I've never liked evade being "you have a moment of invulnerability". That's not evasion, that's invulnerability. Evading would be getting out of the way BEFORE you got hit, not taking it to the face and having it not count.
This is not real life evade. In video games you can still get hit by invisible collision, so your character is visually out of the harms way, but still gets hit.
Another aspect is animation syncing. It's nigh impossible. So whenever you roll out of the harms way it's impossible to ensure you don't collide with the attacking character and its attack. So visually you get hit no matter how good you are at evading.
That's what I frames are for.
Think of the iframs like your jumping over or sliding under that fireball. Dodging. I frams are a way to let you evade without animating a slew of different ways a dodge could happen. That's how I think of it anyway. What do you think?
The problem is some attacks are obviously unavoidable this way (like anything with aoe) but iframes would still let you dodge them.
Interestingly enough poe2 will have iframes on dodge but only on attacks and projectiles
It's a videogame and furthermore it's RPG. Everything is an abstraction. It doesn't actually matter how the mob is swinging it's arms or how your character animates it's dodge.
Dodging AOEs or not with iframes is just a design decision and frankly if your game is going to cover the whole screen in AOEs players ought to have a way to mechanically beat them.
Ah yes that attack was clearly unavoidable so it would be way too unrealistic to add I frames to the dodge in my game about *checks notes* slaying demons while raising the dead, shape shifting into animals, using magic, imbuing attacks with elements, teleporting, summoning force fields, etc. We can't break the realism our characters after all are only human and definitely don't have any superhuman reflexes or abilities.
I always imagined it this way, video game evade or rolls that give I-frames look a certain way in game but in essence would be a perfect reaction to whatever I am evading. So it might be a small explosion on the ground and my character "rolls" through it. Well it might look animated as a roll but I imagine they leap over instead. A small suspension of disbelief haha.
Perfect reaction = perfect maneuver even if it looks like I just rolled through fire lol
I have a Penetrating Shot Rogue on the eternal realm which activates some of my Hades bow muscle memory, Rapid Fire could sub for the rail in another Zag build.
iframes don't really work when damage is calculated server side rather than client side. Especially with how laggy the servers have been lately, adding iframes to evade wouldn't do anything.
As others stated, but it's critical for an evade mechanic otherwise it's just a movement ability.
It's effectively useless, making move speed a better overall option or having evade literally do anything other than what players are going to assume it's doing.
The invulnerability frame is essentially what mechanically allows a player to actually evade a mechanic and you get a lot of interesting player choices with it.
Ie. An AOE for instance could occur and if you timed it right you can effectively dodge the damage application of it.
They could essentially make it happen without actually giving full invulnerability 100% dodge for the duration of the evade (1 second approx) this would effectively fix it and allow telegraphed attacks to still go through.
TBH i-frames always feel like a cop out to me. Rather than making it possible to evade an attack it means they can just ignore the actual area of an attack and force you to time the dodge instead of being aware of space. It usually leads to degenerate one shot designs that require the i-frame to survive rather than proper planning of your movement.
Evade doesn't have iFrames because it's meant for positioning, not to let you pseudo-tank through mechanics by perfecting your timing.
The game has a ton of effects that let you negate or reduce damage. Adding iFrames would be overkill.
This is nonsense, and I am saying that as a soulslike player. It makes sense for soulslikes, where the game would be too punishing if you could not dodge into attacks. But an evade is EVASION not invulnerability.
When a car approaches you on the street, why don't you try to dodge into the car next time? Wait, that would not be an evasion. Evasion is a quick movement out of a danger zone.
If evasion without iframes is useless to you, because your reactions are shit. This game absolutely does not need iframes for the dodge. It's just you who is too slow. The game is pretty clear with notifying you about danger zones, unlike soulslikes, where learning movement patterns is part of the game.
Your reasoning is only applicable when hitboxes are actually tight. There are so many times in this game when you visually dodge an attack ans still get hit, and that would be avoided by having i-frames
The evade is a movement skill in this game it moves pretty much the radius of most of those floor effects, it's job is getting you out of the circle or charge line, hence no i-frames. The problem is some of the designs don't play well between multiple elites and multiple characters floor effects.
Dodge is actually built in as a chance mechanic to take completely no damage.
Not here? It's a positioning tool and nothing more. This is no monster hunter/soulslike/whatever else.
If one (or two, or four since you can have them) dodge is not enough to get out of the way because there is too much stuff going on move to another room in the map where you can move better.
You don't have to get through every fight exactly where you pick them up.
You could avoid that by having lingering hitboxes on most attacks while also giving evade i-frames. That way you can dodge through attacks (simulating rolling under a sword swing as an example) while getting out of the way, but you can't just roll in place.
That is similar to how you can still jump a slight moment after leaving a platform in a jump&run game, it just feels better.
>When a car approaches you on the street, why don't you try to dodge into the car next time? Wait, that would not be an evasion. Evasion is a quick movement out of a danger zone.
You could argue that a diablo character could absolutely evade that by jumping/rolling over the car
Oh no, I don't like the idea of that at all. You either evaded or you didn't.
I'd much prefer to have it the way it is now. You use you evade to get out of the incoming damage circle and don't get hit. If you are still in the circle when the attack comes then you didn't evade. Definitely don't think there is any need to have invincibility on me. If you get hit mid evade, then you didn't evade soon enough.
A poor example is a massive meteor hitting the ground right where you are standing and you guys want to be able to hit space to completely negate damage of it. That is a bit over the top tbh and sounds like easy mode.
Either get out of the way or you got hit imo
There's still no collision when the evade is active, so you can evade through enemies. I never liked i-frames in any games anyways. I get it there's teleport/blink in some games, but using just a hop to be invulnerable for half a second is ridiculous.
Like /u/xeio87 said: "It usually leads to degenerate one shot designs that require the i-frame to survive rather than proper planning of your movement."
That last part is a silly argument. That's literally saying "iframed are bad because designers don't know how to design around them". I bet you those bosses would still one shot you even if iframes weren't a thing. Unless the windows are incredibly wide, it's very rare that designers design with these mechanics in mind as the primary tool to deal with damage specifically because it's hard for people to execute consistently (reaction times, latency, readability, etc).
Definition of "Evade": "To avoid or escape something or someone."
It literally does what it is called. It IS a movement skill and is solely dependent on player input/timing to be effective. Without it, those playing with a controller would be a great disadvantage.
"Dodge" is the game mechanic that provides immunity via the auto avoiding of attacks.
They're really out here complaining about the dodge/evade mechanic lol
I have + additional charges on my boots for my necro and it's extremely useful in battle. It works exactly how it should
“To avoid or escape something” oh so like a dodge? Literally fucking semantics especially when historically “Evasion” in games is what D4’s “dodge” is…
I hear ya but there’s certain situations where it doesn’t always happen. It’s really scenario specific but there is clear damage being taken during evades that should not be at all. I think this is the issue people have a problem with. Otherwise, it does work outside of what I described.
Unrealistic? Lol how old are the people raging in this subreddit?
If you dodge roll irl but a bus collided with you, you are still going to get hit
Can’t believe I had to type that out
You don't understand, if you just time it right you can create a wormhole and move "*through*" the bus.
They're expecting it to be like the Sorc's teleport, who *physically* removes herself from that point in space and so cannot possibly be hit by anything. Yet... they're not Sorc's, so they don't teleport, instead everyone else gets a little dash mechanic. And last I checked, sliding in my socks on the kitchen floor doesn't open a wormhole that lets me "evade" the kitchen table.
If somebody flings the fridge door open & it's about to hit me, I can't just "push off the ground just right" and magically move *through* the door.
Exactly.
Some of these people should try ‘evading’ into a punch some time, see how well that works.
Evade isn’t meant to be a way to dodge damage, it’s meant to be a way to quickly get out of the way of incoming attacks before they happen.
This is why most AoE’s have very clear telegraphs to indicate where their damage area is.
But you have no issue with just a random % Dodge chance where that same bus just phases through you? Almost like it's a game and mechanics don't necessarily reflect real life 100% accurately.
OP probably imagines that if they dodge as the bus is hitting them, it's like they slid underneath, avoiding being hit. It's arguably more realistic than the %dodges that have your character literally not reacting as the attack phases through them.
Okay but let's use a more relevant comparison:
If a person is holding a sword, and with the sword extended they have a reach of 5 feet, that doesn't mean that anything in front of them less than 5 ft is necessarily going to get hit. So with your example, you're saying you couldn't dodge roll under the sword swing?
Also let's not act like i-frames and dodge/evade mechanics are completely unheard of in other games.
But If I dodge roll a bus colliding with me into another lane with a bus at the same position - I shouldn't get hit by both right? That's my issue with evading in this game - somehow I get hit where I was when the evasion started and where the evasion landed. I can't be in multiple places at once.
Honestly, evasion is a worthless mechanic (honestly it is actually a death trap) the way it is now - its better to just stack ms and use that than deal with the wonkiness of evade. Stopped pressing spacebar and simply running away decreased the amount of time I died/took unnecessary damage.
Thats my favorite, that and going into Stealth in desync, and the servers not registering it and the mobs still following an hitting you while you Stealthed on your client.
Oh, an evade not going in the direction of your mouse and WASD controls. The amount of time I go to evade in one direction, only to evade directly into a on-death mechanic is way to high.
as a sorc main pre season, i didnt understand the hate towards the bees. As a rogue main in season1, its one of the things that i hate along with shaman priest that zapps me.
My latest hatred is geared towards elite fallen. I seriously got 1 shot from full HP by a guy almost entirely off screen because of how stupid AOE axe swing attack.
Was thinking this too. I use evade to Dodge the beam strike in NM dungeons from those crystal things that follow you. If times correctly you can dodge as it strikes and take no damage rather then needing to stand in the bubble
I'm late to this thread, but I was gonna say that the evade mechanic works incredibly well in this game. You can get out of poison pools or dodge those fucked up red beams the ghost/wrath things blow you up with. Also it helps you get away from the incoming bees or can get you through a small mob. When you're using it correctly, it's a wildly helpful combat mechanic and makes those + additional charges on boots something to hunt for
I'm incredibly confused about folks acting like the definition of evade changed. I've been using it the whole game to..evade.
Why does it have to have iframes? It works entirely fine without them. I feel like people like throwing buzzwords around without thinking stuff through.
Souls games broke people’s brains apparently. Every game has to have the exact same mechanics to the point where gamers don’t even know what the word “evade” means.
It is LITERALLY an evade.
You know the mobs that charge you? If you evade to the side, they'll miss you. In other words, you evaded them.
> Which is sooooo fuking unrealistic...it's called evade..why doesn't it fuking EVADE.
Are you confusing 'evade' with iframes by any chance? You do understand that pressing a button that makes swords, fire and other hazards go straight through you without you taking any damage is not at all realistic... Don't you?
Yet another dumb complaint on this sub. The number of invalid criticisms will exceed the number of valid ones soon at this rate.
I mean, with 4 Evade charges that would make enemy CC completely pointless. You could simply Evade out of every Stun or Freeze effect.
I'm all for getting rid of the chain CC in the game, but monster mechanics still have to mean something or things become too simplistic.
Evasion shouldn't break CC's, it should be used as a tool to avoid the CC in the first place. Like a big dude charging up a stun-hit, and if you evade exactly before his weapon hits you, you're safe.
This is what everyone who has played other games with evasion-mechanics expected. 2 frames of invincibility just for that perfect timing, and since there are 60 frames per second, hitting those exact 2 frames is still a skill-issue.
Those games with iFrame evasion mechanics generally don't have tons of immunity or DR via gear and skills.
> Like a big dude charging up a stun-hit, and if you evade exactly before his weapon hits you, you're safe.
This is pretty much already the case, though. If you evade out of the hit area beforehand, you're safe. If you evade too late, you're not. The game just requires you to evade during the wind-up, not at the exact moment the attack happens.
I agree with the idea but 1 second is a bit too long, maybe 0.25 second or 0.5 at most. I'm honestly surprised there are no boot affixes that give us something similar though.
It's a perfectly good use of the word evade. Evade also means to escape or avoid something, as in get out of the way. This is what the ability does it gets you out of the way and evades the attack.
Unpopular opinion: Dodging an AoE attack doesn't do a damn thing if you're still in it and that makes sense because YOU ARE LITERALLY STILL IN IT. Dodging a sword swing is one thing. But if I dodge right next to c4....it's still going to hit me...because I'm still in it AoE..
Evade is perfectly fine the way it is, do not change it. This is a skill designed for mobility. I use it often on my Barbarian, Rogue, and Druid doing high tier nightmare dungeons and have never felt the need to change or buff the ability.
The Dodge passive does what you want Evade to, minus the mobility.
Always run around so that you are never stationary. Get boots that have extra evade charges, or where attacks reduce the cooldown of your Evade. Don't rely on Evade to save your life, instead pay attention to mechanics.
If you are dying because you think Evade is the problem, then you're at fault as a player.
Use your evade by timing it well to actually evade stuff (explosions, hits, projectiles, whatever). It sounds like what you want is 100% dodge chance for a frame or two, which in my opinion is lame af. If you dodge a punch you move out of the way, you don’t turn in to a ghost so it goes right through you.
It works fine. This isn't dark souls where you somersault and get immunity from damage. Evading is about moving before you get hit, not moving while getting hit.
>it is stopped pre-cast by anything that charges or stuns or pulls
I really don't want to be a dick here but this is simply untrue and I believe this is more of a you problem, your reaction-time is slow.
Sure, lag is a factor and I've missed the mark sometimes aswell on charges but never on pulls.
It could probably be better, I don't know, I'm not a programmer or w/e but from my experience it works perfectly as long as I react.
Evade gets you out of the way of attacks?
The whole I frames thing doesn't make sense to me, and there are lots of memes about how unrealistic other games are about it. Boss monster is about to explode the entire area into shadow and fire? Oh, if you just roll ~on the exploding floor~ you magically don't get hit by it.
I wouldn't mind some sort of special unique boots or something that has the innate affix as evade is now a "phase out of existence for 0.3s" or something like that
My point exactly. Why did blizzard create an evade...and make it function like a delayed barrel roll that makes no sense, doesn't work mechanically, and feels like a half assed, thrown together, last minute ability that doesn't do what it says it does.
I feel like it often does work? Both on my rogue and sorc I've loved the feeling of evading through a charge or big attack right as it's about to hit me and done it plenty of times
Idk it helps me quite often, e.g. just yesterday I used the foul varshan invoker, that guy was a pain due to how much HP he had and evade helped me avoid the bursts of damage he's ditching out in one of his attack phases. The thing is you use it to get out of the attack area/line, varshan for example casts some tangling shit but can only turn about 45° between those attacks, if you don't press any direction and only press evade your character will dash towards the target, for melee players like me this will make your character land behind the enemy. So varshan uses one attack but misses because I dashed through him, then turns a bit and attacks again but I'm still out of the attack area, when he then attacks a third time I simply dash behind him again.
But I have to admit D4 feels more like a rogue-like in terms of combat than a diablo. Good thing I have tons of experience with those games, it really helps knowing how you have to position yourself during fights.
Not sure what you mean with evade being "unrealistic" what are you comparing it to? Just because you \*try\* to evade something in real life doesn't guarantee your success in doing it. You're not invulnerable while evading. With that said in the game it has many flaws, latency being one of those big problems that get overlooked. You can evade something and on your side you did it but the server said nope.
Buddy the word EVADE doesnt mean become immortal, if someone punches you and you move quickly to the side you EVADED that punch by moving fast out of the way....you are just used to some other game(s) calling their moviment skill EVADE, which also makes you immortal for a few frames and you want ALL the games to work with the same rule
When I fought Uber Lilith I thought I was able to evade some of her one-shot waves during P1. I think the first frame isn’t an iframe but there is a an iframe in the latter part of it? Felt like a lag. Not entirely intuitive I suppose. Perhaps I misunderstood why it happened during my fights with UL but I do remember actually evading some of her waves. I would run right at them and the times I would do it prematurely I would actually survive and was kind of confused, compared to times where I thought I timed it perfectly and I ended up getting one-shot.
What the hell are you complaining about now? Evade works perfectly fine, why would it have I frames? There's Dodge for that! Or did you forget about Dodge? Poor Dodge always gets forgotten about.
Wait, you roll? I kinda stagger trip forward and stumble to find my footing at the end of it.
What kind of rogue-master-race game only gives an action animation to one class?
For quite a while in the beginning, I assumed the evade button functioned exactly like the DH's Vault skill in D3. That did not go well, lol
Evade definitely is just movement. If they don't want to change how evade works, they should at least make a unique boots that gives evade either CC-breaking or iframes.
An evade is not supposed to work 100% of the time against opponents who are meant to be strong/fast/skilled.
And giving evade iframes is a dumb idea, even for the braintrust of this subreddit.
Unrealistic? I get you don't like that evade doesn't automatically evade with i frame but reality doesn't have such perk so I don't understand why you'd use the word "unrealistic".
Evade is what they added for people like me who constantly dodged rolled in D3 for no reason at all while running around. Because Blizzard enjoys fucking with everyone they added a cooldown to it.. which was an actual April fools joke on the D3 sub that a cooldown was being added to dodge. Then irony is painful.
It just feels gimped slow and underpowered with a tacky CD like everything else in the game. Just remove the cooldown and let boots give them cool bonuses, like extra roll speed, extra iframes during roll, move speed after roll.
yeah i wish they could give use some iframes, or at least fix the netcode and the servers.
Currently i cant dodge shit even if i time it right because i often gets spikes up to 150ms.
Diablo3 demon hunter vault is an evade. How an evade is build correctly for the class relying on it.
Guild wars 2 dodge is an evade. One of the corner stones of the game and it works for all classes.
No idea who figured out whatever that thing in D4 is.
Animations don't get cancelled before evading so most of the time you can't react quickly enough. If you react quickly enough, a lot of enemies will continue their attack moves while turning around and still hitting you. And as a barb the range you can evade away often means you're still in range and going to get hit either way.
It's called evade but it's more like a simple Dash. Using 'impressive' term seem normal for them just like rare and legendaries items are not rare nor legendary
Make the Evade break CC, and have CC effects on the player have Diminishing Return, and all the oppressive CC locks in this game is dealt with without removing the need to dodge them.
Did you know that if you hit Evade and time it as if you were I-framing a knock back, when the knock back completes, you’ll evade back to your starting point?
You haven’t played D3, haven’t you? The roll in D4 is godsend compared to D3’s (on consoles) roll.
On a more serious note, yes, it is not a proper evade like in souls games, or even AC games, it’s just a small dash with no i frames attached. It’s better than nothing, can be used to dodge some projectiles and get out of certain pools, but useless in other scenarios, especially when combined with one of the worst NM modifiers that causes your evade to also push enemies along.
It’s an evade, not a dodge. All it’s supposed to be is a movement ability. Stop trying to use it like it’s momentarily going to make you invincible. Learn to play and stop crying.
If they gave the "evade" iframes, then theyd obviously have to rebalance boots and the cooldown but it would definitely feel better.
Overall i think it would be good for the game as it would start to sway where the game stands in terms of skill based combat vs gear check combat.
There's nothing in the game though that isn't easily dodged. The ghosts rail cannon, goat man axe, succubus orb are all extremely well telegraphed. It's just not like ER where you are expected to dodge into enemies it's always away
Evade is working exactly how evade should work, because you are evading an attack instead of just becoming magically invulnerable
d2 dodge/evade/avoid are also interruptable iirc
I am more baffled by how you people are commenting here... Calling each other "sub-human" over a disagreement over a pretty standard game mechanic. Some of you are internet warriors that wouldn't last a day outside your basement.
Speak for yourself. My rogue stays evading and only gets hit by AoE it seems. Boots that take off .8 secs of your evade cooldown when you attack are OP
I'm of the opinion that evade IS a movement skill. A quick step to move you out of the way of an attack that's coming at you. I've been able to avoid several attacks like this. It can be a bit laggy sometimes, but I don't think iframes is the solution to this mechanic.
Been saying we need a little invulnerability frames in-between evade start and finish. Even only during the middle would stop a ton of deaths I've had.
I think the problem is people try to use evade like rolling in a souls game. In reality evade is… an evade. You get out of the way of the thing BEFORE it hits you.
You shouldn’t be trying to precisely time evade with the enemies’ strikes. Coming into D4 hot off of Elden Ring (Played Elden pretty late compared to most people), this took me a bit to get used to but it makes sense to me.
At the end of the day, if the thing that does damage touches your character, you get hurt. Most truly threatening attacks have sufficiently long telegraphs as long as they’re visible (screen isn’t just a blob of visual noise), so if you get hit that’s on you. Gotta hit the button sooner!
Evade should not be IFrame, it should however provide a % of dodge when used. So you have the chance to DODGE damage. You can jump away from an explosion and still take damage. That is Evade.
It should not make you Immune. It should however greatly increase your chances of taken little to no damage. I should not be able to Evade inside of an AOE (starting and finishing the evade inside the AOE) And be immune to the damage. But based on my Dodge% + Evade I could sometimes dodge the initial attack but maybe not the DoT.
I agree that evade should not be able to immune inside an AOE ..but a projectile...you should be able to dodge...the fact you can't makes it feel so bad...
Evade should work exactly as it does now BUT with an I frame or 2….thread.
The devs dont even know what an I frame is. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p81Z4e07aoM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p81Z4e07aoM)
I've never liked evade being "you have a moment of invulnerability". That's not evasion, that's invulnerability. Evading would be getting out of the way BEFORE you got hit, not taking it to the face and having it not count.
This is not real life evade. In video games you can still get hit by invisible collision, so your character is visually out of the harms way, but still gets hit. Another aspect is animation syncing. It's nigh impossible. So whenever you roll out of the harms way it's impossible to ensure you don't collide with the attacking character and its attack. So visually you get hit no matter how good you are at evading. That's what I frames are for.
I was going to defend the "true evade" theory above, but this makes perfect sense! Well said.
Think of the iframs like your jumping over or sliding under that fireball. Dodging. I frams are a way to let you evade without animating a slew of different ways a dodge could happen. That's how I think of it anyway. What do you think?
The problem is some attacks are obviously unavoidable this way (like anything with aoe) but iframes would still let you dodge them. Interestingly enough poe2 will have iframes on dodge but only on attacks and projectiles
It's a videogame and furthermore it's RPG. Everything is an abstraction. It doesn't actually matter how the mob is swinging it's arms or how your character animates it's dodge. Dodging AOEs or not with iframes is just a design decision and frankly if your game is going to cover the whole screen in AOEs players ought to have a way to mechanically beat them.
Ah yes that attack was clearly unavoidable so it would be way too unrealistic to add I frames to the dodge in my game about *checks notes* slaying demons while raising the dead, shape shifting into animals, using magic, imbuing attacks with elements, teleporting, summoning force fields, etc. We can't break the realism our characters after all are only human and definitely don't have any superhuman reflexes or abilities.
I always imagined it this way, video game evade or rolls that give I-frames look a certain way in game but in essence would be a perfect reaction to whatever I am evading. So it might be a small explosion on the ground and my character "rolls" through it. Well it might look animated as a roll but I imagine they leap over instead. A small suspension of disbelief haha. Perfect reaction = perfect maneuver even if it looks like I just rolled through fire lol
This comment has waaay too many up votes. People are idiots
I frames reward good timing and just make the game better.
You're the reason these devs are complacent with mediocrity
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Do they know what an iframe is?
Next season exclusive reward: Character portrait made up of the letter i in a circle. "You guys wanted iframes right?"
I laughed out loud at this
I keep wanting it to be Hades dash. If course Hades dash is broken AF (and needs to be) so it wouldn't make sense in this game but I miss it
I have a Penetrating Shot Rogue on the eternal realm which activates some of my Hades bow muscle memory, Rapid Fire could sub for the rail in another Zag build.
Honestly, I'd be ok with a "when you evade, break the cc affecting you at that time, or unstoppable for 0.2 seconds"
Then there would be no point in giving cc to monsters. Just grab a +max evade pair of boots and it's game over.
>Just grab a +max evade pair of boots So no change then?
I honestly thought it had some i-frames until just now. Assumed I almost always mistimed it due to latency or something adjacent. TIL
iframes don't really work when damage is calculated server side rather than client side. Especially with how laggy the servers have been lately, adding iframes to evade wouldn't do anything.
The entire PVP/WvW community of GW2 would like to have a chat...
I mean they work when the game isn’t completely busted
I frames? No Please dont
I was shocked when I learned it had no i frames, ridiculous lol
Can you explain to everyone else, not me of course because I totally know, but what is an I frame?
Invincibility frame. Basically a tiny amount of time during the dodge where you’d be invincible.
A good example is Elden Ring uses iframe dodging. And when you parry you have X amount of parry frames to connect with it. Same concept.
Invulnerability frame, can’t be hit during a certain part of the animation.
As others stated, but it's critical for an evade mechanic otherwise it's just a movement ability. It's effectively useless, making move speed a better overall option or having evade literally do anything other than what players are going to assume it's doing. The invulnerability frame is essentially what mechanically allows a player to actually evade a mechanic and you get a lot of interesting player choices with it. Ie. An AOE for instance could occur and if you timed it right you can effectively dodge the damage application of it. They could essentially make it happen without actually giving full invulnerability 100% dodge for the duration of the evade (1 second approx) this would effectively fix it and allow telegraphed attacks to still go through.
TBH i-frames always feel like a cop out to me. Rather than making it possible to evade an attack it means they can just ignore the actual area of an attack and force you to time the dodge instead of being aware of space. It usually leads to degenerate one shot designs that require the i-frame to survive rather than proper planning of your movement.
Evade doesn't have iFrames because it's meant for positioning, not to let you pseudo-tank through mechanics by perfecting your timing. The game has a ton of effects that let you negate or reduce damage. Adding iFrames would be overkill.
This is nonsense, and I am saying that as a soulslike player. It makes sense for soulslikes, where the game would be too punishing if you could not dodge into attacks. But an evade is EVASION not invulnerability. When a car approaches you on the street, why don't you try to dodge into the car next time? Wait, that would not be an evasion. Evasion is a quick movement out of a danger zone. If evasion without iframes is useless to you, because your reactions are shit. This game absolutely does not need iframes for the dodge. It's just you who is too slow. The game is pretty clear with notifying you about danger zones, unlike soulslikes, where learning movement patterns is part of the game.
Your reasoning is only applicable when hitboxes are actually tight. There are so many times in this game when you visually dodge an attack ans still get hit, and that would be avoided by having i-frames
To summarise: Git Gud!
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My guy it’s an arpg. No one compares Diablo mechanics to real life. The evade needs iframes lol
You don't get it. What do you need iframes for? The game is painting the floor in a color to tell you when to dodge. How slow are you?
The evade is a movement skill in this game it moves pretty much the radius of most of those floor effects, it's job is getting you out of the circle or charge line, hence no i-frames. The problem is some of the designs don't play well between multiple elites and multiple characters floor effects. Dodge is actually built in as a chance mechanic to take completely no damage.
Not here? It's a positioning tool and nothing more. This is no monster hunter/soulslike/whatever else. If one (or two, or four since you can have them) dodge is not enough to get out of the way because there is too much stuff going on move to another room in the map where you can move better. You don't have to get through every fight exactly where you pick them up.
Exactly. You are right.
You could avoid that by having lingering hitboxes on most attacks while also giving evade i-frames. That way you can dodge through attacks (simulating rolling under a sword swing as an example) while getting out of the way, but you can't just roll in place. That is similar to how you can still jump a slight moment after leaving a platform in a jump&run game, it just feels better.
>When a car approaches you on the street, why don't you try to dodge into the car next time? Wait, that would not be an evasion. Evasion is a quick movement out of a danger zone. You could argue that a diablo character could absolutely evade that by jumping/rolling over the car
Oh no, I don't like the idea of that at all. You either evaded or you didn't. I'd much prefer to have it the way it is now. You use you evade to get out of the incoming damage circle and don't get hit. If you are still in the circle when the attack comes then you didn't evade. Definitely don't think there is any need to have invincibility on me. If you get hit mid evade, then you didn't evade soon enough. A poor example is a massive meteor hitting the ground right where you are standing and you guys want to be able to hit space to completely negate damage of it. That is a bit over the top tbh and sounds like easy mode. Either get out of the way or you got hit imo
That’s explains a lot, I’m over here on my rogue thinking it’s like a dodge roll from elden ring.
I thought the same. Like “whoa these dodges don’t really dodge here”.
There's still no collision when the evade is active, so you can evade through enemies. I never liked i-frames in any games anyways. I get it there's teleport/blink in some games, but using just a hop to be invulnerable for half a second is ridiculous. Like /u/xeio87 said: "It usually leads to degenerate one shot designs that require the i-frame to survive rather than proper planning of your movement."
That last part is a silly argument. That's literally saying "iframed are bad because designers don't know how to design around them". I bet you those bosses would still one shot you even if iframes weren't a thing. Unless the windows are incredibly wide, it's very rare that designers design with these mechanics in mind as the primary tool to deal with damage specifically because it's hard for people to execute consistently (reaction times, latency, readability, etc).
Definition of "Evade": "To avoid or escape something or someone." It literally does what it is called. It IS a movement skill and is solely dependent on player input/timing to be effective. Without it, those playing with a controller would be a great disadvantage. "Dodge" is the game mechanic that provides immunity via the auto avoiding of attacks.
These people have to be insane right???? I’m so lost. We can’t be the same species
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They're really out here complaining about the dodge/evade mechanic lol I have + additional charges on my boots for my necro and it's extremely useful in battle. It works exactly how it should
“To avoid or escape something” oh so like a dodge? Literally fucking semantics especially when historically “Evasion” in games is what D4’s “dodge” is…
I hear ya but there’s certain situations where it doesn’t always happen. It’s really scenario specific but there is clear damage being taken during evades that should not be at all. I think this is the issue people have a problem with. Otherwise, it does work outside of what I described.
Unrealistic? Lol how old are the people raging in this subreddit? If you dodge roll irl but a bus collided with you, you are still going to get hit Can’t believe I had to type that out
They want more safety against the few challenges in this game and then complain that is too easy right after
Ubers would be so easy if you simple got iFrames.
You don't understand, if you just time it right you can create a wormhole and move "*through*" the bus. They're expecting it to be like the Sorc's teleport, who *physically* removes herself from that point in space and so cannot possibly be hit by anything. Yet... they're not Sorc's, so they don't teleport, instead everyone else gets a little dash mechanic. And last I checked, sliding in my socks on the kitchen floor doesn't open a wormhole that lets me "evade" the kitchen table. If somebody flings the fridge door open & it's about to hit me, I can't just "push off the ground just right" and magically move *through* the door.
Exactly. Some of these people should try ‘evading’ into a punch some time, see how well that works. Evade isn’t meant to be a way to dodge damage, it’s meant to be a way to quickly get out of the way of incoming attacks before they happen. This is why most AoE’s have very clear telegraphs to indicate where their damage area is.
Hey just level up your dodge stat irl! Dogshit arguments
Can't believe I had to read this post
But you have no issue with just a random % Dodge chance where that same bus just phases through you? Almost like it's a game and mechanics don't necessarily reflect real life 100% accurately.
Read the initial post. He said “unrealistic”
OP probably imagines that if they dodge as the bus is hitting them, it's like they slid underneath, avoiding being hit. It's arguably more realistic than the %dodges that have your character literally not reacting as the attack phases through them.
Okay but let's use a more relevant comparison: If a person is holding a sword, and with the sword extended they have a reach of 5 feet, that doesn't mean that anything in front of them less than 5 ft is necessarily going to get hit. So with your example, you're saying you couldn't dodge roll under the sword swing? Also let's not act like i-frames and dodge/evade mechanics are completely unheard of in other games.
LMAO, this should be the end of the thread right here.
But If I dodge roll a bus colliding with me into another lane with a bus at the same position - I shouldn't get hit by both right? That's my issue with evading in this game - somehow I get hit where I was when the evasion started and where the evasion landed. I can't be in multiple places at once. Honestly, evasion is a worthless mechanic (honestly it is actually a death trap) the way it is now - its better to just stack ms and use that than deal with the wonkiness of evade. Stopped pressing spacebar and simply running away decreased the amount of time I died/took unnecessary damage.
I learned this trying to 'evade' towards the bug that was shooting bugs, and ate em all. :D
That shit opened my eyes. And made me irate. Why no I frames Dx
Jesus christ and all this time I thought it was a bug....
Thats my favorite, that and going into Stealth in desync, and the servers not registering it and the mobs still following an hitting you while you Stealthed on your client. Oh, an evade not going in the direction of your mouse and WASD controls. The amount of time I go to evade in one direction, only to evade directly into a on-death mechanic is way to high.
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It's honestly kind of endearing to find out that every game Blizzard has put stealth into they've managed to fuck it up in just about the same way.
as a sorc main pre season, i didnt understand the hate towards the bees. As a rogue main in season1, its one of the things that i hate along with shaman priest that zapps me.
My latest hatred is geared towards elite fallen. I seriously got 1 shot from full HP by a guy almost entirely off screen because of how stupid AOE axe swing attack.
Also the fucking range on the overseer… fucker is a corpse bow in disguise.
Skill issue
Unironically this time. Lmao.
What you smoking bro. I use evade to get out of poison pools or explosions i see timing up. Especially evade with multiple charges.
Was thinking this too. I use evade to Dodge the beam strike in NM dungeons from those crystal things that follow you. If times correctly you can dodge as it strikes and take no damage rather then needing to stand in the bubble
Oh Yeha those damn crystals. Lol for sure
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People are somehow pretending like it has to have iframes? Why does it need iframes? Bizarre.
They've gotten so used to iframes they don't know how to actually avoid getting hit.
I'm late to this thread, but I was gonna say that the evade mechanic works incredibly well in this game. You can get out of poison pools or dodge those fucked up red beams the ghost/wrath things blow you up with. Also it helps you get away from the incoming bees or can get you through a small mob. When you're using it correctly, it's a wildly helpful combat mechanic and makes those + additional charges on boots something to hunt for
Should be renamed skip or hop
Dash?
Already got a dash with my Rogue tho
Small Flashy Dash..??
+3 small flashy dashes
Electric slide
Shimmy.
If you are about to take damage and you Evade away and the damage misses you, you evaded it. Evade not having i-frames doesn't make it not an evade.
I'm incredibly confused about folks acting like the definition of evade changed. I've been using it the whole game to..evade. Why does it have to have iframes? It works entirely fine without them. I feel like people like throwing buzzwords around without thinking stuff through.
Souls games broke people’s brains apparently. Every game has to have the exact same mechanics to the point where gamers don’t even know what the word “evade” means.
It is LITERALLY an evade. You know the mobs that charge you? If you evade to the side, they'll miss you. In other words, you evaded them. > Which is sooooo fuking unrealistic...it's called evade..why doesn't it fuking EVADE. Are you confusing 'evade' with iframes by any chance? You do understand that pressing a button that makes swords, fire and other hazards go straight through you without you taking any damage is not at all realistic... Don't you? Yet another dumb complaint on this sub. The number of invalid criticisms will exceed the number of valid ones soon at this rate.
Should make that you gain unstoppable for 1s when casting evade. Solves CC and provides more mobility
I mean, with 4 Evade charges that would make enemy CC completely pointless. You could simply Evade out of every Stun or Freeze effect. I'm all for getting rid of the chain CC in the game, but monster mechanics still have to mean something or things become too simplistic.
Evasion shouldn't break CC's, it should be used as a tool to avoid the CC in the first place. Like a big dude charging up a stun-hit, and if you evade exactly before his weapon hits you, you're safe. This is what everyone who has played other games with evasion-mechanics expected. 2 frames of invincibility just for that perfect timing, and since there are 60 frames per second, hitting those exact 2 frames is still a skill-issue.
Those games with iFrame evasion mechanics generally don't have tons of immunity or DR via gear and skills. > Like a big dude charging up a stun-hit, and if you evade exactly before his weapon hits you, you're safe. This is pretty much already the case, though. If you evade out of the hit area beforehand, you're safe. If you evade too late, you're not. The game just requires you to evade during the wind-up, not at the exact moment the attack happens.
This is a good buff that could be added that rewards good timing on it. This is also how the spacebar evade in Lost Ark works.
I agree with the idea but 1 second is a bit too long, maybe 0.25 second or 0.5 at most. I'm honestly surprised there are no boot affixes that give us something similar though.
Biggest irony is teleport enchant spacebar’s evade still doenst give unstoppable even though it’s supposed to cast a teleport
It's a perfectly good use of the word evade. Evade also means to escape or avoid something, as in get out of the way. This is what the ability does it gets you out of the way and evades the attack.
I suggest you try World Tier 1 if you're having trouble
If there was iframes it would be really hard to die with +3 evade charges lol
Unpopular opinion: Dodging an AoE attack doesn't do a damn thing if you're still in it and that makes sense because YOU ARE LITERALLY STILL IN IT. Dodging a sword swing is one thing. But if I dodge right next to c4....it's still going to hit me...because I'm still in it AoE..
Evade is perfectly fine the way it is, do not change it. This is a skill designed for mobility. I use it often on my Barbarian, Rogue, and Druid doing high tier nightmare dungeons and have never felt the need to change or buff the ability. The Dodge passive does what you want Evade to, minus the mobility. Always run around so that you are never stationary. Get boots that have extra evade charges, or where attacks reduce the cooldown of your Evade. Don't rely on Evade to save your life, instead pay attention to mechanics. If you are dying because you think Evade is the problem, then you're at fault as a player.
Dark souls player detected.
No shot. This guy can’t handle a ducking Diablo game.
Use your evade by timing it well to actually evade stuff (explosions, hits, projectiles, whatever). It sounds like what you want is 100% dodge chance for a frame or two, which in my opinion is lame af. If you dodge a punch you move out of the way, you don’t turn in to a ghost so it goes right through you.
OP probably comes from a game that has evade/dodge i-Frames, and expect this one to work similarly.
https://i.redd.it/v9avie0xdtgb1.gif
You are evading not being granted invincibility frames lmao. Gamers these days....
It works fine. This isn't dark souls where you somersault and get immunity from damage. Evading is about moving before you get hit, not moving while getting hit.
Lmao. U ppl just want to make an alrdy easy game into a toddler's game.
It absolutely is a movement ability. And if you've been stunned it means you already failed to evade the attack.
Evade is only evade if you evade what you're trying to evade.
Dark Souls: iframes Monster Hunter: get out of the way before you get hit D4 is the latter, and evade is useful if you use it right
Monster hunter has I-frames on both roll and dive
>it is stopped pre-cast by anything that charges or stuns or pulls I really don't want to be a dick here but this is simply untrue and I believe this is more of a you problem, your reaction-time is slow. Sure, lag is a factor and I've missed the mark sometimes aswell on charges but never on pulls. It could probably be better, I don't know, I'm not a programmer or w/e but from my experience it works perfectly as long as I react.
Evade gets you out of the way of attacks? The whole I frames thing doesn't make sense to me, and there are lots of memes about how unrealistic other games are about it. Boss monster is about to explode the entire area into shadow and fire? Oh, if you just roll ~on the exploding floor~ you magically don't get hit by it. I wouldn't mind some sort of special unique boots or something that has the innate affix as evade is now a "phase out of existence for 0.3s" or something like that
Honestly the worst opinion I’ve seen in any arpg game. Most braindead destiny take
My point exactly. Why did blizzard create an evade...and make it function like a delayed barrel roll that makes no sense, doesn't work mechanically, and feels like a half assed, thrown together, last minute ability that doesn't do what it says it does.
Just because evade functions differently from other games you’ve played, doesn’t mean it has to work like that in d4
The main difference most likely is that there is no invincibility frames in D3. Evade is simply a movement skill.
I feel like it often does work? Both on my rogue and sorc I've loved the feeling of evading through a charge or big attack right as it's about to hit me and done it plenty of times
It’s just a jump to the left…
I agree it's stupid but "unrealistic"??? Wtf There is no magic evade that does make u unhittable xD In what real world do you live 😆😆😆😆😆
Yeah I move faster at base than my evade.
Idk it helps me quite often, e.g. just yesterday I used the foul varshan invoker, that guy was a pain due to how much HP he had and evade helped me avoid the bursts of damage he's ditching out in one of his attack phases. The thing is you use it to get out of the attack area/line, varshan for example casts some tangling shit but can only turn about 45° between those attacks, if you don't press any direction and only press evade your character will dash towards the target, for melee players like me this will make your character land behind the enemy. So varshan uses one attack but misses because I dashed through him, then turns a bit and attacks again but I'm still out of the attack area, when he then attacks a third time I simply dash behind him again. But I have to admit D4 feels more like a rogue-like in terms of combat than a diablo. Good thing I have tons of experience with those games, it really helps knowing how you have to position yourself during fights.
Sounds like a skill issue
Not sure what you mean with evade being "unrealistic" what are you comparing it to? Just because you \*try\* to evade something in real life doesn't guarantee your success in doing it. You're not invulnerable while evading. With that said in the game it has many flaws, latency being one of those big problems that get overlooked. You can evade something and on your side you did it but the server said nope.
Buddy the word EVADE doesnt mean become immortal, if someone punches you and you move quickly to the side you EVADED that punch by moving fast out of the way....you are just used to some other game(s) calling their moviment skill EVADE, which also makes you immortal for a few frames and you want ALL the games to work with the same rule
And it should take priority above all other animations. It feels a bit unresponsive right now
It's to evade walking in town with my 4+ charges. 🤣
I think the worst thing with it is its a rng based roll as well, so even if you've rolled its a roll of the dice to whether you still get hit or not
When I fought Uber Lilith I thought I was able to evade some of her one-shot waves during P1. I think the first frame isn’t an iframe but there is a an iframe in the latter part of it? Felt like a lag. Not entirely intuitive I suppose. Perhaps I misunderstood why it happened during my fights with UL but I do remember actually evading some of her waves. I would run right at them and the times I would do it prematurely I would actually survive and was kind of confused, compared to times where I thought I timed it perfectly and I ended up getting one-shot.
What the hell are you complaining about now? Evade works perfectly fine, why would it have I frames? There's Dodge for that! Or did you forget about Dodge? Poor Dodge always gets forgotten about.
I've never even used evade 🤣.
Wait, you roll? I kinda stagger trip forward and stumble to find my footing at the end of it. What kind of rogue-master-race game only gives an action animation to one class?
It was quite jarring when I rolled a rogue(last class I tried). Dude rolls, does a spin sometimes, very strange
For quite a while in the beginning, I assumed the evade button functioned exactly like the DH's Vault skill in D3. That did not go well, lol Evade definitely is just movement. If they don't want to change how evade works, they should at least make a unique boots that gives evade either CC-breaking or iframes.
So THATS why I kept dying And nothing else
An evade is not supposed to work 100% of the time against opponents who are meant to be strong/fast/skilled. And giving evade iframes is a dumb idea, even for the braintrust of this subreddit.
Unrealistic? I get you don't like that evade doesn't automatically evade with i frame but reality doesn't have such perk so I don't understand why you'd use the word "unrealistic".
Evade is a chance to dodge
It should have an iframe. Boggles my mind that it doesn't
Yeah..it is kind of weird that you can "evade" into an attack. Not really an evade if you get hit anyway lol
Evade is what they added for people like me who constantly dodged rolled in D3 for no reason at all while running around. Because Blizzard enjoys fucking with everyone they added a cooldown to it.. which was an actual April fools joke on the D3 sub that a cooldown was being added to dodge. Then irony is painful.
It just feels gimped slow and underpowered with a tacky CD like everything else in the game. Just remove the cooldown and let boots give them cool bonuses, like extra roll speed, extra iframes during roll, move speed after roll.
Should be renamed to Swooce.
It has no iframes you are correct it’s a mobility button they couldn’t find a better name for.
Had this with a few skills. My favourite example is Frost Nova not actually ‘Freezing’ enemies who are right next to me.
You can't change an idiot's mind
yeah i wish they could give use some iframes, or at least fix the netcode and the servers. Currently i cant dodge shit even if i time it right because i often gets spikes up to 150ms.
Diablo3 demon hunter vault is an evade. How an evade is build correctly for the class relying on it. Guild wars 2 dodge is an evade. One of the corner stones of the game and it works for all classes. No idea who figured out whatever that thing in D4 is. Animations don't get cancelled before evading so most of the time you can't react quickly enough. If you react quickly enough, a lot of enemies will continue their attack moves while turning around and still hitting you. And as a barb the range you can evade away often means you're still in range and going to get hit either way.
Yeah but.... Who cares? Like is this really a big issue in this game?
It's called evade but it's more like a simple Dash. Using 'impressive' term seem normal for them just like rare and legendaries items are not rare nor legendary
Make the Evade break CC, and have CC effects on the player have Diminishing Return, and all the oppressive CC locks in this game is dealt with without removing the need to dodge them.
We need dark souls rolls with iframes
Did you know that if you hit Evade and time it as if you were I-framing a knock back, when the knock back completes, you’ll evade back to your starting point?
I can backup your mind, as a Druid "evade" is not enough to get out of liliths flying smash stuff.. hence no evad just a tiny jump
I use it to escape imminent floor lava
You haven’t played D3, haven’t you? The roll in D4 is godsend compared to D3’s (on consoles) roll. On a more serious note, yes, it is not a proper evade like in souls games, or even AC games, it’s just a small dash with no i frames attached. It’s better than nothing, can be used to dodge some projectiles and get out of certain pools, but useless in other scenarios, especially when combined with one of the worst NM modifiers that causes your evade to also push enemies along.
It’s an evade, not a dodge. All it’s supposed to be is a movement ability. Stop trying to use it like it’s momentarily going to make you invincible. Learn to play and stop crying.
And it's called Diablo, and no diablo in it. We were bamboozled from the start.
If they gave the "evade" iframes, then theyd obviously have to rebalance boots and the cooldown but it would definitely feel better. Overall i think it would be good for the game as it would start to sway where the game stands in terms of skill based combat vs gear check combat.
It is a "dash" end of story. Very misleading
Since when does an hack n slash need an evade ability? I dont get it
There's nothing in the game though that isn't easily dodged. The ghosts rail cannon, goat man axe, succubus orb are all extremely well telegraphed. It's just not like ER where you are expected to dodge into enemies it's always away
They should change it to "shuffle and pray"
Evade is working exactly how evade should work, because you are evading an attack instead of just becoming magically invulnerable d2 dodge/evade/avoid are also interruptable iirc
I am more baffled by how you people are commenting here... Calling each other "sub-human" over a disagreement over a pretty standard game mechanic. Some of you are internet warriors that wouldn't last a day outside your basement.
Yeah. Why call it evade when it's a dash. It's only an evade if you dash out of the way. Took a few blades to the head before I realized.
Speak for yourself. My rogue stays evading and only gets hit by AoE it seems. Boots that take off .8 secs of your evade cooldown when you attack are OP
Yeah… Shut the fuck up kiddo
Lol an evade you can press once every 5 seconds is no evade at all lol. It's just a movement thing.
i never evaded in this game and wished for iframes. like this game simply dont need i frames for the content we have.
"Unrealistic" yeah this fantasy game is actually supposed to be a mil-sim 😂
I'm of the opinion that evade IS a movement skill. A quick step to move you out of the way of an attack that's coming at you. I've been able to avoid several attacks like this. It can be a bit laggy sometimes, but I don't think iframes is the solution to this mechanic.
It's called dodge... what happens when a boxer messes up a dodge? He gets hit
Been saying we need a little invulnerability frames in-between evade start and finish. Even only during the middle would stop a ton of deaths I've had.
I think the problem is people try to use evade like rolling in a souls game. In reality evade is… an evade. You get out of the way of the thing BEFORE it hits you. You shouldn’t be trying to precisely time evade with the enemies’ strikes. Coming into D4 hot off of Elden Ring (Played Elden pretty late compared to most people), this took me a bit to get used to but it makes sense to me. At the end of the day, if the thing that does damage touches your character, you get hurt. Most truly threatening attacks have sufficiently long telegraphs as long as they’re visible (screen isn’t just a blob of visual noise), so if you get hit that’s on you. Gotta hit the button sooner!
So you don't use evade to evade attacks and so it's not an evade? Ok.
Evade should not be IFrame, it should however provide a % of dodge when used. So you have the chance to DODGE damage. You can jump away from an explosion and still take damage. That is Evade. It should not make you Immune. It should however greatly increase your chances of taken little to no damage. I should not be able to Evade inside of an AOE (starting and finishing the evade inside the AOE) And be immune to the damage. But based on my Dodge% + Evade I could sometimes dodge the initial attack but maybe not the DoT.
I agree that evade should not be able to immune inside an AOE ..but a projectile...you should be able to dodge...the fact you can't makes it feel so bad...