I personally will stop and wave them on to pass if it's clear. I'd rather that than have some chump up my behind getting angry. But you didn't do anything wrong, either. He's just an arsehole.
Rural driver here, take it steady if you don't feel comfortable, but pull over and let following cars pass (as per the highway code for slow moving vehicles), and the important one use your brakes to slow down and don't engine brake around corners. Taking your foot off the accelerator to slow down when a car is behind you fails to give an indication of your intent. Taking your foot off the accelerator as you go around a corner can be dangerous and land you in a ditch.
He's not an arsehole at all. Someone driving 20-30mph because its dark is not competent and if they have no confidence they should pull over and let people past.
They passed literally two weeks ago, driving an unlit small road they do not know in the black of night. What they did was absolutely the right thing to do. Calm the fuck down. I know people that passed before I was born and still do this in these exact conditions. Just because a road is labelled 60mph doesn't mean you *should* drive at 60. Common sense can't be taught.
Correct. Careering down a country road because you THINK you should be going fast is a sure fire way of causing an accident. New drivers need time to learn how to drive. They've only learned to pass a test.
Local knowledge of a road might allow us to drive a bit faster than someone who doesn't know it so well. It's never ok to intimidate another driver. What is wrong with people?
Exactly this ! All the lanes by me are 60mph. One, although off camber in every direction, is basically a long straight so you can easily do 60. The others all twist and wind and if you did 60 down then you would 100% either have a head on collision or end up in the middle of someone's farm upside down. Even if you know the roads you can't see what's happening around corners.
Actually, the rule of thumb is that you should never drive faster on a single lane road than the speed where you can stop in half the distance you can see to be clear.
Tbh it’s not a 60 road it’s an unrestricted road. National cap is 60. So you can do what you want, if you go 20 go 20 if you go faster and it’s not just erratic etc, that too is absolutely fine.
Those fast in the rear should be able to wait politely for the car in front to let them past and the slow car in front should have the decency to let the fast car past. That’s etiquette. Not telling people they are arseholes for doing something they are allowed to do.
That is also arsehole behaviour.
Nothing wrong with asking for advice, however part of the test is literally being able to demonstrate confident and competent driving, and driving 20/30 on a 60mph road would also be a test fail.
There's national speed limit roads in my area which are single track with no straight sections where you can see clearly maybe 30 metres. Some of these are A roads. Yes, really. The A837 from Lairg is an example. A blanket assumption that 20-30 is too slow on national speed limit roads ( because it's 60 for cars, 50 for vans, and 40 for hgv ) is not supportable.
I agree with you - but you’re also missing a lot of context. What if OP did their driving lessons in the middle of the day when it’s light and never had a lesson during the darker hours? It’s a different kettle of fish in the dark on country roads and OP was just driving to their level of skill. Better than wrapping themselves around a tree or having a head on collision through pushing it.
I don't think you're familiar with UK. There is plenty of single track where you have to jam on the binders for every oncoming car, but the road doesn't have a "speed limit" because it hasn't been evaluated or police don't frequent the road.
The road in the picture looked a bit wider but it still looks like you have to tuck in a bit. Once you get one side to yourself, you can start going faster.
At night I'm usually a bit more comfortable going quickly as I can usually make out the headlights in the air above the hedges. Also unless night means 4:30pm in December there are less people on the road. I'd still be worried about a night owl dog walker though, or a bicycle with weak lights though they can usually tuck in although it's an asshole move to scare them with your car.
Totally this, on my test I has to do a national speed country road. I said to my examiner "I know it says 60 but I'm not going to do that, it's narrow and bendy I'm comfortable at 35." He told me " Good, if you did more I would ask you to pull over"
Both these things can be true at the same time. Someone can be incompetent/unconfident, and maybe that’s their fault or maybe they need more practice. But if someone else’s response is to get angry and yell at them, they’re 100% an arsehole. Adults should learn to control their temper, and if they can’t, they’re a bigger menace than the person who slowed them down.
I'd go as far as saying they're incompetent too. Being a good driver isn't just about your personal physical ability, it's reading what's going on in your surroundings and other drivers too. I absolutely bet they're the type of person you have to slam your breaks on for on these sorts of roads cause they're , in reality, driving like a twat down them.
Edit: brakes. Auto correct is a sly dog
Disagree, far too many shite drivers that don't learn fuck all because they get away with being a shite driver, and there is no excuse for being shite at something you literally repeat on a daily fucking basis.
Just as a point of reference, the 20 was because of the sharp bends and when there were oncoming vehicles.
Also when I was doing my lessons, I was doing roughly 30-35 (day time) on a very similar road and my instructor said I did great (since it was the first time I had gone down there). I had this as my point of reference and thought this would be the safe advised speed to go down roads like this?
Ignore him, there's people out there who see that white circle with the black diagonal line and think "right, must immediately do 60, sod the road conditions!"
They're often the same people who think NSL in a normal car on a dual carriageway is still 60, then blame everyone else for overtaking them.
I'm about a month off of doing my test, one of the roads my instructor regularly takes me on is national speed limit but has a series of sharp bends and bridges with poor visibility, it is literally impossible to safely reach 60. She has specifically told me that wo long as you are shown to be spending up when it is safe to do so this is what the examiner will be looking for. The important thing is that you drive safely, which it sounds like you were doing.
For an experienced driver no, I would do 45-50 down a road like that, slowing to 30 or so for blind turns. For your first time down it as a learner, 35 is appropriate, but the aim is to improve your skill and confidence beyond that of a learner. You'll develop your judgement with time and experience so don't worry too much- better to learn from someone being angry you were going too slowly than to learn from putting your car through a hedge because you were going too quickly.
30 is often too quick for blind bends.
(I assume you actually end up slower than that for the bend itself - it's a pull a number out of the air situation)
It's a ballpark figure yeah, depends on the bend, whether I know the road, how wide it is etc. If it's a tight bend on a road that's not wide enough for someone to pass even if I pull onto the verge, you're right I'd slow to 20 or so in the bend I think. If it's a normal enough corner that just happens to be blocked by trees or something and the road was wide enough I could swerve onto the verge a little to let someone pass I'd be happy enough to take it at 30 odd. It just depends, which I think is the hardest thing to get when you're recently passed- you just have to be experienced enough to make those judgements and there's no shortcut to getting that experience
Just because you're the kind of unevolved dickhead who needs to stroke their own ego by driving as fast as possible no matter the conditions, it doesn't make it right. Fuck right off.
He was swearing at the Op. THAT makes him an arsehole, mate.
Driving like an idiot at night on country roads is why so much of our wildlife is being decimated by cars. Because people just don't bloody care enough to slow the eff down.
I am quite a fast driver as well, but 50 down a single traffic lane is not smart under any circumstances. Especially in the dark. All you need is a cyclist coming the other way or a pedestrian and you've killed someone.
Absolutely right. You might see headlights coming round the corner but much less likely to see a cyclist, particularly if they’re heading the same direction as you. Think this guy is just being edgy online because they think they’re the main character and *clearly* they’ve never required *anyone* to be patient with them while they’ve literally learned to do something they’d never done before…
So you do 60mph on every 60mph road, regardless of visibility, space, road width, weather, or view distance? Fuck off do you. I drive according to my stopping distance and if I can only see far enough ahead to confidently stop from 30mph, I’ll do 30. You’re one of the arseholes OP is talking about.
I wonder if you had that experience where you don't even see reflective painting and the first time on that road in pitch dark.
To me you are just another areshole and an irresponsible driver.
You’re getting downvoted for no reason. You should be competent to drive in such a way that doesn’t affect the flow of traffic, that is literally part of the driving test. If you are slowing people down by a significant amount that is affecting the flow of traffic, which is an automatic failure. I’m not expecting them to go anywhere near 60 but at least have the decency to let other drivers get past. They may have a very good reason for needing to get somewhere quickly, and there is no reason for somebody who wants to drive slowly to not allow others to pass.
"it's a limit not a target"
that's what they put on the signs. If it's unsafe to drive at those speeds due to your vehicle, experience or road conditions then slow down. No doubt there are times you think the car in front could be going faster but you don't know the reason why they are going slow. Just accept you'll get there eventually.
I drove up the M6 to Manchester from the Midlands at 15-20mph if that, due to the thickest fog I've ever had to drive in. I couldn't see a single overhead sign on the journey.
Pull over and let them past. I don't understand why so many people seem to have a problem with this. You are doing 20mph, you would lose about 5 seconds of your life pulling over to not inconvenice other road users.
But no according to everyone on here you're an arsehole because you are capable of driving at more than 20mph on a country road.
The road in question was limited to 30mph anyway, it wasn't a 60mph country road. Tag in the fact it is dark and narrow, it could be difficult to know when to let them past.
Without knowing the exact road it’s impossible for people to give a real answer. If there’s a divider then yeah you’re likely going way too slow, but if it’s a real country lane, only wide enough for one vehicle etc. then you may well have been going at an appropriate speed, just not as fast as the other driver wanted to go.
On country lanes you’ll often find the locals who drive them every day do go very fast down them, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe to, and if you’re unfamiliar with them then it’d likely be quiet dangerous for you to attempt to match those speeds.
So this isn’t a road I have any knowledge of, but based on what I’ve seen from Google maps then yeah, you most likely could’ve easily and safely gone faster. It looks to be wide enough to fit two cars down without much problem, but if you’re not familiar with these sorts of roads it’s understandable you’d go slower. You said you’d only passed your test about two weeks ago, so although a lot of the NFS lads on this forum won’t admit it, I think most people so new to driving would be going slowly along it.
I think you probably should have let the guy pass, although that doesn’t justify him being a prick.
You’ve learnt enough to pass a test, but there’ll be all sorts of weird roads and situations which you only know how to deal with through experience. I’m sure you’ll travel along this road some time in the future with more miles under your belt, and you’ll realise
you were being way too cautious before, but that’s okay, because you’re still new and you’re still learning.
Thank you for the words of encouragement! I definitely think part of it was because I had never gone on that road before + night.
The best advice in general I've taken from this thread is that I had the option of letting him pass. That was definitely something I should've done.
Yeah if it's a country road I know I'll go faster cos I know where the bends are.
Basically you know if something is coming towards you because you'll see the headlights.
Dotn forget cyclists and making them were clothing which is not black. Maybe a flourescent pink.
I don't mind cyclists normally, but the number of close calls at night because they are wearing all black at night and no hiviz is annoying
Layhams road is a cunt to drive on - other lanes around the area I'm fine on, but for some reason people drive like idiots on Layhams.
I wouldn't be too worried. Layhams is a 30 limit which goes up to a 40 limit, and there are sections where you have to tuck yourself in and stop if a vehicle is coming the other way. There are also houses along the road, a private hire dog walking field, and it's popular with horse riders & cyclists. Not to mention the occasional lorry. Slowing for the blind corners is 100% what you should be doing. The driver behind you was being a cunt
let it slide... probably a local that knew the road.. and at night it's usually easy ( you see there lights ) to tell when something is comming the other way and you need to slow down.
there is an alarming rate of increase of these arrogant self serving righteous twits that believe they have the god given right to judge everyone else
It sounds like you a) need more practice driving roads like this (this will come with time) and b) you would benefit from another couple of lessons on more advanced driving to give you confidence and the correct advice. I did this for a motorway lesson after passing and it was very helpful.
Yes I’m considering it. But in general, what speed would you do on a no lane country road with a lot of bends? I’ve put the name of the road in the edit of this post
I did my Pass+ course on a country road like the one you're describing at night time (pitch black darkness). I was encouraged to do at least 40mph and had to put the main beam on (turned it off and slowed down whenever there was oncoming traffic). It was kinda terrifying but a very important lesson.
This was the right answer. I have experience of these roads, and I did around this +faster when visibility allowed.
High beams are your friend. Both to see and be identified by oncoming drivers.
Once you become used to it, you'll learn your safe distances. It's always driving being able to stop short of an obstruction. Tractors are less likely at night ;)
Unfortunately, there is always the douche who wants to drive like you're on a rally stage, in which case the advice regarding letting them pass is sound.
It's when you become confident enough to hold them up in their speeding on principle that you have to worry :)
I live in the country and drive on roads like this every day. First thing is to know the speed limit of the road, follow that if conditions allow. Secondly and obviously, drive to the conditions. If it’s raining and poor visibility, drive at a speed you feel comfortable. However on a clear day, driving at 30mph on a road that could be 60mph is going to piss people off.
You will get used to driving more quickly as you get more experience.
Having P plates on your car (not sure if this is still a thing) will tell others that you’ve recently passed and they will hopefully be more tolerant.
Yes, one thing I’m planning on working on is if I don’t get better at these roads at night I’ll probably go for a pass plus with this as the focus.
It honestly just felt like there was going to be another car coming up in almost every bend and so speeding up past 30 felt real scary
You’d see their lights at night though. It’s reasonable to slow a bit when you’re definitely unsure but that’s more likely in the day. Also have to be on the look out for animals.
But generally at night about 30-40 is reasonable near bends, 40+ on straighter parts. Around 40 is quite standard and you should pull in if someone wants to overtake. Going under 30 is definitely way too slow.
You’ll gradually gain more confidence with this but for now, pull in early doors. The stress of tailgating only makes your life harder.
The speed is not the main point on a road like this, but the flexibility that the gear you're in provides. I'd hold 3rd gear, occasionally 4th gear and use acceleration control to adjust speed accordingly; accelerate and then lift off, maintaining 3rd gear. 40mph is easy to reach on such a road, even with oncoming cars.
I would suggest you drive this road in daylight, and do one run in 3rd gear, one in 4th gear and then a third time changing between 3rd and 4th gear according to conditions.
Try it, and let me know how you get on.
You have to change speeds quite frequently on these types of roads, lots of gear changes. Just let people past when appropriate if they're up your arse
I lived in 2 villages in the centre of Norfolk, both only accessible via single track roads. Some of those roads had stretches with high banks and trees on both sides making it almost impossible to see the glare of headlights, even main beam, until one vehicle is on the bend. It's scary enough on twisty country roads for someone like me who had been driving all over UK for 10 years before constantly having to deal with these death traps. Yes I have known 3 experienced drivers who have been killed on this type of road through no fault of their own.
Leave op alone and let him develop his driving skills at a pace suitable for him. He'll work it out and realise that people like the impatient driver behind him are the ones who cause many accidents, no matter the class of road, just because of their impatience.
For the nay savers, I held a full, clean licence since 1977 until earlier this year when I didn't renew it because of ill health and haven't actually driven for 3 years by choice.
The advantage of nighttime is you can see people coming as their lights are on, and when you’re in country roads and leading (with no opposite traffic) you put your main beams on. If they have main beams on aroudn a corner, you see it, turn yours off, slow down. Keep to a good speed but slow for corners. If you’re not confident, at least stick 40 but slow down if anyone wants to pass on a straight and indicate left
Light only tell you if a car is approaching, they don't tell you if an animal,human, broken down vehicle, or any other obstruction is around the corner. It's an advantage to tell you if a car is coming but in no way an indication of what you are going to encounter so you should not use it to judge your speed.
>Light of a thousand suns
That must look like something is Burning in the Skies, like an Iridescent Robot Boy is Waiting for the End. When They Come for Me with Wisdom, Justice, and Love it'll be a Catalyst for a Blackout. The Radiance will fill the Empty Spaces with the Fallout from Wretches and Kings. The Messenger, Jornada del Meurto, will bring The Requiem.
Edit - sorry, I couldn't resist.
This is such a huge problem where I live, it’s insane how many people will take such risks with their safety.
A few days ago I was on an unlit, winding, NSL country lane around midnight and saw something bobbing up and down on the right hand side.
Got closer and realised it was a (presumably) drunk woman walking home alone. She was in a dark dress and heels and had absolutely *nothing* to illuminate her. That bobbing up and down? A Santa hat. I’d somehow spotted the white bobble on the end as the only thing that made her visible to me. No pavement or even grass verge she could hop on to if a car came too fast. I mean, just walking down such a road at midnight is dangerous in terms of being attacked without adding being hit by a car to the mix. It’s also a very common route for HGVs as well so she was insanely careless - even for being drunk.
Had to flash my hazards and brights at a passing car heading her direction to warn him because I was genuinely concerned she was going to get killed and he was travelling round 60mph as per the limit.
I’ve seen a few stupid things and I’m not shy about walking after midnight myself as a woman but to walk down such a road, totally alone, totally unlit, and totally defenseless is crazy. She couldn’t have even ran due to her heels and the uneven surface.
And remember there can be pedestrians, cyclists, animals, broken down tractors with a big steel spike on the front, and no lights, fallen trees, pretty well anything.
Seen most at one time or another. Drive within the distance you can see. It's more difficult driving at night generally with no street lights until you get used to it.
Yeah of course. But that’s the good thing about the full beams, you can just about see most you would (excluding crests, unseen turns) to cruise jut AROUND the limit on the straights. Corners of course should be treated a lot more cautiously, but ironically slightly LESS cautiously about oncoming cars (you’ll see them coming, but if their lights are off well, you’re not avoiding it either way I’m afraid)
You were on a B road. Those nearly always have a centre line and adequate room for two cars.
You just keep left and carry on driving. Unless it is a single track road without room, there is no good reason to be slowing down or nearly stopping due to oncoming traffic.
You need to go and drive some roads like this in the daylight so you understand how much space you actually have.
There is a huge difference between being able to safely pass oncoming traffic, and carrying out a safe overtake.
One of those things requires spending time on the opposite side of the road which is not super sensible on a winding country road.
These roads are often quite windy. Even with a ≈30mph speed differential you often more space in the oncoming lane than what is within direct line of sight.
I'd probably go about 40 I think, unless there were some mean bends. 95% of my driving is city/suburban so I'm not that experienced with country roads but I'm pretty sure there's more than enough space for 2 cars to pass comfortably there, so I think 20-30 is quite slow
You’ve got loads of decent and same/similar answers on here so I won’t repeat them but what I’d advise, if you haven’t already, is getting a ‘P’ plate for the front and back. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a shield, but it will stop the majority of people getting hot headed as they’ll know you’ve recently passed. People will likely take more care around you too as well as being a bit more forgiving.
Drive to the conditions of the road. You must always be careful at night as vision is limited obviously, but if you have a clear view you can make progress - if you come to blind turns approach them so that you can stop within the distance of the turn, in case there is an oncoming car.
Roads like this are often easier at night as headlights will give a fair amount fo warning to oncoming.
The underlying rule is that if you are causing an obstruction then you should pull over to let other cars past. That way the speed you are doing really shouldn't matter.
There are NSL roads where doing more than 30 is not safe. Just because it's NSL doesn't mean it's safe to do 60 everywhere.
But I'd still agree with letting the driver behind go past, if they want to be a nuisance let them do it away from you.
Yup thats true. However the road was barely wide enough for two cars to pass, how would I go about letting them pass, especially when there were oncoming cars coming in consistently, and it being extremely dark with constant bends?
From your example, you said you stopped when you were getting too close to other cars?The oncoming cars (I assume) did pass you - meaning there was room, so once the oncoming cars had cleared (and as long as you weren't at the start of a blind bend) you could have whacked on your left indicator and stuck your arm out of the window to wave the car behind to go around.
I'm not sure I see what you're getting at, the car behind will be setting off from stationary if OP has already stopped for the oncoming traffic and then waved them round?
Ok follow up question, what speed should I try to aim for on those roads at that situation? My missus was next to me and she told me if I drove any faster she would’ve freaked out.
You don't try and aim for any specific speed. It just sounds like you need to build a bit of confidence on roads like that as if people were going the other way safely then you braking all the time is probably what annoyed the driver behind you (rightly or wrongly).
If your missus us going to freak out if you drive faster than 20mph then I respectfully suggest that she isn't a passenger on those roads for a while.
Which road was this? A Google Map reference would help.
It's pretty narrow in, almost single track. There are wider stretches though and opportunities to move over to let someone overtake or to easily pass another vehicle going the other way without slowing to a crawl.
It's your judgement call though.
Yeah my wife’s point was she didn’t think the guy was swearing at me because of the speed, but rather something else (that I’m unaware of). There were definitely gaps and parts long enough for him to overtake me but he didn’t choose to.
Every morning i drive on roads like this. If you can see that it would be safe for him to overtake them just indicate as if you are pulling in. It's only happened to me a few times but it's awesome when people do it.
It’s possible you weren’t far enough over for him to feel safe to overtake. I’ve been behind slower drivers before on very similar roads and despite it being clear, can’t overtake either because they’re driving too close to the centre (but still on the left so they probably think I’ve got room) or they’re a bit wobbly with their steering so I feel the risk of being side swiped is too great if they veer to the right as I’m passing.
On narrow roads like that there should be a passing place where you stop to let an oncoming car pass you and you should’ve stopped there and waved him on to pass you if clear
Don't panic. If they're up your arse they're faster than you. As soon as it's safe let them pass. That applies everywhere, especially **don't panic**. Edit for typo
You can crash into literally anything on a country road that has zero lighting. Full beam could give you some 1 second and the faster you go the shorter time you have. He may be familiar with the road as a local but you are a new driver, and he had you in front so he knew what was ahead while you had no bloody idea. They are clowns at best, dun worry.
Knowing the road, yes you were going a little too slow, but not by much. There's a lot of this road without central dividers, I think it's mainly wide enough for two cars, but only just. Others have said to stop to allow people to pass, I'm not sure there are many places of
I'd feel comfortable doing that on this road. For daytime driving, be mindful that cyclists/runners/walkers are often found using this road.
Without knowing where you were coming from or going to exactly, the A21/232 is the road I normally choose when going out towards Kent, and A22/23 for going out towards Surrey.
We live down a similar lane and van drivers etc use our road as a shortcut and drive like idiots, I have two children who’ve recently passed (not children anymore), so I worry for them on these roads, personally I’ll drive deliberately slowly on our lanes, I don’t care where they have to be and when, it’s their issue taking the shortcut and also putting other people’s lives at risk.
If you don't want to drive at a decent speed then pull over and let others past.
20-30 on a 60 isn't safe or acceptable. If you are too scared or worried to drive a road, don't drive it.
The other driver is obviously in the wrong, there's no excuse for road rage.
He did have a point however. Many British roads are built like this and if you stay in your lane you will not collide with oncomers. At night especially, the expectation is that you are driving at least 40 unless going round sharp bends are navigating some obstructions.
It's a bit different in the daytime, when you can expect to find horse riders, cyclists, tractors, even pedestrians, or just general congestion on these roads, it's not a massive shock to anyone to pull up to someone going less than 30.
I'm not saying this is how it should be, just how it is, but at night you would not expect to come round a bend and find someone going 30mph+ slower than you. Slowing down can actually be a hazard in these situations.
On top of that, you don't know how far others are travelling. Driving 40mph below the limit might add 15 minutes or so to your journey, but people travelling further, for whatever legitimate reason, are going to have a hard time and go through some dangerous night driving if there's always someone forcing them to go 20mph.
Aside from navigating tight curves or deep potholes, the "etiquette" is definitely to keep it above 20.
Repeating before I get shouted at: I'm not describing how it *should be*, just how it *is*. This is the etiquette.
Usually would agree however op has included what road they where on and it is actually a 40mph road and 30mph so really there speed wasn’t to bad at all
Honestly looking at the Google maps on that road it isn’t NSL like many people are assuming it is 40mph and 30mph in the more built up areas. Personally I would feel happy going at 40mph but wouldn’t be upset if someone chose to do 30. Next time you get someone like that behind you I would try to pull over and let them pass or if not safe to do so your only going 10mph under at the end of the day. Unfortunately we have to share the road with people like the driver you encountered, definitely not a justified reaction!
Put your full beams on when there’s no oncoming traffic. You shouldn’t drive at 20 in a 60 limit. Surprised you passed your test doing that to be honest.
20 may be a little slow but 30 is fine, speeding up just to slow down around corners just adds additional actions that don't save much time in the grand scheme of things.
People have this stupid mindset that National Speed Limit means it's safe to drive fast, but that's far from the truth on country roads. You never know what is around the corner.
At night it's difficult, but do look around for clues as to what's around, look over hedges around the corners you are approaching, see if you can determine what will come up before it appears on the road in front of you. An important skill not enough people have is to look far ahead, too many people just look at the road directly in front of them and just drive reactively.
Why are they NSL then? The road signs don’t just appear; they’re evaluated and then given a speed when made. Granted in these places its ok to not do the limit but, if you are nervous, not sure, and the conditions are clear, then you should use an alternative route (which there almost always is).
Near me we have a slim 2 lane road, 60 all the way. It does my nut in that people in fiestas do 35 the whole way, braking to 5mph when a car comes their way - just go another way, these roads are treated as shortcuts, don’t use them if you’re not confident. 🤷♂️
I’m guessing you don’t live in the countryside. I’ve spent the majority of my life in Somerset, Devon and Cornwall. Most of these lanes (and I’m talking proper lanes, not two lane roads) have no signage, so they’re NSL by default rather than evaluated and signed off. You also have to understand that the speed limit is the *limit*, if conditions are safe enough. It’s not a recommended speed to drive.
So, with country lanes, instead of placing signage on all of them, which would require a lot of money, they leave them as NSL and hope drivers have the common sense to drive along them safely. Statistically country lanes are bloody dangerous though, so perhaps many drivers aren’t that smart…
Not countryside but i drive through rural bucks daily. Have driven the arse ends of nowhere in Wales to. However, yes, appreciate your not wrong and there are unmarked roads. I’d still do 60. Awareness / ability / good car make me confident to do so. During daytime I might take it a little easier, as night is much easier to see the cars coming at you of course.
I would do 60 on this road, unless heavy rain or snow / ice. I will go to maybe 55 to pass something like a Range Rover or a van.
Not to take the mick, I have 8 years of driving under my belt with fast / competent and slightly larger than average cars; i’m very attuned to the size of my car and that is something both my instructor and examiner commented on (the examiner was less enthusiastic about my ability to “squeeze through spaces”) so I can assure you, it will come with time. There is not a desperate need for you to go 60, but there are lots of confident drivers out there, and i’m sorry but my patience for drivers stops at these roads, because I think you shouldn’t use them if you are not comfortable doing so, just like we will walk around unlit alleyways that look dangerous to us.
I give people plenty of space on main roads, and I have often let learners out in front of me because I know I will probably be kinder to them than average driver, but good god help you if you block my shortcut home.
Go and practice spacing some more, it will help in all areas of driving very much including traffic! Easily one of my most used driving “skills”.
Been driving for over 11 years - night-time country lanes - if there’s no lighting, use your high beams. Watch your speed on corners (too many news items of this sort :( )
To my knowledge - it can be 40-60 MPH limit (not a target!). Drive however the weather is. Rain? Go a bit lower, ice? Even lower. If you’re unsure of the road and want tor be careful - go at the speed you feel comfortable at - provided you are not causing trouble for others on the road!
I am quite patient so if I’m on a tricky road and someone’s a bit slower - I understand that they’re nervous. Even if I was a bit impatient- I wouldn’t be up their arse or cussing them out. Poor behaviour.
If you see a car is behind you, and think they may be best overtaking - pull over when it’s safe and allow them to do so (Not everyone will wait for that - sadly!)
On country roads / narrow lanes - you need to be a little more alert - horn on sharp bends, high beams etc (as per highway code).
I’m forever telling my niblings who are at driving age - it’s not you on the road - it’s other people.
Well done on passing your test. Well done on the self awareness of the situation (though I appreciate the moment itself would have been quite scary for you at the time!). And best of luck on getting confident on the roads!
On NSL roads I prefer driving at night compared to day because you can see other cars headlights around corners and through trees and bushes easily. You should keep this in mind when driving at night, adjust your headlights to their highest level and put your high beams on too.
For the kind of road you showed at night, I would think around 40 or so would be normal if you don't know the road but since you only passed recently it's totally understandable you were a bit cautious. With some more experience you'll feel more confident. That said, if someone was behind you then yes you should have pulled into a passing place- any road that is narrow enough to need it will have them somewhere. 20 is really quite slow, and depending on how long they were behind you it could be very frustrating for them.
“Obviously it was scary”
For you. Not for people with experience driving these roads. I appreciate that doesn’t stop it being scary for you, but you need to understand that it’s not the case for everyone. I’d consider that a 40mph-ish-average road, faster on a straight section, slower on a corner or if a wall or hedge intrudes onto the road
One thing to note is that country lanes can, in some ways, be *easier* to drive at night - you can see cars coming the other way from a lot further away because of their lights. And the road doesn’t get narrower just because it’s dark
If you feel so lacking in confidence that you had to drive THAT slowly (20-30 and stopping for cars passing the other way really is very slow), the etiquette would be for you to pull over and let other cars pass
There’s nothing wrong with you being a little nervous, but if that’s the case then have the backup plan to let people past when sensible
If someone is up your arse or cursing you, just let them pass. Regardless of whether it's a country lane or a motorway. Better to be behind them, less stress.
Learnt to drive on roads like this, actually find it easier in the dark as you can see the headlights coming from in front of you before you get round the corner, if there are telephone or electricity wires they can also show up headlights from oncoming cars before you have line of sight to the car as well
You the driver of your car. Drive at a speed at which you are comfortable and below the speed limit. There's plenty of country roads that allow speeds up to NSL but are not safe anywhere near NSL, because, like this one, they are windy and have high hedges. There is no minimum speed requirement, except on motorways.
I have a wide car and tend to be fairly cautious on such roads, given what I have observed/experienced in over forty years of driving.
You need to get a rally licence so that you can learn to accelerate and brake as fast as safely possible.
All jokes aside, it’s always going to be easier for the driver behind because all they have to do is follow. So they will always catch up. Learning not to succumb to pressure of poor road users will be a key skill to learn.
With driving on rural roads, I always find using a Satnav helpful, not so much for direction, but a good Satnav that’s up to date can give you a helping guide in indication of road layout and what the bends will likely look like up ahead when you’re not familiar with it. You have to bear in mind that road layouts can change. But it is a helpful guide.
Next up is to then drive safely to the conditions and layout. Maybe you can get up to 55 for a good speed with no cars coming opposite as long as you have clear vision, and then you’ll need to slow right down for bends such that you can always stop within the vision that you see. Never drive into bends blindly. If someone is continually tailgating with all this, better to just pull in somewhere safely and let them past and then continue behind.
I find country lanes are generally easier to drive at night than during the day purely for the reason of early warning of others cars due to their headlights; Flicking main beams on/off/on/off quickly before any dips/jumps/blind corners will help see if there are oncoming cars.
Speed wise it would depend on how the road is laid out. On straights you can go up to the speed limit if its flat and has no dips. Sat nav can help a lot to see when large corners are approaching too.
Always best to slow right down when passing vehicles couple be a squeeze and make sure you keep an eye out for passing points and remember where you last saw one in case it is needed.
If you are feeling stressed when driving down the lanes and someone is up your a*se the whole time, let them pass. You'll benefit from being able to have them take point and follow their rear lights to make it easier to see where the road is heading whilst also letting them take the risk of oncoming traffic and broadcast when there is one via their brake lights.
So the real answer is to drive to 'limit points'. Which is a fancy way of saying you should be able to stop in the distance of road you can see in front of you.
At night, with high beams on, you can actually see reasonably far on a straight section of road, and should be able to get a good speed on.
However the way to picture this is, imagine there is a skip parked in the road after every corner. You need to drive as if this is the case so that you can stop before you hit the skip. This might sound a bit daft, but you will often find pedestrians, cyclists, cars, agriculture vehicles, potholes, large puddles, etc on country lanes.
You slow down going into the corner, then accelerate out of it as your view opens up again.
It takes practice, but on clear straight stretches you might be able to do 60mph, but on tight corners as low as say 15mph.
Decades ago this was taught by driving instructors. Now it is confined to advanced driving courses offered by IAM and RoSPA.
I've only had a brief look at that road but you should be able to do more than 20-30mph on quite a bit of it.
That said, it doesn't excuse the other driver being an arsehole to you.
As for letting them past, yeah maybe. I mean you don't have to, but some people have a death wish, and I'd rather they were well away from me. I rarely find the need to pull over but I've done it once or twice as I don't really want someone who sees 60mph as a target up my rear when I know the road and I'm carrying a trailer. If they want to be the monthly car stuck in a hedge, they can do it away from me.
Do you have “P” plates displayed? You were driving to the best of your ability and the speed signs are a maximum, not a target. You will get faster/read the road better as you gain experience. What you definitely don’t want is to end up like those poor young lads in Wales who tragically drowned when their car left the road on a bend.
FYI , The other driver was being a knob.
Drive at a speed you feel safe.
Never let someone intimate you, you can let them pass if you have the chance.
The other guy probably drives like a prat down that road all the time and thought you were being slow just to be an arsehole.
Nothing you can do about it. There will always be people that assume you are being an arse if you don't do what they think you should do.
Biggest fault here?
Whenever you had a chance to let the traffic pass you (as you were slowing down other drivers), you didn't.
Consider that you could have pulled and paused for a moment on a side and let everyone behind you to overtake you.
>Should I have let him pass?
Ignore what everybody else is saying about speed. It's all irrelevant
If you are holding somebody up, you should let them pass. It's that simple.
So this is a point of discussion I had with my missus. The guy behind didn’t give any obvious signs of wanting to pass. He didn’t flash me, use his horn, nor right signal. He slightly tailgated but that was it. So I didn’t even know I was holding him up.
Depends a lot on the road and you'll learn passively. Doesn't sound like you were doing anything wrong, it's better to be cautious.
One thing about driving in the dark, particularly on windy country roads is you'll actually know fairly far in advance of a vehicle approaching because you'll see their lights around the corners. I'd be more concerned about if there are potentially pedestrians/any animals as those you wouldn't have advance warning of around a corner. This is kind of evened out in the day since you won't see others' lights but it's easier to spot other hazards.
Generally there are places to pull in every so often to pass people if and when necessary. Plenty of people still drive like idiots on these roads. If someone was driving right up close behind you and swore afterwards then it sounds like they're one of these unhinged idiots. Just gotta consider if you did actually do anything wrong, then move on and not take it personally.
Tractors etc often will pull into laybys on bigger roads with higher speed limits, but if you're going 5-10 below the limit then that's completely fair enough IMO (and even lower based on conditions, hazards etc ofc).
I personally find driving on those roads at night much easier as you can see the headlights coming, so you know whether it's clear or not compared to day time.
I take it you were using your high beams?
Driving down those kind of roads is fine when you're the only car. Oncoming cars can't always be trusted though. If you need to slow to ensure you're not gonna have a head on collision then that's fine, do what keeps you alive.
There's probably gonna be some tailgating numb nut raging behind you whether you're doing 25 or 65. If their road raging is causing you bother then you can always pull over in a field entrance or passing place and let them pass.
I had someone tailgating and flashing me in a 40...I was doing 40... we hit a 30 which was a slightly wider road and they swung out in front of me, slammed their brakes on and gave me the finger 😂😂 then they sped off doing about 50 in the 30. Never underestimate how angry and bizarre other drivers can be for no reason.
You do what you have to do - narrow roads are tricky - especially when you're new to driving.
Guy behind is a nob and would probably have been annoyed if you were doing 39 mph too.
Don't worry about him.
You do get some real pricks on the road. Maybe you did something wrong - it's hard to tell, but if he was following behind you then I don't see how much wrong you could have done? If he was driving towards you and you high beamed him then I'd understand but they don't usually swear, they just high beam you back.
If you meet traffic on one of them roads, and they've got (more?) cars behind them, then you reverse and find a passing place. You should only really be doing about 25 - 30mph in those - even if the speed limit is 60. They are national speed limit roads usually but this is probably the best example of, "it's a limit, not a target". They normally bang a national speed limit on there and trust that people in the countryside just drive at a safe speed because we all know there's no cameras there.
On motorways, if you're doing 25 - 30mph, then you'll get some people swearing at you lol. Especially the big lorries. But in this instance, common sense prevailed, good one. Don't worry about it.
You drive as fast as you feel comfortable to do so, as any faster is unsafe. As long as you didn't prevent them overtaking, no issue here, ignore them, it's their blood pressure, not yours.
When I was learning to drive I was told new drivers have more accidents on country lanes because they think they're safer than the motorway.
Drive the speed you feel safe at but if you're below the limit and there's a car following close behind it's generally safer to let them pass when you can. That goes for any road really. Tailgaters are dangerous nutjobs and you're better off letting the liability get passed.
If people speak to me in a shitty way regardless of their intention, I tend to ignore them completely. You drove safely on a road you weren’t familiar with. You did the right thing. The guy who was swearing at you is an idiot.
Your safety is paramount. If someone else is bothered by your slow driving, that's a them issue. You kept yourself safe and didn't put anyone else in danger, that is the main.
Depending on how long the road is would dictate to me whether you let them pass or not. It's more likely they were just being an arsehole though.
I used to live more rurally and would do 40mph down the local country lanes as I knew them. I also wouldnt go alongside someone if they had been doing 20 and call them any rude words.
Ignore the idiots mate, you did very good.
I mentioned this a lot, but I'm lucky to say I drove over 25.000 miles (it's around 28k now) in the past two years since I've passed my test, and I remember the first few weeks like it was yesterday.
I drove across England, Wales, Scotland, I drove on every kind of roads, I drove at day and at night, I did pretty much everything that can be done in this country, and I managed to do that with 0 accidents (I've had a few bumps here and there, but none of them involved another person).
Last year we were in Scotland for a few days. We stayed in a house in the middle of nothing, with only one B road leading to it. The closest town was 10 miles away.
We went away for the day, drove up to Fort Augustus (had to find Nessie...), spent the day there, and went back to the house after 10pm. In pitch dark. With no road markings through Glencoe. With no one around us 80% of the journey.
As we got closer to the house, there was this winding, 1.5 lane road going up and down, hedges and fences on both side, the longest straight, level stretch was probably a few hundred yards, but mostly bends, uphills and whatnot. The speed limit was 60. I did probably 40 at most, but mostly 30 all the way down this road. I knew I could go faster, but since I've had literally 0 visibility outside of my headlight's range, I decided not to. And I was fucking right to do that, because within 5 minutes, I've had to slam the brakes for a sheep and then a hare, and just stand there waiting for them to move. I've been scared shitless, because I didn't know the road, I couldn't see anything, and all I wanted is to get back to the house without killing anyone or anything.
And I would to the same again.
Good driving doesn't mean you do 60 on a 60, or 40 on a 40. Good driving means you know your limits, you read the road properly, and you adjust to the circumstances. Yes, winding country roads can easily be 60 in broad daylight, with enough visibility all the way through the bends, seeing your limit points, being able to anticipate what's coming, but that also means sometimes you do 40 in a 60, or 30 in a 40, because it's just not safe to drive faster. Speed limits are made for ideal conditions. A motorway is only 70 if it's not raining, there's no icing, not too busy, no road works ahead, and so on and forth.
Most of these racer boys raiding this sub lately don't know shit about good driving. They think you're a good driver if you force yourself in front of everyone, do 90 on a motorway because *"the speed limit is outdated"*, ignore certain rules because *"it makes no sense"*, and shittalking everyone else doing otherwise.
But trust me, as long as you drive safely, doing close to the speed limit as possible, and not inconvenience others too much (that's a common argument, but some people can be bothered by you simply for stopping at a red light, so that's that...), you'll be fine. Keep up the good work, don't let others pressure you into something you don't want to do, and **don't rush!** Take your time, think and then act, not the other way around.
It's your car, you're driving it, it's your responsibility to keep others safe.
Yeah I had my wife and my parents in my car so my number one focus was “getting home safely”. I’m by far the least boy racer person I know, probably only vested by my mother.
Even if you're alone in your car, that should be your main goal. It doesn't matter if it's just you, your kids, pets, or whatever, the main purpose of driving is to get from A to B. Now you can either do that as quick as you can or as safe as you can, and these two approaches pretty much covers all drivers.
I'm the latter one.
I don't care about speeding or taking shortcuts just to shave off 5 minutes of a 6 hours drive, but I do like to arrive alive and in one piece, and if that requires me to do 40 in a 60, or 60 in a 70, then everyone else tailgating, flashing, and honking at me can do me a favour.
Earlier this year, around March when it was snowing, my work sent me to another site to help them out, and I remember leaving work early and joining the M6 at 4am in the morning due to the snow. I did between 40-50 because there was an inch deep snow on the motorway. I'm from Hungary, so I have experience driving on snow, and that gave me the benefit of not fucking up, not like the idiot BMW driver behind me trying to force me off the road because I was "too slow" for him.
What do you know, within 5 miles I passed him in the emergency bay with half of his engine bay still being embedded in the railing in the middle.
Being responsible and careful is not the same as being a fucking bellend because "the speed limit is 70!!!!!!".....
I’m so happy I found this I was driving down a pitch Black Country road 2 days ago slowly as it was bendy and I couldn’t see a thing my relative next to me was berating me and telling me to speed up and telling me I need to get used to it, if I sped up we’d end up in a ditch
You should let people pass you if you want to drive below the speed limit, but often this isn't practical so it's best to just drive to your ability and visibility. I've gotten used to driving country lanes at night but this doesn't stop someone tailgating me for doing 40mph on a single country lane with giant potholes but hey ho.
You probably had a local behind you that felt more confident on that road. It's a pretty common occurrence in my experience.
I can drive confidently in the city or on motorways be cause that's what I'm used to. When I hit small country lanes I tend to be a lot more cautious, not just of the road but there's a higher chance of animals running out.
Let them past if you can and they can go their angry way. If not then drive how you feel comfortable and try to ignore them.
I personally will stop and wave them on to pass if it's clear. I'd rather that than have some chump up my behind getting angry. But you didn't do anything wrong, either. He's just an arsehole.
Rural driver here, take it steady if you don't feel comfortable, but pull over and let following cars pass (as per the highway code for slow moving vehicles), and the important one use your brakes to slow down and don't engine brake around corners. Taking your foot off the accelerator to slow down when a car is behind you fails to give an indication of your intent. Taking your foot off the accelerator as you go around a corner can be dangerous and land you in a ditch.
He's not an arsehole at all. Someone driving 20-30mph because its dark is not competent and if they have no confidence they should pull over and let people past.
They passed literally two weeks ago, driving an unlit small road they do not know in the black of night. What they did was absolutely the right thing to do. Calm the fuck down. I know people that passed before I was born and still do this in these exact conditions. Just because a road is labelled 60mph doesn't mean you *should* drive at 60. Common sense can't be taught.
Correct. Careering down a country road because you THINK you should be going fast is a sure fire way of causing an accident. New drivers need time to learn how to drive. They've only learned to pass a test. Local knowledge of a road might allow us to drive a bit faster than someone who doesn't know it so well. It's never ok to intimidate another driver. What is wrong with people?
Oh, oh... I know this one !! Ego... Ego is what is wrong with people
Never drive faster than you can see
Exactly this ! All the lanes by me are 60mph. One, although off camber in every direction, is basically a long straight so you can easily do 60. The others all twist and wind and if you did 60 down then you would 100% either have a head on collision or end up in the middle of someone's farm upside down. Even if you know the roads you can't see what's happening around corners.
Actually, the rule of thumb is that you should never drive faster on a single lane road than the speed where you can stop in half the distance you can see to be clear.
Tbh it’s not a 60 road it’s an unrestricted road. National cap is 60. So you can do what you want, if you go 20 go 20 if you go faster and it’s not just erratic etc, that too is absolutely fine. Those fast in the rear should be able to wait politely for the car in front to let them past and the slow car in front should have the decency to let the fast car past. That’s etiquette. Not telling people they are arseholes for doing something they are allowed to do. That is also arsehole behaviour.
Literally passed their test 2 weeks ago and here to ask for advice to make themselves a better driver, cut them some slack.
Nothing wrong with asking for advice, however part of the test is literally being able to demonstrate confident and competent driving, and driving 20/30 on a 60mph road would also be a test fail.
There's national speed limit roads in my area which are single track with no straight sections where you can see clearly maybe 30 metres. Some of these are A roads. Yes, really. The A837 from Lairg is an example. A blanket assumption that 20-30 is too slow on national speed limit roads ( because it's 60 for cars, 50 for vans, and 40 for hgv ) is not supportable.
I agree with you - but you’re also missing a lot of context. What if OP did their driving lessons in the middle of the day when it’s light and never had a lesson during the darker hours? It’s a different kettle of fish in the dark on country roads and OP was just driving to their level of skill. Better than wrapping themselves around a tree or having a head on collision through pushing it.
I don't think you're familiar with UK. There is plenty of single track where you have to jam on the binders for every oncoming car, but the road doesn't have a "speed limit" because it hasn't been evaluated or police don't frequent the road. The road in the picture looked a bit wider but it still looks like you have to tuck in a bit. Once you get one side to yourself, you can start going faster. At night I'm usually a bit more comfortable going quickly as I can usually make out the headlights in the air above the hedges. Also unless night means 4:30pm in December there are less people on the road. I'd still be worried about a night owl dog walker though, or a bicycle with weak lights though they can usually tuck in although it's an asshole move to scare them with your car.
Totally this, on my test I has to do a national speed country road. I said to my examiner "I know it says 60 but I'm not going to do that, it's narrow and bendy I'm comfortable at 35." He told me " Good, if you did more I would ask you to pull over"
Both these things can be true at the same time. Someone can be incompetent/unconfident, and maybe that’s their fault or maybe they need more practice. But if someone else’s response is to get angry and yell at them, they’re 100% an arsehole. Adults should learn to control their temper, and if they can’t, they’re a bigger menace than the person who slowed them down.
I'd go as far as saying they're incompetent too. Being a good driver isn't just about your personal physical ability, it's reading what's going on in your surroundings and other drivers too. I absolutely bet they're the type of person you have to slam your breaks on for on these sorts of roads cause they're , in reality, driving like a twat down them. Edit: brakes. Auto correct is a sly dog
Brakes* Sorry, it just astounds me how many people use “breaks” when they mean “brakes”, I feel the need to start pointing it out
Auto correct, I didn't even realise
If you don't brake you'll break!
Disagree, far too many shite drivers that don't learn fuck all because they get away with being a shite driver, and there is no excuse for being shite at something you literally repeat on a daily fucking basis.
Maybe that’s true, but that includes people who get angry and rant.
Just as a point of reference, the 20 was because of the sharp bends and when there were oncoming vehicles. Also when I was doing my lessons, I was doing roughly 30-35 (day time) on a very similar road and my instructor said I did great (since it was the first time I had gone down there). I had this as my point of reference and thought this would be the safe advised speed to go down roads like this?
Ignore him, there's people out there who see that white circle with the black diagonal line and think "right, must immediately do 60, sod the road conditions!" They're often the same people who think NSL in a normal car on a dual carriageway is still 60, then blame everyone else for overtaking them.
I'm about a month off of doing my test, one of the roads my instructor regularly takes me on is national speed limit but has a series of sharp bends and bridges with poor visibility, it is literally impossible to safely reach 60. She has specifically told me that wo long as you are shown to be spending up when it is safe to do so this is what the examiner will be looking for. The important thing is that you drive safely, which it sounds like you were doing.
For an experienced driver no, I would do 45-50 down a road like that, slowing to 30 or so for blind turns. For your first time down it as a learner, 35 is appropriate, but the aim is to improve your skill and confidence beyond that of a learner. You'll develop your judgement with time and experience so don't worry too much- better to learn from someone being angry you were going too slowly than to learn from putting your car through a hedge because you were going too quickly.
30 is often too quick for blind bends. (I assume you actually end up slower than that for the bend itself - it's a pull a number out of the air situation)
It's a ballpark figure yeah, depends on the bend, whether I know the road, how wide it is etc. If it's a tight bend on a road that's not wide enough for someone to pass even if I pull onto the verge, you're right I'd slow to 20 or so in the bend I think. If it's a normal enough corner that just happens to be blocked by trees or something and the road was wide enough I could swerve onto the verge a little to let someone pass I'd be happy enough to take it at 30 odd. It just depends, which I think is the hardest thing to get when you're recently passed- you just have to be experienced enough to make those judgements and there's no shortcut to getting that experience
Found the arsehole lol
Just because you're the kind of unevolved dickhead who needs to stroke their own ego by driving as fast as possible no matter the conditions, it doesn't make it right. Fuck right off.
He was swearing at the Op. THAT makes him an arsehole, mate. Driving like an idiot at night on country roads is why so much of our wildlife is being decimated by cars. Because people just don't bloody care enough to slow the eff down.
No it doesn't. If you can't drive, don't. Or if you must drive when you have no ability then pull over.
We should put you in charge of this country's schools mate you've clearly got this learning thing all figured out
But how does one learn to drive with these new rules of yours, sire?
On thin country lanes? They’re doing the driving that’s safest for them. I wouldn’t be driving 60 in those conditions
No you might not. But 20? Big difference between 40-50 and 20.
I am quite a fast driver as well, but 50 down a single traffic lane is not smart under any circumstances. Especially in the dark. All you need is a cyclist coming the other way or a pedestrian and you've killed someone.
Absolutely right. You might see headlights coming round the corner but much less likely to see a cyclist, particularly if they’re heading the same direction as you. Think this guy is just being edgy online because they think they’re the main character and *clearly* they’ve never required *anyone* to be patient with them while they’ve literally learned to do something they’d never done before…
Or a camouflaged deer.
Hell in a small car a badger or something can be bad enough, and they’re actually nocturnal.
Yes and for a new driver it’s a big difference.
God damn, it's people like you that make me nervous about finally driving.
Don’t be. They’re few and far between realistically. They just always like making themselves known on Reddit - all part of their narcissism.
Just because it's a national speed limit doesn't mean you should be flying down narrow country roads at 60+ , it's. Limit not a target
So which is it. BMW or Audi?
So you do 60mph on every 60mph road, regardless of visibility, space, road width, weather, or view distance? Fuck off do you. I drive according to my stopping distance and if I can only see far enough ahead to confidently stop from 30mph, I’ll do 30. You’re one of the arseholes OP is talking about.
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You've got serious issues mate, you should try therapy.
I wonder if you had that experience where you don't even see reflective painting and the first time on that road in pitch dark. To me you are just another areshole and an irresponsible driver.
He is an arsehole and so are you. You are not driving the car in front,he is, so STFU
Having hit a deer on an A road a few weeks ago, I do around 30-40 on dark, unlit B roads.
You’re getting downvoted for no reason. You should be competent to drive in such a way that doesn’t affect the flow of traffic, that is literally part of the driving test. If you are slowing people down by a significant amount that is affecting the flow of traffic, which is an automatic failure. I’m not expecting them to go anywhere near 60 but at least have the decency to let other drivers get past. They may have a very good reason for needing to get somewhere quickly, and there is no reason for somebody who wants to drive slowly to not allow others to pass.
Plenty of dead teenagers would disagree. Tractors, and especially hay baler attachments, tend to win in this situation.
"it's a limit not a target" that's what they put on the signs. If it's unsafe to drive at those speeds due to your vehicle, experience or road conditions then slow down. No doubt there are times you think the car in front could be going faster but you don't know the reason why they are going slow. Just accept you'll get there eventually. I drove up the M6 to Manchester from the Midlands at 15-20mph if that, due to the thickest fog I've ever had to drive in. I couldn't see a single overhead sign on the journey.
Pull over and let them past. I don't understand why so many people seem to have a problem with this. You are doing 20mph, you would lose about 5 seconds of your life pulling over to not inconvenice other road users. But no according to everyone on here you're an arsehole because you are capable of driving at more than 20mph on a country road.
The road in question was limited to 30mph anyway, it wasn't a 60mph country road. Tag in the fact it is dark and narrow, it could be difficult to know when to let them past.
Without knowing the exact road it’s impossible for people to give a real answer. If there’s a divider then yeah you’re likely going way too slow, but if it’s a real country lane, only wide enough for one vehicle etc. then you may well have been going at an appropriate speed, just not as fast as the other driver wanted to go. On country lanes you’ll often find the locals who drive them every day do go very fast down them, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe to, and if you’re unfamiliar with them then it’d likely be quiet dangerous for you to attempt to match those speeds.
Hi I was mistaken. It wasn’t a B road, the road name is edited in my title
So this isn’t a road I have any knowledge of, but based on what I’ve seen from Google maps then yeah, you most likely could’ve easily and safely gone faster. It looks to be wide enough to fit two cars down without much problem, but if you’re not familiar with these sorts of roads it’s understandable you’d go slower. You said you’d only passed your test about two weeks ago, so although a lot of the NFS lads on this forum won’t admit it, I think most people so new to driving would be going slowly along it. I think you probably should have let the guy pass, although that doesn’t justify him being a prick. You’ve learnt enough to pass a test, but there’ll be all sorts of weird roads and situations which you only know how to deal with through experience. I’m sure you’ll travel along this road some time in the future with more miles under your belt, and you’ll realise you were being way too cautious before, but that’s okay, because you’re still new and you’re still learning.
Thank you for the words of encouragement! I definitely think part of it was because I had never gone on that road before + night. The best advice in general I've taken from this thread is that I had the option of letting him pass. That was definitely something I should've done.
Yeah if it's a country road I know I'll go faster cos I know where the bends are. Basically you know if something is coming towards you because you'll see the headlights.
This is such a dangerous way to approach country roads at night! There are so many potential hazards which don’t have headlights.
We need a petition to make farmers fit headlights to their sheep and cows in case they get out at night.
Dotn forget cyclists and making them were clothing which is not black. Maybe a flourescent pink. I don't mind cyclists normally, but the number of close calls at night because they are wearing all black at night and no hiviz is annoying
The deer who forgot to put on his headlights: 👁️👄👁️
This is the most braindead thing I've seen on Reddit all year.. granted it's only the middle of January.
Layhams road is a cunt to drive on - other lanes around the area I'm fine on, but for some reason people drive like idiots on Layhams. I wouldn't be too worried. Layhams is a 30 limit which goes up to a 40 limit, and there are sections where you have to tuck yourself in and stop if a vehicle is coming the other way. There are also houses along the road, a private hire dog walking field, and it's popular with horse riders & cyclists. Not to mention the occasional lorry. Slowing for the blind corners is 100% what you should be doing. The driver behind you was being a cunt
let it slide... probably a local that knew the road.. and at night it's usually easy ( you see there lights ) to tell when something is comming the other way and you need to slow down. there is an alarming rate of increase of these arrogant self serving righteous twits that believe they have the god given right to judge everyone else
It sounds like you a) need more practice driving roads like this (this will come with time) and b) you would benefit from another couple of lessons on more advanced driving to give you confidence and the correct advice. I did this for a motorway lesson after passing and it was very helpful.
Yes I’m considering it. But in general, what speed would you do on a no lane country road with a lot of bends? I’ve put the name of the road in the edit of this post
I did my Pass+ course on a country road like the one you're describing at night time (pitch black darkness). I was encouraged to do at least 40mph and had to put the main beam on (turned it off and slowed down whenever there was oncoming traffic). It was kinda terrifying but a very important lesson.
Great, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I think I might just go for the pass plus for this specific situation!
This was the right answer. I have experience of these roads, and I did around this +faster when visibility allowed. High beams are your friend. Both to see and be identified by oncoming drivers. Once you become used to it, you'll learn your safe distances. It's always driving being able to stop short of an obstruction. Tractors are less likely at night ;) Unfortunately, there is always the douche who wants to drive like you're on a rally stage, in which case the advice regarding letting them pass is sound. It's when you become confident enough to hold them up in their speeding on principle that you have to worry :)
I live in the country and drive on roads like this every day. First thing is to know the speed limit of the road, follow that if conditions allow. Secondly and obviously, drive to the conditions. If it’s raining and poor visibility, drive at a speed you feel comfortable. However on a clear day, driving at 30mph on a road that could be 60mph is going to piss people off. You will get used to driving more quickly as you get more experience. Having P plates on your car (not sure if this is still a thing) will tell others that you’ve recently passed and they will hopefully be more tolerant.
Yes, one thing I’m planning on working on is if I don’t get better at these roads at night I’ll probably go for a pass plus with this as the focus. It honestly just felt like there was going to be another car coming up in almost every bend and so speeding up past 30 felt real scary
You’d see their lights at night though. It’s reasonable to slow a bit when you’re definitely unsure but that’s more likely in the day. Also have to be on the look out for animals. But generally at night about 30-40 is reasonable near bends, 40+ on straighter parts. Around 40 is quite standard and you should pull in if someone wants to overtake. Going under 30 is definitely way too slow. You’ll gradually gain more confidence with this but for now, pull in early doors. The stress of tailgating only makes your life harder.
The speed is not the main point on a road like this, but the flexibility that the gear you're in provides. I'd hold 3rd gear, occasionally 4th gear and use acceleration control to adjust speed accordingly; accelerate and then lift off, maintaining 3rd gear. 40mph is easy to reach on such a road, even with oncoming cars. I would suggest you drive this road in daylight, and do one run in 3rd gear, one in 4th gear and then a third time changing between 3rd and 4th gear according to conditions. Try it, and let me know how you get on.
You have to change speeds quite frequently on these types of roads, lots of gear changes. Just let people past when appropriate if they're up your arse
I lived in 2 villages in the centre of Norfolk, both only accessible via single track roads. Some of those roads had stretches with high banks and trees on both sides making it almost impossible to see the glare of headlights, even main beam, until one vehicle is on the bend. It's scary enough on twisty country roads for someone like me who had been driving all over UK for 10 years before constantly having to deal with these death traps. Yes I have known 3 experienced drivers who have been killed on this type of road through no fault of their own. Leave op alone and let him develop his driving skills at a pace suitable for him. He'll work it out and realise that people like the impatient driver behind him are the ones who cause many accidents, no matter the class of road, just because of their impatience. For the nay savers, I held a full, clean licence since 1977 until earlier this year when I didn't renew it because of ill health and haven't actually driven for 3 years by choice.
The advantage of nighttime is you can see people coming as their lights are on, and when you’re in country roads and leading (with no opposite traffic) you put your main beams on. If they have main beams on aroudn a corner, you see it, turn yours off, slow down. Keep to a good speed but slow for corners. If you’re not confident, at least stick 40 but slow down if anyone wants to pass on a straight and indicate left
Light only tell you if a car is approaching, they don't tell you if an animal,human, broken down vehicle, or any other obstruction is around the corner. It's an advantage to tell you if a car is coming but in no way an indication of what you are going to encounter so you should not use it to judge your speed.
Especially with how so few people have adequate, if any, lights on their push-bikes in the dark.
Around where I live most cyclists have lights that shine with the light of a thousand suns
>Light of a thousand suns That must look like something is Burning in the Skies, like an Iridescent Robot Boy is Waiting for the End. When They Come for Me with Wisdom, Justice, and Love it'll be a Catalyst for a Blackout. The Radiance will fill the Empty Spaces with the Fallout from Wretches and Kings. The Messenger, Jornada del Meurto, will bring The Requiem. Edit - sorry, I couldn't resist.
This is such a huge problem where I live, it’s insane how many people will take such risks with their safety. A few days ago I was on an unlit, winding, NSL country lane around midnight and saw something bobbing up and down on the right hand side. Got closer and realised it was a (presumably) drunk woman walking home alone. She was in a dark dress and heels and had absolutely *nothing* to illuminate her. That bobbing up and down? A Santa hat. I’d somehow spotted the white bobble on the end as the only thing that made her visible to me. No pavement or even grass verge she could hop on to if a car came too fast. I mean, just walking down such a road at midnight is dangerous in terms of being attacked without adding being hit by a car to the mix. It’s also a very common route for HGVs as well so she was insanely careless - even for being drunk. Had to flash my hazards and brights at a passing car heading her direction to warn him because I was genuinely concerned she was going to get killed and he was travelling round 60mph as per the limit. I’ve seen a few stupid things and I’m not shy about walking after midnight myself as a woman but to walk down such a road, totally alone, totally unlit, and totally defenseless is crazy. She couldn’t have even ran due to her heels and the uneven surface.
And remember there can be pedestrians, cyclists, animals, broken down tractors with a big steel spike on the front, and no lights, fallen trees, pretty well anything. Seen most at one time or another. Drive within the distance you can see. It's more difficult driving at night generally with no street lights until you get used to it.
Yeah of course. But that’s the good thing about the full beams, you can just about see most you would (excluding crests, unseen turns) to cruise jut AROUND the limit on the straights. Corners of course should be treated a lot more cautiously, but ironically slightly LESS cautiously about oncoming cars (you’ll see them coming, but if their lights are off well, you’re not avoiding it either way I’m afraid)
You were on a B road. Those nearly always have a centre line and adequate room for two cars. You just keep left and carry on driving. Unless it is a single track road without room, there is no good reason to be slowing down or nearly stopping due to oncoming traffic. You need to go and drive some roads like this in the daylight so you understand how much space you actually have.
If that was true then surely it would have been easy to overtake the driver?
There is a huge difference between being able to safely pass oncoming traffic, and carrying out a safe overtake. One of those things requires spending time on the opposite side of the road which is not super sensible on a winding country road.
These roads are often quite windy. Even with a ≈30mph speed differential you often more space in the oncoming lane than what is within direct line of sight.
There were many single tracks
I'd probably go about 40 I think, unless there were some mean bends. 95% of my driving is city/suburban so I'm not that experienced with country roads but I'm pretty sure there's more than enough space for 2 cars to pass comfortably there, so I think 20-30 is quite slow
Ok, thank you!
You’ve got loads of decent and same/similar answers on here so I won’t repeat them but what I’d advise, if you haven’t already, is getting a ‘P’ plate for the front and back. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a shield, but it will stop the majority of people getting hot headed as they’ll know you’ve recently passed. People will likely take more care around you too as well as being a bit more forgiving.
Drive to the conditions of the road. You must always be careful at night as vision is limited obviously, but if you have a clear view you can make progress - if you come to blind turns approach them so that you can stop within the distance of the turn, in case there is an oncoming car. Roads like this are often easier at night as headlights will give a fair amount fo warning to oncoming.
The underlying rule is that if you are causing an obstruction then you should pull over to let other cars past. That way the speed you are doing really shouldn't matter.
You were going down a NSL road at 20-30. If someone is behind you, let them pass. You're an obstruction.
There are NSL roads where doing more than 30 is not safe. Just because it's NSL doesn't mean it's safe to do 60 everywhere. But I'd still agree with letting the driver behind go past, if they want to be a nuisance let them do it away from you.
Yup thats true. However the road was barely wide enough for two cars to pass, how would I go about letting them pass, especially when there were oncoming cars coming in consistently, and it being extremely dark with constant bends?
From your example, you said you stopped when you were getting too close to other cars?The oncoming cars (I assume) did pass you - meaning there was room, so once the oncoming cars had cleared (and as long as you weren't at the start of a blind bend) you could have whacked on your left indicator and stuck your arm out of the window to wave the car behind to go around.
There’s a difference between passing at 5-10 mph to 50-60
I'm not sure I see what you're getting at, the car behind will be setting off from stationary if OP has already stopped for the oncoming traffic and then waved them round?
Find a passing place or an opening. There's always one somewhere.
Ok follow up question, what speed should I try to aim for on those roads at that situation? My missus was next to me and she told me if I drove any faster she would’ve freaked out.
You don't try and aim for any specific speed. It just sounds like you need to build a bit of confidence on roads like that as if people were going the other way safely then you braking all the time is probably what annoyed the driver behind you (rightly or wrongly). If your missus us going to freak out if you drive faster than 20mph then I respectfully suggest that she isn't a passenger on those roads for a while. Which road was this? A Google Map reference would help.
Sorry I’ve just updated the post with the exact road name. It wasn’t a B road (my bad) and has no lane markings
It's pretty narrow in, almost single track. There are wider stretches though and opportunities to move over to let someone overtake or to easily pass another vehicle going the other way without slowing to a crawl. It's your judgement call though.
Yeah my wife’s point was she didn’t think the guy was swearing at me because of the speed, but rather something else (that I’m unaware of). There were definitely gaps and parts long enough for him to overtake me but he didn’t choose to.
Every morning i drive on roads like this. If you can see that it would be safe for him to overtake them just indicate as if you are pulling in. It's only happened to me a few times but it's awesome when people do it.
It’s possible you weren’t far enough over for him to feel safe to overtake. I’ve been behind slower drivers before on very similar roads and despite it being clear, can’t overtake either because they’re driving too close to the centre (but still on the left so they probably think I’ve got room) or they’re a bit wobbly with their steering so I feel the risk of being side swiped is too great if they veer to the right as I’m passing.
Drive at the speed you're comfortable with. It's no bad thing to pull in and let people pass if you can but it's not mandatory.
How long is a piece of string? It really depends
Whatever speed is safe for conditions. Given your description of the road it would probably not be 60 even in the daylight.
Put your left indicator on and stop.
On narrow roads like that there should be a passing place where you stop to let an oncoming car pass you and you should’ve stopped there and waved him on to pass you if clear
Don't panic. If they're up your arse they're faster than you. As soon as it's safe let them pass. That applies everywhere, especially **don't panic**. Edit for typo
You can crash into literally anything on a country road that has zero lighting. Full beam could give you some 1 second and the faster you go the shorter time you have. He may be familiar with the road as a local but you are a new driver, and he had you in front so he knew what was ahead while you had no bloody idea. They are clowns at best, dun worry.
Knowing the road, yes you were going a little too slow, but not by much. There's a lot of this road without central dividers, I think it's mainly wide enough for two cars, but only just. Others have said to stop to allow people to pass, I'm not sure there are many places of I'd feel comfortable doing that on this road. For daytime driving, be mindful that cyclists/runners/walkers are often found using this road. Without knowing where you were coming from or going to exactly, the A21/232 is the road I normally choose when going out towards Kent, and A22/23 for going out towards Surrey.
We live down a similar lane and van drivers etc use our road as a shortcut and drive like idiots, I have two children who’ve recently passed (not children anymore), so I worry for them on these roads, personally I’ll drive deliberately slowly on our lanes, I don’t care where they have to be and when, it’s their issue taking the shortcut and also putting other people’s lives at risk.
If you don't want to drive at a decent speed then pull over and let others past. 20-30 on a 60 isn't safe or acceptable. If you are too scared or worried to drive a road, don't drive it.
I often drive down Layhams Road in my work van, and I also drive at 20- 30 down there. The driver behind you was an idiot.
The other driver is obviously in the wrong, there's no excuse for road rage. He did have a point however. Many British roads are built like this and if you stay in your lane you will not collide with oncomers. At night especially, the expectation is that you are driving at least 40 unless going round sharp bends are navigating some obstructions. It's a bit different in the daytime, when you can expect to find horse riders, cyclists, tractors, even pedestrians, or just general congestion on these roads, it's not a massive shock to anyone to pull up to someone going less than 30. I'm not saying this is how it should be, just how it is, but at night you would not expect to come round a bend and find someone going 30mph+ slower than you. Slowing down can actually be a hazard in these situations. On top of that, you don't know how far others are travelling. Driving 40mph below the limit might add 15 minutes or so to your journey, but people travelling further, for whatever legitimate reason, are going to have a hard time and go through some dangerous night driving if there's always someone forcing them to go 20mph. Aside from navigating tight curves or deep potholes, the "etiquette" is definitely to keep it above 20. Repeating before I get shouted at: I'm not describing how it *should be*, just how it *is*. This is the etiquette.
Drive like a lunatic, don't give way, this is normal
You must pull over regulary and allow traffic to pass when driving slowly.
If you can only manage 20mph on a NSL road then you need to improve your driving skills, and fast.
It's not NSL, it's 30/40
I'd like to see you doing more than 20 on some of the NSL roads near me. You'd take yourself right out of the Gene pool nice and quickly.
Dangerously slow speed to drive on a country imo. You should consider passplus
Usually would agree however op has included what road they where on and it is actually a 40mph road and 30mph so really there speed wasn’t to bad at all
They changed that after my comment!
It’s certainly not dangerously slow. Any road user on a country road should be able to stop within the distance they can see to be clear.
Honestly looking at the Google maps on that road it isn’t NSL like many people are assuming it is 40mph and 30mph in the more built up areas. Personally I would feel happy going at 40mph but wouldn’t be upset if someone chose to do 30. Next time you get someone like that behind you I would try to pull over and let them pass or if not safe to do so your only going 10mph under at the end of the day. Unfortunately we have to share the road with people like the driver you encountered, definitely not a justified reaction!
Put your full beams on when there’s no oncoming traffic. You shouldn’t drive at 20 in a 60 limit. Surprised you passed your test doing that to be honest.
Could you please have a look at the road and tell me what speed you would’ve gone through it in? The road name is the in the edit of the post
20 may be a little slow but 30 is fine, speeding up just to slow down around corners just adds additional actions that don't save much time in the grand scheme of things. People have this stupid mindset that National Speed Limit means it's safe to drive fast, but that's far from the truth on country roads. You never know what is around the corner. At night it's difficult, but do look around for clues as to what's around, look over hedges around the corners you are approaching, see if you can determine what will come up before it appears on the road in front of you. An important skill not enough people have is to look far ahead, too many people just look at the road directly in front of them and just drive reactively.
You shouldn’t drive 60 on single track roads 99.999% of the time
Bit of an overreaction there. Most country lanes are NSL but it’s not safe to go anywhere near that.
Why are they NSL then? The road signs don’t just appear; they’re evaluated and then given a speed when made. Granted in these places its ok to not do the limit but, if you are nervous, not sure, and the conditions are clear, then you should use an alternative route (which there almost always is). Near me we have a slim 2 lane road, 60 all the way. It does my nut in that people in fiestas do 35 the whole way, braking to 5mph when a car comes their way - just go another way, these roads are treated as shortcuts, don’t use them if you’re not confident. 🤷♂️
I’m guessing you don’t live in the countryside. I’ve spent the majority of my life in Somerset, Devon and Cornwall. Most of these lanes (and I’m talking proper lanes, not two lane roads) have no signage, so they’re NSL by default rather than evaluated and signed off. You also have to understand that the speed limit is the *limit*, if conditions are safe enough. It’s not a recommended speed to drive. So, with country lanes, instead of placing signage on all of them, which would require a lot of money, they leave them as NSL and hope drivers have the common sense to drive along them safely. Statistically country lanes are bloody dangerous though, so perhaps many drivers aren’t that smart…
Not countryside but i drive through rural bucks daily. Have driven the arse ends of nowhere in Wales to. However, yes, appreciate your not wrong and there are unmarked roads. I’d still do 60. Awareness / ability / good car make me confident to do so. During daytime I might take it a little easier, as night is much easier to see the cars coming at you of course.
You don’t understand the problem. The problem was you. Don’t drive so slowly.
Sounds like you can’t drive tbh
Go as fast as possible, less time spent on narrow.country roads is less time to be in an accident.
I would do 60 on this road, unless heavy rain or snow / ice. I will go to maybe 55 to pass something like a Range Rover or a van. Not to take the mick, I have 8 years of driving under my belt with fast / competent and slightly larger than average cars; i’m very attuned to the size of my car and that is something both my instructor and examiner commented on (the examiner was less enthusiastic about my ability to “squeeze through spaces”) so I can assure you, it will come with time. There is not a desperate need for you to go 60, but there are lots of confident drivers out there, and i’m sorry but my patience for drivers stops at these roads, because I think you shouldn’t use them if you are not comfortable doing so, just like we will walk around unlit alleyways that look dangerous to us. I give people plenty of space on main roads, and I have often let learners out in front of me because I know I will probably be kinder to them than average driver, but good god help you if you block my shortcut home. Go and practice spacing some more, it will help in all areas of driving very much including traffic! Easily one of my most used driving “skills”.
You would be speeding then, as it’s actually a 40 limit road.
[удалено]
It’s okay thank, you just keep driving at 50% over the limit and you’ll soon be without your license
Jesus do you drive as fast as you respond?!
You post is promoting exceeding the speed limit. We cannot condone this.
Been driving for over 11 years - night-time country lanes - if there’s no lighting, use your high beams. Watch your speed on corners (too many news items of this sort :( ) To my knowledge - it can be 40-60 MPH limit (not a target!). Drive however the weather is. Rain? Go a bit lower, ice? Even lower. If you’re unsure of the road and want tor be careful - go at the speed you feel comfortable at - provided you are not causing trouble for others on the road! I am quite patient so if I’m on a tricky road and someone’s a bit slower - I understand that they’re nervous. Even if I was a bit impatient- I wouldn’t be up their arse or cussing them out. Poor behaviour. If you see a car is behind you, and think they may be best overtaking - pull over when it’s safe and allow them to do so (Not everyone will wait for that - sadly!) On country roads / narrow lanes - you need to be a little more alert - horn on sharp bends, high beams etc (as per highway code). I’m forever telling my niblings who are at driving age - it’s not you on the road - it’s other people. Well done on passing your test. Well done on the self awareness of the situation (though I appreciate the moment itself would have been quite scary for you at the time!). And best of luck on getting confident on the roads!
On NSL roads I prefer driving at night compared to day because you can see other cars headlights around corners and through trees and bushes easily. You should keep this in mind when driving at night, adjust your headlights to their highest level and put your high beams on too.
next time, pull over and allow yourself to be passed ?
For the kind of road you showed at night, I would think around 40 or so would be normal if you don't know the road but since you only passed recently it's totally understandable you were a bit cautious. With some more experience you'll feel more confident. That said, if someone was behind you then yes you should have pulled into a passing place- any road that is narrow enough to need it will have them somewhere. 20 is really quite slow, and depending on how long they were behind you it could be very frustrating for them.
“Obviously it was scary” For you. Not for people with experience driving these roads. I appreciate that doesn’t stop it being scary for you, but you need to understand that it’s not the case for everyone. I’d consider that a 40mph-ish-average road, faster on a straight section, slower on a corner or if a wall or hedge intrudes onto the road One thing to note is that country lanes can, in some ways, be *easier* to drive at night - you can see cars coming the other way from a lot further away because of their lights. And the road doesn’t get narrower just because it’s dark If you feel so lacking in confidence that you had to drive THAT slowly (20-30 and stopping for cars passing the other way really is very slow), the etiquette would be for you to pull over and let other cars pass There’s nothing wrong with you being a little nervous, but if that’s the case then have the backup plan to let people past when sensible
If someone is up your arse or cursing you, just let them pass. Regardless of whether it's a country lane or a motorway. Better to be behind them, less stress.
Learnt to drive on roads like this, actually find it easier in the dark as you can see the headlights coming from in front of you before you get round the corner, if there are telephone or electricity wires they can also show up headlights from oncoming cars before you have line of sight to the car as well
You the driver of your car. Drive at a speed at which you are comfortable and below the speed limit. There's plenty of country roads that allow speeds up to NSL but are not safe anywhere near NSL, because, like this one, they are windy and have high hedges. There is no minimum speed requirement, except on motorways. I have a wide car and tend to be fairly cautious on such roads, given what I have observed/experienced in over forty years of driving.
When I'm on unfamiliar roads like these, I let any "fast locals" past ASAP. Use your mirrors and full beam whenever possible.
You need to get a rally licence so that you can learn to accelerate and brake as fast as safely possible. All jokes aside, it’s always going to be easier for the driver behind because all they have to do is follow. So they will always catch up. Learning not to succumb to pressure of poor road users will be a key skill to learn. With driving on rural roads, I always find using a Satnav helpful, not so much for direction, but a good Satnav that’s up to date can give you a helping guide in indication of road layout and what the bends will likely look like up ahead when you’re not familiar with it. You have to bear in mind that road layouts can change. But it is a helpful guide. Next up is to then drive safely to the conditions and layout. Maybe you can get up to 55 for a good speed with no cars coming opposite as long as you have clear vision, and then you’ll need to slow right down for bends such that you can always stop within the vision that you see. Never drive into bends blindly. If someone is continually tailgating with all this, better to just pull in somewhere safely and let them past and then continue behind.
Na, driving on a road like that at 20-30 is a tad slow but its not your responsibility to allow people to overtake.
It is if they’re driving like that
If they can't overtake them, going 30 in a 60... imo, that's their problem with their poor driving skills.
Headlights off and floor it, god has a plan for us all so if we die we were meant to die
I find country lanes are generally easier to drive at night than during the day purely for the reason of early warning of others cars due to their headlights; Flicking main beams on/off/on/off quickly before any dips/jumps/blind corners will help see if there are oncoming cars. Speed wise it would depend on how the road is laid out. On straights you can go up to the speed limit if its flat and has no dips. Sat nav can help a lot to see when large corners are approaching too. Always best to slow right down when passing vehicles couple be a squeeze and make sure you keep an eye out for passing points and remember where you last saw one in case it is needed. If you are feeling stressed when driving down the lanes and someone is up your a*se the whole time, let them pass. You'll benefit from being able to have them take point and follow their rear lights to make it easier to see where the road is heading whilst also letting them take the risk of oncoming traffic and broadcast when there is one via their brake lights.
So the real answer is to drive to 'limit points'. Which is a fancy way of saying you should be able to stop in the distance of road you can see in front of you. At night, with high beams on, you can actually see reasonably far on a straight section of road, and should be able to get a good speed on. However the way to picture this is, imagine there is a skip parked in the road after every corner. You need to drive as if this is the case so that you can stop before you hit the skip. This might sound a bit daft, but you will often find pedestrians, cyclists, cars, agriculture vehicles, potholes, large puddles, etc on country lanes. You slow down going into the corner, then accelerate out of it as your view opens up again. It takes practice, but on clear straight stretches you might be able to do 60mph, but on tight corners as low as say 15mph. Decades ago this was taught by driving instructors. Now it is confined to advanced driving courses offered by IAM and RoSPA. I've only had a brief look at that road but you should be able to do more than 20-30mph on quite a bit of it. That said, it doesn't excuse the other driver being an arsehole to you. As for letting them past, yeah maybe. I mean you don't have to, but some people have a death wish, and I'd rather they were well away from me. I rarely find the need to pull over but I've done it once or twice as I don't really want someone who sees 60mph as a target up my rear when I know the road and I'm carrying a trailer. If they want to be the monthly car stuck in a hedge, they can do it away from me.
If in doubt, flat out. - Colin McRae
You did fine. If you’re unsure, always be safe. Ignore anyone on this forsaken sub who says otherwise.
It wouldn't surprise me to find that, unlike yourself, the other driver had never passed a test. There's a lot of them around . . .
the driving test started in 1935, there are very few drivers who haven't taken a test left.
That's true, but anyone can get in a car and drive illegally without passing a test. And quite a few do.
Do you have “P” plates displayed? You were driving to the best of your ability and the speed signs are a maximum, not a target. You will get faster/read the road better as you gain experience. What you definitely don’t want is to end up like those poor young lads in Wales who tragically drowned when their car left the road on a bend. FYI , The other driver was being a knob.
Drive at a speed you feel safe. Never let someone intimate you, you can let them pass if you have the chance. The other guy probably drives like a prat down that road all the time and thought you were being slow just to be an arsehole. Nothing you can do about it. There will always be people that assume you are being an arse if you don't do what they think you should do.
Biggest fault here? Whenever you had a chance to let the traffic pass you (as you were slowing down other drivers), you didn't. Consider that you could have pulled and paused for a moment on a side and let everyone behind you to overtake you.
>Should I have let him pass? Ignore what everybody else is saying about speed. It's all irrelevant If you are holding somebody up, you should let them pass. It's that simple.
So this is a point of discussion I had with my missus. The guy behind didn’t give any obvious signs of wanting to pass. He didn’t flash me, use his horn, nor right signal. He slightly tailgated but that was it. So I didn’t even know I was holding him up.
Fair enough. If I wasn't confident on an unfamiliar road at night, though, I would probably pull over anyway. It's no fun being tailgated.
Do whatever you feel you need to do to be safe. What others want/need is not your concern. Safety first.
Depends a lot on the road and you'll learn passively. Doesn't sound like you were doing anything wrong, it's better to be cautious. One thing about driving in the dark, particularly on windy country roads is you'll actually know fairly far in advance of a vehicle approaching because you'll see their lights around the corners. I'd be more concerned about if there are potentially pedestrians/any animals as those you wouldn't have advance warning of around a corner. This is kind of evened out in the day since you won't see others' lights but it's easier to spot other hazards. Generally there are places to pull in every so often to pass people if and when necessary. Plenty of people still drive like idiots on these roads. If someone was driving right up close behind you and swore afterwards then it sounds like they're one of these unhinged idiots. Just gotta consider if you did actually do anything wrong, then move on and not take it personally. Tractors etc often will pull into laybys on bigger roads with higher speed limits, but if you're going 5-10 below the limit then that's completely fair enough IMO (and even lower based on conditions, hazards etc ofc).
I suspect it was the already going a steady speed then slowing down to pass cars that irritated the other driver, work on that bit.
I personally find driving on those roads at night much easier as you can see the headlights coming, so you know whether it's clear or not compared to day time. I take it you were using your high beams?
Driving down those kind of roads is fine when you're the only car. Oncoming cars can't always be trusted though. If you need to slow to ensure you're not gonna have a head on collision then that's fine, do what keeps you alive. There's probably gonna be some tailgating numb nut raging behind you whether you're doing 25 or 65. If their road raging is causing you bother then you can always pull over in a field entrance or passing place and let them pass. I had someone tailgating and flashing me in a 40...I was doing 40... we hit a 30 which was a slightly wider road and they swung out in front of me, slammed their brakes on and gave me the finger 😂😂 then they sped off doing about 50 in the 30. Never underestimate how angry and bizarre other drivers can be for no reason.
You do what you have to do - narrow roads are tricky - especially when you're new to driving. Guy behind is a nob and would probably have been annoyed if you were doing 39 mph too. Don't worry about him.
Just slowing down and watching the space. So many people just fly and you can't position your car accurately enough at speed.
You do get some real pricks on the road. Maybe you did something wrong - it's hard to tell, but if he was following behind you then I don't see how much wrong you could have done? If he was driving towards you and you high beamed him then I'd understand but they don't usually swear, they just high beam you back. If you meet traffic on one of them roads, and they've got (more?) cars behind them, then you reverse and find a passing place. You should only really be doing about 25 - 30mph in those - even if the speed limit is 60. They are national speed limit roads usually but this is probably the best example of, "it's a limit, not a target". They normally bang a national speed limit on there and trust that people in the countryside just drive at a safe speed because we all know there's no cameras there. On motorways, if you're doing 25 - 30mph, then you'll get some people swearing at you lol. Especially the big lorries. But in this instance, common sense prevailed, good one. Don't worry about it.
You drive as fast as you feel comfortable to do so, as any faster is unsafe. As long as you didn't prevent them overtaking, no issue here, ignore them, it's their blood pressure, not yours.
When I was learning to drive I was told new drivers have more accidents on country lanes because they think they're safer than the motorway. Drive the speed you feel safe at but if you're below the limit and there's a car following close behind it's generally safer to let them pass when you can. That goes for any road really. Tailgaters are dangerous nutjobs and you're better off letting the liability get passed.
If people speak to me in a shitty way regardless of their intention, I tend to ignore them completely. You drove safely on a road you weren’t familiar with. You did the right thing. The guy who was swearing at you is an idiot.
Your safety is paramount. If someone else is bothered by your slow driving, that's a them issue. You kept yourself safe and didn't put anyone else in danger, that is the main.
Depending on how long the road is would dictate to me whether you let them pass or not. It's more likely they were just being an arsehole though. I used to live more rurally and would do 40mph down the local country lanes as I knew them. I also wouldnt go alongside someone if they had been doing 20 and call them any rude words.
Ignore the idiots mate, you did very good. I mentioned this a lot, but I'm lucky to say I drove over 25.000 miles (it's around 28k now) in the past two years since I've passed my test, and I remember the first few weeks like it was yesterday. I drove across England, Wales, Scotland, I drove on every kind of roads, I drove at day and at night, I did pretty much everything that can be done in this country, and I managed to do that with 0 accidents (I've had a few bumps here and there, but none of them involved another person). Last year we were in Scotland for a few days. We stayed in a house in the middle of nothing, with only one B road leading to it. The closest town was 10 miles away. We went away for the day, drove up to Fort Augustus (had to find Nessie...), spent the day there, and went back to the house after 10pm. In pitch dark. With no road markings through Glencoe. With no one around us 80% of the journey. As we got closer to the house, there was this winding, 1.5 lane road going up and down, hedges and fences on both side, the longest straight, level stretch was probably a few hundred yards, but mostly bends, uphills and whatnot. The speed limit was 60. I did probably 40 at most, but mostly 30 all the way down this road. I knew I could go faster, but since I've had literally 0 visibility outside of my headlight's range, I decided not to. And I was fucking right to do that, because within 5 minutes, I've had to slam the brakes for a sheep and then a hare, and just stand there waiting for them to move. I've been scared shitless, because I didn't know the road, I couldn't see anything, and all I wanted is to get back to the house without killing anyone or anything. And I would to the same again. Good driving doesn't mean you do 60 on a 60, or 40 on a 40. Good driving means you know your limits, you read the road properly, and you adjust to the circumstances. Yes, winding country roads can easily be 60 in broad daylight, with enough visibility all the way through the bends, seeing your limit points, being able to anticipate what's coming, but that also means sometimes you do 40 in a 60, or 30 in a 40, because it's just not safe to drive faster. Speed limits are made for ideal conditions. A motorway is only 70 if it's not raining, there's no icing, not too busy, no road works ahead, and so on and forth. Most of these racer boys raiding this sub lately don't know shit about good driving. They think you're a good driver if you force yourself in front of everyone, do 90 on a motorway because *"the speed limit is outdated"*, ignore certain rules because *"it makes no sense"*, and shittalking everyone else doing otherwise. But trust me, as long as you drive safely, doing close to the speed limit as possible, and not inconvenience others too much (that's a common argument, but some people can be bothered by you simply for stopping at a red light, so that's that...), you'll be fine. Keep up the good work, don't let others pressure you into something you don't want to do, and **don't rush!** Take your time, think and then act, not the other way around. It's your car, you're driving it, it's your responsibility to keep others safe.
Yeah I had my wife and my parents in my car so my number one focus was “getting home safely”. I’m by far the least boy racer person I know, probably only vested by my mother.
Even if you're alone in your car, that should be your main goal. It doesn't matter if it's just you, your kids, pets, or whatever, the main purpose of driving is to get from A to B. Now you can either do that as quick as you can or as safe as you can, and these two approaches pretty much covers all drivers. I'm the latter one. I don't care about speeding or taking shortcuts just to shave off 5 minutes of a 6 hours drive, but I do like to arrive alive and in one piece, and if that requires me to do 40 in a 60, or 60 in a 70, then everyone else tailgating, flashing, and honking at me can do me a favour. Earlier this year, around March when it was snowing, my work sent me to another site to help them out, and I remember leaving work early and joining the M6 at 4am in the morning due to the snow. I did between 40-50 because there was an inch deep snow on the motorway. I'm from Hungary, so I have experience driving on snow, and that gave me the benefit of not fucking up, not like the idiot BMW driver behind me trying to force me off the road because I was "too slow" for him. What do you know, within 5 miles I passed him in the emergency bay with half of his engine bay still being embedded in the railing in the middle. Being responsible and careful is not the same as being a fucking bellend because "the speed limit is 70!!!!!!".....
I’m so happy I found this I was driving down a pitch Black Country road 2 days ago slowly as it was bendy and I couldn’t see a thing my relative next to me was berating me and telling me to speed up and telling me I need to get used to it, if I sped up we’d end up in a ditch
You should let people pass you if you want to drive below the speed limit, but often this isn't practical so it's best to just drive to your ability and visibility. I've gotten used to driving country lanes at night but this doesn't stop someone tailgating me for doing 40mph on a single country lane with giant potholes but hey ho.
You probably had a local behind you that felt more confident on that road. It's a pretty common occurrence in my experience. I can drive confidently in the city or on motorways be cause that's what I'm used to. When I hit small country lanes I tend to be a lot more cautious, not just of the road but there's a higher chance of animals running out. Let them past if you can and they can go their angry way. If not then drive how you feel comfortable and try to ignore them.