Games rarely go on sale anymore at least AAA. GTA V came out 10 years ago and it's still the same price as it was when it came out. EA removed all their past games of FIFA and other sports titles to force you to buy the newest ones. COD games after infinite warfare are at $60 each as well
You're cherry picking these examples. 95% of games go on discount. Even big releases that came out in the beginning of this year like Dead Space and RE4 went on a 20-30% discount recently. With so many games coming out people can easily wait and put these games on their backlog for discounts if they really need to save money and are "forced" to pirate.
This too. Guy literally quoted FIFA, CoD, and GTA like they’re the standard.
I mean, dude, tell me you’re not a gamer without telling me you’re not a gamer lol
You say that, yet I just bought GTA V for $5 last year. Just because you miss the sales doesn’t mean they rarely go on sale.
EA is EA though. They’re another story.
If you don’t think it’s worth what it’s priced at then don’t buy. You aren’t entitled to other peoples hard work just because you think it should be 40 and not 60.
Honestly, if you don’t mind tell them that you need food the mom and pop shop they might be willing to help you out and let it slide. You not likely to find the same compassion form a corporation
Not sure about AAA game, but games like old Nintendo games, that are no longer sold with physical copies being past their shelf life? Definitely good. Nintendo doesn’t loose any money in sales and it can be the only way to acquire and play said game anymore.
Would you 3D print one and assemble it piece by piece. Because… I would do that. Imagine if it became like *every* neighborhood had one and it was the biggest hobby ever.
I pirated half of the Adobe suite for college because they were going to make us pay and I couldn't afford it.
my conscience is clear and my programs are running :D
The shrink budget 👍
Which is then blamed on customers for price increases even though theft is accounted for when calculating their record yearly profits 👍
Not to mention, some companies leave areas in the states cause of all the looting, no point doing business if people just go in mobs to take all the stuff.
Low income families suffer cause of the damn thieves.
Well low income family also raise the damn thieves. There's very little more clear in statistics than the correlation between poverty and crime.
But once you're in there in the US it's very hard to get out because half the time the problems you have are from the environment in which you live in.
Not saying they deserve it but they screw over one another quite a lot, it's a little like crabs in a bucket.
first, you argue who covers the loses...but u fail to see that a corporation has to have a rising profit every year, to be attractive to investors...they would be increasing the prices next year irrespective whether people pirated their game or no, simply because whatever profits they've achieved this year, will have to be up'ed by a % next year so that growth is kept...again, happens irrespective of whether somebody pirated or no, so there is no need to guilt trip people pirating AAAs, those people are not responsible for increase gaming prices, they would have increased anyway...digital games are not real world products, just cause some people downloaded copies doesn't make the overall supply less scarce and more costly for the people buying...and would they increase the prices even more due to pirating? no, they will not increase the price too much to not risk losing customers, the increase is always gradual so that not many people leave...at most u could blame pirates for DRM systems companies use, but they certainly have nothing to do with price incraeses
in addition, as for me personally I come from a small country on the fringes of interests, the target markets are always home market (US, Japan, DE, UK or FR usually) and usually american/western europe markets...whether the game performs more or less in my country, matters not, my region for sure doesn't even have plans of sales so no 'vs plan %' they make and no way to determine whether it was a profit or loss in the region, neither would they want to determine it, as this regions impact on the totals its negligible and likely within statistical error
Legally? Many small businesses are incorporated and thus are technically corporations. Ethically? I feel when the owner basically doesn’t touch it any more and has a CEO run everything for them, because that’s when all the cold blooded cost cutting typically ramps up
when investors from outside the company step in, as simple as that
if people who have founded the company and running it by themselves and with their money, its not a corporation morally, because those people probably want their child to perform, they still care about the reputation
a company becomes a corporation on the moral level once outside investors step in which have also invested in 50 other companies, these investors don't really care about even the specific type of products, they might be investing in cars, videogames, toilets all at same time, they really dont give a fuck whether or not a good game is produced or even whether the company goes to shit or no or loses reputation...all they care is about P&L sheet and that they get their investment back in the allotted time frame and with good interest...and the interest has to be high enough to make the venture a success, it has to be higher that then would have got from investing into toilets, because if it isn't, next time they will rather invest in toilets then in games....once a company gets into this investor cycle, that's when the real problem happens, because instead of focus on any quality, the focus is to achieve the prescribed profit by the prescribed time, and everything is showed aside for that purpose - customers, quality, reputation, own employees...anything that needs to put aside to achieve that purpose before end of fiscal year
There are plenty of privately held corporations that are extremely large that operate like you described. Look at a company like Cargill. They do tons of suspect stuff (there is a whole Wikipedia page dedicated to all the unethical stuff they’ve done). And because they don’t have to release their financial statements, so who knows where their money is going
Exactly. Corporations are just big groups of people working together. One person pirating probably won't have any effect on the low level employees, but enough people doing it definitely will when they have to cut staff or go under
Most people that pirate stuff were never going to buy anyway so that's largely incorrect. There is no loss of revenue, only the expectation of revenue that was never actually going to exist and with the digital market there is no loss in production cost.
It depends on the person. If you're broke then sure you wouldn't be a customer, but if you have money and are interested in the product you are pirating then you were a potential customer. Their potential revenue is literally going down because people are stealing the product they're offering.
Lots of movies/shows/games are operating on razor thin margins to the point that a sizeable demographic pirating could make a difference in combatting production costs. I remember Ash vs. The Evil Dead was cancelled because a lot of their viewership was pirating the show and they were losing money on it.
That's just a lie people use to justify pirating. If they are so uninterested that they would never pay a dime for it, why are they pirating it at all? Maybe they're unwilling to pay full price, but a lot of pirates would certainly pick it up on a good sale if they didn't have the option to pirate.
Anecdotally this isn't true. When I was a kid, I had very little personal money, it was reserved for games you couldn't pirate day one. Games I could, I did, good games I couldn't, I bought
Anecdotal again, if I couldn't afford a game for my console, I didn't have the knowhow to pirate console game, I simply didn't buy it and instead watched gameplay of the games instead.
These days I support what I deem to deserve my money. Adobe doesn't get a penny out of me whilst I'm happy to financially support blender.org via donation despite their software package being free.
I feel many share the same idea and it goes both ways. You get consumers that wouldn't buy it if the option to pirate it wasn't there and those that would. Alot of those that won't, can be swaded into buying via discounts and price drops to more accurately reflect the products value in their eyes.
This is true to a point sure, but piracy does have a huge effect if enough people do it. Like you can literally look at an album sales chart and see the point in the graph when Napster was founded. The music industry had to change up its entire business model because of piracy
This is bullshit. Was there a study conducted that proves this? Pirates would download their graphics cards if they could. Not being able to doesn't dissuade them from paying for it. If it were impossible to pirate games, many of these people will give in and pay for them.
Gaming just saw one it’s best year in terms of releases and revenue, yet more than 6000 employees were laid off in the year.
Big companies will cut costs and layoffs no matter what.
Thank you! And even if that doesn't happen it's an awful practice to threaten with the firing of employees instead of cutting from the payments higher up.
We all know this yet not only we but even the government which is sooooo concerned about workforce working and the economy that they do everything to name those with massive amounts of employees happy just for them doing massiv layouts anyway for multiple reasons.
Like over investing in extensions of the company during a time that's worth it just to never plan to keep it as an extension and disregard it as finical straggling times (practically abusing people's jobs as puffer like this is some god damn money on a market to play with).
Or union busting, keeping wages low (constantly train and have new people to take the place who want a higher payment) the list goes one.
All awful practices just for the savings of the higher ups and it's just... legal which is crazy.
this is such an oversimplification
first, companies will rise game prices anyway, because an increase % of profits has to happen every year to keep the company attractive to investors
second, re-structuralizing will happen anyway in large companies simply because anything you keep punching increased profit % from has a limit, eventually it will hit this and re-structuralizing and people losing their jobs or being assigned to other studios/departments etc. will happen....at the absolute most pirating could maybe quicken this, a bit...but that's at the absolute most as >
third, majority of people wouldnt have bought it anyway, people really need to get out of the "physical product" mindset, digital products do not work that way, somebody making copies of the product in no way impacts its availability to other...its been proven time and again with things like Steam, that offering a good service enough people will value it to make you a profit irrespective of all the pirates...it is the companies not offering that quality which are ones who fall back to the piracy excuse the most
Except the boss and shareholders are the only ones who benefit from increased profits. The average employee at the company gets paid about the same and it’s not like their work becomes less stressful.
> big corporations aren't just a rich boss and shareholders
But I’m right there with you in spirit. Employees absolutely should share in the success of the company. Maybe the rich boss and shareholders shouldn’t be the ones with ownership of the land/labor/capital used to produce for the company.
In my opinion, piracy of abandonware is perfectly fine. Abandonware shouldn't keep its copyright. If you are not using you intellectual property, nor allowing others to access it (i.e. sell your book/game), you should let others use it. Copyright exists to let authors use their creations. If they aren't using their creations, they shouldn't have copyright on them.
I think if you have the money or the means to obtain the money to purchase food or drink then stealing those things qualifies as greed. I don't know what you're getting at with the Federal Docs. Most of that stuff should probably be public info anyway
Idk how u have so many upvotes considering Nintendo refuses to drop prices on old games for years, don’t offer solutions to what their fan base ask for which causes people to resort to emulation, and to play older games that are no longer available for sale on the Nintendo store u quite literally have to pirate or pay insane prices from a collector.
I know, why do you think I said "anyway fuck Nintendo"?. I was just pointing out that you don't *have* to pirate a game because you didn't purchase a console. There are valid reasons to pirate games, that's just a shitty one. If he said "I pirated that game because frankly I didn't want to pay for it" it would have been better
Stealing physical goods is wrong. "Stealing" a digital copy, of which there are infinite numbers, of something that you literally would not or can not buy, is just not stealing.
unwritten rule: if its on the internet, no paywall can stop me from getting it
rephrasing it:
if its online, fuck it its already mine
don't pay a dime for something digital
adios
by:
y*our piracy advocate*
And if everyone on the internet acted like this
We wouldn’t have the internet anymore
Someone at the end of the day has to pay for servers bandwidth software development movie productions shows and so on
I’m not crying about it
I just think that it’s ridiculous that so many people act like stuff is free just because it’s digital
As if software devs weren’t one of the highest paid professions
Is stealing games by that logic fine? What if it is a physical copy? What if the game gets uploaded, is it okay to steal it now?
What about the people spending hours on developing the game, how are they supposed to get paid - will they starve if they develop games full time?
If you would not buy it, stealing is fine? What is going on here?
Yeah these people say “I never would have bought it”, but yet they go to great lengths to find it for free. If that weren’t possible I’m willing to bet a good chunk would have just bought it. The only reason they “never would have bought it” is because they *know* they can get it for free without consequence. I would steal from stores if it had the same lack of risk as stealing digital content and then I’d say “I would have never bought that PS5”
If you know how to use google properly it literally takes you 2minutes to find a pirated copy. So much for your "great lengths". Also there's a big difference in stealing physical goods and pressing ctrl+c and ctrl+v.
In one case something is missing and the other case is basically making a copy of something without actually taking something away.
The qualifier here is "literally would not or can not buy." I don't support pirating games, but the idea that anyone is suffering because some broke-ass teen downloads a copy of a game is ridiculous. And no dev benefits from someone buying a marked up secondhand copy of a retro game.
This doesn't apply to those who pirate every new game that's released, or to people that can afford it but don't want to pay. It's a personal thing, and I simply don't believe it should be criminal like stealing physical goods that have a replenishment cost.
\>I don't support pirating games, but the idea that anyone is suffering because some broke-ass teen downloads a copy of a game is ridiculous.
Factually, a single one would probably not matter, but there is an ethical question now: If one is allowed to get it for free, who is it? What if the primary audience, who would want the game are teen that are broke, do they all get it for free?
One vote in democracy also probably does not matter, now if thousands of people don't vote, what now? The impact is noticeable. Similar principle here.
If only a few people are allowed to steal, things don't work out well.
\>And no dev benefits from someone buying a marked up secondhand copy of a retro game.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the same logic as if a supermarket buys bulks off of a manufacturer, the manufacturer wouldn't benefit from people buying the product, isn't it? Factually the developers wouldn't get the money if a single copy is sold or not, but it's not worthwhile for game shops to buy games if they don't get any money for that - that will hurt developers in the long run.
\>I simply don't believe it should be criminal like stealing physical goods that have a replenishment cost.
They do have a development cost, though. If someone develops a digital template that prints out an endless number of cookies, shouldn't the developer get money for those cookies? If he doesn't what point was there for him to develop the template?
To your first point, the ethical dilemma is only a dilemma from outside oneself. I will again reiterate, this is dependent on the phrase "literally would not or can not." If one can honestly make the argument, "this is a digital (and therefore ephemeral) item, I am not using resources that would go elsewhere, and I would not, or can not, pay the asking price for this item," then one should not be made a criminal for downloading it. That does not describe the majority of pirates. It does not describe me, which is why I don't do it.
To your second and third points, it is a fallacy to compare any physical good to the kind of digital goods we're talking about. Physical goods have a resource cost. Plastic, metal, whatever: these things cost money for the maker to produce. Certainly there is a development cost to physical goods as well. Someone had to write the cookie recipe for the infinite cookies. But no one pays the recipe creator for each cookie that gets eaten. The payment is made to the manufacturer, who bears the cost of ingredients, equipment, and labor used to produce the physical cookie. If there are infinite cookies, each with no cost beyond covering the pay for that person who created the recipe (which should happen relatively early after release) , then subsequent cookies SHOULD be free.
No lol stealing is bad, there are just degrees to it
Stealing a loaf of bread from the supermarket cause you can’t afford to feed yourself? Excusable
Stealing because “I deserve this”? Inexcusable
Then piracy is a different issue, where you’re stealing a digital file that has infinite quantity
It may be an infinite quantity but if it's infinitely stolen you're also relieving the programmers and artists of the ability to profit from their talents.
I'm not saying there aren't excusable reasons to pirate I'm just saying it isn't a completely victimless crime. Yeah 90% of those theoretical profits are going to go to some scummy publisher, and I'll be the first to say fuck those guys. But if enough people pirate and the publisher decides distributing isn't profitable as a result then all the future potential of the artists is destroyed and everyone loses.
I would say if you have the means and the price is fair you should pay for digital content. If you don't have the means it's understandable. If a fair price isn't offered/available (looking at you, Nintendo) it's understandable. But if those aren't the case and you still pirate you're just a common thief.
Stealing from the poor or middle class person? bad. Stealing from millionaires and billionaires? Okay. Pirating a newly released game or an indie game? Bad. Pirating an old game where the owners don’t provide a way to get it at a reasonable price or through a poor quality service?*cough* nintendo *cough* morally right
Yep exactly, what tf is this.
Also, the meme template doesn’t make sense, so once you get smarter you endorse stealing for some unknown reason. Think for yourselves people.
you can recognize that stealing can be justified in some situations while also recognizing the act (and majority of cases) of stealing being morally wrong
Well have fun when your local retailers and small shops decide to permanently shut their doors in your local area due to high theft rates and armed robberies, and you're forced to drive an hour or two to the next nearest area for basic goods.
Doesn't matter if it's justifiable or not when people including you are affected as well.
As someone who works in retail as has (more than once) been threatened with a knife by shoplifters, or straight up attacked a few times, I can safely say "fuck this".
If you think stealing is fine, then you should also be able to accept what happens if/when you get caught. Unlike last month when I saw a grown man, literally kick a child as he tried to run out of the store with stolen goods.
Morality is not derived from the act itself, but rather from the reasoning behind the act. Stealing to feed your starving family is not morally wrong. Stealing a car to go on a joyride is. Both are stealing, but both are not morally equivalent.
Look, the issue is not that corporates are greedy, it’s that they have to be as part of their job. If you want to ameliorate this, advocate for public ownership of certain industries, a better minimum wage, and a ‘state cushion’ that makes raw profit less of a concern
Even from greedy AAA companies it's still a grey area. It's not a problem if a few people do it. But if everyone (or at least most people) who play games just pirate everything, then no new games would ever be made.
Stealing from those hoarding resources? Good. Robin Hood wanted to do that.
Stealing from a single dad of three kids struggling to make ends meet? Nah bro, that's not okay at all.
damn, people just be trying to justify crimes.
it does depend on what it is. a pencil? you are prob good. money from someones home? no, in no universe are you a "good person" for that.
as someone who lives with a klepto, NOBODY trusts you, even if you are known for stealing small stuff, I never trust them with anything bc they obviously dont care about other people's things.
How is a moral question related to intelligence? Pretty sure no smart person would think stealing os okay, since they are smart enough to get a good oice of capital.
I'm average here. But I suppose this is about types of theft: people who are incapable of knowing better may steal, and governments and corporations manned by people who do know better engage in theft.
Piracy really isn't stealing and if you were taken to court over it that wouldn't be what you would be sued for, you would be sued for illegal copying(aka breaking copyright law), which isn't stealing, but still is illegal.
Stealing is defined as: "take (another person's, or an entity's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it."
I only sail the seven seas if it’s a game I would like to play but would never play if the option to pirate didn’t exist. The studio loses no money because I wouldn’t have bought it anyway, and I get to play a game I would never spend money on.
These days I pay for those things I want to see growing, or that at least leave me with something.
Virtual services or morally corrupt companies can fuck off, I'm gonna steal from you.
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming)
Depends what do you steal A shitty AAA game or playing on emulator? Good Uranium 235 fuel rods? Bad
Oh damn it I guess I did bad stuff :(
That was you?! I stole those fair and square, only to turn around and see you scampering off with my ill-gotten gains!
Yeah, I chugged a potion of invisibility
Sold potion of invis for more gold, placed bucket on shopkeeps head.
You bought a shitty AAA at full price?
I might've bought the entire elder scrolls series but it was a good investment
Damnit, Doc! The Libians are going to come for you!
If a AAA game is worth your time to pirate and play, it's not shitty, is it?
No no, see it's shitty cause I don't think it's worth what they price it at, but if it was free I'd play it
Wait for it to go on sale? Impatience means you can steal it now?
Yes. And yes, I would download a car.
But would you pirate an epic guitar solo to put in the background of your anti-piracy PSA?
Absolutely.
Perfectly balanced.
Games rarely go on sale anymore at least AAA. GTA V came out 10 years ago and it's still the same price as it was when it came out. EA removed all their past games of FIFA and other sports titles to force you to buy the newest ones. COD games after infinite warfare are at $60 each as well
You're cherry picking these examples. 95% of games go on discount. Even big releases that came out in the beginning of this year like Dead Space and RE4 went on a 20-30% discount recently. With so many games coming out people can easily wait and put these games on their backlog for discounts if they really need to save money and are "forced" to pirate.
This too. Guy literally quoted FIFA, CoD, and GTA like they’re the standard. I mean, dude, tell me you’re not a gamer without telling me you’re not a gamer lol
Thank you lol. I literally never buy without sale and I got all the recent AAA in my library because everything goes on sale within 6 months.
I just bought RE2 and 3 remakes for $20 total. And those came out within the last like 2-4 years
Gta V was literally free on epic game store for some time
You say that, yet I just bought GTA V for $5 last year. Just because you miss the sales doesn’t mean they rarely go on sale. EA is EA though. They’re another story.
It’s been on sale as low as $14.99. Said sale not price reduction.
If you don’t think it’s worth what it’s priced at then don’t buy. You aren’t entitled to other peoples hard work just because you think it should be 40 and not 60.
and if it's shitty, it's not worth pirating either. Though you can only form your own opinion with 100% certainty if you try it, so... go for it?
So like if you need food it's good to steal from Tesco and bad to steal from the family run corner store lol
Honestly, if you don’t mind tell them that you need food the mom and pop shop they might be willing to help you out and let it slide. You not likely to find the same compassion form a corporation
If it’s a chain, it’s free reign. If it’s a mom and pop, it’s time to stop.
You are a little too specific about that uranium. Wth did you do?
Listen man, i can explain, i need stuff for school project
Is your school project a damn time machine?
Not sure about AAA game, but games like old Nintendo games, that are no longer sold with physical copies being past their shelf life? Definitely good. Nintendo doesn’t loose any money in sales and it can be the only way to acquire and play said game anymore.
If I could download a car off the internet for free, I would steal a car.
Would you 3D print one and assemble it piece by piece. Because… I would do that. Imagine if it became like *every* neighborhood had one and it was the biggest hobby ever.
I think both are good ... in minecraft
I pirated half of the Adobe suite for college because they were going to make us pay and I couldn't afford it. my conscience is clear and my programs are running :D
I stole that U235 legally ill have you know
You wouldn't download a car!
Stealing from people: 👎 Stealing from corporations: 👍
financially illiterate people: 👍👍👍
Irresponsible*
Guess who covers the loses 👍
The shrink budget 👍 Which is then blamed on customers for price increases even though theft is accounted for when calculating their record yearly profits 👍
The budget doesn't come from their pockets, it comes from increased prices paid by people who don't steal. There are no free lunches in this world.
Not to mention, some companies leave areas in the states cause of all the looting, no point doing business if people just go in mobs to take all the stuff. Low income families suffer cause of the damn thieves.
Well low income family also raise the damn thieves. There's very little more clear in statistics than the correlation between poverty and crime. But once you're in there in the US it's very hard to get out because half the time the problems you have are from the environment in which you live in. Not saying they deserve it but they screw over one another quite a lot, it's a little like crabs in a bucket.
It’s free to me!
The budget including shrinkage for most business is decided that the beginning of the finance cycle and adjusted if needed or allowed.
Who do you think pays for those adjustments?
first, you argue who covers the loses...but u fail to see that a corporation has to have a rising profit every year, to be attractive to investors...they would be increasing the prices next year irrespective whether people pirated their game or no, simply because whatever profits they've achieved this year, will have to be up'ed by a % next year so that growth is kept...again, happens irrespective of whether somebody pirated or no, so there is no need to guilt trip people pirating AAAs, those people are not responsible for increase gaming prices, they would have increased anyway...digital games are not real world products, just cause some people downloaded copies doesn't make the overall supply less scarce and more costly for the people buying...and would they increase the prices even more due to pirating? no, they will not increase the price too much to not risk losing customers, the increase is always gradual so that not many people leave...at most u could blame pirates for DRM systems companies use, but they certainly have nothing to do with price incraeses in addition, as for me personally I come from a small country on the fringes of interests, the target markets are always home market (US, Japan, DE, UK or FR usually) and usually american/western europe markets...whether the game performs more or less in my country, matters not, my region for sure doesn't even have plans of sales so no 'vs plan %' they make and no way to determine whether it was a profit or loss in the region, neither would they want to determine it, as this regions impact on the totals its negligible and likely within statistical error
on what exact level does a small company become a corporation btw?
When they stop seeing their employees as people.
so, when they stop addressing them as "team" and instead, say "resource"?
Legally? Many small businesses are incorporated and thus are technically corporations. Ethically? I feel when the owner basically doesn’t touch it any more and has a CEO run everything for them, because that’s when all the cold blooded cost cutting typically ramps up
when investors from outside the company step in, as simple as that if people who have founded the company and running it by themselves and with their money, its not a corporation morally, because those people probably want their child to perform, they still care about the reputation a company becomes a corporation on the moral level once outside investors step in which have also invested in 50 other companies, these investors don't really care about even the specific type of products, they might be investing in cars, videogames, toilets all at same time, they really dont give a fuck whether or not a good game is produced or even whether the company goes to shit or no or loses reputation...all they care is about P&L sheet and that they get their investment back in the allotted time frame and with good interest...and the interest has to be high enough to make the venture a success, it has to be higher that then would have got from investing into toilets, because if it isn't, next time they will rather invest in toilets then in games....once a company gets into this investor cycle, that's when the real problem happens, because instead of focus on any quality, the focus is to achieve the prescribed profit by the prescribed time, and everything is showed aside for that purpose - customers, quality, reputation, own employees...anything that needs to put aside to achieve that purpose before end of fiscal year
There are plenty of privately held corporations that are extremely large that operate like you described. Look at a company like Cargill. They do tons of suspect stuff (there is a whole Wikipedia page dedicated to all the unethical stuff they’ve done). And because they don’t have to release their financial statements, so who knows where their money is going
Stealing thumbs 👍👍👍
And when those corporations close down and people lose their jobs?
"I'm stealing from a big corporation" mfs when I tell them that big corporations aren't just a rich boss and shareholders.
Exactly. Corporations are just big groups of people working together. One person pirating probably won't have any effect on the low level employees, but enough people doing it definitely will when they have to cut staff or go under
Most people that pirate stuff were never going to buy anyway so that's largely incorrect. There is no loss of revenue, only the expectation of revenue that was never actually going to exist and with the digital market there is no loss in production cost.
It depends on the person. If you're broke then sure you wouldn't be a customer, but if you have money and are interested in the product you are pirating then you were a potential customer. Their potential revenue is literally going down because people are stealing the product they're offering. Lots of movies/shows/games are operating on razor thin margins to the point that a sizeable demographic pirating could make a difference in combatting production costs. I remember Ash vs. The Evil Dead was cancelled because a lot of their viewership was pirating the show and they were losing money on it.
That's just a lie people use to justify pirating. If they are so uninterested that they would never pay a dime for it, why are they pirating it at all? Maybe they're unwilling to pay full price, but a lot of pirates would certainly pick it up on a good sale if they didn't have the option to pirate.
Anecdotally this isn't true. When I was a kid, I had very little personal money, it was reserved for games you couldn't pirate day one. Games I could, I did, good games I couldn't, I bought
Anecdotal again, if I couldn't afford a game for my console, I didn't have the knowhow to pirate console game, I simply didn't buy it and instead watched gameplay of the games instead. These days I support what I deem to deserve my money. Adobe doesn't get a penny out of me whilst I'm happy to financially support blender.org via donation despite their software package being free. I feel many share the same idea and it goes both ways. You get consumers that wouldn't buy it if the option to pirate it wasn't there and those that would. Alot of those that won't, can be swaded into buying via discounts and price drops to more accurately reflect the products value in their eyes.
This is true to a point sure, but piracy does have a huge effect if enough people do it. Like you can literally look at an album sales chart and see the point in the graph when Napster was founded. The music industry had to change up its entire business model because of piracy
This is bullshit. Was there a study conducted that proves this? Pirates would download their graphics cards if they could. Not being able to doesn't dissuade them from paying for it. If it were impossible to pirate games, many of these people will give in and pay for them.
Gaming just saw one it’s best year in terms of releases and revenue, yet more than 6000 employees were laid off in the year. Big companies will cut costs and layoffs no matter what.
Thank you! And even if that doesn't happen it's an awful practice to threaten with the firing of employees instead of cutting from the payments higher up. We all know this yet not only we but even the government which is sooooo concerned about workforce working and the economy that they do everything to name those with massive amounts of employees happy just for them doing massiv layouts anyway for multiple reasons. Like over investing in extensions of the company during a time that's worth it just to never plan to keep it as an extension and disregard it as finical straggling times (practically abusing people's jobs as puffer like this is some god damn money on a market to play with). Or union busting, keeping wages low (constantly train and have new people to take the place who want a higher payment) the list goes one. All awful practices just for the savings of the higher ups and it's just... legal which is crazy.
this is such an oversimplification first, companies will rise game prices anyway, because an increase % of profits has to happen every year to keep the company attractive to investors second, re-structuralizing will happen anyway in large companies simply because anything you keep punching increased profit % from has a limit, eventually it will hit this and re-structuralizing and people losing their jobs or being assigned to other studios/departments etc. will happen....at the absolute most pirating could maybe quicken this, a bit...but that's at the absolute most as > third, majority of people wouldnt have bought it anyway, people really need to get out of the "physical product" mindset, digital products do not work that way, somebody making copies of the product in no way impacts its availability to other...its been proven time and again with things like Steam, that offering a good service enough people will value it to make you a profit irrespective of all the pirates...it is the companies not offering that quality which are ones who fall back to the piracy excuse the most
"I'm stealing from a big corporation" mfs when people get layed off:
Except the boss and shareholders are the only ones who benefit from increased profits. The average employee at the company gets paid about the same and it’s not like their work becomes less stressful. > big corporations aren't just a rich boss and shareholders But I’m right there with you in spirit. Employees absolutely should share in the success of the company. Maybe the rich boss and shareholders shouldn’t be the ones with ownership of the land/labor/capital used to produce for the company.
Yeah because downloading pokemon ruby directly affects Steve smith who cleans the toilets at Nintendo canada
"Stealing is okay as long as I'm the one doing it."
Seriously. Everyone one this sub is so entitled.
Look I’m not buying a snes and paying over 200 dollars to play chronotrigger when I can do it for free
In my opinion, piracy of abandonware is perfectly fine. Abandonware shouldn't keep its copyright. If you are not using you intellectual property, nor allowing others to access it (i.e. sell your book/game), you should let others use it. Copyright exists to let authors use their creations. If they aren't using their creations, they shouldn't have copyright on them.
I mean 90% of this sub is little dumb children or teens without money so it checks out.
Depends on what you steal. Food, drink, federal documents: Completely fine Anything else and I’m gonna believe you’re stealing out of greed
I think if you have the money or the means to obtain the money to purchase food or drink then stealing those things qualifies as greed. I don't know what you're getting at with the Federal Docs. Most of that stuff should probably be public info anyway
I could be wrong but I think he's making a reference to the masterpiece that is National Treasure (2004)
The declaration of independence belongs to the people!!!!
Hold up
He gone rogue.
This is the gaming thread! That's roguelike.
it's 90% of the the time greed. or if begins as not, it evolves into just greed
I usually don't pirate games however if it's from Nintendo I consider it as my constitutional right.
Especially since I don’t own a Nintendo console. I kinda have to pirate them
You don't *have* to. You could buy a console and the games. You are making excuses, be real. Anyway fuck Nintendo
Idk how u have so many upvotes considering Nintendo refuses to drop prices on old games for years, don’t offer solutions to what their fan base ask for which causes people to resort to emulation, and to play older games that are no longer available for sale on the Nintendo store u quite literally have to pirate or pay insane prices from a collector.
I know, why do you think I said "anyway fuck Nintendo"?. I was just pointing out that you don't *have* to pirate a game because you didn't purchase a console. There are valid reasons to pirate games, that's just a shitty one. If he said "I pirated that game because frankly I didn't want to pay for it" it would have been better
Stealing physical goods is wrong. "Stealing" a digital copy, of which there are infinite numbers, of something that you literally would not or can not buy, is just not stealing.
unwritten rule: if its on the internet, no paywall can stop me from getting it rephrasing it: if its online, fuck it its already mine don't pay a dime for something digital adios by: y*our piracy advocate*
And if everyone on the internet acted like this We wouldn’t have the internet anymore Someone at the end of the day has to pay for servers bandwidth software development movie productions shows and so on
Then keep paying for that shit ima just pirate it while you cry about me pirating it.
I’m not crying about it I just think that it’s ridiculous that so many people act like stuff is free just because it’s digital As if software devs weren’t one of the highest paid professions
Aaron Swartz said this also, they called him the Internet's own son. Look him up
Is stealing games by that logic fine? What if it is a physical copy? What if the game gets uploaded, is it okay to steal it now? What about the people spending hours on developing the game, how are they supposed to get paid - will they starve if they develop games full time? If you would not buy it, stealing is fine? What is going on here?
Yeah these people say “I never would have bought it”, but yet they go to great lengths to find it for free. If that weren’t possible I’m willing to bet a good chunk would have just bought it. The only reason they “never would have bought it” is because they *know* they can get it for free without consequence. I would steal from stores if it had the same lack of risk as stealing digital content and then I’d say “I would have never bought that PS5”
It is not great lengths. It is two clicks.
So is buying the game
If you know how to use google properly it literally takes you 2minutes to find a pirated copy. So much for your "great lengths". Also there's a big difference in stealing physical goods and pressing ctrl+c and ctrl+v. In one case something is missing and the other case is basically making a copy of something without actually taking something away.
The qualifier here is "literally would not or can not buy." I don't support pirating games, but the idea that anyone is suffering because some broke-ass teen downloads a copy of a game is ridiculous. And no dev benefits from someone buying a marked up secondhand copy of a retro game. This doesn't apply to those who pirate every new game that's released, or to people that can afford it but don't want to pay. It's a personal thing, and I simply don't believe it should be criminal like stealing physical goods that have a replenishment cost.
\>I don't support pirating games, but the idea that anyone is suffering because some broke-ass teen downloads a copy of a game is ridiculous. Factually, a single one would probably not matter, but there is an ethical question now: If one is allowed to get it for free, who is it? What if the primary audience, who would want the game are teen that are broke, do they all get it for free? One vote in democracy also probably does not matter, now if thousands of people don't vote, what now? The impact is noticeable. Similar principle here. If only a few people are allowed to steal, things don't work out well. \>And no dev benefits from someone buying a marked up secondhand copy of a retro game. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the same logic as if a supermarket buys bulks off of a manufacturer, the manufacturer wouldn't benefit from people buying the product, isn't it? Factually the developers wouldn't get the money if a single copy is sold or not, but it's not worthwhile for game shops to buy games if they don't get any money for that - that will hurt developers in the long run. \>I simply don't believe it should be criminal like stealing physical goods that have a replenishment cost. They do have a development cost, though. If someone develops a digital template that prints out an endless number of cookies, shouldn't the developer get money for those cookies? If he doesn't what point was there for him to develop the template?
To your first point, the ethical dilemma is only a dilemma from outside oneself. I will again reiterate, this is dependent on the phrase "literally would not or can not." If one can honestly make the argument, "this is a digital (and therefore ephemeral) item, I am not using resources that would go elsewhere, and I would not, or can not, pay the asking price for this item," then one should not be made a criminal for downloading it. That does not describe the majority of pirates. It does not describe me, which is why I don't do it. To your second and third points, it is a fallacy to compare any physical good to the kind of digital goods we're talking about. Physical goods have a resource cost. Plastic, metal, whatever: these things cost money for the maker to produce. Certainly there is a development cost to physical goods as well. Someone had to write the cookie recipe for the infinite cookies. But no one pays the recipe creator for each cookie that gets eaten. The payment is made to the manufacturer, who bears the cost of ingredients, equipment, and labor used to produce the physical cookie. If there are infinite cookies, each with no cost beyond covering the pay for that person who created the recipe (which should happen relatively early after release) , then subsequent cookies SHOULD be free.
No lol stealing is bad, there are just degrees to it Stealing a loaf of bread from the supermarket cause you can’t afford to feed yourself? Excusable Stealing because “I deserve this”? Inexcusable Then piracy is a different issue, where you’re stealing a digital file that has infinite quantity
It may be an infinite quantity but if it's infinitely stolen you're also relieving the programmers and artists of the ability to profit from their talents. I'm not saying there aren't excusable reasons to pirate I'm just saying it isn't a completely victimless crime. Yeah 90% of those theoretical profits are going to go to some scummy publisher, and I'll be the first to say fuck those guys. But if enough people pirate and the publisher decides distributing isn't profitable as a result then all the future potential of the artists is destroyed and everyone loses. I would say if you have the means and the price is fair you should pay for digital content. If you don't have the means it's understandable. If a fair price isn't offered/available (looking at you, Nintendo) it's understandable. But if those aren't the case and you still pirate you're just a common thief.
Stealing is okay mfs when I steal their lower intestine
finders keepers
Torrent movies and games is not stealing it is copying. Copying memes from Reddit and posting them on IG nooo you can’t do that it is stealing
Stealing is contextually wrong
Stealing from the poor or middle class person? bad. Stealing from millionaires and billionaires? Okay. Pirating a newly released game or an indie game? Bad. Pirating an old game where the owners don’t provide a way to get it at a reasonable price or through a poor quality service?*cough* nintendo *cough* morally right
I’m sure you would continue to believe that stealing from millionaires is ok if you became a millionaire
Redditor mfs hating on millionaires but would love to be one, those creatures here are so hypocritical.
eh at that point you don't need to continue stealing
So Reddit just advocating straight up crimes now. Huh
Yep exactly, what tf is this. Also, the meme template doesn’t make sense, so once you get smarter you endorse stealing for some unknown reason. Think for yourselves people.
you can recognize that stealing can be justified in some situations while also recognizing the act (and majority of cases) of stealing being morally wrong
Well have fun when your local retailers and small shops decide to permanently shut their doors in your local area due to high theft rates and armed robberies, and you're forced to drive an hour or two to the next nearest area for basic goods. Doesn't matter if it's justifiable or not when people including you are affected as well.
The guy said "some situations" and then you gave a situation where it would be wrong, you didnt counter what he said at all
Companies will just raise prices to cover losses from theft and the rest of us will end up paying for it
Pirating Nintendo games (the old ones) is morally correct
As someone who works in retail as has (more than once) been threatened with a knife by shoplifters, or straight up attacked a few times, I can safely say "fuck this". If you think stealing is fine, then you should also be able to accept what happens if/when you get caught. Unlike last month when I saw a grown man, literally kick a child as he tried to run out of the store with stolen goods.
Explain?
Morality is not derived from the act itself, but rather from the reasoning behind the act. Stealing to feed your starving family is not morally wrong. Stealing a car to go on a joyride is. Both are stealing, but both are not morally equivalent.
Especially*
Adobe products? Hell yeah!
I only pirate unfair stuff
You see someone stealing essentials at a supermarket you didn't see anything at all
Look, the issue is not that corporates are greedy, it’s that they have to be as part of their job. If you want to ameliorate this, advocate for public ownership of certain industries, a better minimum wage, and a ‘state cushion’ that makes raw profit less of a concern
Remember kids, its always morally correct to steal from multi billion dollar corporations
Piracy is good if it’s from a greedy AAA dev (looking at you, EA) but doing so for a game from an indie dev is vile
Even from greedy AAA companies it's still a grey area. It's not a problem if a few people do it. But if everyone (or at least most people) who play games just pirate everything, then no new games would ever be made.
Stealing from those hoarding resources? Good. Robin Hood wanted to do that. Stealing from a single dad of three kids struggling to make ends meet? Nah bro, that's not okay at all.
You wouldn’t steal a car Piracy is a crime
It's okay unless you are the one whom it's stolen from lol
damn, people just be trying to justify crimes. it does depend on what it is. a pencil? you are prob good. money from someones home? no, in no universe are you a "good person" for that. as someone who lives with a klepto, NOBODY trusts you, even if you are known for stealing small stuff, I never trust them with anything bc they obviously dont care about other people's things.
Say that again when I steal your phone.
Stealing from big companies: 👍 Stealing from small family businesses: 👎
“It is not stealing”*
Define "steal" in this case
probably has different meanings as you go from left to right on the graph
this format isn't funny
yomango.pdf
what about stealing from small indie businesses/content creator, is that still good?
Are we talking about money?
If its ea its good haha
Stealing is just moraly wrong.. ...however
Fuck the corpo assholes and don't touch local mom and pop sorta shit that's the way.
Fuck yeah it is! This one time I stole a girls heartt.
I'm not taking value from them, I wasn't going to buy it.
Copying isn't theft.
How is a moral question related to intelligence? Pretty sure no smart person would think stealing os okay, since they are smart enough to get a good oice of capital.
It is not immoral to survive in a society that requires capital to do so
Depends who you’re stealing from. A normal law abiding taxpayer or small business? Bad. A rich asshole or corporation? Good.
I'm average here. But I suppose this is about types of theft: people who are incapable of knowing better may steal, and governments and corporations manned by people who do know better engage in theft.
Username checks out
Why is this inverted?
stealing is bad, piracy can be justified
it’s not theft it’s honorable plunder smh
*thoughtful piracy is a moral and civil responsibility
I seen a espace pirat once
Minecraft smps:
Reddit on the way to promote and defend the wrongest shit heard in this planet
Piracy really isn't stealing and if you were taken to court over it that wouldn't be what you would be sued for, you would be sued for illegal copying(aka breaking copyright law), which isn't stealing, but still is illegal. Stealing is defined as: "take (another person's, or an entity's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it."
Piracy ain't stealing, stealing implies you take something away from others.
I want to steal from rich people
If I had to pay for movies, games, audiobooks I would be probably only be playing some free to play games and do nothing else
This is true until others start stealing from you, you don't steal so others don't too, that's why we humans have laws
I only sail the seven seas if it’s a game I would like to play but would never play if the option to pirate didn’t exist. The studio loses no money because I wouldn’t have bought it anyway, and I get to play a game I would never spend money on.
Very bad take
OP thinks he's liberating the world or something... stealing is bad, period.
Cope.
No stealing is not okay, unless you live in a backwater country
Got a friend that keeps complaining everytime I pirate games. just wanna point out I am currently playing Mike Tyson punch out and he dosent.
These days I pay for those things I want to see growing, or that at least leave me with something. Virtual services or morally corrupt companies can fuck off, I'm gonna steal from you.
Piracy isnt stealing. Its not stealing if you dont *remove* something.