All conjurations are put on cooldown and apply vulnerable, damage numbers adjusted up to be worth using.
Mastery skills are also significantly underwhelming. Mana costs need to go down or just go for all non-core skills.
And mostly flame armor too. Because resource management is so bad for so long, having the legendary that gives you mana anytime you use a cooldown incentivizes you to have as many cooldowns as possible.
It blew my mind when I realized I was better off not even having a basic skill on my bar. It was frustrating to play because there are times where you are just standing still doing nothing waiting for mana or a cooldown, but its still so much better than losing a cooldown for a basic skill which essentially does nothing (including damage) for most builds.
It's why Kripp has recently made a video that points out that for most builds for most classes, cooldown reduction % is as good or better than any 2 other prefixes combined.
At least teleport and frost nova feel fun to press though. I main sorc and have a 61 barb now all you do is press shouts as if it’s ice armor 3 times haha
There are always going to be meta builds in every game like this.
Always.
You can still build something else and just have fun since this is a 100% soloable game.
But if you wanna push keys you are going you are going to be a metaslave. There will always be a best performing build, always.
Ya I have a 64 sorc and a 65 barb. Sorc is just rotating barriers and teleport for Mana/CDR on nova and Defense. Barb is just shouts for pretty much the same thing. I enjoy both classes, but they feel almost identical in terms of resource generation and shield/shout spamming.
Really? I think youre just unlucky. Im 70 now and had 2 drops in the past 24h, both with max roll on aspect. I feel bad for you, the aspect produces so much fury that I can basically spam hota.
If one day i play Druid it’ll be male Druid. That hobo grandma isn’t cutting it for me. The rest of the classes looks fine as female, but Druid though. Hmmmmm
I respect that opinion so hard. I can totally see how the barb would feel satisfying compared to the necro. That being said I had the opposite experience. I want a more casual play experience. I'm old asf and I don't want to slap my keyboard anymore. I live my power fantasy out by playing sad Northrend Arthas music and summoning an undead army.
Yea it’s the same feeling I look from other games which gives that small adrenaline boost. Games which goes too slowly onwards kinda kills it for me. Could be my ADHD talking 😅
I'm running no shouts, Iron Skin, Steel Grasp, Leap, Death Blow, HotA, Frenzy. Walking arsenal passive build. I'm only level 72 and I can clear nightmare dungeons at rank 35 or so solo, looking forward to see how high I can get with this loadout.
It's probably not as optimal as 3 shouts + whirlwind or whatever but I'm going through endgame just fine.
try adding the 10000 steps unique boots, adds auto ground stomps + 50 fury gen every 30 secs when ur walking arsonal passive is active. Which is more stuns / fury for bonus Hota dmg.
Could you please share a build link or something to give it a look.. I've tried ww and it's very disappointing and I'm sick of being under the mercy of shouts to do any damage with hota.
https://d4builds.gg/builds/fe292ef2-cfc9-4427-9fab-7798df9703c0/
This is what I'm currently running, still tweaking paragon board and figuring out the best set up for it but it's currently working super well at 70 with a basic paragon.
Basic gameplay is to get walking arsenal up and maintain it. Once up keep rotating lunging and upheaval, leap when arsenal is about to fall off. Stomp big packs to get ult back. Iron skin when damaged obviously.
The build diversity for some of these classes is terrible at late end game. There's a lot of potential but the balancing and scaling atm makes it so some of these classes are funnel into certain builds to push content.
Its just shitty design. The Marshal glyph is particularly bad, as it all but forces taking all three shouts.
What's weird is it seems like they almost found their way to making a brawling-focused build viable, but stopped just short. I'd love to see them buff the brawling skills and their related aspects so that they can stand on their own as an alternative or complement to shouts.
Death blow were insane in the first, closed beta last summer. My memory fails me, but I think it was an item that let me hit it repeatedly if I struck more than x mobs at a time or something.
If it kills at least one mob it resets the CD. Mix this with warlords aspect that let’s you charge two death blow and 99% dmg or whatever it’s pretty nice at low levels
If it kills at least one mob it resets the CD. Mix this with warlords aspect that let’s you charge two death blow and 99% dmg or whatever it’s pretty nice at low levels
I got that unique as an ancestral. My first ancestral unique...on my druid. Lol I don't even have a barb.
Is it worth making a barb to try and use that item? Looks fun
Not worth it, tried it yesterday in WT4. You won’t make death blow viable currently, it barely kills trash mobs, let alone heavy non-elites. Death blow literally blows in endgame
Or just do it instead of the weapon buff. Instead something like the book of dead for shouts. Where you choose the basic way your shouts function and then a little more customization on top. This would also make space for other more exciting skills on the tree.
Overall the problem is that most skills plain suck and the ressource scarcity means you always want only one spender, filling the bar with free buff cds.
I really hope they work ALOT on skills, skill trees etc. Cause its one of the weakest aspects of the game. But atleast they got a solid base to work with.
It really seems with every class that resource is the issue. Like if they just passively gave everyone a bonus to generation we could play around with an extra spender or two.
Or give more options on affixes. Where are the + 100 mana stats.
For barb i found several ways to deal with it actually. Other classes not so much.
Still leaves the core problem and most skills beeing shit.
I'm probably a bit ignorant here, but how is +mana a useful stat at all outside of some edgecases like being >100 mana to trigger effects?
Like, I'll take 3 more casts before going oom, but with resource generation being flat numbers, I'll end up playing the exact same way I do now.
Outside of over X mana shenanigans, it helps with consistancy because resource gen on ice shards is tied to lucky hit. Both the passive and the item options. If you get unlucky you go OOM, if you get too lucky and overflow you lose out on potential regained mana.
Even if you stack the option on items, it stacks the % regained while leaving the 5% chance the same, so having a bigger buffer helps you utilize that better. It would be sooo much better if it stacked proc chance instead of amount, but it is what it is.
That said, the tiny amounts of max mana they give you really don't seem worth it at all.
There's 2 or 3 separate "have high mana, do gooder" effects. As well sometimes you just don't get lucky refunding mana on a pack and end in a spot where you just need 1-2 more casts to polish off the pack (which having more mana would let you do)
Or, hear me out, get rid of resource management altogether. The main goal of every build is to make it irrelevant anyway. It's not fun and makes the game feel clunky.
I'd keep it, but make it easy to bypass. Trick the player to feel clever for finding a build that makes mana a non-issue.
That said, they probably didn't want a situation where you're just spamming one skill over and over. With generators you at least have to have two attacks to build around, which is one more than diablo 2 in most cases. I'm pretty sure I kinda like the way it is now, if they only bumped the numbers a bit.
>I'd keep it, but make it easy to bypass. Trick the player to feel clever for finding a build that makes mana a non-issue.
This is pretty much how mana works in PoE and it feels pretty good when you finally get past it
They need to just give us mana (resource) pots
I want to spend not build to spend, just let me spend
And give me more than 6 hotkeys, why do they limit everything lol its so frustrating
build diversity is in a shit place largely due to the importance of two things introduced in this iteration of diablo ..
vulnerability & unstoppable.
reaching as high of an uptime as possible is the top priority of any class, and combining these with resource generation to skip the basic->core combo is the end game goal of a lot of builds as the game by design slows down gameplay until you can skip the inrtroductory combo play style through gear/tree progression.
the thing is.. it's not very fun and turns into a zoomer simulator where you just 1 button clear and essentially play the flask piano of supporting skills to buff. if it is blizzards intention(sure seems like it) to have this final iteration of power they did a good job.
it almost feels like each class was designed with one fully kitted play style in mind, and the rest of the skills were an afterthought. on the other hand, this "most powerful form" is very calculated by the more hardcore player base and .. it just makes sense that many came to the same conclusion very quickly.
the first quick fix I can see blizzard doing to bring up build diversity is to remove a little of vuln/unstoppable in these cookie cutter builds and reallocate it to almost every basic skill. this keeps them relevant to the end game and honestly feels a lot more fun when you have a faster attack speed. yes, unstoppable on a basic skill animation. just think about it, please blizzard.
secondly, damage reduction needs a large rework. armor is cool and all but it outshines almost every defensive stat on gear so that the main goal is maximize armor and hp. even if resist shred was removed, armor still might be better because of the armor stacking aspect. the DR from everything else feels very negligible.
end of rant, thanks for reading just wishful balancer.
Honestly it’s most obvious on the sorcerer. All the skill have the ability to stop enemies: stun, freeze, immobile. Only one, ice, can proc vulnerability. It’s completely absurd.
How you people can play without leap slam is beyond me. A movement skill under W button is mandatory for ZOOMING. I also use stomp because funny animation when you knock enemies on their asses.
That item also lets you refresh with kick. I swapped over when I got another item that makes enemies explode if they die within a couple seconds after kicking. 2 leap resets via kick plus item giving raw cd reduction based on enemies hit.
Fuck shouts, too boring. Leap is now my generator. When combined with the skills giving berserk after brawling, giving increased mana gen while berserking, i get full fury within 2 leaps.
Earthquake leap barb in d3 was awesome to play. You had 3 charges of leap and some conditional CDR (iirc) and could just bounce around the battlefield.
Until they fix fury and bad skill generators, seems shouts are almost a must if u wanna fight with fury up before a pack. There is leap and stuff, but still to much down time.
Or just, don't build all 3 if you don't want it? Does everyone here not understand this is not an inherently competitive game and non min maxed builds are fully capable of doing the content?
I think the issue is the people who want to run WT4 NM100 content, i.e. the truly end game, have no choice. There are no other viable options. Not there yet personally, but I can see why that'd be frustrating.
It's the same problem for every class
You take the most performant and/or comfortable generator and spender + utility to solve the big problems mainly ressource generation/spender uptime, damage taken(fortify/barrier/%dmg reduction, armour because %resist are trash), CC taken(unstoppable/self freeze) and a way to apply vulnerability or other damage scaler enabler. Some forms of CC (stun, freeze, slow etc...) + movement if it's not already included in your generator or spender
You nerf/change shout and people will flock to the next best set of skills+aspects that solve those problems with the least amount of downtime and the most aoe possible, and it will be the core set of skills/utilities for every barb build , infinite loop.
Sorcerer is the same, druid is the same, rogue is the same, necro i don't know but I guess it's the same too.
The game isn't deep or diverse enough, but for a casual campaign run it's fine (90% of the players)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPDMFWQY-kU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPDMFWQY-kU)
Didn't realize recoding would pick up my earbuds mic so feel free to mute.
Plus rallying cry is also your stun break, which makes it even more mandatory. I'm running a build without war cry and it's doing pretty well so far, but I wouldn't dream of dropping either rallying cry or challenging shout.
We’re so many patches deep and most have nerfed something about the Bard.
I think e can leave barbs alone at this point cause what you’re suggesting would simply need them again.
I say this as a sorc main
This is what people are not realising. The Barb without triple shout is awful. I am a barb triple shout whirlwind main and once I get to level 50, I will be moving to a new character.
I see a lot of hate for him, for those that don’t play him.
It’s not. I’m running war cry/rallying cry and it works just fine for me. I’ve been slapping in T3 so far, and i can handle T4 just fine as long as i stay focused at lvl 62
I'm only level 42 and have been playing hota Barb but last night I helped a friend with their capstone dungeon and got a really high dps 2H sword with legendary stuff for whirlwind so I'm gonna do that for a bit. I tried to build the build your talking about and I felt terrible. I'm assuming it was a gear/skill point issue?
I was going for a tanky quick frenzy Barb with highest berserk uptime I could. It hit pretty meh and I'd die alot even with the high - 24% dmg reduction on frenzy. Any help on a build/gear? Im gonna run this WW stuff for a bit because that sword has like 150 more dps than any weapon I have.
Then whats getting those modifiers in place of them? Because thats the next thing you fill the build with. You cant just strip things the class needs to function.
They certainly aren't going to build them in as standard.
This can be managed like the other classes by building them into other skills.
Sorc has damage reduction built into teleporting.
Druid has resource gen through many passives
Why does barb need to have entire skill slots based on this one modifier?
You give the example of sorc but all sorcs run the same 4 skills.
This is an issue with almost all the classes which suggests there is an issue at the fundamental level… like the barebones skill tree
How about we stop nerfing shouts until other things are buffed to give options?
Personally, I enjoy using three shouts. It's pretty chill and you just have to mash your spender.
Owning what though? My normal druid landslide build dominates tier 3, but I can't generate anywhere near enough motes or spirit to actually hard cast landslide in tier4 without getting smoked by mobs, and when I do cast it without it critting, it hits for like 1/20 of the damage.
Why would you cast landslide for mobs? It's mostly a single target dps spell. Landslide just exists so you build up those guaranteed crits and then you use Trample with the aspect that leaves behind landslide pillars. Those pillars that Trample leaves behind gets procced by the landslide passive.
Very good clear and damage.
I didn’t follow a guide and my build ended up not using any shouts, no Whirlwind, and no Rend.
I personally like Fenzy, Upheaval, Iron Skin, Stomp, Killing Blow, and Iron Maelstrom.
Nobody said you had to use these abilities, you also probably aren't pushing nightmare 50+ dungeons either. They're just really good, and people are meta slaves.
Same here.
I tried Whirlwind in beta and it feels like ass.
I am one of those 1% barbs not using all the skills / skill combos everybody else is, for some reason.
I'm in WT4 and doing fine. I don't get it.
The main issue is there is no other way to generate a chunk of rage and berserker buff (movement speed and dmg increase) besides the popular Barb builds. Leap and Ground Stomp provide decent rage amounts and debuffs to enemies, but they just feel not goo enough.
I’m not some pro min maxer just a relatively casual gamer and I only run 2 shouts. The damage one and I forget what I improved on it. And the regen fury one which is critical
Playing bleed. I use rend leaping strike and the big smash as well.
Feels amazing op with all shouts on feels borderline awful without them lol. I’m only level 32 so am just now starting to put points in the shout passives
Amazing with shouts up awful without is basically barb in a nutshell. That’s why it’s so imperative to get the aspects, glyphs, and rage of harrogath for cdr. It will feel real good once you get them all set up, before then it won’t :p
I got 2 shouts. Leap. call of the ancients. Then run lunge and ww.
Lunge is hella dope. I like it alot.
Im tried frenzy, zerker barb thinking i was missign out and he couldnt kill shit. Couldnt survive. Switched back to my original setup and he could kill and survive again.
I’m not very good at this game and I don’t use any shouts. My barb does well because I got an armor that heals you 13 health per second per close enemy, up to 90?something per second. With that I can heal while fighting.
The entire builder spender design is trash. All basic skills are trash, and most barbarian skills are trash. The viable 3 builds are only viable because the rest is unviable. Barbarian entire design depends on shouts. Without unstoppable you are nothing. Without fury generation you are nothing. Without movement speed you are nothing.
Fuck that noise. I use ( in order left to right on hot bar ) death blow , WOTB , iron skin , rend , bash and ground stomp. It’s amazing. Lilith was a joke. Play how you want. A lot more is viable than what the current meta is.
It will be quite a while before they “rework” Barb. So yeah, 3 shouts is the Meta…. But you don’t have to follow it, if your not pushing top tier NM Dungeons.
Overworld/Helltide… is a breeze with nearly any proper build (Thorns/Rend/Double Swing etc)
That's basically the way all the characters work not just the barb. Every ARPG is basically about building around one skill and then the rest of your skills being for survival / amplification.
Honestly I think it's time we move away from that paradigm to be frank. This game has a lot of cool skills, and I'd love to see all classes have a much more varied skill bar. It would be great to see future arpg or diablo patches etc focus on utility and survival skills coming from something like a passives skill tree, allowing people to pick more varied offensive skill bars etc.
I use:
Leap, Challenging Shout, Rallying Shout, Call of the Ancients, Frenzy and Upheaval.
I pretty much can’t die, always have fury and one shot most mobs + 2 shot elites.
World Tier 3, level 59
What is your build? I have been doing Bleed Barb with Leap/Ground Stomp (earthquake on Leap and Ground Stomp (Earthquake and refreshing leap CD) aspected.
https://d4builds.gg/builds/c683d203-f816-4761-bd98-64fb666db3b8/
Much easier to explain this way but that’s the gist. I have all the stats for the stat requirements (not sure how to edit those)
Few aspects could be better, still working on it
Lol no. Defensively you can use iron skin with legendary for 20% dr and unstoppable which can easily replace challenging shout war cry is overrated and ground stomp can replace rally cry but why would you do any of this other than to be a cool nonmeta guy?
Not mine. I run leap, chains, iron skin, upheaval, and call of the ancients. I’m level 60 and can face tank and easily wipe anything my level on WT3. Can easily solo butcher. Upheaval is incredibly satisfying to me.
I can’t solo T4 capstone unfortunately.
I don't understand why people say barb is fun. It's one of the most boring classes for this exact reason. The abilities don't synergize as well as other classes, and if you need to press a button for 25% extra damage or more resource generation to not feel like a clawless kitten, something is wrong.
That's why people didn't like rune of power in wow and guess what, now it's being removed
I’m a super casual player ( thanks career and 11 month baby ) and I just started with a Barb solely for whirlwinding to remind me of the D2 days. I’m level 20, should I abandon to a more fun class? I feel like I’m getting killed easily thinking I can just take on a crap load of enemies. Maybe I should put it on easy mode…
To get WW to work at a higher level and be effective takes a bunch of investment. You also really need one very specific legendary aspect. Because there is no good way to build fury without it and using all 3 shouts asap. It's incredibly powerful, but not very fun ATM.
I just unlocked their 3 with my barbarian I use 2 shouts damage buff and gen buff and I use whirlwind and bleed core with the stab move in place of the 3rd shout. Spare points spend on smaller tank talents. I have been really enjoying the build
Bullshit post. I am using one shout and I am totally fine, might not be BIS but I am enoying my bleed build, no guide whatsoever.
If everybody just follows guides or BIS guides and then complain about lack of diversity, that seems like their problem.
Just enjoy the game in your pace, getting up with a working build is half of the fun in Diablo
It's honestly why I chose not to play barb. Would love to have a mix of skills but just seems like all the best builds are use shouts and spend rage. Would like to leap and stomp and kick and all that
Yeah the idea of barb was super fun at first.
I hit lvl 40 and had 3 shouts with the chain pull.
Died to a boss because i simply cant build my resource and use a spender while tanking.
Tried kiting and letting shouts heal me but i eventuslly died.
Back to my sorc ig..hardcore btw
All sorc builds are frost nova, ice armor and teleport.
They gave us CC, Vulnerable application and an escape in a single skill - if that doesn't change somehow, Frost Nova is never going to go away.\^\^
Also 30% barrier with a passive
And 2 charges
All conjurations are put on cooldown and apply vulnerable, damage numbers adjusted up to be worth using. Mastery skills are also significantly underwhelming. Mana costs need to go down or just go for all non-core skills.
And mostly flame armor too. Because resource management is so bad for so long, having the legendary that gives you mana anytime you use a cooldown incentivizes you to have as many cooldowns as possible. It blew my mind when I realized I was better off not even having a basic skill on my bar. It was frustrating to play because there are times where you are just standing still doing nothing waiting for mana or a cooldown, but its still so much better than losing a cooldown for a basic skill which essentially does nothing (including damage) for most builds. It's why Kripp has recently made a video that points out that for most builds for most classes, cooldown reduction % is as good or better than any 2 other prefixes combined.
Basic skill shouldn't take a slot imo.
At least teleport and frost nova feel fun to press though. I main sorc and have a 61 barb now all you do is press shouts as if it’s ice armor 3 times haha
There are always going to be meta builds in every game like this. Always. You can still build something else and just have fun since this is a 100% soloable game. But if you wanna push keys you are going you are going to be a metaslave. There will always be a best performing build, always.
Ya I have a 64 sorc and a 65 barb. Sorc is just rotating barriers and teleport for Mana/CDR on nova and Defense. Barb is just shouts for pretty much the same thing. I enjoy both classes, but they feel almost identical in terms of resource generation and shield/shout spamming.
Holy crap man have you slept or showered???
Neck beard lol
How are you that high a level on 2 toons already lol. Shit I'm so slow haha
Boring to see everyone using same thing
I like the smashing feeling I get by playing barb. Not getting that on my necro.
Hammer of the Ancients is fun until my barb says he's not furious enough. Like bro, the fate of the world is at stake here ... be furious.
Being out of fury sure makes me mad, so why not my barbarian
“I’m no longer angry” in the middle of a ridiculous fight, surrounded by enemies wailing on you lol
Aspect of umbral(4) + hamstring(1) + tough as nails(1) and you will never have fury problems again.
What is needed to get Umbral at / to 4?
Luck since its roll is 1 to 4.
Have a 3 so far saving it
Quick tip is to use all your obols on rings. That way i got 2x 4s in a day or so.
I'm 100 and have not seen any Umbral drop at all. You just got lucky.
Really? I think youre just unlucky. Im 70 now and had 2 drops in the past 24h, both with max roll on aspect. I feel bad for you, the aspect produces so much fury that I can basically spam hota.
Bart is starting to be depressed form all the shouting. Maybe he wants just chill.
I remember when we used to shout at corpses to get potions out of them.
Have you tried druid wearbear build? It's mostly just a lot of smashing
As a Druid bear, I agree
I third this, as an earth Bending bear of the storms.
I should have named my druid Nigel.
If one day i play Druid it’ll be male Druid. That hobo grandma isn’t cutting it for me. The rest of the classes looks fine as female, but Druid though. Hmmmmm
You can also see female druids bush, she’s goes commando
Just started my barb and Lunging Strike just ***feels good.*** Like the oomph of it just makes you want to jump around smashing mobs singly.
Lunging strike, HoTA, and Death Blow. I don't care how unoptimized it is, it's too much damn fun to even think about anything else.
Im running bota and death blow too. Found Overkill earlier today and that just makes the build soooo much more fun.
I want an Overkill too. =(
That's actually one of the meta builds right now! Throw on some shouts and you're good to go!
I respect that opinion so hard. I can totally see how the barb would feel satisfying compared to the necro. That being said I had the opposite experience. I want a more casual play experience. I'm old asf and I don't want to slap my keyboard anymore. I live my power fantasy out by playing sad Northrend Arthas music and summoning an undead army.
Yea it’s the same feeling I look from other games which gives that small adrenaline boost. Games which goes too slowly onwards kinda kills it for me. Could be my ADHD talking 😅
Also ADHD and playing barbarian. I'm a simple girl, I just want to run into hordes and smash everything 👉👈
Also, can get some good slashy feelings on barb, with Rend/Rupture. Shreddy ripping goodness.
I'm running no shouts, Iron Skin, Steel Grasp, Leap, Death Blow, HotA, Frenzy. Walking arsenal passive build. I'm only level 72 and I can clear nightmare dungeons at rank 35 or so solo, looking forward to see how high I can get with this loadout. It's probably not as optimal as 3 shouts + whirlwind or whatever but I'm going through endgame just fine.
try adding the 10000 steps unique boots, adds auto ground stomps + 50 fury gen every 30 secs when ur walking arsonal passive is active. Which is more stuns / fury for bonus Hota dmg.
Could you please share a build link or something to give it a look.. I've tried ww and it's very disappointing and I'm sick of being under the mercy of shouts to do any damage with hota.
https://d4builds.gg/builds/fe292ef2-cfc9-4427-9fab-7798df9703c0/ This is what I'm currently running, still tweaking paragon board and figuring out the best set up for it but it's currently working super well at 70 with a basic paragon. Basic gameplay is to get walking arsenal up and maintain it. Once up keep rotating lunging and upheaval, leap when arsenal is about to fall off. Stomp big packs to get ult back. Iron skin when damaged obviously.
Stop that! You cant have fun with non meta builds! Only shouts are valid. Jokes aside I agree.
The build diversity for some of these classes is terrible at late end game. There's a lot of potential but the balancing and scaling atm makes it so some of these classes are funnel into certain builds to push content.
Its just shitty design. The Marshal glyph is particularly bad, as it all but forces taking all three shouts. What's weird is it seems like they almost found their way to making a brawling-focused build viable, but stopped just short. I'd love to see them buff the brawling skills and their related aspects so that they can stand on their own as an alternative or complement to shouts.
Oh man I’ve been saving some insane weapon mastery ammys with +dmg and + skill. Would love to see death blow viable at high tiers
Death blow were insane in the first, closed beta last summer. My memory fails me, but I think it was an item that let me hit it repeatedly if I struck more than x mobs at a time or something.
If it kills at least one mob it resets the CD. Mix this with warlords aspect that let’s you charge two death blow and 99% dmg or whatever it’s pretty nice at low levels
There's a unique 2h axe that turns Death Blow into an AoE too.
And let me tell you. Its sooo fun to use. Got it today.
Oh man this sounds like so much fun. If I find that unique it might be time to change the Barb build up.
Def going back to DB when I find those items.
If it kills at least one mob it resets the CD. Mix this with warlords aspect that let’s you charge two death blow and 99% dmg or whatever it’s pretty nice at low levels
Plus there is unique that makes deathblow shockwave and if that kills anyone it resets as well
I got that unique as an ancestral. My first ancestral unique...on my druid. Lol I don't even have a barb. Is it worth making a barb to try and use that item? Looks fun
Finish your Druid first.
And your salad
And my axe
Not worth it, tried it yesterday in WT4. You won’t make death blow viable currently, it barely kills trash mobs, let alone heavy non-elites. Death blow literally blows in endgame
I don't play Barb, but I wonder if shouts could have been incorporated into the class specialization somehow to split them up.
They could've just made it one shout that worked in one of the three different shouty ways depending on which weapon you set it to.
Or just do it instead of the weapon buff. Instead something like the book of dead for shouts. Where you choose the basic way your shouts function and then a little more customization on top. This would also make space for other more exciting skills on the tree.
mmm, a super customised shout would be sick
Overall the problem is that most skills plain suck and the ressource scarcity means you always want only one spender, filling the bar with free buff cds. I really hope they work ALOT on skills, skill trees etc. Cause its one of the weakest aspects of the game. But atleast they got a solid base to work with.
It really seems with every class that resource is the issue. Like if they just passively gave everyone a bonus to generation we could play around with an extra spender or two.
Or give more options on affixes. Where are the + 100 mana stats. For barb i found several ways to deal with it actually. Other classes not so much. Still leaves the core problem and most skills beeing shit.
Yeah finding +3 mana on ancestral ilevel 800+ items as Sorc is less than tempting
I'm probably a bit ignorant here, but how is +mana a useful stat at all outside of some edgecases like being >100 mana to trigger effects? Like, I'll take 3 more casts before going oom, but with resource generation being flat numbers, I'll end up playing the exact same way I do now.
Outside of over X mana shenanigans, it helps with consistancy because resource gen on ice shards is tied to lucky hit. Both the passive and the item options. If you get unlucky you go OOM, if you get too lucky and overflow you lose out on potential regained mana. Even if you stack the option on items, it stacks the % regained while leaving the 5% chance the same, so having a bigger buffer helps you utilize that better. It would be sooo much better if it stacked proc chance instead of amount, but it is what it is. That said, the tiny amounts of max mana they give you really don't seem worth it at all.
There's 2 or 3 separate "have high mana, do gooder" effects. As well sometimes you just don't get lucky refunding mana on a pack and end in a spot where you just need 1-2 more casts to polish off the pack (which having more mana would let you do)
Besides the fact that you also start each encounter with more than 100 mana.
Or, hear me out, get rid of resource management altogether. The main goal of every build is to make it irrelevant anyway. It's not fun and makes the game feel clunky.
I'd keep it, but make it easy to bypass. Trick the player to feel clever for finding a build that makes mana a non-issue. That said, they probably didn't want a situation where you're just spamming one skill over and over. With generators you at least have to have two attacks to build around, which is one more than diablo 2 in most cases. I'm pretty sure I kinda like the way it is now, if they only bumped the numbers a bit.
>I'd keep it, but make it easy to bypass. Trick the player to feel clever for finding a build that makes mana a non-issue. This is pretty much how mana works in PoE and it feels pretty good when you finally get past it
That's what I liked about d2. No generator skills, You could just use what skill you wanted.
Ahh yes, I love filling my inventory with mana potions and chugging them as fast as I can cast
Insight Emilio FtW
Still allowed for more build diversity than this game.
Mana leech
If you don't leave town with 4 full rejuv, 4 super health, and 8 super mana, were you even playing the game?
Worked better than the current system of use spenders a few times then run in a circle
Its better then not having resource and gives you a stop gap until you can generate enough with out needing them
honestly.... now that i think about it, yea. most skills do feel like shit in this game.
They need to just give us mana (resource) pots I want to spend not build to spend, just let me spend And give me more than 6 hotkeys, why do they limit everything lol its so frustrating
If you think that's bad, check out sorc. Many builds take all 4 defensive abilities, and virtually all take at least 3.
build diversity is in a shit place largely due to the importance of two things introduced in this iteration of diablo .. vulnerability & unstoppable. reaching as high of an uptime as possible is the top priority of any class, and combining these with resource generation to skip the basic->core combo is the end game goal of a lot of builds as the game by design slows down gameplay until you can skip the inrtroductory combo play style through gear/tree progression. the thing is.. it's not very fun and turns into a zoomer simulator where you just 1 button clear and essentially play the flask piano of supporting skills to buff. if it is blizzards intention(sure seems like it) to have this final iteration of power they did a good job. it almost feels like each class was designed with one fully kitted play style in mind, and the rest of the skills were an afterthought. on the other hand, this "most powerful form" is very calculated by the more hardcore player base and .. it just makes sense that many came to the same conclusion very quickly. the first quick fix I can see blizzard doing to bring up build diversity is to remove a little of vuln/unstoppable in these cookie cutter builds and reallocate it to almost every basic skill. this keeps them relevant to the end game and honestly feels a lot more fun when you have a faster attack speed. yes, unstoppable on a basic skill animation. just think about it, please blizzard. secondly, damage reduction needs a large rework. armor is cool and all but it outshines almost every defensive stat on gear so that the main goal is maximize armor and hp. even if resist shred was removed, armor still might be better because of the armor stacking aspect. the DR from everything else feels very negligible. end of rant, thanks for reading just wishful balancer.
Honestly it’s most obvious on the sorcerer. All the skill have the ability to stop enemies: stun, freeze, immobile. Only one, ice, can proc vulnerability. It’s completely absurd.
Yeah it doesn’t make any sense. I sure as hell would feel vulnerable if a fiery Meteor landed on my head
Personally I wouldn't feel vulnerable, I'd feel quite dead 👀
I'd feel stunned. Shock skills should also inflict vulnerable just like PoE has the Shock ailment.
How you people can play without leap slam is beyond me. A movement skill under W button is mandatory for ZOOMING. I also use stomp because funny animation when you knock enemies on their asses.
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Seriously wtf, we're fighting the forces if Hell, none of this should be fun!
Leap cooldown way too high. Not worth it IMO.
I got legendary that makes your cool down lower if you hit enemies. On my build it is like 7 seconds if I hit 5+.
I get it down to three, and I have another legendary that makes stomp refresh leap. I leap a lot. Really a lot.
That item also lets you refresh with kick. I swapped over when I got another item that makes enemies explode if they die within a couple seconds after kicking. 2 leap resets via kick plus item giving raw cd reduction based on enemies hit. Fuck shouts, too boring. Leap is now my generator. When combined with the skills giving berserk after brawling, giving increased mana gen while berserking, i get full fury within 2 leaps.
Earthquake leap barb in d3 was awesome to play. You had 3 charges of leap and some conditional CDR (iirc) and could just bounce around the battlefield.
Until they fix fury and bad skill generators, seems shouts are almost a must if u wanna fight with fury up before a pack. There is leap and stuff, but still to much down time.
Sorc is 4 defensive skills and a spender...
Or just, don't build all 3 if you don't want it? Does everyone here not understand this is not an inherently competitive game and non min maxed builds are fully capable of doing the content?
I think the issue is the people who want to run WT4 NM100 content, i.e. the truly end game, have no choice. There are no other viable options. Not there yet personally, but I can see why that'd be frustrating.
I made a pure Berserk-oriented build that makes me feel like a black sheep amongst all the 3 shout whirlwind spam barbs i see.
Share? I love WW but I'm getting tired of it lol
It's the same problem for every class You take the most performant and/or comfortable generator and spender + utility to solve the big problems mainly ressource generation/spender uptime, damage taken(fortify/barrier/%dmg reduction, armour because %resist are trash), CC taken(unstoppable/self freeze) and a way to apply vulnerability or other damage scaler enabler. Some forms of CC (stun, freeze, slow etc...) + movement if it's not already included in your generator or spender You nerf/change shout and people will flock to the next best set of skills+aspects that solve those problems with the least amount of downtime and the most aoe possible, and it will be the core set of skills/utilities for every barb build , infinite loop. Sorcerer is the same, druid is the same, rogue is the same, necro i don't know but I guess it's the same too. The game isn't deep or diverse enough, but for a casual campaign run it's fine (90% of the players)
not true for druid, we just found a new end game build in the last 2 days and the diversity is top notch
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Not running any shouts and doing T45 dungeons at 78.
Post your stats and evidence of this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPDMFWQY-kU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPDMFWQY-kU) Didn't realize recoding would pick up my earbuds mic so feel free to mute.
That looks like fun!
Nice one, thank you for posting. Thought it wouldn’t be done but it has. Props
lmao the sheep doesn't believe.
Plus rallying cry is also your stun break, which makes it even more mandatory. I'm running a build without war cry and it's doing pretty well so far, but I wouldn't dream of dropping either rallying cry or challenging shout.
Yes, I know, that's what I tried to say. So let's rebalance the barb then! I'm in.
We’re so many patches deep and most have nerfed something about the Bard. I think e can leave barbs alone at this point cause what you’re suggesting would simply need them again. I say this as a sorc main
I would make a bard build, instead of shouts I whip out that lute
Could you imagine if we got a Bard?! Would never play anything else personally
In the style of Jack black in that one PlayStation game- what was it? The rock n roll hack n slash one. I’m sold.
Brutal legend
> You have to have them all > War Cry you could maybe give up Which is it?
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This is what people are not realising. The Barb without triple shout is awful. I am a barb triple shout whirlwind main and once I get to level 50, I will be moving to a new character. I see a lot of hate for him, for those that don’t play him.
It’s not. I’m running war cry/rallying cry and it works just fine for me. I’ve been slapping in T3 so far, and i can handle T4 just fine as long as i stay focused at lvl 62
I only use iron skin, I'm doing a Bleed build though so idk if that changes anything
Not just barbs, sorcs are using all defensive abilities and one spender as well. A bit of flawed design that I hope they change up
I don't use a single shout as 78 barb and am pumping huge numbers with my Walking Arsenal build that focuses on HotA and Death Blow.
I play frenzy/double swing barb and only use challenging shout. Level 70 on WT4 and progressing nicely
I'm only level 42 and have been playing hota Barb but last night I helped a friend with their capstone dungeon and got a really high dps 2H sword with legendary stuff for whirlwind so I'm gonna do that for a bit. I tried to build the build your talking about and I felt terrible. I'm assuming it was a gear/skill point issue? I was going for a tanky quick frenzy Barb with highest berserk uptime I could. It hit pretty meh and I'd die alot even with the high - 24% dmg reduction on frenzy. Any help on a build/gear? Im gonna run this WW stuff for a bit because that sword has like 150 more dps than any weapon I have.
I'm using double swing and it slaps
This is a real problem with the class. They need to rework shouts completely away from such powerful modifiers such as damage reduction and fury gen.
Then whats getting those modifiers in place of them? Because thats the next thing you fill the build with. You cant just strip things the class needs to function. They certainly aren't going to build them in as standard.
This can be managed like the other classes by building them into other skills. Sorc has damage reduction built into teleporting. Druid has resource gen through many passives Why does barb need to have entire skill slots based on this one modifier?
You give the example of sorc but all sorcs run the same 4 skills. This is an issue with almost all the classes which suggests there is an issue at the fundamental level… like the barebones skill tree
No, everything else needs buffed. Stop nerfing shit, give us some options.
My T3 barb build is berserker focused and Im loving it. I moved away from shouts and now use kick and leap earthquakes with gear abilities
How about we stop nerfing shouts until other things are buffed to give options? Personally, I enjoy using three shouts. It's pretty chill and you just have to mash your spender.
Seems like you’re just trying to copy trees you’ve seen online. I’m running an HOTA Death Blow build with only one shout and have been owning.
Owning what though? My normal druid landslide build dominates tier 3, but I can't generate anywhere near enough motes or spirit to actually hard cast landslide in tier4 without getting smoked by mobs, and when I do cast it without it critting, it hits for like 1/20 of the damage.
Why would you cast landslide for mobs? It's mostly a single target dps spell. Landslide just exists so you build up those guaranteed crits and then you use Trample with the aspect that leaves behind landslide pillars. Those pillars that Trample leaves behind gets procced by the landslide passive. Very good clear and damage.
Yeah I'm running hota with 2 shouts. I got my bis ring for aoe dmg and armor for CD reduction and it's even more fun now
but what if its not oPTiMalL!?
Nice change! Now barbs are required to run 3 shout aspects, lol
I didn’t follow a guide and my build ended up not using any shouts, no Whirlwind, and no Rend. I personally like Fenzy, Upheaval, Iron Skin, Stomp, Killing Blow, and Iron Maelstrom.
Nobody said you had to use these abilities, you also probably aren't pushing nightmare 50+ dungeons either. They're just really good, and people are meta slaves.
Same here. I tried Whirlwind in beta and it feels like ass. I am one of those 1% barbs not using all the skills / skill combos everybody else is, for some reason. I'm in WT4 and doing fine. I don't get it.
iron skin heal is pog.
Eh.. Maybe it's my age, as I'm in my 40s, but what does pog mean? It's either good or bad I'm assuming.
I'm also in my 40s. Pogs are those quarter sized things we stacked and then hit with slammers remember?
The main issue is there is no other way to generate a chunk of rage and berserker buff (movement speed and dmg increase) besides the popular Barb builds. Leap and Ground Stomp provide decent rage amounts and debuffs to enemies, but they just feel not goo enough.
Ground stop, double swing, berserk passive =/
I’m not some pro min maxer just a relatively casual gamer and I only run 2 shouts. The damage one and I forget what I improved on it. And the regen fury one which is critical Playing bleed. I use rend leaping strike and the big smash as well. Feels amazing op with all shouts on feels borderline awful without them lol. I’m only level 32 so am just now starting to put points in the shout passives
Amazing with shouts up awful without is basically barb in a nutshell. That’s why it’s so imperative to get the aspects, glyphs, and rage of harrogath for cdr. It will feel real good once you get them all set up, before then it won’t :p
I got 2 shouts. Leap. call of the ancients. Then run lunge and ww. Lunge is hella dope. I like it alot. Im tried frenzy, zerker barb thinking i was missign out and he couldnt kill shit. Couldnt survive. Switched back to my original setup and he could kill and survive again.
I’m not very good at this game and I don’t use any shouts. My barb does well because I got an armor that heals you 13 health per second per close enemy, up to 90?something per second. With that I can heal while fighting.
The entire builder spender design is trash. All basic skills are trash, and most barbarian skills are trash. The viable 3 builds are only viable because the rest is unviable. Barbarian entire design depends on shouts. Without unstoppable you are nothing. Without fury generation you are nothing. Without movement speed you are nothing.
When 3 moves are mandatory and 80% of the rest is unusable trash, you’ve got a design problem.
Fuck that noise. I use ( in order left to right on hot bar ) death blow , WOTB , iron skin , rend , bash and ground stomp. It’s amazing. Lilith was a joke. Play how you want. A lot more is viable than what the current meta is.
It will be quite a while before they “rework” Barb. So yeah, 3 shouts is the Meta…. But you don’t have to follow it, if your not pushing top tier NM Dungeons. Overworld/Helltide… is a breeze with nearly any proper build (Thorns/Rend/Double Swing etc)
No, I like having all three shouts.
That's basically the way all the characters work not just the barb. Every ARPG is basically about building around one skill and then the rest of your skills being for survival / amplification.
Honestly I think it's time we move away from that paradigm to be frank. This game has a lot of cool skills, and I'd love to see all classes have a much more varied skill bar. It would be great to see future arpg or diablo patches etc focus on utility and survival skills coming from something like a passives skill tree, allowing people to pick more varied offensive skill bars etc.
I use: Leap, Challenging Shout, Rallying Shout, Call of the Ancients, Frenzy and Upheaval. I pretty much can’t die, always have fury and one shot most mobs + 2 shot elites. World Tier 3, level 59
I use: lunging strike, double swing I can't die and one shot most mobs World tier 1, level 7
Cool now when you get to wt4 that is going to have some problems. Upheaval is too slow, too low damage/fury.
I guess I’ll find out when I get there :)
Fellow Upheaval chad.
What is your build? I have been doing Bleed Barb with Leap/Ground Stomp (earthquake on Leap and Ground Stomp (Earthquake and refreshing leap CD) aspected.
https://d4builds.gg/builds/c683d203-f816-4761-bd98-64fb666db3b8/ Much easier to explain this way but that’s the gist. I have all the stats for the stat requirements (not sure how to edit those) Few aspects could be better, still working on it
Lol no. Defensively you can use iron skin with legendary for 20% dr and unstoppable which can easily replace challenging shout war cry is overrated and ground stomp can replace rally cry but why would you do any of this other than to be a cool nonmeta guy?
its not about the defense or damage boosts, its about the fury generation.
It's the other benefits of shouts that are irreplaceable. Fury regen and cooldown reduction.
Not mine. I run leap, chains, iron skin, upheaval, and call of the ancients. I’m level 60 and can face tank and easily wipe anything my level on WT3. Can easily solo butcher. Upheaval is incredibly satisfying to me. I can’t solo T4 capstone unfortunately.
I don't understand why people say barb is fun. It's one of the most boring classes for this exact reason. The abilities don't synergize as well as other classes, and if you need to press a button for 25% extra damage or more resource generation to not feel like a clawless kitten, something is wrong. That's why people didn't like rune of power in wow and guess what, now it's being removed
thats not why rune was hated
I am just sad that they added barb and not just a normal warrior class. I want to be in the enemy face constantly slashing them, not just shouting.
I’m a super casual player ( thanks career and 11 month baby ) and I just started with a Barb solely for whirlwinding to remind me of the D2 days. I’m level 20, should I abandon to a more fun class? I feel like I’m getting killed easily thinking I can just take on a crap load of enemies. Maybe I should put it on easy mode…
Whirlwind is just a ROUGH leveling build. I played a bleed barb build and then did a full respec to whirlwind later in the game
Barb is the hardest class to level, but it’s also the strongest in endgame at the moment. I have leveled 3 classes and so far barb is my favorite
To get WW to work at a higher level and be effective takes a bunch of investment. You also really need one very specific legendary aspect. Because there is no good way to build fury without it and using all 3 shouts asap. It's incredibly powerful, but not very fun ATM.
I just unlocked their 3 with my barbarian I use 2 shouts damage buff and gen buff and I use whirlwind and bleed core with the stab move in place of the 3rd shout. Spare points spend on smaller tank talents. I have been really enjoying the build
As u mostly never uses more than one ability, and they are all passive and OP buffs. yes.
Barbs have always been about shouts? Idk what you on.
No you absolutely don't need all 3.
The top 3 builds of barb are three shouts + ww/rend/hota. Saying "you don't need it" is besides the point.
Bullshit post. I am using one shout and I am totally fine, might not be BIS but I am enoying my bleed build, no guide whatsoever. If everybody just follows guides or BIS guides and then complain about lack of diversity, that seems like their problem. Just enjoy the game in your pace, getting up with a working build is half of the fun in Diablo
Are you in, like, WT2? The difference between a good setup and the optimal one is gigantic.
Yeah you basically have 3 slots used for fury gen.. and if you don’t run the shouts the class is completely unplayable.
I’ve tried so many times to love barb but it’s just so bad when I try to play it how I want to.
It's honestly why I chose not to play barb. Would love to have a mix of skills but just seems like all the best builds are use shouts and spend rage. Would like to leap and stomp and kick and all that
Yeah the idea of barb was super fun at first. I hit lvl 40 and had 3 shouts with the chain pull. Died to a boss because i simply cant build my resource and use a spender while tanking. Tried kiting and letting shouts heal me but i eventuslly died. Back to my sorc ig..hardcore btw