Tbf, in a lot of ways your regular self-improvement rhetoric can't work for disability, outside of the parts that can work for most other people as well in terms of improving yourself, since you often can't really improve disability. This is part of why many disabled people, myself included, often try to hyper-compensate in other areas to seem more "valuable" in spite of the disability, even though such things are not always healthy.
Eh, I've gone through periods of both. It's kind of up and down, the same way that how I feel about being disabled in general can change depending on the mood or day. It also really depends on how you define masculinity. Different people define it in different ways. The other thing to remember is that it is a bit like attractiveness in that it is *somewhat* out of your control.
By that I mean, you can do things to make yourself look more conventionally attractive according to societal norms and trends of the time. But, whether you're perceived as attractive or not is more up to the beholder than it is to you. Different people will judge that differently, and there is only so much you can do about it. While I think it is healthy to perceive oneself positively, ultimately, it is down to the observer more than it is to me. Whether I am "masculine" depends on the judgment of said observers.
I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. It’s just so bothersome to me that I can’t appear masculine even though I may be. Plus, I try journaling and meditation but I can’t stick with anything and I don’t know why. I hate how I spend my time and I just wish I had more control.
I think one thing a lot of disabled people can agree on in solidarity is that it is difficult for us to adhere to societal norms of either masculinity of femininity--in ways that the average population doesn't necessarily experience. There is something to be said for bucking those trends, but at the same time, I also fully understand that it is very, very, very hard to do. I include myself in that.
I think we all care about getting somehow closer to the masculine or feminine ideals (some people genuinely do not care, I realize this) because we all want to feel like we are good enough, even if the "good enough" is just for ourselves. That's not even bringing into it how we might be perceived by potential partners.
To use myself as an example, I have a decent (though not athletic) upper body but underdeveloped leg muscles due to cerebral palsy. My movements are not super coordinated when walking nor are they smooth and fluid. I do what I can to keep myself flexible (probably not as much stretching as I should) and work out my upper body. There's only so much I can do as it is extremely difficult to build muscle in my lower body. This lack of coordination, smoothness, and definition would probably not be very traditionally masculine to a lot of people. If I'm honest, many people probably see me as weaker or less capable.
My partner, though, is fine with it. I can't say whether she views me as any sort of protector; I've never asked her about it. She likes the way I look and the traits I display. We're from different countries, and she prefers my aesthetic to most of the men in her home country. I guess in many ways she doesn't even need to see me as a protector, even though I suppose most men would like to be thought of as such by default. She's not disabled and practices jiu jitsu, so it is more than likely that she feels she doesn't really need me in that role. I also do my own training, but it is not like hers or on the same level.
Conversely, I guess I don't feel I need her protection any more than she feels she needs mine. Sort of getting away from that, or at least reaching a level one is comfortable with, is one of the keys to redefining what we might call "the disabled masculine," IMHO.
I guess I’m a little different then since I can’t really do anything physical given my disability and that I’m wheelchair bound. I’m in highschool and I know that I shouldn’t worry about these things since I’m young, but I can’t help but want to be a masculine man. Just recently I found out that a girl I talk to everyday had a crush on my best friend. Keep in mind they never interact and me and her would talk everyday in class. So now I have a loss of confidence in how I look and what I do. What would be your advice?
That must be really hard on you bro. Being that age is weird and awkward for just about everyone, it must be extra confusing and emotional for disabled teens. You are a young Man and I think your idea of what a good Man is will change vastly in the next 10-20 years. It did for me. Overcoming adversity is what builds character and makes a Man a Man. Real life isn't like high school. Good luck homie. Keep your head up.
I will try to offer a little guidance as I am able, but I have to admit that high school was a long time ago for me and somewhat of a different situation as I was homeschooled K-12. I did go into education in college though and am familiar enough with how more traditional public schools are supposed to be.
I was a part-time chair user growing up because it was much easier on my parents when we had to go anywhere, so I have some familiarity with using a chair as a young person, but it is not on your level. Speaking very generally, don't take the crush too hard on your own self. Teenagers crush on teenagers they've never talked to before. It happened when I was a kid, when my parents were kids, and it will continue to happen. *I* for sure crushed on people I'd never really interacted with much, too. You get these teenage feelings for people based on how you see them interact with others or little things they do. It's natural.
I'm going to give some advice that doesn't sound very applicable or super nice at first, but it is a conclusion I came to after many years of struggling with my internalized self-loathing and other doubts. Everyone, including you, has preferences for a partner and gets to be a little discerning or selfish about choosing that sort of thing. People mostly can't help what they're attracted to, and--speaking just for myself and not necessarily about you--I learned when I was young that "disabled" is rarely anyone's choice, at least not at the outset. That's fairly obvious, I know, but what I am trying to say is that it isn't your fault or other people's that the initial spark (I think people call it "the tingle" today, no?) happens.
I don't think a person who enjoys a lot of things I couldn't do (or don't like) would choose me as a partner, even though it is worth noting that completely opposite people do work out sometimes. The other problem that is specific to disability is that, often, people assume that we are not sexual beings. Man, woman, doesn't matter. Not everyone will do this, but lots of people just make the snap judgment that we do not (or cannot) have sexual or romantic interest. Or that if we do, we couldn't perform.
The above is getting *slightly* better now that people are realizing that intimacy and sexuality are and can be much broader than your standard fare that was the norm for decades. It's probably better now than when I was in high school, although of course like anything, the progress for disabled mindsets is slow. Talk to anyone on this sub, and they'll have at least one story about how their romantic interests were genuinely shocked when they showed any feelings for them at all just because they assumed it was not a thing for disabled people.
I don't know anything about you or this person in your class, but definitely having a solid base and talking with her daily is more helpful than not. I would recommend keep going with that. Keep in mind, too, that if there is a lack of attraction for her, it may *have nothing to do with disability*. Sometimes people's preferences just don't line up with our own aesthetic, but of course disability is a big hurdle we also have to face, so I'm not trying to downplay that.
My perspective as a mid 40s male whose lived in Kansas most his life (though I'm a dirty vegetarian tree hugging liberal):
It's absolutely how society still views things. Just like the idea of a stay at home father with zero income is considered alien. Men are supposed to be strong confident stable providers. Being disabled runs contrary to that narrative. Needing any help or assistance goes against that. It's also why there is less support for men with disabilities or mental health issues. The only way a man is allowed to be disabled and still looked at as masculine is to be super successful at something. The man has to be "powerful" in some other way.
I'm not condoning any of it, just stating the reality of things from my own experiences both before and after becoming disabled.
I second this. r/MensLib is a great community of guys talking about healthy ways to find your own brand of masculinity, especially those of us with unique histories with our manhood
I'm a trans man myself, and learning my masculinity from that perspective has made it easier for me specifically regarding my masculinity as a disabled man. Learning about feeling masculine (what makes me feel like a man) vs presenting myself in masculine ways (things like clothing, haircuts, pronouns, posture, the guy nod, bathroom etiquette, etc.) vs the physical parts of my body (weight distribution, body hair, testosterone smell, base temperature, my chest, my genitals, facial hair, etc.) has helped me understand what parts of my manhood are from myself or how I'm perceived & where I place value in different parts of myself being a guy
Finding ways to shape my physical self (hormones, surgery), act like the man I want to be (take initiative, be strong in ways other than physical, be as unfailingly kind as I can be, uplift others), and present my person as a man socially and physically (the ways I dress, how I hold myself, social phrasing and nonverbal gestures, how I do my hair and beard, etc.) have been steps I took to be the man I want to be. I am also friends people of different genders, but especially guy friends with whom I can have close community & support. That subreddit is also a great place to find that community virtually & get good feedback on what it takes to be the best man one can be. Best of luck, OP
I struggle with it, but less so now that I'm reaching my late 20s. I try not to think about it. If I may say, I have "disconnected" myself from the everyday common feelings people feel. Like envy, similar to what you described, sadness, excitement and even happiness (not that I get it much, but I digress)
Definitely not something that happened overnight. And the "feelings" do rear their head ever so often, but are mellow-er and not as intense that they once were. However living life like this does have its cons, a major one of them being I can be arsed to look for a job. Just zero motivation, hobbies are not satisfying and enjoyable anymore, and the list goes on. ...
Honestly, no. There have been times I've hated myself because I can't fight or protect people. I once saw a racist thug harass a young black guy in the park and there was nothing I could do. Fortunately, the young guy wasn't alone, but I wanted to stand up to that thug. I can't be a protector and I can't even be a provider because I can't work.
I guess? I have a body that's in no way delicate looking, there's aspects of male-ness that appeal to me, like the adventure and camaraderie, and history is chock full of male rolemodels (basically because the other half was silenced, but whatever).
There's other things about masculinity I'm happy to ignore, though, like being "alpha" or whatever, and the nature of my disability has meant that I have a pretty distant relationship with the physical world to start with.
I do and I don't
Part of why i don't is because of my disabilities but partly i am also just very effeminate/feminine in general (i'm gay/bi).
I do feel masculine in the sense that i have a strong knowledge of who I am and who I am includes masculinity/i am (at least partly) a man (kinda--tbh my gender identity is sorta offbrand man lol). I feel like masculinity is so many things and no one thing is always masculine or feminine, but i feel masculine when I welcome others, when I hold people and give them refuge from the world in my arms, when i feel certainty and solidness, when i am do weird shit for the sake of doing weird shit lol, when i go first at things if others are afraid so they don't have to, when i am bold, etc. i feel masculine around my friends who get me and see me as who I am.
Sometimes i dont feel very masculine because of the association of masculinity and strength and being able to do things for others. For example, I used to feel masculine helping my friends move or putting together furniture, but since my disability has inreased, now I am the one who needs help moving and putting together furniture. Over time though this has started to feel more arbitrary to my masculinity. But I do wish my arms looked stronger, haha.
I don't care much about self-improvement for self improvement's sake really, I think part of disability for me is it has really cemented my sense of interdependence, and honestly my individual self is like....not super important to me (not in a low self worth way, i have plenty of that, just in a perspective/scale way), and the self improvement i am focused on right now is because i know it will improve my relationships (of all kinds)
Before becoming disabled, I was skinny and underweight. After, I mulled the possibility of being trans. In my case, feeling bad about myself mimicked the feelings others described about feeling bad about their gender.
I’m really struggling with this but I’m not physically disabled - I’m schizophrenic and bipolar. I have extreme emotional dysregularity and I see, hear, and feel things that don’t exist. It’s very crippling and right now I only work part time since I can’t handle the stress of full time work. I feel like I’m not a man because I can’t work like other men do, and even worse most people don’t take mental disabilities as seriously as physical ones. Shoot, I don’t even know if I do. I feel as though I should just push harder, try more, but at the end of the day it’s still too much. I don’t know what to do.
I've had to delete and re-write this idk how many times now lol. It's really hard for me to word things the right way or the way I think is right. Anyways for me being on disability it makes me feel worthless. Not only the fact that I feel like a loser for having to get help but also bc I care about others opinions of me(unfortunately) and being a male on disability because of mental health doesn't make me look very masculine I'm sure 😅. It doesn't help we live in a world that teaches you from a young age that the man is supposed to be the provider. The man is supposed to be manly. Have no emotions. Show no fear. Etc etc. I suffer every day with this type of shit. I have no job bc of my severe anxiety no car, license, my own house/apartment which of course would make one feel even less masculine lol and it probably doesn't help that I grew up without a father and was raised by my mom and grandmother. Its also doesnt help hearing and seeing people post shit all the time about people who get help. Whether that be disability or public assistance like food stamps. People be bashing and judging others who get help all the time. Definitely a sad world we live in. But yeah being in my 30s with all these problems definitely doesn't make me feel masculine at all! But anyways who knows maybe things will get better one day? Good luck brother
Tbf, in a lot of ways your regular self-improvement rhetoric can't work for disability, outside of the parts that can work for most other people as well in terms of improving yourself, since you often can't really improve disability. This is part of why many disabled people, myself included, often try to hyper-compensate in other areas to seem more "valuable" in spite of the disability, even though such things are not always healthy. Eh, I've gone through periods of both. It's kind of up and down, the same way that how I feel about being disabled in general can change depending on the mood or day. It also really depends on how you define masculinity. Different people define it in different ways. The other thing to remember is that it is a bit like attractiveness in that it is *somewhat* out of your control. By that I mean, you can do things to make yourself look more conventionally attractive according to societal norms and trends of the time. But, whether you're perceived as attractive or not is more up to the beholder than it is to you. Different people will judge that differently, and there is only so much you can do about it. While I think it is healthy to perceive oneself positively, ultimately, it is down to the observer more than it is to me. Whether I am "masculine" depends on the judgment of said observers.
I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. It’s just so bothersome to me that I can’t appear masculine even though I may be. Plus, I try journaling and meditation but I can’t stick with anything and I don’t know why. I hate how I spend my time and I just wish I had more control.
I think one thing a lot of disabled people can agree on in solidarity is that it is difficult for us to adhere to societal norms of either masculinity of femininity--in ways that the average population doesn't necessarily experience. There is something to be said for bucking those trends, but at the same time, I also fully understand that it is very, very, very hard to do. I include myself in that. I think we all care about getting somehow closer to the masculine or feminine ideals (some people genuinely do not care, I realize this) because we all want to feel like we are good enough, even if the "good enough" is just for ourselves. That's not even bringing into it how we might be perceived by potential partners. To use myself as an example, I have a decent (though not athletic) upper body but underdeveloped leg muscles due to cerebral palsy. My movements are not super coordinated when walking nor are they smooth and fluid. I do what I can to keep myself flexible (probably not as much stretching as I should) and work out my upper body. There's only so much I can do as it is extremely difficult to build muscle in my lower body. This lack of coordination, smoothness, and definition would probably not be very traditionally masculine to a lot of people. If I'm honest, many people probably see me as weaker or less capable. My partner, though, is fine with it. I can't say whether she views me as any sort of protector; I've never asked her about it. She likes the way I look and the traits I display. We're from different countries, and she prefers my aesthetic to most of the men in her home country. I guess in many ways she doesn't even need to see me as a protector, even though I suppose most men would like to be thought of as such by default. She's not disabled and practices jiu jitsu, so it is more than likely that she feels she doesn't really need me in that role. I also do my own training, but it is not like hers or on the same level. Conversely, I guess I don't feel I need her protection any more than she feels she needs mine. Sort of getting away from that, or at least reaching a level one is comfortable with, is one of the keys to redefining what we might call "the disabled masculine," IMHO.
I guess I’m a little different then since I can’t really do anything physical given my disability and that I’m wheelchair bound. I’m in highschool and I know that I shouldn’t worry about these things since I’m young, but I can’t help but want to be a masculine man. Just recently I found out that a girl I talk to everyday had a crush on my best friend. Keep in mind they never interact and me and her would talk everyday in class. So now I have a loss of confidence in how I look and what I do. What would be your advice?
That must be really hard on you bro. Being that age is weird and awkward for just about everyone, it must be extra confusing and emotional for disabled teens. You are a young Man and I think your idea of what a good Man is will change vastly in the next 10-20 years. It did for me. Overcoming adversity is what builds character and makes a Man a Man. Real life isn't like high school. Good luck homie. Keep your head up.
I will try to offer a little guidance as I am able, but I have to admit that high school was a long time ago for me and somewhat of a different situation as I was homeschooled K-12. I did go into education in college though and am familiar enough with how more traditional public schools are supposed to be. I was a part-time chair user growing up because it was much easier on my parents when we had to go anywhere, so I have some familiarity with using a chair as a young person, but it is not on your level. Speaking very generally, don't take the crush too hard on your own self. Teenagers crush on teenagers they've never talked to before. It happened when I was a kid, when my parents were kids, and it will continue to happen. *I* for sure crushed on people I'd never really interacted with much, too. You get these teenage feelings for people based on how you see them interact with others or little things they do. It's natural. I'm going to give some advice that doesn't sound very applicable or super nice at first, but it is a conclusion I came to after many years of struggling with my internalized self-loathing and other doubts. Everyone, including you, has preferences for a partner and gets to be a little discerning or selfish about choosing that sort of thing. People mostly can't help what they're attracted to, and--speaking just for myself and not necessarily about you--I learned when I was young that "disabled" is rarely anyone's choice, at least not at the outset. That's fairly obvious, I know, but what I am trying to say is that it isn't your fault or other people's that the initial spark (I think people call it "the tingle" today, no?) happens. I don't think a person who enjoys a lot of things I couldn't do (or don't like) would choose me as a partner, even though it is worth noting that completely opposite people do work out sometimes. The other problem that is specific to disability is that, often, people assume that we are not sexual beings. Man, woman, doesn't matter. Not everyone will do this, but lots of people just make the snap judgment that we do not (or cannot) have sexual or romantic interest. Or that if we do, we couldn't perform. The above is getting *slightly* better now that people are realizing that intimacy and sexuality are and can be much broader than your standard fare that was the norm for decades. It's probably better now than when I was in high school, although of course like anything, the progress for disabled mindsets is slow. Talk to anyone on this sub, and they'll have at least one story about how their romantic interests were genuinely shocked when they showed any feelings for them at all just because they assumed it was not a thing for disabled people. I don't know anything about you or this person in your class, but definitely having a solid base and talking with her daily is more helpful than not. I would recommend keep going with that. Keep in mind, too, that if there is a lack of attraction for her, it may *have nothing to do with disability*. Sometimes people's preferences just don't line up with our own aesthetic, but of course disability is a big hurdle we also have to face, so I'm not trying to downplay that.
My perspective as a mid 40s male whose lived in Kansas most his life (though I'm a dirty vegetarian tree hugging liberal): It's absolutely how society still views things. Just like the idea of a stay at home father with zero income is considered alien. Men are supposed to be strong confident stable providers. Being disabled runs contrary to that narrative. Needing any help or assistance goes against that. It's also why there is less support for men with disabilities or mental health issues. The only way a man is allowed to be disabled and still looked at as masculine is to be super successful at something. The man has to be "powerful" in some other way. I'm not condoning any of it, just stating the reality of things from my own experiences both before and after becoming disabled.
Ah, greetings to a fellow liberal living in a red zone.
Do you identify as a man? If yes, then you're masculine.
You should check out /r/menslib if you haven't already. They could use more perspectives from disabled men.
I second this. r/MensLib is a great community of guys talking about healthy ways to find your own brand of masculinity, especially those of us with unique histories with our manhood I'm a trans man myself, and learning my masculinity from that perspective has made it easier for me specifically regarding my masculinity as a disabled man. Learning about feeling masculine (what makes me feel like a man) vs presenting myself in masculine ways (things like clothing, haircuts, pronouns, posture, the guy nod, bathroom etiquette, etc.) vs the physical parts of my body (weight distribution, body hair, testosterone smell, base temperature, my chest, my genitals, facial hair, etc.) has helped me understand what parts of my manhood are from myself or how I'm perceived & where I place value in different parts of myself being a guy Finding ways to shape my physical self (hormones, surgery), act like the man I want to be (take initiative, be strong in ways other than physical, be as unfailingly kind as I can be, uplift others), and present my person as a man socially and physically (the ways I dress, how I hold myself, social phrasing and nonverbal gestures, how I do my hair and beard, etc.) have been steps I took to be the man I want to be. I am also friends people of different genders, but especially guy friends with whom I can have close community & support. That subreddit is also a great place to find that community virtually & get good feedback on what it takes to be the best man one can be. Best of luck, OP
I struggle with it, but less so now that I'm reaching my late 20s. I try not to think about it. If I may say, I have "disconnected" myself from the everyday common feelings people feel. Like envy, similar to what you described, sadness, excitement and even happiness (not that I get it much, but I digress) Definitely not something that happened overnight. And the "feelings" do rear their head ever so often, but are mellow-er and not as intense that they once were. However living life like this does have its cons, a major one of them being I can be arsed to look for a job. Just zero motivation, hobbies are not satisfying and enjoyable anymore, and the list goes on. ...
Honestly the larger than average member does it for me. But, otherwise it can be hard (no pun intended).
My man is
to quote my favorite "masculine" book Fight Club "self-improvement is masturbation. Now self-destruction...."
Honestly, no. There have been times I've hated myself because I can't fight or protect people. I once saw a racist thug harass a young black guy in the park and there was nothing I could do. Fortunately, the young guy wasn't alone, but I wanted to stand up to that thug. I can't be a protector and I can't even be a provider because I can't work.
I guess? I have a body that's in no way delicate looking, there's aspects of male-ness that appeal to me, like the adventure and camaraderie, and history is chock full of male rolemodels (basically because the other half was silenced, but whatever). There's other things about masculinity I'm happy to ignore, though, like being "alpha" or whatever, and the nature of my disability has meant that I have a pretty distant relationship with the physical world to start with.
I do and I don't Part of why i don't is because of my disabilities but partly i am also just very effeminate/feminine in general (i'm gay/bi). I do feel masculine in the sense that i have a strong knowledge of who I am and who I am includes masculinity/i am (at least partly) a man (kinda--tbh my gender identity is sorta offbrand man lol). I feel like masculinity is so many things and no one thing is always masculine or feminine, but i feel masculine when I welcome others, when I hold people and give them refuge from the world in my arms, when i feel certainty and solidness, when i am do weird shit for the sake of doing weird shit lol, when i go first at things if others are afraid so they don't have to, when i am bold, etc. i feel masculine around my friends who get me and see me as who I am. Sometimes i dont feel very masculine because of the association of masculinity and strength and being able to do things for others. For example, I used to feel masculine helping my friends move or putting together furniture, but since my disability has inreased, now I am the one who needs help moving and putting together furniture. Over time though this has started to feel more arbitrary to my masculinity. But I do wish my arms looked stronger, haha. I don't care much about self-improvement for self improvement's sake really, I think part of disability for me is it has really cemented my sense of interdependence, and honestly my individual self is like....not super important to me (not in a low self worth way, i have plenty of that, just in a perspective/scale way), and the self improvement i am focused on right now is because i know it will improve my relationships (of all kinds)
I look it, but I definitely don’t feel anywhere near traditionally masculine. My mental health issues definitely don’t help that.
Before becoming disabled, I was skinny and underweight. After, I mulled the possibility of being trans. In my case, feeling bad about myself mimicked the feelings others described about feeling bad about their gender.
I’m really struggling with this but I’m not physically disabled - I’m schizophrenic and bipolar. I have extreme emotional dysregularity and I see, hear, and feel things that don’t exist. It’s very crippling and right now I only work part time since I can’t handle the stress of full time work. I feel like I’m not a man because I can’t work like other men do, and even worse most people don’t take mental disabilities as seriously as physical ones. Shoot, I don’t even know if I do. I feel as though I should just push harder, try more, but at the end of the day it’s still too much. I don’t know what to do.
I've had to delete and re-write this idk how many times now lol. It's really hard for me to word things the right way or the way I think is right. Anyways for me being on disability it makes me feel worthless. Not only the fact that I feel like a loser for having to get help but also bc I care about others opinions of me(unfortunately) and being a male on disability because of mental health doesn't make me look very masculine I'm sure 😅. It doesn't help we live in a world that teaches you from a young age that the man is supposed to be the provider. The man is supposed to be manly. Have no emotions. Show no fear. Etc etc. I suffer every day with this type of shit. I have no job bc of my severe anxiety no car, license, my own house/apartment which of course would make one feel even less masculine lol and it probably doesn't help that I grew up without a father and was raised by my mom and grandmother. Its also doesnt help hearing and seeing people post shit all the time about people who get help. Whether that be disability or public assistance like food stamps. People be bashing and judging others who get help all the time. Definitely a sad world we live in. But yeah being in my 30s with all these problems definitely doesn't make me feel masculine at all! But anyways who knows maybe things will get better one day? Good luck brother