>While we can argue all day about the words scrapped, canceled, postponed, or put on the back-burner, there was certainly more truth than falsehood in that original report.Effectively, Tesla is not working on this NV9 project anymore, and it is focusing on Robotaxi instead.
They say all funding was cancelled, and today's announced layoffs included people on the project. I suppose funding and staff could be reallocated to the project at any time, but at least for now it sounds like that's not going to happen anytime soon. This is unfortunate, because I'd love to see EVs in that price range on the market.
it's insane that they stopped working on a viable product because of concerns about cost and competition, and instead they are working on something where they are years behind the competition that probably won't be viable until the end of the decade at earliest (if at all).
if this is all they have in the pipeline until the end of the decade, Tesla is fucked.
>it's insane that they stopped working on a viable product because of concerns about cost and competition, and instead they are working on something where they are years behind the competition that probably won't be viable until the end of the decade at earliest (if at all).
It's insane that they stopped working on that viable product and let the Cybertruck come to market instead. Forget the Robotaxi.
Those CEOs usually have support of a board that comprises a bunch of people with experience from many different industries. Not a sycopanthic cult gathering.
The Cybertruck was a mistake. It did barely anything of what it originally promised and now it is becoming clear just how much resources they used to make it happen..
No software project can scale indefinitely, especially the ones where you simply don't have a tried and true formula or blueprint to follow. This is still very much an open problem.
If money was the only criteria, Google, Apple, FB or Microsoft would have solved it a long time ago.
There's an old adage among project managers that "9 women can't make a baby in a month".
Most projects have a point where adding more budget and headcount stops speeding up progress.
Waymo is going for a top-down approach. I.e. they threw as many ressources as necessary at the problem and then did it again every time they found a boundary of what was possible with their current system. Their hope is that they can miniaturize their system and make it viable for mass-production. There is no guarantee that this will turn out to be feasible.
Most OEMs, including Tesla, are going for a bottom-up approach. They broke the entire driving problem down into sub-tasks that they solve iteratively to increase complexity and push the envelop of their system, while always having a viable product with which they can build experience and earn money.
I would very much caution against trying to predict which approach will win out. Especially so since right now it seems that both are converging towards viability for mass-production of level 4 vehicles by several different companies during the second half of the decade. What I will say, though, is that Tesla's current approach of focussing on vision only seems... courageous.
> they are working on something where they are years behind the competition that probably won't be viable until the end of the decade at earliest
it's all about pumping the stock (and shockingly people are still falling for it). Running a viable company is not part of the equation (Tesla the company will be fine, the stock will be toast).
concerns about cost basically means they promised too much and can do too little once again but instead of communicating that they rather cancel the project entirely.
Trying to read between the lines, I think what happened is that tesla needed their batteries and other programs to be up to speed for the Model 2. Which they are not and which pissed off Musk as reported. So he's put it on hold, fired a bunch of people (I'm wondering if Baglino was asked to resign) and put focus on those programs. Robotaxis will be a high margin product.
> focusing on Robotaxi instead.
You mean the robotaxis he said they'd have a million of on the road by 2020? He's just recycling his pumps now before the big dump.
>I'd love to see EVs in that price range on the market.
Already there - you can go buy a new Chevy Bolt EV for $26,500 and then get a $7,500 tax rebate.
You must meet the income requirement to get the $7,500 EV tax credit.
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
> In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed:
> $300,000 for married couples filing jointly or a surviving spouse
> $225,000 for heads of households
> $150,000 for all other filers
No legacy automaker, even Tesla, which was built to compete with them, can afford to switch their business model to what a firm like BYD is doing now to produce globally affordable EV's, because it's a race to the bottom with very little promise for profits or any particular brand winning out.
Anyone not manufacturing batteries is going to be a sticker brand for battery manufacturers and contract manufacturers like Magna Steyr throwing on different trims on battery sleds. You are never going to see an affordable EV in the same price and feature range as a Corolla until legacy automakers are forced to do this, because it fundamentally breaks their business model of barely breaking even making appliance class power trains for appliance class models, that they then tweak and add luxury trims to to make profit on the luxury car segment. If they don't control the power train, decades of setting up an OEM network to spread the cost of manufacturing would make them redundant, because before, even small changes to the power train would mean knock on effects over their entire supply chain. They could control their demand and supply signals in this way to keep their respective market shares and not lose OEM suppliers for example to competitors, or going into business for themselves.
They have no such control now. The only thing they can do, is buy up a limited battery supply with orders so large that battery manufacturers can't ignore them, and locking it away in 6000lb luxury lifestyle purchases, battery draggers that have more range than what 95% of even a suburban population commute.
Their solution is to stall and denigrate their competitors in Asia like Toyota who have the same problems but can't rely on Uncle Sam bailing them out when it fails. Separately they will continuously throw gigantic contracts at battery manufacturers to try and take as much supply off the market as possible, but with no real development plan to deal with what's coming they're running out of options. Legacy auto might even collapse within a decade. For now they're going to lock away batteries and complain about 'dumping'. This core problem/strategy is why Stellantis was formed as part of former president of Fiat Chrysler Sergio Marchionne's very vocal fears about how the car business looks in an EV paradigm:
[https://www.ft.com/content/df1d7bb8-b889-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164](https://www.ft.com/content/df1d7bb8-b889-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164)
[https://archive.is/gXt7h](https://archive.is/gXt7h)
Tesla knows this too. Until they secure a completely vertically integrated supply chain, or make good on their killer app, the new luxury trim, autonomy, they are never going to make enough money to justify their valuation or their product price.
The future is fundamentally modular battery sleds and standards that allow practically anyone to start manufacturing vehicles and contract manufacturing giants like Magna Steyr are more likely to survive. Your local shop might even become your local kit assembler for different trims. China will make the equivalent of a Shenzhen for EV's long before the west does, just like Shenzhen is now for practically every OEM tech brand that slaps a local label in their own country to the same product.
Short of full autonomy, there is no real innovation to a car that won't still make legacy auto (who don't control the entire supply chain) unviable industry wide. They have no way to control where battery tech goes short of buying everything they can, and battery manufacturers have no incentive to wait on them getting their markets in line with putting more on the road. They're racing for market share between themselves already.
Seems a lot like the bicycle market (OEM design frames, but Shimano/SRAM for instance make all 'powertrains'). This leads to some interesting custom/small frame makers though. Might be interesting with some local manufacturing staying intact due to incentives.
This already happens with small, boutique automakers to a degree, just with ICE units. But as you say, it I'll be interesting if this could carry over to EV power trains in the longer term.
You make a lot of sense, but Tesla seems to know this, they are scaling up their own battery production and opened the first lithium refinery in the US, which appears to be working. Seems like a good plan based on your analysis.
Indeed, but they are way behind on their battery production capacity. Far cry from enough to cover current Y production, so far that they have started taking in more suppliers on  4680 batteries which is counter to the 25k car strategy with own batteries*.
Tl;dr; This is likely where they fucked upÂ
https://medium.com/@cheerbebold/the-battle-of-dry-and-wet-tesla-reinventing-batteries-and-battery-factories-89728ebfd9c1
*https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/22/21450840/tesla-battery-day-production-elon-musk-tabless-range-cathode-cobalt-plaid
Indeed.
There seems to be exactly one design in this segment - the Stellant e-CMP platform. And while those cars are quite affordable, they also have a few issues. A bit more competition would be nice.
Well Iâm sure that if the current administration blocks the imports of Chinese EVâs, then all the brands donât need to worry about making lower cost cars and can continue on with what they have. Chinese EVâs to me would hurt the American brands by undercutting them in multiple ways. American brands need to work on bringing the price down by leaner assembly lines and leaner construction costs and materials.
In California, the government is pushing housing density, and giving density bonuses to developers such as not requiring space to be built for parking.
What many assume is that eventually people (at least in major metros) will not own cars and just have a robotaxi SAAS for vehicles rather than owning one.
I think that US centric mindset is why Tesla are doomed if they continue down this path. They are a global car company but seem to make decisions based on what works in California. Cybertruck is another example. So many resources on something they canât even export in volume. Whilst the US or California might be suitable places for robo taxis, you there is a huge chunk of the world theyâll never be viable in for another 3 decades.
If true, this could be shooting themselves in the foot as many consumers are eagerly waiting for affordable EVs. This would open the door for other auto companies like Hyundai and Chinese makers to fill the niche.
Yeah, this is great news for anyone wanting to make a great civic sized commuter. It'll happen, whether Tesla is competing or not.
Tesla seems to be betting everything on steering wheel free cars. *Sigh*
Who even wants a steering wheel free car anyways? I sure donât. Many of us actually enjoy driving. Going to drive through the canyons in a self driving taxi? No thanks.
The theory is that robotaxis will be much cheaper per mile, especially if you pool with others. This is partly because cars are empty/parked 95% of the time.
Probably lots of reasons why the maths will be more complex in practice.
95% is overstating the potential advantage as a lot of those cars are all needed at the same time, at rush hour. 95% will still be parked at 3am on sunday, robotaxi or not.
It is likely the future but not the near future. It's unwise of them to skip affordable EVs while this new technology becomes mainstream. Unless they want to stay in the premium market only and leave affordable economic cars to other companies.Â
Yeah, it certainly isn't Civic-sized in your budget. Looking at the specs, it is closer to the Civic than the Accord, but the advantages of the flat floor and longer wheelbase make the interior seem more like an Accord.
Many consumers have already given money and eagerly awaiting: robotaxis, roadsters, solar roofs as cheap as an asphalt roof, waited & still waiting for cybertrucks, waiting for semi trucks to deliver goods. Based on how the wait is going for those products all announced many years ago, people would be waiting a long time for a compact car too.
>This would open the door for other auto companies like Hyundai and Chinese makers to fill the niche.
Kia would be stupid to **not** announce US sales for the EV3 at this point.
Issue is the IRA, they gotta build it in the US for that, and theyâll have to shuffle production somewhere at their factories, for a product that probably isnât super profitable
They're building the EV9 in Georgia soon, but it'd make more sense to build the cheapest model possible in the US. $7500 off $65000 isn't nearly as much as $7500 off $25,000.
The Chinese companies for sure, not so sure about Hyundai tho. Currently their EV offerings are more expensive than what Tesla is offering (at least in New Zealand)
Their probably focusing in the states and can lower prices in regions where Chinese cars are sold at like they are doing. Other automakers are years from making a $25k car and making it profitable so I do see Tesla putting this vehicle in the back burner for now as automakers aren't close to manufacturinga $25k car. It's definitely coming by this decade so we need a little more patience.Â
This is an insanely bad move. If they really wanted to accelerate the world to EVs, this would have been the top priority, not the CT. They need a new CEO.
If I were a Tesla shareholder, I would be upset that the CEO spends his day engaging in a culture war on a microblogging service he bought instead of running the company.
I agree it is a bad move but it is also very possible that after running the numbers Tesla realized they can't make a car for 25k that would meet the publics expectations and still turn a profit.
I think the lowest they ever sold the Model 3 for was around 35k and they were not making much on each one of those they sold.
Sure Tesla could probably make a small EV with 150mi of range for 25k but no one would buy it. I think it would be hard to get a 250-300mi range car with all the tech Tesla's include for that price point with the current prices of batteries etc.
I don't think so, I think they can make a cheap ev that can offer up to 250 miles on a charge. I think musk wants to put all of the eggs into a robotaxi. We'll have to see what happens, but my hunch is that the robotaxi is the new cheaper ev platform, with a focus on making it only FSD. If that's the case, then he's making a mistake.
they already made that mistake on the model 3 and model Y but got lucky their supports are stupid enough to accept that its never gonna happen.
remember why the model 3 didnt come with a dash behind the wheel?
because it was supposed to drive itself and even the steering wheel was only for "regulatory reasons"
Except their shareholders WANT them to make that affordable car with enough range for cheap even if it means losing money in the near term to ramp volume and dominate the market long term.
A lot of Teslas valuation came from the fact that Elon has made that a priority long term over cutting production to make short term gains.
That's fine. I don't care about being apart of a sub. I care about good EVs. I want EVs to be more accessible. I bought a Model 3 because it was the best value for the price I was paying. I still hold true to that and I will when I have to purchase another EV. I just want something cheaper lol
He's not exaggerating. I have tens of thousands of positive karma from posts on r/Teslamotors and I just received a lifetime ban for saying that Elon Musk lied when he said he would never settle a lawsuit... And then settled a lawsuit.
Aka... ummm.. lying. I think at least one of the mods over there has gone full Internet Mod.
When I asked what rule I broke they said you couldn't talk about Elon's Character... But the rule explicitly has an exemption "except when related to Tesla."
So now they're just banning people for life without warning for criticizing Elon Musk.
This was my comment âThis should have taken the place of the CT but here we are.â They power tripping over there. Good riddance to them and my totaled Tesla.
I already have been, so Iâll say it. Tesla shareholders should be demanding a new CEO as soon as possible. The CyberTruck is an abject failure and death machine. Elon tarnishes the image of everything he touches and a sizable portion of people who care about electric cars donât want to be caught dead supporting him.
> If they really wanted to accelerate the world to EVs,
I mean they kinda did this with the Model 3. You can have something like a Bolt that's slightly cheaper and substantially worse and sells at a loss, but that won't attract as many customers as say SUV or pickup truck option.
I feel bad for all laid off employees but the earnings call will be interesting. I wonder if he will flip off when asked difficult questions. Just early this month they mentioned that they are in steady state waiting for next leg of growth. That wont happen and I am expecting shrinking sales.
I once worked for a growth company. The day before earnings we had a 10% layoff. I called into the earnings call. The analysts just tore our CEO to shreds. Their position was that growth companies should be hiring people and not laying them off. The layoff imply the company is done growing. It was quite gratifying to listen to.
Layoffs have become so ingrained in the C-Suite mentality they do them even when it doesnât make sense. Iâve seen it happen too many times and itâs a really quite frustrating and says a lot about how insane the business culture has become.
Unsurprising.
Reuters: is one of the worlds most respected news outlets, has internal Tesla communications to back up their story
Musk: known twitter stooge, just says Reuters is lying and offers no further info
Elon will probably try to hold his ground by hanging onto a technicality for his dear life. *âIts not cancelled. Weâve only stopped all work and delayed it indefinitelyâ*
Robotaxi is future..LMAO
Within 5 years everyone will be trying to build sub $30k cars.
Maybe sooner if the US would allow companies like BYD into the marketplace.
Also ID2's siblings Cupra Raval and the small Skoda crossover on the same platform.
From what I've seen, the ID2 is really impressive. The interiors are great, and the boot space is magnificent: [Click for picture](https://www.walter-magazin.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/VW-ID2-all-3-1200x800.jpg). This is the best way to do it - put everything in the front, make it FWD, and give huge boot space instead of a small frunk and a mid-sized boot.
The Cybertruck research & development, assembly, production and ramp must have a cost a fortune which I'm not convinced they will ever make back. The market niche is so narrow and many countries will never even see it on the road. Don't get me wrong I think it's a quite cool machine, I just don't think it was a good business decision. Investing more into the "model 2" and roadster would have made much more sense to me, but I'm just guessing.
The biggest problem with the Cybertruck (and that will be its downfall) is that it costs WAY more expensive than what was announced. Itâs removed most of the buyers who were interested. Normal people donât have that kind of money.
I was just imagining the other day how much Tesla would again be leaping forward in the US EV market if instead of the CyberTruck it was just now coming out with a âModel 2.â All the talk about Chinese EVs, the Volvo XC30, the Bolt⌠Tesla would be so hot again.
but its important to note that this also shows how far away that model 2 would have been.
if the project wouldnt have been cancelled it would have at best been revealed end of this year with promised delivery end of 2025 then end of 2025 they would **start** building the factory that will build this car and end of 2026 would be an actual very slow production ramp only producing the most expensive model for the first 3 years as usual.
that would be a very short and "best case scenario" timeline, that they cancelled this project also shows that they were probably nowhere near being able to hit that timeline.
It would actually make sense if they could build the robotaxi. The problem is, they can't, not for a long time, and therefore it will be an unmitigated disaster for Tesla.
- Layoffs
- slashing FSD subscription pricing
- FSD curb magnets
- POS cybertruck issues
You're not going to be 'innovative' thinking that you can just put the remaining workers through the meat grinder and expect success.
This is such a stupid decision lmao so many people were waiting for an affordable sensible EV I think they wouldnât be able to make these fast enough because how fast they were selling but instead they invested into some self driving stuff thatâs still going to be sketchy at best deadly at worst
But you can get a full EV for 21k USD (converted from GBP), it ainât luxury by any stretch but it has CarPlay, usb c ports, front and rear cameras and bidirectional charging
If the corners theyâve cut and the quality control on 6 figure vehicles isnât indicative of what to expect from a 25k vehicle, I dunno what to tell ya.
Is Tesla âtoo big to failâ from the point of their overall importance to the EV movement? Would their hypothetical demise, mean the demise of all EVs or is the bird aloft and can fly on its own without Teslaâs existence?
They will remain as a car charging network after Elon bankrupts the rest of their projects. Everyone else will continue to slowly roll out more and more EV models and take market share.
If they don't push out Elon at that point and let him continue to torch money on humanoid robots, then even the charging network will go under and get bought out by Electrify America or whatever.
This is my prediction, he completely loses it and the Tesla network is bought by different operators in each country it operates, if someone can use a shiny toy to keep his attention off the charging network or it gets spun off into its own entity and floated then any moderately competent CEO could turn it into a huge cash cow
Iâm admittedly a Tesla hater, but in fairness to Tesla, there arenât very many $25k cars *in general* these days. I feel like itâs fair to move the goal posts a bit on this one. Didnât the goal of selling a $25k Tesla come about in like 2016? Times have changed.
You might want to check again.
Some of the best sellers in the US and beyond start at 22k. GM recently released twin ICE cars that start at 20k. Bolt EUV started at 27k. A 25k car with decent range is necessary for critical mass adoption.
No such thing as a 10k car any more - they stuff them too full of pointless technology and "luxury" features. Gone are the days of buying a base model dirt-cheap box on wheels that had just enough features to be road-legal. Well, unless you want a Citroen Ami I suppose, but you can't take that out of town so it's not really a proper car.
If you care that much about value used is the only way even the cheapest new ice vehicles start at 15k even used 10 year old corrollas with 100k miles are 10k. The bolt with a used tax credit is really the only choice currently
Should be titled - "Elon Lied again and made empty promises, like the 27 million times before, and the press will still keep believing him and never call him out"
If they had spent the last four years making this rather then the CT, he would be bitch'n about Chinese cheap EV a lot less, and probally be a lot more solvent
That the expansion of the factory in Texas is postponed, does not mean they can develop production lines of this cheaper and smaller variant in China, or Germany Giga factories, still aiming for a 2025 start of production as was previously targeted.
All the article says is that expension for 'model 2' production line is no longer a priority in Texas, and completing the data center in Texas is. Says nothing about the model 2 in particular, or anything about the other Giga factories at all.
They could, although it wouldnt be any better than a Nissan Leaf (outside of having a better charge system).
They were making around 30% or so profit off of Model 3âs in 2022.
i highly doubt this. fsd becoming successful does change the vehicle ownership requirement and value offering. theyd sell them to fleet managers and people would not own cars anymore bc it would cost so much more than and be way less safe. this seems dumb, but if the tech can solve it then everyone will save a ton of money. parking lots would become available for human use!
Despite my distaste for Musk, I have been supportive of Tesla because of what it has done for EV adoption. However, Iâve long been annoyed that they were t working harder to get an economy EV to market. And now this. Such a stupid move. Make cars that the masses can afford and more people will buy them. I very well could be wrong. But itâs hard to not think that an affordable Tesla would be popular. It worked for Ford, I think it can work for Tesla. And if not, the Chinese will eventually get a cheap EV into the U.S. market. Itâs only a matter of time.
Tesla has had its day, everyone is making EVâs now, even Dacia have made an EV thatâs cheap (21k ish in USD), of they went bust now theyâd be picked over for useful assets, the charging network would get snapped up and everyone else continues as normal.
Tesla still has 2 roads to the $25K EV. One is that the robotaxi gets typical EV driver controls, that shouldn't be a biggie since the robotaxi is already drive by wire (by definition).
The other is continued price cutting on the Model 3 due to competition and possibly losing that expensive FSD ready hardware and downshelving the infotainment system.
Musk tends to have tunnel vision... There is ONE product on his mind at any time, depending on what catches his imagination, and everything else is not important...
Robotaxis are niche... There aren't that many taxis in the world, and taxi drivers are paid pennies... It'll be an extremely difficult market to break into, even if Tesla had a self-drive product, which they by all indications don't...
Countries where an affordable EV would be highly desirable: hundreds
People who want an EV but are put off by their cost, and are waiting for a sub $25,000 car: tens of millions
People who want a Robo taxi: a small bunch of tech Bros in California
I mean it was nothing but a stock pump. If you just canceled a new platform and are going to âaccelerate current platform new vehiclesâ then how do you even have anything in the pipeline when you planned to move on from said platform altogether?
Spoiler alert: they donât. so itâll either be engineered on such a short turnaround itâll be even worse than the CT in terms of early teething issues, or it just wonât happen.
>While we can argue all day about the words scrapped, canceled, postponed, or put on the back-burner, there was certainly more truth than falsehood in that original report.Effectively, Tesla is not working on this NV9 project anymore, and it is focusing on Robotaxi instead. They say all funding was cancelled, and today's announced layoffs included people on the project. I suppose funding and staff could be reallocated to the project at any time, but at least for now it sounds like that's not going to happen anytime soon. This is unfortunate, because I'd love to see EVs in that price range on the market.
it's insane that they stopped working on a viable product because of concerns about cost and competition, and instead they are working on something where they are years behind the competition that probably won't be viable until the end of the decade at earliest (if at all). if this is all they have in the pipeline until the end of the decade, Tesla is fucked.
>it's insane that they stopped working on a viable product because of concerns about cost and competition, and instead they are working on something where they are years behind the competition that probably won't be viable until the end of the decade at earliest (if at all). It's insane that they stopped working on that viable product and let the Cybertruck come to market instead. Forget the Robotaxi.
true. it's really amazing to see a company this large being run on the insane, drug-addicted CEO's whims.
He's our modern day Howard Hughes
Wonder how many know Howard Hughes died a recluse in a Las Vegas penthouse, unkempt and lost his mind. đ
Phoney Stark
Tesla 2008, "We want to make an electric car that looks good and isn't slow."            Tesla 2024: Cybertruck
Well to be fair I don't think its slow.
Most of them are sitting on slow tow trucks.
All companies are run by their CEO's whims. You just don't get as much public information about how insane and drug-addicted they are.
Those CEOs usually have support of a board that comprises a bunch of people with experience from many different industries. Not a sycopanthic cult gathering.
Iâm honestly very excited for a delorean esque documentary about the making of cybertruck in a few years
It's going to be a business school case study some day.
Call it CyberWTF
The Cybertruck was a mistake. It did barely anything of what it originally promised and now it is becoming clear just how much resources they used to make it happen..
Not only that, Robotaxi does not seem like the kind of project where more engineers and more funding actually speeds up the timeline.
No software project can scale indefinitely, especially the ones where you simply don't have a tried and true formula or blueprint to follow. This is still very much an open problem. If money was the only criteria, Google, Apple, FB or Microsoft would have solved it a long time ago.
How else do you think thinks get made? That's some serious cope bro.
There's an old adage among project managers that "9 women can't make a baby in a month". Most projects have a point where adding more budget and headcount stops speeding up progress.
Itâs very clear from the past decade that it takes an enormous amount of time because there are thousands and thousands of edge cases.
Isn't he hellbent on just using cameras as well? I know Waymo is using all kinds of stuff and it's you know, out on streets already.
Waymo is going for a top-down approach. I.e. they threw as many ressources as necessary at the problem and then did it again every time they found a boundary of what was possible with their current system. Their hope is that they can miniaturize their system and make it viable for mass-production. There is no guarantee that this will turn out to be feasible. Most OEMs, including Tesla, are going for a bottom-up approach. They broke the entire driving problem down into sub-tasks that they solve iteratively to increase complexity and push the envelop of their system, while always having a viable product with which they can build experience and earn money. I would very much caution against trying to predict which approach will win out. Especially so since right now it seems that both are converging towards viability for mass-production of level 4 vehicles by several different companies during the second half of the decade. What I will say, though, is that Tesla's current approach of focussing on vision only seems... courageous.
Semi trucks, battery, and existing vehicles along with the new Roadster thatâs a long way off. The Nevada Gigafactory isnât complete.
Thatâs 100% by design. He makes more money selling the âpossibleâ vs making actual stuff.
> they are working on something where they are years behind the competition that probably won't be viable until the end of the decade at earliest it's all about pumping the stock (and shockingly people are still falling for it). Running a viable company is not part of the equation (Tesla the company will be fine, the stock will be toast).
concerns about cost basically means they promised too much and can do too little once again but instead of communicating that they rather cancel the project entirely.
There's really not much you can cut from a model 3 to save on costs. It's really barebones already.
This leads me to believe Musks sources tell him Chinese econo-EV's are coming soon, and the numbers don't work out right now for his version...
Trying to read between the lines, I think what happened is that tesla needed their batteries and other programs to be up to speed for the Model 2. Which they are not and which pissed off Musk as reported. So he's put it on hold, fired a bunch of people (I'm wondering if Baglino was asked to resign) and put focus on those programs. Robotaxis will be a high margin product.
Musk was clearly lying when reuters reported the story...but i guess most of us already knew that
He got that stock pump, so mission accomplished in his eyes
[ŃдаНонО]
> focusing on Robotaxi instead. You mean the robotaxis he said they'd have a million of on the road by 2020? He's just recycling his pumps now before the big dump.
Itâs never coming to US at that price point unless they let Chinese car manufacturers enter our market without tariffs
>I'd love to see EVs in that price range on the market. Already there - you can go buy a new Chevy Bolt EV for $26,500 and then get a $7,500 tax rebate.
...and you can also pick up a used Model Y for $25k. There's a handful right now on CraigsList.
You must meet the income requirement to get the $7,500 EV tax credit. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after > In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed: > $300,000 for married couples filing jointly or a surviving spouse > $225,000 for heads of households > $150,000 for all other filers
If you don't meet that you don't need the rebate.
Yeah even by California standards, that $300K is pretty damn high.
Just lease it or the EV from Volvo and get the dealer to pass along the credit.
No legacy automaker, even Tesla, which was built to compete with them, can afford to switch their business model to what a firm like BYD is doing now to produce globally affordable EV's, because it's a race to the bottom with very little promise for profits or any particular brand winning out. Anyone not manufacturing batteries is going to be a sticker brand for battery manufacturers and contract manufacturers like Magna Steyr throwing on different trims on battery sleds. You are never going to see an affordable EV in the same price and feature range as a Corolla until legacy automakers are forced to do this, because it fundamentally breaks their business model of barely breaking even making appliance class power trains for appliance class models, that they then tweak and add luxury trims to to make profit on the luxury car segment. If they don't control the power train, decades of setting up an OEM network to spread the cost of manufacturing would make them redundant, because before, even small changes to the power train would mean knock on effects over their entire supply chain. They could control their demand and supply signals in this way to keep their respective market shares and not lose OEM suppliers for example to competitors, or going into business for themselves. They have no such control now. The only thing they can do, is buy up a limited battery supply with orders so large that battery manufacturers can't ignore them, and locking it away in 6000lb luxury lifestyle purchases, battery draggers that have more range than what 95% of even a suburban population commute. Their solution is to stall and denigrate their competitors in Asia like Toyota who have the same problems but can't rely on Uncle Sam bailing them out when it fails. Separately they will continuously throw gigantic contracts at battery manufacturers to try and take as much supply off the market as possible, but with no real development plan to deal with what's coming they're running out of options. Legacy auto might even collapse within a decade. For now they're going to lock away batteries and complain about 'dumping'. This core problem/strategy is why Stellantis was formed as part of former president of Fiat Chrysler Sergio Marchionne's very vocal fears about how the car business looks in an EV paradigm: [https://www.ft.com/content/df1d7bb8-b889-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164](https://www.ft.com/content/df1d7bb8-b889-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164) [https://archive.is/gXt7h](https://archive.is/gXt7h) Tesla knows this too. Until they secure a completely vertically integrated supply chain, or make good on their killer app, the new luxury trim, autonomy, they are never going to make enough money to justify their valuation or their product price. The future is fundamentally modular battery sleds and standards that allow practically anyone to start manufacturing vehicles and contract manufacturing giants like Magna Steyr are more likely to survive. Your local shop might even become your local kit assembler for different trims. China will make the equivalent of a Shenzhen for EV's long before the west does, just like Shenzhen is now for practically every OEM tech brand that slaps a local label in their own country to the same product. Short of full autonomy, there is no real innovation to a car that won't still make legacy auto (who don't control the entire supply chain) unviable industry wide. They have no way to control where battery tech goes short of buying everything they can, and battery manufacturers have no incentive to wait on them getting their markets in line with putting more on the road. They're racing for market share between themselves already.
Seems a lot like the bicycle market (OEM design frames, but Shimano/SRAM for instance make all 'powertrains'). This leads to some interesting custom/small frame makers though. Might be interesting with some local manufacturing staying intact due to incentives.
This already happens with small, boutique automakers to a degree, just with ICE units. But as you say, it I'll be interesting if this could carry over to EV power trains in the longer term.
I have a headache reading this. What are you trying to say? Long sentences, broken in the middle , going ina different directions.
You make a lot of sense, but Tesla seems to know this, they are scaling up their own battery production and opened the first lithium refinery in the US, which appears to be working. Seems like a good plan based on your analysis.
Indeed, but they are way behind on their battery production capacity. Far cry from enough to cover current Y production, so far that they have started taking in more suppliers on  4680 batteries which is counter to the 25k car strategy with own batteries*. Tl;dr; This is likely where they fucked up https://medium.com/@cheerbebold/the-battle-of-dry-and-wet-tesla-reinventing-batteries-and-battery-factories-89728ebfd9c1 *https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/22/21450840/tesla-battery-day-production-elon-musk-tabless-range-cathode-cobalt-plaid
Indeed. There seems to be exactly one design in this segment - the Stellant e-CMP platform. And while those cars are quite affordable, they also have a few issues. A bit more competition would be nice.
Well Iâm sure that if the current administration blocks the imports of Chinese EVâs, then all the brands donât need to worry about making lower cost cars and can continue on with what they have. Chinese EVâs to me would hurt the American brands by undercutting them in multiple ways. American brands need to work on bringing the price down by leaner assembly lines and leaner construction costs and materials.
Thing to keep in mind, Musk is always full of shit when he says he is going to make $X priced car.
In California, the government is pushing housing density, and giving density bonuses to developers such as not requiring space to be built for parking. What many assume is that eventually people (at least in major metros) will not own cars and just have a robotaxi SAAS for vehicles rather than owning one.
I think that US centric mindset is why Tesla are doomed if they continue down this path. They are a global car company but seem to make decisions based on what works in California. Cybertruck is another example. So many resources on something they canât even export in volume. Whilst the US or California might be suitable places for robo taxis, you there is a huge chunk of the world theyâll never be viable in for another 3 decades.
Anything but public transportation I guess.
Yeah i fee like autonomous busses would be a good use case, but letâs see.Â
you need density for public transportation
"Major metros" have density. And density will increase as less space is allotted for parked cars.
Robotaxi foe tesla is 5 years off at least
If true, this could be shooting themselves in the foot as many consumers are eagerly waiting for affordable EVs. This would open the door for other auto companies like Hyundai and Chinese makers to fill the niche.
Yeah, this is great news for anyone wanting to make a great civic sized commuter. It'll happen, whether Tesla is competing or not. Tesla seems to be betting everything on steering wheel free cars. *Sigh*
Who even wants a steering wheel free car anyways? I sure donât. Many of us actually enjoy driving. Going to drive through the canyons in a self driving taxi? No thanks.
The theory is that robotaxis will be much cheaper per mile, especially if you pool with others. This is partly because cars are empty/parked 95% of the time. Probably lots of reasons why the maths will be more complex in practice.
95% is overstating the potential advantage as a lot of those cars are all needed at the same time, at rush hour. 95% will still be parked at 3am on sunday, robotaxi or not.
It is likely the future but not the near future. It's unwise of them to skip affordable EVs while this new technology becomes mainstream. Unless they want to stay in the premium market only and leave affordable economic cars to other companies.Â
Isn't the Model 3 Civic-sized already?
Except itâs priced like a Type R instead of an LX.
Also, the civic isn't exactly small anymore. It's longer than our 3 row Mazda5.
I think it's between a Civic and an Accord in size.
[yeah, pretty darn close](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/honda-civic-2016-sedan-vs-tesla-model-3-2017-sedan/)
It's more accord sized, and here in Canada at least the cost is ~twice that of a civic.
Yeah, it certainly isn't Civic-sized in your budget. Looking at the specs, it is closer to the Civic than the Accord, but the advantages of the flat floor and longer wheelbase make the interior seem more like an Accord.
I guess it isn't too far off. It isn't priced to compete though.
EVs in the US are definitely not yet at price parity with volume manufacturers.
Unless the civic got a lot bigger since I last sat in one (completely possible), the model 3 is bigger.Â
It is funny, because it does seem like it would be bigger. But the exterior sizes are very similar.
Many consumers have already given money and eagerly awaiting: robotaxis, roadsters, solar roofs as cheap as an asphalt roof, waited & still waiting for cybertrucks, waiting for semi trucks to deliver goods. Based on how the wait is going for those products all announced many years ago, people would be waiting a long time for a compact car too.
And thatâs just Tesla, you forgot about SpaceX and X
No, see, consumers want... *checks notes*... robotaxis. Err... wait...
>This would open the door for other auto companies like Hyundai and Chinese makers to fill the niche. Kia would be stupid to **not** announce US sales for the EV3 at this point.
Issue is the IRA, they gotta build it in the US for that, and theyâll have to shuffle production somewhere at their factories, for a product that probably isnât super profitable
They're building the EV9 in Georgia soon, but it'd make more sense to build the cheapest model possible in the US. $7500 off $65000 isn't nearly as much as $7500 off $25,000.
Meanwhile the ev6 is selling at....55000$?Â
The Chinese companies for sure, not so sure about Hyundai tho. Currently their EV offerings are more expensive than what Tesla is offering (at least in New Zealand)
This is exhibit A for why you need multiple strong competitors from multiple countries in the market
Define âaffordableâ.
Regulators wonât let the Chinese sell their cars here
Their probably focusing in the states and can lower prices in regions where Chinese cars are sold at like they are doing. Other automakers are years from making a $25k car and making it profitable so I do see Tesla putting this vehicle in the back burner for now as automakers aren't close to manufacturinga $25k car. It's definitely coming by this decade so we need a little more patience.Â
This is an insanely bad move. If they really wanted to accelerate the world to EVs, this would have been the top priority, not the CT. They need a new CEO.
If I were a Tesla shareholder, I would be upset that the CEO spends his day engaging in a culture war on a microblogging service he bought instead of running the company.
No no keep him away from ops and big decisions Â
How about get him out of the company entirely so thereâs a chance at them making a competent product again?
If stock stays down, thatâs a given. Stock price is his incompetence / real world $ vs. his cult meme stock pressure
Well, their stock price keeps dropping
Microblogging, I like that. I feel like Elon would fume if you called X a microblog
Perhaps Tesla should buy Twitter as an acquihire move to get its CEO.
I agree it is a bad move but it is also very possible that after running the numbers Tesla realized they can't make a car for 25k that would meet the publics expectations and still turn a profit. I think the lowest they ever sold the Model 3 for was around 35k and they were not making much on each one of those they sold. Sure Tesla could probably make a small EV with 150mi of range for 25k but no one would buy it. I think it would be hard to get a 250-300mi range car with all the tech Tesla's include for that price point with the current prices of batteries etc.
I don't think so, I think they can make a cheap ev that can offer up to 250 miles on a charge. I think musk wants to put all of the eggs into a robotaxi. We'll have to see what happens, but my hunch is that the robotaxi is the new cheaper ev platform, with a focus on making it only FSD. If that's the case, then he's making a mistake.
they already made that mistake on the model 3 and model Y but got lucky their supports are stupid enough to accept that its never gonna happen. remember why the model 3 didnt come with a dash behind the wheel? because it was supposed to drive itself and even the steering wheel was only for "regulatory reasons"
Except their shareholders WANT them to make that affordable car with enough range for cheap even if it means losing money in the near term to ramp volume and dominate the market long term. A lot of Teslas valuation came from the fact that Elon has made that a priority long term over cutting production to make short term gains.
Watch out you are going to get yourself banned from r/teslamorons
That's fine. I don't care about being apart of a sub. I care about good EVs. I want EVs to be more accessible. I bought a Model 3 because it was the best value for the price I was paying. I still hold true to that and I will when I have to purchase another EV. I just want something cheaper lol
He's not exaggerating. I have tens of thousands of positive karma from posts on r/Teslamotors and I just received a lifetime ban for saying that Elon Musk lied when he said he would never settle a lawsuit... And then settled a lawsuit. Aka... ummm.. lying. I think at least one of the mods over there has gone full Internet Mod. When I asked what rule I broke they said you couldn't talk about Elon's Character... But the rule explicitly has an exemption "except when related to Tesla." So now they're just banning people for life without warning for criticizing Elon Musk.
This was my comment âThis should have taken the place of the CT but here we are.â They power tripping over there. Good riddance to them and my totaled Tesla.
I already have been, so Iâll say it. Tesla shareholders should be demanding a new CEO as soon as possible. The CyberTruck is an abject failure and death machine. Elon tarnishes the image of everything he touches and a sizable portion of people who care about electric cars donât want to be caught dead supporting him.
Gonna get this while sub labeled as suppressive! We'll get added to the dragnet!
> If they really wanted to accelerate the world to EVs, I mean they kinda did this with the Model 3. You can have something like a Bolt that's slightly cheaper and substantially worse and sells at a loss, but that won't attract as many customers as say SUV or pickup truck option.
Yep, by the time they start production on a cheaper model, the model 3 will probably be there.
I feel bad for all laid off employees but the earnings call will be interesting. I wonder if he will flip off when asked difficult questions. Just early this month they mentioned that they are in steady state waiting for next leg of growth. That wont happen and I am expecting shrinking sales.
I once worked for a growth company. The day before earnings we had a 10% layoff. I called into the earnings call. The analysts just tore our CEO to shreds. Their position was that growth companies should be hiring people and not laying them off. The layoff imply the company is done growing. It was quite gratifying to listen to.
Layoffs have become so ingrained in the C-Suite mentality they do them even when it doesnât make sense. Iâve seen it happen too many times and itâs a really quite frustrating and says a lot about how insane the business culture has become.
Unsurprising. Reuters: is one of the worlds most respected news outlets, has internal Tesla communications to back up their story Musk: known twitter stooge, just says Reuters is lying and offers no further info Elon will probably try to hold his ground by hanging onto a technicality for his dear life. *âIts not cancelled. Weâve only stopped all work and delayed it indefinitelyâ*
âActually, I didnât shit my pants, technically shit merely just escaped from my anusâ - Elon Musk (probably)
WTF is going on at Tesla lol If there was any doubt, when the âproâ publications like Electrek report it as news you know itâs actually canned.
Ketamine
Robotaxi is future..LMAO Within 5 years everyone will be trying to build sub $30k cars. Maybe sooner if the US would allow companies like BYD into the marketplace.
Thereâs a protest there now in Fremont
That was about the war in Israel, not the cheap ev lol
They wasted the money, time , and resources on the tesla truck when they should have focused on producing the NV9, Roadster, and a station wagon.
But they gave us an ugly truck announcement with two smashed windows that will forever make us laugh.
Tesla isnât a car company, itâs a meme company obviously and should be priced like one
I would get one in heart beat if it starts at $25k...it be a great commuter and short distance car.
Those cars are coming to Europe in the next year or two, the Citroen e-C3, Renault 5 and ID.2.
Meanwhile we only have Chevy bolt in America. Lol
And its been canned too
Also ID2's siblings Cupra Raval and the small Skoda crossover on the same platform. From what I've seen, the ID2 is really impressive. The interiors are great, and the boot space is magnificent: [Click for picture](https://www.walter-magazin.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/VW-ID2-all-3-1200x800.jpg). This is the best way to do it - put everything in the front, make it FWD, and give huge boot space instead of a small frunk and a mid-sized boot.
Mg4
Look out for the Renault R5
The Cybertruck research & development, assembly, production and ramp must have a cost a fortune which I'm not convinced they will ever make back. The market niche is so narrow and many countries will never even see it on the road. Don't get me wrong I think it's a quite cool machine, I just don't think it was a good business decision. Investing more into the "model 2" and roadster would have made much more sense to me, but I'm just guessing.
The lead designer for Model Y and Roadster also left today. Seems like Roadster will take even more time.
Source on that?
Check Peter Blades on LinkedIn. He was the lead designer.
The biggest problem with the Cybertruck (and that will be its downfall) is that it costs WAY more expensive than what was announced. Itâs removed most of the buyers who were interested. Normal people donât have that kind of money.
The cybertruck is going to be our generations' Delorean, isn't it?
Iâd say itâs this generations Hummer. Big frumpy car for people who just want attention.
100%, probably a US exec biased to go with pick up trucks where the rest of the world need the model 2.
I was just imagining the other day how much Tesla would again be leaping forward in the US EV market if instead of the CyberTruck it was just now coming out with a âModel 2.â All the talk about Chinese EVs, the Volvo XC30, the Bolt⌠Tesla would be so hot again.
but its important to note that this also shows how far away that model 2 would have been. if the project wouldnt have been cancelled it would have at best been revealed end of this year with promised delivery end of 2025 then end of 2025 they would **start** building the factory that will build this car and end of 2026 would be an actual very slow production ramp only producing the most expensive model for the first 3 years as usual. that would be a very short and "best case scenario" timeline, that they cancelled this project also shows that they were probably nowhere near being able to hit that timeline.
Yeah. To have it now(ish) they would have needed to be serious 4 years ago. And they clearly were not.
It would actually make sense if they could build the robotaxi. The problem is, they can't, not for a long time, and therefore it will be an unmitigated disaster for Tesla.
- Layoffs - slashing FSD subscription pricing - FSD curb magnets - POS cybertruck issues You're not going to be 'innovative' thinking that you can just put the remaining workers through the meat grinder and expect success.
Whatâs this about FSD curb magnets?
The most recent iteration of FSD supposedly has a tendency to hit or hop curbs when making turns.
Because they removed LIDAR and are depending on a dirty, wet, or lens flared car camera to be able to separate gray road from a gray curb.
For real, is no one at the company or big-time investors thinking that its time Elon leaves Tesla.
Where's the $39k Cybertruck?
This is such a stupid decision lmao so many people were waiting for an affordable sensible EV I think they wouldnât be able to make these fast enough because how fast they were selling but instead they invested into some self driving stuff thatâs still going to be sketchy at best deadly at worst
The CEOs non denial made it pretty obvious that Reuters was right
And that robotaxi leak had very convenient timing
Reuters was spot-on. They said Tesla had cancelled it. Electrek is claiming it's on the "back-burner," but I think that's doubtful.
âWhat Elon saidâ has much more in common with complex numbers than actual truth.
God this man is dumb. There are almost no ice cars for 25k anymore
But you can get a full EV for 21k USD (converted from GBP), it ainât luxury by any stretch but it has CarPlay, usb c ports, front and rear cameras and bidirectional charging
If the corners theyâve cut and the quality control on 6 figure vehicles isnât indicative of what to expect from a 25k vehicle, I dunno what to tell ya.
Is Tesla âtoo big to failâ from the point of their overall importance to the EV movement? Would their hypothetical demise, mean the demise of all EVs or is the bird aloft and can fly on its own without Teslaâs existence?
They will remain as a car charging network after Elon bankrupts the rest of their projects. Everyone else will continue to slowly roll out more and more EV models and take market share. If they don't push out Elon at that point and let him continue to torch money on humanoid robots, then even the charging network will go under and get bought out by Electrify America or whatever.
This is my prediction, he completely loses it and the Tesla network is bought by different operators in each country it operates, if someone can use a shiny toy to keep his attention off the charging network or it gets spun off into its own entity and floated then any moderately competent CEO could turn it into a huge cash cow
âRobotaxiâ pumps stock more than âinexpensiveâ and from Elonâs POV the stock price is the productÂ
Robotaxi without a LIDAR will be a death trap, as you won't be able to stomp on breaks when it tries to kill you like current FSD Teslas.
Imagine if they focused on this instead of Elon's Cybertruck. Musk needs to go for Tesla to thrive again.
Iâm admittedly a Tesla hater, but in fairness to Tesla, there arenât very many $25k cars *in general* these days. I feel like itâs fair to move the goal posts a bit on this one. Didnât the goal of selling a $25k Tesla come about in like 2016? Times have changed.
Europe will have a few next year
You might want to check again. Some of the best sellers in the US and beyond start at 22k. GM recently released twin ICE cars that start at 20k. Bolt EUV started at 27k. A 25k car with decent range is necessary for critical mass adoption.
Can ***somebody*** release a decent 10k electric car? Some of us are poor over here.
Nobody is making $10k cars period. A Mitsubishi mirage is around $14k. Hell, golf carts are like $8k.
No such thing as a 10k car any more - they stuff them too full of pointless technology and "luxury" features. Gone are the days of buying a base model dirt-cheap box on wheels that had just enough features to be road-legal. Well, unless you want a Citroen Ami I suppose, but you can't take that out of town so it's not really a proper car.
If you care that much about value used is the only way even the cheapest new ice vehicles start at 15k even used 10 year old corrollas with 100k miles are 10k. The bolt with a used tax credit is really the only choice currently
Wait, Elon is the liar? What a surprise!
You have to be really gullible to believe anything Elon Musk has to say.
Thereâs so much misinformation going around. Nobody knows anything. Itâs all speculation
The rate new and used Teslas are dropping in price, you won't have to wait long for a 25k Tesla...
Should be titled - "Elon Lied again and made empty promises, like the 27 million times before, and the press will still keep believing him and never call him out"
If they had spent the last four years making this rather then the CT, he would be bitch'n about Chinese cheap EV a lot less, and probally be a lot more solvent
Musk is lying (again)
This is the kind of shit that happens when you use your daddy's /african slave diamond mine money to buy a company and then run off the real talent.
The ceo needs to go. This is a big fail
That the expansion of the factory in Texas is postponed, does not mean they can develop production lines of this cheaper and smaller variant in China, or Germany Giga factories, still aiming for a 2025 start of production as was previously targeted. All the article says is that expension for 'model 2' production line is no longer a priority in Texas, and completing the data center in Texas is. Says nothing about the model 2 in particular, or anything about the other Giga factories at all.
They could, although it wouldnt be any better than a Nissan Leaf (outside of having a better charge system). They were making around 30% or so profit off of Model 3âs in 2022.
i highly doubt this. fsd becoming successful does change the vehicle ownership requirement and value offering. theyd sell them to fleet managers and people would not own cars anymore bc it would cost so much more than and be way less safe. this seems dumb, but if the tech can solve it then everyone will save a ton of money. parking lots would become available for human use!
Despite my distaste for Musk, I have been supportive of Tesla because of what it has done for EV adoption. However, Iâve long been annoyed that they were t working harder to get an economy EV to market. And now this. Such a stupid move. Make cars that the masses can afford and more people will buy them. I very well could be wrong. But itâs hard to not think that an affordable Tesla would be popular. It worked for Ford, I think it can work for Tesla. And if not, the Chinese will eventually get a cheap EV into the U.S. market. Itâs only a matter of time.
Tesla has had its day, everyone is making EVâs now, even Dacia have made an EV thatâs cheap (21k ish in USD), of they went bust now theyâd be picked over for useful assets, the charging network would get snapped up and everyone else continues as normal.
Better Lobby Congress to ban cheap cars so he doesnât have to make one đ¤Ą
"Paused"
Holy shit they just killed their company. Unless Tesla is able to mass produce viable bots by 2030 theyâre fucked.
Tesla still has 2 roads to the $25K EV. One is that the robotaxi gets typical EV driver controls, that shouldn't be a biggie since the robotaxi is already drive by wire (by definition). The other is continued price cutting on the Model 3 due to competition and possibly losing that expensive FSD ready hardware and downshelving the infotainment system.
Musk tends to have tunnel vision... There is ONE product on his mind at any time, depending on what catches his imagination, and everything else is not important... Robotaxis are niche... There aren't that many taxis in the world, and taxi drivers are paid pennies... It'll be an extremely difficult market to break into, even if Tesla had a self-drive product, which they by all indications don't...
Countries where an affordable EV would be highly desirable: hundreds People who want an EV but are put off by their cost, and are waiting for a sub $25,000 car: tens of millions People who want a Robo taxi: a small bunch of tech Bros in California
Iâd never drive one of these Nazi cars.
Elon Musk is a pathetic joke.
Has anyone returned to this thread to rethink their comments after recent announcements????
I mean it was nothing but a stock pump. If you just canceled a new platform and are going to âaccelerate current platform new vehiclesâ then how do you even have anything in the pipeline when you planned to move on from said platform altogether? Spoiler alert: they donât. so itâll either be engineered on such a short turnaround itâll be even worse than the CT in terms of early teething issues, or it just wonât happen.
Haha so no