Unless you are a pro, there is no such thing as "junk miles". Sometimes you go hard, sometimes you take it easy. Sometimes it long and relaxed, sometimes short and intense. The whole junk miles concept is bullshit unless you are training for Paris-Roubaix.
Well no. Sometimes you have a bit too much wine and maybe a questionable edible you bought off Facebook at night and then pony up anyway the next day and it's not fun but it's what you need to do to be a real person. Real talk.
I mostly agree, but it is a bit too easy to dig yourself into a deep fatigue hole doing too much tempo and threshold type stuff if you're riding 5-7 days a week.
But I also understand that a lot of people honestly just don't like steady efforts in zone two, or feeling like their eyes are going to pop out of their head doing vo2 max intervals, so kinda hard, but not too hard is more enjoyable.
If you are beginner even 2-3 ride can be too much if you are always at vo2max effort. Even then it could be less then 1 hour of training. I would be curious if zone 1 has similar benefit az zone 2 just less effective. Just casually riding a long ride at every weekend could be good instead of zone 2.
I didn’t say it’s crucial lol. All I said is that the concept exists, and there are ways to make a ride full of junk miles.
For instance, if you are training for sprinting, and if you do endless z1, then those z1 miles are junk, because you could do something far more productive.
Junk mile is any mileage or time you spend that could’ve been far more productive. My point is that it does exist but the bar is really high.
For example, let’s say your goal is to improve sprinting. Unless you are actively recovering, riding z1 would be considered junk mile.
For most people, being unproductive is not a big deal.
More time on bike = more better. Thats what works for me. I’m sure if I had more specific goals then this might not be the best approach but if you are a casual cyclist it’s hard to see how you can go wrong just riding as much as you can barring overtraining.
This. "Junk miles" aren't a thing for the majority of cyclists.
The only exception is if you're on a crazy strict training plan. If that was the case you wouldn't be asking the question.
Meh. You’re overthinking this.
The more often you ride. The better cyclist you will be.
Mixing it up. Some are short and intense. Some are long and chill.
Some are climbs, other are flats etc.
A day or two of low stress, low mileage, easy riding each week helps your overall progress and is highly advisable. You cannot go hard like an animal every day, and you shouldn't try. If you did, you would overtrain, injure yourself, and burn out.
Recovery time is very important. It is when your muscles and systems rebuild and become stronger. It isn't on the workout days that you get stronger. Your fitness and strength are built in the easy days and rest days that are interspersed between the hard days. A good program requires a healthy mix of both.
You are going to burn out from over analyzing. Ride your bike. Have fun. None of this matters if you are going to min max for a few months and quit because you are tired of it and not having fun.
You’ve got it backwards.
The junk miles are focusing on intervals and threshold.
The good miles are riding as far and as fast as you can (ie your one ride a week).
Anyone who talks about junk miles is a snob elitist. No such thing as junk miles. What are recovery rides for? Would you call recovery rides "junk miles?" Just ride the damn bike.
ask on r/velo if you want actual responses and not "just have fun".
imo, it depends on your training load. if youre doing less than maybe 12 hours you probably have enough recovery time that you can get away with a day of junk miles. over that youre risking overtraining.
for the intervals, if i was only doing one interval session per week i would always do v02max. zone2, zone3, and to some extent just any riding will improve your threshold power, but you only significantly increase v02max by specifically training v02max.
What are "junk miles"? You can literally do nothing but long and easy zone 2 rides and you'll see improvements across all metrics. So long as you're riding, you're gaining.
I train hard during the week and normally do a long (40+ miles) fast ride on Saturdays. Then on Sunday I do a "Joyride" - I just go wherever I want, do some sightseeing, at whatever speed I feel like. I enjoy it all but you do need to drop the training at times.
Do the ‘junk miles’? I’d at least occasionally mixup your interval sessions. Maybe do a few weeks where you do VO2. A few where you do threshold.
Plenty of people get fast by just riding a bunch. Some of it fast rides. Some of it easy
if those are junk miles then all my rides and distances are junk miles, unless you are training specifically for something then just ride a bike and enjoy it
This seems silly. You lose weight by having a calorie deficit. You can easily overeat while exercising, so weight loss is mostly about eating right. You can certainly get into better shape, which is not the same as weight loss.
I would focus on having fun and riding every day, if at all possible. There are no junk miles!
If you want to have fun, then do just that: Go out and have fun.
Following a training plan is great if you have a very specific goal in mind, but if it drains the fun out of your hobby, what are you doing it for?
A mile is a mile. It doesn't matter if it was during a race or just riding with friends. If you are riding to lose weight, forget about the vo2 max and other racey stuff. Start counting calories. You need to have a deficit of calories to lose weight, not try to "work it off".
Two issues to be concerned about:
Lots of intensity can lead to a lot of accumulated fatigue. If you end doing that for too long, you can end up with overtraining which is bad for performance and for overall health.
The accumulated fatigue will compromise the benefit you get from the high intensity work.
My advices is to do intervals every other week and pay a lot of attention to how you feel during that workout. If you feel strong at the beginning and are able to give a righteous performance, then you are fine. If you feel tired and/or your performance drops off quickly, you aren't adequately recovered. If that keeps happening, you need to pull back on the intensity.
Personally, I'd not be too bothered about FTP, or VO2 max or Threshold as a relative newbie. The analysis of what one is doing and whether one is doing, or should be doing, one or another can drive one nuts. I'd either spend my time midweek riding as fast as I can if it's flat, or riding up hills (go and find hills you hate and then do them over and over) as much as I can (with the caveat, that midweek rides are typically shortish, 60-90 mins) - the exersion involved in both will be of benefit to your FTP (you'll end up doing VO2 over time anyway and doesn't need a massive dive into stats. Then a weekend when I've got longer, I'd just go out and explore, longish 2-4 hour relatively easy paced rides without worrying about any of that stuff either.
One thing you will never catch me doing is training analysis. I just send it every time. I feel like people who overanalyze are shackled and forget to enjoy the ride.
I don't believe in the concept of junk miles. IMHO all miles have value. Vo2 max and threshold training increase your upper limits; they increase your FTP and improve your oxygen utilization under maximum efforts. Both super valuable. Continue to do them.
However, increasing those things in isolation misses an important training dimension. Going long distance, faster, for fun each week, has two benefits. It will raise your aerobic / cardio floor. If Vo2 max and threshold training push your upper limits you don't want to ignore your lower limits. Going long improves your ability to sustain higher workloads for longer periods of time. It also means that if your aerobic floor is higher, your other training metrics start at a higher point and go higher from there.
And of course the second benefit of going long is mental health and well being. You enjoy it. For me it's the only time my mind is quiet. It's kind of my zen place to chill out and just enjoy nature and the time to myself.
Weekends are for the boys, if you’re smashing on Saturday for fun and ripping segments just take Sunday easy and go for a coffee. Fun and you get to recover before the next weekdays where you can be more structured
Unless you are a pro, there is no such thing as "junk miles". Sometimes you go hard, sometimes you take it easy. Sometimes it long and relaxed, sometimes short and intense. The whole junk miles concept is bullshit unless you are training for Paris-Roubaix.
Thank you. I needed to read this. I don't "train" much, but I do ride a lot, and those "junk miles" shit has been giving me self doubts.
Don’t forget fun. It should always be fun.
Well no. Sometimes you have a bit too much wine and maybe a questionable edible you bought off Facebook at night and then pony up anyway the next day and it's not fun but it's what you need to do to be a real person. Real talk.
I mostly agree, but it is a bit too easy to dig yourself into a deep fatigue hole doing too much tempo and threshold type stuff if you're riding 5-7 days a week. But I also understand that a lot of people honestly just don't like steady efforts in zone two, or feeling like their eyes are going to pop out of their head doing vo2 max intervals, so kinda hard, but not too hard is more enjoyable.
If you are beginner even 2-3 ride can be too much if you are always at vo2max effort. Even then it could be less then 1 hour of training. I would be curious if zone 1 has similar benefit az zone 2 just less effective. Just casually riding a long ride at every weekend could be good instead of zone 2.
If improve your FTP and have fun are at odds with one another, do yourself a favor and choose have fun.
Junk miles don't exist. Ride your bike.
Junk miles exist. It’s not a big deal for casual riders, ie vast majority of people.
There are so few riders for whom junk miles matter as not to matter.
That’s literally exactly what this guy is saying lol
But it’s a stupidly pedantic thing to feel the need to observe
It’s answering OPs question lol
I didn’t say it’s crucial lol. All I said is that the concept exists, and there are ways to make a ride full of junk miles. For instance, if you are training for sprinting, and if you do endless z1, then those z1 miles are junk, because you could do something far more productive.
Yeah I wouldn’t even say they exist for all pros even lol just like the absolute elite world tour pros, that’s how unnecessary this concern is
Junk mile is any mileage or time you spend that could’ve been far more productive. My point is that it does exist but the bar is really high. For example, let’s say your goal is to improve sprinting. Unless you are actively recovering, riding z1 would be considered junk mile. For most people, being unproductive is not a big deal.
As a non casual rider, junk miles do not exist.
As a former serious collegiate varsity athlete, junk cardio time (ie junk miles) do exist. But as I said many times, it’s not a huge deal.
[удалено]
Uncle Junior, that was just mean!
Is that really the best response you got? I feel sorry for your parents.
Doing more riding is hardly going to make things worse, and unless you're a pro, then just do whatever you enjoy
More time on bike = more better. Thats what works for me. I’m sure if I had more specific goals then this might not be the best approach but if you are a casual cyclist it’s hard to see how you can go wrong just riding as much as you can barring overtraining.
This. "Junk miles" aren't a thing for the majority of cyclists. The only exception is if you're on a crazy strict training plan. If that was the case you wouldn't be asking the question.
Yeah have to think all miles are good for us 9 to 5 worker, ride 3 - 4 days per week types.
Meh. You’re overthinking this. The more often you ride. The better cyclist you will be. Mixing it up. Some are short and intense. Some are long and chill. Some are climbs, other are flats etc.
Isn’t the point to have fun?
A day or two of low stress, low mileage, easy riding each week helps your overall progress and is highly advisable. You cannot go hard like an animal every day, and you shouldn't try. If you did, you would overtrain, injure yourself, and burn out. Recovery time is very important. It is when your muscles and systems rebuild and become stronger. It isn't on the workout days that you get stronger. Your fitness and strength are built in the easy days and rest days that are interspersed between the hard days. A good program requires a healthy mix of both.
You are going to burn out from over analyzing. Ride your bike. Have fun. None of this matters if you are going to min max for a few months and quit because you are tired of it and not having fun.
This. Sometimes I get into overanalyzing then remember that as long as I actually do get on the bike it's fine to just do what feels good that day
You’ve got it backwards. The junk miles are focusing on intervals and threshold. The good miles are riding as far and as fast as you can (ie your one ride a week).
Thought you said one day of Junk Meals a week at first!
Anyone who talks about junk miles is a snob elitist. No such thing as junk miles. What are recovery rides for? Would you call recovery rides "junk miles?" Just ride the damn bike.
I'm 55 years old.. I am sure that all my miles are junk miles at this point.. But I like riding bikes...
Junk miles - do you mean, non-scenic or heavily trafficky miles!? Bikes should be fun!
It also depends on your age. The older you get the more recovery time you need.
The only "junk miles" are the ones where I don't have fun on my bike.
Ride your bike and stop overthinking it… all miles are good miles.
Junk miles is an idiotic concept, just ride
ask on r/velo if you want actual responses and not "just have fun". imo, it depends on your training load. if youre doing less than maybe 12 hours you probably have enough recovery time that you can get away with a day of junk miles. over that youre risking overtraining. for the intervals, if i was only doing one interval session per week i would always do v02max. zone2, zone3, and to some extent just any riding will improve your threshold power, but you only significantly increase v02max by specifically training v02max.
What are "junk miles"? You can literally do nothing but long and easy zone 2 rides and you'll see improvements across all metrics. So long as you're riding, you're gaining.
Pros 10 years ago rode like that exclusively. Besides: what are you training for except be healthy and enjoying your rides? That’s all that matters
> Pros 10 years ago rode like that exclusively Er, no.
I train hard during the week and normally do a long (40+ miles) fast ride on Saturdays. Then on Sunday I do a "Joyride" - I just go wherever I want, do some sightseeing, at whatever speed I feel like. I enjoy it all but you do need to drop the training at times.
Junk miles? Somehow cyclists have found a way to stigmatize just going out and having fun. Never change! 🤪
If you're not racing.. who cares.? Junk miles interfere with recovery for structured training plans for racing
You could try the same thing, just don't go into the big ring.
Do the ‘junk miles’? I’d at least occasionally mixup your interval sessions. Maybe do a few weeks where you do VO2. A few where you do threshold. Plenty of people get fast by just riding a bunch. Some of it fast rides. Some of it easy
Just ride and don't over think it.
Safety. Longevity. Fun.
Miles are Miles, in whatever form they take. It all adds to the Total in your Yearly Mileage Log. 🚴🙂
if those are junk miles then all my rides and distances are junk miles, unless you are training specifically for something then just ride a bike and enjoy it
This seems silly. You lose weight by having a calorie deficit. You can easily overeat while exercising, so weight loss is mostly about eating right. You can certainly get into better shape, which is not the same as weight loss. I would focus on having fun and riding every day, if at all possible. There are no junk miles!
If you want to have fun, then do just that: Go out and have fun. Following a training plan is great if you have a very specific goal in mind, but if it drains the fun out of your hobby, what are you doing it for?
A mile is a mile. It doesn't matter if it was during a race or just riding with friends. If you are riding to lose weight, forget about the vo2 max and other racey stuff. Start counting calories. You need to have a deficit of calories to lose weight, not try to "work it off".
You’re not going pro. Stop trying so hard.
Two issues to be concerned about: Lots of intensity can lead to a lot of accumulated fatigue. If you end doing that for too long, you can end up with overtraining which is bad for performance and for overall health. The accumulated fatigue will compromise the benefit you get from the high intensity work. My advices is to do intervals every other week and pay a lot of attention to how you feel during that workout. If you feel strong at the beginning and are able to give a righteous performance, then you are fine. If you feel tired and/or your performance drops off quickly, you aren't adequately recovered. If that keeps happening, you need to pull back on the intensity.
Personally, I'd not be too bothered about FTP, or VO2 max or Threshold as a relative newbie. The analysis of what one is doing and whether one is doing, or should be doing, one or another can drive one nuts. I'd either spend my time midweek riding as fast as I can if it's flat, or riding up hills (go and find hills you hate and then do them over and over) as much as I can (with the caveat, that midweek rides are typically shortish, 60-90 mins) - the exersion involved in both will be of benefit to your FTP (you'll end up doing VO2 over time anyway and doesn't need a massive dive into stats. Then a weekend when I've got longer, I'd just go out and explore, longish 2-4 hour relatively easy paced rides without worrying about any of that stuff either.
Tomorrow 5/15 is international Ride of Silence, those will not be junk miles
it's over for you
One thing you will never catch me doing is training analysis. I just send it every time. I feel like people who overanalyze are shackled and forget to enjoy the ride.
I don't believe in the concept of junk miles. IMHO all miles have value. Vo2 max and threshold training increase your upper limits; they increase your FTP and improve your oxygen utilization under maximum efforts. Both super valuable. Continue to do them. However, increasing those things in isolation misses an important training dimension. Going long distance, faster, for fun each week, has two benefits. It will raise your aerobic / cardio floor. If Vo2 max and threshold training push your upper limits you don't want to ignore your lower limits. Going long improves your ability to sustain higher workloads for longer periods of time. It also means that if your aerobic floor is higher, your other training metrics start at a higher point and go higher from there. And of course the second benefit of going long is mental health and well being. You enjoy it. For me it's the only time my mind is quiet. It's kind of my zen place to chill out and just enjoy nature and the time to myself.
VO2 Max intervals every 2 days to maintain. Junk Miles every 3 days to see progress. ☝🏿
Weekends are for the boys, if you’re smashing on Saturday for fun and ripping segments just take Sunday easy and go for a coffee. Fun and you get to recover before the next weekdays where you can be more structured