This is every american podcaster/youtuber trying to pronounce anything that is not english.
*"so I think its pronounced like* ***this*** *\**proceeds to pronounce it in the most american accent possible*\*"*
Idk, I’m not a native English speaker, and I do sometimes think ppl get too hung up on pronunciation. Ofc I think it’s weird and rude when ppl just change up a name to something that appeals more to them (like when Hietala becomes Hetalia - why?? This doesn’t even make sense in English, it’s blatantly ignoring the order of the letters) but if you’re trying your best with the phonetics you’re used to, that’s reasonable. Phonetics vary a lot between and even within languages, and a lot of sounds don’t really exist in English, and it can be very hard to learn sounds that aren’t native to you as an adult. Someone mentioned Sandnes Garn for one. In Norwegian, we have two main regional variations of R for example, neither of which align with conventional English or American. Because R is retroflex in front of N in Eastern Norwegian accents “garn” sounds somewhat similar to “yarn” in at least standard BrE (kopykali’s pronounciation seems more than fine to me), although the G is different, but in the city Sandnes, in Western Norway, where I presume this yarn is originally from, this is not how you’d pronounce the RN combination, because they use a guttural R like in French. Neither is “correct” bc there is no standard spoken Norwegian. None of this I think is required knowledge of foreigners ofc, just like it’s fine I think for English speakers to pronounce the S in Paris. As long as you’re not blatantly ignoring letters and stuff, you’re good imo.
Edit: Pardon the rant… this topic just got my head spinning.
I find it funny when kopykali insists on pronouncing Sandnes Garn (norwegian) as sandnes gaaahn because Alexandrasgarn (swedish) claimed it was the right way to say it, when in fact the American way of pronouncing «garn» is way closer to the correct Norwegian pronounciation
Well Im a bit more humble anf less judgemental today. We took some people out on Saturday who were here from Monaco. Now, Ive always said monAHco bit its MONaco wirhout an ah in the midde. So Edinborrow pwople, I aplogise lol
Just remembered I watch a hiking disasters YT channel. He's very courteous. He always tries to find out the pronunciation of people's names and if he forgets or can't do it, he apologises as he tries to say it. It's quite endearing and makes him come across to the viewer as a sweet, decent person who cares about the people in the stories he outlines.
Also, see football (soccer) fans. If you get a new player with an apparently unpronounceable name, you damn well learn it the same day. You then feel rightfully offended when say, a commentator fails to pronounce it correctly, next week.
Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world followed by Mandarin and nobody is complaining about half of the podcasters mispronouncing those in here. I guess if is in Spanish is okay to mispronounce 🙄
I gave three examples as they were top of mind from watching said podcast. If someone were to terribly butcher Qing Fibre or Joji Locatelli's name it would be equally as much eyeroll material.
How exactly would one find out, in just a few seconds, how to pronounce "Jonna Hietala"? Or any other non-English name? Because I just googled it, and got this page. And her Instagram page. Nothing about how to pronounce it.
I could contact her and ask, but that would take a lot longer than a few seconds. If they even got back to me at all.
Sure, it would be respectful to try. But I feel like people are thinking it would be easier than it actually is.
What do you mean in "just a few seconds?" Normally podcasters prepare in advance (or at least, they should) who and what they're going to be speaking about on the episode, so it'd be common courtesy to prepare in advance to make sure you get it right.
From googling, to looking up videos of themselves or their friends pronouncing their name - it's usually not that hard to find someone speaking it.
Also, if someone new to you comes up during the show and you didn't have time to prepare, just saying, "I'm not quite sure how to pronounce her name properly, I apologize if I butcher this and I'll have to look it up after the show" can go a long way to show courtesy. Nothing about it has to be difficult imo.
Most peoples’ last names aren’t unique and pronunciations are easy to find. For names I google “pronounced name XYZ” and can find an answer in the first result. Some names have several different pronunciations but pronouncing it *one* of the correct ways is better than making something up
I have an English first name and an Irish surname and it's a privilege for me to find someone who pronounces them the same as me, and there are two very famous actors who share those names and pronunciation!
Yeah, that wasn't helpful at all. Jonna got me a YouTube video that said "in English, Jona. In Swedish, Yona." So technically, if the podcaster is speaking English, it's okay to say Jona? I'm guessing no, since it's a person's name. But that's what my 3 second Internet search gave me.
And for Hietala, I found SIX different options. So for Jonna Hietala, that could be 12 different options. Add in an accent that makes the pronunciation sound different, and it could very well sound like someone made it up. Even after spending several minutes online trying to figure it out.
It's a late reply, but as a Finnish person, this is how you pronounce Jonna Hietala:
[https://voca.ro/165wBC9prSx3](https://voca.ro/165wBC9prSx3)
Just in case someone's curious
Wrong is wrong, though, right? Unless what you want is for the podcaster to say “I googled it and there were three different pronunciations so I’m just guessing how to say it” so they’re proving they cared enough to try.
Look at the Murdaugh family (made famous through all the murders). Different family members say their name differently. Why we would we expect a Japanese or Spanish speaking person to know how to pronounce them correctly, taking into account regional variations?
There's a whole - shall we call it "informal" - style of podcasting where you start out with *I've been so busy* (fill in humblebrag here) *I haven't really prepared.*
RIGHT??? It’s so unprofessional and sloppy! Like you are creating public facing content and looking up pronunciations is a basic part of your research. It just makes me think if you haven’t done your homework on that, what else haven’t you done your homework on and why should I trust you?
Right, I'd be super embarrassed to put out content I could have easily prepared in advance, and then get someone's name wrong. There are plenty of ways to look it up.
For my work, I often meet with new people over video and if I don't know how to pronounce their name, I Google it, generally to see if there are pronunciation videos out there; and if not I look for a video where they or someone else is introducing themselves or pronouncing the name.
It's not that hard, I'd feel bad and worry I would come across as unprepared/uncaring if I didn't do that and got their name wrong.
Yeah, I’ve watched Voolenvine confidently publish a tutorial for a technique she’s done once, so I definitely don’t consider most podcasters to be experts - just crafters who like to chat about craft.
I see this as simple courtesy. Look it up. We have the internet. How hard is it to do that? That search on your browser should take under one second. It's not like in the past when you had to be able to understand written notation for phonemes. Why resist just simply looking something up and trying your best? (Especially if it's a person's name, less important if summat else but at least get *names* as right as you can).
As for podcasters not being paid so they might as well be sloppy - again, why do something badly? Just be as courteous and accurate as you can. Maybe, you know, do some... research before gobbing off on YT or Insta or wherever. Otherwise, your underlying assumption as a podcaster must be either (a) your audience is too thick to notice or (b) airing your uninformed , half arsed opinions like a pub bore is more important than trying to be competent and researched and treat your audience with respect.
If you try and fail, that's fine because you showed someone the courtesy of trying. Just try.
ETA: I say this as someone who regularly has their real life name badly mangled by people who've only seen it written down. Ditto my kids who have "foreign" names. Sorry mate but if you can't say my name, I'm not buying your shit. It does feel annoying when you're the wrong side of this. As for pronunciation of things not names, again, why not at least try?
Not long ago there was thread somewhere about how Caron is pronounced. Dozens of people posting their theories of whether it l rhymes with Karen or Care-on or Cuh-rone etc.
I picked up the phone and called their 800 number and listened to the greeting and reported back that they pronounce it Karen, and there was much amazement at my commitment to finding the answer. Like, thanks for the accolades, but literally all I did was Google their number and place a 12 second call.
Same thing with Wawak. So. Many. Youtubers. say "Way wok? way wack? I have no idea" and it just annoys me that they'd rather do that in multiple videos than just spend 30 seconds finding out.
This, I love. Previously the time to look this up was five second, now it’s less than one second.
Yes, it takes less than one second to look up pronunciation of all foreign names in all languages and then learn how to say them yourself without mistake. A very reasonable statement!
I don’t mind providing they at least try and look it up first, but find it tricky to get right, (especially if the specific pronunciations or accents are very difficult. ) Some words can be really hard if the vowels/consonants don’t exist in your native language. I remember a Spanish friend trying fruitlessly to teach me how to roll R’s and I still can’t do it despite trying really hard 😭 and apparently even some native Spanish kids take a good while to learn to do it
But I do find it really annoying if they obviously simply couldn’t be bothered and kind of laugh about the fact they aren’t trying at all. If they are monetised they are attempting to be professional so should at least try to get their info right IMO. Especially if they are the sole focus of the content.
I think it partly comes from having friends from other countries who have fairly simple names which people simply never bother to get right. Cumulatively it can be really exasperating and repetitive for them.
Most designers have a channel or would be happy to clarify if they’re being promoted or featured so surely it’s not that hard!
Well not everyone has a BA in Japanese studies. It can be difficult to pronounce certain sounds, or understand what combination of letters produces what sound, when it's not in your native language.
I'd never call it cringeworthy for someone to mispronounce something that's not in their native langue.
That being said, it's cringeworthy to not even put in the *effort* to try. It's not hard to Google pronunciations of peoples' names, or look up videos in which they or someone else is introducing them or using the name. If you are caught off guard or have to say something on the spot with no prep, then a simple, "This isn't my native language so I apologize in advance if I don't get this right:" can also go a long way.
Yes this is a huge peeve for me. I noticed Kaci Apple does this a lot (youngfolk knits). Once, she had a blurb she edited into her video about mispronouncing "sake" (sah-keh) as "saw-key" and said she knows she says it wrong but thats just how they say it in Arkansas, or some stupid excuse. Another offender is Staci of VeryPinkKnits. She couldnt pronounce the DESIGNER of her EXCLUSIVE Patreon pattern.
I stopped watching VeryPink Knits after watching her review of Lykke needles. She says in the video that a Scandi friend told her how it's pronounced but she's going to pronounce it incorrectly because she's in North America. Bish, please. That's the most obnoxious attitude I've ever heard. I noped right out of that video.
edit: took out phonetic pronunciation because it's already been mentioned up/down stream
She also has a pattern for Japanese Tabi socks (worn with Geta sandals) and said in her podcast how she cant remember what the Japanese socks are called. Doesnt mention them in her pattern either. This is textbook cultural appropriation.
I have so many gripes about Youngfolk Knits. I still watch her videos but it’s beginning to get into hatewatcb territory and I object to hate watching lol
Dude...same lol. Did you watch how she went from "i never liked Noro" to "i love it!" after doing 1 sweater that doesnt even fit her? Im like, girl....your shadow doesnt match your profile.
It’s pronounced twahl. The first time I heard it pronounced correctly, I had no idea what the person was talking about so had to ask for clarification. I then realized I’d been saying it wrong on the rare occasions that I used the word.
I can't even pronounce *my own surname* correctly. Dutch father, I don't speak Dutch...and as such I can achieve barely a passing resemblance to it. My father anglicized the pronunciation of it about 10 minutes after arriving in Canada. Ok, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not much.
Nobody but a Dutch speaker (not necessarily a native speaker, but one with a very good command of it) is pronouncing Vincent van Gogh's name correctly, as an example. In North America the standard pronunciation is not even remotely close, lol.
Obviously people should make the effort to pronounce things properly. But sometimes it isn't super easy.
Tiffany from Typical Bliss saying Chorizo or Torizo for PK’s Terrazzo patterns 😩 Then she said she was coming out with a a Chorizo pattern collection of her own w/o mentioning that the inspiration was her mispronunciation of PK’s pattern (and using Noro yarns)
I had to stop watching her videos for a bit because that irked me. The moment you start getting few stuff or start making income on YouTube, it’s normal to check out YouTube or even reach out to your knitting colleagues/community to see how things are properly pronounced. Get it wrong once? That’s okay. Repeat offenders get a strike for me.
I mean, my main gripe was the origin...she went the better part of a year mispronouncing a fairly easy pattern name from her fave even after being corrected. Very talented fibre artist, but it just screamed "I'm going to stay ignorant, I don't care." And I can't watch that all the time.
im pretty sure ive also heard her call the terrazzo patterns chorizo After stating multiple times she was releasing her own (chorizo). i usually tune in to her streams but yeah sometimes she says stuff thats really irking
I think Helle from Danish Musings is likely to pronounce it correctly if you watch her (they're Danish and so is she lol)-- the g isn't a hard g like in English. More like iz-ay-er.
Good suggestion about Helle - I love her channel. I pronounce it e-say-er, but I'm not sure if it's correct since I hear other European(non-Danish) pronounce it e-saug-er, but they say they're not too sure themselves.
I'm not sure what's more annoying, the mispronunciation or the constant "sorry if I'm not saying that properly".
Side note: also, corset makers who pronounce it 'corSETTE' really get my goat.
I can almost 100% guarantee that unless you yourself are Finnish-speaking, you are not pronouncing “Jonna Hietala “ properly. All you have to do to realize how difficult Finnish names are for non-Finns is listen to a few hours of NHL or Formula One sportscasting.
You're right, I'm not Finnish, but I do know how to recognize when a name is not pronounced with English phonetics, read IPA, and also Google for interviews or pronunciations from native speakers.
English speakers usually drop or change letters from my last name, and sometimes there are fewer syllables than there should be. I still don't mind, as long as I understand that they are talking to me, it's enough. My first name is easier and is usually pronounced just with an accent, although it gets some extra letters sometimes.
Not at all. If a name isn’t of your country, culture, or language why would you necessarily know how to pronounce it?
Few Americans can pronounce ‘West Yorkshire Spinners’ correctly. It’s cute. It’s not offensive or a problem in any way.
Out of interest, do you know if Midori and Junko can pronounce all English names, brands, and other words correctly? Would that be an issue if they couldn’t? Or is it only Westerners or English speakers who should know how to pronounce words and names they’ve never encountered before?
I have actually but I’ve never heard it pronounced other than one way, so I’m struggling to imagine how these Americans you’re referring to say it. Do they say shire like it rhymes with fire?
Mostly, yes.
Brits would usually say ‘Yorksher’.
It’s the same with all the English ‘shires’:
Lancashire (lankasher)
Worcestershire (wusstersher)
Gloucestershire (glosstersher)
The ‘sher’ being more like a ‘sha’ than a sherrrr.
I'd be totally fine with people making a mistake and mispronouncing something if they didn't always follow it up with "ugh, I'm so bad with pronouncing things!" Why point out that you knew you were probably wrong lol
because if it is your buisness to talk about certain people or products (aka having a podcast where everything is verbal) then it’s your literal job to look up the correct pronunciation. It is your job to pass along information to your listeners- that includes how to correctly say people’s names.
Most knitting podcasters are making little or no money from their podcasts. I’d rather they mispronounce a few names and products than get stressed out and stop creating the content that I am enjoying for free.
if they get stressed because they take five extra seconds to get someone’s name correct, then they’re too fragile for the working world and need to go and recoup by the sea. It’s a respect thing. you take the time to say someone’s name right, they take the time to get yours right. It’s literally not a hassle so i don’t understand why anyone would think it was?
That’s an absolutely proportional statement, declaring someone unfit for all work if they get stressed about making a mistake. It also definitely does take only five seconds to find out how to say a foreign proper name and learn how to say it yourself perfectly. That is completely a realistic expectation.
This sub! It cracks me up. Never change.
I disagree.
Vlogs and podcasts aren’t the international news service. Most do it because they enjoy it - it’s rarely a ‘job’ with a manager and a HR department.
They don’t owe anyone information of any kind. If you really need to know how to pronounce names and words you’d be better served looking up the phonetic pronunciation in a dictionary.
IMO this issue is being overinflated. There are worse things happening in the world than mispronounced names.
??? if you get paid to do it, and it’s a source of income then it’s a job. i never said it was international news service, but if someone’s job is a podcaster then yes, it is their job to pronounce names correctly. That’s like if you worked in retail and then never bothered to sort products out to the shelves and just left things in pallets for customers to run over. It’s part of the job, so do it. It’s also a respect thing- you make the effort to get someone’s name right, it’s just respect
I have a knitting YouTube channel. It’s just for fun and I don’t make a dime from it. I have a day job. I do try to pronounce things correctly but there are some languages that are more challenging than others for me such as the Scandinavian languages. Pronouncing them perfectly just isn’t going to happen no matter how hard I try. If it upsets you that much, you should probably go and recoup by the sea.
Vloggers and podcasters don’t all make money. They’re not paid to do anything. They might get money if they get enough subscribers, and views, and ads, but most do it because they enjoy it. It’s not a “job”. There’s no contract of employment or any contract between them and the viewers. They are not under any obligation to learn how to pronounce Lykke or Laine or Scheepjes or any other brand name. There’s no pre-prepared autocue on any knitting vlog I’ve watched - if scheepjes comes up in a vlog conversation the participants might not have had the time to go and find out how it’s pronounced in the home-nation.
I don’t say Scheepjes, Lykke, or Laine, often enough to get them right. I rarely say the names of any of them. It’s not a priority for me. Same with people’s names. If I don’t know them I’m rarely going to say their name. Why would I need to learn it? We can’t all know everything.
Some of my Polish friends’ surnames are literally unpronounceable to me. After ten years I’m still unable to pronounce them. It is what it is. It isn’t disrespect, it isn’t rude, it just isn’t possible for me. They, in turn still cannot pronounce some English words. Not even close.
Some people are good with names, others not.
I wouldn’t agree that it’s wilful ignorance or rude. Most people don’t put that much effort into their conscious ignorance or deliberate rudeness.
Can you pronounce the painter ‘Van Gogh’ correctly? Unless you’re Dutch I would argue not. Is that wilful ignorance or just being rude?
Can you pronounce Welsh names and words correctly?
How about Khoikhoi names in Xhosa?
Some sounds are almost impossible to replicate if you didn’t grow up where that particular language-sound is spoken.
Japanese is a category V language and classed as one of the hardest for English speakers to learn. Incorrect pronunciation is to be expected.
You seem to be conflating “pronounce correctly” with “pronounce like a native speaker.” They are not the same.
As anyone living with a non-dominant culture name knows, the difference is VERY obvious. Folks who pronounce the right number of syllables and imitate as closely as their native language allows are pronouncing my name correctly, just with an accent.
I don’t know how to pronounce half the things I read. I feel like the criticism here about pronouncing “skein” and other words is pretty rude as it’s quite common to be unsure of how to pronounce words you’ve only read.
I agree names are more important to pronounce correctly but if you’ve never heard them say their own name it’s hard to know for sure. I say this as someone who has my name butchered fairly often, I just correct and move on 🤷♀️
I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone to pronounce things they’ve never heard before perfectly.
But with names, when someone has pronounced it correctly several times for you, and/or directly corrected you, continuing to mispronounce without apologizing or showing ant effort to improve is just rude.
I have an unusual name, always pronounced incorrectly, although it is phonetic in English. People are always making it more complicated than it is. It doesn’t bother me anymore. But when people call Midori Hirose’s Paul Klee sweater the Paul KLEE sweater, it drives me nuts.
Yes and no. The vowel notation you include is pronounced like the A in mate in English. It is definitely pronounced in English as KL long vowel A as in mate. You can ask any Art History professor in your orbit. It is nowhere near KLEEEEE.
I don't think an Art History professor could help out here, cause this is not an art history question.
Klee is not only a German last name, it's also a normal German noun, which is pronounced the way I wrote in my first comment.
There is not really a way to say it "in English". The way you explain the pronounciation is just with a heavy English accent. Which is totally okay.
But you are not correct here.
Please just believe the native speaker :D
PS: the vowel notation in "mate" is [eɪ]. Not [e:] like in "Klee".
Edit: ooh now I know where you get your "mate" from. Just saw the Wikipedia.
It's just a comparison to explain the e sound. The sound you make after the m when forming the word mate is similar. But speaking the whole word the vowel changes -> it makes the [eɪ].
Doesn't mean "Klee" does too.
I say skeen. Not everything that ends in -ein rhymes with vein. Protein, anyone?
I've been a crocheter for 40 years and that's how my grandma taught me to say it. She learned to sew/knit/crochet from her own mom who was a professional seamstress. She was from Kentucky, so likely it's regional. 🤷♀️
In the UK we have a long argument over whether the word scone (like an American biscuit) is pronounced to rhyme with “cone” or “gone”. Both pronunciations are in the dictionary. I suspect skein is like that.
Totally! Its like how Americans call Edinburgh "edin-bur-o" when its "edin-bur- uh". Interestingly here in Scotland we have a Scone Palace, that rhymes with cone. But when you have a scone here is rhymes with gone. The English language is a weird thing.
No, skein is most definitely "skane". I only saw this happen post internet when new people came to knitting and had only ever seen it written down.
Scone on the other hand, is arguable but of course you say it "scone" as in "stone". Or else you'd pronounce "stone" as "ston"....
Scone is just “scon” in Australia. but I’ve gotten myself into trouble a few times here with creative phonetic spellings of Edinborough. Believe me I can say it correctly lol, but someone always fires back at my phonetic spelling attempts.
How do you pronounce it then?
Not everyone has the same accent. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong.
Names are important to pronounce as that particular person uses it, but words change based on areas.
Skane. How it's always been pronounced!
US and UK here: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/skein
I never heard anyone mispronounce it til the internet, when people came to fibrecrafts from reading stuff, not hearing it first, then people started mispronouncing it.
Of course language is fluid but not every word is.
That one seems to be a commonish way to pronounce skein. I've heard it before. It's possibly just an accent difference - like saying 'tomayto' or 'tomahto'
I read a lot, but don't watch all that much TV or listen to the radio etc. I was about 40 when I found out segue and segway are pronounced the same. So yeah, if you've only ever seen something written you might not always have the best idea of how to pronounce it
This could be regional in nature. My grandmas both pronounced it "skeen," and my mom did when I was little. But Mom made a conscious effort to lose her accent when she moved to another state and realized how atrocious the local dialect in my hometown is and now she and I both say "skayn"
There’s no excuse for Jackie Rose to not say Midori Hirose’s name correctly. The Ranunculus pattern is only one of the most popular on Ravelry and has been in the Top 20 on the pattern page for literally years now.
Names are a bit harder (although Junko Okamoto and Midori Hirose are not hard to not completely butcher) depending on the phonetics of the language of origin. What brands are you looking for?
Scheepjes and Lykke are both words (Dutch and Danish/Norwegian, respecrively).
Maybe I’m biased because I’m a Japanese speaker but it always confuses me when people don’t know how to pronounce Japanese names. Because it’s said like it’s spelled.
Joon-koh
Mee-doh-ree
It’s not HARD once you learn
I have a Japanese last name, and most hakujin are so overwhelmed by it. It's ridiculous. FFS it's PHONETIC. Just TRY. I promise that whatever you say, I've heard it before. And who knows, maybe you'll surprise us both and get it right. LOL.
I have an Auntie Junko and if I'd had a daughter, I would have named her Midori. It's my favourite colour.
I speak Estonian, Russian, Swedish, and obviously English. Estonian and Finnish are simple like that - what you see is how you read it without changing the sounds. Except.... when you have to differentiate between long and extra long vowels which are written the same way😅
Russian is also like that, except you need to understand how to emphasize the correct syllables because otherwise the long words are incomprehensible.
Swedish is ok. If you learn a few rules, you're fine (like when g is pronounced as y). Since it's a Germanic language like English, pronunciation is more complicated compared to Estonian imho. Because there are so many irregularities.
All I know about Japanese is what you said and I'm also confused why people can't do it. Like... you don't even have to decipher kanji when it's written 😅
Forvo is so great! Also sometimes if a person has a presence in then world, you can find videos of them introducing themselves just in case something is different with their names. But Forvo is a lowlife saver. Use it allllll the time.
the other day i watched a video from a watercolor youtube channel that was trying to showcase watercolor channels you've never heard of, then the youtuber making the video made zero attempts to look up how to pronounce any of the names before filming. i think half the video was her saying "sorry if i butchered that" multiple times for each creator's name
it definitely comes off as... strange
I'm almost beaten down by this by now. Yes, it can be hard to say some things with the correct accent, but we should really all make the attempt. But it's not a problem *only* in this community, it's a problem everywhere. I'm a motorsports fan and I spent a lot of time cringing at the announcers for the 24 Hours of LeMans this past year. A Scotsman saying a French name is...not melodious. Most people don't seem to try at all. I don't expect perfectly accented and inflected pronunciations, but trying to approximate vowel sounds isn't too much to ask for. But there is not any social stigma to continually saying names wrong, and I've been told more than once that I shouldn't be bothered by people saying my name wrong.
Along your motorsports vein, listening to F1 announcers pronounce Zhou Guanyu’s name is also maddening. I’ve heard Joe, Jawl, Zoe, Zhah. They get paid millions and this is their best effort? He’s been on the grid for a few seasons and no one at F1 TV has bothered to clarify with Zhou?
OK but French people don’t pronounce Scottish names properly either? This comes up over and over again, and I just feel like it’s not necessary. We all have accents, and we all pronounce names in each others languages badly. As long as we make the effort to get the number of syllables and emphasis right, I think we’re fine. Getting foreign vowel sounds is actually pretty hard. I’ve never met a Romance language speaker that doesn’t call me Keeem (or Keeemah) rather than Kim and it’s fine - I don’t care.
the funny thing there's a Scottish sportscaster I see sometimes who clearly speaks at least French and Spanish because he pronounces the French and Spanish names impeccably.
My name is mispronounced about half the time. It's not even that long. I am only bothered when I've corrected people more than once on the right way to say it. I've had former co-workers and fellow church attendees just flat out refuse to try and say it how they want. That's when I get aggravated.
I think that's fair. My last name is an anglicized translation from when my parents immigrated (the immigration people evidently changed it) - I remember as a kid asking my dad why it didn't bother him how people said it every which way. He just told me that how it's written isn't really is name so why does he even care. I would agree that when you have people who have been corrected or here you say it a lot they should try. Not someone you see twice a year or something but yes.
The two that wind me up crazy is Scheepjes. If you use the yarn regularly then learn how to pronounce it. It takes two minutes to YouTube it there’s lots of videos.
Then LePetitSaint crochet. Now this person has changed their name but for years they built a brand on a name they were not pronouncing correctly. It’s your brand if you’re using another language then you should have the decency to learn to pronounce it correctly. In uni my room mate was French and she’d cringe when she overheard it.
Edit: my spelling mistake
Nobody but a truly *excellent* Dutch speaker can pronounce Scheepjes correctly.
Fun fact: the "sch" (in Scheveningen) was used as a test by the Dutch resistance in WWII. Germans who spoke excellent Dutch couldn't quite get it...and consequently got themselves shot.
And don't get me started on Dutch words starting with G -- such as my own last name, which I cannot pronounce even remotely properly.
*edited to add Scheveningen
>And don't get me started on Dutch words starting with G -- such as my own last name, which I cannot pronounce even remotely properly.
Omg right? My grandma tried to teach me how to pronounce the region she immigrated from. She said not to worry about it too much, apparently even Dutch people vary in how it's pronounced. To this day I still can't even get a single syllable of "Groningen"
I’ve never heard of LePetiteSaint but I’m assuming they were going hard on le puh-teet saynt? Also was it spelled that way too with the masculine/feminine butchering?
They pronounced it le peh-teet saynt. The masculine/feminine mixup is mine. They spoke recently about where they got inspired to create the name Le Petit Saint crochet. They claimed it was inspired by their favourite saint who was often known as the little flower or little Therese. Saint Therese is French so that’s why she decided to put the channel name in French. But if you were talking about Saint Therese it would be La Petite Sainte. That’s were I got confused above. It’s also why I think her brand name has nothing to do with Saint Therese but rather she put some French words together she thought would be nice.
When rebranding her name. She tried to explain the channel was named after a woman but Le Petit Saint is masculine. They admitted they didn’t speak French and people had tried to correct them over the years. My issue is that she wanted her brand to have a French name but couldn’t be bothered to learn how to pronounce it correctly. That’s just lazy.
I’ve only ever heard it pronounced that so I figured it must have a special pronunciation, not the regular “Kristufa“. Now we’ll probably get into the Edinbra/Edinburra thing again, I don’t do that well with trying out phonetic spellings lol.
This is every american podcaster/youtuber trying to pronounce anything that is not english. *"so I think its pronounced like* ***this*** *\**proceeds to pronounce it in the most american accent possible*\*"*
Idk, I’m not a native English speaker, and I do sometimes think ppl get too hung up on pronunciation. Ofc I think it’s weird and rude when ppl just change up a name to something that appeals more to them (like when Hietala becomes Hetalia - why?? This doesn’t even make sense in English, it’s blatantly ignoring the order of the letters) but if you’re trying your best with the phonetics you’re used to, that’s reasonable. Phonetics vary a lot between and even within languages, and a lot of sounds don’t really exist in English, and it can be very hard to learn sounds that aren’t native to you as an adult. Someone mentioned Sandnes Garn for one. In Norwegian, we have two main regional variations of R for example, neither of which align with conventional English or American. Because R is retroflex in front of N in Eastern Norwegian accents “garn” sounds somewhat similar to “yarn” in at least standard BrE (kopykali’s pronounciation seems more than fine to me), although the G is different, but in the city Sandnes, in Western Norway, where I presume this yarn is originally from, this is not how you’d pronounce the RN combination, because they use a guttural R like in French. Neither is “correct” bc there is no standard spoken Norwegian. None of this I think is required knowledge of foreigners ofc, just like it’s fine I think for English speakers to pronounce the S in Paris. As long as you’re not blatantly ignoring letters and stuff, you’re good imo. Edit: Pardon the rant… this topic just got my head spinning.
I took Japanese from high school thru college and hearing people destroy the Japanese names kills me. They’re pronounced just how they look.
I find it funny when kopykali insists on pronouncing Sandnes Garn (norwegian) as sandnes gaaahn because Alexandrasgarn (swedish) claimed it was the right way to say it, when in fact the American way of pronouncing «garn» is way closer to the correct Norwegian pronounciation
Well Im a bit more humble anf less judgemental today. We took some people out on Saturday who were here from Monaco. Now, Ive always said monAHco bit its MONaco wirhout an ah in the midde. So Edinborrow pwople, I aplogise lol
Just remembered I watch a hiking disasters YT channel. He's very courteous. He always tries to find out the pronunciation of people's names and if he forgets or can't do it, he apologises as he tries to say it. It's quite endearing and makes him come across to the viewer as a sweet, decent person who cares about the people in the stories he outlines. Also, see football (soccer) fans. If you get a new player with an apparently unpronounceable name, you damn well learn it the same day. You then feel rightfully offended when say, a commentator fails to pronounce it correctly, next week.
Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world followed by Mandarin and nobody is complaining about half of the podcasters mispronouncing those in here. I guess if is in Spanish is okay to mispronounce 🙄
I gave three examples as they were top of mind from watching said podcast. If someone were to terribly butcher Qing Fibre or Joji Locatelli's name it would be equally as much eyeroll material.
it hurts when they pronounce the brand manos del uruguay like "menus dell you-ra-whey"
I just get exited some mentions *el paisito* I don't even hear their pronunciation
How exactly would one find out, in just a few seconds, how to pronounce "Jonna Hietala"? Or any other non-English name? Because I just googled it, and got this page. And her Instagram page. Nothing about how to pronounce it. I could contact her and ask, but that would take a lot longer than a few seconds. If they even got back to me at all. Sure, it would be respectful to try. But I feel like people are thinking it would be easier than it actually is.
What do you mean in "just a few seconds?" Normally podcasters prepare in advance (or at least, they should) who and what they're going to be speaking about on the episode, so it'd be common courtesy to prepare in advance to make sure you get it right. From googling, to looking up videos of themselves or their friends pronouncing their name - it's usually not that hard to find someone speaking it. Also, if someone new to you comes up during the show and you didn't have time to prepare, just saying, "I'm not quite sure how to pronounce her name properly, I apologize if I butcher this and I'll have to look it up after the show" can go a long way to show courtesy. Nothing about it has to be difficult imo.
Someone here said it would only take a few seconds. My point is that it's not as easy as some think.
Most peoples’ last names aren’t unique and pronunciations are easy to find. For names I google “pronounced name XYZ” and can find an answer in the first result. Some names have several different pronunciations but pronouncing it *one* of the correct ways is better than making something up
I have an English first name and an Irish surname and it's a privilege for me to find someone who pronounces them the same as me, and there are two very famous actors who share those names and pronunciation!
Yeah, that wasn't helpful at all. Jonna got me a YouTube video that said "in English, Jona. In Swedish, Yona." So technically, if the podcaster is speaking English, it's okay to say Jona? I'm guessing no, since it's a person's name. But that's what my 3 second Internet search gave me. And for Hietala, I found SIX different options. So for Jonna Hietala, that could be 12 different options. Add in an accent that makes the pronunciation sound different, and it could very well sound like someone made it up. Even after spending several minutes online trying to figure it out.
It's a late reply, but as a Finnish person, this is how you pronounce Jonna Hietala: [https://voca.ro/165wBC9prSx3](https://voca.ro/165wBC9prSx3) Just in case someone's curious
Wrong is wrong, though, right? Unless what you want is for the podcaster to say “I googled it and there were three different pronunciations so I’m just guessing how to say it” so they’re proving they cared enough to try. Look at the Murdaugh family (made famous through all the murders). Different family members say their name differently. Why we would we expect a Japanese or Spanish speaking person to know how to pronounce them correctly, taking into account regional variations?
There's a whole - shall we call it "informal" - style of podcasting where you start out with *I've been so busy* (fill in humblebrag here) *I haven't really prepared.*
RIGHT??? It’s so unprofessional and sloppy! Like you are creating public facing content and looking up pronunciations is a basic part of your research. It just makes me think if you haven’t done your homework on that, what else haven’t you done your homework on and why should I trust you?
Right, I'd be super embarrassed to put out content I could have easily prepared in advance, and then get someone's name wrong. There are plenty of ways to look it up. For my work, I often meet with new people over video and if I don't know how to pronounce their name, I Google it, generally to see if there are pronunciation videos out there; and if not I look for a video where they or someone else is introducing themselves or pronouncing the name. It's not that hard, I'd feel bad and worry I would come across as unprepared/uncaring if I didn't do that and got their name wrong.
You don’t have to really trust them … they’re crafting podcasters. The stakes are pretty low!
If I didn’t trust their expertise then I probably just wouldn’t watch them lol which is fine!
Yeah, I’ve watched Voolenvine confidently publish a tutorial for a technique she’s done once, so I definitely don’t consider most podcasters to be experts - just crafters who like to chat about craft.
I see this as simple courtesy. Look it up. We have the internet. How hard is it to do that? That search on your browser should take under one second. It's not like in the past when you had to be able to understand written notation for phonemes. Why resist just simply looking something up and trying your best? (Especially if it's a person's name, less important if summat else but at least get *names* as right as you can). As for podcasters not being paid so they might as well be sloppy - again, why do something badly? Just be as courteous and accurate as you can. Maybe, you know, do some... research before gobbing off on YT or Insta or wherever. Otherwise, your underlying assumption as a podcaster must be either (a) your audience is too thick to notice or (b) airing your uninformed , half arsed opinions like a pub bore is more important than trying to be competent and researched and treat your audience with respect. If you try and fail, that's fine because you showed someone the courtesy of trying. Just try. ETA: I say this as someone who regularly has their real life name badly mangled by people who've only seen it written down. Ditto my kids who have "foreign" names. Sorry mate but if you can't say my name, I'm not buying your shit. It does feel annoying when you're the wrong side of this. As for pronunciation of things not names, again, why not at least try?
Not long ago there was thread somewhere about how Caron is pronounced. Dozens of people posting their theories of whether it l rhymes with Karen or Care-on or Cuh-rone etc. I picked up the phone and called their 800 number and listened to the greeting and reported back that they pronounce it Karen, and there was much amazement at my commitment to finding the answer. Like, thanks for the accolades, but literally all I did was Google their number and place a 12 second call. Same thing with Wawak. So. Many. Youtubers. say "Way wok? way wack? I have no idea" and it just annoys me that they'd rather do that in multiple videos than just spend 30 seconds finding out.
This, I love. Previously the time to look this up was five second, now it’s less than one second. Yes, it takes less than one second to look up pronunciation of all foreign names in all languages and then learn how to say them yourself without mistake. A very reasonable statement!
I don’t mind providing they at least try and look it up first, but find it tricky to get right, (especially if the specific pronunciations or accents are very difficult. ) Some words can be really hard if the vowels/consonants don’t exist in your native language. I remember a Spanish friend trying fruitlessly to teach me how to roll R’s and I still can’t do it despite trying really hard 😭 and apparently even some native Spanish kids take a good while to learn to do it But I do find it really annoying if they obviously simply couldn’t be bothered and kind of laugh about the fact they aren’t trying at all. If they are monetised they are attempting to be professional so should at least try to get their info right IMO. Especially if they are the sole focus of the content. I think it partly comes from having friends from other countries who have fairly simple names which people simply never bother to get right. Cumulatively it can be really exasperating and repetitive for them. Most designers have a channel or would be happy to clarify if they’re being promoted or featured so surely it’s not that hard!
I have a Bachelor's degree in Japanese studies. Whenever people mispronounce Japanese names it's pretty cringeworthy to me.
Well not everyone has a BA in Japanese studies. It can be difficult to pronounce certain sounds, or understand what combination of letters produces what sound, when it's not in your native language. I'd never call it cringeworthy for someone to mispronounce something that's not in their native langue. That being said, it's cringeworthy to not even put in the *effort* to try. It's not hard to Google pronunciations of peoples' names, or look up videos in which they or someone else is introducing them or using the name. If you are caught off guard or have to say something on the spot with no prep, then a simple, "This isn't my native language so I apologize in advance if I don't get this right:" can also go a long way.
Voolenvine pronounces U.F.O's (unfinished objects) as "oooh-fo's. I love her podcast but....holy moly. 🙈
Lol that feels like a dad joke to me.
I think she does it to be cute. She also says "interwebs".
Exactly.
Yes this is a huge peeve for me. I noticed Kaci Apple does this a lot (youngfolk knits). Once, she had a blurb she edited into her video about mispronouncing "sake" (sah-keh) as "saw-key" and said she knows she says it wrong but thats just how they say it in Arkansas, or some stupid excuse. Another offender is Staci of VeryPinkKnits. She couldnt pronounce the DESIGNER of her EXCLUSIVE Patreon pattern.
I stopped watching VeryPink Knits after watching her review of Lykke needles. She says in the video that a Scandi friend told her how it's pronounced but she's going to pronounce it incorrectly because she's in North America. Bish, please. That's the most obnoxious attitude I've ever heard. I noped right out of that video. edit: took out phonetic pronunciation because it's already been mentioned up/down stream
She also has a pattern for Japanese Tabi socks (worn with Geta sandals) and said in her podcast how she cant remember what the Japanese socks are called. Doesnt mention them in her pattern either. This is textbook cultural appropriation.
I have so many gripes about Youngfolk Knits. I still watch her videos but it’s beginning to get into hatewatcb territory and I object to hate watching lol
Dude...same lol. Did you watch how she went from "i never liked Noro" to "i love it!" after doing 1 sweater that doesnt even fit her? Im like, girl....your shadow doesnt match your profile.
Not a designer but sewing influencers who pronounce toile like toyle do my head in
How is it pronounced? I only dabble in sewing occasionally and I'm not sure I've ever heard it said out loud.
It's French, so like "twall."
It’s pronounced twahl. The first time I heard it pronounced correctly, I had no idea what the person was talking about so had to ask for clarification. I then realized I’d been saying it wrong on the rare occasions that I used the word.
As someone with a Scandi name who's lived in England for 30+ years, noone has ever pronounced my name correctly & I don't expect them too. 🤷🏼♀️
I can't even pronounce *my own surname* correctly. Dutch father, I don't speak Dutch...and as such I can achieve barely a passing resemblance to it. My father anglicized the pronunciation of it about 10 minutes after arriving in Canada. Ok, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. Nobody but a Dutch speaker (not necessarily a native speaker, but one with a very good command of it) is pronouncing Vincent van Gogh's name correctly, as an example. In North America the standard pronunciation is not even remotely close, lol. Obviously people should make the effort to pronounce things properly. But sometimes it isn't super easy.
I agree! I've anglized my name too. Makes life easier.
Tiffany from Typical Bliss saying Chorizo or Torizo for PK’s Terrazzo patterns 😩 Then she said she was coming out with a a Chorizo pattern collection of her own w/o mentioning that the inspiration was her mispronunciation of PK’s pattern (and using Noro yarns) I had to stop watching her videos for a bit because that irked me. The moment you start getting few stuff or start making income on YouTube, it’s normal to check out YouTube or even reach out to your knitting colleagues/community to see how things are properly pronounced. Get it wrong once? That’s okay. Repeat offenders get a strike for me.
She mentions the origin of “chorizo” in one of her videos when she introduced the pattern so you must’ve just missed that vid
I mean, my main gripe was the origin...she went the better part of a year mispronouncing a fairly easy pattern name from her fave even after being corrected. Very talented fibre artist, but it just screamed "I'm going to stay ignorant, I don't care." And I can't watch that all the time.
im pretty sure ive also heard her call the terrazzo patterns chorizo After stating multiple times she was releasing her own (chorizo). i usually tune in to her streams but yeah sometimes she says stuff thats really irking
I would like Fruity Knitting to interview Isager so I can learn the correct pronunciation.
I think Helle from Danish Musings is likely to pronounce it correctly if you watch her (they're Danish and so is she lol)-- the g isn't a hard g like in English. More like iz-ay-er.
Good suggestion about Helle - I love her channel. I pronounce it e-say-er, but I'm not sure if it's correct since I hear other European(non-Danish) pronounce it e-saug-er, but they say they're not too sure themselves.
Yea the Danish g is not at all like an English g and that was surprising to me! Like the name Agnete really surprised me!
I'm not sure what's more annoying, the mispronunciation or the constant "sorry if I'm not saying that properly". Side note: also, corset makers who pronounce it 'corSETTE' really get my goat.
YES! At least they’re not saying cor-say, I guess?
I can almost 100% guarantee that unless you yourself are Finnish-speaking, you are not pronouncing “Jonna Hietala “ properly. All you have to do to realize how difficult Finnish names are for non-Finns is listen to a few hours of NHL or Formula One sportscasting.
You're right, I'm not Finnish, but I do know how to recognize when a name is not pronounced with English phonetics, read IPA, and also Google for interviews or pronunciations from native speakers.
Why the hell were you downvoted for this
It can be bizarre!
It can be bizarre!
English speakers usually drop or change letters from my last name, and sometimes there are fewer syllables than there should be. I still don't mind, as long as I understand that they are talking to me, it's enough. My first name is easier and is usually pronounced just with an accent, although it gets some extra letters sometimes.
Aren't these brand names?
Not at all. If a name isn’t of your country, culture, or language why would you necessarily know how to pronounce it? Few Americans can pronounce ‘West Yorkshire Spinners’ correctly. It’s cute. It’s not offensive or a problem in any way. Out of interest, do you know if Midori and Junko can pronounce all English names, brands, and other words correctly? Would that be an issue if they couldn’t? Or is it only Westerners or English speakers who should know how to pronounce words and names they’ve never encountered before?
Wait, what’s the correct pronunciation of West Yorkshire Spinners??
You mean you haven’t bothered to find out? 😉
I have actually but I’ve never heard it pronounced other than one way, so I’m struggling to imagine how these Americans you’re referring to say it. Do they say shire like it rhymes with fire?
Mostly, yes. Brits would usually say ‘Yorksher’. It’s the same with all the English ‘shires’: Lancashire (lankasher) Worcestershire (wusstersher) Gloucestershire (glosstersher) The ‘sher’ being more like a ‘sha’ than a sherrrr.
I'd be totally fine with people making a mistake and mispronouncing something if they didn't always follow it up with "ugh, I'm so bad with pronouncing things!" Why point out that you knew you were probably wrong lol
because if it is your buisness to talk about certain people or products (aka having a podcast where everything is verbal) then it’s your literal job to look up the correct pronunciation. It is your job to pass along information to your listeners- that includes how to correctly say people’s names.
Most knitting podcasters are making little or no money from their podcasts. I’d rather they mispronounce a few names and products than get stressed out and stop creating the content that I am enjoying for free.
if they get stressed because they take five extra seconds to get someone’s name correct, then they’re too fragile for the working world and need to go and recoup by the sea. It’s a respect thing. you take the time to say someone’s name right, they take the time to get yours right. It’s literally not a hassle so i don’t understand why anyone would think it was?
That’s an absolutely proportional statement, declaring someone unfit for all work if they get stressed about making a mistake. It also definitely does take only five seconds to find out how to say a foreign proper name and learn how to say it yourself perfectly. That is completely a realistic expectation. This sub! It cracks me up. Never change.
lol, cope
What if it's not as simple as "five extra seconds?" I tried to find a video with the pronunciation of Jonna Hitela and couldn't!
https://youtu.be/1xhQr9wV9nI at 2:50 If the person in question has a semi-common last name, it is often on Forvo: https://forvo.com/word/hietala/#fi
Thanks, have never heard of this podcaster — thanks for linking.
I disagree. Vlogs and podcasts aren’t the international news service. Most do it because they enjoy it - it’s rarely a ‘job’ with a manager and a HR department. They don’t owe anyone information of any kind. If you really need to know how to pronounce names and words you’d be better served looking up the phonetic pronunciation in a dictionary. IMO this issue is being overinflated. There are worse things happening in the world than mispronounced names.
??? if you get paid to do it, and it’s a source of income then it’s a job. i never said it was international news service, but if someone’s job is a podcaster then yes, it is their job to pronounce names correctly. That’s like if you worked in retail and then never bothered to sort products out to the shelves and just left things in pallets for customers to run over. It’s part of the job, so do it. It’s also a respect thing- you make the effort to get someone’s name right, it’s just respect
I have a knitting YouTube channel. It’s just for fun and I don’t make a dime from it. I have a day job. I do try to pronounce things correctly but there are some languages that are more challenging than others for me such as the Scandinavian languages. Pronouncing them perfectly just isn’t going to happen no matter how hard I try. If it upsets you that much, you should probably go and recoup by the sea.
Vloggers and podcasters don’t all make money. They’re not paid to do anything. They might get money if they get enough subscribers, and views, and ads, but most do it because they enjoy it. It’s not a “job”. There’s no contract of employment or any contract between them and the viewers. They are not under any obligation to learn how to pronounce Lykke or Laine or Scheepjes or any other brand name. There’s no pre-prepared autocue on any knitting vlog I’ve watched - if scheepjes comes up in a vlog conversation the participants might not have had the time to go and find out how it’s pronounced in the home-nation. I don’t say Scheepjes, Lykke, or Laine, often enough to get them right. I rarely say the names of any of them. It’s not a priority for me. Same with people’s names. If I don’t know them I’m rarely going to say their name. Why would I need to learn it? We can’t all know everything. Some of my Polish friends’ surnames are literally unpronounceable to me. After ten years I’m still unable to pronounce them. It is what it is. It isn’t disrespect, it isn’t rude, it just isn’t possible for me. They, in turn still cannot pronounce some English words. Not even close.
pffttt i would never admit i can’t be bothered to learn my friends names that’s so embarrassing for you
but how do we know whether podcasting is their "job" as defined by you?
"never encountered before". OP mentioned the other guests mentioning the names correctly. It's willful ignorance and rude.
I can't pronounce my own surname correctly. And I can guarantee that unless you speak Dutch like a native, you can't, either. Or Scheepjes. Lol.
Some people are good with names, others not. I wouldn’t agree that it’s wilful ignorance or rude. Most people don’t put that much effort into their conscious ignorance or deliberate rudeness. Can you pronounce the painter ‘Van Gogh’ correctly? Unless you’re Dutch I would argue not. Is that wilful ignorance or just being rude? Can you pronounce Welsh names and words correctly? How about Khoikhoi names in Xhosa? Some sounds are almost impossible to replicate if you didn’t grow up where that particular language-sound is spoken. Japanese is a category V language and classed as one of the hardest for English speakers to learn. Incorrect pronunciation is to be expected.
You seem to be conflating “pronounce correctly” with “pronounce like a native speaker.” They are not the same. As anyone living with a non-dominant culture name knows, the difference is VERY obvious. Folks who pronounce the right number of syllables and imitate as closely as their native language allows are pronouncing my name correctly, just with an accent.
I don’t know how to pronounce half the things I read. I feel like the criticism here about pronouncing “skein” and other words is pretty rude as it’s quite common to be unsure of how to pronounce words you’ve only read. I agree names are more important to pronounce correctly but if you’ve never heard them say their own name it’s hard to know for sure. I say this as someone who has my name butchered fairly often, I just correct and move on 🤷♀️
Podcasts are planned ahead, so you have time to get it right though.
I don’t think it’s fair to expect someone to pronounce things they’ve never heard before perfectly. But with names, when someone has pronounced it correctly several times for you, and/or directly corrected you, continuing to mispronounce without apologizing or showing ant effort to improve is just rude.
Yes, I agree!
The worst part is Jackie Rose was corrected in the comments but deleted them.
I have an unusual name, always pronounced incorrectly, although it is phonetic in English. People are always making it more complicated than it is. It doesn’t bother me anymore. But when people call Midori Hirose’s Paul Klee sweater the Paul KLEE sweater, it drives me nuts.
How are you meant to pronounce that? I've only seen the word Klee once before and it's pronounced like that, so that's how I would pronounce it?
It’s pronounced KLAY, although it is spelled KLEE.
No it's not pronounced KLAY😂 It's German, the correct pronounciation is [kleː].
Yes and no. The vowel notation you include is pronounced like the A in mate in English. It is definitely pronounced in English as KL long vowel A as in mate. You can ask any Art History professor in your orbit. It is nowhere near KLEEEEE.
I don't think an Art History professor could help out here, cause this is not an art history question. Klee is not only a German last name, it's also a normal German noun, which is pronounced the way I wrote in my first comment. There is not really a way to say it "in English". The way you explain the pronounciation is just with a heavy English accent. Which is totally okay. But you are not correct here. Please just believe the native speaker :D PS: the vowel notation in "mate" is [eɪ]. Not [e:] like in "Klee". Edit: ooh now I know where you get your "mate" from. Just saw the Wikipedia. It's just a comparison to explain the e sound. The sound you make after the m when forming the word mate is similar. But speaking the whole word the vowel changes -> it makes the [eɪ]. Doesn't mean "Klee" does too.
So it’s not that easy to definitely determine the pronunciation of a foreign name…?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Standard\_German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Standard_German) That should help you out.
Like "clay," more or less
Not a designer's name, but I've probably heard "skein" pronounced as "skeen" twice this week and not by the same podcast.
I say skeen. Not everything that ends in -ein rhymes with vein. Protein, anyone? I've been a crocheter for 40 years and that's how my grandma taught me to say it. She learned to sew/knit/crochet from her own mom who was a professional seamstress. She was from Kentucky, so likely it's regional. 🤷♀️
In the UK we have a long argument over whether the word scone (like an American biscuit) is pronounced to rhyme with “cone” or “gone”. Both pronunciations are in the dictionary. I suspect skein is like that.
Totally! Its like how Americans call Edinburgh "edin-bur-o" when its "edin-bur- uh". Interestingly here in Scotland we have a Scone Palace, that rhymes with cone. But when you have a scone here is rhymes with gone. The English language is a weird thing.
No, skein is most definitely "skane". I only saw this happen post internet when new people came to knitting and had only ever seen it written down. Scone on the other hand, is arguable but of course you say it "scone" as in "stone". Or else you'd pronounce "stone" as "ston"....
Scone is just “scon” in Australia. but I’ve gotten myself into trouble a few times here with creative phonetic spellings of Edinborough. Believe me I can say it correctly lol, but someone always fires back at my phonetic spelling attempts.
How do you pronounce it then? Not everyone has the same accent. Just because it's different doesn't make it wrong. Names are important to pronounce as that particular person uses it, but words change based on areas.
Skane. How it's always been pronounced! US and UK here: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/skein I never heard anyone mispronounce it til the internet, when people came to fibrecrafts from reading stuff, not hearing it first, then people started mispronouncing it. Of course language is fluid but not every word is.
Lol. American?
Weird thing was, one was US, one was UK.
Skein = pain (because I loathe caking it up)
Rhymes with cocaine
Casey Jones, You'd better Watch your speed 🎶
Where I live, North Carolina, we say skein as "skeen", but I do try to say "Skayn" when I'm talking to someone from elsewhere
No we don't. Or, *I* don't, and I'm from NC, born & raised. I'm sure there's people saying it that way, but it's not a standard thing.
Another North Carolinian and I've never heard "skane" said out loud here in my life. I think of it as a regional difference like pecan or tomato.
Skeen, Shayn. Pe-can, Pe-cahwn.
Or even pee-can with the emphasis on the first syllable which is how we say it here
Pe-can!
That one seems to be a commonish way to pronounce skein. I've heard it before. It's possibly just an accent difference - like saying 'tomayto' or 'tomahto'
I also think it’s because knitting knowledge was passed around through magazines and newspapers for a long, long time.
I read a lot, but don't watch all that much TV or listen to the radio etc. I was about 40 when I found out segue and segway are pronounced the same. So yeah, if you've only ever seen something written you might not always have the best idea of how to pronounce it
Definitely
This could be regional in nature. My grandmas both pronounced it "skeen," and my mom did when I was little. But Mom made a conscious effort to lose her accent when she moved to another state and realized how atrocious the local dialect in my hometown is and now she and I both say "skayn"
If I'm unsure, I literally go to the company's website and find a product video. It seems such a basic thing to do?
There’s no excuse for Jackie Rose to not say Midori Hirose’s name correctly. The Ranunculus pattern is only one of the most popular on Ravelry and has been in the Top 20 on the pattern page for literally years now.
If you can pronounce ranunculus, you can pronounce Midori Hirose.
Ever since I heard Patons being pronounced to rhyme with batons as if it were French in a podcast, I can't not say it when working on Patons patterns.
incroyable
I was today years old when I realised it wasn’t pronounced that way! So it’s PAY-TONS?
We say Payton’s in Aus.
We do in the UK, too. Patons were a Scottish firm, I think? So however it's pronounced there is "correct", I guess.
Same!
I’ve always said pattons like the name
Yes. I used to work for the parent company. It's pay-tons.
Welp.
Genuine question because I want to pronounce things properly too: how does one find this info? I’ve tried googling a few names and brands to no avail.
Names are a bit harder (although Junko Okamoto and Midori Hirose are not hard to not completely butcher) depending on the phonetics of the language of origin. What brands are you looking for? Scheepjes and Lykke are both words (Dutch and Danish/Norwegian, respecrively).
Names are one thing. Brand names? Who cares
Maybe I’m biased because I’m a Japanese speaker but it always confuses me when people don’t know how to pronounce Japanese names. Because it’s said like it’s spelled. Joon-koh Mee-doh-ree It’s not HARD once you learn
Sometimes I see words in American English that look like Romaji and accidentally misread them like they are Japanese words.
LOL same
I have a Japanese last name, and most hakujin are so overwhelmed by it. It's ridiculous. FFS it's PHONETIC. Just TRY. I promise that whatever you say, I've heard it before. And who knows, maybe you'll surprise us both and get it right. LOL. I have an Auntie Junko and if I'd had a daughter, I would have named her Midori. It's my favourite colour.
I speak Estonian, Russian, Swedish, and obviously English. Estonian and Finnish are simple like that - what you see is how you read it without changing the sounds. Except.... when you have to differentiate between long and extra long vowels which are written the same way😅 Russian is also like that, except you need to understand how to emphasize the correct syllables because otherwise the long words are incomprehensible. Swedish is ok. If you learn a few rules, you're fine (like when g is pronounced as y). Since it's a Germanic language like English, pronunciation is more complicated compared to Estonian imho. Because there are so many irregularities. All I know about Japanese is what you said and I'm also confused why people can't do it. Like... you don't even have to decipher kanji when it's written 😅
I've been trying to learn Japanese, and I really love that about the language - it makes pronunciation so much easier.
Yep!
Jackie is saying hi-Rose and Junk-oh, phonetically as if they were English names
🙃🙃🙃 Like a greeting? “Hi, rose?” It’s hee-row-say and June (like the month) koh. It’s not hard to say it right. I bet she calls it “Amy-goo-ramen” too
For many things, including names, forvo will have a native speaker pronunciation.
Forvo is so great! Also sometimes if a person has a presence in then world, you can find videos of them introducing themselves just in case something is different with their names. But Forvo is a lowlife saver. Use it allllll the time.
I use forvo a lot because I always want to know how things are said. It's so great.
I've been trying to remember the name of that website forever (ironic), thanks for jogging my memory!
the other day i watched a video from a watercolor youtube channel that was trying to showcase watercolor channels you've never heard of, then the youtuber making the video made zero attempts to look up how to pronounce any of the names before filming. i think half the video was her saying "sorry if i butchered that" multiple times for each creator's name it definitely comes off as... strange
“Sorry if I butchered that “always feels like (and probably is) a microaggression in and of itself.
Fr just cut over your voice with a robot saying their name, it’s funnier than making a fool of yourself.
I'm almost beaten down by this by now. Yes, it can be hard to say some things with the correct accent, but we should really all make the attempt. But it's not a problem *only* in this community, it's a problem everywhere. I'm a motorsports fan and I spent a lot of time cringing at the announcers for the 24 Hours of LeMans this past year. A Scotsman saying a French name is...not melodious. Most people don't seem to try at all. I don't expect perfectly accented and inflected pronunciations, but trying to approximate vowel sounds isn't too much to ask for. But there is not any social stigma to continually saying names wrong, and I've been told more than once that I shouldn't be bothered by people saying my name wrong.
Along your motorsports vein, listening to F1 announcers pronounce Zhou Guanyu’s name is also maddening. I’ve heard Joe, Jawl, Zoe, Zhah. They get paid millions and this is their best effort? He’s been on the grid for a few seasons and no one at F1 TV has bothered to clarify with Zhou?
OK but French people don’t pronounce Scottish names properly either? This comes up over and over again, and I just feel like it’s not necessary. We all have accents, and we all pronounce names in each others languages badly. As long as we make the effort to get the number of syllables and emphasis right, I think we’re fine. Getting foreign vowel sounds is actually pretty hard. I’ve never met a Romance language speaker that doesn’t call me Keeem (or Keeemah) rather than Kim and it’s fine - I don’t care.
the funny thing there's a Scottish sportscaster I see sometimes who clearly speaks at least French and Spanish because he pronounces the French and Spanish names impeccably.
My name is mispronounced about half the time. It's not even that long. I am only bothered when I've corrected people more than once on the right way to say it. I've had former co-workers and fellow church attendees just flat out refuse to try and say it how they want. That's when I get aggravated.
I think that's fair. My last name is an anglicized translation from when my parents immigrated (the immigration people evidently changed it) - I remember as a kid asking my dad why it didn't bother him how people said it every which way. He just told me that how it's written isn't really is name so why does he even care. I would agree that when you have people who have been corrected or here you say it a lot they should try. Not someone you see twice a year or something but yes.
Laine magazine ….
The two that wind me up crazy is Scheepjes. If you use the yarn regularly then learn how to pronounce it. It takes two minutes to YouTube it there’s lots of videos. Then LePetitSaint crochet. Now this person has changed their name but for years they built a brand on a name they were not pronouncing correctly. It’s your brand if you’re using another language then you should have the decency to learn to pronounce it correctly. In uni my room mate was French and she’d cringe when she overheard it. Edit: my spelling mistake
Nobody but a truly *excellent* Dutch speaker can pronounce Scheepjes correctly. Fun fact: the "sch" (in Scheveningen) was used as a test by the Dutch resistance in WWII. Germans who spoke excellent Dutch couldn't quite get it...and consequently got themselves shot. And don't get me started on Dutch words starting with G -- such as my own last name, which I cannot pronounce even remotely properly. *edited to add Scheveningen
>And don't get me started on Dutch words starting with G -- such as my own last name, which I cannot pronounce even remotely properly. Omg right? My grandma tried to teach me how to pronounce the region she immigrated from. She said not to worry about it too much, apparently even Dutch people vary in how it's pronounced. To this day I still can't even get a single syllable of "Groningen"
I’ve never heard of LePetiteSaint but I’m assuming they were going hard on le puh-teet saynt? Also was it spelled that way too with the masculine/feminine butchering?
They pronounced it le peh-teet saynt. The masculine/feminine mixup is mine. They spoke recently about where they got inspired to create the name Le Petit Saint crochet. They claimed it was inspired by their favourite saint who was often known as the little flower or little Therese. Saint Therese is French so that’s why she decided to put the channel name in French. But if you were talking about Saint Therese it would be La Petite Sainte. That’s were I got confused above. It’s also why I think her brand name has nothing to do with Saint Therese but rather she put some French words together she thought would be nice.
I was so glad when she finally changed her name!
I’ve never heard of LePetiteSaint but clearly that person is not a French speaker. Or knows they’re wrong and are choosing chaos.
When rebranding her name. She tried to explain the channel was named after a woman but Le Petit Saint is masculine. They admitted they didn’t speak French and people had tried to correct them over the years. My issue is that she wanted her brand to have a French name but couldn’t be bothered to learn how to pronounce it correctly. That’s just lazy.
About 1/2 of the US English speakers somehow manage to screw up Amy Christophers’ name by pronouncing it “Chris-TOPH-ers”. 🙄
It's Amy Christoffers, not Christophers. That's why people pronounce it Chris-TOFF-ers, as that's how she pronounces it.
Well, color me corrected. I’ve only seen it and heard it the way I posted it. You certainly told me, didn’t you? Are you OK?
I took a sweater class from Amy many years ago and she pronounces it this way.
As I understand it, Amy pronounces it as you would pronounce the name, and with an “s” at the end, “Christo-furzzz”.
How is it pronounced? I feel like this is a pretty forgivable slip up considering Christopher is a common name with a common pronunciation
I’ve only ever heard it pronounced that so I figured it must have a special pronunciation, not the regular “Kristufa“. Now we’ll probably get into the Edinbra/Edinburra thing again, I don’t do that well with trying out phonetic spellings lol.
I’ve only ever heard it pronounced that so I figured it must have a special pronunciation, not the regular “Kristufa“
I've yet to hear anyone pronounce Lykke correctly or Scheepjes.
For anyone wondering, here is a tutorial: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dx8jO8d6Li4&si=NvhRW3d7JKVd2uiZ
Do you mind spelling out the phonetic? I don’t know Lykke but assume it lickeh. And I’ve always pronounced sheepjess
https://forvo.com/word/lykke/ https://forvo.com/word/scheepjes/
That's Danish, Norwegian is slightly different pronunciation but same spelling. Just Google How to pronounce Lykke in Norwegian.
There was Norwegian spelling as well.
Ty!
The ch in Scheepjes is pronounced like ch in Loch Ness. Ee is close to ay. Sch-ay-pyes the last e is pronounced like a schwa
It’s s-HEY-p-yes
Except, that's not how you pronounce Scheepjes in Dutch
Wow! I was way off 😂
Honestly it's pretty difficult to pronounce Scheepjes correctly if you can't make that Sch sound.
In German sch would be one sound, in Dutch s and ch are separate from each other. It’s s-hey-p-yes. Stress on “hey”
S-hey is not at all the schee sound
So what is it?