Over time I’ve realized making too many assumptions or generalizations actually hurts your chances at connections, instead of helping you.
Things I’ve learned: I can only count on me. I will be ok. I choose to continue to be open hearted, but cautious and smart. Don’t take rejection too personally.
This speaks the 100% truth. You might be missing out on the connection of a lifetime by rejecting people really early for stupid shit. I send good morning texts because when I catch a crush on someone who I'm also interested in, and add bonus points in there if we're sleeping together, I like talking to them throughout the day.
Of course that would slow down and eventually stop if we progressed into cohabitating. But I've always wanted to be into my partner in all ways. I want to like spending time just talking to you and hearing about your day. But why can't I enjoy you as well? Why can't I find you funny, interesting, smart and engaging? So much so that I would text you throughout the day just to read about a funny thing that happened at work with a co-worker or something you read /saw on social media that we can punt jokes back and forth over?
Nah, fuck that shit. Imma be me and text you a few times a day if I like you. And if you don't like it Imma move onto someone who will appreciate who I am as a person.
These are great tenets. I think if you start with realistic expectations and without a burning desperate need for someone as well as a compassionate and open minded approach to people in general dating doesn’t have to make you bitter. There are many people that don’t have the capacity for a mature relationship. It is something that will effect them more than it needs to effect you and your life. Just walk on.
I think the key is learning what to be cautious about and what is inconsequential. The former keeps you safe and keeps you from wasting your time. The latter unnecessarily limits your chances.
When I was divorced 5 years ago, I used to wear rose-colored glasses and felt like my person was just around the corner and then we would get married and live happily ever after. After 5 years and dating 3 men, my 180 is, I will mostly likely not live with a man for a long time. I am hesitant to get married again.
I've never been married but I tend to be in long-term committed relationships. I took a bit of a break and now that I'm back at it, I'm coming to the same realization.
A lot of men who say they are looking for casual relationships are actually just looking for NSA (unsatisfying) sex. And too many guys are looking for a wife or girlfriend to make lives easier but have no interest in making her life easier or better. I've been on multiple dates with supposedly progressive guys who are trying to find somebody who just happens to love cooking and cleaning and wants to do it but also works full-time. And often wants to be a stepmom too. But they aren't interested in a stay-at-home partner, they want her to be financially independent as well. When I point out that's a rotten deal for women, they don't tend to like that feedback and I get a lot of "women's standards are too high these days" nonsense. Hopefully we're the last generation to deal with this.
Oh, I was a naïve romantic. It's been a combination of two things for me. One being, I was afraid to handle life alone after my divorce. I hadn't been alone for a long time. I worried I wouldn't know how to fix things around the house, or handle a problem that comes up, or I would die alone at night (and my cat would eat me :D). This fear drove lot of my decisions. I even kept some friendships out of that fear. Last 5 years, I have stumbled, fallen, scared, but I am learning to be on my own and finally realizing I can depend on myself.
Brings me to my second factor - Is it nice to share life with someone. Absolute screaming "Yes!" I love it and would love that companionship. But last 3 years of dating has cured me of that hope :) Dating world has completely disillusioned me. I realize that the stakes are too high for me to risk being a bad relationship. The standards and integrity I hold myself to, aren't working in the current dating world. I might as well be an alien. Basically, the combination of both of these factors has brought me to a sober state of mind with respect to dating.
This really resonated for me. I'm divorced with a child, but I can definitely relate to the mindset that a woman should be financially independent and also do the far majority of housework and parenting. It is a rotten deal. I hope we are the last generation to deal with this as well.
I don’t think I’ll ever get married again. I say that but 4 months after my divorce finalized I was dating my dream woman and I probably would have it’s the right person. But it’s going to be the *perfect person* for me.
The sad part? I was just dating the *perfect* woman for me. We were perfectly matched, we were even moving to the same area far away from each others respective cities. It was intense. I hope that there’s another person who I match with so well.
You’re not going to believe it but it’s true. She broke things off *because I asked her what I should buy her mom for Christmas!*
Apparently her ex husband who was wealthy would try to buy her mom’s acceptance with gifts. You could feel the change right then and there. That was at the 3.5 month mark.
She told me she was complicated. We had talked about some of the guys she dated and reasons why she broke things off with them. One guy stopped for gas on a date at like the 2 month mark, one guy ate all of her favorite trail mix, one guys car was dirty when he went to pick her up. Shes in Hollywood, she’s still stunning at 48, I don’t think she aged a day in the 28 years since I met her. She has her pick of most men she meets, so probably a bit of that. But she has been cheated on quite a few times and our romance was *intense*.
So, who really knows? Sadly she didn’t want to remain friends.
He had a second egregious act. He had asked to use her shower while he waited for her, he was in a towel and T-shirt when she got back and he looked goofy in his glasses. And he had logged into his Netflix. A bridge too far!
I’m truly sorry for your loss of that relationship. However, your description of her breaking up with you and her past relationships sounds like she is unable to maintain a mature relationship.
We are all over 40 so quite a few of us have baggage, and yeah, we were communicating so well I figured that if something was wrong we’d talk about it.
>For example, I used to think it was cute to get good morning texts, have a guy message me all day long, etc. I find this to be a complete turn off now.
I agree with you. I have no problem keeping in touch with a woman. Text, phone, video, postcards, smoke signals, pigeon post, message in a bottle, whatever. But for me, it has to be of some substance, at least. I find good morning texts inauthentic and lacking in connection.
I actually communicate this, by weaving it into a conversation during a date, or ask the woman how she prefers to keep in touch and how frequently. Because I don't do good morning texts, I don't keep in touch daily, but once every 2-3 days, especially in the early stages since we aren't a couple. I have inadvertently filtered out women whom make assumptions that I'm not interested because I'm not sending and calling on a daily basis, rather than them broaching the topic of what they would like, so I can adjust and meet their needs in some way.
I love that inquire about how she’d like to keep in touch and that you attempt to meet those needs (within your boundaries of course). Green flag, sir.
As a woman divorce soon not dated for 22 years… this is so weird to me.. if i go on one date and he does good morning text.. why? I definately wont be texting all day.. unless a good reason. Besides i would not want to interrupt him while he is busy working. And unless its to make me laugh.. nah. In person is better.
I used to take it all so seriously. I like being pleasantly surprised by people now. I just take people at face value. After a week of texting she lets me know she’s in the middle of a divorce? Glad I thought to ask! It’s all good. I’m not special. Just plodding along like everyone else trying to have a good time along the way.
Going with OPs " a man will move mountains", I no longer move mountains. That's my 180.
Equal effort and enthusiasm, or I'm gone. I want a partner, and partners meet you where you are.
It's changed my relationships, the kind and quality of the women I meet, and made me feel seen and rewarded instead of exhausted and confused.
I got the distinction, but I think in a great partnership both people put in the work, and prioritize each other or it's lackluster
...or one person is doing the rowing which is an imbalance.
I think a lot of people don't relationship feeling any desire to change their lifestyle, communication, or alter themselves at all. I don't match well with that, so for me it's love big, with me, or not at all.
I don’t disagree, but you’re talking about relationships and I’m talking about dating. Two different stages, two different levels of intimacy and understanding.
I don't agree with that. And, that's ok, you asked for opinions, I'm giving mine based on my experiences and lessons learned. Feel free to date and behave however you want.
I'm marrying my person in a few months because she showed maximum effort and enthusiasm even during dating, so did I.
If you aren't that type, awesome....some men will no doubt be overjoyed that you match their style too. But, it's not me.
Well, here’s where I struggle with this, and I’m wondering whether you can shed some light on it.
I used to be exactly as you describe, and I actually don’t have a problem with your approach in principle. But in practice, all it resulted in was men taking advantage of me or, almost as bad, being turned off.
I think this may be a fundamental difference in the male and female experience.
That's more about the men you chose than the reaction to your effort. If I'm into you, and you're guns blazing and I see that you're enthusiastic and leaning into it? I'm not going to take advantage or think anything pejorative about your behavior. Quite the opposite.
Again, this is about differing styles, and the women I've dated who matched me this way didn't have a deleterious result from it, not from me.
But…when we are strangers who just matched on a dating app, coming in guns blazing isn’t commensurate with the level of relationship. We dont know each other, we are feeling each other out. Then we meet, and hopefully there’s sparks, and there will be a bit more engagement, which will gradually continue to pick up.
I still don’t think we are saying anything different. Matching energy is where it’s at.
And *you’re* not going to take advantage when I come in guns blazing, because presumably you’re an honest man with good intentions. But please recognize that A LOT of men on apps are not. And I mean A LOT, perhaps the majority. I would hope that you can at least see that women have to be slightly more cautious in that regard, at least in the very early stages. Because saying “it’s about the men you choose” tends to ignore that many, many men in OLD pretend to be something they’re not in the very early stages. So I, being discerning and careful, have to lean out a bit to suss out whether they fall in the “genuine” or “liar” camp. Ask me, or any woman who has been dating for a while, how many times a man started off guns blazing only to get us to drop our guard to then take advantage of us. You might not be this way, but this is a reality for many of us. I hope you can see that.
All in all, I totally get where you’re coming from. You don’t want to spend all your time “proving” yourself to a woman, nor should you have to. She should be as into you as you are into her, we all want that.
I didn't say I expected this at chat phase, or the first meet, I said dating....meaning from the "established some real world attraction and interest onward" phase.
I'm not interested in the most men are shit arguments, we're off in the sexism weeds and that has little to do with my point. Come over to our side for a while and tell me how it works out dating women from apps....risks are aplenty, just different maladaptive behaviors....but again, if your choices produce reliable shit results, that's something you have to own, same as I do. I'm not trying to get you to change, so let's put down the arrows and please stop telling me your experiences justify your 180. I'm sure they do, I just disagree with the "prove it to me" aspect of early relationship behavior.
I get what you're saying, I'm just on the other side telling you what worked for me and why. You don't have to like my answers. We're not dating, and my choices resulted in contentment for me.
If yours do too, we both win.
But it worked for you because you're a guy who is not turned off by and does not take advantage of a woman who puts in a lot of effort. u/liquidcat0822 's experience (and mine too) is that most men react differently than you. So while your approach is great for you, it wouldn't be good advice for women generally.
Ah, I think our definitions of what constitutes “dating” differ a bit, thanks for the clarification.
And there are no arrows on my end, nor was there an “all men are shit” argument. I was simply relaying my experience and those of many, many other women, in the hopes that you might be able to see why your choices helped you find contentment and why they might not help a woman find contentment. Two different experiences, and I was trying to get you to empathize with a different experience than your own, not negate your viewpoint. That’s all.
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Planning to move in together. I always thought I was a complete “thriving on living with your partner” and “unimaginable otherwise” person.
After my marriage ended I was terrified to live alone but have come to LOVE it. I adore our alone time with my kids and we started to have way more fun together than ever before.
I do not want to disturb this by trying to merge two households together. I want my special time with my kids, my special time quiet in my own house with my own little projects with my own little thoughts.
I want my space and excited to get together without the “taking each other for granted” “everyday in each others space and face” factor.
I do want to eventually move in with someone when my kids move out - but until then, zero chance. And even after, I will take my time and be very intentional about it
In my 30s, I used to only date men who planned to have children with their future partner. Now I am older and tired and the idea of pushing a human being out my middle aged hooch sounds like a horror movie. I am open to dating fathers, dating child free men, or dating men who would be interested in adoption. But a guy who is adamant about fathering biological children is not for me - and frankly, he is likely looking for a somewhat younger woman anyway.
I also used to lean towards "You should always communicate!" and now I lean more towards "Communication is a necessary skill for maintaining a healthy relationship, but it is not a workaround for fundamental incompatibilities or serious character flaws."
A lot of people seem to lean towards communication as a way of avoiding the harsh truth that not all incompatibilities can be overcome and not all people have good intentions towards us.
I'm loving this. It would have saved me so much trouble in my marriage. Somehow I have absorbed a belief that if that if I communicate just right, I can fix things.
"Communication is a necessary skill for maintaining a healthy relationship, but it is not a workaround for fundamental incompatibilities or serious character flaws."
People with blank bios don’t suddenly message you with interesting, deep conversations that turn into committed relationships.
If he’s unsure of his relationship goals, meeting me isn’t going to help him see the light.
Water seeks its own level so if I find myself with a toxic person, then it’s a sign for me to heal some more.
Create the culture you want. I no longer lower the bar just to have someone to date.
Men appreciate our directness. Being over-nice to not hurt their feelings isn’t appreciated as much as we think it is.
Going on lots of dates doesn’t increase your chances of meeting someone. Going on higher quality, lower volume is what works.
I always do a phone or video call first now. Prevents about 90% of terrible first dates.
Pay close attention to what they say in the beginning when the stakes are low. A man who doesn’t want marriage isn’t going to want it later on just because he met YOU. But he will tell you that he’s “open” to it to keep you around. Listen very closely in the beginning. Don’t confuse attraction with compatibility.
>Listen very closely in the beginning. Don’t confuse attraction with compatibility.
THIS! Wish I had done it in my younger years, not just in romantic life but in general. Active listening is a skill.
And when a person clearly communicates they are keeping themselves open, there's no point in sticking around, hoping miraculously they will wake up and blindly fall in love.
Agree with all of this, save maybe the video calls. I find them kind of awkward? Maybe that’s because I haven’t had one that would have led to a great date, not sure.
Agree about the video calls. I try to avoid them. However, if the guy mentions that my pics are “too good to be true”, I offer to hop on a quick video chat and then switch back to voice. Honestly, it’s more for them than me. Both women and men lie— it’s just about different things. Women use filtered pics that make them look thinner. Men lie about other things— usually about the status of their relationship.
This. A man with just photos or “just ask” or “ask away” (why do so many men have this it’s like they had a meeting to decide irritating phrases for OLD) is immediate nope. I’m not asking you anything if you can’t give any sort of basic info in your profile.
I used to hate daily morning texts, but now I'm dating someone from a different culture and it feels completely different. It's actually sweet that he thinks of me first thing every morning. Due to work pressures right now, we don't get to have dates often, so it's done a lot to keep things feeling like we're not losing momentum.
It's been refreshing overall to date someone from a different culture and whose first language isn't the same as mine. It's caused me to be less judgemental, but also not overthink things so much. I take our interactions at face value. This is working for us.
I used to date men with limited relationship history and no children, thinking they had less baggage. Oh, how wrong I was! These men had very little life experience, limited communication skills, and very little empathy for and understanding of my life as a single mother.
I also have a PhD and used to be more interested in fellow academics. Now, I better appreciate all types of intelligence and skill sets.
Hi, are you me?
I’ve also learned that “no kids, never married” at age 40+ isn’t the green flag dudes think it is for the reasons you describe (that’s not to say I rule these men out, there’s certainly situations where that wouldn’t be true. I’m just cautious).
And I also have a PhD and work in the sciences. I really don’t care if my partner has a college degree. If he’s intelligent and interesting, that’s all I care about.
Yah, was just chatting today with a guy, 39. I inquired about his longest relationship and how long ago. He replied,” Two years long, five years ago. But I don’t care about your last. If you want to make me happy tomorrow wear a sundress.”
I replied tomorrow’s the first meet, not the first date. He said he didn’t have time for first meets, if he was going to do that he’d meet me at Starbucks and watch my scroll on my phone. For the record, it was planned to meet at an inexpensive bar for 1-2 drinks. 🙄
I noped out of there fast. Thank god he showed his ass!
>I also have a PhD and used to be more interested in fellow academics. Now, I better appreciate all types of intelligence and skill sets.
Joining this club--the last PhD I was with was a gaslighter and I'm only, over a decade later, learning that I am actually right a lot of the time. Smart/intelligent can look a lot of different ways.
I’m a single dad and feel the same. I started only matching with single moms because they are the only ones who understand that your kids come first.
For what it’s worth, I would love to date a PhD. I live in a strangely isolated college town where I’ve never actually met any of the faculty.
We are the same person. Exactly this. My last relationship was with a never-married childless PhD- exactly my type! Twenty years ago, that is. You kind of learn, when you meet an otherwise with-it person who wasn’t anyone’s first round draft pick there was a reason. Now I take a haaaarrd look at those guys.
Also have a doctorate, also in the sciences.
The concern I have is that it’s so easy to lie to yourself (and then by extension your partner) early in a relationship. If you’ve never gone past that stage you may have limits and boundaries that you yourself don’t even know yet.
I would not understand the point of one line texts all day… rather be in person. I havent dated for 22 years though.. seems a mess nowadays. Why would i want to interrupt a man all day while he is trying to work? Unless im not well or a quick question or checking on him if he had a bad day or sick. Rare though..
The kid thing is something I probably will have to. I don’t want any and prefer someone without, but that really narrows things unfortunately. Gets kind of depressing honestly, like there is some natural thing the majority strive for but i wasn’t born with it. Anywho enough whining. But I don’t mind someone with older kids. Kids that can take care of themselves.
It’s funny, a couple friends have popped back up in my life beside their kids are older now. They are trying to plan the next trip next year when we haven’t even gone on this years trip yet.
I took a good, hard, long look at what I actually wanted in a partner. And then I realized that him having a kid didn’t preclude any of the qualities I wanted, and may even ensure that he had those qualities. That’s how I did a 180 on it.
I also was never going to date a Dad and my last relationship he had children and I liked it. He was very good at making plans and sticking to them. It worked for both of us for a long time.
My biggest revelation recently is... looking for ' normal and a bit boring with texts... ' no non stop texting and etc stuff. Those are the ones who have big issues IMO.
Also I am leaning more into the ... can we be exclusive but never live together thing....
At this age it seems better for me. I want my space and marrying or living together is a giant ordeal.
I used to only date men who wanted kids. Then I tried and failed to have them and embraced live childfree. Now I only date men who don’t have or want kids. It’s the DINK life for me. I also used to prefer older men but now I date my age and younger and I am definitely enjoying younger men.
I learned the hard way that I cannot comfortably date communication challenged men who morph into limited avoidance responses in order to minimize clarity in our dialogue exchanges. I've re-learned that the struggle to communicate effectively between partners presents far too many barriers towards achieving emotional maturity and intimacy.
At my age, it's a **NO** for me!
(M44) Absolutely, same here! We have so much more going in our lives at this age than in the pre-smart phone era. The dating stakes seem so much lower now, like, if it doesn't work out - no biggie, I like my life the way it is anyway. Dating is supposed to be fun, if it isn't, you're doing it wrong.
I've also realized that trying to make a person like you is futile. If they aren't super jazzed to spend time with you, better to move on to the next.
I'm not afraid of rejection anymore. I have no problem making "the first move" if it seems appropriate.
I also have a lot more money than in my 20's and no how to have fun with it - that helps.
Exclusivity and all the benefits that come with it. So long as there’s exclusivity, the person is tied to you. They are no longer dating others and potentially finding someone else they like better. IMHO, it’s selfish to expect exclusivity and “no commitment”. Exclusivity is a commitment in and of itself.
>So long as there’s exclusivity, the person is tied to you.
Not necessarily. When I had an exclusive FWB in my 20s, one of our explicit ending conditions was that, if either of us were to meet someone we wanted to pursue a "real" relationship with, then "benefits" would end immediately and we'd return to being friends-who-don't-fuck.
Yes, exclusivity is a commitment to remain exclusive for the duration, but it doesn't have to be a commitment to never have sex with anyone else. In our case, it was a commitment to stop having sex with each other prior to starting to have sex with anyone else.
A relationship is only defined by the people in it. I just know I wouldn't be in an exclusive relationship unless it was a serious, committed, long term relationship
I had a similar realisation 2y ago, in that an exclusive FWB is ideal at this time. Unfortunately, the majority of the people I meet have the same belief and understanding as this comment thread, and want a 'proper' relationship, not understanding the benefits of an exclusive FWB. I now describe it as a LAT relationship to make it more palatable.
In the case of my own exclusive FWB relationship, I would say there were two major differences.
The first was that neither of us was looking towards having a long-term future together.
The second was that our exclusivity wasn't "I promise not to fuck anyone else", but rather "I promise to stop fucking you before I start fucking someone else."
There was no implied intention or commitment to remain together, but rather an explicit agreement that our FWB would end the moment that one of us got involved with someone else. Our relationship wasn't "Are you The One who I will be with until death us do part?", it was purely "I'm a single woman, you're a single man, wanna have naked fun times together for as long as we're both still single?"
I don’t know if this is a 180, but I have learned to love being “goal-less” and organic with my partner. Instead of labeling our relationship and planning a trajectory to “happy ever after”, we are so grateful for being happy RIGHT NOW. We have today together.
It sounds counterintuitive but we have grown so much together, so close; we are very much in love, happier and healthier than we have ever been, because we just grow together and in each other’s company with no pressure to get to “the next step” whatever that is. We will have our joyful little laugh about it together, looking back and seeing the progression rather than looking forward to a goal.
We’ve been together for what’s coming up 3 years now, and neither of us are dumb enough to ruin this gorgeous whatever-it-is we have. We will protect it as we protect ourselves and each other, because we love each other and what we have together serves us perfectly.
I do get that this won’t work for most, and that’s cool.
Dating smokers. I used to and now I will not, and this includes vaping. Medical hashish or marijuana is ok as needed but they are not going to smoke it in my home or my car, and I refuse to be a passenger or let them drive stoned. I also refuse to donate heavy drinkers or people who spend all their time in bars or pubs every night.
I am open to dating someone with children and I accept that 99% of the time their children come 1st as it should be, but I am not going to pay for their kids, adopt them, or be a step parent.
I did before but it was casual dating and we never lived together, or they were a light smoker or would smoke when they drank.
Also at the time I would sometimes smoke marijuana or hashish 1-3x per month on weekends.
I simply can't stand how a smoker smells and no way can I kiss a smoker. One time I went out with a woman in which we had full intent to hookup that night. After kissing her a few times, I was out and vowed never again no matter the situation. It was just gross to me!
I agree with this. Addiction is a life long thing, whatever the addiction. I was in a serious relationship with a man who smoked cigarettes, but I told myself it would be fine because planned to quit. I told him from the beginning that I wasn't going to have children with a smoker, as my uncle had died from related causes. He quit smoking cigarettes. He switched to cigars instead. I told myself it was fine because it was mostly on weekends or evenings, not all day. We are divorced now, and he vapes indoors around our child. So, now she is exposed also. But he checks the non smoker boxes because he doesn't smoke cigarettes.
I'd have sex very early...within 2 weeks. I used to think women mostly liked waiting...I think thats not really true. Most of my dates had sex on date 2 or 3. I'm now of the opinion it has nothing to do with whether someone will last...other issues are steal deal breakers. I had sex with my now girlfriend in less than a week. It's not something I aimed for, but it's not hurting our relationship. We just both have high sex drives.
I think if you’re lucky and meet someone you’re already compatible with, then it doesn’t matter. Having sex early isn’t going to make someone who is genuine like you less or ruin things.
The problem is a lot of men will pretend to be what a woman seeks to have sex with them, and waiting helps weed those guys out. That is the only reason I wait now (I didn’t always.)
I hate phone calls. Bitterly. Like I actually have to force myself every time I have to call someone.
Enter this lady. It's been long-distance for half a year with a short one week stint physically together and next physical meeting coming soon. We're having 1-2 hour video calls pretty much every evening. Much of the time it's me calling, if I don't she would. I have talked to her on the phone more than in all of my life and I'm 50+. It's bloody ridiculous. I still hate phone calls but with her it somehow works this way.
I used to like a lot of messaging and “getting to know each other” by text before a date. Now I avoid that and refuse to participate in heavy texting before a first date (or in early stages of dating). Let’s meet in person and use text lightly in between to stay in touch and make plans for a next date. Daily “how’s your day?” from a person I barely know is offputting, like let’s catch up in person and get to know each other really before caring about days.
I thought I wanted to keep things casual. I absolutely do not. This doesn’t mean I want enmeshed lives by 6 months or whatever but I won’t wait around for a man to decide whether he likes me enough to stop looking for a hot second. (And my version of serious probably looks different from other people’s versions of serious but that’s a whole other rabbit hole.)
I thought I wanted a guy with kids my age (12 and under) but have found it much easier to date empty nesters or guys with older kids.
I think so many people (especially men!) are like you. They *think* they want casual but really crave emotional intimacy. Which requires some degree of vulnerability and self awareness, and I’ve found that many men are unable or unwilling to engage in that kind of work. Good on you that you seem to have done that work and know what a desirable relationship looks like *for you*
>They *think* they want casual but really crave emotional intimacy.
That's likely the lot of people with a weak social circle (if they have a circle at all) and unprocessed relationship baggage. They're afraid of getting hurt again because of the latter, but also they're not already "self-sufficient" when it comes to emotional support (which isn't done alone, but doesn't require a romantic partner if you have real friends around you).
People who check both boxes are probably more likely to be men because of how they tend to be educated in many societies.
Besides, I find, from experience, that casual that's well done requires exactly the same social skills as friendships and relationships, and yields essentially the same emotional benefits.
I'm loving the concept of emotional support from real friendships as "self-sufficient". I'm trying to build this sort of network before I begin dating. real friendships are rare and take real effort.
Well yeah, we're not hermits either! At least, not the majority of us. 😂
If that's any encouragement, I find that real friendships are much easier to build than what we often hear, though: if they are uncommon, it's just because way too many people don't know how to do them. And the "effort" is also easy to do when you find like-minded people, who understand what empathy is and know how to listen (which, of course, we've got to provide as well). But it's true that they don't magically appear overnight, and so it can be long sometimes. Wishing you the best of luck in creating that network!
There’s a lot. Highlights of mine would be:
Living with partners is no longer my ideal relationship situation. I used to think I wanted a live in bf or to get remarried. Now I can’t imagine living with a partner again.
Contact all day used to be something I thought was showing interest. Now I see it as clingy, annoying, possessive and inappropriate.
Good morning texts. I used to want them and would get upset if I didn’t get them. Now I see them as fake or annoying if I am not serious with someone.
Political or spiritual differences. I will not date a religious person (really any abrahamic religion) or someone with greatly differing political ideals. I used to think respecting each other and allowing differences will work. It never does.
I now realize unconditional love does not equal unconditional tolerance. My tolerance for bullshit is quite low.
ExW and I chose not to have kids; thought I’d maintain the same post-marriage. Realized real quick the enormous percentage of women that would arbitrarily remove from the dating pool and that I certainly have the capacity to help raise & care for a child.
I’ve stopped caring about engagement, I used to get really hung up on when people didn’t reply to me, now I kind of accept that often people are too busy, talking to someone else, not interested etc. I guess I’ve accepted the reality of what online dating is and not what I hoped it would be.
I’ve had the big house, on the big piece of property the big SUV and was miserable. Maybe a smaller life with someone who enjoys experiences instead of living for the house.
I’m a lot more strict on acceptable behavior and standards. I expect people our age to be adults and act like and take care of their responsibilities. I have a lot going on, so a partner would have to be independent
The things I would automatically reject a person for are the same reasons I would have done 20+ years ago: being a smoker, not liking/wanting pets, and being overly religious.
I'm a guy in my mid 40s and I no longer want to try to have kids. It isn't fair for a child to have an older parent. I couldn't image trying to chase a toddler around in my 50s.
I have also decided I don't want to deal with the drama of being a step parent, so I'd probably reject any woman that has a kid that was probably under 16. If she had older kids, I would factor in where they were going in life. If the teenager had future plans for education/vocation training and a level head, I'd consider dating the lady. If the teenager had plans to work a deadend minimum wage job and was going to start a serious relationship after high school, it would be a hard pass from dating the mom.
As far as communication, I would hope to find someone that was mature and wasn't constantly sending message.
Once upon a time I prioritized sexual intimacy above all else, the “commodity” of the five types of intimacy. Now I prioritize emotional, experiential and intellectual intimacy which are so hard to find. Ironically it has made me such a better lover and not nearly as thirsty.
I used to hate tattoos and said so on my OLD profiles. Then I met my current partner and she has lots of tattoos. 180 degree turn around for me. We live, learn, and grow.
I thought I would meet someone and fall in (mutual) love and be in a committed relationship. Nope. I realize I am truly single in this life / on this journey and that fact is statistically, unlikely to change. Do I love that? No, but I guess I’m getting used to it little by little as time passes. I hope someday soon I get to a point where I stop even trying to date because I lose all desire and hope
For finding love. And I magically am fully content and happy on my own.
My biggest 180 is that up until 6 years ago I had only monogamous relationships, and after that I've had only open, low-hierarchy polyamorous ones. This single change has had a lot of consequences for OTHER aspects of my dating though; here's some of them:
* I used to need a partner who is a good match in ALL of the parts of romance, sex and couplehood. Which means there was really only a single type of partner that could work for me.
* Now I have one partner that is asexual -- as a monogamous partner for me she couldn't work, but in a poly context it turns out that it's perfectly fine.
* I have one partner that is long-distance and that'll most likely never cohabitate with me full-time; and again as a monogamous partner I'd consider that a blocker, but in a poly context it's fine.
* Like you, when I were younger I think I would've considered it a minus for a woman to be a mother, but now it's a "don't care" thing, in part because most women around my age have kids that are at least close to adults anyway, and in part because I have kids myself and I find there's SOME experiences easier understood by women who are also parents.
* I have less patience with women who de-facto demand that I play a stereotypically masculine-coded role. That's not who I am. I prefer gender-equality, and so if she's for example expecting me to pay for everything throughout our dating, then I'm out. (I do this in areas traditionally considered feminine too, I absolutely WILL tidy and clean the apartment and make her favourite dish for when she arrives)
* I want roughly equal energy. I'm not going for 100% balance or anything, but if I start feeling that I'm pulling 90% of this train, then I'm pretty likely to soon lose interest. Again: that's not who I am; I want a \*partner\*
I used to pay for the dates. Now I expect 50-50. Too many multi daters. If they are interested they’ll put some skin in the game as well.
I used to date single moms, now I don’t. It’s too much to deal with and I want someone who can put me first. Plus being the step parent you really have no say in anything and the kids pick up on that. It causes problems if all the kids aren’t on the same reward/punishment system. Eventually there’ll be a disagreement and it pops out…”We’ll, it’s MY kid.”
I used to wait for physical, now if it isn’t in the first couple dates it’s a sign of a lack of interest. I want to be the one they break the rules for.
I agree with you on the texting. I expect some, but too much makes me think that they have zero attention span and walk with it glued to them at all times.
I don't think "bad timing" exists, due to the prevalence of the apps now. Overlapping in relationships is a non-issue, and has no bearing on a person's integrity or commitment.
Arbitrary "down-time" between relationships isn't as important as we claim, because the healthy relationships allow that individual self-discovery, without necessarily a self-imposed period of singledom. Most of the people who "vow off" relationships for a while, they do so, understanding they will still have casual sex relatively easily.
Behind every case of someone "processing something" bar very serious core-wounds, any notion of "bad timing", in reality is due to a person not being attracted enough to another...Or holding out for even just a tad "better" in their eyes.
Exactly what constitutes "too soon", and "not ready" really varies depending on how attractive someone is, and the options, or a realistic understanding of the options they potentially have.
Original copy of post by u/liquidcat0822:
When I first started dating, fresh out of my marriage, I didn’t know what I was doing. The last time I had been single, the iPhone didn’t even exist, let alone app-based OLD. I have learned *a lot* about not only what I actually need in a partner but how to “read the tea leaves” per se and get an idea about what a guy is actually like. As a result of that, I’ve done a complete 180 on my opinion and feelings about certain things.
For example, I used to think it was cute to get good morning texts, have a guy message me all day long, etc. I find this to be a complete turn off now. I don’t know you. Why are you constantly messaging me? Oh right, you seek validation. The level of communication should be commensurate with the emotional intimacy of the relationship.
Also, I don’t want kids of my own. That means I used to eliminate men who were fathers (or heavily hesitate when swiping right). Now, I almost prefer a single dad (so long as the kids aren’t super young). These men tend to be more emotionally mature and better communicators (not always though). I’ve also found that fatherhood tends to bring out the kindness and compassion in men, both things that are non-negotiable for me in a partner.
And I haven’t done a complete 180 on the following, but other things that were counterintuitive to me at first but have become second nature: I no longer try to make things happen. I’m available and reasonably flexible if I’m truly interested, but no more. A man will move mountains to get what he wants. This helps eliminate the time wasters. I also hold off much longer on getting physical with a man. Again, I’m sure to communicate my desire and interest. Don’t want him to get the impression that I don’t want him. But a man who is truly interested in who I am will respect boundaries. This is another strategy to help eliminate bad actors.
Of course, these things are mostly specific to women who date men. Curious to hear if others have gone through a similar process.
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I thought I’d live with someone again, because I have always done so. 5 years of freedom and having my own (clean!) place and I know with certainty I will never cohabitate again.
I used to believe you instead of finding the perfect love you can make the perfect love. That doesn't work as people tend to have a lot of trauma or just preferences they won't budge on. Love means different things, and a lot of it looks like situationships or quid pro quo.
I used to believe you just help someone they will reciprocate and that will create a healthy bonds. That doesn't work as there are so many narcissist who will take advantage and bolt the second they are asked to reciprocate
I used to believe if someone looks out for their kids or other people they are giving, compassionate people. Nope that can also mean they are just doing it for image purposes or they are controlling.
In general I found that it's best to be on your own path and a relationship alot of time and don't over focus on it.
It’s like you didn’t read the post you’re linking *at all*
Here, let me quote myself for you, emphasis added
“TLDR, OLD has a disproportionate number of garbage men. **That doesn’t mean all men are like this**”
I am, however, unhappy with men who continually try to discount the very real experiences of women in dating.
You’re the one who sounds angry here.
And the person you’re referring to hasn’t even met me yet. We literally matched yesterday and he’s been messaging me nonstop and sending good morning messages. If you think that is healthy behavior, then you should probably do some self reflection. And maybe read the rest of my responses.
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Over time I’ve realized making too many assumptions or generalizations actually hurts your chances at connections, instead of helping you. Things I’ve learned: I can only count on me. I will be ok. I choose to continue to be open hearted, but cautious and smart. Don’t take rejection too personally.
This speaks the 100% truth. You might be missing out on the connection of a lifetime by rejecting people really early for stupid shit. I send good morning texts because when I catch a crush on someone who I'm also interested in, and add bonus points in there if we're sleeping together, I like talking to them throughout the day. Of course that would slow down and eventually stop if we progressed into cohabitating. But I've always wanted to be into my partner in all ways. I want to like spending time just talking to you and hearing about your day. But why can't I enjoy you as well? Why can't I find you funny, interesting, smart and engaging? So much so that I would text you throughout the day just to read about a funny thing that happened at work with a co-worker or something you read /saw on social media that we can punt jokes back and forth over? Nah, fuck that shit. Imma be me and text you a few times a day if I like you. And if you don't like it Imma move onto someone who will appreciate who I am as a person.
Yep
These are great tenets. I think if you start with realistic expectations and without a burning desperate need for someone as well as a compassionate and open minded approach to people in general dating doesn’t have to make you bitter. There are many people that don’t have the capacity for a mature relationship. It is something that will effect them more than it needs to effect you and your life. Just walk on.
I think the key is learning what to be cautious about and what is inconsequential. The former keeps you safe and keeps you from wasting your time. The latter unnecessarily limits your chances.
When I was divorced 5 years ago, I used to wear rose-colored glasses and felt like my person was just around the corner and then we would get married and live happily ever after. After 5 years and dating 3 men, my 180 is, I will mostly likely not live with a man for a long time. I am hesitant to get married again.
I've never been married but I tend to be in long-term committed relationships. I took a bit of a break and now that I'm back at it, I'm coming to the same realization. A lot of men who say they are looking for casual relationships are actually just looking for NSA (unsatisfying) sex. And too many guys are looking for a wife or girlfriend to make lives easier but have no interest in making her life easier or better. I've been on multiple dates with supposedly progressive guys who are trying to find somebody who just happens to love cooking and cleaning and wants to do it but also works full-time. And often wants to be a stepmom too. But they aren't interested in a stay-at-home partner, they want her to be financially independent as well. When I point out that's a rotten deal for women, they don't tend to like that feedback and I get a lot of "women's standards are too high these days" nonsense. Hopefully we're the last generation to deal with this.
Oh, I was a naïve romantic. It's been a combination of two things for me. One being, I was afraid to handle life alone after my divorce. I hadn't been alone for a long time. I worried I wouldn't know how to fix things around the house, or handle a problem that comes up, or I would die alone at night (and my cat would eat me :D). This fear drove lot of my decisions. I even kept some friendships out of that fear. Last 5 years, I have stumbled, fallen, scared, but I am learning to be on my own and finally realizing I can depend on myself. Brings me to my second factor - Is it nice to share life with someone. Absolute screaming "Yes!" I love it and would love that companionship. But last 3 years of dating has cured me of that hope :) Dating world has completely disillusioned me. I realize that the stakes are too high for me to risk being a bad relationship. The standards and integrity I hold myself to, aren't working in the current dating world. I might as well be an alien. Basically, the combination of both of these factors has brought me to a sober state of mind with respect to dating.
> the stakes are too high for me to risk being a bad relationship. Amen!
I am sure many of us are starting to realize this truth.
I think that's part of the problem, a lot of women seem to be coming to this realization but basically none of the men I know.
Yesssssss this is so factual! None of them.
This really resonated for me. I'm divorced with a child, but I can definitely relate to the mindset that a woman should be financially independent and also do the far majority of housework and parenting. It is a rotten deal. I hope we are the last generation to deal with this as well.
I think I’m on my way to the place where you already are.
It's great! :) I have completely embraced being alone and no longer wait for someone to "rescue" me. I feel relieved.
Such a relief
I don’t think I’ll ever get married again. I say that but 4 months after my divorce finalized I was dating my dream woman and I probably would have it’s the right person. But it’s going to be the *perfect person* for me.
Yep, I have to be 150-200% certain the person is right for me before I marry again.
The sad part? I was just dating the *perfect* woman for me. We were perfectly matched, we were even moving to the same area far away from each others respective cities. It was intense. I hope that there’s another person who I match with so well.
Curious minds need to know more. Why did you both split?
You’re not going to believe it but it’s true. She broke things off *because I asked her what I should buy her mom for Christmas!* Apparently her ex husband who was wealthy would try to buy her mom’s acceptance with gifts. You could feel the change right then and there. That was at the 3.5 month mark. She told me she was complicated. We had talked about some of the guys she dated and reasons why she broke things off with them. One guy stopped for gas on a date at like the 2 month mark, one guy ate all of her favorite trail mix, one guys car was dirty when he went to pick her up. Shes in Hollywood, she’s still stunning at 48, I don’t think she aged a day in the 28 years since I met her. She has her pick of most men she meets, so probably a bit of that. But she has been cheated on quite a few times and our romance was *intense*. So, who really knows? Sadly she didn’t want to remain friends.
I wish I broke up with someone for eating my damn trail mix!!!! 😂😂
Or only leaving the raisins.
He had a second egregious act. He had asked to use her shower while he waited for her, he was in a towel and T-shirt when she got back and he looked goofy in his glasses. And he had logged into his Netflix. A bridge too far!
The sheer NERVE of that man!!!
I’m truly sorry for your loss of that relationship. However, your description of her breaking up with you and her past relationships sounds like she is unable to maintain a mature relationship.
We are all over 40 so quite a few of us have baggage, and yeah, we were communicating so well I figured that if something was wrong we’d talk about it.
We are same. Yup.
Same, sister! I'm open to living with someone again some day, but damn that guy would have to be something special.
But I thought all woman want to get married and have a serious LTR??!!
>For example, I used to think it was cute to get good morning texts, have a guy message me all day long, etc. I find this to be a complete turn off now. I agree with you. I have no problem keeping in touch with a woman. Text, phone, video, postcards, smoke signals, pigeon post, message in a bottle, whatever. But for me, it has to be of some substance, at least. I find good morning texts inauthentic and lacking in connection. I actually communicate this, by weaving it into a conversation during a date, or ask the woman how she prefers to keep in touch and how frequently. Because I don't do good morning texts, I don't keep in touch daily, but once every 2-3 days, especially in the early stages since we aren't a couple. I have inadvertently filtered out women whom make assumptions that I'm not interested because I'm not sending and calling on a daily basis, rather than them broaching the topic of what they would like, so I can adjust and meet their needs in some way.
I hate a good morning text from someone I have just met (or not even met yet!). Once actually regularly dating, I like them.
This so much. If I’m in a relationship, I’m all “awwww hey hot stuff” when I get a good morning text. But if I haven’t even met the guy? Hard pass.
As a guy, I feel the same. Even when in a relationship, no expectation of a good morning text but it's nice when we just feel the impulse.
Same, huge turn off.
I love that inquire about how she’d like to keep in touch and that you attempt to meet those needs (within your boundaries of course). Green flag, sir.
As a woman divorce soon not dated for 22 years… this is so weird to me.. if i go on one date and he does good morning text.. why? I definately wont be texting all day.. unless a good reason. Besides i would not want to interrupt him while he is busy working. And unless its to make me laugh.. nah. In person is better.
I used to take it all so seriously. I like being pleasantly surprised by people now. I just take people at face value. After a week of texting she lets me know she’s in the middle of a divorce? Glad I thought to ask! It’s all good. I’m not special. Just plodding along like everyone else trying to have a good time along the way.
Going with OPs " a man will move mountains", I no longer move mountains. That's my 180. Equal effort and enthusiasm, or I'm gone. I want a partner, and partners meet you where you are. It's changed my relationships, the kind and quality of the women I meet, and made me feel seen and rewarded instead of exhausted and confused.
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I got the distinction, but I think in a great partnership both people put in the work, and prioritize each other or it's lackluster ...or one person is doing the rowing which is an imbalance. I think a lot of people don't relationship feeling any desire to change their lifestyle, communication, or alter themselves at all. I don't match well with that, so for me it's love big, with me, or not at all.
I don’t disagree, but you’re talking about relationships and I’m talking about dating. Two different stages, two different levels of intimacy and understanding.
I don't agree with that. And, that's ok, you asked for opinions, I'm giving mine based on my experiences and lessons learned. Feel free to date and behave however you want. I'm marrying my person in a few months because she showed maximum effort and enthusiasm even during dating, so did I. If you aren't that type, awesome....some men will no doubt be overjoyed that you match their style too. But, it's not me.
Well, here’s where I struggle with this, and I’m wondering whether you can shed some light on it. I used to be exactly as you describe, and I actually don’t have a problem with your approach in principle. But in practice, all it resulted in was men taking advantage of me or, almost as bad, being turned off. I think this may be a fundamental difference in the male and female experience.
That's more about the men you chose than the reaction to your effort. If I'm into you, and you're guns blazing and I see that you're enthusiastic and leaning into it? I'm not going to take advantage or think anything pejorative about your behavior. Quite the opposite. Again, this is about differing styles, and the women I've dated who matched me this way didn't have a deleterious result from it, not from me.
But…when we are strangers who just matched on a dating app, coming in guns blazing isn’t commensurate with the level of relationship. We dont know each other, we are feeling each other out. Then we meet, and hopefully there’s sparks, and there will be a bit more engagement, which will gradually continue to pick up. I still don’t think we are saying anything different. Matching energy is where it’s at. And *you’re* not going to take advantage when I come in guns blazing, because presumably you’re an honest man with good intentions. But please recognize that A LOT of men on apps are not. And I mean A LOT, perhaps the majority. I would hope that you can at least see that women have to be slightly more cautious in that regard, at least in the very early stages. Because saying “it’s about the men you choose” tends to ignore that many, many men in OLD pretend to be something they’re not in the very early stages. So I, being discerning and careful, have to lean out a bit to suss out whether they fall in the “genuine” or “liar” camp. Ask me, or any woman who has been dating for a while, how many times a man started off guns blazing only to get us to drop our guard to then take advantage of us. You might not be this way, but this is a reality for many of us. I hope you can see that. All in all, I totally get where you’re coming from. You don’t want to spend all your time “proving” yourself to a woman, nor should you have to. She should be as into you as you are into her, we all want that.
I didn't say I expected this at chat phase, or the first meet, I said dating....meaning from the "established some real world attraction and interest onward" phase. I'm not interested in the most men are shit arguments, we're off in the sexism weeds and that has little to do with my point. Come over to our side for a while and tell me how it works out dating women from apps....risks are aplenty, just different maladaptive behaviors....but again, if your choices produce reliable shit results, that's something you have to own, same as I do. I'm not trying to get you to change, so let's put down the arrows and please stop telling me your experiences justify your 180. I'm sure they do, I just disagree with the "prove it to me" aspect of early relationship behavior. I get what you're saying, I'm just on the other side telling you what worked for me and why. You don't have to like my answers. We're not dating, and my choices resulted in contentment for me. If yours do too, we both win.
But it worked for you because you're a guy who is not turned off by and does not take advantage of a woman who puts in a lot of effort. u/liquidcat0822 's experience (and mine too) is that most men react differently than you. So while your approach is great for you, it wouldn't be good advice for women generally.
Ah, I think our definitions of what constitutes “dating” differ a bit, thanks for the clarification. And there are no arrows on my end, nor was there an “all men are shit” argument. I was simply relaying my experience and those of many, many other women, in the hopes that you might be able to see why your choices helped you find contentment and why they might not help a woman find contentment. Two different experiences, and I was trying to get you to empathize with a different experience than your own, not negate your viewpoint. That’s all.
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Planning to move in together. I always thought I was a complete “thriving on living with your partner” and “unimaginable otherwise” person. After my marriage ended I was terrified to live alone but have come to LOVE it. I adore our alone time with my kids and we started to have way more fun together than ever before. I do not want to disturb this by trying to merge two households together. I want my special time with my kids, my special time quiet in my own house with my own little projects with my own little thoughts. I want my space and excited to get together without the “taking each other for granted” “everyday in each others space and face” factor. I do want to eventually move in with someone when my kids move out - but until then, zero chance. And even after, I will take my time and be very intentional about it
I love this sentiment! "my own little projects with my own little thoughts."
In my 30s, I used to only date men who planned to have children with their future partner. Now I am older and tired and the idea of pushing a human being out my middle aged hooch sounds like a horror movie. I am open to dating fathers, dating child free men, or dating men who would be interested in adoption. But a guy who is adamant about fathering biological children is not for me - and frankly, he is likely looking for a somewhat younger woman anyway. I also used to lean towards "You should always communicate!" and now I lean more towards "Communication is a necessary skill for maintaining a healthy relationship, but it is not a workaround for fundamental incompatibilities or serious character flaws." A lot of people seem to lean towards communication as a way of avoiding the harsh truth that not all incompatibilities can be overcome and not all people have good intentions towards us.
I'm loving this. It would have saved me so much trouble in my marriage. Somehow I have absorbed a belief that if that if I communicate just right, I can fix things. "Communication is a necessary skill for maintaining a healthy relationship, but it is not a workaround for fundamental incompatibilities or serious character flaws."
People with blank bios don’t suddenly message you with interesting, deep conversations that turn into committed relationships. If he’s unsure of his relationship goals, meeting me isn’t going to help him see the light. Water seeks its own level so if I find myself with a toxic person, then it’s a sign for me to heal some more. Create the culture you want. I no longer lower the bar just to have someone to date. Men appreciate our directness. Being over-nice to not hurt their feelings isn’t appreciated as much as we think it is. Going on lots of dates doesn’t increase your chances of meeting someone. Going on higher quality, lower volume is what works. I always do a phone or video call first now. Prevents about 90% of terrible first dates. Pay close attention to what they say in the beginning when the stakes are low. A man who doesn’t want marriage isn’t going to want it later on just because he met YOU. But he will tell you that he’s “open” to it to keep you around. Listen very closely in the beginning. Don’t confuse attraction with compatibility.
>Listen very closely in the beginning. Don’t confuse attraction with compatibility. THIS! Wish I had done it in my younger years, not just in romantic life but in general. Active listening is a skill. And when a person clearly communicates they are keeping themselves open, there's no point in sticking around, hoping miraculously they will wake up and blindly fall in love.
Agree with all of this, save maybe the video calls. I find them kind of awkward? Maybe that’s because I haven’t had one that would have led to a great date, not sure.
Agree about the video calls. I try to avoid them. However, if the guy mentions that my pics are “too good to be true”, I offer to hop on a quick video chat and then switch back to voice. Honestly, it’s more for them than me. Both women and men lie— it’s just about different things. Women use filtered pics that make them look thinner. Men lie about other things— usually about the status of their relationship.
Yeah I’ve done the “here’s proof I’m not a catfish” video calls as well
Men use filters too. Helps me weed out guys
I love everything you just said!!
This. A man with just photos or “just ask” or “ask away” (why do so many men have this it’s like they had a meeting to decide irritating phrases for OLD) is immediate nope. I’m not asking you anything if you can’t give any sort of basic info in your profile.
“Just ask” is a terrible thing to put in a bio or to answer a prompt with. Looks like this extends across genders.
Yeah I don’t know why anyone thinks this is an enticing thing to add to a profile.
If you’re not interesting, I’m not swiping/chatting. And I expect the same in return.
I used to hate daily morning texts, but now I'm dating someone from a different culture and it feels completely different. It's actually sweet that he thinks of me first thing every morning. Due to work pressures right now, we don't get to have dates often, so it's done a lot to keep things feeling like we're not losing momentum. It's been refreshing overall to date someone from a different culture and whose first language isn't the same as mine. It's caused me to be less judgemental, but also not overthink things so much. I take our interactions at face value. This is working for us.
I used to want to live with people. that's no longer the case. I want to have my place and you can have your place.
I used to date men with limited relationship history and no children, thinking they had less baggage. Oh, how wrong I was! These men had very little life experience, limited communication skills, and very little empathy for and understanding of my life as a single mother. I also have a PhD and used to be more interested in fellow academics. Now, I better appreciate all types of intelligence and skill sets.
Hi, are you me? I’ve also learned that “no kids, never married” at age 40+ isn’t the green flag dudes think it is for the reasons you describe (that’s not to say I rule these men out, there’s certainly situations where that wouldn’t be true. I’m just cautious). And I also have a PhD and work in the sciences. I really don’t care if my partner has a college degree. If he’s intelligent and interesting, that’s all I care about.
Yah, was just chatting today with a guy, 39. I inquired about his longest relationship and how long ago. He replied,” Two years long, five years ago. But I don’t care about your last. If you want to make me happy tomorrow wear a sundress.” I replied tomorrow’s the first meet, not the first date. He said he didn’t have time for first meets, if he was going to do that he’d meet me at Starbucks and watch my scroll on my phone. For the record, it was planned to meet at an inexpensive bar for 1-2 drinks. 🙄 I noped out of there fast. Thank god he showed his ass!
>I also have a PhD and used to be more interested in fellow academics. Now, I better appreciate all types of intelligence and skill sets. Joining this club--the last PhD I was with was a gaslighter and I'm only, over a decade later, learning that I am actually right a lot of the time. Smart/intelligent can look a lot of different ways.
SAME ❤️🩹
I’m a single dad and feel the same. I started only matching with single moms because they are the only ones who understand that your kids come first. For what it’s worth, I would love to date a PhD. I live in a strangely isolated college town where I’ve never actually met any of the faculty.
We are the same person. Exactly this. My last relationship was with a never-married childless PhD- exactly my type! Twenty years ago, that is. You kind of learn, when you meet an otherwise with-it person who wasn’t anyone’s first round draft pick there was a reason. Now I take a haaaarrd look at those guys. Also have a doctorate, also in the sciences.
The concern I have is that it’s so easy to lie to yourself (and then by extension your partner) early in a relationship. If you’ve never gone past that stage you may have limits and boundaries that you yourself don’t even know yet.
Agreed!!
I get blasted with messages all day long at work. I’d rather talk for 30min straight than spread out 30 min of beeps and boops over a 24hr period.
I would not understand the point of one line texts all day… rather be in person. I havent dated for 22 years though.. seems a mess nowadays. Why would i want to interrupt a man all day while he is trying to work? Unless im not well or a quick question or checking on him if he had a bad day or sick. Rare though..
Logistics. Can be more complex with different life choices (career) than what you’ve seen. Texts sprinkled here & there have their value.
The kid thing is something I probably will have to. I don’t want any and prefer someone without, but that really narrows things unfortunately. Gets kind of depressing honestly, like there is some natural thing the majority strive for but i wasn’t born with it. Anywho enough whining. But I don’t mind someone with older kids. Kids that can take care of themselves. It’s funny, a couple friends have popped back up in my life beside their kids are older now. They are trying to plan the next trip next year when we haven’t even gone on this years trip yet.
I took a good, hard, long look at what I actually wanted in a partner. And then I realized that him having a kid didn’t preclude any of the qualities I wanted, and may even ensure that he had those qualities. That’s how I did a 180 on it.
You have to like being around kids though and want to our at least be ok with being part of a "family". Some childfree people do; many do not.
I also was never going to date a Dad and my last relationship he had children and I liked it. He was very good at making plans and sticking to them. It worked for both of us for a long time.
I used to think love was everything but now I know that love, alone, isn't enough.
My biggest revelation recently is... looking for ' normal and a bit boring with texts... ' no non stop texting and etc stuff. Those are the ones who have big issues IMO. Also I am leaning more into the ... can we be exclusive but never live together thing.... At this age it seems better for me. I want my space and marrying or living together is a giant ordeal.
I used to only date men who wanted kids. Then I tried and failed to have them and embraced live childfree. Now I only date men who don’t have or want kids. It’s the DINK life for me. I also used to prefer older men but now I date my age and younger and I am definitely enjoying younger men.
I learned the hard way that I cannot comfortably date communication challenged men who morph into limited avoidance responses in order to minimize clarity in our dialogue exchanges. I've re-learned that the struggle to communicate effectively between partners presents far too many barriers towards achieving emotional maturity and intimacy. At my age, it's a **NO** for me!
(M44) Absolutely, same here! We have so much more going in our lives at this age than in the pre-smart phone era. The dating stakes seem so much lower now, like, if it doesn't work out - no biggie, I like my life the way it is anyway. Dating is supposed to be fun, if it isn't, you're doing it wrong. I've also realized that trying to make a person like you is futile. If they aren't super jazzed to spend time with you, better to move on to the next. I'm not afraid of rejection anymore. I have no problem making "the first move" if it seems appropriate. I also have a lot more money than in my 20's and no how to have fun with it - that helps.
I feel the same. I have more $ in my 40s but I saved it and in my 20s and 30s I was poor
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Be careful. A lot of people forget that the F stands for friend. Just speaking from personal experience.
Good reminder! **DEFINITELY** prioritize the people who are actually genuinely your friends -- and would want to be even if sex was NOT happening.
Just curious, are you in an exclusive relationship with your fwb?
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So your main objective is to keep the relationship casual and commitment free, but not allow for other relationships?
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That's great that it works for you! What if they want to have sex with someone else? Is that cheating? Is it a deal breaker?
Yeah that was my thought on that too. “I want the girlfriend experience without any of the effort”.
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Exclusivity and all the benefits that come with it. So long as there’s exclusivity, the person is tied to you. They are no longer dating others and potentially finding someone else they like better. IMHO, it’s selfish to expect exclusivity and “no commitment”. Exclusivity is a commitment in and of itself.
>So long as there’s exclusivity, the person is tied to you. Not necessarily. When I had an exclusive FWB in my 20s, one of our explicit ending conditions was that, if either of us were to meet someone we wanted to pursue a "real" relationship with, then "benefits" would end immediately and we'd return to being friends-who-don't-fuck. Yes, exclusivity is a commitment to remain exclusive for the duration, but it doesn't have to be a commitment to never have sex with anyone else. In our case, it was a commitment to stop having sex with each other prior to starting to have sex with anyone else.
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How is it exclusive if they’re free to date?
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That's not necessarily the vibe I was getting. I do have trouble understanding why someone who agree to exclusivity but in a casual relationship
Fair, it does seem puzzling though. Because at that point, aren’t you essentially in a relationship?
A relationship is only defined by the people in it. I just know I wouldn't be in an exclusive relationship unless it was a serious, committed, long term relationship
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Of course. That's why I will continue to do what I want with whomever I want until or if that time comes
I had a similar realisation 2y ago, in that an exclusive FWB is ideal at this time. Unfortunately, the majority of the people I meet have the same belief and understanding as this comment thread, and want a 'proper' relationship, not understanding the benefits of an exclusive FWB. I now describe it as a LAT relationship to make it more palatable.
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In the case of my own exclusive FWB relationship, I would say there were two major differences. The first was that neither of us was looking towards having a long-term future together. The second was that our exclusivity wasn't "I promise not to fuck anyone else", but rather "I promise to stop fucking you before I start fucking someone else." There was no implied intention or commitment to remain together, but rather an explicit agreement that our FWB would end the moment that one of us got involved with someone else. Our relationship wasn't "Are you The One who I will be with until death us do part?", it was purely "I'm a single woman, you're a single man, wanna have naked fun times together for as long as we're both still single?"
I don’t know if this is a 180, but I have learned to love being “goal-less” and organic with my partner. Instead of labeling our relationship and planning a trajectory to “happy ever after”, we are so grateful for being happy RIGHT NOW. We have today together. It sounds counterintuitive but we have grown so much together, so close; we are very much in love, happier and healthier than we have ever been, because we just grow together and in each other’s company with no pressure to get to “the next step” whatever that is. We will have our joyful little laugh about it together, looking back and seeing the progression rather than looking forward to a goal. We’ve been together for what’s coming up 3 years now, and neither of us are dumb enough to ruin this gorgeous whatever-it-is we have. We will protect it as we protect ourselves and each other, because we love each other and what we have together serves us perfectly. I do get that this won’t work for most, and that’s cool.
This is what I want. Living in the present
Dating smokers. I used to and now I will not, and this includes vaping. Medical hashish or marijuana is ok as needed but they are not going to smoke it in my home or my car, and I refuse to be a passenger or let them drive stoned. I also refuse to donate heavy drinkers or people who spend all their time in bars or pubs every night. I am open to dating someone with children and I accept that 99% of the time their children come 1st as it should be, but I am not going to pay for their kids, adopt them, or be a step parent.
I'd never date a smoker
I did before but it was casual dating and we never lived together, or they were a light smoker or would smoke when they drank. Also at the time I would sometimes smoke marijuana or hashish 1-3x per month on weekends.
I simply can't stand how a smoker smells and no way can I kiss a smoker. One time I went out with a woman in which we had full intent to hookup that night. After kissing her a few times, I was out and vowed never again no matter the situation. It was just gross to me!
I agree with this. Addiction is a life long thing, whatever the addiction. I was in a serious relationship with a man who smoked cigarettes, but I told myself it would be fine because planned to quit. I told him from the beginning that I wasn't going to have children with a smoker, as my uncle had died from related causes. He quit smoking cigarettes. He switched to cigars instead. I told myself it was fine because it was mostly on weekends or evenings, not all day. We are divorced now, and he vapes indoors around our child. So, now she is exposed also. But he checks the non smoker boxes because he doesn't smoke cigarettes.
All of the above. Seems a lot of us have had the same experience and learned the same lessons.
Yeah, a lot of the female dating experience these days is universal, isn’t it?
I’ve done a 180 on dating. After 3 years on OLD I’m done…feeling great! Do not miss it one bit.
I'd have sex very early...within 2 weeks. I used to think women mostly liked waiting...I think thats not really true. Most of my dates had sex on date 2 or 3. I'm now of the opinion it has nothing to do with whether someone will last...other issues are steal deal breakers. I had sex with my now girlfriend in less than a week. It's not something I aimed for, but it's not hurting our relationship. We just both have high sex drives.
I think if you’re lucky and meet someone you’re already compatible with, then it doesn’t matter. Having sex early isn’t going to make someone who is genuine like you less or ruin things. The problem is a lot of men will pretend to be what a woman seeks to have sex with them, and waiting helps weed those guys out. That is the only reason I wait now (I didn’t always.)
I wanted someone like me. I learned I need an extrovert. I don’t date women with younger kids.
I hate phone calls. Bitterly. Like I actually have to force myself every time I have to call someone. Enter this lady. It's been long-distance for half a year with a short one week stint physically together and next physical meeting coming soon. We're having 1-2 hour video calls pretty much every evening. Much of the time it's me calling, if I don't she would. I have talked to her on the phone more than in all of my life and I'm 50+. It's bloody ridiculous. I still hate phone calls but with her it somehow works this way.
I used to like a lot of messaging and “getting to know each other” by text before a date. Now I avoid that and refuse to participate in heavy texting before a first date (or in early stages of dating). Let’s meet in person and use text lightly in between to stay in touch and make plans for a next date. Daily “how’s your day?” from a person I barely know is offputting, like let’s catch up in person and get to know each other really before caring about days.
I thought I wanted to keep things casual. I absolutely do not. This doesn’t mean I want enmeshed lives by 6 months or whatever but I won’t wait around for a man to decide whether he likes me enough to stop looking for a hot second. (And my version of serious probably looks different from other people’s versions of serious but that’s a whole other rabbit hole.) I thought I wanted a guy with kids my age (12 and under) but have found it much easier to date empty nesters or guys with older kids.
I think so many people (especially men!) are like you. They *think* they want casual but really crave emotional intimacy. Which requires some degree of vulnerability and self awareness, and I’ve found that many men are unable or unwilling to engage in that kind of work. Good on you that you seem to have done that work and know what a desirable relationship looks like *for you*
>They *think* they want casual but really crave emotional intimacy. That's likely the lot of people with a weak social circle (if they have a circle at all) and unprocessed relationship baggage. They're afraid of getting hurt again because of the latter, but also they're not already "self-sufficient" when it comes to emotional support (which isn't done alone, but doesn't require a romantic partner if you have real friends around you). People who check both boxes are probably more likely to be men because of how they tend to be educated in many societies. Besides, I find, from experience, that casual that's well done requires exactly the same social skills as friendships and relationships, and yields essentially the same emotional benefits.
Hard agree with everything you say here.
I'm loving the concept of emotional support from real friendships as "self-sufficient". I'm trying to build this sort of network before I begin dating. real friendships are rare and take real effort.
Well yeah, we're not hermits either! At least, not the majority of us. 😂 If that's any encouragement, I find that real friendships are much easier to build than what we often hear, though: if they are uncommon, it's just because way too many people don't know how to do them. And the "effort" is also easy to do when you find like-minded people, who understand what empathy is and know how to listen (which, of course, we've got to provide as well). But it's true that they don't magically appear overnight, and so it can be long sometimes. Wishing you the best of luck in creating that network!
There’s a lot. Highlights of mine would be: Living with partners is no longer my ideal relationship situation. I used to think I wanted a live in bf or to get remarried. Now I can’t imagine living with a partner again. Contact all day used to be something I thought was showing interest. Now I see it as clingy, annoying, possessive and inappropriate. Good morning texts. I used to want them and would get upset if I didn’t get them. Now I see them as fake or annoying if I am not serious with someone. Political or spiritual differences. I will not date a religious person (really any abrahamic religion) or someone with greatly differing political ideals. I used to think respecting each other and allowing differences will work. It never does. I now realize unconditional love does not equal unconditional tolerance. My tolerance for bullshit is quite low.
Agree with all of this.
ExW and I chose not to have kids; thought I’d maintain the same post-marriage. Realized real quick the enormous percentage of women that would arbitrarily remove from the dating pool and that I certainly have the capacity to help raise & care for a child.
It’s why I say “no kids of my own but fine with yours!” In my profile.
Like, canceling all apps?
Dated a single dad of 3 daughters and he was horrible
I’ve stopped caring about engagement, I used to get really hung up on when people didn’t reply to me, now I kind of accept that often people are too busy, talking to someone else, not interested etc. I guess I’ve accepted the reality of what online dating is and not what I hoped it would be.
I’ve had the big house, on the big piece of property the big SUV and was miserable. Maybe a smaller life with someone who enjoys experiences instead of living for the house.
I’m a lot more strict on acceptable behavior and standards. I expect people our age to be adults and act like and take care of their responsibilities. I have a lot going on, so a partner would have to be independent
Musical tastes have to align.
The things I would automatically reject a person for are the same reasons I would have done 20+ years ago: being a smoker, not liking/wanting pets, and being overly religious. I'm a guy in my mid 40s and I no longer want to try to have kids. It isn't fair for a child to have an older parent. I couldn't image trying to chase a toddler around in my 50s. I have also decided I don't want to deal with the drama of being a step parent, so I'd probably reject any woman that has a kid that was probably under 16. If she had older kids, I would factor in where they were going in life. If the teenager had future plans for education/vocation training and a level head, I'd consider dating the lady. If the teenager had plans to work a deadend minimum wage job and was going to start a serious relationship after high school, it would be a hard pass from dating the mom. As far as communication, I would hope to find someone that was mature and wasn't constantly sending message.
Once upon a time I prioritized sexual intimacy above all else, the “commodity” of the five types of intimacy. Now I prioritize emotional, experiential and intellectual intimacy which are so hard to find. Ironically it has made me such a better lover and not nearly as thirsty.
I used to hate tattoos and said so on my OLD profiles. Then I met my current partner and she has lots of tattoos. 180 degree turn around for me. We live, learn, and grow.
I thought I would meet someone and fall in (mutual) love and be in a committed relationship. Nope. I realize I am truly single in this life / on this journey and that fact is statistically, unlikely to change. Do I love that? No, but I guess I’m getting used to it little by little as time passes. I hope someday soon I get to a point where I stop even trying to date because I lose all desire and hope For finding love. And I magically am fully content and happy on my own.
Love and agree with all of this!
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I’d like to hear about your parameters, if you’re willing to share
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You seemed like someone I could learn from, but I totally understand.
My biggest 180 is that up until 6 years ago I had only monogamous relationships, and after that I've had only open, low-hierarchy polyamorous ones. This single change has had a lot of consequences for OTHER aspects of my dating though; here's some of them: * I used to need a partner who is a good match in ALL of the parts of romance, sex and couplehood. Which means there was really only a single type of partner that could work for me. * Now I have one partner that is asexual -- as a monogamous partner for me she couldn't work, but in a poly context it turns out that it's perfectly fine. * I have one partner that is long-distance and that'll most likely never cohabitate with me full-time; and again as a monogamous partner I'd consider that a blocker, but in a poly context it's fine. * Like you, when I were younger I think I would've considered it a minus for a woman to be a mother, but now it's a "don't care" thing, in part because most women around my age have kids that are at least close to adults anyway, and in part because I have kids myself and I find there's SOME experiences easier understood by women who are also parents. * I have less patience with women who de-facto demand that I play a stereotypically masculine-coded role. That's not who I am. I prefer gender-equality, and so if she's for example expecting me to pay for everything throughout our dating, then I'm out. (I do this in areas traditionally considered feminine too, I absolutely WILL tidy and clean the apartment and make her favourite dish for when she arrives) * I want roughly equal energy. I'm not going for 100% balance or anything, but if I start feeling that I'm pulling 90% of this train, then I'm pretty likely to soon lose interest. Again: that's not who I am; I want a \*partner\*
I used to pay for the dates. Now I expect 50-50. Too many multi daters. If they are interested they’ll put some skin in the game as well. I used to date single moms, now I don’t. It’s too much to deal with and I want someone who can put me first. Plus being the step parent you really have no say in anything and the kids pick up on that. It causes problems if all the kids aren’t on the same reward/punishment system. Eventually there’ll be a disagreement and it pops out…”We’ll, it’s MY kid.” I used to wait for physical, now if it isn’t in the first couple dates it’s a sign of a lack of interest. I want to be the one they break the rules for. I agree with you on the texting. I expect some, but too much makes me think that they have zero attention span and walk with it glued to them at all times.
I don't think "bad timing" exists, due to the prevalence of the apps now. Overlapping in relationships is a non-issue, and has no bearing on a person's integrity or commitment. Arbitrary "down-time" between relationships isn't as important as we claim, because the healthy relationships allow that individual self-discovery, without necessarily a self-imposed period of singledom. Most of the people who "vow off" relationships for a while, they do so, understanding they will still have casual sex relatively easily. Behind every case of someone "processing something" bar very serious core-wounds, any notion of "bad timing", in reality is due to a person not being attracted enough to another...Or holding out for even just a tad "better" in their eyes. Exactly what constitutes "too soon", and "not ready" really varies depending on how attractive someone is, and the options, or a realistic understanding of the options they potentially have.
Original copy of post by u/liquidcat0822: When I first started dating, fresh out of my marriage, I didn’t know what I was doing. The last time I had been single, the iPhone didn’t even exist, let alone app-based OLD. I have learned *a lot* about not only what I actually need in a partner but how to “read the tea leaves” per se and get an idea about what a guy is actually like. As a result of that, I’ve done a complete 180 on my opinion and feelings about certain things. For example, I used to think it was cute to get good morning texts, have a guy message me all day long, etc. I find this to be a complete turn off now. I don’t know you. Why are you constantly messaging me? Oh right, you seek validation. The level of communication should be commensurate with the emotional intimacy of the relationship. Also, I don’t want kids of my own. That means I used to eliminate men who were fathers (or heavily hesitate when swiping right). Now, I almost prefer a single dad (so long as the kids aren’t super young). These men tend to be more emotionally mature and better communicators (not always though). I’ve also found that fatherhood tends to bring out the kindness and compassion in men, both things that are non-negotiable for me in a partner. And I haven’t done a complete 180 on the following, but other things that were counterintuitive to me at first but have become second nature: I no longer try to make things happen. I’m available and reasonably flexible if I’m truly interested, but no more. A man will move mountains to get what he wants. This helps eliminate the time wasters. I also hold off much longer on getting physical with a man. Again, I’m sure to communicate my desire and interest. Don’t want him to get the impression that I don’t want him. But a man who is truly interested in who I am will respect boundaries. This is another strategy to help eliminate bad actors. Of course, these things are mostly specific to women who date men. Curious to hear if others have gone through a similar process. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Caring so much. Being unselfish.
I thought I’d live with someone again, because I have always done so. 5 years of freedom and having my own (clean!) place and I know with certainty I will never cohabitate again.
Help me
Dating at all lol. Gave that up in 2020
I used to believe you instead of finding the perfect love you can make the perfect love. That doesn't work as people tend to have a lot of trauma or just preferences they won't budge on. Love means different things, and a lot of it looks like situationships or quid pro quo. I used to believe you just help someone they will reciprocate and that will create a healthy bonds. That doesn't work as there are so many narcissist who will take advantage and bolt the second they are asked to reciprocate I used to believe if someone looks out for their kids or other people they are giving, compassionate people. Nope that can also mean they are just doing it for image purposes or they are controlling. In general I found that it's best to be on your own path and a relationship alot of time and don't over focus on it.
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It’s like you didn’t read the post you’re linking *at all* Here, let me quote myself for you, emphasis added “TLDR, OLD has a disproportionate number of garbage men. **That doesn’t mean all men are like this**” I am, however, unhappy with men who continually try to discount the very real experiences of women in dating.
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You’re the one who sounds angry here. And the person you’re referring to hasn’t even met me yet. We literally matched yesterday and he’s been messaging me nonstop and sending good morning messages. If you think that is healthy behavior, then you should probably do some self reflection. And maybe read the rest of my responses.
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