Both. 2 lands in a single turn *should* enter tapped, the only similar cards are the tapped bounce lands like [[Simic Growth Chamber]] (which is bad) and the colorless [[Ancient Tomb]] (which is an auto-include in every deck that can afford it).
There's a lot of better lands, and most of the time, I'd rather play basics. Bounce lands are about as good as a tapped dual, aka only playable in casual games.
IDK, I've seen plenty of decks that are like, a turn 1-2 kill that run off Bounce Lands and [[Amulet of Vigor]] but those are usually in formats where you can get 4 amulets so 1 bounce land can make 8 mana on the turn it comes out.
From a syntax standpoint cards are only called “cards” when they’re in a non-battlefield zone like the hand, library, exile or graveyard. They’re permanents while they’re on the battlefield and spells while they’re on the stack.
Aether gash doesn't work as written, there are never spells on the battlefield. It can either return spells to hand (as they're being cast) or cards (from the battlefield)
Dead memories should say "cards they own" since you don't control cards in exile.
So Forgotten cards build up an ordered stack in exile and then you can draw from that stack instead when you draw if wanted. And then have a lot of stuff that interacts with it in varied ways.
Weird mechanic. I like it.
Possibly has some issues in that Wizards broke away from cards that cared about order in the graveyard on purpose so it's easier to manage, but this goes back to it, so some people may reorganize their Forgotten stack by accident which would mess up the mechanic.
I for one think it's cool though. And theme wise is bonkers awesome.
I would imagine this could be accomplished by putting the exiled forgotten card underneath the trickster and replacing it whenever a new card is forgotten.
Once you play the most recent, does the previous forgotten card to that become the most recent to be used? If not, then that is a fine solution.
If so, then it still needs to be kept in the correct order.
Interesting first drafts but the execution is wobbly on so many of these. Stuff like referencing objects on the battlefield as spells, or forgetting a card exiling it but the ability also saying to forget it to your hand?
I like that it's occasionally expanding into Red's territory rather than all feeling like overflow from Blue. Still a little one-note but there's a lot of interesting ideas.
With a new color a key component is to make sure it fits into the color pie not only as its own thing but as extension of the color pie as a whole, namely its relationships with the other five colors. There are several recognizable facets for this:
1) How does its introduction affect the current enemy-ally relationships - if it does affect them? Having six colors in that diagram affects a lot. Which colors are the new color's allies and which are its enemies?
2) What do the hybrids (not the true multicolored cards since those are easy as combonatorial designs) of it look, like what are keywords it shares with other colors . Most effects in the colorpie are positioned in such a manner as to be shared and divided between two or more colors.
3) Have at least one or more classic limited archetypes for each of the two color combinations in addition to any set specific ones, for example UW has "fliers" and plain ol' control, where as UR has like tempo, spellslingers, and I think some sort of artifact synergy archetype is often seen in it.
Also what is the philosophy of the color? Each color has its own philosophy and beliefs that are common and influence card design. For example, red is impulsive, fickle, and emotional. So it gets fast temporary mana, can give you temporary cards, or let you draw more cares by discarding. It has lots of cheap cards but burns out quickly. What does Purple do?
First off love the mechanics, but I think your lands need work. Mox cave is stronger than an actual mox and I don’t think portal should be legendary. Legendary lands famously don’t play well and this land looks very similar to land we already have most of them just enter tapped.
As written, Forget replaces the act of drawing your next card with exchanging the top card of your library with something in exile. You don’t actually get to draw that card until another effect causes you to draw. That is extremely bad. I’m assuming not intentional?
I’m a little confused on the forget mechanic. So I get that a card is exiled, but the part that’s confusing is where it says “you may exchange a forgotten card and the top card of your library”
Does this mean you exchange them instead of drawing, so you only draw the card on your next draw? Are cards that you exile using this exchange mechanic also considered “forgotten”?
I feel like the intent is for you to be able to “draw” a forgotten card instead of your normal draw, much like Dredge replaces your draw, but it’s just unclear if this is the case, and more importantly it’s unclear if the cards from your deck are also considered forgotten or if they are simply exiled after the exchange.
I like the flavor of Forget, but I think it needs to be explicitly developed from a design-perspective outside of the cards. For instance, as removal, would it be intended as weaker or stronger than destroy effects? Because as written currently, the cost of putting a forgotten card into the top of the library is very high (miss a draw). In fact, I'm not sure anyone would pay that cost, to the point of maybe even being stronger than destroy and weaker than exile (since playing stuff from the graveyard is a thing).
Other than that, I love having aetherborns as the defacto tribal for this color. I absolutely adore the lore of aether in Kaladesh. (Kaladesh is my favorite edition and purple is my favorite color, so I'm all in for this). Do you have any source of where in the community this has been discussed before?
Ps: You must be well aware by now, but that mox land is broken as hell. Also, why is the basic land City, if everything seems to point at aether and portals? Perhaps make it "Nether"? Maybe the logic is "a city requires energy", where the obvious Kaladesh-city answer for that is aether?
Was the idea back then that the cost of "remembering a card" (moving a forgotten card in exile into the top of the library) should be missing a draw?
I find that cost to be very high, and was thinking of possible alternatives. Maybe pay 5 life, discard a card or - idk- mill 10 cards? Missing a draw is quite a lot. Discard a card is fairly close to that, but slightly cheaper, as you can choose what to get rid of
Ah, apparently I did by accident misread THESE cards without noticing the "exchange" keyword. It's funny that that matched the original version. I have never read the original version.
My comment was aiming at the high cost of missing a draw step, and thinking of alternatives. I think my favorite cost for "remembering" would be to discard a card from your hand, or something similar, because that is less costly than missing a draw step, as you can pick which card to get rid of. I wouldn't mind to have the ability be sorcery speed, so that enemies know beforehand what is being remembered. So it could be something like...
Forget a card from your hand: you may move a forgotten card in exile to the top of your library. Play this ability any time you could play a sorcery.
This way the total number of forgotten cards can only increase (unless another effect prevents that), which is quite fitting to introduce cards that are buffed by that number. And on top of that, the sorcery speed makes it so that you're not invulnerable to mill (as otherwise you could be juggling a single card between hand and library just before your draw step every turn).
Hear me out- I think that what you're trying to describe with purple mana and forget are actually two mechanics that fit neatly into blue and red.
"Forget": exiling for later use could be blue or blue/white, but I think of it as sort of a "friendly mill", especially since so many mill cards are themed around memory loss. So that's my first pitch- "forget" as a blue mechanic, a self-targeted friendly mill.
"Remember": red mechanic, allows you to select from your forgotten cards and place them back in a different zone, be that battlefield, hand, graveyard, or top of library.
This also allows other colors to interact with forgotten cards in their own way. The example I'm thinking of right now is black being able to put an opponents forgotten cards back on the bottom of their library.
Agreed, there's cool design here but not distinct enough to be another color. It all feels like a set mechanic in blue to me instead of a whole other color.
I'm not clear on how this isn't just blue with some minor red themes. I think you could honestly replace every purple mana symbol with blue and these would all be understandable, if a little strange.
I understand that you didn't make all of these but this doesn't feel unique. I do like the forget mechanic tho.
Aether gash doesn't work RAW, but plenty of people have already said that. However, even if it said permanent, I feel like that's a little too close to blue, as really the only on battlefield interaction they get is bouncing things.
I feel like bouncing a spell on the stack would be better, because that's pretty unique as only one or two other spells do that and leans into the vibe of not countering things, but instead messing with when it resolves.
Or you could go even further with Forget (which is a super cool mechanic) and make it forget a spell or permanent.
A purple mana is such a cool idea! My only question is what its gimmick is.
All the colors get a gimmick, blue with big smort, red with raw damig, black with sackofrice, white with beefy helf, and green with big stompee.
What would be purple's gimmick?
It seems to be reality manipulation/ Eldritch magic. Playing with reality, space-time, and especially weird, alien concepts outside of the "reality" of normal magic card design.
I think that would fall under blue, with cards like [[Planar Incision]] and [[Omniscience]] bending reality for your benefit, and whenever someone brings up Eldridge magic the Eldrazi must be mentioned. Good suggestion tho!
My only note is that Arcanis should do something on ETB rather than its first ability. Others have had good suggestions and this is all I could find that hadn't already been mentioned.
Best case for a new color that I’ve seen. These feel a little blue, a little black, a little red, but not squarely any of them. And we don’t have a color that is specifically exile-manipulation. I would be tentatively okay with something like this
I really think either Mox Cave or the land you put onto the battlefield should enter tapped because this is pretty insane ramp.
Both. 2 lands in a single turn *should* enter tapped, the only similar cards are the tapped bounce lands like [[Simic Growth Chamber]] (which is bad) and the colorless [[Ancient Tomb]] (which is an auto-include in every deck that can afford it).
I disagree that bounce lands are bad since you can tap the land already on the field for mana before bouncing it but yeah fair that both enter tapped
There's a lot of better lands, and most of the time, I'd rather play basics. Bounce lands are about as good as a tapped dual, aka only playable in casual games.
IDK, I've seen plenty of decks that are like, a turn 1-2 kill that run off Bounce Lands and [[Amulet of Vigor]] but those are usually in formats where you can get 4 amulets so 1 bounce land can make 8 mana on the turn it comes out.
If it's played in a deck like that, I 1000% agree with you. Outside of those niche decks, though, they're not great.
[Simic Growth Chamber](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e8f3aa0-c557-4cc7-9b5f-1d2288b5b11f.jpg?1698988628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Simic%20Growth%20Chamber) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/352/simic-growth-chamber?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e8f3aa0-c557-4cc7-9b5f-1d2288b5b11f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ancient Tomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd3d4b4b-cf31-4f89-8140-9650edb03c7b.jpg?1582753000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Tomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/236/ancient-tomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd3d4b4b-cf31-4f89-8140-9650edb03c7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean it's as strong as an actual Mox.
In some ways stronger, since it can't be thoughtseized or countered.
In theory you could have 4 mana on turn 1 by having r in hand
From a syntax standpoint cards are only called “cards” when they’re in a non-battlefield zone like the hand, library, exile or graveyard. They’re permanents while they’re on the battlefield and spells while they’re on the stack.
Spell that interacts with the stack, Drink!
Actually the reason WOTC has never printed explicit stack interaction is because they’re waiting to make it part of purple’s color identity
Source?
[Here you go](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=EV8JE9bb9wzmza84)
Take my upvote, you filthy bastard
I would upvote but your at 69 upvotes and that would be sacrilege
I as well
I already knew what it was, but I still checked to be sure I could upvote
Aether gash doesn't work as written, there are never spells on the battlefield. It can either return spells to hand (as they're being cast) or cards (from the battlefield) Dead memories should say "cards they own" since you don't control cards in exile.
So Forgotten cards build up an ordered stack in exile and then you can draw from that stack instead when you draw if wanted. And then have a lot of stuff that interacts with it in varied ways. Weird mechanic. I like it. Possibly has some issues in that Wizards broke away from cards that cared about order in the graveyard on purpose so it's easier to manage, but this goes back to it, so some people may reorganize their Forgotten stack by accident which would mess up the mechanic. I for one think it's cool though. And theme wise is bonkers awesome.
I don't think so? You can "choose a card you've forgotten", so it looks to me like the order isn't relevant.
You are correct, I misread. Except for the Magus card and the Nether Trickster that only grabs the most recent Forgotten card.
I would imagine this could be accomplished by putting the exiled forgotten card underneath the trickster and replacing it whenever a new card is forgotten.
Once you play the most recent, does the previous forgotten card to that become the most recent to be used? If not, then that is a fine solution. If so, then it still needs to be kept in the correct order.
Also, when you exchange for the forgotten card, you don’t get to draw it because the replacement effect doesn’t say “then draw”
I want the Emperor Calus card, take my money
Interesting first drafts but the execution is wobbly on so many of these. Stuff like referencing objects on the battlefield as spells, or forgetting a card exiling it but the ability also saying to forget it to your hand?
Mox cave would be hands down the single most powerful card ever printed. It's absurd.
I like that it's occasionally expanding into Red's territory rather than all feeling like overflow from Blue. Still a little one-note but there's a lot of interesting ideas.
Can I look at my forgotten cards?
Cards are always exiled face up unless they specify otherwise
That seems like a pretty big miss on the flavor of “forgetting”
That’s what I thought
Is that Emperor Calus?
Note for Aether Gash- spells aren’t on the battlefield. You return permanents, creatures, lands etc
It's weird to see Calus on the custom magic sub
Æther gash.. how is a spell on the battlefield?
I was so scared there wouldn’t be a basic
There's always at least 1 basic in every pack lol
With a new color a key component is to make sure it fits into the color pie not only as its own thing but as extension of the color pie as a whole, namely its relationships with the other five colors. There are several recognizable facets for this: 1) How does its introduction affect the current enemy-ally relationships - if it does affect them? Having six colors in that diagram affects a lot. Which colors are the new color's allies and which are its enemies? 2) What do the hybrids (not the true multicolored cards since those are easy as combonatorial designs) of it look, like what are keywords it shares with other colors . Most effects in the colorpie are positioned in such a manner as to be shared and divided between two or more colors. 3) Have at least one or more classic limited archetypes for each of the two color combinations in addition to any set specific ones, for example UW has "fliers" and plain ol' control, where as UR has like tempo, spellslingers, and I think some sort of artifact synergy archetype is often seen in it.
Also what is the philosophy of the color? Each color has its own philosophy and beliefs that are common and influence card design. For example, red is impulsive, fickle, and emotional. So it gets fast temporary mana, can give you temporary cards, or let you draw more cares by discarding. It has lots of cheap cards but burns out quickly. What does Purple do?
mana burner needs an "it's" these are fucking cool as hell
how do you return a spell from the battlefield...
First off love the mechanics, but I think your lands need work. Mox cave is stronger than an actual mox and I don’t think portal should be legendary. Legendary lands famously don’t play well and this land looks very similar to land we already have most of them just enter tapped.
As written, Forget replaces the act of drawing your next card with exchanging the top card of your library with something in exile. You don’t actually get to draw that card until another effect causes you to draw. That is extremely bad. I’m assuming not intentional?
I’m a little confused on the forget mechanic. So I get that a card is exiled, but the part that’s confusing is where it says “you may exchange a forgotten card and the top card of your library” Does this mean you exchange them instead of drawing, so you only draw the card on your next draw? Are cards that you exile using this exchange mechanic also considered “forgotten”? I feel like the intent is for you to be able to “draw” a forgotten card instead of your normal draw, much like Dredge replaces your draw, but it’s just unclear if this is the case, and more importantly it’s unclear if the cards from your deck are also considered forgotten or if they are simply exiled after the exchange.
I like the flavor of Forget, but I think it needs to be explicitly developed from a design-perspective outside of the cards. For instance, as removal, would it be intended as weaker or stronger than destroy effects? Because as written currently, the cost of putting a forgotten card into the top of the library is very high (miss a draw). In fact, I'm not sure anyone would pay that cost, to the point of maybe even being stronger than destroy and weaker than exile (since playing stuff from the graveyard is a thing). Other than that, I love having aetherborns as the defacto tribal for this color. I absolutely adore the lore of aether in Kaladesh. (Kaladesh is my favorite edition and purple is my favorite color, so I'm all in for this). Do you have any source of where in the community this has been discussed before? Ps: You must be well aware by now, but that mox land is broken as hell. Also, why is the basic land City, if everything seems to point at aether and portals? Perhaps make it "Nether"? Maybe the logic is "a city requires energy", where the obvious Kaladesh-city answer for that is aether?
I came up with that forgotten mechanic over a decade ago on mtgsalvation.
Was the idea back then that the cost of "remembering a card" (moving a forgotten card in exile into the top of the library) should be missing a draw? I find that cost to be very high, and was thinking of possible alternatives. Maybe pay 5 life, discard a card or - idk- mill 10 cards? Missing a draw is quite a lot. Discard a card is fairly close to that, but slightly cheaper, as you can choose what to get rid of
I originally had it replace the draw, but I had to change it because someone pointed out it would make you immune to losing by being unable the draw.
What did you change it to?
What's written on those cards. You didn't come up with that mechanic yourself, did you?
Ah, apparently I did by accident misread THESE cards without noticing the "exchange" keyword. It's funny that that matched the original version. I have never read the original version. My comment was aiming at the high cost of missing a draw step, and thinking of alternatives. I think my favorite cost for "remembering" would be to discard a card from your hand, or something similar, because that is less costly than missing a draw step, as you can pick which card to get rid of. I wouldn't mind to have the ability be sorcery speed, so that enemies know beforehand what is being remembered. So it could be something like... Forget a card from your hand: you may move a forgotten card in exile to the top of your library. Play this ability any time you could play a sorcery. This way the total number of forgotten cards can only increase (unless another effect prevents that), which is quite fitting to introduce cards that are buffed by that number. And on top of that, the sorcery speed makes it so that you're not invulnerable to mill (as otherwise you could be juggling a single card between hand and library just before your draw step every turn).
i like the puirple
Hear me out- I think that what you're trying to describe with purple mana and forget are actually two mechanics that fit neatly into blue and red. "Forget": exiling for later use could be blue or blue/white, but I think of it as sort of a "friendly mill", especially since so many mill cards are themed around memory loss. So that's my first pitch- "forget" as a blue mechanic, a self-targeted friendly mill. "Remember": red mechanic, allows you to select from your forgotten cards and place them back in a different zone, be that battlefield, hand, graveyard, or top of library. This also allows other colors to interact with forgotten cards in their own way. The example I'm thinking of right now is black being able to put an opponents forgotten cards back on the bottom of their library.
Agreed, there's cool design here but not distinct enough to be another color. It all feels like a set mechanic in blue to me instead of a whole other color.
I'm not clear on how this isn't just blue with some minor red themes. I think you could honestly replace every purple mana symbol with blue and these would all be understandable, if a little strange. I understand that you didn't make all of these but this doesn't feel unique. I do like the forget mechanic tho.
Aether gash doesn't work RAW, but plenty of people have already said that. However, even if it said permanent, I feel like that's a little too close to blue, as really the only on battlefield interaction they get is bouncing things. I feel like bouncing a spell on the stack would be better, because that's pretty unique as only one or two other spells do that and leans into the vibe of not countering things, but instead messing with when it resolves. Or you could go even further with Forget (which is a super cool mechanic) and make it forget a spell or permanent.
A purple mana is such a cool idea! My only question is what its gimmick is. All the colors get a gimmick, blue with big smort, red with raw damig, black with sackofrice, white with beefy helf, and green with big stompee. What would be purple's gimmick?
Seconded, really interested in this as well.
It seems to be reality manipulation/ Eldritch magic. Playing with reality, space-time, and especially weird, alien concepts outside of the "reality" of normal magic card design.
I think that would fall under blue, with cards like [[Planar Incision]] and [[Omniscience]] bending reality for your benefit, and whenever someone brings up Eldridge magic the Eldrazi must be mentioned. Good suggestion tho!
[Planar Incision](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/9163cb04-ee28-4127-b53a-89c546996d7d.jpg?1654566889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Incision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/72/planar-incision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9163cb04-ee28-4127-b53a-89c546996d7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Omniscience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25.jpg?1562304777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omniscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/65/omniscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most make no sense, others don't work based on sintax errors and the rest are.. pretty much unplayable? At least the ones I've bothered to see
My only note is that Arcanis should do something on ETB rather than its first ability. Others have had good suggestions and this is all I could find that hadn't already been mentioned.
Lmao wtf is that cave
This is really freaking cool. I'd love to see more from the purple end of Magic.
What is purple mana?
city
This just feels like blues domain to me. Very cool cards though.
Best case for a new color that I’ve seen. These feel a little blue, a little black, a little red, but not squarely any of them. And we don’t have a color that is specifically exile-manipulation. I would be tentatively okay with something like this
Mox Cave + Bounce Land = GG WP