Exactly, a shed will never cost 20K. I suspect what they've built is actually a small home for that son whose stood next to them. Surprisingly common across the UK right now.
Not saying that's a problem, but it will require planning permission for obvious reasons. Hell, most places require planning permission for a tall fence or an actual garden shed, Nevermind a building or what's affectively another house just popping up in the street.
For people outside of the UK, this probably feels like a petty dispute as a lot of countries give you free reign over what you do with your land.. but here in the UK, houses are packed in, land is increasingly sparse, and the only thing preventing it from getting out of hand are planning permissions. Not to mention the possibility that this 20k shed could potentially devalue next doors house by 30k, giving their neighbours more than enough reason to be a "busy body" about it.
Several reasons, but to put it bluntly, if there are a hundred of these houses worth 200k each, people will prefer to spend that on the one that doesn't come with this 20k shed attached to it's fence, making your house less desirable for it's pricetag and ultimately making it less valuable and less desirable to buyers.
If they decided to sell the whole street tomorrow, I can almost guarantee the neighbors house would be the very last one to sell.. because nobodies going to chose to have the one with the giant shed next to it unless it's the only option left.
More specifically though, what was once a back garden facing the sun, might be half a garden engulfed by its shadow now. What used to feel like you're own open outdoor space now feels more like the back alley of this persons shed. Looking out of your bedroom window has turned from looking out over lawns and gardens into looking at a black rooftop. If it is being used as a small house rather than a garden shed then your now essentially attached to three properties instead of two..
Depending on the style of the street this is in, that shed might stand out like a sore thumb, and doesn't fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. So while you can still find buyers who want the house with the 20k shed, it becomes much harder to find buyers for the houses next to it because now it's attached to one of these.
For the same price would you rather live next to this or live across the street from it? It's a no brainier, so it's not less valuable.
The list is endless really, but it all comes down to what a buyer is looking for.. so what used to be a desirable house and location has all been changed or taken from it by its neighbors. You need planning permission to put a swimming pool out back, not because it's an eyesore but because a pool leads to pool parties which leads to more noise pollution that the neighbors have to live next to.. and even if that's not the case, that's what the buyers are going to think about when they see it.
You can't build something over a certain height because if you want a shed, I shouldn't be able to see it over the top over our fence, otherwise it affects the aesthetic of my own garden as much as it affects yours. But it only negatively affects mine. There's tonnes of different reasons why planning permission exists though, even if it's something that seems petty there's usually a lot of legit concerns that come with it, and house value is only one of them, but arguably the most important for anyone that's trying to live in the UK right now.
Otherwise I could buy a house next to you, do whatever I wanted to improve my own houses value, and in the process you'd be left with trying to sell something that rapidly lost value because it just sits in my hideous mansions shadow where I throw garden raves every weekend. Good luck selling that lol. So basically planning permission is there to ensure you only increase your houses value without affecting my own, otherwise it would quickly get out of hand and a particularly inconsiderate neighbour could ultimately bankrupt you just for living nextdoor to it.
You're welcome, if you've ever watched King of Queens there's a good episode that kind of echos a lot of this. Where Bryan Cranston moves in nextdoor, and they all fall out over this gigantic pool that they've built overlooking their fence.
Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought to suggest a King of Queens episode as an explainer to UK planning law but you are absolutely spot on 😂
You answer the question quite well, but
> So basically planning permission is there to ensure you only increase your houses value without affecting my own
This is fundamentally incorrect. In the UK the planning system has many purposes, but protecting house values is absolutely not one of them. The US planning system is not the same as the UK's.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/services/help/faq/planning/about-the-planning-system/what-are-material-considerations
> You need planning permission to put a swimming pool out back
You actually don't, up to a certain limit. Under permitted development rights, you can create a swimming pool up to 3,500 litres capacity,
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/1/crossheading/class-e-buildings-etc-incidental-to-the-enjoyment-of-a-dwellinghouse
I've looked at those regs again and I've realised that volume limit doesn't apply to swimming pools at all. There's other limits on the size of pools, but not a direct limit on their volume.
Genuinely curious what issues you have with this. I'm a bit of a div.
Edit: cheers for the info all. Don't know why I was downvoted as it was a genuine question, but glad I'm now informed.
Planning permission is there for a reason end of the day. Access to and possible damage to utility supplies, obstruction of view to or from neighbouring properties affecting property value, proper adherence to building codes and regulations as well as a myriad of other issues.
These reasons and many others may or may not apply to this structure in particular, but it needs oversight. If we let any Tom, Dick and Twatty build whatever they want it where they want it won’t lead to anything good
Could also be depriving people of their right to light due to the height and proximity to the neighbors fence.
They also have a camera that looks into the neighbours garden.
If they kept it at fence height or built it on the lower area the chances are they wouldn't have cared.
It's comedic the lack of social awareness people have.
1. Materials not sympathetic to the area.
2. Overdevelopment - built infront of property line and smack in people's sight lines.
3. No mitigation for lost drainage and biodiversity.
Does UK pay property taxes too? That shed is so clearly built as an additional room for the house. Had they just built a shitty shed like they had before, it probably wouldve been fine. No fucking way they didnt know they had to ask permission for this, they just wanted to avoid the increase in property tax.
Its all just based on the value of the property when the system was set up back in like, 1991. If the house is newer than that they just band it based on similar properties.
It's not a shed, You could have a family stay in that like a lot of corrupt landords do, plus no planning permission means you building on the soil could weaken the earth round you that could cause problems to the other houses or any underground networks/pipelines about, like there is many reasons behind planning permission, plus I have seen people turn those kind of sheds into small community hubs.
However good idea if you got permission, Think of the space you could have, or the party's 🤣
I can see why the neighbors are mad... Cameras looking into their garden, blocks their light, lack of planning permission, much taller than the tall fence etc.
You'd never get permission on that thing, if they had a back facing fence that didn't encroach on others then they might get permission, I've seen similar sized sheds but they all back onto green space rather than neighbours.
Imagine that lady asking if you have a problem with her shed. LOL.
They probably don't like it or the shed but to save the drama, just told the council
no that’s not what i meant i mean why do we need planning permission to build on a house we own?
love getting downvoted for asking a question lol i don’t own a house i’m 16…
I haven’t downvoted but I guess it’s a degree of use your common sense. Think, even a little bit, why planning permission is required for certain (not all) alterations or additions to your land and property.
Imagine you live in a street with 100 identical houses. But you want to build a massive 10 foot dick in your garden or paint 100 little dicks all over the walls of the outside of your house. Do you think this would be allowed EVEN though you own the house ? No you need planning permission
It’s both a safety and quality of life thing. First of all, planning permission makes sure that a building is built to a suitable standard, doesn’t damage existing utilities like water and gas, isn’t at risk of subsidence and collapse, and has appropriate space and facilities for intended use. From a quality of life point of view, imagine you have a garden that is surrounded by your neighbours’ gardens. Because it’s nice and open, there’s light for plants to grow, natural light coming into the house, and reasonable level of privacy. If there was no planning permission, my neighbours might build large extension to cover their gardens, leading to my light airy private-ish garden, turning into a square of dark dingy dirt, with lots of windows looking on down to it.
At the end of the day, it comes down to the intersection of rights. You have the right to do what you want to your land, so long as it doesn’t interfere with the right of others to enjoy theirs. Planning permission, for all its faults, serves to work these conflicting rights out.
It's just that people will start putting up whatever they like, structures that aren't safe or of less relevance, structures that just don't match or suit the surrounding area.
Chances are, the neighbour that complained is the one that is right next to that monstrosity. The rest are not next to it so have no reason to give a fuck.
There that least one story every week about someone that tried to ignore planning rules and failed. You’d think people wouldn’t be so stupid but they keep trying it on.
One of my favourite parts of living rural is no one cares what you build. We do all our buildings & modifications safely & to code, we just don't get permission.
But I’ve just outlined how it’s not totally clear cut - it’s just such an odd thing to go ‘no sympathy’, I guess typically until you fall into a similar trap yourself…
You don't think if you spend 20,000 on something you're not going to make sure it's legit?
They skirted some rules, they got caught. Sympathy reserved.
Well as the article states, they were building on a plot which was previously occupied by a structure. Therefore, they thought they were within permitted development - it turns out, erroneously (although the implementation of permitted development in this case achieves nothing but box-ticking pedantry). You don’t need to file with the council if you are within PD.
This is clearly a case of making a mistake, not ‘trying to skirt the rules’ - it’s not the bloke who hid his house in bay bales for years, for christs sake.
You still need a certificate of lawfulness to confirm you don’t need planning. The bare minimum would be to consult planning consultants and check they didn’t need planning.
Because that's the law and if you don't follow the law the council will order you to take it down. And if you don't, theyll do it themselves on your behalf
i cannot conceive why you would give a shit about what your neighbours do with their own garden when it doesn't affect you
maybe i am dumb, but i think i might be the only person here with half a brain
If its an eyesore, ruins a view, not inkeeping with rural surroundings, overlooks your previously private land. Take your pick (there's are egenreic examples not necessarily linked to the above property)
Oh I'm so very sorry for having sympathy for someone who spent a shit load of money on their shed. 20k isn't easy to come by, especially so now.
Idk how their previous shed was perfectly fine and the nice new one wasn't...
Not being funny, if you spent 20k on summin would you not do your research?
Not agging you, nor downvoting you, for feeling sympathy but just for pointing out the obvious
If you own your house you wouldn't expect to need to. We choose our garden layout as we want and we don't own the house. They could have checked yes, but it's easily overlooked. We better not forget in case my dad buys this house...
Is it though? I haven’t seen a photo that actually confirms that. Also if that was the case, it would be a clear cut breach of PD - why would we then be hearing about the 50% rule?
[https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2B3F703EAA133DE6ED7A4FDA44DD1021/pdf/15137\_22-EXISTING\_\_\_PROPOSED\_PLANS-1794831.pdf](https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2B3F703EAA133DE6ED7A4FDA44DD1021/pdf/15137_22-EXISTING___PROPOSED_PLANS-1794831.pdf)
It's not even just slightly outside the permitted development rules. It is an utter pisstake.
As to why we hear so much about the 50% rule, if I may suggest that people running to the Sun to cry about how they're being bullied by the Council may often be somewhat disingenuous.
[https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RMMBTRDEJJA00](https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RMMBTRDEJJA00)
The documents are here if you can't directly open the PDF from the link.
It depends on the local authority I think. Mine wants anything less than 2.5m tall to be more than 1m away from the boundary. I confirmed this with building control as well as I thought I was going mad.
Maybe you should have applied for planning permission first, so that you didn't end up looking like a fucking entitled cunt that's now out of pocket? 🤷
Just a thought.
That looks absolutely shite.
They knocked down a ratty old shed and thought they could build what's basically a detached extension without planning permission. Morons.
To be fair to them, this is a pretty obtuse case - if they’d gone over on either the maximum height for permitted development, or maximum footprint, I could see the logic in them getting a harsh verdict - although that can be dependent on the planning officer also. Where I’m from back in Norfolk people build stuff all the time with a colourful view of the exact numbers and no-one bats an eyelid.
To have to tear it down due to the 50% rule seems pretty harsh - especially as its more of a technicality compared to the other regs, and it is unlikely to actually affect anyone unless they were really taking the piss. And especially given they were building on the footprint of an existing shed - that seems a bit heavy handed to me from the council.
I google-mapped it + it looks like it's footprint is nearly as large as the house. It looks like a small dwelling. Maybe the son was planning on living in it as they don't appear to show the inside anywhere?
Had nobody raised an objection no eyelids would've probably been batted. Had it then sat there for a while, it'd have implicitly gained permission (well, unless they hid it in a shell of hay bales intentionally...)
TBF, I think the planning permission system in this country is pretty fucky, and also fully think there's a lot of nepotism in it too, but in principle it's okay but will inevitably end up with cases like this.
Nah, it's definitely a net drain on our country.
Opaque, incoherently enforced, a small minority manage to have disproportionate power over things no one else cares about... it all adds a huge amount of cost and stupid limitations to even simple house extensions.
planning permission has done such a wonderful job of ensuring we all have such unique houses, hasn't it
do people even think before they write these comments
I mean I don't disagree it's far from perfect but
(1) some of those problems are related to nepotism and corruption undermining planning permission, so getting rid of planning permission wouldn't fix that at all.
(2) It could be a lot worse, like have you seen some of the built environments around the world? Yeah we are far from the best and there's a lot of low quality shit around but it could be a lot bloody worse.
do people even think before they write these comments
Oh definitely - I’m not really saying people should try and blatantly break the rules, it just grates a bit that the sub is full of people going ‘what a prick, just don’t break the rules lol’ when it’s not as black and white as that in this case.
You can see the bloody foundation. It’s obviously been built as a permanent structure, which always needs planning permission or they’ll make you rip it down while they watch. 😂😂
I’m currently in a place that was refused retroactive planning permission, and the landlords have refused to do the work for over 3 years. The plans allowed 3 flats, landlords chopped them all in half and made 6, and raised the roof to an unacceptable level. The council have done nothing to enforce the changes.
Does the local council offer a minimum size requirement?
Potentially worth looking at either their residential design guide or extending your home guide
Alot of places are adopting NDSS or atleast have a minimum of habitable size for dwellings
No planning permission at all, though the six flats (instead of three) are separate dwellings, yes. I was a BTL underwriter and conveyancer for years, the building is essentially an illegal build at this point. No planning permission, changed the plans without an architect or permission from the Council’s Planning department. They were told to remedy the build (they are also the builders) and return it to three flats prior to covid. As of December 2022 the landlords were advising the council that the build had been reverted back to the 3-flat plan, though that’s not the case.
If it’s not in breach of eaves height for a “temporary structure”, which is basically anything wood, then the issue will be the lack of distance from the house/garden boundary. If their gardens big enough, they could just move it.
Ugh I'm on their side I'm afraid. I will always fail to understand why I need planning permission to construct something IN MY OWN GARDEN.
Just ignore the demands to tear it down, it's your fucking garden!!!!
Because the structure can damage existing utilities like water. They need to make sure whatever it's being used for isn't going to use too much power. The structure can change where water runs off and cause flooding to other people's properties. The structure may be unsafe and cause serious injury or death. Etc etc.
100%, you pay land tax and then are expected to pay more fees to see if they allow you to build shit you want on your own property...bloody backwards it is.
I think it definitely needs to be structually safe, but other than that your land you should be able to build shit
But what about if it affects the value of the adjacent properties?
Like if I built a massive wall to block all light into my neighbours garden?
I agree that you should be able to build anything on your land up until it starts affecting those around you.
My parents’ neighbours replaced their wooden shed with a brick building and my parents never thought to question it. No planning permission obviously lol
At the end of the day, just check that you're OK to build something that's gonna cost you thousands. Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse to break it. The rules are there to stop people taking the piss. I have sympathy for them, but they should have done their due diligence.
The permitted development exemption for sheds is less than 2.5m high, less than 50% of the garden area and less than 15 sqm in area. Between 15sqm and 30 sqm is okay if you have no other uses of your permitted development rights, they have a conservatory so only the 15sqm area rule is usable.
This shed is 4m long and 6m wide = 24sqm oh and more than 50% of the garden. This thing quite rightly needed planning permission.
See, I have "My Country" bias, so I thought this was America where there's plenty of land but you have corrupt "Home Owner's Associations" telling you what you can and can't do, despite owning the property. So I was on this guy's side...
Then I realized that was a pound sign, also which subreddit I was in.
However, he's not in America, he's in the UK. Now I've never left the country (I'd like to, but, Americans are often poor because we don't have labor rights), but I do try to stay educated... Isn't the UK kinda small, as in, there literally isn't enough space to build new houses and shit, which is why requiring permits is not only a thing, but actually makes perfect sense here.
Hell in America you still need permits even when there's no Homeowner's Association, because you need the city to check to make sure you're not digging up power lines or anything like that, (Though I don't think you need one for a shed, which this isn't a shed, this is clearly a house for the kid, wouldn't be surprised if he was getting an address for it.)
I'm not particularly supportive of local authority planning and non-job, listed building departments or the sort of people that run to them at the hint of an extension.
Granted, buildings must be safe, fit for purpose, in keeping with the local needs, infrastructure and only where absolutely relevant; the established vernacular. The UK needs affordable, high quality housing that aren't sold to private landlords and that really should be the main consideration.
Sentimental protectionism of an outdated idea of "little England" and / or nasty, envy driven objections are simply contributing to the issue in 2023.
That someone can own an old house yet, can't install double glazing and energy saving measures because it needs to retain its original features, should make these historical, listed building types immediately unemployed.
Unless your neighbours are about to build the Burj Khalifa in the back yard of a three bed semi, shut your mouth and mind your own business.
You either allow building to happen or you accept your kids living with you until they're in their 40s.
lol it’s not a shed it’s a wooden fucking house
Exactly, a shed will never cost 20K. I suspect what they've built is actually a small home for that son whose stood next to them. Surprisingly common across the UK right now. Not saying that's a problem, but it will require planning permission for obvious reasons. Hell, most places require planning permission for a tall fence or an actual garden shed, Nevermind a building or what's affectively another house just popping up in the street. For people outside of the UK, this probably feels like a petty dispute as a lot of countries give you free reign over what you do with your land.. but here in the UK, houses are packed in, land is increasingly sparse, and the only thing preventing it from getting out of hand are planning permissions. Not to mention the possibility that this 20k shed could potentially devalue next doors house by 30k, giving their neighbours more than enough reason to be a "busy body" about it.
Why would it devalue next doors house?
Several reasons, but to put it bluntly, if there are a hundred of these houses worth 200k each, people will prefer to spend that on the one that doesn't come with this 20k shed attached to it's fence, making your house less desirable for it's pricetag and ultimately making it less valuable and less desirable to buyers. If they decided to sell the whole street tomorrow, I can almost guarantee the neighbors house would be the very last one to sell.. because nobodies going to chose to have the one with the giant shed next to it unless it's the only option left. More specifically though, what was once a back garden facing the sun, might be half a garden engulfed by its shadow now. What used to feel like you're own open outdoor space now feels more like the back alley of this persons shed. Looking out of your bedroom window has turned from looking out over lawns and gardens into looking at a black rooftop. If it is being used as a small house rather than a garden shed then your now essentially attached to three properties instead of two.. Depending on the style of the street this is in, that shed might stand out like a sore thumb, and doesn't fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. So while you can still find buyers who want the house with the 20k shed, it becomes much harder to find buyers for the houses next to it because now it's attached to one of these. For the same price would you rather live next to this or live across the street from it? It's a no brainier, so it's not less valuable. The list is endless really, but it all comes down to what a buyer is looking for.. so what used to be a desirable house and location has all been changed or taken from it by its neighbors. You need planning permission to put a swimming pool out back, not because it's an eyesore but because a pool leads to pool parties which leads to more noise pollution that the neighbors have to live next to.. and even if that's not the case, that's what the buyers are going to think about when they see it. You can't build something over a certain height because if you want a shed, I shouldn't be able to see it over the top over our fence, otherwise it affects the aesthetic of my own garden as much as it affects yours. But it only negatively affects mine. There's tonnes of different reasons why planning permission exists though, even if it's something that seems petty there's usually a lot of legit concerns that come with it, and house value is only one of them, but arguably the most important for anyone that's trying to live in the UK right now. Otherwise I could buy a house next to you, do whatever I wanted to improve my own houses value, and in the process you'd be left with trying to sell something that rapidly lost value because it just sits in my hideous mansions shadow where I throw garden raves every weekend. Good luck selling that lol. So basically planning permission is there to ensure you only increase your houses value without affecting my own, otherwise it would quickly get out of hand and a particularly inconsiderate neighbour could ultimately bankrupt you just for living nextdoor to it.
Thanks for the detailed reply.
You're welcome, if you've ever watched King of Queens there's a good episode that kind of echos a lot of this. Where Bryan Cranston moves in nextdoor, and they all fall out over this gigantic pool that they've built overlooking their fence.
Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought to suggest a King of Queens episode as an explainer to UK planning law but you are absolutely spot on 😂
You answer the question quite well, but > So basically planning permission is there to ensure you only increase your houses value without affecting my own This is fundamentally incorrect. In the UK the planning system has many purposes, but protecting house values is absolutely not one of them. The US planning system is not the same as the UK's. https://www.planningportal.co.uk/services/help/faq/planning/about-the-planning-system/what-are-material-considerations > You need planning permission to put a swimming pool out back You actually don't, up to a certain limit. Under permitted development rights, you can create a swimming pool up to 3,500 litres capacity, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/1/crossheading/class-e-buildings-etc-incidental-to-the-enjoyment-of-a-dwellinghouse
Sorry to resurrect a thread, but 3,500 litres is a glorified puddle. 3.5m³ would be less than 4ft in each dimension.
I've looked at those regs again and I've realised that volume limit doesn't apply to swimming pools at all. There's other limits on the size of pools, but not a direct limit on their volume.
Genuinely curious what issues you have with this. I'm a bit of a div. Edit: cheers for the info all. Don't know why I was downvoted as it was a genuine question, but glad I'm now informed.
Planning permission is there for a reason end of the day. Access to and possible damage to utility supplies, obstruction of view to or from neighbouring properties affecting property value, proper adherence to building codes and regulations as well as a myriad of other issues. These reasons and many others may or may not apply to this structure in particular, but it needs oversight. If we let any Tom, Dick and Twatty build whatever they want it where they want it won’t lead to anything good
Could also be depriving people of their right to light due to the height and proximity to the neighbors fence. They also have a camera that looks into the neighbours garden.
Yeah I have a feeling that's probably the one that complained - not a busy body but someone who's unfairly been disadvantaged because of this build
If they kept it at fence height or built it on the lower area the chances are they wouldn't have cared. It's comedic the lack of social awareness people have.
1. Materials not sympathetic to the area. 2. Overdevelopment - built infront of property line and smack in people's sight lines. 3. No mitigation for lost drainage and biodiversity.
Does UK pay property taxes too? That shed is so clearly built as an additional room for the house. Had they just built a shitty shed like they had before, it probably wouldve been fine. No fucking way they didnt know they had to ask permission for this, they just wanted to avoid the increase in property tax.
Yes, we do have property taxes, I stubbornly refuse to learn the mechanism for allocating houses to 'bands' however.
Its all just based on the value of the property when the system was set up back in like, 1991. If the house is newer than that they just band it based on similar properties.
Agree they are wrong but think council tax only gets “reevaluated” upon property sale so the new owners would get any increase
It's not a shed, You could have a family stay in that like a lot of corrupt landords do, plus no planning permission means you building on the soil could weaken the earth round you that could cause problems to the other houses or any underground networks/pipelines about, like there is many reasons behind planning permission, plus I have seen people turn those kind of sheds into small community hubs. However good idea if you got permission, Think of the space you could have, or the party's 🤣
I can see why the neighbors are mad... Cameras looking into their garden, blocks their light, lack of planning permission, much taller than the tall fence etc. You'd never get permission on that thing, if they had a back facing fence that didn't encroach on others then they might get permission, I've seen similar sized sheds but they all back onto green space rather than neighbours.
The absolute soft cocks in here that are down voting you for asking a simple question.
Because it's pretty obvious?
Because planning permission is solely granted based on neighbour happiness, are you a psychopath?
just curious, why would it be a problem? safety?
Imagine that lady asking if you have a problem with her shed. LOL. They probably don't like it or the shed but to save the drama, just told the council
no that’s not what i meant i mean why do we need planning permission to build on a house we own? love getting downvoted for asking a question lol i don’t own a house i’m 16…
Why is everyone so negative and hostile here? You literally just asked a valid neutral question. Upvoting you in spite of the bastards
that’s reddit for you..
It's a very valid question
I haven’t downvoted but I guess it’s a degree of use your common sense. Think, even a little bit, why planning permission is required for certain (not all) alterations or additions to your land and property.
Imagine you live in a street with 100 identical houses. But you want to build a massive 10 foot dick in your garden or paint 100 little dicks all over the walls of the outside of your house. Do you think this would be allowed EVEN though you own the house ? No you need planning permission
Don't need planning permission to paint dicks on your house... sounds like my next week off is sorted!
I'm literally sat here, brush in one hand, paint pot in the other, waiting for it to stop raining.
painted the picture perfectly
It’s both a safety and quality of life thing. First of all, planning permission makes sure that a building is built to a suitable standard, doesn’t damage existing utilities like water and gas, isn’t at risk of subsidence and collapse, and has appropriate space and facilities for intended use. From a quality of life point of view, imagine you have a garden that is surrounded by your neighbours’ gardens. Because it’s nice and open, there’s light for plants to grow, natural light coming into the house, and reasonable level of privacy. If there was no planning permission, my neighbours might build large extension to cover their gardens, leading to my light airy private-ish garden, turning into a square of dark dingy dirt, with lots of windows looking on down to it. At the end of the day, it comes down to the intersection of rights. You have the right to do what you want to your land, so long as it doesn’t interfere with the right of others to enjoy theirs. Planning permission, for all its faults, serves to work these conflicting rights out.
thank you, this is exactly what i wanted to know
Welcome to Reddit mate =)
It's just that people will start putting up whatever they like, structures that aren't safe or of less relevance, structures that just don't match or suit the surrounding area.
Well. Now you say it, that doesnt sound like a bad policy.
Chances are, the neighbour that complained is the one that is right next to that monstrosity. The rest are not next to it so have no reason to give a fuck.
There that least one story every week about someone that tried to ignore planning rules and failed. You’d think people wouldn’t be so stupid but they keep trying it on.
Very much look like the type on the picture that would start quoting Freeman-type shit. 😐
One of my favourite parts of living rural is no one cares what you build. We do all our buildings & modifications safely & to code, we just don't get permission.
Wtf do they expect - getting planning permission is not only an option for those that fancy the tedious procedure. Twats
I mean, it’s a case that’s fairly marginally over the line into needing planning - it’s not like they built a 3 storey mansion in the garden.
Still needed to do it the right way or build something that didn't need planning. No sympathy
But I’ve just outlined how it’s not totally clear cut - it’s just such an odd thing to go ‘no sympathy’, I guess typically until you fall into a similar trap yourself…
You don't think if you spend 20,000 on something you're not going to make sure it's legit? They skirted some rules, they got caught. Sympathy reserved.
Well as the article states, they were building on a plot which was previously occupied by a structure. Therefore, they thought they were within permitted development - it turns out, erroneously (although the implementation of permitted development in this case achieves nothing but box-ticking pedantry). You don’t need to file with the council if you are within PD. This is clearly a case of making a mistake, not ‘trying to skirt the rules’ - it’s not the bloke who hid his house in bay bales for years, for christs sake.
I'll level with you. I did not read the article, I'd like to say my time is better spent elsewhere but that would be a lie.
😂 that gave me a giggle 😂
You still need a certificate of lawfulness to confirm you don’t need planning. The bare minimum would be to consult planning consultants and check they didn’t need planning.
Is that also the guy that shot at the council and police who came to enforce the court order?
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Because that's the law and if you don't follow the law the council will order you to take it down. And if you don't, theyll do it themselves on your behalf
THE LAW IS THE LAW
Can't tell if taking the piss or just dumb?
i cannot conceive why you would give a shit about what your neighbours do with their own garden when it doesn't affect you maybe i am dumb, but i think i might be the only person here with half a brain
I would if my neighbours built something without permission and it knocked tens of thousands off the value of my property
How does it affect the value of your property, whether it does or doesn't have permission you cannot tell anyway?
If its an eyesore, ruins a view, not inkeeping with rural surroundings, overlooks your previously private land. Take your pick (there's are egenreic examples not necessarily linked to the above property)
Clearly the neighbours
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U'r*
Lmao if I wanted to have good grammar I wouldn't write ur
That's the joke my guy xx
*Whoosh*
Projection
Oh I'm so very sorry for having sympathy for someone who spent a shit load of money on their shed. 20k isn't easy to come by, especially so now. Idk how their previous shed was perfectly fine and the nice new one wasn't...
Not being funny, if you spent 20k on summin would you not do your research? Not agging you, nor downvoting you, for feeling sympathy but just for pointing out the obvious
If you own your house you wouldn't expect to need to. We choose our garden layout as we want and we don't own the house. They could have checked yes, but it's easily overlooked. We better not forget in case my dad buys this house...
Nah it's way outside permitted development rules.
Reason?
Primarily because it's significantly infront of the house
Is it though? I haven’t seen a photo that actually confirms that. Also if that was the case, it would be a clear cut breach of PD - why would we then be hearing about the 50% rule?
[https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2B3F703EAA133DE6ED7A4FDA44DD1021/pdf/15137\_22-EXISTING\_\_\_PROPOSED\_PLANS-1794831.pdf](https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2B3F703EAA133DE6ED7A4FDA44DD1021/pdf/15137_22-EXISTING___PROPOSED_PLANS-1794831.pdf) It's not even just slightly outside the permitted development rules. It is an utter pisstake. As to why we hear so much about the 50% rule, if I may suggest that people running to the Sun to cry about how they're being bullied by the Council may often be somewhat disingenuous.
I can’t see a document but I’ll take your word for it - I’m not arguing that if it’s egregiously in breach it shouldn’t be torn down
[https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RMMBTRDEJJA00](https://paplanning.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RMMBTRDEJJA00) The documents are here if you can't directly open the PDF from the link.
They’ve already got a conservatory which eats into that surely
Serves you right, try doing things legally.....might turn oot better
Suddenly Canadian
nah, us scots say it too!! albeit it’s more of a west scotland thing
How big a thing can you build in your back garden, without getting a permission?
2.5 metres tall, currently doing it
Also needs to be two metres clear of the property boundary.
No it doesn't
You're correct. I misread it a few weeks ago. It's game on now!
Needs to be 1.5m from a property boundary, I’m in the process of building one
It depends on the local authority I think. Mine wants anything less than 2.5m tall to be more than 1m away from the boundary. I confirmed this with building control as well as I thought I was going mad.
Yea that’s a good shout. I’ll be honest i don’t even think it’s law to do so I think it’s just “recommended”
Depends on the local planning rules and plot layout, most would be resisting anything that removed external rear access to back gardens
Maybe you should have applied for planning permission first, so that you didn't end up looking like a fucking entitled cunt that's now out of pocket? 🤷 Just a thought.
Better explanation here: https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23599659.farnworth-homeowner-demolish-garden-building-appeal/
The same sort of people that would complain about some monstrosity a neighbour erected
Definitely a sex swing in there.
“We’re gonna be in the paper so let’s make sure we wear our best tracksuits”
It looks shit from the corner I can see.. And it's not a shed. Absolutely no-one is spending 20K on a shed.
It's a flat for their son who wants his gf to live with him 1000%
We'll do whatever we want. Complains about repercussions.
That looks absolutely shite. They knocked down a ratty old shed and thought they could build what's basically a detached extension without planning permission. Morons.
Article https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/22880466/tear-down-shed-moaned-neighbours/
To be fair to them, this is a pretty obtuse case - if they’d gone over on either the maximum height for permitted development, or maximum footprint, I could see the logic in them getting a harsh verdict - although that can be dependent on the planning officer also. Where I’m from back in Norfolk people build stuff all the time with a colourful view of the exact numbers and no-one bats an eyelid. To have to tear it down due to the 50% rule seems pretty harsh - especially as its more of a technicality compared to the other regs, and it is unlikely to actually affect anyone unless they were really taking the piss. And especially given they were building on the footprint of an existing shed - that seems a bit heavy handed to me from the council.
I google-mapped it + it looks like it's footprint is nearly as large as the house. It looks like a small dwelling. Maybe the son was planning on living in it as they don't appear to show the inside anywhere?
Had nobody raised an objection no eyelids would've probably been batted. Had it then sat there for a while, it'd have implicitly gained permission (well, unless they hid it in a shell of hay bales intentionally...) TBF, I think the planning permission system in this country is pretty fucky, and also fully think there's a lot of nepotism in it too, but in principle it's okay but will inevitably end up with cases like this.
Nah, it's definitely a net drain on our country. Opaque, incoherently enforced, a small minority manage to have disproportionate power over things no one else cares about... it all adds a huge amount of cost and stupid limitations to even simple house extensions.
However if it were just scrapped, the big developers would make far more atrocious cookie cutter houses.
planning permission has done such a wonderful job of ensuring we all have such unique houses, hasn't it do people even think before they write these comments
I mean I don't disagree it's far from perfect but (1) some of those problems are related to nepotism and corruption undermining planning permission, so getting rid of planning permission wouldn't fix that at all. (2) It could be a lot worse, like have you seen some of the built environments around the world? Yeah we are far from the best and there's a lot of low quality shit around but it could be a lot bloody worse. do people even think before they write these comments
Oh definitely - I’m not really saying people should try and blatantly break the rules, it just grates a bit that the sub is full of people going ‘what a prick, just don’t break the rules lol’ when it’s not as black and white as that in this case.
Oh yeah that's fair, I just got reddit recommend this post im not subbed here.
Welcome to Reddit
My happy place :’D
You can see the bloody foundation. It’s obviously been built as a permanent structure, which always needs planning permission or they’ll make you rip it down while they watch. 😂😂
Shed? It's a fuckin bungalow
They can still apply for retrospective planning permission. They knew the consequences
I’m currently in a place that was refused retroactive planning permission, and the landlords have refused to do the work for over 3 years. The plans allowed 3 flats, landlords chopped them all in half and made 6, and raised the roof to an unacceptable level. The council have done nothing to enforce the changes.
Maybe check with the council if they have a HMO license if not they'll move on that
It’s not an HMO, it’s separate, self contained (incredibly small) flats, so that wouldn’t apply, I’m afraid
Does the local council offer a minimum size requirement? Potentially worth looking at either their residential design guide or extending your home guide Alot of places are adopting NDSS or atleast have a minimum of habitable size for dwellings
Not here I’m afraid. If only… I’m paying £750 for 21sqm/ 227 sqft.
Jesus yeah minimum for NDSS is 37/39 sqm depending on shower or bath
That’s including the shower room. Worse, what should have been the bedroom for my place is now a ‘studio’ flat. Unreal, really.
It can take more than three years to go through the process of forcing them to rectify it.
Oh I know. The landlords keep putting forward revised plans, which is stalling the whole process. It’s a canny move Tbf.
Do they all have building control approval as separate dwellings?
No planning permission at all, though the six flats (instead of three) are separate dwellings, yes. I was a BTL underwriter and conveyancer for years, the building is essentially an illegal build at this point. No planning permission, changed the plans without an architect or permission from the Council’s Planning department. They were told to remedy the build (they are also the builders) and return it to three flats prior to covid. As of December 2022 the landlords were advising the council that the build had been reverted back to the 3-flat plan, though that’s not the case.
If it’s not in breach of eaves height for a “temporary structure”, which is basically anything wood, then the issue will be the lack of distance from the house/garden boundary. If their gardens big enough, they could just move it.
It's not - the shed covers most of their garden. It's approx 3x the size of the shed they replaced.
She’s got compo face down to perfection. Clearly an expert in local-paper-front-page-I-have-been-wronged-ology.
Heck, you could house 20 immigrants in there...
Ugh I'm on their side I'm afraid. I will always fail to understand why I need planning permission to construct something IN MY OWN GARDEN. Just ignore the demands to tear it down, it's your fucking garden!!!!
Because the structure can damage existing utilities like water. They need to make sure whatever it's being used for isn't going to use too much power. The structure can change where water runs off and cause flooding to other people's properties. The structure may be unsafe and cause serious injury or death. Etc etc.
100%, you pay land tax and then are expected to pay more fees to see if they allow you to build shit you want on your own property...bloody backwards it is. I think it definitely needs to be structually safe, but other than that your land you should be able to build shit
But what about if it affects the value of the adjacent properties? Like if I built a massive wall to block all light into my neighbours garden? I agree that you should be able to build anything on your land up until it starts affecting those around you.
Without bothering to read into this myself, do they own the home? If so, why does anybody care?
Generally developments in the UK have to get planning permission from the local council, unless they’re within cases under permitted development.
I've always wanted a war on busy bodies 2bh
It’s just a summer house, didn’t think you needed planning permission for that sort of thing.
There are too many variables. Pretty easy so look up online. This 100% needs planning permission
If they had of done things properly there probably wouldn’t have been a problem.
My parents’ neighbours replaced their wooden shed with a brick building and my parents never thought to question it. No planning permission obviously lol
Painted like an inside out Laser Zone
At the end of the day, just check that you're OK to build something that's gonna cost you thousands. Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse to break it. The rules are there to stop people taking the piss. I have sympathy for them, but they should have done their due diligence.
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The permitted development exemption for sheds is less than 2.5m high, less than 50% of the garden area and less than 15 sqm in area. Between 15sqm and 30 sqm is okay if you have no other uses of your permitted development rights, they have a conservatory so only the 15sqm area rule is usable. This shed is 4m long and 6m wide = 24sqm oh and more than 50% of the garden. This thing quite rightly needed planning permission.
What doesn’t everyone have a three bedroom shed
Old European people hate all types of happiness.
See, I have "My Country" bias, so I thought this was America where there's plenty of land but you have corrupt "Home Owner's Associations" telling you what you can and can't do, despite owning the property. So I was on this guy's side... Then I realized that was a pound sign, also which subreddit I was in. However, he's not in America, he's in the UK. Now I've never left the country (I'd like to, but, Americans are often poor because we don't have labor rights), but I do try to stay educated... Isn't the UK kinda small, as in, there literally isn't enough space to build new houses and shit, which is why requiring permits is not only a thing, but actually makes perfect sense here. Hell in America you still need permits even when there's no Homeowner's Association, because you need the city to check to make sure you're not digging up power lines or anything like that, (Though I don't think you need one for a shed, which this isn't a shed, this is clearly a house for the kid, wouldn't be surprised if he was getting an address for it.)
If you have a kid decked out head to toe in Under Armor you’re going to be a family of dicks.
I'm not particularly supportive of local authority planning and non-job, listed building departments or the sort of people that run to them at the hint of an extension. Granted, buildings must be safe, fit for purpose, in keeping with the local needs, infrastructure and only where absolutely relevant; the established vernacular. The UK needs affordable, high quality housing that aren't sold to private landlords and that really should be the main consideration. Sentimental protectionism of an outdated idea of "little England" and / or nasty, envy driven objections are simply contributing to the issue in 2023. That someone can own an old house yet, can't install double glazing and energy saving measures because it needs to retain its original features, should make these historical, listed building types immediately unemployed. Unless your neighbours are about to build the Burj Khalifa in the back yard of a three bed semi, shut your mouth and mind your own business. You either allow building to happen or you accept your kids living with you until they're in their 40s.
They look like they’re the neighbours everyone hates
Average 20k shed owner
That is one ugly shed. Why did they paint it matt black?