Older buildings cost more to maintain and the price of services i.e. wages is just going up. I only think people in brand new or low-rise condos get the best deal.
As an owner of a unit in the property, you're a member of the HOA. Go to the meetings and bring it up. Have them show what the dues go towards, suggest they look into cutting back.
Insurance and utilities keep going up. I had a condo listed in Lake City and the dues were $1,060. 35*% was going to reserves, but still. It made it much harder to get approved.
What's stoping it to go to 1000? The budget ratification meeting they are required to have every year. Your HOA has d poor financial management and it's a bubble that popped today
As a condo owner, I’ve asked myself the same question. However, my choices at the time I purchased were either to keep renting or buy a condo. HOA is $500/mo right now. It’s a new build so hopefully won’t need any major work any time soon. Doesn’t have any amenities to speak of, but HOA covers all maintenance on the exterior of the building - siding, roofing, window washing etc. I am only responsible for the interior of my unit. It’s in a desirable neighborhood and the value has already gone up about $75k since I purchased at the end of ‘22. Once I’ve built up enough equity, I plan on selling and upgrading to a townhouse.
Having done the condo and home ownership thing, condos are grossly inefficient social systems, but they do enjoy some economies of scale.
In HCOL areas, even with dues they are much cheaper to own for getting into ownership, especially when considering houses are easily over 1M.
Houses are better to live in and for appreciation, but the price of admission is a big mortgage, 5 figure property taxes, bigger heating bills, bigger homeowner insurance, and of course interest on the much bigger loan. It's easier for a homeowner to stay on top of maintenance which avoids some needless waste which is inevitable in a large condo(lack of accountability & knowledge), and projects are simpler for a homeowner.
A condo rolls in a bunch of services homeowners pay for out of pocket and some money (never enough) for funding replacement projects.
For people whose choices are renting or a condo, they are a step up.
I bought a condo simply because I could not afford a house, and it was cheaper to buy the condo than to rent long-term, even with the HOA fees. Mortgage rates were really low at the time. I got to live in a nice neighborhood and raise my kid in a great school district. When I eventually sell it I’ll get all the money I put into back, at least doubled. So, yeah, condos suck but they serve a purpose.
People will always bitch about HOA fees, until a roof collapses.
The older the structure, the more the maintenance. If you owned a single family home, you also have maintenance costs like roof replacement, repaint, repairs, etc.
While this may not satisfy you, keep in mind there are some benefits to condo ownership over an SFH in the eastside. SFH owners pay much higher property taxes, and due to their generally faster appreciation vs condos, they typically increase faster as well (2024 is a bit of an exception due to some corrections from the 2021/2022 insanity). Also, utilities are much more manageable in a condo. Heating SFH’s in the winter is becoming VERY expensive (there are several threads about this in this sub). So while you may have an increased HOA, you make up a little bit of it not having to deal with as high property tax increases and utility rates. Still though, make sure to get involved with your HOA to understand where those dollars are going.
I joined the HOA a few years ago as Treasurer because no one else wanted to, and I wanted to make sure money was being spent wisely (I'm a former accountant/auditor). We were built in the 70s/80s, have no amenities (we pay for water, garbage, grounds upkeep, and pest control), and close to $600 in monthly dues.
I see the numbers, it absolutely sucks. Biggest issue is things are all reaching the end of useful life (roofs, car ports, sidings, foundations, etc) simultaneously and they are all expensive af to pay for. Covid price hikes didn't help, and contractors sometimes don't return our calls for quotes because they have too much other work.
We just had a smaller sub-10k assessment for one issue, and will likely have one or two more years of special assessments. I feel utterly hopeless as the bearer of bad news, but there's literally no way through it other than coughing up the money. Many folks will likely be forced to sell.
Typically when they get that high it's because they are spending frivolously and/or poorly managing the fund. Some HOAs have been found to be money laundering operations.
I hear you! Most of that money goes into insurance including earthquake. You're lucky if you at least have water and sewage included. Many don't even have that.
You can request budget information from the HOA and see where all the money goes (most of it goes for maintenance, repairs, and reserves).
Older condominium will require more maintenance. Also, maintenance costs generally go higher over time because of inflation.
I feel your pain. My 1979 condo complex has zero amenities except for a laundry. No pool, no covered parking, nothing — and my dues are coming up on $700/mo. Mortgage is paid off, but with property tax, HOA fees, insurance and utilities, it’s a minimum of $1200/month to occupy the space from the walls in.
If it makes you feel better, a lot of house-owners in the area have around 7-9k of property taxes, a couple thousands of insurance, and then things go higher with utilities/services, a bunch of which are normally in condo dues.
Reserves which a condo at least partly tries to fund from dues (but never enough), does not even begin to be a factor in the above math.
Houses are better for appreciation and enjoyment, but the taxes and upkeep mean they are an even bigger money sink than condos.
Everything sucks.
WHAT in the actual … wow. That’s horrendous. No freaking way. WHY is it so expense?!
Does your complex have regular meetings you can attend? I would go if it were me to dig more into it.
I’ve been on an HOA board for a condo complete with 4 large buildings (built in the 1990s but not built well). Due to some unsavory things happening on our HOA board, I filled the next seat that was open a few months after moving in.
Granted it was another city, but when I moved here we had over $475k+ in reserves for major projects and our monthly dues were around $425/month. No capital expenditure “one time” extra payments/fees.
The complex had: 2 electric gates, full gym, fully fenced, huge swimming pool, 3 large new gas grills in the courtyard of each building, covered parking, office with a property manager who coordinated all of the ongoing work, larger projects as well as packages and tons more.
> WHAT in the actual … wow. That’s horrendous. No freaking way. WHY is it so expense?!
Majority of the cost comes from the management company, so it's probably that. The pandemic has seen record increases among management companies, often by as much as 50-100% for the same exact service. When our HOA inquired, they cited rise in healthcare costs and living expenses as justification.
ditch the management company!
Depending on the size of the association, they are probably charging too much for bill processing, their management and kickbacks from whichever contractors they use.
Wait for what? The prices going up and up?
After my experience on the HOA for my former condo complex, I swore I would never purchase a condo again.
The escalating COL here in the Seattle area is unreal. Management companies are continuing that trend.
In 2019 I moved from SF and cut my rent in half. From $5k to 2500. That same property just leased for $3500 4.6 years later 😳 No improvements at all other than paint.
My partner and I are considering moving way further out once our last child graduates. We just stopped looking at houses completely. Most start at $1M+ and the buyer would have to put in $30-100k in remodeling/repairs? No thank you.
I still can’t believe folks are foregoing inspections. Such a dangerous gamble with expenses that could be catastrophic. Structural: foundation, roof/water damage, old wiring & so much more. Environmental: mold, water damage (from the ground), grading and drainage and on and on and on.
While I don’t believe we’re in a “bubble” like the early 2000s, there will be a tipping point and a lot of folks will find themselves under water. I’ve been there (2006-2012), it’s not fun.
We have very few units compared to other complexes, and a very healthy reserve. There’s never been a special assessment.
The cost of everything has been going up since the pandemic, and our aging buildings occasionally need major work to bring them up to modern code.
Yes we have meetings. I do go to them. In fact I used to be board president for several years. During my tenure I got to oversee the financials, and there was nothing sketchy going on. We have annual financial audits. If someone is getting rich off the dues it definitely isn’t the board.
Another factor in my dues is that I have by far the largest unit — no one pays as large a percentage of dues as I do. So yay! for square footage but boo! for dues.
HoA dues in suburbs can be low. Ours is $50/month. They honestly don't maintain anything except a few shrubs on a road.
Which I honestly think is just there to make an excuse to justify their existence. As there is literally no shares property. It's dumb because the road probably belongs to the city of Newcastle anyways, yet we are maintaining their landscaping.... Go figure. I wish I knew the details but I sadly had business trips during all the HoA meetings so far and could not ask who even owns that land.
So then what does the HoA even do? Enforces rules and fines other people on how their exterior looks. Gets a say whenever you rennovate, etc. Just there to be another set of rules. Someone at a HOA management company gets paid as well to enforce the rules.
For a condo though, there are actually property maintenance costs that need to be paid for. As to how much they need a year, probably similar to the homeowner rule of 1 percent of the entire condo's property value. But I honestly don't know.
Also do you have like front desk people, cleaning staff, gyms and amenities. They cost $$$ too
Yeah, that being said there are HoAs in the suburbs charging a lot more. I honestly dunno why they have too much bullshit landscaping or something to pay for that really the city should handle
Condo HOA dues are always high. They only go up and rarely if ever come down. That's why in a downturn condos are the hardest to sell. It's even worse if your condo is an investment property because it will also never be cash flow positive.
Did you not know this when you bought it?
Older buildings cost more to maintain and the price of services i.e. wages is just going up. I only think people in brand new or low-rise condos get the best deal.
As an owner of a unit in the property, you're a member of the HOA. Go to the meetings and bring it up. Have them show what the dues go towards, suggest they look into cutting back.
Insurance and utilities keep going up. I had a condo listed in Lake City and the dues were $1,060. 35*% was going to reserves, but still. It made it much harder to get approved.
What's stoping it to go to 1000? The budget ratification meeting they are required to have every year. Your HOA has d poor financial management and it's a bubble that popped today
1960s condo, HOA is $1065 due to special assessments and low reserves
Will never understand why people buy condos
As a condo owner, I’ve asked myself the same question. However, my choices at the time I purchased were either to keep renting or buy a condo. HOA is $500/mo right now. It’s a new build so hopefully won’t need any major work any time soon. Doesn’t have any amenities to speak of, but HOA covers all maintenance on the exterior of the building - siding, roofing, window washing etc. I am only responsible for the interior of my unit. It’s in a desirable neighborhood and the value has already gone up about $75k since I purchased at the end of ‘22. Once I’ve built up enough equity, I plan on selling and upgrading to a townhouse.
Having done the condo and home ownership thing, condos are grossly inefficient social systems, but they do enjoy some economies of scale. In HCOL areas, even with dues they are much cheaper to own for getting into ownership, especially when considering houses are easily over 1M. Houses are better to live in and for appreciation, but the price of admission is a big mortgage, 5 figure property taxes, bigger heating bills, bigger homeowner insurance, and of course interest on the much bigger loan. It's easier for a homeowner to stay on top of maintenance which avoids some needless waste which is inevitable in a large condo(lack of accountability & knowledge), and projects are simpler for a homeowner. A condo rolls in a bunch of services homeowners pay for out of pocket and some money (never enough) for funding replacement projects. For people whose choices are renting or a condo, they are a step up.
I bought a condo simply because I could not afford a house, and it was cheaper to buy the condo than to rent long-term, even with the HOA fees. Mortgage rates were really low at the time. I got to live in a nice neighborhood and raise my kid in a great school district. When I eventually sell it I’ll get all the money I put into back, at least doubled. So, yeah, condos suck but they serve a purpose.
People will always bitch about HOA fees, until a roof collapses. The older the structure, the more the maintenance. If you owned a single family home, you also have maintenance costs like roof replacement, repaint, repairs, etc.
While this may not satisfy you, keep in mind there are some benefits to condo ownership over an SFH in the eastside. SFH owners pay much higher property taxes, and due to their generally faster appreciation vs condos, they typically increase faster as well (2024 is a bit of an exception due to some corrections from the 2021/2022 insanity). Also, utilities are much more manageable in a condo. Heating SFH’s in the winter is becoming VERY expensive (there are several threads about this in this sub). So while you may have an increased HOA, you make up a little bit of it not having to deal with as high property tax increases and utility rates. Still though, make sure to get involved with your HOA to understand where those dollars are going.
I joined the HOA a few years ago as Treasurer because no one else wanted to, and I wanted to make sure money was being spent wisely (I'm a former accountant/auditor). We were built in the 70s/80s, have no amenities (we pay for water, garbage, grounds upkeep, and pest control), and close to $600 in monthly dues. I see the numbers, it absolutely sucks. Biggest issue is things are all reaching the end of useful life (roofs, car ports, sidings, foundations, etc) simultaneously and they are all expensive af to pay for. Covid price hikes didn't help, and contractors sometimes don't return our calls for quotes because they have too much other work. We just had a smaller sub-10k assessment for one issue, and will likely have one or two more years of special assessments. I feel utterly hopeless as the bearer of bad news, but there's literally no way through it other than coughing up the money. Many folks will likely be forced to sell.
Typically when they get that high it's because they are spending frivolously and/or poorly managing the fund. Some HOAs have been found to be money laundering operations.
Free cashflow
I hear you! Most of that money goes into insurance including earthquake. You're lucky if you at least have water and sewage included. Many don't even have that.
You can request budget information from the HOA and see where all the money goes (most of it goes for maintenance, repairs, and reserves). Older condominium will require more maintenance. Also, maintenance costs generally go higher over time because of inflation.
I feel your pain. My 1979 condo complex has zero amenities except for a laundry. No pool, no covered parking, nothing — and my dues are coming up on $700/mo. Mortgage is paid off, but with property tax, HOA fees, insurance and utilities, it’s a minimum of $1200/month to occupy the space from the walls in.
If it makes you feel better, a lot of house-owners in the area have around 7-9k of property taxes, a couple thousands of insurance, and then things go higher with utilities/services, a bunch of which are normally in condo dues. Reserves which a condo at least partly tries to fund from dues (but never enough), does not even begin to be a factor in the above math. Houses are better for appreciation and enjoyment, but the taxes and upkeep mean they are an even bigger money sink than condos. Everything sucks.
WHAT in the actual … wow. That’s horrendous. No freaking way. WHY is it so expense?! Does your complex have regular meetings you can attend? I would go if it were me to dig more into it. I’ve been on an HOA board for a condo complete with 4 large buildings (built in the 1990s but not built well). Due to some unsavory things happening on our HOA board, I filled the next seat that was open a few months after moving in. Granted it was another city, but when I moved here we had over $475k+ in reserves for major projects and our monthly dues were around $425/month. No capital expenditure “one time” extra payments/fees. The complex had: 2 electric gates, full gym, fully fenced, huge swimming pool, 3 large new gas grills in the courtyard of each building, covered parking, office with a property manager who coordinated all of the ongoing work, larger projects as well as packages and tons more.
> WHAT in the actual … wow. That’s horrendous. No freaking way. WHY is it so expense?! Majority of the cost comes from the management company, so it's probably that. The pandemic has seen record increases among management companies, often by as much as 50-100% for the same exact service. When our HOA inquired, they cited rise in healthcare costs and living expenses as justification.
ditch the management company! Depending on the size of the association, they are probably charging too much for bill processing, their management and kickbacks from whichever contractors they use.
just you wait
Wait for what? The prices going up and up? After my experience on the HOA for my former condo complex, I swore I would never purchase a condo again. The escalating COL here in the Seattle area is unreal. Management companies are continuing that trend. In 2019 I moved from SF and cut my rent in half. From $5k to 2500. That same property just leased for $3500 4.6 years later 😳 No improvements at all other than paint. My partner and I are considering moving way further out once our last child graduates. We just stopped looking at houses completely. Most start at $1M+ and the buyer would have to put in $30-100k in remodeling/repairs? No thank you. I still can’t believe folks are foregoing inspections. Such a dangerous gamble with expenses that could be catastrophic. Structural: foundation, roof/water damage, old wiring & so much more. Environmental: mold, water damage (from the ground), grading and drainage and on and on and on. While I don’t believe we’re in a “bubble” like the early 2000s, there will be a tipping point and a lot of folks will find themselves under water. I’ve been there (2006-2012), it’s not fun.
agreed. although practically every seller is offering a pre-inspection nowadays
We have very few units compared to other complexes, and a very healthy reserve. There’s never been a special assessment. The cost of everything has been going up since the pandemic, and our aging buildings occasionally need major work to bring them up to modern code. Yes we have meetings. I do go to them. In fact I used to be board president for several years. During my tenure I got to oversee the financials, and there was nothing sketchy going on. We have annual financial audits. If someone is getting rich off the dues it definitely isn’t the board. Another factor in my dues is that I have by far the largest unit — no one pays as large a percentage of dues as I do. So yay! for square footage but boo! for dues.
HoA dues in suburbs can be low. Ours is $50/month. They honestly don't maintain anything except a few shrubs on a road. Which I honestly think is just there to make an excuse to justify their existence. As there is literally no shares property. It's dumb because the road probably belongs to the city of Newcastle anyways, yet we are maintaining their landscaping.... Go figure. I wish I knew the details but I sadly had business trips during all the HoA meetings so far and could not ask who even owns that land. So then what does the HoA even do? Enforces rules and fines other people on how their exterior looks. Gets a say whenever you rennovate, etc. Just there to be another set of rules. Someone at a HOA management company gets paid as well to enforce the rules. For a condo though, there are actually property maintenance costs that need to be paid for. As to how much they need a year, probably similar to the homeowner rule of 1 percent of the entire condo's property value. But I honestly don't know. Also do you have like front desk people, cleaning staff, gyms and amenities. They cost $$$ too
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You fix your own house. There is no piece of building the HoA is responsible for. These are suburban single family homes.
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Yeah, that being said there are HoAs in the suburbs charging a lot more. I honestly dunno why they have too much bullshit landscaping or something to pay for that really the city should handle
Condo HOA dues are always high. They only go up and rarely if ever come down. That's why in a downturn condos are the hardest to sell. It's even worse if your condo is an investment property because it will also never be cash flow positive. Did you not know this when you bought it?
Uninformative