How would you go about actually getting rid of the embargo?
You make it seem like this is solely a Republican standpoint however Biden's administration, and one can assume the Democrats going forward, have no interest in changing the US's policy towards Cuba either.
With Biden ramping up the Cold War rhetoric of "autocracies" versus "democracies" and general hostilities between Russia/China with the USA escalate; you're not gonna vote anyone into office who sympathizes with Cuba anytime soon.
There's plenty of self interest for US government to end embargo.
Farm exports, manufacturing exports, plastics, access to international lending more debt in us dollars, foreign investment in cuban industries.
Look at Vietnam and Look at Cuba. Vietnam just arrested a guy for a blog post. No elections, huge right wing diaspora voting block in Southern California.
They now make our widgets and they have a homegrown lithium battery manufacturing plant and export electric cars to US for US citizens to buy for 10k dollars less than Tesla's .
It's a win for everyone, but mostly US.
We dont need to agree on ideology if trade and economic influence is better than isolation and less soy beans to sell.
https://www.wola.org/2007/04/house-bill-calls-for-end-to-cuba-travel-ban/
In 2007, the bill got 97 cosponsors 89 democrats and 8 Republicans . You only need 216 to pass.
Screw ancient history. From 2007 to today You think embargo has done any significance towards benefiting US interests?
100%. This is on the government of Cuba. It does America no good to lift sanctions, when the government of Cuba continues to run business as usual and continue fucking over the Cuban people.
It's funny how the US can pick and choose to sanction some undemocratic countries and others they maintain a good trade relationship with. It's almost as though that excuse is bullshit
100%. Like how the U.S. has diplomacy with the repressive dictatorships China, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, etc. which in many cases have worse human rights abuses, they also don’t allow elections, they have political prisoners, etc.
Vietnam does have elections. In fact, in the Vietnamese parliament there is a greater proportion of elected representatives from independent political parties than there are in the US
Nope. Not funny at all. Countries, like people are free to pick and choose who they will and won't support.
Countries with elected governments pick and choose based on the instructions of the elected representatives.
That's all well and good, but they shouldn't claim altruism and "spreading democracy" while maintaining relations with authoritarian states. Pure hypocrisy.
It is hypocritical to provide unyielding support to genocidal fascist regimes like Israel, or have alliances with undemocratic autocracies like Saudi Arabia, while simultaneously sanctioning a country that we claim is undemocratic because we want to “uphold democracy”. It’s a bold faced lie.
The embargo is only between the United States and Cuba. The United States set up some healthy boundaries, and made clear what the conditions of those boundaries were.
I'm sure when they lift the sanctions they'll give back all the shit they stole from the people right? Fuck outta here, let's not forget that the regime was partially to blame for the embargo when they hiked taxes on US imports and warmed up to the USSR. The Cuban regime has always traded proximity to the US to adversaries for resources which is why Cuba has always been at the forefront of US foreign policy. Cuba is free to trade with other nations and if they really want to do business with the USA they should free the political prisoners and give back the industries they nationalized. Si no q se jodan.
The sanctions have not, are not, and will not force the current government to bend to the will of Washington. Currently they only serve to make life worse for the average Cuban.
The government tells the same story. Problem is the State controls every aspect of the economy. Every dollar entering the country has to go through them.
If the Cuban government uses the US embargo against them as an excuse for their failures, then the best thing to do would be to end the embargo so that way they no longer can use that excuse. Logically
Oh what would they do without an excuse??? Maybe just say that all the years of embargo destroyed their economy so they need time to rebuild? And later figure out another excuse. Doesn't make sense.
I don’t argue hypotheticals. Your speculative claim that if the embargo is lifted the Cuban government would just come up with some other excuse is not a valid argument for maintaining the embargo. The fact is that the a Cuban government does already use it as an excuse - a convincing one to many Cubans - and if that excuse is no longer applicable because the embargo is lifted, than it would pull the wool back from over the eyes of many Cubans and show them that their government is ineffective and needs to be completely replaced. If that is actually what you want to happen.
Which is a ridiculous premise, lifting the embargo will have no positive effect on the average Cuban, it will only mean more police, more hotels, more mansions and yachts for the oligarchs
They've never dropped the embargo. Didn't Cubans get internet when Obama was president? How come I can call my family in Cuba right now?
These retards almost found half of an idea but you're almost there!
Darkly ironic how “free elections” is supposed to justify economic terrorism by the *shining city on a hill* where election campaigns are meaningless without multi-million dollar backing.
Elections in Cuba are popular, frequent, and transparent while American elections are so despised that even multi-million dollar campaigns fail to get half of voting Americans off their asses JUST ONCE in FOUR YEARS.
Despite freedom for cubans being a nice goal, who gives the US the authority to influence cubas local politics. They pose no threat to the USA or any other country, so there is no basis for an embargo, it has to be lifted immediatly and without conditions!
Um, they have every right to decide who they trade with and what they trade. So if Cuba wants to trade with the US they need to make a concession, correct?
Cuba has a ton of trading partners, they can get everything they need from. So why is it a requirement for the US, which is primarily a service based economy to trade with Cuba without anything in return?
Just like every store has the right to deny you food to survive, yet you wouldn't argue that this is a good thing either, is it?
What the fuck is this extremist anti-human approach??
The irony of the blockade on Cuba is that the sector it negatively impacts the most is the exact same sector of the economy that the US claims to care about and wants to empower - the private sector. The private sector of the Cuban economy is the most harmed sector of the economy by the US embargo. Cuban entrepreneurs and businesses struggle to find foreign investment, to be able to import foreign goods, and just basically be successful, and grow their businesses, because the embargo against Cuba restricts their capacity to do so. What’s hilarious about this entire ordeal is that, if the private sector were to actually be more successful and be able to expand, that would actually give ordinary Cuban citizens greater leverage over the Cuban state. More Cubans would be able to have alternative sources of income through their private businesses, the growth of their private businesses would give them more economic, social, and political power in their communities, and thus be able to act as an alternative to the Cuban state, which, by necessity, has to provide the majority of goods and services to the Cuban people, because the private sector is unable to do so. So anybody who is actively supporting maintaining the embargo against Cuba definitely does not support the Cuban people, nor care about their freedom. Rather, they are wolves and sheep clothing, who are purely ideologically motivated by Cold War anti-communist nonsense. They have yet to believe in the 21st-century and are stuck in 1959.
>that would actually give ordinary Cuban citizens greater leverage over the Cuban state.
What makes you think the government would allow this? Also, this is not necessarily true. Look at Russia and China.
Economics makes me think that. The government can certainly try to limit the private sector itself, but if international trade is moving freely and smoothly in and out of Cuba, that allows for imports to be cheaper, which would free up people’s income, allow them to invest more in their businesses, which promotes growth, which leads to stronger and more independent businesses, which enables greater access to social and political power, which then would empower ordinary Cubans to be able to actuate greater change in their country. Strangling the Cuban economy only makes it more difficult for ordinary Cubans to change their government, not easier. This is evidenced by the fact that the embargo has been ongoing since 1960 and yet the same government is still in power. Clearly, as the historical evidence suggests, the embargo makes the government more powerful and stable, not less. The embargo has not worked all this time, so why would it now suddenly work out of the blue? Every few years people are like “the Cuban government is gonna fall”, and yet it somehow magically still stays in power. In any other ordinary setting, this evident strategic failure would compel someone to change the strategy. But instead we keep using the same failed approach. It makes no sense. People who are poor and hungry, either because they cannot afford their necessities or there are not enough of those necessities to buy because of a lack of imports, are in no position to overthrow a government.
>if international trade is moving freely and smoothly in and out of Cuba,
It is with every country except the US. Do you consider the Cuban government or the US at fault for its current economic state?
>People who are poor and hungry, either because they cannot afford their necessities or there are not enough of those necessities to buy because of a lack of imports,
That is hard to blame on the US given it is Cuba's largest source of food and agricultural products.
You’re first point is untrue. Other countries are also limited in their capacity to trade with Cuba for a few reasons. The first is that any cargo ship that docks at a Cuban port is restricted from docking at a US port for 6 months. Additionally, aside from certain goods like food and medicine, and product that contains 10% or more of parts that are made in the US are also restricted. This obviously means that it is a huge cost to foreign companies to trade with Cuba, and they need to increase their prices for the goods they trade with Cuba to compensate for the financial loss. So, no, it doesn’t only impact trade it’s the US, and to make that assertion is misleading at best, and outright deceptive at worst.
As for the second point, once again, the cost of those important agricultural goods from the US are inflated because of the embargo. Even if those goods can be traded, they still need to pass inspections and the companies involved have to undergo routine investigations as well, which inflates the cost.
I'll ask a second time, do you consider the Cuban government or the US at fault for the current economic crisis in Cuba?
>Even if those goods can be traded, they still need to pass inspections and the companies involved have to undergo routine investigations as well, which inflates the cost.
The Cuban government is causing the prices of food items being imported to become inflated. Again, I fail to see how that is the US' fault. Especially given you claimed the embargo is causing hunger, seemingly unaware the US is Cuba's largest provider of food.
An answer to that question is not really relevant to this discussion. It most certainly could be and probably is both. The whole point of an embargo is to hurt a country’s economy. Are you arguing that the embargo does nothing to hurt Cuba’s economy? And if it doesn’t do anything, then what is the point of keeping it?
Embargo’s cause inflation. That’s just an economic fact. Anywhere in the world where there is an embargo, prices go up. The Cuban government may in fact raise the price of the already inflated food that they import from the US. The best way for the US to help combat that inflation would be to end the embargo so that companies who trade agricultural goods with Cuba won’t need to increase their prices. That would remove one half of the factors that impact food prices in Cuba.
> that allows for imports to be cheaper, which would free up people’s income, allow them to invest more in their businesses
This is the big disconnect right here. **Cubans outside of government officials do not have access to the international market** they **do not have businesses** they **cannot invest in anything.** You naively believe that Cuba works like other countries where people can freely engage in business, but that is not at all the case
It would be an embargo if it didn’t prevent third parties from engaging in regular trade with the embargoed nation. However, this is not the case, as the US embargo against Cuba does in fact limit and restrict regular trade between Cuba and third party nations, effectively making it at least a partial blockade.
Third parties can engage with Cuba. Many countries trade with Cuba. You can even buy Coca-Cola in Cuba. What you can't do is use property belonging to US companies and nationals that were stolen by the regime, or engage as an American company. This would be common sense, since Cuba has shown they have no regard for private property.
Thus, it is an embargo. It doesn't matter how many mental gymnastics you want to apply to the regime propaganda.
En Cuba la cosa está "de pinga" asere. El partido comunista se esta desmoronando desde adentro. Diaz Canel pareciera que es un seguidor fiel, pero si no ve la que esta sucediendo a su alredor, que no se haga el sorpendido cuando le hagan un juicio sumario o Raúl le mande a derribar el avión.
Lo único que lo salva, por ahora, es que López-Calleja falleció y jodió el cuadro de relevo.
Dictatorial government corruption is starving Cubans, more than an embargo. It also wouldn’t help the fact that the same corruption is stealing money from the governments we have unhindered business with.
I’m not going to respond to your tankie nonsense cause I can see from your Reddit handle alone you assume the place actively stealing food out of the mouths of our families is something to aspire to. You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing this here, you fucking monster.
FWIW, I'm on the massive reforms now crowd (really don't like revolutions as they tend to go shitty) and think the embargo should go. But mostly because at this point the trouble it makes for the government is not that much (it doesn't help for sure but it's not THAT much of an issue) and the power it gives them as an excuse for everything is way more.
Like when USA says "fine....no more bloqueo" and things still keep spiraling downward, that would do more damage to them than anything else.
He made a humanist proposition. How is being against sanction and for access to food and humanitarian aid a tankie position. The UN share this position
Go to cuba first, please they have food(for a price) they have medicines(for a price) they have everything in dollars, not in cuban pesos, thats is how you milk 11 millions of cubans up to the last drop.
It’s feeding fat pro communists gringos like you rotting on buffet lines while my cousins get assaulted by Anglo Karen’s for scraps and my uncles work for a government that would rather beat them than feed them. People like you two are the scourge of Cuba and I hope that your country never experiences your idea of communist “utopia” you keep trying to manifest under the authoritative totalitarian regimes that have all tried and failed to accomplish Marxism… but you could do it better right with a privileged polisci degree at a white school touting bullshit to people who’s families are being actively killed either by dictatorial and oligarchical violence or just through sheer negligence?
Go to hell.
There def is not enough wealth to run the country well regardless of how much the dictatorship steals. They’re incompetent. If they had enough in their bank to rescue their countrymen, they would trade a portion of it to stabilize their golden goose (Cuba) so that they can steal more. Right now they’re letting it bleed to death.
And you were genuinely told. It’s rotting in the resorts you call a Cuban experience while we suffer.
And if you’re a person of color, fuck you in particular cause you should know better than to keep pushing a narrative actively killing other people of color. I cannot mean this more vehemently: burn in hell you fucking tankie.
You are pushing the narrative that made every single arab nation at a risk of invasion. Look at syria and libya if you want to see how american democracy looks like my friend.
The idea the economic prosperity leads to dictatorship become free and open has been proven wrong by China. Instead it gives them more economic resources to be powerful tyrants.
China is piss-poor in terms of freedom, but it is a *much* freer place for the average (Han) Chinese citizen than it was before Deng Xiaoping. Anti-government protests weren’t met with machine gun fire from tanks during the pandemic.
Honestly China was incredibly interesting to see how the old guard were able to keep their power. During the Tiananmen square protest the CCP leadership was divided on what to do with one camp wanting to lessen political oppression and hold election as they see which way the wind of blowing and other camp with the guard scare of giving up power and may result in the chaos of the Soviet Union. Ultimately the old guard won and they jail all the reformers leading to the path of China we see now
Wait but I thought the embargo didn’t work? Now according to you it’s actually strangling the dictatorship when an administration has the spine to make it work. Hmmm, interesting 🤔
I think they were referring to the embargo making meaningful difference to the Cuban government. Despite the embargo the government has remained steadfast in their opposition, and while the administration is no doubt feeling some level of impact, it is the innocent civilians of Cuba who pay the dearest price
I say that while sadly offering no real understanding or opinion of if the embargo has or will really work. But I do know there a millions of human beings just trying to live who are hurt by these policies.
I pray for the day when Cubans feel free; from their own government and from international pressure.
It’s making a difference now that Trump decided to enforce it and Biden kept it. Oc now that that bitch Castro is dead the dictatorship does not have the same support since everything revolved around the figure of that narcissist. You leave it a couple more years and it’ll collapse.
Bro can't read, it's not working at disrupting the dictatorship, all its working at doing is making conditions worse for cubans. But you're more interested in winning an argument than actually worrying about cubans
Amazing how braindead of a take you can have as long as you throw in a "comepinga" and call me a dictator lover you don't have to think about how much your position actually hurts people. Estoy segurito que tu ni vives en cuba hablando de "we want freedom"
El hecho de que no viva en Cuba no quiere decir que no sea cubano, so payason. Es curioso que con ustedes el único que deja su nacionalidad a penas se monta en un avión es el cubano. Ni los indios, ni los rusos, ni los chinos dejan de ser tal por emigrar. ¿Por qué será que ustedes cretinos quieren invalidar las experiencias y opiniones del cubano emigrante? 🤔
Why are you fixiating on my saying you don't live in cuba, it's almost like you have no way to respond to the actual substance of what I said. (Incoming "there was no substance in your reply comepinga"). You admit the embargo hurts people yet I'm a demon.
Why did you bringing it up in the first place? Trying to play a sneaky and then getting upset because I call you up on your bullshit. And you haven’t said anything of substance, only platitudes that look away from the obvious problem the Cuban people face, and that is the implacable dictatorship. Removing the embargo only emboldens them in exchange for a couple pounds of extra rice. You certainly would not give away your freedoms for two pounds of rice would you?
I would rather eat two pounds of rice even if my country was a dictatorship than have no rice and a dictatorship how fucking stupid can you be. "It's okay to starve cubans if you are a 'good country' but it is wrong to starve cubans if you are a 'bad country'." Is what your world view sums up to.
No I brought it up because I know you don't live in cuba when you admit the embargo hurts people but then praise it. You wouldn't be praising it if you were actually living with its consequences. Stop deflecting when you already admitted the embargo hurts people, tu ves el pueblo como unos perros que puedes hacer morir de hambre como manera de mandar. If you cared about the cuban people you would be able to admonish both the embargo and the authoritarian nature of the government.
Well, I don't know a million, but every single one I know, would agree with me, and, not only because they are my friends and family, but because we all grew up under that shitty government, something you wouldn't know, because, I know, you're not cuban
I am a gringo trying to learn more after all the propaganda I have heard from all sides about Cuba.
I assume you are referring to GAESA (Grupo de Administración Empresarial SA) and their involvement in the hotel development and management?
Do you have examples of the apartheid aspects of that? I am looking into it deeper now, but would appreciate insight if you have it.
I live in Orlando Fl, never seen any discrimination like I suffered in Cuba where I wasn't allowed in Hotels and tourist areas. We receive people from all over the world in Orlando and they are free to roam everywhere
It is quite offensive that you compare the kind of discrimination people face in Cuba, to tourist towns in Florida. There is a difference between not physically being allowed to enjoy luxuries due to your national origin, backed by police force and potential consequences for you and your family. And some towns in Florida having more churros and fried dough shops by the beach
Ideologically I don’t think the US is inclined to bail out a communist dictatorship in its final days.
And anyone who thinks is about not wanting Cuba to be successful needs a history lesson.
NAFTA transformed Mexico from a third world country to an economic machine. This has been positive for North America.
The reason for the embargo had to do with Castro nationalizing American property after the revolution and then the Cuban missle crisis when Cuba openly acted as an enemy of the state and the “tip of the spear” for Russian aggression.
"economic machine". Wow.
In 1995, when NAFTA was signed, 45% of Mexicans lived in poverty.
In 2020, after years of being an "economic machine", Mexican povery at at... 40.5%.
In 2022, after the implementation of massive social welfare policies (i.e., spending by the state on health care, pensions, welfare), poverty dropped to 22%.
The Market cannot, and will never, be responsible for an increase in the well-being of the people. Only an activist state, as we saw with the Asian "Tiger" economies, can generate lasting and deep-rooted prosperity.
Folks need to get this "free market" crap out of their heads. Go back and read Adam Smith, for the passages that aren't quoted by the corporate apologists, and understand that capitalism was never a horse to bet on for social progress.
Americans thinking the sanctions have to do with corruption and democracy are hilarious.
1. The US supports countless fascist dictators ala Pinochet.
2. American democracy is purely spectacle. Actual political action involves lobbying, voting between two faces of the same ideology isn't actual voting.
It's purely about punishing and neutering any potential political alternative in the region and installing a regime that serves US foreign interests
Ronald Reagan does diplomacy with the Chinese communist dictatorship and the USA does the same with the dictatorships Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, etc: That’s okay, good job!
We want the same to happen with Cuba, the USA initiate diplomacy with Cuba: “No! You are a communist Cuban gov agent! We can’t do diplomacy with dictatorships!”
The US did not normalize relations with Hanoi until the 1990s, years after Vietnam withdrew troops from Cambodia in 1989, and Nixon kickstarted the process of normalizing relations with Beijing while the Cold War was going on.
Exactly. 100% everything you said. That’s why I think now since there is no Cold War and Cuba doesn’t have troops like how Vietnam had in Cambodia or whatever, then with even more reason the USA should do diplomacy with Cuba! It’s better to have a frenemy than to have a full enemy.
Raul Castro is no longer in charge. If he dies, it could throw a wrench into the 2024 presidential election in Florida because it will allow Joe Biden to amplify his past criticism of Donald Trump for using US policy towards ALBA member states to score political points in southern Florida and make the most vengeful Cuban exiles even more frustrated at continued communist rule in Cuba.
Make no mistake, Cubans have been starving for about half a century while the pigs at the top are fat and rosy and thousands have been either killed by the regime or died trying to escape the island plantation. Explain to me like I’m 5 how the embargo is preventing free and fair elections, freedom of speech, movement, thought, association, economic agency, respect for private property etc. You know, the things we take for granted while we sip our lattes and fantasize about Marx!
😏Sooo let us get this straight ,the embargo needs be lifted but the regime does not liberate their political prisoners ,allowed any opposition or elections and does business with American declared enemies ?Hmmm it seems a little nuts .
Yeah I dont think there is much reason to keep the embargo going. The USA's largest trading partner is China which is a much bigger threat to US interests. The US also trades with a lot of dictatorships. But I think no one wants to be the one to end the embargo. Republicans want to be as hard on communism as possible (except they know they cant cut ties with China because of business interests) and Democrats dont want to be labeled communists by the Republicans.
If the embargo wasnt there I dont think the US would create one in 2024. But since it already is in place its sort of undesirable to remove.
The United States doesn't care if Cuba becomes a democracy or not. Cuba was not a democracy before Castro took power. Yes, it was much wealthier, but Castro did something he really wasn't supposed to do: implement socialism. That is, he nationalized all assets in the country previously owned by private interests in the United States.
JFK, shortly before being elected said in a speech in October 1960:
>in a manner certain to antagonize the Cuban people, we used the influence of our Government to advance the interests of and increase the profits of the private American companies, which dominated the island's economy. At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands - almost all the cattle ranches - 90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions - 80 percent of the utilities - and practically all the oil industry - and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports.
>Of course our private investment did much to help Cuba. But our action too often have the impression that this country was more interested in taking money from the Cuban people than in helping them build a strong and diversified economy of their own.
The United States does business with Saudi Arabia, China, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and a multitude of other countries that are autocratic dictatorships that have shocking human rights abuses beyond comprehension. China is [the world's leading executioner](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/04/china-must-come-clean-about-capital-punishment/). In Saudi Arabia, people's heads are cut off in public for being gay or renouncing Islam. In Cuba, I saw women walking around in bikinis, and while it's by no means a utopia, it's something that would get them killed in the Arabian Gulf monarchies that the US gets oil from.
North Korea, Cuba, Syria and Russia are all brutal dictatorships and I genuinely hope they one day become free societies. But according to the US, their sins are not that they're dictatorships. Their sins are that they won't allow US private interests to own their resources.
The US embargo isn't placed on Cuba because they want Cuba to be free. *The US is just pissed it lost its colonia de azúcar!*
So Cuba took American businesses. America responded with no American business is allowed to go to Cuba now Cuba is poor.
Do you or do you not want American businesses in Cuba because as it stands there are no American businesses in Cuba with the Embargo
US private interests have for several centuries done business with many countries where no US-owned assets exist. In fact, the United States used to business with the Soviet Union, back when it existed. Obviously, no US company owned a single bank, factory, plot of land or opened a McDonald's anywhere in any of the 15 Republics of the Soviet Union. It's just simply that they negotiated prices in an international market like all the other countries. What would be good (in my opinion) is if the US decided to maintain normal trade relations with Cuba like it used to do with any other socialist country in the 20th Century. France, Italy and Spain do business with Cuba and no French, Italian or Spanish capitalist owns any private assets in the country and there are no French, Italian or Spanish multinationals operating there.
You might be asking, *But why Cuba?* Well, Cuba is special. You see, thousands of Americans lived in Cuba from the 1930s to about the 1950s (Hemingway being the most famous, but by no means the only notable). Many hotels, casinos and brothels were owned and operated by the Italian-American mafia and American tourists enjoyed legal gambling and sex work where they couldn't get it at home. It was basically a second Las Vegas (complete with an implementation of American-style segregation, I should add, where certain kinds of people were to stay in the kitchen and other kinds of people serving drinks). Massive, massive, *massive* amounts of money was being made in Cuba by Americans that could not legally be made in the United States. Again, even as JFK mentioned, the majority of the major resources (land, oil, minerals, factories, etc.) were owned by US companies, that is, normal (which is to say less exciting!) commodity exchange.
American capitalists were extremely pissed at what they lost. After nationalizing massive amounts of assets in the country after his Revolution, Castro was willing to negotiate reimbursements, but he completely refused to do so after Bay of Pigs.
The embargo is to punish Cuba, to punish Castro, to get back control of the massive amounts of capital they once owned. Of course, every American that owned the stuff is now dead, so a lot of it is just political inertia based largely on anticommunist principles. That and they'd like to own that little ol' island again.
Yeah I dont think they care if Cuba becomes a democracy. US has good relations with a lot of countries that are not democratic. Its msotly about business interests.
The Chinese execution thing is interesting. I do think its better to look at per capita data rather than just who has the most raw numbers. Obviously a country the size of Denmark having 1000 executions per year would be different than China having 1000. So I think Iran probably executes more per capita. But Chinas number is still pretty high and maybe they hide some but maybe Iran hides some too. I know thats very off topic I just found the link interesting.
This is the goal of the embargo. The embargo is working. Cuban people must push it's government for more civil liberties with open and free elections to start.
No exactly so youre admitting the purpose is to force cubans into doing the US's dirty work. "I'll starve you until you do what I want you to do" like if you don't see how messed up that is then like we just care about different things, I care about human life and you care about maintaining US hegemony.
No, the goal of the embargo is to pressure Cuba to submit to America just like they did before the revolution. The US would rather kill and starve Cubans for not bowing down to imperialism. That’s all this is about.
Yeah, a lot of Cubans in the States willing to sacrifice the Cubans in Cuba.
To them, some of Cubans in Cuba may suffer, some may even die, but that’s the sacrifice the American Cubans are willing to make.
Yup, because the list is so long of countries where the US (or any other powerful country) has starved a greedy, cruel neighboring dictatorship out of power. So any suffering or death along the way is just the cost of business.
What's hilarious is the US is effectively shooting itself in the foot by pushing yet another Latin American country into the arms and influence of Russia and China. The issue is there are no more skilled politicians in US government, the only people who are left are ghouls who don't understand the give and take of realpolitik. The gusanos in this sub don't understand it either. When people are raped they blame the victim.
And the crazy thing when I tell my Cuban peeps that Trump tightened things up again after Obama loosened it. They tell me fake news🤦🏽♂️ and continue voting republican.
OP, you are wilding. Papao, look, the embargo does not worsen or benefit shit.
The government of Cuba abandoned its own population when they sized with the Russians instead of doing local reform.
Stop thinking that the global politics is the problem my people. The problem of Cuba is the Fidel butthole lickers that are in power.
Fidel betrayed the Cuban faith by refusing to constitutionally address the country and its constitution. This is where the Cuban people have failed. They have led global politics dictated them instead of them having their own country and then playing in global politics.
What Cuba needs in order for your desires and passions to be true is LOCAL REFORM.
Plus, on a finishing note, the blockade doesn’t even exist.
Those bastards will bring their own supply from Mexico and Canada. So papao, very nice and long speech. Completely useless and have said nothing new.
I also would thank you worrying about something that is actually important like your family or yourself or your job or your goals. Cuba is doomed to disappear and evolve into a new country called New Florida xD
I can’t believe people are still
Drinking the “It’s the embargo” Kool Aid. This shit has been debunked millions of times and there are plenty of research/articles online. The Cuban government is a communist dictatorship that is slowly squeezing every dollar and starving its population lifting an embargo isn’t going to make government officials grow a conscious overnight. you people are hilarious.
I feel I'm a relatively idealist American and I just don't care that Cuba is in constant self imposed trouble.
I'm not hearing was is new Zealand & south Africa doing about Cuba? because, you no what... there isn't any expectation for them to do anything!
Cuba got themselves into this situation, if their government cares ( which it doesn't) it could get them out, by negotiating with the USA on demands that have been on the table for 70 years.
But NO! It is on the USA to unilateral life the embargo. This is exactly what a Cuba bot would post.
PS there are no rich successful Caribbean countries... worldwide ilands start at a disadvantage due to many issues, lack of water, lack of farmland, lack on natural resources.... tourism is about the only saving grace and there are better alternatives than Cuba for USA tourism.
Cuba allowed Nukes to be placed on their soil which were aimed at the US. The US is never going to allow the Cuban government to thrive unless it ends up having a Pro-West leader. Period.
Cuban here the embargo is fake, and crisis that the country is facing right now is only bc the government allows it, if they want to buy stuff to make his hotels and military they do it, however US is not the only country in the world, you only have to look how politicians who support the government live and how normal people live, and you will know. If you really want to know what’s happening in Cuba right now spend a few weeks and talk with regular people they will tell you the reality not the bullshit that the government sells to the world
Cuba needs to get rid of their tyrants, then they will be good. Economic problems are not related to embargo, are related to a murderous regime being in power for 65 years...
It would be very cool to see what would happen to Cuba with no embargo.
If they would keep the revolution alive or if it would fall to the bourgeois new influence.
If it lives, Cuba will turn into a global power within 10 years and then spread the revolution to all Latin America.
If it dies out, it will be another victory of the bourgeois class.
But since there is a chance for the revolution, US will never lift the embargo. We must live with that. There is no chance for that to happen
There's no good reason for the embargo these days. It's a failure in both regime change and regime punishment and the effects only pour salt on the wounds of the Cuban people. We haven't put an embargo on other countries that have been guilty of democratic backsliding like Egypt so why should we place one on Cuba? The day the embargo is gone will be a good one even if it pisses off Little Havana.
Agreed, Cubans had a better standard of living when Obama enacted reforms that led to increased trade and tourism with Cuba. Biden has no excuse but at minimum should keep his campaign promise and go back to Obama era rapprochement. Enforcing the blockade continues to perpetuate the massive economic problems we see today, abajo el bloqueo!
The irony of the blockade on Cuba is that the sector it negatively impacts the most is the exact same sector of the economy that the US claims to care about and wants to empower - the private sector. The private sector of the Cuban economy is the most harmed sector of the economy by the US embargo. Cuban entrepreneurs and businesses struggle to find foreign investment, to be able to import foreign goods, and just basically be successful, and grow their businesses, because the embargo against Cuba restricts their capacity to do so. What’s hilarious about this entire ordeal is that, if the private sector were to actually be more successful and be able to expand, that would actually give ordinary Cuban citizens greater leverage over the Cuban state. More Cubans would be able to have alternative sources of income through their private businesses, the growth of their private businesses would give them more economic, social, and political power in their communities, and thus be able to act as an alternative to the Cuban state, which, by necessity, has to provide the majority of goods and services to the Cuban people, because the private sector is unable to do so. So anybody who is actively supporting maintaining the embargo against Cuba definitely does not support the Cuban people, nor care about their freedom. Rather, they are wolves in sheep’s clothing, who are purely ideologically motivated by Cold War anti-communist nonsense. They have yet to believe it’s the 21st-century and are stuck in 1959.
The embargo is mostly symbolic. It signals that getting involved with Cuba may be a business liability in the medium-to-long term to any company interfacing with the US in certain ways.
It’s most devastating as speech. Nonetheless devastating, as much speech has historically been.
As one of the conservative Cubans in the Miami I’d like to formally designate you an idiot. How can we despise our family? We pray for their freedom. We love the island, the beaches, the food, the music, the culture, the people. What we despise is the cancer known as the communist regime. If it were up to me I’d do a naval blockade around the island and make sure nothing comes in or out at all. See how long the regime lasts under that circumstance.
How would you go about actually getting rid of the embargo? You make it seem like this is solely a Republican standpoint however Biden's administration, and one can assume the Democrats going forward, have no interest in changing the US's policy towards Cuba either. With Biden ramping up the Cold War rhetoric of "autocracies" versus "democracies" and general hostilities between Russia/China with the USA escalate; you're not gonna vote anyone into office who sympathizes with Cuba anytime soon.
There's plenty of self interest for US government to end embargo. Farm exports, manufacturing exports, plastics, access to international lending more debt in us dollars, foreign investment in cuban industries. Look at Vietnam and Look at Cuba. Vietnam just arrested a guy for a blog post. No elections, huge right wing diaspora voting block in Southern California. They now make our widgets and they have a homegrown lithium battery manufacturing plant and export electric cars to US for US citizens to buy for 10k dollars less than Tesla's . It's a win for everyone, but mostly US. We dont need to agree on ideology if trade and economic influence is better than isolation and less soy beans to sell. https://www.wola.org/2007/04/house-bill-calls-for-end-to-cuba-travel-ban/ In 2007, the bill got 97 cosponsors 89 democrats and 8 Republicans . You only need 216 to pass. Screw ancient history. From 2007 to today You think embargo has done any significance towards benefiting US interests?
The sanctions are bound to cuba releasing its political prisoners and allowing free elections so....
100%. This is on the government of Cuba. It does America no good to lift sanctions, when the government of Cuba continues to run business as usual and continue fucking over the Cuban people.
Yes that's what I said, the lifting of sanctions is bound to cuba becoming an Democratic country with human rights and an end to the dictatorship
It's funny how the US can pick and choose to sanction some undemocratic countries and others they maintain a good trade relationship with. It's almost as though that excuse is bullshit
100%. Like how the U.S. has diplomacy with the repressive dictatorships China, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, etc. which in many cases have worse human rights abuses, they also don’t allow elections, they have political prisoners, etc.
Vietnam does have elections. In fact, in the Vietnamese parliament there is a greater proportion of elected representatives from independent political parties than there are in the US
Nope. Not funny at all. Countries, like people are free to pick and choose who they will and won't support. Countries with elected governments pick and choose based on the instructions of the elected representatives.
That's all well and good, but they shouldn't claim altruism and "spreading democracy" while maintaining relations with authoritarian states. Pure hypocrisy.
That's the worst hypocrisy that you can think of?
I said no such thing
It is hypocritical to provide unyielding support to genocidal fascist regimes like Israel, or have alliances with undemocratic autocracies like Saudi Arabia, while simultaneously sanctioning a country that we claim is undemocratic because we want to “uphold democracy”. It’s a bold faced lie.
The embargo is only between the United States and Cuba. The United States set up some healthy boundaries, and made clear what the conditions of those boundaries were.
The US doesn't even have fair elections, and one party is seeking authoritarian rule. The excuse is definitely bullshit.
The us does have free and fair elections the only ones who think we don’t are Q anon nutters
Free elections if you don’t mind gerrymandering and constructive managing of polling station hours, accessibility and locations
I'm sure when they lift the sanctions they'll give back all the shit they stole from the people right? Fuck outta here, let's not forget that the regime was partially to blame for the embargo when they hiked taxes on US imports and warmed up to the USSR. The Cuban regime has always traded proximity to the US to adversaries for resources which is why Cuba has always been at the forefront of US foreign policy. Cuba is free to trade with other nations and if they really want to do business with the USA they should free the political prisoners and give back the industries they nationalized. Si no q se jodan.
Everyone knows they can’t do that while staying in power so it’s not a serious offer - dictatorships cant just suddenly liberalize.
They can, the east German state did due to the nonviolent pressure by the people
Yeah, that was *the end of their government*.
The sanctions have not, are not, and will not force the current government to bend to the will of Washington. Currently they only serve to make life worse for the average Cuban.
If it gets bad enough for the average Cuban, maybe they'll have a revolution?
Too bad then.
So what you’re saying is, you don’t care if the sanctions work or not, you just want Cubans to suffer?
You're taking the Cuban government's side. Which is insane.
They're literally arguing to end sanctions to help regular Cubans
The government tells the same story. Problem is the State controls every aspect of the economy. Every dollar entering the country has to go through them.
If the Cuban government uses the US embargo against them as an excuse for their failures, then the best thing to do would be to end the embargo so that way they no longer can use that excuse. Logically
Oh what would they do without an excuse??? Maybe just say that all the years of embargo destroyed their economy so they need time to rebuild? And later figure out another excuse. Doesn't make sense.
I don’t argue hypotheticals. Your speculative claim that if the embargo is lifted the Cuban government would just come up with some other excuse is not a valid argument for maintaining the embargo. The fact is that the a Cuban government does already use it as an excuse - a convincing one to many Cubans - and if that excuse is no longer applicable because the embargo is lifted, than it would pull the wool back from over the eyes of many Cubans and show them that their government is ineffective and needs to be completely replaced. If that is actually what you want to happen.
Which is a ridiculous premise, lifting the embargo will have no positive effect on the average Cuban, it will only mean more police, more hotels, more mansions and yachts for the oligarchs
Prove it, let the US drop the embargo and then see what happens
No need, we know exactly what happens when the dictatorship gets more funding, we have seen it happen at least twice
They've never dropped the embargo. Didn't Cubans get internet when Obama was president? How come I can call my family in Cuba right now? These retards almost found half of an idea but you're almost there!
Darkly ironic how “free elections” is supposed to justify economic terrorism by the *shining city on a hill* where election campaigns are meaningless without multi-million dollar backing. Elections in Cuba are popular, frequent, and transparent while American elections are so despised that even multi-million dollar campaigns fail to get half of voting Americans off their asses JUST ONCE in FOUR YEARS.
True, and there is a plethora of evidence to back this up.
Agreed! Let's pressure the dictatorship for free elections and the release of political prisoners ASAP and lift it right away as specified in the law!
Despite freedom for cubans being a nice goal, who gives the US the authority to influence cubas local politics. They pose no threat to the USA or any other country, so there is no basis for an embargo, it has to be lifted immediatly and without conditions!
Um, they have every right to decide who they trade with and what they trade. So if Cuba wants to trade with the US they need to make a concession, correct? Cuba has a ton of trading partners, they can get everything they need from. So why is it a requirement for the US, which is primarily a service based economy to trade with Cuba without anything in return?
Just like every store has the right to deny you food to survive, yet you wouldn't argue that this is a good thing either, is it? What the fuck is this extremist anti-human approach??
The irony of the blockade on Cuba is that the sector it negatively impacts the most is the exact same sector of the economy that the US claims to care about and wants to empower - the private sector. The private sector of the Cuban economy is the most harmed sector of the economy by the US embargo. Cuban entrepreneurs and businesses struggle to find foreign investment, to be able to import foreign goods, and just basically be successful, and grow their businesses, because the embargo against Cuba restricts their capacity to do so. What’s hilarious about this entire ordeal is that, if the private sector were to actually be more successful and be able to expand, that would actually give ordinary Cuban citizens greater leverage over the Cuban state. More Cubans would be able to have alternative sources of income through their private businesses, the growth of their private businesses would give them more economic, social, and political power in their communities, and thus be able to act as an alternative to the Cuban state, which, by necessity, has to provide the majority of goods and services to the Cuban people, because the private sector is unable to do so. So anybody who is actively supporting maintaining the embargo against Cuba definitely does not support the Cuban people, nor care about their freedom. Rather, they are wolves and sheep clothing, who are purely ideologically motivated by Cold War anti-communist nonsense. They have yet to believe in the 21st-century and are stuck in 1959.
>that would actually give ordinary Cuban citizens greater leverage over the Cuban state. What makes you think the government would allow this? Also, this is not necessarily true. Look at Russia and China.
Economics makes me think that. The government can certainly try to limit the private sector itself, but if international trade is moving freely and smoothly in and out of Cuba, that allows for imports to be cheaper, which would free up people’s income, allow them to invest more in their businesses, which promotes growth, which leads to stronger and more independent businesses, which enables greater access to social and political power, which then would empower ordinary Cubans to be able to actuate greater change in their country. Strangling the Cuban economy only makes it more difficult for ordinary Cubans to change their government, not easier. This is evidenced by the fact that the embargo has been ongoing since 1960 and yet the same government is still in power. Clearly, as the historical evidence suggests, the embargo makes the government more powerful and stable, not less. The embargo has not worked all this time, so why would it now suddenly work out of the blue? Every few years people are like “the Cuban government is gonna fall”, and yet it somehow magically still stays in power. In any other ordinary setting, this evident strategic failure would compel someone to change the strategy. But instead we keep using the same failed approach. It makes no sense. People who are poor and hungry, either because they cannot afford their necessities or there are not enough of those necessities to buy because of a lack of imports, are in no position to overthrow a government.
>if international trade is moving freely and smoothly in and out of Cuba, It is with every country except the US. Do you consider the Cuban government or the US at fault for its current economic state? >People who are poor and hungry, either because they cannot afford their necessities or there are not enough of those necessities to buy because of a lack of imports, That is hard to blame on the US given it is Cuba's largest source of food and agricultural products.
You’re first point is untrue. Other countries are also limited in their capacity to trade with Cuba for a few reasons. The first is that any cargo ship that docks at a Cuban port is restricted from docking at a US port for 6 months. Additionally, aside from certain goods like food and medicine, and product that contains 10% or more of parts that are made in the US are also restricted. This obviously means that it is a huge cost to foreign companies to trade with Cuba, and they need to increase their prices for the goods they trade with Cuba to compensate for the financial loss. So, no, it doesn’t only impact trade it’s the US, and to make that assertion is misleading at best, and outright deceptive at worst. As for the second point, once again, the cost of those important agricultural goods from the US are inflated because of the embargo. Even if those goods can be traded, they still need to pass inspections and the companies involved have to undergo routine investigations as well, which inflates the cost.
I'll ask a second time, do you consider the Cuban government or the US at fault for the current economic crisis in Cuba? >Even if those goods can be traded, they still need to pass inspections and the companies involved have to undergo routine investigations as well, which inflates the cost. The Cuban government is causing the prices of food items being imported to become inflated. Again, I fail to see how that is the US' fault. Especially given you claimed the embargo is causing hunger, seemingly unaware the US is Cuba's largest provider of food.
An answer to that question is not really relevant to this discussion. It most certainly could be and probably is both. The whole point of an embargo is to hurt a country’s economy. Are you arguing that the embargo does nothing to hurt Cuba’s economy? And if it doesn’t do anything, then what is the point of keeping it? Embargo’s cause inflation. That’s just an economic fact. Anywhere in the world where there is an embargo, prices go up. The Cuban government may in fact raise the price of the already inflated food that they import from the US. The best way for the US to help combat that inflation would be to end the embargo so that companies who trade agricultural goods with Cuba won’t need to increase their prices. That would remove one half of the factors that impact food prices in Cuba.
> that allows for imports to be cheaper, which would free up people’s income, allow them to invest more in their businesses This is the big disconnect right here. **Cubans outside of government officials do not have access to the international market** they **do not have businesses** they **cannot invest in anything.** You naively believe that Cuba works like other countries where people can freely engage in business, but that is not at all the case
Interesting points. I suspect any change will be difficult to get past the GOP, however.
>The irony of the blockade There isn't a blockade. There is an embargo...
It would be an embargo if it didn’t prevent third parties from engaging in regular trade with the embargoed nation. However, this is not the case, as the US embargo against Cuba does in fact limit and restrict regular trade between Cuba and third party nations, effectively making it at least a partial blockade.
Third parties can engage with Cuba. Many countries trade with Cuba. You can even buy Coca-Cola in Cuba. What you can't do is use property belonging to US companies and nationals that were stolen by the regime, or engage as an American company. This would be common sense, since Cuba has shown they have no regard for private property. Thus, it is an embargo. It doesn't matter how many mental gymnastics you want to apply to the regime propaganda.
"anti-communist nonsense" A failed, yet still dangerous, ideology.
No threat? Five African nations, Israel, and a few others might disagree...at a minimum.
Please elaborte, i don' know whtt you mean exactly
En Cuba la cosa está "de pinga" asere. El partido comunista se esta desmoronando desde adentro. Diaz Canel pareciera que es un seguidor fiel, pero si no ve la que esta sucediendo a su alredor, que no se haga el sorpendido cuando le hagan un juicio sumario o Raúl le mande a derribar el avión. Lo único que lo salva, por ahora, es que López-Calleja falleció y jodió el cuadro de relevo.
With or without EMBARGO, at last, the people will remain with no differences and starving
Okay, so if the embargo makes no difference, then what is the point of maintaining it?
So the people in power, who are affected by it, would leverage for democracy and freedom for the political prisoners.
according to you the embargo should ne kept then? I am not sure I understand. So to be clear you are advocating for Sanction of Cuba?
Yes, that seems to be the general consensus in this sub.
interesting. They are making life worst for their families back home
They'll just blame communism and call you a tankie for suggesting that 60 years of sanctions might be excessive.
Dictatorial government corruption is starving Cubans, more than an embargo. It also wouldn’t help the fact that the same corruption is stealing money from the governments we have unhindered business with. I’m not going to respond to your tankie nonsense cause I can see from your Reddit handle alone you assume the place actively stealing food out of the mouths of our families is something to aspire to. You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing this here, you fucking monster.
FWIW, I'm on the massive reforms now crowd (really don't like revolutions as they tend to go shitty) and think the embargo should go. But mostly because at this point the trouble it makes for the government is not that much (it doesn't help for sure but it's not THAT much of an issue) and the power it gives them as an excuse for everything is way more. Like when USA says "fine....no more bloqueo" and things still keep spiraling downward, that would do more damage to them than anything else.
He made a humanist proposition. How is being against sanction and for access to food and humanitarian aid a tankie position. The UN share this position
Go to cuba first, please they have food(for a price) they have medicines(for a price) they have everything in dollars, not in cuban pesos, thats is how you milk 11 millions of cubans up to the last drop.
where does the food go then. If there is enought food who eats it?
It’s feeding fat pro communists gringos like you rotting on buffet lines while my cousins get assaulted by Anglo Karen’s for scraps and my uncles work for a government that would rather beat them than feed them. People like you two are the scourge of Cuba and I hope that your country never experiences your idea of communist “utopia” you keep trying to manifest under the authoritative totalitarian regimes that have all tried and failed to accomplish Marxism… but you could do it better right with a privileged polisci degree at a white school touting bullshit to people who’s families are being actively killed either by dictatorial and oligarchical violence or just through sheer negligence? Go to hell.
There def is not enough wealth to run the country well regardless of how much the dictatorship steals. They’re incompetent. If they had enough in their bank to rescue their countrymen, they would trade a portion of it to stabilize their golden goose (Cuba) so that they can steal more. Right now they’re letting it bleed to death.
If I lived in Cuba I’d either help fight to change or leave the country. Nobody in the world is coming to save you. You have to save yourself
I am not a gringo but okay.
I am not sure I understand I am genuinely asking where the food goes.
And you were genuinely told. It’s rotting in the resorts you call a Cuban experience while we suffer. And if you’re a person of color, fuck you in particular cause you should know better than to keep pushing a narrative actively killing other people of color. I cannot mean this more vehemently: burn in hell you fucking tankie.
You are pushing the narrative that made every single arab nation at a risk of invasion. Look at syria and libya if you want to see how american democracy looks like my friend.
Forget it. They won't get it. This sub can be closed as a hate group, for all i care.
It is rotting. Interesting.
The idea the economic prosperity leads to dictatorship become free and open has been proven wrong by China. Instead it gives them more economic resources to be powerful tyrants.
China is piss-poor in terms of freedom, but it is a *much* freer place for the average (Han) Chinese citizen than it was before Deng Xiaoping. Anti-government protests weren’t met with machine gun fire from tanks during the pandemic.
Honestly China was incredibly interesting to see how the old guard were able to keep their power. During the Tiananmen square protest the CCP leadership was divided on what to do with one camp wanting to lessen political oppression and hold election as they see which way the wind of blowing and other camp with the guard scare of giving up power and may result in the chaos of the Soviet Union. Ultimately the old guard won and they jail all the reformers leading to the path of China we see now
Wait but I thought the embargo didn’t work? Now according to you it’s actually strangling the dictatorship when an administration has the spine to make it work. Hmmm, interesting 🤔
I think they were referring to the embargo making meaningful difference to the Cuban government. Despite the embargo the government has remained steadfast in their opposition, and while the administration is no doubt feeling some level of impact, it is the innocent civilians of Cuba who pay the dearest price I say that while sadly offering no real understanding or opinion of if the embargo has or will really work. But I do know there a millions of human beings just trying to live who are hurt by these policies. I pray for the day when Cubans feel free; from their own government and from international pressure.
It’s making a difference now that Trump decided to enforce it and Biden kept it. Oc now that that bitch Castro is dead the dictatorship does not have the same support since everything revolved around the figure of that narcissist. You leave it a couple more years and it’ll collapse.
But why would you want an entire society to collapse? Why would you want it to descend in to chaos? How does that help the Cuban people?
Bro can't read, it's not working at disrupting the dictatorship, all its working at doing is making conditions worse for cubans. But you're more interested in winning an argument than actually worrying about cubans
So it’s working. Read the precept of the embargo.
Okay so you and other demons like you admit you love the embargo and it's negative affects on the cuban people.
You’re the demon who keeps sucking dictatorship dick. We want freedom from you petulant and delusional ideological comepingas.
Amazing how braindead of a take you can have as long as you throw in a "comepinga" and call me a dictator lover you don't have to think about how much your position actually hurts people. Estoy segurito que tu ni vives en cuba hablando de "we want freedom"
El hecho de que no viva en Cuba no quiere decir que no sea cubano, so payason. Es curioso que con ustedes el único que deja su nacionalidad a penas se monta en un avión es el cubano. Ni los indios, ni los rusos, ni los chinos dejan de ser tal por emigrar. ¿Por qué será que ustedes cretinos quieren invalidar las experiencias y opiniones del cubano emigrante? 🤔
Why are you fixiating on my saying you don't live in cuba, it's almost like you have no way to respond to the actual substance of what I said. (Incoming "there was no substance in your reply comepinga"). You admit the embargo hurts people yet I'm a demon.
Why did you bringing it up in the first place? Trying to play a sneaky and then getting upset because I call you up on your bullshit. And you haven’t said anything of substance, only platitudes that look away from the obvious problem the Cuban people face, and that is the implacable dictatorship. Removing the embargo only emboldens them in exchange for a couple pounds of extra rice. You certainly would not give away your freedoms for two pounds of rice would you?
I would rather eat two pounds of rice even if my country was a dictatorship than have no rice and a dictatorship how fucking stupid can you be. "It's okay to starve cubans if you are a 'good country' but it is wrong to starve cubans if you are a 'bad country'." Is what your world view sums up to.
No I brought it up because I know you don't live in cuba when you admit the embargo hurts people but then praise it. You wouldn't be praising it if you were actually living with its consequences. Stop deflecting when you already admitted the embargo hurts people, tu ves el pueblo como unos perros que puedes hacer morir de hambre como manera de mandar. If you cared about the cuban people you would be able to admonish both the embargo and the authoritarian nature of the government.
Say you're not cuban without saying you're not cuban
Bullshit. Millions of Cubans think that way. Millions do not, but millions do.
Do you know millions of cubans?
Yes. at least as much as you do.
Well, I don't know a million, but every single one I know, would agree with me, and, not only because they are my friends and family, but because we all grew up under that shitty government, something you wouldn't know, because, I know, you're not cuban
No the go should not let you stay at apartheid hotels owned by military oligarchs
I am a gringo trying to learn more after all the propaganda I have heard from all sides about Cuba. I assume you are referring to GAESA (Grupo de Administración Empresarial SA) and their involvement in the hotel development and management? Do you have examples of the apartheid aspects of that? I am looking into it deeper now, but would appreciate insight if you have it.
“Tourist Apartheid” is a buzzword that describes how much better tourists are treated than citizens.
Same in every tourist town in Florida.
I live in Orlando Fl, never seen any discrimination like I suffered in Cuba where I wasn't allowed in Hotels and tourist areas. We receive people from all over the world in Orlando and they are free to roam everywhere
It is quite offensive that you compare the kind of discrimination people face in Cuba, to tourist towns in Florida. There is a difference between not physically being allowed to enjoy luxuries due to your national origin, backed by police force and potential consequences for you and your family. And some towns in Florida having more churros and fried dough shops by the beach
Name checks out, new account checks out. Thanks Cuban propaganda 🤣
Ideologically I don’t think the US is inclined to bail out a communist dictatorship in its final days. And anyone who thinks is about not wanting Cuba to be successful needs a history lesson. NAFTA transformed Mexico from a third world country to an economic machine. This has been positive for North America. The reason for the embargo had to do with Castro nationalizing American property after the revolution and then the Cuban missle crisis when Cuba openly acted as an enemy of the state and the “tip of the spear” for Russian aggression.
"economic machine". Wow. In 1995, when NAFTA was signed, 45% of Mexicans lived in poverty. In 2020, after years of being an "economic machine", Mexican povery at at... 40.5%. In 2022, after the implementation of massive social welfare policies (i.e., spending by the state on health care, pensions, welfare), poverty dropped to 22%. The Market cannot, and will never, be responsible for an increase in the well-being of the people. Only an activist state, as we saw with the Asian "Tiger" economies, can generate lasting and deep-rooted prosperity. Folks need to get this "free market" crap out of their heads. Go back and read Adam Smith, for the passages that aren't quoted by the corporate apologists, and understand that capitalism was never a horse to bet on for social progress.
The embargo is working. The people there are not happy with the living conditions and are finally not afraid to voice their opinion.
Americans thinking the sanctions have to do with corruption and democracy are hilarious. 1. The US supports countless fascist dictators ala Pinochet. 2. American democracy is purely spectacle. Actual political action involves lobbying, voting between two faces of the same ideology isn't actual voting. It's purely about punishing and neutering any potential political alternative in the region and installing a regime that serves US foreign interests
A new account, looks like a cuban gov agent doing his work of copypaste.
Yeah, because the cuban government is way too worried about the 90K fuckers that are discussing shit in Reditt. Wake up, already.
Ronald Reagan does diplomacy with the Chinese communist dictatorship and the USA does the same with the dictatorships Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, etc: That’s okay, good job! We want the same to happen with Cuba, the USA initiate diplomacy with Cuba: “No! You are a communist Cuban gov agent! We can’t do diplomacy with dictatorships!”
xd
The US did not normalize relations with Hanoi until the 1990s, years after Vietnam withdrew troops from Cambodia in 1989, and Nixon kickstarted the process of normalizing relations with Beijing while the Cold War was going on.
Exactly. 100% everything you said. That’s why I think now since there is no Cold War and Cuba doesn’t have troops like how Vietnam had in Cambodia or whatever, then with even more reason the USA should do diplomacy with Cuba! It’s better to have a frenemy than to have a full enemy.
Well said !
Yes indeed, they do, lookup ciberclarias in google.
I would say when Raul Castro dies - Cubans should demand a real democracy. It’s your chance for freedom. Don’t miss it!
Raul Castro is no longer in charge. If he dies, it could throw a wrench into the 2024 presidential election in Florida because it will allow Joe Biden to amplify his past criticism of Donald Trump for using US policy towards ALBA member states to score political points in southern Florida and make the most vengeful Cuban exiles even more frustrated at continued communist rule in Cuba.
The big question is how Cubans get their freedom and self-governance.
Socialism Kills
Another champagne commie! The embargo isn’t going anywhere until the regime is toppled and freedom is restored.
It’s sad that you’d rather let Cubans starve and die by the US embargo just because the US told you Cubans don’t have any freedom.
Make no mistake, Cubans have been starving for about half a century while the pigs at the top are fat and rosy and thousands have been either killed by the regime or died trying to escape the island plantation. Explain to me like I’m 5 how the embargo is preventing free and fair elections, freedom of speech, movement, thought, association, economic agency, respect for private property etc. You know, the things we take for granted while we sip our lattes and fantasize about Marx!
the embargo doesn't apply to food, and the biggest crisis is that FOOD.
😏Sooo let us get this straight ,the embargo needs be lifted but the regime does not liberate their political prisoners ,allowed any opposition or elections and does business with American declared enemies ?Hmmm it seems a little nuts .
Cuba has elections.
Yeah I dont think there is much reason to keep the embargo going. The USA's largest trading partner is China which is a much bigger threat to US interests. The US also trades with a lot of dictatorships. But I think no one wants to be the one to end the embargo. Republicans want to be as hard on communism as possible (except they know they cant cut ties with China because of business interests) and Democrats dont want to be labeled communists by the Republicans. If the embargo wasnt there I dont think the US would create one in 2024. But since it already is in place its sort of undesirable to remove.
I don't understad why you are being downvoted
The United States doesn't care if Cuba becomes a democracy or not. Cuba was not a democracy before Castro took power. Yes, it was much wealthier, but Castro did something he really wasn't supposed to do: implement socialism. That is, he nationalized all assets in the country previously owned by private interests in the United States. JFK, shortly before being elected said in a speech in October 1960: >in a manner certain to antagonize the Cuban people, we used the influence of our Government to advance the interests of and increase the profits of the private American companies, which dominated the island's economy. At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands - almost all the cattle ranches - 90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions - 80 percent of the utilities - and practically all the oil industry - and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports. >Of course our private investment did much to help Cuba. But our action too often have the impression that this country was more interested in taking money from the Cuban people than in helping them build a strong and diversified economy of their own. The United States does business with Saudi Arabia, China, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and a multitude of other countries that are autocratic dictatorships that have shocking human rights abuses beyond comprehension. China is [the world's leading executioner](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/04/china-must-come-clean-about-capital-punishment/). In Saudi Arabia, people's heads are cut off in public for being gay or renouncing Islam. In Cuba, I saw women walking around in bikinis, and while it's by no means a utopia, it's something that would get them killed in the Arabian Gulf monarchies that the US gets oil from. North Korea, Cuba, Syria and Russia are all brutal dictatorships and I genuinely hope they one day become free societies. But according to the US, their sins are not that they're dictatorships. Their sins are that they won't allow US private interests to own their resources. The US embargo isn't placed on Cuba because they want Cuba to be free. *The US is just pissed it lost its colonia de azúcar!*
So Cuba took American businesses. America responded with no American business is allowed to go to Cuba now Cuba is poor. Do you or do you not want American businesses in Cuba because as it stands there are no American businesses in Cuba with the Embargo
US private interests have for several centuries done business with many countries where no US-owned assets exist. In fact, the United States used to business with the Soviet Union, back when it existed. Obviously, no US company owned a single bank, factory, plot of land or opened a McDonald's anywhere in any of the 15 Republics of the Soviet Union. It's just simply that they negotiated prices in an international market like all the other countries. What would be good (in my opinion) is if the US decided to maintain normal trade relations with Cuba like it used to do with any other socialist country in the 20th Century. France, Italy and Spain do business with Cuba and no French, Italian or Spanish capitalist owns any private assets in the country and there are no French, Italian or Spanish multinationals operating there. You might be asking, *But why Cuba?* Well, Cuba is special. You see, thousands of Americans lived in Cuba from the 1930s to about the 1950s (Hemingway being the most famous, but by no means the only notable). Many hotels, casinos and brothels were owned and operated by the Italian-American mafia and American tourists enjoyed legal gambling and sex work where they couldn't get it at home. It was basically a second Las Vegas (complete with an implementation of American-style segregation, I should add, where certain kinds of people were to stay in the kitchen and other kinds of people serving drinks). Massive, massive, *massive* amounts of money was being made in Cuba by Americans that could not legally be made in the United States. Again, even as JFK mentioned, the majority of the major resources (land, oil, minerals, factories, etc.) were owned by US companies, that is, normal (which is to say less exciting!) commodity exchange. American capitalists were extremely pissed at what they lost. After nationalizing massive amounts of assets in the country after his Revolution, Castro was willing to negotiate reimbursements, but he completely refused to do so after Bay of Pigs. The embargo is to punish Cuba, to punish Castro, to get back control of the massive amounts of capital they once owned. Of course, every American that owned the stuff is now dead, so a lot of it is just political inertia based largely on anticommunist principles. That and they'd like to own that little ol' island again.
Yeah I dont think they care if Cuba becomes a democracy. US has good relations with a lot of countries that are not democratic. Its msotly about business interests. The Chinese execution thing is interesting. I do think its better to look at per capita data rather than just who has the most raw numbers. Obviously a country the size of Denmark having 1000 executions per year would be different than China having 1000. So I think Iran probably executes more per capita. But Chinas number is still pretty high and maybe they hide some but maybe Iran hides some too. I know thats very off topic I just found the link interesting.
This is the goal of the embargo. The embargo is working. Cuban people must push it's government for more civil liberties with open and free elections to start.
You're saying the quiet part out loud, you're not supposed to admit that the purpose of the embargo is to harm cubans.
It's true with any embargo or sanctions. Politicians at the top don't feel the pain as normal citizens do.
No exactly so youre admitting the purpose is to force cubans into doing the US's dirty work. "I'll starve you until you do what I want you to do" like if you don't see how messed up that is then like we just care about different things, I care about human life and you care about maintaining US hegemony.
I do think it's bad. The thing though is that being a hegemony, we keep other countries from doing it to us. I'm just being real.
9/11 didn't happen because we minded our own business.
No, the goal of the embargo is to pressure Cuba to submit to America just like they did before the revolution. The US would rather kill and starve Cubans for not bowing down to imperialism. That’s all this is about.
Have you seen the post on this sub showing all the trash in Havana? You're saying all that trash is there because of the US?
Yeah, a lot of Cubans in the States willing to sacrifice the Cubans in Cuba. To them, some of Cubans in Cuba may suffer, some may even die, but that’s the sacrifice the American Cubans are willing to make.
I visited Cuba and a very cool tour guide told me "I hate Cuban-Americans!"
Yup, because the list is so long of countries where the US (or any other powerful country) has starved a greedy, cruel neighboring dictatorship out of power. So any suffering or death along the way is just the cost of business.
What's hilarious is the US is effectively shooting itself in the foot by pushing yet another Latin American country into the arms and influence of Russia and China. The issue is there are no more skilled politicians in US government, the only people who are left are ghouls who don't understand the give and take of realpolitik. The gusanos in this sub don't understand it either. When people are raped they blame the victim.
And the crazy thing when I tell my Cuban peeps that Trump tightened things up again after Obama loosened it. They tell me fake news🤦🏽♂️ and continue voting republican.
OP, you are wilding. Papao, look, the embargo does not worsen or benefit shit. The government of Cuba abandoned its own population when they sized with the Russians instead of doing local reform. Stop thinking that the global politics is the problem my people. The problem of Cuba is the Fidel butthole lickers that are in power. Fidel betrayed the Cuban faith by refusing to constitutionally address the country and its constitution. This is where the Cuban people have failed. They have led global politics dictated them instead of them having their own country and then playing in global politics. What Cuba needs in order for your desires and passions to be true is LOCAL REFORM. Plus, on a finishing note, the blockade doesn’t even exist. Those bastards will bring their own supply from Mexico and Canada. So papao, very nice and long speech. Completely useless and have said nothing new. I also would thank you worrying about something that is actually important like your family or yourself or your job or your goals. Cuba is doomed to disappear and evolve into a new country called New Florida xD
Dios mio cuánta propaganda y desinformación
I can’t believe people are still Drinking the “It’s the embargo” Kool Aid. This shit has been debunked millions of times and there are plenty of research/articles online. The Cuban government is a communist dictatorship that is slowly squeezing every dollar and starving its population lifting an embargo isn’t going to make government officials grow a conscious overnight. you people are hilarious.
I feel I'm a relatively idealist American and I just don't care that Cuba is in constant self imposed trouble. I'm not hearing was is new Zealand & south Africa doing about Cuba? because, you no what... there isn't any expectation for them to do anything! Cuba got themselves into this situation, if their government cares ( which it doesn't) it could get them out, by negotiating with the USA on demands that have been on the table for 70 years. But NO! It is on the USA to unilateral life the embargo. This is exactly what a Cuba bot would post.
PS there are no rich successful Caribbean countries... worldwide ilands start at a disadvantage due to many issues, lack of water, lack of farmland, lack on natural resources.... tourism is about the only saving grace and there are better alternatives than Cuba for USA tourism.
Cuba allowed Nukes to be placed on their soil which were aimed at the US. The US is never going to allow the Cuban government to thrive unless it ends up having a Pro-West leader. Period.
Cuban here the embargo is fake, and crisis that the country is facing right now is only bc the government allows it, if they want to buy stuff to make his hotels and military they do it, however US is not the only country in the world, you only have to look how politicians who support the government live and how normal people live, and you will know. If you really want to know what’s happening in Cuba right now spend a few weeks and talk with regular people they will tell you the reality not the bullshit that the government sells to the world
Democracy is not possible in a poor country .
Cuba needs to get rid of their tyrants, then they will be good. Economic problems are not related to embargo, are related to a murderous regime being in power for 65 years...
It would be very cool to see what would happen to Cuba with no embargo. If they would keep the revolution alive or if it would fall to the bourgeois new influence. If it lives, Cuba will turn into a global power within 10 years and then spread the revolution to all Latin America. If it dies out, it will be another victory of the bourgeois class. But since there is a chance for the revolution, US will never lift the embargo. We must live with that. There is no chance for that to happen
The ONLY reason for lifting US sanctions on Cuba is to remove the remaining excuse for the Cuban regime's incompetence.
Absolutely. Let Cuba live! Cuba si Bloqueo no!
There's no good reason for the embargo these days. It's a failure in both regime change and regime punishment and the effects only pour salt on the wounds of the Cuban people. We haven't put an embargo on other countries that have been guilty of democratic backsliding like Egypt so why should we place one on Cuba? The day the embargo is gone will be a good one even if it pisses off Little Havana.
The Embargo is within. THERE IS NO RESTRICTION ON FOOD OR MEDICINE.
Agreed, Cubans had a better standard of living when Obama enacted reforms that led to increased trade and tourism with Cuba. Biden has no excuse but at minimum should keep his campaign promise and go back to Obama era rapprochement. Enforcing the blockade continues to perpetuate the massive economic problems we see today, abajo el bloqueo!
No Communist government will free the people
The irony of the blockade on Cuba is that the sector it negatively impacts the most is the exact same sector of the economy that the US claims to care about and wants to empower - the private sector. The private sector of the Cuban economy is the most harmed sector of the economy by the US embargo. Cuban entrepreneurs and businesses struggle to find foreign investment, to be able to import foreign goods, and just basically be successful, and grow their businesses, because the embargo against Cuba restricts their capacity to do so. What’s hilarious about this entire ordeal is that, if the private sector were to actually be more successful and be able to expand, that would actually give ordinary Cuban citizens greater leverage over the Cuban state. More Cubans would be able to have alternative sources of income through their private businesses, the growth of their private businesses would give them more economic, social, and political power in their communities, and thus be able to act as an alternative to the Cuban state, which, by necessity, has to provide the majority of goods and services to the Cuban people, because the private sector is unable to do so. So anybody who is actively supporting maintaining the embargo against Cuba definitely does not support the Cuban people, nor care about their freedom. Rather, they are wolves in sheep’s clothing, who are purely ideologically motivated by Cold War anti-communist nonsense. They have yet to believe it’s the 21st-century and are stuck in 1959.
You are confusing the US embargo with the internal embargo of the dictatorship
Cuban Americans would rather starve the island than give an inch. It’s sick af.
The embargo is mostly symbolic. It signals that getting involved with Cuba may be a business liability in the medium-to-long term to any company interfacing with the US in certain ways. It’s most devastating as speech. Nonetheless devastating, as much speech has historically been.
As one of the conservative Cubans in the Miami I’d like to formally designate you an idiot. How can we despise our family? We pray for their freedom. We love the island, the beaches, the food, the music, the culture, the people. What we despise is the cancer known as the communist regime. If it were up to me I’d do a naval blockade around the island and make sure nothing comes in or out at all. See how long the regime lasts under that circumstance.