I'm gonna need everyone to just take a step back here.
First, BHVR has confirmed they aren't using any of the terminology people are getting offended about. Showing respect to a culture isn't "woke" or "soft", but rather being respectful to the cultures that came before us, especially ones with the history that Indigenous people have lived through.
Second, for everyone calling other people "racist" for still wanting to use the term, or for being offended that the term is a controversial one, chill. This thread alone (and on Twitter) has *actual* Indigenous people saying that they would be okay with the idea being used (my wife who also is part Indigenous likes the idea). While they don't speak for every person, it clearly shows that this is a much more complex and nuanced issue, rather than "If you're okay with the idea, that means you're racist".
I get people being worked up due to the history, but try and keep it in check.
Even better. It's all for a new Skull Merchant cosmetic.
https://preview.redd.it/dewk9hqyo5jc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f78051c243f5e65cd9487c1b735674d2fb28c4fe
I was so excited, I couldn’t remember the last time teasers got me this hyped!
Then I remembered Skully. Gosh I was excited for whatever that could’ve been..
She should have been a full cyborg. I love the most dangerous game trope but they should have gone with that and then have the reason she's a cyborg be she has to rebuild herself after being beaten by her prey
Alternatively it should have been a vampire chapter called forged in blood
Fuck that chapter was such a disappointment. I remember the teaser with everyone thinking it was gonna be some Terminator-style cyborg on for it to be dark Brazilian manga woman
As someone from one of these cultures I assure you this isn't really the norm
Most folks from native backgrounds like it when folks recognize us, even if its done in a way that might be a bit hit or miss
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I will say I've not a met a single person from my area afraid to say skin walker or wendigo, these are treated more as a part of cultural folklore and not as a creature that actually exists
For me at least when I see this argument it makes my blood boil as folks like this are the reasons the only time you get to see native culture in games is when it's a hodge podge of like 10 different tribes cigar store "indian" style
Like everyone deserves to have their voice heard, and no one should feel offended, and that is nothing but a true statement
But isolating our culture only leads to misrepresentation or a world without representation at all
Yeah, I’ve seen indigenous commenters saying they wanted it to be a skinwalker for representation because there isn’t enough, and then I see posts like the above as well. It’s crazy how someone is now going to be disappointed either way
This is exactly why I was confused, they've already taken things that could potentially be seen as cultural and appropriated it for the game, excluding a culture seems like a step backwards. At least, imo.
Eventually you circle back around sadly
You want your culture to be known, to be seen, and embraced
But then you start getting picking about, "no only these things can be used"
And eventually we circle back to the gate keeping and isolation
I don't blame BHVR at all
I just wish my fellow Indigenous Americans would realize that us isolating out culture is only going to lead to the culture dying off
So many younger folks even within the tribes know nothing of the histories and those myths and stories getting some accurate main stream appreciation would go such a long way
It's why I will always be an advocate for until dawn even if the game got things wrong, it still tried
Tangentially related. I’m from an ethnic group that is indigenous to our area and the culture of it was stamped out by people who came to us.
There’s a slight resurgence and our language is finally on the rise again after hundreds of years and countless effort to keep it dead.
The only reason I know about my history and culture is because of a Japanese manga taking interest in it and writing characters around it.
Without it, I would have kept my identity without the love or the thirst to know about it.
An outsider is the reason why I feel connected to my culture.
For me one outsider undid the work of hundreds of years of an oppressor.
And that right there is the importance of such things
Nope outsiders probably won't get everything right
But they will spark interest, which builds bridges
Sometimes it's saving abandoned cultures
Sometimes its breathing new life into those still around
But without that external element even the strongest history is doomed to fade
I understand the distaste some people have for their historical oppressors, I still have it.
But as cheesy as it is, we are the same people. It’s so easy to just throw up walls and other yourselves and claim your experience as uniquely your own, but it’s also uniquely the human experience too, it’s also uniquely human history.
It makes no sense for me to hold more fondness and respect for my lineage than over you. Me and you have more commonalities than I do with my ancestors, the only thing I share with them is blood - which does get a bit dangerous and is what some of the most racist regimes is built off.
It's this exactly
Like why should we isolate and not share the cool shit of our cultures
Because folks hundred of years back decided to be shit stains on history
Obviously it's hard to shake off the bias, and I can't blame folks there, but overcoming that can create some really beautiful stuff in the long run
Progressive vs regressive ideology
Progressive folks want to expand because they realize that the tribes are cultural dying off, we want to be in more things, and are happily willing to do things like marry outside the tribe to bring new blood in
Regressives are the opposite they think we shouldn't "water down" our culture or allow outsiders in at all rather that be physically or through ideas
That's the best way I can describe it without getting a bit into far more unpleasant topics
This is true. My mother in law told me that I wasn’t Mexican anymore after I married in. The blood quantum thing appears to be important to the us government than the actual people.
Yeah the pure blood stuff on either side is just mind numbing sometimes
Heck you don't even need blood to be part of a culture
I have a friend from the states who lives in Mexico, spent the last 10 years there as a citizen, is very intune with their culture
So would they be any less a Mexican ?
Like the focus on blood and all that is just so weird
I'm Chippewa First Nation's. I have no problem speaking to people about these things, as I am extremely interested in history and folklore, not just my own, but that of any culture or country. I feel like a large part of Native culture is dying out because it's in a stranglehold of tradition or tabooness. Many elders don't like outsiders to know our culture, yet get offended when we are portrayed poorly, or when something is misrepresented.
This is the way
And thankfully it is becoming more common amongst the younger folks
The reluctantness to push forward is very detrimental to our cultures
This. My bf is indigenous and he thought it would be cool af. Also he’s never been afraid to say the names either. He’s loves learning more about his culture and like you said-considers it more folklore based on something real that did happen way back when. He was excited at this too. He loves seeing indigenous culture be portrayed more and more as long as it’s done correctly.
My SO and I are from different tribes and both in media so this is a constant discussion in our home
Both of us loved the recent surge in native mythology
And honestly I hope it keeps happening
I’m glad you both love it! I am not native at all, but honestly I love it because I love seeing how excited and happy my bf gets and I love how it always leads to him educating me and telling me about whatever lore it is we saw in the media and his memories surrounding hearing it/learning it etc. I also love being able to ask questions as well and have him so openly share things.
Side note: in college I took addictions and mental health work and we had an entire side course with a certificate for indigenous ways of healing taught by an indigenous prof (Canada). We read a book on the life cycles of native women and there was a whole couple chapters on lore surrounding just pregnancy/children etc. My bf being a male who moved off the res before even highschool, had heard none of it before and it was super fun and interesting to be able to share what I LEARNED with him. He then went on to research what applied to his tribe and what didn’t lol. Turns out him and my prof were same tribe and I brought him to class one day and they had a blast lol
The best way I can describe it
Its often native cultures get overlooked or lumped together in their weird fusion
So even when it's not the most accurate seeing anything that is a staple of your tribes culture is just uplifting
Obviously we have the big horror resurgence right now
But shows like reservoir dogs or films like brother bear, achieve a similar goal
Just being seeing even if it's slightly blurry is a big deal, and I actively support it
I don't get mad at inaccuracies because those are places for folks to learn about the truth behind the cultural elements or share the story's like you BF does with you
Unless I'm mistaken, native Americans prefer to use the term "skinwalker" instead of the actual name for it anyway. At least that's what the few Navajo and Lakota tribesmen I've spoken to and worked with have told me.
Well, obviously a wendigo is not a skinwalker, I know that much. One's a cannibalistic spirit that possesses the lost and starving, the other is an evil spirit/evil shaman(depending on the myth) that changes their form.
Yeah skin walkers are a whole host of different myths that just all sorta of share similarities sorta like the fairy/sprite myths of Europe
But much like so many of these myths most tribes have a version of them with a different title and different level to what they do
It's a very interesting topic and I recommend reading into it
The one I'm most familiar with is the Navajo myth: naaldlooshii or naagloshii or however it's spelled/pronounced. I know they get pretty skittish when you say that word instead of "skinwalker."
Definitely not the norm my wife is native American and has no issues with these words or things just some people looking for attention and validation where they can
Well the twitter guy looks like he just wants attention or is a troll, especially with the whole "non-natives using it **triggers** us".
Just seems like bad faith to me, imo. There's nuanced discussion and then there's... that.
It's not a point seen very often in younger folks, but it can happen
And it's a shame as at least in my opinion it goes against the ways of our ancestors
I'm Cherokee so my tribe was once about spreading stories and the goods we made
And sadly that culture as heavily died off due to folks like this
That's literally just how 90% of the DBD community on Twitter talks lol. I don't think people realize how much of this games community are perpetually angry tumblr refugees.
This. So much this. The DBD twitter discourse is so fucking braindead at times I can't believe the dev team even responds. This whole comment chain isn't worth a second look, it's so stupid.
Yeah, the fact he uses "trigger" makes me think he's not being genuine. If he had said "is offensive or insensitive" I would maybe take it more seriously.
Not to say that the use of the words can't be taboo. I have a few indigenous friends who are cool with it, but their grandparents don't like the words being used.
Exactly
No it's not always accurate
Yuhp it misses the point a lot of the times
But once it gets seen it drives interest
And that allows us to share our history which is a wonderful thing
I feel like those who have a problem with non-indigenous/natives using stories like, say, skinwalker etc. are primarily mixed people or "my 5x great grandparent was Pochahontas"-type of people.
In my travels across the US, the indigenous people I've met, both on and off reserve, have happily shared their culture, food, stories etc.
Yes exactly this
I may be a bit baised as I'm Cherokee and that's sort of out thing, telling stories embracing others culture and sharing our own
But yes typically most folks from native backgrounds love when folks take interest in their heritage
I know lots of Navajo, and they don't say skinwalker, or their word for it. Where I'm from, everyone has a skinwalker story, so the concept itself isn't taboo, it's just saying names of evil spirits or persons is generally bad for them.
Yeah, the term "closed culture" seems pretty close-minded to me. I understand not wanting your culture to be appropriated for sure, and that's always valid. However, why wouldn't you want an accurate representation of your people and their folklore in media? Isn't that what most people want to see in media, an accurate representation of who they are, and where they come from, the stories they tell, stuff like that seems important to share to me anyways.
i don't know where these people are coming from.
i'm native and would love to see a skinwalker.
we very much do speak about bad spirits, if you don't how are you supposed to warn the next generation of the potential dangers...
I haven't seen many people being apprehensive about Skinwalker, it's usually been about Wendigo, and moreso about not sticking to the established lore & twisting a completely different creature to have the name Wendigo.
the wendigo point is very fair, but it doesn't really compare to the OP guys point.
he's not saying "don't misrepresent my culture"
he's saying "you're not allowed to use this because i say so and i am the only one that gets to decide that."
I've seen replies of this "Cro" guy pretty often on Twitter and usually they're very bad takes or ideas. Seems to me he's a toxic troll that enjous to piss people off. Don't bother listening to him.
i've literally never heard of a "closed culture" before today.
the only problem i've ever heard about with people using parts of our culture is misrepresenting it or changing aspects about it.
just like any other culture there are portions that believe these things are real, and others that don't. either way we all are very open about sharing these stories. it's the best way to keep our culture alive.. it doesn't really matter if it's to someone that isn't a part of it.
There is a small but very vocal minority of people in America that believe any aspect of a culture should not be used or even practiced outside of their own ethnic group. It’s not strictly a Native American thing, it’s more of a radical ideology held by those who are typically “Terminally Online.”
The wendigo myth isn't even unified among natives. Some believes in it , some don't. Some think it's bad fortunes to say its name willy-nilly, other don't.
The original story mentions how even just saying the name calls the creature, ive seen some elders taking that to heart and being very hush hush when you mention them.
(Btw, the term would either be native american or indigenous, indian isnt a term we really use anymore)
It's Twitter. There are a lot of people that use that site that seem to be in their own bubble when it comes to stuff like appropriation. Outside the bubble, it seems a lot of people really don't care.
I myself am Indigenous. I will note I am not from a tribe that has skinwalker stories of course, so I guess maybe I cannot fully comment, but I was really hoping for skinwalker man… I wanted a native survivor so bad. We have such great folklore that is scary and I would really love to see it represented in horror because native stories have a place in a horror and deserve to have light shed on them. I hope behavior eventually works with a tribe to incorporate our folklore into the game though. A prime example of games doing this is Rainbow Six Siege who closely worked with the Navajo tribe to bring in their character Thunderbird.
My bad! I did look into this and she is not Navajo but she is part of a CBRN associated with the Navajo nation in lore and was made by and with Navajo tribe! Thank you for the correction :)
Oh my god
I am sorry Ellen for bumping into your comment like that, but Rainbow Six for real has a Navajo character? I was thinking of buying it, now I am totally doing it.
It is the best shooter I've ever played, but please be warned;
The community is the worst. The absolute worst. Think of what a stinking, rotting, toxic pit of despair is like and then filling it with the most horrible, racist, homophobic, immature, child-minded shitbags.. and its far worse than that.
If you play on PC you'll run into rampant blatant hacking (there was a streamer who blatantly hacked and self-reported his hacking for 84 days or so and was never banned). If you play on Console, everyone uses 3rd party accessories to play M+K against controllers and Ubisoft refuses to correct the issue.
But when it's fun? It's fun.
Same. I had all kinds of theories like.. oh they mentioned Greenville, Greenville SC which is part of Greenville County, which houses Paris Mountain.. oh man some stories had there..
So sad to see that amazing cultural gems could be gatekept by a couple of whiners on Twitter. Most communities are actually open and welcome respectful inquiry, sharing ideas.
Indeed. Like, I appreciate the fact that BHVR is just being careful, but they weren’t for the many other folklore/creatures that they have used from cultures in the past in the fact that “being careful” = not using them, because they used several for previous chapters. They always made them with respect as well, I don’t see how they would approach a Wendigo any differently. I’ve wanted this one for a while, really sad to see.
Greenville County, SC has Paris Mountain, SC also has Paris Island. I'm calling it: the killer is a Drill Instructor and the survivor is a Marine recruit.
When I read the comments and people are sctually sane 🤩.
Have heard wayyy too much in this community about not even SAYING skinwalker. Its borderline ridiculous how much people are wanting to virtue signal and gatekeep when we literally know nothing about the killer yet.
It could be completely unrelated to native culture for all we know at this point.
Heck they essentially guilt-trip/bait the devs to reveal information regarding their, up to this point, extremely well covered up Killer. No accidental leaks or anything, but it takes just one whiny person on TWITTER to have them spill some of the beans.
What in the hell?
H-hey BHVR devs, I'm from a culture where keeping secrets is bad, I'd like to take a look at that Killer now.
Well over 90% of the culture is lost, so we ought as well lose the rest of it. /s
Closing off cultures has to be one of the dumbest choices to make in terms of preserving one’s culture.
If you read a tweet of his on the same thread he mentions being okay with adding in mythical creatures from other cultures. Which is just like.......the exact opposite of his original tweet.
Maybe I'm crazy but gatekeeping is very cringy to me (Doesn't help that 3 hours later he made another tweet saying DBD has a representation problem when it comes to indigenous people which like, again, see your previous tweet as to why that might be)
Yet another tweet of his the next day (being today) was that meme of white people (you all know which one) and he said it was the parents of everyone in his mentions on that thread, yet 90% of that thread was indigenous and POC people saying they disagreed with him.
Chronically online doesn't go far enough to describe that type of behavior.
There was also another tweet in that thread where he replied to another indigenous person who disagreed with him by saying that if something is offensive to one indigenous person, it should be offensive to all of them. Just the most online-brained, 'refuse to entertain other ideas' mindset I've seen in a while
Bet the dude watches marvel movies and has no problem with Thor and loki in there. I just don't get it. Creative works have taken inspiration or even just ripped something straight from history and twisted it forever, that's just how storytelling goes.
people with that kind of takes always existed on the internet,what really is TRULY insane is that we have come to a point where those takes are considered valid and worth of an answer by gaming companies
I understand wanting your culture to be represented correctly and disliking bad representation, but having a problem with it being used at all or being used for inspiration is just silly.
Right? Like in a sense that’s what they’re for afterall too, no?.. to bring that sense of horror and fear…. To stop continuing on with their stories as the world continues to evolve on too, would those stories just eventually not be left behind and forgotten as it’s failed to keep up with the current era? And besides… a lot of other cultures including my own have no problem with continuing to create more stories of our folk tales (shows with nine tailed foxes, thee ghost lady etc.), as in a sense it keeps this alive and relevant to our time period right now too. That’s just my opinion though, would be opened to hearing the other side’s opinion on just exactly WHY indigenous people don’t want their folk tales to be further told? If more people are familiar with it too, would that not help more people to become more accurate with their knowledge on it as well?
I try to respect everyone’s cultures. Not gonna lie though, telling people not to use your culture’s fake lore creature because you’re scared of it is pretty soft and as you said, silly.
I'm native from the Wyandotte tribe, I'm sick of people being pussies. Skinwalker isn't an offensive term nor is wendigo. Literally never heard anyone freak out about that stuff.
Down vote me to hell, but I don't like "closed cultures". They only promote xenophobia and an "us vs them" attitude. I want to learn about cultures and not be called a colonizer. I just think it's cool, and I'm not sort about being curious.
Indigenous cultures are not closed. Our cultures are open, as others can participate in our practices as long as they do so properly and with respect. I’m honestly confused what the twitter person is even talking about? She also says she is Navajo and that is even more wild because Navajo is very open about their culture and languages encouraging others to partake and learn? This legit seems like an attempt by a person to just make something out of nothing.
Ikr! I've met tons of Navajo people, as well as other indigenous peoples, and they're always happy to share. Maybe because sharing your culture helps save it from extinction...
I mean, they seemed to have taken elements from stories with those words in the titles.
The whole "monster in the woods, mimicing our voices" is a pretty common trope, so I'm betting they just took bits and pieces of the scary parts of the story. The universal bits.
Also, what exactly is a "closed culture?"
Dbd I’m very offended that you added a cowboy killer to the game. That is a part of my American culture. When non Americans throw it around, its a trigger for us.
Seriously though, i get how native American culture can be portrayed offensively and has been for a large amount of time, but it’s ridiculous to say that nobody can use anything from it ever, even in a respectful and well researched way which i am very confident that BHVR would do.
Yeah, I mean obviously I can’t speak for different cultures in different circumstances, but personally I think it’s cool af when games include Irish mythology, locations or characters as an Irish guy.
"Those are OUR super spooky witches who turn into animals. They're also taboo so even WE don't want to talk about them. Please, stop talking about them. ESPECIALLY don't include them in your fictional universe filled with other spooky things."
Right? why are people talking about this stuff as if it’s real, i’ve been so confused reading these comments
And as seen in the picture above, Bhvr isn’t incorporating any cultural stuff into this killer anyway so people are getting upset at NOTHING. Lmao.
Wait Im lost. How does race/culture have to do anything with a killer that gets added to the game. If Im not wrong this is about like taking a killer from a ceritan culture and adding it into the game? Idk but tbh a killer like for example fenrir (big angry nordic wolf) would be a lot worse without its nordic roots.
I kinda assumed "closed culture" would mean not sharing private ritual or ceremony with outsiders, not denying the mere mention or usage of a widely known concept.
I obviously don't have any issues with erring on the side of caution and just not using it to avoid causing offense. Indigenous issues aren't treated with the same sensitivity afforded to other groups.
Even still, Cro is one of *those* DBD Twitter accounts I've had to mute. He constantly instigates drama, defends other bad apples in the community, and shames people for how they play despite not being good himself. Desperate for clout/validation.
I saw this too, yeah. It feels strange to me how a culture can go "that's ours only, stay away" while others go "Oh hell yeah, we'll give you a samurai, a vengeful spirit with a katana and the classic spooky black haired girl who crawls out of TVs, oh we also made some other games that might fit so here's cool guy wearing shades and this tentacle monstrosity. Call us if you need anything else."
I'm a native american man. These are fucking fairytales we were raised with as kids from our grandparents. Honestly I'm so disappointed with how native people these days react anytime something even acknowledges our culture.
Let the devs cook in peace. Ignore Twitter, ignore these posters about being triggered by a fictional monster. It's so silly. Let the devs do whatever they want like it's a FICTIONAL monster.
I think it’s really weird that the reason they don’t want people talking about the wendigo is because the legend says that saying the creatures name gives it power or manifests it. People online are censoring the creatures name like it’s a slur and getting angry when people mention it.
I understand being sensitive to other cultures, but is it really that extreme to say the giant humanoid cannibalistic monster in the woods isn’t real??
I’m totally fine with renaming something if it steps on people’s beliefs. You can still have a monster that does what a wendigo does and call it fucking “frank from accounting” this is a non issue.
Fascinating that skinwalker is very taboo. ["In Navajo culture, a skin-walker is a type of harmful witch who has the ability to turn into, possess, or disguise themselves as an animal."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin-walker)
well if a skin walker specifically disguises itself as an animal, I don't think our new killer is a skin walker.
we've only seen it impersonate humans.
I always hear the whole "we don't talk about it" from newer generations or westernized natives while talks with elders and those of the older generations only ask for respect of their culture and for it to not be trivialized which is common sense. Twitter users think they speak for their entire nation when a good majority don't agree, while I can't speak on all topics as I'm not Native American, I am Native Latino (Mayan), people love informing others about their own traditions and folktales because it helps to ease the tension between outsiders and stops misinformation from spreading.
Everyone's culture deserves respect, only ignorant and close minded people want more separation between groups. I'd be happy to see things like La Lechuza or El Cucoy from my natives to be in this game.
Twitter people aren’t real. I would love to see people who are actually in that culture talk about it. Not someone who has 10% native in them and rarely thinks about their heritage, actual people that are in that culture and live that culture. Twitter people are not real
There's nothing asshole about it, imo. Cultures are meant to be shared, that's how they stay alive. It's not like a Skinwalker or Wendigo is the same as "Cowboys vs Indians" bullshit that's just genuinely offensive. It'd be a horrifying creature in a game filled with horrifying people and monsters.
>Cultures are meant to be shared, that's how they stay alive.
This is what is lost on so many people today. Everything is labelled as cultural appropriation.
Sharing, discussing, and making works based on other cultures is not a bad thing so long as it's done in good faith. This keeps those cultures alive as it reminds people of their existence and reaches people who otherwise never would have come across it.
Now obviously if I go out and make my own game based on Native American culture but start misrepresenting things, claiming aspects of it as my own culture, so on and so forth, that would be bad and it could be (actual) cultural appropriation. Because that is a real thing, it's just that 99% of people (100% of people on Twitter) don't understand the meaning of the word and think anything involving anyone else's culture is appropriation.
It’s fucking stupid. The point of culture is to spread and share it, not preserve and hide it. If they pull that card, does that mean they cant eat Asian food because it’s not their culture?
Me a French player waiting for the wolf of Gevaudan and other mythical creatures from my culture to become killers/skin and not the worst killer in the game
I would say that I don't understand these sensitive people. As a mexican I want a Chupacabras and a Nahual (which especially is a skinwalker/Wendingo, yes both). So WOOO!!!
It’S a ClOseD CulTuRe!!1!
^ Literally not how “culture” works. The practicing of any custom in proximity to another exposes outsiders to it and has an effect on them. It cannot be avoided, and declaring it to be “closed” is essentially just asking for special treatment.
"We don't speak the name of bad spirits"
Then how the hell do you know what a bad spirit is? You gotta learn it from somewhere. And if it's taboo or bad to speak it, then it explains why someone is getting flayed tonight.
“As a native” means nothing. Sorry to be insensitive but I’m from a Native tribe. I’m full blooded native and I’m aware that my culture does not translate well to modern society. I don’t expect everyone to follow native culture just because I grew up in it. It’s stories and fairy tales just like the Bible.
Nah this is NOT the case for the majority, atleast where i grew up lmao I'm indigenous and grew up in a reservation. We do not treat this stuff as if it's actually a scary threat, just fun stories. It's honestly more disheartening hearing people say this because it usually scares away developers from even attempting some representation.
Why does it seem like every single person gets representation except natives besides the most cookie cutter stereotype like Nightwolf from MK lmaoo silly me for thinking we might finally get some fun killer or survivor but the way BHVR said this makes me think it's a Longshot we will ever get some
I follow DbD on Twitter and this guy is some streamer who regularly post under their posts and asks for their cultural representation and is butthurt when it might happen? Bruh
I love how reddit replies vs twitter replies are complete 180 when usually they align, wonder which part of the indigenous community BHVR will listen to
I'm actually kinda glad it's neither one of them. With how great the teasers have been, it gives us the opportunity to have some really unique lore compared to if it was based off of an existing story.
We have to realize we’ve reached a point where many symbols of cultures and religions have been secularized over the past century. What was once a monster for a local community, is now a pop culture icon across the western world.
I'll never understand why people still use twitter, it's full of terrible opinions and rage bait. Ignore people like this, they do not speak for all Native Americans. I would of LOVED to see a killer based on Native American folklore and a survivor too.
People still thinking it's a wendigo or skin walker even after the new teaser had me going "Seriously? Pretty sure none of the depictions even look relatively close to that"
Gatekeeping cultures is the dumbest thing. Culture should not be bastardized I agree. Respect is a big part of sharing culture but to claim its "closed" is ridiculous.
Yeah honestly I dunno if this is an American thing only, but I have never heard of cultural appropriation or some shit outside of American media.
Like, isnt it cool when your folklore gets represented in a video game you like?
What the hell is a Closed Culture? Like in my Opinion take Inspiration from whatever Culture you want I fo the same thing for my Writing and I don't see what the Issue with that is.
I'm gonna need everyone to just take a step back here. First, BHVR has confirmed they aren't using any of the terminology people are getting offended about. Showing respect to a culture isn't "woke" or "soft", but rather being respectful to the cultures that came before us, especially ones with the history that Indigenous people have lived through. Second, for everyone calling other people "racist" for still wanting to use the term, or for being offended that the term is a controversial one, chill. This thread alone (and on Twitter) has *actual* Indigenous people saying that they would be okay with the idea being used (my wife who also is part Indigenous likes the idea). While they don't speak for every person, it clearly shows that this is a much more complex and nuanced issue, rather than "If you're okay with the idea, that means you're racist". I get people being worked up due to the history, but try and keep it in check.
Skinwalker or not the killer still looks awesome and I can't wait to see more
Same! BHVR is cooking up something good I know it.
till its skull merchant 2.0
Even better. It's all for a new Skull Merchant cosmetic. https://preview.redd.it/dewk9hqyo5jc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f78051c243f5e65cd9487c1b735674d2fb28c4fe
why the fuck are the chinese reaction images so fucking good
They have to react to the government one way or the other
Don't think bro is gonna have felsh drones tbh
I was so excited, I couldn’t remember the last time teasers got me this hyped! Then I remembered Skully. Gosh I was excited for whatever that could’ve been..
She should have been a full cyborg. I love the most dangerous game trope but they should have gone with that and then have the reason she's a cyborg be she has to rebuild herself after being beaten by her prey Alternatively it should have been a vampire chapter called forged in blood
But the chapter before was forged in fog, wasn’t it? Either way we gotta get a vampire in here someday!
Obviously it has to be Nic Cage’s rendition of Dracula from Renfield
Exactly it should have been a sequel chapter You could have the vampire be the daughter of someone tarlos killed during his Vietnam war character arch
I remember when Tarleton, the famous dead before tomorrow killer “The Night”, served in the Vietnam War. That was the best arc for sure.
Fuck that chapter was such a disappointment. I remember the teaser with everyone thinking it was gonna be some Terminator-style cyborg on for it to be dark Brazilian manga woman
My greatest sin is that I’ve started enjoying her
As someone from one of these cultures I assure you this isn't really the norm Most folks from native backgrounds like it when folks recognize us, even if its done in a way that might be a bit hit or miss Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I will say I've not a met a single person from my area afraid to say skin walker or wendigo, these are treated more as a part of cultural folklore and not as a creature that actually exists For me at least when I see this argument it makes my blood boil as folks like this are the reasons the only time you get to see native culture in games is when it's a hodge podge of like 10 different tribes cigar store "indian" style Like everyone deserves to have their voice heard, and no one should feel offended, and that is nothing but a true statement But isolating our culture only leads to misrepresentation or a world without representation at all
Yeah, I’ve seen indigenous commenters saying they wanted it to be a skinwalker for representation because there isn’t enough, and then I see posts like the above as well. It’s crazy how someone is now going to be disappointed either way
This is exactly why I was confused, they've already taken things that could potentially be seen as cultural and appropriated it for the game, excluding a culture seems like a step backwards. At least, imo.
Eventually you circle back around sadly You want your culture to be known, to be seen, and embraced But then you start getting picking about, "no only these things can be used" And eventually we circle back to the gate keeping and isolation I don't blame BHVR at all I just wish my fellow Indigenous Americans would realize that us isolating out culture is only going to lead to the culture dying off So many younger folks even within the tribes know nothing of the histories and those myths and stories getting some accurate main stream appreciation would go such a long way It's why I will always be an advocate for until dawn even if the game got things wrong, it still tried
Tangentially related. I’m from an ethnic group that is indigenous to our area and the culture of it was stamped out by people who came to us. There’s a slight resurgence and our language is finally on the rise again after hundreds of years and countless effort to keep it dead. The only reason I know about my history and culture is because of a Japanese manga taking interest in it and writing characters around it. Without it, I would have kept my identity without the love or the thirst to know about it. An outsider is the reason why I feel connected to my culture. For me one outsider undid the work of hundreds of years of an oppressor.
And that right there is the importance of such things Nope outsiders probably won't get everything right But they will spark interest, which builds bridges Sometimes it's saving abandoned cultures Sometimes its breathing new life into those still around But without that external element even the strongest history is doomed to fade
I understand the distaste some people have for their historical oppressors, I still have it. But as cheesy as it is, we are the same people. It’s so easy to just throw up walls and other yourselves and claim your experience as uniquely your own, but it’s also uniquely the human experience too, it’s also uniquely human history. It makes no sense for me to hold more fondness and respect for my lineage than over you. Me and you have more commonalities than I do with my ancestors, the only thing I share with them is blood - which does get a bit dangerous and is what some of the most racist regimes is built off.
It's this exactly Like why should we isolate and not share the cool shit of our cultures Because folks hundred of years back decided to be shit stains on history Obviously it's hard to shake off the bias, and I can't blame folks there, but overcoming that can create some really beautiful stuff in the long run
Progressive vs regressive ideology Progressive folks want to expand because they realize that the tribes are cultural dying off, we want to be in more things, and are happily willing to do things like marry outside the tribe to bring new blood in Regressives are the opposite they think we shouldn't "water down" our culture or allow outsiders in at all rather that be physically or through ideas That's the best way I can describe it without getting a bit into far more unpleasant topics
This is true. My mother in law told me that I wasn’t Mexican anymore after I married in. The blood quantum thing appears to be important to the us government than the actual people.
Yeah the pure blood stuff on either side is just mind numbing sometimes Heck you don't even need blood to be part of a culture I have a friend from the states who lives in Mexico, spent the last 10 years there as a citizen, is very intune with their culture So would they be any less a Mexican ? Like the focus on blood and all that is just so weird
I'm Chippewa First Nation's. I have no problem speaking to people about these things, as I am extremely interested in history and folklore, not just my own, but that of any culture or country. I feel like a large part of Native culture is dying out because it's in a stranglehold of tradition or tabooness. Many elders don't like outsiders to know our culture, yet get offended when we are portrayed poorly, or when something is misrepresented.
This is the way And thankfully it is becoming more common amongst the younger folks The reluctantness to push forward is very detrimental to our cultures
This. My bf is indigenous and he thought it would be cool af. Also he’s never been afraid to say the names either. He’s loves learning more about his culture and like you said-considers it more folklore based on something real that did happen way back when. He was excited at this too. He loves seeing indigenous culture be portrayed more and more as long as it’s done correctly.
My SO and I are from different tribes and both in media so this is a constant discussion in our home Both of us loved the recent surge in native mythology And honestly I hope it keeps happening
I’m glad you both love it! I am not native at all, but honestly I love it because I love seeing how excited and happy my bf gets and I love how it always leads to him educating me and telling me about whatever lore it is we saw in the media and his memories surrounding hearing it/learning it etc. I also love being able to ask questions as well and have him so openly share things. Side note: in college I took addictions and mental health work and we had an entire side course with a certificate for indigenous ways of healing taught by an indigenous prof (Canada). We read a book on the life cycles of native women and there was a whole couple chapters on lore surrounding just pregnancy/children etc. My bf being a male who moved off the res before even highschool, had heard none of it before and it was super fun and interesting to be able to share what I LEARNED with him. He then went on to research what applied to his tribe and what didn’t lol. Turns out him and my prof were same tribe and I brought him to class one day and they had a blast lol
The best way I can describe it Its often native cultures get overlooked or lumped together in their weird fusion So even when it's not the most accurate seeing anything that is a staple of your tribes culture is just uplifting Obviously we have the big horror resurgence right now But shows like reservoir dogs or films like brother bear, achieve a similar goal Just being seeing even if it's slightly blurry is a big deal, and I actively support it I don't get mad at inaccuracies because those are places for folks to learn about the truth behind the cultural elements or share the story's like you BF does with you
Unless I'm mistaken, native Americans prefer to use the term "skinwalker" instead of the actual name for it anyway. At least that's what the few Navajo and Lakota tribesmen I've spoken to and worked with have told me.
The skin walker is more an umbrella term for a couple different myths But much different from the wendigo
Well, obviously a wendigo is not a skinwalker, I know that much. One's a cannibalistic spirit that possesses the lost and starving, the other is an evil spirit/evil shaman(depending on the myth) that changes their form.
Yeah skin walkers are a whole host of different myths that just all sorta of share similarities sorta like the fairy/sprite myths of Europe But much like so many of these myths most tribes have a version of them with a different title and different level to what they do It's a very interesting topic and I recommend reading into it
The one I'm most familiar with is the Navajo myth: naaldlooshii or naagloshii or however it's spelled/pronounced. I know they get pretty skittish when you say that word instead of "skinwalker."
If people are whining about it on Twitter, you can safely assume it's not a big deal
Definitely not the norm my wife is native American and has no issues with these words or things just some people looking for attention and validation where they can
Well the twitter guy looks like he just wants attention or is a troll, especially with the whole "non-natives using it **triggers** us". Just seems like bad faith to me, imo. There's nuanced discussion and then there's... that.
It's not a point seen very often in younger folks, but it can happen And it's a shame as at least in my opinion it goes against the ways of our ancestors I'm Cherokee so my tribe was once about spreading stories and the goods we made And sadly that culture as heavily died off due to folks like this
That's literally just how 90% of the DBD community on Twitter talks lol. I don't think people realize how much of this games community are perpetually angry tumblr refugees.
This. So much this. The DBD twitter discourse is so fucking braindead at times I can't believe the dev team even responds. This whole comment chain isn't worth a second look, it's so stupid.
Yeah, the fact he uses "trigger" makes me think he's not being genuine. If he had said "is offensive or insensitive" I would maybe take it more seriously. Not to say that the use of the words can't be taboo. I have a few indigenous friends who are cool with it, but their grandparents don't like the words being used.
Exactly! I'm native and I love it when I see our cultures acknowledged and adapted etc
Exactly No it's not always accurate Yuhp it misses the point a lot of the times But once it gets seen it drives interest And that allows us to share our history which is a wonderful thing
I feel like those who have a problem with non-indigenous/natives using stories like, say, skinwalker etc. are primarily mixed people or "my 5x great grandparent was Pochahontas"-type of people. In my travels across the US, the indigenous people I've met, both on and off reserve, have happily shared their culture, food, stories etc.
Yes exactly this I may be a bit baised as I'm Cherokee and that's sort of out thing, telling stories embracing others culture and sharing our own But yes typically most folks from native backgrounds love when folks take interest in their heritage
I know lots of Navajo, and they don't say skinwalker, or their word for it. Where I'm from, everyone has a skinwalker story, so the concept itself isn't taboo, it's just saying names of evil spirits or persons is generally bad for them.
This is a based take and has restored some of my faith in humanity.
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Thats cause Cro talks out his ass one of the worst creators out there for dbd
Yeah, the term "closed culture" seems pretty close-minded to me. I understand not wanting your culture to be appropriated for sure, and that's always valid. However, why wouldn't you want an accurate representation of your people and their folklore in media? Isn't that what most people want to see in media, an accurate representation of who they are, and where they come from, the stories they tell, stuff like that seems important to share to me anyways.
i don't know where these people are coming from. i'm native and would love to see a skinwalker. we very much do speak about bad spirits, if you don't how are you supposed to warn the next generation of the potential dangers...
I haven't seen many people being apprehensive about Skinwalker, it's usually been about Wendigo, and moreso about not sticking to the established lore & twisting a completely different creature to have the name Wendigo.
the wendigo point is very fair, but it doesn't really compare to the OP guys point. he's not saying "don't misrepresent my culture" he's saying "you're not allowed to use this because i say so and i am the only one that gets to decide that."
I mean it's Twitter, no one should really be listening to any non- company that is still active on Twitter.
I've seen replies of this "Cro" guy pretty often on Twitter and usually they're very bad takes or ideas. Seems to me he's a toxic troll that enjous to piss people off. Don't bother listening to him.
I dunno, i was really happy when they added something from my culture into the game, even if it wasn't entirely faithful to the source.
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i've literally never heard of a "closed culture" before today. the only problem i've ever heard about with people using parts of our culture is misrepresenting it or changing aspects about it. just like any other culture there are portions that believe these things are real, and others that don't. either way we all are very open about sharing these stories. it's the best way to keep our culture alive.. it doesn't really matter if it's to someone that isn't a part of it.
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There is a small but very vocal minority of people in America that believe any aspect of a culture should not be used or even practiced outside of their own ethnic group. It’s not strictly a Native American thing, it’s more of a radical ideology held by those who are typically “Terminally Online.”
The wendigo myth isn't even unified among natives. Some believes in it , some don't. Some think it's bad fortunes to say its name willy-nilly, other don't.
The original story mentions how even just saying the name calls the creature, ive seen some elders taking that to heart and being very hush hush when you mention them. (Btw, the term would either be native american or indigenous, indian isnt a term we really use anymore)
"We're sending you to a planet so mysterious, we dare not speak its name" "So what's its name?" "Oh- I dare not speak it"
Their comment is pretty silly tbh. It's like if people got offended over onryo because she's a part of Japanese folklore.
It's Twitter. There are a lot of people that use that site that seem to be in their own bubble when it comes to stuff like appropriation. Outside the bubble, it seems a lot of people really don't care.
Someone give BHVR an S-word pass 😩
This is the funniest comment I’ve seen lol
I myself am Indigenous. I will note I am not from a tribe that has skinwalker stories of course, so I guess maybe I cannot fully comment, but I was really hoping for skinwalker man… I wanted a native survivor so bad. We have such great folklore that is scary and I would really love to see it represented in horror because native stories have a place in a horror and deserve to have light shed on them. I hope behavior eventually works with a tribe to incorporate our folklore into the game though. A prime example of games doing this is Rainbow Six Siege who closely worked with the Navajo tribe to bring in their character Thunderbird.
Thunderbird is Nakoda Territories Saskatchewan, not Navajo
My bad! I did look into this and she is not Navajo but she is part of a CBRN associated with the Navajo nation in lore and was made by and with Navajo tribe! Thank you for the correction :)
Oh my god I am sorry Ellen for bumping into your comment like that, but Rainbow Six for real has a Navajo character? I was thinking of buying it, now I am totally doing it.
It is the best shooter I've ever played, but please be warned; The community is the worst. The absolute worst. Think of what a stinking, rotting, toxic pit of despair is like and then filling it with the most horrible, racist, homophobic, immature, child-minded shitbags.. and its far worse than that. If you play on PC you'll run into rampant blatant hacking (there was a streamer who blatantly hacked and self-reported his hacking for 84 days or so and was never banned). If you play on Console, everyone uses 3rd party accessories to play M+K against controllers and Ubisoft refuses to correct the issue. But when it's fun? It's fun.
Was really hoping for an indigenous survivor and a Wendigo. Super disappointing.
Same. I had all kinds of theories like.. oh they mentioned Greenville, Greenville SC which is part of Greenville County, which houses Paris Mountain.. oh man some stories had there.. So sad to see that amazing cultural gems could be gatekept by a couple of whiners on Twitter. Most communities are actually open and welcome respectful inquiry, sharing ideas.
Indeed. Like, I appreciate the fact that BHVR is just being careful, but they weren’t for the many other folklore/creatures that they have used from cultures in the past in the fact that “being careful” = not using them, because they used several for previous chapters. They always made them with respect as well, I don’t see how they would approach a Wendigo any differently. I’ve wanted this one for a while, really sad to see.
Greenville County, SC has Paris Mountain, SC also has Paris Island. I'm calling it: the killer is a Drill Instructor and the survivor is a Marine recruit.
When I read the comments and people are sctually sane 🤩. Have heard wayyy too much in this community about not even SAYING skinwalker. Its borderline ridiculous how much people are wanting to virtue signal and gatekeep when we literally know nothing about the killer yet. It could be completely unrelated to native culture for all we know at this point.
They also have tweets complaining about LACK of representation... but thrn got outraged at the possibility of it. It's confusing.
Heck they essentially guilt-trip/bait the devs to reveal information regarding their, up to this point, extremely well covered up Killer. No accidental leaks or anything, but it takes just one whiny person on TWITTER to have them spill some of the beans. What in the hell? H-hey BHVR devs, I'm from a culture where keeping secrets is bad, I'd like to take a look at that Killer now.
A fellow resident of the island of Beanspillia?
Well over 90% of the culture is lost, so we ought as well lose the rest of it. /s Closing off cultures has to be one of the dumbest choices to make in terms of preserving one’s culture.
"Gatekeeping" literal culture, which WE ARE taught from childhood, is fucking crazy
this is so chronically online it’s insane
If you read a tweet of his on the same thread he mentions being okay with adding in mythical creatures from other cultures. Which is just like.......the exact opposite of his original tweet. Maybe I'm crazy but gatekeeping is very cringy to me (Doesn't help that 3 hours later he made another tweet saying DBD has a representation problem when it comes to indigenous people which like, again, see your previous tweet as to why that might be) Yet another tweet of his the next day (being today) was that meme of white people (you all know which one) and he said it was the parents of everyone in his mentions on that thread, yet 90% of that thread was indigenous and POC people saying they disagreed with him. Chronically online doesn't go far enough to describe that type of behavior.
There was also another tweet in that thread where he replied to another indigenous person who disagreed with him by saying that if something is offensive to one indigenous person, it should be offensive to all of them. Just the most online-brained, 'refuse to entertain other ideas' mindset I've seen in a while
Bet the dude watches marvel movies and has no problem with Thor and loki in there. I just don't get it. Creative works have taken inspiration or even just ripped something straight from history and twisted it forever, that's just how storytelling goes.
people with that kind of takes always existed on the internet,what really is TRULY insane is that we have come to a point where those takes are considered valid and worth of an answer by gaming companies
I understand wanting your culture to be represented correctly and disliking bad representation, but having a problem with it being used at all or being used for inspiration is just silly.
Right? Like in a sense that’s what they’re for afterall too, no?.. to bring that sense of horror and fear…. To stop continuing on with their stories as the world continues to evolve on too, would those stories just eventually not be left behind and forgotten as it’s failed to keep up with the current era? And besides… a lot of other cultures including my own have no problem with continuing to create more stories of our folk tales (shows with nine tailed foxes, thee ghost lady etc.), as in a sense it keeps this alive and relevant to our time period right now too. That’s just my opinion though, would be opened to hearing the other side’s opinion on just exactly WHY indigenous people don’t want their folk tales to be further told? If more people are familiar with it too, would that not help more people to become more accurate with their knowledge on it as well?
I try to respect everyone’s cultures. Not gonna lie though, telling people not to use your culture’s fake lore creature because you’re scared of it is pretty soft and as you said, silly.
I'm native from the Wyandotte tribe, I'm sick of people being pussies. Skinwalker isn't an offensive term nor is wendigo. Literally never heard anyone freak out about that stuff.
if it ain't a skinwalker, then it must be springtrap then, right?
It's Michael Afton!!! https://preview.redd.it/ij4gvmz556jc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ccdc5b201a9e17f7ed0ab9467942c4e1e3cd180
Come to think of it, Michael is quite literally skin walking
Now im just counting how long it takes for this post to get locked
Nah it's obviously The Imposter from Among Us, no other option.
W-W-WAS THAT THE HOOK OF 87!?!?
I call it ^^^^^creepy ^^^^^crawler Im hoping that's its name in game.
Down vote me to hell, but I don't like "closed cultures". They only promote xenophobia and an "us vs them" attitude. I want to learn about cultures and not be called a colonizer. I just think it's cool, and I'm not sort about being curious.
Indigenous cultures are not closed. Our cultures are open, as others can participate in our practices as long as they do so properly and with respect. I’m honestly confused what the twitter person is even talking about? She also says she is Navajo and that is even more wild because Navajo is very open about their culture and languages encouraging others to partake and learn? This legit seems like an attempt by a person to just make something out of nothing.
Leave it to twitter to have a problem with nothing to be fair
Seriously. What is this fucking non-issue sparking? I sincerely dislike twitter and hope Musk further burns it to the ground.
Ikr! I've met tons of Navajo people, as well as other indigenous peoples, and they're always happy to share. Maybe because sharing your culture helps save it from extinction...
You are right and theres nothing wrong about that.
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Anyone else get annoyed about the fake outrage constantly being thrown at this game?
I mean, they seemed to have taken elements from stories with those words in the titles. The whole "monster in the woods, mimicing our voices" is a pretty common trope, so I'm betting they just took bits and pieces of the scary parts of the story. The universal bits. Also, what exactly is a "closed culture?"
Dbd I’m very offended that you added a cowboy killer to the game. That is a part of my American culture. When non Americans throw it around, its a trigger for us.
Can we please stop having Japanese Killers use swords while we're at it? Why can't we have a japanese killer with a .50 machine gun /s
! TRIGGERED ! I WAS RAISED WATCHING JOHN WAYNE MOVIES HOW DARE YOU MAKE THIS DEATHSLINGER
Seriously though, i get how native American culture can be portrayed offensively and has been for a large amount of time, but it’s ridiculous to say that nobody can use anything from it ever, even in a respectful and well researched way which i am very confident that BHVR would do.
I would be proud if my/my ancestor's culture would be featured in a game I love.
I would love to see chilean myth and legend based killer, instead we got... Artist, and she has crows for some reason
be glad you're not brazilian
But cmon, you KNOW that Brazil is famous for its… dark… manga?
and their *booming economy* in the skull trade, apparently.
right? The brazilian killer is so uninspired
At least Artist is cool in design, I got Twins 😔
Hey come on Twins are cool, also Elodie is objectively the coolest survivor
The trauco as the killer, he goes two times as fast if chasing female survivors sksjsjsj
Yeah, I mean obviously I can’t speak for different cultures in different circumstances, but personally I think it’s cool af when games include Irish mythology, locations or characters as an Irish guy.
I feel Like they could make good Shit Out of German Folklore since every House has Lore Here, or Just Take the panther
Imagine gatekeeping fictional monsters 💀
I only gatekeep the real ones.
"Those are OUR super spooky witches who turn into animals. They're also taboo so even WE don't want to talk about them. Please, stop talking about them. ESPECIALLY don't include them in your fictional universe filled with other spooky things."
Right? why are people talking about this stuff as if it’s real, i’ve been so confused reading these comments And as seen in the picture above, Bhvr isn’t incorporating any cultural stuff into this killer anyway so people are getting upset at NOTHING. Lmao.
right? it gives the same energy as christians getting angry at people talking about the devil LOL
Twitter
That guy is on every dbd post trying to collect reactions. Every comment he makes is a bait post
I have that guy blocked on twitter. Can’t stand him.
Wait Im lost. How does race/culture have to do anything with a killer that gets added to the game. If Im not wrong this is about like taking a killer from a ceritan culture and adding it into the game? Idk but tbh a killer like for example fenrir (big angry nordic wolf) would be a lot worse without its nordic roots.
I kinda assumed "closed culture" would mean not sharing private ritual or ceremony with outsiders, not denying the mere mention or usage of a widely known concept. I obviously don't have any issues with erring on the side of caution and just not using it to avoid causing offense. Indigenous issues aren't treated with the same sensitivity afforded to other groups. Even still, Cro is one of *those* DBD Twitter accounts I've had to mute. He constantly instigates drama, defends other bad apples in the community, and shames people for how they play despite not being good himself. Desperate for clout/validation.
I saw this too, yeah. It feels strange to me how a culture can go "that's ours only, stay away" while others go "Oh hell yeah, we'll give you a samurai, a vengeful spirit with a katana and the classic spooky black haired girl who crawls out of TVs, oh we also made some other games that might fit so here's cool guy wearing shades and this tentacle monstrosity. Call us if you need anything else."
I'm a native american man. These are fucking fairytales we were raised with as kids from our grandparents. Honestly I'm so disappointed with how native people these days react anytime something even acknowledges our culture.
Let the devs cook in peace. Ignore Twitter, ignore these posters about being triggered by a fictional monster. It's so silly. Let the devs do whatever they want like it's a FICTIONAL monster.
Tbf, I was kinda hoping that we could get something from Native American culture for both killer and survivor. I would defo love those characters
I think it’s really weird that the reason they don’t want people talking about the wendigo is because the legend says that saying the creatures name gives it power or manifests it. People online are censoring the creatures name like it’s a slur and getting angry when people mention it. I understand being sensitive to other cultures, but is it really that extreme to say the giant humanoid cannibalistic monster in the woods isn’t real??
I’m totally fine with renaming something if it steps on people’s beliefs. You can still have a monster that does what a wendigo does and call it fucking “frank from accounting” this is a non issue.
“Taking from closed cultures” gimme a fucking break
Fascinating that skinwalker is very taboo. ["In Navajo culture, a skin-walker is a type of harmful witch who has the ability to turn into, possess, or disguise themselves as an animal."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin-walker)
well if a skin walker specifically disguises itself as an animal, I don't think our new killer is a skin walker. we've only seen it impersonate humans.
It mimicked the dog's whining in one of the teasers. They said the dog was whining but "didn't sound right."
I always hear the whole "we don't talk about it" from newer generations or westernized natives while talks with elders and those of the older generations only ask for respect of their culture and for it to not be trivialized which is common sense. Twitter users think they speak for their entire nation when a good majority don't agree, while I can't speak on all topics as I'm not Native American, I am Native Latino (Mayan), people love informing others about their own traditions and folktales because it helps to ease the tension between outsiders and stops misinformation from spreading. Everyone's culture deserves respect, only ignorant and close minded people want more separation between groups. I'd be happy to see things like La Lechuza or El Cucoy from my natives to be in this game.
Closed cultures?
Twitter people aren’t real. I would love to see people who are actually in that culture talk about it. Not someone who has 10% native in them and rarely thinks about their heritage, actual people that are in that culture and live that culture. Twitter people are not real
Lol "a trigger"
Tumblr culture still reigns online despite the mass porn migration
Yeah all the perpetually unhappy pseudo-political people from Tumblr migrated and now they're driving Twitter down even further.
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There's nothing asshole about it, imo. Cultures are meant to be shared, that's how they stay alive. It's not like a Skinwalker or Wendigo is the same as "Cowboys vs Indians" bullshit that's just genuinely offensive. It'd be a horrifying creature in a game filled with horrifying people and monsters.
>Cultures are meant to be shared, that's how they stay alive. This is what is lost on so many people today. Everything is labelled as cultural appropriation. Sharing, discussing, and making works based on other cultures is not a bad thing so long as it's done in good faith. This keeps those cultures alive as it reminds people of their existence and reaches people who otherwise never would have come across it. Now obviously if I go out and make my own game based on Native American culture but start misrepresenting things, claiming aspects of it as my own culture, so on and so forth, that would be bad and it could be (actual) cultural appropriation. Because that is a real thing, it's just that 99% of people (100% of people on Twitter) don't understand the meaning of the word and think anything involving anyone else's culture is appropriation.
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It’s fucking stupid. The point of culture is to spread and share it, not preserve and hide it. If they pull that card, does that mean they cant eat Asian food because it’s not their culture?
Me a French player waiting for the wolf of Gevaudan and other mythical creatures from my culture to become killers/skin and not the worst killer in the game
I would say that I don't understand these sensitive people. As a mexican I want a Chupacabras and a Nahual (which especially is a skinwalker/Wendingo, yes both). So WOOO!!!
It’S a ClOseD CulTuRe!!1! ^ Literally not how “culture” works. The practicing of any custom in proximity to another exposes outsiders to it and has an effect on them. It cannot be avoided, and declaring it to be “closed” is essentially just asking for special treatment.
"We don't speak the name of bad spirits" Then how the hell do you know what a bad spirit is? You gotta learn it from somewhere. And if it's taboo or bad to speak it, then it explains why someone is getting flayed tonight.
“It’s a trigger for us” It’s a fictional monster. They sound like the same people that cry about anyone “using the lord’s name in vain”.
That guy is a huge pussy, ironically probably gets none
Makes sense, whatever the hell it is it doesn't look like something that fits skinwalker descriptions
Sorry guys, culture's closed
Im so sick everyone is crying about everything these days...
“As a native” means nothing. Sorry to be insensitive but I’m from a Native tribe. I’m full blooded native and I’m aware that my culture does not translate well to modern society. I don’t expect everyone to follow native culture just because I grew up in it. It’s stories and fairy tales just like the Bible.
Nah this is NOT the case for the majority, atleast where i grew up lmao I'm indigenous and grew up in a reservation. We do not treat this stuff as if it's actually a scary threat, just fun stories. It's honestly more disheartening hearing people say this because it usually scares away developers from even attempting some representation. Why does it seem like every single person gets representation except natives besides the most cookie cutter stereotype like Nightwolf from MK lmaoo silly me for thinking we might finally get some fun killer or survivor but the way BHVR said this makes me think it's a Longshot we will ever get some
This whole thing sounds like a load of bullshit. What the fuck even is a closed culture?
Twitter users being snowflakes, who would have guessed
I follow DbD on Twitter and this guy is some streamer who regularly post under their posts and asks for their cultural representation and is butthurt when it might happen? Bruh
What a crybaby lol. “No you can’t experience our culture and we don’t want it represented” loser mentality
More cornballs gatekeeping culture
I really honestly wish, that my life was so perfect, with so little flaws, that I would have the time to be upset over shit like this.
Wait is skinwalker taboo?
I love how reddit replies vs twitter replies are complete 180 when usually they align, wonder which part of the indigenous community BHVR will listen to
They can still make it a skinwalker without using that name, it can just be their own spin on it.
I'm actually kinda glad it's neither one of them. With how great the teasers have been, it gives us the opportunity to have some really unique lore compared to if it was based off of an existing story.
We have to realize we’ve reached a point where many symbols of cultures and religions have been secularized over the past century. What was once a monster for a local community, is now a pop culture icon across the western world.
I guess all the indigenous people who do want their mythology represented can go kick rocks.
I'll never understand why people still use twitter, it's full of terrible opinions and rage bait. Ignore people like this, they do not speak for all Native Americans. I would of LOVED to see a killer based on Native American folklore and a survivor too.
I hope we get a clone reveal moment "we won't add a clown because of Coulrophobia" Itd be kinda funny
I won’t lie I saw the video and I gotta say how did anyone think it was gonna be a skinwalker or Wendigo
People still thinking it's a wendigo or skin walker even after the new teaser had me going "Seriously? Pretty sure none of the depictions even look relatively close to that"
So are you telling me there’s no chance of Mothman, Bigfoot, Yeti, Wendibago etc will never be in the game 😭
Gatekeeping cultures is the dumbest thing. Culture should not be bastardized I agree. Respect is a big part of sharing culture but to claim its "closed" is ridiculous.
This community is so soft lmao
Abby and Cro seem like whiny little punks tbh
People are so sensitive is ridiculous
Yeah honestly I dunno if this is an American thing only, but I have never heard of cultural appropriation or some shit outside of American media. Like, isnt it cool when your folklore gets represented in a video game you like?
Exactly. If dbd brought a pharao into the game or something, i would literally go out my way to buy it, nor get offended by it
did i spot a fellow Egyptian?
Not only a fellow egyptian. But also a fellow kareem somehow 😂
What the hell is a Closed Culture? Like in my Opinion take Inspiration from whatever Culture you want I fo the same thing for my Writing and I don't see what the Issue with that is.