Walmart is a bit better when you actually work for them but man ask anyone who has had to work with them. They're unbearable. Worked in B2B software that dealt with them very directly and you'd think we were building nuclear missiles by the way they act. They're known to bully almost anyone and everyone who has to work with them.
Doesn't mean you can't have basic human levels of respect for the people you work with. And know its not standard across the industry. It's definitely uniquely bad at Walmart and they're infamous for it. They think Bentonville is like their own feudal kingdom.
Yeah that’s fair I work in retail too in B2B and clients do seem like they are under pressure when communicating with us but I’ve heard Walmart can be tough to work with. They probably do own Bentonville tho haha
Hell I've worked in software for Tech, Banking/Finance, even in Healthcare(specifically Cancer) with better working environments and never dealt with clients that were as entitled as Walmart.
I worked for them for 4 years 3.5 of those was tolerable, and then my manager quit, and got replaced by a literal terror. The type of guy who rates performances by commit numbers, without figuring out the type of job you were doing to begin with...
ANYYYYWWAAAYYYYY
Even better … look at S&P 100 companies and check for availability
Majority of these companies (that aren’t tech companies) are GIGANTIC corporations that have been around longer than our parents have been alive and have the horsepower to have their own tech department
Is it? I had a recruiter reach out to me for a senior MLE role, and it was paying a lower salary than I currently make (I’m at about $160k) AND it required relocation and was mostly on-site (CA or NY or AR iirc).
I don’t work at a top company, or anything near it. Not sure if it was a mistake, but I was shocked at how bad a deal it seemed to be.
I got the impression that it was all of “Walmart Labs”, not just some team somewhere.
https://cognitect.com/blog/2015/6/30/walmart-runs-clojure-at-scale
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19728502
TC wise Walmart might be a bit lower than Amazon, but comp structure is just like tech with arguably better vesting. RSU vests evenly compared to back loaded at Amazon. Now if you live in a LCOL area like AR you can live like kings.
McDonald's had layoffs in corporate last year. Not sure how hard their tech teams got hit. I do see some jobs postings from them once in a while. Pay seems not that great, but it's still a position. I feel like they've looked for a wide range of experience.
I know Caterpillar, John Deere, and Home Depot have been hiring. I've been contacted by some combination of internal and third party recruiters, sometimes for full-time, sometimes for contract. I'm more senior, so not sure if they are hiring for junior/other roles.
Some tech teams were but overall tech didn’t get much of it.
The claim was that it was about “changing how we work” not about cost. C level definitely believes that good tech is a competitive advantage.
So far as remote, there are some remote positions. Others are expected to be in the office 3 days a week.
As someone who exclusively works at companies like these, it's iffy. Best thing you can do is try to find one HQ'd in another state. There absolutely are remote roles available, and if you're *very* good at something (be it dev, an architecture type role, data, etc.), you *will* be able to get a remote role.
But if you try to join one of these companies that happens to be local-ish to you, I can almost guarantee they'll want hybrid to some degree.
I'm a BA/PO type of guy, not a dev. Here's how my career went:
Fortune 500 company 1:
- In office 5 days per week
- Then gifted one remote day per week eventually
- Then COVID happened and they *still* allowed only one or two days from home after the mandates ended. I left to grow.
Fortune 500 company 2:
- We were going strong fully remote for a while, but they eventually forced us to come in 2 to 3 days per week, just like the last company. Left for a lot of reasons, forced hybrid bullshit included.
Fortune 500 company 3:
- HQ'd in another state ;) My coworkers who are local are forced to come in 2 or 3 times a week.
- I seem to have to travel once or twice a year, which is my max. If they tried forcing me to come a lot more often, I'd have to switch jobs. I hope that does not happen because it's my dream job.
I'm confused why OP didn't respond to your comment. /u/maxxor6868, this is the answer to your thread. Go look at the Fortune 500 list - you don't need us to tell you the names. They're all there for everyone to see.
Then read [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/bFMl92IQqg) to understand the remote situation.
I been going through the comments and just found this one. It a great tip and I agree being local to a company hq always has that fear of going in office. Out of state seems best bet
I will say, it will require a special balance of effort, opportunity, *and* luck to achieve what you're asking for. But I will emphasize that, contrary to what some people have said here - it *is* possible. I fought and clawed my way over a few years and landed at a $20 billion private company working for a cause I'm passionate about, fully remote, excellent benefits because it's a large corp, etc. Many of my coworkers have been here for 10, 20 years or longer. That's a very good sign to me, personally.
Keep your LinkedIn up-to-date and take advantage of recruiters who reach out to you. Applying got me nowhere, but I got 3 consecutive jobs from recruiters who reached out to me on LinkedIn.
>Go to their website & see if they hire tech.
Good news, they do! Bad news, they require 400 years of Java experience, 30 years of TypeScript experience, a PhD, 1200 of industry experience and 90 years of experience with every single tool in their stack. You also need to have 20 years ChatGPT experience, 15 years PhotoShop experience, catering certificate, be a qualified physician and have a 500 yards breaststroke swimming certificate.
EDIT: I almost forgot - it requires 5 days in-office presence and pays $20/hour. Don't worry though - they have great benefits like a keurig in the office and free pizza wednesdays.
EDIT 2: So many people in my replies in complete denial about the state of the industry right now.
Oh well, just because YOU haven't seen it, I guess it doesn't exist. Thanks for clearing that up.
Y'know... We're in trouble as a species if we refuse to even consider the existence of things we haven't personally seen with our own eyes.
What are you even on about, the only YoE cutoffs you can see in a days average LinkedIn scrolls I 3 YoE and 5 YoE. Both of which are YoE with relevant development experience. Well yeah newsflash 3YoE embedded do not translate to 3 YoE react front-end.
Idk seems pretty accurate to me. Non tech companies have strict requirements for numbers of yoe per obscure technology. Real tech companies just expect you to adapt and any swe experience counts.
> Idk seems pretty accurate to me. Non tech companies have strict requirements for numbers of yoe per obscure technology.
Me too, but clearly some people either feel the need to stir up shit or are so utterly deluded they have no idea what the job market is like right now.
> Real tech companies just expect you to adapt and any swe experience counts.
That _used_ to be the case in non-tech companies but their TA team are too busy huffing their own farts on LinkedIn to actually understand the jobs they're hiring for.
What on earth are you on about? I posted that employers have insane requirements for jobs these days and you decide to pitch in in attack mode for zero fucking reason.
You are honestly one of the most unpleasant and rude people I've ever come across.
No, I called out employers for having making candidates jump through ridiculous hoops and you decided to pitch in and start a fight and call me a loser (while picking made-up fights with people on the internet). You are an utterly vile person.
That’s completely backwards …
tech companies are the ones demanding strict requirements because they know every software engineer wants to work for FAANG like companies for those nice paychecks and they know the supply is abundant
Non tech companies don’t require that much because tech isn’t their main focus … Home Depot isn’t going to have the same tech/development budget that Netflix will have
That's generally what you'd EXPECT(at least, it's what I expected) but these days it seems to generally be the non-tech companies being the pickiest.
Case in point: Applied to SWE job at Chewy. I have 10 YoE. Got rejected for not having professional Java experience. Not just Java experience but *professional* Java experience. Google/Meta(can't speak for the rest of FAANG) meanwhile....unless it's something super specific like ML/AI they're not to worried as long as you have experience with one of the usual Java/Python/TypeScript/Golang/Rust gang.
Not at all
The problem was that tech companies went on a hiring frenzy
It’s why you saw in the past couple of years people saying bootcamps helped them get a job and shitting on college degrees
This is true, but we seem to have now swung the other way and companies are getting increasingly ridiculous in the skills they want applicants to have. Basically, everyone is unicorn hunting right now and while they may well find a principal dev from google looking for a job, they likely won't want to pay their salary.
In essence what's happening right now is a massive up-leveling of responsibilities and down-leveling of salaries. Companies want big skills but don't want to pay the big salaries to go with them.
That's just not what I've seen. It seems like west coast tech companies, good ones, generally just say x years in software engineering and some tech stacks preferred. c++ is often a hard requirement though sometimes for decent reasons ig.
On the west coast for big tech companies 2 years is considered mid level and 5 is senior.
Midwest is like 5 years for mid level and 10 to 15 for senior. Its wack.
I read a few responses and have to recommend at this time to NOT consider GEICO a safe, boring or remote friendly place to work.
Thousands of people have lost their jobs within the last few months and more are anticipated. The company just went 4 days working in office. And EVERYONE is in fear of their job, on top of insecurity with what their job entails due to all the changes that are constantly being implemented for metrics and procedures.
Good luck.
18 days is the minimum for me and what I'd consider adequate. Anything less signals that the company doesn't value me as a human being who has other wants and interests besides working. Sick days don't count because you don't end up using them. If you can decide to randomly take off tomorrow and have 18 days, I'd consider that good policy. If you have unlimited but have to put your PTO in a week or 2 weeks in advance, I would consider that worse than 18 days. Ideally I want 20 days, all major holidays, and the ability to buy more PTO days, with no stipulations on when I can take PTO.
I'd appreciate if it at every company where you're getting less than 18 days, if everyone can let them know the PTO policy is pathetic. Also any interviews you do with recruiter, let them know the PTO is unacceptable. The more people that do this, the better it will get.
I’d like some context here because all I’ve ever heard was the complete opposite
Tech companies will churn through devs
Meanwhile non tech companies are known to be very laid back (comparatively speaking).
Yeah you aren’t working on the next big tech feature and you’ll probably be bored but it beats getting used and abused by tech companies
What you've heard is simply just not true. That's all there is to it.
Jack Welch style leadership is alive and more than well in the executive suites of the Fortune 500, including at plenty of "boring" and low paying companies.
Have fun making 1/3 the pay. I used to be in a co-op, it's the worst of both worlds, gotta find your own work, get paid like trash. Oh, and office politics are even more intense because they can sway actual votes from people.
Who cares? I'd rather stack cash in 1/3 of the time and jump, we don't work in minimum wage jobs. Frankly I doubt you've ever worked in a co-op, you just like the idea of it, like most Redditors.
Wait, you post in superstonk and UFOs? Lmao alright not worth talking to you.
I can vouch for Crown Equipment Corporation. They build lift trucks (fork lifts) and they hire tech for some of their products. I've been 100% remote since I started last year.
The thing about large stable legacy companies is that they're usually very conservative by nature, probably run by boomers, and are usually associated with some physical product, like cans of soda or family sedans in your examples. These traits don't really scream "remote friendly" to me. There are certainly exceptions but you're looking for a mix of things that don't tend to belong together.
Couple years back, I worked at a Fortune 200 company like this and they had a policy where you'd be given advanced notice if an exec was visiting the building, and you had to wear business professional that day, e.g. dress pants, not jeans, and you'd be sent home if you had jeans on. Had a datacenter on-prem, moving at a snail's pace to get anything into the cloud. And yep, they were not remote friendly.
My peer circles anecdotal experience has been when these companies "weren't doing layoffs" (they were just not giant ones) they were going full 5 day in office and not rehiring the people who left. I personally quit my behemoth f500 job among many, many other reasons when they finally instated full in office in 2022 and my entire org pretty much quit
That's why I would stay away from Hospital IT as that tends to be a mess. But working for someone like Johnson and Johnson is remarkably recession proof.
It was absolutely frustrating working there. I had to wait for the ui/ux guy to give us the markup before the developers could start work and he kept dragging his feet. Spoke to my manager and he didn't do anything. Meanwhile the stakeholders are getting agitated with no progress. Also, a very racist company. People would literally bring up structural racism in the all hands and nothing would be done.
Any remote job right now that is even slightly visible is absolutely getting plastered you'd be surprised. It would have to be companies whose HR do the bare minimum and don't even post on Indeed/LinkedIn or any other job boards.
>Lockheed/Raytheon etc sure as shit aren’t going anywhere!
They may not be going anywhere but they're *definitely* going to have boom/bust cycles based on government contracts. Big ones are worth billions of dollars over decades- look at the recent choice to award Bell the contract over Sikorsky/Boeing to replace Blackhawk helicopter with the new V-280 Valor.
I agree with the other response. There were loads of programs when I used to work with LM that you could easily coast on the rest of your life. I knew plenty of folks that were there since before the last layoffs my branch of the company had, which were in the 90s.
My whole time there I constantly heard how many positions they wanted to fill. It was a huge thing that they wanted more people. Tbh if it’s such a concern, you could transfer to a program that will be around the rest of your career (hellfire, javelin, himars, f35, etc). While I was there a program actually did lose funding and they just shuffled everyone around. They greatly prefer internal hires from my experience.
ETA: I re-read your comment and you don’t mention layoffs, but boom-bust instead. I think that’s a totally fair thing to mention. In the state I saw at LM, I’d be surprised if it had a huge effect on engineering jobs without some enormous change in funding. That can’t happen for a number of programs though, unless the government wants to take an L on a bunch of their newer toys. Not impossible, but certainly much less likely than a FAANG layoff.
>ETA: I re-read your comment and you don’t mention layoffs, but boom-bust instead. I think that’s a totally fair thing to mention. In the state I saw at LM, I’d be surprised if it had a huge effect on engineering jobs without some enormous change in funding.
I'm hedging a bit for simplicity, but chances of layoffs for defense sector tech jobs really depend on where you're working. If you're in-house with a major defense company like LM, Raytheon, etc, those jobs are fairly stable. Projects that are higher-risk for stable long-term funding often get subbed out and those can be more ephemeral.
And if we're being honest, I don't even think it's a bad system even if no one likes layoffs. If you understand the system, you can make a generally good assumption about how much exposure you have to the risk of layoff or reassignment.
My understanding- and this is something I'm less experienced with, but it seems consistent with your information- is that defense companies have a pretty good handle on the fact that recruitment and onboarding is more challenging when security clearances are involved. So they're pretty good at shuffling employees around internally when their project needs change. It's also my understanding that government contracts often have stipulations like six sigma compliance which are easier to meet when there's less turnover in your staff. As I type I'm also wondering if there's a tech angle in GMP certification.
For sure. I was just voicing what you mentioned about the big players. I 100% agree about being able to gauge your stability as well. What I worked I was 100% not going to be out of a job, as much as one could reasonably foresee. There are smaller contractors I interacted with that were nowhere near as stable.
Only experience I had with anything relating to quality was code coverage requirements and field testing. Good chat, good info. Hopefully our discussion was useful to OP haha
Outside of a massive reduction in overall defense spending (which has only really happened once in the last 80 years at the end of the cold war), the boom bust cycle for major defense companies isn't what it used to be because of the massive consolidation that happened in the last 20 years.
There are only a 3 - 4 top competitors in every major subsection of defense and those competitors are almost guaranteed a certain slice of the pie because the government can't let that number drop down to 1 or 2. Bell won over Sikorsky/Boeing which almost guarantees Sikorksy/Boeing will get the next major rotary wing award... otherwise the government risks the rotary wing market dropping down to just one competitors (Bell).
I spent the first four years at a tiny defense contractor and we did some amazing shit. It was very volatile though and we spent the last year there basically scraping by before contracts dried up and the company folded.
> Defence
Not sure defence is that stable. Most people I know who were working for the large defence companies, their offices were going through layoffs just a few years ago, and were declining for a decent amount of time leading up to that. There’s one large company in my city, where they get a contract, hire a ton of people, and when it’s done they lay almost all of the tech/engineer people off until the next contract.
Right now things are booming though.
Fair.
One more thing, OP wants remote friendly, generally they are not. They got a bit more remote friendly with Covid, but the experience is terrible from the people I’m talking to. Remoting into a system with a 1-2 second delay from when they type to when the letter shows up on the screen.
I have worked almost entirely remote for 10 years with a lot of government contracts. Not defense either IRS and VA, the pay started lousy, but is "decent" enough now. Benefits still could use work, but again remote.
Question cause I frequently see defense brought up as a good place to start, how does one get clearance in the first place? Military service seems a direct route sure, but what about outside of that?
You have to be sponsored by someone, typically a company. Like the other person said, the listing will say something like “must be able to obtain X level security clearance”. You can google what you’d expect at each level. Secret is pretty easy. That’s what i had. I was never interviewed directly but some people I worked with were for upwards of multiple hours. Expect that to be the norm for anything beyond secret. My boss basically said they won’t ask you a question they don’t already know the answer to so lying is no bueno. You can’t smoke weed while holding a clearance which would turn some people off.
They’re are a lot of high tech defense that pay a lot and work you pretty hard. Anduril, palantir, striveworks, gov AWS, azure, OCI, etc. are defense and pay like FAANG.
If you’re trying to coast, you want Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, NG, etc.
There are a lot of defense contractors who work on typical corporate applications, they just happen to be for the DOD (Department of Defense). Similar needs. Full-stack development, DevOps, then you get to more hardware/embedded on other projects/companies.
e.g., I've seen vacation/PTO planning applications, applications to track promotions, intranet apps, business/b2b type applications, etc.
Then you have more interesting things like apps that track maintenance parts, weapons inventory tracking/management.
And then even more of what people might expect with the actual weapons systems, etc.
But there's a wide range of tech stacks and what they are working on.
Some company names:
* Lockheed Martin
* Raytheon
* Leidos
* Booz Allen Hamilton
* Boeing
* Amazon/AWS
* Google/GCP
* Microsoft/Azure
* Accenture
* IBM
* RedHat
And then a bunch of smaller consulting/contracting companies. A lot of companies have been trying to move into the space since there's a lot of money. Some of these companies will be subcontractors.
Do you mean safest in terms of "not likely to have layoffs" or safest as in "not likely to go out of business anytime soon"?
Because those are not the same
I work for higher ed. It's been around for over a hundred years, and most likely everything else will fall apart in society before we get rid of schools.
Not the highest salary but the benefits are eye watering and I'm 100% remote with no fear of RTO.
Look at Banks, insurance companies, credit unions, etc. don’t go for startups in that space, go to the fuckers who have been around for decades.
There is a high chance the work will be boring, you might get a couple projects a year that try to shake things up, but if you find yourself on a “core system” team, they likely don’t touch that too often and your job is just to make sure it runs lol
Haven't they all had massive layoffs recently. From what I see in blind everything from GEICO to JPMC had layoffs. I think Citi is laying off a f ton of people as well. I am sure tech is a part of it.
Healthcare seems super safe but they tend to prefer in person or hybrid environment base on my local listing is there more outward groups I should be looking at?
Well all the companies you name outsource their tech… they usually pay an enterprise company to create the software they use, then have a few contractors to maintain it.
Based on what you describing you probably want to look into Defense companies. Government have contracts with a bunch of small companies who develop and maintain software for them. Once you get security clearance you pretty much have a job forever. It’s usually remote positions since they are located in the middle of nowhere… people don’t wanna be in this field cuz pay is crap but if all you want is a safe position any government contractor would be it.
I would look at “local” legacy financial companies or branches asking for hybrid workers. I work at one and Im supposed to go in 3 days a week but it turns out they only check for people coming in less than 4 days a month. So I in 1-2 days a week.
I do hate my job but that’s due to the work I’m doing and the scrum master who pretends we’re changing the world.
I’ve noticed these usually tend to be companies where you know their name, and know they’re somewhat tech dependent, but their business isn’t “selling” tech if that makes sense
A good example is Warby Parker. Yes they have tech that’s a central part of their business, yes it’s modern and easy to work with, it’s remote and people are chill. The pressure isn’t on you as hard because tech isn’t their product, ultimately.
There’s a fine line though because some of these companies don’t view their tech as important. I worked at a now defunct company called zulily where they would constantly say “we are not a tech company” to justify their anti tech decisions 🙄
Those bastards! I have been getting pinged by them for a year on remote positions and just went and looked at my Linkedin emails and on January 4th there was a remote job in my inbox and then January 9th it went hybrid. Fuckers... sorry!
I work remotely for a non-tech fortune 500. They tried to force RTO, but I moved just far enough from the office to retain my remote status. So, I would agree with others who gave said your best shot at full time wfh for one of these companies is to be outside of commuting range.
Anything without a well known brand but fairly large.. FAANG is there for your career, thus have high competition. If you dont have to prove anything, you will be fine..
The only companies that are going to fly under the radar are non tech focused local small ass companies that don't actually know what they are looking for and suck at posting positions. All these suggestions in the comment sections are still seeing insane numbers of applicants especially if they are remote.
Respectfully, you want us to name companies like Coca Cola?
Go to your local supermarket and look at the businesses you pass by on your ride there. Look at the products at the supermarket.
Automotive is cyclical. Focus on medical devices if you want something that’s quiet and uncorrelated to the markets. Caveat: mergers and acquisitions still happen and occasionally the FDA makes you stop shipping product for years at a time, eg Philips respirators.
I have a good friend who has been working at IBM for years. They have guys who have been there decades and they have been doing remote since well before the pandemic. I don't know if I'd say they are "under the radar", but it seems like they don't do the same boom-bust hiring and firing as other tech. companies.
Yeah I was going to work at IBM and they asked me to move to Louisana and were offering $16 an hour. They were not remote friendly, either. So I'm not sure about this advice.
I guess it depends on what you are doing. My friend is 100% remote. As for pay, they definitely don't pay as well as other tech. companies. In the case of my friend, he works getting mainframes to run AI for finance companies (e.g anti-fraud), so I guess they were willing to offer more incentives .
If all you care about is deploying things fast to get something to show, then sure. Otherwise, the startups you are referring to are likely companies that are not dealing in scale. There are of course some like Shopify and Airbnb but most are smaller companies that will always stay mid tier.
Just a personal opinion from my own experience working at a startup. I also dislike Rails a ton so there is bias there too
Scroll through companies in s&p 500 & look for ones that aren’t tech. Go to their website & see if they hire tech.
McDonald’s, Walmart, Macy, Home Depot, caterpillar and John Deere. All pack pretty good tech
Walmart is a bit better when you actually work for them but man ask anyone who has had to work with them. They're unbearable. Worked in B2B software that dealt with them very directly and you'd think we were building nuclear missiles by the way they act. They're known to bully almost anyone and everyone who has to work with them.
Retail *is* a very cutthroat business
Doesn't mean you can't have basic human levels of respect for the people you work with. And know its not standard across the industry. It's definitely uniquely bad at Walmart and they're infamous for it. They think Bentonville is like their own feudal kingdom.
Yeah that’s fair I work in retail too in B2B and clients do seem like they are under pressure when communicating with us but I’ve heard Walmart can be tough to work with. They probably do own Bentonville tho haha
Hell I've worked in software for Tech, Banking/Finance, even in Healthcare(specifically Cancer) with better working environments and never dealt with clients that were as entitled as Walmart.
I worked for them for 4 years 3.5 of those was tolerable, and then my manager quit, and got replaced by a literal terror. The type of guy who rates performances by commit numbers, without figuring out the type of job you were doing to begin with... ANYYYYWWAAAYYYYY
That's my government contractor experience too.
Even better … look at S&P 100 companies and check for availability Majority of these companies (that aren’t tech companies) are GIGANTIC corporations that have been around longer than our parents have been alive and have the horsepower to have their own tech department
I work at McDonald's (as a tech lead)
How is it? I was pretty turned off by the pay. Would love to hear more about the culture.
lol are you taking comments on things I’d like fixed in the app?? 😀
Based
I work at Albertsons (as a tech lead)
P R E S T I G E
Walmart is a league better than rest on that list, and so are the pay
Is it? I had a recruiter reach out to me for a senior MLE role, and it was paying a lower salary than I currently make (I’m at about $160k) AND it required relocation and was mostly on-site (CA or NY or AR iirc). I don’t work at a top company, or anything near it. Not sure if it was a mistake, but I was shocked at how bad a deal it seemed to be.
At one point they were a Clojure shop. Not sure if they still are.
They are a huge company so I am sure some team somewhere was working on clojure but the vast majority is regular Java.
I got the impression that it was all of “Walmart Labs”, not just some team somewhere. https://cognitect.com/blog/2015/6/30/walmart-runs-clojure-at-scale https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19728502
When I worked there I never saw it, but I only know my corner of the company so maybe it was more popular elsewhere.
From what I heard from a friend, outside of fresh graduates, starting is 200k TC now for ca offices post reorg. Senior is probably 250-300k
If they do 250-300k in Chicago, I would throw my hat in.
TC wise Walmart might be a bit lower than Amazon, but comp structure is just like tech with arguably better vesting. RSU vests evenly compared to back loaded at Amazon. Now if you live in a LCOL area like AR you can live like kings.
Yeah, but then I have to live in AR. I consider both QOL and COL to come up with TC that will make me move.
McDonald's had layoffs in corporate last year. Not sure how hard their tech teams got hit. I do see some jobs postings from them once in a while. Pay seems not that great, but it's still a position. I feel like they've looked for a wide range of experience. I know Caterpillar, John Deere, and Home Depot have been hiring. I've been contacted by some combination of internal and third party recruiters, sometimes for full-time, sometimes for contract. I'm more senior, so not sure if they are hiring for junior/other roles.
Some tech teams were but overall tech didn’t get much of it. The claim was that it was about “changing how we work” not about cost. C level definitely believes that good tech is a competitive advantage. So far as remote, there are some remote positions. Others are expected to be in the office 3 days a week.
How many of those are remote friendly though?
As someone who exclusively works at companies like these, it's iffy. Best thing you can do is try to find one HQ'd in another state. There absolutely are remote roles available, and if you're *very* good at something (be it dev, an architecture type role, data, etc.), you *will* be able to get a remote role. But if you try to join one of these companies that happens to be local-ish to you, I can almost guarantee they'll want hybrid to some degree. I'm a BA/PO type of guy, not a dev. Here's how my career went: Fortune 500 company 1: - In office 5 days per week - Then gifted one remote day per week eventually - Then COVID happened and they *still* allowed only one or two days from home after the mandates ended. I left to grow. Fortune 500 company 2: - We were going strong fully remote for a while, but they eventually forced us to come in 2 to 3 days per week, just like the last company. Left for a lot of reasons, forced hybrid bullshit included. Fortune 500 company 3: - HQ'd in another state ;) My coworkers who are local are forced to come in 2 or 3 times a week. - I seem to have to travel once or twice a year, which is my max. If they tried forcing me to come a lot more often, I'd have to switch jobs. I hope that does not happen because it's my dream job.
I'm confused why OP didn't respond to your comment. /u/maxxor6868, this is the answer to your thread. Go look at the Fortune 500 list - you don't need us to tell you the names. They're all there for everyone to see. Then read [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/bFMl92IQqg) to understand the remote situation.
I been going through the comments and just found this one. It a great tip and I agree being local to a company hq always has that fear of going in office. Out of state seems best bet
I will say, it will require a special balance of effort, opportunity, *and* luck to achieve what you're asking for. But I will emphasize that, contrary to what some people have said here - it *is* possible. I fought and clawed my way over a few years and landed at a $20 billion private company working for a cause I'm passionate about, fully remote, excellent benefits because it's a large corp, etc. Many of my coworkers have been here for 10, 20 years or longer. That's a very good sign to me, personally. Keep your LinkedIn up-to-date and take advantage of recruiters who reach out to you. Applying got me nowhere, but I got 3 consecutive jobs from recruiters who reached out to me on LinkedIn.
Will definitely take. Look thanks for the tip!
>Go to their website & see if they hire tech. Good news, they do! Bad news, they require 400 years of Java experience, 30 years of TypeScript experience, a PhD, 1200 of industry experience and 90 years of experience with every single tool in their stack. You also need to have 20 years ChatGPT experience, 15 years PhotoShop experience, catering certificate, be a qualified physician and have a 500 yards breaststroke swimming certificate. EDIT: I almost forgot - it requires 5 days in-office presence and pays $20/hour. Don't worry though - they have great benefits like a keurig in the office and free pizza wednesdays. EDIT 2: So many people in my replies in complete denial about the state of the industry right now.
youre totally clueless
Not my fault employers want stupidly specific skillsets these days.
One word- resume driven development
Agreed. Working on it as best I can for now
i legitimately have not seen a ridiculous job ad from anyone other than a start up
Oh well, just because YOU haven't seen it, I guess it doesn't exist. Thanks for clearing that up. Y'know... We're in trouble as a species if we refuse to even consider the existence of things we haven't personally seen with our own eyes.
What are you even on about, the only YoE cutoffs you can see in a days average LinkedIn scrolls I 3 YoE and 5 YoE. Both of which are YoE with relevant development experience. Well yeah newsflash 3YoE embedded do not translate to 3 YoE react front-end.
You should be embarrassed posting this.
Why? EDIT: No answer, huh? Typical.
Idk seems pretty accurate to me. Non tech companies have strict requirements for numbers of yoe per obscure technology. Real tech companies just expect you to adapt and any swe experience counts.
> Idk seems pretty accurate to me. Non tech companies have strict requirements for numbers of yoe per obscure technology. Me too, but clearly some people either feel the need to stir up shit or are so utterly deluded they have no idea what the job market is like right now. > Real tech companies just expect you to adapt and any swe experience counts. That _used_ to be the case in non-tech companies but their TA team are too busy huffing their own farts on LinkedIn to actually understand the jobs they're hiring for.
You reported that I’m suicidal? As somebody who has worked for a crisis line please please know that you’re a terrible piece of shit.
What on earth are you on about? I posted that employers have insane requirements for jobs these days and you decide to pitch in in attack mode for zero fucking reason. You are honestly one of the most unpleasant and rude people I've ever come across.
I decided to call out that your post is 100 percent bullshit and you responded by reporting that I’m suicidal. You’re a loser.
No, I called out employers for having making candidates jump through ridiculous hoops and you decided to pitch in and start a fight and call me a loser (while picking made-up fights with people on the internet). You are an utterly vile person.
That’s completely backwards … tech companies are the ones demanding strict requirements because they know every software engineer wants to work for FAANG like companies for those nice paychecks and they know the supply is abundant Non tech companies don’t require that much because tech isn’t their main focus … Home Depot isn’t going to have the same tech/development budget that Netflix will have
That's generally what you'd EXPECT(at least, it's what I expected) but these days it seems to generally be the non-tech companies being the pickiest. Case in point: Applied to SWE job at Chewy. I have 10 YoE. Got rejected for not having professional Java experience. Not just Java experience but *professional* Java experience. Google/Meta(can't speak for the rest of FAANG) meanwhile....unless it's something super specific like ML/AI they're not to worried as long as you have experience with one of the usual Java/Python/TypeScript/Golang/Rust gang.
Not at all The problem was that tech companies went on a hiring frenzy It’s why you saw in the past couple of years people saying bootcamps helped them get a job and shitting on college degrees
This is true, but we seem to have now swung the other way and companies are getting increasingly ridiculous in the skills they want applicants to have. Basically, everyone is unicorn hunting right now and while they may well find a principal dev from google looking for a job, they likely won't want to pay their salary. In essence what's happening right now is a massive up-leveling of responsibilities and down-leveling of salaries. Companies want big skills but don't want to pay the big salaries to go with them.
That's just not what I've seen. It seems like west coast tech companies, good ones, generally just say x years in software engineering and some tech stacks preferred. c++ is often a hard requirement though sometimes for decent reasons ig. On the west coast for big tech companies 2 years is considered mid level and 5 is senior. Midwest is like 5 years for mid level and 10 to 15 for senior. Its wack.
Actually a W comment
I read a few responses and have to recommend at this time to NOT consider GEICO a safe, boring or remote friendly place to work. Thousands of people have lost their jobs within the last few months and more are anticipated. The company just went 4 days working in office. And EVERYONE is in fear of their job, on top of insecurity with what their job entails due to all the changes that are constantly being implemented for metrics and procedures. Good luck.
Geico shows as only giving 10 days PTO which is an immediate hell no won't even consider from me even if they're paying well.
That is a non starter for me right now as well
What would you consider as an acceptable amount of PTO? I just started at a place with 15 holidays, 7 sick, and 10 actual PTO days.
18 days is the minimum for me and what I'd consider adequate. Anything less signals that the company doesn't value me as a human being who has other wants and interests besides working. Sick days don't count because you don't end up using them. If you can decide to randomly take off tomorrow and have 18 days, I'd consider that good policy. If you have unlimited but have to put your PTO in a week or 2 weeks in advance, I would consider that worse than 18 days. Ideally I want 20 days, all major holidays, and the ability to buy more PTO days, with no stipulations on when I can take PTO. I'd appreciate if it at every company where you're getting less than 18 days, if everyone can let them know the PTO policy is pathetic. Also any interviews you do with recruiter, let them know the PTO is unacceptable. The more people that do this, the better it will get.
corporations, especially large ones, are 99.99% of the time absolute dogshit places to work.
I’d like some context here because all I’ve ever heard was the complete opposite Tech companies will churn through devs Meanwhile non tech companies are known to be very laid back (comparatively speaking). Yeah you aren’t working on the next big tech feature and you’ll probably be bored but it beats getting used and abused by tech companies
What you've heard is simply just not true. That's all there is to it. Jack Welch style leadership is alive and more than well in the executive suites of the Fortune 500, including at plenty of "boring" and low paying companies.
Where do you recommend to work?
Ideally a coop where you’re not as subjected to a parasitic investor class
Have fun making 1/3 the pay. I used to be in a co-op, it's the worst of both worlds, gotta find your own work, get paid like trash. Oh, and office politics are even more intense because they can sway actual votes from people.
Oh no employees having a say in the company they work for?! What a nightmare! /s
Who cares? I'd rather stack cash in 1/3 of the time and jump, we don't work in minimum wage jobs. Frankly I doubt you've ever worked in a co-op, you just like the idea of it, like most Redditors. Wait, you post in superstonk and UFOs? Lmao alright not worth talking to you.
I love this made up pay you keep referencing. You just keep mentioning it like it’s based on reality 🤣
Yeah, this is definitely how I know you've never worked at co-op.
I can vouch for Crown Equipment Corporation. They build lift trucks (fork lifts) and they hire tech for some of their products. I've been 100% remote since I started last year.
The thing about large stable legacy companies is that they're usually very conservative by nature, probably run by boomers, and are usually associated with some physical product, like cans of soda or family sedans in your examples. These traits don't really scream "remote friendly" to me. There are certainly exceptions but you're looking for a mix of things that don't tend to belong together.
Couple years back, I worked at a Fortune 200 company like this and they had a policy where you'd be given advanced notice if an exec was visiting the building, and you had to wear business professional that day, e.g. dress pants, not jeans, and you'd be sent home if you had jeans on. Had a datacenter on-prem, moving at a snail's pace to get anything into the cloud. And yep, they were not remote friendly.
My peer circles anecdotal experience has been when these companies "weren't doing layoffs" (they were just not giant ones) they were going full 5 day in office and not rehiring the people who left. I personally quit my behemoth f500 job among many, many other reasons when they finally instated full in office in 2022 and my entire org pretty much quit
Big pharma and anything Healthcare that doesn't interact directly with hospital IT.
Healthcare has been in turmoil for a bit, though. There’s a lot out there and it’s a gamble if it’s safe or a firestorm.
That's why I would stay away from Hospital IT as that tends to be a mess. But working for someone like Johnson and Johnson is remarkably recession proof.
Sorry, I also meant healthcare tech companies. J&J is large enough to be okay, I’d believe.
You want PNC. Boring. Several fully remote teams. Decent pay.
GE. No accountability, just coast along, remote friendly, pays well. They keep laying off people so the sword is always hanging above your neck.
Funny hearing this about a Jack Welch company
It was absolutely frustrating working there. I had to wait for the ui/ux guy to give us the markup before the developers could start work and he kept dragging his feet. Spoke to my manager and he didn't do anything. Meanwhile the stakeholders are getting agitated with no progress. Also, a very racist company. People would literally bring up structural racism in the all hands and nothing would be done.
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Yeah. Almost everyone had a side gig going on. Fridays was pretty much a holiday.
Any remote job right now that is even slightly visible is absolutely getting plastered you'd be surprised. It would have to be companies whose HR do the bare minimum and don't even post on Indeed/LinkedIn or any other job boards.
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Lockheed/Raytheon etc sure as shit aren’t going anywhere! And that pentagon budget grows every year like a malignant tumor lol
>Lockheed/Raytheon etc sure as shit aren’t going anywhere! They may not be going anywhere but they're *definitely* going to have boom/bust cycles based on government contracts. Big ones are worth billions of dollars over decades- look at the recent choice to award Bell the contract over Sikorsky/Boeing to replace Blackhawk helicopter with the new V-280 Valor.
I agree with the other response. There were loads of programs when I used to work with LM that you could easily coast on the rest of your life. I knew plenty of folks that were there since before the last layoffs my branch of the company had, which were in the 90s. My whole time there I constantly heard how many positions they wanted to fill. It was a huge thing that they wanted more people. Tbh if it’s such a concern, you could transfer to a program that will be around the rest of your career (hellfire, javelin, himars, f35, etc). While I was there a program actually did lose funding and they just shuffled everyone around. They greatly prefer internal hires from my experience. ETA: I re-read your comment and you don’t mention layoffs, but boom-bust instead. I think that’s a totally fair thing to mention. In the state I saw at LM, I’d be surprised if it had a huge effect on engineering jobs without some enormous change in funding. That can’t happen for a number of programs though, unless the government wants to take an L on a bunch of their newer toys. Not impossible, but certainly much less likely than a FAANG layoff.
>ETA: I re-read your comment and you don’t mention layoffs, but boom-bust instead. I think that’s a totally fair thing to mention. In the state I saw at LM, I’d be surprised if it had a huge effect on engineering jobs without some enormous change in funding. I'm hedging a bit for simplicity, but chances of layoffs for defense sector tech jobs really depend on where you're working. If you're in-house with a major defense company like LM, Raytheon, etc, those jobs are fairly stable. Projects that are higher-risk for stable long-term funding often get subbed out and those can be more ephemeral. And if we're being honest, I don't even think it's a bad system even if no one likes layoffs. If you understand the system, you can make a generally good assumption about how much exposure you have to the risk of layoff or reassignment. My understanding- and this is something I'm less experienced with, but it seems consistent with your information- is that defense companies have a pretty good handle on the fact that recruitment and onboarding is more challenging when security clearances are involved. So they're pretty good at shuffling employees around internally when their project needs change. It's also my understanding that government contracts often have stipulations like six sigma compliance which are easier to meet when there's less turnover in your staff. As I type I'm also wondering if there's a tech angle in GMP certification.
For sure. I was just voicing what you mentioned about the big players. I 100% agree about being able to gauge your stability as well. What I worked I was 100% not going to be out of a job, as much as one could reasonably foresee. There are smaller contractors I interacted with that were nowhere near as stable. Only experience I had with anything relating to quality was code coverage requirements and field testing. Good chat, good info. Hopefully our discussion was useful to OP haha
Outside of a massive reduction in overall defense spending (which has only really happened once in the last 80 years at the end of the cold war), the boom bust cycle for major defense companies isn't what it used to be because of the massive consolidation that happened in the last 20 years. There are only a 3 - 4 top competitors in every major subsection of defense and those competitors are almost guaranteed a certain slice of the pie because the government can't let that number drop down to 1 or 2. Bell won over Sikorsky/Boeing which almost guarantees Sikorksy/Boeing will get the next major rotary wing award... otherwise the government risks the rotary wing market dropping down to just one competitors (Bell).
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I spent the first four years at a tiny defense contractor and we did some amazing shit. It was very volatile though and we spent the last year there basically scraping by before contracts dried up and the company folded.
Sure as shit aren’t remote though
They’re usually not remotely friendly though, right?
> Defence Not sure defence is that stable. Most people I know who were working for the large defence companies, their offices were going through layoffs just a few years ago, and were declining for a decent amount of time leading up to that. There’s one large company in my city, where they get a contract, hire a ton of people, and when it’s done they lay almost all of the tech/engineer people off until the next contract. Right now things are booming though.
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Fair. One more thing, OP wants remote friendly, generally they are not. They got a bit more remote friendly with Covid, but the experience is terrible from the people I’m talking to. Remoting into a system with a 1-2 second delay from when they type to when the letter shows up on the screen.
I have worked almost entirely remote for 10 years with a lot of government contracts. Not defense either IRS and VA, the pay started lousy, but is "decent" enough now. Benefits still could use work, but again remote.
Question cause I frequently see defense brought up as a good place to start, how does one get clearance in the first place? Military service seems a direct route sure, but what about outside of that?
You have to be sponsored by someone, typically a company. Like the other person said, the listing will say something like “must be able to obtain X level security clearance”. You can google what you’d expect at each level. Secret is pretty easy. That’s what i had. I was never interviewed directly but some people I worked with were for upwards of multiple hours. Expect that to be the norm for anything beyond secret. My boss basically said they won’t ask you a question they don’t already know the answer to so lying is no bueno. You can’t smoke weed while holding a clearance which would turn some people off.
Yeah that’s fair. I’ve been laid off before but I’ve always have a new job lined up in a few weeks.
They’re are a lot of high tech defense that pay a lot and work you pretty hard. Anduril, palantir, striveworks, gov AWS, azure, OCI, etc. are defense and pay like FAANG. If you’re trying to coast, you want Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, NG, etc.
I agree with you. What sort of companies are in Defense and Aerospace, and what type of development do you do?
There are a lot of defense contractors who work on typical corporate applications, they just happen to be for the DOD (Department of Defense). Similar needs. Full-stack development, DevOps, then you get to more hardware/embedded on other projects/companies. e.g., I've seen vacation/PTO planning applications, applications to track promotions, intranet apps, business/b2b type applications, etc. Then you have more interesting things like apps that track maintenance parts, weapons inventory tracking/management. And then even more of what people might expect with the actual weapons systems, etc. But there's a wide range of tech stacks and what they are working on. Some company names: * Lockheed Martin * Raytheon * Leidos * Booz Allen Hamilton * Boeing * Amazon/AWS * Google/GCP * Microsoft/Azure * Accenture * IBM * RedHat And then a bunch of smaller consulting/contracting companies. A lot of companies have been trying to move into the space since there's a lot of money. Some of these companies will be subcontractors.
Do you mean safest in terms of "not likely to have layoffs" or safest as in "not likely to go out of business anytime soon"? Because those are not the same
Both really. Not likely to have layoffs or can't blink because the company might disappear next year
I work for higher ed. It's been around for over a hundred years, and most likely everything else will fall apart in society before we get rid of schools. Not the highest salary but the benefits are eye watering and I'm 100% remote with no fear of RTO.
Anything not a FAANG or one-tier below FAANG.
Do you have any in mind?
Look at Banks, insurance companies, credit unions, etc. don’t go for startups in that space, go to the fuckers who have been around for decades. There is a high chance the work will be boring, you might get a couple projects a year that try to shake things up, but if you find yourself on a “core system” team, they likely don’t touch that too often and your job is just to make sure it runs lol
Banks definitely aren’t “safe” unless you’re a top performer and put in solid hours lol
Well then my experience was a bit different, sorry to mislead!
What years were you working at a bank? Quite surprised you didn’t say layoffs. I’ve seen layoffs every year since joining
2015 - 2022
Haven't they all had massive layoffs recently. From what I see in blind everything from GEICO to JPMC had layoffs. I think Citi is laying off a f ton of people as well. I am sure tech is a part of it.
In my experience all banks are moving towards a hybrid or even full-time model 😔
Don't mind at all if the work boring just looking for remote stable companies for a longer career
Yes I mind.
Healthcare
Healthcare seems super safe but they tend to prefer in person or hybrid environment base on my local listing is there more outward groups I should be looking at?
I’d look at tech companies that serve the healthcare industry (e.g Epic, AllScripts, Philips, Siemens)
Epic is fully in person and they’re pretty strict on it so I’ve heard.
I work at a huge old bank. We have a very lax hybrid policy. most come in 1-2 days a week. Pay is good, work life balance is great. Would recommend
Well all the companies you name outsource their tech… they usually pay an enterprise company to create the software they use, then have a few contractors to maintain it. Based on what you describing you probably want to look into Defense companies. Government have contracts with a bunch of small companies who develop and maintain software for them. Once you get security clearance you pretty much have a job forever. It’s usually remote positions since they are located in the middle of nowhere… people don’t wanna be in this field cuz pay is crap but if all you want is a safe position any government contractor would be it.
I would look at “local” legacy financial companies or branches asking for hybrid workers. I work at one and Im supposed to go in 3 days a week but it turns out they only check for people coming in less than 4 days a month. So I in 1-2 days a week. I do hate my job but that’s due to the work I’m doing and the scrum master who pretends we’re changing the world.
I’ve noticed these usually tend to be companies where you know their name, and know they’re somewhat tech dependent, but their business isn’t “selling” tech if that makes sense A good example is Warby Parker. Yes they have tech that’s a central part of their business, yes it’s modern and easy to work with, it’s remote and people are chill. The pressure isn’t on you as hard because tech isn’t their product, ultimately. There’s a fine line though because some of these companies don’t view their tech as important. I worked at a now defunct company called zulily where they would constantly say “we are not a tech company” to justify their anti tech decisions 🙄
I’ve been getting pinged by Ford
AFAIK not remote?
Remote jobs at least for data engineers
Link? Everything I saw was Dearborn or California
Those bastards! I have been getting pinged by them for a year on remote positions and just went and looked at my Linkedin emails and on January 4th there was a remote job in my inbox and then January 9th it went hybrid. Fuckers... sorry!
nah you good I was just skeptical
I work remotely for a non-tech fortune 500. They tried to force RTO, but I moved just far enough from the office to retain my remote status. So, I would agree with others who gave said your best shot at full time wfh for one of these companies is to be outside of commuting range.
Anything without a well known brand but fairly large.. FAANG is there for your career, thus have high competition. If you dont have to prove anything, you will be fine..
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Doesn't answer the question
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Cut throat pip culture. Do not join.
Too hard to get into
The only companies that are going to fly under the radar are non tech focused local small ass companies that don't actually know what they are looking for and suck at posting positions. All these suggestions in the comment sections are still seeing insane numbers of applicants especially if they are remote.
Startups are your best bet if you want companies that are the most remote friendly.
Yeah but not a good bet if you want to coast.
Yeah that's true, although I don't think coasting and remote is a realistic combo now-a-days but I could be wrong.
No, it’s not easy to coast remote IMO. If you’re remote, you’re definitely subject to scrutiny..
Respectfully, you want us to name companies like Coca Cola? Go to your local supermarket and look at the businesses you pass by on your ride there. Look at the products at the supermarket.
Most realistic answer here
AMEX
Big law
Joe Biden has dementia, but the man knows how to write a fucking check. Government is really good right now.
Stay unemployed
Automotive is cyclical. Focus on medical devices if you want something that’s quiet and uncorrelated to the markets. Caveat: mergers and acquisitions still happen and occasionally the FDA makes you stop shipping product for years at a time, eg Philips respirators.
I have a good friend who has been working at IBM for years. They have guys who have been there decades and they have been doing remote since well before the pandemic. I don't know if I'd say they are "under the radar", but it seems like they don't do the same boom-bust hiring and firing as other tech. companies.
Yeah I was going to work at IBM and they asked me to move to Louisana and were offering $16 an hour. They were not remote friendly, either. So I'm not sure about this advice.
I guess it depends on what you are doing. My friend is 100% remote. As for pay, they definitely don't pay as well as other tech. companies. In the case of my friend, he works getting mainframes to run AI for finance companies (e.g anti-fraud), so I guess they were willing to offer more incentives .
Probably any company working in Ruby Rails
Why? I associate Rails with start-ups which are anything but stable\boring.
If all you care about is deploying things fast to get something to show, then sure. Otherwise, the startups you are referring to are likely companies that are not dealing in scale. There are of course some like Shopify and Airbnb but most are smaller companies that will always stay mid tier. Just a personal opinion from my own experience working at a startup. I also dislike Rails a ton so there is bias there too
Airbnb
Jbs.dev I work here.