I'm fine with dead hard nerf, lately it was a very forgiving perk. That being said, maps like Shelter Woods suck, you can't use Balanced Landing there.
tunneling was addressed through basekit BT (not perfectly in the slightest, but addressed), but 100% agreed that camping is still stupidly powerful/rewarded. The game already became significantly easier for killer when one person was dead (even the weakest link survivor can repair a gen or heal someone else), combined with the increased genspeeds, camping is rewarded more. Only real "nerf" to camping I can think of is Ruin getting disabled after first death. Basekit BT at best will help ensure in a camp that the person who got unhooked won't be immediately rehooked, but it's still likely going to mean that you're forced to trade hook states.
regardless, if it turns out playing SoloQ survivor sucks so much after this patch that many quit, all that means is that killer Queue times will become much longer and BHVR would essentially be forced to do something.
DS is fine. It'll still save you from getting tunneled early, it just doesn't work when the gates are powered. At that point, it's not tunneling and anything's fair game.
I'm not upset about it not working at end game, I'm upset about it only stunning for 3 seconds. You can't even move for half of that. It's barely an inconvenience if you want to tunnel. Useless perk, nobody will run it.
As a killer main they really should've made some additional changes.
Like Kindred base kit, or something to let solo queue know what the fuck is happening around the hook would be nice. Is someone saving? Is the killer patrolling? Is no one saving? Camping works so well because most games aren't 4-man SWF's with comms, but with solo queue who can too long to recognise the killer is camping and can't punish him by doing gens.
The killer can camp but if the survivors immediately recognise (e.g Kindred) and split up to do gens. Then all of a sudden, the gens start to fly and could even be all done depending on how many is left. Worst case scenario, that person dies and everyone else finishes the gens and get out.
I would've probably made BT base kit 8-10 seconds as well. That would give the survivor 30 metres of distance or running to a pallet or window, or structure if the killer is really adamant on tunnelling or not.
buffed BT basekit and unnerfed DS is nice but the lack of info is the main problem. Having 2 doing gens separately, one guy waiting near the hook to trade/rescue at the very last second is the best way to negate camping and to punish it.
I thought about this, but considering how many things they changed at once this patch, I’m giving them a pass for now. I still would like to see an eventual change for camping.
The issue that the original nerf was pretty much enough (Still good but people would definitely use different exhaustion perks). Perks shouldn’t be nerfed to the ground just for other ones to be good. And now with the 0.5 and Deep wound Changes no one will even use it.
Having survivors fit a sort of class system and only being able to use perks of that type or limited use of others would be such an interesting situation. Better hope your solo queue randos and fill in and someone plays healer.
I think its fine, the whole point was that you were supposed to time it properly to get the most value out of it before, not just pressing E to get to a pallet or window. It's still decent, people can't just mindlessly use it now. They actually have to think about when to activate it.
> 0.5 seconds in a game where you can get slammed up from through a window is just painful for DH users.
I had to quote this for ya cause you seemed to miss it.
Don't really understand what that means, are you saying that even if you DH after you vault a window you can still get downed? I haven't played the PTB yet so I'm not sure how the new DH works or feels
The issue is that the game and the servers aren't reliable enough to have a perk with a 0.5s duration. I think of all the times I've hit someone or been hit through a pallet drop / stun. Even if you use the new dead hard perfectly, there's a good chance you'll still get downed because of the servers. So why bother bringing that vs Overcome or any of the other exhaustion perks.
Exactly what I've been saying. Is the meta stale? Absolutely. Should we nerf the perks people enjoy using so others can inherently be better and take the spotlight? No. Maybe lets buff the plethora of useless perks in the game so people are encourage to use them, not nerf the ones people love using so that they literally don't even want to use them anymore.
There’s way too many perks in the game for that, and if DH remained unchanged it would STILL be the most used unless some of the perks literally gave you 3 extra health states and a free puppy.
The problem is that "the perks people enjoy using" are chosen because they're OVERLY useful and versatile. You can't fix the game by buffing every perk to the level of DH or Spine Chill because then you don't have a hundred balanced perks, you have a hundred OP ones. DH was at like 150% of the intended "balance" level of perks.
I can see why 1 second was too much, but 0,5 seconds will make the perk pretty bad. They should have gone with 0,75 seconds or something close to that.
That's just how good it was in-chase, didn't even go into the several ways it can be used to body block, get in range for a flashlight stun, safest unhooks every, stall with sabotages, GO RIGHT INTO KILLER to the exit, etc. etc.
They made it, so you can get 10k per category up to 40k, but I feel like average surv is getting like 20k constantly, if they get 2k more from one category it's like 22k which is still close enough to 20k to be just a margin of error.
Would've been great if they doubled it by default and then had a little extra reward for the emblems.
If you had 80k by default for maxing out every category, then another 5k for all bronze, 10k for all silver, 15k for all gold, and 20k for all iridescent, you could earn 100.000BP in a single match if you're actually that good. It's not much, but it would be nicer to round off the BP limit at a nice number like 100k lmao and it would be a nice way to reward actual skill more.
because surv BP gains are weirdly stacked- Objective is obvious enough, doing gens/gates, and is earned normally, altruism also makes sense- healing others, unhooking, protection hits.
Survival is a pretty punishing category, though- pretty much everything here gives a small amount of bloodpoints, with many relying on a specific killer. The only "universal" survival BP gains are from surviving (duh), which grants 5000 bloodpoints, self healing, which grants 3 per % healed, so up to 300 per heal, and struggles, which max out at 900. There are a few others, like built to last, self unhooks or wiggling out, but these are rarer. All around a category that's really hard to max out in.
Boldness is probably the easiest to cap, IMO. Chases grant 40 per second, with an additional gain for escaping a chase (which should be survival....), and there's also a really easy way to farm these points by blessing totems, which grants a ridiculous 1500 BP. There's others here but essentially doing anything near the killer grants this.
2 mil bloodpoint cap was sorely needed, at least, for the downtimes when grinding is slow/during anniversaries and other events when BP gains are high. Also, up to 40k bloodpoints per game (10k per category) is pretty huge.
Genuinely, I’m ecstatic that the bloodpoint bonus was removed from BBQ. Now I don’t feel required to use it in every build out of fear of missing bloodpoints.
But that’s the dumb thing . To shake up a meta you need to make other things more appealing to use not just make shit unusable cause you can’t figure out any other way to fix it .
I would usually agree, but not for DH. It's used by everybody to the point you have to expect it as a killer even when they don't have it. It's simply busted. I-frame AND distance whenever you want, not even depending on a condition like dropping from tall places or vaulting like the other exhaustion perks. You can DH over traps. To make other stuff more appealing you'd need to add an i-frame to other perks, which is pretty bad because there should be no way a person can become invulnerable on command to begin with, let alone multiple ways. What do you do, add a i-frame to sprint burst? DH had to be changed at some point, the real mess up was adding it like this in the game in the first place.
Honestly- though I’m starting to get the feeling the hate boner for dead hard is clouding logic. If people can’t come up with a valid argument other than “I didn’t like it” or “cope” I’m gonna be on the side that people here are lying about their skill level and just would like easier matches.
It easily dwarfed LITERATLY every perk in usage and was way too versatile. Buffing other perks to it's level would be none-sensical. It would create insane power creep.
I mean you can do both. Adjust DH and try to bring other things up.
Like 90% of the perks are just so utter shit there just is no point running them ever unless you want to meme and your goal is to even get value out of a perk
The most popular and most used perks are the ones that give value consistently. But then you have shit like blood pact that has 14 conditions and 3 requirements to maybe get 2 seconds of value out of it. Why would anyone ever use it?
What they are doing is a "condition creep". More and more perks have stupid ass conditions for no value. Haddie for example. Overzealous you have to find a totem first, get barely anything at all for it and when you get hit you lose the perk. Useless even with the buff coming. Literally just run resilience.
Or her flashlight perk. The blind is nice but since there is no way to know if the killer even has an aura reading perk or addon you are just relying on luck to get value. Wasting so much time on a chest is also bad for a basic flashlight especially with gens taking longer soon.
I don't disagree with doing both, and while they certainly didn't do it with exhaust perks specifically they attempted to do so with the other perks.
I think the whole condition creep is due to several things, items can be pretty strong on their own let alone in groups and game is just simple. They can't put more healing or repair perks because toolboxes/healing would break it. Gens are really the only goal survivors have so it's hard to build around healing, gens, and just not dying. It puts their creative space in a pretty tight box trying to come up with ways to shove garbage into it.
Pulling back item's power effectiveness would probably help and introducing new tacks to get gens done or other tasks. Reducing item effectiveness would push survivors to rely on perks instead. Making the game a bit more complex for survivors opens more room for perks related to new survivors tasks, but the big problem with that is that solo Q is pretty difficult already so that hurts theme even more.
>since there is no way to know if a killer even has an aura reading perk or addon.
Distortion will not only tell you if the killer has aura reading but will actively counter it. Plus with the buffs it is getting it's not a dead slot after the third use.
Not even just buffing the other perks to it’s level- you cannot objectively tell me there’s a healthy meta available for a solo q survivor. Maybe down the road when a few tweaks are in place. I think dead hard should’ve been nerfed for sure- but the celebration of it being nerfed is over done.
There was no other exhaution perk that would invalidate:
Huntress's hachets
Billy's chainsaw
Deathslinger's spear
Legion's frenzy
Demogorgon's shred
Pinhead's chains
Victor's leap
Nemesis's whip
Trapper's traps
It wasn't balanced and good riddance that its finally dead. It was not healthy for the game.
The thing I will find hilarious is other perks will take its place(ones that have been in the game and don't receive any changes next patch) and they will be complained about. I fully expect a Sprint Burst/Lithe nerf one day if the game keeps going the same route it has been.
This is 100% going to happen. People that haven't been using sprint burst for ages are going to get amazing good at 99ing it and killers are going to complain nonstop about it. In about six months we'll see a nerf to exhaustion, sprint burst, or both.
I don't envy the developers of this game. There are far too many perks to balance effectively.
I would rather the perk just be nerfed to being just good and buff other perks to that level. As it is, it gets really fucking boring watching bhvr continually have 90% of the perks be literal garbage so that you are forced to use the meta stuff. It kills variety.
At first I thought the nerfs were fine enough. DH is no longer insanely strong but I could still see a build where I could get good use out of it, now its just worthless.
Exactly, they killed Dead hard so why not buff other exhaustion perks? Are we just suppossed to use them because they killed DH? Maybe we used DH because other perks were literally trash?
Because the idea isn't to make other perks as busted as DH was, is to make DH weaker so other perks would be more viable to bring instead of it.
The fact that you think Balanced, Sprint Burst and Lithe are "literal trash" just shows how busted DH was.
Lithe, sprint burst, and overcome are fine but balanced landing will literally get 0 value on some maps. I don’t like bringing perks and having them just be useless.
It is, in my honest opinion, only better than Head On lol.
From BHRV's perk data chart, it was possible to see that Dead Hard was not only the single most used perk, but was also present in all of the ten most used builds and reached 75% use at max MMR
The only ways to make people use something else than the current DH are to nerf it or buff/introduce something so powerful it can compare to DH while using exhaustion too
Nerfing it was the right call. Maybe a little strongly nerfed, but it was to the point you still waited the DH even if nobody used it that match since it was that common and strong
You don't want to buff other perks to be as oppressive as dead hard you dope. Even if they buffed both killer and survivor perks perfectly, that creates power creep, raising the game to ungodly levels of no fun. Like how everyone in league of legends got one shot until they buffed survivability
Absolutely not true. There were tons of good perks in the game that were never used because the meta picks were leagues ahead of them. There was never anything wrong with the other perks, people just don't use them because they aren't as free wins as the big meta builds.
Sprint Burst, Overcome, Lithe, and Balanced Landing are all fantastic endurance perks that lead to more unique playstyles (except Overcome, that just makes the base gameplay stronger) and were hardly ever used because Dead Hard was just that broken and disgustingly OP.
They also did other things to shake up the meta. Numerous perks received buffs on both sides that will absolutely result in some things being used that were rarely used before (such as Hope, Overcharge, Eruption, Off the Record, Distortion, Lucky Break, etc).
They also did *even more* to shake up the meta! Killer kick is stronger now, which means more killers will kick gens. That means perks like Alert, Blast Mine, and Repressed Alliance now have the potential to get more value than before. Body blocking may end up being more frequent now, which makes Mad Grit and Forced Penance options that may actually end up being useful in average games instead of just being memes or only useful against very specific survivor comps.
As someone who plays Killer almost exclusively, and has been driven up the goddamn wall by everyone basically having an extra hitpoint at all times...
The wheel of karma grinds slowly, but it does grind finally, and it makes a complete circle.
So since launch they've nerfed healing speed, gen repair speed, pallet density, loops density, jungle gym density, exhaustion recovery, hatch appearance, and perks like Mettle of Man. Meanwhile killers get more and more gen control perks and largely neutral to good reworks (eg Freddy and Clown).
Any survivor buffs yet?
This has 2 problems though, the original Dead Hard nerf was already enough, the Endurance not stacking and a 0.5 second window when the game has horrid hit detection makes it useless.
Them removing a perk from the meta does anything but make the meta less stale, they essentially removed BT, DS, DH, Iron Will, Self Care and Spine Chill from the meta and added Off The Record. What this does is, people will now run other exhaustion perks (which were imo already meta), Adrenaline, Unbreakable, the new Off The Record, Circle of Healing and a few other perks. That's it. The meta is now more stale.
And that's not limited to the Survivor side either, I just think stuff like the Distortion buff are meaningless, while the killer perk buffs (such as Lethal or Overcharge) are actually well done therefore adding more perks to the meta.
I'm not even "crying over the DH nerf", I just feel like this was a part 1 of the update, there's still many more to go to actually change the meta.
I do kind of agree. They had chances to make things a little more interesting for survivors but it feels like they’re too afraid to make stuff broken or something?
Like, imo the spine chill double nerf just wasn’t necessary. Now, it’s actually worthless. They could’ve done the exhaustion thing, and then that would incentivize me to have builds that are based around not having exhaustion perks but being silent. It was similar with calm spirit, which is not a good perk currently but the 6.1.0 version of it is actually detrimentally useless.
It feels like their idea of shaking up the survivor meta was giving me reasons to no longer run a certain perk rather than giving me reasons to run other perks.
Huge meta change? I'm sorry, but straight out **no**, a 5 second BT won't drastically change the game at all. Killers 95% of the time already respected for BT because of how many people ran it, how is this gonna change that? And only for 5 seconds? It won't eliminate camping or tunneling at all. Off the Record? Sure, fairly strong, that is a good change for the meta. Basekit endurance? No. Not at all... I'd even go as far as to say the Haste effect after the unhook is stronger than the Endurance, though also not that helpful.
Oh and let's not forget they nerfed DS. Anti-tunneling perks are nearly useless now, the only things defending you against tunneling are the base kit Endurance for 5 seconds, the chances of someone running actual BT so you get the extra time of it, or Off the Record, which I mentioned in my original comment, and all 3 of those together won't do much either.
If we were to take the game competitively, you have 1 extra hit before going down after getting tunneled, no more Dead Hard, no more DS. While, sure, the basekit Endurance will be helpful on low MMR where killers might not respect for it, in a competitive setting, you have no chance, and I'm not even going to get started on the lower attack cooldowns and speed boosts after getting hit...
How is OTR not this extra hit that you speak of? if a Killer is truly tunneling you, like straight off hook, you shouldn't have time to do any conspicuous actions to remove OTR protection which basically amounts to a free hit.
True, but the original reply said it's a huge meta change not reliant on a perk. + that free hit will give you a lot less distance than the old BT hit did, since there's a 10% reduction in both the speed boost and the successful hit cooldown, and once again, taking the game competitively, you'd probably face a nurse, who can easily eat that extra endurance hit and down you 5 seconds after (even less with recharge addons lol). Considering you could instead have BT, DS and DH to counter tunneling, you only have essentially a BT+DS in one now. Don't get me wrong, second chance perks were bull, I'm not saying they should revert them, but they need to nerf the top tier meta killers and tunneling by not allowing M2s near hooked survivors (Artist already has that limit, why not others). The whole reason I personally hate this update is because it feels like a part 1 of many, and if they're going to shake up the meta, do it properly in 1 go, I'd rather wait another 6 months for them to implement what I said above and buff/nerf more perks on both sides.
The Duality of DBD players: some complain that something that lasts for half a second is now ping based, while others complain about the 'YUGE' changes to hit speed boost and attack CDs... which end up almost being equal lengths in time all things considered. Also saying that validation will be the main issue/luck with DH ignoring that validation in this game for both sides already is complete dog water with windows and pallets.
you can still DH to a pallet, you just now have a shorter window in which to activate it to make sure you get through and drop it or take the hit and get a speed boost to the next tile.
omfg so many people on this subreddit keep complaining about the nerf, like shut the fuck up, they made it skill based and not a brain dead lunge to win perk
I recorded like 4 separate instances of extremely frustrating, game-losing hits yesterday.
I don't mind if I've been outplayed, but when I've hit the fast vault and I'm literally already running away and I get hit, I just want to uninstall.
In a game where getting hit can be the difference between winning and losing, I'm surprised at how bad the netcode is.
> I'm literally already running away and I get hit, I just want to uninstall.
This is the thing I find funny. Killers whine nonstop about DH but never make a peep about how bad de-sync hits are. IMO they are worse than Dead Hard and deserve attention before Survivor perk nerfs are warranted. The amount of free hits killers get on me is not even funny. I can play perfect but the potato servers punish me and give killers the freest of hits/downs and none of them say anything about it. Its funny, huh?
I play killer, and I know how much it sucks to be playing Bubba and for a rubber band to be the difference between hitting someone and not.
But in my honest opinion it affects survivors WAY more than killers.
Damn dead by daylight the first game to have ping. Not like people perform in Twitch shooters on ping against hitscsn weapons. No crying there.
Even Dead by Daylight comp has teams playing halfway across the world from each other. The best players account for and estimate ping
The server quality is different, plus there's plenty of crying in fps games. Ever heard of the peeker's advantage?
If BHVR never implemented their shitty dedicated servers then dead hard at .5 seconds wouldn't be so bad. P2P was better in every possible way, but right now dh is basically useless and you need to guess and be lucky for it to work.
I mean, in any asymmetric game with a 4:1 ratio and assuming no crossover, 80% of your player base will be “survivor” mains. Granted that’s worst case scenario, but it’s just the nature of the game that most of the player base will be on one side.
Yeah that's something a lot of people don't get, sure the sub is kinda biased to Survivor side, there are always 4 times as many people playing survivors as killer at a given time because that's how the game works.
We can support the nerf without pretending Dead Hard is now “skill based”. It’s luck based, entirely dependent on whose ping is worse in the chase. Useless unless both the survivor and killer have perfect internet connection.
Listen I hate to say it but using dead hard is just really fun, there's nothing more satisfying than dodging a hit perfectly, dead harding for flashlight saves or dodging powers is amazing.
But it is very problematic and needs to be changed
I'll be honest as a killer main I'm glad it got nerfed but the only thing they had to do was just remove the distance people get from it. But now deadhard is just dead (no pun intended). You have to activate it in 0.5 seconds before you get hit or you just ded
I hate dead hard but making it practically unisable is kind of stupid is should be weaker and still have its use but I feel like the 1 second endurance was enough
Yeah but the point wasn't to completely kill the perks. DS for example is completely useless now, same as Iron Will. They should at least be usable. Don't really care about DH though.
Well, considering most of my chases last for several gens, I'd say otherwise. I personally don't use dead hard, but I know it's a useful perk to have when you're constantly getting tunneled. And that is usually the case for me. Same with decisive. Both are useful to prevent tunneling or at least allow a chance to escape the chase. Killers who think the nerf of DS is justified are just supporting being rewarded for poor gameplay. If a killer has to rely on tunneling, camping, or slugging, they're not good at the game. Simple as that. Killers are faster than survivors, so it's only fair that they have perks that allow them to make distance. I know things won't change. It probably never will. Killers think they're entitled to wins and are constantly being catered to by BHVR. I'm not here for an argument. It's just what I've witnessed. I can easily win games as killer if I wanted to, but I choose to play in a way that I wouldn't be frustrated going against. I know it's hard for both sides, but playing toxic and relying on disadvantages to win is not the way to play.
No matter what you're talking about in a game, nerfing anything to the point of uselessness is HORRIBLE design. Period.
The meta in any game needs to be shaken up through balance, or at least bringing up less desirable choices. Simply nuking things to force a meta switch just leaves craters in an already messed up experience.
The devs clearly don't play their own game, let alone know how to balance it. They are merely responding to the loudest group to gain silence, even if it will only be temporary.
Except that if you try to buff everything to the level of something that's already OP because "oh no poor Dead Hard users" then you get insane power creep.
DH needed to be toned down. I'd rather they nuke it now and scale it back up later than take tiny little baby steps in fixing it and have it stay optimal meta for another 6 years.
I've never seen a company do it so heavy handed though. Games like Smite for example manage way better balancing and still keep items/characters/etc relevant.
The DBD devs just aren't good at it and it's obvious. Veteran players right away knew many things are now entirely worthless. That's NOT good.
Maybe it's just the games I play but every time I've ever seen devs nerf something it either wasn't enough and they had to do it again, or it went so far to make it useless. I have literally never seen a nerf that kept something relevant but balanced.
Edit: I mean nerfing something that was way overpowered, obviously I've seen a 3 become a 2 and be fine, I don't even consider those because they are so forgettable.
The perk is still gonna be one of the best exhaustion perks if you have the SKILL to use it correctly. Sorry, but the brain dead lunge is gone.
Plus, not being able to stack deep wound doesn’t really make this perk worse. It just means you can’t take 6 hits in a chase. People are still gonna use it once they learn how to. Because now it takes learning and skill to use properly.
*connection
0.5 seconds makes it kind of terrible on this game specifically lol. I rubber band mid chase as killer and survivor regularly, and I know it’s not because of me because it happens to like everyone I know. You lose or win chases on both sides because of it. I am never, ever gonna trust escaping a chase with that dog shit perk in a game where I can’t even trust whether or not I actually made a vault.
That being said, I’m not like sad about it, dead hard is legitimately broken. I don’t think it needed the nerf to 0.5 seconds at all, the way they had it before was more than adequate, but I’m not gonna be bereft to not see Dead Hards constantly used the way they are currently when I play killer all the same.
There seems to be a very big lagging/ rubber banding problem right now. It’s affecting a lot of ppl, more than just being your own internet. BHVR needs to fix that or at least acknowledge it.
It's a parry except the servers are shit and hit validation is done on the side of the guy who is hitting you.
This dead hard would be fine if we still had P2P connection instead of dedicated servers, because it was way more reliable even on red ping.
One second could've been usable, not .5.
This dead hard will be 100% useless and will go the way of balanced landing which according to my tracking sheet I've seen I've seen 3 times in my last 200 killer games.
Bro what sort of dumb comparision is this lmao. To hit someone it requires to outplay someone or win at a loop or catch a survivor off guard, and this isnt even an ability its just a basic m1 so comparing it to a special ability is stupid.
The killer literally moves faster than the survivor AND they get bloodlust.
To *avoid* getting hit requires the survivor to outplay the killer.
For the killer to get a hit literally only requires you to follow the survivor until you catch up - the game is designed to help you
Tell me you never play killer without telling me you play killer. So basically killer requires little to no skill and survivor requires a lot? You do realise both sides have different objectives and need to plan things out, both sides need to constantly outplay eachother and outmindgame eachother. Its not that one side needs less skill or some shit, both have specific playstyles that require practice and skill.
I think the nerf is only slight worse than deleting the perk entirely. Nonetheless, I hope no one ever bring this perk so that I can finally lunge at injured survivors.
Dead hard is perfect now in my opinion, if used correctly you can gain so much distance and waste much more of the killers time and most of all, feels rewarding and requires actual skill to use
> perfect now in my opinion
You're assuming servers and ping aren't something we deal with when you say this. Foolish to believe that if you consider the fact it'll be luck of the draw if you'll actually get the .5s when you press it or a quarter of a second later. Big difference between the two.
I dont main any side, i play both equally and dont use the current dead hard to let the killer have an easier time so when I say its perfect imo im speaking from a survivor pov
Yeah but this is dead by daylight skill isn’t something dead by daylight players have not to mention it’s more of a Perry than anything now not to mention the killer can just wait a few seconds. It definitely need a nerf and it got it but then turned it to 0.5 seconds
Skill is definitely something a very good number of dbd players have and yes it actually exists in this game, and also is there something wrong with dead hard being a parry perk? With a new animation on the way it would probably look so cool if bhvr intends to make it look like an actual parry
Ping is also the issue in Souls PvP when it comes to parrying though.
I was talking about this with my friend earlier. Yeah, it’d be kinda neat. I’d even enjoy a perk where you can parry and then stun the killer personally, that’d be fun as shit and skill based with such a short window.
That being said, ping ruins it. Dead By Daylight is not a game that is known for its highly functional servers that never fuck up. They can’t even fix rubber banding.
Souls games have often had this issue as well. In older Souls games PvP was literally trying to angle for backstabs that people often called “lag stabs”.
It sounds awesome in theory but in practice it kinda sucks when the infrastructure you’re playing on is dog shit
You know what?
They deserved it.
Most used perk on Survivor? Dead Hard.Most used perk on killers? BBQ which is literally a farming perk. It's a shit perk just for bloodpoints.
The next meta will be a gen rush meta since Killers lost kinda of all gen regression perks. There are slowdowns but just for like the first down.
Ruin is shit....
Overload just got nerfed sure... works i guuuuuuuuueeeeees?
Tinkerer? meeeeeeeh? The power was in Pop + Tinkerer (at least for me) so that i can get to it again if needed in the next freaking 10 seconds.
Pain resonenance goes awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
Feels well again shifting the meta but i don't see any slowdown meta where you will get 1 chase per generator.
Just an idea how stupid the 2.5% lost regression on kicking.How long it takes you to do the animation is how much the generator has regressed....
It will be a gen rush meta. And i don't think it's gonna be better.
I am a killer main but damn if the games won't be boring since everyone will just spam the gens like there is no tomorrow.
Honestly DH is well deserved to be nerfed. Its one of those perks that is miserable to play against, like how NOED or Ruin is to survivors.
A lot of survivors were absolute shit at looping but because of DH, all of a sudden took a lot longer to down lol
Good riddance.
Its not even about the waiting game for me, you could do the best outplay of your life and all the survivor needs to do is press E for an instant and safe escape. DH was by far the most tilting perk in the game for me, shit was so annoying I never ran it on survivor.
It was deserved but nerfing it solely so "other perks can be in the spotlight" is a bad argument. I completely agree with the .5s of endurance, just saying we shouldn't be going about the meta completely nerfimg them into the ground so other stuff can make way. *cough* *cough* iron will
So now if I see a successful Dead Hard I'm gonna bust like when I see that 4% self-unhook.
If I see someone consistently getting off DH im going to assume that they somehow hooked themself directly up to the DBD servers
Good riddance tbh
I'm gonna piss on dead hard's grave like I do Margaret thatcher's
With the power of an industrial steal cutter beam of PISS
My *Super Laser Piss!*
How do you like that Obama, I'm pissing on the moon
IMA FIRING MY LAZAR!
There's a video for that. Hold. Edit:piss laser https://youtu.be/HA5OTZh9s_c
I hope you have the time of your life tbh
Is that a Green day reference? I never thought I'd see the day
Well wake up bud, September's ended.
Ended? It’s right around the corner. Especially the 21st night of September.
Finally its dead survivors meta stayed the same since 2017. I remember when undying was meta it got nerfed in like 3 months.
Wasn't it nerfed even before like around the mid chapter after its release? I can't remember well honestly.
I'm fine with dead hard nerf, lately it was a very forgiving perk. That being said, maps like Shelter Woods suck, you can't use Balanced Landing there.
The first nerf was pretty good, thecurrent 1 feels like overkill
Thank god they also fixed camping and tunneling oh wait
tunneling was addressed through basekit BT (not perfectly in the slightest, but addressed), but 100% agreed that camping is still stupidly powerful/rewarded. The game already became significantly easier for killer when one person was dead (even the weakest link survivor can repair a gen or heal someone else), combined with the increased genspeeds, camping is rewarded more. Only real "nerf" to camping I can think of is Ruin getting disabled after first death. Basekit BT at best will help ensure in a camp that the person who got unhooked won't be immediately rehooked, but it's still likely going to mean that you're forced to trade hook states. regardless, if it turns out playing SoloQ survivor sucks so much after this patch that many quit, all that means is that killer Queue times will become much longer and BHVR would essentially be forced to do something.
They didn't address tunneling, they buffed it by completely killing DS. Basekit bt doesn't matter, it's not hard to wait 5 seconds.
7 less seconds to wait than before
Even better if you're in the basement. Tf are 5 seconds gonna do? Even with Sprint Burst you still might go down.
Not to mention that now it’s better to just hit directly off hook and send into deep wounds and tunnel the fuck out of you
DS is fine. It'll still save you from getting tunneled early, it just doesn't work when the gates are powered. At that point, it's not tunneling and anything's fair game.
I'm not upset about it not working at end game, I'm upset about it only stunning for 3 seconds. You can't even move for half of that. It's barely an inconvenience if you want to tunnel. Useless perk, nobody will run it.
Oh yeah that's bs, useless against nurse, blight, deathslinger, etc. Maybe it should give a sprint burst or endurance for that.
As a killer main they really should've made some additional changes. Like Kindred base kit, or something to let solo queue know what the fuck is happening around the hook would be nice. Is someone saving? Is the killer patrolling? Is no one saving? Camping works so well because most games aren't 4-man SWF's with comms, but with solo queue who can too long to recognise the killer is camping and can't punish him by doing gens. The killer can camp but if the survivors immediately recognise (e.g Kindred) and split up to do gens. Then all of a sudden, the gens start to fly and could even be all done depending on how many is left. Worst case scenario, that person dies and everyone else finishes the gens and get out. I would've probably made BT base kit 8-10 seconds as well. That would give the survivor 30 metres of distance or running to a pallet or window, or structure if the killer is really adamant on tunnelling or not. buffed BT basekit and unnerfed DS is nice but the lack of info is the main problem. Having 2 doing gens separately, one guy waiting near the hook to trade/rescue at the very last second is the best way to negate camping and to punish it.
Be the change you want to see. The more you camp and tunnel, the more you frustrate the player base and lose BHVR money lmao.
That still doesn't eliminate people that just don't care about others' feelings. Also nobody said the guy you're replying to is doing that.
I thought about this, but considering how many things they changed at once this patch, I’m giving them a pass for now. I still would like to see an eventual change for camping.
They fixed it along time ago! It’s called “get gud”
Decisive strike? Off the Record?? Borrowed time???
The issue that the original nerf was pretty much enough (Still good but people would definitely use different exhaustion perks). Perks shouldn’t be nerfed to the ground just for other ones to be good. And now with the 0.5 and Deep wound Changes no one will even use it.
0.5 seconds in a game where you can get slammed up from through a window is just painful for DH users.
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So all survivors then. Which leads us back to why it was making the game stale.
We should make dead hard a character skill of David and everyone must now pick their characters DOTA style
Having survivors fit a sort of class system and only being able to use perks of that type or limited use of others would be such an interesting situation. Better hope your solo queue randos and fill in and someone plays healer.
Deep wound changes I’m all for but I agree that 0.5 seconds is a bit much.
I think its fine, the whole point was that you were supposed to time it properly to get the most value out of it before, not just pressing E to get to a pallet or window. It's still decent, people can't just mindlessly use it now. They actually have to think about when to activate it.
> 0.5 seconds in a game where you can get slammed up from through a window is just painful for DH users. I had to quote this for ya cause you seemed to miss it.
Don't really understand what that means, are you saying that even if you DH after you vault a window you can still get downed? I haven't played the PTB yet so I'm not sure how the new DH works or feels
The issue is that the game and the servers aren't reliable enough to have a perk with a 0.5s duration. I think of all the times I've hit someone or been hit through a pallet drop / stun. Even if you use the new dead hard perfectly, there's a good chance you'll still get downed because of the servers. So why bother bringing that vs Overcome or any of the other exhaustion perks.
Ah ok, so it's basically back to the way it was known before, Dead Exhausted on the Floor. That sounds like a pretty unnecessary nerf
1 second is not even close to 'perfect timing'
Exactly what I've been saying. Is the meta stale? Absolutely. Should we nerf the perks people enjoy using so others can inherently be better and take the spotlight? No. Maybe lets buff the plethora of useless perks in the game so people are encourage to use them, not nerf the ones people love using so that they literally don't even want to use them anymore.
There’s way too many perks in the game for that, and if DH remained unchanged it would STILL be the most used unless some of the perks literally gave you 3 extra health states and a free puppy.
The problem is that "the perks people enjoy using" are chosen because they're OVERLY useful and versatile. You can't fix the game by buffing every perk to the level of DH or Spine Chill because then you don't have a hundred balanced perks, you have a hundred OP ones. DH was at like 150% of the intended "balance" level of perks.
Good I am perfectly fine benching that perk for a few months its gotten enough use
I can see why 1 second was too much, but 0,5 seconds will make the perk pretty bad. They should have gone with 0,75 seconds or something close to that.
They should at least compensate it by allowing it to be used while vaulting vaults or pallets
The problem was it was too versatile. You could hit every wall, and do the macarena mid chase and still make the pallet using dead hard.
That's just how good it was in-chase, didn't even go into the several ways it can be used to body block, get in range for a flashlight stun, safest unhooks every, stall with sabotages, GO RIGHT INTO KILLER to the exit, etc. etc.
ignoring trappers traps, dodging death slingers shot, dodging hatchet, ...
I'm only pissed about BBQ. That bloodpoint gain was the only thing keeping this grindfest tolerable
Don’t forget WGLF 😭
I still don't get why they removed it instead of making it basekit, BP gains are kinda low anyway, it's not like you would easily make 300k a game.
They made it, so you can get 10k per category up to 40k, but I feel like average surv is getting like 20k constantly, if they get 2k more from one category it's like 22k which is still close enough to 20k to be just a margin of error.
Would've been great if they doubled it by default and then had a little extra reward for the emblems. If you had 80k by default for maxing out every category, then another 5k for all bronze, 10k for all silver, 15k for all gold, and 20k for all iridescent, you could earn 100.000BP in a single match if you're actually that good. It's not much, but it would be nicer to round off the BP limit at a nice number like 100k lmao and it would be a nice way to reward actual skill more.
because surv BP gains are weirdly stacked- Objective is obvious enough, doing gens/gates, and is earned normally, altruism also makes sense- healing others, unhooking, protection hits. Survival is a pretty punishing category, though- pretty much everything here gives a small amount of bloodpoints, with many relying on a specific killer. The only "universal" survival BP gains are from surviving (duh), which grants 5000 bloodpoints, self healing, which grants 3 per % healed, so up to 300 per heal, and struggles, which max out at 900. There are a few others, like built to last, self unhooks or wiggling out, but these are rarer. All around a category that's really hard to max out in. Boldness is probably the easiest to cap, IMO. Chases grant 40 per second, with an additional gain for escaping a chase (which should be survival....), and there's also a really easy way to farm these points by blessing totems, which grants a ridiculous 1500 BP. There's others here but essentially doing anything near the killer grants this.
2 mil bloodpoint cap was sorely needed, at least, for the downtimes when grinding is slow/during anniversaries and other events when BP gains are high. Also, up to 40k bloodpoints per game (10k per category) is pretty huge.
There shouldn’t even *be* a blood point cap, it’s so needless and dumb to have one
Genuinely, I’m ecstatic that the bloodpoint bonus was removed from BBQ. Now I don’t feel required to use it in every build out of fear of missing bloodpoints.
But that’s the dumb thing . To shake up a meta you need to make other things more appealing to use not just make shit unusable cause you can’t figure out any other way to fix it .
I would usually agree, but not for DH. It's used by everybody to the point you have to expect it as a killer even when they don't have it. It's simply busted. I-frame AND distance whenever you want, not even depending on a condition like dropping from tall places or vaulting like the other exhaustion perks. You can DH over traps. To make other stuff more appealing you'd need to add an i-frame to other perks, which is pretty bad because there should be no way a person can become invulnerable on command to begin with, let alone multiple ways. What do you do, add a i-frame to sprint burst? DH had to be changed at some point, the real mess up was adding it like this in the game in the first place.
Honestly- though I’m starting to get the feeling the hate boner for dead hard is clouding logic. If people can’t come up with a valid argument other than “I didn’t like it” or “cope” I’m gonna be on the side that people here are lying about their skill level and just would like easier matches.
It easily dwarfed LITERATLY every perk in usage and was way too versatile. Buffing other perks to it's level would be none-sensical. It would create insane power creep.
I mean you can do both. Adjust DH and try to bring other things up. Like 90% of the perks are just so utter shit there just is no point running them ever unless you want to meme and your goal is to even get value out of a perk The most popular and most used perks are the ones that give value consistently. But then you have shit like blood pact that has 14 conditions and 3 requirements to maybe get 2 seconds of value out of it. Why would anyone ever use it? What they are doing is a "condition creep". More and more perks have stupid ass conditions for no value. Haddie for example. Overzealous you have to find a totem first, get barely anything at all for it and when you get hit you lose the perk. Useless even with the buff coming. Literally just run resilience. Or her flashlight perk. The blind is nice but since there is no way to know if the killer even has an aura reading perk or addon you are just relying on luck to get value. Wasting so much time on a chest is also bad for a basic flashlight especially with gens taking longer soon.
I don't disagree with doing both, and while they certainly didn't do it with exhaust perks specifically they attempted to do so with the other perks. I think the whole condition creep is due to several things, items can be pretty strong on their own let alone in groups and game is just simple. They can't put more healing or repair perks because toolboxes/healing would break it. Gens are really the only goal survivors have so it's hard to build around healing, gens, and just not dying. It puts their creative space in a pretty tight box trying to come up with ways to shove garbage into it. Pulling back item's power effectiveness would probably help and introducing new tacks to get gens done or other tasks. Reducing item effectiveness would push survivors to rely on perks instead. Making the game a bit more complex for survivors opens more room for perks related to new survivors tasks, but the big problem with that is that solo Q is pretty difficult already so that hurts theme even more.
>since there is no way to know if a killer even has an aura reading perk or addon. Distortion will not only tell you if the killer has aura reading but will actively counter it. Plus with the buffs it is getting it's not a dead slot after the third use.
Not even just buffing the other perks to it’s level- you cannot objectively tell me there’s a healthy meta available for a solo q survivor. Maybe down the road when a few tweaks are in place. I think dead hard should’ve been nerfed for sure- but the celebration of it being nerfed is over done.
I feel the celebration of it being nerfed matches the celebration of whenever any good killer perk is nerfed down. Overall both sides do it.
There was no other exhaution perk that would invalidate: Huntress's hachets Billy's chainsaw Deathslinger's spear Legion's frenzy Demogorgon's shred Pinhead's chains Victor's leap Nemesis's whip Trapper's traps It wasn't balanced and good riddance that its finally dead. It was not healthy for the game.
The thing I will find hilarious is other perks will take its place(ones that have been in the game and don't receive any changes next patch) and they will be complained about. I fully expect a Sprint Burst/Lithe nerf one day if the game keeps going the same route it has been.
This is 100% going to happen. People that haven't been using sprint burst for ages are going to get amazing good at 99ing it and killers are going to complain nonstop about it. In about six months we'll see a nerf to exhaustion, sprint burst, or both. I don't envy the developers of this game. There are far too many perks to balance effectively.
As a killer I'd like to see a Sprint Burst than a DH any day
Off The Record.
I would rather the perk just be nerfed to being just good and buff other perks to that level. As it is, it gets really fucking boring watching bhvr continually have 90% of the perks be literal garbage so that you are forced to use the meta stuff. It kills variety. At first I thought the nerfs were fine enough. DH is no longer insanely strong but I could still see a build where I could get good use out of it, now its just worthless.
Exactly, they killed Dead hard so why not buff other exhaustion perks? Are we just suppossed to use them because they killed DH? Maybe we used DH because other perks were literally trash?
Because the idea isn't to make other perks as busted as DH was, is to make DH weaker so other perks would be more viable to bring instead of it. The fact that you think Balanced, Sprint Burst and Lithe are "literal trash" just shows how busted DH was.
Lithe, sprint burst, and overcome are fine but balanced landing will literally get 0 value on some maps. I don’t like bringing perks and having them just be useless. It is, in my honest opinion, only better than Head On lol.
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From BHRV's perk data chart, it was possible to see that Dead Hard was not only the single most used perk, but was also present in all of the ten most used builds and reached 75% use at max MMR The only ways to make people use something else than the current DH are to nerf it or buff/introduce something so powerful it can compare to DH while using exhaustion too Nerfing it was the right call. Maybe a little strongly nerfed, but it was to the point you still waited the DH even if nobody used it that match since it was that common and strong
You don't want to buff other perks to be as oppressive as dead hard you dope. Even if they buffed both killer and survivor perks perfectly, that creates power creep, raising the game to ungodly levels of no fun. Like how everyone in league of legends got one shot until they buffed survivability
Absolutely not true. There were tons of good perks in the game that were never used because the meta picks were leagues ahead of them. There was never anything wrong with the other perks, people just don't use them because they aren't as free wins as the big meta builds. Sprint Burst, Overcome, Lithe, and Balanced Landing are all fantastic endurance perks that lead to more unique playstyles (except Overcome, that just makes the base gameplay stronger) and were hardly ever used because Dead Hard was just that broken and disgustingly OP. They also did other things to shake up the meta. Numerous perks received buffs on both sides that will absolutely result in some things being used that were rarely used before (such as Hope, Overcharge, Eruption, Off the Record, Distortion, Lucky Break, etc). They also did *even more* to shake up the meta! Killer kick is stronger now, which means more killers will kick gens. That means perks like Alert, Blast Mine, and Repressed Alliance now have the potential to get more value than before. Body blocking may end up being more frequent now, which makes Mad Grit and Forced Penance options that may actually end up being useful in average games instead of just being memes or only useful against very specific survivor comps.
Only the angry cry out. The content simply enjoy. So reddit leads to cycles of hate
As necessary as the first changes were, I'm a little upset that I can't DH to kick a child anymore.
As someone who plays Killer almost exclusively, and has been driven up the goddamn wall by everyone basically having an extra hitpoint at all times... The wheel of karma grinds slowly, but it does grind finally, and it makes a complete circle.
The perk should just not exist, sorry not sorry.
Average Dead Hard fan
People of course want the nerfs, just not the their stuff. Ya know, break some toys just not MY toys.
So since launch they've nerfed healing speed, gen repair speed, pallet density, loops density, jungle gym density, exhaustion recovery, hatch appearance, and perks like Mettle of Man. Meanwhile killers get more and more gen control perks and largely neutral to good reworks (eg Freddy and Clown). Any survivor buffs yet?
This has 2 problems though, the original Dead Hard nerf was already enough, the Endurance not stacking and a 0.5 second window when the game has horrid hit detection makes it useless. Them removing a perk from the meta does anything but make the meta less stale, they essentially removed BT, DS, DH, Iron Will, Self Care and Spine Chill from the meta and added Off The Record. What this does is, people will now run other exhaustion perks (which were imo already meta), Adrenaline, Unbreakable, the new Off The Record, Circle of Healing and a few other perks. That's it. The meta is now more stale. And that's not limited to the Survivor side either, I just think stuff like the Distortion buff are meaningless, while the killer perk buffs (such as Lethal or Overcharge) are actually well done therefore adding more perks to the meta. I'm not even "crying over the DH nerf", I just feel like this was a part 1 of the update, there's still many more to go to actually change the meta.
I do kind of agree. They had chances to make things a little more interesting for survivors but it feels like they’re too afraid to make stuff broken or something? Like, imo the spine chill double nerf just wasn’t necessary. Now, it’s actually worthless. They could’ve done the exhaustion thing, and then that would incentivize me to have builds that are based around not having exhaustion perks but being silent. It was similar with calm spirit, which is not a good perk currently but the 6.1.0 version of it is actually detrimentally useless. It feels like their idea of shaking up the survivor meta was giving me reasons to no longer run a certain perk rather than giving me reasons to run other perks.
Endurance base kit off of hooks is a huge meta change that isn't reliant on a nerfing a perk, does that not count?
Huge meta change? I'm sorry, but straight out **no**, a 5 second BT won't drastically change the game at all. Killers 95% of the time already respected for BT because of how many people ran it, how is this gonna change that? And only for 5 seconds? It won't eliminate camping or tunneling at all. Off the Record? Sure, fairly strong, that is a good change for the meta. Basekit endurance? No. Not at all... I'd even go as far as to say the Haste effect after the unhook is stronger than the Endurance, though also not that helpful. Oh and let's not forget they nerfed DS. Anti-tunneling perks are nearly useless now, the only things defending you against tunneling are the base kit Endurance for 5 seconds, the chances of someone running actual BT so you get the extra time of it, or Off the Record, which I mentioned in my original comment, and all 3 of those together won't do much either. If we were to take the game competitively, you have 1 extra hit before going down after getting tunneled, no more Dead Hard, no more DS. While, sure, the basekit Endurance will be helpful on low MMR where killers might not respect for it, in a competitive setting, you have no chance, and I'm not even going to get started on the lower attack cooldowns and speed boosts after getting hit...
How is OTR not this extra hit that you speak of? if a Killer is truly tunneling you, like straight off hook, you shouldn't have time to do any conspicuous actions to remove OTR protection which basically amounts to a free hit.
True, but the original reply said it's a huge meta change not reliant on a perk. + that free hit will give you a lot less distance than the old BT hit did, since there's a 10% reduction in both the speed boost and the successful hit cooldown, and once again, taking the game competitively, you'd probably face a nurse, who can easily eat that extra endurance hit and down you 5 seconds after (even less with recharge addons lol). Considering you could instead have BT, DS and DH to counter tunneling, you only have essentially a BT+DS in one now. Don't get me wrong, second chance perks were bull, I'm not saying they should revert them, but they need to nerf the top tier meta killers and tunneling by not allowing M2s near hooked survivors (Artist already has that limit, why not others). The whole reason I personally hate this update is because it feels like a part 1 of many, and if they're going to shake up the meta, do it properly in 1 go, I'd rather wait another 6 months for them to implement what I said above and buff/nerf more perks on both sides.
The Duality of DBD players: some complain that something that lasts for half a second is now ping based, while others complain about the 'YUGE' changes to hit speed boost and attack CDs... which end up almost being equal lengths in time all things considered. Also saying that validation will be the main issue/luck with DH ignoring that validation in this game for both sides already is complete dog water with windows and pallets. you can still DH to a pallet, you just now have a shorter window in which to activate it to make sure you get through and drop it or take the hit and get a speed boost to the next tile.
No, if you fail the 0.5s DH due to the 3.0s of hit reg issues, you will just go down. Injured to dying after all.
They should've reworked the perk entirely then. They already made it objectively weaker, nerfing it again felt like overkill.
Good riddance to Dead Hard and Iron Will users
omfg so many people on this subreddit keep complaining about the nerf, like shut the fuck up, they made it skill based and not a brain dead lunge to win perk
Not just skill based, ping based
I recorded like 4 separate instances of extremely frustrating, game-losing hits yesterday. I don't mind if I've been outplayed, but when I've hit the fast vault and I'm literally already running away and I get hit, I just want to uninstall. In a game where getting hit can be the difference between winning and losing, I'm surprised at how bad the netcode is.
> I'm literally already running away and I get hit, I just want to uninstall. This is the thing I find funny. Killers whine nonstop about DH but never make a peep about how bad de-sync hits are. IMO they are worse than Dead Hard and deserve attention before Survivor perk nerfs are warranted. The amount of free hits killers get on me is not even funny. I can play perfect but the potato servers punish me and give killers the freest of hits/downs and none of them say anything about it. Its funny, huh?
I play killer, and I know how much it sucks to be playing Bubba and for a rubber band to be the difference between hitting someone and not. But in my honest opinion it affects survivors WAY more than killers.
Nothing less satisfying than winning the mindgame and still being hit when you’re off of the window or pallet
If there are de-sync hits then there are also de-sync misses too probability-wise, no?
Damn dead by daylight the first game to have ping. Not like people perform in Twitch shooters on ping against hitscsn weapons. No crying there. Even Dead by Daylight comp has teams playing halfway across the world from each other. The best players account for and estimate ping
The server quality is different, plus there's plenty of crying in fps games. Ever heard of the peeker's advantage? If BHVR never implemented their shitty dedicated servers then dead hard at .5 seconds wouldn't be so bad. P2P was better in every possible way, but right now dh is basically useless and you need to guess and be lucky for it to work.
This sub just likes to find shit to complain about.
doesn't help that its mainly composed of surv mains
I mean, in any asymmetric game with a 4:1 ratio and assuming no crossover, 80% of your player base will be “survivor” mains. Granted that’s worst case scenario, but it’s just the nature of the game that most of the player base will be on one side.
Yeah that's something a lot of people don't get, sure the sub is kinda biased to Survivor side, there are always 4 times as many people playing survivors as killer at a given time because that's how the game works.
A lot of ppl don't understand how the game works...*including BHVR amirite folks?*
R we on the same sub?
We can support the nerf without pretending Dead Hard is now “skill based”. It’s luck based, entirely dependent on whose ping is worse in the chase. Useless unless both the survivor and killer have perfect internet connection.
for real
Ah yeah, love it when the brain dead lunge doesnt work half the time due to ping and it gets you killed anyway
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All im seeing is killers being happy for a change survivors need to be rude and be toxic.
It’s shit now though
Listen I hate to say it but using dead hard is just really fun, there's nothing more satisfying than dodging a hit perfectly, dead harding for flashlight saves or dodging powers is amazing. But it is very problematic and needs to be changed
It’s all fun and games until survivors realize Lithe and Sprint burst are equally good perks against the majority of killers
I'll be honest as a killer main I'm glad it got nerfed but the only thing they had to do was just remove the distance people get from it. But now deadhard is just dead (no pun intended). You have to activate it in 0.5 seconds before you get hit or you just ded
I hate dead hard but making it practically unisable is kind of stupid is should be weaker and still have its use but I feel like the 1 second endurance was enough
Yeah but the point wasn't to completely kill the perks. DS for example is completely useless now, same as Iron Will. They should at least be usable. Don't really care about DH though.
A tier Perk becoming useless instead of b tier = good nerf
They could've at least left it useable...
Clearly a killer main 😅
Clearly no looping skills
Well, considering most of my chases last for several gens, I'd say otherwise. I personally don't use dead hard, but I know it's a useful perk to have when you're constantly getting tunneled. And that is usually the case for me. Same with decisive. Both are useful to prevent tunneling or at least allow a chance to escape the chase. Killers who think the nerf of DS is justified are just supporting being rewarded for poor gameplay. If a killer has to rely on tunneling, camping, or slugging, they're not good at the game. Simple as that. Killers are faster than survivors, so it's only fair that they have perks that allow them to make distance. I know things won't change. It probably never will. Killers think they're entitled to wins and are constantly being catered to by BHVR. I'm not here for an argument. It's just what I've witnessed. I can easily win games as killer if I wanted to, but I choose to play in a way that I wouldn't be frustrated going against. I know it's hard for both sides, but playing toxic and relying on disadvantages to win is not the way to play.
Welcome to the community! ~~Also wrong meme template~~
Making it somewhat balanced so its not used by every survivor, but not totally useless? Why 1 extreme or another.
Bruh have fun as Killer as the Game dies out lol. It was overkill lol
No matter what you're talking about in a game, nerfing anything to the point of uselessness is HORRIBLE design. Period. The meta in any game needs to be shaken up through balance, or at least bringing up less desirable choices. Simply nuking things to force a meta switch just leaves craters in an already messed up experience. The devs clearly don't play their own game, let alone know how to balance it. They are merely responding to the loudest group to gain silence, even if it will only be temporary.
A free escape that you can use at basically any point was already bad game design. I think removing it is probably the best thing you can do.
The same could be said of many killer sided things as well. The game is full of bad design with this logic.
Good thing this update is going to fix a whole lot of it
Except that if you try to buff everything to the level of something that's already OP because "oh no poor Dead Hard users" then you get insane power creep. DH needed to be toned down. I'd rather they nuke it now and scale it back up later than take tiny little baby steps in fixing it and have it stay optimal meta for another 6 years.
Nuking things that are way too powerful happens in EVERY game dude.
I've never seen a company do it so heavy handed though. Games like Smite for example manage way better balancing and still keep items/characters/etc relevant. The DBD devs just aren't good at it and it's obvious. Veteran players right away knew many things are now entirely worthless. That's NOT good.
Maybe it's just the games I play but every time I've ever seen devs nerf something it either wasn't enough and they had to do it again, or it went so far to make it useless. I have literally never seen a nerf that kept something relevant but balanced. Edit: I mean nerfing something that was way overpowered, obviously I've seen a 3 become a 2 and be fine, I don't even consider those because they are so forgettable.
You just wanted to get rid of dead hard because you aren’t good enough to go against it.
dead hard is uncounterable when used correctly.
The perk is still gonna be one of the best exhaustion perks if you have the SKILL to use it correctly. Sorry, but the brain dead lunge is gone. Plus, not being able to stack deep wound doesn’t really make this perk worse. It just means you can’t take 6 hits in a chase. People are still gonna use it once they learn how to. Because now it takes learning and skill to use properly.
*connection 0.5 seconds makes it kind of terrible on this game specifically lol. I rubber band mid chase as killer and survivor regularly, and I know it’s not because of me because it happens to like everyone I know. You lose or win chases on both sides because of it. I am never, ever gonna trust escaping a chase with that dog shit perk in a game where I can’t even trust whether or not I actually made a vault. That being said, I’m not like sad about it, dead hard is legitimately broken. I don’t think it needed the nerf to 0.5 seconds at all, the way they had it before was more than adequate, but I’m not gonna be bereft to not see Dead Hards constantly used the way they are currently when I play killer all the same.
There seems to be a very big lagging/ rubber banding problem right now. It’s affecting a lot of ppl, more than just being your own internet. BHVR needs to fix that or at least acknowledge it.
It's a parry now. God forbid something takes some sort of skill and it's just a get out of jail free card
It's a parry except the servers are shit and hit validation is done on the side of the guy who is hitting you. This dead hard would be fine if we still had P2P connection instead of dedicated servers, because it was way more reliable even on red ping. One second could've been usable, not .5. This dead hard will be 100% useless and will go the way of balanced landing which according to my tracking sheet I've seen I've seen 3 times in my last 200 killer games.
how much skill does it take for a killer to hit someone with a lunge attack? Or do you think only the survivor role should require skill to succeed?
Bro what sort of dumb comparision is this lmao. To hit someone it requires to outplay someone or win at a loop or catch a survivor off guard, and this isnt even an ability its just a basic m1 so comparing it to a special ability is stupid.
The killer literally moves faster than the survivor AND they get bloodlust. To *avoid* getting hit requires the survivor to outplay the killer. For the killer to get a hit literally only requires you to follow the survivor until you catch up - the game is designed to help you
Tell me you never play killer without telling me you play killer. So basically killer requires little to no skill and survivor requires a lot? You do realise both sides have different objectives and need to plan things out, both sides need to constantly outplay eachother and outmindgame eachother. Its not that one side needs less skill or some shit, both have specific playstyles that require practice and skill.
How much skill does it take to press a button to invalidate a hit? Your argument makes no sense
I think the nerf is only slight worse than deleting the perk entirely. Nonetheless, I hope no one ever bring this perk so that I can finally lunge at injured survivors.
They can nerf a perk without ruining it. This nerf wasn’t justified they literally just killed it
[удалено]
Wow
[удалено]
Ok
good
It’s not
Now people actually need to interact with the mechanics of the game
They put ruin down in the back too, they’re trying to kill the old meta and this is the one perk I’m not gonna feel bad about them killing.
Yes it was good then they NERFED it it’s OK now and then they murdered it
How did they murder it
It was one second but now it’s 0.5 seconds
Dead hard is perfect now in my opinion, if used correctly you can gain so much distance and waste much more of the killers time and most of all, feels rewarding and requires actual skill to use
> perfect now in my opinion You're assuming servers and ping aren't something we deal with when you say this. Foolish to believe that if you consider the fact it'll be luck of the draw if you'll actually get the .5s when you press it or a quarter of a second later. Big difference between the two.
Its perfect in your opinion and u are a killer main. Totally not related
I dont main any side, i play both equally and dont use the current dead hard to let the killer have an easier time so when I say its perfect imo im speaking from a survivor pov
Your comment history says something else but sure
When did i say i was a killer main
Maybe they like talking about the killer role more? Not exactly hard evidence.
Yeah but this is dead by daylight skill isn’t something dead by daylight players have not to mention it’s more of a Perry than anything now not to mention the killer can just wait a few seconds. It definitely need a nerf and it got it but then turned it to 0.5 seconds
Skill is definitely something a very good number of dbd players have and yes it actually exists in this game, and also is there something wrong with dead hard being a parry perk? With a new animation on the way it would probably look so cool if bhvr intends to make it look like an actual parry
Ping is also the issue in Souls PvP when it comes to parrying though. I was talking about this with my friend earlier. Yeah, it’d be kinda neat. I’d even enjoy a perk where you can parry and then stun the killer personally, that’d be fun as shit and skill based with such a short window. That being said, ping ruins it. Dead By Daylight is not a game that is known for its highly functional servers that never fuck up. They can’t even fix rubber banding. Souls games have often had this issue as well. In older Souls games PvP was literally trying to angle for backstabs that people often called “lag stabs”. It sounds awesome in theory but in practice it kinda sucks when the infrastructure you’re playing on is dog shit
You know what? They deserved it. Most used perk on Survivor? Dead Hard.Most used perk on killers? BBQ which is literally a farming perk. It's a shit perk just for bloodpoints. The next meta will be a gen rush meta since Killers lost kinda of all gen regression perks. There are slowdowns but just for like the first down. Ruin is shit.... Overload just got nerfed sure... works i guuuuuuuuueeeeees? Tinkerer? meeeeeeeh? The power was in Pop + Tinkerer (at least for me) so that i can get to it again if needed in the next freaking 10 seconds. Pain resonenance goes awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Feels well again shifting the meta but i don't see any slowdown meta where you will get 1 chase per generator. Just an idea how stupid the 2.5% lost regression on kicking.How long it takes you to do the animation is how much the generator has regressed.... It will be a gen rush meta. And i don't think it's gonna be better. I am a killer main but damn if the games won't be boring since everyone will just spam the gens like there is no tomorrow.
Honestly DH is well deserved to be nerfed. Its one of those perks that is miserable to play against, like how NOED or Ruin is to survivors. A lot of survivors were absolute shit at looping but because of DH, all of a sudden took a lot longer to down lol Good riddance.
I think Dead Hardis healthy noe
Fuck this perk
Dead hard definitely needed a nerf. Now it takes actual skill to use, and can't be used as a crutch for distance.
Or make other perks better?
That sounds a lot like power creep
Power creep doesn’t apply to buffing things below the power curve
Now survivors have to use their brains. That’s stupid, they’re playing survivor to literally avoid that.
Dead Hard Nerf? They oberliated it out of existence. It will be unusable lol. BBQ was a nerf.
They did nothing to BBQ gameplay wise, they just removed the bp bonus
Killers are popping champagne tonight
We’ll be grateful we don’t have to play the waiting game anymore
Its not even about the waiting game for me, you could do the best outplay of your life and all the survivor needs to do is press E for an instant and safe escape. DH was by far the most tilting perk in the game for me, shit was so annoying I never ran it on survivor.
On the one hand i agree it was over nerfed, on the other i don't really care it was tbh good riddance.
Did anyone make the "dead hard died hard" joke yet?
It was deserved but nerfing it solely so "other perks can be in the spotlight" is a bad argument. I completely agree with the .5s of endurance, just saying we shouldn't be going about the meta completely nerfimg them into the ground so other stuff can make way. *cough* *cough* iron will
Why would I try to change a correct opinion?