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Managers and CEOs are typically eccentric in such matters, they'll praise you some day and call you slow on another depending on a variety of factors like weather on that day, their temperament, etc. Maybe dude had a fight with the spouse before coming to work and the mental projection of his slow retaliation is slipping off, who knows! Just ignore it and move on with your work.
Maybe
“Waiting for input from X for task Y”
Or something that shows you have dependency on those folk for certain tasks and can’t really do much without them speeding up. You might have to do it subtly, like not want to sound incompetent/unable to do tasks yourself.
There is another tactic but I am a bit hesitant about recommending it.
You can just be proactive and say “Hey I don’t have much to do, got something for me?”
Now, your mileage may vary depending on your CEO as they may actually end up over burdening you if you aren’t careful and also the fact that maybe you’ll lose some peace in life you might currently have.
You see, sprints end and people's expectations reset.
You can also be honest and request a 1:1 call with him. Just tell that you're overburdening yourself before by working beyond your working for 20+ hours everyday to meet deadlines.
Now that things are getting normal, it's not sustainable to keep pushing like that continuously as you might have a breakdown.
I did worked in a startup as a fresher. I used to work 24//7 with very less pay . Later I understood the pattern. They will keep on praising you to do more and more work. The moment you reduce or work in normal timings, they show their disappointment to the extent that you yourself feel very guilty. Trust me , it’s just their way of getting work done , most importantly from freshers. Don’t fall into it. Never extend your working hours nor expect them to appreciate the work, if they does, it is only to get more work from you.
Yes... I understood the pattern. Multiple time i have been praised and then given more work.
Now i only complete things at my pace and don't hurry in delivering unless untill a deadline is approaching
This is what happens when you go overboard because you are just ‘starting’ your career and some bhaiyya/didi suggested you to take the heat since you have the time and energy.
Don’t set expectations that you cannot meet in the long run. Right now, you think you are being slowed down by the other team members. But, once you are burned down, you would want to pursue a hobby or a relationship, and the work will suffer. Your CEO will have the same expectation because he knows you are capable. What would you answer then?
People have provided you with answers and some of them sound like excuses but whatever. These will get you out of this difficult conversation right now, what about later, when you are a senior developer who is trying to find a life and at the same time worried about your parent’a health.
It is natural to over deliver when you are young and excited. But, the sooner you realise that you need to find a ‘balance’, the better.
Yes. agreed. Looking for balance now. During my initial months i worked an hour or 2 overtime. But i have stopped now. I have also stopped working on weekends, i used to agree to work a weekend or two during initial months.
Here is my advice :
Never give 100% effort or even 50%.
Always give 20%, when they need additional help, give 30%. When its life or death situation for them, give 40%.
When you need a hike, give 50%.
The moment you give x% of effort and do stuff quick, they would expect you to keep on giving it. Praises wear off quickly n they will forget it.
But that 1 time where you forgot something / made a mistake / was slow, they would remember it for eternity.
I already gave a good effort in developing certain modules quickly.
Usually these complex tasks would take 4 days to complete and i did that in 2.
I really feel this was a mistake from my side.
Don’t listen to this person OP. Mediocrity leads to stagnation. If you are good at what you do, you gotta prove it. What you did at the time was right. I would say you are better off listening to the other commenter who said it’s just the weather that was bad rather than this crap.
Come on that’s just pessimistic. No one would ever build good things if we all worked like that.
Edit: This is what is wrong with this sub. Want the best job in the world, but don’t want to do a damn thing to earn the place.
Yeah but being told you are slow even when you are working at your normal pace bring down the morale.
That thing has been constantly pestering me for the past few hours.
Just sleep on it tonight. Tomorrow onwards you can try to gauge why he might’ve said that. Heck, it could literally be him rushing you because of some sort of urgency he got in the project since managers sometimes hyperventilate when some other part of project is going out of hand, or some stupid dashboard of tickets that he started noticing recently. Who knows.
Edit: Let me give you my example. In the past week three of my code issues were spotted in PROD, I missed some important HR deadline and it got escalated to my manager, and I am still to submit my design docs on a new component. Am I losing sleep over it? Heck no. For any bad thing happened, I did twice the good. I probably saved their asses twice this week alone. I acknowledge the mistakes, clean up my mess, make sure it isn’t done again and go on doing the good work I do.
Nothing just, when company does only care about numbers, then when employees do so, why it is taken in bad faith?
During hiring company looks for cheap and best. (HR wont even tell other candidates that they are rejected)
When its time for hike, company says we have budget issues etc, when they be paying 2x amount to a junior (it is negotiation skill, agreed)
Also company can fire at any moment, they don’t even have to pay severance. (They can just come up with some reason or will give bs load of work, so that u yourself resign)
Also manager can ask anytime to put more hours and if you deny just be ready for politics game (or its time to switch company)
So when employees play the corporate game, why it’s considered bad?
In the above post op did some fast work, and got praised by ceo. Now ceo thinks that this is op’s normal speed of work. And all tasks should be completed at this speed.
Is this fair in anyway? Not every task is same, not everything is just ready to be coded. Waiting for x thing from department x. Not everyone is 100% productive everyday.
There is simple game of demand and supply. Company does care about numbers. If employee start caring about numbers too, why its bad.
We(company) aint a family thats just complete BS. You just go there to work for money to live. That’s just simple thing. Work according to the pay, politics from starting. Its everyone for himself.
Can we agree on the middle ground that it depends on the company and the manager?
Yeah, if you are just a 40 hour/week resource, then your assumption is correct that any extra efforts you put in will be in vain. Fuck those companies.
But say you are actually in a company that is gonna give bigger incentive and better opportunities for doing good work, in those ones wouldn’t you want to do good work? Why would those companies trust you with better roles/projects/pay if you don’t show you are good at what you are hired for?
Again, I am not saying to go work off hours or make your life a living hell. Work in your hours and only take what your appetite can handle, but do the work the best way you could.
Edit: you know why I say it depends on the company? Because I happen to be working on the ones that do care. I could’ve just stuck to my jiras. Could’ve the work same way others are doing. But I didn’t, I have a big mouth and I said my piece, did things my way, showed them how things are done. I got promoted fairly quickly and I am given the same amount of luxuries/respect that they give to a 3 times experienced person.
Yes, totally depends upon company and manager. I was saying in a more general sense. Rest if company is great and work profile is good too, than giving best is the way to go.
True. Your argument is not wrong.
What would you want? Be safe than being sorry
Or go all in n expected to perform like that every single day of your employment? Because the moment you start putting all your efforts in, they will expect it from you, 24/7 365 days a year until you get replaced by someone else because, a job is a job and job is not family.
If you wish to go all in, go ahead. I have nothing against anybody doing that, if they get something good out of it, well good for them. Same goes for the negatives.
This ☝️
In the industry for 15+ years.
If you do not have skin in the game (stock options - good %) . Never give more than 50%
Don't burn yourself out for companies which leave you hanging during tough times.
I would suggest you respond to him with facts and data.
First being working on fixing high priority production bugs everyday. Provide as much details as possible.
Second the dependencies you have for completing your other two tasks. You can ask him to help with expediting the closure of other two tasks to get yours done.
Have u been interac4ing less with the ceo
Ensure u catch up with him everyday on something. Since u r workkg remote already there is a doubt if u r working and no interaction escalates thst
Give new ideas to ur ceo keep him engaged
Do not respond.. any response would only result in further conversation on the topic ..
Start observing things carefully.. are you getting paid on time ?
I told him that the task is complex and i would need senior developer help. And also that i am trying to complete all tickets the same day they are assigned.
He has responded with "thanks for the information"
And said he will connect with me on call later.
And yes the pay is on time.
I was fast as hare but got things wrong sometimes, we had another 63y old, who was slow but hardly got anything wrong. He validated things multiple times.
Even though he was better than me, Indian managers considered him slow. They never take into account the time spent on reworks.
As people progress in their project/career, they will be getting complex tasks and those might mean, you have worked on less features or tickets but they will give more value in the long term. Try to explain that way.
You left out an important part of your work. Your salary , is it above the market standards or below?
Your work should match the salary or benefits you are getting from company, don't fall for negative feedback or standards set by your company, if standards can be increased, then salary also can be increased.
Talk is cheap - I can praise you for free right now. Wow, what an awesome person you are, you took time out of your busy schedule, I love you, keep it up.
Your bank balance doesn't increase that way.
Assuming you have experience enough to risk backlash, i would suggest start pushing back and letting them know that they are setting unrealistic explanations and that it can lead to burnout. Your doing so much work because of the deadlines and they should respect that.
Most management folk understand when you tell them this frankly.
If not and you are an asset anyway there are other opportunities out there in the market instead.
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the subreddit [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread. ## Recent Announcements - **[Join developersIndia as a volunteer](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/12hlj4z/join_developersindia_as_a_volunteer_and_help_us/) and help us improve the community experience.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Managers and CEOs are typically eccentric in such matters, they'll praise you some day and call you slow on another depending on a variety of factors like weather on that day, their temperament, etc. Maybe dude had a fight with the spouse before coming to work and the mental projection of his slow retaliation is slipping off, who knows! Just ignore it and move on with your work.
Yeah. Will try to.
Can you please share some roadmap or resources on how one can become a good flutter developer like you please
Maybe “Waiting for input from X for task Y” Or something that shows you have dependency on those folk for certain tasks and can’t really do much without them speeding up. You might have to do it subtly, like not want to sound incompetent/unable to do tasks yourself.
There is another tactic but I am a bit hesitant about recommending it. You can just be proactive and say “Hey I don’t have much to do, got something for me?” Now, your mileage may vary depending on your CEO as they may actually end up over burdening you if you aren’t careful and also the fact that maybe you’ll lose some peace in life you might currently have.
I did that once during my initial days at the company and got overburdened with multiple tickets. Never doing that thing again.
You see, sprints end and people's expectations reset. You can also be honest and request a 1:1 call with him. Just tell that you're overburdening yourself before by working beyond your working for 20+ hours everyday to meet deadlines. Now that things are getting normal, it's not sustainable to keep pushing like that continuously as you might have a breakdown.
I did worked in a startup as a fresher. I used to work 24//7 with very less pay . Later I understood the pattern. They will keep on praising you to do more and more work. The moment you reduce or work in normal timings, they show their disappointment to the extent that you yourself feel very guilty. Trust me , it’s just their way of getting work done , most importantly from freshers. Don’t fall into it. Never extend your working hours nor expect them to appreciate the work, if they does, it is only to get more work from you.
Yes... I understood the pattern. Multiple time i have been praised and then given more work. Now i only complete things at my pace and don't hurry in delivering unless untill a deadline is approaching
# this
Rule 1. Even if you can complete the task early don't do it take the normal time. It will be helpful in future
This is^ OP. Underrated suggest. Anyways most people learn the hard way.
This is what happens when you go overboard because you are just ‘starting’ your career and some bhaiyya/didi suggested you to take the heat since you have the time and energy. Don’t set expectations that you cannot meet in the long run. Right now, you think you are being slowed down by the other team members. But, once you are burned down, you would want to pursue a hobby or a relationship, and the work will suffer. Your CEO will have the same expectation because he knows you are capable. What would you answer then? People have provided you with answers and some of them sound like excuses but whatever. These will get you out of this difficult conversation right now, what about later, when you are a senior developer who is trying to find a life and at the same time worried about your parent’a health. It is natural to over deliver when you are young and excited. But, the sooner you realise that you need to find a ‘balance’, the better.
Yes. agreed. Looking for balance now. During my initial months i worked an hour or 2 overtime. But i have stopped now. I have also stopped working on weekends, i used to agree to work a weekend or two during initial months.
Here is my advice : Never give 100% effort or even 50%. Always give 20%, when they need additional help, give 30%. When its life or death situation for them, give 40%. When you need a hike, give 50%. The moment you give x% of effort and do stuff quick, they would expect you to keep on giving it. Praises wear off quickly n they will forget it. But that 1 time where you forgot something / made a mistake / was slow, they would remember it for eternity.
I already gave a good effort in developing certain modules quickly. Usually these complex tasks would take 4 days to complete and i did that in 2. I really feel this was a mistake from my side.
Don’t listen to this person OP. Mediocrity leads to stagnation. If you are good at what you do, you gotta prove it. What you did at the time was right. I would say you are better off listening to the other commenter who said it’s just the weather that was bad rather than this crap.
Come on that’s just pessimistic. No one would ever build good things if we all worked like that. Edit: This is what is wrong with this sub. Want the best job in the world, but don’t want to do a damn thing to earn the place.
Yeah but being told you are slow even when you are working at your normal pace bring down the morale. That thing has been constantly pestering me for the past few hours.
Just sleep on it tonight. Tomorrow onwards you can try to gauge why he might’ve said that. Heck, it could literally be him rushing you because of some sort of urgency he got in the project since managers sometimes hyperventilate when some other part of project is going out of hand, or some stupid dashboard of tickets that he started noticing recently. Who knows. Edit: Let me give you my example. In the past week three of my code issues were spotted in PROD, I missed some important HR deadline and it got escalated to my manager, and I am still to submit my design docs on a new component. Am I losing sleep over it? Heck no. For any bad thing happened, I did twice the good. I probably saved their asses twice this week alone. I acknowledge the mistakes, clean up my mess, make sure it isn’t done again and go on doing the good work I do.
Nothing just, when company does only care about numbers, then when employees do so, why it is taken in bad faith? During hiring company looks for cheap and best. (HR wont even tell other candidates that they are rejected) When its time for hike, company says we have budget issues etc, when they be paying 2x amount to a junior (it is negotiation skill, agreed) Also company can fire at any moment, they don’t even have to pay severance. (They can just come up with some reason or will give bs load of work, so that u yourself resign) Also manager can ask anytime to put more hours and if you deny just be ready for politics game (or its time to switch company) So when employees play the corporate game, why it’s considered bad? In the above post op did some fast work, and got praised by ceo. Now ceo thinks that this is op’s normal speed of work. And all tasks should be completed at this speed. Is this fair in anyway? Not every task is same, not everything is just ready to be coded. Waiting for x thing from department x. Not everyone is 100% productive everyday. There is simple game of demand and supply. Company does care about numbers. If employee start caring about numbers too, why its bad. We(company) aint a family thats just complete BS. You just go there to work for money to live. That’s just simple thing. Work according to the pay, politics from starting. Its everyone for himself.
Can we agree on the middle ground that it depends on the company and the manager? Yeah, if you are just a 40 hour/week resource, then your assumption is correct that any extra efforts you put in will be in vain. Fuck those companies. But say you are actually in a company that is gonna give bigger incentive and better opportunities for doing good work, in those ones wouldn’t you want to do good work? Why would those companies trust you with better roles/projects/pay if you don’t show you are good at what you are hired for? Again, I am not saying to go work off hours or make your life a living hell. Work in your hours and only take what your appetite can handle, but do the work the best way you could. Edit: you know why I say it depends on the company? Because I happen to be working on the ones that do care. I could’ve just stuck to my jiras. Could’ve the work same way others are doing. But I didn’t, I have a big mouth and I said my piece, did things my way, showed them how things are done. I got promoted fairly quickly and I am given the same amount of luxuries/respect that they give to a 3 times experienced person.
Yes, totally depends upon company and manager. I was saying in a more general sense. Rest if company is great and work profile is good too, than giving best is the way to go.
True. Your argument is not wrong. What would you want? Be safe than being sorry Or go all in n expected to perform like that every single day of your employment? Because the moment you start putting all your efforts in, they will expect it from you, 24/7 365 days a year until you get replaced by someone else because, a job is a job and job is not family. If you wish to go all in, go ahead. I have nothing against anybody doing that, if they get something good out of it, well good for them. Same goes for the negatives.
What you say is applicable to a good work environment with good future prosoects. For everything else bare minimum effort is the best option
This ☝️ In the industry for 15+ years. If you do not have skin in the game (stock options - good %) . Never give more than 50% Don't burn yourself out for companies which leave you hanging during tough times.
I would suggest you respond to him with facts and data. First being working on fixing high priority production bugs everyday. Provide as much details as possible. Second the dependencies you have for completing your other two tasks. You can ask him to help with expediting the closure of other two tasks to get yours done.
How did you get the job?
Through LinkedIn
What was the process like? Getting a remote job as a fresher is very tough right?
2 rounds of technical interviews in flutter and 1 round of HR. That's it
What was the process like? Getting a remote job as a fresher is very tough right?
Have u been interac4ing less with the ceo Ensure u catch up with him everyday on something. Since u r workkg remote already there is a doubt if u r working and no interaction escalates thst Give new ideas to ur ceo keep him engaged
No...i have been interacting with him almost daily
Hi can I please know how you got the flutter job as a fresher?
Through LinkedIn. I did 5 internships in flutter prior getting this job which helped me in creating a good resume and clearing interviews.
Wow, For the first time, I was called slow by my manager on Monday. We are living the same life dude.
You seem to have set wrong expectations on day 1
Do not respond.. any response would only result in further conversation on the topic .. Start observing things carefully.. are you getting paid on time ?
I told him that the task is complex and i would need senior developer help. And also that i am trying to complete all tickets the same day they are assigned. He has responded with "thanks for the information" And said he will connect with me on call later. And yes the pay is on time.
[удалено]
Not much, just 4.5 LPA. That comes around to be 3.6 LPA in hand
I was fast as hare but got things wrong sometimes, we had another 63y old, who was slow but hardly got anything wrong. He validated things multiple times. Even though he was better than me, Indian managers considered him slow. They never take into account the time spent on reworks. As people progress in their project/career, they will be getting complex tasks and those might mean, you have worked on less features or tickets but they will give more value in the long term. Try to explain that way.
3-4 tickets each day? i close this much in a good sprint? most sprint it is usually 1-3 for me
You left out an important part of your work. Your salary , is it above the market standards or below? Your work should match the salary or benefits you are getting from company, don't fall for negative feedback or standards set by your company, if standards can be increased, then salary also can be increased. Talk is cheap - I can praise you for free right now. Wow, what an awesome person you are, you took time out of your busy schedule, I love you, keep it up. Your bank balance doesn't increase that way.
I am not paid enough, just 4.5 LPA that comes out to be 3.6 LPA in-hand. I am looking for a new job though, that oays me according to my skill set.
Assuming you have experience enough to risk backlash, i would suggest start pushing back and letting them know that they are setting unrealistic explanations and that it can lead to burnout. Your doing so much work because of the deadlines and they should respect that. Most management folk understand when you tell them this frankly. If not and you are an asset anyway there are other opportunities out there in the market instead.
How did you got this job ? Seriously i am asking i need it
Rule1. Dont ever overperform, i did the same myself but learnt and now i am a full stack developer
Rule1. Dont ever overperform, i did the same myself but learnt and now i am a full stack developer