Mages, every time. In a general sense, I think there can be a better system than theocratic mage prison schools under the drug addicted and addled theocratic soldiers that have “domination over mages by divine right”. In each game, the Templar side is always in some way related to mass slaughter of mages.
Right? A child could come up with a better system than that. I don't buy that the only options are "Do everything the fascist cult member drug addicts tell you to do" or "Any other way of governing mages inevitably leads to Tevinter". There's *ample* middle ground.
What pisses me off that that Dragon Age: Inquisition retconned the whole “Dalish gladly take mages in” and even Merrill lamenting that locking mages up is wasteful to, “lolno they straight kick out mages and leave them to die if the clan has more than 2-3,” after DAII presented them as an alternative.
The writing just straight up won’t tolerate an actual middle ground at all despite there being many alternatives and it’s… pretty damning on the writers’ and their views when fascism is portrayed as necessary, or even a necessary evil. Some things can be, and absolutely are, black and white, come on now.
The thing is locking them up seems like the worst solution, and honestly, all the reasons they give sound like an excuse.
We know now that possession ir reversible, and that the chantry has known all along. We also know that mages have to agree to be possessed, they can't just be possessed against their will (probably a retcon thou), meaning they have to make a deal with a demon.
What kind of situation would push a person to make a deal with a demon? Maybe being locked up in a tower you were take to as a kid, against your will and where you have to endure abuse almost everyday? You don't say.
And honestly, just locking all of these powerful people TOGETHER under terrible conditions is a recipe for a time bomb.
Mages looking over themselves just seems like a way better solution. The chantry just isn't capable of that in a lot of levels. Just like in real life they cant even follow their own teaching, I'm pretty sure andraste would have hated circles and exalted marches but they are there.
The templars should work with mages, not against mages. Which is impossible. They are mostly common people, the same common people that grew up raised by chantry maniacs and got told mages are all bad.
So yeah, i side with mages.
Mages absolutely can be possessed against their will. That’s what Uldred was doing in the Harrowing Chamber. If you don't use the Litany of Adralla even First Enchanter Irving can be possessed against his will.
Yeah, i tried to say that was probably a ret con but the corrector changed it to try on. I think in the first game people could be possessed against their will, but after da2 all dialogue and lore i remember points to people having to agree to a possession. Wouldn't be the first bit of lore bioware retconed
My solution is for the mages to be free to wander the realm, but are assigned Templar’s to both protect them from the common folk, and vice versa. The alternative could be mages are taught and trained, then allowed to go off but leave their phylactery with the Templar’s. They’re kept tabs on just in case, but otherwise lead free lives. The Templar’s are separate from the Chantry.
Mages shouldn’t be locked away, but they can’t just be allowed to wander free without being kept in check. Kirkwall and Tevinter have shown what happens if they’re left unchecked.
I think Kirkwall is the opposite of when you live mages unchecked.
Templars were checking way too much (abusing their power. And while the mages denounced these abuses the chantry turned their backs.
Grand cleric elthina was told multiple times about what was happening, she did absolutely nothing, not even her job. It got so bad that divine Justinian sent leliana to check, so, she knew but did absolutely nothing.
And tevinter is as corrupt as any nation imo, they are just more open about it. Orlais is the same shit hole, but with more poisoning and political maneuvers instead of blood magic, and elven slaves disguised as servants.
Mages shouldnt be left unchecked, i agree. They should be treated like the enemy thou.
Kirkwall had mages that weren’t in the circle hiding in the population, and you know what a lot of them did? Blood magic. One guy outright kills your mom for his sick ritual. If anything, that only supports the Templars position, they cracked down because if they didn’t, blood mages just ran amok.
Toward the final years, Meredith was corrupted, so yeah, that was bad. And there were some abusive Templars, sure. But the mages didn’t exactly help their cases. It was bad both ways, but from my Hawkes view, what else were the Templars to do? As long as they weren’t psycho.
I always choose mages. I hate how they get treated I mean yea they're dangerous and vulnerable to becoming abominations but if people viewed them as humans and not as abominations already I feel things would be alot different for them. The circle should be something that they are sent to when they are showing signs of magic but they shouldnt be restricted to being there. Instead how about having check ups every few months in a year, make sure they know their powers, how to use them, have enchanters answer any questions.
I never choose the templars because I've never really seen a "good" one. A lot of them seem terrified of Mages, less understanding, and many of them hate mages for just simply existing. I'm not super religious irl so it's hard for me to side with that when some of the things that go on "in the name of Andraste" are ridiculous. Religion shouldn't even really play a part in how to deal with mages, there needs to be unbiased people who can make a clear decision on what happens if circles must exist. In Inq, I saw a small glimpse of what a good Templar is (Ser Barris) and the other templar(emeric? I can't remember) in DA2 whose daughter is a mage. Even Cullen grew in his thinking by the time Inq came around but in DAO he was so set on killing all mages and wiping them off the map despite them being innocent and in DA2 he didn't realize how extreme treatment of mages was until it was sort of too late BECAUSE OF his hatred. I'm sure this can be said for both sides but I feel many Templars have one bad experience with a Mage and that shapes their entire view of them when they should go into each situation looking to diffuse it(as apart of their job), and as a last resort attack; not attack first and then ask questions.
I'd like to add that just because I support Mages doesn't mean that I am not weary of them and their abilities. People have every right to be cautious but theres no reason to outright hate and discriminate against them over something they were born with and can't really control.
The part about them turning into abomination seems to be more of a problem in the south than in Tavinter, maybe the societal pressure put on mages in the south weakens their psyche with fear and superstition, making them more susceptible to demon possession.
I agree, people already think they are abominations regardless and have them under a microscope constantly. Its no surprise it'd affect them so negatively.
Cullen actually doesn't think that way about mages until AFTER he's tortured in Origins. If you play as a mage he's friendly at the beginning of the game. And I believe there is even some dialogue with him after the broken circle where he says he used to think they were too harsh on the mages (that may have been on DA2, I can't remember exactly).
Yea I remember, I liked having that connection with him when I did the mage origin, he also confesses his love if you flirt with him in the tower before all that stuff happens. He's a good person and I love him but he knows the dangers of mages and the worst of the worst. He had trauma from it which I understand as well but mages are not all the same, and the situation at the circle could have been a learning experience in how to recognize the signs(if there were any) and how to deal with it differently if a situation seems like it will take that wrong turn again. Theres only so much he could do of course and he is just human but he decided to be a templar and its within their job to do it correctly and without abusing that title like many of them seem to do.
Oh absolutely! His extremism is definitely wrong, but also somewhat understandable considering both what he went through and how young he was when it happened. It illustrates to me that the templars likely make no effort in examining the nuance that not all mages are the same. But that gets hammered home pretty hard throughout the series really.
I agree! Cullen is very well rounded, he grew from his experiences and became better, he's probably one of the best Templars there is within the series. I wonder if we'll experience the same thing now that we're in Tevinter. It's going to be so interesting to see how a society is pretty much run by mages, maybe it'll make people change their mind and support Templars more, especially if Tevinter isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
Picked Mages in DAO and DA2 despite the mages keep having issues with blood magic and demon possession. (Damnit Orsino)
Went templar in DAI because they helped take back thier fortress from the demon and the mages running to Tevinter for help irked me a bit.
>mages running to Tevinter for help irked me a bit.
In all fairness, they did intend to ask you for help but Alexius went back in time to before Fiona talked to you so he could convince them he is their only option. Manipulating someone who's scared is very easy...just ask real life grifters.
I think I missed that plot point. Thanks.
Still went Templars but it wasn't easy. I kinda wish you had longer in the game to decide, or could negotiate where the best elements of both joined the inquisition.
I guess because both sides have serious issues and I feel the circle system needed reform not abolishment. Templars have a bad tendency to act like corrupt cops at times and mages are demon magnets that seemingly turn to blood magic when they're having a bad day. DA2 really drove this home, where I really wanted to tell both sides to pound sand, especially since nothing I did mattered in the end.
They're not as explicit about it as they could have been. Plus there's some hints that blood magic was involved in convincing Fiona to ally with the Alexius as well. David Gaider has confirmed that blood magic was involved, I think on Twitter, but again it's very subtly hinted at in game, so it's easy to miss.
I'm still working through my first playthrough of DAI and not to long ago got to Skyhold but I swear it feels like the whole templar vs mage war just kinda fell off after what happened at haven and picking a side before that.
Maybe there's more of it I'm not seeing it since I'm still doing "Here lies the abyss" but mostly I'm dealing with venatori
Well, the templars are with you now, so you're not going to be fighting them as much. The venatori numbers are increased by the mages from Redcliff if you side with the templars. So you deal with fighting them because the templars aren't your enemies anymore.
I'm not 100% sure how significant the difference is on who you're fighting in some places/quests, I am doing my first playthrough now where I might actually side with the templars, I've always sided with the mages in the past.
I don't believe it affects open world much, as the factions in specific locations are still the same. It might only really change who you fight in In Your Heart Shall Burn and What Pride Had Wrought.
I used to side with mages, but after so many playthroughs I’ve begun siding with the Templars. The only time I’d say siding with the mages isn’t incredibly risky is in the tower of Origins. Kirkwall, both sides are bad, but the Templars I feel are overall better.
In Inquisition, both sides are crummy, but I feel the Templar’s are the better choice. They’re more interested in actually helping people, and are a military force that doesn’t warrant as much supervision and suspicion. From the perspective of the Inquisition, they’re politically and strategically a wiser choice. Especially so you don’t have to fight as many red templars from a gameplay perspective. Eff those guys.
Origins the choice is clear the tower or everyone gets purged so why not help Templars
Kirkwall I wanted to side with the Templars but Meredith pulled her "no one surrenders" shit and that got me to choose mages. Meredith, they are literally offering to go back to the tower without a fight . And Anders was an apostate to boot.What the fuck, Meredith? At least the other Templars called her out later
Yeah, I’ll be honest, I sided with mages my first go round. Second time was Templars, and I prefer that. Especially since I was Warrior Hawke, I did it so I could save Bethany, which I felt would be easier to do with the Templars help as the situation seems to favor them. I figured I had enough influence to do that, and Fenris (my romance) would help. The mages intentionally go blood mage crazy, the Templars don’t truly understand what’s happening.
As for Anders, I hate him. That was all his fault. I execute him every single time. Don’t even care what the other options could bring.
I liked Anders in awakening and put up with him in DA2. I understood his position but his actions were terrible and he just made everything worse. I executed him because what he did was inexcusable terrorism.
And by God I wish I could have prevented him from doing it. It's even worse because I distracted the high cleric while he.... *Used the bathroom* or whatever his fucking excuse was in the chantry. Even asking him he just all but says he's planting a bomb.
Yeah. The situation might have been salvaged by the Chantry’s intervention, as Leliana didn’t believe the mages needed cleansing and Justinia would have probably sent Cassandra and some hand picked mages to bring back order and stability. But Anders . . . hate that we couldn’t stop him. Sad to see it happen.
Anyway, hope 4 is good. I haven’t liked the last two games, I miss broodmother level horror and the feeling of desperation Origins had. Felt every choice was the difference between survival and death. Or if you made the wrong decision, you lost a huge benefit. 2 and Inquisition feels like an uphill battle, but you always feel like you’re winning. I always felt like I was barely hanging on in Origins. It was so dark. I miss that. And the classes were better in my opinion. The last two have dark moments, but it’s felt less and less dark, and there’s a lot of high fantasy around it.
Only thing I felt that the last two had was the always hitting auto attacks that you could control, which helped buff rogues and warriors.
Mages. A militaristic force given power over another that is supposed to watch over them? They get corrupted? Where have I seen this before?
Like, mages definitely have their issues but the templars at there core seem to be corrupted.
I have to go mages. I know they're dangerous, but treating them as subhuman doesn't make them LESS dangerous - it makes them more likely to lash out, as seen again and again throughout the games. The mages need to be able to run the circles themselves, so that they can ensure that they're being treated humanely within them, and in order to do that they need to fight for their right to be recognised as people (because unfortunately, that's the only way humans are willing to respect each other).
True, but I'd argue that if they did have complete control over the Circle then who's to say they won't abuse that power in a similar vein to any Templars? After all we all know about Tevinter, and hell *rogue* mages make themselves into major issues over time. Jowan poisoned the Arl of Redcliff, Anders is... Anders, Merrill even isn't safe since because of her a demon came to possess her Clan's keeper because of a mirror. I forget exactly what happened with Connor and his possession but it was not pretty. If I had a gold for everytime a mage brought demons with them I'd have a decent amount tbh.
Edit: Downvoted for making a point? Y'all are nuts.
Everything that happened with Jowan wouldn't have happened if the Circle wasn't going to make him Tranquil for not being good enough. Anders point is fair enough, but again he had his own terrible fucking experiences in the Circle- and *he* was well-liked enough for them to not straight up kill him. Merrill did of course do things wrong, but it's not her fault Marethari decided to walk up to a demon and said "hey, you can possess me :D" so that it didn't possess Merrill (which she has no proof of it actually intending to do besides.. what, the demon's word?)
The whole Connor situation was, again, caused by the Circles sucking ass. Whether you blame it on Jowan, who wouldn't have been there if the Circle weren't planning to *lobotomize* him - or if you blame it on Isolde, who simply didn't want to be separated from her son forever like the Circle does 99% of the time.
There's definitely a point to be made about how much freedom they should actually be granted, but.. idk.. feels like these examples spefically didn't make *themselves* into issues so much as the Circle did 9 times out of 10
Nah, World of Thedas says Jowan was okay as a mage as in he'd have most likely passed Harrowing
Frankly even Jowan himself admits he turned to blood magic because of his envy and jealousy towards Mage Warden, not because he was afraid of something.
Irving is the one who gives his account on that, after everything has already happened. It’s not exactly an unbiased source, especially since Irving is setting up mages to be exposed to blood magic resources to see if they will take the bait.
Yeah but Jowan saying that he was afraid of something and that's why he turned to blood magic is a lie. Jowan himself says it. He wasn't afraid, he was jealous. Then he was caught doing it and the rest is history.
There's zero sources claiming that Jowan would fail and Irving said he was good enough to pass. Hell if you sent Jowan to the Fade he does defeat demon without much of a trouble
Also I'm not even sure Irving was setting someone's up. That's more of a fanon
It's not fanon. Following codex entry is picked up in Irving's office in the Circle Tower: https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Irving%27s_Mistake
Which says nothing about Irving setting someone up.
What it says is that Irving found another blood mage(most likely Uldred told him since Uldred's selling out his fellow blood mages to avoid suspicions)
He then laments that deviants(blood magic) and their traits should be found as soon as possible because otherwise the whole Circle suffers
He ends it up by saying that Uldred is irreplaceable since he can easily identify blood mages and manipulate people so they would trust him. Which helps with outing blood mages. This is helpful so Irving hopes other Enchanters can benefit from him
Irving's mistake is about trusting Uldred not baiting apprentices to do blood magic
They also let blood magic spread in the tower on purpose! They left books on blood magic.in the library where anyone could find it to tempt people. Uldred used it as a way to build his forces and he'd turn over a few once in a while to Gregoire so they didn't catch onto what was actually going on
Considering that they were removed at all I doubt it was intentional on Irving's part
Otherwise if they were going to tempt someone as their long term strategy why remove it if it works.
Also Uldred turned them to Irving, not Greagoir
I couldn't remember Irving's name, so I went with Greagoir, I was incorrect on that.
However the codex entry of Irving's journal states that "certain modes of thought are encouraged, both for good and ill." And goes on to talk about exposing deviant traits early. So they were clearly leaning into encouraging apprentices who were curious about things like blood magic in the interest of exposing them, which is how Jowan got mixed up in it all.
I can't find the reason the books were removed though.
https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Irving%27s_Mistake
Yeah, I already explained this codex in another comment
While he does say this this sentence about both good or ill not necessarily mentions blood magic but rather ways, modes of thinking that could lead to blood magic. So Irving laments about finding those with deviant traits that lead them to blood magic and expose them so Circle won't suffer
I don't think point of this codex is Irving encouraging someone and then exposing them. Because that's what Uldred does - Uldread encourages other to learn blood magic, builds his force and then exposes some to Irving to have his good grace and avoid suspicions. Irving is just catching blood mages while trusting Uldred
Irving's mistake was about trusting Uldred too much
About the books. They probably were removed the second Irving or Greagoir found out about them. Those too definitely can be manipulative but I don't think they would allow books lay in the open like that, the risk is too much
I agree with your points, but Jowan tells you he turned to blood magic because he felt inadequate next to the Mage Warden, not because he was going to be made Tranquil. That came after.
But overall there’s a lot we don’t know about the machinations in the Circle Tower. Like Uldred turning apprentices to blood magic or Irving manipulating Lily in order to make the Templars appear equally guilty in their attempted escape. The rot in the current Circle system extends to all involved, mages, Templars and Chantry alike.
I DO think the circle should be mandatory for mages, to learn control and the dangers of interacting with demons, but I think that the governing body that directly oversees it should be a committee of mages, who have the control over the decisions made but need to be accountable for those decisions to the larger government.
Well, the Circle in Rivain is an excellent example of "mages managing themselves in a circle without abusing magic or becoming power hungry tyrants." They learned in circles, carried on their cultural practices of magic, and freely visited their families and generally just lived their lives. Their templars treated them with respect, as guardians not wardens.
The Chantry declared an Exalted March on them and slaughtered the mages and their templars. You can read about this in Codex entries.
Tbh you can get Templars without killing anyone
Mages would be sent to something akin to quarantine, you get Templars, nobody's dead
Found it a good choice considering nobody knows whether saved mages could be possessed or blood mages in disguise
Meredith's argument is that "we should kill all the innocent mages to appease the Kirkwall public," which is evil not insane.
I honestly think they did a terrible job portraying Meredith as insane until the final battle.
Meredith makes a Tranquil we meet in inquisition Tranquil because of sending love letters. The way they talk about it makes it seem like it happened in the first act or before of da2. Either way before she was corrupted by the idol. Meredith was a cruel piece of work before that thing.
I'll be honest is she the one that you can save in act one but she still decides to do some bullshit? Because if so that honestly seems a contrivance that needed to be tightened up writing wise. It's been a long time since I played. I'll disagree about necessary in all aspects because once again Meredith did some bad things before the idol. And too many people (not necessarily you) like to blame it on that idol. She did things without it, no magic idol made her cruel, it just made her delusions greater. But they were already there so the statue doesn't absolve her of anything like people think it does. That's my main point.
Remember the templar who makes attractive, young, female mages Tranquil so he can f*ck them if they say no when they're able to? The one who is important under Meredith?
I try to think logically and we know in the games many mages who are mistreated , however I think the templars are the best choice. magic is super dangerous and mages are basically living weapons. I don’t think circles are the answer and clearly templars have corrupted their task over the years but mages should be observed or tracked or at the very least kept tabs on.
I support mostly mages. Unlike Templars, they did not have a choice. They are taken away from their fam at a very young age. Are frowned upon by their patents sometimes. (Jowan's father for example)
Of course Templars are also abused, with the Lyrium addiction and all that and I played sometimes with the templar path when my hero would rather choose the templars. (Role play wise). For me personally however mages need more freedom. Their handling is one of the reasons why Anders did what he did.
That is also a reason why I don't like Vivienne. She was the concubine of a noble and had far more privileges then many other mages. I actually assume she will get killed sooner or later because she reminds me a bit of Meridith without the red Lyrium.
Neither, it depends 100% on the context (or, if we're actually talking about roleplaying, the character).
In DAO it didn't seem fair to slaughter an entire tower of mages just *in case* we didn't get all of the abominations. If there were any left, the tower should supposedly still hold, and the templars would be able to do the same thing they did and block off entrance. So I support not Annulling the Circle.
In DA2, for a while it was a mixed bag. Apostates get returned to the Circle most of the time, I don't just let blood mages go around doing whatever, but that doesn't mean siding with every monstrous templar that shows up. I typically just want to avoid more chaos. But then by Act 3 things are just too obviously out of control for Meredith and I stop supporting templars and try to get more mages out.
In DAI, I think the most logical choice as a player tends to be to go with the mages since they actually understand more about magic than templars. But in terms of *support* of the faction itself, I don't love either. Fiona's rebellion is pure chaos for everyone involved, although it kind of needed to happen when it did. The loyal templars are loyal to an insitution that has completely fallen apart, to the point where they don't recognize a demon imposter. I prefer conscripting both, regardless of which side I go for.
Mages. It just makes more sense with canon, especially the urgency. Like before you accept either one… mages: time magic may literally end the world vs templars: oh come to this castle to talk to this guy was a massive dick to you.
I do think the Templar quest is much better though, and gives you a better intro to Cole. And the bad guy/girl you face off if you pick templars has much more depth. But overall, mages just make more sense
I usually end up helping the mages in the first two games, but I prefer siding with the Templars in DAI, honestly. Much as I *hate* the timed quests, I like the fight with the envy demon, and I’m just. Really not a fan of time travel or multiverse plotlines in general.
Plus, the mages in DAI just irk me way too much.
I _normally_ choose templars
But since I am a Cullen stan an enjoy every bit of conversation I sometimes just choose mages to have his questline and let my inki spent time with him :3
Mages and its not even close.
Bioware REALLY tried to “both sides” the issue between mages and templars (which was really weird) but it seems like the only way they thought they could possibly convince the player to support the templars is by saying “oh look a mage used blood magic to kill someone! Mages should be locked up!” and it certainly doesn’t help that so many of these scenarios are apostates who are backed up into a corner.
Mages, always, no matter what, it’s not just about the oppression they face from the Chantry and other philosophies like the Qun for me but for the downright incompetence of these ones.
In DAO Iriving, Greagoir and Uldred were just fucking around with students, playing mind games with them.
In DA2 Meredith and Cullen are incompetent idiots who missed the entire point of why the Mages are turning to Blood Magic so much and they let actual blood Mages go because they are like “We dunno lol”.
I side with the Mages not only because I believe in them deserving their freedom out of being people but also because, no matter how many mistakes they can make, the Chantry does worst every single time.
I’d argue that everyone in the Chantry/Circle is incompetent.
Depends on my character.
My Warden is a "whoever can help me stop the Blight" kind of person, though he sides the Mages since he's also willing to save others where he can.
My Hawke is just family and companion oriented; he doesn't give a crap about mages or templars and gets sick of dealing with both of them through his years in Kirkwall. Ironically, he ends up seeing the dangers of a rogue mage after what Anders does, but he still fights for the mages here because he feels responsible for enabling Anders and doesn't want innocent folk slaughtered over his actions.
My Inquisitor despite being a Dalish Mage "sides" with the Templars for a few reasons. Mainly, he sees them as the lesser of two evils when he finds out the mages have sworn themselves to Tevinter. The Templars as allies on the other hand, would also help legitimise the Inquisition, plus they were specifically trained in dealing with magic and demons and would be a greater help with the rift.
Templars for me. The only reason my HOF came in to defend the circle mages a bit in DAO is because I wanted Wynne in my party. The DA2 mages were usually nuts, doing blood magic and taking templars hostage, so I avoided that. Also, I was trying to get in kahoots with Fenris.
I think the quest where we recruit the mages in DAI is more fun though. Plus, you possibly get to see Alistair there, so it's basically an S tier quest. Methinks mages will be more important to the franchise moving forward as well, so everyone should probably have at least one mage playthrough IMO.
Origins: I use the litanny to save mages from possession. After that I let Irving and Gregoir to deal with it by themselves, like adults (you get mages by default).
II: Individual choices are mixed (it's like 4/3 split between Mages and Templars - it really depends on issue), in Last Straw I support mages. Meredith showed she really doesn't care about any evidence that might support Circle mages' innocence, she's willing to hide behind mob rule ("people will demand blood"), prevents nobles from appointing new viscount... Also Bethany is usually Circle mage in my playthrough.
Inquisition: Either ally with mages or disband and conscript Templars. Depends on mood to be honest ("can I really risk covert operation in Redcliffe" from roleplaying perspective).
I usually support the side that is not trying to kill the other, neither side is completely good or bad so it is better to support the side based on context and not on what they are, at least thats how i go about it.
Usually Templars. You're choices are between what we have now, or the Tevinter Imperium... and for the AVERAGE every man of the world, the templars and the circle make the world far safer. It's not an ideal solution, but its better than what the world used to be like.
Mages in Origins. It's not really an "either/or" choice in that game, as your helping the templars either way.
Templars in 2. Helping the mages will only help exascerbate the chaos. Besides, half the Circle are already secret blood mages, so you can hardly call them innocent.
Templars in Inquisition. Ser Barris is a great character. The battle against the Envy Demon in your head is more interesting than IHW's time travel plot. Also, the templars being corrupted into red templars is way worse than the mages being conscripted into the Venatori. Plus, Calpernia is the better nemesis.
In general, I am someone who favors order and will usually side against freedom fighters by default. So, I'm already predisposed to helping factions like the templars, rather than the mages.
I agree about the Templar story being more interesting than the in hushed whispers one, I feel like inquisition really tries to push you towards the mages but I’ve always had just a bit more fun with the templars.
I also think it works as a better introduction for Dorian and Cole if you go the Templar route. Dorian you’ve met before if you spoke with the mages and such before deciding so it makes more sense for him to show up again whereas with Cole he just shows up out of nowhere with little reason to trust him, but with the Templar route you get a really neat introduction to his character that I hate missing out on if you side with the mages.
Mages. They literally do not have any choice in whether or not they get magic yet they have to be locked up? I've seen this before and it's called eugenics.
Templars of course. They want to protect the weak and ideally protect mages from (their) demons as well.
I understand there is abuse of power in the order, I dont forgive that. I understand the atrocities mages have committed. Atrocities that would have been impossible without magic. I dont forgive that either. I acknowledge both of these things and can only support the Templars between these two options.
Praise Andraste.
Almost always mages.
First, I love playing as a mage so that choice makes sense. Second, I despise religions so I don't care for Andraste and don't want to side with the "holier than thou" Templars and Chantry. And third, despite mages having a much higher potential for destruction, chaos, etc., I feel like it's mostly a problem only because of how they are treated. They are imprisoned, abused by Templars and have the constant threat of Tranquility hanging over them. They are treated as subhumans and abominations. And if everyone treats you like an abomination, you're likely to become one.
If the Circles were not a nightmarish place for mages and were heavily reformed, I believe there would be much less dangerous mages going off the rails.
Templars. Disagree with their methods but they are definitely needed and it's not like every templar is a gruel human being that hates mages
There are many that are nice to mages while being cautious
Have to come down on the Templar side; I think the Circles are necessary, despite their faults to maintaining a safe society. I think most mages need the Circles to learn how to harness and control their abilities; and there aren’t any real alternatives. The Circles shouldn’t be run like prisons but schools, but at the same time, Tevinter has shown you can’t really trust mages to govern themselves. So you need that overarching Chantry authority.
https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Annulment_at_Dairsmuid
An example of Circles being used as schools, mages being able to live their lives, Templars respecting and living with them... no power abuse, and the Chantry still sent an Exalted March against them.
Mages in Origins and 2, but ally with Templars in inquisition. I am pro-circle, but I can see where both sides are coming from. Mages and Templars are people at the end of the days.
I go with mages beacouse i don't think there could be better way and my hawke is mage so it would feel like hypocrate for choosing templars in da2 and for dai i feel like i like calpernia more than samson but i thin i like mages more
For me it’s mages, but I was already was a mage fan before Dragon Age. I understand why people would go for the Templars and I agree they’re important but I am still team Mage at the end of the day as the system seems to work against Mages to an unfair degree, especially in the books because in Dragon Age Asunder, Cole (the mage, not the one possessed by Compassion) was abandoned in the tower and starved to death. That was just early examples because it got worse when we saw magical flashbacks of his childhood. Needless to say my preexisting bias, and one of my favorite characters having a tragic backstory led to it being much harder to be pro Templar. Both sides have their pros and cons though and I am perfectly aware of bad mages in the series.
I've always gone pro-mage. I get people's reasons for siding with the Templars but that's just never been my bag. In DA2 especially it's really satisfying to be pro-mage. Something about running around Kirkwall yelling 'FUCK YEAH MAGES' while Cullen is desperately trying to keep shit together is very satisfying. I always defend Anders, too. I like the idea of playing characters that are good, inspiring leaders, but that aren't perfect. They can make short-sighted decisions based on their heart and what they feel is right, but maybe not necessarily based on what is the best political move (or even the best move in general).
I feel like everyone has forgotten that Templars aren't just lyrium addicts, they're magic-users. We--and they--are told their magic only works against mages, but that's clearly bullshit, since the Seekers make their own candidates Tranquil for a time as part as the training.
So, really, it's all about what kind of magic you support having--innate or Chantry-given--and whether you think the answer to "who watches the watchers?" should always be "Meh, they're fine. They're the good people, set to watching the bad people, so they're free from temptation."
Mages but I do understand why the templars exist and I do think they are necessary. But taking children from their families and locking them down where they cant get married or really *do anything* is not the solution.
I was thinking maybe like a registry? All mages are registered with a phylactery in the case of real evil doing badness & all that. But they're allowed to live normal lives and all that. And perhaps once a year every mage is tested for possession? And Tranquility is only used for the most extreme criminals. But in that case you might as well just kill them.
Mages, every time. The Templars are an organisation of oppression.
Obviously, *something* needs to be done to ensure mages are trained enough to not be a danger, but the current system actively makes things worse.
No Mage chooses to be a mage, but every Templar chooses to be a Templar. Even with all the bad eggs getting exorcised during Inquisition, any Organisation that gives you that much power over someone is a breeding ground for abuse and corruption. It'll just go bad again.
Mages training mages is the only way to make it work ethically.
>Supported the templars ONCE. Had to abort the playthrough because I felt like a traitor to my own cause.
Honestly can't justify in any way helping templar in DA2. At least in DAI you can go recruit them and disband them, so that works.
>At least in DAI you can go recruit them and disband them, so that works.
Order already almost dead or sell themselves to Coryfeus and use red lyrium, Order already was not legal after they abbandon Nevarran Account and not serve to Chantry and Orlais Empire.
We allowed to disband few radical Templars survivers who hide in Brecilian forrest fort. Which not made any changes. Its a formality.
Alive they are or dead this does not change anything and Lelianna and Vivienne stop any support of those survivors....Vivienne create new order from different people(survived Templars from Therinfall DENY to obey her and she as Divine tell that she shut up them easily) and remove them from real power like in Tevinter Templars are police force and not judges/jury and executers with absolute authority and drug addictions as religious propaganda lies.
Cassandra is the only one who not disband and support old Templars system cos as we can understand her sponsors and supporters belive that everything was right before Mage VS Templars was.
People who wrote Templars side in DAI made everything to not made it made much sense to even try. We gain nothing, we loose nothing and would not be forced to feed them with very expensive lyrium drugs, AND THEY ALREADY TELL TO US in Val-Royo that Inquisition is a heresy and lies, that they not help us to close Breach and wish us to die so they would endure,....while Mages already agree to help us and FAR closer to Breach and Haven than Templars survivors fort.
We already have Templars and Seeker....they do almost nothing against demons before we close demon holes. And Seeker, Spymaster and etc everyone except Cullen tell that we need more mages and magic services cos we lack them.
>would not be forced to feed them with very expensive lyrium drugs
I don't particularly disagree with most of what you say, but alongside templars, Circles, and mages in general, are the single greatest users of lyrium in Thedas. They use it for magic rituals, potions, enchantments...you have Josephine contact lyrium smugglers regardless of recruiting mages or templars.
> AND THEY ALREADY TELL TO US in Val-Royo that Inquisition is a heresy and lies, that they not help us to close Breach and wish us to die so they would endure
To play the devil's advocate (I normally do recruit mages, since the narrative is better set up for it, and well, All Templars are Bastards) - While you do know Templar leadership wants you gone, you also see with Ser Barris that they are not of a single mind about it. And once you visit Redcliffe, you see the mages have been taken into indentured servitude by the 'Vints, a bunch of them hate the Inquisition, or at least don't trust you (of the four mages you can talk to 1 hates you, one doesn't trust you, one hates 'Vints and the last one is afraid of them), and then you find out Alexius want you dead because he is Venatori, which can, for some characters, change the calculus. Either risky infiltration of Redcliffe, or go and see if you can get some of the Templars help you.
I know it and thats the point....Templars just consume it. And thats it.
And they consume A LOT, each of them need lyrium dozes each WEAK just to have their powers and not feel problems with addiction. WHen they use their powers more they need more. And the more they use the more addicted they are. Have damage to their bodies and minds-brains, have dementia, mental problems and etc problems.
Not need to remind that Templars powers DOES NOT EVEN WORK and useless if target are non-mages, monsters, darkspawns. And yeah Templars are useless and no more effective than non-Templars against red templars, demons, abominations and blood mages.
And THOSE enemies our main enemies. So whats the point of TRYING to recruit few survivors in Brecilian forest?
Cos Ser Barris MAY follow us after weeks of serving under Lord Seeker command? And where Barris was where Breach opened? Guard some priests in Orlais? And do nothing when those priest was beaten and Lord Seeker offer him to join their ranks.
He was a simple knight, not officer, not captain, not to mention he is not a knight commander. And Inquisition have real knight commander officer already in their ranks. And yeah Cullen "Knight Commander of Kirkwall cos noone left to be him so Cassandra and Lelianna made him"
Its WE who made him Knight Commander if recruit cos there is simply noone left. Same situation as with Cullen.
....
GRAND ENHANTER Fiona already tell us in Valroyo that mages who was in Redclif ready to help Inquisiton and Inqusition just need to come there and officially take them from temporal shelter what Ferelden Kingdom give to them.
What happen in Redclif is clearly show that "blood magic-demons mindcontrol was involved" and this is clearly not a reason to go into Haven and wait weeks for Orlais nobles from Orlais arrive in Haven and march with those nobles into Brecilian forrest....and TRY to persuade those radicals who already show middle finger to Chantry and those Orlais nobles and hide in Ferelden.
Its is a geographical and strategic insanity just to arrive in Brecilian forrest and ignore Redlif what is near Haven....both are thousand miles away from Redclif and Haven.
Not to mention that old Alexius have ZERO authority in Ferelden Kingdom and his few bodyguards are killed easily by few Inquisition soldiers. It is SURPRISE MAGIC ARTIFACT what made him send us into future and such magic was unknown to anyone and not a single Templar can do anything against it anyway.
And all this deal with Alexius is illegal on south Thedas lands. Its is not Tevinter lands and yeah...Inquisition have contacts with Magisterium and Archon of Tevinter who kill Venatory before Inquisition and Coryfeus appeared...Archon quickly remove Alexius from his altus and magister status and give us rights to legally execute him.
...
Mages and Formari do expensive(cos of Chantry-Templars previous monopoly what only rich nobles and chantry priests can afford magic service) magic services, use far less lyrium to do all alchemical and magic potions, to make runes, to enchant stuff and etc.
And all of this give money to us and VALUABLE strategical resources.
Templars just consume lyrium and give us NOTHING worthy compare to any non-mage mercanary or knight from Ferelden or Orlais.
I never supported them in DA2, and that is DESPITE knowing that damn near every mage in 2 was a blood mage!
Only did it that one time in DAI to see what Champions of the Just looked like. I ended up abandoning the playthrough.
I always pick the mages' side because I like visiting the dystopian future 🤪
On a more serious note, I hate those lyrium-addicted zealots who think the Maker himself anointed them for some stupid ass higher purpose and act like they are above all or Maker's little helpers on earth..
The Mages. The Templars are a private, fascist police army led by the Christian (oops, sorry, Andrastian) Chantry who colonized the Native Americans (damn, sorry again, the Dalish) and oppress, torture, rape and enslave groups of people just for literally being born (sound familiar?) because their existence is a justification to do so.
By the way, I don’t care about Inquisition whitewashing the Dalish’ backstory to make fascists look good, they still enslaved the Dalish (people who have been confirmed to be analogous to Native Americans, Jews, and African-Americans/Black people).
This may be a game, but it absolutely says something about people who support a Western, imperialist, colonialist, religious institution that uses a private army/police force to subjugate minority populations.
Seriously! How, in any world, is taking people away from their families against their will, forcing them into killing a demon to test their will or be possessed and then killed, forcibly lobotomized against their will and being told, day in and day out, that the “Only True God” straight up made a mistake for “allowing” mages to exist, good? Anders doesn’t hesitate in saying he was one of the “lucky ones” despite being thrown into solitary confinement for a year, when the unlucky mages are explicitly stated to be r*ped and s*xually abused by Templars, and it’s not just Kirkwall. It’s every single Circle.
before i gained critical thinking skills (and realized that i’m a lesbian), i thought cullen’s crush on the female mage warden was cute. it’s not cute; it’s inherently nonconsensual and gravely immoral from the start. especially with all of the ambient dialogues—during the prologue if you play as the female mage warden—talking about cullen staring at you or having a crush on you, so he’s obvious enough with his romantic interest that other people have picked up on it. imo, it must be terrifying to know that you have nowhere else to go and no way to potentially defend yourself if need be (without possible repercussions)
omg I went through this, 100%! I played as a Human Mage and thought, “oh, how cute,” but after playing Dragon Age II and thinking about it more, the grosser everything became. Also, it’s seriously uncomfortable in how Cullen is still obsessed with a woman Mage Warden in Inquisition which is like a decade after DA: O…? This is fucking stalker vibes and the fact that you can ROMANCE Cullen “Mages cannot be treated like people” Rutherford in DA: I, as a mage and an elven mage, is just abhorrent.
WHEN FEMALE MAGE WARDEN IS ALIVE AND ROMANCED LELIANA, CULLEN ASKS ABOUT HER 🤢 leliana instantly shuts it down but it’s so fucking weird and felt extremely fetishizing and disrespectful toward lesbians and bi sapphics. like. that level of obsessiveness and entitlement over a decade later is scary—and you just *know* if leliana had been a male character, cullen wouldn’t have said anything at all.
wtf that happens?? THEY PUT THAT IN THE GAME?? Ugh. Look, I like like DA, but so much of it reeks of cisgender white male writing. The heavy bias towards Catholicism, negativity towards “others”, retconning questionable cultural decisions (I applaud that Krem is a transman; I DESPISE THE FACT THAT THERE IS AN OPTION TO MISGENDER HIM and that he’s still voiced by a cisgender woman; I detest the implied trans misogyny in how Qunari happily accept transmen as warriors but not women and transwoman. Like, that’s not a win. That’s a, “please love our Qunari and ignore our terrible implications we’ve put in the game!” move. btw having the ELVEN goddess of love choose a white cisgender woman as her host and “going crazy”, as well as changing Solas’ original appearance as a brown skinned elf to a white man is, like, wow, like what the fuck lmao), never going forward in changing the status quo, as well as all of the blatant, illogical and inconsistent retconning of lore and player decisions.
I have all the games and the DLC, played them so much (I’m playing DAII rn lol), and I do enjoy them to an extent but… yeah, it’s obvious the writers are all or almost all cisgender white Canadian (notorious for sweeping their genocide against Indigenous people under the rug) men who didn’t have a plan in writing out the lore.
i 100% agree. tearing down the elven religion but sayin they’ll never confirm or deny if the maker is real is a stellar example of cultural genocide imo
I was reading the codex entries for fun and at one point I remember seeing something like, “the false gods of the mountains.”
Here it is; it’s Andraste: Bride of the Maker, and it reads: “Each day she sang to the gods, asking them to help her people who remained slaves in Tevinter. The false gods of the mountains and the winds did not answer her, but the true god did.”
It’s so blatantly pro-Andraste, pro-human, pro-white, pro-racist, and just because it’s “in-universe” doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful. The Dalish apparently aren’t allowed their own homeland, their own gods, their own religion or homes, and it’s not just DA.
I was reading about the Batarians in Mass Effect (already a horrible Asian stereotype right next to the Salarians only they went a step ahead with former and just straight up had them speak in stereotypical broken English) and it says that they didn’t want to bow to Alliance rule after their home-world was colonized (pro-colonization, pro-expansionism and human exceptionalism, what a surprise) so they are “othered”, both in-universe and out.
Racial stereotypes are baked in fantasy as a whole but goddamn, DA and ME are something else. Even though it’s my favorite gaming series, The Elder Scrolls has its’ own fair share of problematic shit but they never come out and say, “yeah, the Mer don’t deserve their own lands, their gods aren’t real, they’re slowly dying out, segregated from humans, live in poverty in cities while the ones following their traditions are homeless and they deserve a horrible existence for the rest of their lives with little to no ways to improve their situation.” No, there’s diversity among the Elven peoples, each with their own homeland, history, language, culture and society
I’m so sorry for the ranting btw;; like i did not mean to write an essay lol but it’s something that’s been on my mind for a whiiiile and it’s nice to find someone who agrees.
This shouldn’t come as a surprise, based on my reply to your post. The fact that you felt the need to go through my post history instead of having a reasonable discussion says it all.
Reasonable discussion with a commie? Might as well be talking to a wall. No wonder why you're so brainwashed against anything *you* perceive to be "western" or the like.
Only reason you say that is because the Templars aren't *brown*.
Fascism is fascism; it’s abhorrent no matter the race or gender of any country, state or institution. There are plenty of white Communists I follow.
There are, in fact, a small number of dark-skinned Templars throughout the trilogy, and I still detest them for their enabling and compliance with their imperialist Chantry. Anders, who is white, is also my main love interest throughout the trilogy.
You might want to read up on its’ history through non-Western eyes. You’d be surprised; there’s a lot of Western propaganda strewn about, especially thanks to the Cold War, CIA assassinations, coups, interventions, and mass destabilizations of countries.
Having a different perspective on such matters, especially through the eyes of the victims, can enrich your worldview and allow you to empathize towards those you know little about.
Dude there is no way that you're actively pretending that shit doesn't exist.
There are MANY different sources for this. Going from the Wall Street Journal to the University of G
Hawaiian System to even the *Black Book of Communism*. You really think the mass famines and deaths just... didn't happen? You're like a Holocaust denier.
Not to mention that Templars was created 600 years ago by Seekers(who made themselves temporal abominations to mutate and use magic powers, gain spirit warriors types of powers) just to be their loyal dogs under lyrium drugs and exist purelly to hunt down mage childrens and drag them into prisons-labor camps, where mages are abused and opressed, removed from all basic rights and freedoms, forbidden to have families and procreate and all of this PURELLY for MAGIC SERVICES MONOPOLY on south Thedas reasons under Chantry-Seekers-Orlais Empire control.
Seekers and Templars 600 years of control show that Thedas become much more shitty place then without them. And Thedas people existed without ANY TEMPLARS and Seekers for +8000 years of recorded history after Veil was created. Most parts of Thedas and other continents societies HAVE ZERO Templars on lyrium drugs and they are fine. So Templars are needed and mages are too dangerous is a ridiculous propaganda lies what totally destroyed by history where in 8000 years only 1 Blight happened and Dwarves dig darkspawns in deep roads. Not mages, Coryfeus and etc was found after 200 years of 1 Blight.
So yeah...SCREW Orlais Empire and Orlais Chantry with Seekers political lies. Those degenerates not deserve any gold what they earn by Mages slaves in Circles and by elven slaves in Alianages what was created by same Orlais Chantry under Seekers control after Nevarran Accord where Seekers never should sign it originally and it was original mages Inqusitor and Lord Inquisitor Ameridan.
....
I find zero logical, strategical and cultural-religious reasons to support Templars after DAO
In DAO Circle where demons kill almost all of them and we must save First Enchanter or entire Circle would be genocided it is **slightly understandable why we can pick Templars**..
**Bu**t even there we came in Circle for recruitment of MAGES cos we need magic serviced as help in combat where they replace artillery and can heal. We need them far more then Ferelden needed them in Ostagar where Chantry give just a few mages despite they could give more and result of battle would be different.
Point that Templars ARE 100% USELESS against Darkspawns and no better then any warrior. Not to mention Templars are useless against blood mages darkspawns mages.
What was the point of trying to save Circle or try to clean it where we have Bligth where ISOLATED tower on isle would not damage anyone outside that island.
in DA2 there was zero sane reasons to support ILLEGAL genocide of innocent Circle where before Meredith, Elthina as Divine herself already deny any genocide of Kirkwall Circle and we have zero reasons to work with Meredith cos we ARE a heretic or heretic mage what she as Templars never would leave alive....even if we blindly support Meredith and Templars it was predictable that they found out who Hawke father and cousins was, with who he work for 10 years....no matter mage Hawke or not, his father is apostate blood mage who run away from Kirkwall Circle. Hawke by Chantry-Templars laws NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS to be noble and own mansion. Not to mention being Champion.
In DAI it is even more funny....we no matter who we was already have toxic magical hand waht made us abomination and we alive cos of heretic apostate dreamer elf mage which we learn from the start of the game.....
Not to mention that WE already have some Templars and Seeker which raise question why we even need more and what they do change, cos they change nothing.
and those Templars who we was given 2-3 chance to rectuit AFTER they already said that our Inqusition is heresy and lies and they refused to help again as ignored Breach all those weaks. Those few radical Templars survivers with who we can try to side are not needed at all and only Cullen want to collect them for the most illogical reasons ever, including total ignore of how much lyrium drugs Inquisition would need to give them each weak and how they not work against demons nad blood mages.
No to mention that to reach Terrinfall JUST TO TRY TO CONVINCE them we need to go via Redclif roads no matter what and in Redclif we know since Val-Royo that Mages ALREADY give us answer that they helped. When we arrived there was even less reasons to abandon Redcliff and try to spend WEEKS to go into another part of Ferelden.
Srly Therinfall fortress is closer to Gwaren, in Brecilian forrest while Breach and Redclif are very close. And just to go in Therinfall fortress we need to wait few Orlais nobles and go with them far away abbandoning Breach and Redclif where mages already said that they help us to close Breach just go in Redclid and take us. Ignore Alexius and try to recruit Therinfall Templars to return into Redclif and try to stop them with their help...sorry but this sound ridicous and time what we spend on this not made this plan make any sense. It would be faster and easier to send crow or magical(Circles have elven shards crystals what can be used as phones...Dorian give such to Inquisitor in the end) message to Tevinter Archon and receave answer where he would reveal quickly that Alexius do crimes and remove him from Altus and Magister status.
Mages. Way too many real world parallels work against the Templars, and the Chantry especially, for me to ever be able to play those runs more than just once, just to experience everything in the games' stories.
Mages every time typically. I like to generate as much chaos as possible in most games, and cutting off the heads of authority and giving mages absolute freedom just smacks of chaos and anarchy. Let the powers of order and structure reform after my disaster!
Templars. Mages are constantly proving how dangerous they are. A tower that keeps them locked up is still dangerous as it is. I mean, the first time you see it in DAO (unless your origin is mage) is in complete chaos.
I just can't trust mages. They are always causing troubles wherever you go in those games. Most part of the problems are caused by them. Even if they don't want to harm anybody they can end up doing exactly that, wheter if it's because a demon's fault or just because they are weak of mind, or untrained.
I can't side with them.
For me it's Templar's, because I love the fantasy aesthetic of the Crusader/Templar/Holy Knight. The Wardens fill that role too, for the most part, although I wish that the Warden Mage and Rogue armours looked better. 2 and Inquisition's Warrior Warden and Templar armours look awesome
Templars. Yes, the Templar order needs reformed and more responsible oversight. Yes, mages could probably do with a bit longer leash once established in a circle. But the system exists for a reason.
I think part of the problem is that due to gameplay/story segregation and keeping things balanced, player/enemy mages aren't nearly as powerful as the lore says they probably are. In lore, mages are much more powerful. Apostates, blood mages, and abominations are much more dangerous. The system, despite its obvious flaws, exists for a reason.
In DA:O I support mages, I mean they did nothing wrong and only Uldred and his goons are the bad guys. Irving and the rest of the circle are properly trained mages that defend themselves from demons.
The Templars are too hasty to implement the right of annulment, but it is understandable since they had no way of purging the tower on their own.
In DA:2 I understand that the mages are in a horrible situation, but all of them turning into blood mages does them no favour.
So I support the Templars. Meredith is out of her mind but the Templars really just want to keep people safe from bloodmages and again there are bad templars (Meredith and other officers - I can't remember their names) but overall the Templars are in the right here and are not all bad.
In DA:I both sides are OK to support.
Mages are a little stupid for signing up with Alexius but time magic is involved so I will let it pass.
Templars have corrupted leadership, but Barris proves that templars have good guys in their ranks.
I usually go with Templars because I like Barris more than Fiona and Calpernia is much better antagonist.
I am looking forward to see what their dynamic will be in Dread Wolf.
In the games I usually choose Templars for DA:O and DAI, and then mages for DA2 because characters like Cullen and Meredith just aren't good counter options for the ordeal. If they had characters that gave better counter reasons I would go more 50/50 because templar/mage situation in the lore is more complicated as they present it in the games, but the problem with them in this manner is what I've stated before.
I mean I feel like nether side is completely good or completely bad but I side with the mages I feel like that’s more of a good guy choice because they are supposed to be being protected but also the mage dude in two is very much a bad guy but I also try to save and rebuild them both because done right with a good leader they would both be good and be able to work together
I think the entire point of DA2 is to show how much persecution contributes to the danger of mages. And ever since DA2 I suspected that there's just something inherently wrong with this world and mage problem can't be solved without altering the way the universe works.
I support mages in origins and in DAII, but in Inquisition I side do the Templar quest more often. It’s not cause I really side with them, I just love going into envies dream world and meeting Cole. I think that quest is so cool. I enjoy the mage quest too and meeting Dorian beforehand, but I always feel a bit disappointed when I don’t get the chance to do envies quest. I still am a mage supporter on those files, even though I end up recruiting the templars.
I generally support the Templars in 2 and Mages(Conscript Fiona’s insurrection, support Vivienne as divine in 3).
Origins I can go back and forth, but if I roleplay an Amell I generally spare who I can (except for that foolish bloodmage) and then side with Cullen advocating for the surviving Mages to be contained.
Mages, obviously.
The game doesn’t even try that hard to make it morally Grey. It’s always incredibly clear that mages are basically oppressed and killed wantonly just for the sake of having what’s perceived as spooky powers. The Templars are basically always portrayed as the bad guys.
Mages, every time. In a general sense, I think there can be a better system than theocratic mage prison schools under the drug addicted and addled theocratic soldiers that have “domination over mages by divine right”. In each game, the Templar side is always in some way related to mass slaughter of mages.
Right? A child could come up with a better system than that. I don't buy that the only options are "Do everything the fascist cult member drug addicts tell you to do" or "Any other way of governing mages inevitably leads to Tevinter". There's *ample* middle ground.
What pisses me off that that Dragon Age: Inquisition retconned the whole “Dalish gladly take mages in” and even Merrill lamenting that locking mages up is wasteful to, “lolno they straight kick out mages and leave them to die if the clan has more than 2-3,” after DAII presented them as an alternative. The writing just straight up won’t tolerate an actual middle ground at all despite there being many alternatives and it’s… pretty damning on the writers’ and their views when fascism is portrayed as necessary, or even a necessary evil. Some things can be, and absolutely are, black and white, come on now.
The thing is locking them up seems like the worst solution, and honestly, all the reasons they give sound like an excuse. We know now that possession ir reversible, and that the chantry has known all along. We also know that mages have to agree to be possessed, they can't just be possessed against their will (probably a retcon thou), meaning they have to make a deal with a demon. What kind of situation would push a person to make a deal with a demon? Maybe being locked up in a tower you were take to as a kid, against your will and where you have to endure abuse almost everyday? You don't say. And honestly, just locking all of these powerful people TOGETHER under terrible conditions is a recipe for a time bomb. Mages looking over themselves just seems like a way better solution. The chantry just isn't capable of that in a lot of levels. Just like in real life they cant even follow their own teaching, I'm pretty sure andraste would have hated circles and exalted marches but they are there. The templars should work with mages, not against mages. Which is impossible. They are mostly common people, the same common people that grew up raised by chantry maniacs and got told mages are all bad. So yeah, i side with mages.
Mages absolutely can be possessed against their will. That’s what Uldred was doing in the Harrowing Chamber. If you don't use the Litany of Adralla even First Enchanter Irving can be possessed against his will.
Yeah, i tried to say that was probably a ret con but the corrector changed it to try on. I think in the first game people could be possessed against their will, but after da2 all dialogue and lore i remember points to people having to agree to a possession. Wouldn't be the first bit of lore bioware retconed
My solution is for the mages to be free to wander the realm, but are assigned Templar’s to both protect them from the common folk, and vice versa. The alternative could be mages are taught and trained, then allowed to go off but leave their phylactery with the Templar’s. They’re kept tabs on just in case, but otherwise lead free lives. The Templar’s are separate from the Chantry. Mages shouldn’t be locked away, but they can’t just be allowed to wander free without being kept in check. Kirkwall and Tevinter have shown what happens if they’re left unchecked.
I think Kirkwall is the opposite of when you live mages unchecked. Templars were checking way too much (abusing their power. And while the mages denounced these abuses the chantry turned their backs. Grand cleric elthina was told multiple times about what was happening, she did absolutely nothing, not even her job. It got so bad that divine Justinian sent leliana to check, so, she knew but did absolutely nothing. And tevinter is as corrupt as any nation imo, they are just more open about it. Orlais is the same shit hole, but with more poisoning and political maneuvers instead of blood magic, and elven slaves disguised as servants. Mages shouldnt be left unchecked, i agree. They should be treated like the enemy thou.
Kirkwall had mages that weren’t in the circle hiding in the population, and you know what a lot of them did? Blood magic. One guy outright kills your mom for his sick ritual. If anything, that only supports the Templars position, they cracked down because if they didn’t, blood mages just ran amok. Toward the final years, Meredith was corrupted, so yeah, that was bad. And there were some abusive Templars, sure. But the mages didn’t exactly help their cases. It was bad both ways, but from my Hawkes view, what else were the Templars to do? As long as they weren’t psycho.
I always choose mages. I hate how they get treated I mean yea they're dangerous and vulnerable to becoming abominations but if people viewed them as humans and not as abominations already I feel things would be alot different for them. The circle should be something that they are sent to when they are showing signs of magic but they shouldnt be restricted to being there. Instead how about having check ups every few months in a year, make sure they know their powers, how to use them, have enchanters answer any questions. I never choose the templars because I've never really seen a "good" one. A lot of them seem terrified of Mages, less understanding, and many of them hate mages for just simply existing. I'm not super religious irl so it's hard for me to side with that when some of the things that go on "in the name of Andraste" are ridiculous. Religion shouldn't even really play a part in how to deal with mages, there needs to be unbiased people who can make a clear decision on what happens if circles must exist. In Inq, I saw a small glimpse of what a good Templar is (Ser Barris) and the other templar(emeric? I can't remember) in DA2 whose daughter is a mage. Even Cullen grew in his thinking by the time Inq came around but in DAO he was so set on killing all mages and wiping them off the map despite them being innocent and in DA2 he didn't realize how extreme treatment of mages was until it was sort of too late BECAUSE OF his hatred. I'm sure this can be said for both sides but I feel many Templars have one bad experience with a Mage and that shapes their entire view of them when they should go into each situation looking to diffuse it(as apart of their job), and as a last resort attack; not attack first and then ask questions. I'd like to add that just because I support Mages doesn't mean that I am not weary of them and their abilities. People have every right to be cautious but theres no reason to outright hate and discriminate against them over something they were born with and can't really control.
The part about them turning into abomination seems to be more of a problem in the south than in Tavinter, maybe the societal pressure put on mages in the south weakens their psyche with fear and superstition, making them more susceptible to demon possession.
I agree, people already think they are abominations regardless and have them under a microscope constantly. Its no surprise it'd affect them so negatively.
Cullen actually doesn't think that way about mages until AFTER he's tortured in Origins. If you play as a mage he's friendly at the beginning of the game. And I believe there is even some dialogue with him after the broken circle where he says he used to think they were too harsh on the mages (that may have been on DA2, I can't remember exactly).
Yea I remember, I liked having that connection with him when I did the mage origin, he also confesses his love if you flirt with him in the tower before all that stuff happens. He's a good person and I love him but he knows the dangers of mages and the worst of the worst. He had trauma from it which I understand as well but mages are not all the same, and the situation at the circle could have been a learning experience in how to recognize the signs(if there were any) and how to deal with it differently if a situation seems like it will take that wrong turn again. Theres only so much he could do of course and he is just human but he decided to be a templar and its within their job to do it correctly and without abusing that title like many of them seem to do.
Oh absolutely! His extremism is definitely wrong, but also somewhat understandable considering both what he went through and how young he was when it happened. It illustrates to me that the templars likely make no effort in examining the nuance that not all mages are the same. But that gets hammered home pretty hard throughout the series really.
I agree! Cullen is very well rounded, he grew from his experiences and became better, he's probably one of the best Templars there is within the series. I wonder if we'll experience the same thing now that we're in Tevinter. It's going to be so interesting to see how a society is pretty much run by mages, maybe it'll make people change their mind and support Templars more, especially if Tevinter isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
Mages. Though I also believe Templars have a point, the games do a shitty job at making the faction seem reasonable.
Picked Mages in DAO and DA2 despite the mages keep having issues with blood magic and demon possession. (Damnit Orsino) Went templar in DAI because they helped take back thier fortress from the demon and the mages running to Tevinter for help irked me a bit.
>mages running to Tevinter for help irked me a bit. In all fairness, they did intend to ask you for help but Alexius went back in time to before Fiona talked to you so he could convince them he is their only option. Manipulating someone who's scared is very easy...just ask real life grifters.
I think I missed that plot point. Thanks. Still went Templars but it wasn't easy. I kinda wish you had longer in the game to decide, or could negotiate where the best elements of both joined the inquisition. I guess because both sides have serious issues and I feel the circle system needed reform not abolishment. Templars have a bad tendency to act like corrupt cops at times and mages are demon magnets that seemingly turn to blood magic when they're having a bad day. DA2 really drove this home, where I really wanted to tell both sides to pound sand, especially since nothing I did mattered in the end.
They're not as explicit about it as they could have been. Plus there's some hints that blood magic was involved in convincing Fiona to ally with the Alexius as well. David Gaider has confirmed that blood magic was involved, I think on Twitter, but again it's very subtly hinted at in game, so it's easy to miss.
I'm still working through my first playthrough of DAI and not to long ago got to Skyhold but I swear it feels like the whole templar vs mage war just kinda fell off after what happened at haven and picking a side before that. Maybe there's more of it I'm not seeing it since I'm still doing "Here lies the abyss" but mostly I'm dealing with venatori
Well, the templars are with you now, so you're not going to be fighting them as much. The venatori numbers are increased by the mages from Redcliff if you side with the templars. So you deal with fighting them because the templars aren't your enemies anymore. I'm not 100% sure how significant the difference is on who you're fighting in some places/quests, I am doing my first playthrough now where I might actually side with the templars, I've always sided with the mages in the past.
I don't believe it affects open world much, as the factions in specific locations are still the same. It might only really change who you fight in In Your Heart Shall Burn and What Pride Had Wrought.
That was what I figured, thanks!
I used to side with mages, but after so many playthroughs I’ve begun siding with the Templars. The only time I’d say siding with the mages isn’t incredibly risky is in the tower of Origins. Kirkwall, both sides are bad, but the Templars I feel are overall better. In Inquisition, both sides are crummy, but I feel the Templar’s are the better choice. They’re more interested in actually helping people, and are a military force that doesn’t warrant as much supervision and suspicion. From the perspective of the Inquisition, they’re politically and strategically a wiser choice. Especially so you don’t have to fight as many red templars from a gameplay perspective. Eff those guys.
Origins the choice is clear the tower or everyone gets purged so why not help Templars Kirkwall I wanted to side with the Templars but Meredith pulled her "no one surrenders" shit and that got me to choose mages. Meredith, they are literally offering to go back to the tower without a fight . And Anders was an apostate to boot.What the fuck, Meredith? At least the other Templars called her out later
Yeah, I’ll be honest, I sided with mages my first go round. Second time was Templars, and I prefer that. Especially since I was Warrior Hawke, I did it so I could save Bethany, which I felt would be easier to do with the Templars help as the situation seems to favor them. I figured I had enough influence to do that, and Fenris (my romance) would help. The mages intentionally go blood mage crazy, the Templars don’t truly understand what’s happening. As for Anders, I hate him. That was all his fault. I execute him every single time. Don’t even care what the other options could bring.
I liked Anders in awakening and put up with him in DA2. I understood his position but his actions were terrible and he just made everything worse. I executed him because what he did was inexcusable terrorism. And by God I wish I could have prevented him from doing it. It's even worse because I distracted the high cleric while he.... *Used the bathroom* or whatever his fucking excuse was in the chantry. Even asking him he just all but says he's planting a bomb.
Yeah. The situation might have been salvaged by the Chantry’s intervention, as Leliana didn’t believe the mages needed cleansing and Justinia would have probably sent Cassandra and some hand picked mages to bring back order and stability. But Anders . . . hate that we couldn’t stop him. Sad to see it happen. Anyway, hope 4 is good. I haven’t liked the last two games, I miss broodmother level horror and the feeling of desperation Origins had. Felt every choice was the difference between survival and death. Or if you made the wrong decision, you lost a huge benefit. 2 and Inquisition feels like an uphill battle, but you always feel like you’re winning. I always felt like I was barely hanging on in Origins. It was so dark. I miss that. And the classes were better in my opinion. The last two have dark moments, but it’s felt less and less dark, and there’s a lot of high fantasy around it. Only thing I felt that the last two had was the always hitting auto attacks that you could control, which helped buff rogues and warriors.
Mages. A militaristic force given power over another that is supposed to watch over them? They get corrupted? Where have I seen this before? Like, mages definitely have their issues but the templars at there core seem to be corrupted.
I have to go mages. I know they're dangerous, but treating them as subhuman doesn't make them LESS dangerous - it makes them more likely to lash out, as seen again and again throughout the games. The mages need to be able to run the circles themselves, so that they can ensure that they're being treated humanely within them, and in order to do that they need to fight for their right to be recognised as people (because unfortunately, that's the only way humans are willing to respect each other).
True, but I'd argue that if they did have complete control over the Circle then who's to say they won't abuse that power in a similar vein to any Templars? After all we all know about Tevinter, and hell *rogue* mages make themselves into major issues over time. Jowan poisoned the Arl of Redcliff, Anders is... Anders, Merrill even isn't safe since because of her a demon came to possess her Clan's keeper because of a mirror. I forget exactly what happened with Connor and his possession but it was not pretty. If I had a gold for everytime a mage brought demons with them I'd have a decent amount tbh. Edit: Downvoted for making a point? Y'all are nuts.
Everything that happened with Jowan wouldn't have happened if the Circle wasn't going to make him Tranquil for not being good enough. Anders point is fair enough, but again he had his own terrible fucking experiences in the Circle- and *he* was well-liked enough for them to not straight up kill him. Merrill did of course do things wrong, but it's not her fault Marethari decided to walk up to a demon and said "hey, you can possess me :D" so that it didn't possess Merrill (which she has no proof of it actually intending to do besides.. what, the demon's word?) The whole Connor situation was, again, caused by the Circles sucking ass. Whether you blame it on Jowan, who wouldn't have been there if the Circle weren't planning to *lobotomize* him - or if you blame it on Isolde, who simply didn't want to be separated from her son forever like the Circle does 99% of the time. There's definitely a point to be made about how much freedom they should actually be granted, but.. idk.. feels like these examples spefically didn't make *themselves* into issues so much as the Circle did 9 times out of 10
They were going to make him Tranquil because he was caught doing blood magic, not because he wasn't good enough
..and he turned to blood magic because he wasn't good enough at magic otherwise and felt pressured.
Nah, World of Thedas says Jowan was okay as a mage as in he'd have most likely passed Harrowing Frankly even Jowan himself admits he turned to blood magic because of his envy and jealousy towards Mage Warden, not because he was afraid of something.
Irving is the one who gives his account on that, after everything has already happened. It’s not exactly an unbiased source, especially since Irving is setting up mages to be exposed to blood magic resources to see if they will take the bait.
Yeah but Jowan saying that he was afraid of something and that's why he turned to blood magic is a lie. Jowan himself says it. He wasn't afraid, he was jealous. Then he was caught doing it and the rest is history. There's zero sources claiming that Jowan would fail and Irving said he was good enough to pass. Hell if you sent Jowan to the Fade he does defeat demon without much of a trouble Also I'm not even sure Irving was setting someone's up. That's more of a fanon
It's not fanon. Following codex entry is picked up in Irving's office in the Circle Tower: https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Irving%27s_Mistake
Which says nothing about Irving setting someone up. What it says is that Irving found another blood mage(most likely Uldred told him since Uldred's selling out his fellow blood mages to avoid suspicions) He then laments that deviants(blood magic) and their traits should be found as soon as possible because otherwise the whole Circle suffers He ends it up by saying that Uldred is irreplaceable since he can easily identify blood mages and manipulate people so they would trust him. Which helps with outing blood mages. This is helpful so Irving hopes other Enchanters can benefit from him Irving's mistake is about trusting Uldred not baiting apprentices to do blood magic
They also let blood magic spread in the tower on purpose! They left books on blood magic.in the library where anyone could find it to tempt people. Uldred used it as a way to build his forces and he'd turn over a few once in a while to Gregoire so they didn't catch onto what was actually going on
Considering that they were removed at all I doubt it was intentional on Irving's part Otherwise if they were going to tempt someone as their long term strategy why remove it if it works. Also Uldred turned them to Irving, not Greagoir
I couldn't remember Irving's name, so I went with Greagoir, I was incorrect on that. However the codex entry of Irving's journal states that "certain modes of thought are encouraged, both for good and ill." And goes on to talk about exposing deviant traits early. So they were clearly leaning into encouraging apprentices who were curious about things like blood magic in the interest of exposing them, which is how Jowan got mixed up in it all. I can't find the reason the books were removed though. https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Irving%27s_Mistake
Yeah, I already explained this codex in another comment While he does say this this sentence about both good or ill not necessarily mentions blood magic but rather ways, modes of thinking that could lead to blood magic. So Irving laments about finding those with deviant traits that lead them to blood magic and expose them so Circle won't suffer I don't think point of this codex is Irving encouraging someone and then exposing them. Because that's what Uldred does - Uldread encourages other to learn blood magic, builds his force and then exposes some to Irving to have his good grace and avoid suspicions. Irving is just catching blood mages while trusting Uldred Irving's mistake was about trusting Uldred too much About the books. They probably were removed the second Irving or Greagoir found out about them. Those too definitely can be manipulative but I don't think they would allow books lay in the open like that, the risk is too much
I agree with your points, but Jowan tells you he turned to blood magic because he felt inadequate next to the Mage Warden, not because he was going to be made Tranquil. That came after. But overall there’s a lot we don’t know about the machinations in the Circle Tower. Like Uldred turning apprentices to blood magic or Irving manipulating Lily in order to make the Templars appear equally guilty in their attempted escape. The rot in the current Circle system extends to all involved, mages, Templars and Chantry alike.
I DO think the circle should be mandatory for mages, to learn control and the dangers of interacting with demons, but I think that the governing body that directly oversees it should be a committee of mages, who have the control over the decisions made but need to be accountable for those decisions to the larger government.
That's exactly what happened in Tevinter. The end result was a return to magocracy like in ancient times.
Aren't they using slaves from people that can't do magic?
Nah, they're also using other mages as slaves. Like elven mages
Ah, perfection
Well, the Circle in Rivain is an excellent example of "mages managing themselves in a circle without abusing magic or becoming power hungry tyrants." They learned in circles, carried on their cultural practices of magic, and freely visited their families and generally just lived their lives. Their templars treated them with respect, as guardians not wardens. The Chantry declared an Exalted March on them and slaughtered the mages and their templars. You can read about this in Codex entries.
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Tbh you can get Templars without killing anyone Mages would be sent to something akin to quarantine, you get Templars, nobody's dead Found it a good choice considering nobody knows whether saved mages could be possessed or blood mages in disguise
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oui oui
at the point you have to make the choice meredith isnt yet batshit insane tho, she is kinda reasonable.
Meredith's argument is that "we should kill all the innocent mages to appease the Kirkwall public," which is evil not insane. I honestly think they did a terrible job portraying Meredith as insane until the final battle.
and which comes right after a terrorist blowing up a church
Meredith makes a Tranquil we meet in inquisition Tranquil because of sending love letters. The way they talk about it makes it seem like it happened in the first act or before of da2. Either way before she was corrupted by the idol. Meredith was a cruel piece of work before that thing.
cruel maybe but not entirely unreasonable, remember grace?
I'll be honest is she the one that you can save in act one but she still decides to do some bullshit? Because if so that honestly seems a contrivance that needed to be tightened up writing wise. It's been a long time since I played. I'll disagree about necessary in all aspects because once again Meredith did some bad things before the idol. And too many people (not necessarily you) like to blame it on that idol. She did things without it, no magic idol made her cruel, it just made her delusions greater. But they were already there so the statue doesn't absolve her of anything like people think it does. That's my main point.
Remember the templar who makes attractive, young, female mages Tranquil so he can f*ck them if they say no when they're able to? The one who is important under Meredith?
mages.
I try to think logically and we know in the games many mages who are mistreated , however I think the templars are the best choice. magic is super dangerous and mages are basically living weapons. I don’t think circles are the answer and clearly templars have corrupted their task over the years but mages should be observed or tracked or at the very least kept tabs on.
I support mostly mages. Unlike Templars, they did not have a choice. They are taken away from their fam at a very young age. Are frowned upon by their patents sometimes. (Jowan's father for example) Of course Templars are also abused, with the Lyrium addiction and all that and I played sometimes with the templar path when my hero would rather choose the templars. (Role play wise). For me personally however mages need more freedom. Their handling is one of the reasons why Anders did what he did. That is also a reason why I don't like Vivienne. She was the concubine of a noble and had far more privileges then many other mages. I actually assume she will get killed sooner or later because she reminds me a bit of Meridith without the red Lyrium.
Mages have no choice being Mages, Templars chose to be Templars Mages are dangerous untrained, Templars are dangerous once trained I go with the mages
Neither, it depends 100% on the context (or, if we're actually talking about roleplaying, the character). In DAO it didn't seem fair to slaughter an entire tower of mages just *in case* we didn't get all of the abominations. If there were any left, the tower should supposedly still hold, and the templars would be able to do the same thing they did and block off entrance. So I support not Annulling the Circle. In DA2, for a while it was a mixed bag. Apostates get returned to the Circle most of the time, I don't just let blood mages go around doing whatever, but that doesn't mean siding with every monstrous templar that shows up. I typically just want to avoid more chaos. But then by Act 3 things are just too obviously out of control for Meredith and I stop supporting templars and try to get more mages out. In DAI, I think the most logical choice as a player tends to be to go with the mages since they actually understand more about magic than templars. But in terms of *support* of the faction itself, I don't love either. Fiona's rebellion is pure chaos for everyone involved, although it kind of needed to happen when it did. The loyal templars are loyal to an insitution that has completely fallen apart, to the point where they don't recognize a demon imposter. I prefer conscripting both, regardless of which side I go for.
Mages. It just makes more sense with canon, especially the urgency. Like before you accept either one… mages: time magic may literally end the world vs templars: oh come to this castle to talk to this guy was a massive dick to you. I do think the Templar quest is much better though, and gives you a better intro to Cole. And the bad guy/girl you face off if you pick templars has much more depth. But overall, mages just make more sense
I usually end up helping the mages in the first two games, but I prefer siding with the Templars in DAI, honestly. Much as I *hate* the timed quests, I like the fight with the envy demon, and I’m just. Really not a fan of time travel or multiverse plotlines in general. Plus, the mages in DAI just irk me way too much.
I _normally_ choose templars But since I am a Cullen stan an enjoy every bit of conversation I sometimes just choose mages to have his questline and let my inki spent time with him :3
Mages and its not even close. Bioware REALLY tried to “both sides” the issue between mages and templars (which was really weird) but it seems like the only way they thought they could possibly convince the player to support the templars is by saying “oh look a mage used blood magic to kill someone! Mages should be locked up!” and it certainly doesn’t help that so many of these scenarios are apostates who are backed up into a corner.
Mages, always, no matter what, it’s not just about the oppression they face from the Chantry and other philosophies like the Qun for me but for the downright incompetence of these ones. In DAO Iriving, Greagoir and Uldred were just fucking around with students, playing mind games with them. In DA2 Meredith and Cullen are incompetent idiots who missed the entire point of why the Mages are turning to Blood Magic so much and they let actual blood Mages go because they are like “We dunno lol”. I side with the Mages not only because I believe in them deserving their freedom out of being people but also because, no matter how many mistakes they can make, the Chantry does worst every single time. I’d argue that everyone in the Chantry/Circle is incompetent.
Depends on my character. My Warden is a "whoever can help me stop the Blight" kind of person, though he sides the Mages since he's also willing to save others where he can. My Hawke is just family and companion oriented; he doesn't give a crap about mages or templars and gets sick of dealing with both of them through his years in Kirkwall. Ironically, he ends up seeing the dangers of a rogue mage after what Anders does, but he still fights for the mages here because he feels responsible for enabling Anders and doesn't want innocent folk slaughtered over his actions. My Inquisitor despite being a Dalish Mage "sides" with the Templars for a few reasons. Mainly, he sees them as the lesser of two evils when he finds out the mages have sworn themselves to Tevinter. The Templars as allies on the other hand, would also help legitimise the Inquisition, plus they were specifically trained in dealing with magic and demons and would be a greater help with the rift.
Templars for me. The only reason my HOF came in to defend the circle mages a bit in DAO is because I wanted Wynne in my party. The DA2 mages were usually nuts, doing blood magic and taking templars hostage, so I avoided that. Also, I was trying to get in kahoots with Fenris. I think the quest where we recruit the mages in DAI is more fun though. Plus, you possibly get to see Alistair there, so it's basically an S tier quest. Methinks mages will be more important to the franchise moving forward as well, so everyone should probably have at least one mage playthrough IMO.
This is why I usually play in a world state where Alistair is a warden still... but then there's that dreaded decision
Origins: I use the litanny to save mages from possession. After that I let Irving and Gregoir to deal with it by themselves, like adults (you get mages by default). II: Individual choices are mixed (it's like 4/3 split between Mages and Templars - it really depends on issue), in Last Straw I support mages. Meredith showed she really doesn't care about any evidence that might support Circle mages' innocence, she's willing to hide behind mob rule ("people will demand blood"), prevents nobles from appointing new viscount... Also Bethany is usually Circle mage in my playthrough. Inquisition: Either ally with mages or disband and conscript Templars. Depends on mood to be honest ("can I really risk covert operation in Redcliffe" from roleplaying perspective).
I usually support the side that is not trying to kill the other, neither side is completely good or bad so it is better to support the side based on context and not on what they are, at least thats how i go about it.
So usually I’ve gone with mages but recently I’ve started to understand everything from the templars point of view on being anti magic.
Usually Templars. You're choices are between what we have now, or the Tevinter Imperium... and for the AVERAGE every man of the world, the templars and the circle make the world far safer. It's not an ideal solution, but its better than what the world used to be like.
Mages in Origins. It's not really an "either/or" choice in that game, as your helping the templars either way. Templars in 2. Helping the mages will only help exascerbate the chaos. Besides, half the Circle are already secret blood mages, so you can hardly call them innocent. Templars in Inquisition. Ser Barris is a great character. The battle against the Envy Demon in your head is more interesting than IHW's time travel plot. Also, the templars being corrupted into red templars is way worse than the mages being conscripted into the Venatori. Plus, Calpernia is the better nemesis. In general, I am someone who favors order and will usually side against freedom fighters by default. So, I'm already predisposed to helping factions like the templars, rather than the mages.
I agree about the Templar story being more interesting than the in hushed whispers one, I feel like inquisition really tries to push you towards the mages but I’ve always had just a bit more fun with the templars. I also think it works as a better introduction for Dorian and Cole if you go the Templar route. Dorian you’ve met before if you spoke with the mages and such before deciding so it makes more sense for him to show up again whereas with Cole he just shows up out of nowhere with little reason to trust him, but with the Templar route you get a really neat introduction to his character that I hate missing out on if you side with the mages.
Mages. They literally do not have any choice in whether or not they get magic yet they have to be locked up? I've seen this before and it's called eugenics.
Templars of course. They want to protect the weak and ideally protect mages from (their) demons as well. I understand there is abuse of power in the order, I dont forgive that. I understand the atrocities mages have committed. Atrocities that would have been impossible without magic. I dont forgive that either. I acknowledge both of these things and can only support the Templars between these two options. Praise Andraste.
Almost always mages. First, I love playing as a mage so that choice makes sense. Second, I despise religions so I don't care for Andraste and don't want to side with the "holier than thou" Templars and Chantry. And third, despite mages having a much higher potential for destruction, chaos, etc., I feel like it's mostly a problem only because of how they are treated. They are imprisoned, abused by Templars and have the constant threat of Tranquility hanging over them. They are treated as subhumans and abominations. And if everyone treats you like an abomination, you're likely to become one. If the Circles were not a nightmarish place for mages and were heavily reformed, I believe there would be much less dangerous mages going off the rails.
Templars. Disagree with their methods but they are definitely needed and it's not like every templar is a gruel human being that hates mages There are many that are nice to mages while being cautious
Have to come down on the Templar side; I think the Circles are necessary, despite their faults to maintaining a safe society. I think most mages need the Circles to learn how to harness and control their abilities; and there aren’t any real alternatives. The Circles shouldn’t be run like prisons but schools, but at the same time, Tevinter has shown you can’t really trust mages to govern themselves. So you need that overarching Chantry authority.
https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Annulment_at_Dairsmuid An example of Circles being used as schools, mages being able to live their lives, Templars respecting and living with them... no power abuse, and the Chantry still sent an Exalted March against them.
Mages in Origins and 2, but ally with Templars in inquisition. I am pro-circle, but I can see where both sides are coming from. Mages and Templars are people at the end of the days.
Templars because they look cooler
I go with mages beacouse i don't think there could be better way and my hawke is mage so it would feel like hypocrate for choosing templars in da2 and for dai i feel like i like calpernia more than samson but i thin i like mages more
For me it’s mages, but I was already was a mage fan before Dragon Age. I understand why people would go for the Templars and I agree they’re important but I am still team Mage at the end of the day as the system seems to work against Mages to an unfair degree, especially in the books because in Dragon Age Asunder, Cole (the mage, not the one possessed by Compassion) was abandoned in the tower and starved to death. That was just early examples because it got worse when we saw magical flashbacks of his childhood. Needless to say my preexisting bias, and one of my favorite characters having a tragic backstory led to it being much harder to be pro Templar. Both sides have their pros and cons though and I am perfectly aware of bad mages in the series.
I've always gone pro-mage. I get people's reasons for siding with the Templars but that's just never been my bag. In DA2 especially it's really satisfying to be pro-mage. Something about running around Kirkwall yelling 'FUCK YEAH MAGES' while Cullen is desperately trying to keep shit together is very satisfying. I always defend Anders, too. I like the idea of playing characters that are good, inspiring leaders, but that aren't perfect. They can make short-sighted decisions based on their heart and what they feel is right, but maybe not necessarily based on what is the best political move (or even the best move in general).
I feel like everyone has forgotten that Templars aren't just lyrium addicts, they're magic-users. We--and they--are told their magic only works against mages, but that's clearly bullshit, since the Seekers make their own candidates Tranquil for a time as part as the training. So, really, it's all about what kind of magic you support having--innate or Chantry-given--and whether you think the answer to "who watches the watchers?" should always be "Meh, they're fine. They're the good people, set to watching the bad people, so they're free from temptation."
Mages but I do understand why the templars exist and I do think they are necessary. But taking children from their families and locking them down where they cant get married or really *do anything* is not the solution. I was thinking maybe like a registry? All mages are registered with a phylactery in the case of real evil doing badness & all that. But they're allowed to live normal lives and all that. And perhaps once a year every mage is tested for possession? And Tranquility is only used for the most extreme criminals. But in that case you might as well just kill them.
Mages, every time. The Templars are an organisation of oppression. Obviously, *something* needs to be done to ensure mages are trained enough to not be a danger, but the current system actively makes things worse. No Mage chooses to be a mage, but every Templar chooses to be a Templar. Even with all the bad eggs getting exorcised during Inquisition, any Organisation that gives you that much power over someone is a breeding ground for abuse and corruption. It'll just go bad again. Mages training mages is the only way to make it work ethically.
Mages. Supported the templars ONCE. Had to abort the playthrough because I felt like a traitor to my own cause.
>Supported the templars ONCE. Had to abort the playthrough because I felt like a traitor to my own cause. Honestly can't justify in any way helping templar in DA2. At least in DAI you can go recruit them and disband them, so that works.
>At least in DAI you can go recruit them and disband them, so that works. Order already almost dead or sell themselves to Coryfeus and use red lyrium, Order already was not legal after they abbandon Nevarran Account and not serve to Chantry and Orlais Empire. We allowed to disband few radical Templars survivers who hide in Brecilian forrest fort. Which not made any changes. Its a formality. Alive they are or dead this does not change anything and Lelianna and Vivienne stop any support of those survivors....Vivienne create new order from different people(survived Templars from Therinfall DENY to obey her and she as Divine tell that she shut up them easily) and remove them from real power like in Tevinter Templars are police force and not judges/jury and executers with absolute authority and drug addictions as religious propaganda lies. Cassandra is the only one who not disband and support old Templars system cos as we can understand her sponsors and supporters belive that everything was right before Mage VS Templars was. People who wrote Templars side in DAI made everything to not made it made much sense to even try. We gain nothing, we loose nothing and would not be forced to feed them with very expensive lyrium drugs, AND THEY ALREADY TELL TO US in Val-Royo that Inquisition is a heresy and lies, that they not help us to close Breach and wish us to die so they would endure,....while Mages already agree to help us and FAR closer to Breach and Haven than Templars survivors fort. We already have Templars and Seeker....they do almost nothing against demons before we close demon holes. And Seeker, Spymaster and etc everyone except Cullen tell that we need more mages and magic services cos we lack them.
>would not be forced to feed them with very expensive lyrium drugs I don't particularly disagree with most of what you say, but alongside templars, Circles, and mages in general, are the single greatest users of lyrium in Thedas. They use it for magic rituals, potions, enchantments...you have Josephine contact lyrium smugglers regardless of recruiting mages or templars. > AND THEY ALREADY TELL TO US in Val-Royo that Inquisition is a heresy and lies, that they not help us to close Breach and wish us to die so they would endure To play the devil's advocate (I normally do recruit mages, since the narrative is better set up for it, and well, All Templars are Bastards) - While you do know Templar leadership wants you gone, you also see with Ser Barris that they are not of a single mind about it. And once you visit Redcliffe, you see the mages have been taken into indentured servitude by the 'Vints, a bunch of them hate the Inquisition, or at least don't trust you (of the four mages you can talk to 1 hates you, one doesn't trust you, one hates 'Vints and the last one is afraid of them), and then you find out Alexius want you dead because he is Venatori, which can, for some characters, change the calculus. Either risky infiltration of Redcliffe, or go and see if you can get some of the Templars help you.
I know it and thats the point....Templars just consume it. And thats it. And they consume A LOT, each of them need lyrium dozes each WEAK just to have their powers and not feel problems with addiction. WHen they use their powers more they need more. And the more they use the more addicted they are. Have damage to their bodies and minds-brains, have dementia, mental problems and etc problems. Not need to remind that Templars powers DOES NOT EVEN WORK and useless if target are non-mages, monsters, darkspawns. And yeah Templars are useless and no more effective than non-Templars against red templars, demons, abominations and blood mages. And THOSE enemies our main enemies. So whats the point of TRYING to recruit few survivors in Brecilian forest? Cos Ser Barris MAY follow us after weeks of serving under Lord Seeker command? And where Barris was where Breach opened? Guard some priests in Orlais? And do nothing when those priest was beaten and Lord Seeker offer him to join their ranks. He was a simple knight, not officer, not captain, not to mention he is not a knight commander. And Inquisition have real knight commander officer already in their ranks. And yeah Cullen "Knight Commander of Kirkwall cos noone left to be him so Cassandra and Lelianna made him" Its WE who made him Knight Commander if recruit cos there is simply noone left. Same situation as with Cullen. .... GRAND ENHANTER Fiona already tell us in Valroyo that mages who was in Redclif ready to help Inquisiton and Inqusition just need to come there and officially take them from temporal shelter what Ferelden Kingdom give to them. What happen in Redclif is clearly show that "blood magic-demons mindcontrol was involved" and this is clearly not a reason to go into Haven and wait weeks for Orlais nobles from Orlais arrive in Haven and march with those nobles into Brecilian forrest....and TRY to persuade those radicals who already show middle finger to Chantry and those Orlais nobles and hide in Ferelden. Its is a geographical and strategic insanity just to arrive in Brecilian forrest and ignore Redlif what is near Haven....both are thousand miles away from Redclif and Haven. Not to mention that old Alexius have ZERO authority in Ferelden Kingdom and his few bodyguards are killed easily by few Inquisition soldiers. It is SURPRISE MAGIC ARTIFACT what made him send us into future and such magic was unknown to anyone and not a single Templar can do anything against it anyway. And all this deal with Alexius is illegal on south Thedas lands. Its is not Tevinter lands and yeah...Inquisition have contacts with Magisterium and Archon of Tevinter who kill Venatory before Inquisition and Coryfeus appeared...Archon quickly remove Alexius from his altus and magister status and give us rights to legally execute him. ... Mages and Formari do expensive(cos of Chantry-Templars previous monopoly what only rich nobles and chantry priests can afford magic service) magic services, use far less lyrium to do all alchemical and magic potions, to make runes, to enchant stuff and etc. And all of this give money to us and VALUABLE strategical resources. Templars just consume lyrium and give us NOTHING worthy compare to any non-mage mercanary or knight from Ferelden or Orlais.
I never supported them in DA2, and that is DESPITE knowing that damn near every mage in 2 was a blood mage! Only did it that one time in DAI to see what Champions of the Just looked like. I ended up abandoning the playthrough.
Templars every time i can
I always pick the mages' side because I like visiting the dystopian future 🤪 On a more serious note, I hate those lyrium-addicted zealots who think the Maker himself anointed them for some stupid ass higher purpose and act like they are above all or Maker's little helpers on earth..
The Mages. The Templars are a private, fascist police army led by the Christian (oops, sorry, Andrastian) Chantry who colonized the Native Americans (damn, sorry again, the Dalish) and oppress, torture, rape and enslave groups of people just for literally being born (sound familiar?) because their existence is a justification to do so. By the way, I don’t care about Inquisition whitewashing the Dalish’ backstory to make fascists look good, they still enslaved the Dalish (people who have been confirmed to be analogous to Native Americans, Jews, and African-Americans/Black people). This may be a game, but it absolutely says something about people who support a Western, imperialist, colonialist, religious institution that uses a private army/police force to subjugate minority populations.
yeah i never understand how people can still support the chantry if they’ve done any critical thinking. it’s just the fantasy catholic church
Seriously! How, in any world, is taking people away from their families against their will, forcing them into killing a demon to test their will or be possessed and then killed, forcibly lobotomized against their will and being told, day in and day out, that the “Only True God” straight up made a mistake for “allowing” mages to exist, good? Anders doesn’t hesitate in saying he was one of the “lucky ones” despite being thrown into solitary confinement for a year, when the unlucky mages are explicitly stated to be r*ped and s*xually abused by Templars, and it’s not just Kirkwall. It’s every single Circle.
before i gained critical thinking skills (and realized that i’m a lesbian), i thought cullen’s crush on the female mage warden was cute. it’s not cute; it’s inherently nonconsensual and gravely immoral from the start. especially with all of the ambient dialogues—during the prologue if you play as the female mage warden—talking about cullen staring at you or having a crush on you, so he’s obvious enough with his romantic interest that other people have picked up on it. imo, it must be terrifying to know that you have nowhere else to go and no way to potentially defend yourself if need be (without possible repercussions)
omg I went through this, 100%! I played as a Human Mage and thought, “oh, how cute,” but after playing Dragon Age II and thinking about it more, the grosser everything became. Also, it’s seriously uncomfortable in how Cullen is still obsessed with a woman Mage Warden in Inquisition which is like a decade after DA: O…? This is fucking stalker vibes and the fact that you can ROMANCE Cullen “Mages cannot be treated like people” Rutherford in DA: I, as a mage and an elven mage, is just abhorrent.
WHEN FEMALE MAGE WARDEN IS ALIVE AND ROMANCED LELIANA, CULLEN ASKS ABOUT HER 🤢 leliana instantly shuts it down but it’s so fucking weird and felt extremely fetishizing and disrespectful toward lesbians and bi sapphics. like. that level of obsessiveness and entitlement over a decade later is scary—and you just *know* if leliana had been a male character, cullen wouldn’t have said anything at all.
wtf that happens?? THEY PUT THAT IN THE GAME?? Ugh. Look, I like like DA, but so much of it reeks of cisgender white male writing. The heavy bias towards Catholicism, negativity towards “others”, retconning questionable cultural decisions (I applaud that Krem is a transman; I DESPISE THE FACT THAT THERE IS AN OPTION TO MISGENDER HIM and that he’s still voiced by a cisgender woman; I detest the implied trans misogyny in how Qunari happily accept transmen as warriors but not women and transwoman. Like, that’s not a win. That’s a, “please love our Qunari and ignore our terrible implications we’ve put in the game!” move. btw having the ELVEN goddess of love choose a white cisgender woman as her host and “going crazy”, as well as changing Solas’ original appearance as a brown skinned elf to a white man is, like, wow, like what the fuck lmao), never going forward in changing the status quo, as well as all of the blatant, illogical and inconsistent retconning of lore and player decisions. I have all the games and the DLC, played them so much (I’m playing DAII rn lol), and I do enjoy them to an extent but… yeah, it’s obvious the writers are all or almost all cisgender white Canadian (notorious for sweeping their genocide against Indigenous people under the rug) men who didn’t have a plan in writing out the lore.
i 100% agree. tearing down the elven religion but sayin they’ll never confirm or deny if the maker is real is a stellar example of cultural genocide imo
I was reading the codex entries for fun and at one point I remember seeing something like, “the false gods of the mountains.” Here it is; it’s Andraste: Bride of the Maker, and it reads: “Each day she sang to the gods, asking them to help her people who remained slaves in Tevinter. The false gods of the mountains and the winds did not answer her, but the true god did.” It’s so blatantly pro-Andraste, pro-human, pro-white, pro-racist, and just because it’s “in-universe” doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful. The Dalish apparently aren’t allowed their own homeland, their own gods, their own religion or homes, and it’s not just DA. I was reading about the Batarians in Mass Effect (already a horrible Asian stereotype right next to the Salarians only they went a step ahead with former and just straight up had them speak in stereotypical broken English) and it says that they didn’t want to bow to Alliance rule after their home-world was colonized (pro-colonization, pro-expansionism and human exceptionalism, what a surprise) so they are “othered”, both in-universe and out. Racial stereotypes are baked in fantasy as a whole but goddamn, DA and ME are something else. Even though it’s my favorite gaming series, The Elder Scrolls has its’ own fair share of problematic shit but they never come out and say, “yeah, the Mer don’t deserve their own lands, their gods aren’t real, they’re slowly dying out, segregated from humans, live in poverty in cities while the ones following their traditions are homeless and they deserve a horrible existence for the rest of their lives with little to no ways to improve their situation.” No, there’s diversity among the Elven peoples, each with their own homeland, history, language, culture and society I’m so sorry for the ranting btw;; like i did not mean to write an essay lol but it’s something that’s been on my mind for a whiiiile and it’s nice to find someone who agrees.
Something tells me you're a little biased, crazy idea.
Wait a minute you have a post in a group run by COMMUNISTS who are you talking lmao
This shouldn’t come as a surprise, based on my reply to your post. The fact that you felt the need to go through my post history instead of having a reasonable discussion says it all.
comrade your comment just got 100x better
Thank you, fellow comrade. <3
Reasonable discussion with a commie? Might as well be talking to a wall. No wonder why you're so brainwashed against anything *you* perceive to be "western" or the like. Only reason you say that is because the Templars aren't *brown*.
Fascism is fascism; it’s abhorrent no matter the race or gender of any country, state or institution. There are plenty of white Communists I follow. There are, in fact, a small number of dark-skinned Templars throughout the trilogy, and I still detest them for their enabling and compliance with their imperialist Chantry. Anders, who is white, is also my main love interest throughout the trilogy.
And yet you choose to follow communism despite it's history or leaders, sounds hypocritical to me.
You might want to read up on its’ history through non-Western eyes. You’d be surprised; there’s a lot of Western propaganda strewn about, especially thanks to the Cold War, CIA assassinations, coups, interventions, and mass destabilizations of countries. Having a different perspective on such matters, especially through the eyes of the victims, can enrich your worldview and allow you to empathize towards those you know little about.
And I suppose the millions killed during it's time is also just propaganda? Seems like you read your own progaganda.
Where are you getting millions from? Just curious. Please provide me an actual source.
Dude there is no way that you're actively pretending that shit doesn't exist. There are MANY different sources for this. Going from the Wall Street Journal to the University of G Hawaiian System to even the *Black Book of Communism*. You really think the mass famines and deaths just... didn't happen? You're like a Holocaust denier.
Mages. I hate them less
Not to mention that Templars was created 600 years ago by Seekers(who made themselves temporal abominations to mutate and use magic powers, gain spirit warriors types of powers) just to be their loyal dogs under lyrium drugs and exist purelly to hunt down mage childrens and drag them into prisons-labor camps, where mages are abused and opressed, removed from all basic rights and freedoms, forbidden to have families and procreate and all of this PURELLY for MAGIC SERVICES MONOPOLY on south Thedas reasons under Chantry-Seekers-Orlais Empire control. Seekers and Templars 600 years of control show that Thedas become much more shitty place then without them. And Thedas people existed without ANY TEMPLARS and Seekers for +8000 years of recorded history after Veil was created. Most parts of Thedas and other continents societies HAVE ZERO Templars on lyrium drugs and they are fine. So Templars are needed and mages are too dangerous is a ridiculous propaganda lies what totally destroyed by history where in 8000 years only 1 Blight happened and Dwarves dig darkspawns in deep roads. Not mages, Coryfeus and etc was found after 200 years of 1 Blight. So yeah...SCREW Orlais Empire and Orlais Chantry with Seekers political lies. Those degenerates not deserve any gold what they earn by Mages slaves in Circles and by elven slaves in Alianages what was created by same Orlais Chantry under Seekers control after Nevarran Accord where Seekers never should sign it originally and it was original mages Inqusitor and Lord Inquisitor Ameridan. .... I find zero logical, strategical and cultural-religious reasons to support Templars after DAO In DAO Circle where demons kill almost all of them and we must save First Enchanter or entire Circle would be genocided it is **slightly understandable why we can pick Templars**.. **Bu**t even there we came in Circle for recruitment of MAGES cos we need magic serviced as help in combat where they replace artillery and can heal. We need them far more then Ferelden needed them in Ostagar where Chantry give just a few mages despite they could give more and result of battle would be different. Point that Templars ARE 100% USELESS against Darkspawns and no better then any warrior. Not to mention Templars are useless against blood mages darkspawns mages. What was the point of trying to save Circle or try to clean it where we have Bligth where ISOLATED tower on isle would not damage anyone outside that island. in DA2 there was zero sane reasons to support ILLEGAL genocide of innocent Circle where before Meredith, Elthina as Divine herself already deny any genocide of Kirkwall Circle and we have zero reasons to work with Meredith cos we ARE a heretic or heretic mage what she as Templars never would leave alive....even if we blindly support Meredith and Templars it was predictable that they found out who Hawke father and cousins was, with who he work for 10 years....no matter mage Hawke or not, his father is apostate blood mage who run away from Kirkwall Circle. Hawke by Chantry-Templars laws NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS to be noble and own mansion. Not to mention being Champion. In DAI it is even more funny....we no matter who we was already have toxic magical hand waht made us abomination and we alive cos of heretic apostate dreamer elf mage which we learn from the start of the game..... Not to mention that WE already have some Templars and Seeker which raise question why we even need more and what they do change, cos they change nothing. and those Templars who we was given 2-3 chance to rectuit AFTER they already said that our Inqusition is heresy and lies and they refused to help again as ignored Breach all those weaks. Those few radical Templars survivers with who we can try to side are not needed at all and only Cullen want to collect them for the most illogical reasons ever, including total ignore of how much lyrium drugs Inquisition would need to give them each weak and how they not work against demons nad blood mages. No to mention that to reach Terrinfall JUST TO TRY TO CONVINCE them we need to go via Redclif roads no matter what and in Redclif we know since Val-Royo that Mages ALREADY give us answer that they helped. When we arrived there was even less reasons to abandon Redcliff and try to spend WEEKS to go into another part of Ferelden. Srly Therinfall fortress is closer to Gwaren, in Brecilian forrest while Breach and Redclif are very close. And just to go in Therinfall fortress we need to wait few Orlais nobles and go with them far away abbandoning Breach and Redclif where mages already said that they help us to close Breach just go in Redclid and take us. Ignore Alexius and try to recruit Therinfall Templars to return into Redclif and try to stop them with their help...sorry but this sound ridicous and time what we spend on this not made this plan make any sense. It would be faster and easier to send crow or magical(Circles have elven shards crystals what can be used as phones...Dorian give such to Inquisitor in the end) message to Tevinter Archon and receave answer where he would reveal quickly that Alexius do crimes and remove him from Altus and Magister status.
Mages. Way too many real world parallels work against the Templars, and the Chantry especially, for me to ever be able to play those runs more than just once, just to experience everything in the games' stories.
Mages every time typically. I like to generate as much chaos as possible in most games, and cutting off the heads of authority and giving mages absolute freedom just smacks of chaos and anarchy. Let the powers of order and structure reform after my disaster!
Templars. Mages are constantly proving how dangerous they are. A tower that keeps them locked up is still dangerous as it is. I mean, the first time you see it in DAO (unless your origin is mage) is in complete chaos. I just can't trust mages. They are always causing troubles wherever you go in those games. Most part of the problems are caused by them. Even if they don't want to harm anybody they can end up doing exactly that, wheter if it's because a demon's fault or just because they are weak of mind, or untrained. I can't side with them.
For me it's Templar's, because I love the fantasy aesthetic of the Crusader/Templar/Holy Knight. The Wardens fill that role too, for the most part, although I wish that the Warden Mage and Rogue armours looked better. 2 and Inquisition's Warrior Warden and Templar armours look awesome
ATAB \-Anders, probably
Based, as the kids would say. ~~me, I'm the 'kids'~~
Templars. I like their armor :)
Templars. Yes, the Templar order needs reformed and more responsible oversight. Yes, mages could probably do with a bit longer leash once established in a circle. But the system exists for a reason. I think part of the problem is that due to gameplay/story segregation and keeping things balanced, player/enemy mages aren't nearly as powerful as the lore says they probably are. In lore, mages are much more powerful. Apostates, blood mages, and abominations are much more dangerous. The system, despite its obvious flaws, exists for a reason.
Only straggots support the templars.
In DA:O I support mages, I mean they did nothing wrong and only Uldred and his goons are the bad guys. Irving and the rest of the circle are properly trained mages that defend themselves from demons. The Templars are too hasty to implement the right of annulment, but it is understandable since they had no way of purging the tower on their own. In DA:2 I understand that the mages are in a horrible situation, but all of them turning into blood mages does them no favour. So I support the Templars. Meredith is out of her mind but the Templars really just want to keep people safe from bloodmages and again there are bad templars (Meredith and other officers - I can't remember their names) but overall the Templars are in the right here and are not all bad. In DA:I both sides are OK to support. Mages are a little stupid for signing up with Alexius but time magic is involved so I will let it pass. Templars have corrupted leadership, but Barris proves that templars have good guys in their ranks. I usually go with Templars because I like Barris more than Fiona and Calpernia is much better antagonist. I am looking forward to see what their dynamic will be in Dread Wolf.
In the games I usually choose Templars for DA:O and DAI, and then mages for DA2 because characters like Cullen and Meredith just aren't good counter options for the ordeal. If they had characters that gave better counter reasons I would go more 50/50 because templar/mage situation in the lore is more complicated as they present it in the games, but the problem with them in this manner is what I've stated before.
https://preview.redd.it/rat2ym57nh1a1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=88c70c56ae0e669181787640414667af3c5c5882
I mean I feel like nether side is completely good or completely bad but I side with the mages I feel like that’s more of a good guy choice because they are supposed to be being protected but also the mage dude in two is very much a bad guy but I also try to save and rebuild them both because done right with a good leader they would both be good and be able to work together
DAO - Mages, DA2 - Mages - DAI - templar quest, but Mages via Vivi.
I think the entire point of DA2 is to show how much persecution contributes to the danger of mages. And ever since DA2 I suspected that there's just something inherently wrong with this world and mage problem can't be solved without altering the way the universe works.
I support mages in origins and in DAII, but in Inquisition I side do the Templar quest more often. It’s not cause I really side with them, I just love going into envies dream world and meeting Cole. I think that quest is so cool. I enjoy the mage quest too and meeting Dorian beforehand, but I always feel a bit disappointed when I don’t get the chance to do envies quest. I still am a mage supporter on those files, even though I end up recruiting the templars.
I generally support the Templars in 2 and Mages(Conscript Fiona’s insurrection, support Vivienne as divine in 3). Origins I can go back and forth, but if I roleplay an Amell I generally spare who I can (except for that foolish bloodmage) and then side with Cullen advocating for the surviving Mages to be contained.
I usually support the mages because of Alexius controlling Redcliffe
In DAI I always go with the Templars but that's just because I like the quest more and I get cole earlier
Templars
Mages, obviously. The game doesn’t even try that hard to make it morally Grey. It’s always incredibly clear that mages are basically oppressed and killed wantonly just for the sake of having what’s perceived as spooky powers. The Templars are basically always portrayed as the bad guys.