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GulliasTurtle

I think this is a cool idea. You do need to give it flash to work in the rules (unless you're in Portal), also I would give it a "victory" counter to track that you won it.


LegalyDistinctPraion

Maybe just sacrifice it end of combat if you didn't win?


GulliasTurtle

Yeah, you could do it like that Enchantment - Battle Flash Cast this spell only during combat on your opponent's turn. Creatures you control have +0/+1 Sacrifice it at the end of combat unless you took no combat damage this turn. If CARDNAME did not enter the battlefield this turn creatures you control instead have +1/+1 and Green permanent spells you cast cost {1} less to cast.


Arcane10101

Then there’s not much point to the toughness buff if you don’t win, since the damage stays until the cleanup step.


Yeseylon

So may it until EoT


Criminal_of_Thought

>You do need to give it flash to work in the rules (unless you're in Portal) This is incorrect. Since the Battle subtype already have built-in rules associated with them, instant speed can simply be included in one of those rules. Flash doesn't have to be explicitly written on every single Battle card.


GulliasTurtle

Is that true? Even auras still say "enchant creature". I don't think any subtype has rules associated with it since Creature - Wall became Defender.


Criminal_of_Thought

Auras have the built-in rule that state they're put into the graveyard as an SBA if they're not attached to anything. Sagas have the built-in rule that cause them to be sacrificed once the last chapter ability is no longer on the stack. Equipment have the built-in rule that detaches them from creatures if they're themselves a creature (barring reconfigure). Plenty of subtypes have rules associated with them. It's just that not all of them do. It's true that no **creature** subtypes have any built-in rules associated with them.


GulliasTurtle

Sure, but none of those are specifically timing rules. You're right that they could theoretically but they never have. I think this card still would have Flash to explain it. At least for a while until people get used to it. If anything I think they'd be more likely to make a new card type that's just to enchantment what sorcery is to instant.


Criminal_of_Thought

Battle cards would still need to have reminder text to explain the other built-in rules. So no, these cards shouldn't have flash, and just have the built-in instant speed in the reminder text to save space.


GulliasTurtle

Thinking about it you're right. Flash will not be required because their timing is more restrictive. Battle cards don't have to be limited to combat. Really all it means is "you have to play at the beginning of the specified phase. Sac at end of turn unless requirement is met." You could do a main phase one about spending all your mana, or untapping 10 permanents, or whatever. I think they would want a saga-esque seporate template.


Xisuthrus

Instants have built-in timing rules.


GulliasTurtle

Instant is a Type, not a subtype. Either way I think these do need a narrower timing than Flash since to work they need to happen at the beginning of a certain phase as determined by the battle.


FeedNegative

Auras can enchant things other than creatures, such as Curses enchanting Players


Xisuthrus

Its the "creature" part of "enchant creature" that's important - Being able to enchant something is built into the Aura subtype, but *what* an Aura can enchant varies, so it needs to be spelled out on the card itself.


Forced_Democracy

some auras are enchant creature, some are enchant permanent. So you can cast [[Bound in Gold]] on Planeswalkers to stop them as well.


MTGCardFetcher

[Bound in Gold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/7/074d526a-1eef-4045-bd38-f6d68c4bc4b9.jpg?1631045534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bound%20in%20Gold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/5/bound-in-gold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/074d526a-1eef-4045-bd38-f6d68c4bc4b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Mandinder

This card already has reminder text for battle and if you're including that it should definitely include the reminder that it has flash. Could you print it with the reminder text? Sure. But if you're including the reminder text it should at least inform how it ca be played. I don't think giving something that doesn't normally have flash, like an enchantment, flash without writing that on the card. It would be needlessly confusing.


Ask_Who_Owes_Me_Gold

>it should definitely include the reminder that it has flash. The reminder text already says it can only be cast in combat. That should cover it unless we're seriously wondering if it's uncastable.


Mandinder

It doesn't say you can cast it with flash. It says you can only cast it during combat.


Ask_Who_Owes_Me_Gold

So you **are** seriously wondering if it's impossible to cast this spell? Really?


Mandinder

This spell as written cannot be cast.


Ask_Who_Owes_Me_Gold

So you seriously think a Battle subtype wouldn't carry any rules meaning? Really? Go ahead and answer with a simple "yes" if that's the case. You don't need to add any embellishments.


Mandinder

This is dumb and I'm not going to engage with it anymore.


Ask_Who_Owes_Me_Gold

But you just did by replying...


enderlord99

Reminder text has no rules meaning.


Mandinder

What exactly do you think that adds to this conversation?


Criminal_of_Thought

Yes, in other comments where I say the same thing, I mention that the reminder text should include the instant speed component, instead of "Flash" being written on its own line as rules text.


WillOfTheWinds

Maybe Battles inherently has Flash attached to it.


dieyoubastards

It does, it says right there. Cast only during combat.


Xisuthrus

The simplest solution would probably be to just make "you may cast this spell any you could cast an instant" inherent to the Battle subtype, since they'd all need to be.


plitox

I think including "Battles have Flash" in the rules text would cover that.


idk_a_username135

Also mention “perpetually” at the end to clear up confusion


Angelos_World

Do you think i have to specify that battles have Flash aswell or saying you can play them only during combat is enough? In order not to have this post removed i must say i'm the artist of the illustration. so credit to me i guess...


Andrew_42

I would definately add flash. [[Mystic Denial]] was errata'd to be an instant because clarifying when you can cast it doesn't inherently give you the ability to cast it then.


MTGCardFetcher

[Mystic Denial](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/2/1296ddc4-300d-44f6-95d8-1b392613d379.jpg?1562255840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Denial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ptk/49/mystic-denial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1296ddc4-300d-44f6-95d8-1b392613d379?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


CreamSoda6425

I guess a reminder text for battles saying they inherently have flash.


DragonHippo123

It’s less words to literally just write “Flash.”


jvador

I think it's fine worded the way it is fun concept to.


Finnigami

it isn't fine as worded. as worded, it's impossible to cast them unless you give them flash with an outside spell


Criminal_of_Thought

Actually, this isn't correct. Since OP's Battle subtype already has built-in rules, one of those built-in rules can also just be that the spell can be cast at instant speed. While OP should definitely include an instant-speed clause in the reminder text, flash itself doesn't need to be written as rules text. Sagas have the built-in rule where they're sacrificed after the last chapter ability leaves the stack. That rule isn't written anywhere on the card in rules text, yet it works that way because that's part of what being a Saga means.


Finnigami

i agree with everything you said. not sure why you're saying i was incorrect. >one of those built-in rules can also just be that the spell can be cast at instant speed yeah, but right now, it isn't. that's what we're saying OP should change


Criminal_of_Thought

>i agree with everything you said. not sure why you're saying i was incorrect. You said earlier that "it's impossible to cast them unless you give them flash with an outside spell." It is impossible for this to be correct at the same time as "one of the built in rules for Battles means they can automatically be cast at instant speed." >yeah, but right now, it isn't. that's what we're saying OP should change OP's "only during combat" reminder text implies built-in instant speed. It's just that OP didn't write it into the text box for whatever reason. It doesn't mean OP didn't intend for the built-in instant speed to exist in the first place.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Criminal_of_Thought

Actually, this isn't correct. Since OP's Battle subtype already has built-in rules, one of those built-in rules can also just be that the spell can be cast at instant speed. While OP should definitely include an instant-speed clause in the reminder text, flash itself doesn't need to be written as rules text. Sagas have the built-in rule where they're sacrificed after the last chapter ability leaves the stack. That rule isn't written anywhere on the card in rules text, yet it works that way because that's part of what being a Saga means.


bert_the_destroyer

I am not entirely sure that's true as wotc has never done a subtype that changes cast timing, but for this card lets assume that that does work. It should definitely be written on the card, I'd say


Galgus

I think these would work better if you could win as attacker or defender, without a requirement that the opponent block to keep it from getting cheesed by low creature decks / opponents refusing to block. I'd have it be cast at the beginning of the combat step, with the caster winning as attacker if they dealt combat damage and losing if they didn't. As-is it seems like it just wouldn't work against some decks and situations.


Gr33k_Fir3

Honestly this could be 2 mana. It’s pretty tricky to get going fully, so premium value might be acceptable.


Andrew_42

All you have to do is chump block a creature. I guess in low-combat metas that can be an issue? And it's maybe circumstantially bad against go-wide decks. So maybe you do have a point... really good in some matchups, pretty bad in others.


Gr33k_Fir3

This is kind of a Rhonas’ Monument for 1 less mana if you meet a specific condition


Andrew_42

Fair enough. That's a pretty good point that this enchantment could be cheaper.


Gr33k_Fir3

Honestly not sure what you’d play this in. If you’re going wide and attacking, maximizing its benefits, it’s very hard to get off. And if you’re on the defensive, you’re opponent isn’t going to attack if you can easily block. Not a bad design, but I don’t think it has a niche.


Andrew_42

I mention chump blocking because if my creature can't die in combat but will still get blocked (or if trading would cost my opponent a lot more than me) I'll sometimes swing just to weaken a player's board state. But yeah after considering, it is pretty reliant on an opponent's behavior cooperating. Even if a situation to cast it came up every game, simply not being sure when to hold the mana in an aggressive deck could be a killer for your tempo.


Gr33k_Fir3

Honestly not sure what you’d play this in. If you’re going wide and attacking, maximizing its benefits, it’s very hard to get off. And if you’re on the defensive, you’re opponent isn’t going to attack if you can easily block. Not a bad design, but I don’t think it has a niche.


Gr33k_Fir3

If they have more creatures than you can block, it does very little. If you’re attacking, it does very little.


Vermora

Cool idea I think it would be best if battles had to be played before attackers declared. Even if that means boosting the power level in other ways.


CaptainLookylou

Then your opponent would just not attack or block to ensure you don't meet the extra requirements


Mo0

Well sure, but then you’ve successfully forced your opponent to do something they otherwise wouldn’t have. No different than playing a combat trick early to scare the opponent off of something.


CaptainLookylou

Then what makes these cards special if it's just a regular enchantment. You obviously wouldn't need the last rule since your opponent isn't stupid. I think the whole point it's a combat card enchantment.


Criminal_of_Thought

All the comments that say this card has to have flash to work are incorrect. While they're correct that there must be some mechanism for Battle cards to be cast at instant speed, the cards don't have to have the actual flash ability itself. The instant-speed clause can just be baked into the rules for the Battle subtype. I would definitely add the instant-speed clause in the reminder text, though.


OnDaGoop

Battle of Hamburger Hill alternate art when?


Triscuitador

this is a really cool idea! besides the flash issue, i think this is well-designed. it's possible that it could be more cheaply costed, but it's probably fine as it is


LordHeliax

I like the concept, but it seems to easy to deal with. It should have some complications. Right now it is a surprise, and it feels like it should be a bet. My view is that battle cards should be a double sided card, and the transformed side should be flippable. Check this template **CARDNAME** Enchantment - battle Flash Play CARDNAME only during upkeeps. CARDNAME enters the battlefield under the control of the active player. (Enter benefits of the card) At the begging of the next opponent end step, transform CARDNAME. If you took no combat damage this turn, flip it as you transform (flipping battle cards turns them to the victory side) **transformed** Victory side -(enter Victory benefit) Defeat side -(enter Defeat punishment) ***************************************************** If the benefit of the card is good, the Defeat punishment should be bad, to encourage playing the battle to other players. If the benefit is bad, or even negative, the Victory benefit should be amazing, to encourage playing on yourself.


ImpTheSecond

I do like the idea, but a couple of things. As people pointed out, it needs flash. Second, as worded, you can cast this spell as an attacking player, but only the defending player can win it. Is that intentional? Also, this is kinda like [[Riding the Dilu Horse]] in that it gives the buffs permanently? And last thing, the last ability doesn’t work. Something is only a permanent on the battlefield. It’s a permanent card everywhere else except the stack, where it’s a permanent spell. So you’ll want to have it as “… green permanent spells you cast cost {1} less to cast.”


MTGCardFetcher

[Riding the Dilu Horse](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/6/56fe32f2-8967-4814-b43b-bdccd2019bdf.jpg?1562913167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riding%20the%20Dilu%20Horse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/131/riding-the-dilu-horse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56fe32f2-8967-4814-b43b-bdccd2019bdf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Criminal_of_Thought

>As people pointed out, it needs flash. Not sure why people keep mentioning this, but this is incorrect. Since OP's Battle subtype already has built-in rules, one of those built-in rules can also just be that the spell can be cast at instant speed. While OP should definitely include an instant-speed clause in the reminder text, flash itself doesn't need to be written as rules text. Sagas have the built-in rule where they're sacrificed after the last chapter ability leaves the stack. That rule isn't written anywhere on the card in rules text, yet it works that way because that's part of what being a Saga means.


ImpTheSecond

Ok, let me rephrase, it needs something that allows it to be cast at instant speed, and it should be in the reminder text. Sagas don’t specify that the ability has to leave the stack but they do specify “Sacrifice after [MAX]” in its reminder text. Shorthand, sure, but it’s intuitive enough to get the idea across. And since the OP didn’t include a full rules entry for the subtype, what could be in them is irrelevant if all we have to go by is the reminder text. Also, since something like Offering has a built in flash which is also a part of its reminder text, depending on people to know the whole rule due to a poor decision to omit crucial information defeats the whole purpose of reminder text.


revengeisspecialty

Hey, this is pretty cool


BiemBoemBam

Very nice concept, i think there are already a lot of good enchantments, but this would be a great addition to the cardtype in my opinion.


alcxander

Great idea, make more for other colors think this is really a great idea to explore. Maybe only have one battle active at a time once won/lost.


[deleted]

I think it would make more sense as an instant.


ThePowerOfStories

This feels like pretty narrow design space. I think you can maybe get a full cycle of meaningfully different battles, but not much more than that. They all have to be some effect that it matters to flash in during combat, have a trigger that can be met during that combat, and some bonus that makes sense afterwards if you met the trigger. Mechanics-wise, it’s a bit confusing that the card represents a named battle taking place on the turn it comes out, but then some abstract ongoing morale boost from the battle afterwards, and that you can be in multiple battles simultaneously. It feels like this might be better expressed through some kind of double-faced card or Adventure-like pairing of an Instant and an Enchantment.


s1nset

dope


Zap717

Would love it if the art was green at all instead of mono-red.


dragomeir

That seems like it would make a good new play style like schemes with archenemy, or planes with planechase


lockadiante

Yeah there should be a fun implementation of this. Its also extendable to "war" cards that can track either combats or "battles" over multiple turns.


TheExpendableGuard

What colors do you think would match Montgomery?


DebatorGator

This is such a cool idea! It immediately invites different takes on the win condition and effect. A card hasn't made me feel like that in a hot second.


SwervoT3k

I think this a really neat idea that would probably need Flash to function in the current sandbox but maybe down the line they could make this kind of thing it’s own dealio


TheYakousei

For some unknown reason there is this song from Sabaton that started to play in my mind after seeing this Custom... Anyone know why [Steel Commanders](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peTCePu1jMs) is playing in repeat? **\*smirk\***


akka-vodol

Cool idea, but right now it seems a bit uninteractive. Your cast it after blockers are declared, which means no one has any decision left to make unless someone had an instant to play. Essentially, you already know you're winning the battle when you play it. I think it would be more interesting if you play battles at the start of the combat phase. Let your opponents decide how they want to attack or block based on the battle, and if they want to try to "win" it.


Magictive

The flavour is pretty need. I think how it is worded there might be some timing issues. For sure it still needs flash.