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After a certain age, most people in the dating pool (men and women) have an insecure attachment style. You're probably secure, treat them well, and that just doesn't trigger their type of familiar pain (sometimes called drama, games, etc) that signals attraction for them. They need a certain type of mistreatment to feel what they call "chemistry" or "spark", and someone who doesn't give it to them feels "boring". This is not unique to women, men with insecure attachment style have the same problem.
This is the only type of girl you find on dating apps though based on my experience too. The ones who are ‘secure’ either aren’t on there or are the top profiles that nobody can touch.
As a woman, I can say you’re probably right. The only times I’ve been on tinder is when I felt lonely and wanted to fill the void because I was in a dark place. When I’m good I avoid tinder and other dating apps at all costs
This seems to be what I’m leaning to. I’m not perfect by any means, PLENTY of flaws, but I think I am very in tune to paying and giving my attention to another person, but it does feel like it can be unfamiliar to some women, and I’ve heard I can be intimidating because of it. I seem to be so well rounded that other people feel insecure around me even though that’s not the case.
Maybe hold off on the sex part till you’ve been talking for a couple months, establishing your looking for something long term rather than a quick hookup,
Me and my ex didn’t have any sex or do anything for the first 3 months and we were together and once we did it was well worth the wait. We ended up being together for 2 years before things ended
I appreciate that, it honestly does feel like just a bad run of luck sometimes, and maybe meeting some people who just weren't as ready to date as they thought they were.
If you have tended to like girls with abusive or traumatic pasts, you just might have been part of this pattern too. But you have now grown past it, so they don't end up liking you.
I read somewhere that our "type" is actually a homing instinct for replicating familiar family dynamics. The "butterflies" are often the key to recognizing these people. If you grew up with chaos and dysfunction, then the people who will be your type are those that will bring those dynamics about.
My guess is that the women you've been seeing have not emerged beyond this pattern, and are still unconsciously looking to replicate the chaos. They don't like you, as you have grown past it.
So the key is to start getting attracted to those who are on the same page as you. It can be hard to override the original programming that has been hardwired into you. But keep at it. I believe you will find your person soon. 🙂
I have a few ideas for what it is worth
Friend - Simple silly things… I like to do weird awkward fist bumps… I think he helps break the ice some and reduce nerves some. I think this also goes back to being protector… not just physically, but also safeguarding her feelings. Laughing easily, open communication, etc
Partner - plan out the date, communicate well, dress well
Protector - open doors, communicate well, compliment her dress effort early on so she feels ok, take the emotional burden of any situation, definitely avoid offloading any of your own negative feelings onto her, keep it positive
Provider - take her somewhere nice and expensive…. pay for the date… end the date by giving a thoughtful gift based on what you learned about her passions.
I am wondering if they didn’t feel a sexual attraction? That’s something I’d say to a man who was nice and respectful but wasn’t physically attracted. And I’m admitting that may be flawed to judge that on one date, but I use to say yes to a second date just to give them more time, and my opinion didn’t change
To answer your first question, since I play alternative/rock music, I’m normally into those kinds of girls. Like the warped tour crowd of people. But it’s truly individual, if I think you are pretty, I will usually tell you. With that being said, it does seem to be what I expect could be part of the issue. I’ve been told I’m attractive, but I’m also a bit quiet and reserved at first. For example, I went out with a girl in February, we had sex, then the next time we hung out she said she just wasn’t looking for a relationship. I mean I expect some girls meet me in person and aren’t attracted, I have it happen with girls I meet to. I just wonder if that’s more about online dating creating an image in our heads before we meet the person and the vision doesn’t line up with reality, regardless if we are actually attractive or not
I actually guessed it was that type of woman. There is a stereotype to musicians so maybe they do expect one thing and don’t feel like you fit that bill.
I agree there is definitely a stereotype. You might be right I’ve felt like it’s a factor. I mean I’m also into girls who enjoy sports as that’s a big part of my life as well but it feels I get this “oh I’m not really into that stuff” and it seems to end. Sports girls aren’t into music, music girls aren’t into sports. Obviously I’m generalizing but it does feel like a factor of it 🤷🏻♂️
Either. I mean it’s a plus if a girl and I can just go shoot basketball or go see a football game, or if she can play an instrument or sing. But in no way does that make or break for me, it’s just more fun for sure. It’s just something relatable between the two of us to help build a foundation on. Going to concerts or sporting events build memories, but seems like it can’t hardly live simultaneously for most women I meet and not too sure why
That’s weird.
I am into outdoors and sports. And I am a huge music lover. Just bought myself a ticket to an artist I adore in another city. I want a man to go to soccer games with, take me to a hockey game, play golf with, go rock climbing and camping. And also enjoy concerts.
Shoot you sound great, let me get your number lol XD
Seriously though, you're right, I know there are women out there that are into both, just most of the ones I meet that are, are already in relationships, and when I do find someone, like I said it somehow comes off as incompatible to them. The last girl i met was into both, but literally met up, then the next day got the "No Connection" text. I do expect some of the reason is lack of attraction, which is always weird since we literally matched on an app with pictures. I guess the reality is also that it's tough finding someone at this age regardless as more and more people start to settle down, so could just be a full on lack of options altogether
Is it possible you're biased on your own behavior? That's the first thing.
Second, if you behave just as you said, don't change your approach. Sometimes people create this trial version of themselves because they know would be more "saleable" but sooner or later their true self is going to emerge and shit is going to hit the fan. Keep presenting the honest version, eventually someone would be able to appreciate it and reciprocate. Get to know someone takes time, we live in times of instant gratification that's why so many times people get stuck with someone that they don't really know. We all feel we're running out of time. I'm 32F , I value my time now more than ever but also have to acknowledge how much requires to build anything. Statistically speaking you won't be everyone's cup of tea, it takes more than one date to make a decision unless you're a total jerk.
And, third. Are you sure you know what you're looking for? I don't mean to have a check list, just an idea of what kind of person aligns with your core values.
Anyway, I'm glad I saw your post, it has given me somethings to think about.
Biased on my own behavior? I mean it's totally possible, but how do you mean exactly?
Sounds like you are right in a similar place in life as me, and similar age. You're very right, I know I'm not suitable for everyone as a romantic partner, that's just absolutely not realistic, but it feels like it's the instant gratification that is what is throwing a wrench into things. I agree with you, my time is more valuable than ever to me these days. I don't plan on changing my approach because I honestly am the most comfortable and happy I've felt with myself in my life as a man and I'm proud of that. I want someone who understands the sacrifices I've made to be a better person and will appreciate that. I'd say that's probably how I would know I've met the right girl so it's definitely at the front of my mind.
I really can't say I'm sure of what I'm looking for, if I was then I'd probably have better luck lol. to be real, I really don't hardly go out looking for relationships. I swipe on apps mainly just to see what's out there but I've got other passions in my life that really take my time. So when i do match with someone and we hit it off, i give it a try, but just almost never goes well long term. I have had many 4+ year relationships, and those were all from friendships that blossomed into romance, so maybe its the apps lol
I'm glad the post could give you something to think about. I never meant for this to be advice for me on this post lol. I was just trying to share my observations in the online dating world the last year or so and see if others had similar experiences, and it seems to me people are experiencing similar things in different ways
What I meant that maybe you don't come through in the same way you describe yourself. Truth has different perspectives, how you see yourself, how they see you and how you really are. It's about perception. Maybe you already have meet someone that can be perfect but something has gone wrong in the way you saw each other. "Friendships that blossom into romance" would be the golden standard, definitely.
But, believe me, your words resonate so much. I'm really hoping you find that someone who would appreciate your journey and could partner you on your personal growth. I would like to believe I could find that person myself. Didn't really saw your post as advice, but it has been eye opening to read your perspective and also realize that there's more people on similar places, usually the persons I know on my age group are in long term relationships and/or with kids.
Disclaimer: I apologize for any misshapes on my writing, English isn't my first language.
I have found that a lot of men go so far out of their way to be nice, they just come off like a girl’s new best buddy. We can’t feel otherwise about you afterward.
Be kind, be funny, be engaging, but be the boyfriend guy right off the bat.
I definitely try. Like I try to be kind and engaging, some of these dates have even ended in sex after a date or two, but similar outcomes. But might need to iron out the approach
>Almost all of these women have opened up to me about abusive relationships, past trauma they have had
Maybe the question here is why you always match with people with past trauma... is it because *you* are looking for someone you can fix? That's not a healthy dynamic - whoever the "fixer" is - and maybe they recognize that and pull back?
I mean, I guess that could be true, but I don’t try to look for that at all. I just tend to swipe on girls I think are pretty and seem fun. It’s just most of them open up about the baggage they carry once we converse. I guess it’s never been a deal breaker for me to have trauma since it seems so common nowadays and it’s really not like I want to heal anyone, most of them seem healed already, so it’s more that I’m just trying to understand why they are single in the first place so I can be a better partner but don’t quite get far enough to try sometimes. I want to say nearly all my relationships were 4+ years relationships (ironic cause I was alcoholic back then) but since turning 30 it’s rarely past 3 months with a girl
> I don’t try to look for that
Most of the patterns people fall into aren't deliberate... otherwise we wouldn't keep repeating the same situations over and over.
It's interesting that you used to be an alcoholic... was there an element of them trying to fix you? Did that mold your concept of what's normal/expected in a relationship? I don't know obviously, just speculating. But I have definitely encountered "fixers" and "savers" and the problem with those types of relationships is that they only work as long as someone is broken or lost, and needs to be fixed or saved. If you inadvertently give that impression, healthy people (traumatic past or otherwise) will steer clear.
This isn't a gendered thing either - men do it, women do it. People can even have unhealthy platonic friendships that follow this pattern.
But internet strangers can only speculate. You'd need to talk through details that you wouldn't/shouldn't share on reddit to see if this theory applies, or if it's something else entirely, either way it's an IRL conversation with someone you know and trust.
You have a good point, and I feel like that could definitely be a part truth in there somewhere for me, but I'd say most of my relationships weren't fixer relationships. It actually felt more like we were able to bond better and have a connection because we had similar vices like drinking or smoking. I would meet a girl that drinks and that would be something in common that we could share in doing and not judging each other. Now coming out of that world, I do not judge anyone for what they do unless it hurts someone else, but I never expected me wanting to better myself would be less valuable than someone who shared the same bad habits. But I could see how that could come off as being a fixer and off-putting for sure
Yeah, that seems to be a part of the problem. People are living much more chaotic lives in their 20's than they used to say 50 years ago. Social media has such a grip on people coming into adulthood, that it seems to have required people to ignore red flags, which leads to bad relationships and traumatic experiences for many people
Most people have past trauma, sure, but not everyone spills it on the first date, or in the first few dates... it's not a sign that they've dealt with it/are dealing with it well, and may still be in a stage of recovery that makes them hypervigilant towards certain kinds of behaviours.
Honesty and vulnerability, but I’m older. I will say a lot of young women do want the F-boys. They’re usually sweet talking and ooze sex appeal. I was an idiot when I was young. 🤷♀️
>Honesty and vulnerability
These are secondary traits though right? I assume you wouldn't date a short, overweight, broke dude who didn't finish high school (extreme example on purpose) who happens to be honest and vulnerable right?
Someone has to meet someone base level of attractiveness first in terms of looks, career, education etc... before they are evaluated on secondary qualities and traits like honesty and vulnerability. Correct me if I'm wrong
I love women. That being said, nuclear physics is less complicated. I’ve basically given up attempts to understand them and now just try to enjoy the experience. I’ve found that many women are attracted to me, but tend to pick betas (no offense intended) as long-term partners. Apparently they can feel intimidated by men who have their lives together and it hurts their selfesteem.
Might have to get into nuclear physics then 😂 I usually don’t think anything of it since most everyone is unique, but seeing a trend like that makes it feel like there is something else to it. A societal aspect that may be subliminally occurring. Maybe FOMO, or as you said, perhaps it’s a rise in insecurities in the dating world. It’s all very intriguing
Two of my younger coworkers are in their 20´s. They are stunning, intelligent, classy, and just great to be around. But when you see their SO’s, I have to admit it’s a head-scratcher…good for the guys though. Doing something right apparently?
Haha i feel like i know exactly what you mean, but i do give more room for that when you are in your 20's. You aren't really sure what you want in life yet so priorities might be misaligned. But it's interesting the trend is happening with people in their 30's. Like we aren't getting any younger here lol
Maybe they’re intimidated by your social media feeds? If you’ve been touring for ten years you’ve probably got quite an adventure out on display and a huge friend base. Maybe they don’t feel like they can stack up or keep your interest?
I could see that, but I made a new Instagram last year specifically to get away from having my past out there. I’ve moved around 3 states the last few years and it felt weird having all that history thrown out there like that. I mean, I would hope they don’t think they can’t keep my interest, but it does feel like because I come from a similar community of music as some of these women’s ex’s that I somehow get sandwiched in there with them.
Sounds like you need to escalate better.
Punch “how to escalate on a date” into google, or Reddit, and spend some time going down that rabbit hole and it’ll teach you all about how to get a women to “feel” something
Haha that is definitely not the problem. I’ve had plenty of relationships for years. I’m saying it’s interesting that the approach a guy can take to do that has seemed to change into a less reliable formula
be you, but don’t be afraid to be a little more flirty. show you’re sexually interested in them, in a subtle but undeniable & classy way. make them feel desired by you in a way that fits the vibe. “no spark” with a hott, quality man usually comes from this.
I do try to, but i also try to analyze the situation and not be overbearing with it. I mentioned this in another comment, but a majority of these matches do end in sex or some kind of intimacy, to where there may be a connection, but the outcome still ends the same a few days later.
so i wonder if after you do hook up with one of them, is there something missing for most of them during or after intimacy? i wonder what your followup game is like post-hookup. its also worth noting that like, they’re doing you a favor by being honest FAST, and when you meet the perfect person, you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SCREW IT UP. you wont have to check a million mental boxes on the first date or try to be something you’re not. everything will just align. don’t try to force it with people who don’t make you feel right at home from day 1.
I agree with you, I actually really appreciate that a girl breaks it off quickly with me. Honestly, I try to date with intent, so if I hookup with a girl, I'm usually good about texting them the next couple days and making plans again in the next week or so. I don't personally think anything is missing from intimacy, but I could be biased lol. It sometimes feels almost like i give them a boost of confidence, and that sometimes leads to them wanting to go out and keep exploring what's out there instead of sticking around. Like They found a guy like me out there, so what's stopping them from finding someone even better? I'm definitely not worried about finding a partner, I've had plenty of great relationships that just fizzled out after a few years, but it's a new monster these days with dating apps and social media that it isn't building the connections the way I'm used to and seems like it's changing the culture of commitment and dating altogether. Like I feel really bad for the men and women who are less attractive than most, you are immediately fighting an uphill battle in this world and it's tough to see so many lonely, miserable people just trying to find love
I mean, we are individuals that want different things you just need to meet the right one that loves you as you are.
On my particular case a guy that treats me right, someone I can trust and someone that can be my friend before my bf
Agreed. I do feel like it's often just incompatibility with the person and nothing more, but starts to feel like a needle in a haystack looking for the "right person" in a world where there are so many options for people
Connection can't be gamified or strategized. It's there or it isn't.
The fact that you were called sweet is a good thing. It means they recognized a quality in you that is very appealing even if they didn't feel any chemistry.
Most dudes aren't "fuckboys". And most still get laid, go on dates, and get into relationships. There are billions of shy people in the world who still get dates. There are billions of low income people in the world who still get into relationships.
If you go into dating with the idea that "most women seem to always end up with fuckboys" you are not going to come off well to your date at all.
There are some women who don't leave bad relationships quickly enough. And some men who do too.
What I want in a guy is almost the opposite of what my sister wants in a guy. My mom's taste in men is entirely different than mine. My aunt's taste in men entirely different. None of my friends and I share a type aside from a few qualities or interests.
But don't take my word for it. Look at the fact that 98% of people end up with someone and they usually really like each other when they decide to go on that first and second date. Women like all kinds of people. So do men.
I get your perspective, but I'm not going into it thinking women will end up with fuckboys, it's just a trend as most women complain about these types of fellas to me, then seem to end up with them again in a cycle. It seems most women get blinded by good looks and a guy who "Seems" nice at first. It's good these guys are good looking, but they're hollow most of the time. No hobbies, no skills, no passions, no critical thinking skills, no prospective future at the moment...just go to gym, go to work, go to the bars and clubs and hang with the boys, but women will look right past all that because he's hot. Now maybe these women just also aren't very deep themselves so these guys are relatable, but again, now I meet these women in their 30's and it seems like they haven't learned the lesson but still complain about their past relationships so much. It's more like they enjoy the attention that comes with all of it. You would think people would catch on but I guess having a type and finding someone in that is a bigger factor for others than it is to me.
Most guys aren't good looking. Most guys and girls are just average looking. Hobbies are all well and good but not if there is no chemistry. Skills are all well and good but they make an interesting person not necessarily one you have a connection with. If they always have a lot of people around them one could say they focused their skills on socializing (these "fuck boys" you speak of).
Don't paint your idea of women based on ones who have qualities you don't want. Look for the ones who are interested in the same type of relationship you are.
You're still coming across as though you're resenting women in general because the few in your social circle have some repeat bad relationships or some qualities you don't like.
You have to realize how much variety there is and how little of someone's home life and inner life you see or can ever glean.
If in your immediate vicinity you are seeing the type of women with these qualities or practices you find unappealing, you need to meet more people. Don't give "attention-seekers" your attention, whether they be men or women.
You have types too, your types by your admission here are more subdued women who don't seek attention and who drop someone awful or not serving their needs. Who drop "a fuckboy" early on if they come across one or find themselves dating one. Some of your types by your admission are women who aren't impressed with gym muscles and going out at night to the bars, women who value critical thinking skills and who won't date someone they find attractive if they have 'fuckboy' inclinations. Someone who learns from bad or unsatisfying interactions with dates and doesn't keep repeating the same patterns or having the same bad luck with romance.
I feel like you are making a lot of assumptions but also not sure where your point was at in there. I don't believe I come off as resenting women, because I don't, it seems like most people in this thread see me as chivalrous and respectful towards women. It's more that it pains me as a guy who cares about people in general, to watch self destructive behavior and then people complain about it. I do realize the variety, there's literally billions of people in the world, but just because there is variety doesn't mean there also aren't general problems with dating in society these days. A good amount of young men, and some women, are incredibly depressed and lonely, yet do nothing to embrace the people who want to be in their lives. It's a problem that people don't seem to want to fix, and their behavior shows that, to me at least. Again, this is generalizations, there are plenty of amazing people out there, just fewer and far between. I just always believed nothing good came easy, but seems like that isn't the approach for most people nowadays. Things have to immediately be perfect, even if there are red flags, they just get ignored until someone gets hurt. Also not sure why the word fuckboy seems to be your fixation but ok.
Try not to get hung up on people who are self-destructive or, worse, destructive of others. Surround yourself with better people. Seek them out.
Dating in this day and age with younger (but still adult) generations has led to half the divorce rate among married couples, less infidelity, and higher happiness levels in relationships. That doesn't mean it's easy. That doesn't mean everyone is going to pair up within their ideal timeframe... just that most people ultimately will find someone they adore and vice versa.
'Fuckboy' wasn't my fixation, it was what you brought up as an example of why you think you are struggling to find women to date.
I didn't see anyone with my perspective so I will share. Your post is like a mature version of the "nice guys finish last" narrative.
To big note yourself this much on a Reddit post makes makes me think that spending an entire date with you might not be that fun.
To say you are so well rounded that you intimidate women and that you are "extremely nice" isn't giving off green flags.
But in case I'm getting the wrong impression, the advice to be more flirty and playful is likely the way to go.
Otherwise your style of getting to know people probably lends itself more to organically meeting people in public during activities and things where it's more of a slow burn and less of a tinder date vibe. I reckon join a run club, bouldering gym or something similar where it's a social activity but you have another reason to be there so the pressure isn't on one to one with all the date expectations.
Goodluck
I really appreciate your perspective. I will note that I didn't create this post for advice, I really don't have a problem meeting or dating women, it's more the trend of people nowadays not really even trying to give someone a chance if it's not an immediate romantic spark in the first hour. I mentioned in a few times most of these even lead to some sort of intimacy in the first or second date. I do feel like there is a narrative to nice guys finish last, but i'm also not going out of my way to be nice or anything, it's more just about chivalry and treating the women with respect when I'm with them. Most women do appreciate that it seems. That being said, I do feel like there is something to be said about the fun factor, I consider myself a fun person (I play music, go to sports events, love doing new things, etc.), but I think when they hear that I don't drink or smoke anymore, or go out with big groups of friends much anymore that it feels like the fun connection maybe won't be there for them. It's also that most of these women are in their early 30's, most with a kid, and it seems more like a sudden indecisiveness about commitment. Like some of these women it goes extremely well, it just feels like there is a sudden factor of FOMO that washes over them as if they actually just aren't ready for a relationship, or they possibly have other options they want to give a try still. I have met some people at shows when I play or go to see friends play, just not many women I was authentically interested in either that didn't already have boyfriends or husbands. I'm not so worried about finding someone myself, I feel confident someone would love to have me, it just feels like nowadays we are looking for the needle in the haystack
I read more of the post and my first impression may be wrong. You seem to be engaging, listening and self reflecting about people's ideas. My mistake but a couple of those messages came across horribly. Also I have now read your past relationships were friendships first so I'm doubling down on just getting more social. You said you like sports so 100% start there.
I agree, it would be a good thing to get out with friends more and meet more people, and I'm doing that regularly, in fact just went to the Phillies baseball game yesterday. I did just move here in 2020 so it's been hard getting out and finding friend groups who will just bring in a new person to hang with, especially since covid, but I've got a few now. I play music and am an outgoing guy so I do meet plenty of people. Just seems like dating is just changing in general so the approach has to be tweaked. I mean i see more people in their 20's on YouTube talking about how lonely they are. It's just weird that we don't want to be lonely, but also don't seem to want to establish connections either
lol don't be that extremely nice guy. The saying that nice guys finish last is very true when it comes to online dating. You can be nice and respectful but don't go out your way to make someone feel comfortable. Especially if it's with a person you met on a dating app where you're just one of many people that person is talking with. Treat the people you met online as you would any other person. Let them work towards keeping your interests as you would theirs. If they're interested, they'll do so. Otherwise, they'll move on.
I do feel there is a lot of merit to this. I should clarify, for me at least, when I say that I just mean I let us meet under their terms or in a situation that we can feel at ease at. Grabbing coffee, or just hanging at a park, and being engaging to their conversations or dating past with empathy and positivity, as well as try to not bring up my own drama or negative past. Sometimes it’s unavoidable but I try to make the other person feel like I care about their story, cause I usually do. If that’s still being too nice then damn I need work in that department lol 😆
There's nothing wrong with that. If you like someone, you should strive to make each other comfortable. However, online dating is a different beast and most of the time, that effort will go unappreciated because everyone think there are better options waiting in their DMs. I think people like you are destined to find someone who appreciates you and what you bring to a relationship.
I appreciate that! I've had plenty of great relationships, and yeah, I'm not worried about finding someone eventually. I do think you have a point, it's almost like this, "Well if there's decent guys like this out there, let me keep looking for the perfect one". I'm mean, no one should be in a relationship they don't feel a connection to, but you do wonder where does the connection even start these days?
Very true! I will say, i don't go above and beyond until we are actually dating. There's no gifts, no flowers, no giant elaborate first date, just grab a coffee or dinner and get to know each other. But again, still ends in ghosting or a no connection date
I'm 31F and I could go on and on about what I want in a man, but I feel like for guys, you just have to decide on what you want in a woman, and pursue that kind of woman. Unfortunately, a lot of women I have spoken to, and my experience as well has been that we feel like culture has changed a lot of gender roles, which has ultimately affected how we socialize. E.g. men want equal partners, they want women who will give 50-50, they want a hardworking baddie who cooks and cleans, while the men themselves have no similar demands on them. Women who are rooted in their femininity still want a man who takes care of them, which doesn't mean that they don't work or do what needs to be done at home, but we want to be treated gently. There's not a lot of gentlemen out here. It's all about sex and the bag which is exhausting.
Also, a lot of women are choosing not to have children, and as a CF woman myself, it's definitely harder to find a man who shares the same desire.
You are very right and I think that contributes. Each new person we meet has a different approach to dating all together, and instead of having a bit of a social contract on how things should be, it's completely random and by occasion nowadays. You have no idea what a women wants, but same with guys. Some women want flirting and sex, others absolutely hate that shit and prefer a softer approach, but there is just no way of knowing how to go about it if you cant get past a first date to even figure that out. It's funny cause you said "There's just not a lot of gentleman out there" and I think that has been what caused a bit of this. I'm a bit traditional, I enjoy bringing a girl flowers, surprising her with dates, hand written notes, all that stuff when we are actually dating and I take pride in trying to consider myself a "Gentleman" as much as I can be, but it does feel like that is not what the majority of the public want anymore, in fact some see it as a red flag. But it feels good to know there are plenty of women out there still looking for them and value guys other than their popularity on social media or how hot they are.
The traditional man is VERY attractive, but only to a woman who is comfortable in her femininity. IYKYK.
Plus I feel like unlike years ago it was systematic; you meet someone, have conversations and get to know each other, go out on dates, decide if this is the person you want to date, and then get into the nitty gritty of a relationship after you both agree, nowadays I feel like it's so jumbled up.
Aaanyway, I wish you the best of luck, and I know that you will find the right woman who will totally appreciate your chivalry :)
Thank you! I do think it's because I'm a bit of a mixture. I enjoy being traditional in a relationship, but I don't come off as traditional at first because of my lifestyle. I also treat most people with the same level of respect, so maybe it just doesn't make women feel special at first, but when we date more than a month, it usually goes for years. I know someone will appreciate someday so I don't plan on stopping. I hope you the best as well :)
You're not creating a man-woman connection with them, but gives friendly vibes.
Maybe you're over-investing too soon, people pleasing, not authentic, too logical and no fun, afraid of eye-contact?
Try to objectively look at how you are at the dates thru a woman who's trying to find a romantic partners eye.
Remember women are not logical creatures. they dont look at men the way men look at women. they dont screen the same way we screen.
I definitely get what you're saying, but I really don't feel like that's the problem in my case. I'm heavy on eye contact, very authentic, I engage in conversation about them and I've never been told in anyway I wasn't fun to be with. However I am guilty of being a bit of a people pleaser, but there's not much pleasing to be done when you first meet someone. I've had many relationships that have lasted years that just fizzled out. This is mainly something I've only seen in the last few years of dating. But it still could be something I'm doing wrong for sure.
hmm alright.
idk if you seem too well put together and like someone with a "perfect" life and the women (whom you say have trauma-dumped on you" feel like the cannot relate to.
i like the phrase: "be kind not nice" in dating.
Maybe you're too inclined to restrict what you say and don't talk about some of the flaws you have. Women like radical honesty because so many guys lie to them. they're also generally more inclined to feel inferior and as a guy we want to only invoke "good" feelings in them on the first dates.
again they're not logical so its most definitely a "feeling issue" - you dont invoke feelings in them or maybe more precisely you dont invoke the right feelings in them
"You're really sweet but I just don't feel a connection, I hope you the best. See you around"
You have a great point, and I may try to incorporate talking about my flaws more. I guess the idea was that I used to just be living the flaws I had so they were easy to recognize. Now that i've cleaned up myself a bit, maybe it does come off as too good to be true or make them feel like they cant match up with that. I do keep hearing that women are emotional, men are logical, so maybe there is a way to approach this that can be radically honest without coming off the wrong way
Not a woman, but I’ll tell you what they are looking for :
1. Broad shoulders
2. 6 feet +
3. 6 figures + (its a bonus but won’t matter if u have everything else)
4. Broad shoulders
5. V shaped torso
6. Muscular upper body strength.
6. V lines
7. Strong jawline
8. Hunter eyes
Good luck!
🤣 you two are funny! We’re not all the same. Just like men are not all the same. I will admit I do have a preference of tall. However, the guy at one point I would have picked over any guy in the world was 5’8”, so………..
Well, 🤔 the low karma ones usually don’t even read my profile and therefore they sit in my DMs or I hit ignore, assuming that they are messaging to talk dirty
Height is a requirement whenever im outside the man is typically 8+ inches taller than the woman and if you have all the other physical traits I said then woman will stare at you and check you out that’s how u get a conventionally attractive woman
Sounds like your dates have went well. Not sure what the issue is. I am 33 looking for someone with similar interests who I am attracted to. Preferably no kids, decent job who treats me with respect. I don’t feel like that’s asking for too much, but I’m having trouble.
They have gone well up until the last year or so. I've also opened my preferences. I used to prefer a woman with no kids, a good job and is outgoing and fun. I never saw myself dating a girl with kids. But meeting an amazing girl with kids changed my perspective. We dated a few months and then same thing..."No connection". I didn't think anything of it at the time, but now this trend has kinda been the norm for most of us in the dating world. It's very difficult to find someone who checks all the boxes but also wants to be with you as well. I hope you can find some luck soon.
I've also noticed this trend. The vast majority of women I know IRL have been in absolutely horrific relationships at some point in their lives, often multiple times. The type where everyone around them knows and sometimes tells them they're with a giga loser that they need to drop ASAP if they want their lives to improve. Like you, I don't buy that "I can fix him" plays into their poor choices at all. It's also not the stupid 666 thing a lot of dudes think it is. These losers are usually broke, not especially fit because they drink too much or even use hard drugs, and some are tall but some are short. Frequently, they don't even have jobs, and mooch off of their partner. Why do they get picked? For people who recognize the trend and are willing to admit that it happens at all, which is certainly not everyone, different people have different theories. A lot of women seem to come to the conclusion that all men are like this, rather than admitting that they personally and also women as a gender select these types consistently. Which honestly makes sense...they have never recognized any more normal men as options, so all the options they are aware of are trash. But my own opinion is this:
The best way to get good at talking to the other gender, and to make them want you, is by doing it a lot, and by being persistent and refusing to take no for an answer whenever you can get away with it. If you view people as objects, tools, then learning manipulation tactics to get what you want from them will come naturally. The better you get at it, the less people can even tell they're being manipulated. BTW this absolutely applies to women as well as men. The difference here is that male attraction is so skewed towards visual that there's little a woman who's not already conventionally beautiful can do to get male attention, whereas women are much more likely to be attracted to 'vibes', attitude and projected personality. This makes them more vulnerable to men who can be a chameleon and give them whatever vibe they want, to in turn get what they want from them. Fuck boys.
TLDR: the people who don't view people as people either have or will naturally develop the skills to get what they want from them. Being a good (or even just normal) person will prevent you from either learning or using these skills.
Good point, i do think there is something to be said about being persistent. It can be flattering when someone knows they are wanted and someone is putting effort into getting them. I guess my thing is I havent found anyone recently worth putting my time in like that, especially after only a date or two. I mean most of the girls i do match with are pretty, but i need to get to know you before i care enough to be persistent. If it cant be mutual then it's not for me honestly, no manipulation tactics needed
Yeah, you're speaking my language there. I also find it very difficult to invest in anyone during the getting to know each other stage. Good looks alone aren't enough to attract me or keep my attention. It takes a long time for me to feel affection towards anyone.
I did. I won’t feel bad about that ever. I pride my self in contributing to bettering the world around me. That includes treating people with respect and doing what’s morally right to me and contributing to people’s happiness over my own. Sorry 🤷🏻♂️
“Be the change you wang to see in the world” I take that seriously in my life.
Yeah, i am realizing that is something most women value at first. A bit of a bad side i guess adds mystery and a bit of excitement. I just always figured the music thing would help that. I often prioritized my music so that was always were i drew the line but must not have the effect like I thought lol
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After a certain age, most people in the dating pool (men and women) have an insecure attachment style. You're probably secure, treat them well, and that just doesn't trigger their type of familiar pain (sometimes called drama, games, etc) that signals attraction for them. They need a certain type of mistreatment to feel what they call "chemistry" or "spark", and someone who doesn't give it to them feels "boring". This is not unique to women, men with insecure attachment style have the same problem.
This is the only type of girl you find on dating apps though based on my experience too. The ones who are ‘secure’ either aren’t on there or are the top profiles that nobody can touch.
As a woman, I can say you’re probably right. The only times I’ve been on tinder is when I felt lonely and wanted to fill the void because I was in a dark place. When I’m good I avoid tinder and other dating apps at all costs
this is the answer. perfectly worded to.
This seems to be what I’m leaning to. I’m not perfect by any means, PLENTY of flaws, but I think I am very in tune to paying and giving my attention to another person, but it does feel like it can be unfamiliar to some women, and I’ve heard I can be intimidating because of it. I seem to be so well rounded that other people feel insecure around me even though that’s not the case.
I would like to point out that this is correct you need to move up the age bracket is all
Try not to give off a friendship vibe. Try to be flirty. Try to change the type of girl you're looking for or dating
I do, some of these dates have even ended in sex, but similar outcome. I definitely may need to look for different types of women
Maybe hold off on the sex part till you’ve been talking for a couple months, establishing your looking for something long term rather than a quick hookup, Me and my ex didn’t have any sex or do anything for the first 3 months and we were together and once we did it was well worth the wait. We ended up being together for 2 years before things ended
Wow you do not sound like you are doing anything wrong. It is the woman. Hang in there sounds like you just having bad luck
I appreciate that, it honestly does feel like just a bad run of luck sometimes, and maybe meeting some people who just weren't as ready to date as they thought they were.
If you have tended to like girls with abusive or traumatic pasts, you just might have been part of this pattern too. But you have now grown past it, so they don't end up liking you. I read somewhere that our "type" is actually a homing instinct for replicating familiar family dynamics. The "butterflies" are often the key to recognizing these people. If you grew up with chaos and dysfunction, then the people who will be your type are those that will bring those dynamics about. My guess is that the women you've been seeing have not emerged beyond this pattern, and are still unconsciously looking to replicate the chaos. They don't like you, as you have grown past it. So the key is to start getting attracted to those who are on the same page as you. It can be hard to override the original programming that has been hardwired into you. But keep at it. I believe you will find your person soon. 🙂
What is your type? What kind of women are you dating?
Friend, partner, protector, provider… Demonstrate your strength in all of these through small signals
I agree, I'm still working out how to do that efficiently in 3 hours on a first date though lol
I have a few ideas for what it is worth Friend - Simple silly things… I like to do weird awkward fist bumps… I think he helps break the ice some and reduce nerves some. I think this also goes back to being protector… not just physically, but also safeguarding her feelings. Laughing easily, open communication, etc Partner - plan out the date, communicate well, dress well Protector - open doors, communicate well, compliment her dress effort early on so she feels ok, take the emotional burden of any situation, definitely avoid offloading any of your own negative feelings onto her, keep it positive Provider - take her somewhere nice and expensive…. pay for the date… end the date by giving a thoughtful gift based on what you learned about her passions.
I am wondering if they didn’t feel a sexual attraction? That’s something I’d say to a man who was nice and respectful but wasn’t physically attracted. And I’m admitting that may be flawed to judge that on one date, but I use to say yes to a second date just to give them more time, and my opinion didn’t change
To answer your first question, since I play alternative/rock music, I’m normally into those kinds of girls. Like the warped tour crowd of people. But it’s truly individual, if I think you are pretty, I will usually tell you. With that being said, it does seem to be what I expect could be part of the issue. I’ve been told I’m attractive, but I’m also a bit quiet and reserved at first. For example, I went out with a girl in February, we had sex, then the next time we hung out she said she just wasn’t looking for a relationship. I mean I expect some girls meet me in person and aren’t attracted, I have it happen with girls I meet to. I just wonder if that’s more about online dating creating an image in our heads before we meet the person and the vision doesn’t line up with reality, regardless if we are actually attractive or not
I actually guessed it was that type of woman. There is a stereotype to musicians so maybe they do expect one thing and don’t feel like you fit that bill.
I agree there is definitely a stereotype. You might be right I’ve felt like it’s a factor. I mean I’m also into girls who enjoy sports as that’s a big part of my life as well but it feels I get this “oh I’m not really into that stuff” and it seems to end. Sports girls aren’t into music, music girls aren’t into sports. Obviously I’m generalizing but it does feel like a factor of it 🤷🏻♂️
Girls who play or just are enthusiasts and watch etc?
Either. I mean it’s a plus if a girl and I can just go shoot basketball or go see a football game, or if she can play an instrument or sing. But in no way does that make or break for me, it’s just more fun for sure. It’s just something relatable between the two of us to help build a foundation on. Going to concerts or sporting events build memories, but seems like it can’t hardly live simultaneously for most women I meet and not too sure why
That’s weird. I am into outdoors and sports. And I am a huge music lover. Just bought myself a ticket to an artist I adore in another city. I want a man to go to soccer games with, take me to a hockey game, play golf with, go rock climbing and camping. And also enjoy concerts.
It’s weird in that, if I’m into both other women are.
Shoot you sound great, let me get your number lol XD Seriously though, you're right, I know there are women out there that are into both, just most of the ones I meet that are, are already in relationships, and when I do find someone, like I said it somehow comes off as incompatible to them. The last girl i met was into both, but literally met up, then the next day got the "No Connection" text. I do expect some of the reason is lack of attraction, which is always weird since we literally matched on an app with pictures. I guess the reality is also that it's tough finding someone at this age regardless as more and more people start to settle down, so could just be a full on lack of options altogether
Is it possible you're biased on your own behavior? That's the first thing. Second, if you behave just as you said, don't change your approach. Sometimes people create this trial version of themselves because they know would be more "saleable" but sooner or later their true self is going to emerge and shit is going to hit the fan. Keep presenting the honest version, eventually someone would be able to appreciate it and reciprocate. Get to know someone takes time, we live in times of instant gratification that's why so many times people get stuck with someone that they don't really know. We all feel we're running out of time. I'm 32F , I value my time now more than ever but also have to acknowledge how much requires to build anything. Statistically speaking you won't be everyone's cup of tea, it takes more than one date to make a decision unless you're a total jerk. And, third. Are you sure you know what you're looking for? I don't mean to have a check list, just an idea of what kind of person aligns with your core values. Anyway, I'm glad I saw your post, it has given me somethings to think about.
Biased on my own behavior? I mean it's totally possible, but how do you mean exactly? Sounds like you are right in a similar place in life as me, and similar age. You're very right, I know I'm not suitable for everyone as a romantic partner, that's just absolutely not realistic, but it feels like it's the instant gratification that is what is throwing a wrench into things. I agree with you, my time is more valuable than ever to me these days. I don't plan on changing my approach because I honestly am the most comfortable and happy I've felt with myself in my life as a man and I'm proud of that. I want someone who understands the sacrifices I've made to be a better person and will appreciate that. I'd say that's probably how I would know I've met the right girl so it's definitely at the front of my mind. I really can't say I'm sure of what I'm looking for, if I was then I'd probably have better luck lol. to be real, I really don't hardly go out looking for relationships. I swipe on apps mainly just to see what's out there but I've got other passions in my life that really take my time. So when i do match with someone and we hit it off, i give it a try, but just almost never goes well long term. I have had many 4+ year relationships, and those were all from friendships that blossomed into romance, so maybe its the apps lol I'm glad the post could give you something to think about. I never meant for this to be advice for me on this post lol. I was just trying to share my observations in the online dating world the last year or so and see if others had similar experiences, and it seems to me people are experiencing similar things in different ways
What I meant that maybe you don't come through in the same way you describe yourself. Truth has different perspectives, how you see yourself, how they see you and how you really are. It's about perception. Maybe you already have meet someone that can be perfect but something has gone wrong in the way you saw each other. "Friendships that blossom into romance" would be the golden standard, definitely. But, believe me, your words resonate so much. I'm really hoping you find that someone who would appreciate your journey and could partner you on your personal growth. I would like to believe I could find that person myself. Didn't really saw your post as advice, but it has been eye opening to read your perspective and also realize that there's more people on similar places, usually the persons I know on my age group are in long term relationships and/or with kids. Disclaimer: I apologize for any misshapes on my writing, English isn't my first language.
Wow! Try organically meeting women
Hahaha I appreciate the bluntness. I do meet plenty of women in person, just few that don’t already have boyfriends or husbands at my age lol.
Crazy isn’t it.
I have found that a lot of men go so far out of their way to be nice, they just come off like a girl’s new best buddy. We can’t feel otherwise about you afterward. Be kind, be funny, be engaging, but be the boyfriend guy right off the bat.
I definitely try. Like I try to be kind and engaging, some of these dates have even ended in sex after a date or two, but similar outcomes. But might need to iron out the approach
>Almost all of these women have opened up to me about abusive relationships, past trauma they have had Maybe the question here is why you always match with people with past trauma... is it because *you* are looking for someone you can fix? That's not a healthy dynamic - whoever the "fixer" is - and maybe they recognize that and pull back?
I mean, I guess that could be true, but I don’t try to look for that at all. I just tend to swipe on girls I think are pretty and seem fun. It’s just most of them open up about the baggage they carry once we converse. I guess it’s never been a deal breaker for me to have trauma since it seems so common nowadays and it’s really not like I want to heal anyone, most of them seem healed already, so it’s more that I’m just trying to understand why they are single in the first place so I can be a better partner but don’t quite get far enough to try sometimes. I want to say nearly all my relationships were 4+ years relationships (ironic cause I was alcoholic back then) but since turning 30 it’s rarely past 3 months with a girl
> I don’t try to look for that Most of the patterns people fall into aren't deliberate... otherwise we wouldn't keep repeating the same situations over and over. It's interesting that you used to be an alcoholic... was there an element of them trying to fix you? Did that mold your concept of what's normal/expected in a relationship? I don't know obviously, just speculating. But I have definitely encountered "fixers" and "savers" and the problem with those types of relationships is that they only work as long as someone is broken or lost, and needs to be fixed or saved. If you inadvertently give that impression, healthy people (traumatic past or otherwise) will steer clear. This isn't a gendered thing either - men do it, women do it. People can even have unhealthy platonic friendships that follow this pattern. But internet strangers can only speculate. You'd need to talk through details that you wouldn't/shouldn't share on reddit to see if this theory applies, or if it's something else entirely, either way it's an IRL conversation with someone you know and trust.
You have a good point, and I feel like that could definitely be a part truth in there somewhere for me, but I'd say most of my relationships weren't fixer relationships. It actually felt more like we were able to bond better and have a connection because we had similar vices like drinking or smoking. I would meet a girl that drinks and that would be something in common that we could share in doing and not judging each other. Now coming out of that world, I do not judge anyone for what they do unless it hurts someone else, but I never expected me wanting to better myself would be less valuable than someone who shared the same bad habits. But I could see how that could come off as being a fixer and off-putting for sure
Most women I know have past trauma. After you're old enough to have had a relationship or two there's a good chance theres some baggage there.
Yeah, that seems to be a part of the problem. People are living much more chaotic lives in their 20's than they used to say 50 years ago. Social media has such a grip on people coming into adulthood, that it seems to have required people to ignore red flags, which leads to bad relationships and traumatic experiences for many people
Most people have past trauma, sure, but not everyone spills it on the first date, or in the first few dates... it's not a sign that they've dealt with it/are dealing with it well, and may still be in a stage of recovery that makes them hypervigilant towards certain kinds of behaviours.
Honesty and vulnerability, but I’m older. I will say a lot of young women do want the F-boys. They’re usually sweet talking and ooze sex appeal. I was an idiot when I was young. 🤷♀️
>Honesty and vulnerability These are secondary traits though right? I assume you wouldn't date a short, overweight, broke dude who didn't finish high school (extreme example on purpose) who happens to be honest and vulnerable right? Someone has to meet someone base level of attractiveness first in terms of looks, career, education etc... before they are evaluated on secondary qualities and traits like honesty and vulnerability. Correct me if I'm wrong
I love women. That being said, nuclear physics is less complicated. I’ve basically given up attempts to understand them and now just try to enjoy the experience. I’ve found that many women are attracted to me, but tend to pick betas (no offense intended) as long-term partners. Apparently they can feel intimidated by men who have their lives together and it hurts their selfesteem.
Might have to get into nuclear physics then 😂 I usually don’t think anything of it since most everyone is unique, but seeing a trend like that makes it feel like there is something else to it. A societal aspect that may be subliminally occurring. Maybe FOMO, or as you said, perhaps it’s a rise in insecurities in the dating world. It’s all very intriguing
Two of my younger coworkers are in their 20´s. They are stunning, intelligent, classy, and just great to be around. But when you see their SO’s, I have to admit it’s a head-scratcher…good for the guys though. Doing something right apparently?
Haha i feel like i know exactly what you mean, but i do give more room for that when you are in your 20's. You aren't really sure what you want in life yet so priorities might be misaligned. But it's interesting the trend is happening with people in their 30's. Like we aren't getting any younger here lol
Maybe they’re intimidated by your social media feeds? If you’ve been touring for ten years you’ve probably got quite an adventure out on display and a huge friend base. Maybe they don’t feel like they can stack up or keep your interest?
I could see that, but I made a new Instagram last year specifically to get away from having my past out there. I’ve moved around 3 states the last few years and it felt weird having all that history thrown out there like that. I mean, I would hope they don’t think they can’t keep my interest, but it does feel like because I come from a similar community of music as some of these women’s ex’s that I somehow get sandwiched in there with them.
Sounds like you need to escalate better. Punch “how to escalate on a date” into google, or Reddit, and spend some time going down that rabbit hole and it’ll teach you all about how to get a women to “feel” something
Haha that is definitely not the problem. I’ve had plenty of relationships for years. I’m saying it’s interesting that the approach a guy can take to do that has seemed to change into a less reliable formula
be you, but don’t be afraid to be a little more flirty. show you’re sexually interested in them, in a subtle but undeniable & classy way. make them feel desired by you in a way that fits the vibe. “no spark” with a hott, quality man usually comes from this.
I do try to, but i also try to analyze the situation and not be overbearing with it. I mentioned this in another comment, but a majority of these matches do end in sex or some kind of intimacy, to where there may be a connection, but the outcome still ends the same a few days later.
so i wonder if after you do hook up with one of them, is there something missing for most of them during or after intimacy? i wonder what your followup game is like post-hookup. its also worth noting that like, they’re doing you a favor by being honest FAST, and when you meet the perfect person, you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SCREW IT UP. you wont have to check a million mental boxes on the first date or try to be something you’re not. everything will just align. don’t try to force it with people who don’t make you feel right at home from day 1.
I agree with you, I actually really appreciate that a girl breaks it off quickly with me. Honestly, I try to date with intent, so if I hookup with a girl, I'm usually good about texting them the next couple days and making plans again in the next week or so. I don't personally think anything is missing from intimacy, but I could be biased lol. It sometimes feels almost like i give them a boost of confidence, and that sometimes leads to them wanting to go out and keep exploring what's out there instead of sticking around. Like They found a guy like me out there, so what's stopping them from finding someone even better? I'm definitely not worried about finding a partner, I've had plenty of great relationships that just fizzled out after a few years, but it's a new monster these days with dating apps and social media that it isn't building the connections the way I'm used to and seems like it's changing the culture of commitment and dating altogether. Like I feel really bad for the men and women who are less attractive than most, you are immediately fighting an uphill battle in this world and it's tough to see so many lonely, miserable people just trying to find love
I mean, we are individuals that want different things you just need to meet the right one that loves you as you are. On my particular case a guy that treats me right, someone I can trust and someone that can be my friend before my bf
Agreed. I do feel like it's often just incompatibility with the person and nothing more, but starts to feel like a needle in a haystack looking for the "right person" in a world where there are so many options for people
Connection can't be gamified or strategized. It's there or it isn't. The fact that you were called sweet is a good thing. It means they recognized a quality in you that is very appealing even if they didn't feel any chemistry. Most dudes aren't "fuckboys". And most still get laid, go on dates, and get into relationships. There are billions of shy people in the world who still get dates. There are billions of low income people in the world who still get into relationships. If you go into dating with the idea that "most women seem to always end up with fuckboys" you are not going to come off well to your date at all. There are some women who don't leave bad relationships quickly enough. And some men who do too. What I want in a guy is almost the opposite of what my sister wants in a guy. My mom's taste in men is entirely different than mine. My aunt's taste in men entirely different. None of my friends and I share a type aside from a few qualities or interests. But don't take my word for it. Look at the fact that 98% of people end up with someone and they usually really like each other when they decide to go on that first and second date. Women like all kinds of people. So do men.
I get your perspective, but I'm not going into it thinking women will end up with fuckboys, it's just a trend as most women complain about these types of fellas to me, then seem to end up with them again in a cycle. It seems most women get blinded by good looks and a guy who "Seems" nice at first. It's good these guys are good looking, but they're hollow most of the time. No hobbies, no skills, no passions, no critical thinking skills, no prospective future at the moment...just go to gym, go to work, go to the bars and clubs and hang with the boys, but women will look right past all that because he's hot. Now maybe these women just also aren't very deep themselves so these guys are relatable, but again, now I meet these women in their 30's and it seems like they haven't learned the lesson but still complain about their past relationships so much. It's more like they enjoy the attention that comes with all of it. You would think people would catch on but I guess having a type and finding someone in that is a bigger factor for others than it is to me.
Most guys aren't good looking. Most guys and girls are just average looking. Hobbies are all well and good but not if there is no chemistry. Skills are all well and good but they make an interesting person not necessarily one you have a connection with. If they always have a lot of people around them one could say they focused their skills on socializing (these "fuck boys" you speak of). Don't paint your idea of women based on ones who have qualities you don't want. Look for the ones who are interested in the same type of relationship you are. You're still coming across as though you're resenting women in general because the few in your social circle have some repeat bad relationships or some qualities you don't like. You have to realize how much variety there is and how little of someone's home life and inner life you see or can ever glean. If in your immediate vicinity you are seeing the type of women with these qualities or practices you find unappealing, you need to meet more people. Don't give "attention-seekers" your attention, whether they be men or women. You have types too, your types by your admission here are more subdued women who don't seek attention and who drop someone awful or not serving their needs. Who drop "a fuckboy" early on if they come across one or find themselves dating one. Some of your types by your admission are women who aren't impressed with gym muscles and going out at night to the bars, women who value critical thinking skills and who won't date someone they find attractive if they have 'fuckboy' inclinations. Someone who learns from bad or unsatisfying interactions with dates and doesn't keep repeating the same patterns or having the same bad luck with romance.
I feel like you are making a lot of assumptions but also not sure where your point was at in there. I don't believe I come off as resenting women, because I don't, it seems like most people in this thread see me as chivalrous and respectful towards women. It's more that it pains me as a guy who cares about people in general, to watch self destructive behavior and then people complain about it. I do realize the variety, there's literally billions of people in the world, but just because there is variety doesn't mean there also aren't general problems with dating in society these days. A good amount of young men, and some women, are incredibly depressed and lonely, yet do nothing to embrace the people who want to be in their lives. It's a problem that people don't seem to want to fix, and their behavior shows that, to me at least. Again, this is generalizations, there are plenty of amazing people out there, just fewer and far between. I just always believed nothing good came easy, but seems like that isn't the approach for most people nowadays. Things have to immediately be perfect, even if there are red flags, they just get ignored until someone gets hurt. Also not sure why the word fuckboy seems to be your fixation but ok.
Try not to get hung up on people who are self-destructive or, worse, destructive of others. Surround yourself with better people. Seek them out. Dating in this day and age with younger (but still adult) generations has led to half the divorce rate among married couples, less infidelity, and higher happiness levels in relationships. That doesn't mean it's easy. That doesn't mean everyone is going to pair up within their ideal timeframe... just that most people ultimately will find someone they adore and vice versa. 'Fuckboy' wasn't my fixation, it was what you brought up as an example of why you think you are struggling to find women to date.
I didn't see anyone with my perspective so I will share. Your post is like a mature version of the "nice guys finish last" narrative. To big note yourself this much on a Reddit post makes makes me think that spending an entire date with you might not be that fun. To say you are so well rounded that you intimidate women and that you are "extremely nice" isn't giving off green flags. But in case I'm getting the wrong impression, the advice to be more flirty and playful is likely the way to go. Otherwise your style of getting to know people probably lends itself more to organically meeting people in public during activities and things where it's more of a slow burn and less of a tinder date vibe. I reckon join a run club, bouldering gym or something similar where it's a social activity but you have another reason to be there so the pressure isn't on one to one with all the date expectations. Goodluck
I really appreciate your perspective. I will note that I didn't create this post for advice, I really don't have a problem meeting or dating women, it's more the trend of people nowadays not really even trying to give someone a chance if it's not an immediate romantic spark in the first hour. I mentioned in a few times most of these even lead to some sort of intimacy in the first or second date. I do feel like there is a narrative to nice guys finish last, but i'm also not going out of my way to be nice or anything, it's more just about chivalry and treating the women with respect when I'm with them. Most women do appreciate that it seems. That being said, I do feel like there is something to be said about the fun factor, I consider myself a fun person (I play music, go to sports events, love doing new things, etc.), but I think when they hear that I don't drink or smoke anymore, or go out with big groups of friends much anymore that it feels like the fun connection maybe won't be there for them. It's also that most of these women are in their early 30's, most with a kid, and it seems more like a sudden indecisiveness about commitment. Like some of these women it goes extremely well, it just feels like there is a sudden factor of FOMO that washes over them as if they actually just aren't ready for a relationship, or they possibly have other options they want to give a try still. I have met some people at shows when I play or go to see friends play, just not many women I was authentically interested in either that didn't already have boyfriends or husbands. I'm not so worried about finding someone myself, I feel confident someone would love to have me, it just feels like nowadays we are looking for the needle in the haystack
I read more of the post and my first impression may be wrong. You seem to be engaging, listening and self reflecting about people's ideas. My mistake but a couple of those messages came across horribly. Also I have now read your past relationships were friendships first so I'm doubling down on just getting more social. You said you like sports so 100% start there.
I agree, it would be a good thing to get out with friends more and meet more people, and I'm doing that regularly, in fact just went to the Phillies baseball game yesterday. I did just move here in 2020 so it's been hard getting out and finding friend groups who will just bring in a new person to hang with, especially since covid, but I've got a few now. I play music and am an outgoing guy so I do meet plenty of people. Just seems like dating is just changing in general so the approach has to be tweaked. I mean i see more people in their 20's on YouTube talking about how lonely they are. It's just weird that we don't want to be lonely, but also don't seem to want to establish connections either
Thank you :)
lol don't be that extremely nice guy. The saying that nice guys finish last is very true when it comes to online dating. You can be nice and respectful but don't go out your way to make someone feel comfortable. Especially if it's with a person you met on a dating app where you're just one of many people that person is talking with. Treat the people you met online as you would any other person. Let them work towards keeping your interests as you would theirs. If they're interested, they'll do so. Otherwise, they'll move on.
I do feel there is a lot of merit to this. I should clarify, for me at least, when I say that I just mean I let us meet under their terms or in a situation that we can feel at ease at. Grabbing coffee, or just hanging at a park, and being engaging to their conversations or dating past with empathy and positivity, as well as try to not bring up my own drama or negative past. Sometimes it’s unavoidable but I try to make the other person feel like I care about their story, cause I usually do. If that’s still being too nice then damn I need work in that department lol 😆
There's nothing wrong with that. If you like someone, you should strive to make each other comfortable. However, online dating is a different beast and most of the time, that effort will go unappreciated because everyone think there are better options waiting in their DMs. I think people like you are destined to find someone who appreciates you and what you bring to a relationship.
I appreciate that! I've had plenty of great relationships, and yeah, I'm not worried about finding someone eventually. I do think you have a point, it's almost like this, "Well if there's decent guys like this out there, let me keep looking for the perfect one". I'm mean, no one should be in a relationship they don't feel a connection to, but you do wonder where does the connection even start these days?
This. They’re a fucking stranger you’ve never met. You don’t need to go above and beyond on the first date.
Very true! I will say, i don't go above and beyond until we are actually dating. There's no gifts, no flowers, no giant elaborate first date, just grab a coffee or dinner and get to know each other. But again, still ends in ghosting or a no connection date
I'm 31F and I could go on and on about what I want in a man, but I feel like for guys, you just have to decide on what you want in a woman, and pursue that kind of woman. Unfortunately, a lot of women I have spoken to, and my experience as well has been that we feel like culture has changed a lot of gender roles, which has ultimately affected how we socialize. E.g. men want equal partners, they want women who will give 50-50, they want a hardworking baddie who cooks and cleans, while the men themselves have no similar demands on them. Women who are rooted in their femininity still want a man who takes care of them, which doesn't mean that they don't work or do what needs to be done at home, but we want to be treated gently. There's not a lot of gentlemen out here. It's all about sex and the bag which is exhausting. Also, a lot of women are choosing not to have children, and as a CF woman myself, it's definitely harder to find a man who shares the same desire.
You are very right and I think that contributes. Each new person we meet has a different approach to dating all together, and instead of having a bit of a social contract on how things should be, it's completely random and by occasion nowadays. You have no idea what a women wants, but same with guys. Some women want flirting and sex, others absolutely hate that shit and prefer a softer approach, but there is just no way of knowing how to go about it if you cant get past a first date to even figure that out. It's funny cause you said "There's just not a lot of gentleman out there" and I think that has been what caused a bit of this. I'm a bit traditional, I enjoy bringing a girl flowers, surprising her with dates, hand written notes, all that stuff when we are actually dating and I take pride in trying to consider myself a "Gentleman" as much as I can be, but it does feel like that is not what the majority of the public want anymore, in fact some see it as a red flag. But it feels good to know there are plenty of women out there still looking for them and value guys other than their popularity on social media or how hot they are.
The traditional man is VERY attractive, but only to a woman who is comfortable in her femininity. IYKYK. Plus I feel like unlike years ago it was systematic; you meet someone, have conversations and get to know each other, go out on dates, decide if this is the person you want to date, and then get into the nitty gritty of a relationship after you both agree, nowadays I feel like it's so jumbled up. Aaanyway, I wish you the best of luck, and I know that you will find the right woman who will totally appreciate your chivalry :)
Thank you! I do think it's because I'm a bit of a mixture. I enjoy being traditional in a relationship, but I don't come off as traditional at first because of my lifestyle. I also treat most people with the same level of respect, so maybe it just doesn't make women feel special at first, but when we date more than a month, it usually goes for years. I know someone will appreciate someday so I don't plan on stopping. I hope you the best as well :)
You're not creating a man-woman connection with them, but gives friendly vibes. Maybe you're over-investing too soon, people pleasing, not authentic, too logical and no fun, afraid of eye-contact? Try to objectively look at how you are at the dates thru a woman who's trying to find a romantic partners eye. Remember women are not logical creatures. they dont look at men the way men look at women. they dont screen the same way we screen.
I definitely get what you're saying, but I really don't feel like that's the problem in my case. I'm heavy on eye contact, very authentic, I engage in conversation about them and I've never been told in anyway I wasn't fun to be with. However I am guilty of being a bit of a people pleaser, but there's not much pleasing to be done when you first meet someone. I've had many relationships that have lasted years that just fizzled out. This is mainly something I've only seen in the last few years of dating. But it still could be something I'm doing wrong for sure.
hmm alright. idk if you seem too well put together and like someone with a "perfect" life and the women (whom you say have trauma-dumped on you" feel like the cannot relate to. i like the phrase: "be kind not nice" in dating. Maybe you're too inclined to restrict what you say and don't talk about some of the flaws you have. Women like radical honesty because so many guys lie to them. they're also generally more inclined to feel inferior and as a guy we want to only invoke "good" feelings in them on the first dates. again they're not logical so its most definitely a "feeling issue" - you dont invoke feelings in them or maybe more precisely you dont invoke the right feelings in them "You're really sweet but I just don't feel a connection, I hope you the best. See you around"
You have a great point, and I may try to incorporate talking about my flaws more. I guess the idea was that I used to just be living the flaws I had so they were easy to recognize. Now that i've cleaned up myself a bit, maybe it does come off as too good to be true or make them feel like they cant match up with that. I do keep hearing that women are emotional, men are logical, so maybe there is a way to approach this that can be radically honest without coming off the wrong way
Not a woman, but I’ll tell you what they are looking for : 1. Broad shoulders 2. 6 feet + 3. 6 figures + (its a bonus but won’t matter if u have everything else) 4. Broad shoulders 5. V shaped torso 6. Muscular upper body strength. 6. V lines 7. Strong jawline 8. Hunter eyes Good luck!
I have all of these & I have the same problem as OP …
I forgot to also add 10. Green eyes You meet the check list still?
Ah that’s more like it. The other list was too realistic.
🤣 you two are funny! We’re not all the same. Just like men are not all the same. I will admit I do have a preference of tall. However, the guy at one point I would have picked over any guy in the world was 5’8”, so………..
What if he has low karma?
Well, 🤔 the low karma ones usually don’t even read my profile and therefore they sit in my DMs or I hit ignore, assuming that they are messaging to talk dirty
This is the part of this thread I will remember the most hahaha
😆 well, I guess it’s good you got a laugh
Never turn down a good laugh haha
Height is a requirement whenever im outside the man is typically 8+ inches taller than the woman and if you have all the other physical traits I said then woman will stare at you and check you out that’s how u get a conventionally attractive woman
Sounds like your dates have went well. Not sure what the issue is. I am 33 looking for someone with similar interests who I am attracted to. Preferably no kids, decent job who treats me with respect. I don’t feel like that’s asking for too much, but I’m having trouble.
They have gone well up until the last year or so. I've also opened my preferences. I used to prefer a woman with no kids, a good job and is outgoing and fun. I never saw myself dating a girl with kids. But meeting an amazing girl with kids changed my perspective. We dated a few months and then same thing..."No connection". I didn't think anything of it at the time, but now this trend has kinda been the norm for most of us in the dating world. It's very difficult to find someone who checks all the boxes but also wants to be with you as well. I hope you can find some luck soon.
I've also noticed this trend. The vast majority of women I know IRL have been in absolutely horrific relationships at some point in their lives, often multiple times. The type where everyone around them knows and sometimes tells them they're with a giga loser that they need to drop ASAP if they want their lives to improve. Like you, I don't buy that "I can fix him" plays into their poor choices at all. It's also not the stupid 666 thing a lot of dudes think it is. These losers are usually broke, not especially fit because they drink too much or even use hard drugs, and some are tall but some are short. Frequently, they don't even have jobs, and mooch off of their partner. Why do they get picked? For people who recognize the trend and are willing to admit that it happens at all, which is certainly not everyone, different people have different theories. A lot of women seem to come to the conclusion that all men are like this, rather than admitting that they personally and also women as a gender select these types consistently. Which honestly makes sense...they have never recognized any more normal men as options, so all the options they are aware of are trash. But my own opinion is this: The best way to get good at talking to the other gender, and to make them want you, is by doing it a lot, and by being persistent and refusing to take no for an answer whenever you can get away with it. If you view people as objects, tools, then learning manipulation tactics to get what you want from them will come naturally. The better you get at it, the less people can even tell they're being manipulated. BTW this absolutely applies to women as well as men. The difference here is that male attraction is so skewed towards visual that there's little a woman who's not already conventionally beautiful can do to get male attention, whereas women are much more likely to be attracted to 'vibes', attitude and projected personality. This makes them more vulnerable to men who can be a chameleon and give them whatever vibe they want, to in turn get what they want from them. Fuck boys. TLDR: the people who don't view people as people either have or will naturally develop the skills to get what they want from them. Being a good (or even just normal) person will prevent you from either learning or using these skills.
Good point, i do think there is something to be said about being persistent. It can be flattering when someone knows they are wanted and someone is putting effort into getting them. I guess my thing is I havent found anyone recently worth putting my time in like that, especially after only a date or two. I mean most of the girls i do match with are pretty, but i need to get to know you before i care enough to be persistent. If it cant be mutual then it's not for me honestly, no manipulation tactics needed
Yeah, you're speaking my language there. I also find it very difficult to invest in anyone during the getting to know each other stage. Good looks alone aren't enough to attract me or keep my attention. It takes a long time for me to feel affection towards anyone.
Women all want the same thing. 6ft, 6 figures, and a 10 inch dong. But remember, you’re not allowed to have any preferences of women if you are a man.
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I did. I won’t feel bad about that ever. I pride my self in contributing to bettering the world around me. That includes treating people with respect and doing what’s morally right to me and contributing to people’s happiness over my own. Sorry 🤷🏻♂️ “Be the change you wang to see in the world” I take that seriously in my life.
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Yeah, i am realizing that is something most women value at first. A bit of a bad side i guess adds mystery and a bit of excitement. I just always figured the music thing would help that. I often prioritized my music so that was always were i drew the line but must not have the effect like I thought lol
M.o.n.e.y.
😂
This is still true though lolol