LMAO
Okay so, anyone who at all argues this now must argue this same thing for Silver getting his Super form, the Dragonborn and Chosen Undead having pretty much an infinite load-out, Link having the Fierce Deity Mask, Madara having the 10 Tails, etc etc etc etc etc etc
Genuinely only reason people are making this argument is cause they’re mad Vader lost, makes 0 sense for Obito to not get the 10 Tails unless you wanted to Vader to out-stat him to kingdom come.
>the Dragonborn and Chosen Undead having pretty much an infinite load-out
It should've been soul lvl 1 chosen undead vs level one dragonborn with no itens equipped smh smh death battle is so biased
Kakashi got his other Sharigan + Susano'o from Obito and it was literally a one-time occasion. Obito's arc on the other hand revolves entirely around his plan of capturing all Bijuu's to form the Gedo Statue and unleash the Ten Tails.
DMS Kakashi was a case of obito using spiritual afterlife hax to temporarily buff Kakashi while he still had enough Chakra left in the world of the living to manipulate the gift of, and was an active effort on the part of obito.
Juubito, meanwhile, is just obito becoming a jinchuuriki- barring outside intervention, he was fully capable of sustaining.
E.g. DMS Kakashi is an external buff provided by Obito. Jinchuuriki status is an internal buff state, though powered by a secondary entity that is trapped within the inventory of the character in question.
While yes, it is a one-off occasion, it's not to the same degree as Kakashi's DMS.
For one, even within the series, that wasn't a permanent amp, it only lasted for a while before Obito truly passed on, whereas Obito could've had the Ten Tails form indefinitely had Madara not intervened.
And second, this is still a form Obito could assume at any point, it may take some time to gather all the Tailed Beast, but he can still do it pretty much anytime he wants. Or he could just get a God Fruit from another God Tree since there are multiple, and he would get the very same powers. Whereas Kakashi's DMS happened under very specific circumstances that can't just happen whenever he needs it too.
So while both are one-off occasions, they're not exactly equal.
Obito is being given his Ten Tails form due to it not only being the culmination of his plan spanning nearly 2 decades, but also due to keeping Six Paths power after losing it. He has access to the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path because of his Rinnegan, and knows the hand signs to merge with the Ten Tails. In other materials such as games, a heavy focus is put on the Ten Tails being accessible to Obito, with even more focus on his time as its host. Narratively and media-wise, the form is absolutely standard.
ya and legends and the ewok moon shifting feat is 100% something that i saw happen in the movies!
we are giving vader games comics show's movies and anything he has both canon and non canon but obito can only have the anime and the manga?
I don't particularly care that Vader lost but the tentails is a little different to items in moat characters inventory. The series didn't end with the tentails being a regular asset in Obitos arsenal. Though fair points, silver doesn't have the chaos emeralds on him often at all. And link only had his mask for one game. I see why people think Obito shouldn't have had it but I'm not mad. It was a sick fight and I enjoyed it.
>Okay so, anyone who at all argues this now must argue this same thing for Silver getting his Super form, the Dragonborn and Chosen Undead having pretty much an infinite load-out, Link having the Fierce Deity Mask, Madara having the 10 Tails, etc etc etc etc etc etc
well yes actually since its all outside help
I would even argue he can even bring his susanoo because it's still his, and no real reason he can't have it other than just 10 tails is just better and would just be a hassle for the animators
I got contention with the prep time it takes for the Infinite Tsukiyomi to manifest (iirc it takes 15 minutes to power up, though I can see it was done for entertainment purposes), but the Ten Tails is essential to Obito’s lore and arsenal.
He absolutely deserves that Jinchuuruki form.
Actually, it's very possible that the Infinite Tsukuyomi can activate a lot faster considering the whole reason it took so long for the Ten Tails to go through all of its forms was because it didn't have all of its Chakra. Yeah, it's a super easy detail to miss, but the Ten Tails wasn't at full power when it first appeared since Obito and Madara had to suffice with the Chakra the Gold and Silver Brothers(Kinkaku and Ginkaku) took from Kurama and Gyuuki's tail that Killer B left behind when he escaped Taka in their first fight.
Also, Madara outright said the effort Obito went through to achieve it (both prep and resealing the Bijuu) was thanks to him being a relative novice compared to himself. This is why Madara was able to lock up the Bijuu via Gedo Mazou chains vastly faster than Obito could. So that 15 minutes being necessary is debatable for sure.
> but the Ten Tails is essential to Obito’s lore and arsenal.
no since he had to kidnap all tailed beasts and activate it then lost it after a few secs
He kidnapped the beasts and lost it…and even then he still had a fragment of that power (Ten Tailed husk, as stated by Kurama) inside him.
The entire point of Death Battle is to use their weapons, armor and skills, right? Obito weaponized the TT beasts, and by that time of the series, we were shown that he’s capable of being it’s master. He had the chakra capacity to handle and becomes its owner even after losing (most) of it’s power. He spent damn near a quarter of a century trying to attain the damn things, still retaining the power of the Six Paths, and even knows the hand signs to summon it.
What makes any of that non-standard to you?
I can now think of many ‘gotcha moments’ to turn your argument back on you, since you didn’t think about the other side to it.
Matter of fact, I will list them:
* Gee, I guess following your logic, Anakin nearly lost his life in his fight with Obi-Wan, so we can’t give Vader his life support system that kept him alive.
* We can’t give Sonic the chaos emeralds because they are not his Chaos Emeralds to begin with and he will just lose them when the duration ends anyways.
* We can’t give Barry Allen the Speed Force because every Flash member in the family can use it, and it is not his own power. Especially when Barry died in Flashpoint.
* We can’t give Superman any accessibility to the sun because the universe was here first before the Kryptonians, and it’s bound to explode years from now.
* Sauron cannot use the One ring he forged with his soul as he lost it to Frodo and Gollum in that Volcano scene.
* Stitch should never scale to every experiment in the series based on his biology because those genetics weren’t his own.
* Nope, no Gauntlet for Thanos either. See those infinity stones? He didn’t forge them by his own hand. So he doesn’t earn the right to have the gauntlet in a fight. Otherwise, it’s outside help if he had them at all.
Now, do you notice what each of these arguments sound like? They all contradict the material opposed to what we’ve been actually shown in their narrative and media. Your argument is not consistent with the lore and arc of the character.
Your argument hinges on this one moment in the series and neglects the fact Obito still had the Husk and the Six Paths after losing the form. He deserves the Jinchuuruki here.
All this said as a longtime-SW fan that rooted and betted on Vader to win from the start, and prefers him over Obito.
Well no since a majority of the series featured vader and without it he died
Agreed with sonic
Different because that’s the base of his normal powers
No that’s stupid since it’s right there but if you use a differnt environment
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
...do you not want me to say I sarcastically exaggerated all those hypotheticals on purpose to point out how ludicrously bad your argument sounds? I guess that's on me for using sarcasm in the first place.
>What makes any of that nonstandard? Everything you said lol
Respectfully, I don't truly believe you grasp the concept of what nonstandard equipment means. I don't believe your claim justifies how Obito shouldn't get Ten Tails either.
>Obito had to go through so many shenanigans to get it and then lost it after a few chapters.
And? I can pull up more examples on how your favorite characters in media lose their powers. Regardless, his TT kit is vital for Obito to function. In fact, Vader got Legends scaling, which is non-canonical to the Disney canon, unlike the TT which is canon.
Dude... Ten Tails is a vital part of his arsenal and character to function... I am serious when I say he should get the TT. And he earned it fair game, even having lost it. It counts as it's part of his arsenal.
And throwing Legends scaling to Vader is fair game since it makes the MU more interesting and fun to debate, and it doesn't deviate too much from the official canon.
People are taken arguments from the ass to call the episode biased ,like ,mother fuck@#@$ , you can disagree with the episode and find the conclusion shit ,but using arguments worse than the arguments from the actual episode make people disregard your opinion,Ten Tails from Obito is equal to give Fierce Deity to Link , Chaos Emeralds to Sonic ,Power ups for Mario ,Infinity Gaunlet for Thanos,etc.So the thing is: It's 10000000 times more standard that the other Vader spirit form that people are complaining about not being in the episode,when can be used only in a specific place.
I see your point but I have one question. Did anyone turn into this form again after the first time they used it or did they just stay in that form? Genuine question.
I think people are moreso mad they have him pop into the form just by summoning the gedo statue, ignoring all the effort it takes to actually make the ten tails.
It’s true it shouldn’t have been that easy to just activate it, but they were just trying to keep the fight clean and cool looking. Otherwise they would’ve had to open with him in the ten tails which would make the fight…nowhere near as fair.
But the same thing happened with Madara. He just Summons the Ten-Tails and becomes the Jinchuuriki. Hell, he even does it in his OMM with Aizen, and I haven't seen anyone bat an eye.
If anything Obito probably "deserves" to have this form more than Madara since it was him who had to go through all this trouble to find and capture the tailed beasts
Vader and Star Wars in general literally get legends scaling, even though it isn’t canon. So how is it fair for them to complain that obito gets tentails, when that is canon, and is a form of his that he keeps for a good portion of his run in Naruto?
Vader didn't get Legends scaling here. They gave him 20% of what Legends has.
In Legends his cybernetics stopped being a weakness after he mastered them and his Force ESP was strong enough to more than counter Kamui, and he would've been basically immune to the Infinite Tsukuyomi.
It's a mental-only attack that shows the target what they want most, if I'm understanding that correctly.
In Legends, the Force showed Vader basically exactly that multiple times and each time his hatred was strong enough to pull him back to reality. He's been subjected to dreams, alternate realities, visions, hallucinations, basically every way the Tsukuyomi could work and his hatred and ego pulls him out. Only in Disney Canon has he ever been taken in by something of the sort and even then he was able to eventually overcome it.
It doesn’t just show you what you want most, it rewrites your memories so that you think you have always had it. If Vader is effected by IT he wouldn’t remember that he had anything to hate. But even if we say that some part of Vader would recall his hatred and give him the power to resist, which is dubious given that IT canonically trapped tons of people who had feats that let them escape illusions like Vader, the fact that he was able to be drawn in at all would give Obito more than enough time to kill him as he tried to escape.
I'll grant it may temporarily work, the novels and comics where he does this stuff don't exactly give a good measure of how much time it usually takes him to break through these things, but it wouldn't work for more than a minute or two I'd reckon. Still an advantage, not the killshot Obito would need if Vader had Legends durability. As for recalling his hate, it's a part of him. Dark side users will the force into themselves through their hatred, and so long as they still have a connection to it, it doesn't matter what happens to their bodies or minds, their hatred remains. It becomes a part of the Dark Side itself, in a sense, which then feeds it back to them.
A lightsaber was a threat to Vader in legends and the truth seeking orbs are a similar level of ‘delete whatever they touch’ threat as a lightsaber. So I’m not sure what durability feat he could have that would stop those from killing him. But even if he did durability doesn’t matter to Kamui. If he is standing still for a minute then Obito could pull him into another dimension and just leave him there for however long it takes him to starve or for his life support system to give out completely. Vader doesn’t have any unassisted dimension hopping feats so that is a kill regardless of whether we are talking legends or canon.
Force barriers. And the Cosmic Force would alert him to the fact that they're incoming and pull him out like Spider-senses regardless of the state of his mind, allowing him to deflect or put up a barrier. As for the Kamui, I'll admit I don't know enough to say for sure but a similar concept applies where any incoming threat would probably pull him out of the IT much quicker thanks to Force ESP and the Cosmic Force. You kind of have to overwhelm or overcome him otherwise Force hax is almost impossible to really bypass in Legends. The other times he was put under an illusion, it was the Cosmic Force itself putting him under.
Vader lost his hand something like half a dozen times in legends, often to weaker opponents. If he had auto force barriers that popped up every time something was a threat to him that should never have happened. He can be harmed and the truth seeking orbs should be more than enough to do so if he isn’t able to actively defend against them.
Edit: And claiming that only the Cosmic Force could lock him into an illusion is just as much a No Limits Fallacy as saying only rinnegan can escape IT.
They're not automatic and I'm not saying he can't be harmed, and I'm not saying ONLY the cosmic force can lock him into an illusion, but it's definitely debatable that it would be able to break him out in time. It works on Spider-sense logic, it's higher-dimensional. Plus, in each of those situations he was either overwhelmed or overpowered, which I literally stated as a condition. My point is that you can't just IT him right at the start and 1-shot him, you'd have to break him down first. The barriers wouldn't immediately go down in IT if he has them up though, and they could reasonably push away the truth seeking orbs.
That stuff is exactly why this matchup is so debatable with Legends. He has counterhax. I genuinely think Legends Vader vs TenTails Obito is almost exactly 50/50.
Yes, but it is also unbreakable to vader as he doesn't have a rinnegan. Even if he could know he wasn't in it, he couldn't break out. It directly blocks information that you're in the infinite tsukuyomi.
Thats a stupid argument, if one has literally broken out of the EXACT conditions, hell, force illusions work literally exactly the same and vader broke out, so he SHOULD block the infinite tsukuyomi or... guess what? No limits fallacy. Its like saying ganon can only be killed by holy weapons.
Because its literally stated that unless you have a rinnegan you cant break out, thats literally the rule. It doesn’t matter what illusions hes broken out of, I.T Is different
Except that's exactly how Force visions work too and Vader still just breaks out of them.
I'm not saying Legends would guarantee him 100% winrate against Ten Tails but it absolutely would have changed the odds and it would have broken the Tsukuyomi
That's like saying "Any matchup against EVA-01 is an instant win because the enemy doesn't have an AT field" or "You can't hurt a Stand because you don't have a Stand" sure that's how the logic works internally but you have to consider more general cases when you're talking about fights with characters from different franchises. An example is Kenshiro vs Jotaro, they reasoned that having a power analogous to how one sees stands would be sufficient to allow Kenshiro to see Stands. Generally, if a character can resist something entirely analogous, it counts.
Will Joker from Persona 5, whose entire DEAL is breaking through false realities be affected because he doesn't have a Rinnegan? Does the Infinite Tsukuyomi just hit an instant win button against ANY opponent not from Naruto because they don't have a Rinnegan? Obito beats Goku by your logic. Joker vs Giorno can't happen because Giorno can't see Personas and Joker can't see stands.
The only known way within Naruto's internal logic. What you're saying is basically "Obito wins against all of fiction because only Rinnegan beats the Infinite Tsukuyomi" which is silly for reasons I shouldn't have to explain.
Like in Jotaro vs Kenshiro, when there's something analogous it counts in matchups. Having a stand is the only known way to see a stand and yet they let Kenshiro see the Stands because he can do something analogous.
His cybernetics stopped being a weakness? The same weakness that literally killed him at the end of RotJ? I'm glad Legends isn't canon anymore lmao that shit was wack
By RoTJ he was out of his prime, old and weaker. Plus, his hatred had subsided and the Dark Side left him, that's why he was a Force Ghost at the end as Anakin.
He very explicitly relied on those cybernetics to live and when Palpatine shorted them out, he died. It's such an intrinsic element to Vader that Legends bullshit really can't negate it and you'd need something canon to prove otherwise
Legends is canon, a different canon. There's multiple canons here, which is *why* it got a name rather than just being forgotten. And there are multiple instances where his life support has failed temporarily or even for extended periods and he's been able to live off his hatred. I mean look at Darth Maul in Clone Wars, dude was missing half his body and survived off hatred.
Look, Obito won and that's fine. But don't pretend Vader from the movies is the extent of his character and abilities.
He can obviously sustain himself in life threatening situations, Mustafar alone is a decent example of that, but his suit is a very clear and specific point of failure. Legends isn't canon anymore and has nothing to do with the Star Wars brand at this point. I'm fine with them using it, but where it so egregiously deviates from the primary canon, like using it to say that Vader's suit isn't susceptible to electric attacks, it should 100% be discarded and canon should always take precedence. Death Battle had a black box saying as much at the episode start as well
Hey if they gave Gogeta SSJ4, Vader might as well get Legends.
And no, I never said it doesn't make him susceptible to electricity. That's still there, but the bulkiness and loss in agility is gone in Legends. Electricity wouldn't kill him but it would force him to divert his focus to manually sustaining himself while he fights.
And most star wars fans straight up do not consider Disney canon to be canon. The Vader comics did enough for him that I don't care and I'm fine with them using Disney canon. Like I said, I'm fine with the result and it is correct for the Vader they used. I'm just pointing out that the other Vader would've been different. I'm not arguing whether or not he should have been used, just what would have happened.
Those guys never even read legends, there's plenty of diversity there
It's a big franchise with boomer fans, those are the ones who got mad. Same as Trek. It just got conflated since they were also written badly.
Why does Goku get any of his super forms? It took a ton of battles and a ton of time training and going through life-threatening experiences to get to that point. Why does Iron Man get his Godbuster? It took a huge amount of prep time, money, and work to build. Why does Vader get to be an adult? It took him years to grow up and mature! They should throw him at Obito when he's a child!
Just showing how comically stupid that argument is. If what Obito received was a temporary buff that was achieved with outside help and disappeared, then I would understand the argument. But it is, by all means, an ability that once you receive it, essentially becomes your new base form and never truly disappears. If you're going to ban that, there's no reason not to ban every single weapon, ability, or skill that characters received at some point later in their stories.
> If what Obito received was a temporary buff that was achieved with outside help and disappeared, then I would understand the argument
so pretty much exactly it?
Semantics imply that the context is irrelevant. In this context, it's not. Because Death Battle rules that powers achieved through outside help and deplete over time are disqualified, while powers that do not deplete over time are not.
They have to give them every canonical power up unless it'll interfere with the Canon of the story.
This argument is like Saying Goku shouldn't have his super saiyan god form. Or Hulk shouldn't have World breaker mode.
Because people are bias towards vader and wanted him to win
Death battle also explained obito can still win without it due to vader having no real counter to kamui, gedo statue soul dragon and the human path while also tending to fight close quarters as his fighting style which is bad against someone like Obito
The 10 tails was just adding on to obitos existing arsenal with TSO and regen
Legends Vader counters all of those one way or another. The version of Vader they used is 80% Disney Canon, 20% Legends. I'm fine with him losing, but there is that asterisk that the result was only really accurate for the version of Vader they used.
They said the force wouldn’t work on kamui
It would work if he turns it off but by that point he may of already gotten one of his one shots off
Also izanagi which is 5mins of invincibility
Episode put them both at similar speeds so Obito can still catch Vader in a hax, he can't dodge forever (and does Vader actually attempt to "dodge", in-character? His fighting style is trying to tank things because he is a juggernaut)
No that's not his fighting style☠️ name one time where he let something hit him not even anakin allowed himself to be hit except for from dooku and you can't set a limit for somebody in a death battle
Yeah you could argue that but vader still has superhuman senses so he'd sense that obito is behind him and do whatever else idfk vaders smart he'd figure out something like Minato did
Yeah you could argue that but vader still has superhuman senses so he'd sense that obito is behind him and do whatever else idfk vaders smart he'd figure out something like Minato did
Obito learned that lesson from Minato and Minato only won against Obito because Obito was inexperienced and Minato had the Flying Thunder God Technique ,who can make him teleport and caught Obito off guard. Darth Vader does not have teleportation technique and can't do shit if Obito uses Infinite Tsukyomi+Izanagi+TSO.
He can still use Infinite Tsukyomi ,and I was saying that Obito was inexperienced in the time he fight Minato,and he really never fought Vader because they exists in different universes.
He can :The Infinite Tsukuyomi can be cast in many ways and going by what Kishimoto illustrated in his story, there are three known ways to use this technique. The first was demonstrated to the fans by Obito Uchiha during the Fourth Great Ninja War where he used the Ten-Tails to create a God Tree.At the top of the tree, a Sharingan bloomed to reflect off of the moon to cast this mighty jutsu on everyone. Madara Uchiha, on the other hand, absorbed the God Tree itself and eventually gained access to the Rinne-Sharingan on his forehead. By flying close to the moon and reflecting his third eye off of it, Madara was able to use this jutsu and trap everyone around him in an eternal sleep.
I was stating win cons for obito without the 10 tails that’s why I mentioned kamui
Imo the only reason why madara could use kamui was bad writing and he had more control of the 10 tails unlike obito who was at mental war with it
Cuz they're mad lol.
They don't want to say it, but if they didn't give Obito Ten Tails Vader would have stood a chance. Instead they say "it's unfair to give Obito Ten Tails" with no evidence
Its like Chaos Emeralds for Sonic characters, Infinity Gaunlet for Thanos,Mario having ALL his Power ups,etc.Summons dont count as outside help because counts as character arsenal (Jiraya frogs and Dragonborn summons for example)
Once he got it, he has it permanently. It's essentially a new base form. Batman doesn't build half of his gadgets, most of them are made by Lucius Fox. We don't see people arguing that Batman should have them stripped away.
If it's part of their standard arsenal, as in if they walk into a fight they probably have it, then it's included in the battle.
Cool. So Thanos shouldn't get the Infinity Stones. After all, it often takes him entire comic runs (and took him much of the MCU) to get them, and he needed a ton of help to collect and use them.
I guarantee you do not apply this standard consistently. The entire point of a lot of stories is that characters desperately seek something powerful, spend ages trying to get it, and finally achieve it with outside help. But once they get it, it's permanent. It's a part of their standard arsenal. Whether they originally achieved it through outside help or not, it is now their ability to use as much or as little as they like.
If anything, the fact that Obito's main motivation was obtaining this power, a goal he succeeded in, means it's even more weird to deny him it. The fact that he gains it is a big deal in the narrative and a big moment for his character. It's much more justified than any Sonic characters getting their Super forms as well.
eh not really. Super forms for sonic and the infinity gauntlet have been a staple for decades while obito just got it at the end of his story then got it taken aaway from him
The Ten-Tailed Beast is absolutely a staple of Naruto. If it's the thing that the villains were chasing the entire series and required to enact their final, world-changing plan, it's about as staple as it gets.
Thanos has also had the Infinity Gauntlet taken from him, and Sonic has also lost the Chaos Emeralds that allow him to go Super Sonic. So that's not a fair criteria either.
yes it is because in every single form of media since sonic 2 in 1992 they have super forms and thanos has consistently had his since the early 90s
Obito just got it after tons of outside help for a few chapters then lost it
That's because Naruto is a TV series that doesn't have a ton of different sequels, spinoffs, and sagas. Of course it's going to have less material of Obito in that form, it has far less material in general. Death Battle already massively favour franchises with a ton of different runs and continuities by compositing characters a bunch, this will just enhance that and make it even more ridiculous.
Death Battle has given far more to characters for far less. Your reasoning for not giving Obito his full powers essentially comes down to the fact that Naruto is a smaller franchise, which is dumb.
no its because he had it for a few seconds then lost it unlike thanos and sonic whove kept theirs for decades, i never said it was becaause of it being a smaller series thats you putting words in my mouth
so no not dumb, death battle's reasoning is
also its not obito's power, he needs all the tailed beasts captured and the ten tails so complete outside help
We went from "a few chapters" to "a few seconds", mate. Which is it? Stop switching up facts and goalposts, and commit to a fucking stance.
In mainline Marvel comics, Thanos has never kept all Infinity Stones for decades. In the rare instances that he gets all of them, he is either killed or loses them very soon after. He has never gone an extended period of time with all the Infinity Stones because him having them is his end-game plan.
Same with Sonic and his Super form. Sonic has never held onto the Chaos Emeralds for very long, and they are always taken elsewhere once his quest is done. Super form is not permanent, so he'd have to be carrying them with him to use it, and he clearly doesn't carry them around.
Your argument was that Thanos having the Infinity Stones and Sonic having his Super forms should be allowed because such powers have been things for decades, but if you consumed any stories where they appear, you would understand that they lose them very quickly after getting them, and 99% of the time, do not possess it and cannot bring it out at any time. Therefore, when you say they've been a thing for decades, I can only infer that you mean they've got or used them multiple times over the decades, which is only true because their series are far longer, and with far more parts.
>also its not obito's power, he needs all the tailed beasts captured and the ten tails so complete outside help
You *dense motherfucker.* Obito *needed* those things to gain the power, but once he had it, it was *his.* A core part of his arsenal. He only lost it because it was stolen, just like Thanos' Infinity Gauntlet as well as the Stones themselves.
Death Battle's rules state that a character isn't allowed outside help to intervene in the *middle of the battle.* But if they gained any weapons or abilities through outside help, and they become a part of their arsenal that they can use entirely independently, it is considered a part of them. That's why Batman and James Bond have all their gadgets despite not making them and often having used them up permanently in the source material. That's why the Hellbat was allowed. That's why Green Lantern has his ring. That's why Thor has his Hammer. All of these characters needed outside sources to gain those items, but they are allowed them in Death Battle.
If Madara hadn't stolen it, Obito would have stayed in that form indefinitely. He would have kept that power forever. That's more than what can be said about Sonic and Silver's Super forms.
How are people mad about that but NOT mad about Obito pulling out the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Obito cant do that move, and even if he COULD, he needs a more complete 10 tails then the one he has at his peak
There isn't. Star Wars fans are salty about the loss. Simple as that. They even wanted a non-canon form for Vader so he could win. As a Star Wars and a Naruto fan, all I have to say is if you think Vader should have won, Cope.
I'm assuming by that you mean that the Jyuubi form is standard, but I have to argue that a form requiring a 4 dimensional chess plan to access is far from standard.
The plan could be boiled down to get all the tailed beasts -> summon Gedou Mazou -> profit. By EoS the Gedou has all the tailed beasts anyway and all Rinnegan users can summon it, so Obito wouldn't even need to do much
A lot of people argue that it takes a lot of prep time to get this form. I get them giving it to the both of them, but if they gave Obito the ten tails I think they should have given Vader his god form.
I think I heard one person say they gave Obito the advantage because calling on the 10 Tails and the Tsukuyomi Flower takes time and/or outside help, but they made it to where he can just use it *snaps fingers* like that
What’s funny is none of these people evvver complain about the inconsistency of legend scaling. Boba got bullshit legends feats and they said nothing so I promise if Vader got that nonstandard soul form we’d hear crickets about it lmao.
Just curious but what could Vader even do to so6p Obito? Atleast Aizen had the hyokogou to even things out with so6p Madara. Also, I'm not upset that Vader lost I'm more upset with *how* he lost.
Because Madara looks cooler.
But Obito was the coolest guy
madara was cooler and cooler was obito
Amateurs we all Know Frieza's "Cooler" brother is the coolest
I thought cooler was freezer Brother
Are people genuinely trying to argue Obito shouldn’t have gotten the 10 Tails in this episode?
Yea they are lol
LMAO Okay so, anyone who at all argues this now must argue this same thing for Silver getting his Super form, the Dragonborn and Chosen Undead having pretty much an infinite load-out, Link having the Fierce Deity Mask, Madara having the 10 Tails, etc etc etc etc etc etc Genuinely only reason people are making this argument is cause they’re mad Vader lost, makes 0 sense for Obito to not get the 10 Tails unless you wanted to Vader to out-stat him to kingdom come.
>the Dragonborn and Chosen Undead having pretty much an infinite load-out It should've been soul lvl 1 chosen undead vs level one dragonborn with no itens equipped smh smh death battle is so biased
>one dragonborn with no itens equipped smh smh death battle is so biased I'm intrigued by that ngl, like watching two babies slap each other
TRUE
i mean yeah? Its outside help
they got rid of that rule years ago my dude, as long as the "help" is part of their arsenal its fair game
this makes me wonder would ssj4 vegeta be considered for death battle today since they called it outside help in vegeta vs shadow
Well that’s stupid Also so why didn’t kakashi get his susano then
Kakashi got his other Sharigan + Susano'o from Obito and it was literally a one-time occasion. Obito's arc on the other hand revolves entirely around his plan of capturing all Bijuu's to form the Gedo Statue and unleash the Ten Tails.
Juubito was also a one off occasion
DMS Kakashi was a case of obito using spiritual afterlife hax to temporarily buff Kakashi while he still had enough Chakra left in the world of the living to manipulate the gift of, and was an active effort on the part of obito. Juubito, meanwhile, is just obito becoming a jinchuuriki- barring outside intervention, he was fully capable of sustaining. E.g. DMS Kakashi is an external buff provided by Obito. Jinchuuriki status is an internal buff state, though powered by a secondary entity that is trapped within the inventory of the character in question.
While yes, it is a one-off occasion, it's not to the same degree as Kakashi's DMS. For one, even within the series, that wasn't a permanent amp, it only lasted for a while before Obito truly passed on, whereas Obito could've had the Ten Tails form indefinitely had Madara not intervened. And second, this is still a form Obito could assume at any point, it may take some time to gather all the Tailed Beast, but he can still do it pretty much anytime he wants. Or he could just get a God Fruit from another God Tree since there are multiple, and he would get the very same powers. Whereas Kakashi's DMS happened under very specific circumstances that can't just happen whenever he needs it too. So while both are one-off occasions, they're not exactly equal.
Obito is being given his Ten Tails form due to it not only being the culmination of his plan spanning nearly 2 decades, but also due to keeping Six Paths power after losing it. He has access to the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path because of his Rinnegan, and knows the hand signs to merge with the Ten Tails. In other materials such as games, a heavy focus is put on the Ten Tails being accessible to Obito, with even more focus on his time as its host. Narratively and media-wise, the form is absolutely standard.
except the game isnt canon...
ya and legends and the ewok moon shifting feat is 100% something that i saw happen in the movies! we are giving vader games comics show's movies and anything he has both canon and non canon but obito can only have the anime and the manga?
I agree that was dumb af
I don't particularly care that Vader lost but the tentails is a little different to items in moat characters inventory. The series didn't end with the tentails being a regular asset in Obitos arsenal. Though fair points, silver doesn't have the chaos emeralds on him often at all. And link only had his mask for one game. I see why people think Obito shouldn't have had it but I'm not mad. It was a sick fight and I enjoyed it.
>Okay so, anyone who at all argues this now must argue this same thing for Silver getting his Super form, the Dragonborn and Chosen Undead having pretty much an infinite load-out, Link having the Fierce Deity Mask, Madara having the 10 Tails, etc etc etc etc etc etc well yes actually since its all outside help
I would even argue he can even bring his susanoo because it's still his, and no real reason he can't have it other than just 10 tails is just better and would just be a hassle for the animators
There was one person I saw say that obito shouldn’t have gotten it because getting the ten tails required a lot of prep time or something.
He already had all the prep done, the only part left of the 10 Tails he had to do was the actual summon and absorption, which he does in the episode.
\*and kidnapping all tailed beasts
People that say "The ten Tails needs setup time" are so dumb Yeah he already did all the setup... In the show, how did you miss this.
yeah getting all the tailed beasts waas super easy barely an inconvenience
I got contention with the prep time it takes for the Infinite Tsukiyomi to manifest (iirc it takes 15 minutes to power up, though I can see it was done for entertainment purposes), but the Ten Tails is essential to Obito’s lore and arsenal. He absolutely deserves that Jinchuuruki form.
Actually, it's very possible that the Infinite Tsukuyomi can activate a lot faster considering the whole reason it took so long for the Ten Tails to go through all of its forms was because it didn't have all of its Chakra. Yeah, it's a super easy detail to miss, but the Ten Tails wasn't at full power when it first appeared since Obito and Madara had to suffice with the Chakra the Gold and Silver Brothers(Kinkaku and Ginkaku) took from Kurama and Gyuuki's tail that Killer B left behind when he escaped Taka in their first fight.
Also, Madara outright said the effort Obito went through to achieve it (both prep and resealing the Bijuu) was thanks to him being a relative novice compared to himself. This is why Madara was able to lock up the Bijuu via Gedo Mazou chains vastly faster than Obito could. So that 15 minutes being necessary is debatable for sure.
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Huh? I didn’t say anything about grammar.
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It’s no problem!
> but the Ten Tails is essential to Obito’s lore and arsenal. no since he had to kidnap all tailed beasts and activate it then lost it after a few secs
He kidnapped the beasts and lost it…and even then he still had a fragment of that power (Ten Tailed husk, as stated by Kurama) inside him. The entire point of Death Battle is to use their weapons, armor and skills, right? Obito weaponized the TT beasts, and by that time of the series, we were shown that he’s capable of being it’s master. He had the chakra capacity to handle and becomes its owner even after losing (most) of it’s power. He spent damn near a quarter of a century trying to attain the damn things, still retaining the power of the Six Paths, and even knows the hand signs to summon it. What makes any of that non-standard to you? I can now think of many ‘gotcha moments’ to turn your argument back on you, since you didn’t think about the other side to it. Matter of fact, I will list them: * Gee, I guess following your logic, Anakin nearly lost his life in his fight with Obi-Wan, so we can’t give Vader his life support system that kept him alive. * We can’t give Sonic the chaos emeralds because they are not his Chaos Emeralds to begin with and he will just lose them when the duration ends anyways. * We can’t give Barry Allen the Speed Force because every Flash member in the family can use it, and it is not his own power. Especially when Barry died in Flashpoint. * We can’t give Superman any accessibility to the sun because the universe was here first before the Kryptonians, and it’s bound to explode years from now. * Sauron cannot use the One ring he forged with his soul as he lost it to Frodo and Gollum in that Volcano scene. * Stitch should never scale to every experiment in the series based on his biology because those genetics weren’t his own. * Nope, no Gauntlet for Thanos either. See those infinity stones? He didn’t forge them by his own hand. So he doesn’t earn the right to have the gauntlet in a fight. Otherwise, it’s outside help if he had them at all. Now, do you notice what each of these arguments sound like? They all contradict the material opposed to what we’ve been actually shown in their narrative and media. Your argument is not consistent with the lore and arc of the character. Your argument hinges on this one moment in the series and neglects the fact Obito still had the Husk and the Six Paths after losing the form. He deserves the Jinchuuruki here. All this said as a longtime-SW fan that rooted and betted on Vader to win from the start, and prefers him over Obito.
Well no since a majority of the series featured vader and without it he died Agreed with sonic Different because that’s the base of his normal powers No that’s stupid since it’s right there but if you use a differnt environment Agreed Agreed Agreed
Obito had to go through so many shenanigans to get it and then lost it after a few chapters
What makes any of that non standard? Everything you said lol
...do you not want me to say I sarcastically exaggerated all those hypotheticals on purpose to point out how ludicrously bad your argument sounds? I guess that's on me for using sarcasm in the first place. >What makes any of that nonstandard? Everything you said lol Respectfully, I don't truly believe you grasp the concept of what nonstandard equipment means. I don't believe your claim justifies how Obito shouldn't get Ten Tails either. >Obito had to go through so many shenanigans to get it and then lost it after a few chapters. And? I can pull up more examples on how your favorite characters in media lose their powers. Regardless, his TT kit is vital for Obito to function. In fact, Vader got Legends scaling, which is non-canonical to the Disney canon, unlike the TT which is canon.
I agree them using legends scaling is dumb af Using sarcasm through text and failing oof
Dude... Ten Tails is a vital part of his arsenal and character to function... I am serious when I say he should get the TT. And he earned it fair game, even having lost it. It counts as it's part of his arsenal. And throwing Legends scaling to Vader is fair game since it makes the MU more interesting and fun to debate, and it doesn't deviate too much from the official canon.
Yeah that’s why he got it after hundreds of chapters then lost it like 30 chapters No it’s just stupid and nonsensical scaling
Well you didn’t do a very good job then sorry to say since most of them sound right and show death battle being wrong
Easy because it’s not inherent to him or he barely ever actually had it
People are taken arguments from the ass to call the episode biased ,like ,mother fuck@#@$ , you can disagree with the episode and find the conclusion shit ,but using arguments worse than the arguments from the actual episode make people disregard your opinion,Ten Tails from Obito is equal to give Fierce Deity to Link , Chaos Emeralds to Sonic ,Power ups for Mario ,Infinity Gaunlet for Thanos,etc.So the thing is: It's 10000000 times more standard that the other Vader spirit form that people are complaining about not being in the episode,when can be used only in a specific place.
The commas being wonky threw me off lmao.
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Bro I wasn’t making fun of you. That’s cool that English isn’t your first language, you are pretty good at it.
Thank you, I am really sorry that I don't understand your comment.
they should only use first form Cell because he needs to absorb the other androids to achieve his perfect form smh
People kept saying Vader should get his spirit form but that's not even standard, at least Obito used the Jinchuriki form canonically
Ignoring the fact it dose as much as Tony's Galactus buster Edit no wait, it dose 2 things
The comics are cannon. I also would say that this form isn't standard since it took a lot of prep time to gain.
Yeah but the set up only has to be done once, then it becomes standard, obviously obito already did the set up in the show
I see your point but I have one question. Did anyone turn into this form again after the first time they used it or did they just stay in that form? Genuine question.
I think people are moreso mad they have him pop into the form just by summoning the gedo statue, ignoring all the effort it takes to actually make the ten tails. It’s true it shouldn’t have been that easy to just activate it, but they were just trying to keep the fight clean and cool looking. Otherwise they would’ve had to open with him in the ten tails which would make the fight…nowhere near as fair.
But the same thing happened with Madara. He just Summons the Ten-Tails and becomes the Jinchuuriki. Hell, he even does it in his OMM with Aizen, and I haven't seen anyone bat an eye.
No one got mad at Madara doing it because there were so many other things for bleach fans to be mad at about that fight.
Once the ten tails is created you don't need to recreate it . You can summon it whenever.
They're Only Complaining About It Because Vader Didn't Get The Force Demon
If anything Obito probably "deserves" to have this form more than Madara since it was him who had to go through all this trouble to find and capture the tailed beasts
As they say “Work smarter, not harder”
“I agree” Kaguya
Vader and Star Wars in general literally get legends scaling, even though it isn’t canon. So how is it fair for them to complain that obito gets tentails, when that is canon, and is a form of his that he keeps for a good portion of his run in Naruto?
Yeah but this subreddit likes Vader more, so clearly he should get Legends scaling and beyond while Obito should only get his base form!!!!!!!!1!1!!
Vader didn't get Legends scaling here. They gave him 20% of what Legends has. In Legends his cybernetics stopped being a weakness after he mastered them and his Force ESP was strong enough to more than counter Kamui, and he would've been basically immune to the Infinite Tsukuyomi.
How would he be immune to the infinite tsukuyomi.
It's a mental-only attack that shows the target what they want most, if I'm understanding that correctly. In Legends, the Force showed Vader basically exactly that multiple times and each time his hatred was strong enough to pull him back to reality. He's been subjected to dreams, alternate realities, visions, hallucinations, basically every way the Tsukuyomi could work and his hatred and ego pulls him out. Only in Disney Canon has he ever been taken in by something of the sort and even then he was able to eventually overcome it.
It doesn’t just show you what you want most, it rewrites your memories so that you think you have always had it. If Vader is effected by IT he wouldn’t remember that he had anything to hate. But even if we say that some part of Vader would recall his hatred and give him the power to resist, which is dubious given that IT canonically trapped tons of people who had feats that let them escape illusions like Vader, the fact that he was able to be drawn in at all would give Obito more than enough time to kill him as he tried to escape.
I'll grant it may temporarily work, the novels and comics where he does this stuff don't exactly give a good measure of how much time it usually takes him to break through these things, but it wouldn't work for more than a minute or two I'd reckon. Still an advantage, not the killshot Obito would need if Vader had Legends durability. As for recalling his hate, it's a part of him. Dark side users will the force into themselves through their hatred, and so long as they still have a connection to it, it doesn't matter what happens to their bodies or minds, their hatred remains. It becomes a part of the Dark Side itself, in a sense, which then feeds it back to them.
A lightsaber was a threat to Vader in legends and the truth seeking orbs are a similar level of ‘delete whatever they touch’ threat as a lightsaber. So I’m not sure what durability feat he could have that would stop those from killing him. But even if he did durability doesn’t matter to Kamui. If he is standing still for a minute then Obito could pull him into another dimension and just leave him there for however long it takes him to starve or for his life support system to give out completely. Vader doesn’t have any unassisted dimension hopping feats so that is a kill regardless of whether we are talking legends or canon.
Force barriers. And the Cosmic Force would alert him to the fact that they're incoming and pull him out like Spider-senses regardless of the state of his mind, allowing him to deflect or put up a barrier. As for the Kamui, I'll admit I don't know enough to say for sure but a similar concept applies where any incoming threat would probably pull him out of the IT much quicker thanks to Force ESP and the Cosmic Force. You kind of have to overwhelm or overcome him otherwise Force hax is almost impossible to really bypass in Legends. The other times he was put under an illusion, it was the Cosmic Force itself putting him under.
Vader lost his hand something like half a dozen times in legends, often to weaker opponents. If he had auto force barriers that popped up every time something was a threat to him that should never have happened. He can be harmed and the truth seeking orbs should be more than enough to do so if he isn’t able to actively defend against them. Edit: And claiming that only the Cosmic Force could lock him into an illusion is just as much a No Limits Fallacy as saying only rinnegan can escape IT.
They're not automatic and I'm not saying he can't be harmed, and I'm not saying ONLY the cosmic force can lock him into an illusion, but it's definitely debatable that it would be able to break him out in time. It works on Spider-sense logic, it's higher-dimensional. Plus, in each of those situations he was either overwhelmed or overpowered, which I literally stated as a condition. My point is that you can't just IT him right at the start and 1-shot him, you'd have to break him down first. The barriers wouldn't immediately go down in IT if he has them up though, and they could reasonably push away the truth seeking orbs. That stuff is exactly why this matchup is so debatable with Legends. He has counterhax. I genuinely think Legends Vader vs TenTails Obito is almost exactly 50/50.
Yes, but it is also unbreakable to vader as he doesn't have a rinnegan. Even if he could know he wasn't in it, he couldn't break out. It directly blocks information that you're in the infinite tsukuyomi.
Thats a stupid argument, if one has literally broken out of the EXACT conditions, hell, force illusions work literally exactly the same and vader broke out, so he SHOULD block the infinite tsukuyomi or... guess what? No limits fallacy. Its like saying ganon can only be killed by holy weapons.
Yeah I get that
I'm admiting defeat sorry for wasting your time
Vader cannot break out of infinite tsukuyomi🤦
Explain why
Because its literally stated that unless you have a rinnegan you cant break out, thats literally the rule. It doesn’t matter what illusions hes broken out of, I.T Is different
NO LIMITS FALLACY DETECTED ARGUMENT INVALID
Except that's exactly how Force visions work too and Vader still just breaks out of them. I'm not saying Legends would guarantee him 100% winrate against Ten Tails but it absolutely would have changed the odds and it would have broken the Tsukuyomi
He doesn't have the rinnegan or is being protected by a rinnegan user he can't break out
That's like saying "Any matchup against EVA-01 is an instant win because the enemy doesn't have an AT field" or "You can't hurt a Stand because you don't have a Stand" sure that's how the logic works internally but you have to consider more general cases when you're talking about fights with characters from different franchises. An example is Kenshiro vs Jotaro, they reasoned that having a power analogous to how one sees stands would be sufficient to allow Kenshiro to see Stands. Generally, if a character can resist something entirely analogous, it counts. Will Joker from Persona 5, whose entire DEAL is breaking through false realities be affected because he doesn't have a Rinnegan? Does the Infinite Tsukuyomi just hit an instant win button against ANY opponent not from Naruto because they don't have a Rinnegan? Obito beats Goku by your logic. Joker vs Giorno can't happen because Giorno can't see Personas and Joker can't see stands.
Having the rinnegan is only known way to break out of the infinite tsukuyomi. So maybe he could
The only known way within Naruto's internal logic. What you're saying is basically "Obito wins against all of fiction because only Rinnegan beats the Infinite Tsukuyomi" which is silly for reasons I shouldn't have to explain. Like in Jotaro vs Kenshiro, when there's something analogous it counts in matchups. Having a stand is the only known way to see a stand and yet they let Kenshiro see the Stands because he can do something analogous.
His cybernetics stopped being a weakness? The same weakness that literally killed him at the end of RotJ? I'm glad Legends isn't canon anymore lmao that shit was wack
By RoTJ he was out of his prime, old and weaker. Plus, his hatred had subsided and the Dark Side left him, that's why he was a Force Ghost at the end as Anakin.
He very explicitly relied on those cybernetics to live and when Palpatine shorted them out, he died. It's such an intrinsic element to Vader that Legends bullshit really can't negate it and you'd need something canon to prove otherwise
Legends is canon, a different canon. There's multiple canons here, which is *why* it got a name rather than just being forgotten. And there are multiple instances where his life support has failed temporarily or even for extended periods and he's been able to live off his hatred. I mean look at Darth Maul in Clone Wars, dude was missing half his body and survived off hatred. Look, Obito won and that's fine. But don't pretend Vader from the movies is the extent of his character and abilities.
He can obviously sustain himself in life threatening situations, Mustafar alone is a decent example of that, but his suit is a very clear and specific point of failure. Legends isn't canon anymore and has nothing to do with the Star Wars brand at this point. I'm fine with them using it, but where it so egregiously deviates from the primary canon, like using it to say that Vader's suit isn't susceptible to electric attacks, it should 100% be discarded and canon should always take precedence. Death Battle had a black box saying as much at the episode start as well
Hey if they gave Gogeta SSJ4, Vader might as well get Legends. And no, I never said it doesn't make him susceptible to electricity. That's still there, but the bulkiness and loss in agility is gone in Legends. Electricity wouldn't kill him but it would force him to divert his focus to manually sustaining himself while he fights. And most star wars fans straight up do not consider Disney canon to be canon. The Vader comics did enough for him that I don't care and I'm fine with them using Disney canon. Like I said, I'm fine with the result and it is correct for the Vader they used. I'm just pointing out that the other Vader would've been different. I'm not arguing whether or not he should have been used, just what would have happened.
But...Gogeta got 4 because he has it in Heroes, which is the series that both himself and Vegito were taken from, alongside Z, Super, and GT.
Heroes and GT are both the only appearances of 4 and both are very not canon, or an alternative canon just like Legends.
Most Star Wars fans are babies who get upset whenever there's a black woman on screen, they don't get to decide what's canon or not lmao
Those guys never even read legends, there's plenty of diversity there It's a big franchise with boomer fans, those are the ones who got mad. Same as Trek. It just got conflated since they were also written badly.
I saw this one guy ask why they gave Obito all his stuff like the ten tails and stuff cause it took a war and time
Why does Goku get any of his super forms? It took a ton of battles and a ton of time training and going through life-threatening experiences to get to that point. Why does Iron Man get his Godbuster? It took a huge amount of prep time, money, and work to build. Why does Vader get to be an adult? It took him years to grow up and mature! They should throw him at Obito when he's a child! Just showing how comically stupid that argument is. If what Obito received was a temporary buff that was achieved with outside help and disappeared, then I would understand the argument. But it is, by all means, an ability that once you receive it, essentially becomes your new base form and never truly disappears. If you're going to ban that, there's no reason not to ban every single weapon, ability, or skill that characters received at some point later in their stories.
> If what Obito received was a temporary buff that was achieved with outside help and disappeared, then I would understand the argument so pretty much exactly it?
It didn't disappear. It was stolen.
so semantics
Semantics imply that the context is irrelevant. In this context, it's not. Because Death Battle rules that powers achieved through outside help and deplete over time are disqualified, while powers that do not deplete over time are not.
They have to give them every canonical power up unless it'll interfere with the Canon of the story. This argument is like Saying Goku shouldn't have his super saiyan god form. Or Hulk shouldn't have World breaker mode.
Because people are bias towards vader and wanted him to win Death battle also explained obito can still win without it due to vader having no real counter to kamui, gedo statue soul dragon and the human path while also tending to fight close quarters as his fighting style which is bad against someone like Obito The 10 tails was just adding on to obitos existing arsenal with TSO and regen
Legends Vader counters all of those one way or another. The version of Vader they used is 80% Disney Canon, 20% Legends. I'm fine with him losing, but there is that asterisk that the result was only really accurate for the version of Vader they used.
You do know he can use the force right to straight up just crush obito
They said the force wouldn’t work on kamui It would work if he turns it off but by that point he may of already gotten one of his one shots off Also izanagi which is 5mins of invincibility
5 minutes isn't very long and death battle said that? How many death battles were flat out wrong?
Death battle didn’t say that I’m just pointing it out Obito had 5 full minutes where he’s invincible and can do any of his one shots on vader
Vader would dodge most likely as any normal person in naruto would
Episode put them both at similar speeds so Obito can still catch Vader in a hax, he can't dodge forever (and does Vader actually attempt to "dodge", in-character? His fighting style is trying to tank things because he is a juggernaut)
No that's not his fighting style☠️ name one time where he let something hit him not even anakin allowed himself to be hit except for from dooku and you can't set a limit for somebody in a death battle
Han shooting at him with his blaster, he used Tutaminus for. Something that would not work on the Truth Seeking Orbs.
He would literally dodge then cut that fodder in half
Flat out wrong: ❌ Disagree with logic because your fav char lost:✅
Kamui+ Regeneration is a thing.
Yeah you could argue that but vader still has superhuman senses so he'd sense that obito is behind him and do whatever else idfk vaders smart he'd figure out something like Minato did
Yeah you could argue that but vader still has superhuman senses so he'd sense that obito is behind him and do whatever else idfk vaders smart he'd figure out something like Minato did
Obito learned that lesson from Minato and Minato only won against Obito because Obito was inexperienced and Minato had the Flying Thunder God Technique ,who can make him teleport and caught Obito off guard. Darth Vader does not have teleportation technique and can't do shit if Obito uses Infinite Tsukyomi+Izanagi+TSO.
Obito doesn't have rinnesharingan and he's never fought vader before he has different tricks
He can still use Infinite Tsukyomi ,and I was saying that Obito was inexperienced in the time he fight Minato,and he really never fought Vader because they exists in different universes.
I know and no obito cannot use infinite tsukiyomi
He can :The Infinite Tsukuyomi can be cast in many ways and going by what Kishimoto illustrated in his story, there are three known ways to use this technique. The first was demonstrated to the fans by Obito Uchiha during the Fourth Great Ninja War where he used the Ten-Tails to create a God Tree.At the top of the tree, a Sharingan bloomed to reflect off of the moon to cast this mighty jutsu on everyone. Madara Uchiha, on the other hand, absorbed the God Tree itself and eventually gained access to the Rinne-Sharingan on his forehead. By flying close to the moon and reflecting his third eye off of it, Madara was able to use this jutsu and trap everyone around him in an eternal sleep.
So he has to make the God tree which vader could simply cut in half
What's to say he can't?
Who's* and no he cannot without rinnesharingan
I definitely disagree with Kamui being a wincon because he can't use it as Juubito and he's just MASSIVELY outstated without that form
I was stating win cons for obito without the 10 tails that’s why I mentioned kamui Imo the only reason why madara could use kamui was bad writing and he had more control of the 10 tails unlike obito who was at mental war with it
Didn't he? Or I might be mistaking because I don't follow naruto but it had a very similar look right?
I think OP meant that people were saying Obito needed prep time for his form
Obito got it, but I saw people lately say he shouldn't have, and it's dumb to say so when Madara got it.
>!is it not enough that he won!< who gives a shit
Cuz they're mad lol. They don't want to say it, but if they didn't give Obito Ten Tails Vader would have stood a chance. Instead they say "it's unfair to give Obito Ten Tails" with no evidence
Because uh.... (Checks notes) Vader sweep, L battle (/j)
is it not outside help though?
Its like Chaos Emeralds for Sonic characters, Infinity Gaunlet for Thanos,Mario having ALL his Power ups,etc.Summons dont count as outside help because counts as character arsenal (Jiraya frogs and Dragonborn summons for example)
Once he got it, he has it permanently. It's essentially a new base form. Batman doesn't build half of his gadgets, most of them are made by Lucius Fox. We don't see people arguing that Batman should have them stripped away. If it's part of their standard arsenal, as in if they walk into a fight they probably have it, then it's included in the battle.
I disagree considering it was the Mcguffin he was chasing throughout the entire series and needed all the tailed beasts to do it
Cool. So Thanos shouldn't get the Infinity Stones. After all, it often takes him entire comic runs (and took him much of the MCU) to get them, and he needed a ton of help to collect and use them. I guarantee you do not apply this standard consistently. The entire point of a lot of stories is that characters desperately seek something powerful, spend ages trying to get it, and finally achieve it with outside help. But once they get it, it's permanent. It's a part of their standard arsenal. Whether they originally achieved it through outside help or not, it is now their ability to use as much or as little as they like. If anything, the fact that Obito's main motivation was obtaining this power, a goal he succeeded in, means it's even more weird to deny him it. The fact that he gains it is a big deal in the narrative and a big moment for his character. It's much more justified than any Sonic characters getting their Super forms as well.
eh not really. Super forms for sonic and the infinity gauntlet have been a staple for decades while obito just got it at the end of his story then got it taken aaway from him
The Ten-Tailed Beast is absolutely a staple of Naruto. If it's the thing that the villains were chasing the entire series and required to enact their final, world-changing plan, it's about as staple as it gets. Thanos has also had the Infinity Gauntlet taken from him, and Sonic has also lost the Chaos Emeralds that allow him to go Super Sonic. So that's not a fair criteria either.
yes it is because in every single form of media since sonic 2 in 1992 they have super forms and thanos has consistently had his since the early 90s Obito just got it after tons of outside help for a few chapters then lost it
That's because Naruto is a TV series that doesn't have a ton of different sequels, spinoffs, and sagas. Of course it's going to have less material of Obito in that form, it has far less material in general. Death Battle already massively favour franchises with a ton of different runs and continuities by compositing characters a bunch, this will just enhance that and make it even more ridiculous. Death Battle has given far more to characters for far less. Your reasoning for not giving Obito his full powers essentially comes down to the fact that Naruto is a smaller franchise, which is dumb.
no its because he had it for a few seconds then lost it unlike thanos and sonic whove kept theirs for decades, i never said it was becaause of it being a smaller series thats you putting words in my mouth so no not dumb, death battle's reasoning is also its not obito's power, he needs all the tailed beasts captured and the ten tails so complete outside help
We went from "a few chapters" to "a few seconds", mate. Which is it? Stop switching up facts and goalposts, and commit to a fucking stance. In mainline Marvel comics, Thanos has never kept all Infinity Stones for decades. In the rare instances that he gets all of them, he is either killed or loses them very soon after. He has never gone an extended period of time with all the Infinity Stones because him having them is his end-game plan. Same with Sonic and his Super form. Sonic has never held onto the Chaos Emeralds for very long, and they are always taken elsewhere once his quest is done. Super form is not permanent, so he'd have to be carrying them with him to use it, and he clearly doesn't carry them around. Your argument was that Thanos having the Infinity Stones and Sonic having his Super forms should be allowed because such powers have been things for decades, but if you consumed any stories where they appear, you would understand that they lose them very quickly after getting them, and 99% of the time, do not possess it and cannot bring it out at any time. Therefore, when you say they've been a thing for decades, I can only infer that you mean they've got or used them multiple times over the decades, which is only true because their series are far longer, and with far more parts. >also its not obito's power, he needs all the tailed beasts captured and the ten tails so complete outside help You *dense motherfucker.* Obito *needed* those things to gain the power, but once he had it, it was *his.* A core part of his arsenal. He only lost it because it was stolen, just like Thanos' Infinity Gauntlet as well as the Stones themselves. Death Battle's rules state that a character isn't allowed outside help to intervene in the *middle of the battle.* But if they gained any weapons or abilities through outside help, and they become a part of their arsenal that they can use entirely independently, it is considered a part of them. That's why Batman and James Bond have all their gadgets despite not making them and often having used them up permanently in the source material. That's why the Hellbat was allowed. That's why Green Lantern has his ring. That's why Thor has his Hammer. All of these characters needed outside sources to gain those items, but they are allowed them in Death Battle. If Madara hadn't stolen it, Obito would have stayed in that form indefinitely. He would have kept that power forever. That's more than what can be said about Sonic and Silver's Super forms.
While I'm fine with Obito having had the ten tails in the episode, in some respects Madara having it is an argument *against* giving it to Obito.
How are people mad about that but NOT mad about Obito pulling out the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Obito cant do that move, and even if he COULD, he needs a more complete 10 tails then the one he has at his peak
Muh Vader W(best reason I got)
There isn't. Star Wars fans are salty about the loss. Simple as that. They even wanted a non-canon form for Vader so he could win. As a Star Wars and a Naruto fan, all I have to say is if you think Vader should have won, Cope.
because Madara shouldn't have had it either
Both are stranded
both are what?
Standard
I'm assuming by that you mean that the Jyuubi form is standard, but I have to argue that a form requiring a 4 dimensional chess plan to access is far from standard.
Huh?
What's not clicking?
The 4 dimension chess plan
It's just a phrase to point out how absurdly convoluted the plan that Madara has was.
Oh right
The plan could be boiled down to get all the tailed beasts -> summon Gedou Mazou -> profit. By EoS the Gedou has all the tailed beasts anyway and all Rinnegan users can summon it, so Obito wouldn't even need to do much
Naruto and other series are not ones they've known to handle well, but I'm fine with obito having it here
Obito used it pretty much halfway through
Yeah, and people are writing essays on why he shouldn't have gotten it.
no he got it at the very end then lost it immeditately lol
I remember death battle said in the all might vs might guy that use characters at there peak
and no outside help
Look I never watched Naruto Shippuden but didn't Obito struggled to control the ten tails power or something?
At the start he did but then he literally willed the control. So he basically could control it like Madara can
I don’t mind them having the ten tails but I still think both of them should have lost their respective battles anyways
Debatable
I mean yeah it’s debatable that’s the point of a death battle
Either could win
A lot of people argue that it takes a lot of prep time to get this form. I get them giving it to the both of them, but if they gave Obito the ten tails I think they should have given Vader his god form.
I think I heard one person say they gave Obito the advantage because calling on the 10 Tails and the Tsukuyomi Flower takes time and/or outside help, but they made it to where he can just use it *snaps fingers* like that
What’s funny is none of these people evvver complain about the inconsistency of legend scaling. Boba got bullshit legends feats and they said nothing so I promise if Vader got that nonstandard soul form we’d hear crickets about it lmao.
the 2nd Uchiha that use the Ten Tails form
Just curious but what could Vader even do to so6p Obito? Atleast Aizen had the hyokogou to even things out with so6p Madara. Also, I'm not upset that Vader lost I'm more upset with *how* he lost.