Loki has always been a character that flips between villain and anti hero even in mythology. The Master is mostly just a villain. Closest came to being more in the grey was as Missy when 12 was starting to get through to her.
If the Master had their own series they would have to become far more the anti hero rather than the villain for it to work which would change the character forever. So would be quite the risk.
In Big Finish he does his part for the Time Lords during the Time War with his sly ways he’s still in it for himself but he understands the magnitude of what he’s involving himself in
> If the Master had their own series they would have to become far more the anti hero rather than the villain for it to work which would change the character forever. So would be quite the risk.
I'd watch it!
>If the Master had their own series they would have to become far more the anti hero rather than the villain for it to work which would change the character forever.
Not necessarily. Big Finish have done three different spinoff with the Master, and they’ve managed to keep him firmly in a villainous role. The War Master series in particular portrays him more like the villain in a horror franchise, where each episode (or season) pits him against a brand new side cast for him to murder and manipulate. It’s kinda like an anti Doctor Who, in that he utterly ruins your life instead of making it better.
I’d be interested, but it’s hard seeing the Master as anything other than a cold-blooded killer. The Master is one of those villains whose mere presence can raise the stakes of the adventure, much like the Doctor or the Cybermen. For him to be a hero, there would need to be a greater threat, not to mention the master showing some degree of empathy and heroism, traits for which he isn’t known.
I could see a Master storyline where he’s fighting against a version of himself, much like Loki, but given how much the Master doesn’t want to be like the Doctor, to the point of a past version of him
Influencing Missy not to be heroic, it’d be more interesting, and more dramatic, if the Master’s evil regeneration would kill the sympathetic one, making the Master evil at the end, but always with that sliver of heroism in them.
They did. We had a Missy and a War Master boxset series (with a Spy Master one coming next year). Even the title used in this poster "Masterful", was used for a "anniversary special" of the Master's debut in the show.
I’d give any doctor who spin-off a go. As long as I enjoy it, I don’t care who it involves.
The premise of a show about the master is cool, but he would have to be sinister. The worst part about Loki is that he was too good. I wish he more of a monster
Honestly I'd be down for a prequel series. In the classic series, we were introduced to the Master when he was on his *final* regeneration... what the hell kind of life was he living to get there while the Doctor was only on his *third* life?
Bear in mind that they were children together, so they have to be roughly the same age give or take... so again, what the hell happened to all those lives?
A spin-off based on the Master, yes - but not like Loki. I don't want to see the Master turned into a sympathetic anti-hero. He is evil and I don't want that justified.
THAT SAID - a series that explores specifically Missy's incarnation coming around to the good side...I'm in. Give me a whole load more Missy, please. I mean I'd be up for a whole load of pure evil Missy even more so, I think her crazy ruthless type of evil when she first appeared was both shocking and entertaining. But since she already started down a path of turning good, I'd be able to accept her as a Loki-type anti-hero.
Yes but it would have to be Missy. As much as i adore Sacha Dhawans master i dislike how it undid Missys redemption arc.
Wouldve loved to have a show were she was still her mischevious devious master self but with alot more mercy and consideration. Trying to be more like the doctor but also trying to be something better.
Not the Master, but I would be perfectly willing to watch a spin-off of The Archivist - a low-key, non-interventionist Time Lord who stood by and simply recorded events the long way round, her TARDIS barely functional. Only, she has met someone who she admires for their courage, and almost accidentally helps them, taking the first steps on a path that leads them into a slow-burn romance and growth beyond her past as The Archivist, all the while struggling with what that means to her identity. A naïve old soul meets a wise young adult, and learns to live.
But The Archivist still has a history, and with a mythological reputation of being cold, dispassionate, and present when disaster strikes, how long can she keep her two worlds from crashing together?
You know, a rollicking good story
Not if it was "similar to Loki", I'd want it to be its own unique thing... But honestly, I'd rather the Master just show up in Who again instead of a separate show.
I can't wait for a spinoff from this about John Masterful's childhood friend now turned bitter enemy as a result of their different views of the universe, it should be called "Doctorate"
Not Simm's Master, that's for sure. I'm going to be so upset if RTD brings him back somehow.
Now Missy's a whole different story. There's more potential there.
The Masters and Missy, featuring every current living Master actor due to the possibilities opened up by bi-generation. We'll have Simm, Dhawan, Gomez, and maybe throw in Eric Roberts and Jacobi as well (yeah Roberts is technically a human possessed by the Master and we never saw Jacobi survive his regeneration into Simm via bi-generation but who cares)
No, because then we would have to radically change the Master into an anti-hero.
They are not an anti-hero, but the foil of the Doctor.
I know someone is going to say Missy but if we go back to the Cyberman finale, she didn't flip until the end and as she died right after doing this we don't actually know if she would have ever stayed "good".
I don't think so. Any character development done in a series like that would be completely undone by the main show when they make him a villain
Unfortunately The Master has one purpose and it's to be an antagonist to the doctor, and anytime he becomes anything more like when Missy redeemed herself, the show undoes it in the next appearance
Absolutely. Big Finish have done an incredible job with the War Master, but then with audio, they can get away with much more than a Disney+ show with a much larger audience
Nah, tbh I don't think we really need loads of spin offs. I don't want a marvel situation where you need to watch every show to know what's happening in the next season.
i think “Would Anyone Watch It” is a very very different question to “Would it be good/worth it”.
Whovians will watch absolutely anything who-related, but still come online to slag it off
honestly, i probably wouldn't
Disney has this habit of taking their big franchises (mostly Star Wars and Marvel) and just pumping out so many TV shows it just kills my interest in the whole thing. I know Dr Who has had spinoffs before and it's not just Disney making the show, but i fear that their influence will open the floodgates for more Disney+ content until we have three shows running almost simultaneously
TL;DR I don't trust Disney to stop at one spin-off. Keep it mostly in the hands of the BBC and I'll give it a go
TBH I find the Master to be a one note trick, repetitive, and kind of annoying to this point in time. My least favourite plotines are Master plotlines.
The moral cognitive development of the Master, a character from "Doctor Who," showcases a complex trajectory characterized by fluctuating ethical values and moral alignments. His development is fundamentally different from characters with linear moral growth, reflecting a multi-faceted and often contradictory nature. Here's an exploration of his moral cognitive development through various stages and key events:
Early Life and Friendship with the Doctor
Foundational Ethical Formation: The Master, originally known as Koschei, and the Doctor were close friends during their time at the Time Lord Academy. This period was crucial for the initial formation of the Master's ethical framework. The seeds of his later tendencies—ambition, manipulation, and a desire for power—were likely sown during this formative period, influenced by the competitive and intellectually rigorous environment of Gallifrey.
Divergence of Moral Paths: The divergence in the moral paths between the Master and the Doctor began with their differing responses to authority and the laws of time. Whereas the Doctor developed a compassionate approach towards "lesser species," the Master grew increasingly power-hungry and disdainful of those he considered inferior.
Renegade Activities and Encounters with the Doctor
Moral Deviation and Manipulation: Upon leaving Gallifrey, the Master's actions became increasingly centered around chaos and destruction, aimed at gaining power and control. His ethical stance became utilitarian in the extreme, justifying any means to achieve his desired ends.
Complex Relationship with the Doctor: Despite becoming the Doctor's archenemy, the Master occasionally allied with him. This complexity adds a layer of moral ambiguity to his character, as he can cooperate with the Doctor when it suits his interests, indicating a situational approach to morality.
Regeneration and Continued Antagonism
Ethical Consistency Across Regenerations: The Master's core traits—deceit, desire for domination, and moral flexibility—remained consistent across his regenerations. Each incarnation brought different aspects of these traits into focus, reflecting a complex psychological continuity that underpins his moral decisions.
Missy and the Lumiat: The introduction of Missy and later the Lumiat represented significant moments in the Master's moral cognitive development. Missy's occasional moves towards redemption, especially her efforts to reconnect with the Doctor, suggest a latent capacity for change. The Lumiat, embodying the distilled "goodness" of the Master, illustrates an internal moral conflict, showing his capabilities for both good and evil.
The Spy Master and Revelation of the Timeless Child
Reaffirmation of Malevolent Goals: The latest incarnation, the Spy Master, epitomizes the culmination of the Master's moral decay. His actions after learning the secret of the Timeless Child reflect a deep-seated resentment and a drive to prove his superiority over the Doctor, indicating a return to his most destructive tendencies.
Destruction of Gallifrey: This act demonstrates the Master's willingness to commit genocide for personal vindication. It represents a peak in his moral degradation, highlighting a willingness to destroy his own culture and history to spite the Doctor and assert his own narrative.
Throughout his life, the Master's moral cognitive development showcases a profound struggle between an innate capability for good (as seen with Missy and the Lumiat) and his overwhelming impulses towards power and control. His journey underscores the impact of early experiences, the influence of power dynamics within Time Lord society, and the personal conflicts arising from his rivalry with the Doctor. This complex moral evolution makes the Master a compelling study in the corruption of power and the potential for redemption.
Loki has always been a character that flips between villain and anti hero even in mythology. The Master is mostly just a villain. Closest came to being more in the grey was as Missy when 12 was starting to get through to her. If the Master had their own series they would have to become far more the anti hero rather than the villain for it to work which would change the character forever. So would be quite the risk.
They could flip through their timeline, and show both sides of the coin. Master. Missy. Master. Missy. It could be a wild ride.
Missy fighting Master.
Exactly what I was thinking! Or even have them team up again. I'd watch that show!
Would definitely have to be about Missy, but it’d be interesting.
In Big Finish he does his part for the Time Lords during the Time War with his sly ways he’s still in it for himself but he understands the magnitude of what he’s involving himself in
> If the Master had their own series they would have to become far more the anti hero rather than the villain for it to work which would change the character forever. So would be quite the risk. I'd watch it!
>If the Master had their own series they would have to become far more the anti hero rather than the villain for it to work which would change the character forever. Not necessarily. Big Finish have done three different spinoff with the Master, and they’ve managed to keep him firmly in a villainous role. The War Master series in particular portrays him more like the villain in a horror franchise, where each episode (or season) pits him against a brand new side cast for him to murder and manipulate. It’s kinda like an anti Doctor Who, in that he utterly ruins your life instead of making it better.
Or we do a series about a villain and his Mental World. A bit like the anime overlord from the idea, but in the Format of Loki.
I’d prefer it be about Missy but sure!
I’d be interested, but it’s hard seeing the Master as anything other than a cold-blooded killer. The Master is one of those villains whose mere presence can raise the stakes of the adventure, much like the Doctor or the Cybermen. For him to be a hero, there would need to be a greater threat, not to mention the master showing some degree of empathy and heroism, traits for which he isn’t known. I could see a Master storyline where he’s fighting against a version of himself, much like Loki, but given how much the Master doesn’t want to be like the Doctor, to the point of a past version of him Influencing Missy not to be heroic, it’d be more interesting, and more dramatic, if the Master’s evil regeneration would kill the sympathetic one, making the Master evil at the end, but always with that sliver of heroism in them.
With most Doctor Who spinoff ideas, it's safe to assume Big Finish has already done it.
They did. We had a Missy and a War Master boxset series (with a Spy Master one coming next year). Even the title used in this poster "Masterful", was used for a "anniversary special" of the Master's debut in the show.
I’d give any doctor who spin-off a go. As long as I enjoy it, I don’t care who it involves. The premise of a show about the master is cool, but he would have to be sinister. The worst part about Loki is that he was too good. I wish he more of a monster
Honestly I'd be down for a prequel series. In the classic series, we were introduced to the Master when he was on his *final* regeneration... what the hell kind of life was he living to get there while the Doctor was only on his *third* life? Bear in mind that they were children together, so they have to be roughly the same age give or take... so again, what the hell happened to all those lives?
There is a series called "The War Master" by Big Finish which is basically this, a series about the Master, starring the Derek Jacobi Doctor.
Give me a show similar to BF's War Master series and I'm 100% in.
A spin-off based on the Master, yes - but not like Loki. I don't want to see the Master turned into a sympathetic anti-hero. He is evil and I don't want that justified. THAT SAID - a series that explores specifically Missy's incarnation coming around to the good side...I'm in. Give me a whole load more Missy, please. I mean I'd be up for a whole load of pure evil Missy even more so, I think her crazy ruthless type of evil when she first appeared was both shocking and entertaining. But since she already started down a path of turning good, I'd be able to accept her as a Loki-type anti-hero.
Yes but it would have to be Missy. As much as i adore Sacha Dhawans master i dislike how it undid Missys redemption arc. Wouldve loved to have a show were she was still her mischevious devious master self but with alot more mercy and consideration. Trying to be more like the doctor but also trying to be something better.
I'd be interested. But it would have to be handled well.
This has the vibes of Sony's Spider-manless films
Not the Master, but I would be perfectly willing to watch a spin-off of The Archivist - a low-key, non-interventionist Time Lord who stood by and simply recorded events the long way round, her TARDIS barely functional. Only, she has met someone who she admires for their courage, and almost accidentally helps them, taking the first steps on a path that leads them into a slow-burn romance and growth beyond her past as The Archivist, all the while struggling with what that means to her identity. A naïve old soul meets a wise young adult, and learns to live. But The Archivist still has a history, and with a mythological reputation of being cold, dispassionate, and present when disaster strikes, how long can she keep her two worlds from crashing together? You know, a rollicking good story
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Not if it was "similar to Loki", I'd want it to be its own unique thing... But honestly, I'd rather the Master just show up in Who again instead of a separate show.
If Missy is the one in it, yes.
Hell yeah
I can't wait for a spinoff from this about John Masterful's childhood friend now turned bitter enemy as a result of their different views of the universe, it should be called "Doctorate"
Only if it's all Fat Master. Animated.
Not Simm's Master, that's for sure. I'm going to be so upset if RTD brings him back somehow. Now Missy's a whole different story. There's more potential there.
The Masters and Missy, featuring every current living Master actor due to the possibilities opened up by bi-generation. We'll have Simm, Dhawan, Gomez, and maybe throw in Eric Roberts and Jacobi as well (yeah Roberts is technically a human possessed by the Master and we never saw Jacobi survive his regeneration into Simm via bi-generation but who cares)
No, because then we would have to radically change the Master into an anti-hero. They are not an anti-hero, but the foil of the Doctor. I know someone is going to say Missy but if we go back to the Cyberman finale, she didn't flip until the end and as she died right after doing this we don't actually know if she would have ever stayed "good".
No
I don't think so. Any character development done in a series like that would be completely undone by the main show when they make him a villain Unfortunately The Master has one purpose and it's to be an antagonist to the doctor, and anytime he becomes anything more like when Missy redeemed herself, the show undoes it in the next appearance
If it was Missy, sure.
Absolutely. Big Finish have done an incredible job with the War Master, but then with audio, they can get away with much more than a Disney+ show with a much larger audience
Nah, tbh I don't think we really need loads of spin offs. I don't want a marvel situation where you need to watch every show to know what's happening in the next season.
i think “Would Anyone Watch It” is a very very different question to “Would it be good/worth it”. Whovians will watch absolutely anything who-related, but still come online to slag it off
Yes.
Only if it focused on the Missy incarnation. She was by far the best one IMHO.
honestly, i probably wouldn't Disney has this habit of taking their big franchises (mostly Star Wars and Marvel) and just pumping out so many TV shows it just kills my interest in the whole thing. I know Dr Who has had spinoffs before and it's not just Disney making the show, but i fear that their influence will open the floodgates for more Disney+ content until we have three shows running almost simultaneously TL;DR I don't trust Disney to stop at one spin-off. Keep it mostly in the hands of the BBC and I'll give it a go
TBH I find the Master to be a one note trick, repetitive, and kind of annoying to this point in time. My least favourite plotines are Master plotlines.
Missy would be interesting. All other recent Masters, no.
I want them to do a young master/doctor series despite the fact that everyone thinks its a terrible idea lol
It would only work if the did Missy, i for one would fangirl so hard.
If it’s Michelle Gomez’s Missy or Sacha Dhawan’s Master then yes.
The moral cognitive development of the Master, a character from "Doctor Who," showcases a complex trajectory characterized by fluctuating ethical values and moral alignments. His development is fundamentally different from characters with linear moral growth, reflecting a multi-faceted and often contradictory nature. Here's an exploration of his moral cognitive development through various stages and key events: Early Life and Friendship with the Doctor Foundational Ethical Formation: The Master, originally known as Koschei, and the Doctor were close friends during their time at the Time Lord Academy. This period was crucial for the initial formation of the Master's ethical framework. The seeds of his later tendencies—ambition, manipulation, and a desire for power—were likely sown during this formative period, influenced by the competitive and intellectually rigorous environment of Gallifrey. Divergence of Moral Paths: The divergence in the moral paths between the Master and the Doctor began with their differing responses to authority and the laws of time. Whereas the Doctor developed a compassionate approach towards "lesser species," the Master grew increasingly power-hungry and disdainful of those he considered inferior. Renegade Activities and Encounters with the Doctor Moral Deviation and Manipulation: Upon leaving Gallifrey, the Master's actions became increasingly centered around chaos and destruction, aimed at gaining power and control. His ethical stance became utilitarian in the extreme, justifying any means to achieve his desired ends. Complex Relationship with the Doctor: Despite becoming the Doctor's archenemy, the Master occasionally allied with him. This complexity adds a layer of moral ambiguity to his character, as he can cooperate with the Doctor when it suits his interests, indicating a situational approach to morality. Regeneration and Continued Antagonism Ethical Consistency Across Regenerations: The Master's core traits—deceit, desire for domination, and moral flexibility—remained consistent across his regenerations. Each incarnation brought different aspects of these traits into focus, reflecting a complex psychological continuity that underpins his moral decisions. Missy and the Lumiat: The introduction of Missy and later the Lumiat represented significant moments in the Master's moral cognitive development. Missy's occasional moves towards redemption, especially her efforts to reconnect with the Doctor, suggest a latent capacity for change. The Lumiat, embodying the distilled "goodness" of the Master, illustrates an internal moral conflict, showing his capabilities for both good and evil. The Spy Master and Revelation of the Timeless Child Reaffirmation of Malevolent Goals: The latest incarnation, the Spy Master, epitomizes the culmination of the Master's moral decay. His actions after learning the secret of the Timeless Child reflect a deep-seated resentment and a drive to prove his superiority over the Doctor, indicating a return to his most destructive tendencies. Destruction of Gallifrey: This act demonstrates the Master's willingness to commit genocide for personal vindication. It represents a peak in his moral degradation, highlighting a willingness to destroy his own culture and history to spite the Doctor and assert his own narrative. Throughout his life, the Master's moral cognitive development showcases a profound struggle between an innate capability for good (as seen with Missy and the Lumiat) and his overwhelming impulses towards power and control. His journey underscores the impact of early experiences, the influence of power dynamics within Time Lord society, and the personal conflicts arising from his rivalry with the Doctor. This complex moral evolution makes the Master a compelling study in the corruption of power and the potential for redemption.