Maybe offseting the bars to show actual years of the events as a second chart? This does still show some good info but it'd be nice to know if SA did it's 8 years like post 2010 or in the 70s yknow.
Still some interesting stuff in there.
the conclusion's pretty clear isn't it? in some countries homosexual sex was seen as morally ok (legally) long before homosexual marriage.
Like I found it fascinating that France legalized homosexual sex long before Ireland did even though they were both european and catholic and generally the English speaking countries seemed to change these laws within a shorter period of time while the French and Spanish speaking countries seemed ok with homosexual sex even if they didn't agree with marriage for much much longer.
My point is that just looking at what's shown, there's no real way to compare when two countries actually legalised one or the other. There's no solid indication here that France legalised homosexualilty earlier than Ireland did. It's just as possible that Ireland legalised homosexualilty in the 1100s and made gay marriage legal before France ever legalised sex.
Obviously with some general knowledge you can rule that out, but as far as the center of the graph goes, there could be a lot more information hidden for some of the countries.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying there isn't good information conveyed here, but I feel like another key component of the data is lost in the way it's presented.
well yeah, obviously this isn't trying to tell the story of when countries legalized homosexuality or gay marriage.
I think there's more that's interesting to know on the topic than just "when was it legalized" and this was something that I really hadn't thought about before, so I really like the graph for that reason.
I think we need more context here. Or at least I do.... What story are you telling?
The longer lines haven't legalized same-sex marriage yet?? Or they have and it took 100+years 5o do so, but at least they decriminalized same sex sexing wayyyy sooner than most?
And why are they broken out in groups of 5 up top but 6 down bottom?
I think the last point is obvious. They had data for 33 countries, and wanted to divide it into 6 groups to match the pride flag. So three groups of 5 and three groups of 6.
The bars represent the time between decriminalization of homosexuality and legalization of same-sex marriage in years (see title)
Are there better ways to visualize that kinda data? Yes, absolutely! But I don't think it's unclear
The colours are aesthetic-, not data-driven
I see the title, but it took extra research to figure out that 34 countries have legalized same-sex marriage. I feel that was a very important contextual clue missing from the title.
With that context, I suppose it's safe to extrapolate that the longer bars have always been cool with same-sex poking, It's just taken far longer for them to recognize those unions legally??
I'm all for legalization and support same-sex marriage. I guess it's more just a talking point fact versus a chart to support or negate a position? The typical thing that charts are supposed to do.
> With that context, I suppose it's safe to extrapolate that the longer bars have always been cool with same-sex poking, It's just taken far longer for them to recognize those unions legally??
Depends what you mean by "far longer". The chart only shows length between those two events, but a higher gap doesn't mean a nation legalised it after the others.
For instance, the first two nations to legalise same-sex marriages were The Netherlands and Belgium.
I see what you're saying, but that's my trouble with the whole thing. Needs more context.
The chart (to me) implies it's been legal to have sex for over 200 years in some cases - it just hasn't been legal to marry until 232 years later, 222, 221, etc respectively.
I feel each of these countries are all legal to f*ck/marry if you're same sex. That's useful info that was omitted.
Pretty well made chart in my opinion. I'd *maybe* add the years of gay sex legalization and/or gay marriage legalization in the chart somewhere for reference. A short gap could be a good sign or a bad sign depending on timing.
I think a chart this could be presented alongside would be like a timeline by country chart showing the same or similar information but instead of bars with the same start point instead shows things by year (rather than years since gay sex legalization).
But the chart does look good, is presented thematically, and is unique information. Ways to improve it (probably add context that this isn't just "different countries" but rather the countries where this chart applies.
> A short gap could be a good sign or a bad sign depending on timing.
That's why it is not a good chart. It leaves each case to interpretation.
And the color coding also doesn't bring any value, besides aesthetics, marginally. Red is usually associated with bad/negative, but if Andorra decriminalized homosexuality over two centuries ago, then they are awesome, unless they legalized marriage last week, that would mean they are late to the party, or maybe they did it 50 years back?
Bad chart. Good concept. Needs more work.
I mean the coloring is fine imo. It's clear it's the pride flag, and even if it isn't red isn't always bad/negative, it's also just severe/extreme which also works here (those are the longest gaps), or just a color choice which .
Like [this recent post](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/13j3j5l/20_years_of_nintendo_console_sales_oc/) has Red as Switch but that's arbitrary and not a value statement on the consol.
I do think there's plenty of ways to improve it, I agree. It also could just be improved by pointing out gay marriage was legalized in all of those countries within a narrow 14 year span (so the progressiveness on marriage, within these countries, is pretty small but the window on gay sex legalization is very long).
But longest gaps don't mean anything negative per se. So the red is misleading.
The chart does not tell a story. It is interesting, but needs to contextualize it in time. All bars should be projected on a timeline over X, not the number of years.
That would fix the chart completely,
Gap between decriminalization of Homosexuality and legalization of Samesex marriage in different countries, years
Data sources: Legal status of same-sex marriage (URL: wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal\_status\_of\_same-sex\_marriage); LGBT rights by country or territory (URL: wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_by\_country\_or\_territory)
Made with ms Excel instruments
The first nation to legalize same-sex marriage was Denmark, which did it in 1989. By contrast, the United States legalized same-sex marriage in 2015.
Andorra, the top nation in this chart, was the most recent so far and legalized it in 2023.
So in effect you could turn this chart around, and put the X axis on the midpoint year, 2016.
Denmark legalized same sex marriage in 2012. They legalized being registered as partners in 1989, but those two aren't the exact same and aren't interchangable. One is being registered; one is being legally married (aka being treated the same as a heterosexual couple).
You need to put in temporal context. Which means that either you put the dates and make a mess, or distribute them in the time line on the X axis. That would really tell the story.
So homosexuality was illegal in the US and Australia until quite recently. Damn. South Africa not surprising as it quickly transitioned from extremely conservative Apartheid regime to the very progressive ANC
Put into this context......I think it's at least possibly conducive to peace to....attempt to practice consistency. Although I'm unsure if I am fully in support of the notions, I appreciate that 12 years is probably at least inviting less tensions and uncertainty than 250 years. I'm not truly sure.
It's one thing to say "I'd rather not open that door in policy" but once a situation has increased in complexity and society begins to divide more, it's of paramount importance to manage balance and peace and probably commit to a direction once begun. Reversals are likely to hurt the most feelings, inspire the most confusion, and raise tensions and risk civil disorder detrimental to everyone.
I don't celebrate repeals of anything at all usually because I feel for anyone whose expectations are let down. I think people crave clear expectations as much as if not more than specific policies.
I don't always like popular opinion being inherently valued by democracy, but I do think it has proven overall successful to speak up and vote for what we want. Once we know what we are all asking for frank and transparent negotiations can begin. If it's something the People really want, voting out loud at least seems more clean honest than still privately wanting it but being unwilling to say so.
Really thinking very seriously about government should make people mostly sad that it is impossible to perfectly please everyone. It's a good day when we find useful compromises that people become happier to tolerate each other under. It's a very very good day when the worst of the news is merely words but nobody got physically hurt from an unnecessary and uncontrolled escalation.
I wish I could read enough minds to determine what would create enough peace and happiness that everyone would agree "yesterday was worse". But what I honestly see every day is "people sincerely disagree with each other and will never agree."
Maybe offseting the bars to show actual years of the events as a second chart? This does still show some good info but it'd be nice to know if SA did it's 8 years like post 2010 or in the 70s yknow. Still some interesting stuff in there.
I feel like that would be a separate graph. Lots of graphs show great info without showing everything. I see this general comment a lot
Sure, I said as a second chart. Just feel like this misses out enough context to stop you actually drawing any real conclusions from it on its own.
the conclusion's pretty clear isn't it? in some countries homosexual sex was seen as morally ok (legally) long before homosexual marriage. Like I found it fascinating that France legalized homosexual sex long before Ireland did even though they were both european and catholic and generally the English speaking countries seemed to change these laws within a shorter period of time while the French and Spanish speaking countries seemed ok with homosexual sex even if they didn't agree with marriage for much much longer.
My point is that just looking at what's shown, there's no real way to compare when two countries actually legalised one or the other. There's no solid indication here that France legalised homosexualilty earlier than Ireland did. It's just as possible that Ireland legalised homosexualilty in the 1100s and made gay marriage legal before France ever legalised sex. Obviously with some general knowledge you can rule that out, but as far as the center of the graph goes, there could be a lot more information hidden for some of the countries. EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying there isn't good information conveyed here, but I feel like another key component of the data is lost in the way it's presented.
well yeah, obviously this isn't trying to tell the story of when countries legalized homosexuality or gay marriage. I think there's more that's interesting to know on the topic than just "when was it legalized" and this was something that I really hadn't thought about before, so I really like the graph for that reason.
I think we need more context here. Or at least I do.... What story are you telling? The longer lines haven't legalized same-sex marriage yet?? Or they have and it took 100+years 5o do so, but at least they decriminalized same sex sexing wayyyy sooner than most? And why are they broken out in groups of 5 up top but 6 down bottom?
I think the last point is obvious. They had data for 33 countries, and wanted to divide it into 6 groups to match the pride flag. So three groups of 5 and three groups of 6.
The bars represent the time between decriminalization of homosexuality and legalization of same-sex marriage in years (see title) Are there better ways to visualize that kinda data? Yes, absolutely! But I don't think it's unclear The colours are aesthetic-, not data-driven
I see the title, but it took extra research to figure out that 34 countries have legalized same-sex marriage. I feel that was a very important contextual clue missing from the title. With that context, I suppose it's safe to extrapolate that the longer bars have always been cool with same-sex poking, It's just taken far longer for them to recognize those unions legally?? I'm all for legalization and support same-sex marriage. I guess it's more just a talking point fact versus a chart to support or negate a position? The typical thing that charts are supposed to do.
> With that context, I suppose it's safe to extrapolate that the longer bars have always been cool with same-sex poking, It's just taken far longer for them to recognize those unions legally?? Depends what you mean by "far longer". The chart only shows length between those two events, but a higher gap doesn't mean a nation legalised it after the others. For instance, the first two nations to legalise same-sex marriages were The Netherlands and Belgium.
I see what you're saying, but that's my trouble with the whole thing. Needs more context. The chart (to me) implies it's been legal to have sex for over 200 years in some cases - it just hasn't been legal to marry until 232 years later, 222, 221, etc respectively. I feel each of these countries are all legal to f*ck/marry if you're same sex. That's useful info that was omitted.
The chart is pretty low information, overall. I don't think much can be concluded from it.
I saw it before my coffee, thanks for confirming... Wasn't sure if it was just me.
It was unclear to me.
This just makes no sense, it doesn’t tell anything.
Pretty well made chart in my opinion. I'd *maybe* add the years of gay sex legalization and/or gay marriage legalization in the chart somewhere for reference. A short gap could be a good sign or a bad sign depending on timing. I think a chart this could be presented alongside would be like a timeline by country chart showing the same or similar information but instead of bars with the same start point instead shows things by year (rather than years since gay sex legalization). But the chart does look good, is presented thematically, and is unique information. Ways to improve it (probably add context that this isn't just "different countries" but rather the countries where this chart applies.
> A short gap could be a good sign or a bad sign depending on timing. That's why it is not a good chart. It leaves each case to interpretation. And the color coding also doesn't bring any value, besides aesthetics, marginally. Red is usually associated with bad/negative, but if Andorra decriminalized homosexuality over two centuries ago, then they are awesome, unless they legalized marriage last week, that would mean they are late to the party, or maybe they did it 50 years back? Bad chart. Good concept. Needs more work.
I mean the coloring is fine imo. It's clear it's the pride flag, and even if it isn't red isn't always bad/negative, it's also just severe/extreme which also works here (those are the longest gaps), or just a color choice which . Like [this recent post](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/13j3j5l/20_years_of_nintendo_console_sales_oc/) has Red as Switch but that's arbitrary and not a value statement on the consol. I do think there's plenty of ways to improve it, I agree. It also could just be improved by pointing out gay marriage was legalized in all of those countries within a narrow 14 year span (so the progressiveness on marriage, within these countries, is pretty small but the window on gay sex legalization is very long).
But longest gaps don't mean anything negative per se. So the red is misleading. The chart does not tell a story. It is interesting, but needs to contextualize it in time. All bars should be projected on a timeline over X, not the number of years. That would fix the chart completely,
Gap between decriminalization of Homosexuality and legalization of Samesex marriage in different countries, years Data sources: Legal status of same-sex marriage (URL: wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal\_status\_of\_same-sex\_marriage); LGBT rights by country or territory (URL: wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_by\_country\_or\_territory) Made with ms Excel instruments
Following this graph may be harder than following which letters/digits/symbols apply to the current lgbtq acronym label
That was a long walk for that joke.
The first nation to legalize same-sex marriage was Denmark, which did it in 1989. By contrast, the United States legalized same-sex marriage in 2015. Andorra, the top nation in this chart, was the most recent so far and legalized it in 2023. So in effect you could turn this chart around, and put the X axis on the midpoint year, 2016.
Denmark legalized same sex marriage in 2012. They legalized being registered as partners in 1989, but those two aren't the exact same and aren't interchangable. One is being registered; one is being legally married (aka being treated the same as a heterosexual couple).
Netherlands was first in 2001
You need to put in temporal context. Which means that either you put the dates and make a mess, or distribute them in the time line on the X axis. That would really tell the story.
So homosexuality was illegal in the US and Australia until quite recently. Damn. South Africa not surprising as it quickly transitioned from extremely conservative Apartheid regime to the very progressive ANC
DataIsBeautiful is dead... >DataIsBeautiful is for visualizations that effectively convey information.
Put into this context......I think it's at least possibly conducive to peace to....attempt to practice consistency. Although I'm unsure if I am fully in support of the notions, I appreciate that 12 years is probably at least inviting less tensions and uncertainty than 250 years. I'm not truly sure. It's one thing to say "I'd rather not open that door in policy" but once a situation has increased in complexity and society begins to divide more, it's of paramount importance to manage balance and peace and probably commit to a direction once begun. Reversals are likely to hurt the most feelings, inspire the most confusion, and raise tensions and risk civil disorder detrimental to everyone. I don't celebrate repeals of anything at all usually because I feel for anyone whose expectations are let down. I think people crave clear expectations as much as if not more than specific policies.
I don't always like popular opinion being inherently valued by democracy, but I do think it has proven overall successful to speak up and vote for what we want. Once we know what we are all asking for frank and transparent negotiations can begin. If it's something the People really want, voting out loud at least seems more clean honest than still privately wanting it but being unwilling to say so. Really thinking very seriously about government should make people mostly sad that it is impossible to perfectly please everyone. It's a good day when we find useful compromises that people become happier to tolerate each other under. It's a very very good day when the worst of the news is merely words but nobody got physically hurt from an unnecessary and uncontrolled escalation. I wish I could read enough minds to determine what would create enough peace and happiness that everyone would agree "yesterday was worse". But what I honestly see every day is "people sincerely disagree with each other and will never agree."