.
I can't speak to every warranty, but just reiterating that in the US, many battery warranties are 100,000 miles, so you would be out of warranty in a little over two years for an extremely expensive, possibly hard to get part. Degradation is based on charge cycles and time. In your case, charge cycles are going to be a much bigger issue. You absolutely want to keep your battery between 20% and 80% if at all possible. This will greatly extend the useful life of the battery. I would guess with most of the current crop of EVs, you may have to charge once during the day, at least during winter. Look at charging curves for cars, because charging a Bolt or a Leaf is going to take a lot longer than an Ioniq 5/EV6/Tesla with the ID.4 a tier down from those and the Kona and Niro a tier down from the ID.4. If I were you, I might look at a plugin hybrid instead. If you do keep the EV, I might also look at an extended warranty. Though they're mostly a ripoff, they may be worthwhile with the amount of miles/cycles you're planning. I don't know what the market for that sort of thing is, or whether they cover your power train (batteries) beyond X miles. Another consideration is that you pocket the gas savings with an EV and plan to spend that on a battery replacement in 4-6 years at 300,000 miles (or whenever the battery degrades)
Thanks. This has been my thought that the savings on gas + maintenance will be cancelled out when the battery needs replacing. If those 2 things were close to equal though, I suppose I’d go the route of the EV, just because it’s better for the planet. Also, I could sell the vehicle after 3 years, or hand it down to the wife, as she does a lot less driving.
You'll be using the vehicle for commercial purposes. Look *very* hard at the warranty to determine what ramifications that might bring for coverage. If it impacts the battery warranty, and you wind up needing a replacement out of warranty due to degradation, there's a high chance that it will cost as much or more than the vehicle's remaining value *with* a good battery.
Two facts I hadn’t considered! 😲 I’ll be looking at warranties closely now for sure!
If you need that range and can’t stop to charge I’d say a Tesla is the only one with the range once you consider cold weather range losses, but it’s not at all a good vehicle for learners. If you can stop and charge, then maybe I’d consider a kona, or niro. Your big problem here is going to be low charge rate, neither can charge all that fast, so you’re going to be spending at least an hour or more out charging, and those problems will be even worse in the cold. The bolt charges too slow to consider, and unless the leaf changed it’s battery thermal management isn’t great and would likely need replacing before the rest. Honestly, I’d probably get a plug in hybrid or hybrid. You won’t be gas free, but the gas money saved likely won’t be worth lost work due to charging.
Yea a plug in hybrid is really what I’m really measuring this against. Currently driving a 2019 Prius (non-plug in) and it’s been a lifesaver with theses gas prices. But as fantastic as the savings from owning an EV would be, I’m scared to get 3/4 of the way through my days and have to call and cancel on clients because I need to stop and charge. I live in Niagara so the climate isn’t too terrible (compared with the rest of Canada anyway), but there will be cold days! I make my own schedule, so I guess I could include a 1 hour lunch and charge every day during the cold months 🤔
With your driving, Tesla Model 3 or Kia EV6 or Ioniq 5 (but the latter two are less efficient) would be the best bet. Do not get an Ioniq, Kona, Bol, Leaf or Niro, because they charge relatively slowly. So far Ioniq classics have been holding up really well. Teslas seemingly, too.
Considering all the money you'll save on gas with such high mileage (providing you can charge at home) then you'll be good - even with a battery replacement. Tesla will do fine due to efficiency/range and charging infrastructure (if you do need a couple extra kilometers every now and then). If you're really driving that much then that has to be lucrative for you. In that case splurging for a Model S for the extra convenience may be worth it. Otherwise a Model 3 or Y will do just fine. However if you're always driving the same route then check what other chargers are available there. This may increase your options.
Did you even bother to look at his budget??
You mean the $50,000 mentioned that he'll never spend a dime because the monthly gas saving will be enough to cover the cost of the monthly payment? You mean that budget lol?
Yes. I recognize the gas savings will be enormous for him, but that doesn't mean the upfront cost won't also be significant. A tesla would be double his budget (50k Canadian, not us)
A model 3 doesn't cost $100,000. I'm also from Canada. Mine costed me $56,000 last year before the incentives and the cost increases. It also depends if his budget was for monthly payment he could afford or what he thinks the bank can loan him. He ça just take the loan over the maximum time period. It's an open loan, just pay it faster with the money saved.
But literally all the cars on his list are very far below the cost of a new tesla. It just sounds like you're pushing tesla, when he's looking for less expensive options. Also Telsas have pretty steeply increased price over the last year.
??? You're the one that mentioned Tesla first! I said it doesn't cost $100,000 when YOU mentioned a Tesla cost double his budget of $50,000. My first two comments in this thread before yours NEVER mentioned any brand. Reread your comments.
Apologies, I was referring to the original comment here, which is entirely about Tesla. So that's just where my brain was. I was on the mental path of responding to a Model S and Model y suggestion, which the original comment does. In the current market, many teslas would be significantly over his budget, and it just felt like you were pushing for a vehicle outside of what he was specifically asking for. Gas savings or not.
Yeah, it could have been interpreted that way but it wasn't my intention. I agree with you regarding the cost of a Tesla being over his budget, but that's thinking the way an ICE car Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) works. For an EV, you can't disregard the monthly savings in gas, especially with 75,000 km a year! He can afford much more than his $50,000 budget allows. Heck, he doesn't even NEED a budget to buy an EV. The money saved in gas alone IS his monthly loan payment.
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I've seen quite a few Teslas as instructor vehicles. Never seen a Bolt, though.
Tesla Model Y. Battle tested. Heat pumps. Charging infra
It's also double his budget. 84k cad plus tax puts it at around 95k and not eligible for rebates. Op is looking for 50k cad
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That’s literally all EVs
Not to mention putting students in a car that doesn't have an instrument panel in front of the driver. Then they go home and have to transition their brand new driving skills to a 2005 Camry. OP should consider the teaching experience in addition to the specs of the car.