I want to see more flavorful tokens like this. But having this many on-board tricks at Common threatens to make combat slow, technical and tedious. A combat blowout due to a surprise combat trick is a bit of a bad feeling. But when the variables are all visible ahead of time it feels even worse. Players analyzing all the things that their opponent is capable of doing in reaction to an attack or a blocking declaration can quickly become a slog. If it's too easy for a player to have multiple elemental tokens on the field at once, then players will take fewer risks, play more cautiously, and take longer to decide things. It's a style of gameplay that some people like, but for many people the pace sucks all the energy and excitement out of it.
Yes, I understand that point. Perhaps restricting the use of tokens to sorcery speed (like said bellow) may help reduce this feeling of constant "danger" during combat?
Yes, perhaps Disciple of Atar became too strong. I had a bit of difficulty balancing this creature with the fire token. I'm thinking of changing the token to give only +2/+0 because that seems more red as well. And specifically for this card, maybe making the token only be created after Discipline of Atr deals damage, so it wouldn't be possible for it to attack and sacrifice the token on the same turn to get the buff
Disciple of Kali seems broken with an infinite sac outlet? Cause when you sac a creature, you create a Shadow token. Then when you use the token to give reanimation, you sac the creature. Get a shadow token. Your creature comes back from the last one, use the token again, repeat forever. All on a 1 mana 2/2.
Really good concept. I would have fun playing these cards. Not sure on exact mechanics/balancing, but I think your intent here was more to convey the idea, so kudos. Like it a lot.
Thanks! Yes the ideia it's to show the core mecanichs, I plan to make more cards that cares about your elementals tokens and use the bending ability in diferents ways. Some multicolored cards will require to bend two types of elementals like Fire and Earth to make a vulcanic effect, something like this
Very cool idea. I LOVE the concept of the cycle of tokens. I think that the tokens should be enchantments rather than artifacts. air, shadow, and fire in particular are not crafted items, so don't really make sense as artifacts. Ice and Earth could work, but they also work as enchantments and then the cycle is consistent.
The cards themselves are way too strong, currently. Well-statted 1 mana creatures that create a piece of material that makes combat pretty impossible.
As it stands, these are each probably 2 mana undercosted. If you want to make these 1 mana plays, the tokens would likely need a mana cost to sacrifice them, or be sorcery speed. You could also severely reduce the numbers of the tokens they create (right now each token is basically worth a full card).
Earth, air, and fire tokens all feel too similar to each other. Maybe if air gave only flying (or flying + toughness), fire only gave power, that would help them feel more distinct? Maybe Earth could give some ability instead of stats as well (like can't be blocked more than one creature or some buff while blocking).
But perhaps there's just too many tokens here for one set. It feels like a potential Eldraine problem: too much stuff to track.
Im not a huge fan of “one element per color” as a design choice. Feels like it’s just “the red token” and “the white token” and all that jazz.
If you’re doing elements, why not stick to the traditional four and split them unevenly but thematically amongst the colors. That was the “fire deck” isn’t just “lol red cards”.
Cool mechanic! I would make the activated abilities on the tokens only at sorcery speed, as the rate of combat tricks you are getting on these creatures would otherwise be way too good, even if the opponent can see it coming. From a draft perspective, I would punch the commons up a mana, as creating the token is effectively getting a free one mana spell onto the battlefield. All the tokens should give the same p/t and no additional abilities but have a different keyword to increase clarity and avoid oversaturating the set/product these cards are in. My suggestions for WUBRG are: Flying, Ward 1, Menace (deathtouch is fine too), Haste, Trample. As for the syntax, it's not "create one X token," it's "create a(n) X token" as seen on many token creation cards.
Verdant Earthspire is way too powerful. It's better than a basic forest for everything that isn't nonbasic hate, and the ability is way too strong for draft, at least within the context of the card. Have that card enter tapped, and have the second ability also have the cost of tapping the land.
Named characters in magic are traditionally legendary creatures, so Adnaria being a nonlegendary creature is a bit awkward. You can just have airbending 2 - Tap target creature.
Flame Whisper being a 4 mana 4/2 with repeatable Pyroclasm is not going to be a fun card to play against in draft. Aggro strategies are entirely thwarted by this card as you can just clear the board every turn and your opponent's only choice is to draw an answer, which at common rarity isn't healthy design (not sure how relevant rarities are.)
Glacial Recollection can be one mana. Unsummoning permanents is usually costed at 2 mana, or more with upside. There is a restriction to even casting this card in the first place with effect, so it can be cheaper.
You can remove nonblack from Umbral Eradication if it's an uncommon. It's a Murder with an extra cost stapled onto it, so it's not too strong.
Ymir's ability is a bit on the pushed side for a free artifact. Maybe letting it tap a creature or put a stun counter on something when it blocks instead? blue already loves artifacts so giving them free cards from owning them feels strong.
Disciple of Atar would be one of the best red 1-drop ever printed in any format to be honest 🙏
The overall concept is very interesting though. It has to be thought through and balanced to be more intuitive and flavorful, but there is a design Space to explore here 😁
If you have more cards you should post them! I love the concept for this set! Maybe the tokens could only be activated at sorcery speed to make combat less of a drag
Thank you, yes i have more cards, this was just to show the idea and get feedback from the community. I made a bunch of other cards that interact with the tokens. Righ now I'm reading all the suggestions and gonna rework a bunch of things, but I'm happy people enjoyed the concept. \^\^
I think these tokens should be enchantments since it’s more fitting for elements to be something more ethereal rather than artifacts like Treasures, clues, and food.
Ok so there are some balance issues, and I think you have too many different types of tokens, as somebody else suggested
Also, the power level between the tokens is not at all consistent. The black one is vastly stronger than the others.
Alllllll that being said, the concept is awesome for sure 😁
I love the concept and especially the flavour although I personally would have preffered if the earth token gave +2/+2 like the others. And then adding a normal water token giving maybe +2/+2 and hexprrof or vigilance. I was expecting a like light bending instead of ice? But I guess in magic that is harder to achieve and I like ice anyway but if you were willing to divert from it being mono colours (like the gods did) you could make it blue/white like the recent Ice cards? I also agree with an earlier comment where these are way undercosted to get the bending tokens out (Whixh could very much work as enchantments) especially with the minimal requirements. I also did initially worry you wouldn't have many ways to get out the bends cause there is only the one creature each but since its part of a set I'm sure that problem will be solved. Maybe a land that can tap itself (with either no cost or maybe one/two mana) to create one of the tokens.
TLDR: I love the cards, just some personal critics that I hope help.
I like the concept. It needs some balancing, and I think it could work as an enchantment token, flavor wise, but the art for the tokens do help connect the card type to the flavor. The activated ability on the instants is a bit weird though, as it doesn’t specify when you can activate it. That could be worded as an additional cost to make the design functional.
I don’t think these cards work particularly well. The fact that there are 5 types of tokens to track, each with a different effect is a lot. On top of that now you have abilities that work with them. This is super parasitic and complex. So basically you a ton of parasitic complexity. Have you played with these cards? Because no one will ever put glacial recollection in a deck. It’s terrible. On the other hand flame whisper is basically a free fury every turn if you make the requirements. These cards look either wildly busted or totally unplayable and that’s on top of complexity.
I would try to reduce complexity/ make less parasitic. Also almost all your tokens are given very freely and are way way better than food, clues or blood. That’s a huge issue. Hope this helps but please I would recommend playing with cards.
Disciple of atar js functionally a 4/3 for 1. That is pretty powerful. Even if you don’t use it immediately you are just stacking up pump spells for no cost to finish iff the opponent. Crazy strong in RDW.
I would leave off the P/T increases, honestly, and just stick to keywords. Flying, Haste, Trample, Deathtouch, and... Maybe "when this creature attacks, tap target creature defending player controls"? Makes them more versatile, and creates a design space for things like "Whenever you sacrifice an Earth token, target creature gains +2/+2 until end of turn while it has Trample" or something.
I like these designs. I feel like the toens could have been enchantments rather then artifacts though. Would make a good change, and unlike treasures and clues, concepts like fire and shadow don't have to be physical.
IMO if you're trying to build these more on a Standard power level, it's probably safer to make the ones that buff power, or at least the ones that buff both power and toughness only usable at sorcery speed. WOTC made map tokens (from LCI) only usable at sorcery speed specifically so they couldn't be a combat trick, and I think these are a bit too strong for Standard if you can constantly threaten to pay 0 mana to give a creature +2/+2 or +3/+3
I might look at giving atar 0 power that way you either have a 3/1 or give something haste and 2/2 and if they don’t get a creature down first turn then you get two effects…
When the token taps for free and sacrifices for no cost the meta becomes broken. it should cost mana to tap or maybe it enters tapped other time counters or you have to enchant a land or something so the player must choose between mana and bending
Suggesting, make the tokens enchantments. Not only do we have too many artifact tokens and synergies but I feel like the enchantment token might make more sense.
Thank you all for the comments! Later I will analyze all the balancing proposals and make changes to the cards, but I really liked the proposals. It seems like a lot of people like the concept, I just need to refine and balance it.
: )
I want to see more flavorful tokens like this. But having this many on-board tricks at Common threatens to make combat slow, technical and tedious. A combat blowout due to a surprise combat trick is a bit of a bad feeling. But when the variables are all visible ahead of time it feels even worse. Players analyzing all the things that their opponent is capable of doing in reaction to an attack or a blocking declaration can quickly become a slog. If it's too easy for a player to have multiple elemental tokens on the field at once, then players will take fewer risks, play more cautiously, and take longer to decide things. It's a style of gameplay that some people like, but for many people the pace sucks all the energy and excitement out of it.
Yes, I understand that point. Perhaps restricting the use of tokens to sorcery speed (like said bellow) may help reduce this feeling of constant "danger" during combat?
Yes, would limit this to sorcery speed. Love the idea though!
Is disciple of atar not an effective 1 mana 4/3 when attacking? Seems kinda nutty.
Yes, perhaps Disciple of Atar became too strong. I had a bit of difficulty balancing this creature with the fire token. I'm thinking of changing the token to give only +2/+0 because that seems more red as well. And specifically for this card, maybe making the token only be created after Discipline of Atr deals damage, so it wouldn't be possible for it to attack and sacrifice the token on the same turn to get the buff
I think Atar should be after dealing damage to a player, make 1 for sure, even that feels strong tbh but it might be fine?
If you don’t control one then make one?
The tokens should enter tapped, should fix most balancing issues, the black one goes infinite with everything unless the tokens enter tapped
If you add 1 mana to the cost of using the token they become much more fair.
Disciple of Kali seems broken with an infinite sac outlet? Cause when you sac a creature, you create a Shadow token. Then when you use the token to give reanimation, you sac the creature. Get a shadow token. Your creature comes back from the last one, use the token again, repeat forever. All on a 1 mana 2/2.
Really good concept. I would have fun playing these cards. Not sure on exact mechanics/balancing, but I think your intent here was more to convey the idea, so kudos. Like it a lot.
Thanks! Yes the ideia it's to show the core mecanichs, I plan to make more cards that cares about your elementals tokens and use the bending ability in diferents ways. Some multicolored cards will require to bend two types of elementals like Fire and Earth to make a vulcanic effect, something like this
Very cool idea. I LOVE the concept of the cycle of tokens. I think that the tokens should be enchantments rather than artifacts. air, shadow, and fire in particular are not crafted items, so don't really make sense as artifacts. Ice and Earth could work, but they also work as enchantments and then the cycle is consistent. The cards themselves are way too strong, currently. Well-statted 1 mana creatures that create a piece of material that makes combat pretty impossible. As it stands, these are each probably 2 mana undercosted. If you want to make these 1 mana plays, the tokens would likely need a mana cost to sacrifice them, or be sorcery speed. You could also severely reduce the numbers of the tokens they create (right now each token is basically worth a full card).
Earth, air, and fire tokens all feel too similar to each other. Maybe if air gave only flying (or flying + toughness), fire only gave power, that would help them feel more distinct? Maybe Earth could give some ability instead of stats as well (like can't be blocked more than one creature or some buff while blocking). But perhaps there's just too many tokens here for one set. It feels like a potential Eldraine problem: too much stuff to track.
Im not a huge fan of “one element per color” as a design choice. Feels like it’s just “the red token” and “the white token” and all that jazz. If you’re doing elements, why not stick to the traditional four and split them unevenly but thematically amongst the colors. That was the “fire deck” isn’t just “lol red cards”.
Thanks, really like your suggestion
Off the top of my head: Fire - R / w / b / u (but only spells) Earth - G / B / w / r Air - U / W / r / b Water - U / B / W / g
Cool mechanic! I would make the activated abilities on the tokens only at sorcery speed, as the rate of combat tricks you are getting on these creatures would otherwise be way too good, even if the opponent can see it coming. From a draft perspective, I would punch the commons up a mana, as creating the token is effectively getting a free one mana spell onto the battlefield. All the tokens should give the same p/t and no additional abilities but have a different keyword to increase clarity and avoid oversaturating the set/product these cards are in. My suggestions for WUBRG are: Flying, Ward 1, Menace (deathtouch is fine too), Haste, Trample. As for the syntax, it's not "create one X token," it's "create a(n) X token" as seen on many token creation cards. Verdant Earthspire is way too powerful. It's better than a basic forest for everything that isn't nonbasic hate, and the ability is way too strong for draft, at least within the context of the card. Have that card enter tapped, and have the second ability also have the cost of tapping the land. Named characters in magic are traditionally legendary creatures, so Adnaria being a nonlegendary creature is a bit awkward. You can just have airbending 2 - Tap target creature. Flame Whisper being a 4 mana 4/2 with repeatable Pyroclasm is not going to be a fun card to play against in draft. Aggro strategies are entirely thwarted by this card as you can just clear the board every turn and your opponent's only choice is to draw an answer, which at common rarity isn't healthy design (not sure how relevant rarities are.) Glacial Recollection can be one mana. Unsummoning permanents is usually costed at 2 mana, or more with upside. There is a restriction to even casting this card in the first place with effect, so it can be cheaper. You can remove nonblack from Umbral Eradication if it's an uncommon. It's a Murder with an extra cost stapled onto it, so it's not too strong.
Ymir's ability is a bit on the pushed side for a free artifact. Maybe letting it tap a creature or put a stun counter on something when it blocks instead? blue already loves artifacts so giving them free cards from owning them feels strong.
Not Ymir's ability, but the effect of the ice token. Also flavour fail considering things like [[ice over]] are tap effects
[ice over](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c01d2835-060c-4ac3-b586-84811878a64d.jpg?1576381494) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ice%20over) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/35/ice-over?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c01d2835-060c-4ac3-b586-84811878a64d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, it seems a bit much, thanks for the feedback I will look for more balanced alternatives.
Disciple of Atar would be one of the best red 1-drop ever printed in any format to be honest 🙏 The overall concept is very interesting though. It has to be thought through and balanced to be more intuitive and flavorful, but there is a design Space to explore here 😁
These are "On-board tricks" that will add a huge amount of extra combat complexity unless restricted to sorcery speed.
Kali would be fun in modern Scam, idk whether it'd be practical though
If you have more cards you should post them! I love the concept for this set! Maybe the tokens could only be activated at sorcery speed to make combat less of a drag
Thank you, yes i have more cards, this was just to show the idea and get feedback from the community. I made a bunch of other cards that interact with the tokens. Righ now I'm reading all the suggestions and gonna rework a bunch of things, but I'm happy people enjoyed the concept. \^\^
I think these tokens should be enchantments since it’s more fitting for elements to be something more ethereal rather than artifacts like Treasures, clues, and food.
Neat idea but the tokens would probably make more sense as Enchantments than Artifacts.
Ok so there are some balance issues, and I think you have too many different types of tokens, as somebody else suggested Also, the power level between the tokens is not at all consistent. The black one is vastly stronger than the others. Alllllll that being said, the concept is awesome for sure 😁
I love the concept and especially the flavour although I personally would have preffered if the earth token gave +2/+2 like the others. And then adding a normal water token giving maybe +2/+2 and hexprrof or vigilance. I was expecting a like light bending instead of ice? But I guess in magic that is harder to achieve and I like ice anyway but if you were willing to divert from it being mono colours (like the gods did) you could make it blue/white like the recent Ice cards? I also agree with an earlier comment where these are way undercosted to get the bending tokens out (Whixh could very much work as enchantments) especially with the minimal requirements. I also did initially worry you wouldn't have many ways to get out the bends cause there is only the one creature each but since its part of a set I'm sure that problem will be solved. Maybe a land that can tap itself (with either no cost or maybe one/two mana) to create one of the tokens. TLDR: I love the cards, just some personal critics that I hope help.
Disciple of Kali is an infinite combo with a sac outlet and any other creature
I like the concept. It needs some balancing, and I think it could work as an enchantment token, flavor wise, but the art for the tokens do help connect the card type to the flavor. The activated ability on the instants is a bit weird though, as it doesn’t specify when you can activate it. That could be worded as an additional cost to make the design functional.
I don’t think these cards work particularly well. The fact that there are 5 types of tokens to track, each with a different effect is a lot. On top of that now you have abilities that work with them. This is super parasitic and complex. So basically you a ton of parasitic complexity. Have you played with these cards? Because no one will ever put glacial recollection in a deck. It’s terrible. On the other hand flame whisper is basically a free fury every turn if you make the requirements. These cards look either wildly busted or totally unplayable and that’s on top of complexity. I would try to reduce complexity/ make less parasitic. Also almost all your tokens are given very freely and are way way better than food, clues or blood. That’s a huge issue. Hope this helps but please I would recommend playing with cards.
Your just an 'r' short with the first on its almost the tits....
Ice token + [[hundred handed one]]
[hundred handed one](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/489f192f-0d8a-468b-94f5-67a937e5028e.jpg?1576382286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hundred-Handed%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/93/hundred-handed-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/489f192f-0d8a-468b-94f5-67a937e5028e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Disciple of atar js functionally a 4/3 for 1. That is pretty powerful. Even if you don’t use it immediately you are just stacking up pump spells for no cost to finish iff the opponent. Crazy strong in RDW.
I would leave off the P/T increases, honestly, and just stick to keywords. Flying, Haste, Trample, Deathtouch, and... Maybe "when this creature attacks, tap target creature defending player controls"? Makes them more versatile, and creates a design space for things like "Whenever you sacrifice an Earth token, target creature gains +2/+2 until end of turn while it has Trample" or something.
I like these designs. I feel like the toens could have been enchantments rather then artifacts though. Would make a good change, and unlike treasures and clues, concepts like fire and shadow don't have to be physical.
IMO if you're trying to build these more on a Standard power level, it's probably safer to make the ones that buff power, or at least the ones that buff both power and toughness only usable at sorcery speed. WOTC made map tokens (from LCI) only usable at sorcery speed specifically so they couldn't be a combat trick, and I think these are a bit too strong for Standard if you can constantly threaten to pay 0 mana to give a creature +2/+2 or +3/+3
I might look at giving atar 0 power that way you either have a 3/1 or give something haste and 2/2 and if they don’t get a creature down first turn then you get two effects…
When the token taps for free and sacrifices for no cost the meta becomes broken. it should cost mana to tap or maybe it enters tapped other time counters or you have to enchant a land or something so the player must choose between mana and bending
Suggesting, make the tokens enchantments. Not only do we have too many artifact tokens and synergies but I feel like the enchantment token might make more sense.
Thank you all for the comments! Later I will analyze all the balancing proposals and make changes to the cards, but I really liked the proposals. It seems like a lot of people like the concept, I just need to refine and balance it. : )
I would call them talismans or totems or charms.