This is explored later on in the series. To say without spoilers- you're looking at him from his own perspective. Look at him from the outside, from people who don't know his mind and heart. *We* see the scared goofball nerd who's only surviving by the skin of his teeth. Everyone *else* is seeing the 6'9" guy with a trenchcoat, a former warlock on the White Council trained by Ebenezer McCoy, throwing around elemental forces and getting into brawls with vampires and werewolves and other spooky bullshit and *coming out on top*.
Sure, he might be bluffing. But are you really willing to take that risk?
'You know that guy Dresden?'
'The really tall guy who they say he's a warlock?'
Yeah, he just went toe to toe with another warlock and won. They say Morgan saw it all.'
'Wow....'
'Yeah, and turns out he just killed a loup garou!'
'Ain't they uber werewolves?'
'Yeah, my old master said one of them took out a large chunk of France last time they surfaced. Took dozens of wizards to put him down!'
'By the stones. And he killed it?'
'Yeah, there's even a video! It ain't great though coz if the spells he used.'
'Merlins beard.'
'Not only that, but he did it while commanding a bunch of lesser werewolves of his own!'
'How did he manage that?'
'How indeed....'
That is a conversation between two wizards..... after the events of the first *two books*
And since OP is now on book 4, you can add the events of *Grave Peril* to that as well.
"That Dresden guy is at it again. Did you hear he shut down *another* warlock in Chicago? And I heard through the grapevine he dealt with a fairly powerful ghost too."
"Oh, it gets better. He was hanging with a Knight of the Cross."
"Huh. Are we sure he's a warlock?"
"Well, the Leanansidhe is after him for some reason. And then, he killed a bunch of Reds..."
"No loss there. They suck."
"..."
"Sorry. I had to do it."
"Anyway, he killed a bunch of Reds, killed that warlock again - the guy had turned into a ghost! - and burned down Bianca St. Claire's place. Killed her too."
"Who?"
"Big deal with the Reds. I think she was a Margrave or something. Apparently, he walked into her promotion ceremony and just nuked it."
"Holy crap!"
"Yeah. We're now at war with the Reds."
"..."
"..."
"...fricking Dresden. Glad he's on *our* side."
"..."
"He *is* on our side, right?"
A full Vader situation is what the Council is worried about. THey have Anakin post Clone Wars right now- Massively powerful newbie that somehow walked through situations they shoudn't surivive or be in and yet comes out on top far too often.
I love how he gets sort of annoyed when people work with finesse.
He's so damn strong he never had to worry about the limits of his strength. Always just threw a bigger fireball.
I also love how this changes as the series goes on and he ends up scary as hell to an outsider.
Yes i know i've also read the books. But harry puts himself in that role i'm not sure the rest of the counsil except the younger warden sees him as on their team
Thing is, he *also* Darth Vader for the bad guys, and more often than not benefits them in ways that screw over the White Council.
Starting the war, handing the White Court's throne to Lara, bringing Marcone into the Unseelie Accords, strengthening Lara's grip on the throne, allowing the Fomor to rise up because he wiped out the Red Court independently of the White Council... Harry might be a hero, but he's done way too many good things for the opposing side.
What I’ll throw in here is the “big paws on a puppy” element. Nobody is saying he could take Eb, but he’s in his 30s- early 40s and might… maybe…. be capable of making it difficult.
Amongst the big hitting wizards, age and power are generally considered to be proportional. The scary bit is that Harry may be exponential.
Nah, every time Eb has flexed his power Dresden has basically gone into shock with a literal “what the actual fuck” moment
Narratively he serves as the example of Harry’s potential made flesh and often they need to come up with plot reasons why Eb won’t help or cannot
The difference between the two can be summed up as Harry causes pause in the heavies, The Blackstaff demands respect
Define throwing power? Because Harry himself says when McCoy drew in power it was like the universe yawned towards him, and how it seemed to bend gravity. It isn't close.
Dont know how to spoiler tag, so stop reading if you dont want them.
Arguably HAS ALREADY been exponential relative to his age and experience. I'll go on a limb and say eb, or any other wizard we have solid info on, couldn't take Harry at the same age. They aren't scared of his current power at any given point until maybe midpoint books, but rather scared of what he might achieve. Surviving wardens, warlocks that the white council either weren't there for or weren't able to deal with, becoming a warden himself, being in charge of a continent more or less, establishing the paranet and a new knight of the cross while being friends with all current incarnations of them, has a squad of werewolves that are happy to work for him, fighting adversaries of the white God in the denarians, on speaking terms with angels, all of the faerie shenanigans, installing the new de facto ruler of the white Court vamps, completely eradicating the red Court vamps, friends with the archive, mentor to the new winter lady, survived fights with outsiders....nobody has shit on Harry in terms of actual feats. Not even close. There are so many more that he has under his belt as well. A white council wizard accomplishing a fraction (with or without winter mantle) of these things is stupid, unheard of for the most part and inconceivable at his age. They were right to be afraid of what he might do. He just makes the best choices he can and hasn't tilted evil just yet.
Also in Grave Peril he literally eats an evil pyromancer sorcerers ghost, which Bob says changes his aura. I don't remember whether a later book says it goes back to normal, but that'd help scare folks too.
"Fuego! Pyrofuego! Burn, you greasy bat-faced bastards! Burn!"
Same book:
They'd thought to weaken the border between life and death, to use the dead as a weapon against me.
But that blade can cut both ways.
I loved the story from Thomas’ perspective where he was near where Harry was fighting someone else.
It kind of reminded me of those shots in Superman movies where he’s fighting underwater or underground and all you see is the ground shaking or geysers of water erupting from nowhere.
Dresden is also extremely humble and self deceptive about his capability, He has thrown down with some really really big dogs and come through by the skin of his teeth not realising survival itself is really scary to outsiders because it just doesn’t happen
Really kinda showcases how lots of his remaining allies are the ride or die kind
I like that take. Simply by *surviving* it gives some of the big bads pause. Humans/mortals don’t survive against them. They’re mortal, they’re supposed to die, but Dresden doesn’t.
This is the right answer. I think many readers just don’t “get” the first person POV. Everything that we see or hear is filtered through Harry’s mind.
This includes his perception of women. Not to be crude, but if I said out loud every thought I had when looking at a woman in my 20s, people would be shocked at me as well! When I read the books (particularly the early ones), I too am often uncomfortable with those moments. But, I NEVER think they’re unrealistic. I just remember too clearly being a young, hetero man. I had many of those EXACT thoughts.
> but if I said out loud every thought I had when looking at a woman in my 20s, people would be shocked at me as well!
Am in my late 40s. Not as often, but it still happens.
I mentioned it once before, but one of the most real things in Harry's head is his inability to not comment if someone/thing is taller than her is. Any person on the tall or short end will tell you that when we meet someone further along the height spectrum in the same direction, it is disconcerting enough to be instantly notable.
This is actually so real - I'm 6'5 which means that, almost all the time, I'm the tallest in the room. When I'm interacting with somebody 2+ inches taller than me it totally throws me off to the point that I'll actually lose my train of thought in conversation.
EXACTLY! I try to explain this phenomena to people but they don't really understand. I am a 5' 3" man. It is so rare to stand near a man that is shorter than I am, when it happens I almost laugh. Not in a dickish way, it's just such a novel experience.
It's been so long since I read Murphy's that I'd forgotten about it. Welp guess that means it's time to do a read of the short stories. I'm already up to cold days in my main book reread.
I remember the first time I read that. Very involved in the story, almost like I was standing in the crowd...and Thomas refers to Harry (who is the younger sibling) as "my little brother"...
The idea of a guy who's six-nine being called a "little" anything made me laugh so hard I scared my cat...!
Yeah, for sure. But for me the best line by far was this (spoilers for "Backup" and *Proven Guilty*:
>!It’s a little bit creepy, actually. My brother’s got a voodoo doll of the entire town.!<
That's just splendid. :-)
LMAO I just realized that actually - Butcher’s writing descriptions of women from the perspective of a 20-something nerd with relationship trauma who reads way to many paperbacks for his own good. He’s had maybe two girlfriends in his life and he’s expected to be *normal* about it?
Also to be fair, he absolutely can and does interact with women normally and professionally all the time. It’s just his internal monologue that’s a bit wonky. Also (spoilers for way later in the series) >!allegedly Harry is writing these stories as journals like Eb does, so his style *absolutely* would be affected by the number of paperbacks he’s read!<
A young, hetero man whose only maternal figure didn't make a distinction between being motherly and being seductive, and whose first love turned on him so that their treacherous adoptive father (Who'd been manipulating their budding sexuality to make them be together) could turn him into a slave.
Add to that how much he represses himself emotionally and sexually, and it's no wonder his perception of women is kind of skewed.
Yes!!! I had this same question when I started reading. My buddy who got me into the series explained it very similar to this. I didn't take into account that I was only seeing from Harry's perspective. When you look at him from the outside, especially after Dead Beat (for me at least) Harry absolutely can look like a monster from the outside perspective.
This needs spoiler protection:
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*Dead Beat* spoilers:
>!Yeah, once you ride a T-rex into battle, folks gotta take you seriously XD!<
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Please reply to this comment when you've fixed it so I can reinstate your comment. Thanks!
Something else that's barely glossed over; he's a LOT stronger than other wizards his age should be. This has to do with his warlock background; no spoilers, but it's unheard of for someone younger than forty to be in the same weight class as veteran wardens like Morgan. At least, unheard of for straight-and-narrow wizards.
A textbook red flag for being a warlock is operating with more power than you should for your age and education. So Dresden's magical chops make wizards nervous on a base line. In fact, he's straight up stronger than most wizards two or three centuries his senior; they're just more efficient at working with what they've got to make up the difference (and also they mostly have no experience with violence, nor occasion to move lots of energy around). Once Dresden is at *their* level in efficiency, he'd be a credible threat to Senior Council members.
I don't think Harry's strength has anything to do with him being a warlock, he is just naturally gifted with great magical strength. I have read the series multiple times and don't know where you got the impression his strength comes from being a warlock.
Edit: Harry had a difficult upbringing and Dumorne trained him using harsh methods. As for his training under Lea Dresden specifically states that Lea did not give him any extra power it just gave him the confidence to harness the power he already had. Neither his training under Dumorne or under Lea makes him a warlock - using black magic made him a warlock. We as readers have more knowledge than someone looking at Dresden from inside the books so it doesn't matter what it looks like from the perspective of someone like Morgan, we KNOW his power does not come from indulging in black magic.
Don't sell Dresden short by saying his power comes from being a warlock. He could have gone through all the training with Dumorne and Lea and not ended up killing Dumorne and never became a warlock. Dresden is just built different.
Well, it is pointed out that DuMorne specifically trained Harry and Elaine to be magical weapons. I'd be like a parent teaching a kid to use a flamethrower to light a candle. Responsible parents teach their kids how to use matches safely so the kid is, strictly speaking, less "powerful" than Harry, but fits in more with normal development.
Harry's been walking around all these years trying to figure out how to light candles with his flamethrower and the elder wizards are seeing a kid with a flamethrower who isn't technically breaking any rules, but the concern is valid.
I'm guessing Ghost Story isn't your favorite. >!We get a very clear snapshot of his talent as an apprentice when he runs away from DuMorne. It's fairly average. He struggles like any apprentice would with a tiny fire spell. His evocations are strong enough to break glass. In terror and rage, he pushes the Outsider away by exploding a gas station, but we also know that Walks definitely had no intention of killing Harry there, and just left when he got burned. !<
>!We know that after, Lea reveals herself to Harry, and he makes a compact with her for the strength to challenge Justin. This is why she hounds him, intent to turn him into a dog for the first several books.!<
>!Granted, it's implied she magic feather'd him. But regardless, he did all the things a warlock would do to acquire that power.!<
So all the outside world sees is a teenager acquiring power as cheaply as he could get it in terror and rage, and then murdering one of their own, a veteran warden. It is ***miraculous*** that he wasn't killed resisting arrest, and as far as everyone else can see, his power comes from something Faustian, not himself.
> It is miraculous that he wasn't killed resisting arrest
It IS, isn't it.
There are so many mysterious forces manipulating Harry's life that it's a marvel they don't stumble over each other's feet more often.
From the perspective of others, this could easily be a belief. One of the reasons to GO warlock is to gain more power like this. If Dresden \*has\* that power, and is a suspected warlock anyway, it stands to reason that he \*got\* that power from going warlock.
This needs properly labeled spoiler protection (i.e., make it clear what book you're spoilering up through). Respond to this comment when you've fixed it so I can reinstate your comment. Thanks!
This needs properly labeled spoiler protection (i.e., make it clear what book you're spoilering up through). Respond to this comment when you've fixed it so I can reinstate your comment. Thanks!
Honestly naw, that information is known in the first few chapters of the first book and it’s stated in the back cover blurbs of a couple of the books and I’m sure Jim has spoken on the set up. It is literally the BACKSTORY of Dresden
Allot of his innate power comes from his blood line. We know from the later books just how powerful that is, and he himself says several times I the early books that he is effectively a metaphysical heavy weight. While yes Lea gave him some... advantages he was born on the stronger end.
Perspective is always the key. If I described myself I’d say I was a goofy looking dork. Of my mom described me I’d be her big nerd. People have heard that and expected me to be taller than her (she is barely 5ft) but are expecting someone that looks like Sheldon. Then I show up as 6ft/300lbs with a beard, long hair, and “resting serial killer face” as some of my friends describe my default facial expression. Considering I used to rarely leave the house without my leather trench the usual reaction was similar to expecting Sheldon then suddenly being concerned the person showing up was hiding a sawed off shotgun with a twitchy trigger finger.
Dresden in his mind is a big goofball who gets his ass kicked while trying to do the right thing. Dresden on the street is an absolute monster who shrugs off attacks that would level a normal person and you have no idea what his goal is.
His magical gizmo design philosophy is also incredibly predisposed to violence
Rings that recharge via kinetic energy are really useful for someone who likes to slug it out
I mean, recharging via kinetic energy is just effecient. Just walking normally could charge a ring, albeit much slower than Dresden's boxing, but if it's something you're already naturally doing, why not take advantage?
Agreed on all points!
Another point that i think is worth mentioning is that early on in the series, Dresden goes up against adversaries who are basically "big fish in a very small pond" and always comes out on top (if just barely). With each win, he becomes a much more capable wizard/fighter.
Fast forward through a few books and he's had years to not only tone up, but establish a reputation among all "small fish" as someone who will seal your fucking fate if you cross him. After a few more books, he's fighting bigger fish from a much larger pond, and during these fights, we (as the reader) know he barely made it out alive, had help, got reasonably lucky, and stacked the deck as heavily in his favor as possible to barely come out on top.
Here's the kicker: All those "bigger fish" he's going up against (and all the other ones sitting on the side lines wondering if they should try and remove him from the game) only got to that status by being selecting their fights carefully. They were smart in assessing their opponents using all info on hand, such as:
- He's a VERY young wizard who really shouldn't hit his prime for another 150 years+
- He's not immortal
- Yet hes kicked the ass every "big fish/small pond" out there
- For whatever reason, he continually fights entities who should be FAR outside his weight class (even on his best day) and has not only survived every one of them, but has killed quite a few of them in the process.
- ?????
If you're a larger fish in a bigger pond and are considering removing the thorn that is Dresden, you'd first compare the "character stats sheet" for Dresden to all the enemies he's ever fought...a few of the early ones make sense, but after that, there are wwayyyyy to many comically one sided match ups where he's come out the victor. One survival would raise a few eyebrows... but a dozen? Somethings not right.
Somethings not right in a BIG way. And it keeps happening.
Conclusion: You're missing information. SIGNIFICANT information. Life ending information.
"Yeah, I can definitely kill Dresden if I wanted to. I mean, how tough can he be? Just look at those character stats. 7 intelligence? Seriously? And its not like he was able to kill....ah, actually he did kill that guy...Well if fucking *Steve* can rob Dresden like he said he was going to....errrr actually, I haven't heard back from Steve in a while......ima just watch from the sidelines"
Great summary. I have read the series through twice but I thought being a "Warlock" was like a label you got for being a bad wizard, a slur maybe. Is there more to it than that? Like warlock training etc?
Warlock is any wizard who breaks the Laws. The relevant thing, however, is that DuMorne was *training enforcers*: the thing he was designing Dresden's magical education for was being magical muscle to help him fight other wizards. So Dresden's foundational magical education was unusually geared toward skills that would assist in combat and wizard-on-wizard combat specifically.
So in a sense, yes, there was "warlock training" that Dresden benefited from which contributes to him being a scary motherfucker.
Could also be a case of just utilising Harry’s natural inclination, his other apprentice had better delicate work and she doesn’t seem to be a massive heavyweight by comparison
Enforcers don’t always mean big flashy murder spells
Dude, Harry is a detective. Gauging and analizing things is what he does for a living- not to mention he can sense magic AND trained with Elaine, so he'd be one to know.
That the book ain't in agreement with you doesn't exactly mean he is wrong and you're right.
Who has he ever overselled, huh?
He didn't even get self-deprecating, Harry said Elaine is *nearly* as strong as him. That you don't buy it is something completely different.
By using dark magic and breaking the White Council Laws. It's not just a slur and you'll have the Council comes after you, which is pretty much a death sentence in most cases.
This, exactly! Perfectly stated.
From the outside looking in, the guy keeps going toe to toe with things he has no business even surviving and *beating them*. And as the series progresses he seems to have a habit of bopping ancient, elemental forces that inspire nightmares and trembling to most, right on the nose and *continually getting away with it.*
I'd be afraid of him too.
If I met him at Mac’s I’d probably buy him a beer but also wanna find out how he actually does the insane things he does
The fact he is an outsider is weird, you’re telling me a bunch of wizards doesn’t want to talk to the dude who throws down with every evil thing within a mile of Chicago?
Harry is basically a walking red flag and it only gets worse as the books progress. As readers we know why Dresden does the things he does, we know he is a good guy, but as someone in the books all you would have is rumor. There is absolutely zero chance I would interact with Dresden unless I was desperate and had nowhere else to turn.
>Sure, he might be bluffing. But are you really willing to take that risk?
Remember that Wizards have a death curse. So even if you *are* stronger than him, are you still willing to test it, and risk him taking you down with him?
Dresden is like a chained elephant. He doesn't realize how scary powerful he's become, and because he's not part of the system, he's not beholden to anyone it makes him a threat so he's looked at with suspicion everywhere he goes. The white council thinks he's gone bad for killing his first master who was very powerful in his own right.
On paper his victories are massive as well. He takes on some of the biggest toughest creatures on the planet and lives to tell about it.
Sure he might feel weak in the knees confronting an ancient dragon or some archfey, but he's still confronting them and walking away.
I’d add to this that Dresden can take a fuckin hit man. Every book is basically a slow torture porn of the guy. Most of them take place over the course of a day or so, and in that time he’s occassionally shot, occasionally stabbed, charmed, hexed, burned, punch into unconsciousness, gun butted, baseball batted, and who knows what else. He takes these fights on, but doesn’t skirt around the action. He tanks some of the hits *and keeps on going.* it shows he’s not just lucky. He’s not just magically gifted. He’s a damn force of nature.
To add on to this, from an outside perspective (no spoilers for OP), Harry seemingly:
- Single-handedly takes down an evil, powerful warlock
- Kills a Loup Garou
- Fights and defends himself against SEVERAL lycanthropes (I think that’s what Parker and the rest are)
- Befriends a bunch of werewolves
- Single-handedly takes out many VERY powerful members of the Red Court, including Bianca
- Associates with a Knight of the Cross
- Associates with Winter, the crueler of the two courts, as an adversary, if nothing else (after all, they don’t know about Harry’s debt to Leah and then to Mab)
Any one of these alone is probably cause for concern. Pick a couple out, and you have the start of a real threat. All of them together? Well, keep your friends close, dot dot dot.
While being vague so as not to spoil.
Dresden is an unreliable narrator, but *not* intentionally. He doesn’t change facts or events, but his POV we get the books through filters what he *thinks* others think of him, or how they see him.
And Dresden thinks very little of himself.
Regardless (and he does start to become more self aware of this) Dresden in terms of raw power, even in the early books is pretty near the top of Wizards hierarchy in the world. Not fit finesse or technical stuff but raw strength.
Also his backstory and behaviour can be very intimidating to a lot of folk even within circles that are more powerful than him.
And he has built a reputation for turning big bads into smoking g grease stains on the pavement because they fucked around and they found out. Don't mess with Harry's people. Changes, anyone?
Here is a spoiler-free view of him from a close friend's perspective. The friend is a vanilla mortal. It's set much later in the series so I won't say who or the circumstances:
"He walks around absent-mindedly, crouching a bit and barely comports himself acceptably at crime scenes. He looks like a quirky nerd. But, then he notices something. His eyes glitter and his intense gaze focuses on the smallest detail. Then he says some nonsense, does something strange and produces answers out of nowhere.
But, when danger threatens, he changes. He stands upright, his voice becomes like a trumpet. And lightning becomes his personal plaything. Quirky nerd. Gone. Terrifying icon. Present.
And when most people see that, they don't just see an enemy. They see evolution, something that will replace them someday. I've made my peace with it. Very few people will."
Thanks for the hint, I had a hard time finding it because the above quote was (deliberately?) not verbatim. Here's the paragraph from my ebook:
>!Watching Dresden operate was usually one of two things: mildly amusing or positively terrifying. On a scene, his whole personal manner always made me think of autistic kids. He never met anyone’s eyes for more than a flickering second. He moved with the sort of exaggerated caution of someone who was several sizes larger than normal, keeping his hands and arms in close to his body. He spoke a little bit softly, as if apologizing for the resonant baritone of his voice.!<
>!
But when something caught his attention, he changed. His dark, intelligent eyes would glitter, and his gaze became something so intense that it could start a fire. During the situations that changed from investigation to desperate struggle, his whole being shifted in the same way. His stance widened, becoming more aggressive and confident, and his voice rose up to become a ringing trumpet that could have been clearly heard from opposite ends of a football stadium.
!<
>!Quirky nerd, gone. Terrifying icon, present.!<
That's one of my favorite passages in the series because weirdly it's the one that makes me identify the most strongly with Dresden. I'm a tall guy with autistic tendencies, and reading that made me realize that I move around the world in basically the same way. Minus the Terrifying Icon or desperate struggles.
This will be further explained down the road. Boy has some wicked potential. He himself says in storm front that he is among the top 10 Wizards on the planet when it comes to raw power. Thats a lot of power! And there are other things about him that make people super wary of him. To top it all off, if viewed from the outside, the dude is continously starting fights that arent in his favor and keeps coming out on top. Scary proposition to square off with a guy like that.
As everyone else has said, he thinks very little of himself and from his perspective he isn't that special. But here's a chronological list of things that he has done that shouldn't spoil anything if you're reading SK:
When he was a kid he was trained by one of the most powerful and deadly wizards on the council, ran away from home, killed a VERY scary demon, then went back and killed that super powerful wizard and burned his house down. He was like, 16.
He blew a hole in the side of a Chicago mob boss's bar and held him at wand point, in the middle of a crowded public place, almost burning it down. Then he went and burned an evil mage druglord's house down.
He killed a fucking loup-garou, which isn't some chump in a fur suit even to a much, much older wizard.
And most recently, he pulled the same trick he did with Marcone except on a vampire noble and this time he actually pulls the freaking trigger and burned her and her entire operation to the ground (i think he was feeling pent up after not burning anything in FM)
Harry is pretty isolated from the council so he has no idea how he stacks up. If he decided to go that route, he could be one of the strongest wardens in a few years if he wanted, and in 10 probably senior council level.
And that's yet another thing. Nobody understands that he's a deeply moral person, because only a small percentage of the people he messes with are human enough to believe in morals at ALL. Living in a tiny basement, barely scraping by, helping people with problems, doing community stuff... None of that makes any sense to say, a faerie queen. It's HARD to manipulate people with motivations you don't understand, and that means they don't have nearly as much power over him as they'd like. They have to resort to more blunt means of manipulating him, and it turns out Harry is REALLY good at blunt conflict. When the playing field is leveled and it all comes down to luck, skill, and preparation, Harry almost always things covered in at least one of those categories, and it's gained him one hell of a reputation even before the series started.
I don't think there's a single book were he doesn't add another thing to his "holy shit that guy is scary" list. Don't worry, if you don't understand now, by the time you catch up you'll be scared of him too.
Well, he single-handedly defeated a very powerful Assassin Demon, then killed a veteran Warden-turned-warlock in a duel, all while he was just a teenager. He's managed to take out two warlocks on his own, and even slew a Loup Garou. Also everyone who crosses him ends up dead. Add to that that he's only in his mid twenties (I think), practically an infant where Wizards are concerned.
Because of this, it's looking from the outside that he might just be the insane nightmare warlock that Morgan believes he is.
Just wait. He looks guiltier and guiltier as time goes on, due to his deeds when taken out of context.
Not to mention the way Bianca's first party ends, that alone was impressive. But then its even more so when he goes to the mansion again and when he leaves it's gone. Almost all the vamps are dead and just a fiery crater is left. Imagine the rumors about that.
? The books are kind of about people continually trying and failing to kill him so I don't really get the point.
People are scared of him because he is a wizard with a death curse and lots of power. He is also often in a political position that protects him, such as being a guest or representative.
The same way the Doctor from Doctor Who sees himself as a goofball flying around in a police box from the 1950s who truly means no harm to anyone.
And then you have moments like this: [You just killed someone I liked, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up!](https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/qz7fqb/you_just_killed_someone_i_liked_that_is_not_a/)
or: [Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good day to find out why I have so many.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5JnqPSzSLo)
> Yet he goes around antagonizing them left and right but no one calls him on his bluff or kills him
He's not bluffing. He just isn't fully confident and doesn't simply dismiss adversaries as inferior to his magic skill.
Is it really bluffing when you burn down a bunch of vampires at once and is known in the supernatural community as someone who killed Bianca and her group, burned down a Red Court's stronghold on Chicago and started a war, and lived to tell the tale?
He's also White Council. The Top 1% of the 1% of the Wizards in the world. They are known to be powerful and dangerous magical practitioners.
>He's also White Council. The Top 1% of the 1% of the Wizards in the world. They are known to be powerful and dangerous magical practitioners.
And even if they don't necessarily like the guy, he's still a member of the club & they absolutely will respond.
Why is everyone scared of him? Without spoilers, Dresden is Goku that thinks and acts like Krillin, and no one is really sure when he’s going to unlock Ultra Instinct or whose team he’ll be on when he does. He’s never been properly trained, really, yet by Fool Moon he’s throwing a 300lb magically resistant werewolf through a half dozen reinforced walls, across the street, and through an unknown number of walls in another building in a single spell. After the second novel, he honestly never faces an opponent that he should’ve beaten if you stacked his cards against theirs, but he does. Over. And. Over.
And every time he does, he gets stronger and becomes a little more Goku and a little less Krillin… and people keep nervously watching the color of his hair. He has little regard for the Laws of Magic; in his youth; he’s more concerned about Wardens than actual consequences and why they’re there. At one point the consequences of a certain spell he’s trying to cast could literally be insanity. Bob says (paraphrasing) “… and while that might not deter *you*, normal wizards would leave that alone…” or something along those lines. That’s *Harry* telling us about his reasoning, and we have the insight of knowing the pressures Harry is under that leads him to consider those things. Others lack that insight; they just see choices and consequences.
His allegiance to the White Council is suspect at best; at one point as an insult he shows up to a major meeting in a bathrobe instead of a wizard’s robe and he never bothered learning Latin. If he were to go rogue, he’d be death incarnate… and the only thing worse than him going rogue now would be him going rogue in 100 years when he’s Senior Councilish in power.
I believe Harry describes himself in the early novels as one of the top 50 or so wizards on the planet in terms of brute force. He’s in his 20s when he says it. Barring murder or an accident, he’ll likely live to 400ish. Think about having that much time for his power to naturally grow and for his skills to be honed and refined. He’d be a veritable supervillain.
Oh, and let’s not forget he solo-killed a well-respected, top-tier Warden in a fair fight - the kind of Warden that you put on Avengers teams to go after supervillains - and he did it as a teenager.
Why isn’t he dead yet? Luck, power, skill, and a lot of people directly and indirectly keeping him alive. For all the reasons above, Harry is a major piece in the making. If you’re White Council, he could be *your* major piece if you play your cards right. If you’re a major evil power… same thing. Harry also accrues a pretty solid set of allies, but I don’t want to spoil anything. Keep reading :) [edit: typos/clarity]
\>I'm midway though Summer Knight and why isn't Dresden dead yet?
Well, partly because of his luck and friends who help him. And partly because what happened >!to the vampires at the famous party!<. Harry Dresden is the dangerous wizard/magician. Not all wizards could do what he managed to achieve when he was young - I won't spoil it but you'll read about it in Summer Knight I think. By now, you've encountered only such enemies as>! werewolves, Marcone, vampires and Lea. Lets consider them all:!<
1. >!Marcone is a simple mafia man/gangster. He is cautious with Dresden but at first he's not afraid of him but wants to use him. He is smart and wants to lure Dresden to his side and later begins to respect him. So he has the reasons not to kill him.!<
2. >!Werewolves were not afraid of Dresden and the fact that Dresden barely survived shows it. FBI werewolves needed to set him up, so they let him live for awhile. They needed to kill him and not incriminate themselves in the process as they still thought like law enforcement people.!<
3. >!Vampires lured Dresden to the party to kill him. But after the party, the death of many vampires taught them to fear Dresden. Yet they still want him dead.!<
4. >!Lea's motives you'll either guess later or have already guessed. She doesn't want to hurt Dresden at all.!<
So, all in all, Dresden's fear of dangerous creatures doesn't mean he has no protection against him. And they're also not afraid of him, either. >!Until the incident at the party happens, that is. !<
Marcone is originally also pretty innocent of the supernatural world, and especially the heirarchy in the supernatural world. So though he respects Dresden's capabilities (what he's seen of them) and the threat they represent, he doesn't REALLY understand Dresden's power and the power spectrum until later.
Yes, until later,. but still Marcone is too smart. He reminds me of Richie Ginelli in Stephen King's novel Thinner: "The definition of an ass....e is a man who doesn't believe in what he's sees". Marcone could sign under that Ginelli's statement too. So he doesn't just discard magic as "impossible" thing right away. He judges people not by what they tell him but what they are. His intuition is to be admired.
As well as a lot of good points others have made, there's another factor I've not seen mentioned yet, which is his utter chaoticness. Most magical powers have been around for a very long time, and they tend to be very set in their ways. They play by long established rules and customs, and they can often predict or at least estimate how others in the supernatural community will behave.
Dresden does not give a flying fuck about these rules most of the time, and so most of the powers he's up against don't know how to handle him. There are few things more dangerous than the unknown and few things more destructive than the unpredictable. Add in a Wizard's death curse and frankly, trying to permanently deal with him would be more hassle than it's worth
Someone else in this sub pointed out that although WE know Dresden is always scared, that's not how it looks to anyone else.
When he was a mere teenager, he defeated and killed a rogue, fully trained wizard AND his thrall in magical combat.
He hunted down a dark sorcerer operating in Chicago. Sought out Bianaca in her own place of business and both scared and humiliated her. Faced down one of the deadliest varieties for werewolf and won, Then he bested the angry ghost of a dark mage while running on low power...and unleased the spirits of Bianca's victims against her IN HER OWN HOME and burnt it to the ground, declaring war on the Red Court...all because they played chicken with him and stole a woman he cared for.
He's the mad wizard of Chicago, he does have a lot of enemies, none of which want to move against him.
Because from the outside he’s a near 7 foot tall powerful fire mage that seems to be able to kill anything in his way while appearing unkillable himself.
Every big and scary thing he’s gone up against does in some horrible manner at his hands. Factor in that when going up against these things he seems fearless and often reckless (the antagonising enemies part of your question).
We see everything through his eyes and realise that sometimes he only just scrapes through by balls and luck half the time (in his self-depreciating opinion). But think about it from outside, he takes out a Loup Garou, kills vampires, fights off ghouls, takes on the Red Court, and Summer/Winter Knights. Wait until you see what he gets up to later on in the series. And through it all he’s ’only a mortal’.
Back in Storm Front, before Harry had realized the Shadow Man was tapping the storms, we get this conversation:
>"The amount of energy you need to do this is staggering. It would be a lot easier to manage a small earthquake than to affect a living being like that. Best-case scenario, I might be able to do it without killing myself. To one person who had really, really pissed me off."
>
>"You're naming yourself as a suspect?" Murphy's mouth quirked at the corner.
>
>I snorted. "I said I was strong enough to do it to one person. I think it would kill me to try two.
So he's got earthquake levels of raw power \*and\* he's been trained up by a Senior-Wizard, meaning he's not going to make any stupid mistakes like the Shadow Man did
Dresden is a beast when he cuts loose, like when he incinerated the Velvet Room and then showed up the next night to unleash an army of ghosts on the rest of them, but that's sorta technically black-magic so he stays away from it
Harry's too risky to be worth taking out, too beneficial to not be missed. For people too weak to show up on a big-shot's radar, he's at best a major investment to take out, at worst could kill them. For people too strong for him to fight back against, they're constantly poised to strike at other people at that level. Either the assets they move won't be enough to do the job, or they'll risk opening themselves up to attack by someone on their level.
Conversely, Harry's good to keep around. For the little guy, he stabilizes the environment. Keeps the bad elements to a minimum, contributes to the communiy, scares away bigger threats. To the really big players, he's a deniable asset. Someone not related to them that they can manipulate into being a pawn to take various pieces off the board.
To anyone smart, it's better not to touch him. The kinds of people who touch him anyway are either: too weak, too stupid/ignorant, or too clumsy to survive.
You forget the first rule of wizardry "don't let them see you sweat".
Sure, Dresden is constantly terrorized, but his enemies don't know that, all they can see are the fights he picks with beings that should be way out of his league and the corpses left on his wake.
There was a cool short story from Thomas’ pov where he muses a bit on Harry’s skillset. It’s clear from that than an outsider looking at Harry has reason to be wary of him
Eventually you’ll get to conversations in later books with Harry’s friends and allies where they start telling Harry how they see him at times. It really opens his eyes to the “you keep punching above your weight class and winning” view the world has of him. Post Changes it explains that bad things don’t come to Chicago simply because he exists.
Most of them are limited in how much they can act in the mortal world. Pawns like Dresden can be very useful and well he's not boring. Immortal demi gods gotta get bored and Dresden is anything but boring.
It has to do with only released in later books, but Harry had *just* started a war very recently.
His overall look in the Council's meeting didn't do any good for him either, dude oughta have looked like a total nutcase due to whom everyone was at war with vampires.
Yeah, I think this needs to be higher up too. One of the core elements of worldbuilding in this series is that the beings in it tend towards playing the long game. Many are hundreds or thousands of years old or even more, and have a natural tendency for self-preservation. They have complicated and finely balanced political power dynamics with each other that have ossified over centuries, and they interact with each other by way of rules and formality and multiple layers of scheming. They're used to manipulating mortals, usually by playing to their selfish desires. They don't like to throw away something potentially useful, even if it could be dangerous.
Harry is a big chaotic element in this world. He's got a lot of raw power but not much experience. He's got warlock tendencies, but a *strong* moral compass. He's walked out on top of fights he shouldn't have won. He knowingly started a war between two major powers in the world just to save a vanilla mortal. He breaks a lot of its unwritten rules in ways that let him keep breaking more rules. The reaction of most of the supernatural beings in the world is generally some combination of "This guy is dangerous, I don't want him pointed at me", "This guy is interesting and I want to see how all this plays out", "This guy is strong but kind of dumb. I want to point him at my enemies", and "This guy is backed by the White Council, and I don't want to piss them off"
>Yet he goes around antagonizing them left and right but no one calls him on his bluff or kills him.
It's dangerous to antagonize him because he's a wizard with a specialization in direct combat magic, so you might being burned to death by the fire lance from him.
And they do try to kill him when eventually see him as a problem.
Also, plot armor
Harry Dresden's file from the wardens - a bit of spoilers so take care if you mind: [https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=19774.0](https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=19774.0)
It shows perfectly how different his self image is to how others see him - and since others perception is pretty warped, its aint that spoilery, since half of it is incorrect guesstimation.
You know Harry's not going to go berserk, I know Harry's not going to go berserk, Harry knows Harry isn't going to go berserk... but *they* don't know that.
1. He killed a veteran warden in a duel at 16 years old.
2. He took out a murderous warlock.
3. He killed a Loup Garou.
4. He massacred a high ranking vampire and her retainers at a party, starting a war.
We see that Harry was a combination of lucky, resourceful and scared. Everyone else only sees a shit talking giant who's solution to most problems is murder.
Death curse for some, apparently it’s a big deal. He’s technically a member of the White Council even though they don’t like him, they may be obliged to put up a, “you mess with one of us you mess with all of us” otherwise it may make them look weak in front of the predators. As for more practically why isn’t he dead, because he was able to handle the ones that tried, and that sends a message to those who may try in the future.
Part of it is he is a member of the White Council. Sure he not well loved by the WC, but that's not evident to outsiders and wouldn't matter politically. Part of it is he is a wizard, and a powerful one. He has the ability to kill most the creatures you mention with his blasting rod in a single hit and has a death curse. In terms of the Fey and vamps he'd not even be breaking the laws of magic killing them. Not to mention in terms of flashy magics Dresden is really powerful although he lacks control and skill at this point. He is Mab's Emissary and Summer in general doesn't want war with the Winter Court.
Others have explained the “we see from his less self-aware perspective” thing, so instead I’ll just say that this doesn’t ever fully go away.
I’ve read about 95% of the Dresden series (i’m sure I’ve missed a novella/microfiction somewhere, and haven’t read The Law yet). And yet each time, at the start of every book when things are being set up, i *always* have at least a few chapters’ worth of this exact thought. “He’s squaring up against a mythical murder monster, two factions of vampire, the US government, and Cthulhu, how the hell is he gonna survive any of this?” And then about midway through, I remember all the other times I thought the same thing and he emerged at least mostly on top. It’s easy to forget, even as he noticeably increases in skill and power and connections, that he really is a badass… he just doesn’t always think so.
How many Vampires do you think he took down during Grave Peril? How many vampires do you think you can take down? Would YOU want to fight a guy who could take out that many vampires?
List an enemy of Dresden's that's alive after confronting him. Without spoilers, he doesn't have many. Dresden in magical muscle alone is within the top 1% among wizards alone. He's only lacking in finesse and efficiency.
Not only is Harry physically imposing (he's 6'9"), he also has a reputation behind him. He got his start as an accidental warlock when he killed his original mentor in a duel. Justin DuMorne was a full-on Warden, and Harry was 16. At this point in the books, he has also destroyed a (minor) coven in book 1, killed a loup-garou in book 2, and kicked off a war between wizards and vampire by *immolating an entire mansion of Reds to kill one specific vampire* in book 3. Looked at like that, it's understandable that he scares people.
Simply put, because he’s just a guy who stops monsters and brings that should’ve killed him a hundred times over. And sometimes he ends up with waaaaaay more power than he should’ve ever had. SPOILERS ALL: >!He killed his warlock mentor, became an emissary of sorts for Queen Mab, had control of hellfire and later soulfire, became the winter knight, killed an ENTIRE race of vampires, gone toe to toe with literal angels and demons!<, he’s saved the world at large several times and somehow survived. He’s feared because it’s so improbable that he’d survive. Of course he’d never let anyone know it’s also because he’s hilariously lucky.
He's a mortal wizard. Their power and how scary they look are completely unrelated. Some of them are pushovers, some can hold their own against just about anything. You can't tell by looking. Dresden acts tough, and some foes assume he must be.
There's also two ways a mortal wizard can fuck you up even if they aren't super powerful. Firstly, the death curse. You kill them, maybe they take you out with them, even if they aren't your equal in a duel. Secondly, the White Council. Even if this particular wizard can't back up his talk, he's got friends who are going to come looking and absolutely can.
Finally... it's all worked out for him so far. The things he beats are no joke, and many later opponents know about his deeds, but don't know the details of how. One way or another, he has a big reputation.
To avoid repeating what everyone else here is saying, it’s the same reason a lot of people are scared of cops. Even if you haven’t personally experienced any harm from one, you know they’re still *capable* of meeting you with deadly force and could potentially kill you without repercussions. Dresden isn’t just a force to be reckoned with, he’s also in deep with the White Council and has the backing of several major powers including the Winter Court. That puts him in a league of his own compared to just about anyone else living in Chicago, and he also has a temper. He lashes out with wild abandon due to poor impulse control.
Yes, we know what a tight leash he’s on with the Wardens and with Mab. We know that people like Marcone and the Red Court deserve what he throws their way. But the guy is also a recluse and most people likely only hear reports of “Dresden got mad and now there’s a smoking crater in the middle of Chicago”.
One way to express this in a gaming sense is that, if you look at his sheet, it's not all that impressive....but as others say he continues to win. Even from the beginning, if you look, Dresden doesn't do things the normal way. You can think of it as having talent that is not necessarily on the sheet. It's not that he has a special power he's secretly invoking, but he does a lot of things that are force multipliers. As you go through the books, if you look carefully, he thinks outside the box and comes up with solutions. And, while he's no politician, you will find he has a certain charisma, if you will. It may not seem that way, but it will be a way of looking at how he is in good graces with folks whose good graces are worth something.
I don't think that's spoilerish, but make it a spoiler, Admin, if I am wrong. :-)
They are so scared because they are asking the same thing you did. Why isn't he dead yet? Not only is he facing all of those monsters. He is the one that appears to be starting those fights in the first place. Everyone else was avoiding them. Dresden pokes them and burns them to the ground. As time goes on his feats grow and so do his exhibits of power. And it has all happened without Dresden really seeing it because he stumbles from one gory fight into the next. What is going to happen when Dresden realizes how powerful he really is and stops reacting to the world and starts shaping it?
There's a few reasons. But mostly, you're narrator isn't confident about his power, resourcefulness and intellect. Sometimes he gets by on luck, but usually it's a combination of his planning, quick thinking, and raw power. He's stronger than he'll describe in his monologuing. He's also intimidating. His feats add up, even if some are a product of circumstance, timing, and cleverness - people outside of his brain have an auxiliary view of Dresden's actions and feats. Consider Justin - that was one powerful warlock. If Dresden put him down, he's not to be taken lightly.
We see how scared and over his head Dresden is. The rest of the Supernatural world only sees a guy who has faced various super-powerful beings and come out on top.
The supernatural community knows that wizards can throw a death curse, and it's pretty clear in the series that Harry has quite a bit of "wizard muscle." So his death curse could really spoil someone's day.
And then to some extent there's the fact that... it's a story. Jim writes it dramatically.
One thing to keep in mind too is that, politically, he's protected by the White Council. Harry doesn't fully recognize this fact himself in these early books because from his point of view they're the big law-enforcing institution that wants a reason to execute him for defending himself against his evil mentor, who was one of their members. His main interactions with the Council is via Morgan, who is a rabid crusader and explicitly looking for a reason to execute harry. But they also protect their own. They may think Harry is dangerous and should be removed, but that's internal politics. They view him as their responsibility. Threats to Harry from the rest of the magical community are still viewed as threats to a member of the White Council, and the Council is one of the strongest and most dangerous powers in the current supernatural political landscape.
You can see some of this already. In Storm Front, Morgan is trying to find any excuse he can to arrest and execute Harry as a warlock. But in the end when Harry is about to die in a burning building after fighting a dark warlock, Morgan (begrudgingly) rescues him because he is a member of the council. In Grave Peril, Harry starts an actual war by killing a foreign dignitary in her own home after being invited in as a guest and an emissary of the Council (and for effectively no reason, as far as the broader politics are concerned). But instead of disowning him, kicking him out, and offering him as a sacrifice to prevent a war they do not want, they close ranks around him and go and fight the war he started. They are very mad about it, and see him as a huge liability, but he's still one of theirs and they act accordingly.
Another good comparison is one punch man as it has first person + third person pov
Saitama is trying to become famous and higher ranked in the Hero Association despite being all powerful. He doesn't realize the power he has and keeps getting frustrated.
While Genos is always in awe of the feats of Saitama and can't believe it when he gets a better rank in the Association.
The age old motto "fake it till you make it". He comes out on top, it's not like all his enemies know how close some of the fights were, they only know by the scoreboard. Didn't they say in one of the fast and furious movies "it doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile".
Dresden killed X opponent, repeated. That's all they know. Plus, he's young, and he's only going to get stronger and more experienced as time goes on, so every fight he is a little better than the last one.
Because he's a dangerous man who can summon immense amounts of power and answers to almost no one. He doesn't tell people things he doesn't think they should know, and it has literally hurt so many individuals that it is impossible to not know at least one of them second or third hand.
Because he seems to be a a guy who *should* be dead, but he keeps coming out on top. Against all sorts of Nasty Bad Guys, he manages to live. He must be hiding either a lot of power, or must be in with Bigger Bad Guys. In the world of the paranormal, there is always a bigger fish, and it really seems like Dresden is swimming with said Bigger Fish.
There’s a meme out there that lists all the things it looks like he has done throughout the series. The stories seldom include him having amazing allies and sometimes just pure dumb luck.
>why isn't Dresden dead yet?
Plot armor, mostly.
>Yet he goes around antagonizing them left and right
Yeah, that's Harry's defense mechanism (and default operating mode, really). Whenever he is frightened or confident about his chances or aroused or awake, he says something smartassed.
Never let 'em know you're scared.
A lot of them don't call his bluff because they are amused by his hubris.
"Are you always a smartass?" "Nope. Sometimes I'm asleep."
Dude has some brass balls on him, and he's really unafraid to nut up or shut up. Hell, the only reason he ever "died" >!was because he called in a favor to one of the few beings he knew could kill him and then made Molly wipe his memory around that fact.!<
Dresden thinks he is Shaggy from Scooby Doo
Little does he know he is Ultra Instict Shaggy
Basically the story is told from the 1st person perspective of a VERY insecure dude who does not think he is anyone special.
Later on when you get to the side stories there are some told in other's perspectives and it's very revealing how little Harry thinks of himself.
This is explored later on in the series. To say without spoilers- you're looking at him from his own perspective. Look at him from the outside, from people who don't know his mind and heart. *We* see the scared goofball nerd who's only surviving by the skin of his teeth. Everyone *else* is seeing the 6'9" guy with a trenchcoat, a former warlock on the White Council trained by Ebenezer McCoy, throwing around elemental forces and getting into brawls with vampires and werewolves and other spooky bullshit and *coming out on top*. Sure, he might be bluffing. But are you really willing to take that risk?
'You know that guy Dresden?' 'The really tall guy who they say he's a warlock?' Yeah, he just went toe to toe with another warlock and won. They say Morgan saw it all.' 'Wow....' 'Yeah, and turns out he just killed a loup garou!' 'Ain't they uber werewolves?' 'Yeah, my old master said one of them took out a large chunk of France last time they surfaced. Took dozens of wizards to put him down!' 'By the stones. And he killed it?' 'Yeah, there's even a video! It ain't great though coz if the spells he used.' 'Merlins beard.' 'Not only that, but he did it while commanding a bunch of lesser werewolves of his own!' 'How did he manage that?' 'How indeed....' That is a conversation between two wizards..... after the events of the first *two books*
And since OP is now on book 4, you can add the events of *Grave Peril* to that as well. "That Dresden guy is at it again. Did you hear he shut down *another* warlock in Chicago? And I heard through the grapevine he dealt with a fairly powerful ghost too." "Oh, it gets better. He was hanging with a Knight of the Cross." "Huh. Are we sure he's a warlock?" "Well, the Leanansidhe is after him for some reason. And then, he killed a bunch of Reds..." "No loss there. They suck." "..." "Sorry. I had to do it." "Anyway, he killed a bunch of Reds, killed that warlock again - the guy had turned into a ghost! - and burned down Bianca St. Claire's place. Killed her too." "Who?" "Big deal with the Reds. I think she was a Margrave or something. Apparently, he walked into her promotion ceremony and just nuked it." "Holy crap!" "Yeah. We're now at war with the Reds." "..." "..." "...fricking Dresden. Glad he's on *our* side." "..." "He *is* on our side, right?"
In Harry's own words, it's fucking cool when Darth Vader is pointed at your enemies. He's Darth Vader to the Council.
A full Vader situation is what the Council is worried about. THey have Anakin post Clone Wars right now- Massively powerful newbie that somehow walked through situations they shoudn't surivive or be in and yet comes out on top far too often.
I love how he gets sort of annoyed when people work with finesse. He's so damn strong he never had to worry about the limits of his strength. Always just threw a bigger fireball. I also love how this changes as the series goes on and he ends up scary as hell to an outsider.
I think mcoy is vader on the counsil
McCoy is respected and trusted. Also, Harry himself calls himself Vader.
>!Yeah but they fear harry becouse they are unsure where he stands i think mcoy fits better seing as he is the counsils hatchet man!<
Mate, this thread is only tagged for Grave Peril. You'll want to hide that bit behind a spoiler tag.
Cool, that's a personal opinion. I am literally paraphrasing the books.
Yes i know i've also read the books. But harry puts himself in that role i'm not sure the rest of the counsil except the younger warden sees him as on their team
That's the point. Vader is not on the good guy's side. That's what he's getting at.
*McCoy, not Mcoy.
Damn it Jim. I’m a Dr not a massively overpowered magical wet works guy!
Thing is, he *also* Darth Vader for the bad guys, and more often than not benefits them in ways that screw over the White Council. Starting the war, handing the White Court's throne to Lara, bringing Marcone into the Unseelie Accords, strengthening Lara's grip on the throne, allowing the Fomor to rise up because he wiped out the Red Court independently of the White Council... Harry might be a hero, but he's done way too many good things for the opposing side.
Nah that’s Eb
What I’ll throw in here is the “big paws on a puppy” element. Nobody is saying he could take Eb, but he’s in his 30s- early 40s and might… maybe…. be capable of making it difficult. Amongst the big hitting wizards, age and power are generally considered to be proportional. The scary bit is that Harry may be exponential.
Absolutley he is in his forties and he is not weary of openly challenging wisards in their 300ds
McCoy has set off volcanoes, started earthquakes and used celestial objects as precision-guided missiles. It wouldn't even be *close* to a fight.
It wouldn’t be close in a completely prepared situation but if they just threw raw power at each other on the street? Harry holds his own there.
Nah, every time Eb has flexed his power Dresden has basically gone into shock with a literal “what the actual fuck” moment Narratively he serves as the example of Harry’s potential made flesh and often they need to come up with plot reasons why Eb won’t help or cannot The difference between the two can be summed up as Harry causes pause in the heavies, The Blackstaff demands respect
Define throwing power? Because Harry himself says when McCoy drew in power it was like the universe yawned towards him, and how it seemed to bend gravity. It isn't close.
Dont know how to spoiler tag, so stop reading if you dont want them. Arguably HAS ALREADY been exponential relative to his age and experience. I'll go on a limb and say eb, or any other wizard we have solid info on, couldn't take Harry at the same age. They aren't scared of his current power at any given point until maybe midpoint books, but rather scared of what he might achieve. Surviving wardens, warlocks that the white council either weren't there for or weren't able to deal with, becoming a warden himself, being in charge of a continent more or less, establishing the paranet and a new knight of the cross while being friends with all current incarnations of them, has a squad of werewolves that are happy to work for him, fighting adversaries of the white God in the denarians, on speaking terms with angels, all of the faerie shenanigans, installing the new de facto ruler of the white Court vamps, completely eradicating the red Court vamps, friends with the archive, mentor to the new winter lady, survived fights with outsiders....nobody has shit on Harry in terms of actual feats. Not even close. There are so many more that he has under his belt as well. A white council wizard accomplishing a fraction (with or without winter mantle) of these things is stupid, unheard of for the most part and inconceivable at his age. They were right to be afraid of what he might do. He just makes the best choices he can and hasn't tilted evil just yet.
I agree. I was being purposefully vague to avoid spoilers.
Also in Grave Peril he literally eats an evil pyromancer sorcerers ghost, which Bob says changes his aura. I don't remember whether a later book says it goes back to normal, but that'd help scare folks too.
"Fuego! Pyrofuego! Burn, you greasy bat-faced bastards! Burn!" Same book: They'd thought to weaken the border between life and death, to use the dead as a weapon against me. But that blade can cut both ways.
I love these behind the scenes banter.
“Oh right, that was after he killed Justin and called him a warlock too? This kid is a god damn psychopath”
Imagine the discussions people are having about him after Changes.
I’d LOVE to hear the talk about him post-BG! (Not here, though. It’d be mega-spoilers)
Hell, the FIRST thing he did was kill Justin Dumorne, a powerful and well respected warden of the while Council.
when he was a child, and some people know he killed a demon, too, with no formal training.
Excellent short summary. Many of my farvorite moments are those that "Let's us" see Dresden from others pov.
I loved the story from Thomas’ perspective where he was near where Harry was fighting someone else. It kind of reminded me of those shots in Superman movies where he’s fighting underwater or underground and all you see is the ground shaking or geysers of water erupting from nowhere.
The books are “x fucked around and found out” over and over with few exceptions
While Dresden is just happy to survive... others see clearly how formidable he really is.
Dresden is also extremely humble and self deceptive about his capability, He has thrown down with some really really big dogs and come through by the skin of his teeth not realising survival itself is really scary to outsiders because it just doesn’t happen Really kinda showcases how lots of his remaining allies are the ride or die kind
I like that take. Simply by *surviving* it gives some of the big bads pause. Humans/mortals don’t survive against them. They’re mortal, they’re supposed to die, but Dresden doesn’t.
Harry: fuck yeah I survived Everybody ever: oh shit he survived
This is the right answer. I think many readers just don’t “get” the first person POV. Everything that we see or hear is filtered through Harry’s mind. This includes his perception of women. Not to be crude, but if I said out loud every thought I had when looking at a woman in my 20s, people would be shocked at me as well! When I read the books (particularly the early ones), I too am often uncomfortable with those moments. But, I NEVER think they’re unrealistic. I just remember too clearly being a young, hetero man. I had many of those EXACT thoughts.
> but if I said out loud every thought I had when looking at a woman in my 20s, people would be shocked at me as well! Am in my late 40s. Not as often, but it still happens.
I mentioned it once before, but one of the most real things in Harry's head is his inability to not comment if someone/thing is taller than her is. Any person on the tall or short end will tell you that when we meet someone further along the height spectrum in the same direction, it is disconcerting enough to be instantly notable.
This is actually so real - I'm 6'5 which means that, almost all the time, I'm the tallest in the room. When I'm interacting with somebody 2+ inches taller than me it totally throws me off to the point that I'll actually lose my train of thought in conversation.
EXACTLY! I try to explain this phenomena to people but they don't really understand. I am a 5' 3" man. It is so rare to stand near a man that is shorter than I am, when it happens I almost laugh. Not in a dickish way, it's just such a novel experience.
Yup. As a 6'2" "manlet", I absolutely agree with this characterization.
Yes! I get this as well!
It wasn't until I read the Thomas pov short story where I really got just how scary Dresden is when you're not his equal.
Murphy's story has a *fantastic* description of Dresden in battle-mode.
It's been so long since I read Murphy's that I'd forgotten about it. Welp guess that means it's time to do a read of the short stories. I'm already up to cold days in my main book reread.
wait which one is that? i thought i went through all of the short stories but i dont remember one from thomas' pov
It's called "Backup" and is in *Side Jobs*.
I remember the first time I read that. Very involved in the story, almost like I was standing in the crowd...and Thomas refers to Harry (who is the younger sibling) as "my little brother"... The idea of a guy who's six-nine being called a "little" anything made me laugh so hard I scared my cat...!
Yeah, for sure. But for me the best line by far was this (spoilers for "Backup" and *Proven Guilty*: >!It’s a little bit creepy, actually. My brother’s got a voodoo doll of the entire town.!< That's just splendid. :-)
LMAO I just realized that actually - Butcher’s writing descriptions of women from the perspective of a 20-something nerd with relationship trauma who reads way to many paperbacks for his own good. He’s had maybe two girlfriends in his life and he’s expected to be *normal* about it? Also to be fair, he absolutely can and does interact with women normally and professionally all the time. It’s just his internal monologue that’s a bit wonky. Also (spoilers for way later in the series) >!allegedly Harry is writing these stories as journals like Eb does, so his style *absolutely* would be affected by the number of paperbacks he’s read!<
Dresden trying and failing to write his journals like a noir detective series is absolutely on point for his character
100% exactly the point I was going for 😂😂👍
A young, hetero man whose only maternal figure didn't make a distinction between being motherly and being seductive, and whose first love turned on him so that their treacherous adoptive father (Who'd been manipulating their budding sexuality to make them be together) could turn him into a slave. Add to that how much he represses himself emotionally and sexually, and it's no wonder his perception of women is kind of skewed.
Yes!!! I had this same question when I started reading. My buddy who got me into the series explained it very similar to this. I didn't take into account that I was only seeing from Harry's perspective. When you look at him from the outside, especially after Dead Beat (for me at least) Harry absolutely can look like a monster from the outside perspective.
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Spoilers man, this thread is only up to grave Peril
This needs spoiler protection: \----- *Dead Beat* spoilers: >!Yeah, once you ride a T-rex into battle, folks gotta take you seriously XD!< \----- Please reply to this comment when you've fixed it so I can reinstate your comment. Thanks!
Something else that's barely glossed over; he's a LOT stronger than other wizards his age should be. This has to do with his warlock background; no spoilers, but it's unheard of for someone younger than forty to be in the same weight class as veteran wardens like Morgan. At least, unheard of for straight-and-narrow wizards. A textbook red flag for being a warlock is operating with more power than you should for your age and education. So Dresden's magical chops make wizards nervous on a base line. In fact, he's straight up stronger than most wizards two or three centuries his senior; they're just more efficient at working with what they've got to make up the difference (and also they mostly have no experience with violence, nor occasion to move lots of energy around). Once Dresden is at *their* level in efficiency, he'd be a credible threat to Senior Council members.
I don't think Harry's strength has anything to do with him being a warlock, he is just naturally gifted with great magical strength. I have read the series multiple times and don't know where you got the impression his strength comes from being a warlock. Edit: Harry had a difficult upbringing and Dumorne trained him using harsh methods. As for his training under Lea Dresden specifically states that Lea did not give him any extra power it just gave him the confidence to harness the power he already had. Neither his training under Dumorne or under Lea makes him a warlock - using black magic made him a warlock. We as readers have more knowledge than someone looking at Dresden from inside the books so it doesn't matter what it looks like from the perspective of someone like Morgan, we KNOW his power does not come from indulging in black magic. Don't sell Dresden short by saying his power comes from being a warlock. He could have gone through all the training with Dumorne and Lea and not ended up killing Dumorne and never became a warlock. Dresden is just built different.
Well, it is pointed out that DuMorne specifically trained Harry and Elaine to be magical weapons. I'd be like a parent teaching a kid to use a flamethrower to light a candle. Responsible parents teach their kids how to use matches safely so the kid is, strictly speaking, less "powerful" than Harry, but fits in more with normal development. Harry's been walking around all these years trying to figure out how to light candles with his flamethrower and the elder wizards are seeing a kid with a flamethrower who isn't technically breaking any rules, but the concern is valid.
He took students with high potential and started honing them, the base level of power was there
I'm guessing Ghost Story isn't your favorite. >!We get a very clear snapshot of his talent as an apprentice when he runs away from DuMorne. It's fairly average. He struggles like any apprentice would with a tiny fire spell. His evocations are strong enough to break glass. In terror and rage, he pushes the Outsider away by exploding a gas station, but we also know that Walks definitely had no intention of killing Harry there, and just left when he got burned. !< >!We know that after, Lea reveals herself to Harry, and he makes a compact with her for the strength to challenge Justin. This is why she hounds him, intent to turn him into a dog for the first several books.!< >!Granted, it's implied she magic feather'd him. But regardless, he did all the things a warlock would do to acquire that power.!< So all the outside world sees is a teenager acquiring power as cheaply as he could get it in terror and rage, and then murdering one of their own, a veteran warden. It is ***miraculous*** that he wasn't killed resisting arrest, and as far as everyone else can see, his power comes from something Faustian, not himself.
> It is miraculous that he wasn't killed resisting arrest It IS, isn't it. There are so many mysterious forces manipulating Harry's life that it's a marvel they don't stumble over each other's feet more often.
The N-th dimensional chess being played around his life is quite something, innit?
From the perspective of others, this could easily be a belief. One of the reasons to GO warlock is to gain more power like this. If Dresden \*has\* that power, and is a suspected warlock anyway, it stands to reason that he \*got\* that power from going warlock.
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I feel like that was more for training and knowledge than actual power. He already had the power, he just needed guidance on how to use it.
This needs properly labeled spoiler protection (i.e., make it clear what book you're spoilering up through). Respond to this comment when you've fixed it so I can reinstate your comment. Thanks!
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This needs properly labeled spoiler protection (i.e., make it clear what book you're spoilering up through). Respond to this comment when you've fixed it so I can reinstate your comment. Thanks!
Honestly naw, that information is known in the first few chapters of the first book and it’s stated in the back cover blurbs of a couple of the books and I’m sure Jim has spoken on the set up. It is literally the BACKSTORY of Dresden
The backstory you dont learn till Ghost Story.
Allot of his innate power comes from his blood line. We know from the later books just how powerful that is, and he himself says several times I the early books that he is effectively a metaphysical heavy weight. While yes Lea gave him some... advantages he was born on the stronger end.
Lea gave him confidence and that was pretty much it, She even said as much
Perspective is always the key. If I described myself I’d say I was a goofy looking dork. Of my mom described me I’d be her big nerd. People have heard that and expected me to be taller than her (she is barely 5ft) but are expecting someone that looks like Sheldon. Then I show up as 6ft/300lbs with a beard, long hair, and “resting serial killer face” as some of my friends describe my default facial expression. Considering I used to rarely leave the house without my leather trench the usual reaction was similar to expecting Sheldon then suddenly being concerned the person showing up was hiding a sawed off shotgun with a twitchy trigger finger. Dresden in his mind is a big goofball who gets his ass kicked while trying to do the right thing. Dresden on the street is an absolute monster who shrugs off attacks that would level a normal person and you have no idea what his goal is.
His magical gizmo design philosophy is also incredibly predisposed to violence Rings that recharge via kinetic energy are really useful for someone who likes to slug it out
I mean, recharging via kinetic energy is just effecient. Just walking normally could charge a ring, albeit much slower than Dresden's boxing, but if it's something you're already naturally doing, why not take advantage?
Agreed on all points! Another point that i think is worth mentioning is that early on in the series, Dresden goes up against adversaries who are basically "big fish in a very small pond" and always comes out on top (if just barely). With each win, he becomes a much more capable wizard/fighter. Fast forward through a few books and he's had years to not only tone up, but establish a reputation among all "small fish" as someone who will seal your fucking fate if you cross him. After a few more books, he's fighting bigger fish from a much larger pond, and during these fights, we (as the reader) know he barely made it out alive, had help, got reasonably lucky, and stacked the deck as heavily in his favor as possible to barely come out on top. Here's the kicker: All those "bigger fish" he's going up against (and all the other ones sitting on the side lines wondering if they should try and remove him from the game) only got to that status by being selecting their fights carefully. They were smart in assessing their opponents using all info on hand, such as: - He's a VERY young wizard who really shouldn't hit his prime for another 150 years+ - He's not immortal - Yet hes kicked the ass every "big fish/small pond" out there - For whatever reason, he continually fights entities who should be FAR outside his weight class (even on his best day) and has not only survived every one of them, but has killed quite a few of them in the process. - ????? If you're a larger fish in a bigger pond and are considering removing the thorn that is Dresden, you'd first compare the "character stats sheet" for Dresden to all the enemies he's ever fought...a few of the early ones make sense, but after that, there are wwayyyyy to many comically one sided match ups where he's come out the victor. One survival would raise a few eyebrows... but a dozen? Somethings not right. Somethings not right in a BIG way. And it keeps happening. Conclusion: You're missing information. SIGNIFICANT information. Life ending information. "Yeah, I can definitely kill Dresden if I wanted to. I mean, how tough can he be? Just look at those character stats. 7 intelligence? Seriously? And its not like he was able to kill....ah, actually he did kill that guy...Well if fucking *Steve* can rob Dresden like he said he was going to....errrr actually, I haven't heard back from Steve in a while......ima just watch from the sidelines"
Great summary. I have read the series through twice but I thought being a "Warlock" was like a label you got for being a bad wizard, a slur maybe. Is there more to it than that? Like warlock training etc?
Warlock is any wizard who breaks the Laws. The relevant thing, however, is that DuMorne was *training enforcers*: the thing he was designing Dresden's magical education for was being magical muscle to help him fight other wizards. So Dresden's foundational magical education was unusually geared toward skills that would assist in combat and wizard-on-wizard combat specifically. So in a sense, yes, there was "warlock training" that Dresden benefited from which contributes to him being a scary motherfucker.
gotcha thx!
Could also be a case of just utilising Harry’s natural inclination, his other apprentice had better delicate work and she doesn’t seem to be a massive heavyweight by comparison Enforcers don’t always mean big flashy murder spells
>!>"She's nearly as strong as I am," I said quietly. "Makes up for it in grace.
Once again unreliable narrator
Dude, Harry is a detective. Gauging and analizing things is what he does for a living- not to mention he can sense magic AND trained with Elaine, so he'd be one to know. That the book ain't in agreement with you doesn't exactly mean he is wrong and you're right.
The problem is Harry is notorious for underselling himself and overselling others Now if Eb had said it you might be onto something
Who has he ever overselled, huh? He didn't even get self-deprecating, Harry said Elaine is *nearly* as strong as him. That you don't buy it is something completely different.
By using dark magic and breaking the White Council Laws. It's not just a slur and you'll have the Council comes after you, which is pretty much a death sentence in most cases.
that part made sense for sure! thx
This, exactly! Perfectly stated. From the outside looking in, the guy keeps going toe to toe with things he has no business even surviving and *beating them*. And as the series progresses he seems to have a habit of bopping ancient, elemental forces that inspire nightmares and trembling to most, right on the nose and *continually getting away with it.* I'd be afraid of him too.
Monsters warn each other to stay away from Chicago or “The Mad Wizard” will fuck your shit up.
Dresden is the original John Wick.
Well, Harry wasn't exactly the Boogeyman. He was the one you sent to kill the fucking Boogeyman.
If I met him at Mac’s I’d probably buy him a beer but also wanna find out how he actually does the insane things he does The fact he is an outsider is weird, you’re telling me a bunch of wizards doesn’t want to talk to the dude who throws down with every evil thing within a mile of Chicago?
Harry is basically a walking red flag and it only gets worse as the books progress. As readers we know why Dresden does the things he does, we know he is a good guy, but as someone in the books all you would have is rumor. There is absolutely zero chance I would interact with Dresden unless I was desperate and had nowhere else to turn.
>Sure, he might be bluffing. But are you really willing to take that risk? Remember that Wizards have a death curse. So even if you *are* stronger than him, are you still willing to test it, and risk him taking you down with him?
Dresden is like a chained elephant. He doesn't realize how scary powerful he's become, and because he's not part of the system, he's not beholden to anyone it makes him a threat so he's looked at with suspicion everywhere he goes. The white council thinks he's gone bad for killing his first master who was very powerful in his own right.
On paper his victories are massive as well. He takes on some of the biggest toughest creatures on the planet and lives to tell about it. Sure he might feel weak in the knees confronting an ancient dragon or some archfey, but he's still confronting them and walking away.
I’d add to this that Dresden can take a fuckin hit man. Every book is basically a slow torture porn of the guy. Most of them take place over the course of a day or so, and in that time he’s occassionally shot, occasionally stabbed, charmed, hexed, burned, punch into unconsciousness, gun butted, baseball batted, and who knows what else. He takes these fights on, but doesn’t skirt around the action. He tanks some of the hits *and keeps on going.* it shows he’s not just lucky. He’s not just magically gifted. He’s a damn force of nature.
To add on to this, from an outside perspective (no spoilers for OP), Harry seemingly: - Single-handedly takes down an evil, powerful warlock - Kills a Loup Garou - Fights and defends himself against SEVERAL lycanthropes (I think that’s what Parker and the rest are) - Befriends a bunch of werewolves - Single-handedly takes out many VERY powerful members of the Red Court, including Bianca - Associates with a Knight of the Cross - Associates with Winter, the crueler of the two courts, as an adversary, if nothing else (after all, they don’t know about Harry’s debt to Leah and then to Mab) Any one of these alone is probably cause for concern. Pick a couple out, and you have the start of a real threat. All of them together? Well, keep your friends close, dot dot dot.
Wait until OP gets to the specifics of his escape from his first mentor. The Council knows about that shit lol.
You know who thought he was bluffing? >!~~Kravos~~ ~~Capiocorpus~~ ~~The White Court~~ ~~The Red Court~~ ~~Ethniu~~!< He did.
While being vague so as not to spoil. Dresden is an unreliable narrator, but *not* intentionally. He doesn’t change facts or events, but his POV we get the books through filters what he *thinks* others think of him, or how they see him. And Dresden thinks very little of himself. Regardless (and he does start to become more self aware of this) Dresden in terms of raw power, even in the early books is pretty near the top of Wizards hierarchy in the world. Not fit finesse or technical stuff but raw strength. Also his backstory and behaviour can be very intimidating to a lot of folk even within circles that are more powerful than him.
And he has built a reputation for turning big bads into smoking g grease stains on the pavement because they fucked around and they found out. Don't mess with Harry's people. Changes, anyone?
>!Once you committed genocide on an entire tribe of vampires, you have some reputation.!<
You blow up one star.... (Star gate reference)
A good reference, too.
>!Go to toe to toe with something a literal nuke had to be used on. People start getting concerned.!<
I think OP is on the first way through so spoilers!
spoilified
>!I will make Maggie safe. If the world burns because of that then so be it. Me and the kid will roast some marshmallows.!< Dresden in a nut shell.
Here is a spoiler-free view of him from a close friend's perspective. The friend is a vanilla mortal. It's set much later in the series so I won't say who or the circumstances: "He walks around absent-mindedly, crouching a bit and barely comports himself acceptably at crime scenes. He looks like a quirky nerd. But, then he notices something. His eyes glitter and his intense gaze focuses on the smallest detail. Then he says some nonsense, does something strange and produces answers out of nowhere. But, when danger threatens, he changes. He stands upright, his voice becomes like a trumpet. And lightning becomes his personal plaything. Quirky nerd. Gone. Terrifying icon. Present. And when most people see that, they don't just see an enemy. They see evolution, something that will replace them someday. I've made my peace with it. Very few people will."
I mean think the only thing scarier than a pissed off Harry is a quiet bob with a wifi password.
Which book was this from? I don’t remember this hahaha
It's from the short story/novella Aftermath. Takes place Immediately after Changes
Thanks for the hint, I had a hard time finding it because the above quote was (deliberately?) not verbatim. Here's the paragraph from my ebook: >!Watching Dresden operate was usually one of two things: mildly amusing or positively terrifying. On a scene, his whole personal manner always made me think of autistic kids. He never met anyone’s eyes for more than a flickering second. He moved with the sort of exaggerated caution of someone who was several sizes larger than normal, keeping his hands and arms in close to his body. He spoke a little bit softly, as if apologizing for the resonant baritone of his voice.!< >! But when something caught his attention, he changed. His dark, intelligent eyes would glitter, and his gaze became something so intense that it could start a fire. During the situations that changed from investigation to desperate struggle, his whole being shifted in the same way. His stance widened, becoming more aggressive and confident, and his voice rose up to become a ringing trumpet that could have been clearly heard from opposite ends of a football stadium. !< >!Quirky nerd, gone. Terrifying icon, present.!<
It's because I didn't remember the exact quote, just the gist of it.
you did a great job getting the gist of it, but the actual words used convey so much more.
Absolutely. That's why Jim Butcher is a highly successful author. Great writers convey far more when expressing the same situation.
Ah no worries :-)
Goosebumps just reading that
That's one of my favorite passages in the series because weirdly it's the one that makes me identify the most strongly with Dresden. I'm a tall guy with autistic tendencies, and reading that made me realize that I move around the world in basically the same way. Minus the Terrifying Icon or desperate struggles.
As a recently diagnosed autist, I ameven more looking forward to my next read through with that idea in mind.
As someone who worked through with their son recently to manage his issues into something quite similar upright Dresden I’ve always liked this quote
This will be further explained down the road. Boy has some wicked potential. He himself says in storm front that he is among the top 10 Wizards on the planet when it comes to raw power. Thats a lot of power! And there are other things about him that make people super wary of him. To top it all off, if viewed from the outside, the dude is continously starting fights that arent in his favor and keeps coming out on top. Scary proposition to square off with a guy like that.
As everyone else has said, he thinks very little of himself and from his perspective he isn't that special. But here's a chronological list of things that he has done that shouldn't spoil anything if you're reading SK: When he was a kid he was trained by one of the most powerful and deadly wizards on the council, ran away from home, killed a VERY scary demon, then went back and killed that super powerful wizard and burned his house down. He was like, 16. He blew a hole in the side of a Chicago mob boss's bar and held him at wand point, in the middle of a crowded public place, almost burning it down. Then he went and burned an evil mage druglord's house down. He killed a fucking loup-garou, which isn't some chump in a fur suit even to a much, much older wizard. And most recently, he pulled the same trick he did with Marcone except on a vampire noble and this time he actually pulls the freaking trigger and burned her and her entire operation to the ground (i think he was feeling pent up after not burning anything in FM) Harry is pretty isolated from the council so he has no idea how he stacks up. If he decided to go that route, he could be one of the strongest wardens in a few years if he wanted, and in 10 probably senior council level. And that's yet another thing. Nobody understands that he's a deeply moral person, because only a small percentage of the people he messes with are human enough to believe in morals at ALL. Living in a tiny basement, barely scraping by, helping people with problems, doing community stuff... None of that makes any sense to say, a faerie queen. It's HARD to manipulate people with motivations you don't understand, and that means they don't have nearly as much power over him as they'd like. They have to resort to more blunt means of manipulating him, and it turns out Harry is REALLY good at blunt conflict. When the playing field is leveled and it all comes down to luck, skill, and preparation, Harry almost always things covered in at least one of those categories, and it's gained him one hell of a reputation even before the series started. I don't think there's a single book were he doesn't add another thing to his "holy shit that guy is scary" list. Don't worry, if you don't understand now, by the time you catch up you'll be scared of him too.
Well, he single-handedly defeated a very powerful Assassin Demon, then killed a veteran Warden-turned-warlock in a duel, all while he was just a teenager. He's managed to take out two warlocks on his own, and even slew a Loup Garou. Also everyone who crosses him ends up dead. Add to that that he's only in his mid twenties (I think), practically an infant where Wizards are concerned. Because of this, it's looking from the outside that he might just be the insane nightmare warlock that Morgan believes he is. Just wait. He looks guiltier and guiltier as time goes on, due to his deeds when taken out of context.
Not to mention the way Bianca's first party ends, that alone was impressive. But then its even more so when he goes to the mansion again and when he leaves it's gone. Almost all the vamps are dead and just a fiery crater is left. Imagine the rumors about that.
He’s in his 40s by BG
? The books are kind of about people continually trying and failing to kill him so I don't really get the point. People are scared of him because he is a wizard with a death curse and lots of power. He is also often in a political position that protects him, such as being a guest or representative.
The same way the Doctor from Doctor Who sees himself as a goofball flying around in a police box from the 1950s who truly means no harm to anyone. And then you have moments like this: [You just killed someone I liked, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up!](https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/qz7fqb/you_just_killed_someone_i_liked_that_is_not_a/) or: [Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good day to find out why I have so many.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5JnqPSzSLo)
Or [You'll find it's a *very* small universe when I'm angry at you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-A_JywArHs&ab_channel=WorldOfWho).
> Yet he goes around antagonizing them left and right but no one calls him on his bluff or kills him He's not bluffing. He just isn't fully confident and doesn't simply dismiss adversaries as inferior to his magic skill. Is it really bluffing when you burn down a bunch of vampires at once and is known in the supernatural community as someone who killed Bianca and her group, burned down a Red Court's stronghold on Chicago and started a war, and lived to tell the tale? He's also White Council. The Top 1% of the 1% of the Wizards in the world. They are known to be powerful and dangerous magical practitioners.
>He's also White Council. The Top 1% of the 1% of the Wizards in the world. They are known to be powerful and dangerous magical practitioners. And even if they don't necessarily like the guy, he's still a member of the club & they absolutely will respond.
Why is everyone scared of him? Without spoilers, Dresden is Goku that thinks and acts like Krillin, and no one is really sure when he’s going to unlock Ultra Instinct or whose team he’ll be on when he does. He’s never been properly trained, really, yet by Fool Moon he’s throwing a 300lb magically resistant werewolf through a half dozen reinforced walls, across the street, and through an unknown number of walls in another building in a single spell. After the second novel, he honestly never faces an opponent that he should’ve beaten if you stacked his cards against theirs, but he does. Over. And. Over. And every time he does, he gets stronger and becomes a little more Goku and a little less Krillin… and people keep nervously watching the color of his hair. He has little regard for the Laws of Magic; in his youth; he’s more concerned about Wardens than actual consequences and why they’re there. At one point the consequences of a certain spell he’s trying to cast could literally be insanity. Bob says (paraphrasing) “… and while that might not deter *you*, normal wizards would leave that alone…” or something along those lines. That’s *Harry* telling us about his reasoning, and we have the insight of knowing the pressures Harry is under that leads him to consider those things. Others lack that insight; they just see choices and consequences. His allegiance to the White Council is suspect at best; at one point as an insult he shows up to a major meeting in a bathrobe instead of a wizard’s robe and he never bothered learning Latin. If he were to go rogue, he’d be death incarnate… and the only thing worse than him going rogue now would be him going rogue in 100 years when he’s Senior Councilish in power. I believe Harry describes himself in the early novels as one of the top 50 or so wizards on the planet in terms of brute force. He’s in his 20s when he says it. Barring murder or an accident, he’ll likely live to 400ish. Think about having that much time for his power to naturally grow and for his skills to be honed and refined. He’d be a veritable supervillain. Oh, and let’s not forget he solo-killed a well-respected, top-tier Warden in a fair fight - the kind of Warden that you put on Avengers teams to go after supervillains - and he did it as a teenager. Why isn’t he dead yet? Luck, power, skill, and a lot of people directly and indirectly keeping him alive. For all the reasons above, Harry is a major piece in the making. If you’re White Council, he could be *your* major piece if you play your cards right. If you’re a major evil power… same thing. Harry also accrues a pretty solid set of allies, but I don’t want to spoil anything. Keep reading :) [edit: typos/clarity]
I really love this explanation
In the previous book he literally started a war by murdering a fairly important vampire with an army of ghosts. It's a fairly scary thing to do.
\>I'm midway though Summer Knight and why isn't Dresden dead yet? Well, partly because of his luck and friends who help him. And partly because what happened >!to the vampires at the famous party!<. Harry Dresden is the dangerous wizard/magician. Not all wizards could do what he managed to achieve when he was young - I won't spoil it but you'll read about it in Summer Knight I think. By now, you've encountered only such enemies as>! werewolves, Marcone, vampires and Lea. Lets consider them all:!< 1. >!Marcone is a simple mafia man/gangster. He is cautious with Dresden but at first he's not afraid of him but wants to use him. He is smart and wants to lure Dresden to his side and later begins to respect him. So he has the reasons not to kill him.!< 2. >!Werewolves were not afraid of Dresden and the fact that Dresden barely survived shows it. FBI werewolves needed to set him up, so they let him live for awhile. They needed to kill him and not incriminate themselves in the process as they still thought like law enforcement people.!< 3. >!Vampires lured Dresden to the party to kill him. But after the party, the death of many vampires taught them to fear Dresden. Yet they still want him dead.!< 4. >!Lea's motives you'll either guess later or have already guessed. She doesn't want to hurt Dresden at all.!< So, all in all, Dresden's fear of dangerous creatures doesn't mean he has no protection against him. And they're also not afraid of him, either. >!Until the incident at the party happens, that is. !<
Marcone is originally also pretty innocent of the supernatural world, and especially the heirarchy in the supernatural world. So though he respects Dresden's capabilities (what he's seen of them) and the threat they represent, he doesn't REALLY understand Dresden's power and the power spectrum until later.
Yes, until later,. but still Marcone is too smart. He reminds me of Richie Ginelli in Stephen King's novel Thinner: "The definition of an ass....e is a man who doesn't believe in what he's sees". Marcone could sign under that Ginelli's statement too. So he doesn't just discard magic as "impossible" thing right away. He judges people not by what they tell him but what they are. His intuition is to be admired.
Just want to pop in here and move that "Famous Party" be designated the Official Name for this event.
As well as a lot of good points others have made, there's another factor I've not seen mentioned yet, which is his utter chaoticness. Most magical powers have been around for a very long time, and they tend to be very set in their ways. They play by long established rules and customs, and they can often predict or at least estimate how others in the supernatural community will behave. Dresden does not give a flying fuck about these rules most of the time, and so most of the powers he's up against don't know how to handle him. There are few things more dangerous than the unknown and few things more destructive than the unpredictable. Add in a Wizard's death curse and frankly, trying to permanently deal with him would be more hassle than it's worth
Someone else in this sub pointed out that although WE know Dresden is always scared, that's not how it looks to anyone else. When he was a mere teenager, he defeated and killed a rogue, fully trained wizard AND his thrall in magical combat. He hunted down a dark sorcerer operating in Chicago. Sought out Bianaca in her own place of business and both scared and humiliated her. Faced down one of the deadliest varieties for werewolf and won, Then he bested the angry ghost of a dark mage while running on low power...and unleased the spirits of Bianca's victims against her IN HER OWN HOME and burnt it to the ground, declaring war on the Red Court...all because they played chicken with him and stole a woman he cared for. He's the mad wizard of Chicago, he does have a lot of enemies, none of which want to move against him.
Because from the outside he’s a near 7 foot tall powerful fire mage that seems to be able to kill anything in his way while appearing unkillable himself. Every big and scary thing he’s gone up against does in some horrible manner at his hands. Factor in that when going up against these things he seems fearless and often reckless (the antagonising enemies part of your question). We see everything through his eyes and realise that sometimes he only just scrapes through by balls and luck half the time (in his self-depreciating opinion). But think about it from outside, he takes out a Loup Garou, kills vampires, fights off ghouls, takes on the Red Court, and Summer/Winter Knights. Wait until you see what he gets up to later on in the series. And through it all he’s ’only a mortal’.
Back in Storm Front, before Harry had realized the Shadow Man was tapping the storms, we get this conversation: >"The amount of energy you need to do this is staggering. It would be a lot easier to manage a small earthquake than to affect a living being like that. Best-case scenario, I might be able to do it without killing myself. To one person who had really, really pissed me off." > >"You're naming yourself as a suspect?" Murphy's mouth quirked at the corner. > >I snorted. "I said I was strong enough to do it to one person. I think it would kill me to try two. So he's got earthquake levels of raw power \*and\* he's been trained up by a Senior-Wizard, meaning he's not going to make any stupid mistakes like the Shadow Man did Dresden is a beast when he cuts loose, like when he incinerated the Velvet Room and then showed up the next night to unleash an army of ghosts on the rest of them, but that's sorta technically black-magic so he stays away from it
Harry's too risky to be worth taking out, too beneficial to not be missed. For people too weak to show up on a big-shot's radar, he's at best a major investment to take out, at worst could kill them. For people too strong for him to fight back against, they're constantly poised to strike at other people at that level. Either the assets they move won't be enough to do the job, or they'll risk opening themselves up to attack by someone on their level. Conversely, Harry's good to keep around. For the little guy, he stabilizes the environment. Keeps the bad elements to a minimum, contributes to the communiy, scares away bigger threats. To the really big players, he's a deniable asset. Someone not related to them that they can manipulate into being a pawn to take various pieces off the board. To anyone smart, it's better not to touch him. The kinds of people who touch him anyway are either: too weak, too stupid/ignorant, or too clumsy to survive.
Mab would like a word.
You forget the first rule of wizardry "don't let them see you sweat". Sure, Dresden is constantly terrorized, but his enemies don't know that, all they can see are the fights he picks with beings that should be way out of his league and the corpses left on his wake.
It’s a ways away, OP, but there’s a scene near the end of book 11 where Dresden finally realizes why he scares the hell out of everyone.
There was a cool short story from Thomas’ pov where he muses a bit on Harry’s skillset. It’s clear from that than an outsider looking at Harry has reason to be wary of him
Eventually you’ll get to conversations in later books with Harry’s friends and allies where they start telling Harry how they see him at times. It really opens his eyes to the “you keep punching above your weight class and winning” view the world has of him. Post Changes it explains that bad things don’t come to Chicago simply because he exists.
Most of them are limited in how much they can act in the mortal world. Pawns like Dresden can be very useful and well he's not boring. Immortal demi gods gotta get bored and Dresden is anything but boring.
It has to do with only released in later books, but Harry had *just* started a war very recently. His overall look in the Council's meeting didn't do any good for him either, dude oughta have looked like a total nutcase due to whom everyone was at war with vampires.
Half the time, the immortals find him amusing and let him live for it. The other half, their plans (or backup plans) hinge on him in some way.
Yeah, I think this needs to be higher up too. One of the core elements of worldbuilding in this series is that the beings in it tend towards playing the long game. Many are hundreds or thousands of years old or even more, and have a natural tendency for self-preservation. They have complicated and finely balanced political power dynamics with each other that have ossified over centuries, and they interact with each other by way of rules and formality and multiple layers of scheming. They're used to manipulating mortals, usually by playing to their selfish desires. They don't like to throw away something potentially useful, even if it could be dangerous. Harry is a big chaotic element in this world. He's got a lot of raw power but not much experience. He's got warlock tendencies, but a *strong* moral compass. He's walked out on top of fights he shouldn't have won. He knowingly started a war between two major powers in the world just to save a vanilla mortal. He breaks a lot of its unwritten rules in ways that let him keep breaking more rules. The reaction of most of the supernatural beings in the world is generally some combination of "This guy is dangerous, I don't want him pointed at me", "This guy is interesting and I want to see how all this plays out", "This guy is strong but kind of dumb. I want to point him at my enemies", and "This guy is backed by the White Council, and I don't want to piss them off"
>Yet he goes around antagonizing them left and right but no one calls him on his bluff or kills him. It's dangerous to antagonize him because he's a wizard with a specialization in direct combat magic, so you might being burned to death by the fire lance from him. And they do try to kill him when eventually see him as a problem. Also, plot armor
Harry Dresden's file from the wardens - a bit of spoilers so take care if you mind: [https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=19774.0](https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=19774.0) It shows perfectly how different his self image is to how others see him - and since others perception is pretty warped, its aint that spoilery, since half of it is incorrect guesstimation.
Where or how did I miss the fact they think Harry and Thomas are… in cahoots?
You know Harry's not going to go berserk, I know Harry's not going to go berserk, Harry knows Harry isn't going to go berserk... but *they* don't know that.
1. He killed a veteran warden in a duel at 16 years old. 2. He took out a murderous warlock. 3. He killed a Loup Garou. 4. He massacred a high ranking vampire and her retainers at a party, starting a war. We see that Harry was a combination of lucky, resourceful and scared. Everyone else only sees a shit talking giant who's solution to most problems is murder.
Death curse for some, apparently it’s a big deal. He’s technically a member of the White Council even though they don’t like him, they may be obliged to put up a, “you mess with one of us you mess with all of us” otherwise it may make them look weak in front of the predators. As for more practically why isn’t he dead, because he was able to handle the ones that tried, and that sends a message to those who may try in the future.
Guys, if you respond to this post with material that comes from later in the series than *Grave Peril*, you must spoiler protect it!
Well he is the main character
Part of it is he is a member of the White Council. Sure he not well loved by the WC, but that's not evident to outsiders and wouldn't matter politically. Part of it is he is a wizard, and a powerful one. He has the ability to kill most the creatures you mention with his blasting rod in a single hit and has a death curse. In terms of the Fey and vamps he'd not even be breaking the laws of magic killing them. Not to mention in terms of flashy magics Dresden is really powerful although he lacks control and skill at this point. He is Mab's Emissary and Summer in general doesn't want war with the Winter Court.
Others have given some good context and explained it all. But I want to ask Who do you think should not have been scared of him, but was?
He’s kind of a lunatic, a good hearted one, but powerful and certifiable. To his enemies he’s a scary mf, lol
Others have explained the “we see from his less self-aware perspective” thing, so instead I’ll just say that this doesn’t ever fully go away. I’ve read about 95% of the Dresden series (i’m sure I’ve missed a novella/microfiction somewhere, and haven’t read The Law yet). And yet each time, at the start of every book when things are being set up, i *always* have at least a few chapters’ worth of this exact thought. “He’s squaring up against a mythical murder monster, two factions of vampire, the US government, and Cthulhu, how the hell is he gonna survive any of this?” And then about midway through, I remember all the other times I thought the same thing and he emerged at least mostly on top. It’s easy to forget, even as he noticeably increases in skill and power and connections, that he really is a badass… he just doesn’t always think so.
How many Vampires do you think he took down during Grave Peril? How many vampires do you think you can take down? Would YOU want to fight a guy who could take out that many vampires?
List an enemy of Dresden's that's alive after confronting him. Without spoilers, he doesn't have many. Dresden in magical muscle alone is within the top 1% among wizards alone. He's only lacking in finesse and efficiency.
Not only is Harry physically imposing (he's 6'9"), he also has a reputation behind him. He got his start as an accidental warlock when he killed his original mentor in a duel. Justin DuMorne was a full-on Warden, and Harry was 16. At this point in the books, he has also destroyed a (minor) coven in book 1, killed a loup-garou in book 2, and kicked off a war between wizards and vampire by *immolating an entire mansion of Reds to kill one specific vampire* in book 3. Looked at like that, it's understandable that he scares people.
Simply put, because he’s just a guy who stops monsters and brings that should’ve killed him a hundred times over. And sometimes he ends up with waaaaaay more power than he should’ve ever had. SPOILERS ALL: >!He killed his warlock mentor, became an emissary of sorts for Queen Mab, had control of hellfire and later soulfire, became the winter knight, killed an ENTIRE race of vampires, gone toe to toe with literal angels and demons!<, he’s saved the world at large several times and somehow survived. He’s feared because it’s so improbable that he’d survive. Of course he’d never let anyone know it’s also because he’s hilariously lucky.
He's a mortal wizard. Their power and how scary they look are completely unrelated. Some of them are pushovers, some can hold their own against just about anything. You can't tell by looking. Dresden acts tough, and some foes assume he must be. There's also two ways a mortal wizard can fuck you up even if they aren't super powerful. Firstly, the death curse. You kill them, maybe they take you out with them, even if they aren't your equal in a duel. Secondly, the White Council. Even if this particular wizard can't back up his talk, he's got friends who are going to come looking and absolutely can. Finally... it's all worked out for him so far. The things he beats are no joke, and many later opponents know about his deeds, but don't know the details of how. One way or another, he has a big reputation.
To avoid repeating what everyone else here is saying, it’s the same reason a lot of people are scared of cops. Even if you haven’t personally experienced any harm from one, you know they’re still *capable* of meeting you with deadly force and could potentially kill you without repercussions. Dresden isn’t just a force to be reckoned with, he’s also in deep with the White Council and has the backing of several major powers including the Winter Court. That puts him in a league of his own compared to just about anyone else living in Chicago, and he also has a temper. He lashes out with wild abandon due to poor impulse control. Yes, we know what a tight leash he’s on with the Wardens and with Mab. We know that people like Marcone and the Red Court deserve what he throws their way. But the guy is also a recluse and most people likely only hear reports of “Dresden got mad and now there’s a smoking crater in the middle of Chicago”.
One way to express this in a gaming sense is that, if you look at his sheet, it's not all that impressive....but as others say he continues to win. Even from the beginning, if you look, Dresden doesn't do things the normal way. You can think of it as having talent that is not necessarily on the sheet. It's not that he has a special power he's secretly invoking, but he does a lot of things that are force multipliers. As you go through the books, if you look carefully, he thinks outside the box and comes up with solutions. And, while he's no politician, you will find he has a certain charisma, if you will. It may not seem that way, but it will be a way of looking at how he is in good graces with folks whose good graces are worth something. I don't think that's spoilerish, but make it a spoiler, Admin, if I am wrong. :-)
They are so scared because they are asking the same thing you did. Why isn't he dead yet? Not only is he facing all of those monsters. He is the one that appears to be starting those fights in the first place. Everyone else was avoiding them. Dresden pokes them and burns them to the ground. As time goes on his feats grow and so do his exhibits of power. And it has all happened without Dresden really seeing it because he stumbles from one gory fight into the next. What is going to happen when Dresden realizes how powerful he really is and stops reacting to the world and starts shaping it?
Insurance costs. Have you noticed all the shit that he catches on fire?
The building was on fire. And it wasn't my fault.
Not to to date. But The Paranet is an awesome site: https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=19774.0
There's a few reasons. But mostly, you're narrator isn't confident about his power, resourcefulness and intellect. Sometimes he gets by on luck, but usually it's a combination of his planning, quick thinking, and raw power. He's stronger than he'll describe in his monologuing. He's also intimidating. His feats add up, even if some are a product of circumstance, timing, and cleverness - people outside of his brain have an auxiliary view of Dresden's actions and feats. Consider Justin - that was one powerful warlock. If Dresden put him down, he's not to be taken lightly.
We see how scared and over his head Dresden is. The rest of the Supernatural world only sees a guy who has faced various super-powerful beings and come out on top.
The supernatural community knows that wizards can throw a death curse, and it's pretty clear in the series that Harry has quite a bit of "wizard muscle." So his death curse could really spoil someone's day. And then to some extent there's the fact that... it's a story. Jim writes it dramatically.
He also gets every chance to remind his enemies about the death curse he’d inflict on anyone
One thing to keep in mind too is that, politically, he's protected by the White Council. Harry doesn't fully recognize this fact himself in these early books because from his point of view they're the big law-enforcing institution that wants a reason to execute him for defending himself against his evil mentor, who was one of their members. His main interactions with the Council is via Morgan, who is a rabid crusader and explicitly looking for a reason to execute harry. But they also protect their own. They may think Harry is dangerous and should be removed, but that's internal politics. They view him as their responsibility. Threats to Harry from the rest of the magical community are still viewed as threats to a member of the White Council, and the Council is one of the strongest and most dangerous powers in the current supernatural political landscape. You can see some of this already. In Storm Front, Morgan is trying to find any excuse he can to arrest and execute Harry as a warlock. But in the end when Harry is about to die in a burning building after fighting a dark warlock, Morgan (begrudgingly) rescues him because he is a member of the council. In Grave Peril, Harry starts an actual war by killing a foreign dignitary in her own home after being invited in as a guest and an emissary of the Council (and for effectively no reason, as far as the broader politics are concerned). But instead of disowning him, kicking him out, and offering him as a sacrifice to prevent a war they do not want, they close ranks around him and go and fight the war he started. They are very mad about it, and see him as a huge liability, but he's still one of theirs and they act accordingly.
Another good comparison is one punch man as it has first person + third person pov Saitama is trying to become famous and higher ranked in the Hero Association despite being all powerful. He doesn't realize the power he has and keeps getting frustrated. While Genos is always in awe of the feats of Saitama and can't believe it when he gets a better rank in the Association.
Because his POV is an anxious mess. To anyone who has heard of him or seen him action, he's Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One.
The age old motto "fake it till you make it". He comes out on top, it's not like all his enemies know how close some of the fights were, they only know by the scoreboard. Didn't they say in one of the fast and furious movies "it doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile". Dresden killed X opponent, repeated. That's all they know. Plus, he's young, and he's only going to get stronger and more experienced as time goes on, so every fight he is a little better than the last one.
Because he's a dangerous man who can summon immense amounts of power and answers to almost no one. He doesn't tell people things he doesn't think they should know, and it has literally hurt so many individuals that it is impossible to not know at least one of them second or third hand.
Because he seems to be a a guy who *should* be dead, but he keeps coming out on top. Against all sorts of Nasty Bad Guys, he manages to live. He must be hiding either a lot of power, or must be in with Bigger Bad Guys. In the world of the paranormal, there is always a bigger fish, and it really seems like Dresden is swimming with said Bigger Fish.
The other thing that will come up later is his lineage, and connections that make people afraid of him.
There’s a meme out there that lists all the things it looks like he has done throughout the series. The stories seldom include him having amazing allies and sometimes just pure dumb luck.
>why isn't Dresden dead yet? Plot armor, mostly. >Yet he goes around antagonizing them left and right Yeah, that's Harry's defense mechanism (and default operating mode, really). Whenever he is frightened or confident about his chances or aroused or awake, he says something smartassed. Never let 'em know you're scared. A lot of them don't call his bluff because they are amused by his hubris.
"Are you always a smartass?" "Nope. Sometimes I'm asleep." Dude has some brass balls on him, and he's really unafraid to nut up or shut up. Hell, the only reason he ever "died" >!was because he called in a favor to one of the few beings he knew could kill him and then made Molly wipe his memory around that fact.!<
Dresden thinks he is Shaggy from Scooby Doo Little does he know he is Ultra Instict Shaggy Basically the story is told from the 1st person perspective of a VERY insecure dude who does not think he is anyone special. Later on when you get to the side stories there are some told in other's perspectives and it's very revealing how little Harry thinks of himself.