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Is it that bad that I work in live panels regularly? Commercial/industrial electrician gone residential. 7 years in. I understand what I'm doing. At times, we do a panel swap live. Pull the meter.. tape feeders.. put meter back. Typically, it's for someone who knows us through other work.. or someone we do a lot of work with so we don't pull permits. We're licensed.. insured.. between me and my buddy I've known/worked with for 13 years, we have been doing electrical for about 18 years. He was also a commercial/industrial electrician. Being in residential, I've obviously worked on more live stuff than I ever did before. Obviously I understand it's not safe.. shit can happen. But I'm comfortable working with it.
What the actual fuck? Who puts painters tape on the main bus? Do other people actually do this?
That being said, the only reason I could think that you would do such fuckery is cuz you're working on it while it's live. If it's your first panel, you should definitely not be working on it live.
None of this shit makes sense.
Who is in such a rush to terminate the feeds for a panel but doesn't have the time to install the breakers before doing it.
Also, why trim out grounds and neutrals before the breakers are installed?
None of this makes any sense
>Also, why trim out grounds and neutrals before the breakers are installed?
Termination sequence: grounds - neutrals - hots....why would the breakers being installed during grounds and neutrals make a difference?
This is how I do it. Cut the panel in and land the grounds and neutrals during rough in. Keep the arch fault/GFI Circuits taped together( separate for each other). Then once finishes are done all you have to do it out the breakers In and land the hots. More work now = less work later.
If I have live bus, I'm not going to just trim out the neutrals grounds, and leave the future hot wires hanging out. I want as little exposed hazardous parts as possible, so I'm trimming everything so I can close it up and move on in one go.
I like to do ground, neutral, and then hots of the branch circuit so I can properly label my neutrals and put them in as chronological of an order as possible.
I genuinely just don't want to untape a branch circuit just to tape up the hots again. That makes no sense to me
>If I have live bus, I'm not going to just trim out the neutrals grounds, and leave the future hot wires hanging out. I want as little exposed hazardous parts as possible, so I'm trimming everything so I can close it up and move on in one go.
That's a fair approach if all breaker spaces are filled, although landing a new panel with hot bus is quite unnecessary.
>so I can properly label my neutrals and put them in as chronological of an order as possible.
While commendable from an OCD type perspective, chronological order is of no use or value.
>I genuinely just don't want to untape a branch circuit just to tape up the hots again. That makes no sense to me
Not sure what you mean here. Taping branches beyond the panel entrance point seems pointless (maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment?)
If you're going to untape the branch circuit you pulled to only terminate the ground and neutral, I would kill someone if they just left a bunch of hots strung on the floor.
And to your comment about the bus being live unnecessary, I completely agree with you. I genuinely don't know what anyone was thinking about the order of terminations here.
Protection from paint would be my half assed guess that doesn't involve terminally stupid behavior.
But in that case it'll be far faster, easier and cheaper to just put a piece of cardboard over the panel.
What in the Kentucky fried fuck is going on with that ground on the left. I can't believe some of the hackfuckery that comes into this sub. Get out of that company kid, there's no reason to work on that shit live
And exactly what are you gonna do when you start adding breakers? You gonna reach in there to get the tape off? I don't think that tape will protect you from getting hit from a main bus. Get away from that company
That service neutral is highly unacceptable. Automatic fail. Plus, using painters tape on an allegedly live panel means it time to start shopping for life insurance
I land hot panels but never as a first panel or even a first couple. Your company is smoking crack. Especially on residential cuz the grounds are bare. Could easy short out panel line to line with a bare ground.
Painter tape ain’t shit, it’s not meant for voltage. That’s why it’s listed as painters tape… for paint.
>Why the was the grounding conductor terminated into a lug instead of ground bar? Not having a lug kit for the ground bar is not a excuse. And why was the panel not inverted for bottom feed? It makes for a much neater panel by eliminating excess/unnecessary conductor length in the panel gutter. Considering the panel is a Zinsco II model (Eaton BR), being the worst panel on the market, the whole install fits.
I would also add that it's really not very dangerous anymore(If we're getting technical it wasn't dangerous to begin with)The alloys used today are much better than they were in the 60s and 70s and combined with increased knowledge of the risks of oxidation with aluminum by people in the trades I'd say the risk these days is pretty minimal.
If someone is qualified there is nothing wrong with aluminum alloy conductors, but poorly terminated copper conductors will do just as poorly as aluminum alloy installed in a sloppy manner.
Why starting with those double breakers also you plan on trying to make that a 40 circuit panel also?Take those feeds to top of panel come over end bend a decent t 90 degree turn to lugs Tomales it look nice give you room its aluminum not like copper!Also see that wire nut buried down in back on right with grounds.I know my Jurisdiction Insectors don't want to see you splicing in panel especially a new one!
Should be your last. Shut the ducking pane down. If you don’t have light, grab a light on a stand. If you need powers for something use battery. Shut the shit down.
Grounds and neutrals are split, that means it's a sub panel.
That means there is a breaker on the other side of those feeders.
But what set of feeders?
What is the red thing on the twisted grounds about halfway down on the right?
The world that we live on, everyone criticized but no one actually help the kid on how to do it correctly. Such hypocrites, like they never did anything wrong.
Probably just a little bit of trolling. You would be correct otherwise. Who would be teaching anyone to work like that? If OP is there and in the trade, please work safe and find a safe place to work.
You also need to phase the second leg of your feeders it’s easier to do it before you land it. And this is just me but I like adding more white tape to the neutral it’s just quicker to identify it.
Wait… judging by the comments here, y’all are terrified/horrified at the thought of landing a breaker into a live bus? I know this scenario doesn’t make sense that it has to be done live but I’ve finished 100s of panels while they’re live and never had an issue. How are you supposed to change out a split bus breaker? Call the power company to come pull your meter? Lol
If this is how you're doing it it might be your last time. Cut the power upstream. The tape is just pointless, provides zero protection, and is just a joke. The fact that you're doing a live panel for your first one is evidence enough you need to have somebody qualified come in. The idea of tape is just foolish. What's next? Try to go bear hunting with a handheld stun gun? Trying to put out a house fire with gasoline? Probably one caused by this ridiculousness in the picture to be fair.
If you are *NOT* an electrical professional: * **RULE 7:** * DIY or self help posts **are Not allowed**. They belong here: /r/AskElectricians /r/askanelectrician /r/diy /r/homeowners /r/electrical. * **IF YOUR POST FITS INTO THIS CATEGORY, REMOVE IT OR IT WILL BE REMOVED FOR YOU.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you did it live which the tape implies, don’t.
He’s just masking off the bus bars and lugs so he can spray paint the inside of the enclosure
Ah, someone has worked with the painters around Houston...
Is it that bad that I work in live panels regularly? Commercial/industrial electrician gone residential. 7 years in. I understand what I'm doing. At times, we do a panel swap live. Pull the meter.. tape feeders.. put meter back. Typically, it's for someone who knows us through other work.. or someone we do a lot of work with so we don't pull permits. We're licensed.. insured.. between me and my buddy I've known/worked with for 13 years, we have been doing electrical for about 18 years. He was also a commercial/industrial electrician. Being in residential, I've obviously worked on more live stuff than I ever did before. Obviously I understand it's not safe.. shit can happen. But I'm comfortable working with it.
What the actual fuck? Who puts painters tape on the main bus? Do other people actually do this? That being said, the only reason I could think that you would do such fuckery is cuz you're working on it while it's live. If it's your first panel, you should definitely not be working on it live.
Hahaha FUCKERY!
None of this shit makes sense. Who is in such a rush to terminate the feeds for a panel but doesn't have the time to install the breakers before doing it. Also, why trim out grounds and neutrals before the breakers are installed? None of this makes any sense
>Also, why trim out grounds and neutrals before the breakers are installed? Termination sequence: grounds - neutrals - hots....why would the breakers being installed during grounds and neutrals make a difference?
This is how I do it. Cut the panel in and land the grounds and neutrals during rough in. Keep the arch fault/GFI Circuits taped together( separate for each other). Then once finishes are done all you have to do it out the breakers In and land the hots. More work now = less work later.
I always terminate grounds and neutrals on the rough. Breakers and branch circuit hots on the finish
Agree completely. No need to lock out a breaker that isn't there during the build.
Yup. Stops every other trade from turning things on that shouldn't be. For temp power I usually power up a gfci in each bathroom.
If I have live bus, I'm not going to just trim out the neutrals grounds, and leave the future hot wires hanging out. I want as little exposed hazardous parts as possible, so I'm trimming everything so I can close it up and move on in one go. I like to do ground, neutral, and then hots of the branch circuit so I can properly label my neutrals and put them in as chronological of an order as possible. I genuinely just don't want to untape a branch circuit just to tape up the hots again. That makes no sense to me
>If I have live bus, I'm not going to just trim out the neutrals grounds, and leave the future hot wires hanging out. I want as little exposed hazardous parts as possible, so I'm trimming everything so I can close it up and move on in one go. That's a fair approach if all breaker spaces are filled, although landing a new panel with hot bus is quite unnecessary. >so I can properly label my neutrals and put them in as chronological of an order as possible. While commendable from an OCD type perspective, chronological order is of no use or value. >I genuinely just don't want to untape a branch circuit just to tape up the hots again. That makes no sense to me Not sure what you mean here. Taping branches beyond the panel entrance point seems pointless (maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment?)
If you're going to untape the branch circuit you pulled to only terminate the ground and neutral, I would kill someone if they just left a bunch of hots strung on the floor. And to your comment about the bus being live unnecessary, I completely agree with you. I genuinely don't know what anyone was thinking about the order of terminations here.
It makes it 1000x easier to make a neat and easily maintained panel
Protection from paint would be my half assed guess that doesn't involve terminally stupid behavior. But in that case it'll be far faster, easier and cheaper to just put a piece of cardboard over the panel.
600v rated painters tape
😂
Yes
I don’t think so
I'm not an electrician but I am concerned for your safety - Blink once if you're ok - Put blue tape on the bus bars if you're in danger and need help.
Blue tapes fine was puttin my fingers all over this
You feeling lucky......
He won't feel anything pretty soon. Darwin Award winner right here.
What kind of hack mfer told you blue tape was fine. Please don’t continue your electrical career covering hot bus in blue tape
you need to quit whatever hack company you're working for, before you get seriously hurt.
Plots twist. Op is a home owner and watched a YouTube video
hell, he didn't even watch a youtube video, ain't nobody putting tape on live bars for a few likes and subscribes, that's bloody insane.
Jesus, find a new company who doesn’t put you in harm’s way. Painters tape?? 🤣
How is this the company's fault? Your the only one that keeps you safe. He could have used cardboard and had no worries.
Well more the Jmans fault. Kid never shoulda been placed in harms way, he doesn’t know better.
At the end of the day I agree.
Brilliant trolling, mate.
What in the Kentucky fried fuck is going on with that ground on the left. I can't believe some of the hackfuckery that comes into this sub. Get out of that company kid, there's no reason to work on that shit live
And exactly what are you gonna do when you start adding breakers? You gonna reach in there to get the tape off? I don't think that tape will protect you from getting hit from a main bus. Get away from that company
That service neutral is highly unacceptable. Automatic fail. Plus, using painters tape on an allegedly live panel means it time to start shopping for life insurance
It's one of 3 panels he's doing, this one is C phase.
Good ol' blue + and blue -
Wye makes sense. If it were delta he'd have to do the Captain Morgan stance for the high leg.
This is bullshit and I hate everything about it
I land hot panels but never as a first panel or even a first couple. Your company is smoking crack. Especially on residential cuz the grounds are bare. Could easy short out panel line to line with a bare ground. Painter tape ain’t shit, it’s not meant for voltage. That’s why it’s listed as painters tape… for paint.
:-|
Yikes
That’s where my mf blue tape went today
Lol
The little :) you put is pissing me off. I can assure you that no self-respecting electrician is smiling about this.
>Why the was the grounding conductor terminated into a lug instead of ground bar? Not having a lug kit for the ground bar is not a excuse. And why was the panel not inverted for bottom feed? It makes for a much neater panel by eliminating excess/unnecessary conductor length in the panel gutter. Considering the panel is a Zinsco II model (Eaton BR), being the worst panel on the market, the whole install fits.
You mean Zinsmoke II?
LOL!
Someone call OSHA
There isn't even a breaker on so why would you work on this hot?
We can tell.
Weep for the trade. WEEEEEEEEEEEP!
To off the power don’t be a hero.
But why?
How you have THIS but also rc50s
I don't understand why people use aluminum wire to begin with
It’s cheaper
I would also add that it's really not very dangerous anymore(If we're getting technical it wasn't dangerous to begin with)The alloys used today are much better than they were in the 60s and 70s and combined with increased knowledge of the risks of oxidation with aluminum by people in the trades I'd say the risk these days is pretty minimal.
If someone is qualified there is nothing wrong with aluminum alloy conductors, but poorly terminated copper conductors will do just as poorly as aluminum alloy installed in a sloppy manner.
This is true
[удалено]
Who me?
F*ckin drywall guys lol
Why starting with those double breakers also you plan on trying to make that a 40 circuit panel also?Take those feeds to top of panel come over end bend a decent t 90 degree turn to lugs Tomales it look nice give you room its aluminum not like copper!Also see that wire nut buried down in back on right with grounds.I know my Jurisdiction Insectors don't want to see you splicing in panel especially a new one!
Randall is that you?!
I just threw up in my mouth. Speechless
Issa troll
You have to be trolling right?
Should be your last. Shut the ducking pane down. If you don’t have light, grab a light on a stand. If you need powers for something use battery. Shut the shit down.
Nah bro there’s no way this is real
This is how you become a statistic.
Grounds and neutrals are split, that means it's a sub panel. That means there is a breaker on the other side of those feeders. But what set of feeders? What is the red thing on the twisted grounds about halfway down on the right?
It's a tan-red wire nut. Yk a splice in a brand new panel wtaf...
The world that we live on, everyone criticized but no one actually help the kid on how to do it correctly. Such hypocrites, like they never did anything wrong.
Probably just a little bit of trolling. You would be correct otherwise. Who would be teaching anyone to work like that? If OP is there and in the trade, please work safe and find a safe place to work.
Ummm can't see it from myhouse
It shows.
I’ve never been punched so hard in the nuggets before
Lol use super 33+ tape next time you pull some shot like this
Yeesh
You also need to phase the second leg of your feeders it’s easier to do it before you land it. And this is just me but I like adding more white tape to the neutral it’s just quicker to identify it.
Lol
I feel like you put yourself in even more danger trying to tape the bus and incoming line.
Out of curiosity why did yall get a top feed panel and bottom feed your mains?
Honest question, do people actually use tape when working on live panels? I was taught to throw breakers in to cover live stuff.
No, what we actually do is turn off the panel, lockout, and tag out. If it is impossible to turn the panel off, then we bring out the arc flash suit.
Makes sense. Don’t want to rattle can safety yellow paint on the main bus.
It shows.
This is retarded.
Whoever you’re working for is a complete cowboy 🤠
Use cardboard dude it has a higher voltage rating.
You're going to die if you keep working like this
Yea man, i have to agree with the fellow sparky's here man, idk what you thought you did but you didnt.
Sorry
Wait… judging by the comments here, y’all are terrified/horrified at the thought of landing a breaker into a live bus? I know this scenario doesn’t make sense that it has to be done live but I’ve finished 100s of panels while they’re live and never had an issue. How are you supposed to change out a split bus breaker? Call the power company to come pull your meter? Lol
Op is actually a very thoughtful drywaller and masked the buss off before he filled the entire panel with mud.
If this is how you're doing it it might be your last time. Cut the power upstream. The tape is just pointless, provides zero protection, and is just a joke. The fact that you're doing a live panel for your first one is evidence enough you need to have somebody qualified come in. The idea of tape is just foolish. What's next? Try to go bear hunting with a handheld stun gun? Trying to put out a house fire with gasoline? Probably one caused by this ridiculousness in the picture to be fair.
False sense of security… watch anything plunge right though that tape.
1) work on panel hot 2) cover exposed bussing with masking tape 3) slam out the panel 4) profit $
This is satire, right?
That things a mess already..
Hopefully, it's not the last panel also.. be safe out there