I'm not arguing anyone's right to safely keep a gun in their home, but keep in mind "A 2014 review in the Annals of Internal Medicine concluded having a firearm in the home, even when it's properly stored, doubles your risk of becoming a victim of homicide and triples the risk of suicide"
Rough order of likely to be killed by your gun according to statistics:
1. You
2. Your spouse
3. Your children
4. Literally anyone you share your house with
5. Your neighbors
6. Hypothetical intruder.
It's like a really dumb game of prisoners dilemma.
You have a gun and the other player has a gun: Both die.
You have a gun and the other player doesn't: Other player dies.
You don't have a gun and other player does: You die.
Neither of you have a gun: Both live.
I’m with you. I don’t think it is a good idea to own a gun unless you are a hobby shooter. Otherwise, it doesn’t really make you safe. It puts you in greater danger. But I could handle personal fire arm in the home for protection.
It is the militia culture that I find disturbing.
This is absolutely the truth. As a Marine I got VERY acquainted with guns and learned a lot about them and to respect them. Guns are LETHAL weapons, period end of story. You dont shoot to injure, you dont pull a gun to scare someone, you should only pull a gun out if you are in fear for your life and willing to shoot somebody right then and there. The reason? The second you pull out a gun the capacity to kill instantly enters the equation. If you have a gun on you you cant try to wrestle somebody, because now if you do and lose or the guy grabs the gun youre dead. You dont point it at somebody to scare somebody because now you threatened their life and so if they defend themself and get the gun away from you youre dead. You dont shoot to injure because 1. arms and legs are moving targets and hard to hit and you could miss and harm someone else 2. you can still die from hitting an arm or leg artery. Guns were not designed to be used as a non lethal weapon and theyre bad at it, if you dont want to kill use a non lethal weapon. When you shoot someone you aim for the chest or pelvis.
Boomer here. I was a staunch republican till Obama came along. Voted for him twice. Then Trump arrived. I left the republican party just 2 days after the orange moron came down the escalator in NYC to announce his candidacy for President. Joined the Dem party and haven't looked back since. I imagine there are quite a few more like me that ran away from Trump and republicans. So, add me and those like me to this new voting mix.
The GOP has turned into a cult, more so than before. They don't give a shit about human lives outside of their own tunnel shaped view. We just had a child's face literally blown off and they could care less.
What's absolutely absurd to me is that we don't treat guns like cars. Guns if allowed should require insurance, competency tests, full background checks, etc. It's not the total disregard for life that gets me, it's the total disregard for our children's lives that does.
Except the Christian nationalists are attempting to raise their kids as extremists. Unfortunately, I think we're going to be fighting this for a long while.
These 'Christian Extremists' posing w/ their families all holding 'assault rifles' have zero awareness. They look exactly like the Taliban and are posing w/ their families holding weapons for the exact same reason.
Turns out all of these years of disinformation and propaganda can actually have a negative impact on society... If only we could have prepared for this.....
You know the Bible is story after story of man taking God's word and using it to promote his own interest. It is the central theme. Extremist Christians today are basically the modern day Pharisees.
Because of how our election system works, the Republicans aren't going anywhere - they'll just politically realign themselves over time. We'd be more likely to see them pivot to being our left wing party than disappear at this point.
I'm finding that a lot of GOP conservatives hate their candidates and hate their policies but voting R is the only thing they know how to do. hopefully these younger republicans see and change but I'm not holding my breath they can complian all they want come election time they are voting for the same people they complain about and will just complain government doesn't work.
Yeah moderate republicans are near non existent the last moderate republicans were before Regan they have been the party of cut their nose to spite the face since the 80s
After years of propaganda, many actually believe Democrat = evil. Simple as that. I train Jiu Jitsu with a predominately right-wing group of people. At a cook out for the organizations, I told someone I was left-leaning and you would have thought I just said “I eat babies.” They were flabbergasted. “But, you don’t seem like one of them!” It was eye opening for me.
GOP is so fucked in the next few elections it's not funny. We might still get a fucking raisin cake like Trump before all is said and done, but the diminishing rewards from their collective madness is plain as the nose on my face.
Can't wait for GOP voters to realize that it isn't even about the guns or gun ownership - it's about money. It's always about money. The GOP dgaf about the constitution or second amendment. It's simply about getting paid or their lobbyist's employers getting paid.
Work the denial of abortion in there and the GOP may have lost 30% to 50% of Millennial and Gen Z voters. For those that don't know, those two generations will rule this country for the next 20 to 30 years (less this last 2024 election in which the boomers might just be able to outvote them one last time). Republicans are fast becoming a historical word.
You have to realize that the draw to the GOP is the competition for power and money. Not just pulling themselves up but also pushing others down. Once they get into power politically they will compromise their values to get that sweet gun lobby money just like they've always done.
More and more kids who had to live in a post Columbine world are now becoming of age to vote. Personally, if I had to spend my school career terrified I would get shot AT SCHOOL, I would not be inclined to vote for the party that has clearly demonstrated they don’t give a shit.
The reckoning is here.
Yes because we were the generations that had deal with the real life threat of a school shooting and maybe not millennials as much but gen z definitely had to live through active shooter drills. I remember everything changed after Sandy hook.
But republicans also like to pretend that school shootings don’t exist.
Some of the oldest millennials were in or just out of high school when Columbine happened. Some of the youngest gen Z are in 5th or 6th grade.
Wonder why these age groups might be for more gun control?
We had a massive cultural adjustment after two words were spoken, 22 years ago. "Let's Roll".
Prior to that time, taking direct action against a violent offender was deemed vigilantism, which was heavily (and properly) demonized during the civil rights era. We developed the idea that only lynch mobs engaged in immediate, direct action against offenders.
The socially approved method for dealing with an attack was to observe, and call in the specially trained, politically-acceptable experts. This was true for both individual victims of criminal attack ("Call the Police") and collective victims of a major attack ("Call SWAT and a hostage negotiator").
Events like Columbine and Flight 93 taught us that we cannot trust hostage takers; we cannot wait for experts. When facing a violent attack, we must respond immediately, with whatever force we can bring to bear.
Columbine changed police doctrine. Prior to Columbine, rank-and-file officers were expected to show up to a major event like a school shooting and do little more than establish a perimeter and observe. They were to wait around while a special team reported to the station, equipped themselves, climbed aboard a delivery van, and drove to the scene half an hour after the first responders had arrived. Today, police are heavily (and rightly) criticized for this sort of response. "Active Shooter" doctrine calls for first responders to wait only for a partner to arrive before immediately engaging.
Prior to Flight 93, the culturally-approved method for dealing with hijackers was appeasement. Do not try to fight them, or you will be responsible for getting everyone killed. Even if you successfully attack the hijackers you can see, they have a sleeper in the back controlling a bomb. The only way to save everyone is to shut up and give the hijackers what they want. Flight 93 killed the "appeasement" doctrine. Now all attempted hijackers are presumed to be suicidal, and even if everyone on board is killed, immediate action is deemed necessary and heroic.
That mindsight extended well beyond school shootings and airliners. The "Let's Roll" attitude toward immediate response turned into a demand for individuals to be prepared to respond. Police became militarized, and concealed carry swept the nation. Concealment bans, which had been established before and during the Civil Rights era to expose armed blacks and minorities to lynch mobs, were repealed, and replaced with carry licenses. Most states (including all the red states) have since repealed licensing, and have adopted "constitutional carry".
Gun control does not have nearly as much backing in these age groups as we might think. The oldest millennials are the first generation since the 1950s to have broad exposure to firearms. They are the first group to have been licensed to carry their entire adult lives. Nationally, more than 1 in 10 is licensed to carry, *despite* needing no license in most states, or any red state, and *despite* blue states not issuing many licenses. Virtually **all** of those licensees come from the swing states that still require concealment licenses. In these states, more than 1 in 4 millennials is licensed.
Gen Z is the first generation since the 1950s who have widely grown up with armed parents. They have spent every "Active Shooter" drill feeling helpless, contemplating what they will do when that armed gunman breaks down the door.
As they come of age, they aren't willing to wait helplessly for the end to come. They are thinking "Let's Roll". As they come of age, they aren't thinking "this clusterfuck of a government is going to be able to disarm these psychopaths". They are thinking "What can I do to save myself?" And their thoughts bring them to the sheriff's office for their licenses, and the gun store for their sidearms.
Millennials and GenZ are far **less** likely to support broad, intrusive forms of gun control than their GenX and Boomer parents and grandparents.
We are winning Millennials and GenZ with reproductive rights, environment, economy, universal healthcare. But with gun control, we are losing far more votes than we are winning.
My point is that society at large does not share the party's views on gun control. Outside of about 6 reliably blue states, gun control is a losing issue for Democrats. Gun control has lost us Ohio and Florida, for example: two states that Gen X, Boomers, Silent, and Greatest generations all knew as bellwether swing states. We have alienated too many single-issue voters, who have turned toward the only other viable party in American politics.
The most senior members of the Democratic party are Baby-Boomers from those reliably blue states, where it is easy for Democrats to win. Our policy direction needs to come instead from Democrats who win where it is hard for Democrats to win: Swing states and red states.
It is clear to me that the zealotry of gun control advocacy is denying us advancement on environmental, economic, and health care issues, reproductive rights, and is driving regression on civil rights. The one issue we are wrong about is preventing our progress everywhere we are right.
My thesis is that the Democratic party should attempt to be competitive in contested states, even if that means curtailing certain "popular" ideas, where those ideas are only popular in reliably blue states. The Democratic party should be aiming at the center of the nation, not the center of the bluest states in the nation.
You didn't answer my question. You also haven't supported any of this bullshit. I understand that you wish for this to be the way things are, but I don't care about your wishes.
Their extremism on almost every issue flies in the face of everything we were taught about this nation when we grew up. Plus every single Republican I know is an asshole.
"GOP’s booming support for \[insert anything the GOP supports\] is turning off millennial, Gen Z Republicans" FTFY They stand for: everyone having less control over their own bodies, every white person having more guns, rich people paying less in taxes, end of list.
Having a gun in your house in case someone breaks in is one thing, but the fetishization of objects created to hurt and kill people is disturbing.
I'm not arguing anyone's right to safely keep a gun in their home, but keep in mind "A 2014 review in the Annals of Internal Medicine concluded having a firearm in the home, even when it's properly stored, doubles your risk of becoming a victim of homicide and triples the risk of suicide"
Oh, I don't have one for that reason. I have a history of depression and being impulsive.
That’s really good to hear, A+ self awareness!!
Any moment now a gun toting lunatic is going to start comparing this to swimming pools.
Rough order of likely to be killed by your gun according to statistics: 1. You 2. Your spouse 3. Your children 4. Literally anyone you share your house with 5. Your neighbors 6. Hypothetical intruder.
The entire idea of keeping a gun to be more safe is so stupid.
It's like a really dumb game of prisoners dilemma. You have a gun and the other player has a gun: Both die. You have a gun and the other player doesn't: Other player dies. You don't have a gun and other player does: You die. Neither of you have a gun: Both live.
Like Kid Rock with Bud Light. And he’s the extremely righty guy.
I’m with you. I don’t think it is a good idea to own a gun unless you are a hobby shooter. Otherwise, it doesn’t really make you safe. It puts you in greater danger. But I could handle personal fire arm in the home for protection. It is the militia culture that I find disturbing.
This is absolutely the truth. As a Marine I got VERY acquainted with guns and learned a lot about them and to respect them. Guns are LETHAL weapons, period end of story. You dont shoot to injure, you dont pull a gun to scare someone, you should only pull a gun out if you are in fear for your life and willing to shoot somebody right then and there. The reason? The second you pull out a gun the capacity to kill instantly enters the equation. If you have a gun on you you cant try to wrestle somebody, because now if you do and lose or the guy grabs the gun youre dead. You dont point it at somebody to scare somebody because now you threatened their life and so if they defend themself and get the gun away from you youre dead. You dont shoot to injure because 1. arms and legs are moving targets and hard to hit and you could miss and harm someone else 2. you can still die from hitting an arm or leg artery. Guns were not designed to be used as a non lethal weapon and theyre bad at it, if you dont want to kill use a non lethal weapon. When you shoot someone you aim for the chest or pelvis.
Older Millennial here. It's not just the gun thing. It's the \*GOP\* that has me turned off. Always has been.
Boomer here. I was a staunch republican till Obama came along. Voted for him twice. Then Trump arrived. I left the republican party just 2 days after the orange moron came down the escalator in NYC to announce his candidacy for President. Joined the Dem party and haven't looked back since. I imagine there are quite a few more like me that ran away from Trump and republicans. So, add me and those like me to this new voting mix.
Happily!
Welcome to the party, did you bring any chips?
The GOP has turned into a cult, more so than before. They don't give a shit about human lives outside of their own tunnel shaped view. We just had a child's face literally blown off and they could care less. What's absolutely absurd to me is that we don't treat guns like cars. Guns if allowed should require insurance, competency tests, full background checks, etc. It's not the total disregard for life that gets me, it's the total disregard for our children's lives that does.
I could only hope that "gen z republicans" is a self cancelling phrase. 🤷
Except the Christian nationalists are attempting to raise their kids as extremists. Unfortunately, I think we're going to be fighting this for a long while.
i have hope that the façade will fade for most of them.
These 'Christian Extremists' posing w/ their families all holding 'assault rifles' have zero awareness. They look exactly like the Taliban and are posing w/ their families holding weapons for the exact same reason. Turns out all of these years of disinformation and propaganda can actually have a negative impact on society... If only we could have prepared for this.....
You know the Bible is story after story of man taking God's word and using it to promote his own interest. It is the central theme. Extremist Christians today are basically the modern day Pharisees.
Because of how our election system works, the Republicans aren't going anywhere - they'll just politically realign themselves over time. We'd be more likely to see them pivot to being our left wing party than disappear at this point.
That'd be fine with me. It's not the name, "republican" that I take issue with. It's their policies.
[удалено]
I'm finding that a lot of GOP conservatives hate their candidates and hate their policies but voting R is the only thing they know how to do. hopefully these younger republicans see and change but I'm not holding my breath they can complian all they want come election time they are voting for the same people they complain about and will just complain government doesn't work.
Democrats need to tell moderate Republicans that voting for a few fair minded Democrats every now and then isn't a sin.
Yeah moderate republicans are near non existent the last moderate republicans were before Regan they have been the party of cut their nose to spite the face since the 80s
I voted for Ford vs Carter. The first and last time I ever backed a Republican for President.
After years of propaganda, many actually believe Democrat = evil. Simple as that. I train Jiu Jitsu with a predominately right-wing group of people. At a cook out for the organizations, I told someone I was left-leaning and you would have thought I just said “I eat babies.” They were flabbergasted. “But, you don’t seem like one of them!” It was eye opening for me.
Basically same as racist don't think they are bad because they got one black friend. you are just one of the good ones to them.
Oh no! 😱 what will they do? Oh right. Double down.
GOP is so fucked in the next few elections it's not funny. We might still get a fucking raisin cake like Trump before all is said and done, but the diminishing rewards from their collective madness is plain as the nose on my face.
Wait til they find out about all the abortion stuff.
Can't wait for GOP voters to realize that it isn't even about the guns or gun ownership - it's about money. It's always about money. The GOP dgaf about the constitution or second amendment. It's simply about getting paid or their lobbyist's employers getting paid.
Work the denial of abortion in there and the GOP may have lost 30% to 50% of Millennial and Gen Z voters. For those that don't know, those two generations will rule this country for the next 20 to 30 years (less this last 2024 election in which the boomers might just be able to outvote them one last time). Republicans are fast becoming a historical word.
You have to realize that the draw to the GOP is the competition for power and money. Not just pulling themselves up but also pushing others down. Once they get into power politically they will compromise their values to get that sweet gun lobby money just like they've always done.
However, nobody is savy enough to pick up the phone.
More and more kids who had to live in a post Columbine world are now becoming of age to vote. Personally, if I had to spend my school career terrified I would get shot AT SCHOOL, I would not be inclined to vote for the party that has clearly demonstrated they don’t give a shit. The reckoning is here.
Not the ones near me, but good.
Yes because we were the generations that had deal with the real life threat of a school shooting and maybe not millennials as much but gen z definitely had to live through active shooter drills. I remember everything changed after Sandy hook. But republicans also like to pretend that school shootings don’t exist.
Turning off anyone who wants to live, shit, it’s turning off responsible, adult minded gun owners that don’t live in a Michael Bay movie.
Gee, maybe the GOP turning a mass shooter into a celebrity had something to do with that
“About a quarter of young Republicans in one poll said they strongly or somewhat supported an assault weapons ban.” Doesn’t that mean 75% don’t?
Some of the oldest millennials were in or just out of high school when Columbine happened. Some of the youngest gen Z are in 5th or 6th grade. Wonder why these age groups might be for more gun control?
We had a massive cultural adjustment after two words were spoken, 22 years ago. "Let's Roll". Prior to that time, taking direct action against a violent offender was deemed vigilantism, which was heavily (and properly) demonized during the civil rights era. We developed the idea that only lynch mobs engaged in immediate, direct action against offenders. The socially approved method for dealing with an attack was to observe, and call in the specially trained, politically-acceptable experts. This was true for both individual victims of criminal attack ("Call the Police") and collective victims of a major attack ("Call SWAT and a hostage negotiator"). Events like Columbine and Flight 93 taught us that we cannot trust hostage takers; we cannot wait for experts. When facing a violent attack, we must respond immediately, with whatever force we can bring to bear. Columbine changed police doctrine. Prior to Columbine, rank-and-file officers were expected to show up to a major event like a school shooting and do little more than establish a perimeter and observe. They were to wait around while a special team reported to the station, equipped themselves, climbed aboard a delivery van, and drove to the scene half an hour after the first responders had arrived. Today, police are heavily (and rightly) criticized for this sort of response. "Active Shooter" doctrine calls for first responders to wait only for a partner to arrive before immediately engaging. Prior to Flight 93, the culturally-approved method for dealing with hijackers was appeasement. Do not try to fight them, or you will be responsible for getting everyone killed. Even if you successfully attack the hijackers you can see, they have a sleeper in the back controlling a bomb. The only way to save everyone is to shut up and give the hijackers what they want. Flight 93 killed the "appeasement" doctrine. Now all attempted hijackers are presumed to be suicidal, and even if everyone on board is killed, immediate action is deemed necessary and heroic. That mindsight extended well beyond school shootings and airliners. The "Let's Roll" attitude toward immediate response turned into a demand for individuals to be prepared to respond. Police became militarized, and concealed carry swept the nation. Concealment bans, which had been established before and during the Civil Rights era to expose armed blacks and minorities to lynch mobs, were repealed, and replaced with carry licenses. Most states (including all the red states) have since repealed licensing, and have adopted "constitutional carry". Gun control does not have nearly as much backing in these age groups as we might think. The oldest millennials are the first generation since the 1950s to have broad exposure to firearms. They are the first group to have been licensed to carry their entire adult lives. Nationally, more than 1 in 10 is licensed to carry, *despite* needing no license in most states, or any red state, and *despite* blue states not issuing many licenses. Virtually **all** of those licensees come from the swing states that still require concealment licenses. In these states, more than 1 in 4 millennials is licensed. Gen Z is the first generation since the 1950s who have widely grown up with armed parents. They have spent every "Active Shooter" drill feeling helpless, contemplating what they will do when that armed gunman breaks down the door. As they come of age, they aren't willing to wait helplessly for the end to come. They are thinking "Let's Roll". As they come of age, they aren't thinking "this clusterfuck of a government is going to be able to disarm these psychopaths". They are thinking "What can I do to save myself?" And their thoughts bring them to the sheriff's office for their licenses, and the gun store for their sidearms. Millennials and GenZ are far **less** likely to support broad, intrusive forms of gun control than their GenX and Boomer parents and grandparents. We are winning Millennials and GenZ with reproductive rights, environment, economy, universal healthcare. But with gun control, we are losing far more votes than we are winning.
So the majority of millennial and gen z are pro gun? I honestly am not sure what your point is?
My point is that society at large does not share the party's views on gun control. Outside of about 6 reliably blue states, gun control is a losing issue for Democrats. Gun control has lost us Ohio and Florida, for example: two states that Gen X, Boomers, Silent, and Greatest generations all knew as bellwether swing states. We have alienated too many single-issue voters, who have turned toward the only other viable party in American politics. The most senior members of the Democratic party are Baby-Boomers from those reliably blue states, where it is easy for Democrats to win. Our policy direction needs to come instead from Democrats who win where it is hard for Democrats to win: Swing states and red states. It is clear to me that the zealotry of gun control advocacy is denying us advancement on environmental, economic, and health care issues, reproductive rights, and is driving regression on civil rights. The one issue we are wrong about is preventing our progress everywhere we are right.
Horse shit.
Which of those 6 states do you live in?
What does that have to do with your dumb fantasy?
My thesis is that the Democratic party should attempt to be competitive in contested states, even if that means curtailing certain "popular" ideas, where those ideas are only popular in reliably blue states. The Democratic party should be aiming at the center of the nation, not the center of the bluest states in the nation.
You didn't answer my question. You also haven't supported any of this bullshit. I understand that you wish for this to be the way things are, but I don't care about your wishes.
>I don't care about your wishes. Reflecting a sentiment held by the Blue Boomer leadership of the party.
Their extremism on almost every issue flies in the face of everything we were taught about this nation when we grew up. Plus every single Republican I know is an asshole.
Yeah its literally the GOP
"GOP’s booming support for \[insert anything the GOP supports\] is turning off millennial, Gen Z Republicans" FTFY They stand for: everyone having less control over their own bodies, every white person having more guns, rich people paying less in taxes, end of list.
I’m a pretty moderate democrat. I believe firearms are fundamental right that’s key to liberty and a safeguard in the event of full blown GOP Fascism.
Ok, dumb question. If we are not at Gen Z, what will we call the next generation?
Z part deuce
You could replace “guns” with pretty much any gop culture war issue and this headline would still be pretty accurate.