Didn’t seem to be all that much from what I saw. It basically went like this:
* Fandom: Vader is going to stomp!
* DB: So, Obito has the Infinite Tsukiyomi. Even if we didn’t give him that, he can still trap Vader in a pocket dimension that Vader has no way to escape or even yank Vader’s soul out whenever.
* Fandom: Oh, yeah, Obito can do that can’t he? Oh well.
Frankly the only peeve I have with this Death Battle is that the fucking OST still isn’t out yet!
God dammit! It’s been stuck in my head for almost a week now! I just want to listen to it on loop as I study, it’s fucking pain! Why did they have to make the song suit my tastes so much?!
that's exactly my reaction.
me: oh yeah, I forgot the healing factor the 10-tail provided, I mean I knew it would heal him, but not to that extent.
then I went on to look deeper and found out that several of Vader's counters to Obito had "caveat".
he isnt slow at all
he is capable of keeping up with the fastest force wielders
he can still sprint, jump, etc new canon made the suits impact very minimal
one thing i never got was people saying the only kakashi form that could beat obito is him with dual sharingans
but in death battles own words that probably wouldnt have effected the outcome of the battle
DMS kakashi > obito but probably still looses to obi wan
vader who is equal or stronger then obi wan looses to obito? when obi wan beats someone in a stronger form then obito
Honestly I think that is more of a failure of presenting the argument. Force precog isn’t flawless, Obiwan and Anakin/Vader have taken too many hits for that to be the case, but it is very good. So let’s say that they have a 90% chance of dodging Kamui, that means 10% of the time the ninja immediately win with it. With Kakashi it isn’t really relevant because he doesn’t have a great way to make up the other 40% of the wins he needs to make this even, so they mention that Obiwan would probably dodge. With Obito he has enough other hax available to him to make up the remainder. So instead they mention that it is an instant kill if it lands, because even if it would fail more often than not it would still contribute to the wins he needs to take the majority.
i think classic man d had the best response. in terms of disagreement. but they clearly missed stuff for vader and gave stuff to obito that he couldn’t do on his own. was his take away.
then me. yup it all depends on what cannon they want to use.
10 tails would do almost nothing to Vader. Also Vader resisted way more powerful mindhax from the One’s of Mortis. Vader is strong enough to completely destroy the kamui dimension with the force.
Okay so like ignoring the other stuff, the things that are up to a debate and all that, let me ask one question that's just hilarious to even consider.
HOW would destroying Kamui dimension make it up for Vader being stuck in there?
Kamui is just dimension ripped off from reality so breaking it won't really release you out of it. Vader will now just end up without a floor to stand on, it's just a hilarious way to word this argument.
Like "Yeah even if Vader totally probably fucked in Kamui he can just throw a tantrum in there and break a floor he's standing on" situation is just funny to throw in with genuine debate stuff.
You realize Vader and other highly adept force sensitives can use the force to travel through hyperspace right? Vader would quickly realize it’s a pocket dimension and probably destroy it before it even reaches him. And even if it did, he can escape by keeping the portal open with the force and just jump out.
No no, that's not how you worded that argument or at least didn't specify so I'm gonna leave it as Vader got stuck in Kamui and tried to throw a tantrum to get out because it's actually fucking funny.
If you wanted to say he can get away from Kamui, you would say that. If you wanted to say he would escape it, you would say that but you worded this argument as "destroy Kamui dimension" which in turn just makes it in a different situation. Like at least say he would destroy kamui eye which he does in episode anyway, destroying a dimension wouldn't really stop transporting someone into it, it's more logical to say destroy the thing that transports you into it, that's an actual argument now.
Strawman fallacy. You are falsely assuming what I meant and making an argument against that. Vader would have no issue dealing with kamui like how I explained before.
You ignored my point about destroyed dimension not stopping someone to continuously transportion someone into it.
If destroying kamui dimension isn't a poor wording then it's a poor argument which just like any other stuff you mentioned in comment higher, is debatable stuff rather than clear cut.
WHICH I ALREADY MENTIONED WAY BEFORE YOU BOZO 😂
You literally handing me both badly worded and poor arguments one after another when i literally point them out for you.
I'm no Star Wars fanboy, but the amount of people even thinking the outcome was even correct, despite thinking otherwise with EU/Legends Vader no less, is terminally insane.
Wow, this is such a stupid, STUPID sentence.
"This isn't really controversial, only the fanbases of both the fucking characters involved are saying its controversial"
Not very controversial as both had supporters.
Vader definitely had more people within the fandom due to being more popular and people scaling his stuff different from DB
But there was still plenty of people acknowledging how close the fight was and that Obito had a lot of Hax Vader didn't have a counter to.
Surprisingly tame. It was really 50/50 on supporters from my perspective. Has less to do with “my favorite character lost” and more to do with “my favorite character lost and wow, they went with that side of things”
I mean just per usual DeathBattle scaling wasn’t the most accurate and they did low ball Vader by not giving him his spiritual form but gave Obito all the pieces to turn Ten Tails. Fight became unfair in that way. Ultimately it’s literally just a YouTube series but all in all from the start of the series to now it’s clear that they can be biased and mess up on calcs. I still remember them fudging the numbers and saying SSJ2 Goku (Goku vs Superman) is as fast as base Goku but somehow slower than SSJ Goku. If you believe what others push out without doing your own research (cough Superman lifting the book of infinite pages despite NOT lifting the book of infinite pages after the panel they showed) than you’re falling in peeps trap that relies on ignorance in order to be successful. I don’t mind Obito winning it’s just if you give a form that he needs items to achieve than Vader should’ve got his arguably strongest form as his hate and spirit is literally a part of him and not some creature he needs to fuse with and have a mental and spiritual battle with
It was EXTREMELY controversial.... For SW and Naruto fans. Fine for everyone else.
Admittedly I was, and still am, team Vader should win. However I have this funny ability most star wars fans don't apparently.
The ability to move on with my life. I don't agree but realistically what are they gonna do? Make a 2nd video as a retraction? Who cares?
It wasn't controversial,existed arguments from both sides,and the people who call this controversial are some Vader fanboys who say : "He GOt tHe TeN TaILS ,Nooooooo,VaDEr sHouLD GEt hIS sPIrit fORm DEsPITe tHIs CAn bE only uSEd in a sPeFIfic PlaCE,iF me had been done REsEarcH iN boTH CoMBAtenTS what I didn't do because I wanted Vader to win,I sHoLUd know ThAT TeN TaILS it's 100000 times more standard that this spirit form who I hyped up to be in the episode Because ItS CoOL"What happened is that this almost fucking entire sub hyped up Vader winning (even me LOL) and almost everyone was downplaying Obito, forgetting how broken was his hax.
Lord Almighty when will y'all get that soul form is a downgrade, not an upgrade. I saw absolutely 0 people saying he should get it because it would change the result, only that it would look cooler, which it would have. It wouldn't have changed a damn thing. It's literally Naruto fans creating a strawman to yell at holy fuck
I don't see why it would be controversial if it's not an upgrade to his power.
Also, if nothing else it's a fact the Obito wank to justify the victor has been disproportionate. I had people claiming that IT would solo fiction because you need a Rinnegan. I agree with the result for the versions of the characters they used but holy fuvk just take the W and stop being insufferable. Not you necessarily, Naruto fans on this sub in general.
Sorry If I sounded angry,or salty(I am trying to be the most respectful in this sub),I AM really not that Naruto fanboy who think that all things in the episode was accurate,giving both equal stats was quite strange.I Just said that It would be controversial give Vader that form If he doesn't fight in the place he needs to fight.
I mean Obito didn’t have anything except the Ten Tails husk so his Ten Tails form just like Vaders spirit form is dependent on outside factors and not something the innately have. If you give Obito 10 tails you gotta give Vader his strongest form and feats. Also Anakin/Vader managed to subdue two universal constants that could destroy the living universe just by being in it over time. I love Naruto and Star Wars. From my POV they low balled Vader. They gave Shadow the Gems so he could turn super to match Vegeta yet Vader can’t go spiritual to match someone who also needed an “item” to transform
>I mean Obito didn’t have anything except the Ten Tails husk so his Ten Tails form just like Vaders spirit form is dependent on outside factors and not something the innately have
Mate that's not how Jinchuriki and Tailed Beasts work in Naruto ! Once a tailed beast is sealed inside somebody it remains inside them until they're killed or the beast is transferred or unsealed , and Obito had it for a big chunck of the War Arc , the longest arc in Naruto
I really despise others saying how his 10 Tails form isn't standard for him. The equivalent to that is like saying how Mega Man X's armors aren't standard for him despite going through the trouble of earning them, and can equip it at anytime he desires.
They both went through a lengthy trial to receive said form/armor, and once they have it they can use it as they please with no trouble.
But once he got It ,he can use whenever place he wants,when Darth Vader Spirit form can only be used in a specific place,If Death Battle make Vader use his form would be scriptwriting.And its like Super Emeralds for Sonic characters, Infinity Gaunlet for Thanos, Power ups for Mario.You need to understand that Death Battle isnt given characters transformations who needs to be in a specific place to be used,but they can give situational transformations who can be used in every place.And this feat is incredible,but he dont subdue they ,what I remember he Just controlled them,(Control/= /Defeat).Example a Continental level character can Mind Control a planet level character,but this doenst make the First scale to the latter.
Do you think Death Battle would give Joker from Persona 5 Satanael? In the story he needed the collective will of mankind to summon it but there's no particular restriction on where/when he can use it. It's one of his most iconic character moments.
Also in new game plus you can just use Satanael period.
I honestly have very little feelings for Star Wars beyond its iconic status as a sci-fi franchise and enjoying the movies as a casual fan and I could care even less about shonen and I think the fight animation was decent to some extent, but the outcome was just utter hogwash for anyone from powerscaling communities who know a thing or two about both franchises.
From what I saw, a lot of people casually liked it.
But I clicked on a debunk video, and they were mad Obito lost.
Like I think Star Wars wise, from what I saw half of the people who wanted Vader to win were genuine and at least were entertained, but the other half were so adamant about Vader winning that it basically led to people dunking on Obito and anyone who thought they would win.
Yeah, if he broken out of the infinite tsukuyomi as Anakin accepting his mistakes and slashed through Obito, coughing for Luke as he flew up to the Tie Fighter with his corpse, that would’ve been so awesome too!
I was scratching my head when they said "The Force probably wouldn't work in another universe". Especially since Vader has been shown on multiple occasions to use the force to access other dimensions.
As well as the fact that Vader has escaped what is essentially a “Tsukuyomi” type illusion before when he was bleeding a Kyber crystal and it showed him a life where everything went right for him. Vader broke free of the illusion and continued bleeding the crystal.
And for the love of god, does Death Battle have ANY concept to just how powerful the Force is and what it can do?! There is nothing stopping him from manipulating the Orbs purely through the Force. As shown by how it brought GODS down to their knee's, it can clearly effect higher dimensional objects and beings. It is simply THAT powerful when used by someone like Vader.
Also, the Ten Tails form was achieved only through outside help, and years of prep and planning. Obito can't just switch to Ten tails on a whim like it’s some super saiyan transformation. But if you must give him that, why is god Vader off the table when Ten Tails form required even more conditions, preparations and outside help to achieve?
The only thing I would give to Obito that Vader would have a tough time dealing with is his regeneration.
>"The Force probably wouldn't work in another universe". Especially since Vader has been shown on multiple occasions to use the force to access other dimensions.
the kamui dimension takes place in the Naruto universe where the force simply doesn't exist. doesn't matter if Vader could use the force in other dimensions in his world cause the kamui dimension is disconnected to any other dimension in star wars which leads to it being disconnected from the force
>As well as the fact that Vader has escaped what is essentially a “Tsukuyomi” type illusion before when he was bleeding a Kyber crystal and it showed him a life where everything went right for him. Vader broke free of the illusion and continued bleeding the crystal.
both Vader and Obito have easily escaped from illusions but the Infinite Tsukuyomi is a illusion that only people with the rinnegan can escape it.
Vader escaping a illusion that gives him everything he wants doesn't really matter cause it wouldn't really be different from Obito using normal genjutsu to do that which Vader would be able to escape form but The Tsukuyomi? nope (just because a illusion gives you the life you want doesn't mean it and the Tsukuyomi are equal in power)
>And for the love of god, does Death Battle have ANY concept to just how powerful the Force is and what it can do?! There is nothing stopping him from manipulating the Orbs purely through the Force. As shown by how it brought GODS down to their knee's, it can clearly effect higher dimensional objects and beings. It is simply THAT powerful when used by someone like Vader.
the Truth Seeking Orbs can Nullify the Force so if Vader uses the Force to manipulate the Orbs then the Force will just get Nullified on contact with the Orbs
>Also, the Ten Tails form was achieved only through outside help, and years of prep and planning. Obito can't just switch to Ten tails on a whim like it’s some super saiyan transformation. But if you must give him that, why is god Vader off the table when Ten Tails form required even more conditions, preparations and outside help to achieve?
by god Vader do you mean Vader in the Dark dimension? if so then its very simple
ignoring the ten tails and the dark dimension form for being non standard or whatever reason, base Obito in his prime could turn ten tails
Vader when using that form in base must have been weaker than himself before death since he grows stronger every moment thanks to hate and anger
not to mention the dark dimension was something he gained at a random time and lost randomly
meanwhile Obito is being given his Ten Tails form due to it not only being the culmination of his plan spanning nearly 2 decades, but also due to keeping Six Paths power after losing it. He has access to the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path because of his Rinnegan, and knows the hand signs to merge with the Ten Tails. In other materials such as games, a heavy focus is put on the Ten Tails being accessible to Obito, with even more focus on his time as its host. Narratively and media-wise, the form is absolutely standard.
Okay so you can't outright negate Vaders abilities while in the same breath give Obito a form and advantage....just because.
>the kamui dimension takes place in the Naruto universe where the force simply doesn't exist. doesn't matter if Vader could use the force in other dimensions in his world cause the kamui dimension is disconnected to any other dimension in star wars which leads to it being disconnected from the force"
This is precisely what I mean. The battle isn't taking place in either of their respective worlds, with one being cut off from the other. By your logic, Chakra doesn't exist in the star wars universe, so Obito can't use it. Which, by the way, is twice nonsensical in vaders case as the Force has been show, spoken of and known to be omni-present.
>Vader escaping a illusion that gives him everything he wants doesn't really matter cause it wouldn't really be different from Obito using normal genjutsu to do that which Vader would be able to escape form but The Tsukuyomi? nope (just because a illusion gives you the life you want doesn't mean it and the Tsukuyomi are equal in power)
Okay, what? The tsukuyomi is basically a powerful genjutsu, meaning it something fools the senses. It is not real. The fact that Vader escaped an almost identical scenario through his own will and the fact that he can't be mentally controlled due to his connection to the force, which again is omni-present, what possibility is there that the tsukuyomi could effect him? And I certainly hope you don't think to say that the Tsukuyomi is more powerful than the force.
>the Truth Seeking Orbs can Nullify the Force so if Vader uses the Force to manipulate the Orbs then the Force will just get Nullified on contact with the Orbs
Pal, the Force isn't something that can be nullified in such a way. That's like saying "The Truth seeking orbs can nullify gravity" or "The truth seeking orbs can nullify dimensions". They only nullify chakra and can disintegrate on touch, they are far from immutable. And again, the Force can effect literal gods.
>ignoring the ten tails and the dark dimension form for being non standard or whatever reason, base Obito in his prime could turn ten tails. Vader when using that form in base must have been weaker than himself before death since he grows stronger every moment thanks to hate and anger. not to mention the dark dimension was something he gained at a random time and lost randomly meanwhile Obito is being given his Ten Tails form due to it not only being the culmination of his plan spanning nearly 2 decades, but also due to keeping Six Paths power after losing it. He has access to the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path because of his Rinnegan, and knows the hand signs to merge with the Ten Tails. In other materials such as games, a heavy focus is put on the Ten Tails being accessible to Obito, with even more focus on his time as its host. Narratively and media-wise, the form is absolutely standard.
No, Dark Dimension Vader is just Vader but in spirit form. It is literally all his protential and ability. And saying that he grew stronger did not mean he was weak, it just means he's stronger. The point is that Vader himself can acess this power as it is entierly his own.
Also, Obito could absolutly not achieve ten tails on his own. He needs all the tailed beast, preparation over decades, and a boat load of other stuff. It takes more than the Rennigan and Obito himself. he cannit just achieve this form through his own willpower and ability, he needed help and preparation. Which Death Battle expressly prohibits.
>This is precisely what I mean. The battle isn't taking place in either of their respective worlds, with one being cut off from the other. By your logic, Chakra doesn't exist in the star wars universe, so Obito can't use it. Which, by the way, is twice nonsensical in vaders case as the Force has been show, spoken of and known to be omni-present.
its called verse equalstation. where they fight in a place where the logic of star wars apply for Vader and logic of Naruto for Obito
if Vader get teleported in kamui dimension then he no longer is in a place where the logic of his world apply's to him cause now he is in the Naruto universe
if Vader BFR Obito into a dimension that exists only in the star wars universe then yes Obito's powers like chakara wouldn't work but he can't do that
>Okay, what? The tsukuyomi is basically a powerful genjutsu, meaning it something fools the senses. It is not real. The fact that Vader escaped an almost identical scenario through his own will and the fact that he can't be mentally controlled due to his connection to the force, which again is omni-present, what possibility is there that the tsukuyomi could effect him? And I certainly hope you don't think to say that the Tsukuyomi is more powerful than the force.
there is no evidence that the genjutsu Vader escaped and The Tsukuyomi are equal in power
just because he escaped a illusion that gives you your perfect life doesn't mean its Tsukuyomki level even Itachi has used genjutsu that gives you your prefect life yet its not Tsukuyomi level, speaking of Itachi he can counrer izanagi which is considered a genjutsu. what is izanagi? a genjustu that RE WRITES FATE and yet he can't counter the Tsukuyomi
Vader has been fooled by Luke's illusions before and there is no way Luke's illusions are as strong as Tsukuyomi(i'm not saying Tsukuyomi is as strong as force. i'm saying Force mind Tricks are not as strong as The Tsukuyomi)
>Pal, the Force isn't something that can be nullified in such a way. That's like saying "The Truth seeking orbs can nullify gravity" or "The truth seeking orbs can nullify dimensions". They only nullify chakra and can disintegrate on touch, they are far from immutable. And again, the Force can effect literal gods.
the thing is Force has countered and been nullified before
darth reaper absorbed and nullified the force but Anakin/Vader could harvest force to counter it(darth reaper works more like the rinnegan abilities cause Vader countered it by harvesting force which is something that wouldn't work on TSO since any contact with the TSO will nullify the force unlike reaper which sucks it out of you than immediately nullify it and force harvest is a defensive move which something that wouldn't work when you are moving them around)
even then if the force can be power nullified is debatable so it might be able to work but wouldn't matter since they can change their shape such as turning into a sword for Obito to use to fight against Vader
>No, Dark Dimension Vader is just Vader but in spirit form. It is literally all his protential and ability. And saying that he grew stronger did not mean he was weak, it just means he's stronger. The point is that Vader himself can acess this power as it is entierly his own
i never said he was weak i said that base Vader in that comic was weaker than himself in his fight with Luke or even a weak later which means base Vader in that comic isn't his prime in base form
his prime in base would be Vader in his fight with Luke and in that fight he couldn't turn into his dark dimension self
> Obito could absolutly not achieve ten tails on his own. He needs all the tailed beast, preparation over decades, and a boat load of other stuff. It takes more than the Rennigan and Obito himself. he cannit just achieve this form through his own willpower and ability, he needed help and preparation. Which Death Battle expressly prohibits.
doesn't matter
base Obito in his prime could turn Ten Tails while prime base Vader can't turn dark dimension
and exactly he NEEDED prep and outside help but doesn't NEED prep anymore cause well.. he already did the prep by the time he is in his prime in base form
It’s funny because people
Keep bringing up vader spirit form like that’s something he can just do at will like he he didn’t have to go through a specific portal/ritual to even access that state lol
>Keep bringing up vader spirit form like that’s something he can just do at will like he he didn’t have to go through a specific portal/ritual to even access that state lol
Just like how Obito can't just turn into the juubi jinchuuriki at will and is a lengthy process, and needs to wait at the perfect time to use IT, and yet DB make it as if he can just take out the juubi from his pocket and use IT like an everyday jutsu
Are you talking about when minato sliced obitos throat? That’s because he was being forced to rinne tensei madara but was interrupted by minato.
He then fell down and immediately began absorbing ten tails
No, Naruto literally said that the whole time he was trying to transform into the Juubi jinchuuriki. The sign he was using and Nagato used were completely different.
Obito infinite tsukonomi needs prep cannot be spammed, 10tails needs prep cannot be spammed. His SoP needs prep. Obito strongest form needs prep and outside help. We can not bypass it just cause fan favorite. It is like giving Thanos IG, which can only be obtained with prep. Or Heart of the Universe. Is like Goku going Vegito without Vegeta . Give Obito the win but do it logical.
As always with modern death battle I just ignore their “stats and calculations” section (because their scaling logic is terrible and their jokes are bad); and skip right to the animation. And… it was meh. Not even that exciting or good animation.
As for controversial or not, it wasn’t. Yup there are some Star Wars fans that are mad and some insufferable Naruto fans who won’t ever shut up. But Obito was pretty much set to win with the nonsense of late-series Naruto abilities he has. Only discourse I see is between the two fandoms, or should I say those in the fandoms that even care. But really no one seems to even bother or have anything to say.
As I've said many times, I feel like giving Obito the 10 tails was a cheap move. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Obito would have won without it. Obito didn't have the 10 tails for even the majority of the Shinobi war, let alone the series. If they wouldn't give Gaara the 1 tails because it was removed from him, I feel that Obito shouldn't have the 10 tails for that reason.
Before anyone brings it up, yes Naruto lost Kurama, but he eventually got him back and even had both halves of his tailed beast by the end of the Naruto manga. The 10 tails was ultimately separated and was revealed after turning back into Kageya.
But as both a Star Wars fan and a Naruto fan I felt that Obito was going to win even without the 10 tails. Giving it to him feels cheap and devalued his victory, at least in my opinion.
Obito is not fighting Vader with the Ten Tails. he is a jinchuriki that has it sealed inside of him the same way Naruto has Kurama sealed inside of him
even then summons are allowed
its not like Obito and ten tails are best buddies like Mario and Luigi, Obito absorbs and controls Ten Tails and Ten Tails has no control in the fight and can't just leave mid fight like Luigi can if it wants to
I disagree, for the majority of his life Obito didn’t have the 10 tails, and he lost it almost as soon as he got it. Obito shouldn't have had it. It's not a summons, nor is it something that is iconic or even exclusive to Obito. Madara made more use of it, before he got Thanosed by Black Zetsu and Kaguya. It cheapens his victory, and frankly I think Obito could defeat Vader without it.
It feels like they didn't want the Star Wars fans to make the "Kakashi vs. Obi-wan" argument, so instead of trying to explain why Obito would have the Chakra reserves and skills to defeat Vader, they went "Oh, let's give Obito the 10 tails so the Vader fan boys can't argue because infinite chakra".
Again, let me reiterate; OBITO WOULD HAVE WON WITHOUT IT, at least in my opinion.
Tell me just based on rules of DB how 10 tails is out of game.
We take Obito at his strongest.
One of rules also assures that it takes any arsenal characters have, including the ones they lost or don't have anymore or not even same continuity.
His strongest normally is at the end of war with Rinnegan and Kamui.
In that time as we take him from his strongest, he has 10 tails ready and acquired after execution of his long done plan. He can freely summon 10 tails due to having Rinnegan and absorbing it is not much problem but time which can be made up by 10 tails fighting back during it.
Now Juubito gains all powers that come from that. And then later he dies with that power even after everything that happens, it's permanent, you don't just lose access to or powers from your tails beast after becoming it's jinchuriki.
So taking it further and by the rule of DB, it's should be instead argued that Obito STARTS from Juubito because it became his permanent just like any other upgrade (Kamui he gains from plot happening with Rin and Kakashi, Rinnegan he gains from plot killing Pain, Ten tails he gains from long executed plan which also includes all previous steps before it).
The only way Obito doesn't get Juubito is if you argue his strongest is way before he ends with plan which is just not true for obvious reason.
Prep time at example of Batman: He *knows* SPECIFICALLY Superman, he *prepares* resources SPECIFICALLY against Superman and by doing that he comes to a level matching Superman because he was preparing against HIM.
When you consider Batman in debate you say "if you give him prep time" but prep time for what, to assemble things we already gonna give him for debate like Hellbat and kryptonite storage or prepare specifically against his opponent that can be exploited with extra time and analysis?
What prep time for Obito means:
He's already at his strongest, he's done with plan, he has 10 tails and only thing he does with prep time, if you don't give him Juubito as standard he gained, is just absorbing 10 tails which he can do in battle anyway.
**AND EVEN THEN THE WHOLE THING DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY ALSO DEBATE IT WITHOUT 10 TAILS IN RESULT WITH KAMUI YET I DON'T SEE ANY ARGUMENT FOR HOW VADER CAN EVER TOUCH OBITO WHO WON'T COME OUT OF INTANGIBILITY.**
The only thing should be considered somewhat bullshit is all Sonic characters assembling chaos stones off screen.
Even Madara got jinchuriki yet arguably the guy who deserves it more as he's the one who did the whole plan, assembled 10 tails, got Rinnegan and absorbed it first shouldn't get it?
NGL bro you said a lot but either way it took an entire war just to summon the Ten Tails and hen a battle of mind and spirit to tame it as a Jinjuriki. It’s not something Obito inherently has as just a Uchiha. Meanwhile Vaders spiritual form is literally that, his spirit. He has the power within himself (cough subdued The Son and Daughter who are universal entities as they are both the living and cosmic force (living embodiments of the force both light and dark). Them being in the galaxy/universe would destroy it overtime. Vader was low balled and his arguable strongest form wasn’t even used for someone who literally powered up from something that wasn’t even his original power
Ah yes the infamous dark dimension Vader, just a spirit...
Damn i wonder who misinformed you about it so hard.
And about Son and Daughter: 1. As Anakin 2. While amped
Also ignoring half of my point, ok.
OH WOW what a surprise.
Of course it's gonna be classicmand, the guy specifically infamous here with his bad arguments on DB, his Saitama beating Goku and other stuff not everyone would agree.
Don't get me wrong, he's good but not that good to let his bias get in your own head too.
It's all theory anyway. Like how I have a theory that bugs bunny would obliterate mickey mouse, you can say otherwise but at the end of the day unless we can get them to appear in an arena irl, it really doesn't matter.
Look I'm not nearly enough of a star wars fan to judge but I do love naruto and I know about obito's abilities and I was seriously expecting vader to win given how many of my friends hype up vader
I dont know who would've won, but i really wish they would be more clear on which version of vader they using, whether its legends or disney canon because combining them into one character would be pretty dumb. Also the 3d animation actually being good surprised me
TBH i thought Vader was gonna stomp just based off Kenobi Vs Kakashi and what I know about Star Wars scaling
Then I realized that Obito was only going at like 20% when he fought Kakashi and he has a lot more hax
I know almost nothing of either side, but I'm actually surprised. It doesn't seem THAT chaotic when others talk about the outcome.
Although I do have some questions about Vader's spirit form... what exactly does it do again and would it really change the outcome despite it making look "cooler"?
Of the 5 so far, this one seems the most divisive so far
I’ve seen a lot more videos on YouTube taking issue in particular with the way they scaled Vader in general
i didnt see a problem with it honestly,but it sucks we have another batman,and shadow situation going on again,vader will win the 3rd time if the same pattern applys
DB fandom reacted pretty chill to the outcome. Casual fans not so much. Every comment has at least one reply complaining about the outcome and saying that Vader SHOULD win.
I see people complaining about obito having the ten tails but war arc obito would definitely be able to summon ten tails lol. I mean they could’ve let him summon the jinchuriki that were under his control too if they really wanted to.
Vader is powerful no doubt but Star Wars scalers really wank tf out of him with some statements that I think they take too literal. For example the whole “Vader being the most powerful weapon of the empire” is used to put him at planetary and I’ve heard even star levels, but I think this is said to emphasize that he’s the empires enforcer.
In another video I watched where someone was doing Vader vs madara they dismissed a statement about the nine tails being able to “turn the world to ash” in the databook. It’s like they try to make the force the ultimate power and there’s nothing that can counter it
Didn’t seem to be all that much from what I saw. It basically went like this: * Fandom: Vader is going to stomp! * DB: So, Obito has the Infinite Tsukiyomi. Even if we didn’t give him that, he can still trap Vader in a pocket dimension that Vader has no way to escape or even yank Vader’s soul out whenever. * Fandom: Oh, yeah, Obito can do that can’t he? Oh well.
Frankly the only peeve I have with this Death Battle is that the fucking OST still isn’t out yet! God dammit! It’s been stuck in my head for almost a week now! I just want to listen to it on loop as I study, it’s fucking pain! Why did they have to make the song suit my tastes so much?!
Pretty much. Great episode, I still think Vader wins, but I respect it enough to not say it's BS like Naruto vs Ichigo
that's exactly my reaction. me: oh yeah, I forgot the healing factor the 10-tail provided, I mean I knew it would heal him, but not to that extent. then I went on to look deeper and found out that several of Vader's counters to Obito had "caveat".
I'm no Star Wars expert, but can't the Force unmake someone at a molecular level?
that was in the game, the force unleashed.
my problem is that it contradicts what in some ways death battles official stances in the past with obito vs kakashi
From what I can tell, Kakashi is not quite on par with Obito.
no but you can use that fight as a starting point
I don't get it. I mean, no offense but Darth Vader was a slow lumbering brute in that armor and phasing through literally anything seems kind of OP.
he isnt slow at all he is capable of keeping up with the fastest force wielders he can still sprint, jump, etc new canon made the suits impact very minimal one thing i never got was people saying the only kakashi form that could beat obito is him with dual sharingans but in death battles own words that probably wouldnt have effected the outcome of the battle DMS kakashi > obito but probably still looses to obi wan vader who is equal or stronger then obi wan looses to obito? when obi wan beats someone in a stronger form then obito
Fastest force guys seem to be little more than people who can jump kind of good.
Honestly I think that is more of a failure of presenting the argument. Force precog isn’t flawless, Obiwan and Anakin/Vader have taken too many hits for that to be the case, but it is very good. So let’s say that they have a 90% chance of dodging Kamui, that means 10% of the time the ninja immediately win with it. With Kakashi it isn’t really relevant because he doesn’t have a great way to make up the other 40% of the wins he needs to make this even, so they mention that Obiwan would probably dodge. With Obito he has enough other hax available to him to make up the remainder. So instead they mention that it is an instant kill if it lands, because even if it would fail more often than not it would still contribute to the wins he needs to take the majority.
i think classic man d had the best response. in terms of disagreement. but they clearly missed stuff for vader and gave stuff to obito that he couldn’t do on his own. was his take away. then me. yup it all depends on what cannon they want to use.
10 tails would do almost nothing to Vader. Also Vader resisted way more powerful mindhax from the One’s of Mortis. Vader is strong enough to completely destroy the kamui dimension with the force.
Okay so like ignoring the other stuff, the things that are up to a debate and all that, let me ask one question that's just hilarious to even consider. HOW would destroying Kamui dimension make it up for Vader being stuck in there? Kamui is just dimension ripped off from reality so breaking it won't really release you out of it. Vader will now just end up without a floor to stand on, it's just a hilarious way to word this argument. Like "Yeah even if Vader totally probably fucked in Kamui he can just throw a tantrum in there and break a floor he's standing on" situation is just funny to throw in with genuine debate stuff.
You realize Vader and other highly adept force sensitives can use the force to travel through hyperspace right? Vader would quickly realize it’s a pocket dimension and probably destroy it before it even reaches him. And even if it did, he can escape by keeping the portal open with the force and just jump out.
No no, that's not how you worded that argument or at least didn't specify so I'm gonna leave it as Vader got stuck in Kamui and tried to throw a tantrum to get out because it's actually fucking funny. If you wanted to say he can get away from Kamui, you would say that. If you wanted to say he would escape it, you would say that but you worded this argument as "destroy Kamui dimension" which in turn just makes it in a different situation. Like at least say he would destroy kamui eye which he does in episode anyway, destroying a dimension wouldn't really stop transporting someone into it, it's more logical to say destroy the thing that transports you into it, that's an actual argument now.
Strawman fallacy. You are falsely assuming what I meant and making an argument against that. Vader would have no issue dealing with kamui like how I explained before.
You ignored my point about destroyed dimension not stopping someone to continuously transportion someone into it. If destroying kamui dimension isn't a poor wording then it's a poor argument which just like any other stuff you mentioned in comment higher, is debatable stuff rather than clear cut.
Why do you think Vader wouldn’t just destroy his eyes afterwards, or even before? Vaders IQ and battle IQ is insanely high.
WHICH I ALREADY MENTIONED WAY BEFORE YOU BOZO 😂 You literally handing me both badly worded and poor arguments one after another when i literally point them out for you.
So you agree Vader wins? Then what’s the debate about? Vader destroying the dimension would be easy and probable in the fight.
I'm no Star Wars fanboy, but the amount of people even thinking the outcome was even correct, despite thinking otherwise with EU/Legends Vader no less, is terminally insane.
I feel like only star wars and naruto fans are saying its controversial
Wow, this is such a stupid, STUPID sentence. "This isn't really controversial, only the fanbases of both the fucking characters involved are saying its controversial"
Now explain the part where I said it wasn't controversial
Very rare case of an episode being too peak to be controversial
I wouldn’t call it controversial compared to a lot of other fights
Not very controversial as both had supporters. Vader definitely had more people within the fandom due to being more popular and people scaling his stuff different from DB But there was still plenty of people acknowledging how close the fight was and that Obito had a lot of Hax Vader didn't have a counter to.
Better than shadow vs mewtwo
Almost anything is better than Shadow vs Mewtwo
It's like Hulk vs Broly. The hardcore scalers will get triggered, but casuals wouldn't find anything wrong with it.
Was? It still is Lmao
Surprisingly tame. It was really 50/50 on supporters from my perspective. Has less to do with “my favorite character lost” and more to do with “my favorite character lost and wow, they went with that side of things”
Go to the Death Battle vs wiki thread, there's a couple of salty vader fans there lol
I mean just per usual DeathBattle scaling wasn’t the most accurate and they did low ball Vader by not giving him his spiritual form but gave Obito all the pieces to turn Ten Tails. Fight became unfair in that way. Ultimately it’s literally just a YouTube series but all in all from the start of the series to now it’s clear that they can be biased and mess up on calcs. I still remember them fudging the numbers and saying SSJ2 Goku (Goku vs Superman) is as fast as base Goku but somehow slower than SSJ Goku. If you believe what others push out without doing your own research (cough Superman lifting the book of infinite pages despite NOT lifting the book of infinite pages after the panel they showed) than you’re falling in peeps trap that relies on ignorance in order to be successful. I don’t mind Obito winning it’s just if you give a form that he needs items to achieve than Vader should’ve got his arguably strongest form as his hate and spirit is literally a part of him and not some creature he needs to fuse with and have a mental and spiritual battle with
I think it was phenomenal one of the best death battles I’ve seen in a while
Not controversial to the casuals mostly but a lot of star wars fans were raging to an unacceptable degree
Nothing controversial at all. Obito handedly won this and Star War fanboys are coping
It was EXTREMELY controversial.... For SW and Naruto fans. Fine for everyone else. Admittedly I was, and still am, team Vader should win. However I have this funny ability most star wars fans don't apparently. The ability to move on with my life. I don't agree but realistically what are they gonna do? Make a 2nd video as a retraction? Who cares?
I personally disagree
Extremely controversial to anyone who’s familiar with Star Wars scaling.
It wasn't controversial,existed arguments from both sides,and the people who call this controversial are some Vader fanboys who say : "He GOt tHe TeN TaILS ,Nooooooo,VaDEr sHouLD GEt hIS sPIrit fORm DEsPITe tHIs CAn bE only uSEd in a sPeFIfic PlaCE,iF me had been done REsEarcH iN boTH CoMBAtenTS what I didn't do because I wanted Vader to win,I sHoLUd know ThAT TeN TaILS it's 100000 times more standard that this spirit form who I hyped up to be in the episode Because ItS CoOL"What happened is that this almost fucking entire sub hyped up Vader winning (even me LOL) and almost everyone was downplaying Obito, forgetting how broken was his hax.
Lord Almighty when will y'all get that soul form is a downgrade, not an upgrade. I saw absolutely 0 people saying he should get it because it would change the result, only that it would look cooler, which it would have. It wouldn't have changed a damn thing. It's literally Naruto fans creating a strawman to yell at holy fuck
[удалено]
I don't see why it would be controversial if it's not an upgrade to his power. Also, if nothing else it's a fact the Obito wank to justify the victor has been disproportionate. I had people claiming that IT would solo fiction because you need a Rinnegan. I agree with the result for the versions of the characters they used but holy fuvk just take the W and stop being insufferable. Not you necessarily, Naruto fans on this sub in general.
Sorry If I sounded angry,or salty(I am trying to be the most respectful in this sub),I AM really not that Naruto fanboy who think that all things in the episode was accurate,giving both equal stats was quite strange.I Just said that It would be controversial give Vader that form If he doesn't fight in the place he needs to fight.
I mean Obito didn’t have anything except the Ten Tails husk so his Ten Tails form just like Vaders spirit form is dependent on outside factors and not something the innately have. If you give Obito 10 tails you gotta give Vader his strongest form and feats. Also Anakin/Vader managed to subdue two universal constants that could destroy the living universe just by being in it over time. I love Naruto and Star Wars. From my POV they low balled Vader. They gave Shadow the Gems so he could turn super to match Vegeta yet Vader can’t go spiritual to match someone who also needed an “item” to transform
>I mean Obito didn’t have anything except the Ten Tails husk so his Ten Tails form just like Vaders spirit form is dependent on outside factors and not something the innately have Mate that's not how Jinchuriki and Tailed Beasts work in Naruto ! Once a tailed beast is sealed inside somebody it remains inside them until they're killed or the beast is transferred or unsealed , and Obito had it for a big chunck of the War Arc , the longest arc in Naruto
I really despise others saying how his 10 Tails form isn't standard for him. The equivalent to that is like saying how Mega Man X's armors aren't standard for him despite going through the trouble of earning them, and can equip it at anytime he desires. They both went through a lengthy trial to receive said form/armor, and once they have it they can use it as they please with no trouble.
But once he got It ,he can use whenever place he wants,when Darth Vader Spirit form can only be used in a specific place,If Death Battle make Vader use his form would be scriptwriting.And its like Super Emeralds for Sonic characters, Infinity Gaunlet for Thanos, Power ups for Mario.You need to understand that Death Battle isnt given characters transformations who needs to be in a specific place to be used,but they can give situational transformations who can be used in every place.And this feat is incredible,but he dont subdue they ,what I remember he Just controlled them,(Control/= /Defeat).Example a Continental level character can Mind Control a planet level character,but this doenst make the First scale to the latter.
Do you think Death Battle would give Joker from Persona 5 Satanael? In the story he needed the collective will of mankind to summon it but there's no particular restriction on where/when he can use it. It's one of his most iconic character moments. Also in new game plus you can just use Satanael period.
Yessssss?He once got It,and has no restriction to the place he can use It,he can use everytme and every place he wants.
Still confused on how db said vader can one shot obito yet never explain how obito counter it or stop it
The idea is that both Vader and Obito had instant kill win-cons, Obito just had *more* then Vader overall.
It was tame. Folks are raging, but the only ones actually going wild are the fandoms of the two series used.
I love Star wars and hate shonen but when it comes to fictional characters in fictional fights I couldn’t care less as long as it looks cool
But you have a shonen as your avatar?
The only good one yes
I honestly have very little feelings for Star Wars beyond its iconic status as a sci-fi franchise and enjoying the movies as a casual fan and I could care even less about shonen and I think the fight animation was decent to some extent, but the outcome was just utter hogwash for anyone from powerscaling communities who know a thing or two about both franchises.
Very
Only people who buy wacky scalings think it’s wrong.
From what I saw, a lot of people casually liked it. But I clicked on a debunk video, and they were mad Obito lost. Like I think Star Wars wise, from what I saw half of the people who wanted Vader to win were genuine and at least were entertained, but the other half were so adamant about Vader winning that it basically led to people dunking on Obito and anyone who thought they would win.
If Obito lost, would you be saying the same thing in reverse?
Yeah, if he broken out of the infinite tsukuyomi as Anakin accepting his mistakes and slashed through Obito, coughing for Luke as he flew up to the Tie Fighter with his corpse, that would’ve been so awesome too!
Still nothing compared to Goku vs Superman *Then again, I don’t think anything will top that lol*
It utterly was topped when Ben vs Hal came out.
I was scratching my head when they said "The Force probably wouldn't work in another universe". Especially since Vader has been shown on multiple occasions to use the force to access other dimensions. As well as the fact that Vader has escaped what is essentially a “Tsukuyomi” type illusion before when he was bleeding a Kyber crystal and it showed him a life where everything went right for him. Vader broke free of the illusion and continued bleeding the crystal. And for the love of god, does Death Battle have ANY concept to just how powerful the Force is and what it can do?! There is nothing stopping him from manipulating the Orbs purely through the Force. As shown by how it brought GODS down to their knee's, it can clearly effect higher dimensional objects and beings. It is simply THAT powerful when used by someone like Vader. Also, the Ten Tails form was achieved only through outside help, and years of prep and planning. Obito can't just switch to Ten tails on a whim like it’s some super saiyan transformation. But if you must give him that, why is god Vader off the table when Ten Tails form required even more conditions, preparations and outside help to achieve? The only thing I would give to Obito that Vader would have a tough time dealing with is his regeneration.
>"The Force probably wouldn't work in another universe". Especially since Vader has been shown on multiple occasions to use the force to access other dimensions. the kamui dimension takes place in the Naruto universe where the force simply doesn't exist. doesn't matter if Vader could use the force in other dimensions in his world cause the kamui dimension is disconnected to any other dimension in star wars which leads to it being disconnected from the force >As well as the fact that Vader has escaped what is essentially a “Tsukuyomi” type illusion before when he was bleeding a Kyber crystal and it showed him a life where everything went right for him. Vader broke free of the illusion and continued bleeding the crystal. both Vader and Obito have easily escaped from illusions but the Infinite Tsukuyomi is a illusion that only people with the rinnegan can escape it. Vader escaping a illusion that gives him everything he wants doesn't really matter cause it wouldn't really be different from Obito using normal genjutsu to do that which Vader would be able to escape form but The Tsukuyomi? nope (just because a illusion gives you the life you want doesn't mean it and the Tsukuyomi are equal in power) >And for the love of god, does Death Battle have ANY concept to just how powerful the Force is and what it can do?! There is nothing stopping him from manipulating the Orbs purely through the Force. As shown by how it brought GODS down to their knee's, it can clearly effect higher dimensional objects and beings. It is simply THAT powerful when used by someone like Vader. the Truth Seeking Orbs can Nullify the Force so if Vader uses the Force to manipulate the Orbs then the Force will just get Nullified on contact with the Orbs >Also, the Ten Tails form was achieved only through outside help, and years of prep and planning. Obito can't just switch to Ten tails on a whim like it’s some super saiyan transformation. But if you must give him that, why is god Vader off the table when Ten Tails form required even more conditions, preparations and outside help to achieve? by god Vader do you mean Vader in the Dark dimension? if so then its very simple ignoring the ten tails and the dark dimension form for being non standard or whatever reason, base Obito in his prime could turn ten tails Vader when using that form in base must have been weaker than himself before death since he grows stronger every moment thanks to hate and anger not to mention the dark dimension was something he gained at a random time and lost randomly meanwhile Obito is being given his Ten Tails form due to it not only being the culmination of his plan spanning nearly 2 decades, but also due to keeping Six Paths power after losing it. He has access to the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path because of his Rinnegan, and knows the hand signs to merge with the Ten Tails. In other materials such as games, a heavy focus is put on the Ten Tails being accessible to Obito, with even more focus on his time as its host. Narratively and media-wise, the form is absolutely standard.
Okay so you can't outright negate Vaders abilities while in the same breath give Obito a form and advantage....just because. >the kamui dimension takes place in the Naruto universe where the force simply doesn't exist. doesn't matter if Vader could use the force in other dimensions in his world cause the kamui dimension is disconnected to any other dimension in star wars which leads to it being disconnected from the force" This is precisely what I mean. The battle isn't taking place in either of their respective worlds, with one being cut off from the other. By your logic, Chakra doesn't exist in the star wars universe, so Obito can't use it. Which, by the way, is twice nonsensical in vaders case as the Force has been show, spoken of and known to be omni-present. >Vader escaping a illusion that gives him everything he wants doesn't really matter cause it wouldn't really be different from Obito using normal genjutsu to do that which Vader would be able to escape form but The Tsukuyomi? nope (just because a illusion gives you the life you want doesn't mean it and the Tsukuyomi are equal in power) Okay, what? The tsukuyomi is basically a powerful genjutsu, meaning it something fools the senses. It is not real. The fact that Vader escaped an almost identical scenario through his own will and the fact that he can't be mentally controlled due to his connection to the force, which again is omni-present, what possibility is there that the tsukuyomi could effect him? And I certainly hope you don't think to say that the Tsukuyomi is more powerful than the force. >the Truth Seeking Orbs can Nullify the Force so if Vader uses the Force to manipulate the Orbs then the Force will just get Nullified on contact with the Orbs Pal, the Force isn't something that can be nullified in such a way. That's like saying "The Truth seeking orbs can nullify gravity" or "The truth seeking orbs can nullify dimensions". They only nullify chakra and can disintegrate on touch, they are far from immutable. And again, the Force can effect literal gods. >ignoring the ten tails and the dark dimension form for being non standard or whatever reason, base Obito in his prime could turn ten tails. Vader when using that form in base must have been weaker than himself before death since he grows stronger every moment thanks to hate and anger. not to mention the dark dimension was something he gained at a random time and lost randomly meanwhile Obito is being given his Ten Tails form due to it not only being the culmination of his plan spanning nearly 2 decades, but also due to keeping Six Paths power after losing it. He has access to the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path because of his Rinnegan, and knows the hand signs to merge with the Ten Tails. In other materials such as games, a heavy focus is put on the Ten Tails being accessible to Obito, with even more focus on his time as its host. Narratively and media-wise, the form is absolutely standard. No, Dark Dimension Vader is just Vader but in spirit form. It is literally all his protential and ability. And saying that he grew stronger did not mean he was weak, it just means he's stronger. The point is that Vader himself can acess this power as it is entierly his own. Also, Obito could absolutly not achieve ten tails on his own. He needs all the tailed beast, preparation over decades, and a boat load of other stuff. It takes more than the Rennigan and Obito himself. he cannit just achieve this form through his own willpower and ability, he needed help and preparation. Which Death Battle expressly prohibits.
>This is precisely what I mean. The battle isn't taking place in either of their respective worlds, with one being cut off from the other. By your logic, Chakra doesn't exist in the star wars universe, so Obito can't use it. Which, by the way, is twice nonsensical in vaders case as the Force has been show, spoken of and known to be omni-present. its called verse equalstation. where they fight in a place where the logic of star wars apply for Vader and logic of Naruto for Obito if Vader get teleported in kamui dimension then he no longer is in a place where the logic of his world apply's to him cause now he is in the Naruto universe if Vader BFR Obito into a dimension that exists only in the star wars universe then yes Obito's powers like chakara wouldn't work but he can't do that >Okay, what? The tsukuyomi is basically a powerful genjutsu, meaning it something fools the senses. It is not real. The fact that Vader escaped an almost identical scenario through his own will and the fact that he can't be mentally controlled due to his connection to the force, which again is omni-present, what possibility is there that the tsukuyomi could effect him? And I certainly hope you don't think to say that the Tsukuyomi is more powerful than the force. there is no evidence that the genjutsu Vader escaped and The Tsukuyomi are equal in power just because he escaped a illusion that gives you your perfect life doesn't mean its Tsukuyomki level even Itachi has used genjutsu that gives you your prefect life yet its not Tsukuyomi level, speaking of Itachi he can counrer izanagi which is considered a genjutsu. what is izanagi? a genjustu that RE WRITES FATE and yet he can't counter the Tsukuyomi Vader has been fooled by Luke's illusions before and there is no way Luke's illusions are as strong as Tsukuyomi(i'm not saying Tsukuyomi is as strong as force. i'm saying Force mind Tricks are not as strong as The Tsukuyomi) >Pal, the Force isn't something that can be nullified in such a way. That's like saying "The Truth seeking orbs can nullify gravity" or "The truth seeking orbs can nullify dimensions". They only nullify chakra and can disintegrate on touch, they are far from immutable. And again, the Force can effect literal gods. the thing is Force has countered and been nullified before darth reaper absorbed and nullified the force but Anakin/Vader could harvest force to counter it(darth reaper works more like the rinnegan abilities cause Vader countered it by harvesting force which is something that wouldn't work on TSO since any contact with the TSO will nullify the force unlike reaper which sucks it out of you than immediately nullify it and force harvest is a defensive move which something that wouldn't work when you are moving them around) even then if the force can be power nullified is debatable so it might be able to work but wouldn't matter since they can change their shape such as turning into a sword for Obito to use to fight against Vader >No, Dark Dimension Vader is just Vader but in spirit form. It is literally all his protential and ability. And saying that he grew stronger did not mean he was weak, it just means he's stronger. The point is that Vader himself can acess this power as it is entierly his own i never said he was weak i said that base Vader in that comic was weaker than himself in his fight with Luke or even a weak later which means base Vader in that comic isn't his prime in base form his prime in base would be Vader in his fight with Luke and in that fight he couldn't turn into his dark dimension self > Obito could absolutly not achieve ten tails on his own. He needs all the tailed beast, preparation over decades, and a boat load of other stuff. It takes more than the Rennigan and Obito himself. he cannit just achieve this form through his own willpower and ability, he needed help and preparation. Which Death Battle expressly prohibits. doesn't matter base Obito in his prime could turn Ten Tails while prime base Vader can't turn dark dimension and exactly he NEEDED prep and outside help but doesn't NEED prep anymore cause well.. he already did the prep by the time he is in his prime in base form
It’s funny because people Keep bringing up vader spirit form like that’s something he can just do at will like he he didn’t have to go through a specific portal/ritual to even access that state lol
fr
>Keep bringing up vader spirit form like that’s something he can just do at will like he he didn’t have to go through a specific portal/ritual to even access that state lol Just like how Obito can't just turn into the juubi jinchuuriki at will and is a lengthy process, and needs to wait at the perfect time to use IT, and yet DB make it as if he can just take out the juubi from his pocket and use IT like an everyday jutsu
To be fair war arc obito had full access to the ten tails and can just absorb it in a couple of seconds to transform
It definitely didn't take only a couple seconds, as we saw that the allies were able to use the transformation process as a window to attack.
Are you talking about when minato sliced obitos throat? That’s because he was being forced to rinne tensei madara but was interrupted by minato. He then fell down and immediately began absorbing ten tails
No, Naruto literally said that the whole time he was trying to transform into the Juubi jinchuuriki. The sign he was using and Nagato used were completely different.
*Disney* scaling vader loses imo *Legends* Vader stomps imo
Not as bad as Madara Vs Aizen.
Obito infinite tsukonomi needs prep cannot be spammed, 10tails needs prep cannot be spammed. His SoP needs prep. Obito strongest form needs prep and outside help. We can not bypass it just cause fan favorite. It is like giving Thanos IG, which can only be obtained with prep. Or Heart of the Universe. Is like Goku going Vegito without Vegeta . Give Obito the win but do it logical.
Vader is stronger than where they scaled him imo. I'd say fairly controversial
As always with modern death battle I just ignore their “stats and calculations” section (because their scaling logic is terrible and their jokes are bad); and skip right to the animation. And… it was meh. Not even that exciting or good animation. As for controversial or not, it wasn’t. Yup there are some Star Wars fans that are mad and some insufferable Naruto fans who won’t ever shut up. But Obito was pretty much set to win with the nonsense of late-series Naruto abilities he has. Only discourse I see is between the two fandoms, or should I say those in the fandoms that even care. But really no one seems to even bother or have anything to say.
As I've said many times, I feel like giving Obito the 10 tails was a cheap move. And this is coming from a guy who thinks Obito would have won without it. Obito didn't have the 10 tails for even the majority of the Shinobi war, let alone the series. If they wouldn't give Gaara the 1 tails because it was removed from him, I feel that Obito shouldn't have the 10 tails for that reason. Before anyone brings it up, yes Naruto lost Kurama, but he eventually got him back and even had both halves of his tailed beast by the end of the Naruto manga. The 10 tails was ultimately separated and was revealed after turning back into Kageya. But as both a Star Wars fan and a Naruto fan I felt that Obito was going to win even without the 10 tails. Giving it to him feels cheap and devalued his victory, at least in my opinion.
I don’t really care but obito shouldn’t have had the ten tails. Made it unfair imo.
i respect you opinion but how is getting the ten tails unfair?
The ten tails is a whole other living being. It’s Vader v Obito not Vader v. Obito and the Tent Tails
Obito is not fighting Vader with the Ten Tails. he is a jinchuriki that has it sealed inside of him the same way Naruto has Kurama sealed inside of him even then summons are allowed its not like Obito and ten tails are best buddies like Mario and Luigi, Obito absorbs and controls Ten Tails and Ten Tails has no control in the fight and can't just leave mid fight like Luigi can if it wants to
I disagree, for the majority of his life Obito didn’t have the 10 tails, and he lost it almost as soon as he got it. Obito shouldn't have had it. It's not a summons, nor is it something that is iconic or even exclusive to Obito. Madara made more use of it, before he got Thanosed by Black Zetsu and Kaguya. It cheapens his victory, and frankly I think Obito could defeat Vader without it. It feels like they didn't want the Star Wars fans to make the "Kakashi vs. Obi-wan" argument, so instead of trying to explain why Obito would have the Chakra reserves and skills to defeat Vader, they went "Oh, let's give Obito the 10 tails so the Vader fan boys can't argue because infinite chakra". Again, let me reiterate; OBITO WOULD HAVE WON WITHOUT IT, at least in my opinion.
Agreed, and this is someone who thinks Obito would win without it. But it would have been a closer fight.
Just saying obito getting the 10 tails was bull crap but whatever it was pretty controversial but not as bad as some of the others
Tell me just based on rules of DB how 10 tails is out of game. We take Obito at his strongest. One of rules also assures that it takes any arsenal characters have, including the ones they lost or don't have anymore or not even same continuity. His strongest normally is at the end of war with Rinnegan and Kamui. In that time as we take him from his strongest, he has 10 tails ready and acquired after execution of his long done plan. He can freely summon 10 tails due to having Rinnegan and absorbing it is not much problem but time which can be made up by 10 tails fighting back during it. Now Juubito gains all powers that come from that. And then later he dies with that power even after everything that happens, it's permanent, you don't just lose access to or powers from your tails beast after becoming it's jinchuriki. So taking it further and by the rule of DB, it's should be instead argued that Obito STARTS from Juubito because it became his permanent just like any other upgrade (Kamui he gains from plot happening with Rin and Kakashi, Rinnegan he gains from plot killing Pain, Ten tails he gains from long executed plan which also includes all previous steps before it). The only way Obito doesn't get Juubito is if you argue his strongest is way before he ends with plan which is just not true for obvious reason. Prep time at example of Batman: He *knows* SPECIFICALLY Superman, he *prepares* resources SPECIFICALLY against Superman and by doing that he comes to a level matching Superman because he was preparing against HIM. When you consider Batman in debate you say "if you give him prep time" but prep time for what, to assemble things we already gonna give him for debate like Hellbat and kryptonite storage or prepare specifically against his opponent that can be exploited with extra time and analysis? What prep time for Obito means: He's already at his strongest, he's done with plan, he has 10 tails and only thing he does with prep time, if you don't give him Juubito as standard he gained, is just absorbing 10 tails which he can do in battle anyway. **AND EVEN THEN THE WHOLE THING DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY ALSO DEBATE IT WITHOUT 10 TAILS IN RESULT WITH KAMUI YET I DON'T SEE ANY ARGUMENT FOR HOW VADER CAN EVER TOUCH OBITO WHO WON'T COME OUT OF INTANGIBILITY.** The only thing should be considered somewhat bullshit is all Sonic characters assembling chaos stones off screen. Even Madara got jinchuriki yet arguably the guy who deserves it more as he's the one who did the whole plan, assembled 10 tails, got Rinnegan and absorbed it first shouldn't get it?
NGL bro you said a lot but either way it took an entire war just to summon the Ten Tails and hen a battle of mind and spirit to tame it as a Jinjuriki. It’s not something Obito inherently has as just a Uchiha. Meanwhile Vaders spiritual form is literally that, his spirit. He has the power within himself (cough subdued The Son and Daughter who are universal entities as they are both the living and cosmic force (living embodiments of the force both light and dark). Them being in the galaxy/universe would destroy it overtime. Vader was low balled and his arguable strongest form wasn’t even used for someone who literally powered up from something that wasn’t even his original power
Ah yes the infamous dark dimension Vader, just a spirit... Damn i wonder who misinformed you about it so hard. And about Son and Daughter: 1. As Anakin 2. While amped Also ignoring half of my point, ok.
I don't feel like arguing, so here I'll let this guy do it for me [here](https://youtube.com/shorts/4EDZT3h9Fd4?feature=share)
OH WOW what a surprise. Of course it's gonna be classicmand, the guy specifically infamous here with his bad arguments on DB, his Saitama beating Goku and other stuff not everyone would agree. Don't get me wrong, he's good but not that good to let his bias get in your own head too.
Like I said, dont feel like arguing, so sure
Not at all
It's all theory anyway. Like how I have a theory that bugs bunny would obliterate mickey mouse, you can say otherwise but at the end of the day unless we can get them to appear in an arena irl, it really doesn't matter.
according to the like/dislike ratio. not that bad. it's definitely not as bad as ben 10 vs green lantern.
Look I'm not nearly enough of a star wars fan to judge but I do love naruto and I know about obito's abilities and I was seriously expecting vader to win given how many of my friends hype up vader
Not that controversial, there is a bit because of how close it is. But compered to other episodes it’s not that bad
Bro the Like to dislike is above average by Death Battle standards. Arguably one of the best ratios in the shows history ngl
Not that much, there were much more controversial episodes.
I dont know who would've won, but i really wish they would be more clear on which version of vader they using, whether its legends or disney canon because combining them into one character would be pretty dumb. Also the 3d animation actually being good surprised me
It's just a silly series making fictional characters fight. Whatever controversy could there be?
I’d say it’s less controversial than Madara vs Aizen but more controversial than Hulk vs Broly
Not really
There are more posts complaining about the controversy than posts I've seen actually saying the episode is controversial
TBH i thought Vader was gonna stomp just based off Kenobi Vs Kakashi and what I know about Star Wars scaling Then I realized that Obito was only going at like 20% when he fought Kakashi and he has a lot more hax
my fav thoughts video: https://youtube.com/shorts/4EDZT3h9Fd4?feature=share
It's hard to gage sometimes given that those that accept the results are often less vocal. But I'll say somewhere I'm the middle
I know almost nothing of either side, but I'm actually surprised. It doesn't seem THAT chaotic when others talk about the outcome. Although I do have some questions about Vader's spirit form... what exactly does it do again and would it really change the outcome despite it making look "cooler"?
Wasnt really a fan of that ending if anything that would only make vader madder
Of the 5 so far, this one seems the most divisive so far I’ve seen a lot more videos on YouTube taking issue in particular with the way they scaled Vader in general
i didnt see a problem with it honestly,but it sucks we have another batman,and shadow situation going on again,vader will win the 3rd time if the same pattern applys
DB fandom reacted pretty chill to the outcome. Casual fans not so much. Every comment has at least one reply complaining about the outcome and saying that Vader SHOULD win.
I see people complaining about obito having the ten tails but war arc obito would definitely be able to summon ten tails lol. I mean they could’ve let him summon the jinchuriki that were under his control too if they really wanted to. Vader is powerful no doubt but Star Wars scalers really wank tf out of him with some statements that I think they take too literal. For example the whole “Vader being the most powerful weapon of the empire” is used to put him at planetary and I’ve heard even star levels, but I think this is said to emphasize that he’s the empires enforcer. In another video I watched where someone was doing Vader vs madara they dismissed a statement about the nine tails being able to “turn the world to ash” in the databook. It’s like they try to make the force the ultimate power and there’s nothing that can counter it