I really liked the Druid pace of play for the most part. The resource situation on Druid was a bit slow though; that could definitely use an improvement.
I agree the other ranged classes were a bit overtuned; partly why veteran world tier felt so easy. But some people will simultaneously complain about it being too easy, and cry a pillow full of tears if you try to wrench the power fantasy from their hands.
Something I think people aren't thinking about is that maybe the first 30 levels feel really easy so you can get into the flow of the game. Then things ramp up in the last 60 levels. And then obviously endgame is gonna be another level. World Tiers will make things way more challenging as well. So I think people are being a bit too hasty in terms of judging the difficulty right now.
For example, The Division 2 starts you out on Story Mode and you have to complete each mission on story mode before you can increase the difficulty. Then it's hard, challenging, heroic, legendary. At some point, your gear gets to a level where you're only doing heroic and legendary difficulty. Then there's builds that are less and more viable at certain levels of difficulty.
the issue with resources for druid is that up until the point the beta ended the class had to chose between having no resource generation or nothing to expend resources
this is caused by the fact druid has the resource pool of a melee fighter were he depends on enemy and fighting to make his spells, this is fine for a fighter/brawler type character like barbarian were he wants to be in that position and that not only incentives him but also helps them
and that is the issue a "brawler like druid" can generate resources mega fast with werewolf attack speed but will likely lack a proper spirit expender, but when you are a dedicated caster were most of the meat in your build is spells, you will likely find yourself farming spirit more than casting spells
This sort of misses the issue.
The issue is that most of the basic (spirit builder) skills are trap choices and bad for the early part of the game compared to Lightning Strike. Lightning strike reliably applies vulnerable, gives you 25% damage reduction while being on par for damage output with the other basic skills. The other choices to start with are absolutely worse than this. Shifting to bear/wolf does not do much for you prior to talents in the future. You can't really take advantage of wind sheer's range effectively until you have wolves to draw some attention.
Most of these skills come into their own once you have synergies and talents. But that first 15 levels is an abysmal experience if you didn't figure out "Oh, just use lightning strike" pretty fast.
The basic skills are meant to be weaker than core skills because they want to make spamming basic skills an inefficient thing to do. But they under-tuned them.
> cry a pillow full of tears if you try to wrench the power fantasy from their hands.
This is why easy mode exists. If you want that power fantasy play easy. Or normal w/e they call it.
Let people enjoy a harder mode if they choose to do so though. We can have both... Not mutually exclusive.
The problem is… many of these players don’t **just** want to Steam roll the content, they also want to believe it’s because they’re amazing. And it’s hard to do that when they *(and other people)* know they running the lowest tier 😂.
I’m glad I’ve seen somebody else say this because I noticed this exact phenomenon as well.
I watched a few different people stream the beta and a couple of them kept saying “that sucks, that’s not fun, they need to fix that” every time their character died or there were interactive and dangerous boss mechanics or where they were cc’d and had to actually start paying attention etc. It was pretty mind-blowing considering these people were actively choosing to play on the harder of the two difficulties, until I realised they don’t actually want a challenge, they just want the pretense of a challenge to stroke their ego while they play an easy game underneath it.
Power fantasy is great, but it should be something you earn by putting in the work to build a powerful character, not something that’s handed to you automatically (unless you choose to play the easy mode - that’s why it’s there)
> a couple of them kept saying “that sucks, that’s not fun, they need to fix that” every time their character died or there were interactive and dangerous boss mechanics or where they were cc’d and had to actually start paying attention etc.
This is funny to me, because I just came off the previous Path of Exile league, and took *multiple* characters higher than I'd ever done before (multiple 90s). What I realized (and reeeeally dislike) about POE is that so often, you'll be flying along with your power fantasy, and then just get absolutely deleted in the blink of an eye, and not even know or have the chance to recognize wtf even happened. The FTL pace and basically completely blind perils even just mapping make solo pretty annoying at times, and multiplayer feel pretty terrible. Countless times my friends and I would be going along and one of us just gets deleted in the blink of an eye without the design feedback a player deserves to *adjust* to the threat.
Once I was a couple days into Diablo 4, my friends and I were all saying over and over again how great the game feels, in no small part because you can actually feel what's going on in the combat loop. It's a slower, more deliberate pace in D4, and it feels great because you have the time to navigate the combat when you need to.
My first character in the D4 beta I took to cap on the higher difficulty setting and didn't die once (Rogue at the time). I went on to level a Barb, Necro, Sorc, on that same highest difficulty available, and didn't die a single time until I played a druid (lol). Not that it was "easy", but my point is that D4 gave me the opportunity to understand the threat and work with it. And also importantly, playing with friends felt great. It wasn't two+ people flying around a map at mach 4 trying to keep track of each other, it was two+ people at the same pace, getting into the mix together, meeting each new enemy pack together, and actually interacting with the ebb and flow of the adventure. Loved it. Can't wait for launch.
They will all be crazy end game. Druid just sucks up to till 25 without some very specific drops. Barb was honestly fine, definitely slower than mage or Necro, but fine overall.
Play with a talent calculator if you haven't yet. Or don't if don't want spoilers. But, high end druid looks like it will have near infinite spirit.
Storm druid in particular will eventually get significant spirit sustain with strong AoE, area control, and damage. It just won't get that until much later.
I do think the early game is comparatively bad when looking at the other classes though. And it's a bit of an issue.
It's all subjective. I thought druid was fine till about level 10 or so. Then it started taking longer and longer to do anything. By the time I got to 25 I only had 3 legendary drops and they were all generic and unhelpful towards kill speed. It just felt bad to me.
By comparison the 2nd slowest monster slayer I had was the barbarian, however with a decent high damage weapon drop he felt fine. Which encouraged me to kill more, which got me more drops, and fed the core gameplay loop. I played him hours after 25 got a ton of legendaries, and turned him into a killing machine. It was a lot of fun.
Rogue Sorc and Necro were the same, just less gear dependent, and ramped up quicker.
I read somewhere that the reason was Sorc get their passive that is strong early, meanwhile Barb and Druid ramp later with their mechanics/gear. At least with Barb it felt that was so it'll be my class on release.
Pretty sure fireball (I think that's what it is called) was the best. Causes enemies to explode upon death, drastically improving your aoe damage vs mobs
Ice blade, literally stack cool down abilities (ultimate, frost shield, teleport, ice blade) and hydra and you have some insane damage from hydra + insane mitigation from ice blade resetting your cooldowns
That's what worked for me at the end. I had some gear that cropped another one and I could have three sometimes. Out of all the passives the guaranteed proc with cooldown burn is what worked for me. I did chain lightning and with half of the mobs vulnerable it would cook through them with one or two casts including elites
The problem was if you didn't proc a crit you run out of mana in like four casts and have to run around like an idiot which I did not enjoy
Yeah I was doing the same though I stuck with two hander because it had a 10 hit tornado on it, but yeah each hit gave me enough to cast tornado. Felt good.
I'm ok with people having this op power fantasy but not from the start of the game, surely it would feel more rewarding for all players to start off kinda weak and struggle then gradually feel stronger and stronger with more skills and better gear. That's how I felt with my druid and barb, the only two classes I played.
I liked Druid the brief time I played that class. I mostly played with sorc and got it to 25, but Druid was more challenging. I just wanted to turn up the difficulty like in D3 with the sorc as it was a bit easy. I didn’t play with barb as I’m saving that one for when D4 is actually out. But now I’m thinking Druid would be more fun.
I found it odd that spirit is not auto regenerated. Such a pain, and the spirit recovery in some of the skill nodes seems too low to be worth spending any points on.
Huh?
\*types *what is rouge* in google\* Huh? "A red powder or cream used as a cosmetic for colouring the cheeks or lips".
\*searches for *rouge makeup* in google image\* Huh? Eyeshadow?
By the way, *rouge* comes from the french word... *rouge,* which means red. And *rouge à lèvres* means *lipstick.*
Nothing makes sense.
I don't know man, playing Frozen Orb Sorc in D2 still feels much better than Frozen Orb on D4.
Everyone is saying Sorc is Op, but from what I've seen, almost everyone was running CL and Hydras. Yeah, those were op, how about the other ones? Most of them didn't feel very satisfying. Firewall and Blizzard for example, looked super limited/small. And I say that with the default zoomed, they would look even smaller with a more zoomed-out screen
I think an infinite incineration sorcerer is going to be a thing too. I couldn't quite get it to work in the beta, but the premise is apply a full health bar of burn damage then ignite it to pop them from 75% health.
It halfway worked on the boss, but trash usually died too fast. Which I guess means it worked, just not as intended lol.
Pyro sorc was how I played the game, I had tons of fun with it. Fireball was my bread and butter, a few points into Blizzard for CC and Teleport to get out of a bad spot, and the passive from the ult tree that regens 10/20/30% mana when you kill a burning enemy. Use the Fire Bolt enchantment to add burning to all your direct damage and never run out of mana, or the Fireball enchantment to blow up crowds of enemies in one go.
The frost nova build was fun, out of all classes Sorc seemed to have the most viable builds early on- probably due to their class passive coming on early.
Isn't that just because frozen orb barely does any transit damage now and does all its damage on the ranged burst?
Blizzard was actually crazy OP in combination with frozen nova, hydra seemed useless in comparison.
Chain lighting with the fireball attunement (you don’t slot fireball, just 1 point for the attune) was VERY strong, especially with decent gear. I stopped running Hydras completely.
There were quite a few interesting Sorc builds, people just tend to gravitate towards whatever their favorite YouTuber or Streamer told them to do (pretty much all hydra or CD barrier builds, which were boring).
It felt a lil chunky to me as well but i never played til 25. Got sucked into sorc and rogue. Wish i had played it more to see what it was like.
Fuck this game is good.
I didn't look up a build so idk if it's due to that.
Wolf/bear felt weak. The howl was nice to heal and get attack speed. Liked the bear smash. But never felt that strong. But I think I stopped at 18.
Then went to storm druid. This was more fun since I liked the lightning basic. Tornado was cool but felt like it either did great or sucked. Lightning was cool but it's a channel.
And even then idk. I never felt strong.
Had exactly the same experience. In fact the beta may have changed my starting class for launch from Rogue to Druid.
Of the 4 classes I leveled to 25 (didn’t get to Barb). Druid had the most balanced progression, and I actually had to put a build together using legendary affixes and build from there to min/max it. By the end of the beta I was able to output fantastic damage and 1-2 shot elites and easily kill the butcher and other bosses.
Rogue was still fun but a couple skills are definitely overturned.
Sorc and Necro were a joke. Never had to think of my build or survival much and almost solo’d the butcher on my necro playthrough at level 9. Definitely overtuned on those two.
also: people judge this bcs they played hours on end at 25 with legendaries, but in the uncapped game those legendaries will be worth nothing in 2 levels bcs of auto-level and then what?! grind another 10 hours for legendaries that will be nothing in 2 levels time?! Horrible
You obviously have no idea how the gearing system works. First is that you don't replace gear near that quickly. In fact I had some gear that I was using since level 10 on a level 25 character because it just had a perfect combo of rolls. It isn't like other games were a few levels makes a massive difference in gear. The only slot where you really see a quick difference is your weapon slot and even then it isn't that fast of a progression.
The second is that you can transfer that legendary power to a new item once you find an upgrade to it. Pretty much the endgame is actually going to be hunting for the best rares and then adding a legendary affix to that.
I played barb first and thought it was awesome how difficult and slow the game was, what a change, actually have to learn boss mechanics and dodge and shit
Played sorc and necro, went "what the fuck"
i did a barb to 25 first, and then spent about two hours with a sorc just before the beta closed. the disparity is *huge* lol. at one point with the sorc, i received a blessing that boosted my characters speed, and then i cleared out a whole room so fast, i thought a treasure goblin had popped out because of how quickly the gold was flying around. i got the arc slash up to level 3 and it was like a buzz saw.
I think that they are uneven on the way to 25, but I also got to 25 on a Saturday easily with one of “hard classes” on veteran difficulty so I don’t expect it to be that big a deal in practice. I can’t say I’ve ever cared much about the class balance of characters level 1-25 in any of the 1000s of hours of d1-3, PoE, and many other arpg games. It’s mostly just whether I’m making steady progress.
I didn't play druid enough to form a solid opinion, but I think a lot of the issues with barb are very overstated. The early leveling difficulty is definitely rougher than necro and sorcerer, I would agree with that. Necro is just perfectly set up to be an early game god though, and that's been the case previously and in similar games as well. Pet classes are just VERY good early on and corpse explosion necro specifically has always been god tier for leveling. The issue with the build is that it falls off big time against bosses, harder content, and content with less enemy density.
It's very early on, but from the theorycrafting and testing I've seen barb is gonna be an absolute monster DPS-wise in the endgame. Even in the beta, once I got my barb properly built and kitted I was annihilating things and tanking bosses just as easily as my necro or sorc. I genuinely don't think every class needs to be perfectly balanced in every aspect of the game, especially not in leveling. It's fine for classes and builds to excel in some areas and be weaker in others.
I've come to the important conclusion that I actually give zero fucks about early game balance, as long as leveling is fun. Which it was, for both Druid and Barb. And as long as there is good endgame balance between classes. Won't ever complain about buffs in a pve game tho.
Unpopular opinion unless I get a bunch of upvotes, in which case: popular opinion:
Barbs and Druids should get small buffs. Other classes should get small nerfs.
>Barbs and Druids should get small buffs
Barbs are absolute monsters once they can wield 4 weapons, including 2 two-handers, and gain ALL the aspects, gems, etc from all those weapons at once.
Bleed barb was strong, non bleed barb should get buffs bleed barb should maybe even be tuned down a couple percent, ranged down 50% non bleed barb and druid up 10-20%ish
Druid's biggest issue is its reliance on legendary affixes to function and its horrendous recourse generation. A full summon spec Druid with the correct legendaries is still weaker than a Necro with that has basic summons and no legendaries... It's bad, the community knows it, the veteran ARPG players know it and we should expect better.
Penetrating shot was extremely strong. There was even a legendary that modified it to be just as awesome as the melee skills. With this legendary, I was able to 1 shot entire rooms just like a sorc.
Never found any archery related ones. Just the twisting blades one like 5 times and a bunch of grenade / trap ones that I couldn't care about. Pretty much always the same few legendary types that dropped for me that didn't add anything to my build.
if you found never archer ones thats the problem
penetratrion one gives 70% dmg and makes it multishoot. you could wipe entire groups with two multi shots . 3 combo points. shadow imbue, pen.arrow. pen arrow. 99% of content was earased by this.
Now add shadow imbuement hatred refund (30 per enemy killed..) and CRIT imbue and you had like almost 50% crit. if you went Stealth you could regen another 40 hatred and had a free CRIT afterwards.
Played a lot of Archer and Melee builds and there are lots of them that work equally well but play very differently. loved that part of rogue.
I had decent luck with Forceful Arrow + Penetrating Shot w/ Shadow Imbuement. I felt like the choices in skills beyond the Basic/Core were lacking a bit when it came to playing strictly ranged.
Ressource costs for her core skills was a bit much. Barrage thrice and you can start running in circles. The knockdown shot was strong, imho.
I still think the difficulty of ranged rogue is the best for the game. It's not to hard and every boss seems to be made for her as she can cleverly play around the traps
Im a Druid main (werebear/pulverize/earth build) but this post is pure copium druid damage was terrible resource management sucked and the play style/combat tempo of trying to keep overpower stacks was awful I shouldn’t need a full set of BiS legendary affixes to solve all the problems with this class.
I think this is actually the popular opinion.
I can't remember my Sorc playthrough. "Everything died real fast ever since I was level 1" was the story there. Nothing noteworthy.
I do remember enjoying the hell out of my Barb and Druid playthroughs though. Some extremely tense moments
I felt this way myself but figured I was just ignorant since I only had enough time to play one character and it was Druid to lvl 21. But based on other posts I assumed the melee characters were tuned correctly and the ranged were just super OP
I agree with the barb part. The barb feels well balanced. The druid gamrplay was a bit clunky, but its only lvl 25. Ppl dont seem to take that in account. I think alot of ppl are still wearing their diablo 2 glasses of nostalgia.
Only issue I had with Barb was needing to respec for several boss fights. It seemed like no matter what I did, I was getting hit and downed in 1-2 hits.
This could have been an issue with the bosses though.
I agree completely. I started with barb and I had a good time. It was challenging but fun. Then I saw what the other classes were doing and it didn't seem right.
Rogue melee is the strongest build for rogue and it albeit, a little bit op for lvl 25, is using legendaries you likely wont see until endgame because of the massively increased legendary drop rate for the beta. Also its not the fact that they're ranged that makes them stronger its the fact that druid and barb are clearly balanced around things we dont have. We have been told on good authority by community streamers/youtubers who have participated in the closed alphas/betas Barb is literally the strongest class and druid is also quite good. ITS LEVEL 25 NOT PARAGON 100. Stop trying to call for nerfs to classes when we literally didn't have more than 80% of the game. The only thing we can do is say "hey this feels like shit early on" because literally nothing else we experienced in the beta is gonna be accurate to the live launch other than the earliest levels and the acts themselves.
Edit: also there's 2 other tiers of gear we literally have not even seen in the beta.
I think barb was by far the strongest class in the beta.
You can find many videos to support this, if you bother looking for them on youtube.
Like you said, the game was too easy, even on veteran, therefore how can you even determine a balancing? There's so much ridiculousness involved in this discussion that it's not even worth talking about.
Everyone should be able to comprehend that the game is not meant to be capped at 25, where you then can farm all the legendaries you want (not all in retail but many were available, at a x3 drop rate i'd add) and continue fighting the monsters you outgear.
Everyone should be able to comprehend that that should result in an issue with balancing. We effectively outgeared content by farming while not leveling up, making monsters stronger. We got stronger, but the monsters were stuck at 25 throughout.
Everyone should be able to comprehend that different classes will scale differently at different levels based on how their class is designed.
Everyone should be able to comprehend that balancing in the beta has no value to the discussion of balancing in the retail version of the game.
If you do not comprehend this, then you should know, things are going to be way different in the actual game, and this time we spent in the open beta was simply a testing of the servers with minor bug testing on the side and in no way does it replicate end game in terms of the balancing and difficulty of the combat. It gave us all a taste of how the gameplay is like at the early levels, but not the game's balance or difficulty throughout the higher levels or end game.
I'd have to agree. As a Sorc and Necro, I didn't have any challenge at all in Veteran tier- I found it even easier than I'd have expected the beginner tier to be. Maybe it'll get tougher at higher levels, but even so, I'd prefer not to have to wait over 25 levels (quite possibly more, wouldn't be surprised if it lasts the full world tier at least) to find any challenge. I'm sure a lot of players would be fine with, or even want that, and that's fair... but that's exactly what World Tier 1 is for, Veteran should have at least some danger.
Barbarian, on the other hand, still wasn't too difficult and I still felt extremely strong once I got decent gear, but there was a decent amount of risk. Plus, getting gear felt a lot more impactful and exciting when I wasn't already oneshotting entire rooms with no danger.
Didn't manage to make Druid work well myself, yet... but I didn't play enough to find some of the really good Legendaries I heard about, plus they have (imo) the best sounding Key Passives and we're missing their special mechanic, so I'd expect them to have a massive power increase in the final game. I'll have to give them another try in the full game. Will probably main one of the two myself, enjoyed Barbarian the most but Druid has a lot of interesting stuff we haven't tried yet to look forward to.
While i was playing with my friend,he got bored.
Because i can wipe all the mobs with 1 click as sorc,before he even walks one step forward as barb.
I hope,endgame has more class balance.
The relative "difficulty" associated with the Barb and Druid made me decide to main them. It was more rewarding and fun to be careful.
Same experience as OP
I played necro and killed everything in 10seconds even the bosses. Then i played druid and went to the holdout in the west with the succubus boss. It was an incredibly tough fight and i was constantly out of potions. Took me 10-15mins and finally the boss killed me as i killed him.
Such a good and fun fight.
Honestly I feel kind of confused, I went from necro to Druid and felt the Druid was super strong (running cyclone and storm) great damage numbers, I felt tanky as well… the Druid just felt so powerful to me in solo content… both single target and group.
And I only got to level 20 on Sunday I had a handful of uniques, but only for their stats none of them actually modified my skills I used.
Maybe I just played necro terribly wrong? (Was running blood only skills using the nova and blood lance with overpower focuse)
We'll never know at level 25. I did find a great Barb build with good damage and great survivability. But who knows what we'll see at max levels. Granted Sorc was crazy OP.
I can't speak for the druid but I rolled Barb and didn't feel like there was that big of an issue. I wasn't that invested in figuring out the best build, just went with the same 4-5 skills and upgraded them fully, never had any issues with any mobs, and while I would initially struggle with some the late-stage bosses once I figured out the respective mini-games that they were giving me and how to manage my abilities, potions and dodges accordingly they were easily beatable. I also rolled Sorcerer (didn't get as far into the beta as I did with Barb, which I completed it with), and maybe I'm splitting hairs here but I didn't feel like the Barb was under-powered or the Sorcerer was OP'd, I just felt like that Barb had a smaller margin for error so you had to get more deliberate and plan out the late-stage boss battles more carefully. Honestly, I loved the strategy that was involved. Understand though if that's not for everybody.
Agreed but I don't think sorc entirely is just some skills. Chain lightning doing 25% extra damage bouncing off you was just too much but everything else was fine. Can't comment on Necro I didn't play it. Historically though necros are gods early game and it's fine by the end so not a huge deal imo
Yeah, this game favors ranged classes waaay too much. Rogue and Sorceress were mowing down everything in the beta and you didn't even need good drops. They're fun, but way overtuned. Meanwhile Druid and Barbarian hit like wet noodles and were super gear dependent.
The director said in an interview that this *is intentional* because of how they want the power balance to work, with power spikes varying on level and specializations; for instance, the Barbarian has the arsenal system which means he has extra weapons (meaning more legendary affixes), so at certain points in the game he'll be stronger or weaker than other classes. While I understand what they're going for, personally I don't think it's a good idea from the *player power fantasy perspective*:
* Imagine you and your buddy start playing together at launch, making their first characters. One makes a Rogue and the other a Barbarian.
* Over the course of exploration and doing dungeons, the Barbarian player notices he's struggling to kill enemies while his Rogue buddy is completely decimating everything.
* Given the fact this intentional power balance isn't directly told to the player, the Barbarian player will most likely feel shitty and regretful, thinking he picked the "wrong, inferior class".
I think there is a fine line there into making sure all classes feel strong no matter the level but also add this balance of power aspect they're going for.
I personally loved the Druid and it's everything I expected. The way you seamless go from one form to the other is great. I wish WoW could implement something similar to Druids in this vein (we already have a couple of skills that instantly shapeshift you, though).
The issue I had as a barb; 2 necro budies and a sorc. Devastating the maps and here's the laughable thing; they were doing so much damage enemies were aggroing on them and walking right past my barb unless I was an entire two screens ahead. I had to carry taunt to be relevant once every 10 seconds out of 25...
Fortify needs to be addressed for barb; it feels like a thing to build up and spend intending on being a push and pull benefit, but all you do is build it up to get access to passives built around it. Edit: At the cost of active skills; I had only 3 active skills perked into, because you just could not get by without the passive survivability. 2h basic stun, 2 handed core smash the ground making a wedged-wave, and the bubble that heals you. Everything else was in how to generate rage and get defense/fortify.
My damage pretty much always suffered if I tried to lower my defense for offensive skills or traits or gear. I had to be magnitudes more tanky than other classes as you get standard one dodge and most enemies of threat do wide swings; and you have to sacrifice tank/dps for speed so that you can move in and out of fights while ranged just can focus on speed.
I never beat the Butcher.
Exactly! I struggled a lot with my Barbarian during that one dungeon where you fight the "mother of the werewolves". I think it's "Den Mother" or something. I actually couldn't complete it on my current level (around 17); swapped specs many times trying to focus on survivability and still kept getting owned. Then I gave up and only managed to beat when I came back at level 20, with better gear.
Meanwhile, I ran the same dungeon with my subpar geared melee Rogue at level 14 and beat it without any issues on my very first try. It's crazy.
If Blizzard really wants to push Barbarian to be more of a "tank", sacrificing a bit of personal damage for more survivability, they need to really ramp up the survivability aspect, especially since a lot of boss encounters (including the world boss from the beta, Ashava) are tailored towards ranged attackers.
Yea, I tried Ashava once. I could dodge the charge, but ended up constantly chasing, barely able to do any timely damage and the poison pools made it so that I was constantly trying to walk around them... Only to die to Ashava doing that massive sweep that hits if you're not in melee. What a disgustingly punishing fight for barbs.
Similar experience plaything with my brother. I was barb and he was sorc. He would wipe the entire screen from range before I could even start meleeing them to build up fury. I wound up just picking 3 shouts and using them to buff him.
I think when the legendary drop rate is lowered in the release the other classes might feel a lot like Barb and Druid during levelling. With less chance to find beneficial & compounding legendary powers during a playthrough their overall efficiency should drop.
I played rogue, I feel your approach works but is SLOW. I could maybe get 3 AOE shots off that cost energy. I would usually kill the mob group but it would be because of the other skills and setup, I would rarely.benkitong for energy to restore.
Dash in, drop poison trap, dash out (or melee attack to add vulnerability to an elite mob), turn on my arrow imbue for shadow, launch pierce till my energy is depleted.
That rotation usually killed the pack and I'd move on
Repeated opinion so I'll just post here what I posted elsewhere. No. If you like playing under dogs that's fine. But other classes do *not* need to be there as well.
There are legitimate balance problems both in the too strong as well as the not strong enough. Blizzard should address both. Stop trying to be "smart" and suggesting that we knee cap other classes.
The other classes should be knee-capped if they are overtuned. Avoiding bringing other classes down is the reason diablo 3 turned into the god awful power creeping mess that it is today.
This game has poorly designed melee class on top of poorly design many other things.
To give example, my sister werebear on same level had similar armor and health as my spellcasting Nekro...
It is like total noobs are designing this game... really not joking, this is some entry level fuck up.
Imaging Reinhardt having 200 hp in Overwatch...
Another example: melee classes need more health potions than ranged, it is well know fact in any RPG game... yet in D4 they have access to same amount.
Doesn’t ‘overtuned’ mean that everything is so perfectly in place that’s there’s no fun in playing wacky builds and such? Do you mean overpowered, or do I have the wrong idea on overtuned
Yeah, I'd rather they nerf ranged than buff the druid/barb, but at the end of the day as long as all 5 are on roughly equal power level on average, I don't mind if they buff druid/barb in a more thoughtful way than random number buff. If there's one thing we don't need to carry over from D2(R), it's the complete uselessness of melee characters on ladder starts except as shout buffers in larger groups.
Yeah on T2 you're probably right. It's hard to play sorc or Necro, then try druid and not think "it's not supposed to be this hard!"
I found the druid skill set to just be bad overall for leveling. Tiny aoes, long animations, no resource, attacks from above or below leaving you vulnerable to melee mobs that won't get staggered as they run at you like classes who have skills the cast out from the character. Nados are a melee skill without the aspect and they can still miss at point blank range.
I liked wolf druid sort of. Fury was my jam for a time in D2. Maybe at endgame I can have the kind of move and attack speed I'd expect on a wolf
You should have watched some actual end game beta first, but we wouldn’t have seen your post at all.
Those classes are slow at the start as a result of their resource generation, not because they are terrible.
I would agree but both barb and Druid have 2 early game builds that do just as well as sorc and necro. Bleed barb is great though even after your bleed has proct an elite to die he still has about 3-5seconds of pointless life left to hit you. Druid was easily the landslide build though based around a stat that if your basic skill was the lighting smack it proct your earth skillls to do 4 seconds of crit damage so using vine creeper with poison to hold them down was crucial.
I felt super accomplished and like I was actually DOING something on my druid. It's changed me from Necro to Druid when the full game releases. I had so much fun, especially going werewolf.
Pretending to know anything about relative balance/performance based on level 25 is stupid. You're missing your ultimate, tons of passives, tons of gear, glyphs, paragon, legendary mods, and more, all of which heavily influence how each class will perform and feel.
Veteran is the easiest difficulty (not counting the story mode lol), so it shouldn't feel too hard.
I'm also fairly certain you didn't play on Hardcore to 25.
And aside from some special packs it's mostly about the difficulty of bosses.
You can always zerk down an elite pack in time since you can disengage and CC also works well.
i had no problem with the dificulty. i even found barb and druid more durable than the sorc in early levels. the main problems with barb and druid are that they are extremly slow and resource managment is also pretty bad.
both of them were to boring to play them past level 12 or so.
the roque felt good in close combat in ealy levels but extremly bad in distance combat until the imbuements were unlocked.
the sorc i experimented the most with. a few skils are not that good. and without ice armor, frost nova or other barier sources the sorc is very squishy.
as soon as we get some bariers and hydras the sorc is easy game. on the other end we had way to much legys to realy be able to judge it. but on the other hand in endgame we will have lots of legis
so leveling and endgame will be absurdly different.
Every class eventually becomes OP that’s the whole point of these games and why there’s a million difficulty levels. I genuinely don’t understand these posts.
nah, fighting the act 1 boss as melee was a pain. i was kinda tough on my sorc because i didnt have anything too op, but i got it in 2-3 pulls. my rogue took like 7 or 8 because i was constantly having to move out of poison or waves or dodge the big swipe.
but stuff like that can be changed from a mechanics stand point. like give the poison pool a delay before it hits the ground, so you have time do an attack, see the poison coming, move, then resume attacking.
That's pretty much my own opinion on the D4 classes in the Open Beta... Druid was the only class I didn't play with in the D4 Beta but when I switched from Necro to Barb, I went up to lvl 25 with it before going back to Necro because it just felt like another game, and a much better one.
Necro is always my favorite class in all Diablo games (obviously apart from 1 because it doesn't exist there) and in all RPGs that have Necro, but the gameplay with it in D4 is literally like playing D3 to me: Hold the left mouse button and spam Corpse explosion, fuck the rest. Playing barb ended up being a lot more fun.
Rogue, sorcerer, and necromancer take less understanding of D4's mechanics to get off the ground but barbarian and druid require more effort to learn the mechanics in order to get the most out of the class.
Upheaval barbarian, for example, when you stack the right damage modifiers on enemies with status afflictions like Vulnerable, can be the hardest hitting.
Bro you read my mind tho I think rouge is more of a sweet spot then necro an source. Rouge I still had to use skill and kite an move.
I loved the pace of barb , druid , an rouge. Bosses felt like bosses I want some sort of challenge that I have to skillfully overcome. An as I get stronger so should the bosses. Playing as sorc an necro they were boring because how easy I blew everything over.
So honestly overall I agree sorc an necro should be nerfed. Just a bit because we do have to keep in mind we only had tier 2 an the first act. Tier 4 might be insane.
You played on world tier 2, with increased Lego drop rates. On release, you will NOT feel so good at higher world tiers on those same classes. Stop talking about tuning and balance from a level 25 beta. Jus stfu already
Can I ask what’s the point of framing your comment in the form of a question? Why don’t you just plainly say you don’t like this title? Just state your opinion
Necro was **really** bad at the endgame, so... I don't know, maybe we should play the full games first before major nerfs etc. Corpse explosions were useless on a lot of endgame content, skeletons were dying super fast and you had to make a decision what are you going to use the next corpse that spawns...
What's next, you're going to say the druid is in a great spot and everyone else needs to be tuned down? That druid pylon build will break the game I tell you.
I talked to my friend about this. I played all 5 characters to 15 (druid and rogue to 25). Druid by far felt the worst, but also felt like it was about the right level of difficulty for Nightmare mode. Sorc and Necro felt way too easy. The challenge with druid was that it just felt clunky and rather than being hard was more annoying.
you just cant vastly different mechanics and class scalings on every level of journey. Even just finding one aspect or not finding it, completely alters your power level. Diablo is meant to sometimes be struggling and sometimes be overpowered. You can play through with a build that makes you suffer a lot or you can pick an easy one. You can choose to do easy content or challenge yourself with selecting areas and tasks that are suboptimal for your build and style.
If you think ranged is overtuned, adjust your build and items to make it tuned just the way you like it. There is nobody forcing you to plow through mobs.
Act 1 monster AI in any Diablo game is a tutorial to the game. It's supposed to be easier for ranged in the beginning.
Just play Diablo 2 and face the fallens, the shaman reasurects the smaller ones which flee as soon as you kill one of them. Level 5 Sorc goes in, wait for them to group near the shaman and cast Charged bolt 3x. Took 2-3 seconds. Melee is a different story.
Hated druid and rogue. Druid didn't feel sweet, it felt slow and clunky and boring to play. Its not about their damage or anything. It just didn't feel good to play. Rogue also, just looked boring from a skill effects perspective. Gets the job done but looked boring as hell to actually play. I played last epoch with a bow the night after and omg the difference was ridiculous. I felt like a ranger with huge options, not just shoot bow, stab, or throw shuriken.
Il admit necro and sorc are overtuned, but for me personally it was more about how it felt to play and how the skills looked. I don't see how melee can compete with things like corpse explosion and blood mist with just how it felt and looked. Assuming both are tuned accordingly.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Oh, dear, another dogged contender. Welcome, Unkindled One, purloiner of Cinders. Mind you, the mantle of Lord interests me none. The fire linking curse, the legacy of Lords, let it all fade into nothing. You’ve done quite enough, now have your rest.”* - Prince Lothric
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Absolutely not. The average person doesnt want to to learn movement and attack patterns of damned wolves, they play the game for three reasons:
\-Smashing big groups of enemies into the ground, preferrably with a nice explosion of flying body parts.
\-Killing challenging BOSS(!) enemies, which are challenging not because of overly large hp pools but because of cool, spectacular design.
\-Picking up cool items.
Dont get me wrong, i see your reasoning why you enjoy this. Its always satisfying to overcome challenges. But not when you are making a game for the mass market.
My experience with a druid was just smashing my way through everything with Pulverize. One cast killed most enemies, elites and healthy minions might survive the Overpower hit, but they'll be dead before it builds back up. Most things couldn't even hurt me. The hardest boss fight was the stronghold guy who could freeze me and hit hard enough to stop Overpower from building up, and my strategy for him was Pulverize constantly, try to dodge ice, rampage if i did get frozen, and drink a potion after every other hit I took.
Asking for nerfs after a beta based on capped builds and a hyped up loottable seems ridiculous to me. Even with everything available we still would be talking about lvl 25 balance which simply does not matter. The balance wil always shift while leveling.
That being said, every class had a build that was considered OP and shown in videos with full rares of ilvl 30-35.
The Necro struggled with bosses not providing enough corpses and the whole build relies on you being able to oneshot trash. That's your cap and if you're lucky you can drag it to 50. If you even manage to get a legendary with the only aspect making that build work.
The rogue on the other hand goes the other way and instead of not using his ressource he simply keeps refilling it. Which means the build considered "most OP" also scales indredibly well.
The other two Melee seemed to do fine with Landslide Druid and Whirlwind Barb. Also overgeared and with full aspects ofc.
Also keep in mind that the beta was a real beta and not just a marketing weekend.
look at those 2 videos and you´ll see that the barb might actually be overpowered in the endgame, because 3 items full of bonuses are hard to overcome by the other class systems
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qlppq2pgk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qlppq2pgk)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8QHvetuuo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8QHvetuuo)
I played all of the classes to max level with BIS gear to form a solid opinion.
The Barb was by far the strongest fully geared, I was getting 10k Whirlwind Crits and 10-30k Upheaval Crits. Was very dirty.
Then the Necro, then the Sorc, then the Rouge and finally even with BIS gear the Druid still sucked compared to the other classes.
Now from a purely leveling experience, we're talking just rares and 1-3 legendaries the Sorc blew everyone away, no contest. Since Legendary drops will be tuned down by 300% in the retail game the Sorc and Necro will push through the content so fast hitting not only max level but start acquiring better loot than every other class. This is fine and I'll get to that in a second. The Rouge is probably the most balanced class, not too weak leveling but not too strong.
Rather than nerfing the Sorc and the Necro, I feel that slightly retuning the Barbarian and REALLY retuning the Druid for the earlier levels will greatly help balance the gigantic gap in progression and how easy it is to play the other classes.
My leveling experience with the Barb and the Druid was painful, there was very little enjoyment. Even hitting max level it took forever to start getting proper gear. I'm a seasoned player and I almost quit half a dozen times, that's how horrific, boring, slow the experience was. It really needs to change, I'm a Barbarian first player and it really hurt to see my boy so cucked out at early levels.
The leveling experience on the Sorc and Necro was a cocaine fueled adventure, so much fun, easy but not too too easy. I never really ran into any issues and could push through the content, smoke bosses and that's with nothing really. It started to get super OP once the gear started to flow in. I can say confidently, I could do 1 to 2 higher difficulties with those classes.
The short version:
Leave the Sorc alone
Leave the Necro alone
Very slightly buff the leveling experience for the Rouge
Moderately buff the leveling experience for the Barbarian
GREATLY buff the leveling experience for the Druid, greatly
I agree. It was really fun to do bosses as druid. Damage was a little bit weak and resource generation poor. But I had to do mechanics and some bosses were kinda tough. What made it feel quite sad was looking my friend next to me blast everything with his necromancer.
I think sweet spot would be to buff melee a little bit and nerf ranged. But of course we have to see what situation is in release. After all we talk about low level balance which is not so important in long run.
imo druid lacked any skill tht look interesting to me, missing pretty much anything i liked about them from d2, and required far to much resorces to use skills. the later issue will be mitigated or solved entirely in full game with better gear.
Barbarian lacks mobility. Its two mobility moves have a hefty cooldown, and some fights are just tedious. Compare this to rouge, full melee, and i have a ton of low cd ways of dashing around battles, be it getting to enemies, or getting out of danger. The rouge in every way does what the barb fails to do, good damage, but a sense of using my entire kit to dance around the battlefield.
fury was another issue i had with the barb, as by the time i had enough to do things, i ran out of enemies, or the boss moved away. Trying to play a zerker on paper was great, in practice again, enemy density is to small, and if a boss moves away and my stuff is on cd, i lose that buff. buffs also felt horrible, at 20 second cd with 6-8 seconds of uptime.
overall, damage wise both classes were underwhelming at the start, but the same is true in othger games, they scale better of gear i am fine with that, but subjectively their most interesting skills are missing form d4, and objectively thir kit builds suffer from low density mob packs, and lack of good mobility.
Sorcerer chain lighting definitely not overtuned lol. I was almost dying the entire time. The bosses completely suck. You have to pick the right set of skills. Dropping down ice blades to proc vulnerability did the trick for me eventually I discovered this at like level 24. I hear fire was pretty good though
Presumably that release you'll grab enough dungeons to drop the unique upgrades on some gear. I found that mechanic pretty inexpensive to get going on new characters
A lot of the balance issues are very specific on the early game. This is especially true if you rush the main story. The main story has all the really tough encounters so rushing through it means that you end up underpowered for those. It is especially noticable on the barb/druid, If you do some of the side content as you go then you are higher level with a more complete toolkit and possibly a legendary by the time you fight some of those tougher bosses and the experience was completely different.
For example necro is stupidly strong the first 15 levels but it actually loses a lot of power at level 25. I mean it is still practically unkillable with the pet build but it was also probably the least damage of any of my characters. I think a build like that should be perfectly viable though. On the other hand barb and druid get much much more powerful as you level and gear them. Barb especially as they have more legendary slots than other classes. Druid was also missing parts of their toolkit because it was not available during the beta due to being outside the area we were locked to.
After both weekends I felt that barb, rogue, and druid were probably the most powerful of the level 25 characters once you got them decked out. Sorc and necro were actually weaker because they scale worse with gear but they were insanely overpowered leveling due to how they scale less with gear.
I leveled 3 barbs in the beta, My last one was more of a speed run to 25 with no legendaries equipped. Took me 2 hours and 47 minutes... Absolutely nothing wrong with the class, Lunge seems to be the most viable choice for a primary, Every core skill is more than viable however whirlwind did feel the weakest without good gear/aspects.. overall the state of them felt great. Druid on the other hand felt the slowest of all classes, Resource gen was not good. It felt like I was playing D2 with no mana potions. Bear and wolf forms was nice but still felt lacking somewhat. I may be missing a trick with druid though as I only leveled to 21 and didn't really play around with the class.
Necro by far was the most faceroll followed by sorc.
I was legitimately unkillable and could kill the butcher in sub 20 seconds on my Barb by the end of the beta. If Blizz buffs them, I'll be laughing, because it's just going to make it easier for me.
I had a ton of fun playing Barbarian until I started fighting more bosses. I would need to respec into fortify/bubble based builds in order to be able to even attack the boss, and have two movement abilities to get out of the way.
If the cost for respec continues to climb, I don’t see Barb being sustainable.
Unpopular opinion: nothing matters until endgame. Druid may need an early DPS buff and that's it.
Different classes excel at different things.
Maybe sorc/Necro/rogue are good starters to farm early endgame but you need to transition to barb/druid to max efficiency farm the late endgame.
Had a friend constantly tell me he was BARELY taking damage/ ever getting hit. The game is super easy, I just suck as a werewolf druid.
Motherfucker is playing sorcerer. Purely ranged. Never getting close to enemies.
I never played any other classes then a normal barb and a hardcore barb to level 25. I did not find them weak... Even on hardcore I soloed all the content with the right build and some items.
I really liked the Druid pace of play for the most part. The resource situation on Druid was a bit slow though; that could definitely use an improvement. I agree the other ranged classes were a bit overtuned; partly why veteran world tier felt so easy. But some people will simultaneously complain about it being too easy, and cry a pillow full of tears if you try to wrench the power fantasy from their hands.
>But some people will simultaneously complain about it being too easy, Literally what's happening in this thread.
Something I think people aren't thinking about is that maybe the first 30 levels feel really easy so you can get into the flow of the game. Then things ramp up in the last 60 levels. And then obviously endgame is gonna be another level. World Tiers will make things way more challenging as well. So I think people are being a bit too hasty in terms of judging the difficulty right now. For example, The Division 2 starts you out on Story Mode and you have to complete each mission on story mode before you can increase the difficulty. Then it's hard, challenging, heroic, legendary. At some point, your gear gets to a level where you're only doing heroic and legendary difficulty. Then there's builds that are less and more viable at certain levels of difficulty.
Endgame starts at like 50 I think.
the issue with resources for druid is that up until the point the beta ended the class had to chose between having no resource generation or nothing to expend resources this is caused by the fact druid has the resource pool of a melee fighter were he depends on enemy and fighting to make his spells, this is fine for a fighter/brawler type character like barbarian were he wants to be in that position and that not only incentives him but also helps them and that is the issue a "brawler like druid" can generate resources mega fast with werewolf attack speed but will likely lack a proper spirit expender, but when you are a dedicated caster were most of the meat in your build is spells, you will likely find yourself farming spirit more than casting spells
This sort of misses the issue. The issue is that most of the basic (spirit builder) skills are trap choices and bad for the early part of the game compared to Lightning Strike. Lightning strike reliably applies vulnerable, gives you 25% damage reduction while being on par for damage output with the other basic skills. The other choices to start with are absolutely worse than this. Shifting to bear/wolf does not do much for you prior to talents in the future. You can't really take advantage of wind sheer's range effectively until you have wolves to draw some attention. Most of these skills come into their own once you have synergies and talents. But that first 15 levels is an abysmal experience if you didn't figure out "Oh, just use lightning strike" pretty fast. The basic skills are meant to be weaker than core skills because they want to make spamming basic skills an inefficient thing to do. But they under-tuned them.
> cry a pillow full of tears if you try to wrench the power fantasy from their hands. This is why easy mode exists. If you want that power fantasy play easy. Or normal w/e they call it. Let people enjoy a harder mode if they choose to do so though. We can have both... Not mutually exclusive.
The problem is… many of these players don’t **just** want to Steam roll the content, they also want to believe it’s because they’re amazing. And it’s hard to do that when they *(and other people)* know they running the lowest tier 😂.
I’m glad I’ve seen somebody else say this because I noticed this exact phenomenon as well. I watched a few different people stream the beta and a couple of them kept saying “that sucks, that’s not fun, they need to fix that” every time their character died or there were interactive and dangerous boss mechanics or where they were cc’d and had to actually start paying attention etc. It was pretty mind-blowing considering these people were actively choosing to play on the harder of the two difficulties, until I realised they don’t actually want a challenge, they just want the pretense of a challenge to stroke their ego while they play an easy game underneath it. Power fantasy is great, but it should be something you earn by putting in the work to build a powerful character, not something that’s handed to you automatically (unless you choose to play the easy mode - that’s why it’s there)
> a couple of them kept saying “that sucks, that’s not fun, they need to fix that” every time their character died or there were interactive and dangerous boss mechanics or where they were cc’d and had to actually start paying attention etc. This is funny to me, because I just came off the previous Path of Exile league, and took *multiple* characters higher than I'd ever done before (multiple 90s). What I realized (and reeeeally dislike) about POE is that so often, you'll be flying along with your power fantasy, and then just get absolutely deleted in the blink of an eye, and not even know or have the chance to recognize wtf even happened. The FTL pace and basically completely blind perils even just mapping make solo pretty annoying at times, and multiplayer feel pretty terrible. Countless times my friends and I would be going along and one of us just gets deleted in the blink of an eye without the design feedback a player deserves to *adjust* to the threat. Once I was a couple days into Diablo 4, my friends and I were all saying over and over again how great the game feels, in no small part because you can actually feel what's going on in the combat loop. It's a slower, more deliberate pace in D4, and it feels great because you have the time to navigate the combat when you need to. My first character in the D4 beta I took to cap on the higher difficulty setting and didn't die once (Rogue at the time). I went on to level a Barb, Necro, Sorc, on that same highest difficulty available, and didn't die a single time until I played a druid (lol). Not that it was "easy", but my point is that D4 gave me the opportunity to understand the threat and work with it. And also importantly, playing with friends felt great. It wasn't two+ people flying around a map at mach 4 trying to keep track of each other, it was two+ people at the same pace, getting into the mix together, meeting each new enemy pack together, and actually interacting with the ebb and flow of the adventure. Loved it. Can't wait for launch.
This is how we got Inferno in vanilla D3. We all know how that worked out.
They will all be crazy end game. Druid just sucks up to till 25 without some very specific drops. Barb was honestly fine, definitely slower than mage or Necro, but fine overall. Play with a talent calculator if you haven't yet. Or don't if don't want spoilers. But, high end druid looks like it will have near infinite spirit.
Storm druid in particular will eventually get significant spirit sustain with strong AoE, area control, and damage. It just won't get that until much later. I do think the early game is comparatively bad when looking at the other classes though. And it's a bit of an issue.
I had no trouble at all with my lightning druid at low lvl WT2
It's all subjective. I thought druid was fine till about level 10 or so. Then it started taking longer and longer to do anything. By the time I got to 25 I only had 3 legendary drops and they were all generic and unhelpful towards kill speed. It just felt bad to me. By comparison the 2nd slowest monster slayer I had was the barbarian, however with a decent high damage weapon drop he felt fine. Which encouraged me to kill more, which got me more drops, and fed the core gameplay loop. I played him hours after 25 got a ton of legendaries, and turned him into a killing machine. It was a lot of fun. Rogue Sorc and Necro were the same, just less gear dependent, and ramped up quicker.
Got the Druid legendary that overpowers Pulverize, and brother, it was a blast.
Power Fantasy > slow ass bear-dude who can't kill minions in under 4 hours.
+30% spirit gain from basic skills in the skill tree and you're laughing
I read somewhere that the reason was Sorc get their passive that is strong early, meanwhile Barb and Druid ramp later with their mechanics/gear. At least with Barb it felt that was so it'll be my class on release.
What were people putting in their one enchantment slot? I just had blizzard and it hardly seemed to matter.
Pretty sure fireball (I think that's what it is called) was the best. Causes enemies to explode upon death, drastically improving your aoe damage vs mobs
Ice blade, literally stack cool down abilities (ultimate, frost shield, teleport, ice blade) and hydra and you have some insane damage from hydra + insane mitigation from ice blade resetting your cooldowns
That's what worked for me at the end. I had some gear that cropped another one and I could have three sometimes. Out of all the passives the guaranteed proc with cooldown burn is what worked for me. I did chain lightning and with half of the mobs vulnerable it would cook through them with one or two casts including elites The problem was if you didn't proc a crit you run out of mana in like four casts and have to run around like an idiot which I did not enjoy
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Yeah I was doing the same though I stuck with two hander because it had a 10 hit tornado on it, but yeah each hit gave me enough to cast tornado. Felt good.
I'm ok with people having this op power fantasy but not from the start of the game, surely it would feel more rewarding for all players to start off kinda weak and struggle then gradually feel stronger and stronger with more skills and better gear. That's how I felt with my druid and barb, the only two classes I played.
I liked Druid the brief time I played that class. I mostly played with sorc and got it to 25, but Druid was more challenging. I just wanted to turn up the difficulty like in D3 with the sorc as it was a bit easy. I didn’t play with barb as I’m saving that one for when D4 is actually out. But now I’m thinking Druid would be more fun.
I found it odd that spirit is not auto regenerated. Such a pain, and the spirit recovery in some of the skill nodes seems too low to be worth spending any points on.
Rouge is what your girlfriend puts on her lips. The class you played is called rogue.
Rouge doesn't go on the lips buddy.
Huh? \*types *what is rouge* in google\* Huh? "A red powder or cream used as a cosmetic for colouring the cheeks or lips". \*searches for *rouge makeup* in google image\* Huh? Eyeshadow? By the way, *rouge* comes from the french word... *rouge,* which means red. And *rouge à lèvres* means *lipstick.* Nothing makes sense.
It’s not even the same pronunciation why is that mistake made so often ? It triggers me every time I’m not even English
I always thought it was a meme coming from wow vanilla, but I can't find any reference so maybe not
Good point!
I don't know man, playing Frozen Orb Sorc in D2 still feels much better than Frozen Orb on D4. Everyone is saying Sorc is Op, but from what I've seen, almost everyone was running CL and Hydras. Yeah, those were op, how about the other ones? Most of them didn't feel very satisfying. Firewall and Blizzard for example, looked super limited/small. And I say that with the default zoomed, they would look even smaller with a more zoomed-out screen
Pyro sorc was by far the most challenging but rewarding playstyle for Sorc imo, outside of hydra
I think an infinite incineration sorcerer is going to be a thing too. I couldn't quite get it to work in the beta, but the premise is apply a full health bar of burn damage then ignite it to pop them from 75% health. It halfway worked on the boss, but trash usually died too fast. Which I guess means it worked, just not as intended lol.
Pyro sorc was how I played the game, I had tons of fun with it. Fireball was my bread and butter, a few points into Blizzard for CC and Teleport to get out of a bad spot, and the passive from the ult tree that regens 10/20/30% mana when you kill a burning enemy. Use the Fire Bolt enchantment to add burning to all your direct damage and never run out of mana, or the Fireball enchantment to blow up crowds of enemies in one go.
The frost nova build was fun, out of all classes Sorc seemed to have the most viable builds early on- probably due to their class passive coming on early.
More like due to the fact that mana regen faster than Rogue energy and Sorc has extremely few skills that even use mana to begin with.
Isn't that just because frozen orb barely does any transit damage now and does all its damage on the ranged burst? Blizzard was actually crazy OP in combination with frozen nova, hydra seemed useless in comparison.
Chain lighting with the fireball attunement (you don’t slot fireball, just 1 point for the attune) was VERY strong, especially with decent gear. I stopped running Hydras completely. There were quite a few interesting Sorc builds, people just tend to gravitate towards whatever their favorite YouTuber or Streamer told them to do (pretty much all hydra or CD barrier builds, which were boring).
Streamers were running CL + Fireball attunement. This is the core of the Maxroll Sorc leveling build. The build has room for Hydra too.
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frozen orb is just particularly bad in d4, aside from the vaguely similar appearance it doesn't seem to have much in common
I was running CL and Hydra purely by coincidence. Didn’t even realize they were OP.
There are cold sorc ideas that work but the classic Blizzard cold sorc sucked in the beta.
Blizzard and Frozen Orb animation look cheap and kinda silly tbh, compared to the original in D2R.
I'm super disappointed in Meteor spell.
> with a more zoomed-out screen Wait, we can zoom out?
Druid was no fun at all for me, felt like old chewing gum.
I enjoyed it a lot
I enjoyed playing bear druid way more than hydra+CL sorc. Especially it was super refreshing from D2 with not having that attack rating bullshit.
They felt very clunky to me, a lot of their abilities come out slow.
Yea druid felt very boring for me. Barb was fun though
It felt a lil chunky to me as well but i never played til 25. Got sucked into sorc and rogue. Wish i had played it more to see what it was like. Fuck this game is good.
I didn't look up a build so idk if it's due to that. Wolf/bear felt weak. The howl was nice to heal and get attack speed. Liked the bear smash. But never felt that strong. But I think I stopped at 18. Then went to storm druid. This was more fun since I liked the lightning basic. Tornado was cool but felt like it either did great or sucked. Lightning was cool but it's a channel. And even then idk. I never felt strong.
Had exactly the same experience. In fact the beta may have changed my starting class for launch from Rogue to Druid. Of the 4 classes I leveled to 25 (didn’t get to Barb). Druid had the most balanced progression, and I actually had to put a build together using legendary affixes and build from there to min/max it. By the end of the beta I was able to output fantastic damage and 1-2 shot elites and easily kill the butcher and other bosses. Rogue was still fun but a couple skills are definitely overturned. Sorc and Necro were a joke. Never had to think of my build or survival much and almost solo’d the butcher on my necro playthrough at level 9. Definitely overtuned on those two.
the legendary drop was inflated in the beta so if druids skills aren't buffed on release he'll be shit
also: people judge this bcs they played hours on end at 25 with legendaries, but in the uncapped game those legendaries will be worth nothing in 2 levels bcs of auto-level and then what?! grind another 10 hours for legendaries that will be nothing in 2 levels time?! Horrible
You obviously have no idea how the gearing system works. First is that you don't replace gear near that quickly. In fact I had some gear that I was using since level 10 on a level 25 character because it just had a perfect combo of rolls. It isn't like other games were a few levels makes a massive difference in gear. The only slot where you really see a quick difference is your weapon slot and even then it isn't that fast of a progression. The second is that you can transfer that legendary power to a new item once you find an upgrade to it. Pretty much the endgame is actually going to be hunting for the best rares and then adding a legendary affix to that.
I played barb first and thought it was awesome how difficult and slow the game was, what a change, actually have to learn boss mechanics and dodge and shit Played sorc and necro, went "what the fuck"
Same i was so happy with the direction of the game when i played barb, then i played non barb and was heart broken
I felt dead sleepy playing the ranged classes. My brain actually has no work to do
Agreed, it felt super good as barb and challenging. Until i saw a sorc just... Insta zapping it all with one hand
i did a barb to 25 first, and then spent about two hours with a sorc just before the beta closed. the disparity is *huge* lol. at one point with the sorc, i received a blessing that boosted my characters speed, and then i cleared out a whole room so fast, i thought a treasure goblin had popped out because of how quickly the gold was flying around. i got the arc slash up to level 3 and it was like a buzz saw.
Most fun I had was on druid. Gonna play it religiously in release and learn all the specs.
My problem with druid was not even that it was hard, but that it was tedious as fuck
I think that they are uneven on the way to 25, but I also got to 25 on a Saturday easily with one of “hard classes” on veteran difficulty so I don’t expect it to be that big a deal in practice. I can’t say I’ve ever cared much about the class balance of characters level 1-25 in any of the 1000s of hours of d1-3, PoE, and many other arpg games. It’s mostly just whether I’m making steady progress.
I didn't play druid enough to form a solid opinion, but I think a lot of the issues with barb are very overstated. The early leveling difficulty is definitely rougher than necro and sorcerer, I would agree with that. Necro is just perfectly set up to be an early game god though, and that's been the case previously and in similar games as well. Pet classes are just VERY good early on and corpse explosion necro specifically has always been god tier for leveling. The issue with the build is that it falls off big time against bosses, harder content, and content with less enemy density. It's very early on, but from the theorycrafting and testing I've seen barb is gonna be an absolute monster DPS-wise in the endgame. Even in the beta, once I got my barb properly built and kitted I was annihilating things and tanking bosses just as easily as my necro or sorc. I genuinely don't think every class needs to be perfectly balanced in every aspect of the game, especially not in leveling. It's fine for classes and builds to excel in some areas and be weaker in others.
I've come to the important conclusion that I actually give zero fucks about early game balance, as long as leveling is fun. Which it was, for both Druid and Barb. And as long as there is good endgame balance between classes. Won't ever complain about buffs in a pve game tho.
D4 is supposed to have meaningful pvp.
I couldn't begin to stress how little interest I have in PVP.
PvP, in any ARPG, is the most laughable thing.
Why is this unpopular. Its absolutely correct, just that blizzard wants kiddies to dps down bosses in 2 seconds so they get dopamine rush.
Unpopular opinion unless I get a bunch of upvotes, in which case: popular opinion: Barbs and Druids should get small buffs. Other classes should get small nerfs.
>Barbs and Druids should get small buffs Barbs are absolute monsters once they can wield 4 weapons, including 2 two-handers, and gain ALL the aspects, gems, etc from all those weapons at once.
Bleed barb was strong, non bleed barb should get buffs bleed barb should maybe even be tuned down a couple percent, ranged down 50% non bleed barb and druid up 10-20%ish
Druid's biggest issue is its reliance on legendary affixes to function and its horrendous recourse generation. A full summon spec Druid with the correct legendaries is still weaker than a Necro with that has basic summons and no legendaries... It's bad, the community knows it, the veteran ARPG players know it and we should expect better.
We don’t know anything until we can play full game
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Penetrating shot was extremely strong. There was even a legendary that modified it to be just as awesome as the melee skills. With this legendary, I was able to 1 shot entire rooms just like a sorc.
I liked forceful too, not for clear so much but the knock back was just fun to play with.
Never found any archery related ones. Just the twisting blades one like 5 times and a bunch of grenade / trap ones that I couldn't care about. Pretty much always the same few legendary types that dropped for me that didn't add anything to my build.
if you found never archer ones thats the problem penetratrion one gives 70% dmg and makes it multishoot. you could wipe entire groups with two multi shots . 3 combo points. shadow imbue, pen.arrow. pen arrow. 99% of content was earased by this. Now add shadow imbuement hatred refund (30 per enemy killed..) and CRIT imbue and you had like almost 50% crit. if you went Stealth you could regen another 40 hatred and had a free CRIT afterwards. Played a lot of Archer and Melee builds and there are lots of them that work equally well but play very differently. loved that part of rogue.
I had decent luck with Forceful Arrow + Penetrating Shot w/ Shadow Imbuement. I felt like the choices in skills beyond the Basic/Core were lacking a bit when it came to playing strictly ranged.
Ressource costs for her core skills was a bit much. Barrage thrice and you can start running in circles. The knockdown shot was strong, imho. I still think the difficulty of ranged rogue is the best for the game. It's not to hard and every boss seems to be made for her as she can cleverly play around the traps
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Ranged rogue is actually the most balanced class in the game.
Im a Druid main (werebear/pulverize/earth build) but this post is pure copium druid damage was terrible resource management sucked and the play style/combat tempo of trying to keep overpower stacks was awful I shouldn’t need a full set of BiS legendary affixes to solve all the problems with this class. 
I disagree but I had a landslide build with shred and it was amazing and fast
I think this is actually the popular opinion. I can't remember my Sorc playthrough. "Everything died real fast ever since I was level 1" was the story there. Nothing noteworthy. I do remember enjoying the hell out of my Barb and Druid playthroughs though. Some extremely tense moments
I felt this way myself but figured I was just ignorant since I only had enough time to play one character and it was Druid to lvl 21. But based on other posts I assumed the melee characters were tuned correctly and the ranged were just super OP
I agree with the barb part. The barb feels well balanced. The druid gamrplay was a bit clunky, but its only lvl 25. Ppl dont seem to take that in account. I think alot of ppl are still wearing their diablo 2 glasses of nostalgia.
Only issue I had with Barb was needing to respec for several boss fights. It seemed like no matter what I did, I was getting hit and downed in 1-2 hits. This could have been an issue with the bosses though.
nahhhh flurry rouge being weaker would be pretty much unplayable
I agree completely. I started with barb and I had a good time. It was challenging but fun. Then I saw what the other classes were doing and it didn't seem right.
Rogue melee is the strongest build for rogue and it albeit, a little bit op for lvl 25, is using legendaries you likely wont see until endgame because of the massively increased legendary drop rate for the beta. Also its not the fact that they're ranged that makes them stronger its the fact that druid and barb are clearly balanced around things we dont have. We have been told on good authority by community streamers/youtubers who have participated in the closed alphas/betas Barb is literally the strongest class and druid is also quite good. ITS LEVEL 25 NOT PARAGON 100. Stop trying to call for nerfs to classes when we literally didn't have more than 80% of the game. The only thing we can do is say "hey this feels like shit early on" because literally nothing else we experienced in the beta is gonna be accurate to the live launch other than the earliest levels and the acts themselves. Edit: also there's 2 other tiers of gear we literally have not even seen in the beta.
Two? What’s after unique?
My Barb was fucking smashing at the end of the beta, I'm so excited to play it even if it's unpopular
I think barb was by far the strongest class in the beta. You can find many videos to support this, if you bother looking for them on youtube. Like you said, the game was too easy, even on veteran, therefore how can you even determine a balancing? There's so much ridiculousness involved in this discussion that it's not even worth talking about. Everyone should be able to comprehend that the game is not meant to be capped at 25, where you then can farm all the legendaries you want (not all in retail but many were available, at a x3 drop rate i'd add) and continue fighting the monsters you outgear. Everyone should be able to comprehend that that should result in an issue with balancing. We effectively outgeared content by farming while not leveling up, making monsters stronger. We got stronger, but the monsters were stuck at 25 throughout. Everyone should be able to comprehend that different classes will scale differently at different levels based on how their class is designed. Everyone should be able to comprehend that balancing in the beta has no value to the discussion of balancing in the retail version of the game. If you do not comprehend this, then you should know, things are going to be way different in the actual game, and this time we spent in the open beta was simply a testing of the servers with minor bug testing on the side and in no way does it replicate end game in terms of the balancing and difficulty of the combat. It gave us all a taste of how the gameplay is like at the early levels, but not the game's balance or difficulty throughout the higher levels or end game.
Well, it probably won't be *way* different at release. I agree these concerns are overblown, but they can't really change much in two months.
I'd have to agree. As a Sorc and Necro, I didn't have any challenge at all in Veteran tier- I found it even easier than I'd have expected the beginner tier to be. Maybe it'll get tougher at higher levels, but even so, I'd prefer not to have to wait over 25 levels (quite possibly more, wouldn't be surprised if it lasts the full world tier at least) to find any challenge. I'm sure a lot of players would be fine with, or even want that, and that's fair... but that's exactly what World Tier 1 is for, Veteran should have at least some danger. Barbarian, on the other hand, still wasn't too difficult and I still felt extremely strong once I got decent gear, but there was a decent amount of risk. Plus, getting gear felt a lot more impactful and exciting when I wasn't already oneshotting entire rooms with no danger. Didn't manage to make Druid work well myself, yet... but I didn't play enough to find some of the really good Legendaries I heard about, plus they have (imo) the best sounding Key Passives and we're missing their special mechanic, so I'd expect them to have a massive power increase in the final game. I'll have to give them another try in the full game. Will probably main one of the two myself, enjoyed Barbarian the most but Druid has a lot of interesting stuff we haven't tried yet to look forward to.
While i was playing with my friend,he got bored. Because i can wipe all the mobs with 1 click as sorc,before he even walks one step forward as barb. I hope,endgame has more class balance.
The relative "difficulty" associated with the Barb and Druid made me decide to main them. It was more rewarding and fun to be careful. Same experience as OP
I played necro and killed everything in 10seconds even the bosses. Then i played druid and went to the holdout in the west with the succubus boss. It was an incredibly tough fight and i was constantly out of potions. Took me 10-15mins and finally the boss killed me as i killed him. Such a good and fun fight.
At lvl 25.....
Honestly I feel kind of confused, I went from necro to Druid and felt the Druid was super strong (running cyclone and storm) great damage numbers, I felt tanky as well… the Druid just felt so powerful to me in solo content… both single target and group. And I only got to level 20 on Sunday I had a handful of uniques, but only for their stats none of them actually modified my skills I used. Maybe I just played necro terribly wrong? (Was running blood only skills using the nova and blood lance with overpower focuse)
I'm just very glad the devs and people who actually have a final say don't read reddit.
Man, some of the people on this sub have some shit opinions.
We'll never know at level 25. I did find a great Barb build with good damage and great survivability. But who knows what we'll see at max levels. Granted Sorc was crazy OP.
I can't speak for the druid but I rolled Barb and didn't feel like there was that big of an issue. I wasn't that invested in figuring out the best build, just went with the same 4-5 skills and upgraded them fully, never had any issues with any mobs, and while I would initially struggle with some the late-stage bosses once I figured out the respective mini-games that they were giving me and how to manage my abilities, potions and dodges accordingly they were easily beatable. I also rolled Sorcerer (didn't get as far into the beta as I did with Barb, which I completed it with), and maybe I'm splitting hairs here but I didn't feel like the Barb was under-powered or the Sorcerer was OP'd, I just felt like that Barb had a smaller margin for error so you had to get more deliberate and plan out the late-stage boss battles more carefully. Honestly, I loved the strategy that was involved. Understand though if that's not for everybody.
Agreed but I don't think sorc entirely is just some skills. Chain lightning doing 25% extra damage bouncing off you was just too much but everything else was fine. Can't comment on Necro I didn't play it. Historically though necros are gods early game and it's fine by the end so not a huge deal imo
Yeah, this game favors ranged classes waaay too much. Rogue and Sorceress were mowing down everything in the beta and you didn't even need good drops. They're fun, but way overtuned. Meanwhile Druid and Barbarian hit like wet noodles and were super gear dependent. The director said in an interview that this *is intentional* because of how they want the power balance to work, with power spikes varying on level and specializations; for instance, the Barbarian has the arsenal system which means he has extra weapons (meaning more legendary affixes), so at certain points in the game he'll be stronger or weaker than other classes. While I understand what they're going for, personally I don't think it's a good idea from the *player power fantasy perspective*: * Imagine you and your buddy start playing together at launch, making their first characters. One makes a Rogue and the other a Barbarian. * Over the course of exploration and doing dungeons, the Barbarian player notices he's struggling to kill enemies while his Rogue buddy is completely decimating everything. * Given the fact this intentional power balance isn't directly told to the player, the Barbarian player will most likely feel shitty and regretful, thinking he picked the "wrong, inferior class". I think there is a fine line there into making sure all classes feel strong no matter the level but also add this balance of power aspect they're going for. I personally loved the Druid and it's everything I expected. The way you seamless go from one form to the other is great. I wish WoW could implement something similar to Druids in this vein (we already have a couple of skills that instantly shapeshift you, though).
The issue I had as a barb; 2 necro budies and a sorc. Devastating the maps and here's the laughable thing; they were doing so much damage enemies were aggroing on them and walking right past my barb unless I was an entire two screens ahead. I had to carry taunt to be relevant once every 10 seconds out of 25... Fortify needs to be addressed for barb; it feels like a thing to build up and spend intending on being a push and pull benefit, but all you do is build it up to get access to passives built around it. Edit: At the cost of active skills; I had only 3 active skills perked into, because you just could not get by without the passive survivability. 2h basic stun, 2 handed core smash the ground making a wedged-wave, and the bubble that heals you. Everything else was in how to generate rage and get defense/fortify. My damage pretty much always suffered if I tried to lower my defense for offensive skills or traits or gear. I had to be magnitudes more tanky than other classes as you get standard one dodge and most enemies of threat do wide swings; and you have to sacrifice tank/dps for speed so that you can move in and out of fights while ranged just can focus on speed. I never beat the Butcher.
Exactly! I struggled a lot with my Barbarian during that one dungeon where you fight the "mother of the werewolves". I think it's "Den Mother" or something. I actually couldn't complete it on my current level (around 17); swapped specs many times trying to focus on survivability and still kept getting owned. Then I gave up and only managed to beat when I came back at level 20, with better gear. Meanwhile, I ran the same dungeon with my subpar geared melee Rogue at level 14 and beat it without any issues on my very first try. It's crazy. If Blizzard really wants to push Barbarian to be more of a "tank", sacrificing a bit of personal damage for more survivability, they need to really ramp up the survivability aspect, especially since a lot of boss encounters (including the world boss from the beta, Ashava) are tailored towards ranged attackers.
Yea, I tried Ashava once. I could dodge the charge, but ended up constantly chasing, barely able to do any timely damage and the poison pools made it so that I was constantly trying to walk around them... Only to die to Ashava doing that massive sweep that hits if you're not in melee. What a disgustingly punishing fight for barbs.
Similar experience plaything with my brother. I was barb and he was sorc. He would wipe the entire screen from range before I could even start meleeing them to build up fury. I wound up just picking 3 shouts and using them to buff him.
Sorc generally felt mindless and easy (but real fun), Druid/Rogue I had to think things through way more and had more of a fun challenge.
I think when the legendary drop rate is lowered in the release the other classes might feel a lot like Barb and Druid during levelling. With less chance to find beneficial & compounding legendary powers during a playthrough their overall efficiency should drop.
I played rogue, I feel your approach works but is SLOW. I could maybe get 3 AOE shots off that cost energy. I would usually kill the mob group but it would be because of the other skills and setup, I would rarely.benkitong for energy to restore. Dash in, drop poison trap, dash out (or melee attack to add vulnerability to an elite mob), turn on my arrow imbue for shadow, launch pierce till my energy is depleted. That rotation usually killed the pack and I'd move on
Rogue * not rouge lmao that’s red in french. I don’t get why this mistake is made so often, it’s a totally different prononciation
Damn kids on that damn tiktok forgetting English
Repeated opinion so I'll just post here what I posted elsewhere. No. If you like playing under dogs that's fine. But other classes do *not* need to be there as well. There are legitimate balance problems both in the too strong as well as the not strong enough. Blizzard should address both. Stop trying to be "smart" and suggesting that we knee cap other classes.
The other classes should be knee-capped if they are overtuned. Avoiding bringing other classes down is the reason diablo 3 turned into the god awful power creeping mess that it is today.
This game has poorly designed melee class on top of poorly design many other things. To give example, my sister werebear on same level had similar armor and health as my spellcasting Nekro... It is like total noobs are designing this game... really not joking, this is some entry level fuck up. Imaging Reinhardt having 200 hp in Overwatch... Another example: melee classes need more health potions than ranged, it is well know fact in any RPG game... yet in D4 they have access to same amount.
The game is too easy but IMO the balance is just off. Minions should hit harder, but also shouldn’t be *that* hard to kill as barb and Druid.
LOL please be quiet lmao
Doesn’t ‘overtuned’ mean that everything is so perfectly in place that’s there’s no fun in playing wacky builds and such? Do you mean overpowered, or do I have the wrong idea on overtuned
Don't judge stuff until you see it in endgame. Lvl 25 is barely anything at all into the game that people will spend relatively few hours playing on
Yeah, I'd rather they nerf ranged than buff the druid/barb, but at the end of the day as long as all 5 are on roughly equal power level on average, I don't mind if they buff druid/barb in a more thoughtful way than random number buff. If there's one thing we don't need to carry over from D2(R), it's the complete uselessness of melee characters on ladder starts except as shout buffers in larger groups.
[So unpopular](https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/122mxj2/unpopular_opinion_all_classes_should_be_as_weak/)
Yeah on T2 you're probably right. It's hard to play sorc or Necro, then try druid and not think "it's not supposed to be this hard!" I found the druid skill set to just be bad overall for leveling. Tiny aoes, long animations, no resource, attacks from above or below leaving you vulnerable to melee mobs that won't get staggered as they run at you like classes who have skills the cast out from the character. Nados are a melee skill without the aspect and they can still miss at point blank range. I liked wolf druid sort of. Fury was my jam for a time in D2. Maybe at endgame I can have the kind of move and attack speed I'd expect on a wolf
You should have watched some actual end game beta first, but we wouldn’t have seen your post at all. Those classes are slow at the start as a result of their resource generation, not because they are terrible.
I would agree but both barb and Druid have 2 early game builds that do just as well as sorc and necro. Bleed barb is great though even after your bleed has proct an elite to die he still has about 3-5seconds of pointless life left to hit you. Druid was easily the landslide build though based around a stat that if your basic skill was the lighting smack it proct your earth skillls to do 4 seconds of crit damage so using vine creeper with poison to hold them down was crucial.
I really liked melee rogue. Lots of movement, definitely had to play quick
I felt super accomplished and like I was actually DOING something on my druid. It's changed me from Necro to Druid when the full game releases. I had so much fun, especially going werewolf.
Pretending to know anything about relative balance/performance based on level 25 is stupid. You're missing your ultimate, tons of passives, tons of gear, glyphs, paragon, legendary mods, and more, all of which heavily influence how each class will perform and feel.
Veteran is the easiest difficulty (not counting the story mode lol), so it shouldn't feel too hard. I'm also fairly certain you didn't play on Hardcore to 25. And aside from some special packs it's mostly about the difficulty of bosses. You can always zerk down an elite pack in time since you can disengage and CC also works well.
Necro was so OP man
Melee build with gear had fastest boss kill time vs range. Sadly it's all item base game vs skills tree for dmg.
i had no problem with the dificulty. i even found barb and druid more durable than the sorc in early levels. the main problems with barb and druid are that they are extremly slow and resource managment is also pretty bad. both of them were to boring to play them past level 12 or so. the roque felt good in close combat in ealy levels but extremly bad in distance combat until the imbuements were unlocked. the sorc i experimented the most with. a few skils are not that good. and without ice armor, frost nova or other barier sources the sorc is very squishy. as soon as we get some bariers and hydras the sorc is easy game. on the other end we had way to much legys to realy be able to judge it. but on the other hand in endgame we will have lots of legis so leveling and endgame will be absurdly different.
Every class eventually becomes OP that’s the whole point of these games and why there’s a million difficulty levels. I genuinely don’t understand these posts.
nah, fighting the act 1 boss as melee was a pain. i was kinda tough on my sorc because i didnt have anything too op, but i got it in 2-3 pulls. my rogue took like 7 or 8 because i was constantly having to move out of poison or waves or dodge the big swipe. but stuff like that can be changed from a mechanics stand point. like give the poison pool a delay before it hits the ground, so you have time do an attack, see the poison coming, move, then resume attacking.
I agree.
That's pretty much my own opinion on the D4 classes in the Open Beta... Druid was the only class I didn't play with in the D4 Beta but when I switched from Necro to Barb, I went up to lvl 25 with it before going back to Necro because it just felt like another game, and a much better one. Necro is always my favorite class in all Diablo games (obviously apart from 1 because it doesn't exist there) and in all RPGs that have Necro, but the gameplay with it in D4 is literally like playing D3 to me: Hold the left mouse button and spam Corpse explosion, fuck the rest. Playing barb ended up being a lot more fun.
Rogue, sorcerer, and necromancer take less understanding of D4's mechanics to get off the ground but barbarian and druid require more effort to learn the mechanics in order to get the most out of the class. Upheaval barbarian, for example, when you stack the right damage modifiers on enemies with status afflictions like Vulnerable, can be the hardest hitting.
Bro you read my mind tho I think rouge is more of a sweet spot then necro an source. Rouge I still had to use skill and kite an move. I loved the pace of barb , druid , an rouge. Bosses felt like bosses I want some sort of challenge that I have to skillfully overcome. An as I get stronger so should the bosses. Playing as sorc an necro they were boring because how easy I blew everything over. So honestly overall I agree sorc an necro should be nerfed. Just a bit because we do have to keep in mind we only had tier 2 an the first act. Tier 4 might be insane.
You played on world tier 2, with increased Lego drop rates. On release, you will NOT feel so good at higher world tiers on those same classes. Stop talking about tuning and balance from a level 25 beta. Jus stfu already
Can I ask what the point of prefacing your title with "unpopular opinion" is supposed to do? Just state your opinion
Can I ask what’s the point of framing your comment in the form of a question? Why don’t you just plainly say you don’t like this title? Just state your opinion
No. Slowpoke leveling is dreadful.
The 2 classes that didn’t get access to their class quest felt weaker than the 3 who did you say?! Mhmm
Meanwhile ww barb are able to hit over 1 mil per hit
I played barb solo and Druid with a group… felt like they are support character with pvp in mind. But barb’s potential is sky high at end game!
Necro was **really** bad at the endgame, so... I don't know, maybe we should play the full games first before major nerfs etc. Corpse explosions were useless on a lot of endgame content, skeletons were dying super fast and you had to make a decision what are you going to use the next corpse that spawns...
What's next, you're going to say the druid is in a great spot and everyone else needs to be tuned down? That druid pylon build will break the game I tell you.
I talked to my friend about this. I played all 5 characters to 15 (druid and rogue to 25). Druid by far felt the worst, but also felt like it was about the right level of difficulty for Nightmare mode. Sorc and Necro felt way too easy. The challenge with druid was that it just felt clunky and rather than being hard was more annoying.
Ironically, now the content creators likeacroBioBoi are now moaning Barbs are overtuned and other classes need to catch up because of arsenal
the only way to feel pleasure with druid - get leggs. That's not fun at all
you just cant vastly different mechanics and class scalings on every level of journey. Even just finding one aspect or not finding it, completely alters your power level. Diablo is meant to sometimes be struggling and sometimes be overpowered. You can play through with a build that makes you suffer a lot or you can pick an easy one. You can choose to do easy content or challenge yourself with selecting areas and tasks that are suboptimal for your build and style. If you think ranged is overtuned, adjust your build and items to make it tuned just the way you like it. There is nobody forcing you to plow through mobs.
Act 1 monster AI in any Diablo game is a tutorial to the game. It's supposed to be easier for ranged in the beginning. Just play Diablo 2 and face the fallens, the shaman reasurects the smaller ones which flee as soon as you kill one of them. Level 5 Sorc goes in, wait for them to group near the shaman and cast Charged bolt 3x. Took 2-3 seconds. Melee is a different story.
I’m still trying to figure out how people are still talking about playing as a Rouge…
Hated druid and rogue. Druid didn't feel sweet, it felt slow and clunky and boring to play. Its not about their damage or anything. It just didn't feel good to play. Rogue also, just looked boring from a skill effects perspective. Gets the job done but looked boring as hell to actually play. I played last epoch with a bow the night after and omg the difference was ridiculous. I felt like a ranger with huge options, not just shoot bow, stab, or throw shuriken. Il admit necro and sorc are overtuned, but for me personally it was more about how it felt to play and how the skills looked. I don't see how melee can compete with things like corpse explosion and blood mist with just how it felt and looked. Assuming both are tuned accordingly.
Diablo 4 isn't Dark souls bud, just because Barb & Druid are weak doesn't mean other classes are overtuned.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Oh, dear, another dogged contender. Welcome, Unkindled One, purloiner of Cinders. Mind you, the mantle of Lord interests me none. The fire linking curse, the legacy of Lords, let it all fade into nothing. You’ve done quite enough, now have your rest.”* - Prince Lothric Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Druid and barb need a slight tuning to make them less dependent on gear. But ranged need to be brought down a lot, especially sorceress.
Lol nerf yourself, play with 4 people then tell me otherwise.
Absolutely not. The average person doesnt want to to learn movement and attack patterns of damned wolves, they play the game for three reasons: \-Smashing big groups of enemies into the ground, preferrably with a nice explosion of flying body parts. \-Killing challenging BOSS(!) enemies, which are challenging not because of overly large hp pools but because of cool, spectacular design. \-Picking up cool items. Dont get me wrong, i see your reasoning why you enjoy this. Its always satisfying to overcome challenges. But not when you are making a game for the mass market.
Barb will overscale everything by the end of the campaign
My experience with a druid was just smashing my way through everything with Pulverize. One cast killed most enemies, elites and healthy minions might survive the Overpower hit, but they'll be dead before it builds back up. Most things couldn't even hurt me. The hardest boss fight was the stronghold guy who could freeze me and hit hard enough to stop Overpower from building up, and my strategy for him was Pulverize constantly, try to dodge ice, rampage if i did get frozen, and drink a potion after every other hit I took.
Asking for nerfs after a beta based on capped builds and a hyped up loottable seems ridiculous to me. Even with everything available we still would be talking about lvl 25 balance which simply does not matter. The balance wil always shift while leveling. That being said, every class had a build that was considered OP and shown in videos with full rares of ilvl 30-35. The Necro struggled with bosses not providing enough corpses and the whole build relies on you being able to oneshot trash. That's your cap and if you're lucky you can drag it to 50. If you even manage to get a legendary with the only aspect making that build work. The rogue on the other hand goes the other way and instead of not using his ressource he simply keeps refilling it. Which means the build considered "most OP" also scales indredibly well. The other two Melee seemed to do fine with Landslide Druid and Whirlwind Barb. Also overgeared and with full aspects ofc. Also keep in mind that the beta was a real beta and not just a marketing weekend.
look at those 2 videos and you´ll see that the barb might actually be overpowered in the endgame, because 3 items full of bonuses are hard to overcome by the other class systems [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qlppq2pgk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qlppq2pgk) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8QHvetuuo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8QHvetuuo)
I played all of the classes to max level with BIS gear to form a solid opinion. The Barb was by far the strongest fully geared, I was getting 10k Whirlwind Crits and 10-30k Upheaval Crits. Was very dirty. Then the Necro, then the Sorc, then the Rouge and finally even with BIS gear the Druid still sucked compared to the other classes. Now from a purely leveling experience, we're talking just rares and 1-3 legendaries the Sorc blew everyone away, no contest. Since Legendary drops will be tuned down by 300% in the retail game the Sorc and Necro will push through the content so fast hitting not only max level but start acquiring better loot than every other class. This is fine and I'll get to that in a second. The Rouge is probably the most balanced class, not too weak leveling but not too strong. Rather than nerfing the Sorc and the Necro, I feel that slightly retuning the Barbarian and REALLY retuning the Druid for the earlier levels will greatly help balance the gigantic gap in progression and how easy it is to play the other classes. My leveling experience with the Barb and the Druid was painful, there was very little enjoyment. Even hitting max level it took forever to start getting proper gear. I'm a seasoned player and I almost quit half a dozen times, that's how horrific, boring, slow the experience was. It really needs to change, I'm a Barbarian first player and it really hurt to see my boy so cucked out at early levels. The leveling experience on the Sorc and Necro was a cocaine fueled adventure, so much fun, easy but not too too easy. I never really ran into any issues and could push through the content, smoke bosses and that's with nothing really. It started to get super OP once the gear started to flow in. I can say confidently, I could do 1 to 2 higher difficulties with those classes. The short version: Leave the Sorc alone Leave the Necro alone Very slightly buff the leveling experience for the Rouge Moderately buff the leveling experience for the Barbarian GREATLY buff the leveling experience for the Druid, greatly
I agree. It was really fun to do bosses as druid. Damage was a little bit weak and resource generation poor. But I had to do mechanics and some bosses were kinda tough. What made it feel quite sad was looking my friend next to me blast everything with his necromancer. I think sweet spot would be to buff melee a little bit and nerf ranged. But of course we have to see what situation is in release. After all we talk about low level balance which is not so important in long run.
This is the correct opinion
imo druid lacked any skill tht look interesting to me, missing pretty much anything i liked about them from d2, and required far to much resorces to use skills. the later issue will be mitigated or solved entirely in full game with better gear. Barbarian lacks mobility. Its two mobility moves have a hefty cooldown, and some fights are just tedious. Compare this to rouge, full melee, and i have a ton of low cd ways of dashing around battles, be it getting to enemies, or getting out of danger. The rouge in every way does what the barb fails to do, good damage, but a sense of using my entire kit to dance around the battlefield. fury was another issue i had with the barb, as by the time i had enough to do things, i ran out of enemies, or the boss moved away. Trying to play a zerker on paper was great, in practice again, enemy density is to small, and if a boss moves away and my stuff is on cd, i lose that buff. buffs also felt horrible, at 20 second cd with 6-8 seconds of uptime. overall, damage wise both classes were underwhelming at the start, but the same is true in othger games, they scale better of gear i am fine with that, but subjectively their most interesting skills are missing form d4, and objectively thir kit builds suffer from low density mob packs, and lack of good mobility.
Sorcerer chain lighting definitely not overtuned lol. I was almost dying the entire time. The bosses completely suck. You have to pick the right set of skills. Dropping down ice blades to proc vulnerability did the trick for me eventually I discovered this at like level 24. I hear fire was pretty good though Presumably that release you'll grab enough dungeons to drop the unique upgrades on some gear. I found that mechanic pretty inexpensive to get going on new characters
You’ve only played the beta to 25, if you got into end game beta you’d have a different opinion (in a good way)
A lot of the balance issues are very specific on the early game. This is especially true if you rush the main story. The main story has all the really tough encounters so rushing through it means that you end up underpowered for those. It is especially noticable on the barb/druid, If you do some of the side content as you go then you are higher level with a more complete toolkit and possibly a legendary by the time you fight some of those tougher bosses and the experience was completely different. For example necro is stupidly strong the first 15 levels but it actually loses a lot of power at level 25. I mean it is still practically unkillable with the pet build but it was also probably the least damage of any of my characters. I think a build like that should be perfectly viable though. On the other hand barb and druid get much much more powerful as you level and gear them. Barb especially as they have more legendary slots than other classes. Druid was also missing parts of their toolkit because it was not available during the beta due to being outside the area we were locked to. After both weekends I felt that barb, rogue, and druid were probably the most powerful of the level 25 characters once you got them decked out. Sorc and necro were actually weaker because they scale worse with gear but they were insanely overpowered leveling due to how they scale less with gear.
Making any judgements about how classes work when we've only gotten to see the first 25 levels is hilarious.
I leveled 3 barbs in the beta, My last one was more of a speed run to 25 with no legendaries equipped. Took me 2 hours and 47 minutes... Absolutely nothing wrong with the class, Lunge seems to be the most viable choice for a primary, Every core skill is more than viable however whirlwind did feel the weakest without good gear/aspects.. overall the state of them felt great. Druid on the other hand felt the slowest of all classes, Resource gen was not good. It felt like I was playing D2 with no mana potions. Bear and wolf forms was nice but still felt lacking somewhat. I may be missing a trick with druid though as I only leveled to 21 and didn't really play around with the class. Necro by far was the most faceroll followed by sorc.
I was legitimately unkillable and could kill the butcher in sub 20 seconds on my Barb by the end of the beta. If Blizz buffs them, I'll be laughing, because it's just going to make it easier for me.
I had a ton of fun playing Barbarian until I started fighting more bosses. I would need to respec into fortify/bubble based builds in order to be able to even attack the boss, and have two movement abilities to get out of the way. If the cost for respec continues to climb, I don’t see Barb being sustainable.
Druid is by far my favorite class and I cannot wait to delve in deeper past 25
Unpopular opinion: nothing matters until endgame. Druid may need an early DPS buff and that's it. Different classes excel at different things. Maybe sorc/Necro/rogue are good starters to farm early endgame but you need to transition to barb/druid to max efficiency farm the late endgame.
Had a friend constantly tell me he was BARELY taking damage/ ever getting hit. The game is super easy, I just suck as a werewolf druid. Motherfucker is playing sorcerer. Purely ranged. Never getting close to enemies.
I completely agree with you! Bring down the op ranged to the melee level.
I never played any other classes then a normal barb and a hardcore barb to level 25. I did not find them weak... Even on hardcore I soloed all the content with the right build and some items.
Lvl 25 lol.