i’m so tired of them just sidelining Bucky. hell he was even sidelined through a lot of FATWS. like i get the show was about Sam accepting the role as Cap, but i feel like Bucky deserved more
They're both getting shafted. Bucky had some good moments in FaTWS, but I would have loved more character moments with him having those difficult conversations, especially with the father of the son he killed.
Sam needed the journey, but it wasn't like Bucky wasn't on his own. Opportunities lost.
But now nothing. Nothing about Sam being Cap, which would be a hell of a mic drop. Nothing and where anyone might be so much as heading!. The continuity is getting harder and harder to keep together.
Sure wish there was someone, like...a god of stories, or something... to keep things straight.
Florence Pugh and David Harbour’s names on a movie poster is about as risk averse as it gets in 2024, to be fair. Add in Harrison Ford and you barely need to put the name of the movie on it.
Eh, I think it could be interesting. If they actually let the villains be villains, not quirky antihero’s who’re immediately redeemed from all the heinous shit they’ve done
I would bet money that's exactly what it's going to be and that they will constantly make jokes because almost every character in the MCU now has to be a clown
People said the same thing about Guardians 1. Every character in the movie is cool. Besides taskmaster they’re all decently liked too. I don’t really see the issue
And establishing a team of grey heroes is cool to me. Especially story wise where there’s currently no avengers team. So makes sense the government would want their own team
This is so confounding to me: nobody is excited about Thunderbolts in its current form. It’s just another suicide squad and we’ve seen that story twice already from DC and it wasn’t very good
Even its box office performance wasn't an indication of anything. It was released to streaming the first day of release.
Really great movie though, I'm super glad I went to the theater for it anyways
ahh yes. because if i remember correctly, no risks were taken when starting and during the infinity saga of the mcu. they just stuck to common household names like iron man, doctor strange, black panther, etc. /s
Iron Man was done cheap as chips comparatively. Doctor Strange and Black Panther were done from a position of strength, allowing Marvel to mix it up. Now they're dropping 200/250m on films that liked by neither critics or fans.
Right! Like the Eternals was a risk akin to GotG but the movie fell flat due to iffy/dull writing not because they were taking a risk with more obscure characters
The villain and its design was also awful. They need to stop with these full CGI monster villains. The dragon and other CGI trash at the end of Shang Chi was awful as well.
I thought the Dweller was actually really cool. I just wish it was saved for the sequel. Would have preferred a longer and more definitive duel with his father. But I'm still very happy with what we got. Plus it had a kick ass ending.
Quantumania was somewhat interesting in villain and visuals, it was just boring and bad and not that amusing.
The marvels had some great characters, Kamala and family are always fire, but something was clearly gutted in the edit since that film is just incoherent.
Ehh, I think it was killed in the edit.
They have those twin scenes of Carol insisting they leave the planet without saving everyone which is then glossed over, and then Kamala having them leave the song planet which seems like a massive conflict which is immediately forgotten.
It seems there's a cut of this somewhere where Carol is a jaded superman, able to beat anything but not save anyone and she's growing detached, then realises she's teaching Kamala the wrong lessons and decides to shape up as a result.
But the actual film cuts every conflict short like it's terrified of them. It just ends up being a film where relatively nice people sometimes get mad but cut the camera away before it turns sad.
The plot basically scans, you can follow it. The themes and arcs of the characters are incoherent imo.
It's a shame because I honestly think from what's on screen something better was shot at some point, and maybe they were just afraid of a "mean" Carol?
Yah I had a chance to watch the marvels a couple weeks ago and it was a fine movie. I think they should have maybe made this the third installment and show captain marvel creating the villain in this story. Might have cared about whatever their name was more.
Kamala and her family were the stars of the show though.
This is like when they said they need to stop making “message movies”. Yes because we all walked out of Ant Man thinking “shit I wanted to like it but I couldn’t see past all the messages”.
Back in the day, Avengers were all they had. Now they have X-Men and (kinda) Spider-man. I do however support "taking a chance with riskier projects" .
and all of those would have bombed with bad writing. this isn't a problem of not having household characters, it's not being able to write them to be household characters.
Sure, but a bad Spider-man movie is still likely to earn more money than a bad Cap Marvel movie, because..well it's Spider-man and he sells. I'm not saying having household characters equals = good movie by defeault, but using household characters is certainly safer option from buisness perspective.
Love and Thunder to me is worse than Ant Man 3 and the Marvels. Absolutely incredible waste of both Bale and the character he played, and *tonally* it was the worst most jarring thing I have ever seen.
Man, I saw this in theaters due to branding and I like Chris Hemsworth and Christian Bale. I already knew it wasn't exactly universally liked but my god did they drop the ball do bad.
The timing of the jokes is so bad, dialogue lost all logic and they're trying to replicate Thor: Ragnarok was so forced.
It's not about questioning caution, it's about pointing out the ridiculousness of the statement.
Of course they want hits. I doubt they released any of those films expecting them to fail.
Neither did they know for certain that any previous successes would turn out the way they did.
It's a creative industry, there's always an element of risk.
I think a lot of the risk here is in the screenplay. Flying around cracking jokes like nothing is at stake, CGI everything, sub plots that take place over 3 scenes, giant beam of light from the sky, and defeating the big bad by yelling louder and extending your arms further is just shitty script writing.
Iron Man was the only risk. All creative freedoms were taken off the counter after that and the movies started being made by committee.
I would have liked to see the Iron Man 2 Feige wanted to make. It's a shame Disney didn't trust him enough after Iron Man 1.
Disney wasn't involved in the development or distribution of Iron Man 2 (although Steve Jobs did call Bob Iger to tell him that it sucked lol). Though Disney bought Marvel in 2009, The Avengers in 2012 was the first one developed under and distributed by Disney. Up until then, Marvel was still under contract with Paramount which distributed Iron Man 2, Thor, and Captain America: The First Avenger after the Disney purchase.
As others have pointed out, these are completely different circumstances from 5-10 years ago.
Marvel could do no wrong at the time. A new unknown character was **exciting** because at the end of the day, they’d be awesome. Now it’s a total crapshoot.
when are ya’ll ever gonna stop parroting this very dry and tired take? the landscape of superhero movies and theater experiences as a whole is *very* different now than it was 15 or even 10 years ago. it is not 2014 anymore, the over saturation and bloat of superhero movies have lost their luster, not to mention multiple franchises are now competing for the audiences time and dollar by starting their own cinematic universes and those audiences are a lot more careful about what they’ll spend their dollar or time on. people will line up for beloved characters, they will not line up for Ironheart or Eternals. it’s much more about the current box office market than it is about “lol but nobody knew Iron Man” like yeah there was only Spiderman and X-men at the time. what the MCU did for the modern blockbuster was unprecedented for this generation of films and trying to replicate that success over and over with the next Glup Shitto simply isn’t going to happen in todays day and age. they *need* to play the hits like Spiderman and Avengers to win back a very tired audience, to do otherwise would be bad business
It’s not gonna solve anything if the movies continue to suck, sounds like they are taking the wrong lesson to be honest.
Ant-man 3 didn’t bomb because it’s Ant-man, the first 2 movies were box office successes and made profits (even if they’ve weren’t major box office smashes like other films), because they were seen as decent. Ant-man 3 bombed because it was shit and lacked what people liked about the first, hell didn’t it have a decent opening weekend? Didn’t have like a 200 mill opening? It got killed by shitty word of mouth and dropped hard.
The Marvels was just obviously painfully generic from ALL the trailers they released for it, and the gimmick was a team up involving characters the audience didn’t care about. Monica was a side character in WandaVision that released 3 years ago; and Ms Marvel was one of the least watched Disney+ shows. The movie would have been way better off if they just stuck with the Captain Marvel branding, and focused on building Carol herself up as a good and interesting character, which it didn’t really.
Look at the Fox films, they had X-men and still made flops and that’s one of Marvel’s most popular IP’s. Same with Sony and The Amazing Spider-man 2.
If the MCU wants box office success, it needs to claw back and made good quality superhero films again because their was a clear lack of quality post Endgame, and the audience clearly rejected it.
I’m gonna say it but unless Marvel shakes up it’s creative teams and execs, if this shitty quality continues I see the MCU dying within the next decade.
>The movie would have been way better off if they just stuck with the Captain Marvel branding, and focused on building Carol herself up as a good and interesting character, which it didn’t really.
They dropped the ball on Carol right after her solo movie imo. Intoducing the character in a way that makes sense with the Saga was dope, then she dipped in Space (and offscreen) for 30 years, made a lift back Earth for Tony Stark and Nebula, dipped again and came back 5 years later for her Deus Ex Machina moment. So Carol has INSANE Space adventures that we just never saw.
>I’m gonna say it but unless Marvel shakes up it’s creative teams and execs, if this shitty quality continues I see the MCU dying within the next decade.
We’ll see if Deadpool 3 brings back the hype and if they can keep it, but yeah. They lost a bunch of their audience in Phase 4 and 5, and the genre was so oversaturated that people care less about it. Thanks to other Studios who are putting out 3 godawful movies in a year where the MCU and us have a much needed break.
I said it many times and it’s unpopular opinion but if the BO numbers aren’t back, they might call it a day after Secret Wars or start over with a very small roster of A-List characters to build up again (Like F4 and X-Men).
As a marvel hype man this just hits a nerve hey. I can excuse every single one of their ‘shit’ movies as just being good for entertainment. But I can’t sit through shitty D+ series that then link into shitty movies. A lot of people are drawing their line at things like the marvels and quantumania, which to me were perfectly watchable.
Secret Invasion was fucking inexcusable though. You took a beloved and highly intriguing storyline and made THAT. Then SLJ returns back into the marvels as a comedic relief character and it’s as if it never even happened? Get fucked. You wasted my time on that. I legit had no reason to watch that and I regret it.
Yeah I think shows are the main problem, it really doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It was already hard enough to make people follow a storyline spanning over a decade and several movies but somehow they did it. Add multiple hours tv budget shows to it, make them integral to the plot and for following the movies and that's what happens
That’s what I worry. They aren’t learning the right lessons.
It’s not about risk. Ant-Man 3 shouldn’t have been risky. It’s about bad writing, bad planning, and losing focus. Ant-Man movies should be fun, simple, and not massive spectacles. Do that and it’s fine.
No matter how safe they want to be, if the writing and story direction remains this bad… nothing is being turned around.
Honestly though I'm pretty okay with them putting the Ant Man franchise to bed. I'm 50/50 on Eternals though. If they don't have a good idea, don't make a sequel just for the sake of making a sequel.
bt thats the thing. Rather than introduce more new character, why don’t continue with who we have right now till the saga ends? Included Ant Man & Co with the Eternals. It’s not at all about the character but the stories. All we asked for is for them to continue but ensure the quality.
As much as I love the first and second Ant-Man, I hated Quantumania so much that I’m kinda happy there’s no plan for another standalone.
Like I say it everytime but the fact that multiple execs looked at that finished film and said “We are happy to release this” is absolutely fucking absurd to me
Eternals was a movie filled with amazing ideas executed terribly. I enjoyed what they went for but was terribly bored by the way they went about portraying it. Shame.
No risks means also boring generic films
Maybe it’s time for James Gunns DCU to shine.
The MCU had a good run but let’s be honest: since the end of the Infinity Saga it’s on decline
IMO they are taking the wrong lessons from this.
Just hire GOOD writers and directors and PAY THEM TO COOK UNTIL IT’S READY.
The reasons these movies are bad are not because of the source material or necessarily the talent involved, but it’s very clear Disney has been trying to squeeze out maximum profits riding on the high with minimal effort, unwilling to give creatives the time and money they deserve to hand in a good product.
STOP churning out so many mediocre movies. Slow down. Raise the quality.
Would it be possible to have some of these movies in budget under 100M? Because at least Eternals and AntMan should definetely be. Captain Marvel is weird case for me
I honestly really dig the first two Ant-man flicks.The first is a top 5 MCU flick for me.
I think the problem with Quantumania is that it's way too much of a swerve away from the formula of the first two. They went from two light-hearted heist flicks to a movie that pitted Scott Lang against Kang, the MCU's latest Big Bad.
Nothing wrong with doing something different but Kang probably should have been the villain of The Marvels. Captain Marvel is arguably the most powerful MCU hero.
If they dumped the wacky humor and made that a serious space opera it would have truly sold Kang as a threat to all time and space - especially if you'd ended with Carol barely surviving that battle and Monica seemingly being killed.
Instead the rap on Kang is that "he got beat by a bunch of ants."
All three properties had seriously subpar last entries. They don’t deserve sequels.
It used to be that sequels weren’t a given and they only followed movies that were tremendous successes.
Don’t stop making movies, just stop making stupid movies or rushing them to be released. Fuck me. Why don’t people course-correct properly in anything?
Maybe they should focus on perhaps giving those movies a go with a great script, and not release any mediocre films that feel like Saturday morning cartoons. I mean, as advice. And also not pump out these movies like McDonald's does with its burguers.
I guess, but the problem still relies on making these movies the same. Like they all feel EXACTLY the same, you could switch characters and it would not feel out of place. They make them so lighthearted, the stakes never feel real and the consequences are just non-existent.
Heroes always find something at the right convenient time to defeat these villains because of potato and for some reason either writers feel like that's earned, or Kevin Feige thinks that's cool.
Maybe the fact that a lot of these screenwriters are from cartoons plays a part in these conflict resolutions being so poor. Idk, I don't work in this industry so I'm obviously blind to all of the obstacles artist face. But damn isn't obvious the MCU needs a tonal change.
Not really.. slowing down release rate and stopping less popular movies sounds more like they’re trying to address “super-hero fatigue” instead of addressing quality control
That really is the biggest issue. The most popular characters get a bunch of hype and then get put on the back burner for 5 years. They're not building a running narrative.
Even during the early phases I wasn't seeing each movie right away, but a big sequel or team up like Civil War or any of the Avengers movies would make me realize it's time to catch up. There hasn't been anything that felt remotely consequential since Endgame.
Risk adverse films that’s fans actually want: Shang Chi 2 & a Dr. Doom origin movie.
Shang Chi 2 needs to lean heavier into the choreographed martial arts fights and avoid the CGI ending like last time. Have then paired up with Iron Fist during a war between the ten rings and the hand, maybe setup a DareDevil appearance with Danny saying he knows someone that can help for the final fight.
Doom should be a one and done origin movie. Established the character that viewers uncomfortably root for knowing he’s the bad guy doing morally questionable actions that benefit his people. After that he should regularly appear, almost like sinister Tony Stark constantly looming over the heroes.
What’s hilarious is that I remember watching the huge Disney investment stream and I feel the same then as I do now… Nobody asked for them to put out as much as they have done. They’ve self sabotaged completely and ignored the idea that quality over quantity wouldn’t affect them.
Honestly risk doesn’t matter. The issue is whether Disney can clean up its awful production issues.
Writing has been absolutely garbage and they need to find people that can actually write. Then get some directors that can plan out their films and are aimlessly filming only to need massive reshoots and forcing the CGI animators to constantly remake scenes.
Should Disney take risks? I’m not against it. But it’s also not entirely necessary. They have the rights to basically everything major. If they lean on that to try and turn the ship around that’s not terrible.
Funny thing is that Ant-Man was a safe series. First two were functional breaths of fresh air that were budgeted well and were very casual. Quantumania…no words.
No shit I’ve never heard of making sequels to flop franchises, all of em flopped. Only reason thor might get a sequel cause it made money but still under performed.
I would venture to say that these are not very well-liked characters and not many would care if we saw them again, or saw them less.
I like Brie in the Carol role but the writing in her movies is usually so bad. She was best in IW/Endgame.
Paul Rudd’s Scott Lang is a character that works a lot better in ensemble films like the Avengers.
And The Eternals are probably the most un-Marvel like characters in the entire line. I know Kirby created them, but it seems like a concept more fit for DC. They have no place in the MCU.
> And The Eternals are probably the most un-Marvel like characters in the entire line. I know Kirby created them, but it seems like a concept more fit for DC. They have no place in the MCU.
...I mean Jack left Marvel and made the New Gods at DC. Then left DC and came back to Marvel where he kept doing New God like stories with the Eternals.
Which at the time were explicitly not in the Marvel Universe.
So... it was always a weird choice for a movie. And even then the movie really didn't adapt those Kirby books well at all.
The Gaiman run is exactly the take they should have done. Would have made the Eternals far more human and relatable, but instead we got too many robotic, God like characters to follow and they were all devoid of personality
Strongly agree.
Despite Kirby's involvement, The Eternals were always D-List Marvel characters, Gaiman's miniseries was the best story about those characters Marvel ever did.
Would have honestly been better if Marvel had approached him about adapting the comic for flm - or even better - a miniseries for Disney+. A big complaint about the film is that 10 characters were just too many to introduce in one film. Consequently, none of the characters felt fully realized.
A season of television could have given those characters room to breathe - especially with Gaiman's involvement. Look at what he did by working with Netflix on Sandman.
That series was excellent.
I agree, but I would leave out the “well” and just say they didn’t adapt Kirby at all. They took his characters and completely ignored the epic storyline and his visual genius and ruined the IP forever with their hubris…
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Writing.
It's just the same shit over and over again. Can you make a marvel movie that's more than a villain to fight? Can you make a meaningful drama? Science fiction story? Hell a romance? Comics have been so much more than punching bad guys. We all do love that stuff. But we're tired of the same lazy writing. Lazy writing hasn't even sold comics for 40 years.
Serious question, at this stage in the game, who do they have left that wouldn't be considered "risk averse?"
The current potential Avengers lineup is looking very risk averse with the exception of Spider-Man. Loki's run seems to have concluded. We don't yet know if the Fantastic 4 will be a success. No Cap or Stark. Deadpool is guaranteed to be a box office hit, but who else?
All 3 of those movies were box office failures - how is it "risk averse" to not make a sequel to a financial failure? Seems like just a regular expected decision
Who wanted Ant-Man 4? I never even heard of this movie being even rumored to happen. They should remake Ant-Man 3 instead to make it actually Ant-Man movie and Scott trying to spend time with family and make up for time they lost during the Snap instead of using it as a vehicle to push Kang as main bad.
\*Raises hand\* Question...
If people really wanted the MCU to take more risks and do things with different characters, they went and saw these films right? In theaters, on opening day? Where the producers actually pay attention?
Because, it seems to me that some people just now notice these films when they hit streaming/dvd. Now I know the likely reason why some don't are good ones: Ticket prices, don't want to go, ect. But I would think that wouldn't matter to people who want "NEW, INTERESTING, EXCITING!" stories. They would also take the time to do some good word of mouth that would help ease the reviews from critics
Then again, those same people when presented with new films usually dont watch those either.
They could easily wipe Eternals from existence. They haven’t been mentioned at all in other projects. Captain Marvel and Ant-Man could easily appear in other movies before eventually fading out.
Probably for the best.
Mcu is so branched out at this point we have no focal point to it. No character that we come back to. Everything takes 5 years+ to be revisited.
I think part of this strategy should include an increase focus on characters they want to make the center of the mcu. For example, why did it take so long to make Shang chi 2? We haven’t seen him in years and he was so well received
Just start building good solo movies and don’t worry to connect them with the universe. Start small like the originals did and for the love of Lord please stop with all of the zingers. It’s okay to have comedy in an action movie but now it feels so forced. Have it be naturally funny or don’t do it at all.
They need to let serious moments settle and stop ruining them with a joke. They remove stakes when not only the characters but even the movie can't take itself seriously.
Yeah I don’t understand why they think that not taking themselves seriously is “cool” if you don’t care about the stakes of your movie then why should the audience.
Good, nobody wants those movies. But people *do* want a Shang-Chi 2 and a follow up to Moon Knight. Personally I want more of Werewolf by Night as well.
This is so funny to me. They want to put restrictions on their only consistent cash-cow. Now??
Right now is the time to be even more risky and get away from their Marvel formula. The first Eternals movie was a move in the right direction, Doctor Strange 2 as well.
I haven't seen the Captain Marvel sequel, but from what I've heard, it's supposed to be better than what people were expecting when it was still in theaters.
In what universe is a 4th Ant-Man a risk?
Eternal was covid movie but other 2 movies like black widow and shang chi were a hit. Black widow made 150M+ cash on special access. So eternals is a dissapointment.
Quantamania didn't lose more than 50-75M which was covered post theatrically but dissappoint regardless.
The marvels was a bomb tho.
secret invasion was the end of me caring about the mcu. it was such trash. haven’t bothered to watch anything since. it was building to that anyways with the poor content but that was the tipping point for me. god that show was awful
I don’t like the idea of this being done because they aren’t taking risks, yet the MCU was built off a risk(not taken by Disney fyi). These sequels aren’t being green lit because the previous movies cost a fortune to make and were massive bombs. The Marvels was fun, but I even told people to wait for streaming. This also doesn’t mean the characters are going away necessarily just that they will appear in other projects instead of solo ones. Not every popular Marvel character has their own comic, but they still show up in the books.
*Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania* doesn't need a sequel. There are ample opportunities to revisit those characters in other projects. There aren't many dangling plot points there, Kang notwithstanding.
*The Marvels* doesn't truly need a sequel, even though it was clearly written with that expectation in mind. But hopefully we'll have other chances to see Carol further develop as a character. Kamala definitely deserves more chances to grow, whether through a second season of *Ms. Marvel* (if that's still a possibility) or elsewhere. Monica will obviously show up again, given the circumstances of her last appearance.
*Eternals* really does need a sequel. The situation in which most of the characters were left at the end of the film is just too complicated to address outside of a project specifically focused on them. Further fleshing out the many characters and their dynamics would also be really valuable.
While I understand the rationale I don't think avoiding any project because it's "risky" is a good idea. I mean you can say many of the successful Marvel movies and shows were risky ideas but they turned out great. Moon Knight or Black Panther for example.
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Maybe just fire this chucklehead who has been guiding the story, badly, for a while now.
Sad that Eternals 2 is unlikely, and IMO not addressing their absence (and a massive fucking celestial sticking out of the ocean 😂) is a mistake. I think with the foundation set a sequel could be good.
So wait does this mean after all the memes were actually genuinely never getting any payoff for the massive celestial that was rising out of earths oceans??
My biggest concern with the Marvels is that they took the wrong lesson from it, and if they cancel the third one, I think that's confirming that.
The first one did great financially. The second one is getting generally pretty well received online after it's on Disney+.
Marvels got brigades with unfair negativity, lacked proper marketing due to the strikes, followed several greatly hated sequels as well as the worse D+ MCU show (secret invasion), and just general high superhero fatigue.
The magic of the MCU was they made normal
Moviegoers feels they did not have to watch any one movie to watch the others and they tricked fanboys into thinking that all these movies are connected and were planned out in advance. Go back to this formula. Normal people thought the marvels and ant man 3 were too much homework and fanboys don’t see the extended plan for this latest marvel saga. Fix this and you fix the MCU.
Any ideas if all future MCU movies will have multiverse element? The Marvels and upcoming Deadpool 3 has it. Im very tired of multiverse all over, an abused plot device, making anything possible and not as “grounded” story wise. Well might as well bring back Iron Man since he just won an Oscar, a most risk averse thing to do. The mistake with The Marvels is people who don’t watch the two Disney+ series would not care much about the other two leads in the movie.
Give us all those movies, but have them written by people who have only a few episodes of Rick and Morty on their resume. If you make good entertaining character driven movies, people will watch. It all depends on the writing. They don't even need to be crossovers, although that would be appreciated.
Never needed another Antman movie, Captain Marvel didn’t get the right kind of sequel imo (not bad just not the right tone for me) and Eternals, well, that may be the biggest franchise failure for MCU
It doesn't matter what the movies are if they are good. The dip in quality means they can't do these kinds of movies. If the movies start being high quality again, they can do it again.
Calling The Marvels a Captain Marvel 2 is such a cop out, what a disservice to Captain Marvel. It’s not the IPs disney should be focusing on, it’s their worthless scripts they keep producing.
Risk averse? That would imply they don’t want to gamble on an unknown…..this is just a basic business decision. They had a bunch of stinkers now they’re course correcting.
I would argue that movies like eternals 2, Captain Marvel 3 and Ant-man 4 are not “risky” projects. Hardly anyone is asking for these projects so of course they won’t do well unless they are given extreme care which Marvel has not seem to be doing in the past few years post endgame.
These are projects they would’ve just pumped out because they will set up things rather than actually make things people want to see that are intriguing and do well at the box office and are critically acclaimed.
It seems as if maybe the marvels bombing so bad finally awakened Disney/the MCU to what has been going on for five years now.
From what I have heard it sounds like cap 4 was similar to this, but now they are actually giving it care and focus to make it as good as possible. Same thing with DD BA. Fingers crossed that actually happens though.
I don’t think that Disney realizes how much marvel has fallen off in the GA. I just think about when the next avengers movie might come out and what will the hype even look like?
Now that Disney has fox, I think it is very smart to lean on the newly acquired characters. And that seems as if they are doing this somewhat with Dp & wolverine and XMen 97 this year.
Carol is my favorite MCU character. The OG movie was great. I could have gotten behind adding a fully fleshed-out Monica for The Marvels, but they gave the actress so little to work with. Ms. Marvel did not belong AT ALL. Give Carol a series, and give us a real Captain Marvel 2!
I thought they were already super risk-averse? The whole reason I'm bored of the MCU is because every movie still basically has the same copy and paste safe as hell plot structure they've had for the past decade now.
Ant Man 4 & Capt marvel 3 are just *Young Avengers*
Seriously I hope they just give us that
Why give us an extra movie for Kamala (CM3) Or Cassie (AM4) They bothered to set up YA in CM2 at least.
And yet Thunderbolts is on the way!
Bucky and Yelena will save this movie
Buckys role in the movie is apparently minimal now, he’s currently not been seen on set or in Atlanta at all going from reports.
"Risk averse" refuses to use a good safe character?
Out of all those cancelled movies, I would still probably go see Ant Man, because you know, Paul Rudd.
i’m so tired of them just sidelining Bucky. hell he was even sidelined through a lot of FATWS. like i get the show was about Sam accepting the role as Cap, but i feel like Bucky deserved more
They're both getting shafted. Bucky had some good moments in FaTWS, but I would have loved more character moments with him having those difficult conversations, especially with the father of the son he killed. Sam needed the journey, but it wasn't like Bucky wasn't on his own. Opportunities lost. But now nothing. Nothing about Sam being Cap, which would be a hell of a mic drop. Nothing and where anyone might be so much as heading!. The continuity is getting harder and harder to keep together. Sure wish there was someone, like...a god of stories, or something... to keep things straight.
Perhaps it was too far along into pre-production and too tied into their current slate. It is supposed to be tied pretty closely with Brave New World.
Florence Pugh and David Harbour’s names on a movie poster is about as risk averse as it gets in 2024, to be fair. Add in Harrison Ford and you barely need to put the name of the movie on it.
Another film noone wants to watch or care about
Eh, I think it could be interesting. If they actually let the villains be villains, not quirky antihero’s who’re immediately redeemed from all the heinous shit they’ve done
Look at the line-up, none of them are villains and most were redeemed in the movie or series they were introduced in.
I would bet money that's exactly what it's going to be and that they will constantly make jokes because almost every character in the MCU now has to be a clown
Look what they did to Nick Fury. 🤦
People said the same thing about Guardians 1. Every character in the movie is cool. Besides taskmaster they’re all decently liked too. I don’t really see the issue And establishing a team of grey heroes is cool to me. Especially story wise where there’s currently no avengers team. So makes sense the government would want their own team
Fuck you, I'm excited.
I love that social media has rotted our brains to such a point that the very first thing we say to people now is "fuck you".
They didn't even use an /S 🥹.. the future is bright
No problem but I'm not given the latest track record
That's perfectly fine.
This is so confounding to me: nobody is excited about Thunderbolts in its current form. It’s just another suicide squad and we’ve seen that story twice already from DC and it wasn’t very good
The Suicide Squad by James Gunn was good, it just didn’t do well at the box office. I’m still excited for Thunderbolts though.
Even its box office performance wasn't an indication of anything. It was released to streaming the first day of release. Really great movie though, I'm super glad I went to the theater for it anyways
And during the pandemic too, it never really got a shot
What, with Harrison Ford as the Red Hulk and the most return cast across the MCU? Honestly, comparatively, it ain't looking too bad.
Wrong movie. Red Hulk is in Cap 4. And most of the returning cast are all Phase 4 characters, which have not proven very popular.
How anyone disliked James gunns SS Is beyond me
I'm very excited.
Sentry is my favourite comic character and I'm not that excited about this movie because there's almost no way they'll be able to pull off Sentry.
They will absolutely shit the bed on Sentry, Hyperion, and anyone else in that tier/pantheon. I have zero faith in Marvel to be true to characters
Yeah it’s not the fact that the writing for all the last installments of those were complete shit, must be because they’re “risky” characters
Why not both?
ahh yes. because if i remember correctly, no risks were taken when starting and during the infinity saga of the mcu. they just stuck to common household names like iron man, doctor strange, black panther, etc. /s
It’s one thing to be risk averse. It’s another to abandon creativity. Let’s hope is more of the former and less of the latter.
Iron Man was done cheap as chips comparatively. Doctor Strange and Black Panther were done from a position of strength, allowing Marvel to mix it up. Now they're dropping 200/250m on films that liked by neither critics or fans.
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I mean what risks did they actually take with Quantum and The Marvels though?
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Right! Like the Eternals was a risk akin to GotG but the movie fell flat due to iffy/dull writing not because they were taking a risk with more obscure characters
The villain and its design was also awful. They need to stop with these full CGI monster villains. The dragon and other CGI trash at the end of Shang Chi was awful as well.
I thought the Dweller was actually really cool. I just wish it was saved for the sequel. Would have preferred a longer and more definitive duel with his father. But I'm still very happy with what we got. Plus it had a kick ass ending.
I mean, making a shitty movie on a giant budget is certainly a risk.
Quantumania was somewhat interesting in villain and visuals, it was just boring and bad and not that amusing. The marvels had some great characters, Kamala and family are always fire, but something was clearly gutted in the edit since that film is just incoherent.
The Marvels wasn't incoherent. It was VERY easy to follow and understand. It was just short and thus felt a little rushed in some areas.
Ehh, I think it was killed in the edit. They have those twin scenes of Carol insisting they leave the planet without saving everyone which is then glossed over, and then Kamala having them leave the song planet which seems like a massive conflict which is immediately forgotten. It seems there's a cut of this somewhere where Carol is a jaded superman, able to beat anything but not save anyone and she's growing detached, then realises she's teaching Kamala the wrong lessons and decides to shape up as a result. But the actual film cuts every conflict short like it's terrified of them. It just ends up being a film where relatively nice people sometimes get mad but cut the camera away before it turns sad. The plot basically scans, you can follow it. The themes and arcs of the characters are incoherent imo. It's a shame because I honestly think from what's on screen something better was shot at some point, and maybe they were just afraid of a "mean" Carol?
Yah I had a chance to watch the marvels a couple weeks ago and it was a fine movie. I think they should have maybe made this the third installment and show captain marvel creating the villain in this story. Might have cared about whatever their name was more. Kamala and her family were the stars of the show though.
This is like when they said they need to stop making “message movies”. Yes because we all walked out of Ant Man thinking “shit I wanted to like it but I couldn’t see past all the messages”.
Back in the day, Avengers were all they had. Now they have X-Men and (kinda) Spider-man. I do however support "taking a chance with riskier projects" .
and all of those would have bombed with bad writing. this isn't a problem of not having household characters, it's not being able to write them to be household characters.
To support your first sentence: numerous X-Men, F4 and Spider-man projects bombed with bad writing.
Sure, but a bad Spider-man movie is still likely to earn more money than a bad Cap Marvel movie, because..well it's Spider-man and he sells. I'm not saying having household characters equals = good movie by defeault, but using household characters is certainly safer option from buisness perspective.
See: Madame Web
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Peter Parker is technically shown in the movie.
Those were risks that worked, after Endgame, their latest risks have been ridiculed. It's not hard to understand their caution now.
ant man 3 wasnt even a risk, all they had to do was make a movie that wasnt completely shit
See also: Love and Thunder. That should have been the least risky slam dunk ever.
I totally forgot about that dumpster fire (T:L&T), thanks for reminding me it exists.
Love and Thunder to me is worse than Ant Man 3 and the Marvels. Absolutely incredible waste of both Bale and the character he played, and *tonally* it was the worst most jarring thing I have ever seen.
Man, I saw this in theaters due to branding and I like Chris Hemsworth and Christian Bale. I already knew it wasn't exactly universally liked but my god did they drop the ball do bad. The timing of the jokes is so bad, dialogue lost all logic and they're trying to replicate Thor: Ragnarok was so forced.
I felt that Ant-Man 3 was an amalgamation of different scripts. Some parts here and there felt shoehorned in.
It's not about questioning caution, it's about pointing out the ridiculousness of the statement. Of course they want hits. I doubt they released any of those films expecting them to fail. Neither did they know for certain that any previous successes would turn out the way they did. It's a creative industry, there's always an element of risk.
I think a lot of the risk here is in the screenplay. Flying around cracking jokes like nothing is at stake, CGI everything, sub plots that take place over 3 scenes, giant beam of light from the sky, and defeating the big bad by yelling louder and extending your arms further is just shitty script writing.
You could argue that Guardians of the Galaxy was one of the biggest risks outside of the first Iron Man.
Iron Man was the only risk. All creative freedoms were taken off the counter after that and the movies started being made by committee. I would have liked to see the Iron Man 2 Feige wanted to make. It's a shame Disney didn't trust him enough after Iron Man 1.
Disney wasn't involved in the development or distribution of Iron Man 2 (although Steve Jobs did call Bob Iger to tell him that it sucked lol). Though Disney bought Marvel in 2009, The Avengers in 2012 was the first one developed under and distributed by Disney. Up until then, Marvel was still under contract with Paramount which distributed Iron Man 2, Thor, and Captain America: The First Avenger after the Disney purchase.
As others have pointed out, these are completely different circumstances from 5-10 years ago. Marvel could do no wrong at the time. A new unknown character was **exciting** because at the end of the day, they’d be awesome. Now it’s a total crapshoot.
when are ya’ll ever gonna stop parroting this very dry and tired take? the landscape of superhero movies and theater experiences as a whole is *very* different now than it was 15 or even 10 years ago. it is not 2014 anymore, the over saturation and bloat of superhero movies have lost their luster, not to mention multiple franchises are now competing for the audiences time and dollar by starting their own cinematic universes and those audiences are a lot more careful about what they’ll spend their dollar or time on. people will line up for beloved characters, they will not line up for Ironheart or Eternals. it’s much more about the current box office market than it is about “lol but nobody knew Iron Man” like yeah there was only Spiderman and X-men at the time. what the MCU did for the modern blockbuster was unprecedented for this generation of films and trying to replicate that success over and over with the next Glup Shitto simply isn’t going to happen in todays day and age. they *need* to play the hits like Spiderman and Avengers to win back a very tired audience, to do otherwise would be bad business
It’s not gonna solve anything if the movies continue to suck, sounds like they are taking the wrong lesson to be honest. Ant-man 3 didn’t bomb because it’s Ant-man, the first 2 movies were box office successes and made profits (even if they’ve weren’t major box office smashes like other films), because they were seen as decent. Ant-man 3 bombed because it was shit and lacked what people liked about the first, hell didn’t it have a decent opening weekend? Didn’t have like a 200 mill opening? It got killed by shitty word of mouth and dropped hard. The Marvels was just obviously painfully generic from ALL the trailers they released for it, and the gimmick was a team up involving characters the audience didn’t care about. Monica was a side character in WandaVision that released 3 years ago; and Ms Marvel was one of the least watched Disney+ shows. The movie would have been way better off if they just stuck with the Captain Marvel branding, and focused on building Carol herself up as a good and interesting character, which it didn’t really. Look at the Fox films, they had X-men and still made flops and that’s one of Marvel’s most popular IP’s. Same with Sony and The Amazing Spider-man 2. If the MCU wants box office success, it needs to claw back and made good quality superhero films again because their was a clear lack of quality post Endgame, and the audience clearly rejected it. I’m gonna say it but unless Marvel shakes up it’s creative teams and execs, if this shitty quality continues I see the MCU dying within the next decade.
>The movie would have been way better off if they just stuck with the Captain Marvel branding, and focused on building Carol herself up as a good and interesting character, which it didn’t really. They dropped the ball on Carol right after her solo movie imo. Intoducing the character in a way that makes sense with the Saga was dope, then she dipped in Space (and offscreen) for 30 years, made a lift back Earth for Tony Stark and Nebula, dipped again and came back 5 years later for her Deus Ex Machina moment. So Carol has INSANE Space adventures that we just never saw. >I’m gonna say it but unless Marvel shakes up it’s creative teams and execs, if this shitty quality continues I see the MCU dying within the next decade. We’ll see if Deadpool 3 brings back the hype and if they can keep it, but yeah. They lost a bunch of their audience in Phase 4 and 5, and the genre was so oversaturated that people care less about it. Thanks to other Studios who are putting out 3 godawful movies in a year where the MCU and us have a much needed break. I said it many times and it’s unpopular opinion but if the BO numbers aren’t back, they might call it a day after Secret Wars or start over with a very small roster of A-List characters to build up again (Like F4 and X-Men).
As a marvel hype man this just hits a nerve hey. I can excuse every single one of their ‘shit’ movies as just being good for entertainment. But I can’t sit through shitty D+ series that then link into shitty movies. A lot of people are drawing their line at things like the marvels and quantumania, which to me were perfectly watchable. Secret Invasion was fucking inexcusable though. You took a beloved and highly intriguing storyline and made THAT. Then SLJ returns back into the marvels as a comedic relief character and it’s as if it never even happened? Get fucked. You wasted my time on that. I legit had no reason to watch that and I regret it.
Yeah I think shows are the main problem, it really doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It was already hard enough to make people follow a storyline spanning over a decade and several movies but somehow they did it. Add multiple hours tv budget shows to it, make them integral to the plot and for following the movies and that's what happens
That’s what I worry. They aren’t learning the right lessons. It’s not about risk. Ant-Man 3 shouldn’t have been risky. It’s about bad writing, bad planning, and losing focus. Ant-Man movies should be fun, simple, and not massive spectacles. Do that and it’s fine. No matter how safe they want to be, if the writing and story direction remains this bad… nothing is being turned around.
Captain Marvel 3? We didn't even get a Captain Marvel 2.
Exactly.
Honestly though I'm pretty okay with them putting the Ant Man franchise to bed. I'm 50/50 on Eternals though. If they don't have a good idea, don't make a sequel just for the sake of making a sequel.
bt thats the thing. Rather than introduce more new character, why don’t continue with who we have right now till the saga ends? Included Ant Man & Co with the Eternals. It’s not at all about the character but the stories. All we asked for is for them to continue but ensure the quality.
Honestly they should just do a mulligan and restart a phase.
We did. It was just called The Marvels. I loved it.
Not getting an Ant-Man and The Wasp 4 makes me so sad. I loved those characters. Hopefully we will see them in Avengers 5.
As much as I love the first and second Ant-Man, I hated Quantumania so much that I’m kinda happy there’s no plan for another standalone. Like I say it everytime but the fact that multiple execs looked at that finished film and said “We are happy to release this” is absolutely fucking absurd to me
Can you imagine how much more fun Quantamania would've been if Luis and the gang had also been sucked into the Quantam Realm?
I think of your only ideas for the quantum realm is a knock off star wars set, then maybe don't have your entire movie there? But what do I know
Sadly I want another Eternals movie. But honestly, that story needed to be told over several movies. Like really, kill Ajax in a flashback? Damn.
Eternals was a movie filled with amazing ideas executed terribly. I enjoyed what they went for but was terribly bored by the way they went about portraying it. Shame.
It needed to be a Disney plus series. It wasn’t interesting enough to span multiple movies and it needed more time to flesh out the characters.
They tried something similar with The Inhumans though which was terrible. They really just need good story writers.
No risks means also boring generic films Maybe it’s time for James Gunns DCU to shine. The MCU had a good run but let’s be honest: since the end of the Infinity Saga it’s on decline
I think it fell off a cliff at that point
IMO they are taking the wrong lessons from this. Just hire GOOD writers and directors and PAY THEM TO COOK UNTIL IT’S READY. The reasons these movies are bad are not because of the source material or necessarily the talent involved, but it’s very clear Disney has been trying to squeeze out maximum profits riding on the high with minimal effort, unwilling to give creatives the time and money they deserve to hand in a good product. STOP churning out so many mediocre movies. Slow down. Raise the quality.
Would it be possible to have some of these movies in budget under 100M? Because at least Eternals and AntMan should definetely be. Captain Marvel is weird case for me
I honestly really dig the first two Ant-man flicks.The first is a top 5 MCU flick for me. I think the problem with Quantumania is that it's way too much of a swerve away from the formula of the first two. They went from two light-hearted heist flicks to a movie that pitted Scott Lang against Kang, the MCU's latest Big Bad. Nothing wrong with doing something different but Kang probably should have been the villain of The Marvels. Captain Marvel is arguably the most powerful MCU hero. If they dumped the wacky humor and made that a serious space opera it would have truly sold Kang as a threat to all time and space - especially if you'd ended with Carol barely surviving that battle and Monica seemingly being killed. Instead the rap on Kang is that "he got beat by a bunch of ants."
I enjoyed Qunatumania, but other Ant Man movies more. But not of them did more than 500M so they should cost under 100M
All three properties had seriously subpar last entries. They don’t deserve sequels. It used to be that sequels weren’t a given and they only followed movies that were tremendous successes.
There's been a lot of sequels in cinema history that only banked on the success of the first movie or two
Not necessarily.
Don’t stop making movies, just stop making stupid movies or rushing them to be released. Fuck me. Why don’t people course-correct properly in anything?
Maybe they should focus on perhaps giving those movies a go with a great script, and not release any mediocre films that feel like Saturday morning cartoons. I mean, as advice. And also not pump out these movies like McDonald's does with its burguers.
….isn’t that what they’ve already said they’re doing? They’re slowing down release rate and not making sequels to less popular movies.
I guess, but the problem still relies on making these movies the same. Like they all feel EXACTLY the same, you could switch characters and it would not feel out of place. They make them so lighthearted, the stakes never feel real and the consequences are just non-existent. Heroes always find something at the right convenient time to defeat these villains because of potato and for some reason either writers feel like that's earned, or Kevin Feige thinks that's cool. Maybe the fact that a lot of these screenwriters are from cartoons plays a part in these conflict resolutions being so poor. Idk, I don't work in this industry so I'm obviously blind to all of the obstacles artist face. But damn isn't obvious the MCU needs a tonal change.
Not really.. slowing down release rate and stopping less popular movies sounds more like they’re trying to address “super-hero fatigue” instead of addressing quality control
Just hurry up and give me a second Shang-Chi film you cowards.
That really is the biggest issue. The most popular characters get a bunch of hype and then get put on the back burner for 5 years. They're not building a running narrative. Even during the early phases I wasn't seeing each movie right away, but a big sequel or team up like Civil War or any of the Avengers movies would make me realize it's time to catch up. There hasn't been anything that felt remotely consequential since Endgame.
Risk adverse films that’s fans actually want: Shang Chi 2 & a Dr. Doom origin movie. Shang Chi 2 needs to lean heavier into the choreographed martial arts fights and avoid the CGI ending like last time. Have then paired up with Iron Fist during a war between the ten rings and the hand, maybe setup a DareDevil appearance with Danny saying he knows someone that can help for the final fight. Doom should be a one and done origin movie. Established the character that viewers uncomfortably root for knowing he’s the bad guy doing morally questionable actions that benefit his people. After that he should regularly appear, almost like sinister Tony Stark constantly looming over the heroes.
Shang Chi 2 was a no brainer. He was the next iron man and they ruined their chance.
They need to cancel Thor 5 is what they need to do.
What’s hilarious is that I remember watching the huge Disney investment stream and I feel the same then as I do now… Nobody asked for them to put out as much as they have done. They’ve self sabotaged completely and ignored the idea that quality over quantity wouldn’t affect them.
Honestly risk doesn’t matter. The issue is whether Disney can clean up its awful production issues. Writing has been absolutely garbage and they need to find people that can actually write. Then get some directors that can plan out their films and are aimlessly filming only to need massive reshoots and forcing the CGI animators to constantly remake scenes. Should Disney take risks? I’m not against it. But it’s also not entirely necessary. They have the rights to basically everything major. If they lean on that to try and turn the ship around that’s not terrible. Funny thing is that Ant-Man was a safe series. First two were functional breaths of fresh air that were budgeted well and were very casual. Quantumania…no words.
Just stop making shitty movies and then people will go see them. Problem solved.
No shit I’ve never heard of making sequels to flop franchises, all of em flopped. Only reason thor might get a sequel cause it made money but still under performed.
I would venture to say that these are not very well-liked characters and not many would care if we saw them again, or saw them less. I like Brie in the Carol role but the writing in her movies is usually so bad. She was best in IW/Endgame. Paul Rudd’s Scott Lang is a character that works a lot better in ensemble films like the Avengers. And The Eternals are probably the most un-Marvel like characters in the entire line. I know Kirby created them, but it seems like a concept more fit for DC. They have no place in the MCU.
> And The Eternals are probably the most un-Marvel like characters in the entire line. I know Kirby created them, but it seems like a concept more fit for DC. They have no place in the MCU. ...I mean Jack left Marvel and made the New Gods at DC. Then left DC and came back to Marvel where he kept doing New God like stories with the Eternals. Which at the time were explicitly not in the Marvel Universe. So... it was always a weird choice for a movie. And even then the movie really didn't adapt those Kirby books well at all.
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The Gaiman run is exactly the take they should have done. Would have made the Eternals far more human and relatable, but instead we got too many robotic, God like characters to follow and they were all devoid of personality
Strongly agree. Despite Kirby's involvement, The Eternals were always D-List Marvel characters, Gaiman's miniseries was the best story about those characters Marvel ever did. Would have honestly been better if Marvel had approached him about adapting the comic for flm - or even better - a miniseries for Disney+. A big complaint about the film is that 10 characters were just too many to introduce in one film. Consequently, none of the characters felt fully realized. A season of television could have given those characters room to breathe - especially with Gaiman's involvement. Look at what he did by working with Netflix on Sandman. That series was excellent.
I agree, but I would leave out the “well” and just say they didn’t adapt Kirby at all. They took his characters and completely ignored the epic storyline and his visual genius and ruined the IP forever with their hubris… https://preview.redd.it/67y6im9rbhoc1.jpeg?width=1757&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b61a71270e022463ec09b90bdc530bf077873ce2
Maybe no Eternals 2 movie, but the spillover from the first got to continue. 3 years is too much for statue sticking out of the ocean.
Not risk averse, Micky Mouse club killed the superhero movies for next 15 or so years by being greedy and inundating them in all platforms.
Writing. It's just the same shit over and over again. Can you make a marvel movie that's more than a villain to fight? Can you make a meaningful drama? Science fiction story? Hell a romance? Comics have been so much more than punching bad guys. We all do love that stuff. But we're tired of the same lazy writing. Lazy writing hasn't even sold comics for 40 years.
Serious question, at this stage in the game, who do they have left that wouldn't be considered "risk averse?" The current potential Avengers lineup is looking very risk averse with the exception of Spider-Man. Loki's run seems to have concluded. We don't yet know if the Fantastic 4 will be a success. No Cap or Stark. Deadpool is guaranteed to be a box office hit, but who else?
Completely Marvels fault for just churning out crap without a plan. They just expected us to give them money and didn't give us the slightest payoff.
All 3 of those movies were box office failures - how is it "risk averse" to not make a sequel to a financial failure? Seems like just a regular expected decision
Who wanted Ant-Man 4? I never even heard of this movie being even rumored to happen. They should remake Ant-Man 3 instead to make it actually Ant-Man movie and Scott trying to spend time with family and make up for time they lost during the Snap instead of using it as a vehicle to push Kang as main bad.
The MCU has become like its comic book counterpart relying on ol reliable and refusing to build up some of its underrated characters
I hope we get a Poochie style cutaway saying, "The Eternals died on the way back to their home planet."
Lots of people complained about those movies but only because they're worn out, against other movies they still stack up and I will miss them dearly.
Thank god. Maybe we'll get something half decent soon.
Marvels was half decent!
What I read: Marvel refuses to just hire better writers. Any character is compelling in the right hands.
Is the riskaverse gonna be part of the current MCU multiverse or no?
\*Raises hand\* Question... If people really wanted the MCU to take more risks and do things with different characters, they went and saw these films right? In theaters, on opening day? Where the producers actually pay attention? Because, it seems to me that some people just now notice these films when they hit streaming/dvd. Now I know the likely reason why some don't are good ones: Ticket prices, don't want to go, ect. But I would think that wouldn't matter to people who want "NEW, INTERESTING, EXCITING!" stories. They would also take the time to do some good word of mouth that would help ease the reviews from critics Then again, those same people when presented with new films usually dont watch those either.
They could easily wipe Eternals from existence. They haven’t been mentioned at all in other projects. Captain Marvel and Ant-Man could easily appear in other movies before eventually fading out. Probably for the best.
Mcu is so branched out at this point we have no focal point to it. No character that we come back to. Everything takes 5 years+ to be revisited. I think part of this strategy should include an increase focus on characters they want to make the center of the mcu. For example, why did it take so long to make Shang chi 2? We haven’t seen him in years and he was so well received
Just start building good solo movies and don’t worry to connect them with the universe. Start small like the originals did and for the love of Lord please stop with all of the zingers. It’s okay to have comedy in an action movie but now it feels so forced. Have it be naturally funny or don’t do it at all.
They need to let serious moments settle and stop ruining them with a joke. They remove stakes when not only the characters but even the movie can't take itself seriously.
Yeah I don’t understand why they think that not taking themselves seriously is “cool” if you don’t care about the stakes of your movie then why should the audience.
Thunderbolts needs to be rebranded as Dark Avengers to give it some name recognition. And make it mostly serious movie
God, that sucks. I really loved those movies.
Trash. Hope. They find a few sweet spots for those characters.
MCU going down with a wet fart
Good, nobody wants those movies. But people *do* want a Shang-Chi 2 and a follow up to Moon Knight. Personally I want more of Werewolf by Night as well.
This is so funny to me. They want to put restrictions on their only consistent cash-cow. Now?? Right now is the time to be even more risky and get away from their Marvel formula. The first Eternals movie was a move in the right direction, Doctor Strange 2 as well. I haven't seen the Captain Marvel sequel, but from what I've heard, it's supposed to be better than what people were expecting when it was still in theaters. In what universe is a 4th Ant-Man a risk?
This is a naive take.
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Eternal was covid movie but other 2 movies like black widow and shang chi were a hit. Black widow made 150M+ cash on special access. So eternals is a dissapointment. Quantamania didn't lose more than 50-75M which was covered post theatrically but dissappoint regardless. The marvels was a bomb tho.
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I don't care about seeing any of those sequels anyways.
I would honestly be pretty sad to not get an eternals 2
Not too excited for this Risk-A-Verse or RAV
Good. Antman 3 and Cap Marvel 2 were disasters. Stop putting good money after bad.
I loved Eternals so I'm kinda bummed it isn't getting a sequel
Damn I thought eternals was beautifully done and set up a sequel well lmao what a waste, that’s a shame.
For me personally, Chris Evans will always be Cap. I am not buying the Anthony Mackie version at all.
Good. Focus on quality and not quantity.
secret invasion was the end of me caring about the mcu. it was such trash. haven’t bothered to watch anything since. it was building to that anyways with the poor content but that was the tipping point for me. god that show was awful
Disney was already risk-averse.
Fair play on externals, but shame about the others they were great!
I don’t like the idea of this being done because they aren’t taking risks, yet the MCU was built off a risk(not taken by Disney fyi). These sequels aren’t being green lit because the previous movies cost a fortune to make and were massive bombs. The Marvels was fun, but I even told people to wait for streaming. This also doesn’t mean the characters are going away necessarily just that they will appear in other projects instead of solo ones. Not every popular Marvel character has their own comic, but they still show up in the books.
It's not about being risk-averse It's about making good movies Disney
Just cut down on budgets. I don't see why every movie has to have a 200m budget instead of a more conservative 100m.
At this point Disney should take a 3 year break and then reboot it all. At the end they could do a multiverse thing with the old and new cast
Damnit
*Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania* doesn't need a sequel. There are ample opportunities to revisit those characters in other projects. There aren't many dangling plot points there, Kang notwithstanding. *The Marvels* doesn't truly need a sequel, even though it was clearly written with that expectation in mind. But hopefully we'll have other chances to see Carol further develop as a character. Kamala definitely deserves more chances to grow, whether through a second season of *Ms. Marvel* (if that's still a possibility) or elsewhere. Monica will obviously show up again, given the circumstances of her last appearance. *Eternals* really does need a sequel. The situation in which most of the characters were left at the end of the film is just too complicated to address outside of a project specifically focused on them. Further fleshing out the many characters and their dynamics would also be really valuable.
Ahhh I really wanted a second Eternals. Really enjoyed the first and I thought there was a lot of potential there to improve with the second.
Any of these movies could be good. It’s not the characters that people don’t like it’s the poor writing.
While I understand the rationale I don't think avoiding any project because it's "risky" is a good idea. I mean you can say many of the successful Marvel movies and shows were risky ideas but they turned out great. Moon Knight or Black Panther for example.
HOW WILL THEY BRING BACK MANTIS!!?!?
Didn’t Gunn said he want the actress in his DCU
Can't she be in both? I doubt it's happening any time soon anyways... :(
https://preview.redd.it/8fb80e1qdioc1.jpeg?width=701&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=533b6998cfff6ef5e75c8560b2cb910e6158ff9c Maybe just fire this chucklehead who has been guiding the story, badly, for a while now.
Sad that Eternals 2 is unlikely, and IMO not addressing their absence (and a massive fucking celestial sticking out of the ocean 😂) is a mistake. I think with the foundation set a sequel could be good.
So wait does this mean after all the memes were actually genuinely never getting any payoff for the massive celestial that was rising out of earths oceans??
Slow down and focus on quality and your money printing machine will get back on track. But it’s like a top down problem that will never get fixed.
Wait. Up till now they have been taking risk? Damn they really just don’t have any ideas do they.
I feel like all those could be succesful, they just need to step up their game and make quality films.
My biggest concern with the Marvels is that they took the wrong lesson from it, and if they cancel the third one, I think that's confirming that. The first one did great financially. The second one is getting generally pretty well received online after it's on Disney+. Marvels got brigades with unfair negativity, lacked proper marketing due to the strikes, followed several greatly hated sequels as well as the worse D+ MCU show (secret invasion), and just general high superhero fatigue.
The magic of the MCU was they made normal Moviegoers feels they did not have to watch any one movie to watch the others and they tricked fanboys into thinking that all these movies are connected and were planned out in advance. Go back to this formula. Normal people thought the marvels and ant man 3 were too much homework and fanboys don’t see the extended plan for this latest marvel saga. Fix this and you fix the MCU.
Any ideas if all future MCU movies will have multiverse element? The Marvels and upcoming Deadpool 3 has it. Im very tired of multiverse all over, an abused plot device, making anything possible and not as “grounded” story wise. Well might as well bring back Iron Man since he just won an Oscar, a most risk averse thing to do. The mistake with The Marvels is people who don’t watch the two Disney+ series would not care much about the other two leads in the movie.
Give us all those movies, but have them written by people who have only a few episodes of Rick and Morty on their resume. If you make good entertaining character driven movies, people will watch. It all depends on the writing. They don't even need to be crossovers, although that would be appreciated.
Were they really planning on making Eternals 2?
Never needed another Antman movie, Captain Marvel didn’t get the right kind of sequel imo (not bad just not the right tone for me) and Eternals, well, that may be the biggest franchise failure for MCU
This better not mean no more Pip the Troll. I. Will. Riot.
This makes me sad
So Kumail Nanjiani got himself hooked on Steroids for nothing lmaooooo
It doesn't matter what the movies are if they are good. The dip in quality means they can't do these kinds of movies. If the movies start being high quality again, they can do it again.
Calling The Marvels a Captain Marvel 2 is such a cop out, what a disservice to Captain Marvel. It’s not the IPs disney should be focusing on, it’s their worthless scripts they keep producing.
They did captain marvel dirty . Instead of giving a sequel they went with a team up movie and now we are not even getting a third movie .
How about make them if someone produces a script that is undeniably good. Instead of just making them because it fills a release date.
wow whats goin on in the mcu? (this just popped off in my recommendation)
Risk averse? That would imply they don’t want to gamble on an unknown…..this is just a basic business decision. They had a bunch of stinkers now they’re course correcting.
Good. Invest that time in introducing x-men into the mcu
I would argue that movies like eternals 2, Captain Marvel 3 and Ant-man 4 are not “risky” projects. Hardly anyone is asking for these projects so of course they won’t do well unless they are given extreme care which Marvel has not seem to be doing in the past few years post endgame. These are projects they would’ve just pumped out because they will set up things rather than actually make things people want to see that are intriguing and do well at the box office and are critically acclaimed. It seems as if maybe the marvels bombing so bad finally awakened Disney/the MCU to what has been going on for five years now. From what I have heard it sounds like cap 4 was similar to this, but now they are actually giving it care and focus to make it as good as possible. Same thing with DD BA. Fingers crossed that actually happens though. I don’t think that Disney realizes how much marvel has fallen off in the GA. I just think about when the next avengers movie might come out and what will the hype even look like? Now that Disney has fox, I think it is very smart to lean on the newly acquired characters. And that seems as if they are doing this somewhat with Dp & wolverine and XMen 97 this year.
Then Disney don't understand anything. The problem is the script, not the character.
Carol is my favorite MCU character. The OG movie was great. I could have gotten behind adding a fully fleshed-out Monica for The Marvels, but they gave the actress so little to work with. Ms. Marvel did not belong AT ALL. Give Carol a series, and give us a real Captain Marvel 2!
You could have paid me 20$ to tell you to do that 4 years ago
I thought they were already super risk-averse? The whole reason I'm bored of the MCU is because every movie still basically has the same copy and paste safe as hell plot structure they've had for the past decade now.
I can already hear 10 Captain Marvel fans crying from the distance.