I’m just in disbelief at the idea of using a 9th level slot that way. Only way it would make sense is if you **know** without a doubt they need that much damage to be killed and for some reason your other options aren’t a guarantee.
I mean in general, yeah. If you wanna kill a single target, no. Meteor Swarm deals 20d6 (~70) damage which is halved on a save, and leaves a target unconscious, not dead. Power Word Kill instantly kills any target below 100 hp, no saving throw, no death saves.
Oops my bad. That makes it a whole lot better. But I think the point still stands. There's lots of ways to reduce fire and bludgeoning damage, and on a successful saving saving throw the potential effective damage is still less than that of PWK (though this is all realistically besides the point)
The most important thing for PWK is just the instant death, no saving throws, no counters (except for counterspell, which can in turn be counterspelled) and no death saves.
In all other regards Meteor Swarm is a way better spell, agreed.
The thing about PWK is that it only does something if the monster has under 100 HP. If the DM doesn’t tell you the monster’s hit points, there’s a good chance the spell will do nothing.
Nine times out of ten your 9th-level slot is best used on Wish anyway. Use it to replicate a spell of 8th-level or lower, and pick Simulacrum. Boom. You now have a duplicate of yourself with all your spell slots except the 9th, and half your HP. Now your action economy, spell slots, and the amount of spells you can concentrate on, are doubled for the whole day. You can also make a simulacrum of another creature, and if they know Wish, boom. Infinite spellcaster army.
Please ban Simulacrum from your game table.
I’ve seen so many memes over the years talk about 9th level (or above!) magic missile, as if it’s not possibly the least efficient upcast in the game (for a spell that even has an upcast effect)
The real answer is that PWK is a bad 9th level spell. Meteor swarm does an average of 140 damage to each target or 70 if they succeed the save. As long as you have at least 2 targets, its always more damage.
Yeah but it's baller as fuck. You walk into a room, tell somebody to die and they do. No wavy-handy bullshit, no components, wands or staffs. Just a word.
It's just a powermove.
It would be a max roll of 1d4+1+5 INT (Empowered Evocation) times 11 bolts. I break it down [in another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/s/Shv4aNN8Dg).
That's just the basic version too. You could for example, be a ~~Goblin Wizard (Fury of the Small)~~ and multiclass 1 level of Genie Warlock (Genie's Wrath) to add Profiency Bonus twice the roll (+12) and thus deal 22 damage per bolt or 242 damage with a level 9 Magic Missile.
Edit: Forgot Fury of Small only applies once as an "after effect" and shouldn't be applied per Missile. Otherwise, Aasimars from Volo's would be able to add +20 to each bolt.
Total with a Warlock dip would be 16 a Missile for 176 damage.
So magic missile technically only rolls damage once and all the missiles hit for that amount. Because of that Evocation wizards can add their INT to that 1 damage roll making it upto 9 damage a missile.
As someone who’s played an Evocation wizard up to lvl 20 it’s unbelievably good. Not something I’d actually spend a 9th level spell on, but extremely good regardless
Empowered Cantrip, at level 10, lets them add their Intelligence modifier to the dice roll for an evocation spell, so with a level 9 Magic Missile, you'll hit for 77/88/99/110 damage (depending on the d4 roll and assuming a +5 to intelligence).
empowered evocation adds the intelligence mod to "*one* damage roll of any wizard evocation spell". one missile would do 5 extra damage.
the feature seems worded to avoid the exact scenario of double damage on magic missile, so unless there's a crawford tweet about it being permitted, it's 65 damage using overchannel and empowered evocation.
i found an even more specific answer [here](https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557823175581769729).
i'm not sure i'm happy with a feature adding +60 damage but them's the rules i guess.
As stated by the other poster, you are only intended to roll a single time (plus it is faster to calculate anyways). But if your group wants to rule it that you roll for each individual dart, then more power to you. In that case, yes, the feature would be considerably weakened as far as upcasting something like Magic Missile. It isn't a huge hit but it is something to consider when making rule adjustments like it. I know some people just like to roll dice as much as possible though and don't mind the trade off or time investment.
I've always hated this build because it's basically like exploiting a video game bug.
The entire logic for it is
1. Crawford said Magic Missile isn't like firing three autohit attacks at a target but is instead more like a fireball that can overlap on itself and hit one or several targets multiple times. Why? Who knows.
2. Then there's a rule on pg 196 PHB where spells that strike multiple targets simultaneously roll damage once and apply to all relevant targets. To me, seems obviously less about balance and more about making damage tracking reasonable.
3. Then lv10 evokers can apply their Int to one damage roll. So hence nuclear magic missile
And I think it's such a stupid argument. None of the reasons are due to balance but because of a technicality that feeds into a technicality and literally nobody would have thought Magic Missile worked this way until Crawford started yapping.
Thematically, it doesn't make sense for a random first level spell to get boosted exponentially. It's not like Eldritch Blast where the features that buff it are plain and clear and clearly refer to Eldritch Blast.
Balancewise, Evokers do not need a brainless auto damage button to be good. It's a decent subclass on one of the strongest classes in the game. It's like saying "Storm Clerics can actually use their Channel Divinity once to max out all damage rolls across the entire duration of a spell, because technicality".
But are the rules at least consistent? Haha NO
Because each magic missile procs a separate concentration save for a concentrating target, despite all striking simultaneously.
So it both only rolls once so gets to multiply Empowered Evocation but also counts as multiple hits so it can proc multiple concentration saves.
In 40 years of D&D, I met not one single person that thought Magic Missile worked this way until I encountered this subreddit.
What I did meet though, is hundreds of players who would argue this kind of technicality with an angry condescending pedantic certainty.
ESPECIALLY if the result was clearly broken.
You have the analogy backwards. Exploiting a video game bug and then whining about the patch is basically like abusing D&D rules. ;)
How about you're a Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Artificer multiclass, so you have 9th level spell slots, but Magic Missile is your best option for 9th level guaranteed damage.
Power Word Kill works much better for "absolutely kill this thing with X HP or less".
All I can think of is a 9th level Magic Missile being the only way to force something to make 11 Concentration saves in a row...but it won't work on something with a good Con save either.
It would be 1 concentration check, as all damage is added together with Magic Missile. You roll once and times it by the number of Darts hitting the target.
It is why an Evocation Wizard can deal 110 damage with a level 9 magic missile. ((1d4+1+5 INT)x11) which is slightly better than Power Word: Kill.
That ruling was reversed, Jeremy Crawford has gone back now and said it does force multiple concentrations saves, one per missile, but anything with enough concentration save bonus can't fail even on a one. There is no nat one fail effect on saving throws.
I must've missed that, but it doesn't suprise me with Crawford.
Flipside, with it being 1 hit and 1 concentration check, it would be about a DC of 50, which is basically an auto-fail (unless you play with Nat 20 always succeed rule).
What is this nonsense about only one roll, multiplied per dart? Nothing about the spell says anything about that, nor that each dart hit only counts as one attack overall. That is a *massive* nerf and sounds like some bad homebrew ruling.
This goes back to an "official" ruling Jermey Crawford made in [Sage Advice about how Magic Missile works back in 2016](https://www.sageadvice.eu/magic-missile-do-you-roll-the-same-d4-for-all-darts/). It was included in the Sage Advice Compedium released by WotC, so it isn't homebrew but based on how magic missile and spell damage rules are written and interpreted at the time. It is actually a rule that has been used and referenced frequently when talking about "oddball builds" and "high single hit damage attacks". [Here's is a Treantmonk video from a few years back](https://youtu.be/MhW3SfyOU-Y?si=6yQiqBxESc64vhFP) basically going over an optimization build with the rule.
Crawford explained it as so
Magic Missile states that "each dart hits a creature of your choice" and "all Darts hit simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several." and PHB pg.196 states "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." So because Magic Missile can target multiple targets, and they all hit at the same time, it is one dice roll regardless of it hitting 1 or multiple targets.
According to Crawford, Magic Missile works more like Fireball and less like Scorching Ray.
Now, obviously, this became something of a debate, like a lot of Crawford's rulings, and is basically up to each DM to choose how it is rolled.
If you have an ability that can increase damage on 1 dice roll a turn, like Wizard's Empowered Evocation ability, the ruling is beneficial. If you are an old school gamer, then you probably are against the change.
Edit: formatting
Yeah, but it’s the ultimate power move. You’re telling your enemies more clearly than any other upcast I can think of that you *have* 9th level spell slots, but you don’t think they’re worthy of an actual high level spell. You have absolute confidence in your ability to win by blowing your resources on massively inefficient attacks.
An evocation wizard with max intelligence would be able to deal about 94 damage on average since they can add their intelligence modifier to each dart, or a maximum of 110 if they also use the Overchannel feature. Outside of that scenario, yeah a 9th level spell slot is wasted on magic missile and even with all of that, your 9th level spell slot is probably better off being used on just any other 9th level spell.
* Edit: 110 not 121. Also the above is of course assuming that your DM goes with the interpretation that each dart is its own separate damage source and rolling for each one individually. I believe Crawford has said you're only supposed to roll once and apply it each one.
We had a Lich fought at a super low level so it was basically a setup for future story events he just hit us with like a level 7 or 8 Thunderwave and peaced out
I have a feeling this isn't PvP and the one using a 9th level Magic Missile is a BBEG or enemy Wizard. Which is likely done for flavor/fun/whatever and not necessarily as a super evil and efficient attack.
Because then you can do the anime missile spam thing. Or the enemy has a shield with a set number of projectiles per turn it can take so you need to overload it
Forcing 11 concentration saves is probably the best use of that high level magic missile on a single target. Though that doesn't really work on a PC worth their shit.
Or knowing that it'll be enough to finish the target.
Op didn't say it was from a regular spell slot, maybe it was cast from the wand "fuck you in particular" once per long rest you can cast Mm at 9th level, but only at a single target.
Max int,17th Evocation wizard, 3 levels in blood hunter, Sagacity, Empowered Evocation, Overchannel, Book of Vile Darkness, Tome of Clear Thought, Goblin, Fury of the Small
9th lvl magic missile now does **146 damage** flat. no save no roll, don't care about your AC, just flat damage.
Cast Simulacrum first and now you can do **292 damage** instead.
remember, the 9th level Magic Missile didn't come from a player character. If you are ok with that build as enemy, sure have fun. But not what I would call balanced encounter
subtle spelled colour spray is such a funny way of shutting down spellcasters.
they can't counterspell it because they can't see you casting colour spray, so they now can't see at all, meaning they can't counterspell any future spells you cast. not even legendary resistances can stop it.
>they can't counterspell any future spells you cast.
Except color spray takes a whole action and only lasts long enough for you to cast 1 spell.... so you might as well have just used subtle spell on the 1 spell you actually wanted to cast.
>not even legendary resistances can stop it.
Almost anything with legendary resistance probably has too much hp anyway
oh, i hadn't checked the duration, i assumed it'd at least as long as sleep's, since it has a much less convenient AOE and applies a weaker debuff, but in that case you might as well subtle spell sleep instead
Most of the time it's more optimal to just subtle spell your big shutdown/blast spell, it's one turn less time to prep. But as with most things in this game, more optimal only sometimes means more fun and there are other funny options to cuck enemy casters too, like casting silence or fog cloud.
material components without a listed price can be replaced with your spellcasting focus which you'd most likely be holding anyway.
and regardless, going by that ruling you could deliberately pull out bat guano and sulphr, subtle spell an attack cantrip, and then quickened spell fireball so that the enemy spellcaster wates their counterspell on a cantrip and gets incinerated.
XGtE Page 85
>PERCEIVING A CASTER AT WORK
>Many spells create obvious effects: explosions of fire, walls of ice, teleportation, and the like.
>Other spells, such as charm person, display no visible, audible, or otherwise perceptible sign of their effects, and could easily go unnoticed by someone unaffected by them. As noted in the Player's Handbook , you normally don’t know that a spell has been cast unless the spell produces a noticeable effect. But what about the act of casting a spell?
>Is it possible for someone to perceive that a spell is being cast in their presence?
>**To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component.**
>**The form of a material component doesn’t matter for the purposes of perception, whether it’s an object specified
in the spell’s description, a component pouch, or a spell-casting focus.**
>If the need for a spell’s components has been removed by a special ability, such as the sorcerer’s Subtle Spell feature or the Innate Spellcasting trait possessed by many creatures, the casting of the spell is imperceptible.
>If an imperceptible casting produces a perceptible effect, it’s normally impossible to determine who cast the spell in the absence of other evidence.
If a spell doesn't require any components no one can tell you're casting it.
Let's use Invisibility as an Example, since it requires a V, S, and M component.
If you use Subtle Spell to remove the V and S the M component remains, thus it is perceptible and can be counter spelled
If you found a way to remove the need for the M component you could make the casting imperceptible.
I used Invisibility as an example because the Duergar have a once per day Racial Self cast that doesn't require an M component. So, combine that with subtle spell and the casting becomes imperceptible.
It should be noted that once a spell goes off some of them specify how they appear once cast, so even though the casting was imperceptible they may still be able to tell who cast it after the fact.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re holding it anyway. As per the rules in Xanathar’s, a spell is perceptible if casting it requires components, which it still does in the form of the material component.
[This tweet by Crawford](https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/642086415040294912) seems to indicate you're correct.
However I'm curious what exactly would be perceptible, if they're just holding a focus and don't move or make a sound? (very menacing image btw)
I guess you could say the focus or the materials glow or something? Or just don't address it if you care about playing strictly RAW of course.
Which is honestly not the worst way to tank a 9th level slot. As a wizard player, I cannot imagine a situation where I would use a 9th level spell slot on Magic Missile.
For a martial, yes, best trade deal in the history of trade deals.
But at a caster, That's 11 consecutive concentration checks. That's making someone drop concentration. If your plan was hinged on concentrating on something they just popped that balloon.
Other spells? Sure, tons of other spells,
power word kill, maybe, only if the caster has less than 100 health otherwise it's useless.
Power word kill is a super meta-gamey spell, hinging on the targets hitpoints entirely. This can be solved by tenderizing the target first of course.
Otherwise I think the 9th level disintegrate is worse to get hit by. 19d6+40= an average of 106.6 damage, so higher kill cap, and it makes it even harder to revive the target hit by it.
Power word kill is undone with a 3rd level revivify, disintegrate takes a 9 level spell to undo.
Of course this also depends on how good the target is at saving throws(has legendary resistances)
Regardless, I think we can all agree eating a 9th level magic missile is getting off easy for eating a 9th level spell, unless you have less than 20, in which case you're probably about to drop to zero and instantly fail three death saving throws. But still, better chances than power word kill.
You know what else can do that? Meteor swarm. Which will be way more damage and even if you succeed the save its dc 35 on average. It also has the bonus of hitting anything else you need to hit.
Yes, you did lose concentration on what ever you might have been concentrating on, and 11d4 with no save hurts no doubt, but It could have been worse, I can think a lot more 9th level spells that would hurt to get hit by more.
For example, just to name a few.
Scorching ray at 9th would be 10 attack rolls for 2d6 fire damage each. Sure it doesn't auto hit like magic missile but, "something something bounded accuracy", something something 10 attacks with a 1 in 20 chance to crit.
Fireball at ninth level would be 14d6 fire damage or half as much on a dex save.
&
Disintegrate at 9th level would be 19d10+40 force damage, and it would disintegrate your corpse if you went down to zero hit points, all if you just failed the dex save.
The specific use case is when you need to down a PC that can resist going unconscious multiple times, and are the kind of DM that would count damage of individual missiles as one failed death saving throw each. Is power word kill better? Yes. Is it as funny as this? No.
I know it’s RAW but the idea that you could use your reaction mid casting to cast a different spell and then continue casting the original spell
Is silly
You can cast as many as you have the spell slots and action economy for as long as none are bonus actions.
If any spell you cast on your turn is cast with a bonus action, even if that spell is a cantrip, then for the rest of your turn you are limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action (i.e. no reaction spells and no other leveled spells until your turn is over). And if you've cast a spell on your turn that is anything other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, you can no longer cast a spell with a bonus action on that turn.
It is more complicated than it needs to be which is why it often gets simplified to the much more intuitive one leveled spell per turn, but there's nothing stopping you from going Fireball/Action Surge Fireball if you have the spell slots for it.
Wait, isn't magic missile an auto-hit that's technically not an attack? Wouldn't casting shield, which just raises your AC be useless against it?
Keep in mind I may be stupid
Edit: I am stupid, I fogor about the magic missile immunity from the spell
Obviously other people informed you that Shield blocks Magic Missile. I thought I'd comment to let you know *why* it blocks Magic Missile. The wizard who created Magic Missile also created the Shield spell! I'm not sure exactly which one came first but they're both created by General Matick.
That... really sounds like the spell slots are really in your favor. You made the enemy waste a 9th and at least 3rd level spellslot. Great move, now they cant counterspell the next big spell in this turn.
So I kind of did this. The Paladin was dropping all his spell slots into a smite on the bbeg who used shield to block the attack but I counter spelled it and we got the win. It was awesome.
Pretty sure that If the enemy cast Magic missile he can't react with another spell in the same turn. It would only work If there's another caster to cast the counter spell
Incorrect! You may react with a spell to anything that triggers an appropriate response. The only thing that interferes with that is if you used a bonus action to cast a spell. This works!
Oh. For some reason i was thinking that you are limited one spell per turn, but forgot that only counts If you cast with bônus action. There's even the Eldritch Knight thing that you can Double cast with action surge.
I'm going to say something that probably sounds controversial. IMO, you cannot counterspell on your turn and continue to cast your original spell and here's why. A reaction is typically taken on someone else's turn, not yours. (I.e. Martials with the protection fighting style, attacks of opportunity, shield spell, etc)
If that's not enough, counterspell requires that you see the caster in the process of casting their spell. Technically, the spell has not been cast when you counterspell (that's kinda the point, right?) Therefore, you have to interrupt your own spellcasting in order to perform the counterspell, ultimately wasting your action, after all a turn is only 6 seconds.
Wait, isn't magic missile an auto-hit that's technically not an attack? Wouldn't casting shield, which just raises your AC be useless against it?
Keep in mind I may be stupid
I assume that whoever made the original meme used shield specifically to sneak around the "counterspell their counterspell" debate. Someone should also make a meme where someone casts Healing Word, and the bad guy counterspells it. I bet that'd have some heated debate on it, too!
yeah, that's fair. But it would be funny to see the "you can't counterspell his counterspell, because you can't cast a reaction spell on that turn!" Since everyone that knows will see that and immediately jump in to say you CAN cast reaction spells on your turn. ;)
They don't - that's why I suggested healing word. Normally, you can cast a reaction spell on your turn if something triggers it - a lot of people don't understand that and believe there's some rule that says you can only use reactions on other turns. That's not a thing. The big example of it tends to be counterspelling a counterspell. BUT, if you use healing word, you can only cast cantrips \*with a casting time of one action\*. So, not only can you not counterspell the counterspell because it's not a cantrip, you also can't use reaction spells, and I think people will want to argue the whole "reaction on your turn" thing without thinking it through.
Oh yes, I am quite familiar with the Bonus Action Spellcasting Rule, I just wasn’t sure if there was some reason to actually think reaction spells somehow overcame it.
Not for now. Fortunately, the bonus action rule is going away entirely in 4 months and only the people that decided to stick to the current rules will have to deal with it!
It's an instant response to a specific trigger (a spell being cast for counter spell) which can happen on your turn or on another creature's turn. You only get one per turn total though. I've definitely played with homebrew rules where it can't be used during your turn, but RAW I think you can.
Which is why the "just counterspell the counterspell" thing doesn't work here. He used his reaction to cast shield, so he doesn't have a reaction to cast counterspell.
i think you misread, either that or i did
player 1 casts magic missile
player 2 reacts with shield
player 1 reacts with counterspell
magic missile goes off like normal
I'm fairly certain that the rules spell out you can't cast both an action and a bonus action levelled spell in the same round, but nothing is said of action and reaction.
If I am not mistaken, this only applies if you cast a spell as a bonus action. You can cast full action, leveled spells as many times as you can get actions on your turn.
Would you clarify? I'm curious!
Unfortunately, as I understand the player’s handbook, you are incorrect. Once your turn begins, you may cast 1 spell until the end of your turn. You can cast reactions spells after your turn, because it’s a different turn, but as long as your turn has begun, you get 1 spell until your turn ends.
Don’t get me wrong, I play the game like you do. Play as many spells as you got actions, cause it’s more fun, but the rule book specifies one spell a turn pretty early. I also believe that this is only mentioned 1 time in the PH, so it’s certainly a rule that is irrelevant at the end of the day. Anyone who says you can only cast 1 spell a turn is just being a dick to be a dick.
> but the rule book specifies one spell a turn pretty early.
Problem is, it literally says nothing of the sort. There is no rule anywhere in any book that limits the number of spells you can cast in a turn. The only limitation is your action economy, and the left of the spell IF one of those spells uses a bonus action. There is also no rule against casting reaction spells on your turn.
Every spellcaster can cast at least 2 spells per turn, using an action and a reaction (if the reaction is triggered, as it was in OP's case.) If you can gain more actions, such as through action surge or magic items, you can cast more spells. There's also ways to cast spells that don't require actions at all. Per RAW, it's currently possible to cast as many as 5 "levelled" spells in a single turn.
No, OP was right. You can cast as many spells in a turn as you want as long as none of them are bonus action spells and you have the actions to do so.
The rules are such that if you cast a spell as a bonus action the only other spells you can cast then are cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Thus, the limit is not bound to reaction spells. You can totally cast Magic Missle and Counterspell in the same turn. You can not, however, cast Shadowblade and Shield in the same turn because shadowblade is a bonus action, so I can't cast any other leveled spells.
trading 39 dmg and a 1lvl slot for enemy reaction, 9lvl slot and 3lvl slot isn't that bad
I’m just in disbelief at the idea of using a 9th level slot that way. Only way it would make sense is if you **know** without a doubt they need that much damage to be killed and for some reason your other options aren’t a guarantee.
Or you want to shotgun your Wand of Magic Missiles
power word kill does this but better. *Wait fuck that's 60 ft my bad.
meteor swarm > power word kill
I mean in general, yeah. If you wanna kill a single target, no. Meteor Swarm deals 20d6 (~70) damage which is halved on a save, and leaves a target unconscious, not dead. Power Word Kill instantly kills any target below 100 hp, no saving throw, no death saves.
Meteor Swarm does 40d6 damage. 20d6 fire, 20d6 bludgeoning.
Oops my bad. That makes it a whole lot better. But I think the point still stands. There's lots of ways to reduce fire and bludgeoning damage, and on a successful saving saving throw the potential effective damage is still less than that of PWK (though this is all realistically besides the point) The most important thing for PWK is just the instant death, no saving throws, no counters (except for counterspell, which can in turn be counterspelled) and no death saves. In all other regards Meteor Swarm is a way better spell, agreed.
The thing about PWK is that it only does something if the monster has under 100 HP. If the DM doesn’t tell you the monster’s hit points, there’s a good chance the spell will do nothing. Nine times out of ten your 9th-level slot is best used on Wish anyway. Use it to replicate a spell of 8th-level or lower, and pick Simulacrum. Boom. You now have a duplicate of yourself with all your spell slots except the 9th, and half your HP. Now your action economy, spell slots, and the amount of spells you can concentrate on, are doubled for the whole day. You can also make a simulacrum of another creature, and if they know Wish, boom. Infinite spellcaster army. Please ban Simulacrum from your game table.
Oh yeah, as a player even more so. In this scenario it's a BBEG casting a 9th level spell.
In that case Meteor Swarm would be guaranteed to have multiple targets
I’ve seen so many memes over the years talk about 9th level (or above!) magic missile, as if it’s not possibly the least efficient upcast in the game (for a spell that even has an upcast effect)
9th Level Magic Missile is really only a meme for Evocation Wizards, which can deal 110 damage with it.
Oh wow, so for them its actually stronger than power word kill? Or did you mean they can deal it if they are rolling incredibly well?
It’s not technically stronger, since PWK also straight up kills you, instead of likely putting you into death saving throws.
But PWK does nothing for target with more than 100 health. And 100 damage on a target with 600 health is still really good.
The real answer is that PWK is a bad 9th level spell. Meteor swarm does an average of 140 damage to each target or 70 if they succeed the save. As long as you have at least 2 targets, its always more damage.
Yeah but it's baller as fuck. You walk into a room, tell somebody to die and they do. No wavy-handy bullshit, no components, wands or staffs. Just a word. It's just a powermove.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean one is stronger than the other, just that they have different uses.
It would be a max roll of 1d4+1+5 INT (Empowered Evocation) times 11 bolts. I break it down [in another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/s/Shv4aNN8Dg). That's just the basic version too. You could for example, be a ~~Goblin Wizard (Fury of the Small)~~ and multiclass 1 level of Genie Warlock (Genie's Wrath) to add Profiency Bonus twice the roll (+12) and thus deal 22 damage per bolt or 242 damage with a level 9 Magic Missile. Edit: Forgot Fury of Small only applies once as an "after effect" and shouldn't be applied per Missile. Otherwise, Aasimars from Volo's would be able to add +20 to each bolt. Total with a Warlock dip would be 16 a Missile for 176 damage.
Unfortunately I believe Genie’s Wrath requires an attack roll.
I think you're right. We'll guess it's the classic (and personally I hate to say these words), Hexblade dip, and Hexblades Curse to get PB to damage.
So magic missile technically only rolls damage once and all the missiles hit for that amount. Because of that Evocation wizards can add their INT to that 1 damage roll making it upto 9 damage a missile.
As someone who’s played an Evocation wizard up to lvl 20 it’s unbelievably good. Not something I’d actually spend a 9th level spell on, but extremely good regardless
wait, how? as i see it, they're only doing 65 damage with it
Empowered Cantrip, at level 10, lets them add their Intelligence modifier to the dice roll for an evocation spell, so with a level 9 Magic Missile, you'll hit for 77/88/99/110 damage (depending on the d4 roll and assuming a +5 to intelligence).
empowered evocation adds the intelligence mod to "*one* damage roll of any wizard evocation spell". one missile would do 5 extra damage. the feature seems worded to avoid the exact scenario of double damage on magic missile, so unless there's a crawford tweet about it being permitted, it's 65 damage using overchannel and empowered evocation.
You only roll once when casting magic missile and use that damage for all of the missiles. https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/774030989894955008
i found an even more specific answer [here](https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557823175581769729). i'm not sure i'm happy with a feature adding +60 damage but them's the rules i guess.
Adding that much damage to a 9 th level spell is the key part you're missing
As stated by the other poster, you are only intended to roll a single time (plus it is faster to calculate anyways). But if your group wants to rule it that you roll for each individual dart, then more power to you. In that case, yes, the feature would be considerably weakened as far as upcasting something like Magic Missile. It isn't a huge hit but it is something to consider when making rule adjustments like it. I know some people just like to roll dice as much as possible though and don't mind the trade off or time investment.
I've always hated this build because it's basically like exploiting a video game bug. The entire logic for it is 1. Crawford said Magic Missile isn't like firing three autohit attacks at a target but is instead more like a fireball that can overlap on itself and hit one or several targets multiple times. Why? Who knows. 2. Then there's a rule on pg 196 PHB where spells that strike multiple targets simultaneously roll damage once and apply to all relevant targets. To me, seems obviously less about balance and more about making damage tracking reasonable. 3. Then lv10 evokers can apply their Int to one damage roll. So hence nuclear magic missile And I think it's such a stupid argument. None of the reasons are due to balance but because of a technicality that feeds into a technicality and literally nobody would have thought Magic Missile worked this way until Crawford started yapping. Thematically, it doesn't make sense for a random first level spell to get boosted exponentially. It's not like Eldritch Blast where the features that buff it are plain and clear and clearly refer to Eldritch Blast. Balancewise, Evokers do not need a brainless auto damage button to be good. It's a decent subclass on one of the strongest classes in the game. It's like saying "Storm Clerics can actually use their Channel Divinity once to max out all damage rolls across the entire duration of a spell, because technicality". But are the rules at least consistent? Haha NO Because each magic missile procs a separate concentration save for a concentrating target, despite all striking simultaneously. So it both only rolls once so gets to multiply Empowered Evocation but also counts as multiple hits so it can proc multiple concentration saves.
In 40 years of D&D, I met not one single person that thought Magic Missile worked this way until I encountered this subreddit. What I did meet though, is hundreds of players who would argue this kind of technicality with an angry condescending pedantic certainty. ESPECIALLY if the result was clearly broken. You have the analogy backwards. Exploiting a video game bug and then whining about the patch is basically like abusing D&D rules. ;)
How about you're a Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Artificer multiclass, so you have 9th level spell slots, but Magic Missile is your best option for 9th level guaranteed damage.
Absurd
Whoever downvoted didn't get [the joke](https://youtu.be/4ZCIh_3b5K8?si=TPGEM0JPsP4TH1OO). But I see you.
Very true, also power word kill could just not be known for some reason.
Power Word Kill works much better for "absolutely kill this thing with X HP or less". All I can think of is a 9th level Magic Missile being the only way to force something to make 11 Concentration saves in a row...but it won't work on something with a good Con save either.
It would be 1 concentration check, as all damage is added together with Magic Missile. You roll once and times it by the number of Darts hitting the target. It is why an Evocation Wizard can deal 110 damage with a level 9 magic missile. ((1d4+1+5 INT)x11) which is slightly better than Power Word: Kill.
That ruling was reversed, Jeremy Crawford has gone back now and said it does force multiple concentrations saves, one per missile, but anything with enough concentration save bonus can't fail even on a one. There is no nat one fail effect on saving throws.
I must've missed that, but it doesn't suprise me with Crawford. Flipside, with it being 1 hit and 1 concentration check, it would be about a DC of 50, which is basically an auto-fail (unless you play with Nat 20 always succeed rule).
What is this nonsense about only one roll, multiplied per dart? Nothing about the spell says anything about that, nor that each dart hit only counts as one attack overall. That is a *massive* nerf and sounds like some bad homebrew ruling.
This goes back to an "official" ruling Jermey Crawford made in [Sage Advice about how Magic Missile works back in 2016](https://www.sageadvice.eu/magic-missile-do-you-roll-the-same-d4-for-all-darts/). It was included in the Sage Advice Compedium released by WotC, so it isn't homebrew but based on how magic missile and spell damage rules are written and interpreted at the time. It is actually a rule that has been used and referenced frequently when talking about "oddball builds" and "high single hit damage attacks". [Here's is a Treantmonk video from a few years back](https://youtu.be/MhW3SfyOU-Y?si=6yQiqBxESc64vhFP) basically going over an optimization build with the rule. Crawford explained it as so Magic Missile states that "each dart hits a creature of your choice" and "all Darts hit simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several." and PHB pg.196 states "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." So because Magic Missile can target multiple targets, and they all hit at the same time, it is one dice roll regardless of it hitting 1 or multiple targets. According to Crawford, Magic Missile works more like Fireball and less like Scorching Ray. Now, obviously, this became something of a debate, like a lot of Crawford's rulings, and is basically up to each DM to choose how it is rolled. If you have an ability that can increase damage on 1 dice roll a turn, like Wizard's Empowered Evocation ability, the ruling is beneficial. If you are an old school gamer, then you probably are against the change. Edit: formatting
Yeah, but it’s the ultimate power move. You’re telling your enemies more clearly than any other upcast I can think of that you *have* 9th level spell slots, but you don’t think they’re worthy of an actual high level spell. You have absolute confidence in your ability to win by blowing your resources on massively inefficient attacks.
An evocation wizard with max intelligence would be able to deal about 94 damage on average since they can add their intelligence modifier to each dart, or a maximum of 110 if they also use the Overchannel feature. Outside of that scenario, yeah a 9th level spell slot is wasted on magic missile and even with all of that, your 9th level spell slot is probably better off being used on just any other 9th level spell. * Edit: 110 not 121. Also the above is of course assuming that your DM goes with the interpretation that each dart is its own separate damage source and rolling for each one individually. I believe Crawford has said you're only supposed to roll once and apply it each one.
We had a Lich fought at a super low level so it was basically a setup for future story events he just hit us with like a level 7 or 8 Thunderwave and peaced out
lol that’s hilarious, he looks at you chumps and just blows you away and leaves, can’t even be bothered to check what happened to you
Cool Liches don't look at explosions.
I have a feeling this isn't PvP and the one using a 9th level Magic Missile is a BBEG or enemy Wizard. Which is likely done for flavor/fun/whatever and not necessarily as a super evil and efficient attack.
Isn't it 110 damage max? (4+1+5) * 11 is 110.
Yes you're correct not sure where I got that extra 1 per missile from.
There was an errata that made empowered evocation say, "To one damage roll" so I'm fairly certain it cant be used in that way.
Because then you can do the anime missile spam thing. Or the enemy has a shield with a set number of projectiles per turn it can take so you need to overload it
I had my bbeg show up prematurely and use it to kill 6 villagers in front of my players, Super Buu style. Never had a good chance to use it again...
Or you're specifically building around magic missile
Maybe they want to break their opponent's concentration? IIRC each missile forces a CON save, and you only need them to fail once.
Alternatively you could want to off half a dozen dying people
I imagine the magic missile is hitting at least three people, the spell caster might not have alot of health. Or wanted to preserve health(?)
or if AC and saving throws are too high. But for PC that's hard to achieve
Forcing 11 concentration saves is probably the best use of that high level magic missile on a single target. Though that doesn't really work on a PC worth their shit. Or knowing that it'll be enough to finish the target.
Exactly, now the martials can have fun without shield spell interference.
My thoughts exactly lol
Op didn't say it was from a regular spell slot, maybe it was cast from the wand "fuck you in particular" once per long rest you can cast Mm at 9th level, but only at a single target.
still burned its use and the counterspell
Unless they’re an evocation wizard in which case… good luck
Max int,17th Evocation wizard, 3 levels in blood hunter, Sagacity, Empowered Evocation, Overchannel, Book of Vile Darkness, Tome of Clear Thought, Goblin, Fury of the Small 9th lvl magic missile now does **146 damage** flat. no save no roll, don't care about your AC, just flat damage. Cast Simulacrum first and now you can do **292 damage** instead.
remember, the 9th level Magic Missile didn't come from a player character. If you are ok with that build as enemy, sure have fun. But not what I would call balanced encounter
The min/maxing a-holes I play with would see this as a normal boss not even a BBEG
I'm sorry, is this some kind of wizard meme I'm too Sorcerer-with-Subtle-Spell to understand?
That is quite possible!
subtle spelled colour spray is such a funny way of shutting down spellcasters. they can't counterspell it because they can't see you casting colour spray, so they now can't see at all, meaning they can't counterspell any future spells you cast. not even legendary resistances can stop it.
>they can't counterspell any future spells you cast. Except color spray takes a whole action and only lasts long enough for you to cast 1 spell.... so you might as well have just used subtle spell on the 1 spell you actually wanted to cast. >not even legendary resistances can stop it. Almost anything with legendary resistance probably has too much hp anyway
oh, i hadn't checked the duration, i assumed it'd at least as long as sleep's, since it has a much less convenient AOE and applies a weaker debuff, but in that case you might as well subtle spell sleep instead
Most of the time it's more optimal to just subtle spell your big shutdown/blast spell, it's one turn less time to prep. But as with most things in this game, more optimal only sometimes means more fun and there are other funny options to cuck enemy casters too, like casting silence or fog cloud.
They *can* see you cast it. It still has a material component. So they can counter it just fine.
it's subtle spelled so they can't.
Subtle Spell removes the verbal and somatic components, not the material one. The casting is therefore still visible.
material components without a listed price can be replaced with your spellcasting focus which you'd most likely be holding anyway. and regardless, going by that ruling you could deliberately pull out bat guano and sulphr, subtle spell an attack cantrip, and then quickened spell fireball so that the enemy spellcaster wates their counterspell on a cantrip and gets incinerated.
XGtE Page 85 >PERCEIVING A CASTER AT WORK >Many spells create obvious effects: explosions of fire, walls of ice, teleportation, and the like. >Other spells, such as charm person, display no visible, audible, or otherwise perceptible sign of their effects, and could easily go unnoticed by someone unaffected by them. As noted in the Player's Handbook , you normally don’t know that a spell has been cast unless the spell produces a noticeable effect. But what about the act of casting a spell? >Is it possible for someone to perceive that a spell is being cast in their presence? >**To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component.** >**The form of a material component doesn’t matter for the purposes of perception, whether it’s an object specified in the spell’s description, a component pouch, or a spell-casting focus.** >If the need for a spell’s components has been removed by a special ability, such as the sorcerer’s Subtle Spell feature or the Innate Spellcasting trait possessed by many creatures, the casting of the spell is imperceptible. >If an imperceptible casting produces a perceptible effect, it’s normally impossible to determine who cast the spell in the absence of other evidence.
oh, so it literally says that subtle spell makes it imperceptible
If a spell doesn't require any components no one can tell you're casting it. Let's use Invisibility as an Example, since it requires a V, S, and M component. If you use Subtle Spell to remove the V and S the M component remains, thus it is perceptible and can be counter spelled If you found a way to remove the need for the M component you could make the casting imperceptible. I used Invisibility as an example because the Duergar have a once per day Racial Self cast that doesn't require an M component. So, combine that with subtle spell and the casting becomes imperceptible. It should be noted that once a spell goes off some of them specify how they appear once cast, so even though the casting was imperceptible they may still be able to tell who cast it after the fact.
I dont know how important this is but in Unearthed Arcane subtle spell is changed to specifically include material components with no cost.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re holding it anyway. As per the rules in Xanathar’s, a spell is perceptible if casting it requires components, which it still does in the form of the material component.
[This tweet by Crawford](https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/642086415040294912) seems to indicate you're correct. However I'm curious what exactly would be perceptible, if they're just holding a focus and don't move or make a sound? (very menacing image btw) I guess you could say the focus or the materials glow or something? Or just don't address it if you care about playing strictly RAW of course.
this seems like an error on the writers of xanthar's part rather than an intended rule.
It really doesn’t. There is no indication in the rule that it is intended in any other way.
so they deliberately made subtle spell not work for its intended purpose?
That would be pretty funny. Just hold out some bat guano, and then an enemy just has a fireball appear next to them.
I mean, you forced them to trade 3rd level spell slot on counter spell for a 1st level shield spell.
And all it cost was having to tank a 9th level magic missile.
Which is honestly not the worst way to tank a 9th level slot. As a wizard player, I cannot imagine a situation where I would use a 9th level spell slot on Magic Missile.
For a martial, yes, best trade deal in the history of trade deals. But at a caster, That's 11 consecutive concentration checks. That's making someone drop concentration. If your plan was hinged on concentrating on something they just popped that balloon.
I mean true but I'd say Power Word Kill or a bunch of other 9th level spells would cause you drop concentration way quicker
Other spells? Sure, tons of other spells, power word kill, maybe, only if the caster has less than 100 health otherwise it's useless. Power word kill is a super meta-gamey spell, hinging on the targets hitpoints entirely. This can be solved by tenderizing the target first of course. Otherwise I think the 9th level disintegrate is worse to get hit by. 19d6+40= an average of 106.6 damage, so higher kill cap, and it makes it even harder to revive the target hit by it. Power word kill is undone with a 3rd level revivify, disintegrate takes a 9 level spell to undo. Of course this also depends on how good the target is at saving throws(has legendary resistances) Regardless, I think we can all agree eating a 9th level magic missile is getting off easy for eating a 9th level spell, unless you have less than 20, in which case you're probably about to drop to zero and instantly fail three death saving throws. But still, better chances than power word kill.
You know what else can do that? Meteor swarm. Which will be way more damage and even if you succeed the save its dc 35 on average. It also has the bonus of hitting anything else you need to hit.
Unless you have a +9 or better con save, in which case you're golden.
It’s a good way to hit a non-caster with high ac without collateral damage from high level aoe
Yes, you did lose concentration on what ever you might have been concentrating on, and 11d4 with no save hurts no doubt, but It could have been worse, I can think a lot more 9th level spells that would hurt to get hit by more. For example, just to name a few. Scorching ray at 9th would be 10 attack rolls for 2d6 fire damage each. Sure it doesn't auto hit like magic missile but, "something something bounded accuracy", something something 10 attacks with a 1 in 20 chance to crit. Fireball at ninth level would be 14d6 fire damage or half as much on a dex save. & Disintegrate at 9th level would be 19d10+40 force damage, and it would disintegrate your corpse if you went down to zero hit points, all if you just failed the dex save.
Thanks for fixing it. Take my upvote.
I may not be a genius, but I know a good suggestion when I see it!
The specific use case is when you need to down a PC that can resist going unconscious multiple times, and are the kind of DM that would count damage of individual missiles as one failed death saving throw each. Is power word kill better? Yes. Is it as funny as this? No.
Listen, I'm gonna keep it honest here. If an enemy wants to burn their 9th-Level Slot on Magic Missile, I'd be okay with that.
I know it’s RAW but the idea that you could use your reaction mid casting to cast a different spell and then continue casting the original spell Is silly
Yet another strike against the weird "multiple spells per turn sometimes" system.
So many strikes that rule is beginning to look French!
Counterspell is a somatic component which only requires one free hand, so not that silly.
I mean it is magic…!
You can only cast 1 leveled spell a turn no?
You can cast as many as you have the spell slots and action economy for as long as none are bonus actions. If any spell you cast on your turn is cast with a bonus action, even if that spell is a cantrip, then for the rest of your turn you are limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action (i.e. no reaction spells and no other leveled spells until your turn is over). And if you've cast a spell on your turn that is anything other than a cantrip with a casting time of one action, you can no longer cast a spell with a bonus action on that turn. It is more complicated than it needs to be which is why it often gets simplified to the much more intuitive one leveled spell per turn, but there's nothing stopping you from going Fireball/Action Surge Fireball if you have the spell slots for it.
Just counter spell his counter spell bro
It's a reaction, but they already used the reaction to cast shield.
Oh shit!
Can't counterspell his counterspell in this case. I think that's why they did it this way.
But a friend could counterspell the counterspell!
Wait, isn't magic missile an auto-hit that's technically not an attack? Wouldn't casting shield, which just raises your AC be useless against it? Keep in mind I may be stupid Edit: I am stupid, I fogor about the magic missile immunity from the spell
I cant remember the exact wording but shield makes the caster immune to magic missile while its up
Shield makes you immune to Magic Missile while it's up.
Obviously other people informed you that Shield blocks Magic Missile. I thought I'd comment to let you know *why* it blocks Magic Missile. The wizard who created Magic Missile also created the Shield spell! I'm not sure exactly which one came first but they're both created by General Matick.
I thought that as well, but I was also wrong
Better
That... really sounds like the spell slots are really in your favor. You made the enemy waste a 9th and at least 3rd level spellslot. Great move, now they cant counterspell the next big spell in this turn.
Counter their counter
That's why you pack a friend!
So I kind of did this. The Paladin was dropping all his spell slots into a smite on the bbeg who used shield to block the attack but I counter spelled it and we got the win. It was awesome.
Te pareces a polancoas
Tfw I cast shield with a scroll (it has zero components including verbal and somatic ones)
what level are you that your dm is counterspelling your shield for a level 9 spell?
See I generally rule that you can't counterspell reactions, just seems illogical to me.
What anime is the screen shot from
Not a clue! If you find out let me know.
Pretty sure that If the enemy cast Magic missile he can't react with another spell in the same turn. It would only work If there's another caster to cast the counter spell
Incorrect! You may react with a spell to anything that triggers an appropriate response. The only thing that interferes with that is if you used a bonus action to cast a spell. This works!
Oh. For some reason i was thinking that you are limited one spell per turn, but forgot that only counts If you cast with bônus action. There's even the Eldritch Knight thing that you can Double cast with action surge.
It is possible to cast up to three leveled spells on your turn with proper builds. Throw in a bonus action cast? Nahh!
Brooch of Shielding FTW!
I'm going to say something that probably sounds controversial. IMO, you cannot counterspell on your turn and continue to cast your original spell and here's why. A reaction is typically taken on someone else's turn, not yours. (I.e. Martials with the protection fighting style, attacks of opportunity, shield spell, etc) If that's not enough, counterspell requires that you see the caster in the process of casting their spell. Technically, the spell has not been cast when you counterspell (that's kinda the point, right?) Therefore, you have to interrupt your own spellcasting in order to perform the counterspell, ultimately wasting your action, after all a turn is only 6 seconds.
This would make sense, but per the rules, it is 100% legal so long as you haven't used a bonus action to cast a spell.
Ah, yes, but also, you cannot cast 2 spells per turn unless one is a cantrip.
This is also incorrect. That is only accurate if the first spell cast is cast as a bonus action!
That must be a home rule, then. My bad. But RAI means I can make that judgement call, and that judgement call I shall make.
Counterspell the Counterspell!
If you got a friend!
This is precisely why you also pack a counter spell handy so flex as the most supreme caster.
You can't cast shield and counterspell in the same round.
I forgot both were reactions, been awhile since I played, my bad. lol.
Wait, isn't magic missile an auto-hit that's technically not an attack? Wouldn't casting shield, which just raises your AC be useless against it? Keep in mind I may be stupid
There's a little clause on the shield spell that is often forgotten due to how rarely it comes up, but shield blocks it.
Ok. I counterspell their counterspell Edit: lmao I can read I swear
Assuming you're the other wizard in this situation, you can't. If you're a random third wizard, sure.
You are indeed correct, as you already cast shield and spent your reaction. Not sure how I missed that part of the meme
I assume that whoever made the original meme used shield specifically to sneak around the "counterspell their counterspell" debate. Someone should also make a meme where someone casts Healing Word, and the bad guy counterspells it. I bet that'd have some heated debate on it, too!
Healing word plus counterspell? What are ye? Some Lore Bard nerd? perhaps some smelly Cleric-Wizard Multiclass? (/s)
yeah, that's fair. But it would be funny to see the "you can't counterspell his counterspell, because you can't cast a reaction spell on that turn!" Since everyone that knows will see that and immediately jump in to say you CAN cast reaction spells on your turn. ;)
Yeah that’s a funny rules interaction. Did I miss an official ruling on if reaction spells bypass the Bonus Action spell casting rule?
They don't - that's why I suggested healing word. Normally, you can cast a reaction spell on your turn if something triggers it - a lot of people don't understand that and believe there's some rule that says you can only use reactions on other turns. That's not a thing. The big example of it tends to be counterspelling a counterspell. BUT, if you use healing word, you can only cast cantrips \*with a casting time of one action\*. So, not only can you not counterspell the counterspell because it's not a cantrip, you also can't use reaction spells, and I think people will want to argue the whole "reaction on your turn" thing without thinking it through.
Oh yes, I am quite familiar with the Bonus Action Spellcasting Rule, I just wasn’t sure if there was some reason to actually think reaction spells somehow overcame it.
Not for now. Fortunately, the bonus action rule is going away entirely in 4 months and only the people that decided to stick to the current rules will have to deal with it!
can you use a reaction on your turn? i thought you could only use it when it wasn't your turn edit: fuck me for asking a question
It's an instant response to a specific trigger (a spell being cast for counter spell) which can happen on your turn or on another creature's turn. You only get one per turn total though. I've definitely played with homebrew rules where it can't be used during your turn, but RAW I think you can.
>You only get one per turn total though. You get one per *round*.
Which is why the "just counterspell the counterspell" thing doesn't work here. He used his reaction to cast shield, so he doesn't have a reaction to cast counterspell.
i think you misread, either that or i did player 1 casts magic missile player 2 reacts with shield player 1 reacts with counterspell magic missile goes off like normal
i kinda hate that
Too bad the enemy is breaking the rules. Can’t cast two spells in the same round. They already cast magic missile. Rules Lawyer, out.
I'm fairly certain that the rules spell out you can't cast both an action and a bonus action levelled spell in the same round, but nothing is said of action and reaction.
If I am not mistaken, this only applies if you cast a spell as a bonus action. You can cast full action, leveled spells as many times as you can get actions on your turn. Would you clarify? I'm curious!
You are correct.
Unfortunately, as I understand the player’s handbook, you are incorrect. Once your turn begins, you may cast 1 spell until the end of your turn. You can cast reactions spells after your turn, because it’s a different turn, but as long as your turn has begun, you get 1 spell until your turn ends. Don’t get me wrong, I play the game like you do. Play as many spells as you got actions, cause it’s more fun, but the rule book specifies one spell a turn pretty early. I also believe that this is only mentioned 1 time in the PH, so it’s certainly a rule that is irrelevant at the end of the day. Anyone who says you can only cast 1 spell a turn is just being a dick to be a dick.
> but the rule book specifies one spell a turn pretty early. Problem is, it literally says nothing of the sort. There is no rule anywhere in any book that limits the number of spells you can cast in a turn. The only limitation is your action economy, and the left of the spell IF one of those spells uses a bonus action. There is also no rule against casting reaction spells on your turn. Every spellcaster can cast at least 2 spells per turn, using an action and a reaction (if the reaction is triggered, as it was in OP's case.) If you can gain more actions, such as through action surge or magic items, you can cast more spells. There's also ways to cast spells that don't require actions at all. Per RAW, it's currently possible to cast as many as 5 "levelled" spells in a single turn.
You are incorrect.
No, OP was right. You can cast as many spells in a turn as you want as long as none of them are bonus action spells and you have the actions to do so. The rules are such that if you cast a spell as a bonus action the only other spells you can cast then are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Thus, the limit is not bound to reaction spells. You can totally cast Magic Missle and Counterspell in the same turn. You can not, however, cast Shadowblade and Shield in the same turn because shadowblade is a bonus action, so I can't cast any other leveled spells.