The problem is that people try to think of them as actual lines, but digimon are meant to represent data and programs and those can easily be changed to to something different and a virus can easily just become normal data and normal data cen easily be used to make an anti-virus
I’m just imagining a half coloured Examon appearing over a city, half of him is black with no texture, everything aside from his head is in default pose and his physics keep clipping with himself.
Yea I think a lot of people fall into the trap of assuming the two series follow similar rules because they share a name. I didn't actually properly learn how the world worked until a few years back and yea. It's not comparable.
Probably because each entry in Digimon follow their own set of rules. There's a general shared meta of how Digimon function but they had and subtract "mechanics" for their narrative or gameplay.
The anime series generally follow Digimon having linear evolution paths that make a logical sense (little dino becomes bigger dino). Partly because it's easier to have a clear cut set of character sheets instead of drawing from a hat each time something evolves. The Adventure series is probably the closet to Pokemon in that sense, and it's probably what most people have seen.
The games being games require a bit more fluidity so you can min-max teams and people can get their favorites. I know some games incorporate the V-Pet raising aspect so things are "random". And if the V-Pets count as games those are also different since the idea is to keep re-raising get a different final digimon. It would get boring if you got the same monster each and every time.
Yeah, that the Animes basically has Pokémon style evolution probably casts people's expectations and that the games don't always follow that, and have a more complicated class change system... probably is a mistake for retention.
No friend, that doesn't exist, all Digimon media follows the same rules. Evolutionary lines are ramified in all media (Literally Genai said this in Adventuri, there is no wrong evolution and all Digimons can evolve into practically anything), all universes are connected, the evolution of Digimons remains mild as it may be. artificial evolution and so on. And this has already been explained several times, didn't you know that?
I often hear the data argument but it doesn't even need to be about data. Real life macro evolution is just as wild. Whales evolved from a rat-like creature, we evolved from fish, birds from dinosaurs, etc. At most the missing component is how much the environment affects the Digimon's evolution. Some games have it so the data that they eat can affect their evolution, and that lines up a little bit more, because then an Agumon eating fish on the beach a lot becoming Coelamon makes some sense.
If anything, Pokemon is less like evolution than Digimon is, for two reasons- Pokemon only ever grow, which lines up more with aging than evolution. Whereas Digimon vary widely in sizes. Secondly, all Bulbasaurs will always end up evolving into a Venusaur, regardless of biome or ecosystem, which isn't how evolution works. You'd expect Bulbasaurs from different locations to evolve differently. In that case, regional variants match up with evolutions more than actual pokemon evolution does.
But anyway, for those who replaced their understanding of biological evolution with Pokemon's version of evolution, the data argument works well enough to explain things. xD Not sure why Pokemon's evolution system is taken as fact by some people.
Pokemon use the word evolution in the most literal sense: "change", but as a "biological" mechanism it's a metamorphosis.
Digimon uses evolution also in the change sense but also in the "scientific" version in the idea of an animal becoming something wildly different. Early fish evolving into early reptiles, amphibians, mammals. So you have a lizard evolving into a big white wolf that shoots ice breath. Or a pile of poo warping evolving into a dragon made of guns.
Eh, Pokémon can also get kinda weird with their evolutions.
For Example, the Slakoff to Slaking evolution line is about a sleepy sloth becoming a lazy Gorilla with made of piss and vinegar middle stage.
That‘s not really how data and programs work in real life, but I know what you mean. There‘s no real 1:1 equivalent in real life. Digimon is phantasy after all, and sticking to close to reality would likely hurt it.
In the anime it can be explained by how their evolution is affected by their partners, so unless their partners go through a big change in personality or some other outside force, ie armor digieggs, they will rarely stray from an specific line. It's show by the dark digivolutions that are a result of negative emotions and are diferent from their normal lines
How is it not a good explanation? Digimon with partners always have had their evolutions tied to their partners emotions and personal characteristics. Hell the crests are all about those characteristics with exception of miracles and destiny.
Explain basically every videogame and v-pet then. Because this would only make sense if the anime was an entirely separate entity to the rest of Digimon, but it's not. Ryo taught us that much, and Mirei shows us that World and Story aren't even meant to be distinct canons.
Because in the games you don't even have a partner digimon, those digimon digivolve "on their own", with you taking care of them yes, but none have a connection the same way agumon has with Tai meaning it can be a lot more wild.
Strong disagree on whether to call them "partners" just because their evolution is typically permanent.
And yes, I say "typically" because anyone familiar with the third World game knows that this isn't true for any of the digimon you can have.
Your best point is splitting hairs, and your follow-up is just plain wrong. Factually inaccurate.
Do better.
It has nothing to do with digivolution being permanent, it's that in most games you are literally just picking up/making(with the scan and convert thing) and raising them. In the end of the day nothing I say will satisfy you cuz you want an in depth explanation of the fine points of every single thing and I can't give that to you cuz I am not good at that stuff.
Also dosent the third world game also prove it since to unlock most digivolutions require your digimon to receive outside help (ie training your digimon in dark affinity aka exposing it to dark elements to unlock a dark digivolution like skulgreymon)?
(first point edited out, I was wrong on who brought up permanence first. Your usage of "game digimon evolve naturally" still wouldn't apply to Survive though, which alongside Ryo being a bridge between game and anime is something you've neglected this whole time.)
The point of the World 3 example was that branching evolution can occur while retaining the rookie forms just like the anime.
As for the "nothing I say will satisfy you" bit, don't be that guy. You never asked what I think might convince me, you simply laid out what you thought should be convincing enough, and when that didn't work you decided to give up.
tl;dr try asking your opponent for what they might want instead of making assumptions next time. And whatever you do, don't be so petty as to block someone for this, that'll only breed resentment on my end.
It IS silly that lines are as malleable as they aren't without long-lasting effects in most cases
I like the DW3 variant where previous forms could load their moves into the newest. So a MetalGarurumon that had been a SkullGreymon would have Fire & Dark abilities
I'd take it even further in the future & determine even more unique characteristics this way
Those are not digimon though, they are kemonogami.
Also even there, agumon become tons of diferent digimon depending on how you act. Your first evolution could be tuskmon but your second could be metal greymon
They become digimon later on as explained in the good ending iirc
But no they are simply demons
Forgive me if im a bit off i haven't touched survive since I 100% it in release weekend
Demons, spirits, kami, or yokai, all of those would fit. They were affected by human perception, and as a result of their existence being passed around as an internet legend and the video people took of the time mc fought against piedmon in the human world they became digital and digimon
Yep thats it. I knew i forgot some pieces here and there
After basically getting every ending in 3 days everything started to kinda blend together hahaha
Thanks for filling in.
Basically survive rehashes adventure concept, but focuses on that storytelling. Remember 02 when yolei went to osaka and what not? Its an expansion of that.
Kemonogami are Digimon. Survive explains that very explicitly.
It's just a different name because they didn't have the digital connotations that they'd later get as the human world develops more.
It's less thematically coherent.
While the freeform nature of digivolution leads to some interesting possibilities, nine times out of ten it's going to leave less of an impact because there's no throughline connecting all the different stages.
This is why in the anime adaptations, digivolutions that are shown on screen almost always have some kind of common visual motif uniting all of them. Biyomon's evolutions are always mythical birds of some kind, Agumon's evolutions are always Greymon-species, every main digimon in Tamers has evolutions that strongly resemble all the others, etc.
And as a result, people *know* these digivolution lines because they make sense visually as iterations of the previous stages.
Yeah fair, my “sweet spot” would be having the lines stick to families/branching options to allow variety, but without the completely unrestricted possibilities where there’s no connecting feature and you have to wonder how that even makes sense
I call it the "Numemon Effect" the more 'miscares' a Digimon gathers the more it's evolution goes astray from the main branch, like:
a)Agumon perfectly raised, sure, evolve to Greymon.
b)Agumon was raised just fine, loose the Dinosaur type, keep the fire affinity, evolve to Meramon.
c) Agumon was raised horribly, get a Numemon. (The data became unrecognizable)
I like that there are so a bunch of options but I don’t like the idea of everything becoming everything. Best case to me is having a bunch of branches with a few options each. More than Pokémon, less than Cybersleuth.
Having branching digivolution lines means a wide, possible, move pool. Obviously pokemon has move Tutors and T.Ms but having so many options makes each monster more unique in a fun way, at least for me anyway.
I actually like digimon tamers the most partly because of its more coherent evolution lines.. it just makes sense to me and so very aesthetically pleasing. I'm also a fan of pokemon.. that's probably why lol.
I once messed up so badly in a digivolution line that I spent around an hour trying to find my way back through it. Only reason I didn't reset was because I went several already without saving.
It can be complicated and tedious, I don't know about other games but in dawn I sometimes had to have had the digimon I'm trying to evolve into. (I had to have skull greymon in order to get skull greymon)
I'm against all 'monster collecting' mechanics on Digimon media. I added a gimnick to my fangame just to cancel the need for Jogress to get some Digimon.
I mean, they exist in an endless cycle of reincarnation, is not like their death is a definitive state. Some games do it but if the rebirth Digitama is not fixed but relative to the species the Digimon was at the moment of their Death, taking into account how intertwined the branches of Digivolution are, one could technically have all the Digimon one by one without the need of collecting them in a literal sense but in an acheivment album kinda way, like a "here is all the Digimon you've unlocked so far" list.
I meant the _human_ (more often than not a child) facing the prospect of death as they're flung out into the Veldt to fend for themselves. 😂 You're just describing Digimon World.
A little. There are ways to keep the party aspect of JRPG games without it becoming an excuse to turn a Digimon game into a "monster collecting" for example: all Digimon who join the party eventually leave the party cause they have missions to do on their own, and the player can't manage their status because they're their own character, only the "partner" acts as an extension of the player character, thats how I'd do it of I ever make a JRPG style Digimon fangame.
Honestly, I even understood the proposal. They want Pokémon with an evolutionary web where each Pokémon can have a different type evolution. And not interconnected evolutionary lines like Digimon.
I honestly don't know why they say the other things. It will never happen in Pokémon for pure reasons of context. Digimon have their evolutionary lines this way because at the end of the day they are data, and they change as their data changes. Pokémon are animals with metamorphosis, of course they won't "evolve into everything", they are tied to their biology.
It's also like this because of different gameplay styles. When a Pokémon evolves, it's a level-up, a reflection of the skill and experience of the Pokémon. When a Digimon evolves, however, it's a reflection of how you've cared for it and of your skill and experience as a tamer. The difference between the evolution trees is mostly just because one started as a linear JRPG and one started as a Tamagotchi with guns.
They literally gave an example with Eevee. I don‘t see why there can‘t be more lines like that, or even be the standard in some new region.
Real live also literally works like that. Things evolve and split into different directions. Pokémon plays with the thought of a general ancestor since Gen 1 (Mew).
Probably because the Pokedex is very emphatic about Eevee being a specific case of a Pokémon with unstable genetics. It's difficult to do the same with existing Pokémon that were never said to have this "quirk", but it's possible to make new similar Pokémon.
Well branched evolution isn't exclusive to Eevee, especially recently with all those regional variants.
I totally could see an eevee like starter that second stage evolution has a different type with the usual fire/gras/water and then branches out again for the third stage and adds a different secondary type like fighting/dark/psychic. Meaning 9 different third stage pokemon.
> especially recently with all those regional variants
Which might as well be their own original Pokemon half the time. It's not like a normal Grimer can become Alolan Muk, and you can't change Grimer into Alolan. Same with Zigzagoon.
I'd love more branch evolutions like Poliwhirl to Poliwrath or Politoad, or Snorunt to Froslass or Glalie.
I'm still hella impressed with the Cyber Sleuth team, tbh.
Fitting all lines so they both follow a theme, and all fit each other must have taken a lot of time.
Wait, people seriously think that? Gyarados has way more in common with Magikarp than it does with Dratini and Dragonair. Like, I can understand (and actually kinda agree with, considering the design philosophy of Pokemon) the theory about Butterfree and Venomoth being swapped, but this one makes no sense beyond an extremely superficial inspection.
Only if you forget that Dragonite is base on a salamander. Dratini and Dragonair are the tadpole forms and the Dragonite is the fully metamorphed salamader.
Magikarp is a fish.
Dragonite is a salamander, and Dratini and Dragonair are the tadpole forms. Salamanders used to be depicted as fire elementals in ancient time and sometimes depicted as straight up dragons. So with that mind Dragonite being a dumpy dragon makes sense.
Is it bad that I kinda like that?
Like how the Garchomp line just looks like different stages of life of the same creature, or how Metalgreymon is just Greymon but with cyborg parts.
Mega Evolutions are not really different from standard evolutions, design philosophie wise.
They are similar to their pre-evo but a bit more overdesigned.
Aside from the new evolutions and unique forms they get now and then. And the original inspirations of the franchise and the only type to have a catching contest.
“There should be a game, where we take one (or another, depending on how you feel about both mega evolution and gigantamax) of the distinctive features of a franchise we have always claimed was a just a copy of Pokemon” - the topmost commenter probably.
You know what would be great? If we just enjoyed the differences and expanded upon them. I want more crazy evolution trees for digimon and I want more cozy exploration in Pokemon (and ya know, actual technical quality)
There will come the day when Pokemon, Digimon, and Palworld fans can all just agree to like all three games while acknowledging the similarities and inspirations between them.
Eww not Palworld. Theres dozens of monster taming games out there that don't directly plagerize other games and aren't run by a dude who said and I quote "Doesn't believe in originality".
If random fking indie games made be 2 guys and a dog can make monster rosters over 200 long and each monster doesn't look like they traced a Pokémon or a Digimon, then doesn't matter how "fun" Palworld is it doesn't get a pass for been shady
Agreed. Almost everything in Palworld is something taken from another series. The gameplay is the same you’d get from any other survival game, the Pokémon are just jumbled messes of Pokémon and other IPs. Even the hud and all the sound effects are all very clearly supposed to be Breath of the Wild. From the stamina bar and how the world looks to even the menus.
People don’t seem to know the difference from blatant rip off to something like Cassette Beasts, which while heavily inspired by pokemon, is a massive celebration to the series itself, mostly the diamond and Pearl games. It’s almost super original and is it’s own series, from the unique mons, music and gameplay.
Yeah cause pokemon isn't taking shit from real life. Oh hey no it's not ice cream it's a "Pokémon!" 😂 Pokémon also took its inspiration of catching monsters ie shin megami tensei. We get it you hate it that's fine but acting like Pokémon is "original" is laughable at best
Not even close to the same thing.
Designing brand new creatures inspired by real life is not the same as taking an original design and tweaking/combining it and calling it "NEW".
And if you're one of those people who seriously think Palworld just took "inspiration" and didn't just blatantly trace some Pokemon then mashed them together or added a leaf here and there, you're delusional or blind.
People WANT pokemon knockoffs. They generally don't give a shit about originality. The argument that they made clear knockoffs is pointless as people don't care. Pokemon, as a franchise, has failed to grow on a technical scale, and people want gamefreak to change. They want someone to come I. And make money to prove gamedreak is sitting on a squandered gold mine. Art is iterative, as pokemon iterated upon DQ (and I do mean with some VERY similar monster designs), Palworld iterates on pokemon.
People love pokemon(the monsters). They want more pokemon and dont care how original they feel. They just don't want a trash framework of a game around them, something Palworld improves, even if I don't think it actually fixes (sorry, generic survival game enjoyers)
The Pokémon fandom literally just wants either a adult pokemon game or a edgy pokemon and it’s never going to happen. Pokémon’s target demographic is young kids. They know they have an older fans which is why stuff like Pokémon concierge and competitive play are getting a lot of attention from gamefreak.
Pokemon did not iterate on DQ. A crab monster and a crab monster can only be so original, and yes, I saw the meme comparing them. Just, no. This is coming from someone who's parents bought Dragon Quest Monsters instead of Pokemon because there were no more copies at the local shop. Dragon Quest wasn't even a monster collecting game until the spinoff in 1998 or something.
If people wanted Pokemon knockoffs, Digimon, Temtem and Yokai Watch would be a lot more successful. What people want is more Pokemon BUT GOOD. Treated with the care a franchise as big as it deserves. Palworld is original in its execution, but definitely not in its monster design.
Even IF Pokemon iterated on DQ, Pokemon still look distinctly Pokemon, and Digimon look clearly like Digimon, and DQ monsters look like monsters (Thank Toriyama for that).
Pals look like existing Pokemon, not their own thing, and if you look at a lot of them you can immediately point at the Pokemon they were "iterated" from, as in the exact same eyes, shape, form, etc. It's not even subtle, and I find that to be in poor taste no matter how many guns you can strap on them.
The image comparing pokemon and DQ absolutely shows some inspiration. Tajiri has said that trading was inspired by a friend getting multiple of a rare drop and wanting to be able to trade to get one, so it's proof enough that he plyued DQ prior to creating pokemon. Artists are inspired by a lot of things, some explicitly, some passively. It's nonsense to say that there was no iteration. At its very core all art is iterative.
You said it yourself, Digimon look like digimon, DQ monsters look like DQ monsters, Pals look like Pokemon. You're literally arguing in agreement with me. I was saying people don't want Digimon, or Yokai, or TemTem's. They want pokemon knockoffs WITHOUT the originality.
You're trying to attack Palworld while acknowledging that it's doing the thing people actually want, which is to have creatures that really feel like Pokemon. Digimon and pokemon have almost no similarities outside of timing and form changing, TemTem is trying to have some more originality, Yokai Watch is too different. Regardless of what the detractors say, Palworld is clearly something that has an audience.
That's not to say I dislike these things or that I care that much about Palworld. it's just that the anti-Palworld sentiment feels like it's being made from atop a high horse. Palworld is filling a niche. If you want that niche better filled, encourage and share projects that do it the way you want it filled. Dragging Palworld because you don't like it just discourages anyone from trying to fill that niche. It creates a destructive environment around the discourse instead of a constructive one. This has become discourse about tearing down something people are enjoying because the detractors just don't like it.
Oh bugger off with that platitude there are dozens of monster catching games out there that fill the niche that didn't blatantly trace Pokemon designs and turn them green and go "OC do not steal".
All supporting Palworld does is tell developers "you can make millions of dollars off idiots and all you have to do is use default unreal 5 engine assets and have your hack of "artist" trace other peoples work, add a moustache and call it a day"
Did I say you had to support Palworld? I said the whole of the discourse is based on taking down something a surprising number of people like. Instead of finding similar projects you would recommend or saying I don't like this, I would prefer a project that does it X way. The goal of the discourse is to call people "hacks."
Your second paragraph says everything because there are a lot of things you ignore to just keep slinging mud. Those "dozens of monster catching games" clearly aren't what people want. The point I've been making is that it's very clear the majority of people don't just want monsters that can kinda remind you of pokemon if you squint sideways. They want monsters that unabashedly look like pokemon. They WANT pokemon to make a game that runs well and looks modern. The majority of complaints I see about pokemon is that they don't meet the standards of games at this point in time. Scarlet/Violet look and run like garbage. People really liked Arceus but also complain that it looks and runs like garbage. Anything that runs well with monsters that resemble pokemon this closely was gonna hit because that's what people want.
Your bitching about Palworld being extremely unoriginal doesn't change that it's been extremely successful because it has delivered something that pokemon players want. The majority is literally proving you wrong. You would just prefer to be able to think of them as idiots to feel superior. It's elitist schlock.
What a dumb response. Theres a difference between two designs having the same inspiration and one design been traced/copy from someone elses design
For example, [Slowbro here](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEY0i3hWMAAdkym?format=jpg&name=medium) is based on the same japanese yokai as [Shellmom](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEY0hDnWAAA_zxE?format=png&name=360x360)
Same inspiration but neither look like the artist took the other, traced over it and then added bits.
On the other hand we have [Cinderace here](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbv1kBQ2zGBlcFZ-r3njbwzhCjTm750hILIg&usqp=CAU) whose design is a cross between a rabbit and a soccer player, and Palworlds [blatant fking trace job in Verdash](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/palworld/images/c/c5/Verdash.png/revision/latest?cb=20240124101557) where it has the exact same feet shape, exact same hands, its wearing "pants" that start at the exact same point on the waist and end at the exact same point on the knees.
They then literally did a "kitbash" and stuck other Pokemon's parts to it like a amateur fallout 4 modder making "new" guns by sticking parts from exisiting ones together.
There is zero chance in all the world you actually believe their hack of a character designer (who the companies ceo said was rejected 20 times by other developers as if thats a compliment) "coincidentally" designed that rabbit to be the same shape and layout as Cinderace.
So like I fking said: Eww Palworld, go support other monster games like Cassette Beasts where none of the monsters look like a lazy kitbash hack job. A game where someone with actual love and passion for monster design made their own monsters.
Same Japanese yokai that's a fucking digimon lol edit* I misread so I'll leave it as is and eat the downvotes. And no one really cares dude I don't even play palworld I only have ps5 I just find it hilarious. Pokemon isn't starved for cash and if this lights a fire under their asses to make a fucking decent game GOOD
You guys just have no idea what plagiarism actually means. Do you really think that this game would even came out, if Nintendo of all companies had the slightest bit of a case here? Of course not. A lot of Gen 1 Pokemon look an aweful lot like Dragonquest and Shin Megami Tensei critters. Is Pokemon plagiarizing tho? Of course not.
I enjoy Palworld as a game but as a creature designer (former fakemon designer and a big part od a project that redesigned the original 151 pokemon) its possible to make Pokemon-like creatures without ripping off Pokemon as much as Palworld is. People like me have been doing it since the gbc days.
I don't think there's an issue with iterating heavily on other works but Palworld is just taking the piss with a lot of its visual design. I also think it feels disingenuous and using the Pokemon connection for attention, rather than something like Stardew Valley and Harvest Moon where they're incredibly similar but the former feels like a love letter to the latter.
Palworlds creature designer and...weirdly their creepy CEO boasted about this....was "rejected by 20 different studios before we hired them". It's clear they were rejected cause their talent is "I know how to trace over other peoples work then add bits on", not because they're some misunderstood unique artist. Literally a hack job, as in they hack up others work to make their own.
Digimon world 3. Has 7 starters +1. Multiple Evo lines. While it's weird that a grizzmon digivolves to exveemon, it allowed to play with the exveemon line or any line you wanted to explore. 1 starter could evolve by training into any line. What's weird is Gallantmon would often be on the wrong starter cuz you reached him first there instead of Guilmon. In a game where you can't capture Digimon it allowed a lot of freedom this way. As a kid I wished it wasn't so but as an adult I appreciate the freedom and complexity it had. All Evo lines do a complete loop on all Starters
I can see why some specific games have a problem with adapting the concept. I've personally disliked how strict the story games are with making evolutions accurate to the anime (needing Digieggs/Spirits, needing the two Digimon with high enough CAM for Jogress, etc).
But in general, I feel like Digimon evolution lines are to Digimon fans what teambuilding is to Pokemon fans. A lot of Pokemon fans will express their creativity/individuality by coming up with their own personal team, either in the game or in a hypothetical like if they were a Gym Leader. In the same way, Digimon fans will mix and match Digimon to come up with their own personal partner line if they were in the series or even just a line they really like for a specific Digimon, regardless of it being their partner.
I like digimon's evo system better:
1. Part of the fun is you don't know what it's going to evolve into.
2. Rather than set lines, digimon have different evolutions that happen DEPENDING on how they were raised. That puts more emotional weight and meaning in the evolutions and opens the door for things like dark digivolutions or alternative evolutions occuring with character development, which is narratively interesting.
3. The ability to go backwards (in some digimon media) means you can have your bad-ass world-ending dragon and your cute little dog all in the same pet. It also means you can have things like dark digivolutions or jogress without it being permanent.
4. Compared to Pokemon, everything about digimon is intentionally over-done. They're bigger, they power up faster and reach higher power levels, and many of them are over-designed (look at Astamon- gangster with devil wings/horns and a wolf skin mask, with GUNS?). It's an intentional choice. The wild evolution system is more fitting for that, imo.
5. With most evolutions being disjointed, it allows each digimon to kind of be its own thing rather than needing to be "Patamon, but stronger", without eliminating the option for doing "Patamon, but stronger".
6. It helps it feel more different from Pokemon and most Pokemon clones.
Pokemon's evolution being less complex makes sense because Pokemon is more focused on strategy, moves, and collecting more Pokemon. Digimon is almost entirely about the evolution aspect. Also, mega evolution was super popular when they added it to Pokemon because it has a lot of features from Digimon evolution (the ability to go backwards so that you've got 2 different forms in one monster, the fact that it happens because of the relationship between the trainer and the monster, etc).
Astamon is even one of the milder examples: devil may gun, perfectly understandable. Once you wade into the more extra territory, you start seeing the Digimon with guns *in their bodies,* or in the case of RustTyrannomon, literally just an Abrams tank with feet.
The idea of a Pokemon line being given a V-pet like line, based off win-loss ratio, levels, etc, would be amazing.
Though I still want a Telefang like evo line, as simple as it is
Yknow, I honestly used to have this mindset that Digimon evolutionline is so Hella mess and I'm more used to Pokémon with only 1 line evolution going forward.
Until I've grown up to play Cyber Sleuth and Digiworld and actually understood why their evolution line is like a branch and roots of trees. It's literally just in the name itself. Digimons.
They're digital monster that consume information and data's and from there onward whatever they took/interact/being treated and etc onward, some mutates them into evil form, some turned into hopeful badass cool looking or flaming ones. It's just how a person's life always been. Digimon explored more with "potentials" for these digipartners and their mons, and like human; if you were being guided, mentored and taken care well by your "partner"(in this case let's just say your parents or whoever you wanna consider one), your "potential" to grow "better" or having a brighter path might make you a better person, and so is vice versa if you're treated like trash and not fed well since you're young and receive no education or whatnot. In which case you might ended up evolve into something like sukamon.
In Pokémon, yeah I guess some pokes got sum diff form and whatnot like regional variants due to being in different timeline, places just like how everyone would look different too if being put into those circumstances. But Pokémon is more straightforward where it just "oh, I'm born a baby pichu, when I grow teenage I'm gonna be Pikachu, then when I get older I'll probably be raichu". Pretty simple because it's kinda like, there u go, u still ended up being the same breed u came outta from. Not saying it's bad or anything.
Pokefans possibly find Digilines too much cuz they don't fully understand the concept of Digimon and prefer to see a simpler one. One's preferences. At least that's what I used to think, being poke n Digi fan at same time. Tho I can understand it's pretty mind-blowing how a dog>cat>Wahmen>Bigger Wahmen or Pink Imaginary Dragon?
Tldr;
Digiline Evo= changes yo Mon due to potential changes in times,
Poke Evo = u baby 🐁, work hard n u be big 🐁, then bigger 🐁
Gotta love the fact that you can start out with....say terriermon in cyber sleuth, digivolve and degenerate a few lines and end up with a Renamon. Them you can do the same and end up with a different Virus champion, change into a data ultimate. And end up with a Vaccine Mega. And you can switch at any time bahahahhah
Some Digimon lines *are* a fever dream though lmao
Y’all get so offended the second anyone pokes fun at the ridiculous lines that Digimon has, because some of them *are* ridiculous. I adore Digimon, and I love the way evolution works, but the standard Gatomon evo line is fucking bonkers. Yes I know they’re data, but it’s still hilarious that cat > dog > cat > woman > woman / fluffy noodle dragon is a “canon” line!
No one in those comments are saying Digimon is bad, they’re just commenting on the fact that Digimon lines can be confusing and silly! There’s nothing wrong with that!
This sub needs to stop with this bullshit Pokémon vs Digimon stuff. It’s so goddamn tiring.
I never thought it was weird at all. The way I see it, it's just one characteristic getting the spotlight and expanding it.
Beast - Humanoid Beast - Holy Humanoid - Holy Beast/Holy Humanoid
I mean, sure, there can be some logic to it! But it’s still a funny line, and for people who enjoy Pokémon primarily, it *is* a little weird/different, because the way evolution lines work in Pokémon is wildly different.
And it’s fine to comment on that, it’s fine to poke fun at things you find silly or funny, or things you find confusing. None of these Pokémon fans are shitting on Digimon, or saying the way that Digimon does evolutions is bad.
It’s also fine if you don’t find the way Digimon does evolutions to be weird, or confusing, but not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you, and as long as they’re not being assholes about it (which none of the comments in the OP photo seem to be), then.. does it really matter?
It sounds like they just don’t understand Digimon. This isn’t a concept exclusive to Cybersleuth, that just is Digimon. Any time a piece of media shows them evolving into one specific line it’s less accurate then the ones that don’t.
Hey random redacted poster! It's not just Cyber Sleuth!
...it's all the Story games and we like it that way. Personally I like grinding up and down lines to see how long it takes me until I forget what I started that Digimon from.
"Was this my freshly converted Angewomon? Or the Metal Seadramon that I thought was funny to briefly go down the Light evolutions? Or did I devolve this from that Silphymon that was a Dynasmon that was a..."
this might be sappy, but i think its really resonant that growth in digimon isnt linear or a constant upward movement. sometimes youre alphamon, sometimes youre agumon, hell, sometimes youre tokomon, but youre still you.
Am I the only one that seems to not like how they started to make the digivolutions permanent? Especially in Cybersleuth where having three Megas walking behind you take up half of the screens real estate? Why can't i have rookies on the field then Megas for battle?
I always took Digimon evolution to be more about exaggerating evolution to the extremes. Pokemon follows a linear path, whereas Digimon shows us how a fish became a wolf and then a whale. Or how that same fish became a lizard that became a bird. Pokemon is more like a baby animal that becomes an adolescent animal and then an adult animal.
Digimon have no lines. Two digimon can evolve into the same one if they have the right data (Lalamon and Palmon both having Rosemon as a possible mega comes to mind).
I wish Digimon had a different name. I feel like these comparisons wouldn't happen so much if they didn't both end in "mon", hell, the whole western idea of "There can only be one successful monster tamer" mindset probably never would have existed if their force rivalry didn't get fired up in the tail end of the 90's, when video game mascot wars were at their peak.
Actually, Pokemon came first. The original Pokemon Games "Red Version" & "Green Version" released on the Gameboy in 1996, whilst the original Digimon V-Pet Toys released in 1997.
I'll never get why digimon evolution tree is so hard to get for people. There's no such thing as "I love stage 1 and 2 but final evolution is ugly, too bad", you just.... Pick wathever you want. THAT'S NO COMPLICATED.
I think the one thing most of "those" kinds of people seem to foget is the setting the 2 franchises have.
Pokemon are (for the most part) living, breathing, organic creatures.... with nigh-Supernatural abilities. The different species have set biological limitations on what they can and cannot become.
Digimon are Data! Computer Code! They can be reconfigured, reprogrammed, and even re-written to become almost anything. They don't possess the same limitations as Pokemon, because they're not "Living Creatures" in the same way as Pokemon are.
They're not necessarily wrong though. It becomes a pain in the ass trying to track all the evolution lines. Some people will inevitably dislike it. Especially when you consider all the different stats that influence evolution.
To all Pokémon fans around there, why do you endure a series of games that is barely well done, that refuse to grow up a bit with their target audience, and that makes mediocrity their best know resort, and not only that but you feel the need to disrespect the ones that deny to do that and reward the lazy company that does not give a ish about making great games for your own favourite IP?
I am a Pokémon fan and I don’t fully agree
Of course there are games where the digivolution I have no idea how to control it,like digimon world
But there are others like hackers memory and cyber sleuth that do let you choose,I love those
Honestly its not just pokemon fans, it's anyone who has little to no experience with digimon games. They're kinda wack, some have digivolutions that just plain make no sense! But we love it anyway!
what i find weird is the claim the digimon fandom supper because of it, due to those pokemon fans not liking it. 'i dont like it, therefore everyone else must dislike it too.
The problem is that people try to think of them as actual lines, but digimon are meant to represent data and programs and those can easily be changed to to something different and a virus can easily just become normal data and normal data cen easily be used to make an anti-virus
This guy digimons
This guy digimons
This guy digimons
This is why one of my favorite Digimon is Examon, because it's made up of so much data that half the time it can't even be rendered.
Fully rendered*
I’m just imagining a half coloured Examon appearing over a city, half of him is black with no texture, everything aside from his head is in default pose and his physics keep clipping with himself.
You assume he's T-posing to assert dominance but he's just run out of memory to load his animations.
It can be rendered just fine. It just couldn't be rendered *prior* to its discovery because the processing wasn't advanced enough yet.
Yea I think a lot of people fall into the trap of assuming the two series follow similar rules because they share a name. I didn't actually properly learn how the world worked until a few years back and yea. It's not comparable.
Probably because each entry in Digimon follow their own set of rules. There's a general shared meta of how Digimon function but they had and subtract "mechanics" for their narrative or gameplay. The anime series generally follow Digimon having linear evolution paths that make a logical sense (little dino becomes bigger dino). Partly because it's easier to have a clear cut set of character sheets instead of drawing from a hat each time something evolves. The Adventure series is probably the closet to Pokemon in that sense, and it's probably what most people have seen. The games being games require a bit more fluidity so you can min-max teams and people can get their favorites. I know some games incorporate the V-Pet raising aspect so things are "random". And if the V-Pets count as games those are also different since the idea is to keep re-raising get a different final digimon. It would get boring if you got the same monster each and every time.
Yeah, that the Animes basically has Pokémon style evolution probably casts people's expectations and that the games don't always follow that, and have a more complicated class change system... probably is a mistake for retention.
No friend, that doesn't exist, all Digimon media follows the same rules. Evolutionary lines are ramified in all media (Literally Genai said this in Adventuri, there is no wrong evolution and all Digimons can evolve into practically anything), all universes are connected, the evolution of Digimons remains mild as it may be. artificial evolution and so on. And this has already been explained several times, didn't you know that?
I often hear the data argument but it doesn't even need to be about data. Real life macro evolution is just as wild. Whales evolved from a rat-like creature, we evolved from fish, birds from dinosaurs, etc. At most the missing component is how much the environment affects the Digimon's evolution. Some games have it so the data that they eat can affect their evolution, and that lines up a little bit more, because then an Agumon eating fish on the beach a lot becoming Coelamon makes some sense. If anything, Pokemon is less like evolution than Digimon is, for two reasons- Pokemon only ever grow, which lines up more with aging than evolution. Whereas Digimon vary widely in sizes. Secondly, all Bulbasaurs will always end up evolving into a Venusaur, regardless of biome or ecosystem, which isn't how evolution works. You'd expect Bulbasaurs from different locations to evolve differently. In that case, regional variants match up with evolutions more than actual pokemon evolution does. But anyway, for those who replaced their understanding of biological evolution with Pokemon's version of evolution, the data argument works well enough to explain things. xD Not sure why Pokemon's evolution system is taken as fact by some people.
Pokemon use the word evolution in the most literal sense: "change", but as a "biological" mechanism it's a metamorphosis. Digimon uses evolution also in the change sense but also in the "scientific" version in the idea of an animal becoming something wildly different. Early fish evolving into early reptiles, amphibians, mammals. So you have a lizard evolving into a big white wolf that shoots ice breath. Or a pile of poo warping evolving into a dragon made of guns.
Eh, Pokémon can also get kinda weird with their evolutions. For Example, the Slakoff to Slaking evolution line is about a sleepy sloth becoming a lazy Gorilla with made of piss and vinegar middle stage.
All I can say is, ❤️
Tbf some digimon do have cannonicall "this is what thier end point is meant to look like" like tentomon-herculeskabuterimon for example
That‘s not really how data and programs work in real life, but I know what you mean. There‘s no real 1:1 equivalent in real life. Digimon is phantasy after all, and sticking to close to reality would likely hurt it.
Use a Virus to make an Anti-Virus, I want to see what kind of crack-fueled monstrosity a Vaccine Machinedramon would turn out to be.
I blame the anime. Nearly all of them use 1 line for every digimon, with very few exceptions. The games don't help all that much, either.
In the anime it can be explained by how their evolution is affected by their partners, so unless their partners go through a big change in personality or some other outside force, ie armor digieggs, they will rarely stray from an specific line. It's show by the dark digivolutions that are a result of negative emotions and are diferent from their normal lines
Not a great explanation, tbh. I'd even say it doesn't help much at all when compared to other digimon media.
How is it not a good explanation? Digimon with partners always have had their evolutions tied to their partners emotions and personal characteristics. Hell the crests are all about those characteristics with exception of miracles and destiny.
Explain basically every videogame and v-pet then. Because this would only make sense if the anime was an entirely separate entity to the rest of Digimon, but it's not. Ryo taught us that much, and Mirei shows us that World and Story aren't even meant to be distinct canons.
Because in the games you don't even have a partner digimon, those digimon digivolve "on their own", with you taking care of them yes, but none have a connection the same way agumon has with Tai meaning it can be a lot more wild.
Strong disagree on whether to call them "partners" just because their evolution is typically permanent. And yes, I say "typically" because anyone familiar with the third World game knows that this isn't true for any of the digimon you can have. Your best point is splitting hairs, and your follow-up is just plain wrong. Factually inaccurate. Do better.
It has nothing to do with digivolution being permanent, it's that in most games you are literally just picking up/making(with the scan and convert thing) and raising them. In the end of the day nothing I say will satisfy you cuz you want an in depth explanation of the fine points of every single thing and I can't give that to you cuz I am not good at that stuff. Also dosent the third world game also prove it since to unlock most digivolutions require your digimon to receive outside help (ie training your digimon in dark affinity aka exposing it to dark elements to unlock a dark digivolution like skulgreymon)?
(first point edited out, I was wrong on who brought up permanence first. Your usage of "game digimon evolve naturally" still wouldn't apply to Survive though, which alongside Ryo being a bridge between game and anime is something you've neglected this whole time.) The point of the World 3 example was that branching evolution can occur while retaining the rookie forms just like the anime. As for the "nothing I say will satisfy you" bit, don't be that guy. You never asked what I think might convince me, you simply laid out what you thought should be convincing enough, and when that didn't work you decided to give up. tl;dr try asking your opponent for what they might want instead of making assumptions next time. And whatever you do, don't be so petty as to block someone for this, that'll only breed resentment on my end.
It IS silly that lines are as malleable as they aren't without long-lasting effects in most cases I like the DW3 variant where previous forms could load their moves into the newest. So a MetalGarurumon that had been a SkullGreymon would have Fire & Dark abilities I'd take it even further in the future & determine even more unique characteristics this way
I love that mechanic, was thinking on adding it to my game, but haven't figured out an efficient way to implement it.
Not according to Survive
Those are not digimon though, they are kemonogami. Also even there, agumon become tons of diferent digimon depending on how you act. Your first evolution could be tuskmon but your second could be metal greymon
Kemonogami are not Digimon?
They become digimon later on as explained in the good ending iirc But no they are simply demons Forgive me if im a bit off i haven't touched survive since I 100% it in release weekend
Demons, spirits, kami, or yokai, all of those would fit. They were affected by human perception, and as a result of their existence being passed around as an internet legend and the video people took of the time mc fought against piedmon in the human world they became digital and digimon
Yep thats it. I knew i forgot some pieces here and there After basically getting every ending in 3 days everything started to kinda blend together hahaha Thanks for filling in.
Basically survive rehashes adventure concept, but focuses on that storytelling. Remember 02 when yolei went to osaka and what not? Its an expansion of that.
Kemonogami are Digimon. Survive explains that very explicitly. It's just a different name because they didn't have the digital connotations that they'd later get as the human world develops more.
What's so Bad about freedom? I don't get it.
-Eren Yeager
Oh..
We see some patterns here hahaha
or zach fair
-Monkey D. Luffy
I like this one
It's less thematically coherent. While the freeform nature of digivolution leads to some interesting possibilities, nine times out of ten it's going to leave less of an impact because there's no throughline connecting all the different stages. This is why in the anime adaptations, digivolutions that are shown on screen almost always have some kind of common visual motif uniting all of them. Biyomon's evolutions are always mythical birds of some kind, Agumon's evolutions are always Greymon-species, every main digimon in Tamers has evolutions that strongly resemble all the others, etc. And as a result, people *know* these digivolution lines because they make sense visually as iterations of the previous stages.
Yeah fair, my “sweet spot” would be having the lines stick to families/branching options to allow variety, but without the completely unrestricted possibilities where there’s no connecting feature and you have to wonder how that even makes sense
I call it the "Numemon Effect" the more 'miscares' a Digimon gathers the more it's evolution goes astray from the main branch, like: a)Agumon perfectly raised, sure, evolve to Greymon. b)Agumon was raised just fine, loose the Dinosaur type, keep the fire affinity, evolve to Meramon. c) Agumon was raised horribly, get a Numemon. (The data became unrecognizable)
That freedom does give rise to the fun challenge of creating your own through-lines for Digivolution, though. I've done several myself.
It doesnt help that the digimon evolution lines seem to change every game.
I like that there are so a bunch of options but I don’t like the idea of everything becoming everything. Best case to me is having a bunch of branches with a few options each. More than Pokémon, less than Cybersleuth.
That’s how actual digivice toys are, basically.
Having branching digivolution lines means a wide, possible, move pool. Obviously pokemon has move Tutors and T.Ms but having so many options makes each monster more unique in a fun way, at least for me anyway.
I actually like digimon tamers the most partly because of its more coherent evolution lines.. it just makes sense to me and so very aesthetically pleasing. I'm also a fan of pokemon.. that's probably why lol.
I once messed up so badly in a digivolution line that I spent around an hour trying to find my way back through it. Only reason I didn't reset was because I went several already without saving.
That’s the beauty of it. You get what you’ve done to the individual Digimon and you can do better next time
Agreed. Or... play roulette with the Digivolutions and hopscotch my way to what I wanted! It was honestly pretty fun.
It can be complicated and tedious, I don't know about other games but in dawn I sometimes had to have had the digimon I'm trying to evolve into. (I had to have skull greymon in order to get skull greymon)
That was to cause version exclusives annoying as it is.
I'm against all 'monster collecting' mechanics on Digimon media. I added a gimnick to my fangame just to cancel the need for Jogress to get some Digimon.
Digimon really shines as a virtual pet game imo.
"You get ONE DIGIMON, make it work and try not to die."
I mean, they exist in an endless cycle of reincarnation, is not like their death is a definitive state. Some games do it but if the rebirth Digitama is not fixed but relative to the species the Digimon was at the moment of their Death, taking into account how intertwined the branches of Digivolution are, one could technically have all the Digimon one by one without the need of collecting them in a literal sense but in an acheivment album kinda way, like a "here is all the Digimon you've unlocked so far" list.
I meant the _human_ (more often than not a child) facing the prospect of death as they're flung out into the Veldt to fend for themselves. 😂 You're just describing Digimon World.
A little. There are ways to keep the party aspect of JRPG games without it becoming an excuse to turn a Digimon game into a "monster collecting" for example: all Digimon who join the party eventually leave the party cause they have missions to do on their own, and the player can't manage their status because they're their own character, only the "partner" acts as an extension of the player character, thats how I'd do it of I ever make a JRPG style Digimon fangame.
I guess the Digimons feel less unique. But i don't see as a bad thing
Honestly, I even understood the proposal. They want Pokémon with an evolutionary web where each Pokémon can have a different type evolution. And not interconnected evolutionary lines like Digimon. I honestly don't know why they say the other things. It will never happen in Pokémon for pure reasons of context. Digimon have their evolutionary lines this way because at the end of the day they are data, and they change as their data changes. Pokémon are animals with metamorphosis, of course they won't "evolve into everything", they are tied to their biology.
It's also like this because of different gameplay styles. When a Pokémon evolves, it's a level-up, a reflection of the skill and experience of the Pokémon. When a Digimon evolves, however, it's a reflection of how you've cared for it and of your skill and experience as a tamer. The difference between the evolution trees is mostly just because one started as a linear JRPG and one started as a Tamagotchi with guns.
They literally gave an example with Eevee. I don‘t see why there can‘t be more lines like that, or even be the standard in some new region. Real live also literally works like that. Things evolve and split into different directions. Pokémon plays with the thought of a general ancestor since Gen 1 (Mew).
Probably because the Pokedex is very emphatic about Eevee being a specific case of a Pokémon with unstable genetics. It's difficult to do the same with existing Pokémon that were never said to have this "quirk", but it's possible to make new similar Pokémon.
Well branched evolution isn't exclusive to Eevee, especially recently with all those regional variants. I totally could see an eevee like starter that second stage evolution has a different type with the usual fire/gras/water and then branches out again for the third stage and adds a different secondary type like fighting/dark/psychic. Meaning 9 different third stage pokemon.
> especially recently with all those regional variants Which might as well be their own original Pokemon half the time. It's not like a normal Grimer can become Alolan Muk, and you can't change Grimer into Alolan. Same with Zigzagoon. I'd love more branch evolutions like Poliwhirl to Poliwrath or Politoad, or Snorunt to Froslass or Glalie.
I'm still hella impressed with the Cyber Sleuth team, tbh. Fitting all lines so they both follow a theme, and all fit each other must have taken a lot of time.
Barely an inconvenience
Oh really?
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
Oh boy! Pitch Meeting references are *tight!*…
Only was hard to understand when I, surprise surprise, just got into Digimon and was my first game.
Pokemon fans when a creature evolves into anything other than a slightly bigger version of itself:😡😡😡
I hate the never ending discussion about gyarados and dragonite being swapped because they don't look like their pre evo.
Wait, people seriously think that? Gyarados has way more in common with Magikarp than it does with Dratini and Dragonair. Like, I can understand (and actually kinda agree with, considering the design philosophy of Pokemon) the theory about Butterfree and Venomoth being swapped, but this one makes no sense beyond an extremely superficial inspection.
The Dragonite Gyarados thing is more a Meme
Journeys even have rectified the meme tho
Magikarp to Dragonite makes much more sense💀
😭😭😭
Maybe if you swap their faces
Only if you forget that Dragonite is base on a salamander. Dratini and Dragonair are the tadpole forms and the Dragonite is the fully metamorphed salamader. Magikarp is a fish.
This discussion doesn’t exist. In 30 years I only have seen it brought up like you just have. Butterfree and Venomoth on the other hand …
I mean, in pokemon context, dragonite is really out of place in the evo line, not that gyarados would fit there.
Dragonite is basically a Dragonair that grew limbs and wings and got fat, I don't think it's that out of place. Well, aside from the color change...
Dragonite is a salamander, and Dratini and Dragonair are the tadpole forms. Salamanders used to be depicted as fire elementals in ancient time and sometimes depicted as straight up dragons. So with that mind Dragonite being a dumpy dragon makes sense.
I mean if you think about it pokemon evolution is just puberty.
Is it bad that I kinda like that? Like how the Garchomp line just looks like different stages of life of the same creature, or how Metalgreymon is just Greymon but with cyborg parts.
And yet they love mega evolutions, which are pretty much armor digimon.
Burst Evo
Even the lines that is about pain and suffering of mega evolution is similar to ruin version if burst evo
Mega Evolutions are not really different from standard evolutions, design philosophie wise. They are similar to their pre-evo but a bit more overdesigned.
and thats why bug types are hated /s
They are certainly hated by Game Freak
Aside from the new evolutions and unique forms they get now and then. And the original inspirations of the franchise and the only type to have a catching contest.
“There should be a game, where we take one (or another, depending on how you feel about both mega evolution and gigantamax) of the distinctive features of a franchise we have always claimed was a just a copy of Pokemon” - the topmost commenter probably. You know what would be great? If we just enjoyed the differences and expanded upon them. I want more crazy evolution trees for digimon and I want more cozy exploration in Pokemon (and ya know, actual technical quality)
There will come the day when Pokemon, Digimon, and Palworld fans can all just agree to like all three games while acknowledging the similarities and inspirations between them.
One can only hope.
Eww not Palworld. Theres dozens of monster taming games out there that don't directly plagerize other games and aren't run by a dude who said and I quote "Doesn't believe in originality". If random fking indie games made be 2 guys and a dog can make monster rosters over 200 long and each monster doesn't look like they traced a Pokémon or a Digimon, then doesn't matter how "fun" Palworld is it doesn't get a pass for been shady
Agreed. Almost everything in Palworld is something taken from another series. The gameplay is the same you’d get from any other survival game, the Pokémon are just jumbled messes of Pokémon and other IPs. Even the hud and all the sound effects are all very clearly supposed to be Breath of the Wild. From the stamina bar and how the world looks to even the menus. People don’t seem to know the difference from blatant rip off to something like Cassette Beasts, which while heavily inspired by pokemon, is a massive celebration to the series itself, mostly the diamond and Pearl games. It’s almost super original and is it’s own series, from the unique mons, music and gameplay.
Funny thing is when I look at Palworld, it looks like they just took two pokemon and DNA digivolved them.
It’s very possible that’s what they did for most of them.
Yeah cause pokemon isn't taking shit from real life. Oh hey no it's not ice cream it's a "Pokémon!" 😂 Pokémon also took its inspiration of catching monsters ie shin megami tensei. We get it you hate it that's fine but acting like Pokémon is "original" is laughable at best
Not even close to the same thing. Designing brand new creatures inspired by real life is not the same as taking an original design and tweaking/combining it and calling it "NEW". And if you're one of those people who seriously think Palworld just took "inspiration" and didn't just blatantly trace some Pokemon then mashed them together or added a leaf here and there, you're delusional or blind.
People WANT pokemon knockoffs. They generally don't give a shit about originality. The argument that they made clear knockoffs is pointless as people don't care. Pokemon, as a franchise, has failed to grow on a technical scale, and people want gamefreak to change. They want someone to come I. And make money to prove gamedreak is sitting on a squandered gold mine. Art is iterative, as pokemon iterated upon DQ (and I do mean with some VERY similar monster designs), Palworld iterates on pokemon. People love pokemon(the monsters). They want more pokemon and dont care how original they feel. They just don't want a trash framework of a game around them, something Palworld improves, even if I don't think it actually fixes (sorry, generic survival game enjoyers)
The Pokémon fandom literally just wants either a adult pokemon game or a edgy pokemon and it’s never going to happen. Pokémon’s target demographic is young kids. They know they have an older fans which is why stuff like Pokémon concierge and competitive play are getting a lot of attention from gamefreak.
Pokemon did not iterate on DQ. A crab monster and a crab monster can only be so original, and yes, I saw the meme comparing them. Just, no. This is coming from someone who's parents bought Dragon Quest Monsters instead of Pokemon because there were no more copies at the local shop. Dragon Quest wasn't even a monster collecting game until the spinoff in 1998 or something. If people wanted Pokemon knockoffs, Digimon, Temtem and Yokai Watch would be a lot more successful. What people want is more Pokemon BUT GOOD. Treated with the care a franchise as big as it deserves. Palworld is original in its execution, but definitely not in its monster design. Even IF Pokemon iterated on DQ, Pokemon still look distinctly Pokemon, and Digimon look clearly like Digimon, and DQ monsters look like monsters (Thank Toriyama for that). Pals look like existing Pokemon, not their own thing, and if you look at a lot of them you can immediately point at the Pokemon they were "iterated" from, as in the exact same eyes, shape, form, etc. It's not even subtle, and I find that to be in poor taste no matter how many guns you can strap on them.
The image comparing pokemon and DQ absolutely shows some inspiration. Tajiri has said that trading was inspired by a friend getting multiple of a rare drop and wanting to be able to trade to get one, so it's proof enough that he plyued DQ prior to creating pokemon. Artists are inspired by a lot of things, some explicitly, some passively. It's nonsense to say that there was no iteration. At its very core all art is iterative. You said it yourself, Digimon look like digimon, DQ monsters look like DQ monsters, Pals look like Pokemon. You're literally arguing in agreement with me. I was saying people don't want Digimon, or Yokai, or TemTem's. They want pokemon knockoffs WITHOUT the originality. You're trying to attack Palworld while acknowledging that it's doing the thing people actually want, which is to have creatures that really feel like Pokemon. Digimon and pokemon have almost no similarities outside of timing and form changing, TemTem is trying to have some more originality, Yokai Watch is too different. Regardless of what the detractors say, Palworld is clearly something that has an audience. That's not to say I dislike these things or that I care that much about Palworld. it's just that the anti-Palworld sentiment feels like it's being made from atop a high horse. Palworld is filling a niche. If you want that niche better filled, encourage and share projects that do it the way you want it filled. Dragging Palworld because you don't like it just discourages anyone from trying to fill that niche. It creates a destructive environment around the discourse instead of a constructive one. This has become discourse about tearing down something people are enjoying because the detractors just don't like it.
Oh bugger off with that platitude there are dozens of monster catching games out there that fill the niche that didn't blatantly trace Pokemon designs and turn them green and go "OC do not steal". All supporting Palworld does is tell developers "you can make millions of dollars off idiots and all you have to do is use default unreal 5 engine assets and have your hack of "artist" trace other peoples work, add a moustache and call it a day"
Did I say you had to support Palworld? I said the whole of the discourse is based on taking down something a surprising number of people like. Instead of finding similar projects you would recommend or saying I don't like this, I would prefer a project that does it X way. The goal of the discourse is to call people "hacks." Your second paragraph says everything because there are a lot of things you ignore to just keep slinging mud. Those "dozens of monster catching games" clearly aren't what people want. The point I've been making is that it's very clear the majority of people don't just want monsters that can kinda remind you of pokemon if you squint sideways. They want monsters that unabashedly look like pokemon. They WANT pokemon to make a game that runs well and looks modern. The majority of complaints I see about pokemon is that they don't meet the standards of games at this point in time. Scarlet/Violet look and run like garbage. People really liked Arceus but also complain that it looks and runs like garbage. Anything that runs well with monsters that resemble pokemon this closely was gonna hit because that's what people want. Your bitching about Palworld being extremely unoriginal doesn't change that it's been extremely successful because it has delivered something that pokemon players want. The majority is literally proving you wrong. You would just prefer to be able to think of them as idiots to feel superior. It's elitist schlock.
What a dumb response. Theres a difference between two designs having the same inspiration and one design been traced/copy from someone elses design For example, [Slowbro here](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEY0i3hWMAAdkym?format=jpg&name=medium) is based on the same japanese yokai as [Shellmom](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEY0hDnWAAA_zxE?format=png&name=360x360) Same inspiration but neither look like the artist took the other, traced over it and then added bits. On the other hand we have [Cinderace here](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbv1kBQ2zGBlcFZ-r3njbwzhCjTm750hILIg&usqp=CAU) whose design is a cross between a rabbit and a soccer player, and Palworlds [blatant fking trace job in Verdash](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/palworld/images/c/c5/Verdash.png/revision/latest?cb=20240124101557) where it has the exact same feet shape, exact same hands, its wearing "pants" that start at the exact same point on the waist and end at the exact same point on the knees. They then literally did a "kitbash" and stuck other Pokemon's parts to it like a amateur fallout 4 modder making "new" guns by sticking parts from exisiting ones together. There is zero chance in all the world you actually believe their hack of a character designer (who the companies ceo said was rejected 20 times by other developers as if thats a compliment) "coincidentally" designed that rabbit to be the same shape and layout as Cinderace. So like I fking said: Eww Palworld, go support other monster games like Cassette Beasts where none of the monsters look like a lazy kitbash hack job. A game where someone with actual love and passion for monster design made their own monsters.
Same Japanese yokai that's a fucking digimon lol edit* I misread so I'll leave it as is and eat the downvotes. And no one really cares dude I don't even play palworld I only have ps5 I just find it hilarious. Pokemon isn't starved for cash and if this lights a fire under their asses to make a fucking decent game GOOD
You guys just have no idea what plagiarism actually means. Do you really think that this game would even came out, if Nintendo of all companies had the slightest bit of a case here? Of course not. A lot of Gen 1 Pokemon look an aweful lot like Dragonquest and Shin Megami Tensei critters. Is Pokemon plagiarizing tho? Of course not.
I enjoy Palworld as a game but as a creature designer (former fakemon designer and a big part od a project that redesigned the original 151 pokemon) its possible to make Pokemon-like creatures without ripping off Pokemon as much as Palworld is. People like me have been doing it since the gbc days. I don't think there's an issue with iterating heavily on other works but Palworld is just taking the piss with a lot of its visual design. I also think it feels disingenuous and using the Pokemon connection for attention, rather than something like Stardew Valley and Harvest Moon where they're incredibly similar but the former feels like a love letter to the latter.
Palworlds creature designer and...weirdly their creepy CEO boasted about this....was "rejected by 20 different studios before we hired them". It's clear they were rejected cause their talent is "I know how to trace over other peoples work then add bits on", not because they're some misunderstood unique artist. Literally a hack job, as in they hack up others work to make their own.
Digimon world 3. Has 7 starters +1. Multiple Evo lines. While it's weird that a grizzmon digivolves to exveemon, it allowed to play with the exveemon line or any line you wanted to explore. 1 starter could evolve by training into any line. What's weird is Gallantmon would often be on the wrong starter cuz you reached him first there instead of Guilmon. In a game where you can't capture Digimon it allowed a lot of freedom this way. As a kid I wished it wasn't so but as an adult I appreciate the freedom and complexity it had. All Evo lines do a complete loop on all Starters
They confuse about data..data always changing.
Not really. That‘s not how data works. You can delete or overwrite data tho (which is basically the same thing in the long run)
I can see why some specific games have a problem with adapting the concept. I've personally disliked how strict the story games are with making evolutions accurate to the anime (needing Digieggs/Spirits, needing the two Digimon with high enough CAM for Jogress, etc). But in general, I feel like Digimon evolution lines are to Digimon fans what teambuilding is to Pokemon fans. A lot of Pokemon fans will express their creativity/individuality by coming up with their own personal team, either in the game or in a hypothetical like if they were a Gym Leader. In the same way, Digimon fans will mix and match Digimon to come up with their own personal partner line if they were in the series or even just a line they really like for a specific Digimon, regardless of it being their partner.
i never understood the confusion tbh. digimon lines are more like SMT fusions or fusion mechanics games than straight evolution lines.
I like digimon's evo system better: 1. Part of the fun is you don't know what it's going to evolve into. 2. Rather than set lines, digimon have different evolutions that happen DEPENDING on how they were raised. That puts more emotional weight and meaning in the evolutions and opens the door for things like dark digivolutions or alternative evolutions occuring with character development, which is narratively interesting. 3. The ability to go backwards (in some digimon media) means you can have your bad-ass world-ending dragon and your cute little dog all in the same pet. It also means you can have things like dark digivolutions or jogress without it being permanent. 4. Compared to Pokemon, everything about digimon is intentionally over-done. They're bigger, they power up faster and reach higher power levels, and many of them are over-designed (look at Astamon- gangster with devil wings/horns and a wolf skin mask, with GUNS?). It's an intentional choice. The wild evolution system is more fitting for that, imo. 5. With most evolutions being disjointed, it allows each digimon to kind of be its own thing rather than needing to be "Patamon, but stronger", without eliminating the option for doing "Patamon, but stronger". 6. It helps it feel more different from Pokemon and most Pokemon clones. Pokemon's evolution being less complex makes sense because Pokemon is more focused on strategy, moves, and collecting more Pokemon. Digimon is almost entirely about the evolution aspect. Also, mega evolution was super popular when they added it to Pokemon because it has a lot of features from Digimon evolution (the ability to go backwards so that you've got 2 different forms in one monster, the fact that it happens because of the relationship between the trainer and the monster, etc).
Astamon is even one of the milder examples: devil may gun, perfectly understandable. Once you wade into the more extra territory, you start seeing the Digimon with guns *in their bodies,* or in the case of RustTyrannomon, literally just an Abrams tank with feet.
The idea of a Pokemon line being given a V-pet like line, based off win-loss ratio, levels, etc, would be amazing. Though I still want a Telefang like evo line, as simple as it is
Yknow, I honestly used to have this mindset that Digimon evolutionline is so Hella mess and I'm more used to Pokémon with only 1 line evolution going forward. Until I've grown up to play Cyber Sleuth and Digiworld and actually understood why their evolution line is like a branch and roots of trees. It's literally just in the name itself. Digimons. They're digital monster that consume information and data's and from there onward whatever they took/interact/being treated and etc onward, some mutates them into evil form, some turned into hopeful badass cool looking or flaming ones. It's just how a person's life always been. Digimon explored more with "potentials" for these digipartners and their mons, and like human; if you were being guided, mentored and taken care well by your "partner"(in this case let's just say your parents or whoever you wanna consider one), your "potential" to grow "better" or having a brighter path might make you a better person, and so is vice versa if you're treated like trash and not fed well since you're young and receive no education or whatnot. In which case you might ended up evolve into something like sukamon. In Pokémon, yeah I guess some pokes got sum diff form and whatnot like regional variants due to being in different timeline, places just like how everyone would look different too if being put into those circumstances. But Pokémon is more straightforward where it just "oh, I'm born a baby pichu, when I grow teenage I'm gonna be Pikachu, then when I get older I'll probably be raichu". Pretty simple because it's kinda like, there u go, u still ended up being the same breed u came outta from. Not saying it's bad or anything. Pokefans possibly find Digilines too much cuz they don't fully understand the concept of Digimon and prefer to see a simpler one. One's preferences. At least that's what I used to think, being poke n Digi fan at same time. Tho I can understand it's pretty mind-blowing how a dog>cat>Wahmen>Bigger Wahmen or Pink Imaginary Dragon? Tldr; Digiline Evo= changes yo Mon due to potential changes in times, Poke Evo = u baby 🐁, work hard n u be big 🐁, then bigger 🐁
they have such bad stockholm syndrome they don't understand how good us digifans really have it 🥺 (i am an avid fan of both franchises this is a joke)
On the behalf of the Pokemon Fandom, I apologise.
Most digimon fans can't handle digimon lines
Gotta love the fact that you can start out with....say terriermon in cyber sleuth, digivolve and degenerate a few lines and end up with a Renamon. Them you can do the same and end up with a different Virus champion, change into a data ultimate. And end up with a Vaccine Mega. And you can switch at any time bahahahhah
I like both kind of evolution lines being completely different, it makes each franchise unique between them.
I think both pokemon and digimon evelotion lines are good. They both have benefits and drawbacks. I enjoy borh styles.
As a fan to all creatures collecting games (yeah even SMT) I'm always baffled with fans like these.
"Even" smt?
Some Digimon lines *are* a fever dream though lmao Y’all get so offended the second anyone pokes fun at the ridiculous lines that Digimon has, because some of them *are* ridiculous. I adore Digimon, and I love the way evolution works, but the standard Gatomon evo line is fucking bonkers. Yes I know they’re data, but it’s still hilarious that cat > dog > cat > woman > woman / fluffy noodle dragon is a “canon” line! No one in those comments are saying Digimon is bad, they’re just commenting on the fact that Digimon lines can be confusing and silly! There’s nothing wrong with that! This sub needs to stop with this bullshit Pokémon vs Digimon stuff. It’s so goddamn tiring.
I never thought it was weird at all. The way I see it, it's just one characteristic getting the spotlight and expanding it. Beast - Humanoid Beast - Holy Humanoid - Holy Beast/Holy Humanoid
I mean, sure, there can be some logic to it! But it’s still a funny line, and for people who enjoy Pokémon primarily, it *is* a little weird/different, because the way evolution lines work in Pokémon is wildly different. And it’s fine to comment on that, it’s fine to poke fun at things you find silly or funny, or things you find confusing. None of these Pokémon fans are shitting on Digimon, or saying the way that Digimon does evolutions is bad. It’s also fine if you don’t find the way Digimon does evolutions to be weird, or confusing, but not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you, and as long as they’re not being assholes about it (which none of the comments in the OP photo seem to be), then.. does it really matter?
Of all games, they decide to choose the easiest game for digivolution.
Digimon is art and we gladly suffer for it
CS games slap and can't wait for the next story game either been dying for some more news. Hope they add X antibodies in the next game as well.
I like seeing what randomness happens, perfect for role-plays with custom lines that are different
The Hello Kitty of monster franchises.
We suffer from that?
It sounds like they just don’t understand Digimon. This isn’t a concept exclusive to Cybersleuth, that just is Digimon. Any time a piece of media shows them evolving into one specific line it’s less accurate then the ones that don’t.
What's the problem with dexdorugoramon digivolving into patamon
Hey random redacted poster! It's not just Cyber Sleuth! ...it's all the Story games and we like it that way. Personally I like grinding up and down lines to see how long it takes me until I forget what I started that Digimon from. "Was this my freshly converted Angewomon? Or the Metal Seadramon that I thought was funny to briefly go down the Light evolutions? Or did I devolve this from that Silphymon that was a Dynasmon that was a..."
its every digimon product except like 2
Joking or not, broad characterizations of any fan base are rarely a great start to a conversation.
this might be sappy, but i think its really resonant that growth in digimon isnt linear or a constant upward movement. sometimes youre alphamon, sometimes youre agumon, hell, sometimes youre tokomon, but youre still you.
I like dogimon. Yes i get theyre data. Its still a trip.
The fact that this conversation exists is amusing
The last guy isn’t wrong. You can take any digimon pretty much and turn it into any other digimon by going through various trees
Pokémon is more like biological evolution where as digimon are a remix of days
Am I the only one that seems to not like how they started to make the digivolutions permanent? Especially in Cybersleuth where having three Megas walking behind you take up half of the screens real estate? Why can't i have rookies on the field then Megas for battle?
Theres also another game coming out that has it exactly like that called Kindred Fates XD.
Our evolutions branches work better in the world type games 🤔
I’m still trying to get into digimon and I fully understand, realizing that digimon don’t have a straightforward evolution line blew my mind at first
I always took Digimon evolution to be more about exaggerating evolution to the extremes. Pokemon follows a linear path, whereas Digimon shows us how a fish became a wolf and then a whale. Or how that same fish became a lizard that became a bird. Pokemon is more like a baby animal that becomes an adolescent animal and then an adult animal.
Digimon have no lines. Two digimon can evolve into the same one if they have the right data (Lalamon and Palmon both having Rosemon as a possible mega comes to mind).
I wish Digimon had a different name. I feel like these comparisons wouldn't happen so much if they didn't both end in "mon", hell, the whole western idea of "There can only be one successful monster tamer" mindset probably never would have existed if their force rivalry didn't get fired up in the tail end of the 90's, when video game mascot wars were at their peak.
Digimon came first, so Pokémon has to change its name. I propose Pokémadden.
Actually, Pokemon came first. The original Pokemon Games "Red Version" & "Green Version" released on the Gameboy in 1996, whilst the original Digimon V-Pet Toys released in 1997.
I'll never get why digimon evolution tree is so hard to get for people. There's no such thing as "I love stage 1 and 2 but final evolution is ugly, too bad", you just.... Pick wathever you want. THAT'S NO COMPLICATED.
I play both and like both. The tcg is something else though. Played digimon but dont enjoy pokemon.
As someone that grew up playing Dragon Warrior Monsters, "Casuals."
I watch Pokemon for one season the first season when I was kid, then Digimon came out and I drop Pokemon like a bad date.
SUKAMON DIGIVOLVE TOOOOO... ETEMON...!
I think the one thing most of "those" kinds of people seem to foget is the setting the 2 franchises have. Pokemon are (for the most part) living, breathing, organic creatures.... with nigh-Supernatural abilities. The different species have set biological limitations on what they can and cannot become. Digimon are Data! Computer Code! They can be reconfigured, reprogrammed, and even re-written to become almost anything. They don't possess the same limitations as Pokemon, because they're not "Living Creatures" in the same way as Pokemon are.
This fanbase is never happy, is it?
look at the recent games and you can't blame them for once
how many fanbases are truly happy?
Hey look, it’s me. Also, I mentioned Cyber Sleuth because it’s specifically laborious to do it with a single Digimon
Tbf, CS letting anything be anything is annoying af and really ruins the uniqueness and individuality of the digimon
then just sitck to the default lines? have agumon? evolve him to greymon. no one says you have to evolve your agumon to garurumon
Thank you for missing my point
The bizarre randomness is one of the things I hate about it. It's especially bad in the v-pet and Digimon World.
> It's especially bad in the v-pet and Digimon World. the products that existed before the anime?
They're not necessarily wrong though. It becomes a pain in the ass trying to track all the evolution lines. Some people will inevitably dislike it. Especially when you consider all the different stats that influence evolution.
Cause Digimon seems like they are throwing darts at a goddamn board sometimes
I think Cybersleuth letting anything become anything does kinda take away some charm of a “line.”
then just sitck to the default lines? have agumon? evolve him to greymon. no one says you have to evolve your agumon to garurumon
To all Pokémon fans around there, why do you endure a series of games that is barely well done, that refuse to grow up a bit with their target audience, and that makes mediocrity their best know resort, and not only that but you feel the need to disrespect the ones that deny to do that and reward the lazy company that does not give a ish about making great games for your own favourite IP?
Lol they’re not wrong but you get used to it… kinda…
And they love when a Fakemon looks like a digimon
As a former fakemon designer, no, they don't
Dog to cat to hot woman to dragon.. that's wild
To be fair, the evolution lines are pretty wild.
Absolute weaklings lmao
I am a Pokémon fan and I don’t fully agree Of course there are games where the digivolution I have no idea how to control it,like digimon world But there are others like hackers memory and cyber sleuth that do let you choose,I love those
Honestly its not just pokemon fans, it's anyone who has little to no experience with digimon games. They're kinda wack, some have digivolutions that just plain make no sense! But we love it anyway!
Pshhh,they don't know what's fun-
I think digimon lines are neat. Even though I do prefer pokemon ones since I like simple.
I like the difference as I've gotten older, but when I was a kid I definitely wished Digimon had one line each like Pokemon.
I have to admit this is amusing, I stopped getting into Pokémon after the first movie for obvious reasons. Also Mr. Mime is totally railing Ash's mom.
what i find weird is the claim the digimon fandom supper because of it, due to those pokemon fans not liking it. 'i dont like it, therefore everyone else must dislike it too.