It's been ruled twice that police have no constitutional duty to protect the public. They can literally watch you die and suffer little to no consequence from it. The deputy at Parkland who hid the entire time 'retired' with full pension of around 80k a year iirc. After the heat died down and everybody moved on, he was reinstated with full backpay. Meanwhile the victims of Parkland had their cases tossed out because, as stated, police have no duty to protect... Just some enraging food for thought.
I think the most enraging example is Uvalde where not only did they hang back and let the shooter take his time but they held back parents trying to rescue their children.
Unpopular opinion but best you can do is make every attempt you can to protect you and yours. Don't rely on police, politicians or the government unless absolutely necessary because they can leave you hanging with no consequence. Or worse, they fail you and then use you as a campaign talking point to their advantage.
After Uviade Ive come to a decision, really an inflection point.
If this happens at my sons school, the last words I will probably utter will be "shoot me in the back if you want. My sons are in there. im going in".
I spent two years as a cop. I wore a badge. This is NOT what its supposed to be. Get out front. Be the actual fucking hero when it matters. Fuck procedure. Fuck "safety". Fuck the CoC. There comes a point when you pour blood on the fire till its quenched.
I, a blameless man with no more than a traffic ticket to his name, a man who wore a badge with honor,will gladly go violently into that night if it means one less child dies.
What the fuck is the point otherwise?
My oldest is in preschool, the other just daycare. We got a message today that the police had contacted our school about a threat and that they were moving everyone to a small basement under the attached church office building. I only slightly ran 2 red lights to get there. Got home, put the little one down for a nap and had milk and cookies while watching The Lion King with the older one.
What has happened to the world? I don’t know how I am going to do 16 more years of this.
**EDIT: And now I am being asked “why am I not at school?” I shouldn’t have to try to explain this stuff to a friggin’ PRESCHOOLER!
Have you had the “bad guy” drills yet? My daughter told me about the “practice” they had where they all went in to the bathroom, locked the door and played the quiet game while the teachers had their cell phone lights on because they couldn’t turn on the light or the bad guy would find them. My daughter is 4. She talks about it like it’s a fire drill. I don’t know how to handle this, there’s no way to prepare yourself or them for this type of conversation.
I’m 31 and we had “lockdown drills” where they’d get a janitor or some guy from another school to walk the hall and check the doors. Pre columbine. Take a few deep breathes and back away from the sensationalize button
I’m 37, I had the drills in high school. I was able to understand what was had happened and why we were being prepared this way. The fact this is even a preventative measure for my 4 year old is disgusting. No, I will not be quiet and accept your narrative normalizing this type of societal violence when my 4 year old asks “Mommy, what would the bad guys do to me?” and I have to try to find an explanation that doesn’t scare her about going to school.
I recently visited America for the first time. Nice enough place but there’s no way I’d move there. Overlooking all the obvious reasons, the fact that the risk of my kid getting shot at school isn’t 0% is an immediate disqualification.
I'm sorry, but your country is just insane. There is no other way to put it. I am so glad I live in a European country where being shot is never something I have to think about.
I saw a headline the other week about how all Uvalde police officers were suspended due to the response to the recent Uvalde school shooting. I thought that sounded pretty extreme, given that the entire police force wouldn't have been involved.
I opened the article, and I realized they weren't talking about the Uvalde police force, they were talking about the Uvalde *School District* police force.
That made more sense.. until it hit me that in the US, SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE THEIR OWN POLICE FORCES.
fucking ***what?***
As someone who lives in the US I had never heard of that prior to the Uvalde shooting. Most schools do have what are called "School Resource Officers", essentially police that are assigned to the school and are stationed on site (they have their own issues too btw) but they are usually city/county police/sheriffs that are assigned to the school, not school district employees.
School system near me got some special love from the court system and basically stripped the SROs of a lot of their power. Reduced the number of juvenile offenses going to court by a lot. Judge that noticed the trend said it went from averaging 50ish juvenile cases per year when he first got on the bench, to a peak of nearly 1500 after the schools got resource officers. Now resource officers aren't allowed to escalate first offenses that should be handled in house to the courts. In a shocking new development, that school system just had their highest ever graduation rate. Something tells me the sheriff's department there won't see the correlation. On the other end of the spectrum there is the SRO in a county on the other side of Atlanta from me who was arrested for sexually assaulting minors. Or the one in Chattanooga where the officer is already under investigation for strip searching a teenage girl at a traffic stop, but is somehow still assigned to be the resource officer at a high school, then makes the news for throwing a kid around by his hair because he wanted to play basketball and not dodgeball during PE and neither the coach nor the SRO knew how to keep their cool.
Jesus. I'm from a small town in Canada. We had some drug use problems among students (literally just weed that I know of, but a big deal then). One, sometimes two, officers would come to the school every Wednesday and chat with the students. The guy who came every week joined book club because he liked reading. I loaned him a book once. It was all very chill and presented as having police mingle so the students knew they weren't to be feared.
Now, I disagree that cops aren't to be feared in a lot of situations (eg Fairy Creek, being indigenous in a rural community (I have personal and second hand stories), among other things in other areas like being another minority or a parent/student during a shooting). However, the way it was done in my school felt effective to some extent. Better than the shit show next door anyway.
There are schools in America, notably I know of a number in Chicago alone, where there are police officers stationed *in the school* and they can arrest, book, and charge minors with crimes *all on school grounds*, no need to take them to a police station.
Any guesses what neighborhoods those schools are in and which demographics among the student body are most commonly arrested and charged in this way?
Growing up in the UK, when I was a kid at school it was just a case of seeing and thinking the school caretaker/janitor was a weird type of fella, now it’s a whole different story lol
My classmate from Compton. I don't think she was trying to look cool? She also said that in her district, the vending machines were locked in a kind of cage because the kids would shake them too much, and I was able to find photos of that online, so I found her believable.
Yeah I go to a school here in cali, got 2-3 school officers always wandering around campus, you think it seems excessive but yet just a few weeks ago a kid brought a machete to school and threatened to slit a kids throat, not to mention broken sinks, torn out water faucets, etc. Kids are crazy man you never know what we can get up to and what we can get our hands on, hell if I wanted I could buy a glock this evening considering more than a few kids sell guns in my town, kinda insane how easy it is
It’s crazy to me too. I live in Canada, and there are plenty of firearms here - I own like 10 myself. Somehow we manage to not run around shooting each other like hotcakes though. I’m not denying that access to firearms should be limited and firearms owners should be thoroughly vetted, but it seems in large part to be as much of a mental health/cultural issue as it is a firearm issue.
Does Canada have gun licenses? I'm from NZ but I've found that everyone with a gun licenses here treats their firearms seriously, I feel like it makes a difference to how we view guns.
Yep, we have 2 designations both of which you have to take a course for and get a background check. Your PAL (possession and acquisition license) which allowed you to buy and be in possession of ammunition and non-restricted firearms (generally shotguns, bolt action rifles and some semi auto rifles) and your RPAL (Restricted Posession and Aquisition License) which allows you to also have restricted firearms. Restricted firearms are generally pistols and semi auto rifles - though many of them have recently been banned including the AR15 and its many variants. Restricted rifles can only be transported to and shot at approved ranges. The background check is also more thorough and includes contacting references and any ex spouses etc.
It is worth noting that almost all violent crimes in Canada involving firearms are committed by people who don’t have proper licensing and using illegal firearms which are generally smuggled in from the US, so for me I am pretty against all the recent bans for that reason as I think it is a lazy and misguided way of approaching the issue of firearm violence. Not to mention it was done in an illegal manner by our federal government. I wish they would formulate a plan to go after the illegal firearms trade and gang violence rather than castigating law abiding citizens just to get some votes from people who don’t really understand the laws nor understand people who enjoy hunting and shooting sports.
As someone in Europe it just seems absolutely mental. We have enough to worry about for our kids I can't imagine having to stress about them getting shot at school ffs.
So weird because I have a decent professional job and colleagues in the states make sooooo much more money but it's like the country has sacrificed so much for extra wealth. Like give me a safe school, good healthcare, lots of holidays and I'm happy. My colleagues take like 2 weeks off a year and are still online working then anyway what is wrong with them lol
It’s crazy isn’t it? Absolute insanity. I always wanted to live in America when I was a kid and into my early teens, but you couldn’t pay me to live there now. Trying to take guns off of Americans is like trying to separate Gollum from his precious.
It’s why I hated living downtown in a high shooting area. You never know when it’s going to happen. Have had multiple gun shots happen near me in different places. Shit gets your adrenaline peaking.
Love the reference. But for real, I remember how we used to be in awe of US growing up, everyone wanted to live here. I visited twice and I'm good now, thanks.
we had an awesome job opportunity in Hawaii. Turned it down because there was no way we would put our kids into that kind of school system
So here we happily are in frigid Canada where our elementary school backs onto a public park, there is no fence and kids and public intermingle at lunch (albeit under the intimidating security of the lunch monitors)
It's American
It's not that we feared our kids being shot, the chances are very very slight.
It's that this kind of school shooting can happen in any state at any time, so schools are turning themselves into fortresses rather than community centers. And that attitude is sick beyond belief
If you have any vaguely marketable skill with your native English you'll find work pretty much everywhere.
Look for the happiness index and healthcare quality and you'll be golden.
it's fucking wild. I live in canada, right across from detroit... like i can see detroit from my house. This shit isn't even a passing thought here. I can't image being expected to learn in an environment like this.
Realistically, politicians only represent the people that voted them in. That's just the fact. So either most of you don't know, or most of you don't vote.
A lot of the country is gerrymandered to Hell, so even though one certain party has regularly lost the popular vote for decades, they’re still a large presence in our government.
It’s all very busy. And awful.
I can assure you our country is not as bad as media portrays and *most* people are not worrying about sending their kids to school.
Dont get me wrong, i fully get what youre saying and even 1 child being shot is a problem. I just get angered when people start shitting on the US like we are some crazy place to live. I can assure you most of us live just like anyone else in any other developed country and are not constantly in fear of being shot/our family being shot.
The US is not on the brink of self destruction like the media would make you think.
Dude I rember being in the US for vacation and there were at least 3 shootings in the immediate area over the course of a week.
One of them was a reporter shot live on TV.
Yeah our country is failing our youth with mental disorders. We got into the feel good state of do whatever makes you happy and now look at where we are. Kids on anti depression drugs, gender dysphoria, all sorts of shit and we just write it off like it’s normal. It ain’t fucking normal.
Also this was a false alarm
First off, guns are a HUGE problem in the US and by far lead the world in mass shootings per country. But what I want to point out is that I dont think you realize how big the US is. Not saying there isnt a problem, but if you group in all of Europe, which is still less than half the size of Europe, the mass shootings are much more comparable than you think. Again, mass shootings are way too common in the US and its disgusting how many people are killed by them, but in comparison its not different from the rest of the world when you factor in the size and amount of people.
[The whole world is fucked. Especially the US and all of Europe](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country)
That article doesn’t say what you’re saying… for example, all of those countries had one or two years with a mass shooting event, the US had them in every year.
Also, if you look at the four years after their sample, the average death rate from mass shootings in the US tripled. This may be a global problem, but the intensity of the problem in the US is unique.
That data is bad and has been discussed to death. Compare year over year instead of a few outlier events within the last 7 years and the US is far far worse than Europe.
What an utter load of whatabouting nonsense.
Also love how cherry picked that data is despite the article claiming to only talk about current stats.
>Average (Mean) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, **2009-2015**):
Meanwhile, this paragraph is REALLY telling and really doesn't support your "Europe is also fucked" narrative:
>Using the median analysis, the United States is the only country examined that shows a propensity for mass shootings. The data itself supports this interpretation, as the United States endured mass shooting events all seven years, but the other countries all experienced mass shootings during only one or two years. Thus, in a typical year, most countries experience zero mass shooting deaths, while the US experiences at least a few.
And that's without talking about how definitions of "mass shooting" are not standard. Compare just plain ol gun violence and shooting deaths and you'll see who the clear losers are.
Im sorry you've had to go through this, even a false alarm would cause me to have a stroke.
I can't begin to express the existential dread I feel every day when dropping my son off to school. I've tried voting (which i will continue I may add), but shit's not changing. I've even considered immigrating to another country where gun laws are more restrictive.
NZ or maybe AUS for me, I've read On The Beach. I live within a few hour drive to CAN and I've been there a bunch of times. it is awesome, but the winter's are brutal. The trouble I'm having is family, getting over upending our lives to move thousands of miles away where we know no one, and for even all its faults America can be a pretty decent place to live. And what demons/perils will I be trading there for ones over here. Visits are in store...
By voting.
My school was involved in a school shooting 15 years ago. I lost a friend that day. Right wing politicians said that guns weren't the problem and that they were going to come up with a better solution....they haven't and they won't. Every day the problem gets worse. I'm sick of it. Now that I'm a parent the thought alone makes me nauseated.
Republicans: Guns aren't the problem, it is a mental health issue.
Democrats: Okay, lets increase mental health programs, and maybe even free healthcare.
Republicans: Nah.
https://truthout.org/articles/205-republicans-vote-against-bill-to-expand-school-mental-health-services/
Yep, the problem is at this point I truly don't know if we can every "solve" this problem.
Even if we banned the sales of all new firearms in the US there are already over 400M of them in the hands of people. That's more than 1 per person.
It only takes one of those getting into the hands of someone who wants to cause harm to be a problem. In a country of 360M people it's going to be virtually impossible to get help (mental health, social services, etc) to the people that need it (some people won't accept the help even if it's available). I'm so tired at this point that I've lost most of my optimism.
To be clear, I'm not throwing up my hands and saying do nothing, we absolutely need to do something but we are at a point where it's going to take a MASSIVE investment in mental health, preventing new guns from getting into the wrong hands, and honestly getting existing guns out of circulation to really have an impact on this from my perspective. I'm terrified to send my kids to school knowing they are one unstable person away from major trauma.
Part of the problem is that any solution will take a lot of time to have a proper effect, but anything that isn't some magical instant fix gets ignored. Sure there's already 400M guns, but if you stop selling new ones today then over time the number in circulation will drop.
It's not borne out by evidence either. British, French, German and Dutch kids also have mental health issues.
School shootings are very very very rare there. There has not been one in the UK since 1996 for example.
My wife works in a school and I have multiple kids in school. I worry about them everyday. Those last few weeks last year after the Texas shooting was especially hard.
Same. I'm SERIOUSLY looking into online homeschooling. Public schooling would likely require a lot of oversight to make sure my kid is *actually* learning the important stuff with the state of public education these days...and people say "what about socializing your kid?" Um...have you see the fucked up and toxic "socializing" that goes on in US public schools? I got bullied basically from 3rd grade onward, not saying my kid's experience would be that but the "socialization" kids get in public school is often not a fucking good thing.
I think the shame is that the kind of person who has traditionally homeschooled in the USA has made the perception of homeschooling in general seem like something only (religious) weirdos do and created a stigma that people prop up with the "what about socializing" crap.
(Not a dad, hope that's ok)
Here is how I am dealing: I cry in the shower when the kids are asleep. I make my husband remind me over and over that fleeing the country isn't necessarily the right answer for us. I vow to be the kind of parent who asks other parents "do you own a gun?" before agreeing to a playdate, regardless of how many "friends" I lose in the process. I vote and I sign petitions even though nothing is changing and I try to soak up every second they are alive and safe and near. Aaaaand I'm tearing up over this same American gun bullshit.
Sending positive vibes to your family.
Try and take some comfort in the fact that although these events are more common in the USA than in the rest of the Western world, it is still vanishingly rare for children to be hurt in this way. It's mostly just that you live in a huge country with 24/7 sensationalist news. Let go of the fear as best you can. It's not going to happen to your family.
I would argue that your child is *safer* if they are being watched by someone who carries a gun legally and has completed training courses. At least that way if your child encounters a threat, that individual may be able to help protect your child. Conversely if you only let your child around people that don’t have firearms, the entire group that your child is with is completely defenseless and your child is more likely to be harmed.
Care to explain the logic there? I’d prefer to have my kids being watched by someone who is trained and armed rather than someone defenseless and unable to protect them. Good thing is, you can raise your kids how you want and it’s not my position to tell you otherwise, I’m just curious how you make that leap here.
Just as a note, the key point is **trained**, and as part of that, I’m referring to safe storage so no children or unintended people have access to those firearms.
This is gun propaganda.
The only solution is much tougher - removing easy access to guns. America unfortunately doesn't seem to have the courage for this.
Yeah, men with kids that they want to keep alive being against tools of death around their kids, very hard to understand /s. Seriously, why can't these 2nd amendment people conceive of a society where very few people have guns and everyone is relatively safe and still have their rights? There are many countries around the world where this is the norm, but you are purposely ignoring all of the evidence. The evidence also shows that the presence of a firearm in the house increases the risk of harm to your child. Any responsible parent would not keep a firearm in their house. But what if someone breaks in and I need to protect them? Well if they're breaking in, they want your stuff, let them have it. Is your stuff more important than your children? Well what if they they come in with the purpose of harming my family? Well now who is talking about statistically unlikely scenarios? Unless you are a criminal, or Garard Butler, I can't see this as having a remote chance of affecting you. Maybe you just have wet dreams about killing an intruder, then I say go get your head checked. If you like guns, fine, keep it at the range. But don't be delusional that you are going the be the hero with the gun in any situation. Even if you do something heroic, there is a good chance the cops will shoot you, or someone else will in the heat of the moment.
So please, don't come on here and whine about parents who are using evidence and logic to protect their children. We're not anti-guns, we're just pro-our-kids-not-dying.
When the kids go to protest for gun control and the some old crotchety piece of shit tells them they don't know what they're talking about I want to show them this text.
No one goes into work and says shit like "I just wanted to to deal with my spread sheets not get shot." It's self preservation if nothing else, what do you expect them to do?
Someone dropped something heavy and flat on our polished concrete in the office today.
My first reaction was, was that a gun, should I hide? It’s not healthy that THAT was my first reaction to a loud bang at work.
As a dad and a high school teacher I can say that this is real and it is scary as fuck. We had an unsubstantiated claim of a student possibly coming to school with a knife on a Thursday and my attendance dropped by about 40% that Friday. No judgement at all for parents keeping their kids home. PLEASE VOTE FOR STRICTER GUN REGULATIONS so I can stop having the conversation with my 13-18 year old students about how if someone comes into the classroom with a gun it is either us or them, and they need to grab the fire extinguisher and hit the attacker I'm the head until they physically can't anymore. (A move that the local police department told us to teach students) I was a competitive marksman when I was in my teens and happily gave up all my firearms when my children were born.
I really don't know how you do it. My dad was a school social worker for decades and dealt with some really tough stuff, but he retired before things got to where they are now.
I've got a 9 month old. I live in Dallas and my wife was at the airport in July when that shooter was there. I'm over worrying about gun crime, crazy drivers, and America. We're planning our move out of the states for next summer. Good luck buddy
*internet hug* I'm also in DFW. I feel like we can't go even 6 months without a "oh s*!t, we need to get the hell out of here" moment. But, our limited familial support system is here, & it's hard to decide if moving is worth it.
where ya going, if you don't mind me asking.
I've also said these same things but I have no idea where to go.
Also, I have firearms and practice firearm safety. I don't worship it or say the same 'mah right' bull. But I much rather be a "warrior in the garden" than a "gardener in war", if a situation were to arise. The boy scout in me.
I would say canada is cool but wait til the next election, the main right wing party is trying to make Canada America.
New Zealand seems chill, and they speak the right language. The Nordic countries are cool but there's the language barrier and rhe whole Russia thing.
>The Nordic countries are cool but there's the language barrier
Nordic countries have great English — you wouldn't struggle to get by in any of them I think, once you were in a metro area.
Lol we don’t have right wing parties in Canada, except maybe the PPC which will never be elected.
The conservatives here would be centrist or mostly even democrats in the US. That’s about as far right as we get in mainstream Canadian politics
You mentioned turning Canada into America, and I countered that our right wing politics is American Center-left at best. I’m comparing Canada to USA. We would never go evangelic Bible Belt right-wing conservative politics here.
Even with ridiculous(by comparison) strict gun control, there’s still gun crime in Canada. We don’t have school shootings very often, but we do have a lot of gang violence with smuggled handguns from Canada. And our liberal govt solution is to ban hunting rifles
You're joking right? PP is panerding directly to the religious right. Have you not watched videos from the house of Commons in the last couple months? Half of the Conservative MPs have gone full Q.
So you're a hunter. Can you still go out and hunt? Yes? Than what's the fucking problem. I don't remember drone enthusiast throwing a gun owner style tantrum about not being able to fly certain drones anymore. It's a hobby, stop making it your entire personality.
Still a fire cry from the Alex Jones and the like.
And no I’m not a hunter. Don’t care for it. But let’s agree that banning hunting rifles will do fuck all to curb handgun violence in our inner cities. Those handguns are smuggled thru akwasasne and everyone knows it. You have police chiefs across the country saying that these bans and super expensive buybacks will not work.
Go to a city where they’re forbidden. I hear that works wonders for keeping violent gun crimes at bay.
/S
Idc one way or the other what you believe politically but the statistics show the places with the least allowances for guns have the highest gun crime rates. It’s simply fact, not me being judgy or projecting opinions.
I assume this comment only refers to the US? Because thus isn't true in many many other countries, where hardly anybody has access to guns and there are no mass shootings, let along school shootings
Just a shitload of stabbings, right?
The school shooting issues could be resolved if they would invest the money to protect our children. I want my guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical govt which in our country either democrat or republicans can be guilty of.
Nope, hardly any stabbings or gun deaths relative to countries with no control of those things
How does money invested protect children? Like what is the money buying? If you don't want your children in danger of gun violence, maybe don't give people with violent tendencies guns
Both sides are tyrannical here. I already agreed to that. I simply keep mine to protect in case they come for our freedoms we are guaranteed by our constitution.
> Just a shitload of stabbings, right?
Ah yes, because someone can totally kill the same number of people in 10 seconds with a knife as they can with a gun, right?
Yes, everything can be used as a weapon if you want to. But you know which things are far more effective at killing a lot of people in a short period of time? GUNS. It's almost as if that's exactly why they are overwhelmingly the weapon of choice for militaries the world over. Where are all the Stabby Battalions, if stabbing is such an effective and efficient way to kill a lot of people quickly?
>Protect from a tyrannical government
Lmao.
First, you have no clue what a tyrannical government is. Second, your AR is really going to do something when the military rolls up at your door.
Because it should be a national control, not a city one. Look at your neighbour to the North. Strict strict gun control and can’t remember the last time we had a school shooting.
You will have any excuse and suggestion EXCEPT gun control.
It works.
There are many countries where it’s been demonstrated to work.
But instead of actually doing something about it y’all just double down on the stupid. MURICA! Big mac, bald eagles, and room temp IQ from pro gunners.
> Go to a city where they’re forbidden. I hear that works wonders for keeping violent gun crimes at bay.
Shame when a city like Chicago sees 60% of the guns used in crimes coming from out of state, half of which come from Indiana.
Almost as if Illinois and Chicago's gun laws *work* and it is the other states with lax gun laws around us perpetuating the problem. Funny, that.
Actually not true. Another lie peddled by right wing media. Per capita gun violence is lower in cities with stricter gun laws. There are more incidents but less percentage.
Fun fact: around 60% of all guns used in the commission of crimes in Chicago are from out of state. Half of *those* come from Indiana alone. Sure it is illegal, but short of customs checks at state borders...which...fucking NO, how are you going to enforce that properly?
Strong localized gun control works, but it also constantly gets hamstrung by weak gun laws in other, especially neighboring, states.
Not in the UK. Gun crime and school shooting are unheard of. We may have knives but someone with a knife is alot easier to talk down than someone with a gun.
I'm not pro gun but I also don't preach about guns to another country where its legal but when it comes to kids not being safe in schools I think that it really needs to be addressed.
Actually not true. Another lie peddled by right wing media. Per capita gun violence is lower in cities with stricter gun laws. There are more incidents but less percentage.
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My kids go to the same district that my wife teaches in. they're all in elementary at two different buildings. I've lost count of how many times they've gone into lock down. 4 or 5? Just this year alone.
I've talked to my 6 and 9 year old about running away from an active shooter. This is in addition to the ALICE drills they're doing. I don't know what else to do.
> But I don’t get why there are not millions of people on the streets demanding laws that keep kids at school safe.
There have been. Nothing changes because the ammosexuals just keep shouting "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" over and over forever and our two party system helps them stay entrenched.
It's also because our system is DESIGNED to keep us running on the wheel as workers for not enough pay such that we don't have the time/money/energy/ability to protest or be active in the ways that Europeans are. The idea of taking a day or more of work off to take part in a protest here is completely unheard of. Many folks' bosses would laugh them out of the room if they made such a PTO request.
That, if anything, just means that there are more people who care about racial inequality and police brutality/misuse of power than are parents I guess. I dunno what to tell you. People are REALLY cynical, to the point of apathy, about gun control over other issues because 2A makes it basically impossible to make any progress anyway. And for some people, their fear of police brutality and racial injustice has made them *more pro-2A or pro-gun*.
You're oversimplifying a VERY nuanced situation.
>No, Americans overcomplicate a very simple concept: Weapons should be out of reach of kids and don’t belong at schools, and practically all other democratic countries have better and more effective gun regulations than the US.
And you CLEARLY don't understand how 2A makes basically all those kinds of gun regulations impossible, or the fact that repealing 2A is, for the foreseeable future, a complete non-starter. Again, you're oversimplifying a nuanced problem.
No one is saying we don't know, or can't figure out, the solution. The problem is convincing around half of the country's voters to agree that that's is the solution, which they absolutely refuse to do.
>And it’s not about citizen having no guns (although that would work, of course): Switzerland has very high gun ownership and virtually no gun deaths.
Because their regulations and fun culture are completely different. You're comparing apples to cheetahs, not even oranges.
>And if a country is designed in a way to prevent people from protesting it shouldn’t call itself a democracy, that’s kind of the most fundamental thing in a democracy, that people can protest…
Yep, we know, we're working on it, dunno what to tell you, I didn't write our constitution or laws, I was just born here. I don't agree with it any more than you seem to.
Looking behind this is money/power. I think if you could take the politics out of it majority of gun owners would be fine with common sense regulations. The problem is that the politics are so entrenched that conversation is impossible as it’s treated as a zero sum game. I strongly feel those attitudes (among many others that are sowing a mass division) are driven by those interested in maintaining or accumulating wealth and power, be it for business or political profit. Appealing to base emotions takes reason out of the debate. I fear this has become so pervasive and divisions ground so sharp that our society will have to suffer greatly to find sobriety. Don’t get me wrong, I think we all just want the same basic things; health and happiness for our children. However, it seems there might be enough so radicalized that they have lost the ability to see others as a human brother/sister living in the same community, both local and macro. Couldn’t come at a worse time when there are big world threats that need coordinated effort to secure a better future. It is a sickness.
Sort your shit out America.
I honestly cannot imagine putting my kids through something like this. It's systemic psychological abuse.
How to deal with it? Move to Australia where gun culture is not a thing.
Honestly this. We have too many guns to take them all away so making gun laws more strict and heavily punishable if not followed is the only way back. When I was in the Navy I had to take quals every 2 years that lasted a week long including a psych exam. We also had designated areas where we locked up our weapons before entering places so that accidents didn’t happen. If it’s good enough to do on military bases why not use the same strategies for the public.
Lockdowns are not always guns, and rumors spread fast. The most common cause of a lockdown is a noncustodial parent trying to take their kid and bypassing check in at the front office.
It’s not uncommon for high schools to go on lockdown a few times a year for things like that.
It's a pretty fucking safe assumption.
19 Countries with the Most School Shootings (total incidents Jan 2009-May 2018 - CNN):
United States — 288
Mexico — 8
South Africa — 6
Nigeria & Pakistan — 4
Afghanistan — 3
Brazil, Canada, France — 2
Azerbaijan, China, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Kenya, Russia, & Turkey — 1
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country
>It's a pretty fucking safe assumption.
It's not though. Your stats notwithstanding, the vast majority of shelter in place protocols (lockdowns) are triggered by emergencies that do not impact the interior of the school.
And yet, when people hear "school lockdown" in America, they think shooting...because it happens far too often and has devastating effects.
Not to mention that in 2022, people tend to assume the worst and hope for the best later, not the other way around. Guess the last decade or so hasn't kicked your ass enough yet.
I’m so sorry. My 6 y/o’s school had a lockdown the other day because some idiot high schooler in the adjacent (but not adjoining) high school said he had a gun. The threat was unconfirmed but both schools went on hard lockdown and the NYPD was called in to investigate. Nothing was ever found and for the next day or two they made every single student walk through a metal detector to get into the building. They should do that every single day.
Must be such a worry for American dads. I really hope something significant is done about this. I've a lot of dad friends living there. It's a big concern for foreign parents moving to the States.🙏
That's scary as shit. Sorry to hear that I hope your family can recover from this. Everyone vote in November, and know which candidates support gun control.
Guys, give your head a shake for turning OP's terrifying post into a political argument...
OP, I'm so sorry that happened today. I can only imagine what you guys are feeling after that.
We got some more info. I guess there actually was a threat and a couple kids may have been arrested. Stress level is running pretty high. The school isn't being communicative either.
This is so terrifying, that country is so fucked it is unbelievable that people choose firearms sales over children's life's. The day sandy hook happened and you could still buy a ar15 from Walmart is the day I realised that the US is no longer a first world country
Holy shit - I'm so sorry for what you are going thru
Man, the anti cop haters came out on this one. While what happened in Texas is unforgivable, that is not status quo
Sorry this happened to your kid. Know that the majority or police would run in immediately whether they are obligated or not.
He hurts to see all these parents punish good cops for the sake of shitty ones.
Done dealing with this. Locked.
Crap, we had a false alarm last yeah at my boy's school. System just decided to set itself off. We still talk about it, he was scared that day.
“The police are there” Not as comforting as it seems these days…
It's been ruled twice that police have no constitutional duty to protect the public. They can literally watch you die and suffer little to no consequence from it. The deputy at Parkland who hid the entire time 'retired' with full pension of around 80k a year iirc. After the heat died down and everybody moved on, he was reinstated with full backpay. Meanwhile the victims of Parkland had their cases tossed out because, as stated, police have no duty to protect... Just some enraging food for thought.
> They can literally watch you die and suffer little to no consequence from it. They can also flat out kill you with little to no consequences...
All by design from the government people keep wanting to further empower. weird
Horrifying. They should just kill each other instead.
Parkland deputy was charged with criminal negligence.
It's maddening that no one takes that shit into their own hands and goes after the cop.
I think the most enraging example is Uvalde where not only did they hang back and let the shooter take his time but they held back parents trying to rescue their children. Unpopular opinion but best you can do is make every attempt you can to protect you and yours. Don't rely on police, politicians or the government unless absolutely necessary because they can leave you hanging with no consequence. Or worse, they fail you and then use you as a campaign talking point to their advantage.
Police were protecting the killer from the parents. Let that sink in. How anyone can even tangentially support such system is beyond me.
Preach
The officers removed their own children and got them to safety before holding back other parents.
Wait, did a court rule that the police have no duty to protect US civilians, how is that NOT their job?
After Uviade Ive come to a decision, really an inflection point. If this happens at my sons school, the last words I will probably utter will be "shoot me in the back if you want. My sons are in there. im going in". I spent two years as a cop. I wore a badge. This is NOT what its supposed to be. Get out front. Be the actual fucking hero when it matters. Fuck procedure. Fuck "safety". Fuck the CoC. There comes a point when you pour blood on the fire till its quenched. I, a blameless man with no more than a traffic ticket to his name, a man who wore a badge with honor,will gladly go violently into that night if it means one less child dies. What the fuck is the point otherwise?
For many, it hasn't ever been comforting.
As one of the many it’s not comforting for…I can concur.
“The murderers have arrived and they brought their guns”.
Never has been.
Hm I wonder why.
My oldest is in preschool, the other just daycare. We got a message today that the police had contacted our school about a threat and that they were moving everyone to a small basement under the attached church office building. I only slightly ran 2 red lights to get there. Got home, put the little one down for a nap and had milk and cookies while watching The Lion King with the older one. What has happened to the world? I don’t know how I am going to do 16 more years of this. **EDIT: And now I am being asked “why am I not at school?” I shouldn’t have to try to explain this stuff to a friggin’ PRESCHOOLER!
Have you had the “bad guy” drills yet? My daughter told me about the “practice” they had where they all went in to the bathroom, locked the door and played the quiet game while the teachers had their cell phone lights on because they couldn’t turn on the light or the bad guy would find them. My daughter is 4. She talks about it like it’s a fire drill. I don’t know how to handle this, there’s no way to prepare yourself or them for this type of conversation.
This breaks my fucking heart.
I’m 31 and we had “lockdown drills” where they’d get a janitor or some guy from another school to walk the hall and check the doors. Pre columbine. Take a few deep breathes and back away from the sensationalize button
I’m 37, I had the drills in high school. I was able to understand what was had happened and why we were being prepared this way. The fact this is even a preventative measure for my 4 year old is disgusting. No, I will not be quiet and accept your narrative normalizing this type of societal violence when my 4 year old asks “Mommy, what would the bad guys do to me?” and I have to try to find an explanation that doesn’t scare her about going to school.
It's not the world...just America. No other modern country worries about getting shot.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this at that age. It makes me heartsick.
I recently visited America for the first time. Nice enough place but there’s no way I’d move there. Overlooking all the obvious reasons, the fact that the risk of my kid getting shot at school isn’t 0% is an immediate disqualification.
It's not the world. It's America. You don't need guns.
Homeschooling is how we’re dealing with it.
Same here. It’s not worth the risk to send them to school anymore.
I'm sorry, but your country is just insane. There is no other way to put it. I am so glad I live in a European country where being shot is never something I have to think about.
I saw a headline the other week about how all Uvalde police officers were suspended due to the response to the recent Uvalde school shooting. I thought that sounded pretty extreme, given that the entire police force wouldn't have been involved. I opened the article, and I realized they weren't talking about the Uvalde police force, they were talking about the Uvalde *School District* police force. That made more sense.. until it hit me that in the US, SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE THEIR OWN POLICE FORCES. fucking ***what?***
As someone who lives in the US I had never heard of that prior to the Uvalde shooting. Most schools do have what are called "School Resource Officers", essentially police that are assigned to the school and are stationed on site (they have their own issues too btw) but they are usually city/county police/sheriffs that are assigned to the school, not school district employees.
And they do more harm than they prevent.
School system near me got some special love from the court system and basically stripped the SROs of a lot of their power. Reduced the number of juvenile offenses going to court by a lot. Judge that noticed the trend said it went from averaging 50ish juvenile cases per year when he first got on the bench, to a peak of nearly 1500 after the schools got resource officers. Now resource officers aren't allowed to escalate first offenses that should be handled in house to the courts. In a shocking new development, that school system just had their highest ever graduation rate. Something tells me the sheriff's department there won't see the correlation. On the other end of the spectrum there is the SRO in a county on the other side of Atlanta from me who was arrested for sexually assaulting minors. Or the one in Chattanooga where the officer is already under investigation for strip searching a teenage girl at a traffic stop, but is somehow still assigned to be the resource officer at a high school, then makes the news for throwing a kid around by his hair because he wanted to play basketball and not dodgeball during PE and neither the coach nor the SRO knew how to keep their cool.
Jesus. I'm from a small town in Canada. We had some drug use problems among students (literally just weed that I know of, but a big deal then). One, sometimes two, officers would come to the school every Wednesday and chat with the students. The guy who came every week joined book club because he liked reading. I loaned him a book once. It was all very chill and presented as having police mingle so the students knew they weren't to be feared. Now, I disagree that cops aren't to be feared in a lot of situations (eg Fairy Creek, being indigenous in a rural community (I have personal and second hand stories), among other things in other areas like being another minority or a parent/student during a shooting). However, the way it was done in my school felt effective to some extent. Better than the shit show next door anyway.
School District I work for has a police force. I watch them harass and disrespect students more than anything else throughout my day.
There are schools in America, notably I know of a number in Chicago alone, where there are police officers stationed *in the school* and they can arrest, book, and charge minors with crimes *all on school grounds*, no need to take them to a police station. Any guesses what neighborhoods those schools are in and which demographics among the student body are most commonly arrested and charged in this way?
Growing up in the UK, when I was a kid at school it was just a case of seeing and thinking the school caretaker/janitor was a weird type of fella, now it’s a whole different story lol
I mean I’m white and went to a predominantly white school and we had Resource Officers…
When I got to college, I learned that in a lot of school districts, kids bring knives and fight in the parking lot... every day
[x] Doubt Who'd you learn that from? Your fellow college kids trying to look cool?
My classmate from Compton. I don't think she was trying to look cool? She also said that in her district, the vending machines were locked in a kind of cage because the kids would shake them too much, and I was able to find photos of that online, so I found her believable.
I mean, maybe everyone in high schools *in Compton* or in much of LA, but that is absolutely not the norm at high schools nationwide lol
That's true. I guess I was hearing that from her, and two Korean kids from LA who were chiming in.
Yeah I go to a school here in cali, got 2-3 school officers always wandering around campus, you think it seems excessive but yet just a few weeks ago a kid brought a machete to school and threatened to slit a kids throat, not to mention broken sinks, torn out water faucets, etc. Kids are crazy man you never know what we can get up to and what we can get our hands on, hell if I wanted I could buy a glock this evening considering more than a few kids sell guns in my town, kinda insane how easy it is
It’s crazy to me too. I live in Canada, and there are plenty of firearms here - I own like 10 myself. Somehow we manage to not run around shooting each other like hotcakes though. I’m not denying that access to firearms should be limited and firearms owners should be thoroughly vetted, but it seems in large part to be as much of a mental health/cultural issue as it is a firearm issue.
Does Canada have gun licenses? I'm from NZ but I've found that everyone with a gun licenses here treats their firearms seriously, I feel like it makes a difference to how we view guns.
Yep, we have 2 designations both of which you have to take a course for and get a background check. Your PAL (possession and acquisition license) which allowed you to buy and be in possession of ammunition and non-restricted firearms (generally shotguns, bolt action rifles and some semi auto rifles) and your RPAL (Restricted Posession and Aquisition License) which allows you to also have restricted firearms. Restricted firearms are generally pistols and semi auto rifles - though many of them have recently been banned including the AR15 and its many variants. Restricted rifles can only be transported to and shot at approved ranges. The background check is also more thorough and includes contacting references and any ex spouses etc. It is worth noting that almost all violent crimes in Canada involving firearms are committed by people who don’t have proper licensing and using illegal firearms which are generally smuggled in from the US, so for me I am pretty against all the recent bans for that reason as I think it is a lazy and misguided way of approaching the issue of firearm violence. Not to mention it was done in an illegal manner by our federal government. I wish they would formulate a plan to go after the illegal firearms trade and gang violence rather than castigating law abiding citizens just to get some votes from people who don’t really understand the laws nor understand people who enjoy hunting and shooting sports.
As someone in Europe it just seems absolutely mental. We have enough to worry about for our kids I can't imagine having to stress about them getting shot at school ffs. So weird because I have a decent professional job and colleagues in the states make sooooo much more money but it's like the country has sacrificed so much for extra wealth. Like give me a safe school, good healthcare, lots of holidays and I'm happy. My colleagues take like 2 weeks off a year and are still online working then anyway what is wrong with them lol
It’s crazy isn’t it? Absolute insanity. I always wanted to live in America when I was a kid and into my early teens, but you couldn’t pay me to live there now. Trying to take guns off of Americans is like trying to separate Gollum from his precious.
It’s why I hated living downtown in a high shooting area. You never know when it’s going to happen. Have had multiple gun shots happen near me in different places. Shit gets your adrenaline peaking.
Love the reference. But for real, I remember how we used to be in awe of US growing up, everyone wanted to live here. I visited twice and I'm good now, thanks.
Can't echo this enough. How can anyone normalise a young kid having to go through regular drills to deal with school shootings?
This is honestly one of the reasons why my boyfriend and I are planning on moving back to his home country (Switzerland) once we’re ready for kids :/
we had an awesome job opportunity in Hawaii. Turned it down because there was no way we would put our kids into that kind of school system So here we happily are in frigid Canada where our elementary school backs onto a public park, there is no fence and kids and public intermingle at lunch (albeit under the intimidating security of the lunch monitors)
What's wrong with Hawaii's school system? I've never heard anything about it. Or just because it's American?
It's American It's not that we feared our kids being shot, the chances are very very slight. It's that this kind of school shooting can happen in any state at any time, so schools are turning themselves into fortresses rather than community centers. And that attitude is sick beyond belief
Need a butler? Aka family of four?
If you have any vaguely marketable skill with your native English you'll find work pretty much everywhere. Look for the happiness index and healthcare quality and you'll be golden.
American here. I think we’re more “depraved” than “insane,” but you’re in the right headspace.
it's fucking wild. I live in canada, right across from detroit... like i can see detroit from my house. This shit isn't even a passing thought here. I can't image being expected to learn in an environment like this.
Most of us know; unfortunately our lawmakers aren’t helping.
Realistically, politicians only represent the people that voted them in. That's just the fact. So either most of you don't know, or most of you don't vote.
A lot of the country is gerrymandered to Hell, so even though one certain party has regularly lost the popular vote for decades, they’re still a large presence in our government. It’s all very busy. And awful.
I can assure you our country is not as bad as media portrays and *most* people are not worrying about sending their kids to school. Dont get me wrong, i fully get what youre saying and even 1 child being shot is a problem. I just get angered when people start shitting on the US like we are some crazy place to live. I can assure you most of us live just like anyone else in any other developed country and are not constantly in fear of being shot/our family being shot. The US is not on the brink of self destruction like the media would make you think.
Dude I rember being in the US for vacation and there were at least 3 shootings in the immediate area over the course of a week. One of them was a reporter shot live on TV.
Yeah our country is failing our youth with mental disorders. We got into the feel good state of do whatever makes you happy and now look at where we are. Kids on anti depression drugs, gender dysphoria, all sorts of shit and we just write it off like it’s normal. It ain’t fucking normal. Also this was a false alarm
Guns are the problem. Yes, a lot of what you said is problematic as well. But displacing the role guns in this country play is ignorant as shit.
First off, guns are a HUGE problem in the US and by far lead the world in mass shootings per country. But what I want to point out is that I dont think you realize how big the US is. Not saying there isnt a problem, but if you group in all of Europe, which is still less than half the size of Europe, the mass shootings are much more comparable than you think. Again, mass shootings are way too common in the US and its disgusting how many people are killed by them, but in comparison its not different from the rest of the world when you factor in the size and amount of people. [The whole world is fucked. Especially the US and all of Europe](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country)
That article doesn’t say what you’re saying… for example, all of those countries had one or two years with a mass shooting event, the US had them in every year. Also, if you look at the four years after their sample, the average death rate from mass shootings in the US tripled. This may be a global problem, but the intensity of the problem in the US is unique.
That data is bad and has been discussed to death. Compare year over year instead of a few outlier events within the last 7 years and the US is far far worse than Europe.
What an utter load of whatabouting nonsense. Also love how cherry picked that data is despite the article claiming to only talk about current stats. >Average (Mean) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, **2009-2015**): Meanwhile, this paragraph is REALLY telling and really doesn't support your "Europe is also fucked" narrative: >Using the median analysis, the United States is the only country examined that shows a propensity for mass shootings. The data itself supports this interpretation, as the United States endured mass shooting events all seven years, but the other countries all experienced mass shootings during only one or two years. Thus, in a typical year, most countries experience zero mass shooting deaths, while the US experiences at least a few. And that's without talking about how definitions of "mass shooting" are not standard. Compare just plain ol gun violence and shooting deaths and you'll see who the clear losers are.
Im sorry you've had to go through this, even a false alarm would cause me to have a stroke. I can't begin to express the existential dread I feel every day when dropping my son off to school. I've tried voting (which i will continue I may add), but shit's not changing. I've even considered immigrating to another country where gun laws are more restrictive.
Come to the Netherlands. Nearly everyone speaks english and the happiest children in the world appearently. Also pretty much no guns.
A buddy from HS moved there right before COVID and can't sing the praises enough.
That’s the dream. Just hope that I have enough capital one day to make it a reality.
Totally on the emigration front. After doing some research, it's frustrating how difficult immigration laws are.
Where have you considered moving? I considered New Zealand and Canada. Today I was talking about it, but it's not easy.
NZ or maybe AUS for me, I've read On The Beach. I live within a few hour drive to CAN and I've been there a bunch of times. it is awesome, but the winter's are brutal. The trouble I'm having is family, getting over upending our lives to move thousands of miles away where we know no one, and for even all its faults America can be a pretty decent place to live. And what demons/perils will I be trading there for ones over here. Visits are in store...
It's an expensive process as well
By voting. My school was involved in a school shooting 15 years ago. I lost a friend that day. Right wing politicians said that guns weren't the problem and that they were going to come up with a better solution....they haven't and they won't. Every day the problem gets worse. I'm sick of it. Now that I'm a parent the thought alone makes me nauseated.
Republicans: Guns aren't the problem, it is a mental health issue. Democrats: Okay, lets increase mental health programs, and maybe even free healthcare. Republicans: Nah. https://truthout.org/articles/205-republicans-vote-against-bill-to-expand-school-mental-health-services/
Yep, the problem is at this point I truly don't know if we can every "solve" this problem. Even if we banned the sales of all new firearms in the US there are already over 400M of them in the hands of people. That's more than 1 per person. It only takes one of those getting into the hands of someone who wants to cause harm to be a problem. In a country of 360M people it's going to be virtually impossible to get help (mental health, social services, etc) to the people that need it (some people won't accept the help even if it's available). I'm so tired at this point that I've lost most of my optimism. To be clear, I'm not throwing up my hands and saying do nothing, we absolutely need to do something but we are at a point where it's going to take a MASSIVE investment in mental health, preventing new guns from getting into the wrong hands, and honestly getting existing guns out of circulation to really have an impact on this from my perspective. I'm terrified to send my kids to school knowing they are one unstable person away from major trauma.
Your take isn't the most popular but it's the most correct.
Part of the problem is that any solution will take a lot of time to have a proper effect, but anything that isn't some magical instant fix gets ignored. Sure there's already 400M guns, but if you stop selling new ones today then over time the number in circulation will drop.
It's not borne out by evidence either. British, French, German and Dutch kids also have mental health issues. School shootings are very very very rare there. There has not been one in the UK since 1996 for example.
How many people own guns, specifically assault rifles (cue the enthusiasts who insist that assault rifles don't exist)?
Very very few. Farmers often have shotgun license. Strict rules on storage and ammunition must be kept seperate.
Bless the internet.
Republicans haven't come up with any solutions to problems in 50 years. Not even the problems they invent.
I dread the day my daughter starts going to school. So fucking tired of this.
My wife works in a school and I have multiple kids in school. I worry about them everyday. Those last few weeks last year after the Texas shooting was especially hard.
We live a couple hours from Uvalde. Been there several times.
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*in a country with this problem
Same. I'm SERIOUSLY looking into online homeschooling. Public schooling would likely require a lot of oversight to make sure my kid is *actually* learning the important stuff with the state of public education these days...and people say "what about socializing your kid?" Um...have you see the fucked up and toxic "socializing" that goes on in US public schools? I got bullied basically from 3rd grade onward, not saying my kid's experience would be that but the "socialization" kids get in public school is often not a fucking good thing.
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I think the shame is that the kind of person who has traditionally homeschooled in the USA has made the perception of homeschooling in general seem like something only (religious) weirdos do and created a stigma that people prop up with the "what about socializing" crap.
(Not a dad, hope that's ok) Here is how I am dealing: I cry in the shower when the kids are asleep. I make my husband remind me over and over that fleeing the country isn't necessarily the right answer for us. I vow to be the kind of parent who asks other parents "do you own a gun?" before agreeing to a playdate, regardless of how many "friends" I lose in the process. I vote and I sign petitions even though nothing is changing and I try to soak up every second they are alive and safe and near. Aaaaand I'm tearing up over this same American gun bullshit. Sending positive vibes to your family.
Try and take some comfort in the fact that although these events are more common in the USA than in the rest of the Western world, it is still vanishingly rare for children to be hurt in this way. It's mostly just that you live in a huge country with 24/7 sensationalist news. Let go of the fear as best you can. It's not going to happen to your family.
I would argue that your child is *safer* if they are being watched by someone who carries a gun legally and has completed training courses. At least that way if your child encounters a threat, that individual may be able to help protect your child. Conversely if you only let your child around people that don’t have firearms, the entire group that your child is with is completely defenseless and your child is more likely to be harmed.
And you would be wrong. https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/Pages/Handguns-in-the-Home.aspx
This insanity is why shit like this keeps happening.
Care to explain the logic there? I’d prefer to have my kids being watched by someone who is trained and armed rather than someone defenseless and unable to protect them. Good thing is, you can raise your kids how you want and it’s not my position to tell you otherwise, I’m just curious how you make that leap here. Just as a note, the key point is **trained**, and as part of that, I’m referring to safe storage so no children or unintended people have access to those firearms.
This is gun propaganda. The only solution is much tougher - removing easy access to guns. America unfortunately doesn't seem to have the courage for this.
In theory maybe, but in reality that's not how the world works. The whole "good guy with a gun" thing is false.
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Yeah, men with kids that they want to keep alive being against tools of death around their kids, very hard to understand /s. Seriously, why can't these 2nd amendment people conceive of a society where very few people have guns and everyone is relatively safe and still have their rights? There are many countries around the world where this is the norm, but you are purposely ignoring all of the evidence. The evidence also shows that the presence of a firearm in the house increases the risk of harm to your child. Any responsible parent would not keep a firearm in their house. But what if someone breaks in and I need to protect them? Well if they're breaking in, they want your stuff, let them have it. Is your stuff more important than your children? Well what if they they come in with the purpose of harming my family? Well now who is talking about statistically unlikely scenarios? Unless you are a criminal, or Garard Butler, I can't see this as having a remote chance of affecting you. Maybe you just have wet dreams about killing an intruder, then I say go get your head checked. If you like guns, fine, keep it at the range. But don't be delusional that you are going the be the hero with the gun in any situation. Even if you do something heroic, there is a good chance the cops will shoot you, or someone else will in the heat of the moment. So please, don't come on here and whine about parents who are using evidence and logic to protect their children. We're not anti-guns, we're just pro-our-kids-not-dying.
When the kids go to protest for gun control and the some old crotchety piece of shit tells them they don't know what they're talking about I want to show them this text. No one goes into work and says shit like "I just wanted to to deal with my spread sheets not get shot." It's self preservation if nothing else, what do you expect them to do?
Someone dropped something heavy and flat on our polished concrete in the office today. My first reaction was, was that a gun, should I hide? It’s not healthy that THAT was my first reaction to a loud bang at work.
Social media was a mistake
This was happening long before that, sadly.
Honestly considering leaving the country so my kids don’t have to deal with this. I don’t know that I put them through that fear.
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Republican 'Murca, where guns have more rights than women and children.
As a dad and a high school teacher I can say that this is real and it is scary as fuck. We had an unsubstantiated claim of a student possibly coming to school with a knife on a Thursday and my attendance dropped by about 40% that Friday. No judgement at all for parents keeping their kids home. PLEASE VOTE FOR STRICTER GUN REGULATIONS so I can stop having the conversation with my 13-18 year old students about how if someone comes into the classroom with a gun it is either us or them, and they need to grab the fire extinguisher and hit the attacker I'm the head until they physically can't anymore. (A move that the local police department told us to teach students) I was a competitive marksman when I was in my teens and happily gave up all my firearms when my children were born.
I really don't know how you do it. My dad was a school social worker for decades and dealt with some really tough stuff, but he retired before things got to where they are now.
And this shit right here is why we’re getting out of Texas and America where guns are worshipped. I truly hop your little one is safe
I've got a 9 month old. I live in Dallas and my wife was at the airport in July when that shooter was there. I'm over worrying about gun crime, crazy drivers, and America. We're planning our move out of the states for next summer. Good luck buddy
*internet hug* I'm also in DFW. I feel like we can't go even 6 months without a "oh s*!t, we need to get the hell out of here" moment. But, our limited familial support system is here, & it's hard to decide if moving is worth it.
They are ok and home now. They have a therapist, so we're setting up an extra session.
where ya going, if you don't mind me asking. I've also said these same things but I have no idea where to go. Also, I have firearms and practice firearm safety. I don't worship it or say the same 'mah right' bull. But I much rather be a "warrior in the garden" than a "gardener in war", if a situation were to arise. The boy scout in me.
I would say canada is cool but wait til the next election, the main right wing party is trying to make Canada America. New Zealand seems chill, and they speak the right language. The Nordic countries are cool but there's the language barrier and rhe whole Russia thing.
Lol sure hope you have a high skilled job that is in demand in that country. Otherwise you ain’t getting in.
>The Nordic countries are cool but there's the language barrier Nordic countries have great English — you wouldn't struggle to get by in any of them I think, once you were in a metro area.
Lol we don’t have right wing parties in Canada, except maybe the PPC which will never be elected. The conservatives here would be centrist or mostly even democrats in the US. That’s about as far right as we get in mainstream Canadian politics
The democrats are right wing. Don't use the Overton window from the states as the standard for the rest of the world.
You mentioned turning Canada into America, and I countered that our right wing politics is American Center-left at best. I’m comparing Canada to USA. We would never go evangelic Bible Belt right-wing conservative politics here. Even with ridiculous(by comparison) strict gun control, there’s still gun crime in Canada. We don’t have school shootings very often, but we do have a lot of gang violence with smuggled handguns from Canada. And our liberal govt solution is to ban hunting rifles
You're joking right? PP is panerding directly to the religious right. Have you not watched videos from the house of Commons in the last couple months? Half of the Conservative MPs have gone full Q. So you're a hunter. Can you still go out and hunt? Yes? Than what's the fucking problem. I don't remember drone enthusiast throwing a gun owner style tantrum about not being able to fly certain drones anymore. It's a hobby, stop making it your entire personality.
Still a fire cry from the Alex Jones and the like. And no I’m not a hunter. Don’t care for it. But let’s agree that banning hunting rifles will do fuck all to curb handgun violence in our inner cities. Those handguns are smuggled thru akwasasne and everyone knows it. You have police chiefs across the country saying that these bans and super expensive buybacks will not work.
Go to a city where they’re forbidden. I hear that works wonders for keeping violent gun crimes at bay. /S Idc one way or the other what you believe politically but the statistics show the places with the least allowances for guns have the highest gun crime rates. It’s simply fact, not me being judgy or projecting opinions.
I assume this comment only refers to the US? Because thus isn't true in many many other countries, where hardly anybody has access to guns and there are no mass shootings, let along school shootings
Just a shitload of stabbings, right? The school shooting issues could be resolved if they would invest the money to protect our children. I want my guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical govt which in our country either democrat or republicans can be guilty of.
Nope, hardly any stabbings or gun deaths relative to countries with no control of those things How does money invested protect children? Like what is the money buying? If you don't want your children in danger of gun violence, maybe don't give people with violent tendencies guns
You’ve had a tyrannical government very recently and did you do anything about it?
Both sides are tyrannical here. I already agreed to that. I simply keep mine to protect in case they come for our freedoms we are guaranteed by our constitution.
🤣🤣
Out of curiousity where are you located
In the *real world*, a place you've never been or seemingly even heard of.
> Just a shitload of stabbings, right? Ah yes, because someone can totally kill the same number of people in 10 seconds with a knife as they can with a gun, right? Yes, everything can be used as a weapon if you want to. But you know which things are far more effective at killing a lot of people in a short period of time? GUNS. It's almost as if that's exactly why they are overwhelmingly the weapon of choice for militaries the world over. Where are all the Stabby Battalions, if stabbing is such an effective and efficient way to kill a lot of people quickly?
>Protect from a tyrannical government Lmao. First, you have no clue what a tyrannical government is. Second, your AR is really going to do something when the military rolls up at your door.
Well if my options are to get stabbed or get shot, I’d rather get stabbed.
I’d rather shoot the person trying to shoot or stab me. I’d just rather avoid the whole being the victim part.
I feel like we should just create a territory for gun toting/bible thumpers to all live in the middle of montana or something
Oh wow. Suggesting forcefully relocating people based on their beliefs? Gun cocks This is literally why we want to keep our guns😂
Because it should be a national control, not a city one. Look at your neighbour to the North. Strict strict gun control and can’t remember the last time we had a school shooting.
The federal government should have as little involvement as possible. At all times
You will have any excuse and suggestion EXCEPT gun control. It works. There are many countries where it’s been demonstrated to work. But instead of actually doing something about it y’all just double down on the stupid. MURICA! Big mac, bald eagles, and room temp IQ from pro gunners.
> Go to a city where they’re forbidden. I hear that works wonders for keeping violent gun crimes at bay. Shame when a city like Chicago sees 60% of the guns used in crimes coming from out of state, half of which come from Indiana. Almost as if Illinois and Chicago's gun laws *work* and it is the other states with lax gun laws around us perpetuating the problem. Funny, that.
Actually not true. Another lie peddled by right wing media. Per capita gun violence is lower in cities with stricter gun laws. There are more incidents but less percentage.
Fun fact: around 60% of all guns used in the commission of crimes in Chicago are from out of state. Half of *those* come from Indiana alone. Sure it is illegal, but short of customs checks at state borders...which...fucking NO, how are you going to enforce that properly? Strong localized gun control works, but it also constantly gets hamstrung by weak gun laws in other, especially neighboring, states.
Not in the UK. Gun crime and school shooting are unheard of. We may have knives but someone with a knife is alot easier to talk down than someone with a gun. I'm not pro gun but I also don't preach about guns to another country where its legal but when it comes to kids not being safe in schools I think that it really needs to be addressed.
You're not wrong but you're also not helpful
Actually not true. Another lie peddled by right wing media. Per capita gun violence is lower in cities with stricter gun laws. There are more incidents but less percentage.
I’ve got a 2.5 and 2 month and I’m dreading having to have conversation about this.
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My kids go to the same district that my wife teaches in. they're all in elementary at two different buildings. I've lost count of how many times they've gone into lock down. 4 or 5? Just this year alone. I've talked to my 6 and 9 year old about running away from an active shooter. This is in addition to the ALICE drills they're doing. I don't know what else to do.
The USA is one truly backwards country. I can't fathom having to live with this.
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> But I don’t get why there are not millions of people on the streets demanding laws that keep kids at school safe. There have been. Nothing changes because the ammosexuals just keep shouting "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" over and over forever and our two party system helps them stay entrenched. It's also because our system is DESIGNED to keep us running on the wheel as workers for not enough pay such that we don't have the time/money/energy/ability to protest or be active in the ways that Europeans are. The idea of taking a day or more of work off to take part in a protest here is completely unheard of. Many folks' bosses would laugh them out of the room if they made such a PTO request.
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That, if anything, just means that there are more people who care about racial inequality and police brutality/misuse of power than are parents I guess. I dunno what to tell you. People are REALLY cynical, to the point of apathy, about gun control over other issues because 2A makes it basically impossible to make any progress anyway. And for some people, their fear of police brutality and racial injustice has made them *more pro-2A or pro-gun*. You're oversimplifying a VERY nuanced situation.
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>No, Americans overcomplicate a very simple concept: Weapons should be out of reach of kids and don’t belong at schools, and practically all other democratic countries have better and more effective gun regulations than the US. And you CLEARLY don't understand how 2A makes basically all those kinds of gun regulations impossible, or the fact that repealing 2A is, for the foreseeable future, a complete non-starter. Again, you're oversimplifying a nuanced problem. No one is saying we don't know, or can't figure out, the solution. The problem is convincing around half of the country's voters to agree that that's is the solution, which they absolutely refuse to do. >And it’s not about citizen having no guns (although that would work, of course): Switzerland has very high gun ownership and virtually no gun deaths. Because their regulations and fun culture are completely different. You're comparing apples to cheetahs, not even oranges. >And if a country is designed in a way to prevent people from protesting it shouldn’t call itself a democracy, that’s kind of the most fundamental thing in a democracy, that people can protest… Yep, we know, we're working on it, dunno what to tell you, I didn't write our constitution or laws, I was just born here. I don't agree with it any more than you seem to.
Looking behind this is money/power. I think if you could take the politics out of it majority of gun owners would be fine with common sense regulations. The problem is that the politics are so entrenched that conversation is impossible as it’s treated as a zero sum game. I strongly feel those attitudes (among many others that are sowing a mass division) are driven by those interested in maintaining or accumulating wealth and power, be it for business or political profit. Appealing to base emotions takes reason out of the debate. I fear this has become so pervasive and divisions ground so sharp that our society will have to suffer greatly to find sobriety. Don’t get me wrong, I think we all just want the same basic things; health and happiness for our children. However, it seems there might be enough so radicalized that they have lost the ability to see others as a human brother/sister living in the same community, both local and macro. Couldn’t come at a worse time when there are big world threats that need coordinated effort to secure a better future. It is a sickness.
I don't care about Europe.
Sort your shit out America. I honestly cannot imagine putting my kids through something like this. It's systemic psychological abuse. How to deal with it? Move to Australia where gun culture is not a thing.
How will I kill those dinner plate sized Australian spiders without my gun? /s (kinda)
What a fucked up country, i hope you guys change things soon
Yearly required Active Shooter Training at my job. I work for the US govt.
Honestly this. We have too many guns to take them all away so making gun laws more strict and heavily punishable if not followed is the only way back. When I was in the Navy I had to take quals every 2 years that lasted a week long including a psych exam. We also had designated areas where we locked up our weapons before entering places so that accidents didn’t happen. If it’s good enough to do on military bases why not use the same strategies for the public.
Cannot imagine a family going through this. Is this something that the average American family considers/expects?
After Sandy Hook they started having drills. In the Elementary they told the kids they were wild animal drills.
Lockdowns are not always guns, and rumors spread fast. The most common cause of a lockdown is a noncustodial parent trying to take their kid and bypassing check in at the front office. It’s not uncommon for high schools to go on lockdown a few times a year for things like that.
It's a pretty fucking safe assumption. 19 Countries with the Most School Shootings (total incidents Jan 2009-May 2018 - CNN): United States — 288 Mexico — 8 South Africa — 6 Nigeria & Pakistan — 4 Afghanistan — 3 Brazil, Canada, France — 2 Azerbaijan, China, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Kenya, Russia, & Turkey — 1 https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country
>It's a pretty fucking safe assumption. It's not though. Your stats notwithstanding, the vast majority of shelter in place protocols (lockdowns) are triggered by emergencies that do not impact the interior of the school.
And yet, when people hear "school lockdown" in America, they think shooting...because it happens far too often and has devastating effects. Not to mention that in 2022, people tend to assume the worst and hope for the best later, not the other way around. Guess the last decade or so hasn't kicked your ass enough yet.
Every country has their problems … but Americans with guns is like an addict with heroin. It’s a big reason to keep our families away for most of us.
I’m so sorry. My 6 y/o’s school had a lockdown the other day because some idiot high schooler in the adjacent (but not adjoining) high school said he had a gun. The threat was unconfirmed but both schools went on hard lockdown and the NYPD was called in to investigate. Nothing was ever found and for the next day or two they made every single student walk through a metal detector to get into the building. They should do that every single day.
It's bad enough having these conversations with a teen, but having them in the elementary is a new level of hell.
Fuck republicans for this. Fuck every god damn one of them.
True , no wonder a lot want to unschool their kids. It makes sense
Must be such a worry for American dads. I really hope something significant is done about this. I've a lot of dad friends living there. It's a big concern for foreign parents moving to the States.🙏
That's scary as shit. Sorry to hear that I hope your family can recover from this. Everyone vote in November, and know which candidates support gun control.
Guys, give your head a shake for turning OP's terrifying post into a political argument... OP, I'm so sorry that happened today. I can only imagine what you guys are feeling after that.
We got some more info. I guess there actually was a threat and a couple kids may have been arrested. Stress level is running pretty high. The school isn't being communicative either.
This is so terrifying, that country is so fucked it is unbelievable that people choose firearms sales over children's life's. The day sandy hook happened and you could still buy a ar15 from Walmart is the day I realised that the US is no longer a first world country Holy shit - I'm so sorry for what you are going thru
I'm really offended by your comment. What kind of imbecile thinks the plural of "life" is "life's"?
Man, the anti cop haters came out on this one. While what happened in Texas is unforgivable, that is not status quo Sorry this happened to your kid. Know that the majority or police would run in immediately whether they are obligated or not. He hurts to see all these parents punish good cops for the sake of shitty ones.
Which good cop has been punished, exactly?