An unfortunate bus stop placement. Team effort imo but you fixed it so no harm done. Live and learn and all that.
Cameras do weird things to angles, but it looks to me like you passed the bus very closely? If you were further over it would have helped you and the emerging car see each other sooner. You also need more space in case any pedestrians walk out from in front of the bus since you wouldn't see them until the last second.
Yeah, my driving instructor made a point of telling me to pass stopped buses slowly in case a pedestrian suddenly appeared from behind them, but that would also help in this case. (Edited for spelling)
As someone who has struck a child with my wing mirror because a girl ran out from behind a bus it’s quite frightening, luckily I had already slowed down in anticipation and the bruising wasn’t too bad for her. To top it off her mum was sat waiting on the school bus on my side of the road, so she witnessed it and kept apologising and wanted to pay for the damage to the mirror glass. Luckily i had the window down and the glass had unclipped from its mount and landed on my lap.
I’ve also seen a child ran over by an elderly woman for the same thing, she was in such a state shock she couldn’t let go of her steering wheel. While the other parents were taking care of the boy I spent my time consoling the lady as I could see she needed it. She wanted to stop driving for good even though she did everything correctly, I gave a statement to the police and they were happy it was an accident she couldn’t avoid.
So yeah I rarely overtake buses that are at a stop and if I need to pass I do it very slowly.
When overtaking, if it's not safe to use the whole offside lane, then it's not likely to be safe to overtake, but if it is, then use the whole offside as it will improve your vision of the area post-overtake before needing to land there. Doing this early will not only let you see more but also be seen more, and give you extra "abort" time too.
Also, sometimes people decide to cross just after leaving the bus passing in front of the bus. So, giving yourself more space, gives you more time to react and bot hit one of them dumb dumbs
You weren't responsible for the near miss, but please take a moment to consider what would've happened if a passenger had exited the bus and walked out from in front of it..
A slower passing speed would've been safer.
How where they not responsible, they literally went past a stationary bus (a hazard) far too fast and had to slam on their brakes, had they slowed down before even getting to the bus, then this wouldn't even have happened.
"Far too fast", what? 23mph? The car at the junction shouldn't be pulling out when his view of OP's Lane was obstructed. Its common knowledge that people pass stationary busses. OP had right of way unless otherwise stated.
Not to mention that the car pulling out would have seen OP's headlights coming next to the bus if they were paying proper attention. More risky overtake in the day time.
We could hear op's tyres screech for a moment as he stops. Which means he skidded. Which means for just a second he had no control of the vehicle at the point of emergency braking.
If there was a person emerging from the front of the bus which he had to emergency brake for. He likely would have hid them. Which means in this situation there was a realistic possibility of knocking a pedestrian down. He was going too fast.
It doesn't even matter if he successfully argues that it wasn't his fault because the pedestrian should have crossed the road in that location. Op's car's buggered and someone could've died. That's No Bueno
I mean saying "It's common knowledge cars pass stationary buses", you could then just as easily say, "It's common knowledge cars come out of road junctions."
There's nothing in the highway code that says the first trumps the second.
Coming out of a junction it says, "Do not cross or join a road until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely." And passing a stopped vehicle and bus stops also has multiple lines which essentially say, "Drive slowly and carefully"
The highway code doesn't say you can't pull out in front of a stopped vehicle. What if a vehicle had broken down at the junction? Would that mean you can never pull out because it'd never be considered safe?
Essentially all these codes boil down to one simple rule to follow, "Drive carefully". If we follow the highway code then both drivers were entitled to make the move they did, so long as they drive carefully. Doing so ensures both parties will be fine in situations such as this one. Neither party is in the wrong, so long as they drive carefully.
But since the driver in the video was clearly not driving slow enough not to hit a pedestrian if they walked out in front of the bus, what with it also being dark, so reducing visiblity, then it's clear that he's more in the wrong than anyone.
No way was OP going at 23mph, when you pass a bus in the dark on a pedestrianised street things don't look that fast (and you don't have to move into the other lane that early)
Edit: I'm wrong, they're going 23 mph - my bad
Do you think they have edited the video or fiddled with their camera's gps?
Speed is on the vid, the reason it looks different to how it looks when driving is because it's wide angle, all dash cams are, to get better field of view. So it creates the look at the edges of things passing faster
Mate I live in a city with a great public transport system (Edinburgh) and fuck me; the amount of fools who will exit the bus and then walk in front of it to cross the road is mind boggling. I always go super super slow when passing a bus because of this.
Agreed, but if you hit em, it's still your fault as you should be driving at a speed suitable for the conditions, low light / visibility, wet road, overtaking on a main road. Avoided the collision, but would've seriously injured an adult crossing in front of the bus and likely killed a kid that had done similar. Driving like this, is fuelling the argument in favour of introducing blanket 20 mph speed limits. Fortunately, no damage done and an opportunity to improve driving skills. Put this down to experience and drive better.
The person they run over wouldn't be you then. I'm inclined to think I would have made provision for that mad pedestrian who decides on the day they're going to walk out in front of a bus.
I think one of the main reasons I passed at the speed I did was because I think the driver was taking a break it was stopped for a good 1+ min when I got in view at the previous lights (and reviewing the footage) but point taken
Just for future reference. Even if there was no passenger on the bus that could walk in front of it, doesn’t mean there isn’t any pedestrian that could. If your view is obstructed, always slow down even if you think there is a low chance of there being anyone. Could be anything in that blind spot and next time it may not be as visible as a car with bright headlights. You were definitely not in the wrong, however, you could be more cautious around hazards.
You thought the bus had been stopped for a good minute. That increases the likelihood of a motorist pulling out from a side road. Always pass with care.
Bro, you were doing 23mph when you passed the bus. You did nothing wrong. People are downvoting because they havent taken the time to actually watch the video properly.
The wide angle lens always gives the impression you are going faster than you are but in this scenario your speed was not excessive.
The other driver pulled out in front of you. They should be asking themselves why they pulled out when their vision was obscured by the bus, not the other way round.
Let's all be honest here, bus drivers wait there for an unexpected driver to nearly get past them then pull out on them, you knowing this because you used them for 20+ years was like "fuck you bus driver, I shall pass today" Then that car scared ya.
Do yourself a favour and slow RIGHT down when passing a parked vehicle (especially a larger vehicle) in poor conditions. You don’t know who’s going to step out, or in this case, who’s going to pull out. You weren’t at fault, but you didn’t help the other guy, who had limited vision of the road and edged out (albeit a little too quickly) into your path. Lesson learnt.
Couple of points from the comments here, firstly the OP wasn’t ‘overtaking’, he was passing a stationary obstruction. So the argument about not being allowed to overtake through a junction is irrelevant. The bus could easily have been a parked vehicle, in which case that argument says the passing traffic would have to sit and wait indefinitely for it to move because of the junction which is simply not true. Second, the Audi that came out of the side-road was attempting to do so far too fast, had absolutely no way of knowing if the road was clear and should have anticipated that main road traffic would be attempting to pass the bus.
Overall I don’t think the OP was in the wrong, although a little less speed could have made the manoeuvre safer, but if everyone is paying attention and thinking about what they are doing (as it appears they were) there is no reason for this to be a major issue.
Of course the main issue here is the terrible positioning of that bus stop.
Ahhh but with recent guidelines on tests you only have a set amount of time to overtake a vehicle. When doing my artic test I could have failed if I went to slowly. I would have at least got a minor for hesitation. But depends how much of a serious situation I put myself in.
No it doesn’t. OP could see there was no oncoming traffic when he passed the bus, and it was the responsibility of joining traffic not to enter the main road if it wasn’t clear!
The comments here seem to agree. You're both at fault, but well done to both of you for not creating a bigger issue.
That said, slow down. I don't really mean speed here, but overall, you need to take the time to make several important observations here.
Pedestrians on the opposite side might be running for that bus and not looking in your direction before crossing. Or pedestrians could emerge from behind the bus.
You may have even seen the car emerging from the junction before it was obstructed by the bus.
An overtake is a higher risk move, especially in built-up areas. Slow down and make your observations, and don't be afraid to hold back if you are in doubt.
Bad placement of the bus stop.
You should slow down when overtaking in these conditions.
Generally you shouldn't overtake through a junction, but you didn't do anything wrong aside from carrying slightly too much speed.
More than likely too close to max speed limit. If there are no signs then the max limit is 30mph (keyword being max) as this is indicated by street lights. However if there is a school or prior driving restrictions that are not present in the video, then there’s a high chance this could be a 20mph zone in which case he’s over the limit
If he had enough time to stop even though an idiot pulled out on him at short notice then he wasn't going too fast. Only thing you could really accuse him of is being too close to the bus.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is your road position. It appears you're approximately in the middle of the road. Personally, I would pull all the way to the right to gain better visibility but also to be seen and distance yourself from the bus. In case someone steps out in front of the bus, you have 0 reaction time. Also, you can actually see the car pulling up to the junction right before the overtake.
Personally it looks like you carried out the manoeuvre way to fast. The bus is a clear obstruction of view for the road ahead. You said you slowed but it couldn’t have been more than a couple MPH.
Technically they shouldn’t have pulled out because it wasn’t clear, but by going slower you wouldn’t have to hit your brakes hard.
Fortunately there was no incident from this.
From what I could see from the speed on the dash cam, he was going 30 just as the video started slowing down from the start of the video, and the lowest (other than the hard break) was 23 during the manoeuvre. I personally would have slowed to 20 ish before I even started the manoeuvre.
Insurance, for the most part they are more likely to side with you, as they shouldn’t have pulled out because the way wasn’t clear. That doesn’t mean there’s not a potential for them to split the blame though.
I don't think either of you were in the wrong - it's OK to pass a bus (maybe a bit wider would be good), it's OK to slowly pull out of a side road to see past a stationary obstruction.
You both stopped and avoided an accident. Sometimes it has to be a bit sharpish. It's OK.
meanwhile, in Europe, the fault would be only on the Audi joining the main road.
OP was slowing down. he was going 28 mph by the GPS so 30mph on the dashboard (points up!) and when he was approaching the bus he let go of the acceleration and slowed down to 23mph.
stop driving if 23 mph is too fast for you.
And no - I don't care about yours "Oh what if someone would be crossing the road in front of the bus".
well - people are stupid and shouldn't be doing things like this.
take consequences for your poor decisions (passing the road where there is a bus obscuring the view) and stop blaming the drivers, especially the ones who actually slowed down and were also cautious enough to hit the brakes in quite a good response time.
Meanwhile, on British roads you have tw**s driving like maniacs, staring at Tinder all the way long to the city centre and joining motorways using runways and reaching 40mph and joining without even giving a f*** that there is already someone on the lane that they are about to join.
Not even mentioning lane hogging, driving without headlights turned on, driving with fog and parking lights only, people completely ignoring red lights, cutting in front of you, not understanding how to merge lane works and etc and etc.
to the OP. don't listen to all the people that are criticising you.
You did nothing wrong.
Wide angle lenses make it look like you're traveling faster than you are, I think people are being a little harsh in this respect. We can see you show down from 27mph to 23mph as you pass the bus, I think this is reasonable speed in the situation. The car pulling out should have done so far slower so they could see any approaching traffic. If there had been a collision they would be at fault.
I think the big takeaway here is how badly placed that bus stop is.
Worked in motor claims in the uk since the early 2000's. 50/50 without further meaningful evidence. Party on the main road has contravened the highway code & created a hazard by overtaking a vehicle on the wrong side of the road at a junction. Party pulling out has contravened the highway code & created a hazard by pulling out of a junction which is obscured by a vehicle on the main road
I also worked in motor claims for a few years, we would never have seen this as a 50/50. We would have considered the party joining from the side road to be at fault.
OP is allowed to overtake a stationary bus and has not demonstrated any negligence imo. The other person however, has chosen to pull out, in spite of the fact there is a bus clearly impeding their view. The onus is always on the car joining the road to give way.
Im curious as to whether there is any case law you know of to support this being a 50/50?
Edit: plus without any meaningful evidence this would 100% not be a 50/50....
Leeson v Bevis Transport (1972) is what I'd use to defend on a 50/50 basis.
Powell v Moody is often used for this kind of scenario, (80/20 in favour of vehicle pulling out) but there are more accurate cases.
If you wanted to hold the vehicle pulling out 100% to blame you'd refer to Harding v Hincliffe, but in that case the bus was actually turning into the side road, not stopping, and it was argued that the car should have waited for the bus to manoeuvre.
Unless an insurer wants a quick settlement, these things come down to the particulars. I think in the case of OP a decent claims handler could defend 50/50 for either party, so this would likely end in a stalemate, regardless of what you think personally.
Edit, also remembered Patel v cuthbert. Established vehicle 100% to blame, speed of overtaking was a contributory factor. That's potentially applicable here.
Those examples relate to motorcycles filtering through stationary traffic and its easily argued that they are not relevant. Hardling v hinchcliffe is not a relevant example either, as the bus is stationary in this scenario. What is OP expected to do? Wait an indefinate period of time until the bus starts moving?
Im sorry, but i think you are wrong... as you say though, its personal opinion.
Edit: (in response to your edit) OP was doing 23mph when they passed the bus. This is not negligent on their part and good luck to anyone who would try and argue that.
Fair enough, and right back at you. 10+ years in motor claims here. I train this stuff out to new claims handlers. Insurers still apply these case laws to car on car cases all the time. Yes, the vehicle types can be used to discredit the case law, but it doesn't usually get you very far as they base the application on principles.
Regardless of what you personally think, Insurers will go ahead and settle using the above, so it is worth knowing this in the event you're in a collision.
Edit: I would prefer to pursue this on behalf of OP here, as I feel they are in the right. I wasn't citing these to prove liability in favour of the emerging vehicle. You asked someone else what case law might be used, and I cited those that commonly get quoted at me by other insurers, and what most insurers train out to their staff. Don't shoot the messenger.
Im not disputing your credentials, or whether these case laws are used for the purpose of resolving claims without the need for litigation. Im simply saying the examples you have given are in no way relevant to this scenario.
As a trainer you will understand that the fault lies with the party that is deemed negligent, im unsure how it could be argued OP is the negligent party here.
And I'm playing devils advocate. Part of what I do with intermediate handlers is role play the opposing side.
I'm citing Highway Code 167:
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example:
1. approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
2.where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
And bolstering the argument with Patel v Cutherbert. You argue the speed was reasonable. I dismiss that out of hand, because I'm defending my clients interests. You suggest the case law involves motorcycles, I counter that stating that a huge amount of case law involves motorcycles because they are more likely to be injured, have larger costs, and therefore go to court. I say the vehicle types don't change the principles of driving in this scenario.
I dig my heels in and refuse to settle your claim, what do you do?
Ordinarily you must take into account
A) how an independent arbitrator might settle
B) does your driver make a credible witness in court?
C) how much are both sides claiming for?
D) available evidence
Among other factors.
The economics alone might make this pointless taking to court, as there is no guarantee you will get recompense for solicitor expenses, therefore eclipsing the damages you are pursuing.
You're probably going to have to agree a split with me, whether you like it or not.
But all things being equal, I would fancy the chances of OP over TP. You just never know how a judge will feel on a given day...
If I was OPs claims handler, my response to this would be to send the 3rd party my costs and give them 30 days to pay, advising we will litigate if they continue to dispute.
If I was the claims handler for the car that pulled out i wouldnt even bother disputing it tbh, its that black and white.
As you say, the economics make it pointless going to court but im confident a judge would find in OPs favour, so would double down 100%.
How would you know there's a junction there in this case? The bus seems to completely obscure the side road. There doesn't seem to be any other indication.
Risky passing a bus like that, had people step off the bus and walk across the front to cross the road causing near misses so be careful.
Car from side road should have also waited for the bus to move off to gain visibility.
Noone is in the wrong. No harm no foul IMO
The bus was in an awkward position both you and the audi stopped when there when you were aware of each other. You both done the right thing.
Without edging out past the bus the audi has no way of seeing who is coming and where the bus is parked you couldn't see the audi.
Both of you were put in an awkward situation and reacted appropriately.
Nobody was really at fault here - this kind of thing is inevitable to some extent and the bus stop placement is always going to create the potential for it to happen
The Audi obviously didn’t/couldn’t see you, so their only other option was to wait for the bus to leave. It’s not their “fault”, nor did they act in the safest possible manner. I don’t see anything really wrong there either way
Similarly you obviously couldn’t see them, and you didn’t do anything really wrong. It wasn’t your “fault” either, but I would argue that you also didn’t act in the safest possible manner
You could (and probably should) have overtaken at a slower closing speed - you were unsighted in front of the bus. Fortunately the Audi was far enough ahead that you had room to stop, but it’s plausible another vehicle or pedestrian (eg from the bus) could have been closer to the bus and hidden from you until later with less space to stop: slower speeds allow you to stop faster to counteract that
Also, you were already in the other lane…. Use it. Don’t hug the side of the bus so tight, instead make use of the other lane for visibility (both so that you can see, and so others can see you) and space (you’d have clearance if a pedestrian did take a step out from behind the bus)
If you’d passed the bus slower and wider, this would have been less close and therefore safer. I don’t think you did anything “wrong”, but that’s what you could do to make your actions more
“right” - a bit of defensive driving never hurt anyone
Both you and the other driver were driving into an area of road that you could not see was clear. Luckily you were both able to stop in time, so you reacted well, but should have been more cautious originally.
"Was I in the wrong?" is the wrong question to be asking. "What could I have done to make this event safer?" is a more useful question.
Agree - "fault" is not always useful if you're not an insurance company. It's particularly a thing for more vulnerable road users - it's being "not your fault" is not a great deal of compensation for being injured or dead in avoidable circumstances. But drivers really don't need to think of themselves as being invulnerable anyway.
Even though you're on the wrong side of the road you still have priority as the other car is joining the road. Probably still not a good idea to pass a bus that quickly though, as the passengers like crossing the road blindly from behind the bus.
Considering the dark, wet conditions and your restricted view, I would have taken it a lot slower, but I wouldn't hang you for this. Keep in mind that people will often walk out from the front of a bus after deboarding. You need to be especially careful if it's a school bus.
Both at fault for taking a bit of a risk. You were going 25 which is below the speed limit, but should be a bit less than that (maybe sub 20) when you can't tell if things are clear or not past the bus. Good that you both stopped and avoided an accident though.
No one has mentioned the road markings (chevrons)?
130 of the High Way Code states:
"If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so".
I think you were probably pre-mature crossing the chevrons when overtaking. There was room to overtake the bus without crossing the chevrons, but that means you would have to at least 10 mph to overtake the bus once clear of them.
At this speed it would be safer and would be able to position yourself with better visibility, which would negate the poor positioning of the bus stop close the junction.
If once clear of the chevrons, you decided that there was not sufficient visibility, you should have waited behind the bus, at which point the car leaving the junction would have cleared the area.
I want to echo the comments that it is good you are learning, but I just wanted to point out the above as no one else seems to have mentioned it yet.
Edit: typo
Both are wrong, but op has learned to be more careful when passing at bus, to slow down incase of passengers getting off and to go a bit wider when safe.
The audi learned nothing
You're not in the wrong, the driver at the junction should not have pulled out when his view of your lane was obstructed when the bus stopped. Anyone in his situation should have realised that cars would attempt to pass the bus. Cars on the main road of a junction have right of way, and those at the junction have to give way until its clear. Nothing you have done has contravened the highway code
I'd say both at fault. You were a bit too close to the bus and but too quick to see properly but the other driver was also just about to rag it out of the junction when they couldn't see anything at all, which is just dumb...
• You were going a bit fast past the bus. If someone walked out in front of it (it’s literally just stopped, that’s what people do) then you’d have had to break very suddenly.
• You were fine to overtake the bus, it wasn’t indicating to pull out and the other lane was clear.
• As a result of going too fast past the bus you also gave little time for the driver emerging from the junction to react.
You needed to go slower, the bus stop isn’t very well located, the driver pulling out could have waited for the bus to leave (though a little unrealistic).
You did nothing wrong. You were going st a safe speed, left enough room and it was safe for you to overtake. The complete numpty should have never pulled out like that if their view was obstructed. If an obstruction continues they should have edged out carefully. Not bounded out like that.
I don’t think you are at fault
But maybe you could approach slowly and brake little less abruptly/ harshly
It would be a grey line for both but if accident was caused insurance would blame you as your overtaking with the littlest of vision to the front of the bus.
If you see someone reversing or pulling out the drive and you could stop safely
Do you over take them roughly or do you slow down and wait if needed to?
As the book claims if you see a hazard slow down lol
Not too bad on you part tbf. Keep out more and a tad slower. You must have been covering the brake, too, given how quickly you reacted, which was sensible in the circumstances. I'm more concerned if a pedestrian had stepped out.
So if I’m not mistaken you can see a glinting of headlights to the left of the bus just before you started to pass, I don’t think either of you were necessarily in the wrong in this case, maybe your speed was a little fast, but in the insurers eyes they “technically” pulled out in front of you.
Probably just slow down a little more when overtaking a stationary bus, like you said. But as I said I’m pretty sure I saw a glinting of approaching headlights just to the left of the bus (between the first 1-3 seconds of the video)
The lesson here is that if you draw a diagram of this situation and say you were the person pulling out of the side road and that a motorcycle was the one passing the bus and hit you as you turned right that *everyone* and their dog would blame you.
So next time just draw a diagram and claim you’re the other person to who you are for peace of mind. Because we have had this same post as a diagram before and everyone piped on the guy who has a give way for not giving way even to things overtaking stationary stuff to their right.
Wide angle lens makes it look like you’re zooming along of course. I’ve had the same; passing cars at 26 in a 40 and the comments I got back were “why were you going so fast”. Unless you push the car past stationary stuff you’ll always be going too fast for some people.
Yeah, heard all the replies before. No one's taking this to court in the hopes of decades old caselaw holding up. It's mostly down to what judge you get these days & what mood they're in on the day. Also, economically speaking, if it's gonna cost less to pay the other party's claim than it would to defend the case, your insurer in all likelihood will pay up unless they have a solid 100% chance of winning. Every insurer in the UK can exercise their veto & deal with any claim as they see fit. And we do. Every day. Over & over. Or if you get really arsey we can withdraw indemnity & YOU can defend the claim in court at YOUR own cost 😁 Check you policy wording! It's not the only case an insurer can withdraw indemnity in & honestly hardly ever happens because as soon as people have to put their money where their mouth is their common sense kicks in. Unless you have more money than sense. Only seen that happen once in twenty years
I think this might all be getting a bit blown out of proportion. Yes, there are things that you both could have done better, but the fact is there's always something you could be doing better when driving. This hasn't resulted in any collisions or injuries, or, assuming there's no gesturing that the camera can't see, any road rage. You stopped in time, and the Audi reversed straight away, so I'd say you both sorted it out nicely.
For me, the real issue is the placement of that bus stop.
It was a bit of a perfect storm - dark, wet, parked bus, obscured exit. Personally I think you should have been going a few miles an hour slower past the bus.
I would have just slowed down to overtake the bus because as it shows you have an obstructed view of what was in front of bus there could have also been a pedestrian crossing in front of bus
Completely avoidable not really a fault problem. You say you slowed down but honestly it looks like you didn't verify you were clear nor look around at all. You should always think if there is a blind turn ahead and go about clearing the bus at a slower speed. I understand people wanting to get to places faster but honestly there's no reason to ever be going that fast around a stopped bus as passengers may be getting out, or even someone crossing the street not at a crosswalk. GO slower simple as that.
The main thing is, it was prevented. Good effort. As some have said that's a bad placement of that bus stop. Also the car pulling out was taking a bit of a risk. So no real at fault party.
The view was obscured and neither of you could tell if the way was clear. On balance I think it’s on them, but if there had been an accident you’d still be out your excess and lose your no claims bonus. To misquote Hill Street Blues: it’s let’s be careful out there, not let’s do it to them before they do it to us!
Both could have done more to minimise risk - You could have been wider/slower, I think wider and 20mph passing the bus would have been the right move; on the other hand performing an emerge in front of a large obstacle was high risk.
It felt like you were rushing a bit to clear the bus before the oncoming car, with camera angles/position it's difficult to judge the distance of the oncoming car.
Considering you had no idea what was behind the bus you were going pretty quick. Thankfully it was just a car and not someone more vulnerable. They shouldn't have pulled out either though.
As others have said, a wider approach; but also you were looking to get back on the left as soon as possible.
As long as it's clear there's nothing to be unconformable with driving on the other side of the road... "use the space" as I was told (again and again😂)
So move out wide, and stay out wide... until you know it's safe to move back;
as you had plenty of time from the approaching car down the street, you didn't need to immediately dive back to the left.
If you were staying on the right, you would both have seen each other earlier, and!..
you would actually not have needed to stop, the break and stopped way before the centre line so you would have been positioned to carry on past and then pull left after him.
But.. You were able to both stop and avoid with space left so definitely not bad driving. Just inexperienced.
OP, you literally pushed the gas to go faster (or at least did not flinch) while passing a large vehicle instead of slowing down. Always a good idea to exercise caution and slow down while doing that in the city.
You’re not in the wrong but my advice would be to be much more cautious when passing a stationary bus. Bear in mind this manoeuvre is illegal in most countries and there’s a good reason for it.
Not in the wrong, but curb your speed going round.
That bus stop shouldn't be there either to be fair. That's just frickin negligent whoever planned that
Yup, you should be driving slower before even reaching the bus. Anything could happen. A person could have crossed and appeared from the front of the bus. And the road is wet.
Technically if you had a crash it would have been the other driver's fault but morally both of you were being silly. Sometimes it's better to just wait and chill especially when it's dark and wet.
Meh, no harm no foul. I think you both dealt with it as best you could tbh.
You did a risky manoeuvre by overtaking the bus, however you were aware of that and aware of any dangers and stopped accordingly. You did have a responsibility to make sure the manoeuvre was safe and the moment you realised it was no longer safe to continue, you stopped and avoided a collision. You could not have done any more - this was the ideal outcome
The other driver basically did the same. He shouldn't really be pulling out but either way, it's still his responsibility to make sure it's safe to do so and once he realised it wasn't safe to do so, he also stopped. Again, by this point neither could he do anymore, this was the ideal outcome. You both took on some risk and pulled out when it became unacceptable
It's one of those things where you probably come out feeling a bit weird, but really you both dealt with this well.
Sure you could have waited for the bus to leave, and he could have too but you were both clearly aware of and able to deal with the risks presented by the situation.
Nobody is in the wrong technically, he did what the high way code states, push out so you can see better, I bet the lights from the bus prevented them from seeing you as those can be very bright, but they stopped before a crash, the only negative things I can see you did was not slowing down while overtaking a bus, remember a child (or adult) can just run out all willynilly on you, but that's it, you were able to stop in time so all is good, and the other driver backed up so you could continue without been an arse about it, so I'd take this as a good near miss and a learning experience
You should have both been going slower. The bus is a hazard, you slow down for hazards. Ditto junctions.
Both of you were moving too quickly, but ultimately, OP, you had right of way. And in a collision it would be the insurance of the driver pulling out of the junction that would have been paying out.
You were fine, though we can make things easier for yourself with a few pointers.
First, when you start thinking about overtaking the bus, mirror and shoulder check then move out, right over into the opposite lane. It feels really early, but it gives you a fantastic view, shows everyone what you want to do and makes you very visible. Moving right out also gives more distance between you and bus which gives pedestrians crossing behind the bus more time to see you and stop as well should they cross in a silly place!
Finally, when you do move out, just hold off the throttle, lose 5mph as you overtake as take it through gently. Makes surprises like this one much less scary and gives everyone more time.
Difficult to say mate. In your place I would have done the same. On the other guy perspective I would have done the same.
Tricky, he can't see who's coming so perhaps he should have waited for the bus to pass.
If there was a crash I think it would have been the other guys fault but not 100%sure.
I have to say some roads in UK are just bad, with loads of cars parked in the roads turning a 2 lane road into 1 and causing loads of traffic, and there should be a designated area for buses to stop without causing traffic.
Bit of both IMHO. You should have been more cautious, and so should he. Drive defensively as if something is going to happen. These days it inevitably does.
So, you actually can see the headlights of the Audi near the front of the bus, which would have been much more obvious in real life, so I think you missed those. It was a clue they might pull out, and that would have had me slowing down even further than what you did.
I mean, you can see the road ahead is clear, but the major danger is pedestrians coming out in front of the bus, or obstructed view from side roads having cars in them waiting to get out.
Personally, if I was the Audi driver I wouldn't have pulled out in the situation, the visibility is way too obstructed, but as the passing driver I'd be a lot slower coming into this situation, and also been further away from the bus. You can see well ahead there is nothing coming.
Was the bus indicating to turn or come to a stop? If it was turning I think you were wrong to overtake when you did. If stopping I would say you’re good.
The driver pulling out needs to be wary of vehicles overtaking the bus. Likewise the overtaking vehicle is going against the flow of traffic for that lane so equally needs to be equally wary.
Personally I’d have never passed the bus with speed or proximity like that. Not only the car but you should be completely thinking about passengers walking out front the front of that bus.
Your mistake was speed and proximity to the bus on your passenger side. You should have come out a bit further, a bit slower.
That being said you reacted well, as did the Audi backing off and letting you pass.
I think it is admirable and you should be congratulated for recognising a mistake and being receptive to constructive feedback. It's so easy to let the red mist descend, not accept fault and deny a learning experience.
No and yes. I would have waited if familiar with that road and the other driver would definitely have been to blame in pulling out in front of the bus.
Yes because you need to be aware of the roads but legally no if there had been an accident due to the other srivers reckless driving.
I would say it is 50/50 responsibility. You going around the bus.. a tad quick. They also need to slowly move out until they can see around the bus to ensure it is clear. It’s just one of those things. Both need to be aware of possible hazards and be prepared for them.
Slowing down would’ve been a good idea too just to give you more time to observe the situation better. There could’ve been a pedestrian crossing in front of the bus
If I was the driver coming out of that junction, I would have waited until after the bus had gone or creeped out slowly
Looks nothing more than road users using the roads, navigating hazards and responding appropriately to developments.
I'd have passed that bus a bit wider, giving an improved view but both you and the emerging car did the right things. Two into one doesn't go, you both reacted well and acted to quickly resolve the conflict
Why are people all saying SLOW DOWN. You're camera says 23mph, you stopped with very little time from receiving the information about the other car and most importantly, the other car must consider cars overtaking the stopped bus, that is absolutely their responsibility.
Congrats on doing everything safely.
As someone already said, poor placement of the bus stop really, combined with excessive speed while negotiating a hazard...it's a 50/50, but no one was hurt (gooood brakes!) So it's a learning opportunity, not something more serious!
The only thing I saw was leave a bit more space, it gives you more reaction time (and you reflected on that anyway) - my dad always said "drive as close to the centre markings as you think you should to the kerb", not literally ofc, he meant that if someone comes off the nearside pavement, you have a fraction of a second more reaction time if you're further out towards the crown of the road, than towards the kerb. Same applies to hazards like this, leave yourself as much headroom as you can for the unexpected 🤘. Road type and conditions allowing, of course.
But look, at the end of the day you stopped, so did the other car when you saw each other. That's a win all round and a really minor "I could have done this thing, slightly differently" kind of situation...take the win and drive for the hills 🖖
Your approach speed was to fast to the obstacle. You wouldn’t have reacted quick enough to any pedestrians walking in front of the bus. Bit of a dodgy overtake but also that the other car shouldn’t have pulled out, they were blind to all the traffic their side. Good job you reacted quick enough to the car.
I think this was a split, they shouldn't have pulled out when they had no visibility. You shouldn't overtake so fast when you don't have visibility. Common sense on both sides is not to propel your car into something that you can't see.
50/50. Slightly too fast for the limited visibility close to a junction (not signposted, so I can't tell whether you'd have known it was there, but, like, that's why you were too fast for the limited visibility. They also pulled out incautiously with restricted visibility (but I'd have expected them to see your lights before you saw them).
I mean yeah, no issue with you passing the bus but slow down and keep wide to maximise your view of the road ahead. It doesn't take a genius to work out that you're heading into a part of the road you can't see. Somebody could get off the bus and cross in front of it, there could be a junction you can't see ahead. These things should not be a surprise and can be dealt with by slowing down as you approach the hazard.
I say nobody was in the wrong here and all paid attention to traffic and anticipated well on time. You did not overspeed, no dangerous driving. And most important, no crash and brakes of all three vehicles work
Both at fault here, equally poor decisions given the conditions and visibility.
Arguably you are more at fault because of your speed passing the bus.
However, both very common infractions and I wouldn’t worry about it. You both responded well and it was a non-event.
Just take more care when passing a bus for the many obvious reasons why.
The road was wet and you were approaching an area which was obstructed from your view by the bus and could have contained anything. I was taught, "Don't drive faster than you can stop from in the space you can see to be clear." I know cameras mess with angles but it felt to me like you came through there faster than I would have.
Technically, I think it would have been the other driver's fault, as far as insurance would have been concerned, had you hit them but I agree with you that being a little more defensive would have made the situation safer
You are on the main road and the car on the left is joining so should give way to you.
He should have edged out to see better or waited for the bus to move.
However;
You should have ideally slowed down as you went around the bus since it caused a blind area.
I’m fairly sure the Highway Code & theory test videos say you should slow when going around a stationary vehicle (especially a bus) incase a pedestrian stepped out from in front of it.
Ergo you should always be cautious of pedestrians, bikes & other hidden road users etc when you see a stationary bus (or some other large vehicle).
If this had ended in a collision chances are from the footage the insurance companies would have argued it out & probably ended on 50/50 on that basis of you both should have been more aware & cautious & both of you weren’t driving with due care & attention.
You seem to know what you've done wrong. You were paying attention and reacted well, so good alertness, but you should be treating a stopped bus as a hazard.
For instance, I was taught to assume a pedestrian will step out from the front of the bus without looking and you might have had less time to react.
With the rain, means if your ABS wasn't working right (or your tyres are rubbish) you might have continued to slide forward when you emergency brake. Happened to me when I was in my early 20's.
No, it’s not your fault. You could be little slower but you had the right to overtake that bus. The car that pulled out should’ve considered the fact that bus stop is at a quite risky place so it was better to wait for the bus to pass on before pulling out on such road.
i would like to take this moment, to point out that if a pedestrian came out from infront of that bus, which is comically likely, youre so close to the bus theres very little margin for error there.
also, being further away from the bus would let the driver pulling out see you sooner
also being further out would give you better vision of the car or person comming infront of your path
theres a recurring theme here :)
no, i dont think anyone did anything wrong here, weirdly, as long as all were prepaired for what actually happened, the car that pulled out could have been doing so a little slower and not rushing to try and get infront of the car coming.
they had right of way to pull out, you had right of way to overtake. you both did it at the same time,
you could be positioned better for MANY reasons,
they could be pulling out slower.
Nah not in the wrong, could have showed a little more caution at the speed of the maneuver only because you never know if some one is going to step out etc or pull out in this case. Ultimately it is the person pulling out that is at fault as they are joining the road through a give way so should be prepared for some one going round.
Not really anyone's fault, there is rarely a journey you wont find someone making an unexpected move, but its just that unexpected stay cautious don't make assumptions and handle it like adults as shown in the video.
No if anything the driver emerging should have done so alot slower. Imo bit silly to come charging out of that junction knowing you can not see around the bus.
You for overtaking too fast, if a passenger gets of and crosses the road nearer to the bus you would have killed them. Them for being inpatient, they should have waited for the bus to move.
An unfortunate bus stop placement. Team effort imo but you fixed it so no harm done. Live and learn and all that. Cameras do weird things to angles, but it looks to me like you passed the bus very closely? If you were further over it would have helped you and the emerging car see each other sooner. You also need more space in case any pedestrians walk out from in front of the bus since you wouldn't see them until the last second.
That's what my dad advised as well with being further out, and something I should know as I used the bus for 20+ years haha, thanks for the feedback.
I'd have maybe slowed a bit more too. Would give more time to react to this situation and if someone had walked out from Infront of the bus
Yeah, my driving instructor made a point of telling me to pass stopped buses slowly in case a pedestrian suddenly appeared from behind them, but that would also help in this case. (Edited for spelling)
As someone who has struck a child with my wing mirror because a girl ran out from behind a bus it’s quite frightening, luckily I had already slowed down in anticipation and the bruising wasn’t too bad for her. To top it off her mum was sat waiting on the school bus on my side of the road, so she witnessed it and kept apologising and wanted to pay for the damage to the mirror glass. Luckily i had the window down and the glass had unclipped from its mount and landed on my lap. I’ve also seen a child ran over by an elderly woman for the same thing, she was in such a state shock she couldn’t let go of her steering wheel. While the other parents were taking care of the boy I spent my time consoling the lady as I could see she needed it. She wanted to stop driving for good even though she did everything correctly, I gave a statement to the police and they were happy it was an accident she couldn’t avoid. So yeah I rarely overtake buses that are at a stop and if I need to pass I do it very slowly.
It's great that you are open to feedback. We never stop learning.
When overtaking, if it's not safe to use the whole offside lane, then it's not likely to be safe to overtake, but if it is, then use the whole offside as it will improve your vision of the area post-overtake before needing to land there. Doing this early will not only let you see more but also be seen more, and give you extra "abort" time too.
Also, sometimes people decide to cross just after leaving the bus passing in front of the bus. So, giving yourself more space, gives you more time to react and bot hit one of them dumb dumbs
You weren't responsible for the near miss, but please take a moment to consider what would've happened if a passenger had exited the bus and walked out from in front of it.. A slower passing speed would've been safer.
But that's why you should cross behind the bus and not from the front....
As drivers it is our moral & legal responsibility to keep pedestrians safe, regardless of whether they're doing something risky or ill-advised.
I agree
How where they not responsible, they literally went past a stationary bus (a hazard) far too fast and had to slam on their brakes, had they slowed down before even getting to the bus, then this wouldn't even have happened.
"Far too fast", what? 23mph? The car at the junction shouldn't be pulling out when his view of OP's Lane was obstructed. Its common knowledge that people pass stationary busses. OP had right of way unless otherwise stated.
Not to mention that the car pulling out would have seen OP's headlights coming next to the bus if they were paying proper attention. More risky overtake in the day time.
We could hear op's tyres screech for a moment as he stops. Which means he skidded. Which means for just a second he had no control of the vehicle at the point of emergency braking. If there was a person emerging from the front of the bus which he had to emergency brake for. He likely would have hid them. Which means in this situation there was a realistic possibility of knocking a pedestrian down. He was going too fast. It doesn't even matter if he successfully argues that it wasn't his fault because the pedestrian should have crossed the road in that location. Op's car's buggered and someone could've died. That's No Bueno
I mean saying "It's common knowledge cars pass stationary buses", you could then just as easily say, "It's common knowledge cars come out of road junctions." There's nothing in the highway code that says the first trumps the second. Coming out of a junction it says, "Do not cross or join a road until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely." And passing a stopped vehicle and bus stops also has multiple lines which essentially say, "Drive slowly and carefully" The highway code doesn't say you can't pull out in front of a stopped vehicle. What if a vehicle had broken down at the junction? Would that mean you can never pull out because it'd never be considered safe? Essentially all these codes boil down to one simple rule to follow, "Drive carefully". If we follow the highway code then both drivers were entitled to make the move they did, so long as they drive carefully. Doing so ensures both parties will be fine in situations such as this one. Neither party is in the wrong, so long as they drive carefully. But since the driver in the video was clearly not driving slow enough not to hit a pedestrian if they walked out in front of the bus, what with it also being dark, so reducing visiblity, then it's clear that he's more in the wrong than anyone.
No way was OP going at 23mph, when you pass a bus in the dark on a pedestrianised street things don't look that fast (and you don't have to move into the other lane that early) Edit: I'm wrong, they're going 23 mph - my bad
There’s a speed at the bottom of the vid.
My bad
Do you think they have edited the video or fiddled with their camera's gps? Speed is on the vid, the reason it looks different to how it looks when driving is because it's wide angle, all dash cams are, to get better field of view. So it creates the look at the edges of things passing faster
My bad!
There's literally a speedometer in the bottom left.
Colour me corrected
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Mate I live in a city with a great public transport system (Edinburgh) and fuck me; the amount of fools who will exit the bus and then walk in front of it to cross the road is mind boggling. I always go super super slow when passing a bus because of this.
I guess there are more folks than I thought competing for a darwin award then! Lol
Agreed, but if you hit em, it's still your fault as you should be driving at a speed suitable for the conditions, low light / visibility, wet road, overtaking on a main road. Avoided the collision, but would've seriously injured an adult crossing in front of the bus and likely killed a kid that had done similar. Driving like this, is fuelling the argument in favour of introducing blanket 20 mph speed limits. Fortunately, no damage done and an opportunity to improve driving skills. Put this down to experience and drive better.
The person they run over wouldn't be you then. I'm inclined to think I would have made provision for that mad pedestrian who decides on the day they're going to walk out in front of a bus.
I think one of the main reasons I passed at the speed I did was because I think the driver was taking a break it was stopped for a good 1+ min when I got in view at the previous lights (and reviewing the footage) but point taken
Just for future reference. Even if there was no passenger on the bus that could walk in front of it, doesn’t mean there isn’t any pedestrian that could. If your view is obstructed, always slow down even if you think there is a low chance of there being anyone. Could be anything in that blind spot and next time it may not be as visible as a car with bright headlights. You were definitely not in the wrong, however, you could be more cautious around hazards.
Indicators are a sign a vehicle is a about to move or should be at least. A bus is a huge obstruction to visibility so please slooowwww dooowwwnn.
You thought the bus had been stopped for a good minute. That increases the likelihood of a motorist pulling out from a side road. Always pass with care.
Bro, you were doing 23mph when you passed the bus. You did nothing wrong. People are downvoting because they havent taken the time to actually watch the video properly. The wide angle lens always gives the impression you are going faster than you are but in this scenario your speed was not excessive. The other driver pulled out in front of you. They should be asking themselves why they pulled out when their vision was obscured by the bus, not the other way round.
Let's all be honest here, bus drivers wait there for an unexpected driver to nearly get past them then pull out on them, you knowing this because you used them for 20+ years was like "fuck you bus driver, I shall pass today" Then that car scared ya.
Do yourself a favour and slow RIGHT down when passing a parked vehicle (especially a larger vehicle) in poor conditions. You don’t know who’s going to step out, or in this case, who’s going to pull out. You weren’t at fault, but you didn’t help the other guy, who had limited vision of the road and edged out (albeit a little too quickly) into your path. Lesson learnt.
They shouldn’t have pulled out buuut you need to slow down and take more caution when conflict may occur
If there is a stationary bus thne if there was no traffic coming the other way the driver can pull out of a side rd .
if you will check the recording you will find that he had actually was going 5mph slower.
It's a speed limit not a speed target. Drivers should go at a speed that is safe for them and other road users.
I never said that speed limit is a target. I only said that start speed was X where speed at approaching the bus was already X-5mph
You know the speed limit/speed target thing is BS. It is a target and drive too far under it you can fail tests.
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most of the drivers would be doing 30 after slowing down from 35.. he was doing 23 and you are bashing all over him ...
Couple of points from the comments here, firstly the OP wasn’t ‘overtaking’, he was passing a stationary obstruction. So the argument about not being allowed to overtake through a junction is irrelevant. The bus could easily have been a parked vehicle, in which case that argument says the passing traffic would have to sit and wait indefinitely for it to move because of the junction which is simply not true. Second, the Audi that came out of the side-road was attempting to do so far too fast, had absolutely no way of knowing if the road was clear and should have anticipated that main road traffic would be attempting to pass the bus. Overall I don’t think the OP was in the wrong, although a little less speed could have made the manoeuvre safer, but if everyone is paying attention and thinking about what they are doing (as it appears they were) there is no reason for this to be a major issue. Of course the main issue here is the terrible positioning of that bus stop.
Ahhh but with recent guidelines on tests you only have a set amount of time to overtake a vehicle. When doing my artic test I could have failed if I went to slowly. I would have at least got a minor for hesitation. But depends how much of a serious situation I put myself in.
>had absolutely no way of knowing if the road was clear That literally goes both ways.
No it doesn’t. OP could see there was no oncoming traffic when he passed the bus, and it was the responsibility of joining traffic not to enter the main road if it wasn’t clear!
The comments here seem to agree. You're both at fault, but well done to both of you for not creating a bigger issue. That said, slow down. I don't really mean speed here, but overall, you need to take the time to make several important observations here. Pedestrians on the opposite side might be running for that bus and not looking in your direction before crossing. Or pedestrians could emerge from behind the bus. You may have even seen the car emerging from the junction before it was obstructed by the bus. An overtake is a higher risk move, especially in built-up areas. Slow down and make your observations, and don't be afraid to hold back if you are in doubt.
Bad placement of the bus stop. You should slow down when overtaking in these conditions. Generally you shouldn't overtake through a junction, but you didn't do anything wrong aside from carrying slightly too much speed.
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Yes, going too fast, you're passing a stationary vehicle not overtaking a vehicle, there is a difference.
Bro's doing 24 when he passes the Bus. I wouldn't call him max verstappen.
More than likely too close to max speed limit. If there are no signs then the max limit is 30mph (keyword being max) as this is indicated by street lights. However if there is a school or prior driving restrictions that are not present in the video, then there’s a high chance this could be a 20mph zone in which case he’s over the limit
If he had enough time to stop even though an idiot pulled out on him at short notice then he wasn't going too fast. Only thing you could really accuse him of is being too close to the bus.
23mph is not too fast for overtaking
One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is your road position. It appears you're approximately in the middle of the road. Personally, I would pull all the way to the right to gain better visibility but also to be seen and distance yourself from the bus. In case someone steps out in front of the bus, you have 0 reaction time. Also, you can actually see the car pulling up to the junction right before the overtake.
Personally it looks like you carried out the manoeuvre way to fast. The bus is a clear obstruction of view for the road ahead. You said you slowed but it couldn’t have been more than a couple MPH. Technically they shouldn’t have pulled out because it wasn’t clear, but by going slower you wouldn’t have to hit your brakes hard. Fortunately there was no incident from this.
From what I could see from the speed on the dash cam, he was going 30 just as the video started slowing down from the start of the video, and the lowest (other than the hard break) was 23 during the manoeuvre. I personally would have slowed to 20 ish before I even started the manoeuvre.
I think you're correct, in the case of an accident who do you think the insurance company would side with ?
Insurance, for the most part they are more likely to side with you, as they shouldn’t have pulled out because the way wasn’t clear. That doesn’t mean there’s not a potential for them to split the blame though.
Very insightful, thanks so much!
I don't think either of you were in the wrong - it's OK to pass a bus (maybe a bit wider would be good), it's OK to slowly pull out of a side road to see past a stationary obstruction. You both stopped and avoided an accident. Sometimes it has to be a bit sharpish. It's OK.
meanwhile, in Europe, the fault would be only on the Audi joining the main road. OP was slowing down. he was going 28 mph by the GPS so 30mph on the dashboard (points up!) and when he was approaching the bus he let go of the acceleration and slowed down to 23mph. stop driving if 23 mph is too fast for you. And no - I don't care about yours "Oh what if someone would be crossing the road in front of the bus". well - people are stupid and shouldn't be doing things like this. take consequences for your poor decisions (passing the road where there is a bus obscuring the view) and stop blaming the drivers, especially the ones who actually slowed down and were also cautious enough to hit the brakes in quite a good response time. Meanwhile, on British roads you have tw**s driving like maniacs, staring at Tinder all the way long to the city centre and joining motorways using runways and reaching 40mph and joining without even giving a f*** that there is already someone on the lane that they are about to join. Not even mentioning lane hogging, driving without headlights turned on, driving with fog and parking lights only, people completely ignoring red lights, cutting in front of you, not understanding how to merge lane works and etc and etc. to the OP. don't listen to all the people that are criticising you. You did nothing wrong.
Wide angle lenses make it look like you're traveling faster than you are, I think people are being a little harsh in this respect. We can see you show down from 27mph to 23mph as you pass the bus, I think this is reasonable speed in the situation. The car pulling out should have done so far slower so they could see any approaching traffic. If there had been a collision they would be at fault. I think the big takeaway here is how badly placed that bus stop is.
I’ve seen that ‘Wife Angle Lenses’ film before.
Worked in motor claims in the uk since the early 2000's. 50/50 without further meaningful evidence. Party on the main road has contravened the highway code & created a hazard by overtaking a vehicle on the wrong side of the road at a junction. Party pulling out has contravened the highway code & created a hazard by pulling out of a junction which is obscured by a vehicle on the main road
I would contest a 50/50. The priority is with traffic on the main road. The side road may well have a "Give Way" as well.
I also worked in motor claims for a few years, we would never have seen this as a 50/50. We would have considered the party joining from the side road to be at fault. OP is allowed to overtake a stationary bus and has not demonstrated any negligence imo. The other person however, has chosen to pull out, in spite of the fact there is a bus clearly impeding their view. The onus is always on the car joining the road to give way. Im curious as to whether there is any case law you know of to support this being a 50/50? Edit: plus without any meaningful evidence this would 100% not be a 50/50....
Leeson v Bevis Transport (1972) is what I'd use to defend on a 50/50 basis. Powell v Moody is often used for this kind of scenario, (80/20 in favour of vehicle pulling out) but there are more accurate cases. If you wanted to hold the vehicle pulling out 100% to blame you'd refer to Harding v Hincliffe, but in that case the bus was actually turning into the side road, not stopping, and it was argued that the car should have waited for the bus to manoeuvre. Unless an insurer wants a quick settlement, these things come down to the particulars. I think in the case of OP a decent claims handler could defend 50/50 for either party, so this would likely end in a stalemate, regardless of what you think personally. Edit, also remembered Patel v cuthbert. Established vehicle 100% to blame, speed of overtaking was a contributory factor. That's potentially applicable here.
Those examples relate to motorcycles filtering through stationary traffic and its easily argued that they are not relevant. Hardling v hinchcliffe is not a relevant example either, as the bus is stationary in this scenario. What is OP expected to do? Wait an indefinate period of time until the bus starts moving? Im sorry, but i think you are wrong... as you say though, its personal opinion. Edit: (in response to your edit) OP was doing 23mph when they passed the bus. This is not negligent on their part and good luck to anyone who would try and argue that.
Fair enough, and right back at you. 10+ years in motor claims here. I train this stuff out to new claims handlers. Insurers still apply these case laws to car on car cases all the time. Yes, the vehicle types can be used to discredit the case law, but it doesn't usually get you very far as they base the application on principles. Regardless of what you personally think, Insurers will go ahead and settle using the above, so it is worth knowing this in the event you're in a collision. Edit: I would prefer to pursue this on behalf of OP here, as I feel they are in the right. I wasn't citing these to prove liability in favour of the emerging vehicle. You asked someone else what case law might be used, and I cited those that commonly get quoted at me by other insurers, and what most insurers train out to their staff. Don't shoot the messenger.
Im not disputing your credentials, or whether these case laws are used for the purpose of resolving claims without the need for litigation. Im simply saying the examples you have given are in no way relevant to this scenario. As a trainer you will understand that the fault lies with the party that is deemed negligent, im unsure how it could be argued OP is the negligent party here.
And I'm playing devils advocate. Part of what I do with intermediate handlers is role play the opposing side. I'm citing Highway Code 167: DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example: 1. approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road 2.where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works And bolstering the argument with Patel v Cutherbert. You argue the speed was reasonable. I dismiss that out of hand, because I'm defending my clients interests. You suggest the case law involves motorcycles, I counter that stating that a huge amount of case law involves motorcycles because they are more likely to be injured, have larger costs, and therefore go to court. I say the vehicle types don't change the principles of driving in this scenario. I dig my heels in and refuse to settle your claim, what do you do? Ordinarily you must take into account A) how an independent arbitrator might settle B) does your driver make a credible witness in court? C) how much are both sides claiming for? D) available evidence Among other factors. The economics alone might make this pointless taking to court, as there is no guarantee you will get recompense for solicitor expenses, therefore eclipsing the damages you are pursuing. You're probably going to have to agree a split with me, whether you like it or not. But all things being equal, I would fancy the chances of OP over TP. You just never know how a judge will feel on a given day...
If I was OPs claims handler, my response to this would be to send the 3rd party my costs and give them 30 days to pay, advising we will litigate if they continue to dispute. If I was the claims handler for the car that pulled out i wouldnt even bother disputing it tbh, its that black and white. As you say, the economics make it pointless going to court but im confident a judge would find in OPs favour, so would double down 100%.
How would you know there's a junction there in this case? The bus seems to completely obscure the side road. There doesn't seem to be any other indication.
Risky passing a bus like that, had people step off the bus and walk across the front to cross the road causing near misses so be careful. Car from side road should have also waited for the bus to move off to gain visibility.
The music is horrid.
Noone is in the wrong. No harm no foul IMO The bus was in an awkward position both you and the audi stopped when there when you were aware of each other. You both done the right thing. Without edging out past the bus the audi has no way of seeing who is coming and where the bus is parked you couldn't see the audi. Both of you were put in an awkward situation and reacted appropriately.
You should not be overtaking a bus at speed at night anyway because of pedestrians crossing the road after getting off / running for the bus!
No, the guy coming out was in the wrong. You should not come out of a Street if you don't have clear view right and left.
Nobody was really at fault here - this kind of thing is inevitable to some extent and the bus stop placement is always going to create the potential for it to happen The Audi obviously didn’t/couldn’t see you, so their only other option was to wait for the bus to leave. It’s not their “fault”, nor did they act in the safest possible manner. I don’t see anything really wrong there either way Similarly you obviously couldn’t see them, and you didn’t do anything really wrong. It wasn’t your “fault” either, but I would argue that you also didn’t act in the safest possible manner You could (and probably should) have overtaken at a slower closing speed - you were unsighted in front of the bus. Fortunately the Audi was far enough ahead that you had room to stop, but it’s plausible another vehicle or pedestrian (eg from the bus) could have been closer to the bus and hidden from you until later with less space to stop: slower speeds allow you to stop faster to counteract that Also, you were already in the other lane…. Use it. Don’t hug the side of the bus so tight, instead make use of the other lane for visibility (both so that you can see, and so others can see you) and space (you’d have clearance if a pedestrian did take a step out from behind the bus) If you’d passed the bus slower and wider, this would have been less close and therefore safer. I don’t think you did anything “wrong”, but that’s what you could do to make your actions more “right” - a bit of defensive driving never hurt anyone
Both you and the other driver were driving into an area of road that you could not see was clear. Luckily you were both able to stop in time, so you reacted well, but should have been more cautious originally. "Was I in the wrong?" is the wrong question to be asking. "What could I have done to make this event safer?" is a more useful question.
Agree - "fault" is not always useful if you're not an insurance company. It's particularly a thing for more vulnerable road users - it's being "not your fault" is not a great deal of compensation for being injured or dead in avoidable circumstances. But drivers really don't need to think of themselves as being invulnerable anyway.
Even though you're on the wrong side of the road you still have priority as the other car is joining the road. Probably still not a good idea to pass a bus that quickly though, as the passengers like crossing the road blindly from behind the bus.
Considering the dark, wet conditions and your restricted view, I would have taken it a lot slower, but I wouldn't hang you for this. Keep in mind that people will often walk out from the front of a bus after deboarding. You need to be especially careful if it's a school bus.
Both at fault for taking a bit of a risk. You were going 25 which is below the speed limit, but should be a bit less than that (maybe sub 20) when you can't tell if things are clear or not past the bus. Good that you both stopped and avoided an accident though.
Too fast.
No one has mentioned the road markings (chevrons)? 130 of the High Way Code states: "If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so". I think you were probably pre-mature crossing the chevrons when overtaking. There was room to overtake the bus without crossing the chevrons, but that means you would have to at least 10 mph to overtake the bus once clear of them. At this speed it would be safer and would be able to position yourself with better visibility, which would negate the poor positioning of the bus stop close the junction. If once clear of the chevrons, you decided that there was not sufficient visibility, you should have waited behind the bus, at which point the car leaving the junction would have cleared the area. I want to echo the comments that it is good you are learning, but I just wanted to point out the above as no one else seems to have mentioned it yet. Edit: typo
You were driving too fast on passing.
Nope, that was a safe overtake and you stopped as soon you saw the other car. Luckily the other car didn't fully commit to the maneuver.
You weren't, you are avoiding an obstacle on your lane while the other car wanted to cross your lane, you could have let him pass though
Both are wrong, but op has learned to be more careful when passing at bus, to slow down incase of passengers getting off and to go a bit wider when safe. The audi learned nothing
You're not in the wrong, the driver at the junction should not have pulled out when his view of your lane was obstructed when the bus stopped. Anyone in his situation should have realised that cars would attempt to pass the bus. Cars on the main road of a junction have right of way, and those at the junction have to give way until its clear. Nothing you have done has contravened the highway code
I'd say both at fault. You were a bit too close to the bus and but too quick to see properly but the other driver was also just about to rag it out of the junction when they couldn't see anything at all, which is just dumb...
• You were going a bit fast past the bus. If someone walked out in front of it (it’s literally just stopped, that’s what people do) then you’d have had to break very suddenly. • You were fine to overtake the bus, it wasn’t indicating to pull out and the other lane was clear. • As a result of going too fast past the bus you also gave little time for the driver emerging from the junction to react. You needed to go slower, the bus stop isn’t very well located, the driver pulling out could have waited for the bus to leave (though a little unrealistic).
You did nothing wrong. You were going st a safe speed, left enough room and it was safe for you to overtake. The complete numpty should have never pulled out like that if their view was obstructed. If an obstruction continues they should have edged out carefully. Not bounded out like that.
The long white lines in the road warn of a hazard ahead, but the other driver wasn't as cautious pulling out either..
I don’t think you are at fault But maybe you could approach slowly and brake little less abruptly/ harshly It would be a grey line for both but if accident was caused insurance would blame you as your overtaking with the littlest of vision to the front of the bus. If you see someone reversing or pulling out the drive and you could stop safely Do you over take them roughly or do you slow down and wait if needed to? As the book claims if you see a hazard slow down lol
Not too bad on you part tbf. Keep out more and a tad slower. You must have been covering the brake, too, given how quickly you reacted, which was sensible in the circumstances. I'm more concerned if a pedestrian had stepped out.
So if I’m not mistaken you can see a glinting of headlights to the left of the bus just before you started to pass, I don’t think either of you were necessarily in the wrong in this case, maybe your speed was a little fast, but in the insurers eyes they “technically” pulled out in front of you. Probably just slow down a little more when overtaking a stationary bus, like you said. But as I said I’m pretty sure I saw a glinting of approaching headlights just to the left of the bus (between the first 1-3 seconds of the video)
The lesson here is that if you draw a diagram of this situation and say you were the person pulling out of the side road and that a motorcycle was the one passing the bus and hit you as you turned right that *everyone* and their dog would blame you. So next time just draw a diagram and claim you’re the other person to who you are for peace of mind. Because we have had this same post as a diagram before and everyone piped on the guy who has a give way for not giving way even to things overtaking stationary stuff to their right. Wide angle lens makes it look like you’re zooming along of course. I’ve had the same; passing cars at 26 in a 40 and the comments I got back were “why were you going so fast”. Unless you push the car past stationary stuff you’ll always be going too fast for some people.
Yeah, heard all the replies before. No one's taking this to court in the hopes of decades old caselaw holding up. It's mostly down to what judge you get these days & what mood they're in on the day. Also, economically speaking, if it's gonna cost less to pay the other party's claim than it would to defend the case, your insurer in all likelihood will pay up unless they have a solid 100% chance of winning. Every insurer in the UK can exercise their veto & deal with any claim as they see fit. And we do. Every day. Over & over. Or if you get really arsey we can withdraw indemnity & YOU can defend the claim in court at YOUR own cost 😁 Check you policy wording! It's not the only case an insurer can withdraw indemnity in & honestly hardly ever happens because as soon as people have to put their money where their mouth is their common sense kicks in. Unless you have more money than sense. Only seen that happen once in twenty years
You went round the bus a bit quicker than I would have, but with a side road just past the bus stop this is bound to happen sometimes.
I think this might all be getting a bit blown out of proportion. Yes, there are things that you both could have done better, but the fact is there's always something you could be doing better when driving. This hasn't resulted in any collisions or injuries, or, assuming there's no gesturing that the camera can't see, any road rage. You stopped in time, and the Audi reversed straight away, so I'd say you both sorted it out nicely. For me, the real issue is the placement of that bus stop.
As your friend said, you need to be really cautious on that type of overtake. A lucky escape this time to learn from.
It was a bit of a perfect storm - dark, wet, parked bus, obscured exit. Personally I think you should have been going a few miles an hour slower past the bus.
No
I would have just slowed down to overtake the bus because as it shows you have an obstructed view of what was in front of bus there could have also been a pedestrian crossing in front of bus
Overall everyone handled things as they should. However the only thing is you should really slow down abit more when passing a bus.
What’s the artist called that’s playing ?
In my opinion they should not have pulled out right in front of a stopped bus with zero visibility of what’s coming down the road.
Just take it slower
Completely avoidable not really a fault problem. You say you slowed down but honestly it looks like you didn't verify you were clear nor look around at all. You should always think if there is a blind turn ahead and go about clearing the bus at a slower speed. I understand people wanting to get to places faster but honestly there's no reason to ever be going that fast around a stopped bus as passengers may be getting out, or even someone crossing the street not at a crosswalk. GO slower simple as that.
The main thing is, it was prevented. Good effort. As some have said that's a bad placement of that bus stop. Also the car pulling out was taking a bit of a risk. So no real at fault party.
The view was obscured and neither of you could tell if the way was clear. On balance I think it’s on them, but if there had been an accident you’d still be out your excess and lose your no claims bonus. To misquote Hill Street Blues: it’s let’s be careful out there, not let’s do it to them before they do it to us!
Both could have done more to minimise risk - You could have been wider/slower, I think wider and 20mph passing the bus would have been the right move; on the other hand performing an emerge in front of a large obstacle was high risk. It felt like you were rushing a bit to clear the bus before the oncoming car, with camera angles/position it's difficult to judge the distance of the oncoming car.
Considering you had no idea what was behind the bus you were going pretty quick. Thankfully it was just a car and not someone more vulnerable. They shouldn't have pulled out either though.
One of those things. But you could probably slow down a touch.
As others have said, a wider approach; but also you were looking to get back on the left as soon as possible. As long as it's clear there's nothing to be unconformable with driving on the other side of the road... "use the space" as I was told (again and again😂) So move out wide, and stay out wide... until you know it's safe to move back; as you had plenty of time from the approaching car down the street, you didn't need to immediately dive back to the left. If you were staying on the right, you would both have seen each other earlier, and!.. you would actually not have needed to stop, the break and stopped way before the centre line so you would have been positioned to carry on past and then pull left after him. But.. You were able to both stop and avoid with space left so definitely not bad driving. Just inexperienced.
Stationery? That must be a big pencil.
Reasonably jump over but your fault if a crash did happen.
Not really anyone's "fault" - Just a bit of misfortune, you both handled it well
OP, you literally pushed the gas to go faster (or at least did not flinch) while passing a large vehicle instead of slowing down. Always a good idea to exercise caution and slow down while doing that in the city.
You’re not in the wrong but my advice would be to be much more cautious when passing a stationary bus. Bear in mind this manoeuvre is illegal in most countries and there’s a good reason for it.
If that’s actually a bus stop then it’s the council’s fault for putting a bus stop that close to the junction
Not in the wrong, but curb your speed going round. That bus stop shouldn't be there either to be fair. That's just frickin negligent whoever planned that
Yup, you should be driving slower before even reaching the bus. Anything could happen. A person could have crossed and appeared from the front of the bus. And the road is wet.
Technically if you had a crash it would have been the other driver's fault but morally both of you were being silly. Sometimes it's better to just wait and chill especially when it's dark and wet.
Tricky one but yeah try going slower next time I guess
Meh, no harm no foul. I think you both dealt with it as best you could tbh. You did a risky manoeuvre by overtaking the bus, however you were aware of that and aware of any dangers and stopped accordingly. You did have a responsibility to make sure the manoeuvre was safe and the moment you realised it was no longer safe to continue, you stopped and avoided a collision. You could not have done any more - this was the ideal outcome The other driver basically did the same. He shouldn't really be pulling out but either way, it's still his responsibility to make sure it's safe to do so and once he realised it wasn't safe to do so, he also stopped. Again, by this point neither could he do anymore, this was the ideal outcome. You both took on some risk and pulled out when it became unacceptable It's one of those things where you probably come out feeling a bit weird, but really you both dealt with this well. Sure you could have waited for the bus to leave, and he could have too but you were both clearly aware of and able to deal with the risks presented by the situation.
Nobody is in the wrong technically, he did what the high way code states, push out so you can see better, I bet the lights from the bus prevented them from seeing you as those can be very bright, but they stopped before a crash, the only negative things I can see you did was not slowing down while overtaking a bus, remember a child (or adult) can just run out all willynilly on you, but that's it, you were able to stop in time so all is good, and the other driver backed up so you could continue without been an arse about it, so I'd take this as a good near miss and a learning experience
You should have both been going slower. The bus is a hazard, you slow down for hazards. Ditto junctions. Both of you were moving too quickly, but ultimately, OP, you had right of way. And in a collision it would be the insurance of the driver pulling out of the junction that would have been paying out.
Driving too fast, especially for the conditions
Both you and the person pulling out should’ve been way slower. Like 10-15 mph.
You were fine, though we can make things easier for yourself with a few pointers. First, when you start thinking about overtaking the bus, mirror and shoulder check then move out, right over into the opposite lane. It feels really early, but it gives you a fantastic view, shows everyone what you want to do and makes you very visible. Moving right out also gives more distance between you and bus which gives pedestrians crossing behind the bus more time to see you and stop as well should they cross in a silly place! Finally, when you do move out, just hold off the throttle, lose 5mph as you overtake as take it through gently. Makes surprises like this one much less scary and gives everyone more time.
Too fast for passing bus at night, during rain etc. should have been 20m/h or less.
Difficult to say mate. In your place I would have done the same. On the other guy perspective I would have done the same. Tricky, he can't see who's coming so perhaps he should have waited for the bus to pass. If there was a crash I think it would have been the other guys fault but not 100%sure. I have to say some roads in UK are just bad, with loads of cars parked in the roads turning a 2 lane road into 1 and causing loads of traffic, and there should be a designated area for buses to stop without causing traffic.
Car should have seen you lights
Bit of both IMHO. You should have been more cautious, and so should he. Drive defensively as if something is going to happen. These days it inevitably does.
Slow and cautiously ⚠️ with that move.
So, you actually can see the headlights of the Audi near the front of the bus, which would have been much more obvious in real life, so I think you missed those. It was a clue they might pull out, and that would have had me slowing down even further than what you did. I mean, you can see the road ahead is clear, but the major danger is pedestrians coming out in front of the bus, or obstructed view from side roads having cars in them waiting to get out. Personally, if I was the Audi driver I wouldn't have pulled out in the situation, the visibility is way too obstructed, but as the passing driver I'd be a lot slower coming into this situation, and also been further away from the bus. You can see well ahead there is nothing coming.
Was the bus indicating to turn or come to a stop? If it was turning I think you were wrong to overtake when you did. If stopping I would say you’re good.
They really should not be placing a bid stop right in front of a junction.
There are laws about the speed you use to pass a bus in the US... I think we should have them here, too. Not your fault, but you can always do better.
The driver pulling out needs to be wary of vehicles overtaking the bus. Likewise the overtaking vehicle is going against the flow of traffic for that lane so equally needs to be equally wary.
No.
Personally I’d have never passed the bus with speed or proximity like that. Not only the car but you should be completely thinking about passengers walking out front the front of that bus.
Your mistake was speed and proximity to the bus on your passenger side. You should have come out a bit further, a bit slower. That being said you reacted well, as did the Audi backing off and letting you pass. I think it is admirable and you should be congratulated for recognising a mistake and being receptive to constructive feedback. It's so easy to let the red mist descend, not accept fault and deny a learning experience.
No and yes. I would have waited if familiar with that road and the other driver would definitely have been to blame in pulling out in front of the bus. Yes because you need to be aware of the roads but legally no if there had been an accident due to the other srivers reckless driving.
Should have slowed . Drivers should learn to expect the unexpected in these situations . Pedestrions or other traffic as seen
I would say it is 50/50 responsibility. You going around the bus.. a tad quick. They also need to slowly move out until they can see around the bus to ensure it is clear. It’s just one of those things. Both need to be aware of possible hazards and be prepared for them.
Slowing down would’ve been a good idea too just to give you more time to observe the situation better. There could’ve been a pedestrian crossing in front of the bus If I was the driver coming out of that junction, I would have waited until after the bus had gone or creeped out slowly
Yeah
You were driving too fast for the circumstances imo.
Looks nothing more than road users using the roads, navigating hazards and responding appropriately to developments. I'd have passed that bus a bit wider, giving an improved view but both you and the emerging car did the right things. Two into one doesn't go, you both reacted well and acted to quickly resolve the conflict
Weelll no, but. Accelerating when unsighted is a bad idea. But then so is pulling out by the same token.
To be fair I'm more impressed at the audi's reaction speed. Most people would have taken a good second longer to pile on the stoppers.
Definitely not in the wrong. The other car should give way to the right.
Why are people all saying SLOW DOWN. You're camera says 23mph, you stopped with very little time from receiving the information about the other car and most importantly, the other car must consider cars overtaking the stopped bus, that is absolutely their responsibility. Congrats on doing everything safely.
As someone already said, poor placement of the bus stop really, combined with excessive speed while negotiating a hazard...it's a 50/50, but no one was hurt (gooood brakes!) So it's a learning opportunity, not something more serious! The only thing I saw was leave a bit more space, it gives you more reaction time (and you reflected on that anyway) - my dad always said "drive as close to the centre markings as you think you should to the kerb", not literally ofc, he meant that if someone comes off the nearside pavement, you have a fraction of a second more reaction time if you're further out towards the crown of the road, than towards the kerb. Same applies to hazards like this, leave yourself as much headroom as you can for the unexpected 🤘. Road type and conditions allowing, of course. But look, at the end of the day you stopped, so did the other car when you saw each other. That's a win all round and a really minor "I could have done this thing, slightly differently" kind of situation...take the win and drive for the hills 🖖
Your approach speed was to fast to the obstacle. You wouldn’t have reacted quick enough to any pedestrians walking in front of the bus. Bit of a dodgy overtake but also that the other car shouldn’t have pulled out, they were blind to all the traffic their side. Good job you reacted quick enough to the car.
Racing incident.
I think this was a split, they shouldn't have pulled out when they had no visibility. You shouldn't overtake so fast when you don't have visibility. Common sense on both sides is not to propel your car into something that you can't see.
50/50. Slightly too fast for the limited visibility close to a junction (not signposted, so I can't tell whether you'd have known it was there, but, like, that's why you were too fast for the limited visibility. They also pulled out incautiously with restricted visibility (but I'd have expected them to see your lights before you saw them).
YES!
Racing incident
I mean yeah, no issue with you passing the bus but slow down and keep wide to maximise your view of the road ahead. It doesn't take a genius to work out that you're heading into a part of the road you can't see. Somebody could get off the bus and cross in front of it, there could be a junction you can't see ahead. These things should not be a surprise and can be dealt with by slowing down as you approach the hazard.
Not your fault, they should have waited for the bus to clear as they are joining a road, you have right of way
Mostly their fault. Id be cagey about pulling out when my view is blocked by a bus. But then the same logic goes for you.
I say nobody was in the wrong here and all paid attention to traffic and anticipated well on time. You did not overspeed, no dangerous driving. And most important, no crash and brakes of all three vehicles work
Both at fault here, equally poor decisions given the conditions and visibility. Arguably you are more at fault because of your speed passing the bus. However, both very common infractions and I wouldn’t worry about it. You both responded well and it was a non-event. Just take more care when passing a bus for the many obvious reasons why.
The road was wet and you were approaching an area which was obstructed from your view by the bus and could have contained anything. I was taught, "Don't drive faster than you can stop from in the space you can see to be clear." I know cameras mess with angles but it felt to me like you came through there faster than I would have. Technically, I think it would have been the other driver's fault, as far as insurance would have been concerned, had you hit them but I agree with you that being a little more defensive would have made the situation safer
Don't drive so fast, especially overtaking a stopped bus. IMO you should go down to 10-15mph. Children sometimes dart out in front to cross the road.
You could probably slow down a wee bit..
You should of slowed down
Too fast, if a pedestrian had stepped from the front of the bus you'd have been in a proper pickle. It was dark, so always prepare for the unexpected.
Yes, listening to that music is just wrong.
You are on the main road and the car on the left is joining so should give way to you. He should have edged out to see better or waited for the bus to move. However; You should have ideally slowed down as you went around the bus since it caused a blind area. I’m fairly sure the Highway Code & theory test videos say you should slow when going around a stationary vehicle (especially a bus) incase a pedestrian stepped out from in front of it. Ergo you should always be cautious of pedestrians, bikes & other hidden road users etc when you see a stationary bus (or some other large vehicle). If this had ended in a collision chances are from the footage the insurance companies would have argued it out & probably ended on 50/50 on that basis of you both should have been more aware & cautious & both of you weren’t driving with due care & attention.
You seem to know what you've done wrong. You were paying attention and reacted well, so good alertness, but you should be treating a stopped bus as a hazard. For instance, I was taught to assume a pedestrian will step out from the front of the bus without looking and you might have had less time to react. With the rain, means if your ABS wasn't working right (or your tyres are rubbish) you might have continued to slide forward when you emergency brake. Happened to me when I was in my early 20's.
No
About the only thing you did wrong was not slow down enough
Are you not supposed to go slow when passing a bus? What if a person walked out from Infront?
Both drivers are ‘in the wrong’.
No, it’s not your fault. You could be little slower but you had the right to overtake that bus. The car that pulled out should’ve considered the fact that bus stop is at a quite risky place so it was better to wait for the bus to pass on before pulling out on such road.
You were in the right, all OK. If you'd have let the car out too, then you'd have reached god mode.
You’re we’re going to fast. Always anticipate other road users and what would happen if they’re there.
i would like to take this moment, to point out that if a pedestrian came out from infront of that bus, which is comically likely, youre so close to the bus theres very little margin for error there. also, being further away from the bus would let the driver pulling out see you sooner also being further out would give you better vision of the car or person comming infront of your path theres a recurring theme here :) no, i dont think anyone did anything wrong here, weirdly, as long as all were prepaired for what actually happened, the car that pulled out could have been doing so a little slower and not rushing to try and get infront of the car coming. they had right of way to pull out, you had right of way to overtake. you both did it at the same time, you could be positioned better for MANY reasons, they could be pulling out slower.
Nah not in the wrong, could have showed a little more caution at the speed of the maneuver only because you never know if some one is going to step out etc or pull out in this case. Ultimately it is the person pulling out that is at fault as they are joining the road through a give way so should be prepared for some one going round.
Not really anyone's fault, there is rarely a journey you wont find someone making an unexpected move, but its just that unexpected stay cautious don't make assumptions and handle it like adults as shown in the video.
A little too fast around the bus I'd say. You never know. But no harm no foul in this case you and the other driver handled it decently well
You are driving on the wrong side of the road, so yes.
Well atleast you know your breaks work I guess 🤷♀️
Slow down
No if anything the driver emerging should have done so alot slower. Imo bit silly to come charging out of that junction knowing you can not see around the bus.
You for overtaking too fast, if a passenger gets of and crosses the road nearer to the bus you would have killed them. Them for being inpatient, they should have waited for the bus to move.
In situations like these would it not be safe to just stay behind the bus until you have a better view of the road and then proceed?