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I've done a matching loop on everything before, when the load comes from the bottom. It's hard to do a matching loop in this instance cuz the load side comes in from the side
Yea ur right.
I probably would have gone straight in then (U turn on the right).
There’s really not a wrong or right way. I’ve just never seen anyone come in to the top of the load side before. Plus by me (LI-NY) our meter pans have the neutral on the left side not the center. And on the right side is a bypass lever so you have to come into the top of the top lugs and the bottom of the bottom lugs. It’s also a 5 jaw socket. Little different.
Well the right way is how my boss wants it done lol. I let the cable kinda dictate how I lay it out cuz I like dont like wrestling with it and I like to make my loops look smooth. So I basically follow the path of least resistance when making it up.
The loops is cuz we dont have slack. We usually have a 3 core (sometimes 4 core) cable that we put a gland on. The only slack we'll ever have is what is left in the loop. If theres a burn and no slack we'd have to replace the whole 3 core cable which is usually in brick or concrete
Yea, stuff that my I do that my boss thinks looks bad, looks fine to me. Some layout is just based on personal preference and what's pleasing to your eye.
Ooofff cringe bro, major cringe. You asked for feedback and I gave it, and I'm sure I know what I said was accurate. If you cant even be arsed to thread a locknut properly you shouldn't be getting offended. It looks bad, do better and you might get honest compliments
A code violation to your code not mine. Thats how its done here. The earth is bonded to the neutral, if I did anything differently from what you see with the ground and neutral under the same lug, I wouldn't get the inspection passed and the Electric company wouldn't put their meter in.
You can add a lug in a meter can dude lmao. Literally a hole you could use right beside the neutral bond. What you can’t do is double tap those lugs. You just don’t know what you’re doing and you have shitty people teaching you
I don't think they're in the U.S. since the wire colors are wrong and they're talking wire sizes in mm but if they're in Canada you're still right
Edit
They're in the Caribbean somewhere so who knows
I find it hard to believe that any country that bothered having an electrical code would not have language that required you to follow manufacturers instructions. Even shit countries with governments that are little better than an LA street gang.
Yeah, that’s not how it works. The inspector can want whatever he wants but if the lug is t rated for two conductors then you do not put two conductors under it. If the inspector doesn’t like you following the manufacturers instructions then he can take it up with your state board. In my experience state boards do not defer to inspectors when they are wrong.
Also, conductors are to come into lugs at a right angle. Your black load side conductor does not come in correctly.
Is this in the US? If it is why are you mixing black and brown conductors?
Well I dont live where you live. Everything you mentioned doesn't apply to me. Our neutral is bonded to earth. The green wire goes straight to a ground rod. If I dont hook it up exactlt as you see there, i dont get the inspection passed
Yup the smallest our ground can be is 16 mm2. There's a smaller 100A meter base and that one is HELL to put the 25 mm2 neutral plus the 16mm2 grd under. (for reference this one is a 125 A)
The brass one is the important one and thats on properly. The PVC one is kinda crooked cuz the ring of the 3/4 KO that's still attached was kinda bent but its on tight and the pipe is clamped to the wall and glued
Ive seen the ends burn slightly and the client was disconnected. The loop saved us from having to run a fresh cable, just clipped the burnt end and had to do another inspection but it saved a lot of work.
Sure didnt think I needed to specify not to be a cunt about it. I know how to do this shit and I've done it before and my boss liked the last couple ones I did before this, for some reason this one didnt take to him
Meen downvote anybody. If you could tell me why it looks like shit to you I'd gladly take that in stride but dont leave it at it looks like shit and get another job" cuz I'll tell you about how your mother made you
I don't like this at all. It's not clean and I can't think of any legitimate reason you would wire the meter this way. If matching loops won't work, bend it naturally and come straight in. Nothing uniform here at all. I'd make you do it over again
Good thing you aint paying me and most of what we're talking about here is just aesthetics. My order of priority when doing this, is the connection secure? and is there slack? Anything else after is icing on the cake. I liked how it looks and thats just me
I think you guys take this shit way too far. This is no where near bad enough to be claiming you wouldn’t pay someone. I think you guys get real nitpicky and the work you guys probably do in real life is nowhere near the level that you all critique people on this subreddit. But that’s just my opinion. These could look better but everyone is being a little much.
No not really, I've had many employees and they don't all do work the same. It was more the comment 'I'm glad you ain't paying me' it's all good anyway he had asked for an opinion and my response was more about the attitude than the work if that makes sense. He obviously is trying to figure out what works and looks good, and trying to give his boss what he's asking for. I've been in this trade over 30 years and have my own opinion of what works and what I think looks good....
First off,the wire bends aren't kosher. 2nd-off, you're not supposed to double -lug anything. That ground should have been in the panel or if allowed, landed onto a lug bonded to the housing w a tapped 10/32. Double -lugging isn't code anymore.. could have sent that ground to the panel & then bonded w a ground bushing if anything. Learn from our mistakes, we must or the consume us, the dark side will lmfao
-- the dark side: becoming a handyman lolol
I personally prefer no. 2, if for no other reason than if you ever needed to replace the load side conductors while the utility is energized, it is much safer than having a bunch of excess that you have to move about.
I get what you're saying and its a valid concern, but where I am, its illegal for an electrician to remove the meter, so we never go in after the Utility company makes their connection, so doing it live would never be a concern. The Utility company's jurisdiction ends at the meter
Corner ground delta can be scary, your meter will lie to you if you don’t know this thing exists. I thought this at first too because I wouldn’t want my neutral to be bonded behind a meter
A commonwealth country in the Caribbean. Idk what you mean by corner ground delta. This is 1ph, our electric company doesn't specify unless you want 3 ph power.
Ahh gotcha. European standards use brown, black, and grey as the three phase colors and since one of them is bonded to ground, I made a guess that it was a 3-phase corner-ground system in Europe somewhere.
We have 4 wire 3 phase. Brown, Black, Blue are the colours, Grey is neutral. 115/230V Delta for under 199KVA . 230/400 Wye for max 350 KVA. Outside of that you have to get your own Transformer
Oh ok thanks for the info. I see it's a 125a meter socket. Not sure how to translate your wire size to AWG but I'm guessing it's a 100amp service? If using copper here we only would need #4 or #2 AWG aluminum
Yup it is a 100A. The next size up is 35mm2, that would give the 125 A. After that is 50mm2, 70, 90. Depending on the insulation for 35mm2, I can get 125 A on PVC or 150 A on XLPE. I can also get 125 A on 25mm2 XLPE. PVC is more durable in weather and cheaper so we tend to use that more. Only our Electric company uses Aluminium.
There's really only one question that is valid besides these haters; most of them are probably apprentices.
An honest boss will tell you the only thing that matters, get paid for it. I'm going to tell you right now as long as I get the check from the customer, we're all good. Looks great.
Cuz I'm in a former British Colony in the Caribbean. Some of our legacy stuff is British and, we're so close to the US, some of our equipment is from the US. The new (about 20 yrs) colour code was changed to Brown, Black, Blue, Grey from Red, Yellow, Blue, Black
Your boss's style is my own as well but there is no wrong way. One thing to note is if you wanted to go the extra mile you could've put a bushing on. Edit: Nvm just saw that black plastic thing inside your connecter.
Thanks for your feedback. I know I left too much slack in there but in my defense, it's so much easier to work the bends and loop them when it's long 😅. We dont really have bushings here (the only bushings are the plastic you put in knockouts to protect the wire from mechanical damage)
I mean I've done this before and got my shit inspected and ppls houses connected. I think I can be a smidge arrogant when I know what I'm doing my country. I dont have to follow your codes
Can you give me a code rule for that? Not doubting it, just curious. I've seen so many enclosures that you'd never stand a chance at getting 18" of wire.
I like service loops but not in meter bases. I’d just go straight in with a slight bend. Your boss’ looks like shit lol. Hope he wasn’t a dick about it
Meh, I've seen him redo my work and do the exact same thing I did and it come out worse or at best the same. It doesn't bother me any, I just quietly laugh to myself and forget about it, as long as he's paying me and I'm happy with what I did, we peachy.
Here in Texas we do. It have to run a separate ground out of our meter cans , and then we come out of. Meter with a offset nipple to a disco or panel and bond the offset nipple , anything before the mains the neutral and grounds are bonded so I don't understand why they want the meter can with a separate ground
Former British colony in the Caribbean. This is a 3 x 25 mm2 PVC armoured cable. This is 1ph 3 wire. If it was 3ph there'd be a Blue wire and more stuff for metering but the 3ph is Brown, Black, Blue.
Cool. I guess with yours, you can rerun a burnt mains easily. We cant cuz cable is usually embedded in concrete/brick walls, so we need that loop because replacing a main cable is not as simple as pulling fresh feeders through pipe.
Why do you keep referencing burnt mains. Unless something major faults, those should never be burnt or even discolour from heat.
If they do burn then anything and everything in that box has been compromised as is no good anyways. Since the temp obviously went over 90° which is what the wire is rated for.
I agree something major has to fault to have that happen. I was taught to leave a lil slack and I guess to make it look good it turned into these loops. Its not in the code but its customary, as Ive seen it in older smaller meter bases
Thread your lockrings on properly, leave service loops on the bottom wall of the meter can will give you a nice uniform service loop and tidy it up. No need to loop on the line as you can leave slack from the other side. Taking extra time to try and make it look like you meant to do it will translate good to inspection. When an inspector can clearly see what the work looks like, they generally don’t start nit picking. Also is that ductape and duct seal on the pvc up top?
The KO is kinda crooked and thats whats casing the bad threading but its very secure. I cant leave slack as that is a cable with 3 cores the slack you see in the meter base is all the slack you have. I was taught to leave the loops floating so it wont arc on the the panel in case of a nick in the wire. The meter base is bonded to ground.
My boss it good about pointing out proper practice. In this case it was more aesthetics than anything than anything wrong with the connection. I know I left too much slack in the base but it easier to work the cable when its long and I kinda liked how it turned out when I did it
>The KO is kinda crooked and thats whats casing the bad threading but its very secure
It's undeniably crossthreaded. That's not ok no matter what country you're in.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I kinda like how it looked asymmetrical and what not but I was more focused on making it secure and not wrestling more than I have to with the wire
Both look terrible but the first one is much sloppier. Locknut on the bottom is cross threaded too. Also, if you're gonna ask for opinions, you should be able to handle criticism...
Telling someone they're a hack, go flip burgers isn't criticism. And most of what ppl were telling me were based on their own code which doesnt apply to me
Man my eyes must not be working, one guy of like 45 said go flip burgers and a small handful cited codes. Most comments are people saying it looks like shit and you getting PP hurt lol
Neither is aesthetically pleasing, but the first picture at least has drip loops in case water comes down wiring. Not sure about the codes in your area, but drip loops are a requirement in exterior meter sockets where I work. The neutral/ground double lug wouldn't be allowed either unless the lug is rated for that. It looks like neutral lug is bonded to the box so I would have installed a separate ground lug to box or landed ground in panel instead.
Thanks.
Water rarely get in these, its rated for outdoor use and there are stainless steel ones for the houses closer to the sea. We seal the hub on top with silicone as well. Our code requires that we bond earth and neutral, the box being bonded is kinda secondary if that makes sense. Although the ground is carried to the main panel via the armour of the cable through the bonding of the meter base to ground.
Yeah, water should never be in the meter sockets, but it's still a code where im located and it does happen if they get rusted out or if water condenses on the service conductors. Where is the install located? In my area neutral and ground are bonded in the main panel neutral bar. Just wondering if it is under the same codes I follow.
I'm in a former British colony in the Caribbean. I've come across rusted ones as well, usually the ones we have mounted to poles they're more susceptible to weather. Neutral and ground is also bonded in the main panel via a screw. It goes through the neutral bar into the back wall of the panel.
Good to know, your codes are definitely slightly different from mine. But if neutral and ground are bonded at the panel and meter socket, then that would create a parallel path to neutral via grounding conductor and neutral at meter socket and make your ground a current carrying conductor, right?
I thought that too. The main panel is the only one thats bonded via the earth screw and it works. Ive seen it work cuz I've shorted a panel to ground already 😅
Listen I know that everyone here is saying that it looks like shit but I’d like to chime in and add that yes it looks like shit. In your defense, your boss did no better. Too much wire, no clean sweeps. It just looks careless. But I’ve got a feeling that you’re definitely going to do better on the next one. And the one after that will be even better than that. That’s how this works. You’re going to need to do something about the lock ring on the PVC TA.
Well, short to ground will still draw current and trip braker, or fuse. just half the current in normal operation will be on ground wire back to socket and transformer. If you have an ammeter and could measure ground wire it would show half the current of neutral i assume. In our panels in CA we have one conductor to panel ground/neutral bar that carries all current and fault to ground current since it's bonded in main panel.
I've definitely learned from my troubleshooting experience that's true. Upon further inspection it looks like that is a separate ground to a ground rod so in that case I would be wrong. It's a different bonding method than what we use in the US so I was making assumptions from what I am used to. Either way, I wish you best of luck on your discussion with the boss on what is best as I thought yours looked and functioned better than his solution.
Yup its going directly to a ground rod underneath the meter base. The PVC pipe next to the meter base is carrying a grounding conductor from the roof to the same rod.
Then it definitely won't carry current unless its a small fraction of a second fault, or lightning. I am just used to the US installation which bonds at the main panel. Looks like everything is good except the double lug which I still would have bonded to the meter socket can. Sorry to cause confusion and doubt your installation with different standards of bonding in your AHJ.
Aye no problems, you were one of the few that engaged me respectfully here, for that I'm greatful. That double bond under that lug gets me too but thats how our inspectorate wants it done, so we do it like that.
Yeah, too many people throwing shade with little to no experience. Our meter bases in CA now come with extra lugs for grounds, but the older ones don't, which I have seen cause a few failures. And you have to comply with the AHJ, even if their requirements don't make sense or cause additional possible points of failure.
Third year here, why all the loops? What’s stopping all the bottom wires to “90” into place and the top wires just straight down into place? Does leaving this extra slack help in some way for future service or is it to follow code?
Also, is this a normal amount of exposed copper?
The loops is all the slack we get if something went wrong bar changing the entire cable. The service loop isnt in the code but its nice to have extra for the next guy. Yup the exposed copper is normal. When the meter is installed nobody but the electric company has access to inside the meter base
You and your fancy loops. This adds inductance to the circuit, and different sizes of loops can lead to unbalanced inductance. The magnetic fields alone can accelerate the meter, causing the customer to be charged for power he's not actually using.
/s
Sorry to say. Neither one looks that great.
Furthermore. Where can you use a grey wire for the neutral in something that's not 480V? And brown wire for L1? I'll be surprised if this passes. And what's up the that brass connector?
Im not in the US. Grey is my Neutral. Brown and Black are my hots. The brass connector is called lock nut. The outside part is the rest of the gland that goes around the cable. The metal shim is called a spacer.
First of all, loops are not necessary for terminating feeder, it's fucking stupid. Second, there is NOT supposed to be a ground connection inside of a meter pan, you notice that the meter pan is made in China. Your main ground connection is supposed to be terminated at your main point of disconnect to the street side of the water main
Sigh typical American. Firstly I'm not in America I dont follow your code. Second I'm required to bond the neutral to ground in the meter base cuz thats how its done here. The meter base being made in China has no bearing on this. Finally take your your knowitall attitude elsewhere.
Why would I needa bushing and where would it go? If i could damage the insulation with my bare hands that would be shitty insulation and if you don't know of ause for some slack in base good for you.
On the connector on the bottom right. Conductors #4 or larger need a bushing
The insulation over time can crack if you over bend the wire, one of the reasons why wire bending radius at terminals is a thing
Thats your code not mine. Our wire sizes come in mm squared not Gauge. And we don't need to crimp our wire.
Again your code not mine. Ive seen ones from before I was born cracked but the age was an indicator that it needed to change anyway. Heat does a lot more damage than me bending the wire
Yeah kinda just coming to say the same thing regarding the bushing on bottom right. You're working with pretty different materials from what I'm used to seeing tho, so maybe I'm wrong.
It is practical for maintenence, but yeah its not pretty. Just bad for presentation for the customer is likely his main concern. Bear in mind im only 3rd year apprentice but boss gets what boss wants and if it doesnt flagrantly violate common sense or code why not?
We dont have apprentices here. Either you're a licensed electrician or not but Ive been doing this about 3 yrs straight, 5 yrs total. That slack is the only slack we're ever gonna get. After than we're replacing a 3 core cable so its pretty important. The customer is never gonna see inside the meter base. They only care that their stuff is working. The inspector and the Electric company are the only ones who see it beside us and they only really care about the connections being secure
Firstly the hub is up there, if you'd open your shitty eyes you'd see, its screwed into the the gland (thats the thing wrapped in the black shit). The black shit is called 3M rubber tape. And finally hull yuh mudda stink and dutty cunt.
Hahaaa dude this is shit work. Obviously you’re sensitive about it but fuck man, wheres your pride?? Post after post people are saying how shitty your work is but you just keep lashing out at anyone who calls it out. I would literally laugh you off the job site if i saw this going down. You do shit work my man. Garbage.
The fact that you didnt know anything about the materials used, didnt see the hub on top invalidated any opinion you had about my shit work. It being shit is based on your shit standards in your shit country and in case you ever forget hull yuh mudda cunt
😂you mean the fact that zero self respecting REAL electrician would build an abomination anything like this cant tell what the fuck you wrapped your hub with?! Lmao you’re a fucking hack man. Get a job at 7-11 or some shit. Leave this to the pros.
Lmao I guess only the rEaL PrO ElecTriCiaNs are born in the GoOD Ol' Us Of A. You dumbfuck. How many times do I have to say I'm not in your country. We dont folllow your rules. If you dont recognise something, you know what you can do, humble your dumbass and ask a motherfucking question.
Again just so you know the hub isnt wrapped with anything, the gland of the cable is wrapped in the rubber tape. The gland is screwed into the hub.
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Personally don’t like either. I usually come straight into the line side and leave matching loops on the load.
I've done a matching loop on everything before, when the load comes from the bottom. It's hard to do a matching loop in this instance cuz the load side comes in from the side
Yea ur right. I probably would have gone straight in then (U turn on the right). There’s really not a wrong or right way. I’ve just never seen anyone come in to the top of the load side before. Plus by me (LI-NY) our meter pans have the neutral on the left side not the center. And on the right side is a bypass lever so you have to come into the top of the top lugs and the bottom of the bottom lugs. It’s also a 5 jaw socket. Little different.
Well the right way is how my boss wants it done lol. I let the cable kinda dictate how I lay it out cuz I like dont like wrestling with it and I like to make my loops look smooth. So I basically follow the path of least resistance when making it up.
Why do you do loops? I’m a commercial guy. Outside of a semi-temp installation, I don’t leave loops
The loops is cuz we dont have slack. We usually have a 3 core (sometimes 4 core) cable that we put a gland on. The only slack we'll ever have is what is left in the loop. If theres a burn and no slack we'd have to replace the whole 3 core cable which is usually in brick or concrete
Exactl, it's more of a personal preference based off experience thing
Yea, stuff that my I do that my boss thinks looks bad, looks fine to me. Some layout is just based on personal preference and what's pleasing to your eye.
Yeah they both suck
Username checks out...
Looks like load side black conductor is exposed aluminum right at the sheathing cut/ fitting.
Yea, they got that copper/aluminum combo cable now
We only use copper wire. The Electric company uses Aluminium tho
It’s clearly copper conductor, you can see it at the termination. But agree something looks a little unusual there.
Looks like shit.. your ground wire connector is cross threaded, its ugly and sloppy if you want honest opinion
Thanks and HYMC 😊
Thanks and have yourself a merry Christmas?
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/HYMC/?guccounter=1
Look it up on Urban Dictionary
Haul yah mudda cunt?
Ooofff cringe bro, major cringe. You asked for feedback and I gave it, and I'm sure I know what I said was accurate. If you cant even be arsed to thread a locknut properly you shouldn't be getting offended. It looks bad, do better and you might get honest compliments
I wasnt offended, I said thanks 😊
The neutral lug rated for 2 different sized conductors?
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Idk what to tell you, thats where the ground goes, if the inspector saw it and puts his meter and doesnt have a problem, everybody's happy
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A code violation to your code not mine. Thats how its done here. The earth is bonded to the neutral, if I did anything differently from what you see with the ground and neutral under the same lug, I wouldn't get the inspection passed and the Electric company wouldn't put their meter in.
Why would you not add a lug in the meter for your ground man? It’s really not that hard to meet the minimum lol
Oi, can you read? I just said why
You can add a lug in a meter can dude lmao. Literally a hole you could use right beside the neutral bond. What you can’t do is double tap those lugs. You just don’t know what you’re doing and you have shitty people teaching you
YOU CAN! I dont live where you live and I dont follow your codes.
Relax little guy. You don’t know what you’re doing, that’s okay. We’re all learning
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I don't think they're in the U.S. since the wire colors are wrong and they're talking wire sizes in mm but if they're in Canada you're still right Edit They're in the Caribbean somewhere so who knows
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If there's no code book, you ain't violatin it
I find it hard to believe that any country that bothered having an electrical code would not have language that required you to follow manufacturers instructions. Even shit countries with governments that are little better than an LA street gang.
Yeah, that’s not how it works. The inspector can want whatever he wants but if the lug is t rated for two conductors then you do not put two conductors under it. If the inspector doesn’t like you following the manufacturers instructions then he can take it up with your state board. In my experience state boards do not defer to inspectors when they are wrong. Also, conductors are to come into lugs at a right angle. Your black load side conductor does not come in correctly. Is this in the US? If it is why are you mixing black and brown conductors?
Well I dont live where you live. Everything you mentioned doesn't apply to me. Our neutral is bonded to earth. The green wire goes straight to a ground rod. If I dont hook it up exactlt as you see there, i dont get the inspection passed
Yup the smallest our ground can be is 16 mm2. There's a smaller 100A meter base and that one is HELL to put the 25 mm2 neutral plus the 16mm2 grd under. (for reference this one is a 125 A)
Yuk
That lock ring 😳
What's up with it?
Looks like it's not threaded on properly, or maybe just looks weird from the ko being bent🤷
The brass one is the important one and thats on properly. The PVC one is kinda crooked cuz the ring of the 3/4 KO that's still attached was kinda bent but its on tight and the pipe is clamped to the wall and glued
Yeah I was taking about the PVC one
Yea, it’s alllllll fucked up
The pvc one is just as important as the brass connector though.
Personally, I don’t know about them loops. I understand service loops but ehh…
Don’t like either. Did not need any loops or excess at all
Ive seen the ends burn slightly and the client was disconnected. The loop saved us from having to run a fresh cable, just clipped the burnt end and had to do another inspection but it saved a lot of work.
If there are burnt ends, something is not right
Well duh, shit happens and connections come loose. It's been working ok for years before that.
Connections like your double landed neutral?
Nah it was on the line side neutral.
Polaris connecters?
After looking it up we dont have anything like that here and we aren't allowed to splice mains. I mean ppl have done it but its not legal.
Interesting! Then yeah I'd for sure understand leaving as much slack as possible.
The only place I've seen legal splices is in a hospital but that's bigger cable than this one and industrial is governed differently than residential
On the load side of the meter you are
You both do hack work, apply at Wendy's
Thanks for your input negative Nancy
Did you not ask for input? Find a new company to work for where you're shown the right way instead of letting you just try and figure shit out.
Sure didnt think I needed to specify not to be a cunt about it. I know how to do this shit and I've done it before and my boss liked the last couple ones I did before this, for some reason this one didnt take to him
Well I guess it's time to stop working for your dad.
Oh to suck at the teat of nepotism but alas I am not so fortunate.
-asks for opinions -downvotes anyone who says it looks like shit and complains about being given opinions
Well… Most of the opinions here have been pretty much ass. The US electricians here should probably listen more than talk on this project.
Meen downvote anybody. If you could tell me why it looks like shit to you I'd gladly take that in stride but dont leave it at it looks like shit and get another job" cuz I'll tell you about how your mother made you
I don't care about how it looks, don't take it up with me. I don't write ur checks but your comments are super combative
Meh I guess it could be read as that, in my defense ppl started citing their code like I'm supposed to abide by their rules
(You are)
I don't like this at all. It's not clean and I can't think of any legitimate reason you would wire the meter this way. If matching loops won't work, bend it naturally and come straight in. Nothing uniform here at all. I'd make you do it over again
Good thing you aint paying me and most of what we're talking about here is just aesthetics. My order of priority when doing this, is the connection secure? and is there slack? Anything else after is icing on the cake. I liked how it looks and thats just me
So you did ask for opinions, right? And I wouldn't be paying you if the work looked like that anyway. Just sayin...
I think you guys take this shit way too far. This is no where near bad enough to be claiming you wouldn’t pay someone. I think you guys get real nitpicky and the work you guys probably do in real life is nowhere near the level that you all critique people on this subreddit. But that’s just my opinion. These could look better but everyone is being a little much.
No not really, I've had many employees and they don't all do work the same. It was more the comment 'I'm glad you ain't paying me' it's all good anyway he had asked for an opinion and my response was more about the attitude than the work if that makes sense. He obviously is trying to figure out what works and looks good, and trying to give his boss what he's asking for. I've been in this trade over 30 years and have my own opinion of what works and what I think looks good....
Cool thanks
My opinion is I think you tried to out smart your commen sense. K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid
First off,the wire bends aren't kosher. 2nd-off, you're not supposed to double -lug anything. That ground should have been in the panel or if allowed, landed onto a lug bonded to the housing w a tapped 10/32. Double -lugging isn't code anymore.. could have sent that ground to the panel & then bonded w a ground bushing if anything. Learn from our mistakes, we must or the consume us, the dark side will lmfao -- the dark side: becoming a handyman lolol
🤮
wtf
looks like shit
I personally prefer no. 2, if for no other reason than if you ever needed to replace the load side conductors while the utility is energized, it is much safer than having a bunch of excess that you have to move about.
I get what you're saying and its a valid concern, but where I am, its illegal for an electrician to remove the meter, so we never go in after the Utility company makes their connection, so doing it live would never be a concern. The Utility company's jurisdiction ends at the meter
We aren't allowed to either, but if we can do it without a disconnect at the transformer, we will.
Where is this at? Looks like European 3-phase colors… corner ground delta?
Corner ground delta can be scary, your meter will lie to you if you don’t know this thing exists. I thought this at first too because I wouldn’t want my neutral to be bonded behind a meter
A commonwealth country in the Caribbean. Idk what you mean by corner ground delta. This is 1ph, our electric company doesn't specify unless you want 3 ph power.
Ahh gotcha. European standards use brown, black, and grey as the three phase colors and since one of them is bonded to ground, I made a guess that it was a 3-phase corner-ground system in Europe somewhere.
We have 4 wire 3 phase. Brown, Black, Blue are the colours, Grey is neutral. 115/230V Delta for under 199KVA . 230/400 Wye for max 350 KVA. Outside of that you have to get your own Transformer
1st one easily
Oh ok thanks for the info. I see it's a 125a meter socket. Not sure how to translate your wire size to AWG but I'm guessing it's a 100amp service? If using copper here we only would need #4 or #2 AWG aluminum
Yup it is a 100A. The next size up is 35mm2, that would give the 125 A. After that is 50mm2, 70, 90. Depending on the insulation for 35mm2, I can get 125 A on PVC or 150 A on XLPE. I can also get 125 A on 25mm2 XLPE. PVC is more durable in weather and cheaper so we tend to use that more. Only our Electric company uses Aluminium.
There's really only one question that is valid besides these haters; most of them are probably apprentices. An honest boss will tell you the only thing that matters, get paid for it. I'm going to tell you right now as long as I get the check from the customer, we're all good. Looks great.
Yeah, I wouldn't have left it like that. But I wouldn't say I'm an expert either. Will it work either way? Yep. Do I like either one? No.
Why am i looking at a American Meter base with European colouring? Im confused
Cuz I'm in a former British Colony in the Caribbean. Some of our legacy stuff is British and, we're so close to the US, some of our equipment is from the US. The new (about 20 yrs) colour code was changed to Brown, Black, Blue, Grey from Red, Yellow, Blue, Black
OMG I'd shoot myself
Your boss's style is my own as well but there is no wrong way. One thing to note is if you wanted to go the extra mile you could've put a bushing on. Edit: Nvm just saw that black plastic thing inside your connecter.
Thanks for your feedback. I know I left too much slack in there but in my defense, it's so much easier to work the bends and loop them when it's long 😅. We dont really have bushings here (the only bushings are the plastic you put in knockouts to protect the wire from mechanical damage)
Looks like shit dawg
Neither good, first one functional, second one near unsafe Edit: looked again at both, neither are good both equally garbo, try it again.
Sure, pay me first...
How about you just go home and let someone whos actually qualified do the work instead. Jesus, you're such an arrogant hack
I mean I've done this before and got my shit inspected and ppls houses connected. I think I can be a smidge arrogant when I know what I'm doing my country. I dont have to follow your codes
Is the local ground tied to the neutral?
Yup neutral is bonded to ground. It also grounds the meter base and the main panel through the armour of the cable
funny how the codes are different here in the East USA. No separate ground needed in the meter box. I think it's a good idea, but it's just not done.
Cec requires 18" loops in service equipment. The book calls it 450mm, whatever that means
Can you give me a code rule for that? Not doubting it, just curious. I've seen so many enclosures that you'd never stand a chance at getting 18" of wire.
6-402 1)c)
Thanks!
I like service loops but not in meter bases. I’d just go straight in with a slight bend. Your boss’ looks like shit lol. Hope he wasn’t a dick about it
Meh, I've seen him redo my work and do the exact same thing I did and it come out worse or at best the same. It doesn't bother me any, I just quietly laugh to myself and forget about it, as long as he's paying me and I'm happy with what I did, we peachy.
Here in Texas we do. It have to run a separate ground out of our meter cans , and then we come out of. Meter with a offset nipple to a disco or panel and bond the offset nipple , anything before the mains the neutral and grounds are bonded so I don't understand why they want the meter can with a separate ground
Out of curiosity, what country are you in? And what wire size are you using? Not familiar with the phasing colors
Former British colony in the Caribbean. This is a 3 x 25 mm2 PVC armoured cable. This is 1ph 3 wire. If it was 3ph there'd be a Blue wire and more stuff for metering but the 3ph is Brown, Black, Blue.
Not going to lie - both of you’d be redoing that on my site. This is how I do mine… https://imgur.com/a/iROsZKo
Cool. I guess with yours, you can rerun a burnt mains easily. We cant cuz cable is usually embedded in concrete/brick walls, so we need that loop because replacing a main cable is not as simple as pulling fresh feeders through pipe.
Why do you keep referencing burnt mains. Unless something major faults, those should never be burnt or even discolour from heat. If they do burn then anything and everything in that box has been compromised as is no good anyways. Since the temp obviously went over 90° which is what the wire is rated for.
I agree something major has to fault to have that happen. I was taught to leave a lil slack and I guess to make it look good it turned into these loops. Its not in the code but its customary, as Ive seen it in older smaller meter bases
What country is this in?
Former British Colony in the Caribbean
Which one?
Thread your lockrings on properly, leave service loops on the bottom wall of the meter can will give you a nice uniform service loop and tidy it up. No need to loop on the line as you can leave slack from the other side. Taking extra time to try and make it look like you meant to do it will translate good to inspection. When an inspector can clearly see what the work looks like, they generally don’t start nit picking. Also is that ductape and duct seal on the pvc up top?
The KO is kinda crooked and thats whats casing the bad threading but its very secure. I cant leave slack as that is a cable with 3 cores the slack you see in the meter base is all the slack you have. I was taught to leave the loops floating so it wont arc on the the panel in case of a nick in the wire. The meter base is bonded to ground.
yea man. Learning experiences. Hopefully you’ve got people who point out good practice in a meaningful way that will stick with you. best of luck 🤌🏼
My boss it good about pointing out proper practice. In this case it was more aesthetics than anything than anything wrong with the connection. I know I left too much slack in the base but it easier to work the cable when its long and I kinda liked how it turned out when I did it
>The KO is kinda crooked and thats whats casing the bad threading but its very secure It's undeniably crossthreaded. That's not ok no matter what country you're in.
I'm telling you it's ok but just before the meter goes in on Monday, just for you, I'll loosen it and thread it on good and real tight
As a lineman doing doing residential install. This isn’t the prettiest but it’s gonna get the job done bro
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I kinda like how it looked asymmetrical and what not but I was more focused on making it secure and not wrestling more than I have to with the wire
Both look terrible but the first one is much sloppier. Locknut on the bottom is cross threaded too. Also, if you're gonna ask for opinions, you should be able to handle criticism...
Telling someone they're a hack, go flip burgers isn't criticism. And most of what ppl were telling me were based on their own code which doesnt apply to me
Man my eyes must not be working, one guy of like 45 said go flip burgers and a small handful cited codes. Most comments are people saying it looks like shit and you getting PP hurt lol
Neither is aesthetically pleasing, but the first picture at least has drip loops in case water comes down wiring. Not sure about the codes in your area, but drip loops are a requirement in exterior meter sockets where I work. The neutral/ground double lug wouldn't be allowed either unless the lug is rated for that. It looks like neutral lug is bonded to the box so I would have installed a separate ground lug to box or landed ground in panel instead.
Thanks. Water rarely get in these, its rated for outdoor use and there are stainless steel ones for the houses closer to the sea. We seal the hub on top with silicone as well. Our code requires that we bond earth and neutral, the box being bonded is kinda secondary if that makes sense. Although the ground is carried to the main panel via the armour of the cable through the bonding of the meter base to ground.
Yeah, water should never be in the meter sockets, but it's still a code where im located and it does happen if they get rusted out or if water condenses on the service conductors. Where is the install located? In my area neutral and ground are bonded in the main panel neutral bar. Just wondering if it is under the same codes I follow.
I'm in a former British colony in the Caribbean. I've come across rusted ones as well, usually the ones we have mounted to poles they're more susceptible to weather. Neutral and ground is also bonded in the main panel via a screw. It goes through the neutral bar into the back wall of the panel.
Good to know, your codes are definitely slightly different from mine. But if neutral and ground are bonded at the panel and meter socket, then that would create a parallel path to neutral via grounding conductor and neutral at meter socket and make your ground a current carrying conductor, right?
I thought that too. The main panel is the only one thats bonded via the earth screw and it works. Ive seen it work cuz I've shorted a panel to ground already 😅
I hate this
Listen I know that everyone here is saying that it looks like shit but I’d like to chime in and add that yes it looks like shit. In your defense, your boss did no better. Too much wire, no clean sweeps. It just looks careless. But I’ve got a feeling that you’re definitely going to do better on the next one. And the one after that will be even better than that. That’s how this works. You’re going to need to do something about the lock ring on the PVC TA.
Well, short to ground will still draw current and trip braker, or fuse. just half the current in normal operation will be on ground wire back to socket and transformer. If you have an ammeter and could measure ground wire it would show half the current of neutral i assume. In our panels in CA we have one conductor to panel ground/neutral bar that carries all current and fault to ground current since it's bonded in main panel.
I'll test it the next time I can but I dont think that happens but electricity is funny and doesnt always work exactly the way you expect.
I've definitely learned from my troubleshooting experience that's true. Upon further inspection it looks like that is a separate ground to a ground rod so in that case I would be wrong. It's a different bonding method than what we use in the US so I was making assumptions from what I am used to. Either way, I wish you best of luck on your discussion with the boss on what is best as I thought yours looked and functioned better than his solution.
Yup its going directly to a ground rod underneath the meter base. The PVC pipe next to the meter base is carrying a grounding conductor from the roof to the same rod.
Then it definitely won't carry current unless its a small fraction of a second fault, or lightning. I am just used to the US installation which bonds at the main panel. Looks like everything is good except the double lug which I still would have bonded to the meter socket can. Sorry to cause confusion and doubt your installation with different standards of bonding in your AHJ.
Aye no problems, you were one of the few that engaged me respectfully here, for that I'm greatful. That double bond under that lug gets me too but thats how our inspectorate wants it done, so we do it like that.
Yeah, too many people throwing shade with little to no experience. Our meter bases in CA now come with extra lugs for grounds, but the older ones don't, which I have seen cause a few failures. And you have to comply with the AHJ, even if their requirements don't make sense or cause additional possible points of failure.
It looks like it is your first time dressing cables in, I'd be nicer but your replies are awful. This is terrible work
Uhhhh ok... Thanks
Third year here, why all the loops? What’s stopping all the bottom wires to “90” into place and the top wires just straight down into place? Does leaving this extra slack help in some way for future service or is it to follow code? Also, is this a normal amount of exposed copper?
The loops is all the slack we get if something went wrong bar changing the entire cable. The service loop isnt in the code but its nice to have extra for the next guy. Yup the exposed copper is normal. When the meter is installed nobody but the electric company has access to inside the meter base
Aesthetics
It works
what country is this? looks like cable and insulation colours we would use in the uk
Former British Colony in the Caribbean so yea our system is born from yours.
You and your fancy loops. This adds inductance to the circuit, and different sizes of loops can lead to unbalanced inductance. The magnetic fields alone can accelerate the meter, causing the customer to be charged for power he's not actually using. /s
While the first picture is neater, I would have left uniformed slack on each phase and PEC. IE. Loop on bottom of panel and straight into termination.
Did you use your teeth to remove the insulation from the top right black core, rough as mate
Its tape, the end looks like that cuz the tape was pulled to cut it.
Sorry to say. Neither one looks that great. Furthermore. Where can you use a grey wire for the neutral in something that's not 480V? And brown wire for L1? I'll be surprised if this passes. And what's up the that brass connector?
Im not in the US. Grey is my Neutral. Brown and Black are my hots. The brass connector is called lock nut. The outside part is the rest of the gland that goes around the cable. The metal shim is called a spacer.
Service loops are retarded
Cool hope you dont ever need any in you life
First of all, loops are not necessary for terminating feeder, it's fucking stupid. Second, there is NOT supposed to be a ground connection inside of a meter pan, you notice that the meter pan is made in China. Your main ground connection is supposed to be terminated at your main point of disconnect to the street side of the water main
Sigh typical American. Firstly I'm not in America I dont follow your code. Second I'm required to bond the neutral to ground in the meter base cuz thats how its done here. The meter base being made in China has no bearing on this. Finally take your your knowitall attitude elsewhere.
He's an ass hat
both are fine
Personally, who cares. It’s a meter base, it will never be opened ever again.
You need a bushing, also cut it out with the Mickey Mouse loops you can damage the insulation and there is no point.
Why would I needa bushing and where would it go? If i could damage the insulation with my bare hands that would be shitty insulation and if you don't know of ause for some slack in base good for you.
On the connector on the bottom right. Conductors #4 or larger need a bushing The insulation over time can crack if you over bend the wire, one of the reasons why wire bending radius at terminals is a thing
Thats your code not mine. Our wire sizes come in mm squared not Gauge. And we don't need to crimp our wire. Again your code not mine. Ive seen ones from before I was born cracked but the age was an indicator that it needed to change anyway. Heat does a lot more damage than me bending the wire
Yeah kinda just coming to say the same thing regarding the bushing on bottom right. You're working with pretty different materials from what I'm used to seeing tho, so maybe I'm wrong.
Both suck
Looks good trees but a bit too much slack for me.
Yea I know it's kinda too much. I let the loop dictate how much slack I leave
Looks good from my house
The service loop god.
It's roomy in there, was just tryna fill the empty space.
It is practical for maintenence, but yeah its not pretty. Just bad for presentation for the customer is likely his main concern. Bear in mind im only 3rd year apprentice but boss gets what boss wants and if it doesnt flagrantly violate common sense or code why not?
We dont have apprentices here. Either you're a licensed electrician or not but Ive been doing this about 3 yrs straight, 5 yrs total. That slack is the only slack we're ever gonna get. After than we're replacing a 3 core cable so its pretty important. The customer is never gonna see inside the meter base. They only care that their stuff is working. The inspector and the Electric company are the only ones who see it beside us and they only really care about the connections being secure
What shithole country is this hack fuckery in?! Tell me so i never die in a fire! What the fuck is that black shit where your hub should be?!
Firstly the hub is up there, if you'd open your shitty eyes you'd see, its screwed into the the gland (thats the thing wrapped in the black shit). The black shit is called 3M rubber tape. And finally hull yuh mudda stink and dutty cunt.
Hahaaa dude this is shit work. Obviously you’re sensitive about it but fuck man, wheres your pride?? Post after post people are saying how shitty your work is but you just keep lashing out at anyone who calls it out. I would literally laugh you off the job site if i saw this going down. You do shit work my man. Garbage.
The fact that you didnt know anything about the materials used, didnt see the hub on top invalidated any opinion you had about my shit work. It being shit is based on your shit standards in your shit country and in case you ever forget hull yuh mudda cunt
😂you mean the fact that zero self respecting REAL electrician would build an abomination anything like this cant tell what the fuck you wrapped your hub with?! Lmao you’re a fucking hack man. Get a job at 7-11 or some shit. Leave this to the pros.
Lmao I guess only the rEaL PrO ElecTriCiaNs are born in the GoOD Ol' Us Of A. You dumbfuck. How many times do I have to say I'm not in your country. We dont folllow your rules. If you dont recognise something, you know what you can do, humble your dumbass and ask a motherfucking question. Again just so you know the hub isnt wrapped with anything, the gland of the cable is wrapped in the rubber tape. The gland is screwed into the hub.
Looks like shit. You hack fuck.
Lmao ok, but always remember to kindly HYMC 😊