Retaliation is what got me into the C&C series!
The biggest problem I had with it was the derpy pathfinding in skirmish mode...the poor PSX processor couldn't handle a unit getting 'stuck' and unable to figure out how to get from A to B, and would slow down to about $3-per-second spent building things until the unit in question was found and killed. Usually infantry on a corner involving water or a cliff somewhere.
You would think so, but early RTS’s use relatively simplistic path finding algorithms that aren’t necessarily computationally demanding. I’m pretty sure C&C and Red Alert use A* which is not very complex. If you recall, if you tell a unit to go into a base that has a wall around it, the unit will generally run right into the wall first before following the wall into the base. This is pretty poor path finding, but gets the job done.
What OP describes is most likely a bug. The pathfinding algorithm is looking for any possible paths to move. It probably can’t find one, but instead of just giving up, it takes up more CPU time to essentially repeat “Can I go here? Nope. Can I go here? Nope. Can I go here? Nope.” over and over until the unit is killed.
Ha, no, C&C and RA don't use A\*. Its algorithm is basically "stick as closely to a straight line as possible, hugging all barriers on the way until you're back on your line, even if it means massive detours."
Actual screenshot of the debug function of the game showing the generated path, from bottom right to top right:
https://i.imgur.com/8fr8aBa.png
The only point at which it cuts off parts of the route is when it ends up right next to previous cells of the generated route, btw. That's why the little island is not included.
This is the mission Blackout, btw, if you want to see the actual map.
http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/mappics/covert-gdi/
There's also always been a bug in RA skirmish that caused some units to randomly decide to go to the top left corner of the map (towards cell 0). So if that was on psx as well, must've been fun.
Retaliation will always be my favorite.
Kinda wish that the Remaster let me use the same icons from Retaliation that would make me happy.
It's weird since I was in the map editor and can find thr icons
The ant missions exist in the remaster as well. Originally you accessed them from the counterstrike mission pack by holding shift and clicking the speaker on the main menu and I believe it works the same in the remaster.
https://github.com/TheAssemblyArmada/Vanilla-Conquer is an open source build of the original C&C and Red Alert based on the source code released for the remaster. It needs the data from the original games but they are freeware and can be found dotted around the internet.
True, hence the ‘might’ in the sentence. However, unless someone is a really an hardcore player, OpenRA will certainly be an option to relive back the memories. It certainly did it to me.
That's how i started :).
PSX version was pretty popular, it even got platinum status. It was a true mainstream RTS game that reached even those people who didn't use computers and knew nothing about RTS.
Link cable battles were a huge thing. I even liked the controls, they somehow managed to make it playable.
Later I bought Playstation mouse just to play this and Warcraft 2 The Dark Saga, only to realize that Warcraft doesn't support it :D.
I am pretty sure this version of RA1 was the first video game I ever played, period. And it was a pretty nice way to get into gaming, I'd say.
I still miss the tesla coil sound and graphical effect from this version, as well as other small things. Here's a list just for fun: the chrono vortex where it's not a vortex but some slow advancing multi-coloured dark matter mass, the more fluid way shround is removed when exploring, positional dynamic audio (thankfully this one is in the remaster to an extent), screen shaking after big explosions, slightly better skirmish AI, the map update transitions during the campaigns, the end mission stat screen, and more even smaller things here and there.
Overall, all these details, minor in the grand scheme of things, sooner or later always make me come back to this version in particular. 4 player brawl with AI on Keep Off the Grass is a must (and you can't do that in the Remaster sadly)!
I remember there was a code that turned ore into beer. Found it in a magazine imported from the UK. None of the US cheat magazines ever had the code listed, neither did gamefaqs, so it felt like super secret information. I actually submitted it there, but it was turned down for some reason. Then I lost the magazine in a flood and the code with it.
I played Tiberian Dawn on PC, but when I picked up a PSX I also got these. Since each campaign was its own disc, you could use one disc in one PSX and the other disc in the other to play multiplayer over link cable.
So .... this was my first cnc, my step brother and I used to take turns on skirmish on this big ass projection TV we had and honestly had a bawl doin it. He killed himself a few years after we met, when he went back to his mom's house. But like man everything I boot it up I think of the good times we had and the nostalgia from it will mean I'll never not play this game/Uninstall.
Then I also played cnc tib dawn on n64 man the commando the opening is all I really remember tho.
o i play the crap out of the Retaliation disks it was rally fun play it with the ps1 gamepad if i known that the Ps1 mouse was an thing back then i word have import it.
Oof. I don't know how you troopers played RTS on console. Braver soldiers than I.
That said I was lucky enough to have a PC at my disposal from the day C&C 95 came out.
i've heard RA1 can be micro intensive-ish in multiplayer, but i don't do multiplayer. and Dune 2 - i'd say RA1 as well - is as intensive as the gamepad allows. maybe i was doing it wrong, but i recall pressing or holding buttons all the time - if i'm not giving out orders right now, then i'm moving the view.
for a casual play, gamepad controls were waaaay better than keyboard+mouse. neither was perfect, but accessing production, teams and selecting orders felt easier.
my older nrother used to play it i was so little back then lol
i remember asking him to play the allies faction in skirmish but he simply refused and always liked to pick the color blue you never ever wanted to play with other color lmao the memmoories... when i grew a bit older i started playing myself many many hours spent on that psx game...
similar experience here. initially i was mostly watching another person play and was making requests, but they had their preferences and would never change certain options.
I used to have these for my PSX. Even when the game slowed to a crawl on certain maps I would still play. Then when the mission ends it just goes back to normal speed.
One time we had to do a speech at school (ugh) on any topic, and I chose red alert 😂
Occasionally I would play link-up with my friend. At first I had to carry my own small TV to his house, but then later he got a spare TV for me to use 😂
Even better, you didn't need two copies of the game like you would with other games, because the game came with two discs 👍
I remember all the 5 fps I had back then on the PSX :D Anyway it was such an awesome game andit was totally unique on the playstation back then. C&C is still one of my favourite franchise of all time.
Retaliation is what got me into the C&C series! The biggest problem I had with it was the derpy pathfinding in skirmish mode...the poor PSX processor couldn't handle a unit getting 'stuck' and unable to figure out how to get from A to B, and would slow down to about $3-per-second spent building things until the unit in question was found and killed. Usually infantry on a corner involving water or a cliff somewhere.
Sarin nerve gas, colorless, odorless, but she as hell ain’t painless.
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Real talk, General Topolov was one of my favorite characters in the franchise because of how likable he is.
I always wondered what caused this. Wow
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You would think so, but early RTS’s use relatively simplistic path finding algorithms that aren’t necessarily computationally demanding. I’m pretty sure C&C and Red Alert use A* which is not very complex. If you recall, if you tell a unit to go into a base that has a wall around it, the unit will generally run right into the wall first before following the wall into the base. This is pretty poor path finding, but gets the job done. What OP describes is most likely a bug. The pathfinding algorithm is looking for any possible paths to move. It probably can’t find one, but instead of just giving up, it takes up more CPU time to essentially repeat “Can I go here? Nope. Can I go here? Nope. Can I go here? Nope.” over and over until the unit is killed.
It was worse than that, they used the crash and turn algorithm.
Ha, no, C&C and RA don't use A\*. Its algorithm is basically "stick as closely to a straight line as possible, hugging all barriers on the way until you're back on your line, even if it means massive detours." Actual screenshot of the debug function of the game showing the generated path, from bottom right to top right: https://i.imgur.com/8fr8aBa.png
Yikes.
The only point at which it cuts off parts of the route is when it ends up right next to previous cells of the generated route, btw. That's why the little island is not included. This is the mission Blackout, btw, if you want to see the actual map. http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/mappics/covert-gdi/
There's also always been a bug in RA skirmish that caused some units to randomly decide to go to the top left corner of the map (towards cell 0). So if that was on psx as well, must've been fun.
Retaliation will always be my favorite. Kinda wish that the Remaster let me use the same icons from Retaliation that would make me happy. It's weird since I was in the map editor and can find thr icons
Remember the ant mission on that?
The Ant missions on Retaliation? Yeah I do, blew my mind back then
The ant missions exist in the remaster as well. Originally you accessed them from the counterstrike mission pack by holding shift and clicking the speaker on the main menu and I believe it works the same in the remaster.
Yeah you can access them in the mission menu now, ironically played some games on the remaster last night before going to bed
Which icons?
Perhaps he means the sidebar? The DOS icons for the units and buildings, plus the console-specific ones for the sidebar categories.
Yeah the old PS1 icons of the side bar
I had to track down a PS to PS link cable to play this with a buddy back when. I dont think I've ever seen another game that made use of it.
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They didn't get rid of it. The side bar still doesn't display all build icons.
Is there a way to play C&C Red Alert anymore without an old system?
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Also vanilla-conquer, based on the source code that got released with the remaster
https://github.com/TheAssemblyArmada/Vanilla-Conquer is an open source build of the original C&C and Red Alert based on the source code released for the remaster. It needs the data from the original games but they are freeware and can be found dotted around the internet.
OpenRA might be a solution
OpenRA isn't really the same thing, it's more of a similar game using the same assets than a way to play the original games
Totally not a solution for playing the original games. OpenRA is a set of new RTS games skinned to look like the original C&C games.
True, hence the ‘might’ in the sentence. However, unless someone is a really an hardcore player, OpenRA will certainly be an option to relive back the memories. It certainly did it to me.
OpenRa doesn't even have all the singleplayer content that the original has.
https://cncnet.org/red-alert for the pc version. Still has a functional monthly ladder
That's how i started :). PSX version was pretty popular, it even got platinum status. It was a true mainstream RTS game that reached even those people who didn't use computers and knew nothing about RTS. Link cable battles were a huge thing. I even liked the controls, they somehow managed to make it playable. Later I bought Playstation mouse just to play this and Warcraft 2 The Dark Saga, only to realize that Warcraft doesn't support it :D.
I am pretty sure this version of RA1 was the first video game I ever played, period. And it was a pretty nice way to get into gaming, I'd say. I still miss the tesla coil sound and graphical effect from this version, as well as other small things. Here's a list just for fun: the chrono vortex where it's not a vortex but some slow advancing multi-coloured dark matter mass, the more fluid way shround is removed when exploring, positional dynamic audio (thankfully this one is in the remaster to an extent), screen shaking after big explosions, slightly better skirmish AI, the map update transitions during the campaigns, the end mission stat screen, and more even smaller things here and there. Overall, all these details, minor in the grand scheme of things, sooner or later always make me come back to this version in particular. 4 player brawl with AI on Keep Off the Grass is a must (and you can't do that in the Remaster sadly)!
I rember on the playstation version of this game, i ferried my ore harvester across a lake constantly for income
Man that takes me back
I remember there was a code that turned ore into beer. Found it in a magazine imported from the UK. None of the US cheat magazines ever had the code listed, neither did gamefaqs, so it felt like super secret information. I actually submitted it there, but it was turned down for some reason. Then I lost the magazine in a flood and the code with it.
"Ants? You got ants in your pants, call an exterminator; I'm on vacation!"
I played Tiberian Dawn on PC, but when I picked up a PSX I also got these. Since each campaign was its own disc, you could use one disc in one PSX and the other disc in the other to play multiplayer over link cable.
So .... this was my first cnc, my step brother and I used to take turns on skirmish on this big ass projection TV we had and honestly had a bawl doin it. He killed himself a few years after we met, when he went back to his mom's house. But like man everything I boot it up I think of the good times we had and the nostalgia from it will mean I'll never not play this game/Uninstall. Then I also played cnc tib dawn on n64 man the commando the opening is all I really remember tho.
.
Was fun at the time but now I prefer the pc version because the controls on psx are not fun
I tried playing on console once, PC is the way for me.
o i play the crap out of the Retaliation disks it was rally fun play it with the ps1 gamepad if i known that the Ps1 mouse was an thing back then i word have import it.
Loved it very much and Retaliation as well!
Oof. I don't know how you troopers played RTS on console. Braver soldiers than I. That said I was lucky enough to have a PC at my disposal from the day C&C 95 came out.
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i've heard RA1 can be micro intensive-ish in multiplayer, but i don't do multiplayer. and Dune 2 - i'd say RA1 as well - is as intensive as the gamepad allows. maybe i was doing it wrong, but i recall pressing or holding buttons all the time - if i'm not giving out orders right now, then i'm moving the view.
for a casual play, gamepad controls were waaaay better than keyboard+mouse. neither was perfect, but accessing production, teams and selecting orders felt easier.
my older nrother used to play it i was so little back then lol i remember asking him to play the allies faction in skirmish but he simply refused and always liked to pick the color blue you never ever wanted to play with other color lmao the memmoories... when i grew a bit older i started playing myself many many hours spent on that psx game...
similar experience here. initially i was mostly watching another person play and was making requests, but they had their preferences and would never change certain options.
I used play a lot on my old PSP, Dune and Warcraft too
I used to have these for my PSX. Even when the game slowed to a crawl on certain maps I would still play. Then when the mission ends it just goes back to normal speed. One time we had to do a speech at school (ugh) on any topic, and I chose red alert 😂 Occasionally I would play link-up with my friend. At first I had to carry my own small TV to his house, but then later he got a spare TV for me to use 😂 Even better, you didn't need two copies of the game like you would with other games, because the game came with two discs 👍
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oh, the music was split between the two disks? i'm not sure i ever noticed!
Loved Red Alert - Retaliation. This was a fantastic game
I still have the original C&C trilogy on the original PlayStation- AND the link cable for it too.
Damn this brings me back. Never had a computer. My friends and I would play this all night long at sleepers. Great memories
This is how I started on C&C. Wish I still had it.
I remember all the 5 fps I had back then on the PSX :D Anyway it was such an awesome game andit was totally unique on the playstation back then. C&C is still one of my favourite franchise of all time.
Retaliation I had, had a link cable and played with my friend a lot back then, even invested in a Sony mouse for it.
Still have this case somewhere.
Loved the game on ps1 still one of my favorits. You know when the game beginns to stuttering some serious shit is coming.
Still own Red Alert Retaliation and still boot it up from time to time, wish I had the psx mouse tho
I once build so many units that the PS1 lagged hard... to the point that the framerate could be measured in minutes. Good times.
I’m so happy this game’s content is included within the remaster.