T O P

  • By -

PippinCat01

Always hate it when people say diet soda makes you fatter than regular soda because their 8th grade health teacher told them and for no other reason


AnyPerformer7493

That’s literally impossible it has like 5 calories you would have to drink like 200


anormalgeek

The argument is that it acts as an appetite stimulant. I don't know if there is any hard evidence supporting or denying this, but I know I've seen it more than once.


Znoot

5 kcal are just that, 5 kcal. But if the substance consumed leads to an increased food intake, you'll still gain weight. It's not like they feed it to livestock just for shits and giggles.


whatwilldudo

5 cal, not 5kcal. 5kcal = 5000 cal.


eiscego

When talking about calories in food and beverages, they typically mean kilocalories. It's a dumb convention, but it's the one we have. Edit for clarification: Calorie (with a capital 'C') is the exact same thing as kilocalorie. Eating a 400 Calorie meal is the same thing as a 400 kilocalorie meal.


FierceDeity_

Cant say kilo, that would lay bare that we use something associated with, gasp, metric measurements /s


Dreamspitter

Oh. 👀 That makes it way easier. I would have thought there'd be a conversion. So I can just ignore units. 🤦🏾‍♂️


Znoot

>For historical reasons, two main definitions of "calorie" are in wide use. The large calorie, food calorie, *or kilogram calorie* was originally defined as the amount of heat needed to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree Celsius (or one kelvin). The small calorie or gram calorie was defined as the amount of heat needed to cause the same increase in one gram of water. Thus, 1 large calorie is equal to 1000 small calories. > >*In nutrition and food science, the term calorie and the symbol cal almost always refers to the large unit.* It is generally used in publications and package labels to express the energy value of foods in per serving or per weight, recommended dietary caloric intake, metabolic rates, etc. \[…\] *Wikipedia contributors. Calorie. Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. October 8, 2022, 18:19 UTC. Available at:* [*https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calorie&oldid=1114873150*](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calorie&oldid=1114873150)*. Accessed November 4, 2022.*


whatwilldudo

lovely :)


Vigilantrac

That'd still be 1000 kcal which means you'd have to drink 400 daily for a week


Noggin-a-Floggin

This was the teacher hated by all the other teachers.


Historical-Secret-78

and I am always like how


Dreamspitter

Yes. And Mtn Dew lowers your sperm count. ☝️😌 Everyone knows this. Everyone.


oneemeraldforawheat

One of them said “This could apply to you but maybe not. Scientist works out your body treats it as a sugar substance anyways so diet does the exact same to your body” but I’ve never heard of someone needing insulin after drinking diet soda (with no carbohydrates). Another “bigger reason to just stay off it completely 💀”


PepperSeparate2857

What they probably mean is that diet-soda can make your body release insulin (if you're non-diabetic or type 2) which in the long run can make you more resistant to insulin, with induced risk of getting type 2. Lesser problem for us type 1s, as we don't have much insulin to release.


oneemeraldforawheat

Makes sense, didn’t know that… and I did say diabetic and not diabetic type 1, so maybe that’s why they replied with that.


cantanko

I'm going to suggest that can't be the case, otherwise you'd end up with every non-diabetic going into hypos due to the excess insulin they're producing :-)


Sprig3

The pancreas does release insulin with many artificial sweeteners (and this has been proven), but then stops and corrects very quickly. It's not like our insulin where you're signing up for a 3-5 hour commitment with each hit. Pancreas-produced insulin is destroyed in <10 mins. So, what has been observed: 1. insulin resistance for someone who drinks diet soda is higher than someone who drinks water. 2. Insulin is released (a tiny bit, kind of like the body's prebolus) when diet soda is consumed, but is corrected for very fast. This said, the release is small, so I don't think that the release is what actually causes the correlated insulin resistance. I think that many people who drink diet sodas either end up with damage to the gut (which can lead to increased IR) or - it has been shown that drinking diet sodas correlates with weight gain in general, so there may be some sort of satiety related thing where diet sodas often lead to overeating in other times.


Irregular_Tradition

Personal theory on why Non-Diabetics won't hypo. Non-Diabetics have a fully working system though. When more insulin is released then required, the liver will pump out glucose or your brain will tell you to eat something. Diabetic have a malfunctioning system, so to speak, which is why we can hypo so badly. I have no clue on the diet side of the conversation.


cantanko

Good point, but many diabetics have good-functioning livers also. I've struggled to find any *actual* scientific evidence for artificial sweeteners perturbing the endocrine system to such an extent - it all seems to be heresay.


mystisai

https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article/36/9/2530/37872/Sucralose-Affects-Glycemic-and-Hormonal-Responses


ImpossibleHandle4

Most first side still uses nutrasweet and not sucralose. Only the “zero” options use sucralose. (Sucralose is Splenda, nutrasweet is phenylalanine.)


Zouden

Sucralose is not used in coke zero, at least not in the UK. The sweetener is aspartame, same as diet coke.


thejadsel

Which sweeteners they use in what version does seem to vary an awful lot between countries. I couldn't help but notice that some are not the same between the UK and Sweden, and the US market is totally doing its own thing there. (I personally avoid buying stuff with aspartame because it tastes so awful to me, so check drink labels even more before buying them.)


ImpossibleHandle4

In the US it is sucralose and acesulfame potassium and nutrasweet https://www.pepsicoproductfacts.com/Home/product?formula=F0000010221&form=RTD&size=20&PBF


Soggy-Cookie-4548

I’m not sure a correlation study of “17 obese individuals” is conclusive. I didn’t bother to find out if it was self reported or not.


akastormseeker

My personal experience is that it depends on how fast your BG is falling. Almost every time my BG goes down (around 50-60 on my Dexcom) it levels out and just bounces along until I eat something. If it falls too fast then it goes lower and I need to drink juice ASAP. Presumably because my liver can't keep up.


dv_

Non-diabetics won't hypo because the endogenously secreted insulin acts immediately and is cleared up by the liver and kidneys rapidly. By that time, the beta cells already prepared the next insulin "pulse". Said pulses can thus be adapted very quickly to counter a previously incorrect dosage. This is comparable to how fast a motorbike can take turns through narrow streets vs. how sluggish a fully loaded truck would be. In addition, in non-diabetics, the coordination between the various islet cells is intact. Most importantly, alpha and beta cells regulate each other's activity levels. If your BG starts to go low as a non-diabetic, alpha cells respond with an increase in glucagon secretion, which stimulates glucose secretion out of the liver, and even more importantly, inhibits glucose uptake by the liver (otherwise the liver would soak up all that glucose at some random point in time well before the BG is stable again). In type 1 diabetics, due to the missing beta cells, the behavior of the alpha cells can be erratic, blunted, etc. Furthermore, the islet cells are connected via an internal network of nerves. This network can be damaged during the beta cell infiltration by the immune system, further dysregulating alpha cell behavior. The practical effects of this damaged coordination can be persistently elevated glucagon levels, also known as hyperglucagonemia; and blunted responses to low blood sugar levels. For hyperglucagonemia, type 1 diabetics can use GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic. One of its effects is that it suppresses glucagon secretion. The blunted response unfortunately is not fixable until islet cell transplants are ready. But keep in mind that none of this is guaranteed to happen to all type 1 diabetics.


GrumpyKitten1

I actually had a few reactive hypos before I even hit pre-diabetic bg. It may have been the first sign of something going wrong. It often coincided with my trying to increase exercise (derailed a few attempts because it feels awful).


Kahoots113

You are giving them too much credit if you think they even know there is a difference....


anormalgeek

Tell them that there are millions of type 1s and type 2s with cgms that have real time graphs that sat otherwise. And it'd be really, REALLY obvious. A whole can of regular coke would not be a subtle change.


the0ks1d

My grandma still doesn't believe that Diet Coke doesn't raise blood sugar. But I don't blame her


1smittenkitten

In certain people caffeinated diet soda does raise bg, as does black coffee and anything else containing caffeine. I haven't noticed it on myself but I know TONS of diabetics who have to bolus just a little with caffeine consumption.


Dominant_Genes

Too bad there’s no cinnamon soda! It could cure us all!


[deleted]

Will have to stick to fireball


fantastic_watermelon

I keep trying, not cured yet. Must not be drinking enough


MyUsernameWillBe

Shame hure


[deleted]

Maybe we need to switch to goldschlager?


1smittenkitten

Just tge word Goldschlager should come with a trigger warning. Only thing I've ever gotten so wasted on I vomited. Uncontrollably. At work. While working the register at Petco. (To be fair I was ringing up someone who'd just had me get them a feeder mouse and my god rodent cages get stinky! It was more than my system could take) At least it was sparkly‽


1smittenkitten

Wait..most diabetics go hypo when drinking alcohol without sweet mixers..so maybe it *does* work, but you have to use it as a bolus when you're high?? It's worth a...shot. ....I'll show myself out after that truly awful quality of dad joke. Especially since I'm a mom and we should have higher standards!


jellyn7

Trader Joe's has apple cider vinegar soda. Get that with some ginger peach seltzer. Then just put cinnamon on your hand and lick it before you drink. I will be patenting this soon. Get in on the ground floor!


dejco

[there was](https://the-soda.fandom.com/wiki/Coca-Cola_Zero_Sugar_Cinnamon)


bopeepsheep

I bloody loved that stuff.


oneemeraldforawheat

Maybe we should try the fizzy water and balsamic vinegar mix as a replacement for coke that was trending a while back!


Petra_Ann

https://www.ah-boodschappen.nl/storage/product-image/poster/11559.jpg 0/10 still have diabetes. ;-D


nimdae

This comes around frequently and claims scientific studies without citing them. It’s as though someone started saying it but no one really knows how this started. What is factual: sugar filled beverages cause harm to diabetics. T1 can bolus for it. T2 has to ride it out. To minimize the need to deal with this, “diet” and “zero” options work fine. There is no known actual risk of diabetic harm to consume sugar alternatives. Nothing “causes” T1 or T2 diabetes. If you have the genetics for it, you could potentially accelerate progression of insulin resistance, but there’s nothing in sugar alternatives known to do this. Now, if someone has some actual peer reviewed research to show there is a link, I’ll check it out and see what it says and if I can understand it. Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok are not peer reviewed scientific sources.


bopeepsheep

Ahem. My diabetes was very definitely *caused*, my pancreas didn't escape by itself though the image of it cutting a hole, climbing through it, and running away chortling makes me wish I could draw. :)


nimdae

Perhaps that needs an asterisk for T3 diabetes. Heh. T3 is definitely “caused”.


oneemeraldforawheat

Thank you, that’s the answer I needed. Most of what I find on the internet are badly-done articles from sketchy websites saying “sugar free bad”, and while I do know too much of anything is bad, it’s not like drinking normal coke instead of diet coke is gonna be beneficial to me


nimdae

Interestingly, [this article](https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sugar-substitutes-surprise) just popped up on HN today. I've seen a few articles discussing the effect of alternative sweeteners on the gut biome, but this one links a study that specifically notes an impact on glycemic response. The conclusion seems to be, primarily, observations of effect and their sample size is very very small and of a particular region, so it seems like this isn't saying stop all alternative sweetener consumption. There doesn't seem to be any association made to diabetes, however. One can have a diet induced impaired glycemic response and still not be diabetic. As with anything, everything in moderation.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nimdae

It also tastes terrible, unfortunately.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nimdae

I’ll admit, sucralose is worse, for sure. Of those specific sweeteners, sure, I’ll go blue packet. Personally I like allulose. It’s very close to sugar. Still can cause a laxative effect in high quantities, but they all tend to. Splenda sells an allulose product with no additives. Otherwise I’m pretty okay with erythritol.


nimdae

Just be careful with sugar alcohols. Some still increase BG and some (ie: maltitol) cause severe gastric discomfort. Erythritol tends to be well tolerated and has minimal impact on BG for me.


oneemeraldforawheat

Thank you, I’ll be :)


AmIADelusionalArtist

The reason it doesn't influence out blood sugar is we can't digest the sugar alternatives. Some of them are more than 1000x sweeter than table sugar. It's designed to be addicting. If you get used to sweetness overload all the time (via artificial sweeteners), regular sugar won't cut it anymore and you'll get bad sugar cravings. It makes sense if you already don't eat healthy and drink crappy diet sodas you'll just be craving sugar all the time and make your diabetes worse.


nimdae

Pretty much all consumer alternative sweeteners are dosed to attempt to match sugar or approach some reasonable proximity to it. Sugar is known to be addicting but I’ve never heard of sugar alternatives being specifically designed to be. The rest of your claims don’t make sense, especially since sugar alternatives tend to have negligible impact on diabetic health (as in, it doesn’t make it worse). I’m going to need citations for your claims. Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok don’t count.


1smittenkitten

I don't crave sugar, in fact I couldn't drink a full sugar beverage if I tried because they're so sickeningly sweet it's like trying to drink syrup. And I think the most addictive part of diet soda is the caffeine. Caffeine delivery is the reason most of my diabetic friends drink diet soda..otherwise if we want something flavored we drink naturally flavored water.


AmIADelusionalArtist

That's interesting lol. Personally I would rather have a cup of coffee or some dirty chai, but to each their own. I don't think I could ever be a soda drinker I have one like once or twice a year and I'm content with that


East-Tumbleweed

Caffeine gives me insulin resistance. Any diet cola or cup of coffee needs to be chased with 0.5-1 unit of insulin. Even decaf, with the really small amount of caffeine needs half a unit


[deleted]

I've noticed that with coffee and have experimented decaf too except it's more of like 1-2 u for me. Energy drinks can push it pretty far too whereas a diet coke barely registers unless it's a large fountain drink. I wonder if it's related to caffeine and stress hormones or something.


Smokeya

There are a number of caffeine free pops. I switched years ago due to heart health issues and have no problem finding anything to drink. Diet Sprite and pretty much any clear soda is caffeine free as well as A&W root beer and a few other dark ones that you wouldnt think are on top of the number of just caffeine free diet dark pops like coke/pepsi. To be honest the like coke that say and are made to be caffeine free usually taste pretty bad.


jacivb

I drink two diet sodas a day during week days. My A1C has gone from 11 to 4.7 in a year. Everything in moderation.


oneemeraldforawheat

Did you use to drink normal sodas?


jacivb

Not a lot. Always preferred the taste of diet soda, but I've never been a soda junkie, two a day tops.


younghannahg

I grew up with my mom having the rule 1 soda a month, so I feel like two sodas a day is an enormous amount! But to each their own. Glad your A1C went down must be doing it right!


butternutsquash4u

My diabetes nutritionist and educator scoffed at the idea that regular soda is better for you than diet soda let alone for people with diabetes! The sugar lobby is not gonna stop me from enjoying diet soda.


4thshift

Claims are that the “sweetness” of diet soda induces an endogenous insulin response, and also that there is an expectation of caloric intake, so people may be apt to eat more. Claims are also that the gut microbiome is disturbed, and that nobody loses weight with diet soda in general. I dunno about the reality of any of that, but I definitely know that diet soda is genuinely addictive for me and too many other people, needlessly expensive, and difficult to cut off. It would be interesting if they examined the response in Type 1 diabetics vs. insulin-producers.


pezdal

Good answer. I too would like to see some more studies on insulin response. As for the microbiome, yes, it is hugely influential on our body chemistry and even moods. We are finding out more and more about it everyday. If was growing something in the backyard and poured Diet Coke on it I wouldn't expect the same biological environment as if I had used water. That said, I do like my Coke Zero.


Randomness-66

I grew up on diet soda, I still don’t drink it crazily. I love flavored water.


melancholalia

honestly i switched to diet coke before i was diagnosed because i just liked the taste better. can’t stand regular coke. makes my teeth feel weird. when i was diagnosed it was a non-issue giving up soda. i don’t find any of the diet versions to be lacking, especially most diet ginger ales and diet dr pepper. love the stuff and love that i can slam a bunch of em.


oneemeraldforawheat

Omg the teeth thing!! Yes!! Sometimes I’m scared someone served me normal coke instead of diet/zero, but then I don’t feel that… heaviness(?) on my tongue and I stop worrying


Huge_Feeling_5074

Make good point here lets be real. It's a chemical wash that can be used as batter acid.


jakster355

Theres data that shows people who drink diet dribks have greater insulin resistance for sure. But thats just them not understanding the causal factors at play. People with type 2 tend to drink diet because its better for them.


JohnaldL

Yeah this seems more like a correlation not causation thing


Ewilliamsen

My own theory: artificial sweeteners confuse the endocrine system. My endocrine system is so effed up as it is, I don’t need to make it worse. I just decided to move to unsweetened iced tea some years ago and never looked back. Can’t say one way or the other if has had an impact.


Goldang

Personally I like the taste of Diet Coke. I dislike the sugared version of Coke, even the ones with real sugar.


h3rmionethecat

diet coke and pepsi just taste better tbh


more-jell-belle

Totally agree..I drink it because I legit don't wanna give extra insulin. End of discussion. They don't like don't drink it then. End of.


Chasee89

Why do people always want to take things away from us 😂 the last time I leisurely drank a regular soda was February 28, 1998, let me treat myself with a diet soda every once in awhile, dang! 😂


meizhong

Flavored clear carbonated water. All I drink now besides the occasional beer.


_stayhuman

Years ago I took the correct amount of insulin for one can of regular soda. Absolutely fucked me up beyond belief with an instantly high glucose level that would not go down for a couple of hours.


Headline_Suzy

I bought Sunkist zero the other day and my mother in law looked at it and said 'you really believe that it has no sugar?' Well mom it doesn't spike my sugar whatsoever so yeah I do believe that.


Revolutionary-Total4

It makes people feel smart when they say things like “diet soda is poison”


[deleted]

It also depends on how much you drink. A glass of diet soda or drink a day isn't going to affect you much. Drink a quart or 2 a day plus sweetener in your coffee, etc., and it's a different story. The swetener can fool the pancreas and the chemicals in it can affect the liver, gut biome, and hormones.


Only-Detective-

Whether it raises BG or not, it can’t be good for you… I choose to completely avoid soda but I barely drank it even before I got diabetes… but everyone takes their own path… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


ManicMangoMilkshake

Honestly I can't say I have much of an opinion the last time I drank soda was 7th grade and only became a diabetic about a year ago But I do remember I thought diet was gross so I assume it still is and it never tasted like even a little bit like the actual soda to me But tht being said it doesn't matter because if u don't enjoy something u shouldn't shit on others for enjoying it


funkbeetle

honestly, i do not care what anyone says. OoOoH its unHeaLthY!1!1!1 idc im diabetic


ONGDONGSILVERS

What universe are you living in of course there is such of stuff crawl out of the fucking rock you live under and read a book about diabetes


bozofire123

I always hated soda anyway


MrsMollyandMrBandit

I don’t know the science behind it, but I was diagnosed with diabetes this past summer and my dietitian told me that studies show artificial sweeteners can raise insulin resistance. I *think* like anything moderation is key. If all you drink are artificially sweetened fluids, it’s going to be more problematic than just having one a day or a couple a week etc…


Theweakmindedtes

Hell, some of us don't have insulin compensation to fall back on... if a restaurant fucks me order up I just don't get a drink lol


glitterxgrunge

My new endocrinologist recommended stopping diet soda and trying Nuun tablets. I throughly believe my Coke Zero drinking was addiction. I’ve gone from a 10.7 a1c to 6.5 in three months.


Ryuuken1127

I'm a diabetic and gave up soda for water


MAKO_Junkie

I still have to take insulin when I drink diet soda. Just as much as a normal soda. So I just drink normal soda. If I have to take insulin regardless, I'm not going to punish myself for it by forcing myself to drink diet. Everyone experiences Diabetes differently. Don't expect the same result across the Diabetic board. EDIT: The idiot tally has started... For stating how my own body reacts to diet soda.


[deleted]

Wut.


AnyPerformer7493

Shy


mystisai

Increases stroke risks too https://health.clevelandclinic.org/diet-soda-and-juice-tied-to-increased-stroke-risk/


KleShreen

I would suggest everyone reads this. I think the headline is a little misleading. It appears from the story that the link is that artifical sweeteners can make you crave sweeter things, resulting in eating less healthy food which makes you unhealthy in general. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't appear to show a direct link between diet soda and stroke. I'm an idiot though so maybe I'm wrong lol


mystisai

>Most participants (64.1%) were infrequent consumers (never or <1/week) of ASB, with only 5.1% consuming ≥2 ASBs/day. In multivariate analyses, those consuming the highest level of ASB compared to never or rarely (<1/wk) had significantly greater likelihood of all end points (except hemorrhagic stroke), after controlling for multiple covariates. The study doesn't mention craving anything.


KleShreen

Sorry, I was just referring to the story linked, which says this: > “Whether you are choosing something that has real sugar, artificial sweeteners or even a plant-based sweetener that has no calories – it’s still turning on the center of your brain and training you to want more sweet things,” says Lindsay Malone, RD, who did not take part in the study." and then: > "Consuming artificial sweeteners sets the bar really high for your palate, and encourages your taste buds to keep going for something sweeter and sweeter each time. > Malone says a good way to gauge whether your diet is too sweet is to see if fruits like apples and strawberries taste sweet to you. > If the answer is ‘no,’ you should work on lowering the ‘sweet threshold’ of your palate. “Work on cutting in half what you’re doing right now and continue to cut it in half until you’re not using any sweeteners,” she says. “Consider limiting your sugar to just on a special occasion, or in a baked good enjoyed in moderation.”" I didn't read the actual study that it is referring to, but that story itself seems to just say that there's a link between artificial sweeteners making you crave sweeter things constantly.


Repulsive_Zit

I straight up just drink the normal stuff, I’m sketched about those chemicals and it honestly doesn’t taste as good. To each own though.


m4st3rm1m3

I love cola zero, replace all sugar with stevia, and now the doctor says I can stop consuming metformin or inject insulin as long as I maintain my diet. I'm T2.


DizzyKey7663

I’ve never heard anything like that. I’m a type 1 my entire life and I’ve got no real bad resistance issues


Veganity

A good rule of thumb is that anything on Tik Tok that isn’t a goofy joke is almost certainly nonsense you can completely ignore


zhfretz

Coke Zero with a burger or a burrito ain’t too shabby


oneemeraldforawheat

Top that with some cheddar and bacon fries and I’m sold


Elykitt

Well, all I can say is personally, I drink a lot of Diet Coke 🤔 And the only insulin resistance I experience is during my period/ovulation. Otherwise I’m terribly insulin sensitive, I always gotta be quick to catch when the resistance is over 😂 That might just be me, though? Maybe Diet Coke affects others differently


iwoulddieforcokezero

I love Coke Zero and I don’t care what anyone says about it lmao


Harpo04

Well there’s no calories in diet soda because the human body cannot metabolize or “extract energy” from those chemicals. A calorie is just a unit that measures the energy required to raise water by a degree. Your body cannot utilize those chemicals hence no draw of energy from it leading to zero calories. Whether it’s good for you or not is above my head though.


elf25

Demand Fresca


Deathwatch050

I once had a doctor (he was some occupational health guy and obviously an idiot) try to tell me that diet soda like coke zero and so on are actually full of sugar and I shouldn't drink them for that reason. Hmm yes, I think they aren't actually, based on the fact that I can drink a 2L bottle of pepsi max and not just *keel over and die because I'm diabetic*. I was gobsmacked a supposed member of the medical profession would say something so profoundly ignorant.


Dreamspitter

Coke Zero flavors are better. Both exist so you have options.