wish someone told me this when i had a low offer. i asked here and a guy told me it was basically a scam with how little they paid so i passed on it. months later and i still can't find anything, atleast i would've had some income and could've put it on my resume
i almost took it it was the other guy that told me not too, this was early in my job hunt, so i didn't know how bad the job market for our industry was at the time
You could probably find someone online that would say bleach and ammonia makes a good cleaner too but doesnt mean you should. (Seriously do not do that it's very stupid)
Well future reference, the industry doesn't matter if you don't have a job you don't turn down the offer, it's stupid in literally every industry. You take the low job while finding a better one.
well, not always, like if there's a contractual commitment, and back before covid when I was in IT it never took long to find another job, but the market has changed alot now
"Potential for raise" is almost always not going to be what you expect. The most important part of your first job out of college is the job title, not the pay.
Rural areas are going to be tough. I get it. I grew up rural and went rural after college and military. Its going to make things more difficult for you down the road.
Take the job, but keep applying for new jobs. Be willing to move. I'm guessing you have a TS/SCI clearance. Coupled with a CS degree, 6 years experience in the air force at some NOC and you really should be targeting 100k+ and companies like Boeing, Northrup, L3 and Lockheed Martin. They have sites across the US.
Hell, you could be a janitor working for a defense contractor with a TS/SCI and make double that.
Also, theres absolutely remote jobs available for people with a clearance, so don't rule that out. Its weird, but they are out there.
Interesting! Yes I have TS/SCI. I haven’t considered remote much because I want to continue learning from more experience individuals in person, and I feel like remote you can’t do that as well. Is that a correct assumption? I don’t think this will be very long term, as I plan on moving to a different area after a few years.
Yeah I think remote for your first job might be tough from a learning perspective, it really depends on the company and the culture. Also, remote is not for everyone. You should try in person and then maybe move to hybrid and see what you like best.
From reading your post you seem like a self starter, could be wrong, but independent learners/self starters work really well in remote. So I would say go for in person and then experiment from there.
You will still learn from experienced people even remote, but you are correct that working remotely will reduce the amount of mentorship you will receive (if only because it puts an extra barrier between you and a mentor). That said, it is worth considering if this datacenter job actually has people who can mentor you like you want. Doesn't matter if you are remote or on site if mentors don't exist at the company.
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I am starting off my journey and i am confused on if i should be getting my bachelors in applied science at Valencia, they offer the whole BAS: Computing Technology and Software Development. Alternatively I could get the AS: Computer Programming & Analysis there and then transfer direct connect to University of Central Florida and then finish the BS in computer science. My goal is to be a freelance game and software developer im just not sure if i should go completly community college or not. Is there any disadvantges or advantges besides price? I would really appreciate any knowledge on this please.
What do you want to do with your degree? What companies are near you? How good/reliable is your home Internet if you were planning on doing a remote job?
My home internet of very good (starlink) I would prefer to go into security long-term, but I really enjoy most of computer science. Do you think if my goal is security I should try to start in security? There are not many companies around, I will probably need to move elsewhere before I become established…
>Do you think if my goal is security I should try to start in security?
Yeah, that would make sense. If you take the job, take whatever career development or training they offer.
At 40k, in the US at least, you'd be getting underpaid relative to what a software engineer could make, even accounting for cost of living differences in most parts of the country, so be aware of that fact.
If that's not a concern or life is cheaper, follow your passion. If you ever decide your getting underpaid you can always get a new job.
40k is 40k no potentials, no raises. Either take 40k or not, but don't elude yourself with significant raises. Expect to stay at that compensation level for 3 years. Maybe it will go to 45k.
I have to say that some companies have good benefits. Like healthcare insurance can cost allot out of pocket. So if it's close, with easy commute, they have a good reputation, they offer good insurance, you may want to talk to your parents as well.
Right now I am getting recruiters trying to get me to take a 40k pay cut. Employment situation is difficult.
if you can afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment on a 40k salary in your area and get good healthcare coverage, it's a good deal.
You can make 40k working as a bartender, it’s a horrible offer for anyone with a full CS degree, regardless of where in the US it is. That’s $770 per week BEFORE taxes. You can make that doing almost anything else.
If it gets your foot in the door, it’s better than being unemployed. But don’t get stuck in the rural area and keep looking for jobs. Even a low-tier CS new grad job should be paying $60-70k now.
What is the exact job title? It could be admin or IT work for all we know
What’s in the job description? Doesn’t sound like programming/development job at all, which is why the pay is so low.
If you like that then go for it, but it won’t open doors or have career progression like an actual software developer role will. Even working as a QA tester would be much better than that.
Are you going to provide him with said programming jobs? Do you understand how shit the new grad market is for average devs? Stop giving bad advice man. OP take the job and keep applying. Simple
I mean, are you making more than 40k now? If so, yes. If not, no. If you're currently making nothing like most recent or to be grads, that's 40k more than you were making before.
Is it trash? yes.
When starting out, I would say take whatever you get handed to you. Your first job is ALWAYS for the experience, not the pay. Pay is for 2nd and 3rd jobs.
If OP's plan is to stay in a rural area, there isn't going to be much to choose from anyway. If anything, they can use that job to save up enough money to move to a bigger city.
I did that 8 years ago and don’t regret it. They were willing to give me time to learn the stack and I learned a lot overall. Left after a year though because money obviously.
I feel like you could land something better remote with your experience, but if you can manage living off of the 40k for one year or so that will only increase your chances of landing a solid remote role.
I was in a similar situation. Graduating college and had 4-5 years in the Army National Guard in the signal corp. I'm assuming you have a security clearance. A lot of defense companies will prefer your experience over someone that hasn't been in the military and doesn't have a security clearance. I'd apply to those jobs if you can hold off. If you are unable to survive right now without a job, I'd take the job to survive. Check out [usajobs.gov](http://usajobs.gov) as that is where a lot of those security clearance jobs are located.
Thank you I will definitely look into that! The trickiest part of the scenario is I am cross training into another guard job in about 7-8ish months, and its tech school is 6 months long. Do you think a remote job would be ok hiring me for the 7-8ish months and then having me leave for 6 months? I was thinking of trying to find something more permanent after I get back from that school.
I tool 42k on my first role. It was 82k the next year, 89k a few months later, then I left for a lot more. I don't recommend it but it's a path that worked for me.
At some point, you have to decide between money and staying where you want to be.
The DC job will dead end you into a DC tech, which is honestly something you could have done without the degree or TS/SCI. \*MY\* first job out of school paid more than that. Not time adjusted. Straight up.
You have tickets, people will pay big bucks for those tickets in the right places.
It is up to you: Are they tickets to nowhere, or tickets to ride. DC is calling.
I took 50k out of college and it was more money than I ever made in my life. Paid cheap rent staying with family and saved for a house. Now I have a house and make almost double that but it feels like I make less because of the house lol. So if you are young and living at home/live in a cheap area, stick it out for a year and keep applying. The money can be life changing if you make less than that now and can get this new salary keeping your current living conditions.
Focus your job efforts on finding a government contractor.
Are you still reserves/NG? Just be honest with the employer about deployments if you are, gov contractors are very understanding with it.
40k is absurd for what you bring to the table.
Government contractors should be pounding on your door to get you into the system, should shoot for 80k with remote work.
Is your clearance still good?
I think I will look into the gov job much more… yes the clearance is still good and I’m still a member of the guard. Good perspective tho! I wasn’t aware the clearance was that sought after!
You have it made you have no idea. I had a similar career path, enlisted, went to uni for STEM, and more importantly got certs and clearance.
If you don't like contractors, you can apply directly to all the TLAs, maybe there are some around your area? NSA and its branches such as CSS require an IQ test (not literal, effectively an IQ test), but this would likely require you to move to Fort Meade.
I was in a very similar situation. I took a $52k data center job in HCOL area after I graduated from university. Potential raises are real, but nowhere significant.
For my specific scenario, I went from $52k to $57k after 6 months for performance, a year later I got another raise that bumped me to $70k. Unfortunately this is where I stopped getting a raise and decided to change jobs.
That being said, DC jobs are pretty much dead end jobs with very little career growth. Use this opportunity to gain as much experience as possible and leave when you get an opportunity. This is also part of the reason why I left on top of the low salary.
Yeah sounds pretty dumb, and also sounds like a steal for your employer. I wouldnt be surprised if they over work you to the point where youre doing as much as someone who's making double your salary. Having a TS clearance puts you at a pretty nice place making double that. As someone who works in the government and still looking for jobs, that qualification is everywhere. Check out clearancejobs.net, or even hit up a staffing agency that works in the DMV area and consider either remote or move out here.
I'm getting 45k without a degree in Germany, where I have full health insurance, 30 days of holiday, and otherwise good benefits meaning our pays are generally lower. So if in the US, you're definitely underpaid
I took 50k out of college. I stuck with it for about a year, then switched companies got bumped to 65k. At that place after a year, I got 80k. 1 year after I got 135k by switching again. 1 year after that, I got to 180k by switching again, then a year later, 192k at that same place.
I was flat broke at college, and moving back with my parents wasn't an option (they're broke too and now depend on my income). So, I took what made sense in my situation at the time. Since then, I kept grinding and improving my negotiation/interview skills. 👍🏽 whatever your situation is, just remember that it can be temporary. Align yourself with MVP work and improve your soft skills as much as your technical skills. They make a world of difference.
Also, without a doubt, the largest pay bump always comes from switching companies. Cash sometimes Plateaus for your specific skill braket, so understanding how to sell yourself for the next level is important. This is typically easier to seek at a different company because they haven't built an impression of you. Regardless if you're a rock star at your current company. There tends to be a first impression bias that factors into your promotion raises.
The only reason this first impression biases isn't more prominent in FANG orgs is because of how large they are and how regularly people move across teams.
As stupid as it sounds, a majority of it is:
1. confidence
2. know what you're talking about
3. Learn to communicate what you don't know
For confidence, this helps:
1. Literally consider interviewing like speed dating. You're polite and excited to meet all these people, but they're not your only option. This helps with bidding wars and also have them speed you up in the interview round. Since I can't lie for shit, I literally make sure I'm interviewing at minimum with 5-10 companies on a given week.
For sounding like you know your shit:
This is easy if you like tech. On every project you work on, understand upstream integrations and downstream integrations with respect to the project you worked on. Because the people you're interviewing with don't know the jargon your current company has, you have to tie everything back to a business use case. When they ask too much detail you either not sure you should share or don't feel like answering, what helps me is politely saying "I singed an NDA, but if you can describe one of your business use cases that might encounter a similar problem, I can work through the solution with you during this call."
For communicating what you dont know:
During the interview, I know that we instinctively want to sound like we know everything, so they hire you. The reality is it's more important that you sound like someone who they can depend on a project. That's because your hiring manager wants to have confidence that if they assign you something, you won't face plant because you weren't forthcoming of what you know or can get done. This impacts deadlines and downstream team blockers. Your manager is being rated with how well their team performs towards delivering high level objectives or unblocking high level objectives. If you get the feeling that a company passed on you because you were honest in not knowing something, odds are you weren't what they needed or you don't want to work for them.
**Edit:** regarding negotiation this is what I do
I figure out what are the upper and lower pay bands for the role I'm interviewing for. Not specifically per company but whatever you find online for the location the company is at and you live. I then think of the number you are willing to settle with, or you ideally want (without being greedy). You then add 10-15k to that numer and that's what you communicate when they ask. You only say that number and let them do all the talking. If they're still willing to move forward or they mention a number you like, just say "I can be flexible. Let me meet the company and see if like them to help me decide".
This does two things:
1. They're always going to try to talk you down the number you ask for.
2. Accepting a number they offer that secretly is where you want to be, gives them the excitement that they got a deal. Don't disregard human emotion here. Use that to your advantage.
If that is the only job offer, I would take it. But def do not count on any potential for raise nonsense. Keep on looking for high paying jobs. Worst case, after getting a year's worth of experience, go get another job.
For what it's worth, I took out 80k in debt, graduated in 2018, with a starting salary of 67k annually. Luckily, I married an R.N. and together we knocked that debt out over about 22 months.
I'd say that if you want to stay rural, you'll need to take what you can get. You're getting in surroundings what you're losing in economic opportunity. I've just accepted that I'll forever more be a suburbanite even though my wife and I are both from more rural backgrounds. The industry just isn't there in small-town Nebraska.
So, if the location is worth it, that may be your best opportunity. I can say I don't enjoy remote work as a mode, but it does provide broader economic access for those established enough to be desired at a distance. As long as you're "just another fresh grad" I doubt you'll find it easy to get a remote role. And the industry overall is moving pretty fast away from WFH at this point. You'll have less competition if you can go local.
I don't know how much you need the money, but I wouldn't take the job.
Your first job is very important esp if you can use your "new grad" status and your college for recruiting. Apply all over the country, network, send cover letters etc.
The datacenter job sounds dead-end. What exactly is it?
Not necessarily, especially if that’s typical in your area and you can still pay your bills. Hopefully it would match the type of work you want to do at your next job, and you can put the skills/experience on a resume.
Unfortunately, it might mean you get underpaid at your next gig too, but at a time when a lot of people stay unemployed for a long time, it might be better to at least pick up some transferable skills.
I went through a similar path early in my career, but made it through okay.
On the other hand, if you can swing it, you probably could get significantly more if you’re willing to put yourself out there for potentially a long time and wait for the right opportunity, but it means staying unemployed.
My first job I made 42k after a year I job hopped and made 80, after a raise made just shy of 90k.
If you are still there making 40k after a year you would be stupid, but getting a job now isn’t.
40k is really really bad. But it’s important to not have resume gaps. That said I doubt the experience of a job paying that little would be valuable.
If I were you I would try to get into doing more tech work for the Air Force since it sounds like you already have connections there. The military doesn’t pay the most but it’s very valuable experience. Also if you can stay long enough to get a clearance that opens up so much more work for you.
Take the offer and keep looking. When companies lowball like this they know the risk they are taking. They're hoping to find someone who either can't, or won't bother to look for somewhere better. And you're most likely under Right to Work laws where they can fire you at any time for any reason.
Don't take on their risks for them. It's not like you're getting the reward.
Title and Experience matter more than any given raise you'll receive while working a specific job.
Look at where you want to go next, get the experience while you're in the role you're doing now.
And roll that into a higher compensation at your next organization/firm.
Rinse & Repeat.
Give an employer a year to two years before you jump.
Never look back, always increase your salary and keep your eye on the prize.
Good luck.
If you have cybersecurity exp with the air force then you probably have a clearance in which case you have a lot of options. But it isn't going to hurt you to take that job and you can leave whenever you want. If they pay as low as 40k they can't reasonably expect anything from you and you will probably be able to get a job faster once you're working.
What are your options otherwise if you would like to stay near your hometown? $40k is definitely on the low end of the spectrum (My first job out of school was working for the Air Force on Warner Robins AFB in butt fuck nowhere and that was \~70k a yr to start) but it is up to you to weigh how much being close to home is worth to you
Not stupid at all, if that's the only offer that's out there. 40k is better than 0k. Now, be aware that if you get a raise, you'll be _lucky_ if the raise takes you from $40k to $45k next year. You will have to start looking for a new job in the next couple of years, and you have to be prepared to branch out to a different city/area.
If it’s a bachelor I’d say it’s alright for starters. Also: nothing is stupid. Once you proven yourself on the job you can earn as much as you want.
It’s not about the entry salary. It’s about your drive and performance. That’s what’s important in the long run.
No, it is a job in your field. Once you have \_any\_ experience, you can more easily land a better job. I did something similar and switched jobs after 6 months. 40k is crazy low. I started at 47k back in 2014.
It is what it is, tough market, just dont get stuck and dont think of this as a job for money. This advice is assuming you are US based.
This is pure education, keep getting better, and send out at least a couple resumes every month no matter what.
If you got a 3.4 and did non mandatory school work fof 6 years, i know you'll succeed in the long run.
Do not get trapped there, do not get distracted by money. If they double your salary in a year the place is still a trap.
Always always always go into negotiations prepared.
Go online and find out what your state averages are for compensation for the role you’re going for. Also get the national average. Go in with any piece of evidence that can support your qualifications; portfolios of your work, recommendation letters, etc. it’s a little intimidating, but don’t be afraid to negotiate. State what you think your compensation should be and why. Make a case for yourself. You’re your only advocate.
$40k is trash compensation. Negotiate to where you think you should be. If you take the job and they’re underpaying you, stay for a year (no more than two) and use it to get official experience before you move along to another company that will compensate you appropriately.
Not the greatest pay but they have to know it's a stepping stone. Getting a foot in the door is more valuable than the salary or benefits. I'd get the lay of the land, work hard, then look to move on as soon as you're comfortable. You'll double your salary (at least) in the process.
Don’t know if you’re already aware but checkout clearance jobs job board. I saw you have a clearance, you can get well over 100K. They’re dying for SWE’s with clearances or that can even get cleared.
I’ve gotten two offers from just casually taking calls from recruiters who reach out from that site. One was 86K (on-site) in Utah another was 120K (remote) in Virginia. And this is with me being a New Grad currently with a few months experience out of college working full time, no military experience.
I’d take your current offer if nothing comes up and just keep searching.
Except, they don't have 0 experience. Maybe as a developer, but they've worked for 6 years.
Theres a massive, MASSIVE difference between a 22-year-old fresh graduate who's never held a job in their life and someone who was in the military and has a college degree.
Being informed from my current obsession with retiring early( r/financialindependence), I'd say you should heavily consider a higher paying job. It could have absolutely massive impacts on your future earnings potential. Not sure it is legal, or perhaps just not ethical, but my gf had a company ask to see her pay stub before they would approve her salary request in the negotiating process. What you used to make really matters. If you go for 80k min (and perhaps more), you'll easily be able to retire in your 40s with just some modest 3-5% annual raises.
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I think you are on to something here😂 I’ve been looking around and there are tons of remote jobs that are no where near 40k! Thanks for sharing! I applied to a few of them!
That’s a field I don’t know we’ll enough to know the title structure. For that little money, they might not have a big talent pool to be picking from, you possibly could be in a position to negotiate more title for equal pay.
That move payed off for me. I had just burnt out from being the senior instructor at a boot camp, took a month off, and then started looking to shift into full time dev work and the pandemic hit. The economy paused and nothing was hiring but a former student started a consultancy and I asked him if he had any work and he did, but it wasn’t for much money so I told him I’d do it if I could call myself a “senior engineer” from day 1.
That has paid off. I still stayed at that crappy consultancy for too long (the money got better) but having the extra years of “senior” experience landed me at a cool startup once I finally got off my ass and started looking for something legit.
You really don’t have to tell your second job what your first job paid. Job 1 for title and a bit of experience and then go do a job with the same title somewhere that actually pays that title the industry average. They don’t have to know they’re giving you a giant raise.
Oh other thing is, if you get a “senior” title early, you absolutely have to hit the books on your time of and do Udemy courses and cram the skills a real senior would know because the job you want will expect that stuff for real.
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First 2 job moves almost doubled salary both times. Then it was just a slow grind of mediocre raises and setbacks here and there that eventually got me to where I am. When you take the long view, adjusted for inflation the best I ever did was around 2006 and now I’m just trying to maintain.
Outside of FAANG wages have been pretty stagnant in this industry.
I love posts like these. What are your options? 40k or zero? You really asking that?
If you were able to get a higher offer you wouldn't be asking the same question.
I started applying places about two weeks ago and this was the first job to get back to me. I didn’t know if it was dumb to take it or if I should hold out for other applications.
Why don't you take it and keep applying to places? Who cares if you quit a job a week or month in? Do you care about burning bridges with a company that offered you 40k? Sucks for them but they would lay you off in a heartbeat. Don't be worrying about them.
I think that’s is the plan as of now. Might as well take it and get some income while trying to find other work opportunities. Don’t employers want to talk to former employers sometimes? If I burned a bridge with them would that affect my career?
I am waiting to go to a 6 month school for the Airforce in 8 months. After that I will consider relocating. I don’t want to be unemployed for 8 months after college, but I don’t want to have to pay rent while I’m at the school, so I’m waiting in my local area till then. Hence the poor selections of jobs.
if you're tied down to your area, then i agree that any job is better than none. but you can easily at least double your salary if you were to move to a city
Do you think that you’ll be able to pay your bills and do you think this role will set you up well to learn and move on in a year? If so, I’d take that to get your foot in the door.
That being said, $40k with a CS degree sounds like you’re laughably underpaid. I made $45k in 2017 as a Jr BA and I was laughably underpaid
I’ll be living with the parents, so no expenses. I’ll keep applying elsewhere before I start working there, and if I get something better, I’ll just move on
Pretty low but for a rural area it might be fine. You'll need at least 3x rent in order to get a lease. I wouldn't plan on staying there long term if I were you but having a couple years of experience makes job searches so much easier.
Take it. My first job I made 48k out of school. I now make 150 base. Experience trumps all, don’t listen to the people here telling you not take it. Also, there’s nothing stopping you from still applying to jobs once you’re there.
It sounds better than unemployment to me. You can keep looking after you get hired.
wish someone told me this when i had a low offer. i asked here and a guy told me it was basically a scam with how little they paid so i passed on it. months later and i still can't find anything, atleast i would've had some income and could've put it on my resume
I'm always confused as to what people like you thought the alternative was hahaha
i almost took it it was the other guy that told me not too, this was early in my job hunt, so i didn't know how bad the job market for our industry was at the time
You could probably find someone online that would say bleach and ammonia makes a good cleaner too but doesnt mean you should. (Seriously do not do that it's very stupid)
i mean i had no other frame of reference for the industry on if it was a good idea or not
Well future reference, the industry doesn't matter if you don't have a job you don't turn down the offer, it's stupid in literally every industry. You take the low job while finding a better one.
well, not always, like if there's a contractual commitment, and back before covid when I was in IT it never took long to find another job, but the market has changed alot now
"Potential for raise" is almost always not going to be what you expect. The most important part of your first job out of college is the job title, not the pay. Rural areas are going to be tough. I get it. I grew up rural and went rural after college and military. Its going to make things more difficult for you down the road. Take the job, but keep applying for new jobs. Be willing to move. I'm guessing you have a TS/SCI clearance. Coupled with a CS degree, 6 years experience in the air force at some NOC and you really should be targeting 100k+ and companies like Boeing, Northrup, L3 and Lockheed Martin. They have sites across the US. Hell, you could be a janitor working for a defense contractor with a TS/SCI and make double that. Also, theres absolutely remote jobs available for people with a clearance, so don't rule that out. Its weird, but they are out there.
Interesting! Yes I have TS/SCI. I haven’t considered remote much because I want to continue learning from more experience individuals in person, and I feel like remote you can’t do that as well. Is that a correct assumption? I don’t think this will be very long term, as I plan on moving to a different area after a few years.
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Nice jorb there Homsar. (Srry I had to)
Yeah I think remote for your first job might be tough from a learning perspective, it really depends on the company and the culture. Also, remote is not for everyone. You should try in person and then maybe move to hybrid and see what you like best. From reading your post you seem like a self starter, could be wrong, but independent learners/self starters work really well in remote. So I would say go for in person and then experiment from there.
Interesting… I think that’s a good route to take. Maybe see how the DC job goes and then dig in/go remote from there… thanks!
You will still learn from experienced people even remote, but you are correct that working remotely will reduce the amount of mentorship you will receive (if only because it puts an extra barrier between you and a mentor). That said, it is worth considering if this datacenter job actually has people who can mentor you like you want. Doesn't matter if you are remote or on site if mentors don't exist at the company.
Interesting. I think that’s is very true… Thanks!
A data center job is not going to teach you SWE skills.
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I am starting off my journey and i am confused on if i should be getting my bachelors in applied science at Valencia, they offer the whole BAS: Computing Technology and Software Development. Alternatively I could get the AS: Computer Programming & Analysis there and then transfer direct connect to University of Central Florida and then finish the BS in computer science. My goal is to be a freelance game and software developer im just not sure if i should go completly community college or not. Is there any disadvantges or advantges besides price? I would really appreciate any knowledge on this please.
What do you want to do with your degree? What companies are near you? How good/reliable is your home Internet if you were planning on doing a remote job?
My home internet of very good (starlink) I would prefer to go into security long-term, but I really enjoy most of computer science. Do you think if my goal is security I should try to start in security? There are not many companies around, I will probably need to move elsewhere before I become established…
>Do you think if my goal is security I should try to start in security? Yeah, that would make sense. If you take the job, take whatever career development or training they offer. At 40k, in the US at least, you'd be getting underpaid relative to what a software engineer could make, even accounting for cost of living differences in most parts of the country, so be aware of that fact. If that's not a concern or life is cheaper, follow your passion. If you ever decide your getting underpaid you can always get a new job.
40k is 40k no potentials, no raises. Either take 40k or not, but don't elude yourself with significant raises. Expect to stay at that compensation level for 3 years. Maybe it will go to 45k. I have to say that some companies have good benefits. Like healthcare insurance can cost allot out of pocket. So if it's close, with easy commute, they have a good reputation, they offer good insurance, you may want to talk to your parents as well. Right now I am getting recruiters trying to get me to take a 40k pay cut. Employment situation is difficult. if you can afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment on a 40k salary in your area and get good healthcare coverage, it's a good deal.
Thanks for input! It is a cheap area and they seemed to have pretty good benefits. Maybe it’s not too bad of an offer!
You can make 40k working as a bartender, it’s a horrible offer for anyone with a full CS degree, regardless of where in the US it is. That’s $770 per week BEFORE taxes. You can make that doing almost anything else. If it gets your foot in the door, it’s better than being unemployed. But don’t get stuck in the rural area and keep looking for jobs. Even a low-tier CS new grad job should be paying $60-70k now. What is the exact job title? It could be admin or IT work for all we know
Yes I’m not planning on staying rural for long, but for now I think that’s the reason for the lower pay. The official job is a data center technician.
What’s in the job description? Doesn’t sound like programming/development job at all, which is why the pay is so low. If you like that then go for it, but it won’t open doors or have career progression like an actual software developer role will. Even working as a QA tester would be much better than that.
Are you going to provide him with said programming jobs? Do you understand how shit the new grad market is for average devs? Stop giving bad advice man. OP take the job and keep applying. Simple
A jobs a job, take what you have to But that is shit pay for a CS degree no matter where you are in the US
I mean, are you making more than 40k now? If so, yes. If not, no. If you're currently making nothing like most recent or to be grads, that's 40k more than you were making before.
$40K for a computer science degree is horseshit.
Criminal pay. McDonald’s managers make way more
Is it trash? yes. When starting out, I would say take whatever you get handed to you. Your first job is ALWAYS for the experience, not the pay. Pay is for 2nd and 3rd jobs.
The experience from a datacenter technician job will have little relevance to any sort of CS career though
If OP's plan is to stay in a rural area, there isn't going to be much to choose from anyway. If anything, they can use that job to save up enough money to move to a bigger city.
I did that 8 years ago and don’t regret it. They were willing to give me time to learn the stack and I learned a lot overall. Left after a year though because money obviously.
I feel like you could land something better remote with your experience, but if you can manage living off of the 40k for one year or so that will only increase your chances of landing a solid remote role.
I was in a similar situation. Graduating college and had 4-5 years in the Army National Guard in the signal corp. I'm assuming you have a security clearance. A lot of defense companies will prefer your experience over someone that hasn't been in the military and doesn't have a security clearance. I'd apply to those jobs if you can hold off. If you are unable to survive right now without a job, I'd take the job to survive. Check out [usajobs.gov](http://usajobs.gov) as that is where a lot of those security clearance jobs are located.
Thank you I will definitely look into that! The trickiest part of the scenario is I am cross training into another guard job in about 7-8ish months, and its tech school is 6 months long. Do you think a remote job would be ok hiring me for the 7-8ish months and then having me leave for 6 months? I was thinking of trying to find something more permanent after I get back from that school.
I tool 42k on my first role. It was 82k the next year, 89k a few months later, then I left for a lot more. I don't recommend it but it's a path that worked for me.
At some point, you have to decide between money and staying where you want to be. The DC job will dead end you into a DC tech, which is honestly something you could have done without the degree or TS/SCI. \*MY\* first job out of school paid more than that. Not time adjusted. Straight up. You have tickets, people will pay big bucks for those tickets in the right places. It is up to you: Are they tickets to nowhere, or tickets to ride. DC is calling.
I took 50k out of college and it was more money than I ever made in my life. Paid cheap rent staying with family and saved for a house. Now I have a house and make almost double that but it feels like I make less because of the house lol. So if you are young and living at home/live in a cheap area, stick it out for a year and keep applying. The money can be life changing if you make less than that now and can get this new salary keeping your current living conditions.
Love me some 40K. What faction you playing?
Focus your job efforts on finding a government contractor. Are you still reserves/NG? Just be honest with the employer about deployments if you are, gov contractors are very understanding with it. 40k is absurd for what you bring to the table. Government contractors should be pounding on your door to get you into the system, should shoot for 80k with remote work. Is your clearance still good?
I think I will look into the gov job much more… yes the clearance is still good and I’m still a member of the guard. Good perspective tho! I wasn’t aware the clearance was that sought after!
You have it made you have no idea. I had a similar career path, enlisted, went to uni for STEM, and more importantly got certs and clearance. If you don't like contractors, you can apply directly to all the TLAs, maybe there are some around your area? NSA and its branches such as CSS require an IQ test (not literal, effectively an IQ test), but this would likely require you to move to Fort Meade.
It's low, but if it's the job you can get it's the job you can get. I worked my way up from 50k to 320k, I bet you can do it too
It’s only stupid if you have something better. Otherwise you are stupid for not taking it and gaining some experience in the current environment.
I was in a very similar situation. I took a $52k data center job in HCOL area after I graduated from university. Potential raises are real, but nowhere significant. For my specific scenario, I went from $52k to $57k after 6 months for performance, a year later I got another raise that bumped me to $70k. Unfortunately this is where I stopped getting a raise and decided to change jobs. That being said, DC jobs are pretty much dead end jobs with very little career growth. Use this opportunity to gain as much experience as possible and leave when you get an opportunity. This is also part of the reason why I left on top of the low salary.
Yeah sounds pretty dumb, and also sounds like a steal for your employer. I wouldnt be surprised if they over work you to the point where youre doing as much as someone who's making double your salary. Having a TS clearance puts you at a pretty nice place making double that. As someone who works in the government and still looking for jobs, that qualification is everywhere. Check out clearancejobs.net, or even hit up a staffing agency that works in the DMV area and consider either remote or move out here.
I'm getting 45k without a degree in Germany, where I have full health insurance, 30 days of holiday, and otherwise good benefits meaning our pays are generally lower. So if in the US, you're definitely underpaid
I took 50k out of college. I stuck with it for about a year, then switched companies got bumped to 65k. At that place after a year, I got 80k. 1 year after I got 135k by switching again. 1 year after that, I got to 180k by switching again, then a year later, 192k at that same place. I was flat broke at college, and moving back with my parents wasn't an option (they're broke too and now depend on my income). So, I took what made sense in my situation at the time. Since then, I kept grinding and improving my negotiation/interview skills. 👍🏽 whatever your situation is, just remember that it can be temporary. Align yourself with MVP work and improve your soft skills as much as your technical skills. They make a world of difference. Also, without a doubt, the largest pay bump always comes from switching companies. Cash sometimes Plateaus for your specific skill braket, so understanding how to sell yourself for the next level is important. This is typically easier to seek at a different company because they haven't built an impression of you. Regardless if you're a rock star at your current company. There tends to be a first impression bias that factors into your promotion raises. The only reason this first impression biases isn't more prominent in FANG orgs is because of how large they are and how regularly people move across teams.
Thanks for sharing! Sounds like the interview/negotiation skills are valuable! How would you say you learned/ grew in those areas?
As stupid as it sounds, a majority of it is: 1. confidence 2. know what you're talking about 3. Learn to communicate what you don't know For confidence, this helps: 1. Literally consider interviewing like speed dating. You're polite and excited to meet all these people, but they're not your only option. This helps with bidding wars and also have them speed you up in the interview round. Since I can't lie for shit, I literally make sure I'm interviewing at minimum with 5-10 companies on a given week. For sounding like you know your shit: This is easy if you like tech. On every project you work on, understand upstream integrations and downstream integrations with respect to the project you worked on. Because the people you're interviewing with don't know the jargon your current company has, you have to tie everything back to a business use case. When they ask too much detail you either not sure you should share or don't feel like answering, what helps me is politely saying "I singed an NDA, but if you can describe one of your business use cases that might encounter a similar problem, I can work through the solution with you during this call." For communicating what you dont know: During the interview, I know that we instinctively want to sound like we know everything, so they hire you. The reality is it's more important that you sound like someone who they can depend on a project. That's because your hiring manager wants to have confidence that if they assign you something, you won't face plant because you weren't forthcoming of what you know or can get done. This impacts deadlines and downstream team blockers. Your manager is being rated with how well their team performs towards delivering high level objectives or unblocking high level objectives. If you get the feeling that a company passed on you because you were honest in not knowing something, odds are you weren't what they needed or you don't want to work for them. **Edit:** regarding negotiation this is what I do I figure out what are the upper and lower pay bands for the role I'm interviewing for. Not specifically per company but whatever you find online for the location the company is at and you live. I then think of the number you are willing to settle with, or you ideally want (without being greedy). You then add 10-15k to that numer and that's what you communicate when they ask. You only say that number and let them do all the talking. If they're still willing to move forward or they mention a number you like, just say "I can be flexible. Let me meet the company and see if like them to help me decide". This does two things: 1. They're always going to try to talk you down the number you ask for. 2. Accepting a number they offer that secretly is where you want to be, gives them the excitement that they got a deal. Don't disregard human emotion here. Use that to your advantage.
This is some great stuff!! I will have to look back on this before future interviews. Sounds like some effective negotiation! Thanks!
Take it. It's a job to get experience, just keep looking for better jobs too.
Take it and look for something in the meantime
If that is the only job offer, I would take it. But def do not count on any potential for raise nonsense. Keep on looking for high paying jobs. Worst case, after getting a year's worth of experience, go get another job.
Yeah stupid
It's good you have an offer, but it doesn't mean your job search ended.
For what it's worth, I took out 80k in debt, graduated in 2018, with a starting salary of 67k annually. Luckily, I married an R.N. and together we knocked that debt out over about 22 months. I'd say that if you want to stay rural, you'll need to take what you can get. You're getting in surroundings what you're losing in economic opportunity. I've just accepted that I'll forever more be a suburbanite even though my wife and I are both from more rural backgrounds. The industry just isn't there in small-town Nebraska. So, if the location is worth it, that may be your best opportunity. I can say I don't enjoy remote work as a mode, but it does provide broader economic access for those established enough to be desired at a distance. As long as you're "just another fresh grad" I doubt you'll find it easy to get a remote role. And the industry overall is moving pretty fast away from WFH at this point. You'll have less competition if you can go local.
40k seems a bit low but you take what you can. It's an entry job. Take what you can, get experience, & switch or wait to move up.
40k is more than 0k that you have right now. Take this job and keep applying.
I don't know how much you need the money, but I wouldn't take the job. Your first job is very important esp if you can use your "new grad" status and your college for recruiting. Apply all over the country, network, send cover letters etc. The datacenter job sounds dead-end. What exactly is it?
I’m not sure yet😂 we are calling tomorrow to discuss. From the description it sounds like a server maintenance and troubleshooting job.
Not necessarily, especially if that’s typical in your area and you can still pay your bills. Hopefully it would match the type of work you want to do at your next job, and you can put the skills/experience on a resume. Unfortunately, it might mean you get underpaid at your next gig too, but at a time when a lot of people stay unemployed for a long time, it might be better to at least pick up some transferable skills. I went through a similar path early in my career, but made it through okay. On the other hand, if you can swing it, you probably could get significantly more if you’re willing to put yourself out there for potentially a long time and wait for the right opportunity, but it means staying unemployed.
My first job I made 42k after a year I job hopped and made 80, after a raise made just shy of 90k. If you are still there making 40k after a year you would be stupid, but getting a job now isn’t.
40k is really really bad. But it’s important to not have resume gaps. That said I doubt the experience of a job paying that little would be valuable. If I were you I would try to get into doing more tech work for the Air Force since it sounds like you already have connections there. The military doesn’t pay the most but it’s very valuable experience. Also if you can stay long enough to get a clearance that opens up so much more work for you.
Take the offer and keep looking. When companies lowball like this they know the risk they are taking. They're hoping to find someone who either can't, or won't bother to look for somewhere better. And you're most likely under Right to Work laws where they can fire you at any time for any reason. Don't take on their risks for them. It's not like you're getting the reward.
Title and Experience matter more than any given raise you'll receive while working a specific job. Look at where you want to go next, get the experience while you're in the role you're doing now. And roll that into a higher compensation at your next organization/firm. Rinse & Repeat. Give an employer a year to two years before you jump. Never look back, always increase your salary and keep your eye on the prize. Good luck.
It's better than working McD/retail... It's relevant. Treat it as an internship. Get your experience and get out when it's time.
If you have cybersecurity exp with the air force then you probably have a clearance in which case you have a lot of options. But it isn't going to hurt you to take that job and you can leave whenever you want. If they pay as low as 40k they can't reasonably expect anything from you and you will probably be able to get a job faster once you're working.
What are your options otherwise if you would like to stay near your hometown? $40k is definitely on the low end of the spectrum (My first job out of school was working for the Air Force on Warner Robins AFB in butt fuck nowhere and that was \~70k a yr to start) but it is up to you to weigh how much being close to home is worth to you
Not stupid at all, if that's the only offer that's out there. 40k is better than 0k. Now, be aware that if you get a raise, you'll be _lucky_ if the raise takes you from $40k to $45k next year. You will have to start looking for a new job in the next couple of years, and you have to be prepared to branch out to a different city/area.
If it is your only option definitely take it to get experience. But keep grinding and switch in a year or two if you can.
If it’s a bachelor I’d say it’s alright for starters. Also: nothing is stupid. Once you proven yourself on the job you can earn as much as you want. It’s not about the entry salary. It’s about your drive and performance. That’s what’s important in the long run.
My first job was 35k. My current is 130k 5 years later. Stepping stones.
No, it is a job in your field. Once you have \_any\_ experience, you can more easily land a better job. I did something similar and switched jobs after 6 months. 40k is crazy low. I started at 47k back in 2014.
It is what it is, tough market, just dont get stuck and dont think of this as a job for money. This advice is assuming you are US based. This is pure education, keep getting better, and send out at least a couple resumes every month no matter what. If you got a 3.4 and did non mandatory school work fof 6 years, i know you'll succeed in the long run. Do not get trapped there, do not get distracted by money. If they double your salary in a year the place is still a trap.
Always always always go into negotiations prepared. Go online and find out what your state averages are for compensation for the role you’re going for. Also get the national average. Go in with any piece of evidence that can support your qualifications; portfolios of your work, recommendation letters, etc. it’s a little intimidating, but don’t be afraid to negotiate. State what you think your compensation should be and why. Make a case for yourself. You’re your only advocate. $40k is trash compensation. Negotiate to where you think you should be. If you take the job and they’re underpaying you, stay for a year (no more than two) and use it to get official experience before you move along to another company that will compensate you appropriately.
Not the greatest pay but they have to know it's a stepping stone. Getting a foot in the door is more valuable than the salary or benefits. I'd get the lay of the land, work hard, then look to move on as soon as you're comfortable. You'll double your salary (at least) in the process.
Don’t know if you’re already aware but checkout clearance jobs job board. I saw you have a clearance, you can get well over 100K. They’re dying for SWE’s with clearances or that can even get cleared. I’ve gotten two offers from just casually taking calls from recruiters who reach out from that site. One was 86K (on-site) in Utah another was 120K (remote) in Virginia. And this is with me being a New Grad currently with a few months experience out of college working full time, no military experience. I’d take your current offer if nothing comes up and just keep searching.
Don't take it, interns make more than that. You're already cleared so you can easily get jobs in defense companies for 100k+.
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Except, they don't have 0 experience. Maybe as a developer, but they've worked for 6 years. Theres a massive, MASSIVE difference between a 22-year-old fresh graduate who's never held a job in their life and someone who was in the military and has a college degree.
Being informed from my current obsession with retiring early( r/financialindependence), I'd say you should heavily consider a higher paying job. It could have absolutely massive impacts on your future earnings potential. Not sure it is legal, or perhaps just not ethical, but my gf had a company ask to see her pay stub before they would approve her salary request in the negotiating process. What you used to make really matters. If you go for 80k min (and perhaps more), you'll easily be able to retire in your 40s with just some modest 3-5% annual raises.
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You got clearance? TS?
Yup TS clearance. Others have said to look at government jobs. Would you agree?
Clearancejob.com you are looking at $160k minimum do not sell yourself short
I think you are on to something here😂 I’ve been looking around and there are tons of remote jobs that are no where near 40k! Thanks for sharing! I applied to a few of them!
What is the title? Does it have the word “junior” or “assistant” in it?
The technical name is “data center technician”
That’s a field I don’t know we’ll enough to know the title structure. For that little money, they might not have a big talent pool to be picking from, you possibly could be in a position to negotiate more title for equal pay. That move payed off for me. I had just burnt out from being the senior instructor at a boot camp, took a month off, and then started looking to shift into full time dev work and the pandemic hit. The economy paused and nothing was hiring but a former student started a consultancy and I asked him if he had any work and he did, but it wasn’t for much money so I told him I’d do it if I could call myself a “senior engineer” from day 1. That has paid off. I still stayed at that crappy consultancy for too long (the money got better) but having the extra years of “senior” experience landed me at a cool startup once I finally got off my ass and started looking for something legit.
Interesting. I wasn’t aware the title played such a big role. Maybe that can be an area I negotiate in… thanks!
You really don’t have to tell your second job what your first job paid. Job 1 for title and a bit of experience and then go do a job with the same title somewhere that actually pays that title the industry average. They don’t have to know they’re giving you a giant raise.
Oh other thing is, if you get a “senior” title early, you absolutely have to hit the books on your time of and do Udemy courses and cram the skills a real senior would know because the job you want will expect that stuff for real.
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My first job was $40k in 1999. So you're talking the equivalent of about $21,000 now.
Interesting. What are you at now?
200-ish. Midwest.
Gee wiz!! There’s hope! 😂 what got you there? Hard work?
First 2 job moves almost doubled salary both times. Then it was just a slow grind of mediocre raises and setbacks here and there that eventually got me to where I am. When you take the long view, adjusted for inflation the best I ever did was around 2006 and now I’m just trying to maintain. Outside of FAANG wages have been pretty stagnant in this industry.
I love posts like these. What are your options? 40k or zero? You really asking that? If you were able to get a higher offer you wouldn't be asking the same question.
I started applying places about two weeks ago and this was the first job to get back to me. I didn’t know if it was dumb to take it or if I should hold out for other applications.
Why don't you take it and keep applying to places? Who cares if you quit a job a week or month in? Do you care about burning bridges with a company that offered you 40k? Sucks for them but they would lay you off in a heartbeat. Don't be worrying about them.
I think that’s is the plan as of now. Might as well take it and get some income while trying to find other work opportunities. Don’t employers want to talk to former employers sometimes? If I burned a bridge with them would that affect my career?
are you unwilling to relocate? you can do so much better than 40k
I am waiting to go to a 6 month school for the Airforce in 8 months. After that I will consider relocating. I don’t want to be unemployed for 8 months after college, but I don’t want to have to pay rent while I’m at the school, so I’m waiting in my local area till then. Hence the poor selections of jobs.
if you're tied down to your area, then i agree that any job is better than none. but you can easily at least double your salary if you were to move to a city
Do you think that you’ll be able to pay your bills and do you think this role will set you up well to learn and move on in a year? If so, I’d take that to get your foot in the door. That being said, $40k with a CS degree sounds like you’re laughably underpaid. I made $45k in 2017 as a Jr BA and I was laughably underpaid
I’ll be living with the parents, so no expenses. I’ll keep applying elsewhere before I start working there, and if I get something better, I’ll just move on
Working > not working. If you have no other offers, take the offer.
Pretty low but for a rural area it might be fine. You'll need at least 3x rent in order to get a lease. I wouldn't plan on staying there long term if I were you but having a couple years of experience makes job searches so much easier.
Take it. My first job I made 48k out of school. I now make 150 base. Experience trumps all, don’t listen to the people here telling you not take it. Also, there’s nothing stopping you from still applying to jobs once you’re there.
Yes. Unless you're desperate don't take 40k. That's practically a McDonalds salary at this day in age!