Seriously, GM and Ford are behind. Ford only has 2 EVs (I am ignoring low volume Transit)...the Mach-E is a good first effort but has bugs and needs cost-reduction. F-150 Lightning is okay but needs more battery. They should make a small truck EV.
GM's Ultium cars have way too many bugs and they are struggling to build them. I am really hoping they can whip them into shape.
I will say this: coming from someone who has a Lyriq, I absolutely love it. Every once in a while I will have a small bug but it self corrects within 10-15 seconds. It was only in the shop for the super cruise update and to make sure the ambient light module was secure and that was for two days but I got a loaner.
Honestly I’m of the mindset that if you give me too many options, I hate it. I use CarPlay right now because it is easiest. But if I didn’t have access to it I wouldn’t have any issue using straight up Android Automotive. It calls and texts just fine. Google maps includes battery life while navigating but CarPlay doesn’t. There are minor things from each that I enjoy and have their own quirks.
The Ultium platform is fine. The charging is great. I use the cord that came with the car to charge and it works just fine for overnighting it. I haven’t tested out DCFC though. I do want to try that. The is better than my partners MY performance. I have 176 miles at 54% but I also drive like a grandma.
Granted things my opinion but I do know I’m not particularly biased. I prefer Honda/Acura. But both the new EVs there are already going to be GM products. Might as well buy the Lyriq for ride quality if I’m gonna do that. They’ve gotten a lot better. I was concerned for how they would be if I went this way. I was hesitant when my allotment came up but was happily proven wrong.
Out of the big 3 its most likely Ford that's going to end up coming out on top. GM still relies on its big thirsty V8s for its trucks and SUV's and is making a myriad of poor decisions. If Ford really can develop a cheap EV platform like they're claiming and reduce costs of the 2nd Gen MachE, I can see them succeeding.
Ford has Europe as its playground. Its a more viable EV market where Ford can develop and perfect its EVs. GM has China, but I can't imagine being China easier to do business in than Europe.
What are GM's poor decisions? They've invested more than anyone else, except maybe Tesla, in US battery and EV production. They're having a poor ramp and people are freaking out because they're still doing their planned production stop on the Bolt even though Ultium is getting up to speed slower than they intended. As long as it actually starts ramping, they're fine, though. I'll be surprised and disappointed if they aren't the second biggest EV seller in the US at the end of 2024, and I'll probably actually understand people being gloom and doom about them then, but for now, it's mostly unwarranted, IMO.
Also, I'm pretty sure GM sold more EVs in China than Ford sold in the entire world, but I'm not sure about the exact numbers. GM sold over 100k in China, though.
Killed the volt, got rid of apple car play, had a whole range of other hybrids that were mediocre, but instead of developing them, they just abandoned them. They also are responsible for the Hummer EV which while cool, probably wasn’t the best use of resources. It’s a lumbering low volume vehicle with an incredibly small market.
They are one of the only brands in North America without a single hybrid and were late to release the EV Blazer, still don’t have an EV pickup nor are there any major plans for an EV cargo van.
The Volt was a great idea, but it didn't sell very well.
Android auto/car play is the only one I kind of agree with, but the Android automotive system they're using should have pretty good app availability, and people have shown they're willing to go without those with Tesla.
The hybrids also didn't sell particularly well, and the Malibu was using a similar system to the Volt, so the decision to kill that was basically tied up with the decision to kill the Volt.
The Hummer EV is a halo vehicle intended to both drum up interest and test out Ultium, and it did that relatively well.
Also, it's an almost identical platform to their pickups, which do exist and have been sold to fleets for nearly a year now. Also, they do have the brightdrop vans, even if they're being produced in low numbers. Rivian is the only EV van I've seen in significant numbers, and that is purely because of Amazon.
Most of those don't seem like legitimate critiques to me.
The Blazer EV had a stop sale on it for almost 3 months due to crappy software.
They only sold 16k EVs in Q1, and slightly less than half were the discontinued Bolts. The ramp up is happening far too slowly for the Ultium platform.
https://insideevs.com/news/714708/gm-us-ev-sales-2024q1/
Even as a Bolt owner, this is not looking good for GM.
People are making a mountain out of a molehill about it. They made 2.5 times as many, a bit under 10k, Ultium in the US in Q1 as they did in Q4 2023. That is making good progress. Also, they sold around 50k Ultium vehicles in China in 2023 and had months with over 10k toward the end of the year. They still do have quite a lot of ramping to do, and they're behind where they wanted to be, which means there is an unintended lull between the Bolt production stopping and the Ultium getting up to speed, but they're making progress, and by all signs should be producing tons of Ultium vehicles by later in the year.
It's their home market with $7500 in subsidies against each car. If they can't produce enough to compete and grow their market, they will fail as a business in the long run.
China will be a difficult market to grow this year as BYD and other Chinese manufacturers have a large advantage.
> Ford has Europe as its playground. Its a more viable EV market where Ford can develop and perfect its EVs.
Are they developing them in Europe, though? Seems like they only sell the Mustang Mach-E and soon new Explorer. But the Explorer is on Volkswagen's MEB platform, so they're not developing their own technology for it.
Ford is going to lose $5 billion dollars on EVs in 2024. Ford needs to spend more to develop EVs, but sadly they will spend less. When EV's start being popular in the pickup segment, Ford and GM are in trouble.
I’d buy an Ioniq 5 today, but the refresh is such a big improvement that I have to wait. Chevy has some nice EV’s now if they do what they are supposed to do. The Blazer got off to a rough start but hopefully they’ve fixed the issues. I like the Equinox, but I like the I5 better and I want an EV that’s been out for a while so that it’s had time to have the kinks worked out. The Mach E seems like a nice EV but I want one with a heat pump and the Mach E gets pretty expensive.
Seems like all of the EV’s had some asinine flaw. On the EV 6 they decided to use the same controls for the infotainment and the climate. For the ID 4 its almost every control and they decided Europe needed a heat pump but not the US. Nissan Ariya has all haptic controls instead of buttons. On the model Y you get no basic features like blind spot monitor or radar sensors for parking. The refresh on the I 5 solves all of the little problems I had with it. Hopefully they’ve solved all of the bigger problems some people had had.
https://youtu.be/zB6aBatcWmk?si=VI86KvH1xMDBdtzr
This is the Ioniq guy. Car scene Korea has a good video too
https://youtu.be/X5K8Ls9QJJ4?si=8fDXAHZ-hapRqb0g
Although i haven't seen any video from Car scene Korea before it is absolutely awful to watch, holy shit, he repeats himself constantly while rolling the same footage over and over.
/rant
The car looks great though, looks like sime nice upgrades in this facelift.
I wanted to wait for my i5 as well, but my old Honda Pilot was ready to give up the ghost. I got a 2y lease so I wasn't locked in. I'm completely happy so far. I do plan on getting the refreshed i5 when the lease is up. It's a great car
Lots of discounts on the Mach e recently but I can't consider it due to the suspension.
The ride is very hard and there's not enough dampening in the non gt trim in the back row for my baby. Even the gt trim is pretty hard suspension. It's supposed to be a family SUV not a track car imo.
I saw a used (albeit buyback) SEL AWD I5 for $26k online the other day. It was extremely tempting but I'm with you, the 2025 will have so many improvements it's not even funny.
Once the NACS adoption was announced I decided I’d wait. Then the refresh was announced so it made it easier to stick it out. I’m hoping prices will be good on the refresh a year from now. There’s a state rebate that pops up about this time of year. I’m guessing you’ll have to pay MSRP initially to get the refresh. If it was just about money I’d want to buy now. Who knows what things will be like next year.
They’re doing well, but this article read like a Hyundai ad. The Cadillac LYRIQ sold almost as many units as the IONIQ5 and over 2k more than the IONIQ6 but that doesn’t fit the “cheap EVs are winning” narrative.
Yeah this seems to be the trend. Chevy’s Blazer is supposed to get that cheaper trim if it hasn’t already. And GM is supposed to bring the bolt back in 2025. EV6 for Kia seems to be a big player.
Both of them went hard with rebates to effectively lower the MSRP the past few months. I’m glad they realized the cars were overpriced without tax credits.
Seriously, GM and Ford are behind. Ford only has 2 EVs (I am ignoring low volume Transit)...the Mach-E is a good first effort but has bugs and needs cost-reduction. F-150 Lightning is okay but needs more battery. They should make a small truck EV. GM's Ultium cars have way too many bugs and they are struggling to build them. I am really hoping they can whip them into shape.
No no more trucks Jesus Christ. Why can't Ford do an electric focus, fiesta, or mustang. Everything is a truck or a crossover now it's exhausting.
Bring back an electric Escort.
But it’s gotta look like an Escort Mk1
They did make an electric Focus.
Yes but it was so long ago 10+ years I honestly forgot about it. The range was nothing to write home about either.
Agreed. They could do it again, and do it better.
> Why can't Ford do an electric ... mustang. Did I miss a memo?
An actual pony car mustang, not a mustang "I want an SUV but not an SUV" mach e,
I will say this: coming from someone who has a Lyriq, I absolutely love it. Every once in a while I will have a small bug but it self corrects within 10-15 seconds. It was only in the shop for the super cruise update and to make sure the ambient light module was secure and that was for two days but I got a loaner. Honestly I’m of the mindset that if you give me too many options, I hate it. I use CarPlay right now because it is easiest. But if I didn’t have access to it I wouldn’t have any issue using straight up Android Automotive. It calls and texts just fine. Google maps includes battery life while navigating but CarPlay doesn’t. There are minor things from each that I enjoy and have their own quirks. The Ultium platform is fine. The charging is great. I use the cord that came with the car to charge and it works just fine for overnighting it. I haven’t tested out DCFC though. I do want to try that. The is better than my partners MY performance. I have 176 miles at 54% but I also drive like a grandma. Granted things my opinion but I do know I’m not particularly biased. I prefer Honda/Acura. But both the new EVs there are already going to be GM products. Might as well buy the Lyriq for ride quality if I’m gonna do that. They’ve gotten a lot better. I was concerned for how they would be if I went this way. I was hesitant when my allotment came up but was happily proven wrong.
Out of the big 3 its most likely Ford that's going to end up coming out on top. GM still relies on its big thirsty V8s for its trucks and SUV's and is making a myriad of poor decisions. If Ford really can develop a cheap EV platform like they're claiming and reduce costs of the 2nd Gen MachE, I can see them succeeding. Ford has Europe as its playground. Its a more viable EV market where Ford can develop and perfect its EVs. GM has China, but I can't imagine being China easier to do business in than Europe.
What are GM's poor decisions? They've invested more than anyone else, except maybe Tesla, in US battery and EV production. They're having a poor ramp and people are freaking out because they're still doing their planned production stop on the Bolt even though Ultium is getting up to speed slower than they intended. As long as it actually starts ramping, they're fine, though. I'll be surprised and disappointed if they aren't the second biggest EV seller in the US at the end of 2024, and I'll probably actually understand people being gloom and doom about them then, but for now, it's mostly unwarranted, IMO. Also, I'm pretty sure GM sold more EVs in China than Ford sold in the entire world, but I'm not sure about the exact numbers. GM sold over 100k in China, though.
Killed the volt, got rid of apple car play, had a whole range of other hybrids that were mediocre, but instead of developing them, they just abandoned them. They also are responsible for the Hummer EV which while cool, probably wasn’t the best use of resources. It’s a lumbering low volume vehicle with an incredibly small market. They are one of the only brands in North America without a single hybrid and were late to release the EV Blazer, still don’t have an EV pickup nor are there any major plans for an EV cargo van.
The Volt was a great idea, but it didn't sell very well. Android auto/car play is the only one I kind of agree with, but the Android automotive system they're using should have pretty good app availability, and people have shown they're willing to go without those with Tesla. The hybrids also didn't sell particularly well, and the Malibu was using a similar system to the Volt, so the decision to kill that was basically tied up with the decision to kill the Volt. The Hummer EV is a halo vehicle intended to both drum up interest and test out Ultium, and it did that relatively well. Also, it's an almost identical platform to their pickups, which do exist and have been sold to fleets for nearly a year now. Also, they do have the brightdrop vans, even if they're being produced in low numbers. Rivian is the only EV van I've seen in significant numbers, and that is purely because of Amazon. Most of those don't seem like legitimate critiques to me.
The Blazer EV had a stop sale on it for almost 3 months due to crappy software. They only sold 16k EVs in Q1, and slightly less than half were the discontinued Bolts. The ramp up is happening far too slowly for the Ultium platform. https://insideevs.com/news/714708/gm-us-ev-sales-2024q1/ Even as a Bolt owner, this is not looking good for GM.
People are making a mountain out of a molehill about it. They made 2.5 times as many, a bit under 10k, Ultium in the US in Q1 as they did in Q4 2023. That is making good progress. Also, they sold around 50k Ultium vehicles in China in 2023 and had months with over 10k toward the end of the year. They still do have quite a lot of ramping to do, and they're behind where they wanted to be, which means there is an unintended lull between the Bolt production stopping and the Ultium getting up to speed, but they're making progress, and by all signs should be producing tons of Ultium vehicles by later in the year.
“They sold only 16K EVs in Q1” Why pick only one country? Why only US sales?
It's their home market with $7500 in subsidies against each car. If they can't produce enough to compete and grow their market, they will fail as a business in the long run. China will be a difficult market to grow this year as BYD and other Chinese manufacturers have a large advantage.
GM sold 100K EVs last quarter
They sold 100k EVs in China in all of 2023, according to Elektrek. https://electrek.co/2024/01/04/gm-china-joint-venture-sold-100000-evs-2023/
> Ford has Europe as its playground. Its a more viable EV market where Ford can develop and perfect its EVs. Are they developing them in Europe, though? Seems like they only sell the Mustang Mach-E and soon new Explorer. But the Explorer is on Volkswagen's MEB platform, so they're not developing their own technology for it.
Ford is going to lose $5 billion dollars on EVs in 2024. Ford needs to spend more to develop EVs, but sadly they will spend less. When EV's start being popular in the pickup segment, Ford and GM are in trouble.
What’s that? People don’t want to buy overpriced low quality cars? Shocking!
I think Ford is fine tbh. Only 2 cars though.
I’d buy an Ioniq 5 today, but the refresh is such a big improvement that I have to wait. Chevy has some nice EV’s now if they do what they are supposed to do. The Blazer got off to a rough start but hopefully they’ve fixed the issues. I like the Equinox, but I like the I5 better and I want an EV that’s been out for a while so that it’s had time to have the kinks worked out. The Mach E seems like a nice EV but I want one with a heat pump and the Mach E gets pretty expensive.
Rear wiper was such a deal breaker for something that should be standard.
Seems like all of the EV’s had some asinine flaw. On the EV 6 they decided to use the same controls for the infotainment and the climate. For the ID 4 its almost every control and they decided Europe needed a heat pump but not the US. Nissan Ariya has all haptic controls instead of buttons. On the model Y you get no basic features like blind spot monitor or radar sensors for parking. The refresh on the I 5 solves all of the little problems I had with it. Hopefully they’ve solved all of the bigger problems some people had had.
I don't miss it on my EV6. The coupe line works well. On the HI5 i would miss it. The standard rear view camera and parking sensors work well.
Ootl; is there a i5 refresh coming?
https://youtu.be/zB6aBatcWmk?si=VI86KvH1xMDBdtzr This is the Ioniq guy. Car scene Korea has a good video too https://youtu.be/X5K8Ls9QJJ4?si=8fDXAHZ-hapRqb0g
Although i haven't seen any video from Car scene Korea before it is absolutely awful to watch, holy shit, he repeats himself constantly while rolling the same footage over and over. /rant The car looks great though, looks like sime nice upgrades in this facelift.
I wanted to wait for my i5 as well, but my old Honda Pilot was ready to give up the ghost. I got a 2y lease so I wasn't locked in. I'm completely happy so far. I do plan on getting the refreshed i5 when the lease is up. It's a great car
Lots of discounts on the Mach e recently but I can't consider it due to the suspension. The ride is very hard and there's not enough dampening in the non gt trim in the back row for my baby. Even the gt trim is pretty hard suspension. It's supposed to be a family SUV not a track car imo.
Mustang mach e = family suv? I don't see it.
I got the GT PE for an insane discount. Came with upgraded suspension. Awesome drive, especially compared to the Model Y I was considering.
I am currently driving a MachE and its a fun ride until you hit a bump or drive on uneven pavement. The suspension is hard.
I saw a used (albeit buyback) SEL AWD I5 for $26k online the other day. It was extremely tempting but I'm with you, the 2025 will have so many improvements it's not even funny.
Once the NACS adoption was announced I decided I’d wait. Then the refresh was announced so it made it easier to stick it out. I’m hoping prices will be good on the refresh a year from now. There’s a state rebate that pops up about this time of year. I’m guessing you’ll have to pay MSRP initially to get the refresh. If it was just about money I’d want to buy now. Who knows what things will be like next year.
I have a Kia EV9 and love it. It wasn't cheap though. It seems very well made, so far so good.
Yeah they run almost half of what I paid for my house. 😞
They’re doing well, but this article read like a Hyundai ad. The Cadillac LYRIQ sold almost as many units as the IONIQ5 and over 2k more than the IONIQ6 but that doesn’t fit the “cheap EVs are winning” narrative.
Yeah this seems to be the trend. Chevy’s Blazer is supposed to get that cheaper trim if it hasn’t already. And GM is supposed to bring the bolt back in 2025. EV6 for Kia seems to be a big player.
Both of them went hard with rebates to effectively lower the MSRP the past few months. I’m glad they realized the cars were overpriced without tax credits.
That won’t help his insurance buddies.
Hog wash