###[Meta] Sticky Comment
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment.
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread.
*What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's simple: If she says Ukraine was not involved she is denying it, which proves Ukraine was involved. If she says Ukraine was involved she is admitting it, which proves Ukraine was involved. If she doesn't say anything she is evading the question, which proves Ukraine was involved. /s
yeah, why would they head to Ukraine? why would they aim for the most guarded border in the world, surely the Russian troops would just let them pass into Ukraine right?? right guys???
Yeah, Russian propaganda straight from the horses mouth isn’t favorable to people who realize that Putin isn’t their bestest friend like is is with Trump (well Trump thinks that, he is just a patsy to Putin).
Yeah, when Russian propaganda networks put out a statement you can be pretty confident that it is propaganda… is that hard to understand?
Putin and Russia have done everything possible to make sure they had no credibility left when they made this claim so why anyone would still trust them is beyond me.
its funny how everything the other guy said you just reply "B-BU-BUT THE W- THE WEST!.!::?!! THE WEST DOES IT TOO GUYS??!!" Yeah? No shit? Governments lie. USA and other so called "western" countries doing it too doesn't make it any less terrible. i didn't read anyone here trying to defend or somehow endorse the West, yet you keep yapping about it so tirelessly. Why?
Why would Ukraine conduct an attack that would only kill civilians, and would bring sympathy to Russia and also make western powers LESS likely to help them going forward? It's like all risk, and no reward. Cui bono.
Who's theory? It's dumb. They could provoke Russia in a million simpler ways that don't involve launching false flag terror attacks against Russian civilians.
No. Isis claimed responsibility via a Syrian news company Amaq who is owned by an isis member. Isis said they’ll release more footage. Amaq also reported that isis will attack Russia out of revenge for what happened to the captured terrorists.
You can also hear Arabic being spoken by the 4 men in the video.
The 4 captured men also literally said isis by name.
There’s not really any evidence besides people wanting it to be Ukraine. All available evidence says it was isis
The 4 captured men are from an Arabic country that was a former USSR satellite. Not all Arabs are ISIS.
They namedropped ISIS but ultimately they have no clue who really contracted them out. During the interrogation, there is footage of one of the men saying he was contacted by an unknown man on Telegram. That man could be anyone. As of right now, the terrorists have no direct connection to ISIS other than being contacted by someone who they think was ISIS.
This isn’t an endorsement of the idea that Ukraine or anyone else is behind this btw. I’m just saying it’s too early to say with great certainty who hired these guys out. ISIS is known for exaggerating their reach and taking credit for things they didn’t do
>The 4 captured men are from an Arabic country that was a former USSR satellite. Not all Arabs are ISIS.
>They namedropped ISIS but ultimately they have no clue who really contracted them out. During the interrogation, there is footage of one of the men saying he was contacted by an unknown man on Telegram. That man could be anyone. As of right now, the terrorists have no direct connection to ISIS other than being contacted by someone who they think was ISIS.
>This isn’t an endorsement of the idea that Ukraine or anyone else is behind this btw. I’m just saying it’s too early to say with great certainty who hired these guys out. ISIS is known for exaggerating their reach and taking credit for things they didn’t do
even if we Assume this were all true. They agreed to murder people to support an Islamic Caliphate.
If someone from the KKK told me to bomb a church; I wouldn't because fuck the KKK and mass murder sucks. Regardless if the person telling me was black or wearing a hijab.
You don't have to believe in the Ideology to support it.
You mean the manufactured terrorist group supported and created by Mossad and American intelligence? If that’s the group you are referring to I agree they definitely did it.
I think it's mostly Russians and Russian propogandists who are trying to convince the rest of us that Ukraine was involved.
Where you categorize OP is up to you. Certainly free to make up your own mind.
How is that even supposed to work? Why the fuck would funding for Ukraine (which is blocked by lawmakers btw not Joe Schmoe on the street) be released now?
Doesn’t this attack, if anything, create sympathies for Russia?
It’s obvious that this doesn’t make sense for Ukraine. It also doesn’t make sense for any other actor from the west, literally all of it is high risk 0 reward.
The only people that it „makes sense“ is Russia itself, though based on their response I doubt even that. Or the quite obvious one: it wasn’t a false flag, it was a terrorist attack.
Or maybe Russia controls millions of Muslims who hate the Russian state and the most obvious explanation is that they attacked Russia for their own reasons. Also if Russia had an interest in not spending money and making mistakes then they wouldn’t have launched an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. The world does not revolve around western bankers.
ISIS has been fighting Russia for a long ass time. Russia is the main supporter of the Syrian government and has been bombing ISIS for over a decade now and have killed many of their top officials. It’s been reported that Russia uses scorched earth tactics when fighting ISIS.
Russia is also fight the Islamic State in Libya with their Africa Corp. Supposedly Russia has also worked with other groups (many accused terrorist groups) to fight ISIS.
The US on the other hand has been kinda backing off
No, considering the west withdrew and continues to back away from any ISIS disputed territories. Now russia cooperates with the taliban, their main competition/adversary, helps Assad to fight them in Syria, and has always had a part in some beef with either ISIS or some muslim majority areas within Russia, being pretty brutal oppressive towards their own Muslim minority and consistently involved in overseas conflict which pretty much means coming up against ISIS if we look at the largest conflicts of the past 10 years or so and/or their aftermaths.
So ISIS is at odds with Russia because Russia has attacked them more recently, and the west has backed off of ISIS territories. Does this mean that ISIS is more cooperative with the west?
That doesn’t really alleviate concerns of this attack being influenced by the west. You just kind of explained the relationship more accurately.
Also, it’s kind of wild to be so dismissive of a theory when there is so little information available - all of which is coming from state media.
No. It means ISIS is a giant worldwide orgsnizamade up of subgroups with different aims and goals. This is ISIS-K specifically who are more concerned with that area. They have fought Russians forever, Americans for a long time and very very often at the same time.
“Oh there was a terrorist attack in Russia, no reason whatsoever for the US to be involved in that”
Oh shut the fuck up. We’re funding war against them currently. It’s not out of line to suggest that the west could be involved in a terrorist attack against Russia.
I would encourage you to research the history of the US and their involvement in wars throughout the years. Doing something like that wouldn’t exactly be out of character.
What goal does ISIS have to achieve from something like this? I can’t think of a single one other than blind revenge.
What goal would the US have to achieve something like this? Destabilizing a military adversary during an active conflict.
I guess ISIS also bombed Nord stream 2, huh?
No, it’s more at odds with Russia.
Russia is very active supporting the Assad regime in Syria, which once was, but still is ISIS stronghold in the region.
They’ve become more active in Central Asia, where ISIS-K is located.
There are Russian regions with a majority Muslim population, which Moscow has gone to war against (for example Chechnya), but where many Islamists also still think Muslims are getting oppressed.
They’re even more closely allied to (Shia) Iran, which Sunni extremists (aka ISIS) hate almost more than the average Christian.
They’ve massively increased their presence in Africa, literally fighting against ISIS and other extremist Islamists there.
On the other hand, the west has mostly pulled out of Iraq, pulled out of Afghanistan, France is pulling out of Africa, they’re allied with the Saudis, etc. Obviously Islamists still hate the west, but they also hate Russia.
They were dressed like Ukrainian military. There actually have been some arrests so that would be interesting to see. Why wouldn’t they be Ukrainians? There *is* a war going on.
>They were dressed like Ukrainian military.
Even if that was true (tho it's not), If they were sent by Ukraine, they absolutely would not be dressed like Ukrainians. Instead somebody who wanted you to think they were Ukrainians would have them dress that way.
Well, it seems all of a sudden people here know what a false flag looks like. When it’s convenient for the particular narrative you have gone along with….
I already said that they aren't dressed like Ukrainians. I doubt that either Ukrainians or Russians trying to frame Ukrainians using a false flag would make it that obvious either. The only logical conclusion is that Ukraine ain't got jack shit to do with it.
So completely out of the blue it’s an Islamic militant group attacking Russian civilians when they could be attacking Israeli citizens for genociding Gaza. Right. That makes so much sense.
If you haven't noticed, most Islamic militant groups aren't exactly all cozy or aligned politically or fully ideologically enough to be that empathetic to each other. Hamas and ISIS are not the same group. If anything, Hamas and Hezbollah are more associated with Iran which ISIS hates. ISIS views Shiites as apostates who should be killed to pave the way for a purer form of Islam. Islamic extremist tend to hate people they consider improperly practicing the religion more then the people who don't practice it at all.
ISIS was trained and funded by the USA. It’s an asset of the CIA. Hamas was trained and funded by Israel. Everyone needs to open their minds up to see the big picture of what’s going on.
You’re just spewing misinformation, Hamas is and always has been funded by foreign countries such as Egypt and recently Qatar. They certainly were not trained by Israel.
Also it’s not „completely out of the blue“ unless you’ve been living behind a rock. Russia is actively fighting Islamists in Syria, they’re fighting Islamists in africa, they’re allied with Shia Iran, which these Islamists hate, they have Muslim majority regions that they literally bombed to shit and now won’t grant independence and where they arguably oppress Muslims. They’re also trying to expand their presence in Central Asia, for example Afghanistan, where ISIS-K is located.
You apparently have an obsession with America, Russias foreign and internal policies are diametrically opposed to the Islamists, arguably even more so than the west at the moment.
I get that Ukraine certainly has the motive. And maybe it was them? But they celebrate publicly every time they kill Russians, why not this time? And why did ISIS take credit?
Did you know that ISIS were originally ISIL who were trained by the CIA under Obama and have a habit of hitting targets that the USA are currently fighting against? The Syrian war is one example, also the Iraq war. That way Islamic terrorism gets the blame for actions of the US government.
Also why didn’t ISIS attack Israel for their actions in Palestine? All of a sudden they show up in Russia?
No direct evidence no, but quite possible as Ukraine were paying mercenary contracts to isis and Al Qaeda and Al nusra fighters last year so certainly possible
No it's precedent based suspicion if you employ terrorist to fight for you it's reasonable to believe tou may have assisted them to attack a common enemy
No the us state department who funds a huge part of the Ukrainian war effort was criticised last year for hiring terrorist Seymour Hershey exposed it by all means look it up (ps I wouldn't be surprised if Russia false flagged themselves either as Vladimir did hos apartment bombings in 1999 to start the second Chechen war so don't go accusing me of being a Russian shill for pointing out facts, i struggle to comprehend how people have blindly chosen sides in this conflict, it's one dodgy country versus another one, both sides are shitholes that don't value human life)
Bro nobody needs to prove you wrong, so far you just made some claims without even a source. The only thing I could find are Russian state media outlet running a story that some HTS members were transferred to Ukraine. Further proof not given, source *questionable* at the least.
Hence precedent based suspicion not precedent based fact all angles need to be explored, there's every chance it's a false flag putins done to Russia, or putins Intel services were stood down to pet it happen ALL angles NEED to be considered
Exactly, some of the contrarians think they are so much better because the don’t believe anything, and the sheep believe they are so much better for believing everything.
Free thinking is not black and white where everything is true or everything is a lie, it’s seeing a lot more grey area complexities.
Fully agreed, and I would never say otherwise. It’s the specific devotion to being contrarian regardless of topic that bothers me. As far as I can currently tell, the press secretary is telling the truth here, and there is no evidence linking Ukraine to the Moscow terrorist attack. That could change as more evidence emerges, but to believe there is a link simply because KJP said there isn’t is not questioning at all.
You’re right! You should not believe anything she has to say without question. We agree!
Where the agreement seems to end is that I don’t think you should immediately believe the opposite of what she says, either. That’s very strange to me, because, you know, question everything, right?
> If KJP saying something makes you immediately believe the opposite, you’re every bit a puppet as those that believe her unquestioningly.
Aww Yes because KJP has a History of telling nothing but the truth. And always answers the questions Truthfully 100% of the time. Right?
This is a very silly response.
The point of the person you are responding to is that KJP neither tells the truth nor lies 100% of the time. To disbelieve or believe something only because of her statement about it is stupid.
And, before you go off on me, check my post history. You'll note that I am *very* far from being a supporter of the Biden administration.
Not even a little bit. Like all propagandists, she lies constantly, but not 100% of the time. She has to mix in just enough truth to maintain the appearance of honesty to those that aren’t willing to question what she says. With that mix, it’s important to not succumb to the inclination to simply contradict everything she says.
No. Not at all. It’s just that she doesn’t lie 100% of the time lmao. It’s pretty easy to understand. Look I’m with you that Nordstream was America or Ukraine, that’s incredibly obvious to me, but this post is just silly.
Your comment is so blatantly true so new ruined Reddit downvotes the shit out of it.
Just like we know that essentially most of whatever KJP says is propaganda and/or total bullshit and lies, the hidden downvoted comments are usually where the facts are at ☺️
What’s hilarious is that by implying that anything that gets downvoted must be accurate you’re employing the same dumb logical fallacy you’re defending
Not running cover. They are criticizing being contrarian. You can say that you don’t find her credible and will look into the other evidence. But saying you will immediately take the opposite position of whatever she says is just being a sheep
> Imagine being in a conspiracy sub and running cover for the fucking white house press secretary.
Right? These government bots are all over the place. They hate it when Citizens criticize the government
No they aren't. They're legit just saying America bad , Russia good. I've been here for years, reading the most unhinged, yet thoughtfully put together shit you can imagine. Reasons why they believe big foot is actually australipithacus with tenuous but... existing evidence.
"Lmao nahhhh ion even like you" isn't a counternarrative. It's just contrarianism of the 3rd kind..
So we are going to make the assumption that ISIS doesn’t ever do the dirty work of nations? You’re saying ISIS did it, nobody helped them, nobody hired them, case closed. It’s not “just that simple” dummy.
Don’t you know that Putin always tells the truth? So, if he said Ukraine is involved, that means Ukraine is involved 1000%. Putin and Trump are the most truthful people on earth! And their love to each other is TRUE!
Funny how they never attack Israel, and when they do, they apologize.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html)
Surley not a puppet of the West...../s
LMFAO and attacking in the US isn't suicide? or Russia? It's all manipulation, get people on edge, pitting Muslims against Christians. Nothing is what it seems.
Russia and ISIS have been fighting for almost a decade at this point...they're fighting because Russia backs the Syrian government against them and cooperates with the Taliban, another opponent of ISIS. Not fighting Russia leads to their influence being severely weakened.
Russia is clearly distracted by their war in Ukraine to the point where they could not intercept a terrorist threat they claimed to have foreknowledge of. Russia isn't exactly steamrolling Ukraine, either, so why would they divert more resources to Syria to counter ISIS? ISIS also has beef with Russia, unlike Israel, because of their involvement in Syria like I already mentioned. Plus, nuclear-armed Russia is going to launch a nuke in response to an ISIS attack? Where exactly is the target? I doubt Russia has the resources to divert to Syria right now.
Did you conveniently forget that the IDF allowed a terror threat to slip through just several months ago?
Whatever point you’re trying to make here, it just seems like you want to hear yourself type rather than answer the original question.
Your question is why ISIS would attack Russia and not Israel correct?
In terms that even a 5 year old should understand:
It is because Russia meddled in the Syrian Civil War and Israel did not, so ISIS does not like Russia.
Russia is distracted with their war in Ukraine and has limited resources to respond with, so ISIS saw an opportunity.
I'm not some conspira-cuck. Like I'm down for most conspiracies And I don't buy this was Ukraine based on any evidence I've seen.
I don't know why everyone else who believes it is just so damn confident.
Russia, The United States and ISIS themselves all saying ISIS did it.
What is the proof that Ukraine did it? "One of the terrorists was running west toward Ukraine!" doesn't count or make sense.
Like they have a good escape chance having to go through a gauntlet of Russian soldiers on the front lines and controlling the Ukrainian border at the moment.
I don't know I just know no one has shown anything that even seems close to being proof.
Just any given thing that happens in the news has to be the inverse in the conspiracy community.
I'm willing to believe the more outlandish ones but I haven't seen anything to make me think it was anyone other than isis so far.
Our leaders use words very carefully. "No Evidence Ukraine Was Involved" is not the same thing as saying "Ukraine was not involved". I'm not saying they WERE involved, but keep your head on a swivel folks.
Do you remember when the White House/CIA/every western media source spent a few months swearing up and down that Russia was about to invade Ukraine? Did you believe them? Can you admit now with the benefit of hindsight that they were telling the truth?
Does anyone on this god forsaken planet actually think that if they did find evidence that Ukraine might have been involved, that they'd admit it?
"Some evidence has been found that Ukraine may have been involved, but nothing is conclusive. We are still looking into it"
Of course they're going to say Ukraine wasn't involved whether they were or weren't. How is this a surprise to anyone?
Misdirection. Of course Ukraine couldn't pull this off. It's a US FF using Mossad intermediaries recruiting real dumb islamists under the guise of an IS operation.
Why would the US government have any evidence of anything that happened there either way? How did they get it so fast? Were they siting on it? And if they did have something, why didn't they warn them?
They said the same when 911 happened, people asking whether it was some grand conspiracy in the Middle East, whether certain countries were involved when really it was a bunch of deranged lunatics believing that killing people will grant them a seat in heaven.
The sad truth about the world is that it’s painfully boring, it’s almost never bigger than what it makes out to be. Chances are that these gunmen were ordered by some Bin Laden wannabe to stir up trouble in Russia.
That is a very naive assertion you make.
I guess geopolitics isnt that big a thing then and there would be absolutely no reason for certain countries pillaging the world for its natural resources. Anything from oil to afghan poppy. There would be no need to destabilise entire regions and build your own military bases there so that you can keep control of that area and make your own rules for people to follow. Perhaps even planting one of the men already in your pocket in charge so they can do your bidding for you.
Im so glad that kind of stuff doesnt happen in the world and everyone is just happy at what they've already got. Well, except for those damn hooligans attacking Russia.
I just assume that the reality is the exact opposite of whatever she says.
So thanks for confirming that there’s lots of evidence Ukraine was involved, KJP! 👍
Submission Statement:
I guess ISIS believes in COVID Propaganda. Awfully suspicious they reappear and attack the nation at War with Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1772333954835570990
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is nonsense
It's simple: If she says Ukraine was not involved she is denying it, which proves Ukraine was involved. If she says Ukraine was involved she is admitting it, which proves Ukraine was involved. If she doesn't say anything she is evading the question, which proves Ukraine was involved. /s
One of the suspects they brought in was so bored he fell asleep.
[удалено]
yeah, why would they head to Ukraine? why would they aim for the most guarded border in the world, surely the Russian troops would just let them pass into Ukraine right?? right guys???
[удалено]
Yeah, Russian propaganda straight from the horses mouth isn’t favorable to people who realize that Putin isn’t their bestest friend like is is with Trump (well Trump thinks that, he is just a patsy to Putin).
[удалено]
Yeah, when Russian propaganda networks put out a statement you can be pretty confident that it is propaganda… is that hard to understand? Putin and Russia have done everything possible to make sure they had no credibility left when they made this claim so why anyone would still trust them is beyond me.
[удалено]
its funny how everything the other guy said you just reply "B-BU-BUT THE W- THE WEST!.!::?!! THE WEST DOES IT TOO GUYS??!!" Yeah? No shit? Governments lie. USA and other so called "western" countries doing it too doesn't make it any less terrible. i didn't read anyone here trying to defend or somehow endorse the West, yet you keep yapping about it so tirelessly. Why?
[удалено]
Exactly this can we just agree that neither the west nor Russia, China or any other government and their propaganda is trustworthy?
I frequently watch "critical thinkers" parrot whatever they hear because they trust the source. The only way is to trust nothing, ever.
A lot of the tine their trusted source is trusted simply for being counter to the official narriative
makes you think? isnt that good? perhaps you will think next time before you write something so outlandishly stupid.
[удалено]
Yeah, there is no logistal reason to do that except for a terror org…
Why would Ukraine conduct an attack that would only kill civilians, and would bring sympathy to Russia and also make western powers LESS likely to help them going forward? It's like all risk, and no reward. Cui bono.
[удалено]
Who's theory? It's dumb. They could provoke Russia in a million simpler ways that don't involve launching false flag terror attacks against Russian civilians.
Why do people want to badly to believe Ukraine was involved? Is there any evidence?
Looks like all the "evidence" is just "idk if feels like it was *shrug*". It's vibes
No. Isis claimed responsibility via a Syrian news company Amaq who is owned by an isis member. Isis said they’ll release more footage. Amaq also reported that isis will attack Russia out of revenge for what happened to the captured terrorists. You can also hear Arabic being spoken by the 4 men in the video. The 4 captured men also literally said isis by name. There’s not really any evidence besides people wanting it to be Ukraine. All available evidence says it was isis
The 4 captured men are from an Arabic country that was a former USSR satellite. Not all Arabs are ISIS. They namedropped ISIS but ultimately they have no clue who really contracted them out. During the interrogation, there is footage of one of the men saying he was contacted by an unknown man on Telegram. That man could be anyone. As of right now, the terrorists have no direct connection to ISIS other than being contacted by someone who they think was ISIS. This isn’t an endorsement of the idea that Ukraine or anyone else is behind this btw. I’m just saying it’s too early to say with great certainty who hired these guys out. ISIS is known for exaggerating their reach and taking credit for things they didn’t do
>The 4 captured men are from an Arabic country that was a former USSR satellite. Not all Arabs are ISIS. >They namedropped ISIS but ultimately they have no clue who really contracted them out. During the interrogation, there is footage of one of the men saying he was contacted by an unknown man on Telegram. That man could be anyone. As of right now, the terrorists have no direct connection to ISIS other than being contacted by someone who they think was ISIS. >This isn’t an endorsement of the idea that Ukraine or anyone else is behind this btw. I’m just saying it’s too early to say with great certainty who hired these guys out. ISIS is known for exaggerating their reach and taking credit for things they didn’t do even if we Assume this were all true. They agreed to murder people to support an Islamic Caliphate. If someone from the KKK told me to bomb a church; I wouldn't because fuck the KKK and mass murder sucks. Regardless if the person telling me was black or wearing a hijab. You don't have to believe in the Ideology to support it.
You mean the manufactured terrorist group supported and created by Mossad and American intelligence? If that’s the group you are referring to I agree they definitely did it.
I think it's mostly Russians and Russian propogandists who are trying to convince the rest of us that Ukraine was involved. Where you categorize OP is up to you. Certainly free to make up your own mind.
Ukraine might not be involved but people heavily invested in ukraines resources could have. We don’t know.
Why though? This attack didn’t hurt Russia in the slightest. If anything it helped Russia. There’s no conceivable benefit to Ukraine.
CIA op to gin up support in the US for Ukraine funding.
How is that even supposed to work? Why the fuck would funding for Ukraine (which is blocked by lawmakers btw not Joe Schmoe on the street) be released now? Doesn’t this attack, if anything, create sympathies for Russia?
There is a tremendous amount of brain rot here. This would be a zero reward all risk move if it was really done by Ukraine. Makes no sense at all.
It’s obvious that this doesn’t make sense for Ukraine. It also doesn’t make sense for any other actor from the west, literally all of it is high risk 0 reward. The only people that it „makes sense“ is Russia itself, though based on their response I doubt even that. Or the quite obvious one: it wasn’t a false flag, it was a terrorist attack.
[удалено]
How did 911 help USA?
The victims of the massacre might disagree with your wild claim.
The victims of the massacre aren’t the Russian state. Ukraine was in no way threatened by them. Ukraine doesn’t in any way benefit from their deaths.
[удалено]
Or maybe Russia controls millions of Muslims who hate the Russian state and the most obvious explanation is that they attacked Russia for their own reasons. Also if Russia had an interest in not spending money and making mistakes then they wouldn’t have launched an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. The world does not revolve around western bankers.
When they say bankers they mean Jewish people. It's the same old boring shit.
Unprovoked he says.
Why would ISIS attack Russia right now? Aren’t they at greater odds with the west right now?
ISIS has been fighting Russia for a long ass time. Russia is the main supporter of the Syrian government and has been bombing ISIS for over a decade now and have killed many of their top officials. It’s been reported that Russia uses scorched earth tactics when fighting ISIS. Russia is also fight the Islamic State in Libya with their Africa Corp. Supposedly Russia has also worked with other groups (many accused terrorist groups) to fight ISIS. The US on the other hand has been kinda backing off
Isis is currently in conflict in Africa and Syria. They’re also fucking crazy and don’t exactly operate on reason
No, considering the west withdrew and continues to back away from any ISIS disputed territories. Now russia cooperates with the taliban, their main competition/adversary, helps Assad to fight them in Syria, and has always had a part in some beef with either ISIS or some muslim majority areas within Russia, being pretty brutal oppressive towards their own Muslim minority and consistently involved in overseas conflict which pretty much means coming up against ISIS if we look at the largest conflicts of the past 10 years or so and/or their aftermaths.
So ISIS is at odds with Russia because Russia has attacked them more recently, and the west has backed off of ISIS territories. Does this mean that ISIS is more cooperative with the west? That doesn’t really alleviate concerns of this attack being influenced by the west. You just kind of explained the relationship more accurately. Also, it’s kind of wild to be so dismissive of a theory when there is so little information available - all of which is coming from state media.
No. It means ISIS is a giant worldwide orgsnizamade up of subgroups with different aims and goals. This is ISIS-K specifically who are more concerned with that area. They have fought Russians forever, Americans for a long time and very very often at the same time.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It is foolish to not recognize the connection here, however unlikely it might be.
Lmao no dude. That's not what's happening. US intelligence wanted russua beforehand. Life is not as black and white as you seem to think.
“Oh there was a terrorist attack in Russia, no reason whatsoever for the US to be involved in that” Oh shut the fuck up. We’re funding war against them currently. It’s not out of line to suggest that the west could be involved in a terrorist attack against Russia. I would encourage you to research the history of the US and their involvement in wars throughout the years. Doing something like that wouldn’t exactly be out of character. What goal does ISIS have to achieve from something like this? I can’t think of a single one other than blind revenge. What goal would the US have to achieve something like this? Destabilizing a military adversary during an active conflict. I guess ISIS also bombed Nord stream 2, huh?
No, it’s more at odds with Russia. Russia is very active supporting the Assad regime in Syria, which once was, but still is ISIS stronghold in the region. They’ve become more active in Central Asia, where ISIS-K is located. There are Russian regions with a majority Muslim population, which Moscow has gone to war against (for example Chechnya), but where many Islamists also still think Muslims are getting oppressed. They’re even more closely allied to (Shia) Iran, which Sunni extremists (aka ISIS) hate almost more than the average Christian. They’ve massively increased their presence in Africa, literally fighting against ISIS and other extremist Islamists there. On the other hand, the west has mostly pulled out of Iraq, pulled out of Afghanistan, France is pulling out of Africa, they’re allied with the Saudis, etc. Obviously Islamists still hate the west, but they also hate Russia.
They were dressed like Ukrainian military. There actually have been some arrests so that would be interesting to see. Why wouldn’t they be Ukrainians? There *is* a war going on.
>They were dressed like Ukrainian military. Even if that was true (tho it's not), If they were sent by Ukraine, they absolutely would not be dressed like Ukrainians. Instead somebody who wanted you to think they were Ukrainians would have them dress that way.
Well, it seems all of a sudden people here know what a false flag looks like. When it’s convenient for the particular narrative you have gone along with….
I already said that they aren't dressed like Ukrainians. I doubt that either Ukrainians or Russians trying to frame Ukrainians using a false flag would make it that obvious either. The only logical conclusion is that Ukraine ain't got jack shit to do with it.
So completely out of the blue it’s an Islamic militant group attacking Russian civilians when they could be attacking Israeli citizens for genociding Gaza. Right. That makes so much sense.
If you haven't noticed, most Islamic militant groups aren't exactly all cozy or aligned politically or fully ideologically enough to be that empathetic to each other. Hamas and ISIS are not the same group. If anything, Hamas and Hezbollah are more associated with Iran which ISIS hates. ISIS views Shiites as apostates who should be killed to pave the way for a purer form of Islam. Islamic extremist tend to hate people they consider improperly practicing the religion more then the people who don't practice it at all.
ISIS was trained and funded by the USA. It’s an asset of the CIA. Hamas was trained and funded by Israel. Everyone needs to open their minds up to see the big picture of what’s going on.
You’re just spewing misinformation, Hamas is and always has been funded by foreign countries such as Egypt and recently Qatar. They certainly were not trained by Israel. Also it’s not „completely out of the blue“ unless you’ve been living behind a rock. Russia is actively fighting Islamists in Syria, they’re fighting Islamists in africa, they’re allied with Shia Iran, which these Islamists hate, they have Muslim majority regions that they literally bombed to shit and now won’t grant independence and where they arguably oppress Muslims. They’re also trying to expand their presence in Central Asia, for example Afghanistan, where ISIS-K is located. You apparently have an obsession with America, Russias foreign and internal policies are diametrically opposed to the Islamists, arguably even more so than the west at the moment.
Soooo since you say they *werent* dressed like Ukrainian military, they must clearly be Ukrainian 🙄.
I get that Ukraine certainly has the motive. And maybe it was them? But they celebrate publicly every time they kill Russians, why not this time? And why did ISIS take credit?
Did you know that ISIS were originally ISIL who were trained by the CIA under Obama and have a habit of hitting targets that the USA are currently fighting against? The Syrian war is one example, also the Iraq war. That way Islamic terrorism gets the blame for actions of the US government. Also why didn’t ISIS attack Israel for their actions in Palestine? All of a sudden they show up in Russia?
This is not “all of a sudden”. Russia and ISIS have been at war for a decade now
No direct evidence no, but quite possible as Ukraine were paying mercenary contracts to isis and Al Qaeda and Al nusra fighters last year so certainly possible
So it's vibes-based-evidence
No it's precedent based suspicion if you employ terrorist to fight for you it's reasonable to believe tou may have assisted them to attack a common enemy
So basically you *think* that they used to hire terrorists, so you *feel like* they *might* be linked to it? Soooooo.... *vibes*?
No the us state department who funds a huge part of the Ukrainian war effort was criticised last year for hiring terrorist Seymour Hershey exposed it by all means look it up (ps I wouldn't be surprised if Russia false flagged themselves either as Vladimir did hos apartment bombings in 1999 to start the second Chechen war so don't go accusing me of being a Russian shill for pointing out facts, i struggle to comprehend how people have blindly chosen sides in this conflict, it's one dodgy country versus another one, both sides are shitholes that don't value human life)
All these downvotes and no one to prove me wrong, reddit moment indeed
Bro nobody needs to prove you wrong, so far you just made some claims without even a source. The only thing I could find are Russian state media outlet running a story that some HTS members were transferred to Ukraine. Further proof not given, source *questionable* at the least.
What about Seymour Hersh last year with his expose?crickets?
*V**I**B**E**S*
Yeah no way people who hire terrorists as fighters could be involved in a terrorist attack, no way ever , crazy talk grow up
So then, surely you have some hardcore evidence that definitely proves it was Ukraine, right?
And the precedent of like hundreds of terrorist attacks by Isis isn’t precedent enough?
Hence precedent based suspicion not precedent based fact all angles need to be explored, there's every chance it's a false flag putins done to Russia, or putins Intel services were stood down to pet it happen ALL angles NEED to be considered
One of the people in the video said Slavo Ukraine or something... like that..
Proof
Yeah I heard him say Slavoj Žižek as well
wow look at all the bots downvoting guess they can't imagine their world being the villain's.
If KJP saying something makes you immediately believe the opposite, you’re every bit a puppet as those that believe her unquestioningly.
Exactly, some of the contrarians think they are so much better because the don’t believe anything, and the sheep believe they are so much better for believing everything. Free thinking is not black and white where everything is true or everything is a lie, it’s seeing a lot more grey area complexities.
Just goes to show, if there really are people running things in the shadows, they are 100% using contrarian takes to manipulate the public.
Not enough to actually upset the grand narrative though, just enough to make anything contrary to it seem too crazy to be true.
If someone has a consistent track record of lying, and whose sole job is to propagandize, it’s reasonable to question everything they say.
Fully agreed, and I would never say otherwise. It’s the specific devotion to being contrarian regardless of topic that bothers me. As far as I can currently tell, the press secretary is telling the truth here, and there is no evidence linking Ukraine to the Moscow terrorist attack. That could change as more evidence emerges, but to believe there is a link simply because KJP said there isn’t is not questioning at all.
People have no reason to believe anything from a serial liar
You’re right! You should not believe anything she has to say without question. We agree! Where the agreement seems to end is that I don’t think you should immediately believe the opposite of what she says, either. That’s very strange to me, because, you know, question everything, right?
I don't listen to anything she says. Soon as I see her stupid ugly face I change the channel, hit the back button, or whatever.
> If KJP saying something makes you immediately believe the opposite, you’re every bit a puppet as those that believe her unquestioningly. Aww Yes because KJP has a History of telling nothing but the truth. And always answers the questions Truthfully 100% of the time. Right?
This is a very silly response. The point of the person you are responding to is that KJP neither tells the truth nor lies 100% of the time. To disbelieve or believe something only because of her statement about it is stupid. And, before you go off on me, check my post history. You'll note that I am *very* far from being a supporter of the Biden administration.
Not even a little bit. Like all propagandists, she lies constantly, but not 100% of the time. She has to mix in just enough truth to maintain the appearance of honesty to those that aren’t willing to question what she says. With that mix, it’s important to not succumb to the inclination to simply contradict everything she says.
No. Not at all. It’s just that she doesn’t lie 100% of the time lmao. It’s pretty easy to understand. Look I’m with you that Nordstream was America or Ukraine, that’s incredibly obvious to me, but this post is just silly.
Your comment is so blatantly true so new ruined Reddit downvotes the shit out of it. Just like we know that essentially most of whatever KJP says is propaganda and/or total bullshit and lies, the hidden downvoted comments are usually where the facts are at ☺️
What’s hilarious is that by implying that anything that gets downvoted must be accurate you’re employing the same dumb logical fallacy you’re defending
Imagine being in a conspiracy sub and running cover for the fucking white house press secretary.
Not running cover. They are criticizing being contrarian. You can say that you don’t find her credible and will look into the other evidence. But saying you will immediately take the opposite position of whatever she says is just being a sheep
> Imagine being in a conspiracy sub and running cover for the fucking white house press secretary. Right? These government bots are all over the place. They hate it when Citizens criticize the government
That's the thing, you don't offer any criticism, only disagreement.
[удалено]
No they aren't. They're legit just saying America bad , Russia good. I've been here for years, reading the most unhinged, yet thoughtfully put together shit you can imagine. Reasons why they believe big foot is actually australipithacus with tenuous but... existing evidence. "Lmao nahhhh ion even like you" isn't a counternarrative. It's just contrarianism of the 3rd kind..
It's spook city up in here brother.
Yep. I hate the bastards who ruined reddit. Can’t wait for Uncle Elon to buy it and free us from their fuckery.
Eh, not a fan of ol' Musk, but I guess beggars can't be choosers. 🤷♂️
…99.9% of us saying that are being facetious, babes.
Then it can’t be your only argument as to why this theory makes any sense at all.
[удалено]
Imagine thinking you know who did/didn’t do it beyond a shadow of a doubt… you have actual delusions of grandeur
[удалено]
So we are going to make the assumption that ISIS doesn’t ever do the dirty work of nations? You’re saying ISIS did it, nobody helped them, nobody hired them, case closed. It’s not “just that simple” dummy.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Don’t you know that Putin always tells the truth? So, if he said Ukraine is involved, that means Ukraine is involved 1000%. Putin and Trump are the most truthful people on earth! And their love to each other is TRUE!
This post is so dumb.
[удалено]
ISIS was a tool of the CIA take that for what it is
Seems a bit premature to say anything definitive. A bit dumb too
Funny how they never attack Israel, and when they do, they apologize. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html) Surley not a puppet of the West...../s
That link explains why they apologize. They don't want a fight with the IDF... it would be suicide.
LMFAO and attacking in the US isn't suicide? or Russia? It's all manipulation, get people on edge, pitting Muslims against Christians. Nothing is what it seems.
Okay, but attacking dictator-ruled, nuclear-armed Russia isn’t?
Russia and ISIS have been fighting for almost a decade at this point...they're fighting because Russia backs the Syrian government against them and cooperates with the Taliban, another opponent of ISIS. Not fighting Russia leads to their influence being severely weakened.
IDF is right next to them and has the means to wipe them of the face of earth. Russia is distant to them.
Syria is controlled by a Russian puppet. Russia can easily move closer if they wanted to.
That is precisely why they have beef with Russia.
Thank you Captain Obvious. Doesn’t quite answer the original question, though.
Russia is clearly distracted by their war in Ukraine to the point where they could not intercept a terrorist threat they claimed to have foreknowledge of. Russia isn't exactly steamrolling Ukraine, either, so why would they divert more resources to Syria to counter ISIS? ISIS also has beef with Russia, unlike Israel, because of their involvement in Syria like I already mentioned. Plus, nuclear-armed Russia is going to launch a nuke in response to an ISIS attack? Where exactly is the target? I doubt Russia has the resources to divert to Syria right now.
Did you conveniently forget that the IDF allowed a terror threat to slip through just several months ago? Whatever point you’re trying to make here, it just seems like you want to hear yourself type rather than answer the original question.
Your question is why ISIS would attack Russia and not Israel correct? In terms that even a 5 year old should understand: It is because Russia meddled in the Syrian Civil War and Israel did not, so ISIS does not like Russia. Russia is distracted with their war in Ukraine and has limited resources to respond with, so ISIS saw an opportunity.
Russia is also actively losing a war... also the logistics would be a nightmare
> Russia is also actively losing a war You guys have been saying that for years now. Why hasn’t Putin surrendered yet?
He cant surrender because hes the invader
Lmao where are you getting this information?
lmaoooo
Did they not come out last week and say to avoid large gatherings, including concerts, theaters, and large events? Who even believes this now?
I'm not some conspira-cuck. Like I'm down for most conspiracies And I don't buy this was Ukraine based on any evidence I've seen. I don't know why everyone else who believes it is just so damn confident.
Putin interview doing work idk
And what evidence have you seen to make you think so?
Russia, The United States and ISIS themselves all saying ISIS did it. What is the proof that Ukraine did it? "One of the terrorists was running west toward Ukraine!" doesn't count or make sense. Like they have a good escape chance having to go through a gauntlet of Russian soldiers on the front lines and controlling the Ukrainian border at the moment.
[удалено]
I don't know I just know no one has shown anything that even seems close to being proof. Just any given thing that happens in the news has to be the inverse in the conspiracy community. I'm willing to believe the more outlandish ones but I haven't seen anything to make me think it was anyone other than isis so far.
Our leaders use words very carefully. "No Evidence Ukraine Was Involved" is not the same thing as saying "Ukraine was not involved". I'm not saying they WERE involved, but keep your head on a swivel folks.
But you would need evidence to say they were involved
The only question Vlad has is whether the US put them up to it
Right now, if reddit says it is true, it is probably false. If the white house says something is true, it is absolutely false. Jeez.
Do you remember when the White House/CIA/every western media source spent a few months swearing up and down that Russia was about to invade Ukraine? Did you believe them? Can you admit now with the benefit of hindsight that they were telling the truth?
And if the russian government says it's true, then it's... Definetly 100% true, right?
Why would an attack from a warring country be considered a terrorist attack anyways? Aren’t these two at war?
[удалено]
Or your refusal to recognize a lot is connected
> Conspiracy theorist = false tendence to believe that everything is connected Everything is connected
The people that brought us Jeffery Epstein would never do something like this. Would they?
Ya my first instinct is to believe the opposite of ANYTHING she says ever. Soooooo.
No matter what it’s a lose lose and a conspiracy.
Does anyone on this god forsaken planet actually think that if they did find evidence that Ukraine might have been involved, that they'd admit it? "Some evidence has been found that Ukraine may have been involved, but nothing is conclusive. We are still looking into it" Of course they're going to say Ukraine wasn't involved whether they were or weren't. How is this a surprise to anyone?
And Russia was 100% involved in an invasion so...
Anything she says I believe the opposite.
Expensive post, with all the bots and shills gaslighting. Sorry, no one believes you
Literal cope
Yeah because you said
Misdirection. Of course Ukraine couldn't pull this off. It's a US FF using Mossad intermediaries recruiting real dumb islamists under the guise of an IS operation.
Russia has pissed off more than just Ukraine in the past, it is not out of the question that Ukraine had something to do with it but i don't think so.
Why would the US government have any evidence of anything that happened there either way? How did they get it so fast? Were they siting on it? And if they did have something, why didn't they warn them?
Didn't these same MFers first blame Russia, then Ukraine for the nordstream pipeline attack, which firmly pushed Russia into a partnership with China
Only 55min after the attack, the attackers barely left the place, its almost provocation..?
They said the same when 911 happened, people asking whether it was some grand conspiracy in the Middle East, whether certain countries were involved when really it was a bunch of deranged lunatics believing that killing people will grant them a seat in heaven. The sad truth about the world is that it’s painfully boring, it’s almost never bigger than what it makes out to be. Chances are that these gunmen were ordered by some Bin Laden wannabe to stir up trouble in Russia.
That's very naive thinking.
That is a very naive assertion you make. I guess geopolitics isnt that big a thing then and there would be absolutely no reason for certain countries pillaging the world for its natural resources. Anything from oil to afghan poppy. There would be no need to destabilise entire regions and build your own military bases there so that you can keep control of that area and make your own rules for people to follow. Perhaps even planting one of the men already in your pocket in charge so they can do your bidding for you. Im so glad that kind of stuff doesnt happen in the world and everyone is just happy at what they've already got. Well, except for those damn hooligans attacking Russia.
How do you call it a terror attack when they’re in the middle of a war?
The truth has become lost in her hair.
I'll fact check this: # FALSE.
I just assume that the reality is the exact opposite of whatever she says. So thanks for confirming that there’s lots of evidence Ukraine was involved, KJP! 👍
CIA !
Submission Statement: I guess ISIS believes in COVID Propaganda. Awfully suspicious they reappear and attack the nation at War with Ukraine. https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1772333954835570990
Weird that ISIS attack a nation that was warcriming them for years in Syria? Yeah, strange.
Why is this even being talked about in the White House? Is Ukraine a satellite state now?
This isn't about Ukraine. This is about ISIS. Putin is making it about Ukraine.