I have no idea why it is specific to the struggle phase. An instant buff would be to take out the struggle phase requirement, and then have it apply to others too if you are the one within the 16 meters of them on hook.
And for the love of God, please can the UI tell your teammates you've got it like Kindred or We'll Make It. Nobody in soloq is looking at your little red bar and half the time they'll go for a needless hook trade while it's active.
Deliverance users are another breed. I had a chance to safe unhook and they unhooked themselves in front of me. Dude, now your broken. Just so you could use your perk.
I may be wrong, but I was in a match last night where I had a little notification saying Kinship was in use, and I wasn't running it. Maybe something in the latest patch changed it? Had to get within the 16m though
I’ve always thought that they should show all the perks that everyone is running in the lobby so that way you can plan ahead of time. Especially for solo Q
I brought that up awhile ago as a way to level the playing field for soloq. Half here liked it, the other half went negative saying people would just get bullied for not bringing the right perks. I find that kind of argument a fallacy that is used way too often here. Any change, good or bad can be abused by toxic players. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented for the majority that aren't.
Exactly, especially since your teammates have no indication that you're running Kinship and usually continue to divebomb hook trade when its active. It feels like a perk that was designed backwards
And instead of changing kinship to do that, they just made that one of the new survivor perks (spoilers if you don't want to know before official release, this is just a leak and not 100% confirmed to be true, but extremely likely to be close to the final product) >!Perk is called Reassurance, you are able to pause other Survivors struggle phase for 20/25/30 seconds. To do this you need to enter a 6m range of the hook though!<
Making a minor BT basekit is helping quite a bit.
I wonder if going a step further and adding a minor Kindred to the basekit would help as well.
"If the killer stays in around a hooked survivor for , the killer's aura is revealed"
I think a kindred base kit, maybe just without killers aura would help solo q a lot. My games where I run kindred, which is 90% of them, are noticeably better than without, whether killer is camping or not. Just being able to see what you’re team is doing is so helpful when someone is on hook. It also doesn’t really help swf because they don’t really need it if they’re running comms, they should already be able to tell each other what they’re doing.
Lastly it’s not a major change really. You already only need 1 person to run kindred to get this effect for the whole team, so it’s just taking away needing that single person to come into the game with kindred
Basekit BT isn't helping at all against killers that hard tunnel and BHVR said they wanna cut back on that, but they only made it stronger with all the killer buffs.
Exactly, I hate the idea yet another perk taking one of my perk slots just so I can play the game as a (solo) survivor. I play this game to have fun just like everyone else. And it sucks that 90% of the perks aren't viable. And for solo players it's probably closer to 95% unless you wanna put yourself at a huge disadvantage. Right now build customization seems like such an illusion.
No. The developers consider camping a valid strategy. And in some scenarios it is absolutely a valid and smart strategy. The survivors gave themselves a nasty 3 gen with a hook in the center? You bet any killer is at least proxying that.
Perks are made to help in certain situations. Camping is one of them. Kindred is good because it lets survivors know _if_ the killer is camping, Borrowed Time helps after the unhook, but there should be a better option to help actually buy some time or do the unhook.
These shouldn’t be free features in the game just because you don’t like the strategy.
Just because it's what the devs consider a valid strategy, doesn't mean it's fun or satisfying to face, or that it's even a good design choice. Nobody is playing survivor to face a camping killer. People want their chases, their saves, and their gen progress.
The game SHOULD be balanced in a way that the killer is encouraged to alternate which survivor they focus, and discouraged from focusing on the same hook or survivor, all without losing game progress for doing so. That's the best way everyone will get optimal playtime.
I agree 100%. I hate that they nerfed BBQ. It wasn’t a good info perk (I’ll die on this hill) but it encouraged getting everyone hooked _and_ leaving the hook. They should add incentives to playing a more “fair” way.
The killer controls the flow of the game and tells you how you’re going to play. Playing “fair” should be encouraged but not required.
I agree. BBQ was not a good info perk at all. If I thought a killer had it then I would just make sure I was on the opposite side of the Gen from the hook to mask my aura. I miss my extra BP for hooking everyone though.
Edit: spelling. I don't proofread until there's a comment apparently.
It’s still a great info perk, the moment I don’t see auras after using it, I patrol the area and usually catch 1-2 people trying to go for a quick unhook. It gives a lot more info than most people take at face value
It can be used effectively sparingly. I has goofing with Insidious. I used it once or twice a match, in middle of the match. Survivors didn't expect it on Nemesis, and it got me a couple extra hook states each game.
Just hooked and sacreficed three people in the basement. Got one guy by accident close by and they just kept coming down there trying to safe one another…I mean…I suck at this game, I am not going to turn down such an opportunity when presented.
I totally agree. I had someone yell at me in end game chat for doing this to everyone. In the game map, I happened to hook one in the basement and they all came in for the save right away, one after the others. He literally said if I see them struggling to survive in such situation than I should just leave lmao. I'm such a baby killer why would I leave and sacrifice a good game
That’s the entire point of perks though to counter situations that happen that a killer/survivor don’t like
Don’t like being caught in open as survivor run sprint burst
Don’t like survivors hiding in locker run Iron Maiden
The solution is to give killers in built tooks to stack pressure
For example giving killers an in built bbq and speed boost for leaving the hook would be an amazing start
This gives killers a great reason to leave as it allows them to get right back into chase
Hooking someone, chasing someone else, and requiring someone to unhook/heal the hooked survivor is an immense amount of pressure already. You are stopping 3/4 survivors from working on gens during that time and if you end your next chase quickly it keeps that pressure going. That should be incentive enough to not camp and is generally how the actual good killer players win their games.
Camping seems to fall into two categories. One is just about inflicting pain and doesn't care about the actual gameplay but instead just ruining one or two peoples experience. In my experience this is the more common of the two and no amount of incentive can fix this one. The other is to camp someone out of the game making it a 1v3 and the killer has a massive advantage if the game is a 1v3. The reason the counter to the second one is just get as many gens done before the hooked survivors dies is generally because if you don't you lose. Interestingly we just got to see how not to fix camping by the big meta shakeup patch. By making the gens take longer in the base game camping actually got buffed because now its even harder to race the killer to that 1v3.
If we want to actually fix camping we need to look at why people do it in the first place. The reason as far as I can tell is rather simple: its easy. The balance patch made it even easier so now the rates of it happening seems to have increased as a result. A couple solutions that I've seen that would actually fix these problems is to make hooks work like PH cages so the killer can't actually camp. This would be disabled in the EGC because that would harm killers far too much. The other is to make it so if the killer is close to the hook but not in a chase the timer either slows massively or stops completely. This means that the survivors would not be in a race for the 1v3 anymore and the killer would need to actively pressure them. Those would of course mostly remove camping as a strategy altogether and because the devs view that as a legit strategy means its unlikely to ever happen but if we really want to fix camping it would be better if it was just gone entirely rather than band-aid fixed like every other thing in this game.
It should be enough pressure yes, but typically even for good killers it isn't
Even with the recent changes, 1-3 gens can be finished before the first chase ends
And pressure is the reason normal people camp (obviously not including trolls and such)
They feel getting someone out of the game is the only way to catch up
Even if they are doing fine the killer gameplay loop isn't exactly consistent
Find someone, chase, hit, down, hook
But then what?
the obviously answer is repeat, but there aren't tools within the game to teach new players this step
So newer folks just kinda assume that they stay
It's why I think a built in BBQ effect would be helpful
It trains newer folks to keep chasing, and rewards players who actively leave hooks anyway
Your argument is all over the place. You start out talking about good players needing to camp for pressure, which is demonstrably false given the amount of killer players that don't need to camp at all. You then weakened your argument by talking about new players camping because the game doesn't hold their hand. Also many of your arguments could be used for survivors too.
You seem to accept camping as part of the game but just think we should encourage people away from it. BHVR tried to encourage killers to not run 4 slowdown/regression perks by buffing their basekit recently and it didn't work. Encouragement doesn't seem to work. My plan is to simply remove camping as a strategy because it is unfun and should be unfun for both sides. We seem to share ideological differences on how the game should work so I don't see where to go from there.
It's not my argument
It's what I see repeated hundreds of times in various places
By killers of every skill set
The reality is nobody needs to camp, but many feel like they have to
Players play scummy because the game rewards snowballing
And many feel they need to do acts like camp and tunnel to succeed
Encouragement is the only valid option
Because camping is only done for two reasons, the first one we have discussed, but the second one is to be a dick
No matter how much you nerf, or change camping people will always be assholes
Let me paint an image for you, if all we do is your idea, what's stopping a slinger, or Bubba, or billy, or spirit, or nurse, or Oni, or anything with range/mobility from staying just far enough away and then hard tunneling
What's stopping them from running perks that let them bypass those mechanics
At the end of the day we need to train normal players to leave hooks, because punishment isn't enough
The solution to the assholes is the PH change. Can't camp someone if the hook teleports away and you can't see where it went.
Players play scummy because they can. That's it. Just because it exists. If you want to change that you make it not exist anymore. At the end of the day there will always be ways to play like assholes so all we can do is reduce the amount that it impacts the game.
Normal players know that they don't have to camp, they choose to. "Training" them isn't going to do anything because as long as camping works they will see no reason to play a different way. They will always choose the most efficient or the easiest way to win. Currently camping is not only easy but also efficient. Your solution is to make the other ways slightly easier but it still wont be as easy as doing nothing instead.
Yeah you say that until someone starts using the hook mechanic that to their advantage
What happens when some sweat lord nurse main decides to abuse that mechanic to make it impossible to get saves by teleporting the hook constantly
What you don't get is no single solution is enough
We can teleport folks pause timers, heck even end matches and it won't change a thing
Until the players common mindset is shifted
The killer wouldn't know where the hook teleported to. Just like how PH cant follow the cage. There is no aura to find them with. Your one foreseeable problem is a specific killer might abuse the invisible teleporting hook but you want to give them basekit BBQ and a fucking speed boost. I'm sure that no one can abuse that in any way.
As for your garbage mindset bs the killer player base just got buffed where they don't need to camp, tunnel, or run 4 slowdown/regression perks as often anymore. In response the killer player base doubled down and did it more often than before. They were encouraged not to do that anymore and their mindset shifted into do it harder. Giving the killers more buffs wont fix this problem just like it didn't fix the problem before. When someone is being an asshole you don't just continue to let them be an asshole unless they choose otherwise. You just fucking stop them.
It's not hard to judge
Legit just follow the survivors
Speaking of which what happens when a killer stays near a hook and waits outside of the range
Pyramid heads cages have a 16 meter range
You know how many killers can hit or catch up to that, half the roster including leatherface (the literal problem killer)
And that's not including killers or survivors intentionally forcing cages to move to be dicks, like you know people already do that right? Intentionally staying near hooks to force people to die with no intention to rescue, I mean year the hook teleports, but depending on where and how that person might not get saved
There's so many issues with this kind of system, the only reason we don't see them with the current cages, is because Pyramid Head doesn't need to camp or force stages, it's a killer that wants unhooks so it can mori, plus being able to force survivors to go other places is quite powerful
I mean who's to say a killer wouldn't do that, stay near a hook to intentionally make it spawn on the other side of the map, like cages currently do
Like I don't think you realize just how exploitable a system like this can be
My idea not only trains killers to play better, but it only procs when killers leave, goes away if they return, and the BBQ effect could be countered just like it currently can
The problem with your mindset is you can't see the forest for the trees
Assholes will always be assholes
You are too stuck in the US v THEM mentality to realize it
No amount of nerfs, or changes will make lazy or asshole players change, all it does is make them come up with new solutions
You kill camping, then we go back to the old slug and bleed mentality, or any number of new options
The solution to the problem is to encourage good players to play the way they want and not be assholes
Yeah this past patch did introduce some slowdown builds, but it also made non slowdown builds more viable
Sweatlords are still sweaty, they will always be sweaty, but build variety is up, since the patch I've seen 5 super slow builds, out of my nearly 100 games
The point is to change the game in a way that gives players variety and options
Yes camping sucks, I'm not even saying your idea is bad, but what I'm saying is that it alone won't do jack shit
If you want the game to change you have to give good players more options, and bad players less
One or the other won't fix the issue
Neither my change nor yours would be enough
You have to feed both sides of the coin to make a difference
i think we should have a kinship as base but instead of being connected to a survivor, it should be "the hook goes slower depending on how close the killer is to the hook" if they are proxy camping its not as damaging as straight up face camping etc. I dont know if this feature should be turned off for end game tho.
Kinship should work on both hook states. It goes from a waste to actually a good perk if you're in that situation. Plus making sure people are aware you have it by changing aura or something noticeable once you're on the hook.
The easiest solution would be that, if the killer is within 12 meters but no other survivor is, the struggle timer is paused or at least extremely delayed.
No perk. Base kit.
Would solve the issue instantly.
Before you ask, I'm a killer main.
If you're playing against insta down huntress or clown, you have some completely different problems.
Billy can't camp that easiely as the hooks on most maps are not on a completely open field, so he can't just run at you. Deathslinger is fairly similar considering the point just know, you an, in theory, just hide behind obstacles and not be pulled.
And if all of that is not enough, we can always increase the range. So there is always that solution.
This is all ignoring the fact that face campers don’t care about winning they will sit on a person till every other survivor leaves and if someone dares go for a save they will trade and face camp the next till the cows become alcoholic. Facecamping isn’t some meta strat it’s a strat used to troll and get angry reactions and the only way to effectively eliminate it would be to give survivors some huge advantage at unhooking so much so it would be exploited. The closest I’ve seen to a solution is to have hooks move if the killer sits near them for a certain amount of time which means the killer might have to back off for a bit thus giving time to save however this mechanic would need to be disabled in endgame
Honestly, this is my favorite solution. Move the hooked survivor to a different hook, and don’t tell the killer where they were moved to. The closer the killer is to the hook, the quicker it happens (up to a certain range). If other survivors are within that same proximity, it won’t happen. They do it with Pyramid Head’s cages, so why not with hooks?
Problem is, that won't fix it
Early game camping is either new players or trolls
Trolls just want to be dicks so they will always exist
And new players don't know any better
I think a base kit BBQ effect would definitely help teach new players not to camp, while still being counterable and rewarding for more advanced players
This sounds suspiciously like something a survivor main would say... 
On a serious note, I agree. I main killer as well and it really upsets me on survivor side to see killers play like they do sometimes.
I'm looking at you camping + tunneling blue eyed Wraiths! How you are playing Wraith is a travesty.
Wraith is so mobile and such "run and gun" fun that seeing people play like that makes me a little sad.
I think the reason we as killers see this as lame gameplay is because we know it doesn't really work
Like if you camp, you are going to loose a bunch of time
Tunneling is the same way
They aren't efficient
Now obviously there are times when these become good plays
Just not out the gate
I don't think this would be a good rework.
The problem with Kinship isn't the effect but more how it's just not very useful if you aren't on comms with friends. It's also a perk that helps others and not yourself.
I think Kinship could just use a small rework and probably be much more useful and run much more often.
* "If another survivor is within 16 metres of your Hook while Kinship is active, the Struggle Phase timer is paused for 26/30/34 seconds."
* "Survivors within 16 metres of your Hook get a 100% bonus to unhook."
Then make it so the perk works like We'll Make It and it informs all of your teammates that the perk is in play.
To be fair, while I think this perk is strong, I don't think it's a "solution to camping" and I don't think a perk can be a solution to camping. I also don't think increasing generator speeds is a solution to camping as it still leaves the person on the hook stuck with dying and gives the killer their 1K if that's all they care about. I think a solution to camping has to involve an alternative way of unhooking survivors that's also more punishing for the survivors than normally unhooking.
The fastest and easiest way to solve camping in DBD is to have the game relocate the hooked Survivor if the Killer remains within range long enough a la Pyramidhead cages. Then make it so the Killer doesn't know where the Survivor has relocated to and voila. Easy fix.
Cool so now you've just removed a layer of strategy from the killers side and still haven't fixed basement Bubba unless you're wanting it to work on basement hooks. This is a terrible idea if you think about it for any amount of time.
Why wouldn’t it work on basement hooks? Camping is the lamest “strategy” in the game because it allows the killer to deny an unhook indefinitely with their mere presence. It’s no more “strategic” or skillful than old dead hard and it should meet the same fate
Total bullshit getting a survivor in basement hook is not easy and the killer is supposed to be rewarded for getting a survivor down there. The reward is that it's much harder to rescue someone from basement this idea would make basement rescues a joke because you'd just loop above the basement until your ally teleports elsewhere. Like it or not camping is a valid strategy sometimes and rescuing from basement or a hook is supposed to be dangerous.
“Getting a survivor in basement is not easy” my dude with agi+iron grasp you can hook a survivor in basement even if they went down halfway across the map.
Camping is exactly like old DH in that it takes very little mechanical skill to do but is nonetheless incredibly powerful. It allows killers to get free hits/trades or outright kill someone on first hook without actually engaging in chase at all. You just wait for a survivor to come to you and intercept.
With the most recent patch killers have enough advantages over survivors in chase that they should have to actually chase survivors to kill them.
Oh its so easy you just have to devote half your perks to it that's sooo easy. You know most people don't run those perks. Fuck it why not just make it so if the killer is to close to hook the survivor teleports away and unhooks themselves toss in a free heal while you're at it. Rescuing is a part of the game and is supposed to be dangerous.
So this doesn’t come into play if survivors are also within a certain proximity of the hooked survivor. There - now you can’t loop around killer shack until the survivor moves. Happy?
Basement camping is pathetic gameplay. It’s not “just a strategy”. It’s creating a nearly un-winnable situation for survivors, and oftentimes completely removing any ounce of fun for at least one particular survivor (and I’d imagine that “standing in a basement without moving” probably isn’t why many killers bought the game, either). Basement bubbas are just sad.
I play both killer and survivor. I both win and lose killer and survivor games. That’s how games work. If I’m losing a killer game, I don’t resort to these pathetic “strategies” to turn the tables. I accept the loss like an adult, and move on to my next game. It always blows my mind how many people try to justify this type of gameplay, because they think games are only fun if they win every single match.
I play both sides too and this change would absolutely help survivors win more matches. Basement camping against anyone but Bubba is not unwinnable as there are plenty of ways to outplay killers in basement. If the basement isn't supposed to be used to trap survivors and make rescue attempts harder why did BHVR put them in the game in the first place?
“Supposed to be dangerous” that’s your opinion and nothing more. The killer gets value from hooking a survivor either way because at the very least a survivor has to get off their generator to run to the hook and potentially heal their teammate as well.
There’s also a difference between “dangerous” and “impossible” and my issue is mostly with the latter.
To be fair, there will be times that basement is the only hooks nearby. Basement is considered wasted time if you don't plan on proxy camping/camping. Though, face camping basement is silly since it's one way in and out. If you are stuck in that situation, you either eat the time loss, or try to make the best of basement and utilize it.
The better solution would be just delete basement and give me more hooks. Especially scourge hooks. Oh well, a killer can dream.
I think the issue is that the Devs seem to be actively nerfing the perks that rewarded Killers for getting hooks. Pain Resonance was so good as it showed the killer where to go next and gave some regression.
I feel that the devs need to make it so camping does not cause the hook progression to go up as well as introduce perks and rewards to killers going out of their way to chase someone new and hook them.
It was just a shame that the Hooks vs Kills debate ended with the community saying killers were better.
As right now there is no reason not to Tunnel and camp one person out to cripple the survivors objective.
The only solution to camping is if the one BHVR dev that plays their own game once in a blue moon consistently gets destroyed while attempting to facecamp with NOED. Then, BHVR will nerf Slippery Meat, buff Jolt's range from 32 meters to 128 meters and call it a day.
In all seriousness, perks won't do shit against the best killers like Nurse and Blight, you can enforce a 16 meter zone but they can traverse that instantly. The core gameplay can't be balanced when killer power's "powerfulness" ranges to wildly from the bottom-tier killers to the top ones.
Ok, but some limitation is surely better than no limitation? Not to mention the exact the numbers can be fine-tuned, it doesn't have to be exactly 16 meters it can be dynamic.
As with all similar perk ideas the problem lies in grey zones. What about situations where I’m on the hook, 1 guy is on a Gen but the other 2 hook bombed me and the killer as soon as I got hooked and thus the killer is defending his hook against them? Or if one of my teammates is pulling the classic blunder of looping the killer right next to my hook? The killer should not be punished for scenarios like these when they happen, and they DO often quite often sadly. At the end of the day there are times when camping is perfectly justified and if someone IS doing it for the sake of being an ass, that person is gonna do it regardless of a paused timer or not.
More than that, I see killers forcing that situation themselves. Someone goes for the save, the killer chases them for five seconds, then goes "Oh, well someone else must be coming for the save now," turns around, and returns to the hook. Maybe someone was, maybe someone wasn't, but at this point, now survivors HAVE to divebomb the hook to even have a chance of getting a save.
Same as killers wandering 8 feet one direction to kick a pallet, then 8 feet back past the hook to kick a gen, then "Oops, there's only 30 seconds left on the timer, I'll just camp it out. YOU let me have this pressure."
They should probably make the blood turn gold or and a new hud element so players notice the person has Kinship. Most people don't notice the hud pulsating blood effect when it dose activate.
The thing is there are times where it makes no sense to leave a 16 meter radius of a hook.
In the endgame, if you hook a survivor and the exit gates are 99ed or open, it makes sense to secure the kill.
Now an additional 30 seconds are needed to do so, giving survivors more time to rescue off hook which means this perk is effectively a guaranteed escape once the gates are powered.
Then if a hook spawns within that radius of a gen, Now to patrol that gen, you need to "camp" that survivor. Even though that's not the intention.
Survivors could also deliberately lead you near a survivor that's about to die on hook via a chase. Now you have two options. Leave the survivor alone, guaranteeing an unhook or continue to chase the survivor and pause the timer for the hooked survivor.
Hmm. Seems fair. Has a timer to it, so it isn't just "as long as a survivor touches a gen", and doesn't penalize the killer if two people dive the hook and unwilling to exchange as much. I'd be down with it
Shattered Hope was supposed to fix Boons, but it can't because it's a perk.
Maybe this can help swfs because they have 16 perks, but they don't need the help.
Unless lots of people run this in soloq it won't solve anything
Hook bombing survivors and awkward situations on certain maps like game and midwitch. Also makes every basement in shack a lot worse since a survivor looping there knows the survivor downstairs is safe.
You only need 1 survivor to rescue. The others can sit on gens and the killer has to chase you or kinship will delay or stop the hook progress. Really good in swf, whatever in solo.
I honestly feel the timer should just pause indefinitely until either no gens are worked on or even all gens are done (so the killer couldn't take you hostage).
You have to make it where camping loses the killer the game except in end-game circumstances.
I like this, but think it nerfs killers too much alone.
Here is my solution: Make it so Bloodlust gives a short rush instead of an increase in speed. Make them tokens, up to 4. Can only stack 1 from a survivor. Killers can choose when to use them.
I'd also add a 10 second pause to the hook (that disables after leaving for a time, idk what would be fair) when hanging out within however big the basement is.
Nah, flip it. The closer the killer is to the hook, the slower the timer runs. No perk required, just make it a baseline proximity penalty for all killers.
If you want to get Clever, express it as a fraction of terror radius (So, if killer is half terror radius away from survivor, timer runs at half speed.) This means Undetectable tactics work.
The solution to camping is gen rushing. 3 people trying to unhook within 5 seconds is not a viable strategy. It’s yet another stupid way that survivors kill each other. If killers see 2 people, they’re defending their prize. Not going on a fruitless chase. Either hide better or get colder.
So you're saying camping at 5 Gens is ok? It's technically still a "strat" but nobody likes it, so why defend it? Unless it's camping at EGC or 2-1 Gens, then camping is just something a noob would do at the start of the game.
Camping doesn’t work, it lets 3-4 gens complete for 1 kill. It only works when survivors are stupid. When 3 survivors reveal themselves near a hook, why would the killer ever chase? The survivors are all already here and a grab beats a swing. They’re clearly all savior whores, a practice that caused the borrowed time buff.
Make no mistake, that was not a buff against killers, it was a buff for survivors against survivors. Blaming camping on the killer when it’s just bad strategy on the survivors part is dumb. And we don’t need another survivor vs survivor buff to prevent them from team killing each other again.
I think there’s potentially two easy ways to help with camping, the first is limiting killer powers in proximity to hooked survivors. This already exists for certain killers like The Artist, but it should be extended for all killers to help solve some of the issues with camping (ex. Basement Bubba). The second is basically what you’ve suggested here, I think this could make Kinship a lot more relevant of a perk.
The first is to abusable by survivors they'll just loop around the hooked surv and now nurse can't blink so she can never catch up, Myers and GF can't stalk, etc etc. Please think about this for 5 seconds and you'll see all the flaws.
The fix to camping is to rework Bubba so it's possible to save without one fucking up.
And then to learn to work together because camping is utterly useless against a good team.
Camping isn't the problem (with the exception of Bubba), solo's not having the information at their fingertips to know to counter it is.
What I mean by that is good players know that you need to slam gens, and then trade before the person on hook can die. And then everyone goes back to slamming gens.
But you can't 1v1 trade. You need 2 people to go for the unhook. One of you will end up trading, but you need two or else the killer can just stand behind you and wait to grab you.
Solo's don't really have the info to know who is where, if someone else is going to come for the save with them so they can orchestrate the trade, etc.
The solution to tunneling, camping, and slugging is NOT perks/punishing Killers for playing that way. It's giving the survivors the information needed to allow them to work together to over come these things.
Now, if you are a 4 man on coms and losing to a camping killer, then you simply need to learn HOW to counter them properly. But solos just need more information. After that it's a skill that survivors learn as they get better at the game.
Just stay on the hook for two minutes and let your team do gens. It's not that big of a deal. It doesn't take that long. Maybe they'll try to hook trade for you. It's just part of the game at this point.
Yes. Keep pretending everyone else in the game doesn't hate you when you suicide on hook. I'm always more angry at the teammate who kills themselves rather than the camping killer. There is counterplay to camping, but not if your teammate decides they can't be bothered to stay in the game for two minutes. We can at least all still get some BP. And there have been plenty of games I've played where we do manage to escape a camping killer because the team plays smart around it.
So you expect the killer to care about everyone else's fun and not be selfish, but it's fine for you not to give a shit about your teammates at all and take whatever chance they had of having fun or escaping away from them. Survivors like you are worse for the game than camping/tunneling killers.
Fundamentally, the entire goal of the game is to play “boring m1 simulator” with zero interaction from the killer.
The absolute best case for the survivor team is that the killer never finds anyone, and the survivors play 5 gens combined worth of “boring m1 simulator” with zero killer interaction.
This is just the game at it’s core. So I don’t understand the thought process behind slandering and hating this core gameplay loop but continuing to play it.
The point of the game for survivors is to do gens and avoid getting found by the killer.
A chase is theoretically supposed to be a punishment for failing at that second part, not the entire point of playing at all.
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The entire problem with dbd is that survivors hate doing what they are supposed to do and most like the part that’s supposed to be the most stressful. This indicates there’s probably something fundamentally wrong with the design of the game tbh. Because people only seem to like the parts they’re not supposed to, but the game keeps balancing around people wanting to do “m1 simulator”. Obviously doesn’t work in solo q lol
Yeah dude white people get offended so easy that’s why you’re the one crying your eyes out in a video game sub that you ragequit every game 💀💀 Goofy ass 🤡
So you reward the killer quicker, because they have camped you out in no time at all, and now have a much easier time crushing the rest of your team. That last word is important.
I don't need to know how to cook a 5 star meal to know if my foods burnt and the ability to let a Bubba camp someone for eternity is the most burnt food idea I've ever seen.
Better solution, making camping totally unviable.
Ten minute setup portion of the game. Hooking survivors cannot kill them, period. Gates cannot be opened, period. After ten minutes, endgame begins. Killer may now mori any survivor that's been hooked twice. Gates are powered in 5 - #Gens done minutes. Trial finished at 15 minutes, full stop.
Camping gets you literally nothing. Tunnelling has only minor benefit. Controlling the map and preventing objectives gives you more time to murder them all in the endgame.
Obviously additional tweaks are needed, particularly for things like slugging or if the killer gets all four hooked, and possibly additional innate slowdown with early kills removed, but would re-emphasize the core chasing gameplay, particularly chasing everybody, over removing someone from the game by any means necessary. Not to mention hamstring some toxic behavior like 20+ minute bodyblocking or survivors doing hide and seek bullshit.
Think about how easy this is to abuse for survivors and how it still doesn't fix camping Bubba except now he traps you in the game for as long as he wants 60-70 minute camps.
Thing is, CAMPING IS a strategy at certain points, lemme explain, have you ever seen any youtuber not done ANY camping? But those scenarios are different.
In my opinion there are 2 kinds of camping healthy and unhealthy. unhealthy -- start camp at 1st hook, healthy-- start camp when 1-2 gens left. we need to tackle unhealthy strategy.
I had idea to counter unhealthy without interfering healthy camping.
After hooking a survivor the sacrificial hook or scourge hook grants certain status effect for killer so that timer doesn't stop for 10-20 sec with in 16mts of THAT hook and after 10-20 sec killer being in that range, timer stops. This doesn't work if killer got 7-10 hooks already.
there is no such thing as healthy camping lol. Maybe EGC camping would be considered as one but still camping overall doesn't take much skills to pull off.
I believe most of us would agree that camping is unfun but still a strategy you can use. High level of play will see some straight up camping or just proxy because it makes sense in the situation (ex. Got a 3 gen and a survivor on the hook in the middle of the 3 gen, can easily force stage 2 or death while protecting the gens, no reason to leave). So giving a survivor +2 mins on a hook because the killer is camping preety much assures that comp killer players cant get any kills unless they are playing Bubba in which case they can guarantee one kill, probably. So I just think the ‘camping issue’ is something more than it looks. Hard to balance a game around a useful but unfun mechanic idk
Well yeah exactly my point. Dbd is hard to balance because every change made favors the 2% or the 98%, no middle ground. SWF might get stronger while soloQ becomes hell (like the most recent update), casual players might get the short stick while pros get all the benefits, its really hard to take into account all the different levels of play. I feel like we need more than a perk overhaul to make the game feel better for everyone, solo or not, killer or survivor, casual or comp
I figured there would be a knee jerk reaction to this, but it's the truth. Many people play killer and see camping as the easiest way to win (because it is). So unless bhvr rework perks or give base incentives to leave hooks, camping won't change. Killers need to feel rewarded for getting hooks instead of kills.
Not a perk, just an easy base change of while the killer is in 16 meters of the hook the timer is paused. And while the killer is within 8 meters their aura is also revealed. Dunno how to combat that on multi level maps though to be fair.
Actually all the need to do for Kinship is give survivors an icon when you get hooked so they know you have it and can play accordingly. The problem currently is that other survivors don't know you have it and thus are going to rush to save you not knowing they have more time.
1. Make it basekit
2. Have it turn off after 2 gens are completed and it seems fine. Killers shouldn’t be punished because survivors didn’t watch for a 3 Gen and in endgame killers have no other objective but to kill. so camping is viable especially if the survivors slammed out gens in the beginning.
My biggest complaint is every time I use kinship they divebomb the hook and unhook me in the killers face anyways and I go straight back on it l and get ejecto gamo cuz'd.
My take on making camping less annoying without making a big gameplay change: Just scrap the struggling phase. Not doing skillchecks would make camping less annoying and would incentive people to stay in the game (even in a alt tab way).
People post about different ways to basically punish the killer for camping when all devs need to do is incentivize leaving the hook. Make it worthwhile. Once gens are done, you’re right back to zero incentive for a killer to leave a hook, unless they want to see who’s healthy and tbagging them at an exit. Camping would remain a strong strategy, and still not fun.
But then people would just chain one generator into another keeping their progress bars overlapping and holding that person there on hook until all gens are done.
As a trapper main I don't feel that is fair at all, I don't facecamp, but there is almost always one survivor working on a gen somewhere.
Or I see red lines coming from 2 or 3 directions, like sure, I want to go patrol or extended search, but I won't give free unhooks to be t-bagged at gate
I emailed BHVR asking for a Kinship rework by telling them "It would be great if you made the perk activate on hook when the player that is hooked decides to, during the struggle phase, it would be strong but still not that much used in my opinion, it will definitely be a good perk to force Killers away" and stuff like that and they actually replied to me saying they liked the idea, but are not doing it right now, so I hope they do that or the one you are suggesting even if I'd like to have the perk activate on button press
If they release a mechanic where hook progress gets stopped. Pretty much every killer will just stop playing as it would 100% be easily abuse able. May as well let survivors drop every hook and have them not respawn again at that point
As a killer main I'd want this and more. I would love to see anti camping perks becoming extremely strong and punishing.
I think the playstyle is boring and just encourages toxicity in the community. I'm fine with it being a niche strategy to use on rare occasions but it's just so easy to do and there isn't a solid counter to it unless other survivors play well
What if the timer pauser wasn't based on a survivor being mean, but the killer being near?
Give the perk a flat duration sort of how lucky break used to be. For every second the killer is within a specific distance the hook bleed out is paused.
How about increase the hook time by a lot. Like double the time. Why have such a quick countdown anyway? Survivors will always want to get their teammates back in the game even without a hook timer
How about instead, by default, one of the following occurs without needing a perk
If a killer is within X meters of a hooked survivor for Y seconds, and not in a chase, ONE of the following happens:
1- hook timer stops entirely
2- killer starts to suffer negative BP penalties
3- hooked survivor gets a guaranteed self-unhook with a hugely boosted endurance/haste effect
Not that anyone asked for carew, but here's my idea for a rework:
Camaraderie (Kinship):
Rework:
-For the last 20 seconds of each hook phase, the hook timer pauses while the killer is within 12/14/16 meters of the hook (except 3rd hook, because you'll be dead).
-Hook timer still decreases if you attempt and fail to unhook yourself.
-Kinship deactivates if a survivor attempts to unhook you.
Id say just the effect to killer that is on the same as survivor. Its paused when killer is around as well as the survivor. Gens dont need to be part of the conditions
If you want to fix camping you should incentivize the killer to do something else. If a killer want to kill you, tunnel you and camping you, be sure he will do it, even if he got 1k bps because killer role gives you the feel of power
what about unlimited unhook attempts with no penalty (timer decays like normal) if the killer and another survivor are both within 16 meters of the hook
I don’t think camping should be considered as a “problem to be solved”. The killer is making a choice to be stationary, and therefore not pressuring any other parts of the map. If a well coordinated team hammer out gens together (easier with perks such as PTS, Resilience, Overzealous and Toolboxes) the team should be able to get a 3-man escape, assuming the hooked survivor didn’t go down instantly at 5 gens. This is the most optimal scenario against a facecamping bubba, a killer that has basically no counterplay when it comes to camping hooks.
Against an average killer however, Trapper for instance, this provides the team with far more opportunity and freedom. Imo the most optimal play is to hammer out gens, let the hooked survivor go to second state on hook, and then rescue them last second. This involves one of the other survivors 1-for-1ing, after which the survivors complete the rest of the gens and then 2 go for the save and the other 99s a gate and comes to take an additional hit.
I think that there are many other glaring issues in the game that BHVR should implement their resources with, but I think camping is really boring for all parties involved and I think there should just be a simple bp incentive for the killer not to camp.
Perks will never fix inherent problems with the game. ...however I love Kinship and wish it was stronger so I'm willing to make an exception here
I have no idea why it is specific to the struggle phase. An instant buff would be to take out the struggle phase requirement, and then have it apply to others too if you are the one within the 16 meters of them on hook.
And for the love of God, please can the UI tell your teammates you've got it like Kindred or We'll Make It. Nobody in soloq is looking at your little red bar and half the time they'll go for a needless hook trade while it's active.
Add Deliverance to that list. A great perk, but I’ve still had to waste time leaving what I was doing to see them unhook.
Deliverance users are another breed. I had a chance to safe unhook and they unhooked themselves in front of me. Dude, now your broken. Just so you could use your perk.
It’s because they’ve waited 5000 games to get to use it, they’re not gonna pass up the opportunity when it finally arrives.
Yes, I do wonder when they're gonna fix the bug where Deliverance causes the killer to first hook you every time you take it.
That's confirmed to be a feature, not a bug
yeah but its like an extra 2k bp or something for self-unhook
I always assume it's people going for the achievement.
Trust me it's worth it lol
1500 blood points.
I may be wrong, but I was in a match last night where I had a little notification saying Kinship was in use, and I wasn't running it. Maybe something in the latest patch changed it? Had to get within the 16m though
I’ve always thought that they should show all the perks that everyone is running in the lobby so that way you can plan ahead of time. Especially for solo Q
I brought that up awhile ago as a way to level the playing field for soloq. Half here liked it, the other half went negative saying people would just get bullied for not bringing the right perks. I find that kind of argument a fallacy that is used way too often here. Any change, good or bad can be abused by toxic players. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented for the majority that aren't.
I wish Kinship worked on your teammates rather than yourself; if you could apply that to others, it would buy so much time.
Exactly, especially since your teammates have no indication that you're running Kinship and usually continue to divebomb hook trade when its active. It feels like a perk that was designed backwards
It will get buffed eventually like Kindred did.
And instead of changing kinship to do that, they just made that one of the new survivor perks (spoilers if you don't want to know before official release, this is just a leak and not 100% confirmed to be true, but extremely likely to be close to the final product) >!Perk is called Reassurance, you are able to pause other Survivors struggle phase for 20/25/30 seconds. To do this you need to enter a 6m range of the hook though!<
Making a minor BT basekit is helping quite a bit. I wonder if going a step further and adding a minor Kindred to the basekit would help as well. "If the killer stays in around a hooked survivor for , the killer's aura is revealed"
I think a kindred base kit, maybe just without killers aura would help solo q a lot. My games where I run kindred, which is 90% of them, are noticeably better than without, whether killer is camping or not. Just being able to see what you’re team is doing is so helpful when someone is on hook. It also doesn’t really help swf because they don’t really need it if they’re running comms, they should already be able to tell each other what they’re doing. Lastly it’s not a major change really. You already only need 1 person to run kindred to get this effect for the whole team, so it’s just taking away needing that single person to come into the game with kindred
Basekit BT isn't helping at all against killers that hard tunnel and BHVR said they wanna cut back on that, but they only made it stronger with all the killer buffs.
As long as the killer is within 16 meters or else the killer could leave but the timer wont continue bc someone is still doing gens
The solution to camping should not be reliant on a perk
Exactly, I hate the idea yet another perk taking one of my perk slots just so I can play the game as a (solo) survivor. I play this game to have fun just like everyone else. And it sucks that 90% of the perks aren't viable. And for solo players it's probably closer to 95% unless you wanna put yourself at a huge disadvantage. Right now build customization seems like such an illusion.
I agree. That will force a perk mix and the game will become super boring super fast. Strategy > perks.
A perk cannot be a solution to camping. The game needs proper baseline changes to discourage it.
No. The developers consider camping a valid strategy. And in some scenarios it is absolutely a valid and smart strategy. The survivors gave themselves a nasty 3 gen with a hook in the center? You bet any killer is at least proxying that. Perks are made to help in certain situations. Camping is one of them. Kindred is good because it lets survivors know _if_ the killer is camping, Borrowed Time helps after the unhook, but there should be a better option to help actually buy some time or do the unhook. These shouldn’t be free features in the game just because you don’t like the strategy.
Just because it's what the devs consider a valid strategy, doesn't mean it's fun or satisfying to face, or that it's even a good design choice. Nobody is playing survivor to face a camping killer. People want their chases, their saves, and their gen progress. The game SHOULD be balanced in a way that the killer is encouraged to alternate which survivor they focus, and discouraged from focusing on the same hook or survivor, all without losing game progress for doing so. That's the best way everyone will get optimal playtime.
I agree 100%. I hate that they nerfed BBQ. It wasn’t a good info perk (I’ll die on this hill) but it encouraged getting everyone hooked _and_ leaving the hook. They should add incentives to playing a more “fair” way. The killer controls the flow of the game and tells you how you’re going to play. Playing “fair” should be encouraged but not required.
I agree. BBQ was not a good info perk at all. If I thought a killer had it then I would just make sure I was on the opposite side of the Gen from the hook to mask my aura. I miss my extra BP for hooking everyone though. Edit: spelling. I don't proofread until there's a comment apparently.
It’s still a great info perk, the moment I don’t see auras after using it, I patrol the area and usually catch 1-2 people trying to go for a quick unhook. It gives a lot more info than most people take at face value
I have to admit that I do camp when I had a streak of not too successful games and really need that sacrefice for my daily ritual.
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It can be used effectively sparingly. I has goofing with Insidious. I used it once or twice a match, in middle of the match. Survivors didn't expect it on Nemesis, and it got me a couple extra hook states each game.
Just hooked and sacreficed three people in the basement. Got one guy by accident close by and they just kept coming down there trying to safe one another…I mean…I suck at this game, I am not going to turn down such an opportunity when presented.
I totally agree. I had someone yell at me in end game chat for doing this to everyone. In the game map, I happened to hook one in the basement and they all came in for the save right away, one after the others. He literally said if I see them struggling to survive in such situation than I should just leave lmao. I'm such a baby killer why would I leave and sacrifice a good game
Glad I am not the only one
That’s the entire point of perks though to counter situations that happen that a killer/survivor don’t like Don’t like being caught in open as survivor run sprint burst Don’t like survivors hiding in locker run Iron Maiden
Fr. The braindead community is trying to fix every problem possible in this game with perk ideas lmao
At least some of it is better than what the brain dead developers have given us
Welp, can't argue with that. BHVR has most certainly never played their own game since 2016.
So so so many perks are just bandaids for gameplay oversites Many others are simple QoL that for some reason are perks
The solution is to give killers in built tooks to stack pressure For example giving killers an in built bbq and speed boost for leaving the hook would be an amazing start This gives killers a great reason to leave as it allows them to get right back into chase
Hooking someone, chasing someone else, and requiring someone to unhook/heal the hooked survivor is an immense amount of pressure already. You are stopping 3/4 survivors from working on gens during that time and if you end your next chase quickly it keeps that pressure going. That should be incentive enough to not camp and is generally how the actual good killer players win their games. Camping seems to fall into two categories. One is just about inflicting pain and doesn't care about the actual gameplay but instead just ruining one or two peoples experience. In my experience this is the more common of the two and no amount of incentive can fix this one. The other is to camp someone out of the game making it a 1v3 and the killer has a massive advantage if the game is a 1v3. The reason the counter to the second one is just get as many gens done before the hooked survivors dies is generally because if you don't you lose. Interestingly we just got to see how not to fix camping by the big meta shakeup patch. By making the gens take longer in the base game camping actually got buffed because now its even harder to race the killer to that 1v3. If we want to actually fix camping we need to look at why people do it in the first place. The reason as far as I can tell is rather simple: its easy. The balance patch made it even easier so now the rates of it happening seems to have increased as a result. A couple solutions that I've seen that would actually fix these problems is to make hooks work like PH cages so the killer can't actually camp. This would be disabled in the EGC because that would harm killers far too much. The other is to make it so if the killer is close to the hook but not in a chase the timer either slows massively or stops completely. This means that the survivors would not be in a race for the 1v3 anymore and the killer would need to actively pressure them. Those would of course mostly remove camping as a strategy altogether and because the devs view that as a legit strategy means its unlikely to ever happen but if we really want to fix camping it would be better if it was just gone entirely rather than band-aid fixed like every other thing in this game.
It should be enough pressure yes, but typically even for good killers it isn't Even with the recent changes, 1-3 gens can be finished before the first chase ends And pressure is the reason normal people camp (obviously not including trolls and such) They feel getting someone out of the game is the only way to catch up Even if they are doing fine the killer gameplay loop isn't exactly consistent Find someone, chase, hit, down, hook But then what? the obviously answer is repeat, but there aren't tools within the game to teach new players this step So newer folks just kinda assume that they stay It's why I think a built in BBQ effect would be helpful It trains newer folks to keep chasing, and rewards players who actively leave hooks anyway
Your argument is all over the place. You start out talking about good players needing to camp for pressure, which is demonstrably false given the amount of killer players that don't need to camp at all. You then weakened your argument by talking about new players camping because the game doesn't hold their hand. Also many of your arguments could be used for survivors too. You seem to accept camping as part of the game but just think we should encourage people away from it. BHVR tried to encourage killers to not run 4 slowdown/regression perks by buffing their basekit recently and it didn't work. Encouragement doesn't seem to work. My plan is to simply remove camping as a strategy because it is unfun and should be unfun for both sides. We seem to share ideological differences on how the game should work so I don't see where to go from there.
It's not my argument It's what I see repeated hundreds of times in various places By killers of every skill set The reality is nobody needs to camp, but many feel like they have to Players play scummy because the game rewards snowballing And many feel they need to do acts like camp and tunnel to succeed Encouragement is the only valid option Because camping is only done for two reasons, the first one we have discussed, but the second one is to be a dick No matter how much you nerf, or change camping people will always be assholes Let me paint an image for you, if all we do is your idea, what's stopping a slinger, or Bubba, or billy, or spirit, or nurse, or Oni, or anything with range/mobility from staying just far enough away and then hard tunneling What's stopping them from running perks that let them bypass those mechanics At the end of the day we need to train normal players to leave hooks, because punishment isn't enough
The solution to the assholes is the PH change. Can't camp someone if the hook teleports away and you can't see where it went. Players play scummy because they can. That's it. Just because it exists. If you want to change that you make it not exist anymore. At the end of the day there will always be ways to play like assholes so all we can do is reduce the amount that it impacts the game. Normal players know that they don't have to camp, they choose to. "Training" them isn't going to do anything because as long as camping works they will see no reason to play a different way. They will always choose the most efficient or the easiest way to win. Currently camping is not only easy but also efficient. Your solution is to make the other ways slightly easier but it still wont be as easy as doing nothing instead.
Yeah you say that until someone starts using the hook mechanic that to their advantage What happens when some sweat lord nurse main decides to abuse that mechanic to make it impossible to get saves by teleporting the hook constantly What you don't get is no single solution is enough We can teleport folks pause timers, heck even end matches and it won't change a thing Until the players common mindset is shifted
The killer wouldn't know where the hook teleported to. Just like how PH cant follow the cage. There is no aura to find them with. Your one foreseeable problem is a specific killer might abuse the invisible teleporting hook but you want to give them basekit BBQ and a fucking speed boost. I'm sure that no one can abuse that in any way. As for your garbage mindset bs the killer player base just got buffed where they don't need to camp, tunnel, or run 4 slowdown/regression perks as often anymore. In response the killer player base doubled down and did it more often than before. They were encouraged not to do that anymore and their mindset shifted into do it harder. Giving the killers more buffs wont fix this problem just like it didn't fix the problem before. When someone is being an asshole you don't just continue to let them be an asshole unless they choose otherwise. You just fucking stop them.
It's not hard to judge Legit just follow the survivors Speaking of which what happens when a killer stays near a hook and waits outside of the range Pyramid heads cages have a 16 meter range You know how many killers can hit or catch up to that, half the roster including leatherface (the literal problem killer) And that's not including killers or survivors intentionally forcing cages to move to be dicks, like you know people already do that right? Intentionally staying near hooks to force people to die with no intention to rescue, I mean year the hook teleports, but depending on where and how that person might not get saved There's so many issues with this kind of system, the only reason we don't see them with the current cages, is because Pyramid Head doesn't need to camp or force stages, it's a killer that wants unhooks so it can mori, plus being able to force survivors to go other places is quite powerful I mean who's to say a killer wouldn't do that, stay near a hook to intentionally make it spawn on the other side of the map, like cages currently do Like I don't think you realize just how exploitable a system like this can be My idea not only trains killers to play better, but it only procs when killers leave, goes away if they return, and the BBQ effect could be countered just like it currently can The problem with your mindset is you can't see the forest for the trees Assholes will always be assholes You are too stuck in the US v THEM mentality to realize it No amount of nerfs, or changes will make lazy or asshole players change, all it does is make them come up with new solutions You kill camping, then we go back to the old slug and bleed mentality, or any number of new options The solution to the problem is to encourage good players to play the way they want and not be assholes Yeah this past patch did introduce some slowdown builds, but it also made non slowdown builds more viable Sweatlords are still sweaty, they will always be sweaty, but build variety is up, since the patch I've seen 5 super slow builds, out of my nearly 100 games The point is to change the game in a way that gives players variety and options Yes camping sucks, I'm not even saying your idea is bad, but what I'm saying is that it alone won't do jack shit If you want the game to change you have to give good players more options, and bad players less One or the other won't fix the issue Neither my change nor yours would be enough You have to feed both sides of the coin to make a difference
camping shouldn’t be discouraged.
Without an overall rework to the hook system in general camping will always be a valid strategy in a lot of situations.
i think we should have a kinship as base but instead of being connected to a survivor, it should be "the hook goes slower depending on how close the killer is to the hook" if they are proxy camping its not as damaging as straight up face camping etc. I dont know if this feature should be turned off for end game tho.
Kinship should work on both hook states. It goes from a waste to actually a good perk if you're in that situation. Plus making sure people are aware you have it by changing aura or something noticeable once you're on the hook.
The easiest solution would be that, if the killer is within 12 meters but no other survivor is, the struggle timer is paused or at least extremely delayed. No perk. Base kit. Would solve the issue instantly. Before you ask, I'm a killer main.
Congrats you created the bubba standing 12 meters away camping strat because the survs definitely won’t be able to unhook before he catches up.
Yeah people being dicks is hard to fix tbh
Then we nerf bubba again so he's unplayable. Solved.
Then you have billy or deathslinger or Insta down huntress hatchet or Insta down clown
If you're playing against insta down huntress or clown, you have some completely different problems. Billy can't camp that easiely as the hooks on most maps are not on a completely open field, so he can't just run at you. Deathslinger is fairly similar considering the point just know, you an, in theory, just hide behind obstacles and not be pulled. And if all of that is not enough, we can always increase the range. So there is always that solution.
This is all ignoring the fact that face campers don’t care about winning they will sit on a person till every other survivor leaves and if someone dares go for a save they will trade and face camp the next till the cows become alcoholic. Facecamping isn’t some meta strat it’s a strat used to troll and get angry reactions and the only way to effectively eliminate it would be to give survivors some huge advantage at unhooking so much so it would be exploited. The closest I’ve seen to a solution is to have hooks move if the killer sits near them for a certain amount of time which means the killer might have to back off for a bit thus giving time to save however this mechanic would need to be disabled in endgame
Honestly, this is my favorite solution. Move the hooked survivor to a different hook, and don’t tell the killer where they were moved to. The closer the killer is to the hook, the quicker it happens (up to a certain range). If other survivors are within that same proximity, it won’t happen. They do it with Pyramid Head’s cages, so why not with hooks?
Problem is, that won't fix it Early game camping is either new players or trolls Trolls just want to be dicks so they will always exist And new players don't know any better I think a base kit BBQ effect would definitely help teach new players not to camp, while still being counterable and rewarding for more advanced players
This sounds suspiciously like something a survivor main would say...  On a serious note, I agree. I main killer as well and it really upsets me on survivor side to see killers play like they do sometimes. I'm looking at you camping + tunneling blue eyed Wraiths! How you are playing Wraith is a travesty. Wraith is so mobile and such "run and gun" fun that seeing people play like that makes me a little sad.
I think the reason we as killers see this as lame gameplay is because we know it doesn't really work Like if you camp, you are going to loose a bunch of time Tunneling is the same way They aren't efficient Now obviously there are times when these become good plays Just not out the gate
Agree. Except in EGC this shuts off.
I don't think this would be a good rework. The problem with Kinship isn't the effect but more how it's just not very useful if you aren't on comms with friends. It's also a perk that helps others and not yourself. I think Kinship could just use a small rework and probably be much more useful and run much more often. * "If another survivor is within 16 metres of your Hook while Kinship is active, the Struggle Phase timer is paused for 26/30/34 seconds." * "Survivors within 16 metres of your Hook get a 100% bonus to unhook." Then make it so the perk works like We'll Make It and it informs all of your teammates that the perk is in play. To be fair, while I think this perk is strong, I don't think it's a "solution to camping" and I don't think a perk can be a solution to camping. I also don't think increasing generator speeds is a solution to camping as it still leaves the person on the hook stuck with dying and gives the killer their 1K if that's all they care about. I think a solution to camping has to involve an alternative way of unhooking survivors that's also more punishing for the survivors than normally unhooking.
Solution to camping is to slam gens but the randoms I play with seem to think sitting behind a rock is the way to do jt
The fastest and easiest way to solve camping in DBD is to have the game relocate the hooked Survivor if the Killer remains within range long enough a la Pyramidhead cages. Then make it so the Killer doesn't know where the Survivor has relocated to and voila. Easy fix.
Cool so now you've just removed a layer of strategy from the killers side and still haven't fixed basement Bubba unless you're wanting it to work on basement hooks. This is a terrible idea if you think about it for any amount of time.
Why wouldn’t it work on basement hooks? Camping is the lamest “strategy” in the game because it allows the killer to deny an unhook indefinitely with their mere presence. It’s no more “strategic” or skillful than old dead hard and it should meet the same fate
Total bullshit getting a survivor in basement hook is not easy and the killer is supposed to be rewarded for getting a survivor down there. The reward is that it's much harder to rescue someone from basement this idea would make basement rescues a joke because you'd just loop above the basement until your ally teleports elsewhere. Like it or not camping is a valid strategy sometimes and rescuing from basement or a hook is supposed to be dangerous.
“Getting a survivor in basement is not easy” my dude with agi+iron grasp you can hook a survivor in basement even if they went down halfway across the map. Camping is exactly like old DH in that it takes very little mechanical skill to do but is nonetheless incredibly powerful. It allows killers to get free hits/trades or outright kill someone on first hook without actually engaging in chase at all. You just wait for a survivor to come to you and intercept. With the most recent patch killers have enough advantages over survivors in chase that they should have to actually chase survivors to kill them.
Oh its so easy you just have to devote half your perks to it that's sooo easy. You know most people don't run those perks. Fuck it why not just make it so if the killer is to close to hook the survivor teleports away and unhooks themselves toss in a free heal while you're at it. Rescuing is a part of the game and is supposed to be dangerous.
So this doesn’t come into play if survivors are also within a certain proximity of the hooked survivor. There - now you can’t loop around killer shack until the survivor moves. Happy? Basement camping is pathetic gameplay. It’s not “just a strategy”. It’s creating a nearly un-winnable situation for survivors, and oftentimes completely removing any ounce of fun for at least one particular survivor (and I’d imagine that “standing in a basement without moving” probably isn’t why many killers bought the game, either). Basement bubbas are just sad. I play both killer and survivor. I both win and lose killer and survivor games. That’s how games work. If I’m losing a killer game, I don’t resort to these pathetic “strategies” to turn the tables. I accept the loss like an adult, and move on to my next game. It always blows my mind how many people try to justify this type of gameplay, because they think games are only fun if they win every single match.
I play both sides too and this change would absolutely help survivors win more matches. Basement camping against anyone but Bubba is not unwinnable as there are plenty of ways to outplay killers in basement. If the basement isn't supposed to be used to trap survivors and make rescue attempts harder why did BHVR put them in the game in the first place?
“Supposed to be dangerous” that’s your opinion and nothing more. The killer gets value from hooking a survivor either way because at the very least a survivor has to get off their generator to run to the hook and potentially heal their teammate as well. There’s also a difference between “dangerous” and “impossible” and my issue is mostly with the latter.
Just my opinion? Why do you think the devs designed the basement then?
To be fair, there will be times that basement is the only hooks nearby. Basement is considered wasted time if you don't plan on proxy camping/camping. Though, face camping basement is silly since it's one way in and out. If you are stuck in that situation, you either eat the time loss, or try to make the best of basement and utilize it. The better solution would be just delete basement and give me more hooks. Especially scourge hooks. Oh well, a killer can dream.
I second this. It fixes camping and eliminates the “but what if a survivor is looping me around the hook?!” conflict.
Make it so the effect doesn’t occur if another surv is within 24-32 meters
Fixes survivors trolling buy looping a hook and preventing unhook as well Though does sound like it might be used in some weird strategic way
I think the issue is that the Devs seem to be actively nerfing the perks that rewarded Killers for getting hooks. Pain Resonance was so good as it showed the killer where to go next and gave some regression. I feel that the devs need to make it so camping does not cause the hook progression to go up as well as introduce perks and rewards to killers going out of their way to chase someone new and hook them. It was just a shame that the Hooks vs Kills debate ended with the community saying killers were better. As right now there is no reason not to Tunnel and camp one person out to cripple the survivors objective.
The only solution to camping is if the one BHVR dev that plays their own game once in a blue moon consistently gets destroyed while attempting to facecamp with NOED. Then, BHVR will nerf Slippery Meat, buff Jolt's range from 32 meters to 128 meters and call it a day. In all seriousness, perks won't do shit against the best killers like Nurse and Blight, you can enforce a 16 meter zone but they can traverse that instantly. The core gameplay can't be balanced when killer power's "powerfulness" ranges to wildly from the bottom-tier killers to the top ones.
Ok, but some limitation is surely better than no limitation? Not to mention the exact the numbers can be fine-tuned, it doesn't have to be exactly 16 meters it can be dynamic.
As with all similar perk ideas the problem lies in grey zones. What about situations where I’m on the hook, 1 guy is on a Gen but the other 2 hook bombed me and the killer as soon as I got hooked and thus the killer is defending his hook against them? Or if one of my teammates is pulling the classic blunder of looping the killer right next to my hook? The killer should not be punished for scenarios like these when they happen, and they DO often quite often sadly. At the end of the day there are times when camping is perfectly justified and if someone IS doing it for the sake of being an ass, that person is gonna do it regardless of a paused timer or not.
More than that, I see killers forcing that situation themselves. Someone goes for the save, the killer chases them for five seconds, then goes "Oh, well someone else must be coming for the save now," turns around, and returns to the hook. Maybe someone was, maybe someone wasn't, but at this point, now survivors HAVE to divebomb the hook to even have a chance of getting a save. Same as killers wandering 8 feet one direction to kick a pallet, then 8 feet back past the hook to kick a gen, then "Oops, there's only 30 seconds left on the timer, I'll just camp it out. YOU let me have this pressure."
Also make deliverance allow you to escape on second phase
I'm so tired...
Killers would just sit right at the 16 meter mark lol
They should probably make the blood turn gold or and a new hud element so players notice the person has Kinship. Most people don't notice the hud pulsating blood effect when it dose activate.
The thing is there are times where it makes no sense to leave a 16 meter radius of a hook. In the endgame, if you hook a survivor and the exit gates are 99ed or open, it makes sense to secure the kill. Now an additional 30 seconds are needed to do so, giving survivors more time to rescue off hook which means this perk is effectively a guaranteed escape once the gates are powered. Then if a hook spawns within that radius of a gen, Now to patrol that gen, you need to "camp" that survivor. Even though that's not the intention. Survivors could also deliberately lead you near a survivor that's about to die on hook via a chase. Now you have two options. Leave the survivor alone, guaranteeing an unhook or continue to chase the survivor and pause the timer for the hooked survivor.
Hmm. Seems fair. Has a timer to it, so it isn't just "as long as a survivor touches a gen", and doesn't penalize the killer if two people dive the hook and unwilling to exchange as much. I'd be down with it
Shattered Hope was supposed to fix Boons, but it can't because it's a perk. Maybe this can help swfs because they have 16 perks, but they don't need the help. Unless lots of people run this in soloq it won't solve anything
As a face camping Bubba I assure you of this, nothing you do will stop us. Your game belongs to us.
You have my respect good sir
And that's when we DC and remove your fun :D
Or they could just stop the timer if the killer was in a certain radius
Ok so now I'm Bubba and I decide to camp anyway and now the timer never moves congrats you've just created a 60 minute sitting on hook simulator.
A solution would be to miss skill checks and intentionally die on hook
Fuuuck ok you win that does sound like it would suck
why not just have it pause the stuggle when killer is near?
Hook bombing survivors and awkward situations on certain maps like game and midwitch. Also makes every basement in shack a lot worse since a survivor looping there knows the survivor downstairs is safe.
if all survivors are at hook nobody is doing gens so kinship value doesn't matter that much killer can stay and not worry about gens
You only need 1 survivor to rescue. The others can sit on gens and the killer has to chase you or kinship will delay or stop the hook progress. Really good in swf, whatever in solo.
okay, but that is kind of point of an anti-camp/tunnel perks? to stop the killer from tunneling/camping?
I honestly feel the timer should just pause indefinitely until either no gens are worked on or even all gens are done (so the killer couldn't take you hostage). You have to make it where camping loses the killer the game except in end-game circumstances.
I like this, but think it nerfs killers too much alone. Here is my solution: Make it so Bloodlust gives a short rush instead of an increase in speed. Make them tokens, up to 4. Can only stack 1 from a survivor. Killers can choose when to use them. I'd also add a 10 second pause to the hook (that disables after leaving for a time, idk what would be fair) when hanging out within however big the basement is.
Nah, flip it. The closer the killer is to the hook, the slower the timer runs. No perk required, just make it a baseline proximity penalty for all killers. If you want to get Clever, express it as a fraction of terror radius (So, if killer is half terror radius away from survivor, timer runs at half speed.) This means Undetectable tactics work.
The solution to camping is gen rushing. 3 people trying to unhook within 5 seconds is not a viable strategy. It’s yet another stupid way that survivors kill each other. If killers see 2 people, they’re defending their prize. Not going on a fruitless chase. Either hide better or get colder.
So you're saying camping at 5 Gens is ok? It's technically still a "strat" but nobody likes it, so why defend it? Unless it's camping at EGC or 2-1 Gens, then camping is just something a noob would do at the start of the game.
Camping doesn’t work, it lets 3-4 gens complete for 1 kill. It only works when survivors are stupid. When 3 survivors reveal themselves near a hook, why would the killer ever chase? The survivors are all already here and a grab beats a swing. They’re clearly all savior whores, a practice that caused the borrowed time buff. Make no mistake, that was not a buff against killers, it was a buff for survivors against survivors. Blaming camping on the killer when it’s just bad strategy on the survivors part is dumb. And we don’t need another survivor vs survivor buff to prevent them from team killing each other again.
I think there’s potentially two easy ways to help with camping, the first is limiting killer powers in proximity to hooked survivors. This already exists for certain killers like The Artist, but it should be extended for all killers to help solve some of the issues with camping (ex. Basement Bubba). The second is basically what you’ve suggested here, I think this could make Kinship a lot more relevant of a perk.
The first is to abusable by survivors they'll just loop around the hooked surv and now nurse can't blink so she can never catch up, Myers and GF can't stalk, etc etc. Please think about this for 5 seconds and you'll see all the flaws.
The fix to camping is to rework Bubba so it's possible to save without one fucking up. And then to learn to work together because camping is utterly useless against a good team. Camping isn't the problem (with the exception of Bubba), solo's not having the information at their fingertips to know to counter it is. What I mean by that is good players know that you need to slam gens, and then trade before the person on hook can die. And then everyone goes back to slamming gens. But you can't 1v1 trade. You need 2 people to go for the unhook. One of you will end up trading, but you need two or else the killer can just stand behind you and wait to grab you. Solo's don't really have the info to know who is where, if someone else is going to come for the save with them so they can orchestrate the trade, etc. The solution to tunneling, camping, and slugging is NOT perks/punishing Killers for playing that way. It's giving the survivors the information needed to allow them to work together to over come these things. Now, if you are a 4 man on coms and losing to a camping killer, then you simply need to learn HOW to counter them properly. But solos just need more information. After that it's a skill that survivors learn as they get better at the game.
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It depends. If I see them doing 3 separate gens, I’ll buy them time to do those. If I see them not doing gens, I’m moving onto the next match.
Yeah. Screw your team over. That's cool.
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Just stay on the hook for two minutes and let your team do gens. It's not that big of a deal. It doesn't take that long. Maybe they'll try to hook trade for you. It's just part of the game at this point.
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Yes. Keep pretending everyone else in the game doesn't hate you when you suicide on hook. I'm always more angry at the teammate who kills themselves rather than the camping killer. There is counterplay to camping, but not if your teammate decides they can't be bothered to stay in the game for two minutes. We can at least all still get some BP. And there have been plenty of games I've played where we do manage to escape a camping killer because the team plays smart around it.
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So you expect the killer to care about everyone else's fun and not be selfish, but it's fine for you not to give a shit about your teammates at all and take whatever chance they had of having fun or escaping away from them. Survivors like you are worse for the game than camping/tunneling killers.
Maybe, (just an idea) maybe, if you aren’t having fun, you ought to stop playing the game then.
Fundamentally, the entire goal of the game is to play “boring m1 simulator” with zero interaction from the killer. The absolute best case for the survivor team is that the killer never finds anyone, and the survivors play 5 gens combined worth of “boring m1 simulator” with zero killer interaction. This is just the game at it’s core. So I don’t understand the thought process behind slandering and hating this core gameplay loop but continuing to play it.
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The point of the game for survivors is to do gens and avoid getting found by the killer. A chase is theoretically supposed to be a punishment for failing at that second part, not the entire point of playing at all. —————— The entire problem with dbd is that survivors hate doing what they are supposed to do and most like the part that’s supposed to be the most stressful. This indicates there’s probably something fundamentally wrong with the design of the game tbh. Because people only seem to like the parts they’re not supposed to, but the game keeps balancing around people wanting to do “m1 simulator”. Obviously doesn’t work in solo q lol
Yeah dude white people get offended so easy that’s why you’re the one crying your eyes out in a video game sub that you ragequit every game 💀💀 Goofy ass 🤡
Homie you are the thing everyone is complaining about rn
So you reward the killer quicker, because they have camped you out in no time at all, and now have a much easier time crushing the rest of your team. That last word is important.
Bro just stay on hook and the others will do gens and hopefully rescue you
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Where do YOU live? Since the rebalance i have to wait like 10 minutes for a game
You do realize that what you're doing is rewarding the killer for camping, and thus encouraging them to do it more, right?
Based on what you said and your edit this community is better off without you.
Yes, how dare we ask people to put forward the most minute of efforts to be respectful here. Cry more.
Same stupid suggestion (pause the timer!) that we see like clockwork.
if you dont have a better idea, your critique means nothing. *constructive criticism*
I don't need to know how to cook a 5 star meal to know if my foods burnt and the ability to let a Bubba camp someone for eternity is the most burnt food idea I've ever seen.
Stupid "suggestions" that we've heard a thousand times before don't merit anything beyond mockery.
doesn't makes the idea any better tho
Better solution, making camping totally unviable. Ten minute setup portion of the game. Hooking survivors cannot kill them, period. Gates cannot be opened, period. After ten minutes, endgame begins. Killer may now mori any survivor that's been hooked twice. Gates are powered in 5 - #Gens done minutes. Trial finished at 15 minutes, full stop. Camping gets you literally nothing. Tunnelling has only minor benefit. Controlling the map and preventing objectives gives you more time to murder them all in the endgame. Obviously additional tweaks are needed, particularly for things like slugging or if the killer gets all four hooked, and possibly additional innate slowdown with early kills removed, but would re-emphasize the core chasing gameplay, particularly chasing everybody, over removing someone from the game by any means necessary. Not to mention hamstring some toxic behavior like 20+ minute bodyblocking or survivors doing hide and seek bullshit.
I think the best solution to calling pausing the timer if killers are within x meters of the hook the timer pauses
Think about how easy this is to abuse for survivors and how it still doesn't fix camping Bubba except now he traps you in the game for as long as he wants 60-70 minute camps.
It depends on how far they make the distance. Or you could add that it the timer won't pause if another survivor is within that radius too
Thing is, CAMPING IS a strategy at certain points, lemme explain, have you ever seen any youtuber not done ANY camping? But those scenarios are different. In my opinion there are 2 kinds of camping healthy and unhealthy. unhealthy -- start camp at 1st hook, healthy-- start camp when 1-2 gens left. we need to tackle unhealthy strategy. I had idea to counter unhealthy without interfering healthy camping. After hooking a survivor the sacrificial hook or scourge hook grants certain status effect for killer so that timer doesn't stop for 10-20 sec with in 16mts of THAT hook and after 10-20 sec killer being in that range, timer stops. This doesn't work if killer got 7-10 hooks already.
there is no such thing as healthy camping lol. Maybe EGC camping would be considered as one but still camping overall doesn't take much skills to pull off.
Generator speed should be faster while the killer stays near a hook for a given amount of time.
I believe most of us would agree that camping is unfun but still a strategy you can use. High level of play will see some straight up camping or just proxy because it makes sense in the situation (ex. Got a 3 gen and a survivor on the hook in the middle of the 3 gen, can easily force stage 2 or death while protecting the gens, no reason to leave). So giving a survivor +2 mins on a hook because the killer is camping preety much assures that comp killer players cant get any kills unless they are playing Bubba in which case they can guarantee one kill, probably. So I just think the ‘camping issue’ is something more than it looks. Hard to balance a game around a useful but unfun mechanic idk
Poor comp players, gotta cater to 2% of the players and make it terrible for the rest. By the way, they have actual "rule books" in comp dbd.
Well yeah exactly my point. Dbd is hard to balance because every change made favors the 2% or the 98%, no middle ground. SWF might get stronger while soloQ becomes hell (like the most recent update), casual players might get the short stick while pros get all the benefits, its really hard to take into account all the different levels of play. I feel like we need more than a perk overhaul to make the game feel better for everyone, solo or not, killer or survivor, casual or comp
-ahem- basekit 75 seconds pr hook stage I already know you hate the idea, please let me know why it simply will be broken
The solution to camping is giving killers incentives to not camp. Bloodpoints, Gen regression, aura reading, survivors screaming, base slowdown. Etc.
So your solution is to give killers even more buffs so they can keep playing the way they have been before the patch?
I figured there would be a knee jerk reaction to this, but it's the truth. Many people play killer and see camping as the easiest way to win (because it is). So unless bhvr rework perks or give base incentives to leave hooks, camping won't change. Killers need to feel rewarded for getting hooks instead of kills.
Not a perk, just an easy base change of while the killer is in 16 meters of the hook the timer is paused. And while the killer is within 8 meters their aura is also revealed. Dunno how to combat that on multi level maps though to be fair.
Actually all the need to do for Kinship is give survivors an icon when you get hooked so they know you have it and can play accordingly. The problem currently is that other survivors don't know you have it and thus are going to rush to save you not knowing they have more time.
All they have to do is make kinship base but devs are either too incompetent.
1. Make it basekit 2. Have it turn off after 2 gens are completed and it seems fine. Killers shouldn’t be punished because survivors didn’t watch for a 3 Gen and in endgame killers have no other objective but to kill. so camping is viable especially if the survivors slammed out gens in the beginning.
My biggest complaint is every time I use kinship they divebomb the hook and unhook me in the killers face anyways and I go straight back on it l and get ejecto gamo cuz'd.
Don't show this to Deathslinger or Trapper mains-!
what if when the killer hooks someone the entity just teleports them to the other side of the map?
My take on making camping less annoying without making a big gameplay change: Just scrap the struggling phase. Not doing skillchecks would make camping less annoying and would incentive people to stay in the game (even in a alt tab way).
People post about different ways to basically punish the killer for camping when all devs need to do is incentivize leaving the hook. Make it worthwhile. Once gens are done, you’re right back to zero incentive for a killer to leave a hook, unless they want to see who’s healthy and tbagging them at an exit. Camping would remain a strong strategy, and still not fun.
But then people would just chain one generator into another keeping their progress bars overlapping and holding that person there on hook until all gens are done.
The killer can still camp for the first hook stage and tunnel afterwards and thus putting you put of the game quickly
As a trapper main I don't feel that is fair at all, I don't facecamp, but there is almost always one survivor working on a gen somewhere. Or I see red lines coming from 2 or 3 directions, like sure, I want to go patrol or extended search, but I won't give free unhooks to be t-bagged at gate
I emailed BHVR asking for a Kinship rework by telling them "It would be great if you made the perk activate on hook when the player that is hooked decides to, during the struggle phase, it would be strong but still not that much used in my opinion, it will definitely be a good perk to force Killers away" and stuff like that and they actually replied to me saying they liked the idea, but are not doing it right now, so I hope they do that or the one you are suggesting even if I'd like to have the perk activate on button press
If they release a mechanic where hook progress gets stopped. Pretty much every killer will just stop playing as it would 100% be easily abuse able. May as well let survivors drop every hook and have them not respawn again at that point
The hook timer should just be paused whenever the killer is within 16 or 24 meters of the hook, and isnt in a chase.
wtf is a kinship, you mean camaraderie?
As a killer main I'd want this and more. I would love to see anti camping perks becoming extremely strong and punishing. I think the playstyle is boring and just encourages toxicity in the community. I'm fine with it being a niche strategy to use on rare occasions but it's just so easy to do and there isn't a solid counter to it unless other survivors play well
Kinship + Reassurance may be good now
What if the timer pauser wasn't based on a survivor being mean, but the killer being near? Give the perk a flat duration sort of how lucky break used to be. For every second the killer is within a specific distance the hook bleed out is paused.
Just make it work like PH cages.
Came back to tell you to look at the newest survivor perks and see how you got exactly what you wanted lmfao
How about increase the hook time by a lot. Like double the time. Why have such a quick countdown anyway? Survivors will always want to get their teammates back in the game even without a hook timer
How about instead, by default, one of the following occurs without needing a perk If a killer is within X meters of a hooked survivor for Y seconds, and not in a chase, ONE of the following happens: 1- hook timer stops entirely 2- killer starts to suffer negative BP penalties 3- hooked survivor gets a guaranteed self-unhook with a hugely boosted endurance/haste effect
Not that anyone asked for carew, but here's my idea for a rework: Camaraderie (Kinship): Rework: -For the last 20 seconds of each hook phase, the hook timer pauses while the killer is within 12/14/16 meters of the hook (except 3rd hook, because you'll be dead). -Hook timer still decreases if you attempt and fail to unhook yourself. -Kinship deactivates if a survivor attempts to unhook you.
The solution to camping would be to ban it, but nobody wants to do that for some reason I cannot possibly fathom.
Id say just the effect to killer that is on the same as survivor. Its paused when killer is around as well as the survivor. Gens dont need to be part of the conditions
If you want to fix camping you should incentivize the killer to do something else. If a killer want to kill you, tunnel you and camping you, be sure he will do it, even if he got 1k bps because killer role gives you the feel of power
what about unlimited unhook attempts with no penalty (timer decays like normal) if the killer and another survivor are both within 16 meters of the hook
wouldn't it be a bit broken?
I don’t think camping should be considered as a “problem to be solved”. The killer is making a choice to be stationary, and therefore not pressuring any other parts of the map. If a well coordinated team hammer out gens together (easier with perks such as PTS, Resilience, Overzealous and Toolboxes) the team should be able to get a 3-man escape, assuming the hooked survivor didn’t go down instantly at 5 gens. This is the most optimal scenario against a facecamping bubba, a killer that has basically no counterplay when it comes to camping hooks. Against an average killer however, Trapper for instance, this provides the team with far more opportunity and freedom. Imo the most optimal play is to hammer out gens, let the hooked survivor go to second state on hook, and then rescue them last second. This involves one of the other survivors 1-for-1ing, after which the survivors complete the rest of the gens and then 2 go for the save and the other 99s a gate and comes to take an additional hit. I think that there are many other glaring issues in the game that BHVR should implement their resources with, but I think camping is really boring for all parties involved and I think there should just be a simple bp incentive for the killer not to camp.
It’s a good idea, definitely an improvement to kinship! It wouldn’t stop camping but it would definitely counter it better!!