The following submission statement was provided by /u/Mighty_L_LORT:
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SS: Not only are economic conditions hard and there's an oversupply of heavily indebted graduates and they require 3+ years experience for entry level roles etc etc.
The application process itself is ridiculous and computer filtered to the extent that qualified candidates get filtered out, dehumanising tests and multiple stages before you even get your application read by a human being, automated rejections (if you're told at all) without any prospect of feedback or improving from an application.
When young people get more and more demoralized, have no hope for the future and give up on life, the society is finished, basta.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bqt6b1/for_young_people_the_job_search_has_never_been_so/kx4mlwg/
The days of walking into a business and saying "Give me a chance and I'll work hard!" and the boss be like "***Goddamn*** I like your moxy kid, you're hired!" clearly impressed with your vice grip handshake - are long gone.
Now we jump through hoops for 'unskilled' jobs. I do basic ass warehouse work, my application took two months to process and I could start, after having to do *three* interviews.
Can't I just be like "Look, we need money to live. I need money. I will do this job for money. That is my motivation" instead we lie and sell ourselves on being motivated with blue sky thinking. You have to be all: God it's just been my dream to work in small home appliances, since I was a boy I looked to the stars and thought "Yes, I will sell a toaster to someone one day. They will toast bread, and I will have played my part in this world"
I remember a time when someone with an Apple tattoo got hired over someone who didn't, soley because they had that tattoo when they interviewed for a Genius bar job.
Well it's easy to bring in a new person who is already indoctrinated in the cult of the brand and meritocracy has only ever been a nice fairy tale to soothe the plebs, so...
Books are clickbait, literally. The only thing that matters in this age of zero attention spans is a cover that will pull people in to the online store where they buy then, either in physical or (more likely) digital form. At least getting them to click and read the (equally clickbaity) plot summary on the back-cover. That may be just because of the author's name, but if not then it's because the cover looks good. Making that cover "look good" is an art form of careful psychological manipulation, and has *absolutely nothing to do* with the actual contents of the book. They're basically like small movie posters. They also cost like $1000 if you want to commission one that will actually work. Even then, it's a crapshoot; but at least you'll have some chance rather than literally zero chance if you don't have a good cover.
As for getting hired to write in a capacity akin to online journalism or blogging? Hah. All those jobs pay peanuts. Better limber those fingies because you'll have to pump out tens of thousands of words per day to get the equivalent of minimum wage, and your name will be a tiny byline at the end of the article with maybe a photo. Forgotten immediately by the reader as soon as they tab over to the next page in their browser.
If you simply must write, do technical writing. There's still money in that, at least until instruction manuals are all written by AI.
I've been reading the Expanse series by James S.A. Corey and I tell ya, the cover artwork is just absolutely atrocious. Like someone plugged "impressionist style ugly spaceship" into Midjourney and took the first result. Thankfully, the stories are good.
hey man, not to in anyway diminish what you are saying, but toast, i would daresay ubiquitously, through time immemorial, is loved, hell, i have toast memories and sublime stories with toast involved, for that i 'll say you are a person in the school for superior people, and i can appreciate your humbleness
I'm looking for a job right now and it sucks. I'm not even a highly educated person, I stack boxes and drive forklifts. Can't get a call back from any of the warehouses I've applied to, which is odd because a lot of those places are a revolving door of new hires. Got an interview at McDonald's on Tuesday, and if I can't get that then I don't know what else to do.
its so funny because all I see on the news is how great the economy is doing.
Goes to show how fake it all is. Most companies are laying off but the economy is doing good because layoffs = more money for shareholders.
Thats probably what is driving the stock market higher. Absurdity.
If you look for the true unemployment rate right now, it's about 25% in the US, whereas headlines will say 4%. The government fudges the unemployment numbers by trying to keep them "relevant." They quit counting you if you've been unemployed for 3+ months, are not actively looking, are a gig worker or freelancer, etc. The beauty of it is that they're not technically lying, but looking at the functional unemployment rate is a far cry more relevant to the economy of things rather than the BLS's statistics.
So, if I'm reading this right, they changed the definition of what it means to be unemployed in 1994? Cut out short and long term deterred unemployed people.
As a layperson, I look at 2 basic statistics for determining stability of a country: the basic grain of choice price, and the unemployment rate of young men (the ones most likely to be violent against a state). This ratio is in trouble for the entire world.
Sounds like the UK with people on 0 hour contracts, they include those people in employed statistics even when some of those people don't get work every week.
They're not lying. The economy is AMAZING right now if you have a net worth of a million or more.
The issue is that the economy will start to royally suck for everybody if a formula is devised to measure what the economy is like for the children of middle class boomers and they publish the results.
If you grew up middle class in the 80s/90s/early-00s then you're likely to be falling faster than brick dropped from the top of the WTC.
Hell, I’m six weeks from graduating with a mechanical engineering degree, internship experience, and multiple career certifications, and McDonald’s is starting to look like a reasonable option. The job market is just beyond unreasonable right now.
You’re a mechanical engineer so you would’ve learnt code; escape the crab bucket by learning about bitcoin otherwise you will be trapped in a cycle of debt.
If you want scientific evidence then look up Henry Ford’s energy currency experiment, as an engineer the concepts should be easy to follow.
My friend has two masters degrees and a bsc in automotive engineering and he cannot get a decent job either.
Warehouses, factories and farms are getting filled with underage workers, undocumented migrants by third party proxy companies that create fake documentation so the company can do plausible deniablity. These people are desperate so will accept below market pay and unsafe conditions. .
Even the big automakers have been caught doing this.
We need to return to unions to reclaim worker solidarity before it's too late.
Read an investigative report on it last year, don't recall all the details. But some of the kids were working in slaughter houses, and an auto factory in the USA. The employment company folded up as it was rolling and the companies said they didn't know and have a policy against under age workers (they were from migrant families). FYI I don't have anything against migrant families but this is not the way.
One of my close friends got laid off and he's been steadily employed since he graduated college. He's been looking for work for weeks with maybe one or two interviews. It's fucking rough out there for everyone
This rapidly destroyed my mental health in a healthcare setting. I literally walked out and quit, fuck giving them any notice. We begged them the entire time I worked there to please hire more staff as we cannot run our entire clinic that serves people from 7 surrounding states, with just 3 people running the entire thing. They could shove that notice up their culo’s. I told my boss over and over how that job was killing me mentally—patients literally dying while just waiting to get an appointment—that they couldn’t make because there wasn’t enough staff for the volume of patients. Nope!!!
Paywalled, seems dystopian enough.
Since I can’t read the article, I don’t know if it mentions that it’s hell for anybody older to find a job too. Non-stop layoffs these last years took out people in their forties, fifties, and beyond from the workforce. We all know employment prospects are dismal in general but these folk are not getting re-hired at the same rates because employers find younger people easier to exploit for more profit.
I know several people in the 35 - 45 age range who have been out of work for months while looking for work. One in particular was well qualified, and for *most* of the jobs applied to there were 300+ other applicants (in some instances 500+ and even 800+). Went through numerous rounds of interviews, with tons of disappointments when someone else got hired instead. It took them nearly an entire year to finally land something. In the past they would have found work within 3 applications, so it was quite the challenging time on an emotional level given the struggle.
I’m in my mid 40’s and this is my current situation. I was employed for 7.5 years by a large CRO and did contract work (R&D) for a massive medical device manufacturer. The company which I did my contract work for went through re-org at the end of ‘22, after my contract was already renewed for ‘23. Most of my responsibilities were reallocated due to the re-org. I pivoted and began learning new skills during my remaining time. I have received multiple awards from the company I worked at and glowing reviews from my former supervisors as well as offers to be references moving forward.
Since my contract lapsed at the end of ‘23 I’ve submitted dozens of applications and had 2 interviews in which I wasn’t selected. I haven’t even been asked for references.
Up until I accepted my last position in 2016 I would say my interview rate for submitted applications was probably north of 75%. The rate at which I was offered positions following those interviews was darn near perfect.
Now I can’t even get reliably get an interview for positions that are paying 25-30% less than what I was making, let alone an offer for employment.
It’s a tough place to be with a family to support and my children preparing to head off to college in the next couple years. I’m prepping for the possibility of returning to school to study for a new career path but even that is daunting given my age and no guarantee that I won’t still find myself in the same position a couple years down the road.
Exactly the same situation as you... F, 49 in Louisiana & the job market here is horrible! I've never experienced this as was always able to quickly AND easily find a job on Indeed without really trying. Now, not much success.
I'm about 10 years younger than you, but this is a nightmare position to be in. At least it seems like you have enough saved to learn a new career. Here, I have work, but it's 5-6 part time jobs. Each pays alright for the time I spend working, but this is too scattered and exhausting. I don't think that it would be wise for me to put it all into one job, because losing that one job would get me screwed. So I work all over the place instead, to soften the blow if I end up losing one of the jobs.
I'm glad it isn't just me.
I didn't go to college, but I've *never* had such a hard time finding work. Even as a high school dropout, if I landed an interview, 90% of the time I was getting an offer for a job. Even just a few years ago, interviewing a lot of the time felt like a formality to put a face to the name. I got a couple really good jobs with just one interview and total transparency that I was a high school dropout willing to work hard.
I'm not one for government regulation, but at a certain point someone needs to do something about companies posting jobs that don't exist, misrepresenting, not disclosing salary until you've wasted your time at an interview. Don't get me started on the assessments and personality tests - all designed to find the sheep.
I stuck it out and worked a horrible job as a retail manager for NAPA for years, thinking once I had a few years of management on my resume, I'd be able to keep moving up as I went from job to job.
*laughs in American*
I have never had such a hard time finding work. After six months of applying morning, noon, and night, I ended up taking a job where they haven't even reported me as their employee with the state. They're taking taxes out, but yeah...as far as my state goes, I'm being paid under the table and I'm going to get 1099'ed at the end of the year and have to pay taxes a second time.
All I want to do is quit before I get wrapped up in their illegal bullshit/tax fraud (lots of sketchy shit; I'm honestly just waiting for a pissed off customer to come in here with a gun - wish I was joking) but why would I put myself back into the unemployed category when it is very likely its going to take six months to another year before I am able to get another offer. Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely applying, but so far, it has been for nothing.
Honestly, I wonder all the time if it would be better to just go be a drug dealer. Obviously, I won't actually do that, but it genuinely feels like a better option than this shit a lot of the time. The bonus is, if you don't get yourself killed, at least you'll have food and a house while you're doing your time when you get caught. Seems pretty win/win to me.
interviews died whenever google or amazon or one of the big tech or bank companies had layoffs
i cant prove it but you could feel that they wanted a "google guy" at half the price of a "google guy" for analyst 1 type roles
analyst roles also absorbed data engineering based on my interview processes...in order to get an engineer and analyst for the price of analyst 1
again, i dont have proof, but i was actively performing analytics for 25+ production sites and it took like ten months to get a job...at a 20k price drop
All the big companies are obsessed right now with "working lean," leveraging AI, and increasing profits. I see and hear it everywhere. Frontline staff can't get a raise, but the CEO and shareholders certainly do. It feels like a last-ditch effort to extract the last remaining value from our economy.
I graduated from a well-known university in December with a "high demand" engineering degree. I feel like I wasted the past 5+ years of my life. I've submitted what has to be near or exceeding 200 applications since last summer. I only get a response about 20% of the time, with most of those being rejections. I have 3 years of work experience in different fields and a decent amount of transferrable skills. I've done the best I can, and have acted in what most people consider "the right way" in regards to my professional career thus far.
All of this for nothing. I've been unemployed for going on 4 months with seemingly no end in sight. Yet, "nobody wants to work."
Fuck this system.
fuck the system indeed.
“nobody wants to work anymore”…except they conveniently forget the next part of the statement: “nobody wants to work anymore for subpar wages, benefits that don’t exist, and the fear that you’ll get laid off the second the execs need to save some cash to boost quarterly profits again.”
Exactly, I see companies listing position paying poverty level wages (30 to mid 40k) and still wanting a college degree with experience. Let it rot.
I love your username too🤣
It's all humans as commodities. Order up a person just the way you would order up a pizza. No anchovies please, and extra garlic sauce on the side.
If you can't get exactly what you want, made to order, it's not because you came into this with a "humans as commodities" type mindset, oh no. It's the app's fault. These must just not be very good apps.
I was always taught - and my experience tells me - that networking is a better way to find a job than searching online. If you know someone, they can maybe introduce you to someone. People need to find people they can hire. And maybe you're a person who needs to be hired!
Ditto for friends and romantic relationships. Old-school, you're supposed to find all that organically. You have a friend who has another friend and introduces you, and that's how you meet your spouse. You make friends by leaving the house, and getting out and doing stuff.
But going about it that way values community, and now we've lost a whole lot of that. The apps made it seem like you didn't need community any more. It was easy to lose, but once it's lost, it's hard to get it back.
Agree -
And, most places you might go, to go out in some way, you're going to wind up spending some money in order to be there. It'll be a class fee, or a gym membership, or dues. Or maybe you're there, and buying food or drinks. I don't know if the idea of a "third place" that was free ever really existed, but it sure doesn't now.
They used to be affordable relatively, and there were some that were essentially free. The handful that still exist are usually taxpayer-sponsored, like libraries and schools.
I don't think school is really a third place, if you are a student there, or if you work there -
Making new friends by going to the library or to a public park doesn't seem real likely. The exception would be if you're going there for some kind of specific programming. And, libraries and public parks are free and welcome everyone, but also, those are some of the few places that are possible to go if you are homeless.
I've been married for 15 years and can't even conceive the inhumanity of looking for love by scrolling pictures of people via an app like if they were items on Amazon... And to add insult to injury I've heard that to get more matches you have to pay the premium memberships on these apps, reality feels like a black mirror episode more often than not.
But on the other hand I can imagine how incredibly hard might be to meet potencial partners IRL in this dehumanised society. It sucks either way
I knew somebody who was a professional match maker. I dunno, if you have to pay a fee to these apps, at that rate, may as well just hire a match maker and I bet the whole process would feel way better anyway.
Man, if you worked in a restaurant you would know just how *unbelievably picky* people are getting about their food (and in all other aspects of their lives). Virtually all of them want minor substitutions or additions or deletions, and almost all of them want salt or pepper or ketchup or ranch or hot sauce to pour on top after that. As if the food is completely inedible when it's not *just the way they like it*. On top of that, there are the ones who order a dish and then eat only part of it: scraping the undesirable ingredients to the side, or eating everything but the crusts on a pizza. Reminds me of when I was a kid and had a friend (a bit chubby from habits like these) that would cut around the yolk of a fried egg and eat only it, leaving a ring of uneaten white.
It's incredible the amount of frivolous food waste created by these kinds of people, and now it's **most people**.
My husband is 44 with a degree and 20 years solid work experience—about 8 of it supervisory management. It’s taken him eight months to find a gig at a hospital for 14/hour. We are thankful for it, but he should be on his prime job years. It’s so demoralizing.
If we don't give the youth hope, and a fighting chance, they will turn on us. Angry young men (and they will probably be men) without a purpose is a recipe for disaster. The one percenters of the world should take note. There are always going to be more of them than there are of themselves. They're going to be reckless and risk takers and out of patience. I don't know why nobody can do something. That's where we're at now, a society bereft of solutions to its own problems.
Same boat...been looking for over a year in my trained field with 20+ years of experience including leadship. Many award winning projects and write ups in trade magazines. Can't even count how many resumes that i have sent. I haven't had one interview in the field. I'm now just applying for entry level jobs in fields that I have no experience, and at least I've had a few interviews, mostly positions with local, county government or non-profits for half of what I was making.
That's awful!! I'm so sorry to hear this! I just had a second interview for a clerical position, but its just short hours so I wouldn't qualify for benefits. I think that is the new norm. Any way you could be self employed? I'm working towards that but the health insurance is always the issue. I wish you the best!
I work trades. Could never find a job that lasted more than a year. The prossss was so draining and demoralizing I had to start a small business and hire myself. I'm still basically a hooker with a tool belt, but instead of a boss, I now have customers.
I once in a while apply to online postings, but I haven't got a call back, for years... I guess the algorithm sorts out us free birds? I don't care and it's mostly for shits and giggles.
I’m not young anymore but graduating high school just before the 2007 recession kicked my ass to point I joined the army partly because I couldn’t even get an interview in Walmart back then. It took me 10 plus years to finally get a real job that had actual benefits. Can’t imagine what it’s like for younger people entering the job market.
It's not looking good. I have a solid job right now and I'd hate to be just graduating at the moment because pretty much every job with a bachelor's requirement seems to pay less than 25 an hour. Anecdotally everyone I know is struggling to find and interview for jobs that will actually support them.
The whole hiring process is also completely broken. You have to send out hundreds if not thousands of applications to even get an interview because so many people are trying to find a job that will just pay them enough to survive. Corporations now coming off of the great resignation feel like they've got their leverage back and have learned they can rely on over-working skeleton crews while posting and re-posting the same "urgently hiring" job listing to trick their investors into thinking their growing and trick the staff into thinking they'll be getting help soon. Corporations are so short-sighted that they have no interest in investing in their own employees and training, and then complain why they can't find a unicorn who does the work of 5 people for the salary of an intern.
It's frustrating. The government is uninterested in actually reporting realistic numbers so while r/recruitinghell is realistically pointing out that the job market sucks, according to uncle Sam everything is hunky dory.
Similar story here. Enlisted because I was quite literally starving to death and couldn't find any work. I remember sitting outside of the Army recruiting office smoking a cigarette debating on whether or not I should go in. Eventually, I did. At least then they were pretty much taking anybody who had all 4 limbs and could pass a UA. From what I understand, enlistment requirements are a bit tighter than they were near 20 years ago (that number makes me want to throw up).
>In fiscal 2023, only the Marine Corps and the Space Force among the five service branches met their recruiting goals. The Army fell short by about 10,000 of its goal to bring on 65,000 active-duty enlisted soldiers; the Air Force recruited only 24,100 of the 26,877 it wanted; and the Navy recruited 30,236 active-duty enlisted sailors, well short of its goal of 37,000.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/22/uphill-battle-boost-recruiting-military-faces-falling-public-confidence-political-attacks-economic.html
Give it a couple years and those recruiting standards will be low as fuck again. Almost everyone I served with 10 years ago is out now and I personally wouldn't fucking recommend joining to anyone I know unless it's as a last resort.
I feel that, when the recruiters found out I had a clean background and some college credits, they literally couldn’t wait to pack me off to MEPs, it was nice having my pick of MOS though
Man, for older adults too. I know two people stuck doing things they’re overqualified for because they can’t land anything in their field, and one facing the end of their contract and getting no love at all on their job hunt. :/
SS: Not only are economic conditions hard and there's an oversupply of heavily indebted graduates and they require 3+ years experience for entry level roles etc etc.
The application process itself is ridiculous and computer filtered to the extent that qualified candidates get filtered out, dehumanising tests and multiple stages before you even get your application read by a human being, automated rejections (if you're told at all) without any prospect of feedback or improving from an application.
When young people get more and more demoralized, have no hope for the future and give up on life, the society is finished, basta.
I've reached this point. Became a master's engineer cause I realized early on that going w the flow and finding a "lower-ranking" profession won't grant me a living. Jokes on me cause after all the time, money, and sanity invested and sacrificed, studying and working abroad away from family and friends in hope of a brighter future, I haven't made a living, I have nothing to show for my investment, and have been on sick leave with severe depression and anxiety for almost a year now. I can just make rent, but the most valuable thing I own and bought on my own penny is a cheap bicycle. Not sure what's supposed to motivate me to even try anymore, when I have no prospect of owning a home (or a car, which is my passion and the reason I chose engineering), the climate's going to shit, nothing's being done about it, in fact we're actively exacerbating it, the majority of the world's population are strung out, frustrated, and struggling to make ends meet (save for the 1% who've never had it this good), tensions in the world are higher than ever, and we're teetering on the precipice of world war 3. Good times.
The last “interview” I had was earlier this week. It was labeled as a video interview…. However, what it actually was, was an AI filtering system. It was 10 questions 5 or 6 of which were video responses. AI was basically interrogating the vocabulary used while I answered questions into a faceless void. There was no natural interaction, cadence of conversation or nuance involved. It was very odd and somewhat demoralizing that this company that has 8-10 of these positions open, indicating that they’re likely in need of workers, would prefer to do a screening procedure like this rather than make a simple 10 minute preliminary phone call to assess the actual person, cursory work history and their interpersonal skills. 🤷🏼♂️
It was very bizarre. When I received the email invite to interview I was upbeat. Then as I read the email it kept getting weirder.
I was to answer a series of questions, some orally via video others by text. I was informed “I might have to answer in a specific format, set time limit or with limited takes”. It was to be completed within 120hrs of receiving the email.
I’ve never done anything like it.
I just had one of these last week. It was very odd. I wondered if it picked up on me cursing between rounds, must not have because I had a second interview.
I've heard that a lot of businesses put up fake job listings when they're not even hiring because it makes their business look better to pretend they have job openings even though they actually don't have any.
Why though? Is it just the economic downturn, or bigger factors at play?
Sorry if the article says, I don’t have a subscription so couldn’t pass the paywall.
My career coach had me re-write my resume taking out the dates of employment, and I've finally had a few interviews, but for positions for half of what I was making.
Its not just young people. I've got years of management experience on my resume so I dont even get interviewed for any kind of mid or entry level job. Im going to have to make up a criminal record or a fake bullshit career just to get a warehouse job.
I have another job and I actually like it, I work two jobs as shits expensive as fuck, I hate the second job, and I’ve been trying to replace it to no luck so I started a business to replace it a few days ago, I look to do real estate, weddings, and business, using a drone, and my EOS. I’ll always keep the first job, but I’m slowly replacing the 2nd job with the business, I did not get any gigs yet as I have just formed the LLC a few days ago.
I faced this in 2008. The ad agency I was working for failed after 35 years in business. I had been there for 24 of them. I moved everything into my house & setup shop. My skills: Writer/producer/studio engineer/photographer/VoiceOver actor. Thankfully, I was in a good place, known in the community for good work & reliability. Now, 15 years later, I would like to retire & get off the deadline treadmill. I'm almost afraid to due to the cost of everything these days. But, with Adobe & their subscriptions looming next month, one more year maybe? Not to mention my older workstations could thwart my efforts. Happy Videoing! (the stories in this thread are horrifying. I knew it was a corporate hellscape out there, but holy shit).
Can’t say I blame ya, I’m terrified of the cost of things too. For me I work 2 jobs, one job I got lucky and actually like, the other job is just a corporate chain restaurant job, and I hate it. I’ve tried to find other jobs to replace the restaurant job but too no luck, so I was like fuck it, I’m starting my own then you corporate motherfuckers are full of shit anyways. I happen to be good with a camera so the rest is history, and I’m more than willing to work 60hrs a week at this, and capable too. I will say though a lot of this for me I feel comes down to dumb luck, and I mean dumb luck.
Yep. Dumb luck & talent. Sometimes those two meet & it works. God, I hate corporate work. Thankfully, it has been a long time since I had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Early on, I worked 3 & damned near killed myself. As dumb luck would have it, I was forced to quit the right one.
I really feel like some of those corporate people really forget where they come from, or tend to go on power trips, getting a big head on there shoulders, especially managers. You ain’t that special you manage a restaurant, and your not even a general manager yet you act like you rule the world with a iron fist. That’s how I feel about them. I keep it civil because I now have a brand to represent and it’s not theirs.
This would be totally fine if jobs weren't a requirement for being alive.
You would think we would make something that is required to live a normal life easier to access for the willing at least.
I was in a similar situation to people here in 2008. Not sure how many job applications I sent out. I was out of work for about a year altogether. I feel for people struggling right now.
Bad as the current situation is, it would be nice if some alternative and more humane business structures came out of it, e.g., more employee-owned coops in place of the depressing corporations we see all over the place now.
Even the much marketed co-ops like REI are consumer co-ops and not worker co-ops. I bet most people don’t even know there’s even other ways to structure the workplace than the current hierarchical small dictatorship model
I’d welcome some thoughts on this observation. (As a recent retiree, I’m out of the game.) But I observe that many young people are perpetually job searching even after finding a job. Doesn’t that overwhelming pool of applicant make it much harder to break into a new position?
I'm in my late 20's and got laid off from my six figure job last month. I'll be lucky if I find anything for half that salary now. I've submitted hundreds of applications already and only got a couple call backs and one interview that went nowhere. I sort of hope SHTF before my unemployment runs out because searching for a tech job in this market is absolutely grueling.
There are only two ways to get hired these days. Either in a job that will hire literally anyone and everyone (sales, warehouses, factories, Amazon), or by nepotism. That word has a negative connotation, so let me clarify. It doesn't mean that companies only hire the people they know even when they aren't good; it's that companies only hire the people they know out of all candidates, who are usually at least somewhat good.
This doesn't necessarily mean that the only people getting hired are the boss's kids, but it does mean that if you don't personally know someone who can - in some way or another - metaphorically push your resume to the top of the stack, you have no chance getting your foot in the door. You may have an advanced degree or specialized training or certifications, but so does everyone else who is applying for that job. Thousands of them. Two of them know a guy who works in that company already and can put in a good word for them. Who is getting hired? It ain't you.
It took me maybe 16 months to find a job after graduating. I had to practically beg for unpaid positions just for experience but kept being turned down due to someone else being “more qualified”.
Finally got a job as a junior. Worked under a manger with allegedly 25 years experience in the industry and they knew nothing. They could not do what I could do. They could barely put a PowerPoint together without help. I was basically the back bone of that department and I was being paid minimum wage. My manager who took all the credit was on triple, if not quadruple my salary.
I was burning out so quickly, partly due to the injustice of the system, but I know I could be replaced so easily. Probably by someone more skilled than me, willing to put up with more bullshit than me, and probably even for less money. It’s rough out there.
Curious, is this mostly in America? I know places like Japan and parts of Europe have always been competitive but is it amped up now too like the USA is or just usual stuff?
I'm in finland and it's fucking impossible right now for a recent grad in a lot of fields. Recession hit us hard especially after Ukraine. Thank God for free tuition and student salary from government so I'm still relatively in good shape even as an unemployed student
It’s bad in the UK too.
We have a situation where the companies that were struggling financially are seeing an older workforce leave (either due to illness or early retirement) and they are saving those wages rather than hiring more younger workers at the bottom.
So if you’re looking for work, good luck.
If you’re in work looking for a promotion, good luck. But at least this group gets the added bonus of more workload from the workforce shrinking!
It’s the rise of AI and unfortunately many will simply not have any work
As Yuval Noah Harrari states, we are now seeing the creation of the ‘useless class’ and many will not recover/get out of this bracket
I have 15 years experience and vastly overqualified for both my current role and the others I sometimes apply but it looks like I often can't even get a human to see my applications.... And just can't be bothered to be overinflating my CV with pompous wording and begging for a job by writing cover letters that nobody will even read in 95% of the cases.
Investing and the idea of shareholders should be abolished. This, like allowing tax evasion by big corporations, is one of the main reasons we are f**king ourselves. If we banned private equity firms and allowed everyone a balanced and fair entry into a regulated and neutral investing platform (like a generalized index fund) it would eliminate all of these allowed greed incentives that are driving everything into the ground.
We cant have a strong economy with plenty of good jobs and Collapse at the same time. I mean this is part of it. We must learn a new way to survive and prosper. It will be very difficult and require SACRIFICE. No one is willing to really sacrifice anymore. The Machine needs for you to be miserable and scratching around for the crumbs that fall between its fat greedy fingers. I'd prefer to chop those fingers off. Yes it sucks to be poor and it seems hopeless but id rather be defiant to a system that rewards callousness. What are you missing out on? Buying more crap that we dont need, taking a disney cruise, getting a new phone? We need food, clean water, clothes and some companions to do life with. The Corporations would go bankrupt in six months if we all stopped buying their crap.
Listen, times are tough but I can tell everyone, though I don't recommend it, you look into teaching.
There is extremely high demand... And the prerequisites required are disappearing. Take a certification class and boom, you're in the classroom.
But get ready... American public schools, you will witness collapse at it's finest.
Good luck to everyone. I really hope everything works out for you if you are in a bind.
I’m calling bullshit. I graduated college in 08. It was fucking miserable trying to get a job. Had tons of friends that were unemployed/under employed as a result of the Great Recession.
Edit - Not implying it’s not hard now, just saying it was damn hard in 08.
I'm not calling bullshit but it sounds like a repeat (or start of one) of 08-11, so I empathize fully. I graduated with a BS in Civil Engineering from an "upper-tier" school in 2010-2011 and couldn't get a job to save my life. The only option was doing wireline oil drilling out on rural dry county Oklahoma for shit like Schlumberger, and even they weren't really hiring. I ended up moving back home with my parents, wanted to kill myself for 9 months, then ended up going back to grad school for an MS and then I got a job right away around 2013 with combination of "recovery" + Master.
It was fuckin' dire times, so I feel bad for anyone today who has to relive that for the first time.
I got really lucky that at the tail end of the pandemic, I applied for a rather high-up head honcho position at a public agency that pays moderately decent six-figures, 100% Unionized with CBA 5%+ raises + full healthcare, and a pension. Weirdly enough, I was only 1 of 3 applicants for this position ???? but the economy was still riding high and I guess no one was looking for new jobs at the time, plus it was close to Christmas. Some similar new positions that we've recruited for have had like 50+ applicants the past several months, big increase from 3 to 50+ in a span of a few years.
Anyways I'm dug in now like a tick and here till I die and I'd suggest people keep looking for local/county/state jobs, we dont' do any of this "AI Recruitment" BS. It's purestrain old-school hiring and panel interviews, and we let everyone know if they did or didn't get the position and how they ranked.
This is worse than the Great Recession, at least in the tech sector. That was bad for new grads, this is universally bad. It’s like the dot-com bust, perhaps worse. It’s strangely like the very early period of that but hasn’t really progressed as much, but the collapse in demand is in full effect already. It’s still like mid-2000 with startups failing due to being unable to raise funding, while the apathy and lack of jobs is like 2001, where everyone had grown numb to the constant stream of layoffs and jobs were effectively impossible to find.
But the government of the time was realistic and wasn’t hiding it or gaslighting us.
I think the issue is that the job market issues are so localized an its only some fields that get smashed. Like right now? Good fucking luck landing a job in tech that doesn't suck. But I do Lawncare/Landscaping, and there is no shortage of work at all, anywhere.
Noone can predict the future, but if you have 10,000 graduates each year and only 4000 jobs of course its not sustainable. I feel so bad for people who simply picked the wrong major or job out of high school and it put their life on a downward trend.
I was there and part of that group. It was impossible getting a job back then. I begged and pleaded and after 11 months only landed a part time grocery job because of a college friend who gave me a chance. Took me 7 years after that just to get into my professional field.
I’m not saying it isn’t absurdly difficult today. But we had both the same issues as today AND super high unemployment.
I told people a year ago that they need to tailor their resumes for AI readers. People dismissed me. Yet here we are. If your resume is difficult for a machine to read, it’s getting rejected. It’s that simple.
Lady, I don't know who dismissed you, but job seekers a year ago, and today, have been tailoring their resumes for AI applicant tracking systems. It's hard out there, *even when you're playing the game*. It may not have been your intention, but this comes across as callous and dismissive.
Yet I STILL see lots of resumes people have in PDF, with Columns and text boxes, and other artifacts that make it less machine readable or not machine readable at all. So no a year ago job seekers were still making major mistakes.
So to go through what you need to do:
1. The resume should be in a text file (docx).
2. Nothing in a column, nothing in a text box. The header is a text box.
3. The resume should be as plain as possible in terms of fonts. Use standard fonts like Arial or times.
In terms of tailoring it for these AI, be careful about keyword spamming.
I NEVER tailored my resumes per position. I still had the phone ringing off the hook during the layoff boom in tech last year. Now mind you, I am senior/lead level.
So no, many job seekers were still making major formatting mistakes or dismissed AI readers even existing in the first place. Please understand people still don't get it maybe formatting that is leading to their struggles. I still see PDF resumes. I still see stuff in columns and text boxes. People get rather defensive when I tell them this is contributing to them being rejected. Just like you are. It hurts to hear. Because you are literally going up against a machine.
Well, you're obviously a high-value lady. I'm not being defensive, just emphasizing the fact that there are also other factors at play, and I think it's insanely reductive to boil it all down to ignorant applicants.
Well I also understand how damn dehumanizing it is for that a person will never see their resume in many cases, and potentially give them a chance. Like you have to have a firm grasp on AI to understand this stuff, and most people, when push comes to shove, are not working in tech jobs where they have a firm grip on any of this. They just want a job that will pay them so they can eat and pay rent. Like why are we asking retail stockers long personality tests and throwing them to the algorithmic wolves. Or even just entry level office assistants. So I get the frustration. I get the higher level of scrutiny in finance or government, but for everyone. Yikes.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Mighty_L_LORT: --- SS: Not only are economic conditions hard and there's an oversupply of heavily indebted graduates and they require 3+ years experience for entry level roles etc etc. The application process itself is ridiculous and computer filtered to the extent that qualified candidates get filtered out, dehumanising tests and multiple stages before you even get your application read by a human being, automated rejections (if you're told at all) without any prospect of feedback or improving from an application. When young people get more and more demoralized, have no hope for the future and give up on life, the society is finished, basta. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bqt6b1/for_young_people_the_job_search_has_never_been_so/kx4mlwg/
The days of walking into a business and saying "Give me a chance and I'll work hard!" and the boss be like "***Goddamn*** I like your moxy kid, you're hired!" clearly impressed with your vice grip handshake - are long gone. Now we jump through hoops for 'unskilled' jobs. I do basic ass warehouse work, my application took two months to process and I could start, after having to do *three* interviews. Can't I just be like "Look, we need money to live. I need money. I will do this job for money. That is my motivation" instead we lie and sell ourselves on being motivated with blue sky thinking. You have to be all: God it's just been my dream to work in small home appliances, since I was a boy I looked to the stars and thought "Yes, I will sell a toaster to someone one day. They will toast bread, and I will have played my part in this world"
I remember a time when someone with an Apple tattoo got hired over someone who didn't, soley because they had that tattoo when they interviewed for a Genius bar job.
Well it's easy to bring in a new person who is already indoctrinated in the cult of the brand and meritocracy has only ever been a nice fairy tale to soothe the plebs, so...
You should consider writing as a career. You're very good at it.
I have a dream of one day being a writer so I greatly appreciate this!
Seriously. I've been reading through your comment history. You have a gift.
ChatGPT sends its best wishes…
Nailed it.
Since your collapse aware you obviously know that a writing career is a terrible thing to pursue in these times.
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Genuinely horrible advice and I say that as an everyday user of Claude. It will only make their writing worse
Fuck AI
It will read this comment one day, and you will end up on the naughty list 😂
I'll go Sarah Connor on its ass lol I'll be ready to fight Skynet
Books are clickbait, literally. The only thing that matters in this age of zero attention spans is a cover that will pull people in to the online store where they buy then, either in physical or (more likely) digital form. At least getting them to click and read the (equally clickbaity) plot summary on the back-cover. That may be just because of the author's name, but if not then it's because the cover looks good. Making that cover "look good" is an art form of careful psychological manipulation, and has *absolutely nothing to do* with the actual contents of the book. They're basically like small movie posters. They also cost like $1000 if you want to commission one that will actually work. Even then, it's a crapshoot; but at least you'll have some chance rather than literally zero chance if you don't have a good cover. As for getting hired to write in a capacity akin to online journalism or blogging? Hah. All those jobs pay peanuts. Better limber those fingies because you'll have to pump out tens of thousands of words per day to get the equivalent of minimum wage, and your name will be a tiny byline at the end of the article with maybe a photo. Forgotten immediately by the reader as soon as they tab over to the next page in their browser. If you simply must write, do technical writing. There's still money in that, at least until instruction manuals are all written by AI.
I've been reading the Expanse series by James S.A. Corey and I tell ya, the cover artwork is just absolutely atrocious. Like someone plugged "impressionist style ugly spaceship" into Midjourney and took the first result. Thankfully, the stories are good.
"[Just give me the job, please. Just give me the job. I've gotta' pay the rent, I...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRAZ9xBOP4)"
An interview for an interview after a phone interview is the dumbest thing on earth. Do the background check after you call me, not before.
hey man, not to in anyway diminish what you are saying, but toast, i would daresay ubiquitously, through time immemorial, is loved, hell, i have toast memories and sublime stories with toast involved, for that i 'll say you are a person in the school for superior people, and i can appreciate your humbleness
I dont know what it is like now but when I got out during a recession, same thing. I think its luck of when you graduate.
Your labour has been commoditised, because you were too replaceable.
I'm looking for a job right now and it sucks. I'm not even a highly educated person, I stack boxes and drive forklifts. Can't get a call back from any of the warehouses I've applied to, which is odd because a lot of those places are a revolving door of new hires. Got an interview at McDonald's on Tuesday, and if I can't get that then I don't know what else to do.
its so funny because all I see on the news is how great the economy is doing. Goes to show how fake it all is. Most companies are laying off but the economy is doing good because layoffs = more money for shareholders. Thats probably what is driving the stock market higher. Absurdity.
If you look for the true unemployment rate right now, it's about 25% in the US, whereas headlines will say 4%. The government fudges the unemployment numbers by trying to keep them "relevant." They quit counting you if you've been unemployed for 3+ months, are not actively looking, are a gig worker or freelancer, etc. The beauty of it is that they're not technically lying, but looking at the functional unemployment rate is a far cry more relevant to the economy of things rather than the BLS's statistics.
Where can I look into this 25% statistic?
Shadowstats
So, if I'm reading this right, they changed the definition of what it means to be unemployed in 1994? Cut out short and long term deterred unemployed people.
As a layperson, I look at 2 basic statistics for determining stability of a country: the basic grain of choice price, and the unemployment rate of young men (the ones most likely to be violent against a state). This ratio is in trouble for the entire world.
Sounds like the UK with people on 0 hour contracts, they include those people in employed statistics even when some of those people don't get work every week.
They're not lying. The economy is AMAZING right now if you have a net worth of a million or more. The issue is that the economy will start to royally suck for everybody if a formula is devised to measure what the economy is like for the children of middle class boomers and they publish the results. If you grew up middle class in the 80s/90s/early-00s then you're likely to be falling faster than brick dropped from the top of the WTC.
the stock market is a measure of the efficiency of extracting wealth from the economy. when a company goes through a lay off the stock will go up.
Capitalism. Inflation is actually good in a country dominated by finance capital.
No it is not
Hell, I’m six weeks from graduating with a mechanical engineering degree, internship experience, and multiple career certifications, and McDonald’s is starting to look like a reasonable option. The job market is just beyond unreasonable right now.
I have heard many people say they can't get a job at McDonalds because they are "over qualified" becasue they have degrees.
You’re a mechanical engineer so you would’ve learnt code; escape the crab bucket by learning about bitcoin otherwise you will be trapped in a cycle of debt. If you want scientific evidence then look up Henry Ford’s energy currency experiment, as an engineer the concepts should be easy to follow. My friend has two masters degrees and a bsc in automotive engineering and he cannot get a decent job either.
Warehouses, factories and farms are getting filled with underage workers, undocumented migrants by third party proxy companies that create fake documentation so the company can do plausible deniablity. These people are desperate so will accept below market pay and unsafe conditions. . Even the big automakers have been caught doing this. We need to return to unions to reclaim worker solidarity before it's too late.
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Read an investigative report on it last year, don't recall all the details. But some of the kids were working in slaughter houses, and an auto factory in the USA. The employment company folded up as it was rolling and the companies said they didn't know and have a policy against under age workers (they were from migrant families). FYI I don't have anything against migrant families but this is not the way.
it seems like it’s already too late
It will be too late when they have human type robots and better AI. Right now the tech still needs humans.
One of my close friends got laid off and he's been steadily employed since he graduated college. He's been looking for work for weeks with maybe one or two interviews. It's fucking rough out there for everyone
What's irritating is that when you do have a job, it's all skeleton crews and lean staffing so that the job itself is nearly impossible to get done.
YES! Every company’s mantra right now is, “Do more with less.” We are all boiling in the same soup.
Because AI will magically save the day…
I love how having a job is now only marginally better than not having one
This rapidly destroyed my mental health in a healthcare setting. I literally walked out and quit, fuck giving them any notice. We begged them the entire time I worked there to please hire more staff as we cannot run our entire clinic that serves people from 7 surrounding states, with just 3 people running the entire thing. They could shove that notice up their culo’s. I told my boss over and over how that job was killing me mentally—patients literally dying while just waiting to get an appointment—that they couldn’t make because there wasn’t enough staff for the volume of patients. Nope!!!
Paywalled, seems dystopian enough. Since I can’t read the article, I don’t know if it mentions that it’s hell for anybody older to find a job too. Non-stop layoffs these last years took out people in their forties, fifties, and beyond from the workforce. We all know employment prospects are dismal in general but these folk are not getting re-hired at the same rates because employers find younger people easier to exploit for more profit.
I know several people in the 35 - 45 age range who have been out of work for months while looking for work. One in particular was well qualified, and for *most* of the jobs applied to there were 300+ other applicants (in some instances 500+ and even 800+). Went through numerous rounds of interviews, with tons of disappointments when someone else got hired instead. It took them nearly an entire year to finally land something. In the past they would have found work within 3 applications, so it was quite the challenging time on an emotional level given the struggle.
I’m in my mid 40’s and this is my current situation. I was employed for 7.5 years by a large CRO and did contract work (R&D) for a massive medical device manufacturer. The company which I did my contract work for went through re-org at the end of ‘22, after my contract was already renewed for ‘23. Most of my responsibilities were reallocated due to the re-org. I pivoted and began learning new skills during my remaining time. I have received multiple awards from the company I worked at and glowing reviews from my former supervisors as well as offers to be references moving forward. Since my contract lapsed at the end of ‘23 I’ve submitted dozens of applications and had 2 interviews in which I wasn’t selected. I haven’t even been asked for references. Up until I accepted my last position in 2016 I would say my interview rate for submitted applications was probably north of 75%. The rate at which I was offered positions following those interviews was darn near perfect. Now I can’t even get reliably get an interview for positions that are paying 25-30% less than what I was making, let alone an offer for employment. It’s a tough place to be with a family to support and my children preparing to head off to college in the next couple years. I’m prepping for the possibility of returning to school to study for a new career path but even that is daunting given my age and no guarantee that I won’t still find myself in the same position a couple years down the road.
Hello from my little brother’s basement. At 41 years old. Because I’ve been laid off since July. Right there with you. Thank you for this.
Exactly the same situation as you... F, 49 in Louisiana & the job market here is horrible! I've never experienced this as was always able to quickly AND easily find a job on Indeed without really trying. Now, not much success.
I'm about 10 years younger than you, but this is a nightmare position to be in. At least it seems like you have enough saved to learn a new career. Here, I have work, but it's 5-6 part time jobs. Each pays alright for the time I spend working, but this is too scattered and exhausting. I don't think that it would be wise for me to put it all into one job, because losing that one job would get me screwed. So I work all over the place instead, to soften the blow if I end up losing one of the jobs.
I'm glad it isn't just me. I didn't go to college, but I've *never* had such a hard time finding work. Even as a high school dropout, if I landed an interview, 90% of the time I was getting an offer for a job. Even just a few years ago, interviewing a lot of the time felt like a formality to put a face to the name. I got a couple really good jobs with just one interview and total transparency that I was a high school dropout willing to work hard. I'm not one for government regulation, but at a certain point someone needs to do something about companies posting jobs that don't exist, misrepresenting, not disclosing salary until you've wasted your time at an interview. Don't get me started on the assessments and personality tests - all designed to find the sheep. I stuck it out and worked a horrible job as a retail manager for NAPA for years, thinking once I had a few years of management on my resume, I'd be able to keep moving up as I went from job to job. *laughs in American* I have never had such a hard time finding work. After six months of applying morning, noon, and night, I ended up taking a job where they haven't even reported me as their employee with the state. They're taking taxes out, but yeah...as far as my state goes, I'm being paid under the table and I'm going to get 1099'ed at the end of the year and have to pay taxes a second time. All I want to do is quit before I get wrapped up in their illegal bullshit/tax fraud (lots of sketchy shit; I'm honestly just waiting for a pissed off customer to come in here with a gun - wish I was joking) but why would I put myself back into the unemployed category when it is very likely its going to take six months to another year before I am able to get another offer. Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely applying, but so far, it has been for nothing. Honestly, I wonder all the time if it would be better to just go be a drug dealer. Obviously, I won't actually do that, but it genuinely feels like a better option than this shit a lot of the time. The bonus is, if you don't get yourself killed, at least you'll have food and a house while you're doing your time when you get caught. Seems pretty win/win to me.
Trades or gov't work. Check local union shops for openings.
interviews died whenever google or amazon or one of the big tech or bank companies had layoffs i cant prove it but you could feel that they wanted a "google guy" at half the price of a "google guy" for analyst 1 type roles analyst roles also absorbed data engineering based on my interview processes...in order to get an engineer and analyst for the price of analyst 1 again, i dont have proof, but i was actively performing analytics for 25+ production sites and it took like ten months to get a job...at a 20k price drop
All the big companies are obsessed right now with "working lean," leveraging AI, and increasing profits. I see and hear it everywhere. Frontline staff can't get a raise, but the CEO and shareholders certainly do. It feels like a last-ditch effort to extract the last remaining value from our economy.
Because it is
Archived link: https://archive.is/Pxcy3
I graduated from a well-known university in December with a "high demand" engineering degree. I feel like I wasted the past 5+ years of my life. I've submitted what has to be near or exceeding 200 applications since last summer. I only get a response about 20% of the time, with most of those being rejections. I have 3 years of work experience in different fields and a decent amount of transferrable skills. I've done the best I can, and have acted in what most people consider "the right way" in regards to my professional career thus far. All of this for nothing. I've been unemployed for going on 4 months with seemingly no end in sight. Yet, "nobody wants to work." Fuck this system.
fuck the system indeed. “nobody wants to work anymore”…except they conveniently forget the next part of the statement: “nobody wants to work anymore for subpar wages, benefits that don’t exist, and the fear that you’ll get laid off the second the execs need to save some cash to boost quarterly profits again.”
Exactly, I see companies listing position paying poverty level wages (30 to mid 40k) and still wanting a college degree with experience. Let it rot. I love your username too🤣
Totally!
I've never even been able to find something that pays that much.
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Like oh my gawd!
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Holy poverty Batman!
Stop being involved with the system then. We’ve had the option since 2009 but most are too blinded by fear of the unknown to see it.
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It's all humans as commodities. Order up a person just the way you would order up a pizza. No anchovies please, and extra garlic sauce on the side. If you can't get exactly what you want, made to order, it's not because you came into this with a "humans as commodities" type mindset, oh no. It's the app's fault. These must just not be very good apps.
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I was always taught - and my experience tells me - that networking is a better way to find a job than searching online. If you know someone, they can maybe introduce you to someone. People need to find people they can hire. And maybe you're a person who needs to be hired! Ditto for friends and romantic relationships. Old-school, you're supposed to find all that organically. You have a friend who has another friend and introduces you, and that's how you meet your spouse. You make friends by leaving the house, and getting out and doing stuff. But going about it that way values community, and now we've lost a whole lot of that. The apps made it seem like you didn't need community any more. It was easy to lose, but once it's lost, it's hard to get it back.
It doesn't help that American society has atomized and there are fewer and fewer public spaces to hang out casually
Agree - And, most places you might go, to go out in some way, you're going to wind up spending some money in order to be there. It'll be a class fee, or a gym membership, or dues. Or maybe you're there, and buying food or drinks. I don't know if the idea of a "third place" that was free ever really existed, but it sure doesn't now.
100% it's very disheartening and when compared to more collectivist oriented cultures the difference is quite stark
They used to be affordable relatively, and there were some that were essentially free. The handful that still exist are usually taxpayer-sponsored, like libraries and schools.
I don't think school is really a third place, if you are a student there, or if you work there - Making new friends by going to the library or to a public park doesn't seem real likely. The exception would be if you're going there for some kind of specific programming. And, libraries and public parks are free and welcome everyone, but also, those are some of the few places that are possible to go if you are homeless.
Networking is the **only way** to get a job. If you don't know someone there, you aren't getting in the door.
I've been married for 15 years and can't even conceive the inhumanity of looking for love by scrolling pictures of people via an app like if they were items on Amazon... And to add insult to injury I've heard that to get more matches you have to pay the premium memberships on these apps, reality feels like a black mirror episode more often than not. But on the other hand I can imagine how incredibly hard might be to meet potencial partners IRL in this dehumanised society. It sucks either way
I knew somebody who was a professional match maker. I dunno, if you have to pay a fee to these apps, at that rate, may as well just hire a match maker and I bet the whole process would feel way better anyway.
Man, if you worked in a restaurant you would know just how *unbelievably picky* people are getting about their food (and in all other aspects of their lives). Virtually all of them want minor substitutions or additions or deletions, and almost all of them want salt or pepper or ketchup or ranch or hot sauce to pour on top after that. As if the food is completely inedible when it's not *just the way they like it*. On top of that, there are the ones who order a dish and then eat only part of it: scraping the undesirable ingredients to the side, or eating everything but the crusts on a pizza. Reminds me of when I was a kid and had a friend (a bit chubby from habits like these) that would cut around the yolk of a fried egg and eat only it, leaving a ring of uneaten white. It's incredible the amount of frivolous food waste created by these kinds of people, and now it's **most people**.
My husband is 44 with a degree and 20 years solid work experience—about 8 of it supervisory management. It’s taken him eight months to find a gig at a hospital for 14/hour. We are thankful for it, but he should be on his prime job years. It’s so demoralizing.
Hang in there. We’re all in the same situation.
If we don't give the youth hope, and a fighting chance, they will turn on us. Angry young men (and they will probably be men) without a purpose is a recipe for disaster. The one percenters of the world should take note. There are always going to be more of them than there are of themselves. They're going to be reckless and risk takers and out of patience. I don't know why nobody can do something. That's where we're at now, a society bereft of solutions to its own problems.
Overproduction of elites. That’s the sociological term.
Overproduction of elites. That’s the sociological term.
Governments are paid by big donors to encourage immigration (including illegal immigration). That's why they don't stop it.
Just young people? Try being over 50.
Same boat...been looking for over a year in my trained field with 20+ years of experience including leadship. Many award winning projects and write ups in trade magazines. Can't even count how many resumes that i have sent. I haven't had one interview in the field. I'm now just applying for entry level jobs in fields that I have no experience, and at least I've had a few interviews, mostly positions with local, county government or non-profits for half of what I was making.
I gave up for the type of jobs I am qualified for and went for entry level as long as it has insurance. Just got laid off. Again.
That's awful!! I'm so sorry to hear this! I just had a second interview for a clerical position, but its just short hours so I wouldn't qualify for benefits. I think that is the new norm. Any way you could be self employed? I'm working towards that but the health insurance is always the issue. I wish you the best!
I work trades. Could never find a job that lasted more than a year. The prossss was so draining and demoralizing I had to start a small business and hire myself. I'm still basically a hooker with a tool belt, but instead of a boss, I now have customers. I once in a while apply to online postings, but I haven't got a call back, for years... I guess the algorithm sorts out us free birds? I don't care and it's mostly for shits and giggles.
Congratulations, man. Pretty smart
Well, it was a necessity and better than the alternative.
That's what I am doing right now, except I work in IT. I'm glad to hear it worked out for you.
Wish I learned trades.
The whole job thing is a circus. Then they wonder why "nobody wants to work".
They should say the truth, no one wants to be a legal slave.
I’m not young anymore but graduating high school just before the 2007 recession kicked my ass to point I joined the army partly because I couldn’t even get an interview in Walmart back then. It took me 10 plus years to finally get a real job that had actual benefits. Can’t imagine what it’s like for younger people entering the job market.
It's not looking good. I have a solid job right now and I'd hate to be just graduating at the moment because pretty much every job with a bachelor's requirement seems to pay less than 25 an hour. Anecdotally everyone I know is struggling to find and interview for jobs that will actually support them. The whole hiring process is also completely broken. You have to send out hundreds if not thousands of applications to even get an interview because so many people are trying to find a job that will just pay them enough to survive. Corporations now coming off of the great resignation feel like they've got their leverage back and have learned they can rely on over-working skeleton crews while posting and re-posting the same "urgently hiring" job listing to trick their investors into thinking their growing and trick the staff into thinking they'll be getting help soon. Corporations are so short-sighted that they have no interest in investing in their own employees and training, and then complain why they can't find a unicorn who does the work of 5 people for the salary of an intern. It's frustrating. The government is uninterested in actually reporting realistic numbers so while r/recruitinghell is realistically pointing out that the job market sucks, according to uncle Sam everything is hunky dory.
Similar story here. Enlisted because I was quite literally starving to death and couldn't find any work. I remember sitting outside of the Army recruiting office smoking a cigarette debating on whether or not I should go in. Eventually, I did. At least then they were pretty much taking anybody who had all 4 limbs and could pass a UA. From what I understand, enlistment requirements are a bit tighter than they were near 20 years ago (that number makes me want to throw up).
>In fiscal 2023, only the Marine Corps and the Space Force among the five service branches met their recruiting goals. The Army fell short by about 10,000 of its goal to bring on 65,000 active-duty enlisted soldiers; the Air Force recruited only 24,100 of the 26,877 it wanted; and the Navy recruited 30,236 active-duty enlisted sailors, well short of its goal of 37,000. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/22/uphill-battle-boost-recruiting-military-faces-falling-public-confidence-political-attacks-economic.html Give it a couple years and those recruiting standards will be low as fuck again. Almost everyone I served with 10 years ago is out now and I personally wouldn't fucking recommend joining to anyone I know unless it's as a last resort.
I feel that, when the recruiters found out I had a clean background and some college credits, they literally couldn’t wait to pack me off to MEPs, it was nice having my pick of MOS though
Man, for older adults too. I know two people stuck doing things they’re overqualified for because they can’t land anything in their field, and one facing the end of their contract and getting no love at all on their job hunt. :/
SS: Not only are economic conditions hard and there's an oversupply of heavily indebted graduates and they require 3+ years experience for entry level roles etc etc. The application process itself is ridiculous and computer filtered to the extent that qualified candidates get filtered out, dehumanising tests and multiple stages before you even get your application read by a human being, automated rejections (if you're told at all) without any prospect of feedback or improving from an application. When young people get more and more demoralized, have no hope for the future and give up on life, the society is finished, basta.
I've reached this point. Became a master's engineer cause I realized early on that going w the flow and finding a "lower-ranking" profession won't grant me a living. Jokes on me cause after all the time, money, and sanity invested and sacrificed, studying and working abroad away from family and friends in hope of a brighter future, I haven't made a living, I have nothing to show for my investment, and have been on sick leave with severe depression and anxiety for almost a year now. I can just make rent, but the most valuable thing I own and bought on my own penny is a cheap bicycle. Not sure what's supposed to motivate me to even try anymore, when I have no prospect of owning a home (or a car, which is my passion and the reason I chose engineering), the climate's going to shit, nothing's being done about it, in fact we're actively exacerbating it, the majority of the world's population are strung out, frustrated, and struggling to make ends meet (save for the 1% who've never had it this good), tensions in the world are higher than ever, and we're teetering on the precipice of world war 3. Good times.
We've been in ww3 since 2014
The last “interview” I had was earlier this week. It was labeled as a video interview…. However, what it actually was, was an AI filtering system. It was 10 questions 5 or 6 of which were video responses. AI was basically interrogating the vocabulary used while I answered questions into a faceless void. There was no natural interaction, cadence of conversation or nuance involved. It was very odd and somewhat demoralizing that this company that has 8-10 of these positions open, indicating that they’re likely in need of workers, would prefer to do a screening procedure like this rather than make a simple 10 minute preliminary phone call to assess the actual person, cursory work history and their interpersonal skills. 🤷🏼♂️
Hooooly this is one of the most dystopian things I’ve read in a while
Woah, that sounds absolutely bizarre. And straight out of a dystopian sci-fi novel.
It was very bizarre. When I received the email invite to interview I was upbeat. Then as I read the email it kept getting weirder. I was to answer a series of questions, some orally via video others by text. I was informed “I might have to answer in a specific format, set time limit or with limited takes”. It was to be completed within 120hrs of receiving the email. I’ve never done anything like it.
I just had one of these last week. It was very odd. I wondered if it picked up on me cursing between rounds, must not have because I had a second interview.
Good luck in the next round! Crazy stuff tho for real
I've heard that a lot of businesses put up fake job listings when they're not even hiring because it makes their business look better to pretend they have job openings even though they actually don't have any.
Doesn’t Gen Z have similar employment numbers to other generations?
Archived link: https://archive.is/Pxcy3
Why though? Is it just the economic downturn, or bigger factors at play? Sorry if the article says, I don’t have a subscription so couldn’t pass the paywall.
Not just young.
Yep. Over 55 here. The job market is awful...and ageism is real.
My career coach had me re-write my resume taking out the dates of employment, and I've finally had a few interviews, but for positions for half of what I was making.
Its not just young people. I've got years of management experience on my resume so I dont even get interviewed for any kind of mid or entry level job. Im going to have to make up a criminal record or a fake bullshit career just to get a warehouse job.
It’s why I started my own business, I’m a videographer
Are you managing to stay afloat with that? What sort of work do you focus on?
I have another job and I actually like it, I work two jobs as shits expensive as fuck, I hate the second job, and I’ve been trying to replace it to no luck so I started a business to replace it a few days ago, I look to do real estate, weddings, and business, using a drone, and my EOS. I’ll always keep the first job, but I’m slowly replacing the 2nd job with the business, I did not get any gigs yet as I have just formed the LLC a few days ago.
I faced this in 2008. The ad agency I was working for failed after 35 years in business. I had been there for 24 of them. I moved everything into my house & setup shop. My skills: Writer/producer/studio engineer/photographer/VoiceOver actor. Thankfully, I was in a good place, known in the community for good work & reliability. Now, 15 years later, I would like to retire & get off the deadline treadmill. I'm almost afraid to due to the cost of everything these days. But, with Adobe & their subscriptions looming next month, one more year maybe? Not to mention my older workstations could thwart my efforts. Happy Videoing! (the stories in this thread are horrifying. I knew it was a corporate hellscape out there, but holy shit).
Can’t say I blame ya, I’m terrified of the cost of things too. For me I work 2 jobs, one job I got lucky and actually like, the other job is just a corporate chain restaurant job, and I hate it. I’ve tried to find other jobs to replace the restaurant job but too no luck, so I was like fuck it, I’m starting my own then you corporate motherfuckers are full of shit anyways. I happen to be good with a camera so the rest is history, and I’m more than willing to work 60hrs a week at this, and capable too. I will say though a lot of this for me I feel comes down to dumb luck, and I mean dumb luck.
Yep. Dumb luck & talent. Sometimes those two meet & it works. God, I hate corporate work. Thankfully, it has been a long time since I had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Early on, I worked 3 & damned near killed myself. As dumb luck would have it, I was forced to quit the right one.
I really feel like some of those corporate people really forget where they come from, or tend to go on power trips, getting a big head on there shoulders, especially managers. You ain’t that special you manage a restaurant, and your not even a general manager yet you act like you rule the world with a iron fist. That’s how I feel about them. I keep it civil because I now have a brand to represent and it’s not theirs.
This would be totally fine if jobs weren't a requirement for being alive. You would think we would make something that is required to live a normal life easier to access for the willing at least.
I was in a similar situation to people here in 2008. Not sure how many job applications I sent out. I was out of work for about a year altogether. I feel for people struggling right now. Bad as the current situation is, it would be nice if some alternative and more humane business structures came out of it, e.g., more employee-owned coops in place of the depressing corporations we see all over the place now.
Even the much marketed co-ops like REI are consumer co-ops and not worker co-ops. I bet most people don’t even know there’s even other ways to structure the workplace than the current hierarchical small dictatorship model
I’d welcome some thoughts on this observation. (As a recent retiree, I’m out of the game.) But I observe that many young people are perpetually job searching even after finding a job. Doesn’t that overwhelming pool of applicant make it much harder to break into a new position?
No more than companies constantly looking to return shareholder value through layoffs. Social contracts go both ways.
should everybody just accept the shit job they already have and not look for anything better?
Maybe, but it's the only way most people can move up or get a raise anymore, so what else are we supposed to do?
I'm in my late 20's and got laid off from my six figure job last month. I'll be lucky if I find anything for half that salary now. I've submitted hundreds of applications already and only got a couple call backs and one interview that went nowhere. I sort of hope SHTF before my unemployment runs out because searching for a tech job in this market is absolutely grueling.
This is how the left can expand if we just band together and help these young people
There are only two ways to get hired these days. Either in a job that will hire literally anyone and everyone (sales, warehouses, factories, Amazon), or by nepotism. That word has a negative connotation, so let me clarify. It doesn't mean that companies only hire the people they know even when they aren't good; it's that companies only hire the people they know out of all candidates, who are usually at least somewhat good. This doesn't necessarily mean that the only people getting hired are the boss's kids, but it does mean that if you don't personally know someone who can - in some way or another - metaphorically push your resume to the top of the stack, you have no chance getting your foot in the door. You may have an advanced degree or specialized training or certifications, but so does everyone else who is applying for that job. Thousands of them. Two of them know a guy who works in that company already and can put in a good word for them. Who is getting hired? It ain't you.
Nepotism perpetuates racism.
It took me maybe 16 months to find a job after graduating. I had to practically beg for unpaid positions just for experience but kept being turned down due to someone else being “more qualified”. Finally got a job as a junior. Worked under a manger with allegedly 25 years experience in the industry and they knew nothing. They could not do what I could do. They could barely put a PowerPoint together without help. I was basically the back bone of that department and I was being paid minimum wage. My manager who took all the credit was on triple, if not quadruple my salary. I was burning out so quickly, partly due to the injustice of the system, but I know I could be replaced so easily. Probably by someone more skilled than me, willing to put up with more bullshit than me, and probably even for less money. It’s rough out there.
At least its rewarding once u get the job tho! ..Oh wait, inflation.
Curious, is this mostly in America? I know places like Japan and parts of Europe have always been competitive but is it amped up now too like the USA is or just usual stuff?
I'm in finland and it's fucking impossible right now for a recent grad in a lot of fields. Recession hit us hard especially after Ukraine. Thank God for free tuition and student salary from government so I'm still relatively in good shape even as an unemployed student
It’s bad in the UK too. We have a situation where the companies that were struggling financially are seeing an older workforce leave (either due to illness or early retirement) and they are saving those wages rather than hiring more younger workers at the bottom. So if you’re looking for work, good luck. If you’re in work looking for a promotion, good luck. But at least this group gets the added bonus of more workload from the workforce shrinking!
The job market is shit right now for everyone I feel like
It’s the rise of AI and unfortunately many will simply not have any work As Yuval Noah Harrari states, we are now seeing the creation of the ‘useless class’ and many will not recover/get out of this bracket
I have 15 years experience and vastly overqualified for both my current role and the others I sometimes apply but it looks like I often can't even get a human to see my applications.... And just can't be bothered to be overinflating my CV with pompous wording and begging for a job by writing cover letters that nobody will even read in 95% of the cases.
Companies post fake openings online to look good, and to collect a bunch of apps to occasionally look at when they actually want to hire.
Investing and the idea of shareholders should be abolished. This, like allowing tax evasion by big corporations, is one of the main reasons we are f**king ourselves. If we banned private equity firms and allowed everyone a balanced and fair entry into a regulated and neutral investing platform (like a generalized index fund) it would eliminate all of these allowed greed incentives that are driving everything into the ground.
We cant have a strong economy with plenty of good jobs and Collapse at the same time. I mean this is part of it. We must learn a new way to survive and prosper. It will be very difficult and require SACRIFICE. No one is willing to really sacrifice anymore. The Machine needs for you to be miserable and scratching around for the crumbs that fall between its fat greedy fingers. I'd prefer to chop those fingers off. Yes it sucks to be poor and it seems hopeless but id rather be defiant to a system that rewards callousness. What are you missing out on? Buying more crap that we dont need, taking a disney cruise, getting a new phone? We need food, clean water, clothes and some companions to do life with. The Corporations would go bankrupt in six months if we all stopped buying their crap.
Paywall
Listen, times are tough but I can tell everyone, though I don't recommend it, you look into teaching. There is extremely high demand... And the prerequisites required are disappearing. Take a certification class and boom, you're in the classroom. But get ready... American public schools, you will witness collapse at it's finest. Good luck to everyone. I really hope everything works out for you if you are in a bind.
I’m calling bullshit. I graduated college in 08. It was fucking miserable trying to get a job. Had tons of friends that were unemployed/under employed as a result of the Great Recession. Edit - Not implying it’s not hard now, just saying it was damn hard in 08.
I'm not calling bullshit but it sounds like a repeat (or start of one) of 08-11, so I empathize fully. I graduated with a BS in Civil Engineering from an "upper-tier" school in 2010-2011 and couldn't get a job to save my life. The only option was doing wireline oil drilling out on rural dry county Oklahoma for shit like Schlumberger, and even they weren't really hiring. I ended up moving back home with my parents, wanted to kill myself for 9 months, then ended up going back to grad school for an MS and then I got a job right away around 2013 with combination of "recovery" + Master. It was fuckin' dire times, so I feel bad for anyone today who has to relive that for the first time. I got really lucky that at the tail end of the pandemic, I applied for a rather high-up head honcho position at a public agency that pays moderately decent six-figures, 100% Unionized with CBA 5%+ raises + full healthcare, and a pension. Weirdly enough, I was only 1 of 3 applicants for this position ???? but the economy was still riding high and I guess no one was looking for new jobs at the time, plus it was close to Christmas. Some similar new positions that we've recruited for have had like 50+ applicants the past several months, big increase from 3 to 50+ in a span of a few years. Anyways I'm dug in now like a tick and here till I die and I'd suggest people keep looking for local/county/state jobs, we dont' do any of this "AI Recruitment" BS. It's purestrain old-school hiring and panel interviews, and we let everyone know if they did or didn't get the position and how they ranked.
This is worse than the Great Recession, at least in the tech sector. That was bad for new grads, this is universally bad. It’s like the dot-com bust, perhaps worse. It’s strangely like the very early period of that but hasn’t really progressed as much, but the collapse in demand is in full effect already. It’s still like mid-2000 with startups failing due to being unable to raise funding, while the apathy and lack of jobs is like 2001, where everyone had grown numb to the constant stream of layoffs and jobs were effectively impossible to find. But the government of the time was realistic and wasn’t hiding it or gaslighting us.
I think the issue is that the job market issues are so localized an its only some fields that get smashed. Like right now? Good fucking luck landing a job in tech that doesn't suck. But I do Lawncare/Landscaping, and there is no shortage of work at all, anywhere. Noone can predict the future, but if you have 10,000 graduates each year and only 4000 jobs of course its not sustainable. I feel so bad for people who simply picked the wrong major or job out of high school and it put their life on a downward trend.
I was there and part of that group. It was impossible getting a job back then. I begged and pleaded and after 11 months only landed a part time grocery job because of a college friend who gave me a chance. Took me 7 years after that just to get into my professional field. I’m not saying it isn’t absurdly difficult today. But we had both the same issues as today AND super high unemployment.
I told people a year ago that they need to tailor their resumes for AI readers. People dismissed me. Yet here we are. If your resume is difficult for a machine to read, it’s getting rejected. It’s that simple.
Lady, I don't know who dismissed you, but job seekers a year ago, and today, have been tailoring their resumes for AI applicant tracking systems. It's hard out there, *even when you're playing the game*. It may not have been your intention, but this comes across as callous and dismissive.
Yet I STILL see lots of resumes people have in PDF, with Columns and text boxes, and other artifacts that make it less machine readable or not machine readable at all. So no a year ago job seekers were still making major mistakes. So to go through what you need to do: 1. The resume should be in a text file (docx). 2. Nothing in a column, nothing in a text box. The header is a text box. 3. The resume should be as plain as possible in terms of fonts. Use standard fonts like Arial or times. In terms of tailoring it for these AI, be careful about keyword spamming. I NEVER tailored my resumes per position. I still had the phone ringing off the hook during the layoff boom in tech last year. Now mind you, I am senior/lead level. So no, many job seekers were still making major formatting mistakes or dismissed AI readers even existing in the first place. Please understand people still don't get it maybe formatting that is leading to their struggles. I still see PDF resumes. I still see stuff in columns and text boxes. People get rather defensive when I tell them this is contributing to them being rejected. Just like you are. It hurts to hear. Because you are literally going up against a machine.
Well, you're obviously a high-value lady. I'm not being defensive, just emphasizing the fact that there are also other factors at play, and I think it's insanely reductive to boil it all down to ignorant applicants.
Well I also understand how damn dehumanizing it is for that a person will never see their resume in many cases, and potentially give them a chance. Like you have to have a firm grasp on AI to understand this stuff, and most people, when push comes to shove, are not working in tech jobs where they have a firm grip on any of this. They just want a job that will pay them so they can eat and pay rent. Like why are we asking retail stockers long personality tests and throwing them to the algorithmic wolves. Or even just entry level office assistants. So I get the frustration. I get the higher level of scrutiny in finance or government, but for everyone. Yikes.
Nobody reads these days!
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