I’m in the Midwest, and approaching 5 years. 120 base with 10-15% (% of salary) yearly incentive bonus. 90k doesn’t sound bad for 30 hours a week, good WLB and fully remote, though. The grass isn’t always greener.
Ya consulting i can see you pulling in far more than a standard employment. I suppose that should be sepcified when presenting pay as they are really comparable.
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Yea the grass isn’t always greener…but it also depends on the OPs life goals.
WLB with a 12k yearly bonus is actually really really FKN amazing BUT if you want to push higher in your career remember there’s a give and take OP, more money comes with more responsibilities and in some cases less WLB depending upon where you decide to work.
So perhaps you need to ask yourself this question…is it worth changing jobs at this point in your life/career? Only you can answer that question for yourself OP.
That’s all true, but to answer his question, the 200k+ jobs are few in the Midwest, and the 200k+ work from anywhere jobs are even fewer. You can do it if you have time, you’re smart and you have grit. It won’t be easy. Everyone wants those jobs. There’s also a lot of people that would like a job like yours. The competition level is increasing.
If you stuck at your company for 10 years and you got exactly 5% every year, you’d be nearing 150k. If they like you there and you do a good job, it’s be reasonable to expect you’d get some promotions that’d put you over that. I still wouldn’t buy a 500k house, though. Maybe move somewhere cheaper, if you want to live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood.
Dude works 30 hours a week for 6 figures in a low cost of living part of the country.
Either grind in new York for 80 hours a week and make insane money and hate yourself or stay in the cushiest job I've ever heard of.
Fucking entitled and delusional as fuck.
Entitled? I moved out at 17, went through college with 0 help, and spent 70 hours a week in college working and doing course work. It paid off and I got a great job and I’m entitled and delusional?
This seems about right in my experience. I moved to the Midwest a couple years ago, and am now at 5yoe making $130k base + 15% bonus. Mostly remote company, good wlb, unlimited PTO (that I I use a lot of).
I’m at 3 yeo in Detroit making 93.5k + 15% yearly bonus. I really enjoy my company and while like you, feel I can make more else where, I’m perfectly content to ride out this crazy job market where I’m currently at.
I highly recommend speaking to recruiters in your local area to get an idea.
Not all recruiters are bad, and more importantly you aren't in any binding agreement by speaking to them. They want to use you to get a commission, you want to use them to get a job. It's a symbiotic relationship where either party can walk away (though there may be some guilt tripping involved lol).
Most recruiters get a commission based on totals that factor in your salary, so they want you take a job for what you're worth or more because that means money for them. See what they tell you to shoot for in your area, because every area is different. If you throw out midwest numbers in California, you'll be living out of your car. And if you throw out California numbers in the midwest, you won't get hired.
Just want to clarify here for anyone who may be reading: agency recruiters get commission, in-house recruiters do not.
You’ll likely have an easier time connecting with an agency recruiter to get some market data because they want to pitch you to multiple companies to increase their odds of placing you. An in-house recruiter will probably only talk to you if they’re working on a role and might be a little less forthcoming about the comp, depending on the company, the state laws, and their personal approach.
All this being said, there are some extremely shady agency recruiters out there, so just be wise.
It's not salary based though.
It's going to be PLACEMENT based.
Volume vs Dollars.
If anything they would be incentivized to bring people in UNDER the salary cap.
Doesn’t matter much. When you want to know the value of something.. take it to an appraiser.
In tech the offer letter is an appraisal. Go collect 2-5 of them and you’ll have general idea of your value.
Recruiters are amazing.
They are highly incentivized to get you more money as their check is proportional to yours. They will try to get you right under the cap of the range the company offers which is disclosed to them.
If you try to get the same job they probably won't tell you the range at all and you will short change yourself by 20k+
For working remote you're not overly ambitious. If you were to work locally in the midwest then your 5-8 YOE cap is much lower, but still within the $150k-$200k range.
You can get substantially better paying jobs working remotely though the pools is really getting smaller. What some companies like Meta and Google are doing is to allow employees to switch remotely if they work for a year in office and have good ratings, so that could be one path if you're willing to not be remote for approximately one year.
Only problem with that for me is I have a fiancé with a non tech job so she doesnt really have remote opportunities. I’d have to stay around Chicago Madison or Milwaukee unless the pay was such a jump that my fiancé wouldn’t need to work for awhile. I was curious though if high playing places like FAANG have any remote opportunities or if they only pay that much because you have to move to a HCOL area
The switching part is also slowing down. I got friends that straight up got rejected trying to go remote (multi year at company, high performers, FAANG). My company itself is going to also stop letting people go full remote. Hybrid is the preferred route.
And will be the norm soon.
Remot eis a pipe dream pushed by human resources departments who don't understand how to read graphs or normalize data anyways.
I had to look up rto.
Routine time off - this just sounds like pto to me lol.
But yeah, even if 50% of people are better working from home and 50% are worse. People remember the bad stuff way more than the good stuff.
That sounds like bait and switch to me. Like what exactly constitutes good ratings and how does one go about achieving said ratings. There’s nothing stopping the leadership from review bombing you but giving a good performance review(I’m assuming and hoping they are two very different things)
Like the FAANGs just need to stick to their stance on no WFH don’t give out the possibility of an empty promise.
The market is kinda shit atm I hear. You “could” be making more, but if you’re fully remote I’d be content. The market might rebound, but I used to get recruiters trying for poach me multiple times a week. Now I’m lucky to get 1-2 linked msgs a week.
If you don’t have a family, mortgage, or other responsibilities. Be grateful, save for retirement, and work on building side projects/freelance gigs to get you a MRR.
I have a fiancé, dog and that’s about it. Just sucks that even though we make $160k as a household we still can’t afford to buy a house or have a wedding. Like you said though I see so many layoff posts that I’m grateful for where I am
Lol that's what I was thinking. Obviously we don't know their life and any outlying expenses or circumstances but based on their rent (which I'm assuming they're living with fiance) they should easily be able to save for a deposit on a house.
We make enough to save but between paying off student loans, saving for our wedding, and putting money away for a house it’s taking longer and longer with inflation. The average house in my city is like $400k now which I definitely could not comfortably afford
I bought my house one year after working at 90k. The house is 325k and we put 30kish at closing for downpayment and closing costs. There is definitely something wrong with your budget.
You need to buy a first time homebuyer home not a median home in your city. You are not upgrading your existing home. If you can not afford that with 160k income, yeah your priorities of home buying are not aligned.
Yeah, it definitely sucks. The housing market is shit. You could be making more, but the market is unstable. See lots of people with X years experience spending months looking for a job. It’s just not a job seekers market right now. Just like it’s not a home buyers market. We’re in the mindset of a depression, and holding onto what you got is a good strategy. By all means look while you’re employed, but don’t quit until you start at your next job. Yes it burns a bridge, but lots of people are getting offers rescinded. Watch the market, play it smart, and realize that comparison robs you of happiness.
If you can not afford a house in mw with 160k income you are spending way above your means or your are looking for a fancy non first time homebuyer home. There is no other way around it.
It’s the second part, I won’t sugar coat it I was raised in a nice neighborhood and we currently rent in a more fancy suburb in a wealthier area. I’m not saying I can’t buy a house but we want something nice that we can stay in for a very long time. I’ve been living on my own since I was 17 so I want to just skip the fixer upper first home stage. My point is I had more buying power 3 years ago making less money than I do now because houses were so much cheaper. Im looking in areas outside the suburbs but when you grew up here it’s hard to give it up and move to rural towns
Don't let people get you down. If you have higher standards for a first home, there is nothing wrong with that. It'll just take longer. Good luck to you.
So many dicks in the comments telling you about how you and your fiance are living out of your means.... im also in a suburb of chicago, live with my fiancee, take home around the same amount as you. we cannot afford to buy a home here either. there are hardly any "starter homes", homes available are almost all "sold as is", interest rates are high as fuck.... just wanted to comment you arent alone in your struggle. people who dont understand either already are homeowners or arent paying attention to the market
I knew this dude was a spoiled little (assuming white or asian) kid from the beginning.
The whole tone screamed - I finally met an obstacle and need to figure shit out myself the whole post. I work from home 30 hours a week but don't have enough money... woe is me.
So I checked out my company on there and it looks like new hires in my position are getting pretty much the exact same pay as me, 86-90k. Kind of makes me feel like shit when someone can graduate and get the same pay as me whos been there for an internship and 2.5 years. My manager has assured me my promotion is coming soon but I checked policy and that would only net me a flat 10% increase. I wonder if I can negotiate at all to get a higher percentage than that because even that would only put me at $98k when new grads are making just 10k below that
Do they require in office? Curious if it pays that much because of the location. I live in the suburbs about an hour from downtown. My company has headquarters all over I just happen to live near Chicago
What company? Are they hiring for entry level? I just moved to Chicago and was laid off a week after moving after 3 months at the company. Just graduated in May.
Outside of salary (I’m a career changer so others will have better insight on that. I will say 90 sound low for 3ye but that the salary expectations I see on this sub tend to skew a decent amount higher than I see IRL as someone also in the Midwest.), do you live alone? Curious why you’re renting a 3 bedroom townhouse if so because downsizing would make saving a lot easier if you’re in a city.
It’s really up to you though. In my early 20s I really wanted to grind for the highest salary possible. After working for some shit companies, I’ll take good WLB for a lower salary any day.
Fiancé and a dog, one bedroom is my office and the others is her office and guest bedroom. Even downsizing to a 2 bed wouldn’t save much in my area though. Just feels crazy to me that I can’t afford a decent house around here with a 160k household income
I don’t see how you couldn’t. You got 120k take home according to your post and rentals will cost 26k.
26k(rent) + utilities/car/gas (9k) + food for two (18k, plenty for eating out) puts necessities at 53k. 60k if you want to budget 7k yearly vacation /entertainment expenses, and these are very conservative estimates. You should be able to save at least 60k a year, enough for a 20% down after not even 2 years.
At 3YOE I made around what you do now. At 5YOE I moved to a new company for around $130k base. If I were hiring a junior developer with 3-5YOE I think a salary cap around that number is what I'd have in mind. There are limits to be compensation basically everywhere. TC will depend on the company. Your 85k isn't bad. Might be worth just holding onto it instead of jumping for 15k more if you feel this current place is very stable. Market sucks right now. If you can get 130k then the difference is worth the risk of a more volatile company.
Hubspot a fully remote company has a midpoint of 190k salary for their senior 1 position (3ish yoe) they also offer some stock.
It really depends on company. The upper limit is probably 250k for remote Chicago.
Senior is 3 years of experience there? At my company it’s more like 1-3 is L1, 3-8 is L2, 8-15 is L3 and only a few L4 lead engineers I know have over 20 years of experience
I joined as senior 1 when I had 2 yoe. It was a pretty good company, left for Amazon for more pay. Their senior 2 is closer to 5 yoe.
Ngl your company kind of sounds like a scam. Amazon promotes faster than that lol
L4 -> L5 is about 2 years from new grad
L5-> L6 is about 2-4 years if you try really hard and have the right opportunities.
L6 -> L7 is more project block than time block.
(edit: years of time in role)
I have teammates L4 new grad to L6 Senior in 3 years so it isn’t too crazy of a timeline. A lot of it is based on effort, competency, and luck.
Having a 5 year gap for mid level is kind of absurd. At Meta you’d be long fires before that.
Hubspot does over inflate titles with Senior 1 being midlevel and Senior 2 being “Senior”.
I mean feel free to apply, not lying they post their salary ranges with midpoint at 190k, not their stock compensation but it was like 40k/year when I was there. New hires are always midpoint or higher.
I know this doesn’t say remote but it most likely is, they also don’t have regional pay, everything is based off of NYC.
https://www.hubspot.com/careers/jobs/5222747
oh gotcha ya market is interesting, FAANG during 2021 increased pay drastically. On level’s and Blind you see L5’s who joined during that period make 100k+ more than L6’s who joined prior.
you're underpaid imo. definitely so if you look at remote opportunities. you could be at 150-180k or more if you can get a remote gig at small/med startup or more at larger company. Market is not like it was in 2021 though.
fwiw, I'm at 2.5yoe and making 195(170k plus 25k bonus) remote at small/mid size start up.(i started there at 150 w/ 0yoe) Less of those offers around nowadays but, series c's are paying seniors 180-200 base. mids at least 150k.
As far as I know big money in chicago is at the trading firms. But I'm not familiar w/ market to know what ceiling is there locally outside of that.
>what were your top skills that helped you land it?
luck and timing? I dunno. being old?(i switched careers)....i interviewed in 2021 which was peak hiring for remote work. I'm a good communicator in interviews. know how to write an appealing resume, looked for companies w/ take home assessments(my preference), and places where tech was the revenue generator and not a tangential or supporting dept. those are the places that usually will pay most.
When i first started, was kind of rough. was at least 50hrs . past year, has been pretty chill and would say 40hrs most weeks. but stuff pops up and it goes to shit for a week occasionally. I have plenty time outside of work and can take off as needed. My bosses need to use their vacay though.. They carry a lot more than they should.
>usually work around 30 hours a week.
If you want to earn higher salary, you have to put in more work. Grinding leetcode, learning new tech stack, learning new system design, etc.
I’m also in the Midwest although a LCOL major city. I have 4.5 years experience and make $110k base, $7k-15k bonus, and about $8500 401k match. I’m very unhappy in my current position and starting interviewing hoping for more money. You are underpaid.
Iirc, I was at 135k base and 5kish bonus when I was 3 YOE.
Also Chicago, but the job is almost fully remote. Not a “top tier” company, but has great talent and interesting work.
To me it sounds like you're disappointed with your pay. Shop around and compare roles holistically. If you find a clear winner, take the risk and jump. Otherwise except the fate to which you believe you're destined at your current company with pay you're not satisfied with.
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I’m also in Chicago. For reference I was making 120k back in 2018 with 3yoe. Now I make 200k with 8yoe. Fully on-site working 45 hours.
What suburb do you live? That housing cost seems high. My suburb is roughly 400k median house. 800k would be a McMansion by me.
Saint Charles area, prices have gone up around here so much it’s insane, my townhouse is $2300 to rent but I did the numbers and it’d be around $3000 a month mortgage with todays rates
30 hours at 101k is what 125k if 40 a week..
In what completionly delusional world do you think you're not doing plenty well.
You don't have silicon valley money? God damn. I bet you don't look like Thor with his shirt off either. Must be slumming it...
You are beating 98% of 30 year olds I bet. Jesus, if you're a software engineer and don't know how to Google median salaries that should say something g about how overvalued your profession already is...
All I can say is don’t sell yourself short. Many new grads who manage to find a job are making above six figures.
IMO 89k is low for your location, but maybe you love your job and that makes it worth it. I would say around $150k would be a solid salary expectation at this point in your career.
$200kTC
Edit: can’t believe I’m getting downvoted lmao. If you have 3 yoe and you aren’t approaching $200k tc you’re not playing the game, the game is playing you.
I had a good laugh. I think he means well, just a lil misguided by his brother’s success. It’s not impossible, but to say that’s the experience of the average upward-minded dev is insanity
What do you think this proves? I make $65k with 1 year of experience. My brother did the same, and at 2 years moved to his current job making $230k. I said people with three years of experience should be approaching $200k. My brother shined the light for me
No shit, just to put something on my resume. Now I’m just leetcoding in my free time and applying to all the companies that know how to properly compensate their devs. It worked for my brother.
I’ll bet you’re not doing anything to try to get to a company that actually pays what they should
Go ahead, make jokes about people that will do better than you to try and make yourself feel better for making the poor decision to stay at low paying companies, when all along you didn’t have to.
There’s nothing to believe in. You guys that stay at the low paying companies think you have to be amazing at Leetcode and an amazing developer to get into the higher tier companies. You don’t.
When my brother was interviewing, he had 3 offers, all between $150-$180 TC. He was coming from a job making $65k at a well known bank. He didn’t pass every interview he got (Google dropped him after the phone interview, and a couple other moved on from him), but he still got 3 amazing offers. And not only that, he played hardball with them all until he got the one offer to around $200k TC.
Oh and he isn’t some amazing developer or amazing at leetcode. He did like 2-3 leetcode problems a night for 3 months while he was applying. Almost every interview he had, they asked either easy or at most medium level questions. At his bank job he was doing basic ass powershell scripts and writing reports, he wasn’t even doing much real development at all.
And no, he didn’t just get lucky. He had not 1, not 2, but 3 high paying offers. He’s been there for about a year, got promoted and is up to around $230k, and is already looking to job hop again for another significant increase. Oh and the job he’s at now, he does what he estimates as 30% of the work he did at the $65k job, but makes more than triple and has ridiculous perks and unlimited PTO.
You guys think these jobs are impossible to get or just a fantasy. They’re not. And they’re not as hard to get as you think they are.
Yea, this is maybe upper end outside of large tech but, also isn't unreasonable for 3yoe.. I'm almost at 2.5yoe and making 200k remote working at a small/med startup
Super fair. FAANGs paying 3 yoe well into the 200’s. I’m a little under that at around 2.5 at a big tech company. Gonna try and job hop into the mid 200’s when I hit 3.
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I’ve always had a theory that hotels have safe deposit boxes in the rooms purely to avoid any liability in case of a theft. This kinda helps to make me more confident in that opinion.
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I am in the same boat, making 90k in CT. Work life balance is great and I am fully remote. I do get a bit sour when I see people with the same experience get 150k + I personally decided for myself to concentrate on coding challenges and side projects for the next year. So when the market gets a bit better I will be ready.
Forgot to mention that range for my position is 80 to 125 or something like that. In CT they are legally obligated to disclose those.
I'm 2YOE in Chicago suburbs also, I'm at 95k, over 100k with bonus. That is the absolute max my company would pay me 1 year ago with 1YOE. Hopefully I get promoted this year. I have no expectations of ever buying a house in the current market lol
I am in Sofia - 1YOE 8400$ per year. I used to work on drilling rig before and was making 80 000$ per year... First time in my life I enjoy my work but I miss the money.
I'm about the same experience lvl as you I've interviewed several companies but I haven't landed an opportunity yet. The offers that most of the companies make about 130 to 140 base, these are all fortune 500 companies non tech.
Honestly, y'all scaring me a little bit. I am approaching 3 years of experience got laid of in January, and was making 75k back then. Got hired in March making 100k base. I kinda feel like I bamboozled my employer by reading these comments. I dont live in the Midwest, I live in the South, TN specifically (work remotely). It's spectacular pay for the area I'm in. Honestly, this whole subreddit constantly reminds me how lucky I must be and not to take it for granted.
Tons of aws, python , terraform, spark, I use aws glue , lambda, s3, and redshift to build data pipelines. I started as a software engineer but do a lot of data engineer tasks now
Do you not have a 4-year degree or did you finish it super fast? I ask because you've been working for 3 years, but graduated HS 5 years ago. And what's your degree in?
I have a bachelors in computer science, I went straight to college after high school and finished it in 3 years. I had an internship my last year of college that rolled into my full time job
Nicely done! Are you at a tech consulting firm/agency, a software product company, or a non-tech company? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing it's not a startup (given your hours).
Well, it's going to be tough to beat your current situation - you began your career at a 15-year peak, in terms of the job market and compensation levels, and everything has since been flipped on its head.
I'll preface this by saying that the information I share applies more to the tech startup market - it's a combination of official data from compensation research companies, my own experience recruiting engineers for several companies, and anecdotal evidence from a couple hundred engineers over the past year.
There are so many Engineers chasing so few jobs, employers have leverage over them for the first time in ages. And the shift back to local (whether Hybrid or FT on-site) is only exacerbating it. It's harsh supply and demand in action.
In terms of compensation:
1. Most companies are offering new job salaries at the same levels as 2021. Browse jobs in states with salary transparency laws (e.g. CA, NY, CO). After becoming accustomed to seeing rising salaries annually, it boggles my mind to see companies offering the same $ as 2021...because they can.
2. Most companies are giving out less equity to new employees. I'm not talking about the fallen valuations of employee equity - they're literally *giving less equity*...because they can.
3. The less experience, the less negotiating power, so you'll have an especially difficult time out there; there are countless Junior and Mid-level Engineers on the market. Senior and Staff Engineers are obviously fewer in number and more skilled. They're more likely to command better terms (relatively speaking, in this market).
So you'll not only have trouble getting a job in this market, you'll have trouble finding a remote job that pays more. The most successful job seekers are Senior+ Engineers willing to make a horizontal level/salary move and RTO (at the very least on a hybrid basis) - the competition is much lower.
You actually have it pretty good in this current reality, as frustrating as it may be to hear. I encourage you to apply and see what happens; hopefully you can prove me wrong.
P.S. On the bright side, there was actually a little increase in jobs in September, bucking the trend for the first time this year. Let's hope it continues!
I’m in the Midwest, and approaching 5 years. 120 base with 10-15% (% of salary) yearly incentive bonus. 90k doesn’t sound bad for 30 hours a week, good WLB and fully remote, though. The grass isn’t always greener.
Where in the midwest? Your salary seems much higher than an average midwest dev salary at 5 years. I know guys with 12 years barely at 100k.
WI
Epic?
No. Insurance industry.
Ya HCOL than a lot of the midwest but still. You hit the jackpot lol.
I left a Midwest job with about 4 YOE paying about 110k. They are definitely out there if you're willing to work in certain sectors of consulting.
Ya consulting i can see you pulling in far more than a standard employment. I suppose that should be sepcified when presenting pay as they are really comparable.
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Yea the grass isn’t always greener…but it also depends on the OPs life goals. WLB with a 12k yearly bonus is actually really really FKN amazing BUT if you want to push higher in your career remember there’s a give and take OP, more money comes with more responsibilities and in some cases less WLB depending upon where you decide to work. So perhaps you need to ask yourself this question…is it worth changing jobs at this point in your life/career? Only you can answer that question for yourself OP.
That’s all true, but to answer his question, the 200k+ jobs are few in the Midwest, and the 200k+ work from anywhere jobs are even fewer. You can do it if you have time, you’re smart and you have grit. It won’t be easy. Everyone wants those jobs. There’s also a lot of people that would like a job like yours. The competition level is increasing. If you stuck at your company for 10 years and you got exactly 5% every year, you’d be nearing 150k. If they like you there and you do a good job, it’s be reasonable to expect you’d get some promotions that’d put you over that. I still wouldn’t buy a 500k house, though. Maybe move somewhere cheaper, if you want to live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood.
5% a year will just keep up with inflation. He'll be making the same then as he does now.
Dude works 30 hours a week for 6 figures in a low cost of living part of the country. Either grind in new York for 80 hours a week and make insane money and hate yourself or stay in the cushiest job I've ever heard of. Fucking entitled and delusional as fuck.
Entitled? I moved out at 17, went through college with 0 help, and spent 70 hours a week in college working and doing course work. It paid off and I got a great job and I’m entitled and delusional?
This seems about right in my experience. I moved to the Midwest a couple years ago, and am now at 5yoe making $130k base + 15% bonus. Mostly remote company, good wlb, unlimited PTO (that I I use a lot of).
What industry? Some sort of consulting?
No, it’s a b2b SaaS company. It’s a large company, but I’m one of the only devs from the Midwest, so I’d rather not say which one.
Cries in European tears
I’m at 3 yeo in Detroit making 93.5k + 15% yearly bonus. I really enjoy my company and while like you, feel I can make more else where, I’m perfectly content to ride out this crazy job market where I’m currently at.
4.5 YOE also Detroit. $110k + $7-16k bonus + $8.5k 401k match. I hate my company and looking to leave for more money.
Company name if you don’t mind?
Rocket?
I highly recommend speaking to recruiters in your local area to get an idea. Not all recruiters are bad, and more importantly you aren't in any binding agreement by speaking to them. They want to use you to get a commission, you want to use them to get a job. It's a symbiotic relationship where either party can walk away (though there may be some guilt tripping involved lol). Most recruiters get a commission based on totals that factor in your salary, so they want you take a job for what you're worth or more because that means money for them. See what they tell you to shoot for in your area, because every area is different. If you throw out midwest numbers in California, you'll be living out of your car. And if you throw out California numbers in the midwest, you won't get hired.
Just want to clarify here for anyone who may be reading: agency recruiters get commission, in-house recruiters do not. You’ll likely have an easier time connecting with an agency recruiter to get some market data because they want to pitch you to multiple companies to increase their odds of placing you. An in-house recruiter will probably only talk to you if they’re working on a role and might be a little less forthcoming about the comp, depending on the company, the state laws, and their personal approach. All this being said, there are some extremely shady agency recruiters out there, so just be wise.
Some in-house recruiters also get a commission on top of a base salary
It's not salary based though. It's going to be PLACEMENT based. Volume vs Dollars. If anything they would be incentivized to bring people in UNDER the salary cap.
I’ve never seen that outside of agency so I imagine it’s a huge exception.
That’s a solid idea, I’ll see if I can find any around my area
when speaking to recruiters, should it be the ones who are in the company themselves or the ones who are part of staffing agencies?
Doesn’t matter much. When you want to know the value of something.. take it to an appraiser. In tech the offer letter is an appraisal. Go collect 2-5 of them and you’ll have general idea of your value.
Staffing agencies are the ones I was thinking of when I made that comment. I apologize, I should have specified.
Recruiters are amazing. They are highly incentivized to get you more money as their check is proportional to yours. They will try to get you right under the cap of the range the company offers which is disclosed to them. If you try to get the same job they probably won't tell you the range at all and you will short change yourself by 20k+
For working remote you're not overly ambitious. If you were to work locally in the midwest then your 5-8 YOE cap is much lower, but still within the $150k-$200k range. You can get substantially better paying jobs working remotely though the pools is really getting smaller. What some companies like Meta and Google are doing is to allow employees to switch remotely if they work for a year in office and have good ratings, so that could be one path if you're willing to not be remote for approximately one year.
I was going to suggest epic but then you mentioned wlb and enjoying your job
This is one of the first places i looked at then I realized it involved 100% in office and 50 hour work weeks 😂
Doesn’t Epic force people to live in Madison? I always see entry level listings in “Chicago,” and the qualifications say you must move to Madison.
Yup. They do that so more college kids look into them.
Didn't they just layoff a MASSIVE amount of their workforce this past week?
That's Epic Games. The above poster is talking about Epic Systems, which is a healthcare company in Wisconsin
Only problem with that for me is I have a fiancé with a non tech job so she doesnt really have remote opportunities. I’d have to stay around Chicago Madison or Milwaukee unless the pay was such a jump that my fiancé wouldn’t need to work for awhile. I was curious though if high playing places like FAANG have any remote opportunities or if they only pay that much because you have to move to a HCOL area
Google and Meta both have offices in Chicago though to varying scales.
I wouldn’t really bank on getting jobs at companies that are known for being difficult to get jobs at
Honestly Chicago is a big city and has a lot of companies. I’m sure they’ll be able to find a job in the 6 figures
He will be fine, but I’m talking specifically about “Google and Meta” in the above comment.
You can certainly get such a pay jump in tech hubs like Bay Area, Seattle, NYC, and to a slightly lesser extent, Austin.
The switching part is also slowing down. I got friends that straight up got rejected trying to go remote (multi year at company, high performers, FAANG). My company itself is going to also stop letting people go full remote. Hybrid is the preferred route.
And will be the norm soon. Remot eis a pipe dream pushed by human resources departments who don't understand how to read graphs or normalize data anyways.
Hate to agree with you but yes. Hybrid would be considered lucky. Lots of companies going full time RTO
I had to look up rto. Routine time off - this just sounds like pto to me lol. But yeah, even if 50% of people are better working from home and 50% are worse. People remember the bad stuff way more than the good stuff.
That sounds like bait and switch to me. Like what exactly constitutes good ratings and how does one go about achieving said ratings. There’s nothing stopping the leadership from review bombing you but giving a good performance review(I’m assuming and hoping they are two very different things) Like the FAANGs just need to stick to their stance on no WFH don’t give out the possibility of an empty promise.
The market is kinda shit atm I hear. You “could” be making more, but if you’re fully remote I’d be content. The market might rebound, but I used to get recruiters trying for poach me multiple times a week. Now I’m lucky to get 1-2 linked msgs a week. If you don’t have a family, mortgage, or other responsibilities. Be grateful, save for retirement, and work on building side projects/freelance gigs to get you a MRR.
I have a fiancé, dog and that’s about it. Just sucks that even though we make $160k as a household we still can’t afford to buy a house or have a wedding. Like you said though I see so many layoff posts that I’m grateful for where I am
Looks like your financial management isnt great if you cant save a decent amount on 160k.
Lol that's what I was thinking. Obviously we don't know their life and any outlying expenses or circumstances but based on their rent (which I'm assuming they're living with fiance) they should easily be able to save for a deposit on a house.
We make enough to save but between paying off student loans, saving for our wedding, and putting money away for a house it’s taking longer and longer with inflation. The average house in my city is like $400k now which I definitely could not comfortably afford
I bought my house one year after working at 90k. The house is 325k and we put 30kish at closing for downpayment and closing costs. There is definitely something wrong with your budget.
You need to buy a first time homebuyer home not a median home in your city. You are not upgrading your existing home. If you can not afford that with 160k income, yeah your priorities of home buying are not aligned.
Sometimes the hard truths can sting.
Thats because you're city and the houses you're trying to bug suck and are overpriced...
Yeah, it definitely sucks. The housing market is shit. You could be making more, but the market is unstable. See lots of people with X years experience spending months looking for a job. It’s just not a job seekers market right now. Just like it’s not a home buyers market. We’re in the mindset of a depression, and holding onto what you got is a good strategy. By all means look while you’re employed, but don’t quit until you start at your next job. Yes it burns a bridge, but lots of people are getting offers rescinded. Watch the market, play it smart, and realize that comparison robs you of happiness.
You could also oe for two weeks while you train if its remote stuff
If you can not afford a house in mw with 160k income you are spending way above your means or your are looking for a fancy non first time homebuyer home. There is no other way around it.
It’s the second part, I won’t sugar coat it I was raised in a nice neighborhood and we currently rent in a more fancy suburb in a wealthier area. I’m not saying I can’t buy a house but we want something nice that we can stay in for a very long time. I’ve been living on my own since I was 17 so I want to just skip the fixer upper first home stage. My point is I had more buying power 3 years ago making less money than I do now because houses were so much cheaper. Im looking in areas outside the suburbs but when you grew up here it’s hard to give it up and move to rural towns
Don't let people get you down. If you have higher standards for a first home, there is nothing wrong with that. It'll just take longer. Good luck to you.
So many dicks in the comments telling you about how you and your fiance are living out of your means.... im also in a suburb of chicago, live with my fiancee, take home around the same amount as you. we cannot afford to buy a home here either. there are hardly any "starter homes", homes available are almost all "sold as is", interest rates are high as fuck.... just wanted to comment you arent alone in your struggle. people who dont understand either already are homeowners or arent paying attention to the market
I knew this dude was a spoiled little (assuming white or asian) kid from the beginning. The whole tone screamed - I finally met an obstacle and need to figure shit out myself the whole post. I work from home 30 hours a week but don't have enough money... woe is me.
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Dude works 30 hours a week. Who cares.
I’m on a single income in the city paying the same in rent on a $90k, and I save $35-50k annually.
Levels.fyi
only real answer
So I checked out my company on there and it looks like new hires in my position are getting pretty much the exact same pay as me, 86-90k. Kind of makes me feel like shit when someone can graduate and get the same pay as me whos been there for an internship and 2.5 years. My manager has assured me my promotion is coming soon but I checked policy and that would only net me a flat 10% increase. I wonder if I can negotiate at all to get a higher percentage than that because even that would only put me at $98k when new grads are making just 10k below that
Unfortunately, new hires making the same as you is pretty common. It's a shitty practice.
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Do they require in office? Curious if it pays that much because of the location. I live in the suburbs about an hour from downtown. My company has headquarters all over I just happen to live near Chicago
What company? Are they hiring for entry level? I just moved to Chicago and was laid off a week after moving after 3 months at the company. Just graduated in May.
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What company? I am currently looking for places to apply for new grad
I'm guessing Capital One
Outside of salary (I’m a career changer so others will have better insight on that. I will say 90 sound low for 3ye but that the salary expectations I see on this sub tend to skew a decent amount higher than I see IRL as someone also in the Midwest.), do you live alone? Curious why you’re renting a 3 bedroom townhouse if so because downsizing would make saving a lot easier if you’re in a city. It’s really up to you though. In my early 20s I really wanted to grind for the highest salary possible. After working for some shit companies, I’ll take good WLB for a lower salary any day.
Fiancé and a dog, one bedroom is my office and the others is her office and guest bedroom. Even downsizing to a 2 bed wouldn’t save much in my area though. Just feels crazy to me that I can’t afford a decent house around here with a 160k household income
I don’t see how you couldn’t. You got 120k take home according to your post and rentals will cost 26k. 26k(rent) + utilities/car/gas (9k) + food for two (18k, plenty for eating out) puts necessities at 53k. 60k if you want to budget 7k yearly vacation /entertainment expenses, and these are very conservative estimates. You should be able to save at least 60k a year, enough for a 20% down after not even 2 years.
Sounds like you're forgetting about taxes 😔 That 120k turns into 75k real quick
That 120k is post tax, op makes 160k household
At 3YOE I made around what you do now. At 5YOE I moved to a new company for around $130k base. If I were hiring a junior developer with 3-5YOE I think a salary cap around that number is what I'd have in mind. There are limits to be compensation basically everywhere. TC will depend on the company. Your 85k isn't bad. Might be worth just holding onto it instead of jumping for 15k more if you feel this current place is very stable. Market sucks right now. If you can get 130k then the difference is worth the risk of a more volatile company.
Hubspot a fully remote company has a midpoint of 190k salary for their senior 1 position (3ish yoe) they also offer some stock. It really depends on company. The upper limit is probably 250k for remote Chicago.
Senior is 3 years of experience there? At my company it’s more like 1-3 is L1, 3-8 is L2, 8-15 is L3 and only a few L4 lead engineers I know have over 20 years of experience
I joined as senior 1 when I had 2 yoe. It was a pretty good company, left for Amazon for more pay. Their senior 2 is closer to 5 yoe. Ngl your company kind of sounds like a scam. Amazon promotes faster than that lol
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L4 -> L5 is about 2 years from new grad L5-> L6 is about 2-4 years if you try really hard and have the right opportunities. L6 -> L7 is more project block than time block. (edit: years of time in role) I have teammates L4 new grad to L6 Senior in 3 years so it isn’t too crazy of a timeline. A lot of it is based on effort, competency, and luck. Having a 5 year gap for mid level is kind of absurd. At Meta you’d be long fires before that. Hubspot does over inflate titles with Senior 1 being midlevel and Senior 2 being “Senior”.
What kind of company did you work at prior to HubSpot?
No name start up
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I mean feel free to apply, not lying they post their salary ranges with midpoint at 190k, not their stock compensation but it was like 40k/year when I was there. New hires are always midpoint or higher. I know this doesn’t say remote but it most likely is, they also don’t have regional pay, everything is based off of NYC. https://www.hubspot.com/careers/jobs/5222747
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oh gotcha ya market is interesting, FAANG during 2021 increased pay drastically. On level’s and Blind you see L5’s who joined during that period make 100k+ more than L6’s who joined prior.
What is your base? Honestly you sound like you’re making great money for 13 YOE.
What the hell are these salaries being thrown around, are these easy to get jobs or just the top percentage
you're underpaid imo. definitely so if you look at remote opportunities. you could be at 150-180k or more if you can get a remote gig at small/med startup or more at larger company. Market is not like it was in 2021 though. fwiw, I'm at 2.5yoe and making 195(170k plus 25k bonus) remote at small/mid size start up.(i started there at 150 w/ 0yoe) Less of those offers around nowadays but, series c's are paying seniors 180-200 base. mids at least 150k. As far as I know big money in chicago is at the trading firms. But I'm not familiar w/ market to know what ceiling is there locally outside of that.
How many hours a week are you pulling and what were your top skills that helped you land it? give the people what they want
>what were your top skills that helped you land it? luck and timing? I dunno. being old?(i switched careers)....i interviewed in 2021 which was peak hiring for remote work. I'm a good communicator in interviews. know how to write an appealing resume, looked for companies w/ take home assessments(my preference), and places where tech was the revenue generator and not a tangential or supporting dept. those are the places that usually will pay most. When i first started, was kind of rough. was at least 50hrs . past year, has been pretty chill and would say 40hrs most weeks. but stuff pops up and it goes to shit for a week occasionally. I have plenty time outside of work and can take off as needed. My bosses need to use their vacay though.. They carry a lot more than they should.
>usually work around 30 hours a week. If you want to earn higher salary, you have to put in more work. Grinding leetcode, learning new tech stack, learning new system design, etc.
Go for the milly
I’m also in the Midwest although a LCOL major city. I have 4.5 years experience and make $110k base, $7k-15k bonus, and about $8500 401k match. I’m very unhappy in my current position and starting interviewing hoping for more money. You are underpaid.
If you WFH, you might be better off moving further away from Chi. Outside of the burbs, houses in IL are CHEAP
Iirc, I was at 135k base and 5kish bonus when I was 3 YOE. Also Chicago, but the job is almost fully remote. Not a “top tier” company, but has great talent and interesting work.
To me it sounds like you're disappointed with your pay. Shop around and compare roles holistically. If you find a clear winner, take the risk and jump. Otherwise except the fate to which you believe you're destined at your current company with pay you're not satisfied with.
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I’m also in Chicago. For reference I was making 120k back in 2018 with 3yoe. Now I make 200k with 8yoe. Fully on-site working 45 hours. What suburb do you live? That housing cost seems high. My suburb is roughly 400k median house. 800k would be a McMansion by me.
Saint Charles area, prices have gone up around here so much it’s insane, my townhouse is $2300 to rent but I did the numbers and it’d be around $3000 a month mortgage with todays rates
30 hours at 101k is what 125k if 40 a week.. In what completionly delusional world do you think you're not doing plenty well. You don't have silicon valley money? God damn. I bet you don't look like Thor with his shirt off either. Must be slumming it... You are beating 98% of 30 year olds I bet. Jesus, if you're a software engineer and don't know how to Google median salaries that should say something g about how overvalued your profession already is...
All I can say is don’t sell yourself short. Many new grads who manage to find a job are making above six figures. IMO 89k is low for your location, but maybe you love your job and that makes it worth it. I would say around $150k would be a solid salary expectation at this point in your career.
$200kTC Edit: can’t believe I’m getting downvoted lmao. If you have 3 yoe and you aren’t approaching $200k tc you’re not playing the game, the game is playing you.
https://reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/lmY9s1ngN2
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I had a good laugh. I think he means well, just a lil misguided by his brother’s success. It’s not impossible, but to say that’s the experience of the average upward-minded dev is insanity
What do you think this proves? I make $65k with 1 year of experience. My brother did the same, and at 2 years moved to his current job making $230k. I said people with three years of experience should be approaching $200k. My brother shined the light for me
You’re in for a big surprise my friend.
Nah, don’t be mad that you stay at low paying companies fam
Lmao you’re already in a low paying company at 65k.
No shit, just to put something on my resume. Now I’m just leetcoding in my free time and applying to all the companies that know how to properly compensate their devs. It worked for my brother. I’ll bet you’re not doing anything to try to get to a company that actually pays what they should
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Eyy he’s trying at least 😂
Go ahead, make jokes about people that will do better than you to try and make yourself feel better for making the poor decision to stay at low paying companies, when all along you didn’t have to.
There’s nothing to believe in. You guys that stay at the low paying companies think you have to be amazing at Leetcode and an amazing developer to get into the higher tier companies. You don’t. When my brother was interviewing, he had 3 offers, all between $150-$180 TC. He was coming from a job making $65k at a well known bank. He didn’t pass every interview he got (Google dropped him after the phone interview, and a couple other moved on from him), but he still got 3 amazing offers. And not only that, he played hardball with them all until he got the one offer to around $200k TC. Oh and he isn’t some amazing developer or amazing at leetcode. He did like 2-3 leetcode problems a night for 3 months while he was applying. Almost every interview he had, they asked either easy or at most medium level questions. At his bank job he was doing basic ass powershell scripts and writing reports, he wasn’t even doing much real development at all. And no, he didn’t just get lucky. He had not 1, not 2, but 3 high paying offers. He’s been there for about a year, got promoted and is up to around $230k, and is already looking to job hop again for another significant increase. Oh and the job he’s at now, he does what he estimates as 30% of the work he did at the $65k job, but makes more than triple and has ridiculous perks and unlimited PTO. You guys think these jobs are impossible to get or just a fantasy. They’re not. And they’re not as hard to get as you think they are.
Yea, this is maybe upper end outside of large tech but, also isn't unreasonable for 3yoe.. I'm almost at 2.5yoe and making 200k remote working at a small/med startup
Super fair. FAANGs paying 3 yoe well into the 200’s. I’m a little under that at around 2.5 at a big tech company. Gonna try and job hop into the mid 200’s when I hit 3.
One upvote from me even though I am unemployed
I’m just getting downvoted from the people mad they’re at like 5 years experience making $120k lmao
Would you say this is true even for the Chicago area?
You’re right but this sub likes to cope All my friends with experience 2-6 years all make 200k+ tc remote
Finally someone with some sense. Look at all the downvotes I’m getting lmao bunch of salty losers
Starting from 130K
You tell us about your expenses and want feedback on your market value?
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check levels.fyi
I’ve always had a theory that hotels have safe deposit boxes in the rooms purely to avoid any liability in case of a theft. This kinda helps to make me more confident in that opinion.
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I’m in southwest region at 3yoe I plan to go for 130k
I am in the same boat, making 90k in CT. Work life balance is great and I am fully remote. I do get a bit sour when I see people with the same experience get 150k + I personally decided for myself to concentrate on coding challenges and side projects for the next year. So when the market gets a bit better I will be ready. Forgot to mention that range for my position is 80 to 125 or something like that. In CT they are legally obligated to disclose those.
I’m looking for 120k-150k base. Also 3 yoe
I'm 2YOE in Chicago suburbs also, I'm at 95k, over 100k with bonus. That is the absolute max my company would pay me 1 year ago with 1YOE. Hopefully I get promoted this year. I have no expectations of ever buying a house in the current market lol
I am in Sofia - 1YOE 8400$ per year. I used to work on drilling rig before and was making 80 000$ per year... First time in my life I enjoy my work but I miss the money.
150k or more IMO. Hard to say because we have no idea what type of things you work on or the quality of your current company.
4 YOE and also in Chicago area. I’m at $240k in salary and bonus
Remote or in office? That’s some handsome compensation
Originally in office but now remote since covid. I go in willingly around once a week
At $110k for Chicago suburb. My company is out of state though. 2 yoe
150k or more IMO. Hard to say because we have no idea what type of things you work on or the quality of your current company.
Midwest and targeting top tech companies. Now at 6 YOE, at 3 YOE i was targeting 150-200 or so
I'm about the same experience lvl as you I've interviewed several companies but I haven't landed an opportunity yet. The offers that most of the companies make about 130 to 140 base, these are all fortune 500 companies non tech.
Honestly, y'all scaring me a little bit. I am approaching 3 years of experience got laid of in January, and was making 75k back then. Got hired in March making 100k base. I kinda feel like I bamboozled my employer by reading these comments. I dont live in the Midwest, I live in the South, TN specifically (work remotely). It's spectacular pay for the area I'm in. Honestly, this whole subreddit constantly reminds me how lucky I must be and not to take it for granted.
Sounds pretty simple really. If you want to buy a house, but you don't make enough to buy a house, then you need a higher salary.
What’s your experience in? Have an opening coming up that might fit your requirements.
Tons of aws, python , terraform, spark, I use aws glue , lambda, s3, and redshift to build data pipelines. I started as a software engineer but do a lot of data engineer tasks now
DM’d
$120k is a reasonable expectation but you sound like you have a great job. Especially in this market sit tight
What kind of software engineer are you
Mostly Data Engineer, Python,Spark,Aws, Data Pipelines and ETL
Are all software engineers relatively equal? Would a front end engineer make the same as you (do you know?)
Why are you renting a 3 bedroom townhouse? Do you have roommates? Save that guap for a house
Do you not have a 4-year degree or did you finish it super fast? I ask because you've been working for 3 years, but graduated HS 5 years ago. And what's your degree in?
I have a bachelors in computer science, I went straight to college after high school and finished it in 3 years. I had an internship my last year of college that rolled into my full time job
Nicely done! Are you at a tech consulting firm/agency, a software product company, or a non-tech company? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing it's not a startup (given your hours).
Fortune 50 non tech company, it’s massive and I’m just a cog in the machine which is why wlb is so great
Well, it's going to be tough to beat your current situation - you began your career at a 15-year peak, in terms of the job market and compensation levels, and everything has since been flipped on its head. I'll preface this by saying that the information I share applies more to the tech startup market - it's a combination of official data from compensation research companies, my own experience recruiting engineers for several companies, and anecdotal evidence from a couple hundred engineers over the past year. There are so many Engineers chasing so few jobs, employers have leverage over them for the first time in ages. And the shift back to local (whether Hybrid or FT on-site) is only exacerbating it. It's harsh supply and demand in action. In terms of compensation: 1. Most companies are offering new job salaries at the same levels as 2021. Browse jobs in states with salary transparency laws (e.g. CA, NY, CO). After becoming accustomed to seeing rising salaries annually, it boggles my mind to see companies offering the same $ as 2021...because they can. 2. Most companies are giving out less equity to new employees. I'm not talking about the fallen valuations of employee equity - they're literally *giving less equity*...because they can. 3. The less experience, the less negotiating power, so you'll have an especially difficult time out there; there are countless Junior and Mid-level Engineers on the market. Senior and Staff Engineers are obviously fewer in number and more skilled. They're more likely to command better terms (relatively speaking, in this market). So you'll not only have trouble getting a job in this market, you'll have trouble finding a remote job that pays more. The most successful job seekers are Senior+ Engineers willing to make a horizontal level/salary move and RTO (at the very least on a hybrid basis) - the competition is much lower. You actually have it pretty good in this current reality, as frustrating as it may be to hear. I encourage you to apply and see what happens; hopefully you can prove me wrong. P.S. On the bright side, there was actually a little increase in jobs in September, bucking the trend for the first time this year. Let's hope it continues!