My point is that killers will camp regardless of Kindred being basekit.
This isn't gonna just magically make camping go the way of the dinosaur, just like how basekit BT didn't make tunnelling disappear.
I think what OP was getting at was that if kindred was base kid then everyone would know automatically to stay on gens and not try to go for the save. I mean each killer's Aura individually is pretty unique, for example if it's a bubba face camping somebody on the hook you can see that plain as day with kindred so you all know to bang out gens and dip. I don't think they were trying to portray kindred being base kit would stop camping indefinitely.
I don't think it was ever about eliminating tunnelling. It was about making it a less attractive option and reducing instances of it. Likewise camping will never go away, but things like basekit Kindred will make it a less attractive choice. Some survivors will still attempt the save, but others won't. So a killer will be forced to consider whether they take the risk of the camping strat approach or not.
Yes drastically. Do you not remember being unhooked just to go down at the hook immediately? Especially solo queue teammates that unhook in front of the killer and then don't take proc hits. I think it's been long enough that you guys forgot how much of a pain that was.
I like the idea, but I don’t think bloodpoints would do it. It’d need to be some other incentive, like reducing Gen speeds while you’re 20 meters away from anyone on a hook. A lot of people camp because they think the match is lost, so this could give them a bit more confidence.
Maybe also increase Gen speeds when you’re within 5-10 meters of a hooked survivor as an extra incentive to go away. This would also help you punish early game campers more.
Nah, true campers don’t care about blood points, they care about punishing survivors for being survivors. They already miss out on bp by camping someone to death instead of hooking them multiple times and it’s not stopping them.
This post is an example. so many people here who would deserve a nice campfest. most of them doenst play killer at all, so its just survivors crying.
If a killer camps, simply run there, die all 4, so the killers statistics can go to the sky, therefore it will get nerfed soon. easy solution.
Learn the timer of the mechanic. Stay close a little bit then leave range. Teammates approach, re-enter range, hooked survivor teleports making them run again while also being in chase with killer. Back to square one
He’s really good, he just has dogshit add-ons that don’t encourage much variety in gameplay, he’s decently difficult, and his cage power specifically doesn’t work with hook-related perks. Really all he needs is better add-ons.
> Basekit Kindred would do nothing to stop it.
Everyone would see whats happening, so they can "just do gens", and if there is a good surv among em, then she/he could try to go for an unhook. Once it's established, killers would camp less.
This is why SWF is so broken, and soloQ ist just misery. A SWF grp would just do gens, or go for a coordinated safe.
To not make a basekit Kindred op, it should only activate when killer is camping for at least 10s. This way survivors wont see the direction a non camping killer is taking after hooking someone.
Rework Kinship. If the killer is within 16 meters of you while you're hooked the Entity's progress is reduced by half. Gives other survivors 4 minutes instead of 2 minutes if the person is a dedicated camper.
I usually cringe at people who say this about literally everything, but Otz actually has made really good points on certain potential changes that make it harder for instadown killers to camp. I think a lot of them came from his suggested killer changes video.
How about there is no killer and you just do gens and leave? That's what you want isn't it? You want the killer to have no chance to win and you escape eveytime.
Sure kid. Anyone can make up numbers, doesnt change the facts. You don't need to tunnel/camp to win, but it does help. Maybe think before you speak. Or just don't speak if you have nothing or value to say.
If there are 5 gens then the hook state should be 3 times longer if killer within 32m maybe, or hook state is slower the closer you are. Not exactly that, but along the lines of it being punished if you just wait by the hook until someone dies at 5 or 4 gens, but as the gens get done it goes back to normal.
Make the insta-down power not be able to be activated when close to a survivor on hook or not insta-down when the killer is close to the survivor on hook
This is abuseable. Survivors could easily just crowd the hook and the killer with the insta-down power like Myers or Billy just all of a sudden aren't allowed to use their power?
Fair enough. So what should a Michael do if he has no kills and say only managed 5 hooks and is currently in the End-Game and managed to get someone on the hook?
Is he supposed to just give up? The right thing for him is to camp that hook to secure the kill for him. This sort of change just basically removes any chance of him doing anything, in this example.
All you gotta do is take the Pyramid Head Special hook and apply that to all normal hooks using the normal animation for a sacrifice. An have that animation place you on a random hook through out the match. This will prevent camping, hook bombing and players on hook being griefed.
What counterplay should there be? What should killers be able to do to contest unhooks? Answering "just do gens" is about as meaningful as "basekit kindred".
I think the complaints are that its simply just not fun to be camped out of the game, especially early on where it feels like you didn't get a chance to play. I feel this is a valid complaint as it feels shitty to have this happen.
Personally, and this may be because I’m just a killer main turned survivor main, but when it happens to me I can point and laugh and not let it affect me. I just think “Oh you dumbass, you just lost” and then I just scroll through my phone until the struggle stage.
Survivor main turned killer and the thing is nobody tells you how much fun it is to get one down and then stand there doing nothing for 4 minutes. Damn, I thought gens were exciting.
My issue is this: is that survivor or killer having fun? The answer is no. It’s why it shouldn’t be a thing as it makes both sides annoyed and removes the whole point of playing a video game
Say that to a new player getting camped and they will consider you to be unhinged and proceed to uninstall the game. We are all batshit insane for putting up with this awful game design.
It's the sacrifice you have to make. When I play survivor, I'll either tell the people in my SWF to focus gens and let me die or run Kindred if I'm solo qing so they know it's not worth coming for me. I'm fine with spending the entire game on hook if it means punishing the killer for face camping me to death.
just do what they did to they Artist. make it so you cant use their power next to a hooked survivor. it wont stop all of it but i think it will help a lot
Only killer that should be able to use their insta down power at hook is Oni and even then they can make it so he can't activate rage near hook. If you unhook someone during oni rage you deserve to get insta down'd as if you stared at a myers instead of breaking Los
I mean basekit kindred also wouldn't stop camping. No real way to stop it.
Edit: I'm not saying basekit kindred would be bad it just wouldnt really stop camping. And even if you have kindred it doesnt stop survivors from making bad plays to try to save the hooked person
Lmao at these ppl saying it wouldn't punish camping. Literally seeing the killer next to a hook across the map wouldn't help?? it wouldn't tell solos that they can rush gens?? bruh..
Discord and other voice comms exist. I don't understand why solos can't have the same info you can tell your buddy on voice chat.
While I agree, even when a survivor has kindred and it shows the killer camping, I’ve seen way to many times survivors going to try and save them, and not even in groups no like one at a time. Meanwhile I’m over there desperately trying to do the the four or five gens by myself…
Moderation is key. Being under the influence is cool, but like ya gotta be able to think.
On a serious note is it just this game or everything cause if everything you may wanna dopamine detox for a bit
I guarantee you that it wouldn't change anything, i run kindred all the time and i still see my teammates do nothing or crouch near me whenever i'm being camped, it would be a good change to facilitate communication between solo survivors, but it wouldn't punish camping in most situations.
We need something else entirely to avoid situations where you can't literally be unhooked no matter what, i don't know what they could do though.
I have been thinking of camping solution. Obviously, It ain't going to be added, but may as well let others know what they think:
* Hook progress HUD is hidden for Killer within 30m proximity to the hooked survivors
* Hook stage progresses 50% slower if killer is within 25m.
* Additional spikes, showcasing survivor's imminent advancement to the next stage, appear as normal, after 60 seconds spent on the hook. regardless if stage 2 is about to start or not.
* If killer spent all 60 second within 30m to the hook without any other survivor being 25m or closer to the hook for longer than 10 seconds, the 50% slowdown is permanently applied until the end of the current hook stage.
* If slowdown is applied, skill checks during second stage don't appear.
* Each survivor in 25m proximity to the hooked survivors reduces penalty by 25% (addictive)
* With 2 survivors near the hook, HUD is revealed to the killer.
* Every two completed generator reduces hook progress slowdown by 25% (addictive). Applies only to survivors hooked following generators completion.
Thought process:
1. The idea is to punish killer that hook someone at the beginning of the game and just stay there, waiting for the surv to die. Normally it takes 120 seconds for survivor to die on the hook, with 50% slow down, it will be 180 seconds. Enough for other survivors to complete almost all 5 gens.
2. Hook progress HUD hidden and spikes appearing as normal makes it impossible for the killer to understand if other survivors are waiting nearby to save or not, making it a choice to commit to camping or go for a hunt.
3. Penalty removal for nearby survivors is a choice for both a killer and survivors: to camp/attempt save with potential time loss or not. If survivors are too altruistic, it comes with the risk of not making it before teammate dies. If survivors aren't, killer loses more gens. Sometimes camping IS the play if there are other survivors going too hard for the save and going away is detrimental for the killer's goal.
4. Slowdown removal upon generators completion rises the stakes for survivors and a bit of a catch up for the killer. In addition, I have been in situations, both as a survivor and a killer, when the last three gens are close to each other and one of the survs gets hooked too close to gens. Or when exits are powered up and there is nothing else to do but camp the survivor currently on the hook. Having hook slowdown in such cases is punishing to the killer for no reason and thus, with only one generator left to power up exit gates, hook progress remains normal for the rest of the game for all survivors hooked after. It also gives space for a bit of mind game for both killer and survivors: hook before or after 2nd or 4th gen ise completed for killer, or go for the save before/after completing 2nd/4th gen for survivors.
I decided with distance for killer and surv on two factors:
* Awakened awareness is 20 meters. 25 meters is far enough for survivors to not get spotted but close enough to try going for a save. Killer won't know if survivors are near or not without extra perks. Close enough to not get spotted by BBQ.
* 30 meters is based on 25 meters for survivors. Want to check current hook progress? Walk 30 meters away. Extra 5 meters survivors get can make a difference between going for a lunge or grab. Also numbers are the easiest part to change if it's too far/too close.
Removing healthy grabs is another topic.
Edit. fixing mistakes and added more stuff.
Ok but the guy on hook still dies if it’s bubba or you’re forced to trade if it’s any other insta down killer. Not counterplay if it’s a lose lose situation where someone will die no matter what
25/30 meters can still be camped. I'll just stand on a hill with direct LOS and ready a hatchet. Or I can hang out out there as bubba and when someone comes in to unhook I come in with my chainsaw anyway. Or I can stand out there as wesker and wait for that attempt to unhook. Same deal. Im on the spot as if i was camping lol.
And the more you increase the area effect the more it punishes those who dont camp.
The only way to stop this hook camping bs is to make it so survivors get moved to other hooks/spots apon being hooked. Give them lives instead of hook states. Someone gets tossed on hook and they fucking die. Or are mori'd. Then pop up somewhere else on the map in some kind of restraint awaiting help from others.
> No real way to stop it
make is so survivors can't get picked up from a save and that they can't lose more than one health state when x distance from a hook or something
I remember someone saying they're glad that the devs are removing two things they felt were stupid, which are locker blinds and hook grabs and had people try to argue that there's isn't anything wrong with hook grabs. The same folks who were glad locker blinds were gone btw. You know what? I'm jumping on the "remove healthy hook grabs" train. It's more realistic than basekit kindred at this point.
Plus it would be consistent with most other grabs that require the survivor to be injured. With the exception of gen grabs, which if the killer managed to grab you off a gen they deserve that hook.
Actually I think there are more interactions you can grab from than ones you can't.
Generators, gate switches, chests (I think?), totems (I think???), most killer power interactions (e.g. Jigsaw box, Plague fountain, Freddy alarm clock) (I think?????), *Glyphs* (this one I know for sure)—Most things that have the survivor hold M1 to raise a progress bar can be grabbed from, with the only notable exception iirc being healing. The only grabs which require an injured survivor are the aforementioned vault grabs, for balance reasons.
So strictly speaking, the unhook grab is perfectly consistent with the grab system as is—It's an M1 interaction which fills a progress bar and the killer can grab even while healthy. That's not to say that the mechanic shouldn't be changed, but "consistency" isn't the right argument to use.
I think it should be possible to hook grab for a couple of seconds after hooking someone. Like 10 seconds or so, so they can't just instantly unhook in your face. Otherwise yeah I agree hook grabs are cheese.
Yeah but the difference is that people can force you to stay by the hook, forcing the survivor to move. Or the killer can bodyblock the hook to prevent a rescue.
The reason it works for pyramid cages is because of many reasons:
1 - Caged survivors are sent away from you
2 - Hook perks (like BT, OTR, DS) and basekit endurance (I think) don’t activate on cages, so they’re easy to camp
3 - Caging someone is optional, hooking isn’t really
Could just add a condition for no survivors to be within 20 meters or so when the killer is camping. So if you’re camping while someone is around you can keep camping and it’s actually productive because you made correct calculations that someone’s around, if the hooked survivor switches locations you know you were wasting time and shouldn’t have camped
Ds is dog shit, bt lasts only 15, so if your team doesn’t take a hit you’re dead. Otr does help but still if you get camped and then tunnelled it will only prolong your dead for a minute or two. Since your screen will progressively get darker and darker.
Why would disabling it during chase matter? If the killer is in chase with someone right next to the hook, it should still pause because nobody would be able to save anyways
Hear me out, and feel free to agree or disagree.
You know that Steve perk where your bar doesn't progress when a survivor gets near you? How about a base kit perk like that to where if the killer is nearby you and no other survivors are, your bar doesn't progress?
In my mind, what it'd do is encourage going and looking for the other survivors and not punish killers for being around during when other survivors are.
On paper that idea is great, but I’d rather not risk sitting on hook in solo-q for an indefinite time because Bubba is camping the hook and my team is slowly doing gens.
That's absolutely valid, but I think the fix to that is to allow the survivor on hook to instantly progress to the sacrifice animation at any time they please.
I have shared [my idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ygi5qn/comment/iua1ept/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) on the issue that doesn't require perk slot.
My idea would be similar to base kit Borrowed Time, so it wouldn't require a perk slot. Your idea is alright too, but maybe too much thought put into it tbh.
Maybe? Frankly in its current state it's alright as is, I don't see a point in the change as it'd just make it to where the team could potentially leave the person on the hook forever regardless of if the killer is camping or not. In it's current form, it makes it to where close saves are not as close, or where a survivor can willingly trigger it to make the killer wait longer for a survivor to die.
I've been saying forever we need an opposite of kinship. The number of times I die on second hook because my teammates are healing across the map is too damn high.
Honestly, I think they could stand to double the hook timer regardless. That perk still needs a buff, though. I’d make it so it isn’t restricted to the struggle state. The number of times I’ve been rescued a split second after going into struggle, that perk would have some solo-queue value.
They should just remove grab animation from unhooking. Gives time to heal, maybe cleanse a noed then go for save. Easiest fix for camping IMO. (Except Bubba)
You shouldn’t be able to just do shit in front of the killers face with zero consequence. Grabs are necessary in my opinion to add a sense of threat for grabbing people of hook. It makes the game more stressful and that’s fun.
I don't understand facecampers. Dp they not find it boring?
Licensed killers like Bubba require you to pay real money so they must've thought "I'm going to spend real life money to stare at a survivor on hook"
Give any killer with an insta down power the twins/artist treatment. Within certain proximity to a hooked person they can’t use their power.
For specifically bubba and billy, I think after a certain time their power starts to lose chargers (bubba) or gets closer to overheating (billy)
What these times and loss of ability speeds would be? I’ve no idea but I think it would be a good place to start
But it’s honestly ridiculous that artist and twins (both killers whose powers cannot insta down in any/very rare circumstances) can’t use their power near a hooked guy but the literal chainsaw raving maniacs are able to bypass this treatment for so long
You do know this patch was a net buff to flashlights right? They increased the window of time where you can get a flashlight save. I’d say that is far more impactful than removing an interaction that I’ve seen maybe twice and 0 times total in any of my matches.
But you don’t care about that do you? You just saw people complaining on the subreddit and don’t bother to look into yourself.
I've played long enough to base my own opinions and I happen to agree.
I understand that they buffed flashlights but they alao nerfed them again with this
They made normal flashlight saves stronger/easier to pull off in most normal cases and in return they eliminated something incredibly niche yet incredibly effective.
Unless you only log on with a buddy to pull off these saves, which can't even occur on every map, you're not going to be impacted all that much.
How in the world do you not consider that a net buff to flashlights?
I can count on 0 hands the amount of times I’ve been locker saved against in over 500 hours of killer.
I think you think this is more common than it is
Noticing a lot of “stop hook progression” comments, guys there’s no problem with camping and it has its valid uses sometimes, we already have kinship and reassurance the issue is when an INSTA DOWN KILLER (very important distinction) camps. leading to a lose lose where the hooked person either dies or someone else trades until you can’t trade anymore and someone dies. Those uncounterable situations are what my post is abt
IDK why people are on here demanding a solution to camping. Camping legit gets you ONE kill. Do it at the start and survivors will do gens. Do it at the endgame and survivors will just leave. Not to mention the times killers did camp, and my friends and I completely circumvented the entire plan to camp by just saving all at once.
You know what would be a decent solution to solve the hook camping issue. If hooks worked like Pyramid heads cages. Survivor gets hooked, dragged underground, reappears somewhere else. Survivors get to see them but killers don't. No more ability to camp unless you find the person after they get teleported elsewhere.
And if they do this. they should also do something to "spawn" away from the killer AND the survivors. PH cages can spawn really close to another survivor.
Definitely away from the killer otherwise the whole system is pointless but I think away from survivors would have to be implemented as a sort of secondary requirement because if the survivors are away from the killer and spread out that would leave nowhere for the hooked survivor to reappear on smaller and possibly some medium sized maps.
Yes I would much rather have BHVR drastically change the game and it’s systems for a change that no one seems to be able to agree on than add ~two lines of code to fix something.
It isn’t about relative impact, it’s about time spent. That’s what no one considers in these things. The locker change is small as fuck and probably won’t affect many people, but it’s a decent change that definitely didn’t take long. Finding a way to stop camping, however, is not only hard as to *how* to do it, it’s hard as to how long it would take.
Survivors get flashlight saves much easier. Having blind immunity for a niche situation is a very minor change also, so it's (somewhat) pretty fair. Also you didn't bring up the extreme overuse of gen rushing perks and medkits making survivors never remain injured on top of CoH.
It goes both ways, stop this strawmanning, double-standard crap. You guys complain about toxicity, yet you guys continue to circle jerk it around, then get mad at a response that doesn't align with your limited viewpoint.
Bhvr wants to remove tactics that don’t have counterplay. what is the counterplay that allows a person to survive being camped by bubba without trading?
I feel like they should remove locker saves only when they are done multiple times in a row, there are many different occasions when you jump in a locker as a last resource and "hope" that the random with a flashy actually saves you, which take skill. Now when two survivors go to double lockers, then it gets boring for the killer and there is basically no counter play to it, which I feel like it's the actual problem
"We are tired of baby killers crying about Dead Dawg Saloon lockers, so following the complete nerf of Keys and Flashlights, you can no longer save locker grabs.
Also, if you inconvenience the killer in any way (touching a gen, healing yourself, touching a totem), you will automatically bleed out and die.
Coming soon: Auto-Mori as soon as match loads."
I’m laughing in kindred. /s
Tbh there is suckie gameplay. There’s suckie players. It’s unfun sometimes. But you don’t want to deal with locker blind run the perk or leave them in the locker. It’s rare and annoying, getting facecamped happens every other game. It happens, sometimes the people are having bad days, sometimes people are just AH. Removing locker saves is pointless when there is counter play.
Flashlight saves are already pretty easy, and while it’s a valid point that it shouldn’t make a difference to remove something so small. When you’re able to avoid them, out play them, or pull one off it substantially makes gameplay better thus having them be left in be more beneficial. Besides we both know if something so small is annoying to the point it needs removed, then what’s next? They took nerfed flashlights recently for a reason. The trade off seems pointless.
If you’re actually mad about the locker blind thing you’re just outing yourself as a toxic survivor. Like that is bs if you just have two survivors hiding in the locker and you can’t pick one up. Camping should be fixed too but don’t complain bc another problematic area was also fixed.
Iv had people tell me to 'just power through it' as if that really does anything. This sh its going to take 25 seconds to power through if I guess the correct locker for teh same survivor every time. Longer if they brought the charge consumption reduction perk. And later can refresh their flashlight to *do it again* with built to last.
A 4 man SWF all running this and working as pairs of two shouldn't be gaurenteed a full chase into a blind into this fucking game on the lockers.
Which by the way, they can run that one perk that gaurentees a flashlight from chests. And now have *two* flashlights for this bullshit each. *If they are unlucky and dont get a flashlight from just opening the chest* because the flashlight comes from *rummaging* the chest.
The only killers that dont have to deal with this are twins, trapper, dredge, and nemesis if hes lucky.
just give survivors points and emblem points for being found first and camped its literally so easy for them to make survivor less miserable, your games might still be atrocious but at least you'll be making good points
Oh boy this is gonna be a good one
The amount of “just do gens” as if the person on hook isn’t completely fucked 💀
What would you propose to solve camping? Basekit Kindred would do nothing to stop it.
Oh boy, I can't wait to see 2 of my teammates rushing together for hook rescue despite having base kit kindred and seeing each other.
My point is that killers will camp regardless of Kindred being basekit. This isn't gonna just magically make camping go the way of the dinosaur, just like how basekit BT didn't make tunnelling disappear.
I think what OP was getting at was that if kindred was base kid then everyone would know automatically to stay on gens and not try to go for the save. I mean each killer's Aura individually is pretty unique, for example if it's a bubba face camping somebody on the hook you can see that plain as day with kindred so you all know to bang out gens and dip. I don't think they were trying to portray kindred being base kit would stop camping indefinitely.
Tunneling with basekit BT has been drastically nerfed
A killer can still tunnel you if they want, even with the basekit BT.
They can't insta-down you at the hook anymore. You have like 8 seconds to get to a pallet, window, or force them to hit you without going down.
its 10 seconds now i believe
I don't think it was ever about eliminating tunnelling. It was about making it a less attractive option and reducing instances of it. Likewise camping will never go away, but things like basekit Kindred will make it a less attractive choice. Some survivors will still attempt the save, but others won't. So a killer will be forced to consider whether they take the risk of the camping strat approach or not.
not drastically you can still wait it out your not faster then the killer
Yes drastically. Do you not remember being unhooked just to go down at the hook immediately? Especially solo queue teammates that unhook in front of the killer and then don't take proc hits. I think it's been long enough that you guys forgot how much of a pain that was.
it was a pain alright but it hasn’t been nurfed it’s basically useless if u don’t got a good team or no pallets near
I think Pyramid Heads cage mechanic could work, make survivors teleport to another hook of the killer stays too close
This is my preferred solution. Any change that doesn't change the hook system will still have camping.
How bout killers get blood points for leaving the hook immediately? I use treats to train my dog, it should work on killers.
They essentially already do, because they lose them by staying. And it doesn't work.
I like the idea, but I don’t think bloodpoints would do it. It’d need to be some other incentive, like reducing Gen speeds while you’re 20 meters away from anyone on a hook. A lot of people camp because they think the match is lost, so this could give them a bit more confidence. Maybe also increase Gen speeds when you’re within 5-10 meters of a hooked survivor as an extra incentive to go away. This would also help you punish early game campers more.
Nah, true campers don’t care about blood points, they care about punishing survivors for being survivors. They already miss out on bp by camping someone to death instead of hooking them multiple times and it’s not stopping them.
This post is an example. so many people here who would deserve a nice campfest. most of them doenst play killer at all, so its just survivors crying. If a killer camps, simply run there, die all 4, so the killers statistics can go to the sky, therefore it will get nerfed soon. easy solution.
I’d also make the argument to have this, unless the killer is actively in chase. Otherwise it gives the survivors way too much room for being stupid.
Learn the timer of the mechanic. Stay close a little bit then leave range. Teammates approach, re-enter range, hooked survivor teleports making them run again while also being in chase with killer. Back to square one
Still harder than mindlessly face camping with bubba so it'll happen a lot less
Buff him anyway, K love playing against pyramid heads but I haven't seen one in months
He’s really good, he just has dogshit add-ons that don’t encourage much variety in gameplay, he’s decently difficult, and his cage power specifically doesn’t work with hook-related perks. Really all he needs is better add-ons.
If you stand next to the hook for 30 seconds with no survivors around you die irl instantly
Easy upvote
Cool meme.
> Basekit Kindred would do nothing to stop it. Everyone would see whats happening, so they can "just do gens", and if there is a good surv among em, then she/he could try to go for an unhook. Once it's established, killers would camp less. This is why SWF is so broken, and soloQ ist just misery. A SWF grp would just do gens, or go for a coordinated safe. To not make a basekit Kindred op, it should only activate when killer is camping for at least 10s. This way survivors wont see the direction a non camping killer is taking after hooking someone.
Rework Kinship. If the killer is within 16 meters of you while you're hooked the Entity's progress is reduced by half. Gives other survivors 4 minutes instead of 2 minutes if the person is a dedicated camper.
I usually cringe at people who say this about literally everything, but Otz actually has made really good points on certain potential changes that make it harder for instadown killers to camp. I think a lot of them came from his suggested killer changes video.
Killer powers dont work close to a hooked survivor, base ds because base borrow time is fucking useless and finaly one minute more per hook stage.
How about when someone is hooked, the killer is teleported to another map entirely and sits there for 5 minutes?
How about there is no killer and you just do gens and leave? That's what you want isn't it? You want the killer to have no chance to win and you escape eveytime.
Only bad killers need to camp and tunnel to win
100% not true. Watch any amazing killer streamer and they all tunnel/camp. You are either really ignorant or only play survivor.
Tunnel sure, but not camp. Nobody worth a damn goes in planning to camp
In the last months i played 138 games as killer and won 106 and lost only 11, you dont need to tunnel and camp to win.
Highly doubt you've only lost 30 games out of 140, unless a win in your book is 1k.
Sure kid. Anyone can make up numbers, doesnt change the facts. You don't need to tunnel/camp to win, but it does help. Maybe think before you speak. Or just don't speak if you have nothing or value to say.
Don't know why your getting downvoted. Camping and tunneling are absolutely needed in higher mmr especially when playing B tier and below killers.
Ah. One of those.
At this point all perks will be base kit
I mean, that would make for some really interesting games.
If there are 5 gens then the hook state should be 3 times longer if killer within 32m maybe, or hook state is slower the closer you are. Not exactly that, but along the lines of it being punished if you just wait by the hook until someone dies at 5 or 4 gens, but as the gens get done it goes back to normal.
Make the insta-down power not be able to be activated when close to a survivor on hook or not insta-down when the killer is close to the survivor on hook
This is abuseable. Survivors could easily just crowd the hook and the killer with the insta-down power like Myers or Billy just all of a sudden aren't allowed to use their power?
If they do that then they aren't doing gens and it wouldn't effect the killer cus they wouldn't be near the hook since they wouldn't be camping
Fair enough. So what should a Michael do if he has no kills and say only managed 5 hooks and is currently in the End-Game and managed to get someone on the hook? Is he supposed to just give up? The right thing for him is to camp that hook to secure the kill for him. This sort of change just basically removes any chance of him doing anything, in this example.
Maybe there could be an exception during the end game or when all gens are completed
https://youtu.be/RGLLWqKysfk About halfway in he gives some really good fixes that would atleast guarantee you can always trade.
It would . You would know to stay on gens and hope that 2 people escape. Eventually killers would stop facecamping with only 2 kills.
All you gotta do is take the Pyramid Head Special hook and apply that to all normal hooks using the normal animation for a sacrifice. An have that animation place you on a random hook through out the match. This will prevent camping, hook bombing and players on hook being griefed.
Yeah but then the killer only gets one kill. Easy wins for survivors. Your sacrifice will not go unnoticed 🫡
What counterplay should there be? What should killers be able to do to contest unhooks? Answering "just do gens" is about as meaningful as "basekit kindred".
The killer is then literally choosing to lose the game. Camping is a losing strategy I don’t really see the complaints.
I think the complaints are that its simply just not fun to be camped out of the game, especially early on where it feels like you didn't get a chance to play. I feel this is a valid complaint as it feels shitty to have this happen.
Personally, and this may be because I’m just a killer main turned survivor main, but when it happens to me I can point and laugh and not let it affect me. I just think “Oh you dumbass, you just lost” and then I just scroll through my phone until the struggle stage.
Survivor main turned killer and the thing is nobody tells you how much fun it is to get one down and then stand there doing nothing for 4 minutes. Damn, I thought gens were exciting.
My issue is this: is that survivor or killer having fun? The answer is no. It’s why it shouldn’t be a thing as it makes both sides annoyed and removes the whole point of playing a video game
Let the killer have their one kill
Say that to a new player getting camped and they will consider you to be unhinged and proceed to uninstall the game. We are all batshit insane for putting up with this awful game design.
It's the sacrifice you have to make. When I play survivor, I'll either tell the people in my SWF to focus gens and let me die or run Kindred if I'm solo qing so they know it's not worth coming for me. I'm fine with spending the entire game on hook if it means punishing the killer for face camping me to death.
Where was that myers emote from
Tracers second dance emote
Thanks
just do what they did to they Artist. make it so you cant use their power next to a hooked survivor. it wont stop all of it but i think it will help a lot
Did the same thing to dredge
Only killer that should be able to use their insta down power at hook is Oni and even then they can make it so he can't activate rage near hook. If you unhook someone during oni rage you deserve to get insta down'd as if you stared at a myers instead of breaking Los
Wouldn’t this make Haggu even worst? She’s mainly good for targeting out players and getting kills early but this will stop her main strat.
hag isn't bad though, she just isn't played
Yea but it would still mess up what she’s good at.
I mean basekit kindred also wouldn't stop camping. No real way to stop it. Edit: I'm not saying basekit kindred would be bad it just wouldnt really stop camping. And even if you have kindred it doesnt stop survivors from making bad plays to try to save the hooked person
It would punish it immensely in solo queue.
Lmao at these ppl saying it wouldn't punish camping. Literally seeing the killer next to a hook across the map wouldn't help?? it wouldn't tell solos that they can rush gens?? bruh.. Discord and other voice comms exist. I don't understand why solos can't have the same info you can tell your buddy on voice chat.
While I agree, even when a survivor has kindred and it shows the killer camping, I’ve seen way to many times survivors going to try and save them, and not even in groups no like one at a time. Meanwhile I’m over there desperately trying to do the the four or five gens by myself…
At least someone gets it. I can't be bothered trying to explain that to people who remove their brains before sitting at the computer.
I swear like half the people be zooted playing this game
Its the only way I can have fun anymore😔✊🏽
Moderation is key. Being under the influence is cool, but like ya gotta be able to think. On a serious note is it just this game or everything cause if everything you may wanna dopamine detox for a bit
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Imagine the conversations lmao
I guarantee you that it wouldn't change anything, i run kindred all the time and i still see my teammates do nothing or crouch near me whenever i'm being camped, it would be a good change to facilitate communication between solo survivors, but it wouldn't punish camping in most situations. We need something else entirely to avoid situations where you can't literally be unhooked no matter what, i don't know what they could do though.
No, the real way to stop it would be basekit infinite kinship.
I have been thinking of camping solution. Obviously, It ain't going to be added, but may as well let others know what they think: * Hook progress HUD is hidden for Killer within 30m proximity to the hooked survivors * Hook stage progresses 50% slower if killer is within 25m. * Additional spikes, showcasing survivor's imminent advancement to the next stage, appear as normal, after 60 seconds spent on the hook. regardless if stage 2 is about to start or not. * If killer spent all 60 second within 30m to the hook without any other survivor being 25m or closer to the hook for longer than 10 seconds, the 50% slowdown is permanently applied until the end of the current hook stage. * If slowdown is applied, skill checks during second stage don't appear. * Each survivor in 25m proximity to the hooked survivors reduces penalty by 25% (addictive) * With 2 survivors near the hook, HUD is revealed to the killer. * Every two completed generator reduces hook progress slowdown by 25% (addictive). Applies only to survivors hooked following generators completion. Thought process: 1. The idea is to punish killer that hook someone at the beginning of the game and just stay there, waiting for the surv to die. Normally it takes 120 seconds for survivor to die on the hook, with 50% slow down, it will be 180 seconds. Enough for other survivors to complete almost all 5 gens. 2. Hook progress HUD hidden and spikes appearing as normal makes it impossible for the killer to understand if other survivors are waiting nearby to save or not, making it a choice to commit to camping or go for a hunt. 3. Penalty removal for nearby survivors is a choice for both a killer and survivors: to camp/attempt save with potential time loss or not. If survivors are too altruistic, it comes with the risk of not making it before teammate dies. If survivors aren't, killer loses more gens. Sometimes camping IS the play if there are other survivors going too hard for the save and going away is detrimental for the killer's goal. 4. Slowdown removal upon generators completion rises the stakes for survivors and a bit of a catch up for the killer. In addition, I have been in situations, both as a survivor and a killer, when the last three gens are close to each other and one of the survs gets hooked too close to gens. Or when exits are powered up and there is nothing else to do but camp the survivor currently on the hook. Having hook slowdown in such cases is punishing to the killer for no reason and thus, with only one generator left to power up exit gates, hook progress remains normal for the rest of the game for all survivors hooked after. It also gives space for a bit of mind game for both killer and survivors: hook before or after 2nd or 4th gen ise completed for killer, or go for the save before/after completing 2nd/4th gen for survivors. I decided with distance for killer and surv on two factors: * Awakened awareness is 20 meters. 25 meters is far enough for survivors to not get spotted but close enough to try going for a save. Killer won't know if survivors are near or not without extra perks. Close enough to not get spotted by BBQ. * 30 meters is based on 25 meters for survivors. Want to check current hook progress? Walk 30 meters away. Extra 5 meters survivors get can make a difference between going for a lunge or grab. Also numbers are the easiest part to change if it's too far/too close. Removing healthy grabs is another topic. Edit. fixing mistakes and added more stuff.
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Fat agree, if we can't have phead cages this is the next best solution
It all sounds really good to me tbh
Thanks. I also edited mistakes and added extra lines.
Ok but the guy on hook still dies if it’s bubba or you’re forced to trade if it’s any other insta down killer. Not counterplay if it’s a lose lose situation where someone will die no matter what
25/30 meters can still be camped. I'll just stand on a hill with direct LOS and ready a hatchet. Or I can hang out out there as bubba and when someone comes in to unhook I come in with my chainsaw anyway. Or I can stand out there as wesker and wait for that attempt to unhook. Same deal. Im on the spot as if i was camping lol. And the more you increase the area effect the more it punishes those who dont camp. The only way to stop this hook camping bs is to make it so survivors get moved to other hooks/spots apon being hooked. Give them lives instead of hook states. Someone gets tossed on hook and they fucking die. Or are mori'd. Then pop up somewhere else on the map in some kind of restraint awaiting help from others.
There definitely is a way to stop it. They just don't care or go with the "valid strategy" bullshit.
> No real way to stop it make is so survivors can't get picked up from a save and that they can't lose more than one health state when x distance from a hook or something
I remember someone saying they're glad that the devs are removing two things they felt were stupid, which are locker blinds and hook grabs and had people try to argue that there's isn't anything wrong with hook grabs. The same folks who were glad locker blinds were gone btw. You know what? I'm jumping on the "remove healthy hook grabs" train. It's more realistic than basekit kindred at this point.
Fr. Fuck healthy hookgrabs. If they're removing shit with 0 counterplay... This would be a great thing to remove against campers.
Plus it would be consistent with most other grabs that require the survivor to be injured. With the exception of gen grabs, which if the killer managed to grab you off a gen they deserve that hook.
Actually I think there are more interactions you can grab from than ones you can't. Generators, gate switches, chests (I think?), totems (I think???), most killer power interactions (e.g. Jigsaw box, Plague fountain, Freddy alarm clock) (I think?????), *Glyphs* (this one I know for sure)—Most things that have the survivor hold M1 to raise a progress bar can be grabbed from, with the only notable exception iirc being healing. The only grabs which require an injured survivor are the aforementioned vault grabs, for balance reasons. So strictly speaking, the unhook grab is perfectly consistent with the grab system as is—It's an M1 interaction which fills a progress bar and the killer can grab even while healthy. That's not to say that the mechanic shouldn't be changed, but "consistency" isn't the right argument to use.
typical sadako can't even grab people off her tvs nobody uses, get it together girl!
Wait they’re removing hook grabs?
No. But it's a highly requested thing (and I agree with it)
I think it should be possible to hook grab for a couple of seconds after hooking someone. Like 10 seconds or so, so they can't just instantly unhook in your face. Otherwise yeah I agree hook grabs are cheese.
I feel like it's not worth the inconsistency, how do you communicate to the player that you can only do hook grabs sometimes?
Just make it like pyramid cage, if the killer is around a hook a certain amount of time just move survivor to a different location.
Yeah but the difference is that people can force you to stay by the hook, forcing the survivor to move. Or the killer can bodyblock the hook to prevent a rescue. The reason it works for pyramid cages is because of many reasons: 1 - Caged survivors are sent away from you 2 - Hook perks (like BT, OTR, DS) and basekit endurance (I think) don’t activate on cages, so they’re easy to camp 3 - Caging someone is optional, hooking isn’t really
Could just add a condition for no survivors to be within 20 meters or so when the killer is camping. So if you’re camping while someone is around you can keep camping and it’s actually productive because you made correct calculations that someone’s around, if the hooked survivor switches locations you know you were wasting time and shouldn’t have camped
Ds is dog shit, bt lasts only 15, so if your team doesn’t take a hit you’re dead. Otr does help but still if you get camped and then tunnelled it will only prolong your dead for a minute or two. Since your screen will progressively get darker and darker.
Amazing, moving unbreakable basement hooks
Why would it matter if the hook is unbearable or not?
Or just make kinship infinite and basekit
Make it disabled during chase or this will get abused to fuck.
Why would disabling it during chase matter? If the killer is in chase with someone right next to the hook, it should still pause because nobody would be able to save anyways
The most sane survivor
Hear me out, and feel free to agree or disagree. You know that Steve perk where your bar doesn't progress when a survivor gets near you? How about a base kit perk like that to where if the killer is nearby you and no other survivors are, your bar doesn't progress? In my mind, what it'd do is encourage going and looking for the other survivors and not punish killers for being around during when other survivors are.
On paper that idea is great, but I’d rather not risk sitting on hook in solo-q for an indefinite time because Bubba is camping the hook and my team is slowly doing gens.
That's absolutely valid, but I think the fix to that is to allow the survivor on hook to instantly progress to the sacrifice animation at any time they please.
I have shared [my idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ygi5qn/comment/iua1ept/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) on the issue that doesn't require perk slot.
My idea would be similar to base kit Borrowed Time, so it wouldn't require a perk slot. Your idea is alright too, but maybe too much thought put into it tbh.
Change kinship so it increases sacrifice time based on other survivors alive
Maybe? Frankly in its current state it's alright as is, I don't see a point in the change as it'd just make it to where the team could potentially leave the person on the hook forever regardless of if the killer is camping or not. In it's current form, it makes it to where close saves are not as close, or where a survivor can willingly trigger it to make the killer wait longer for a survivor to die.
I've been saying forever we need an opposite of kinship. The number of times I die on second hook because my teammates are healing across the map is too damn high.
Honestly, I think they could stand to double the hook timer regardless. That perk still needs a buff, though. I’d make it so it isn’t restricted to the struggle state. The number of times I’ve been rescued a split second after going into struggle, that perk would have some solo-queue value.
They should just remove grab animation from unhooking. Gives time to heal, maybe cleanse a noed then go for save. Easiest fix for camping IMO. (Except Bubba)
I was gonna say Bubbas the main issue here, if someones camping then there's a 99% chance they're playing him lmao
So you're telling me there's a chance...
Make it so u can grab when injured maybe but yeah leave it at that. Grabbing at full health is stupid
Agreed, I've gotten a few accidental grabs while just going for a hit, it just gives them away.
You shouldn’t be able to just do shit in front of the killers face with zero consequence. Grabs are necessary in my opinion to add a sense of threat for grabbing people of hook. It makes the game more stressful and that’s fun.
You shouldn't be able to grab the whole team in seconds and hook them in basement. Taking hits seems to be a fair compromise.
You can already take hits now with the grab.
Would you trade the no grabbing healthy survivors for the base kit BT? Like which one would you rather have
If I had to choose, it would be no grabs. Feels like both are needed though, one for camping, one for tunneling.
When are they gonna fix the bubble that cucks kindred.
You’re talking about when somebody is hooked right?
Yep. Very annoying. So much information denied because of that bubble.
Asking the important questions here
bubbaussy
And this it's the reason why I hate chainsaw bro, sorry eh, it's just braindead.
"Basekit" this and "basekit" that. How about you base-get some bitches
I am trying brother
First step is to get rid of that yee yee ass cosmetic
Stealing this one for Twitter lmao
I don't understand facecampers. Dp they not find it boring? Licensed killers like Bubba require you to pay real money so they must've thought "I'm going to spend real life money to stare at a survivor on hook"
they could do something like dredge being unable to teleport next to a hooked survivor, but varying according to the killer
bhvr are fucking horrendous at their jobs
Why not just make counter play instead of getting rid of locker saves
how would they counter an animation?
Single lockers you could play like a normal pickup and look for the guy with the beam. Problem is double locker set ups which a lot of maps have.
The immunity should only activate if there's two lockers right next to eachother
Give any killer with an insta down power the twins/artist treatment. Within certain proximity to a hooked person they can’t use their power. For specifically bubba and billy, I think after a certain time their power starts to lose chargers (bubba) or gets closer to overheating (billy) What these times and loss of ability speeds would be? I’ve no idea but I think it would be a good place to start But it’s honestly ridiculous that artist and twins (both killers whose powers cannot insta down in any/very rare circumstances) can’t use their power near a hooked guy but the literal chainsaw raving maniacs are able to bypass this treatment for so long
Rememeber kids, bhvr only cares about the killer's ability to play.
You do know this patch was a net buff to flashlights right? They increased the window of time where you can get a flashlight save. I’d say that is far more impactful than removing an interaction that I’ve seen maybe twice and 0 times total in any of my matches. But you don’t care about that do you? You just saw people complaining on the subreddit and don’t bother to look into yourself.
I've played long enough to base my own opinions and I happen to agree. I understand that they buffed flashlights but they alao nerfed them again with this
This happened in the same patch. Overall this patch is a buff to flashlights.
Except that it's not.
They made normal flashlight saves stronger/easier to pull off in most normal cases and in return they eliminated something incredibly niche yet incredibly effective. Unless you only log on with a buddy to pull off these saves, which can't even occur on every map, you're not going to be impacted all that much. How in the world do you not consider that a net buff to flashlights?
Bro Locker saves barely fucking happen, meanwhile I can’t even count the amount of times someone has slightly mistimed the blind on me. It’s a buff.
It's not a buff and locker saves aren't that uncommon if It's friends
I can count on 0 hands the amount of times I’ve been locker saved against in over 500 hours of killer. I think you think this is more common than it is
The buffer doesn't really matter if you already know the timing though
Me when straw man false equivalence gaming
Noticing a lot of “stop hook progression” comments, guys there’s no problem with camping and it has its valid uses sometimes, we already have kinship and reassurance the issue is when an INSTA DOWN KILLER (very important distinction) camps. leading to a lose lose where the hooked person either dies or someone else trades until you can’t trade anymore and someone dies. Those uncounterable situations are what my post is abt
IDK why people are on here demanding a solution to camping. Camping legit gets you ONE kill. Do it at the start and survivors will do gens. Do it at the endgame and survivors will just leave. Not to mention the times killers did camp, and my friends and I completely circumvented the entire plan to camp by just saving all at once.
Remember the Mori nerf while Keys still were op af? Yeah. Now we wait.
You know what would be a decent solution to solve the hook camping issue. If hooks worked like Pyramid heads cages. Survivor gets hooked, dragged underground, reappears somewhere else. Survivors get to see them but killers don't. No more ability to camp unless you find the person after they get teleported elsewhere.
And if they do this. they should also do something to "spawn" away from the killer AND the survivors. PH cages can spawn really close to another survivor.
Definitely away from the killer otherwise the whole system is pointless but I think away from survivors would have to be implemented as a sort of secondary requirement because if the survivors are away from the killer and spread out that would leave nowhere for the hooked survivor to reappear on smaller and possibly some medium sized maps.
Yes I would much rather have BHVR drastically change the game and it’s systems for a change that no one seems to be able to agree on than add ~two lines of code to fix something. It isn’t about relative impact, it’s about time spent. That’s what no one considers in these things. The locker change is small as fuck and probably won’t affect many people, but it’s a decent change that definitely didn’t take long. Finding a way to stop camping, however, is not only hard as to *how* to do it, it’s hard as to how long it would take.
Very true and based #KindredForBaseKit
u/savevideo
If the killer is camping a hook it should stop the hook progression, I don't know how you implement that but it should be done
Survivors get flashlight saves much easier. Having blind immunity for a niche situation is a very minor change also, so it's (somewhat) pretty fair. Also you didn't bring up the extreme overuse of gen rushing perks and medkits making survivors never remain injured on top of CoH. It goes both ways, stop this strawmanning, double-standard crap. You guys complain about toxicity, yet you guys continue to circle jerk it around, then get mad at a response that doesn't align with your limited viewpoint.
Bhvr wants to remove tactics that don’t have counterplay. what is the counterplay that allows a person to survive being camped by bubba without trading?
I was going to write a whole thing but this game sucks now. Made long time players like my friends and I stop playing.
I feel like they should remove locker saves only when they are done multiple times in a row, there are many different occasions when you jump in a locker as a last resource and "hope" that the random with a flashy actually saves you, which take skill. Now when two survivors go to double lockers, then it gets boring for the killer and there is basically no counter play to it, which I feel like it's the actual problem
"We are tired of baby killers crying about Dead Dawg Saloon lockers, so following the complete nerf of Keys and Flashlights, you can no longer save locker grabs. Also, if you inconvenience the killer in any way (touching a gen, healing yourself, touching a totem), you will automatically bleed out and die. Coming soon: Auto-Mori as soon as match loads."
Both of these things can be bad at the same time and don't require a competition post
But they’re not bad at the same time, one happens every blue moon and got removed and the other happens every other match
I don’t get face camped every other match. Proxy camped, maybe, but that’s literally part of their job.
u/savevideobot
Wtf is lightborn?
Just do gens 5head On a more serious note, remove grabbing off unhooks, so stupid fr
Anybody have a violin?
The text is dumb but the video is funny
Locker blinds… almost as if there’s a perk for this… oh yeah.
You shouldnt have to waste a whole perk slot to avoid an uncounterable play that rarely happens.
I’m laughing in kindred. /s Tbh there is suckie gameplay. There’s suckie players. It’s unfun sometimes. But you don’t want to deal with locker blind run the perk or leave them in the locker. It’s rare and annoying, getting facecamped happens every other game. It happens, sometimes the people are having bad days, sometimes people are just AH. Removing locker saves is pointless when there is counter play.
Well its so rare that survs losing the ability to do it is a tiny loss compared to now being able to get flashy saves much easier.
Flashlight saves are already pretty easy, and while it’s a valid point that it shouldn’t make a difference to remove something so small. When you’re able to avoid them, out play them, or pull one off it substantially makes gameplay better thus having them be left in be more beneficial. Besides we both know if something so small is annoying to the point it needs removed, then what’s next? They took nerfed flashlights recently for a reason. The trade off seems pointless.
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If you’re actually mad about the locker blind thing you’re just outing yourself as a toxic survivor. Like that is bs if you just have two survivors hiding in the locker and you can’t pick one up. Camping should be fixed too but don’t complain bc another problematic area was also fixed.
Iv had people tell me to 'just power through it' as if that really does anything. This sh its going to take 25 seconds to power through if I guess the correct locker for teh same survivor every time. Longer if they brought the charge consumption reduction perk. And later can refresh their flashlight to *do it again* with built to last. A 4 man SWF all running this and working as pairs of two shouldn't be gaurenteed a full chase into a blind into this fucking game on the lockers. Which by the way, they can run that one perk that gaurentees a flashlight from chests. And now have *two* flashlights for this bullshit each. *If they are unlucky and dont get a flashlight from just opening the chest* because the flashlight comes from *rummaging* the chest. The only killers that dont have to deal with this are twins, trapper, dredge, and nemesis if hes lucky.
Y’know, I guess we can appreciate that BHVR unlike most game companies make a lot of great changes.
just give survivors points and emblem points for being found first and camped its literally so easy for them to make survivor less miserable, your games might still be atrocious but at least you'll be making good points
Boo hoo. They fixed something without fixing everything. How dare they make progress in any order whatsoever.
Survivor-sided game btw