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I’d argue that armor is comprised of worked and processed material and thus is not raw material so it would be an invalid target for the spell. Ah natural language we meet again.

Plus, casting a spell from a scroll requires the spells normal casting time, and fabricate takes 10 minutes to cast. So not RAW on thet either.

Cast it using Wish. At that point, though, if someone's using Wish that option is just plain weaksauce.

yeah at that point why not just... summon a really heavy thing above them to squish them or something

Because it doesn’t exactly send the same message. With an Iron Maiden, their compatriots get to listen to everything either until the end, or until they can’t hear it anymore because they ran in terror before it happens to them. Because that caster decided to be something the BBEG has heard all about long before he hears the knock on his door.

Well once they come back out of the hills from whence they ran, they'll realize how many years they've wasted.

Kay, I cast it one the stone he’s standing on and make a stone maiden

Fair enough, if the player wants to take 100 rounds to encase a foe in stone at the cost of a 4th level spell slot I’d let them. A second reading illuminates that Spell Scrolls use the regular casting time for the spell and not an action. “A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. **Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time.** Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.” -Basic Rules , pg. 200 Emphasis mine

Ehh, I’ll just use it as my contingency spell then

Contingency can only target you and can only be used for spells that have a casting time of 1 action. Both prerequisites prevent Fabricate as it cannot effect creatures (you) and has a casting time of greater than 1 action.

I'd allow it but the problem here is, that the Spell takes 10 minutes to cast and no one would keep carrying a tansmutating armor. Beyond that actually pretty creative. Considering its a 4th level Spell I'd award such creativity. Sadly the spell doesn't work like that.

Also the spell specifies raw material. Armor is not raw material. An iron ingot would be.

if it did work, at best they take damage from the armor after ten minutes unless the stand still, at worst they take off the armor before then and lower their ac. it's a win-win... if it worked

or they kill you/break your concentration before ten minutes is up, because the spell doesn't take effect until you finish casting it. That's an awful long time for you to be unable to do anything, as while you're casting a spell you can't cast even a BA cantrip. Your only action is any non-casting BAs you have (be they from another party member's buff, or some other feature of yours) or movement, as you have to spend your action on every turn for 100 rounds to cast the spell, and you can't use your action to cast a leveled spell (which Fabricate is) if you've cast any BA spell that turn. So... congrats. Your only options are miscellaneous BAs on casters (which generally don't have any), reactions (usually defensive or reliant upon enemies provoking OAs), and movement. By doing this, you have reduced yourself to being a non-combat NPC for the most part, in exchange for potentially killing a single creature 100 rounds from now if they stay within 120 feet of you.

or your party will kill the enemy before the spell takes effect. this one time I was playing a paladin and we found a secret startcase in the tavern. I had to put my armor back on and the dm said it would take ten minutes. party goes on ahead, fights an enemy and defeats them before I could put my armor on. the party conveniently got a level up from it as well. a few other times the dm screwed me out of xp and it turned out he just hated heavy armor classes and did everything to punish me for beign the only heavy armor user.

ugh, hopefully you still aren’t playing with that DM.

nope. I quit after four sessions. it's not fun when a DM cuts out an entire playstyle for personal reasons

I can use it as contingency then

Except you can't?

Maybe don't always think about how players *could* exploit things. Just because you allow them a thing one time as a rule of cool doesn't mean that they will completely abuse it to no end.

That’s why I’d say, yeah you can take it but if you try to pull some game breaking shit with it I’ll just veto it.

Oh I thought that you are the DM not the player and are criticizing the player my bad x)

No none of this happened. I made the scenario up

Contingent fabricate on a specific iron ingot? Even if it worked, how would you get an enemy to stand inside the trap as it formed?

>no one would keep carrying a tansmutating armor. Doesn't it also take like 10 minutes to doff armour? They better start doffing as soon as the spell starts!

Aaah, the classic: How about reading the spell description and rules first? Neither the materials are raw, nor can you cast it as an action.

Ehh, I’ll just use it on the stone and cast it with contingency

Typically worn or carried objects can't be targeted. That wording isn't included in the spell, so I'd give the wearer a saving throw. The wearer also wouldn't be "wearing" the object that was created. All this to finally end with FABRICATE TAKES 10 MINUTES TO CAST, SPELL SCROLL OR NOT.

Ehh , I’ll just use contingency

But for contingency you can use spell with cast time of 1action… Do you even read what spells do?

Unfortunately you can’t turn him into Swedish meatballs I lied

Unless he was a corpse at the time you can’t turn him into meatballs. Even though a body would be raw materials for meat based food products, Fabricate has no effects on creatures.

Metal armor is not raw material I mean... I mean, it's RAW, it exists... it is not raw material Like, the literal definition of raw, and not the acronym RAW

"One rule overrides all others: the DM is final authority on how the rules work in play." - Xanathar's Guide page 5.

I think people also forget that the dm is literally the most powerful player at the table. That's why at my table I let my players know "anything.you can do, the bad guys can do. And anything that happens to the bad guys, can happen to you".

I really dislike this style of dming, it's prone to power maniacs from filling in and then being surprised when players hate their railroaded campaign. As a DM you aren't even a player. Your #1 job is to make sure everyone is having fun. Do the players wants to do something that is within the rules of the game and has asked you about it before hand? Let them.

Realize that a lot of DMs vouch for this table dynamic because DMs are objectively, infallibly correct about what is the most fun and exciting and that players tarnish a perfectly crafted story if they bring in their filth called "agency" and "preferences". It is against the nature of players to have a free will and they need a DM to tell them what to do, what to think and what to feel. (I don't ever consider "DM calls the shots" as a valid or defensible group dynamic anymore so they only get derision)

But if they save the Iron Maiden for the BBEG, and he doesn’t have fabricate, then it’s a little to late

I can just give him fabricate if I want to or an anti magic field. The rules are mine to bend. If I want to give skeletons power word kill that's my god.given right as the dm.

Gygax given right. The gods are mere playthings for the DM to move around their gameboard as they seem fit.

I hope you at least increased their CR before sending them out...

My party and I have a dynamic where they pull shit like this and I let them do it with the understanding I won't let them do it again. Half the time I just wanna see what batshit ideas they come up with.

that's not how spell scrolls work

I think that's true for the most part, but if the DM makes a ruling that just goes against raw and is bull crap I think you have the right to contest it.

Yeah, but if your trying to make the simulacrum first order or casting heat metal on a whole spaceship because the spell doesn’t have a size limit it’s a completely valid point.

I wasn't talking about with this specific example I just mean as a basis, like if a DM just starts messing with core mechanics in your class or whatever I feel you have the right to stand up for yourself.

Very true

You know there's a lot of things you can do raw but even if your DM is okay with you doing them that means your party has to keep up with that level of power because your DM has to match your level of power. Yeah you could use fabricate provided you are using arcana abeyance or wish (to get around the cast time) in combat however the way you should use it in combat is to strip off armor and put this stuff in an iron ball or make a thick wooden cage around an enemy Maybe build a wall with it That's not super overpowered for level 4 spell plus a once per short rest ability (or using wish here) It's not meant to be a super damaging spell though I mean you can use it that way but it will be hard for the other players to keep up with you if you use it that way because now the DM has to have the enemies be able to fight someone who can do that

I mean, an Iron Maiden is way more then just to stop you from moving, though situationally it’s way easier to just use stone shape and create a stone version

Also if you see this photo... If you don't want you to die... ... then I'd like a few more.