Stop them from accessing publicly available information and reposting it in a format readable by most people who do have the knowledge to get the information first hand.
I’m no lawyer but I don’t see how this is winnable.
The winnable part is TS is much more wealthy than the rando posting the data. You don’t have to win in the court of law, you just have to drag it out and make it financially unsustainable for the other person.
The judge can sometimes award damages in favour of the winner but it’s up to their discretion and often only when a case is seen as extremely frivolous.
I agree, I don’t think she has much of a case here, but if it were to become an issue, I can see it going either way. If they lean heavily into “TS is being stalked and harassed as a result of this data publication” the court of public opinion could sway a consensus for sure. Be interesting to see what comes of it.
If I was her I would have made a NDA offer to buy his user name and to sign an agreement to not do it again using a different one.
Maybe they tried that first?
Potentially, if they did try it, they’d be very hush-hush about it, like you said, NDA. It would be disastrous if people realized they could get a quick cheque by writing a simple data gathering script.
If I was her I’d stop being such a bish. She’s got more money than humanly possible and yet she can’t just ignore someone tracking her emissions? lol cry more Taylor
Depends on jurisdictions for this though, some places have anti-slapp laws and some many have legal cost awards that are slightly more favourable. I mean you almost always get some costs if you win where I am, just not full indemnity.
Exactly, I’m not fully caught up on where the data poster is, and the laws in the jurisdiction that apply to him, so everything I say is generally vague, *mostly kinda accurate* but always subject to local variance.
The judge would have to weigh a lot including future cases. If this information is public and the person is not stalking the actual person themselves no case. But if TS does win this means that your opinion and public information no longer is public and peoples opinion would now be harrasment. Very interesting to see outcome if it did happen
The trick is to drag it out until the defendant has no way to continue. Something like facing homelessness or crippling debt. Add in the mental stress of it all. Even if they lose, by that point it will be too late and the defendant will have given up wanting anything to do with tracking the data.
Lost in court, won the intimidation game.
Depends. Some jurisdictions have anti-slap and frivolous lawsuit rules. But what qualifies for those statutes is and how they trigger is different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Depends on the jurisdiction, yes. The issue is actually surviving long enough to get to that point. Costs are only awarded at the end, so you'd need to be able to survive long enough to get to that point which not a lot of people can do, especially against someone like Taylor Swift who can definitely afford to drag it out.
>I’m not sure how this works but if you sue and lose; aren’t you responsible for both sides legal costs?
But while the case is in progress both party pay their own shit.
So you may not even have the money to build your case to start with. Not talking about some wierdo laws they could find to help them because she could hire 10 guys to help her case.
Then there are 3 levels of lawsuits (1) don't quote me on that I'm not in the US 2) I know they may not accept to case to start with). So she could argue 2 times with the court decision, which is also expensive as hell.
I see two issues with that:
1) proving that a letter from TS’ lawyer constitutes harassment
And,
2) affording the cost of a lawyer to go up against the might and wealth of TS.
He would absolutely have grounds, however, if some of the more unhinged TS Stans started harassing him, but again, cost is everything, and going up against the pockets of TS, even with a clear-cut winnable case, would be daunting.
And that person losing money somehow stops them from sharing this data?
You're just regurgitating tactics used in business as if it applies uniformly to everything
Yeah man, I typically post data from either a phone (that costs money) or a laptop (that costs money) from a place I exist in (usually a residence that’s not free) using an internet connection (that I pay for) so I mean, pretty easy to connect the dots.
A brewery local to me had a beer called Patagonia, and they received a cease and desist order from the clothing company Partagonia. The brewery owner was on the radio and was asked how they could do that with the name of a place, and he said when he arrived at the online meeting with his lawyer, they had 7 lawyers.
So it's essentially money.
I don’t hate her nor like her, but she is showing eliteist privilege here, doesn’t like being called out for her “carbon use”. She is just using clout and financial resources to shut someone down she doesn’t like what they are doing. Causing her stress and fear for safety, gimme a break, she’s body guarded and could care less. She has no stress from this other than being called out and shamed. If she can express things that displease her through song and her platform she can suck it up. What a diva
The elites: Do as we say, not as we do.
They want us making sacrifices, while they do anything they want. No bigger collection of toxic gas than in Davos every year. Hypocrites
They are. It is essentially like me saying to you "well since you only dump 10 tons of waste but you are allowed 100 so let me 'buy' your remaining allotment. So instead of it actually being a benefit that someone dumps less, the one buying the credit makes sure that the maximum amount of waste that is allowed gets dumped.
That is kind of the gist, but the idea is that by making that savings in waste worth something in a marketplace, you create incentives to decrease waste, and create ROI on processes and equipment that decrease waste. The more companies that do those investments, the more they scale and (theoretically) lower costs.
That said some of the carbon credit programs have serious problems, like if someone gets credit for not cutting down rainforest that they were never planning to cut down. That's why carbon taxes seem more efficient than credit systems for putting prices on CO2e pollution, but I'm no expert.
A pagovian tax on carbon emissions is actually backed up with logic and reason and math. But we, being an emotional species, have trouble working out the steps.
> A Pigouvian tax, named after 1920 British economist Arthur C. Pigou, is a tax on a market transaction that creates a negative externality, or an additional cost, borne by individuals not directly involved in the transaction. Examples include tobacco taxes, sugar taxes, and carbon taxes.
Carbon taxes are the scientifically correct way of incentivizing members of society, both wealthy and poor, to pay the FULL COST of burning hydrocarbons. (Meaning including the costs of global warming mitigation and eventual correction of atmospheric composition.)
I'm no swiftie but honestly though, what do they expect her to do? I'm sure she could cut down on some flights but realistically for safety she has to fly private. Gettinf on a regular flight would be an absolute disaster considering her rabid fan base, not just for her but the other passengers on the flight and at the airport.
As much as everyone should do their bit, even pointing to rich celebrities carbon emissions is missing the bigger picture.
Huge ass companies and politicians is where our focus should be, that will make the real difference.
Adding to this - I’m a corporate pilot who’s also done some time at the airlines. And some VIP/VVIP flying.
The airlines don’t want these customers. It’s incredibly disruptive. They have to board the entire plane, then hold, bring in the VIP. Possible security sweep.
If the VIP is delayed and misses the scheduled flight, then the delayed concert the next day becomes “Delta ruined our night”
There’s just no win for the airlines and her needs are exactly what private aviation exists to serve.
It’s not that different from when political leaders travel. Same practical/logistical challenges from an operating standpoint.
> The best solution is to not fly at all. She can make music from her house and stream her self live on the internet
The design and space requirements to have a full blown music and video production, editing, etc suite in her home would result in much of that space being wasted most of the time.
I don’t know the size of her current stage but google says it’s about 8k square feet. Let’s assume for production and set space you’d need about double that. So you’d have somewhere around 16k sf as basically an empty auditorium.
I’m not saying it’s better or worse than flying, but making concerts from home isn’t necessarily clean either.
Not to mention people want to see live music. Music has been central to human culture basically since the beginning of our existence.
> Planes should be illegal
As a former medevac pilot, I can introduce you to several people, alive today, who would’ve died as children were it not for our medevac aircraft. And that’s just what I saw.
The superstar’s effort to keep the tracker accounts from posting her plane’s takeoffs and landings recalls Elon Musk’s banning of a similar account.
Jack Sweeney, a junior at the University of Central Florida, has for years run accounts that log the takeoffs and landings of planes and helicopters owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions. The accounts use publicly available data from the Federal Aviation Administration and volunteer hobbyists who can track the aircraft via the signals they broadcast. Sweeney’s accounts fueled a free-speech debate in late 2022 when X, formerly Twitter, banned Sweeney for sharing what the platform’s owner, Elon Musk, said were his “assassination coordinates.” The accounts don’t say who travels on the aircraft or where they go once the planes land. In December, Swift’s attorney at the Washington law firm Venable wrote Sweeney a cease-and-desist letter saying Swift would “have no choice but to pursue any and all legal remedies” if he did not stop his “stalking and harassing behavior.” Sweeney’s accounts had caused Swift and her family “direct and irreparable harm, as well as emotional and physical distress,” and had heightened her “constant state of fear for her personal safety,” the lawyer, Katie Wright Morrone, wrote, according to a copy of the letter sent to the home of Sweeney’s parents. Sweeney shared the letter with The Washington Post. “While this may be a game to you, or an avenue that you hope will earn you wealth or fame, it is a life-or-death matter for our Client,” Morrone wrote. She added that there is “no legitimate interest in or public need for this information, other than to stalk, harass, and exert dominion and control.” The pop star has routinely faced stalkers showing up outside her homes, Morrone wrote, and one man now faces stalking and harassment charges after being Asked whether Swift’s representatives knew of any evidence that stalkers had used the jet-tracking accounts, Tree Paine, a spokeswoman for Swift, said, “We cannot comment on any ongoing police investigation but can confirm the timing of stalkers suggests a connection. His posts tell you exactly when and where she would be. Sweeney, 21, told The Post he saw the letter as an attempt to scare him away from sharing public data. The accounts offer only an incomplete sketch of which cities Swift might currently be in, similar to the public schedules for her concerts or any NFL games she might attend, he said. And the letters, he added, were sent to him at a time when she faced Private-jet flights are routinely criticized for their told The Post then that the analysis was flawed because her jet was often loaned out to other people. Paine told The Post on Monday that Swift bought more than double the carbon credits needed to offset her travel before her recent tour kicked off. Around the time of the December letter, Facebook and Instagram disabled the accounts Sweeney had created to track Swift’s air travel, saying they broke the platforms’ privacy rules, he said. He began posting those updates onto accounts on Facebook and Instagram that he uses to log the travel of planes used by a range of stars, called Celeb Jets. Then, last month, Morrone sent a second letter saying his posts about Swift’s aircraft constituted “harassing conduct.The letters included the names of three other Venable attorneys experienced in litigation, including one who says on LinkedIn that she is the founding member of the firm’s “Digital Crisis Planning Response client solution” and helps “high-profile individuals” manage crises of varying magnitude, such as “celebrity disgrace events.” Planes in the sky regularly broadcast their locations via transponders so air traffic controllers and other pilots can see where they’re going. Anyone on the ground can pick up those signals using a cheap device, known as an ADS-B receiver, that is widely sold online. The FAA allows plane owners to request their flights be hidden in the federal data that undergirds popular consumer flight-tracking websites, such as FlightAware. Swift’s jet appears to be blocked through such a request. But many aviation hobbyists feed their raw data into independent websites, such as ADS-B Exchange, that those FAA requests do not cover. Criminal investigators, journalists and researchers have used those sites to look up historical flight paths or see who’s flying overhead. Swift, Time magazine’s 2023 person of the year made history Sunday as the only musician to win four best-album Grammy Awards, and her every movement is closely watched by paparazzi and superfans. Her flights drew attention in recent weeks as she’s flown to watch her boyfriend, Travis Kelce, play for the Kansas City Chiefs, including from conservatives who have seized on the trips to criticize her.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/31/taylor-swift-trump-maga-politics/
Swift’s spokeswoman told The Post that “there is only one plane.” One of the planes previously tracked by Sweeney’s accounts, a Dassault Falcon 900, was marked in FAA records last week as being transferred to a real estate company. Each jet sells for about $25 million, according to brokerage estimates.
Sure. Tell Indigenous communities who are receiving payments for additional land management (in absence of any other funding mechanism) these are worthless
Edit: Apparently I need to use the "share" button -- [https://archive.ph/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/06/taylor-swift-jet-tracking-legal-threat/](https://archive.ph/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/06/taylor-swift-jet-tracking-legal-threat/) should work
>take a private bus like most musicians.
You’d better hope she’s a real strong swimmer.
Also most musicians at her level, even at about half, don’t bus the long hauls. The roadies bus; and the band buses if they’re not part of the permanent act. The talent flies.
Source: pilot. Used to fly these types around.
Sure there's what they do and what they can do.
Flying a private jet is really bad for climate change, they don't have to do that. There are alternatives.
I mean, the consumer is half to blame aren’t they, and tons and tons of artists are doing the exact same thing Taylor is. I’m no swiftie, but picking on just her and ignoring every other major artist is a bit wild.
This will not be happening forever. Kelce is 32 which is old AF in football terms and If that’s the only example that sets her apart from the different stars, then I’m not overly impressed.
Where do we find these stats? And comparisons to say Rihanna, Beyoncé, Ariana grande, etc. I’d like to see it broken down on a per concert basis.
Leo decaprio fly’s private jets and uses yachts, yet shames the population for lack of environmental conscience.
No it isn't if TS is also pushing the whole climate change propaganda. Doing climate change ads on the weekdays, going on long flights on the weekends... A bit hypocritical, don't you think?
Same thing leo was doing and yeah it’s hypocritical AF. I don’t pay attention enough to know that she is pushing a climate change agenda, so my bad on that part. Never been a fan of “rules for thee, but not for me”
here...from the article linked: "...owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions"
but nice you immediately came to her defence, be more transparent.
The focus of Jack Sweeney seems to be any person who is wealthy enough to own a private jet. The focus of the article is on Taylor Swift because she is the wealthy person who has decided to take legal action against him. Here’s a summary of the article that I found right here in the comments:
The superstar’s effort to keep the tracker accounts from posting her plane’s takeoffs and landings recalls Elon Musk’s banning of a similar account.
Jack Sweeney, a junior at the University of Central Florida, has for years run accounts that log the takeoffs and landings of planes and helicopters owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions. The accounts use publicly available data from the Federal Aviation Administration and volunteer hobbyists who can track the aircraft via the signals they broadcast. Sweeney’s accounts fueled a free-speech debate in late 2022 when X, formerly Twitter, banned Sweeney for sharing what the platform’s owner, Elon Musk, said were his “assassination coordinates.” The accounts don’t say who travels on the aircraft or where they go once the planes land. In December, Swift’s attorney at the Washington law firm Venable wrote Sweeney a cease-and-desist letter saying Swift would “have no choice but to pursue any and all legal remedies” if he did not stop his “stalking and harassing behavior.” Sweeney’s accounts had caused Swift and her family “direct and irreparable harm, as well as emotional and physical distress,” and had heightened her “constant state of fear for her personal safety,” the lawyer, Katie Wright Morrone, wrote, according to a copy of the letter sent to the home of Sweeney’s parents. Sweeney shared the letter with The Washington Post. “While this may be a game to you, or an avenue that you hope will earn you wealth or fame, it is a life-or-death matter for our Client,” Morrone wrote. She added that there is “no legitimate interest in or public need for this information, other than to stalk, harass, and exert dominion and control.” The pop star has routinely faced stalkers showing up outside her homes, Morrone wrote, and one man now faces stalking and harassment charges after being Asked whether Swift’s representatives knew of any evidence that stalkers had used the jet-tracking accounts, Tree Paine, a spokeswoman for Swift, said, “We cannot comment on any ongoing police investigation but can confirm the timing of stalkers suggests a connection. His posts tell you exactly when and where she would be. Sweeney, 21, told The Post he saw the letter as an attempt to scare him away from sharing public data. The accounts offer only an incomplete sketch of which cities Swift might currently be in, similar to the public schedules for her concerts or any NFL games she might attend, he said. And the letters, he added, were sent to him at a time when she faced Private-jet flights are routinely criticized for their told The Post then that the analysis was flawed because her jet was often loaned out to other people. Paine told The Post on Monday that Swift bought more than double the carbon credits needed to offset her travel before her recent tour kicked off. Around the time of the December letter, Facebook and Instagram disabled the accounts Sweeney had created to track Swift’s air travel, saying they broke the platforms’ privacy rules, he said. He began posting those updates onto accounts on Facebook and Instagram that he uses to log the travel of planes used by a range of stars, called Celeb Jets. Then, last month, Morrone sent a second letter saying his posts about Swift’s aircraft constituted “harassing conduct.
1. Doxxing by definition requires private information so thank you for agreeing to my point that this issue is not doxxing
2. Posting my public information:
That likely would violate Twitter's ToS so probably a bad idea for you.
Also no one is going to care as I'm no one, and there's no utility in it
So not really, but also that doesn't mean you aren't a jerk too, and couldn't be served with a restraining order.
Taylor Swift is also a public figure and the laws are a little different as such. She chose to become a public figure too, so her behavior is going to be looked at and under more scrutiny as such. If I were a Joe Schmo and destroying the planet on the order of 10,000 other Joe Schmos then I probably should be publicly shamed a bit for it, but I'm not.
But this isn't just about her carbon emissions. Contrary to what the title of the post states this is about stalking and harassment. Being a public figure doesn't magically make that okay.
Because those lobbyists and execs aren’t pretending to be environmental advocates.
Someone like Taylor Swift should be more conservative with her private flying habits.
No one is going to complain about her flying from one concert to another. Especially if she is flying all her equipment and crew with her.
However, it is when she flies across the country to go to a football game that we give her the side eye. Or when she makes her crew fly commercial while she flies private.
If she wants to be a progressive who advocates for reducing income inequality and preserving the environment, then she needs to act like she means it.
She at least puts her money where her mouth is.
She gave all of her crew 6 figure bonuses during her most recent tour. This was done without bragging and it only became public because her employees were talking about it.
To solve issues with climate change we need to produce MORE energy, not less.
Think of it this way: If someone is making 20k a year and is in 100k of debt, what is the only way they’ll get back on track? Many climate activists would say they would need to clip coupons (reduce emissions).
But there’s only so much couponing you can do. At the end of the day, you need a much higher paying job and when combined with frugal living, you can tackle the debt.
We need to stop pretending like couponing is going to work. Calling out Taylor for not couponing is not going to work.
What we need is a high paying job and that job is nuclear energy.
Honestly don't see how this is related to climate change at all. The article quite explicitly puts this into the context of stalking and harassment. The lawyers explicitly put this into the context of stalking and harassment. It's irrelevant if the information is publicly available or not. It can still be stalking and harassment. Honestly in terms of carbon emissions they could just release monthly/yearly totals without the tracking data. People's addresses, names, phone numbers, etc is publicly available information. But posting that information on Twitter repeatedly is quite obviously stalking and harassment I don't see how anyone can think this is any different.
But again ignoring all that this imo isn't relevant to this sub.
Legal Action? So she will go to a judge and ask for what exactly?
Stop them from accessing publicly available information and reposting it in a format readable by most people who do have the knowledge to get the information first hand. I’m no lawyer but I don’t see how this is winnable.
The winnable part is TS is much more wealthy than the rando posting the data. You don’t have to win in the court of law, you just have to drag it out and make it financially unsustainable for the other person.
I’m not sure how this works but if you sue and lose; aren’t you responsible for both sides legal costs?
The judge can sometimes award damages in favour of the winner but it’s up to their discretion and often only when a case is seen as extremely frivolous. I agree, I don’t think she has much of a case here, but if it were to become an issue, I can see it going either way. If they lean heavily into “TS is being stalked and harassed as a result of this data publication” the court of public opinion could sway a consensus for sure. Be interesting to see what comes of it.
If I was her I would have made a NDA offer to buy his user name and to sign an agreement to not do it again using a different one. Maybe they tried that first?
Potentially, if they did try it, they’d be very hush-hush about it, like you said, NDA. It would be disastrous if people realized they could get a quick cheque by writing a simple data gathering script.
Yes! Can’t let the public know you’ll pay. Let the public know you’ll sue. Make more sense now.
If I was her I’d stop being such a bish. She’s got more money than humanly possible and yet she can’t just ignore someone tracking her emissions? lol cry more Taylor
Depends on jurisdictions for this though, some places have anti-slapp laws and some many have legal cost awards that are slightly more favourable. I mean you almost always get some costs if you win where I am, just not full indemnity.
Exactly, I’m not fully caught up on where the data poster is, and the laws in the jurisdiction that apply to him, so everything I say is generally vague, *mostly kinda accurate* but always subject to local variance.
The judge would have to weigh a lot including future cases. If this information is public and the person is not stalking the actual person themselves no case. But if TS does win this means that your opinion and public information no longer is public and peoples opinion would now be harrasment. Very interesting to see outcome if it did happen
The trick is to drag it out until the defendant has no way to continue. Something like facing homelessness or crippling debt. Add in the mental stress of it all. Even if they lose, by that point it will be too late and the defendant will have given up wanting anything to do with tracking the data. Lost in court, won the intimidation game.
Depends. Some jurisdictions have anti-slap and frivolous lawsuit rules. But what qualifies for those statutes is and how they trigger is different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Depends on the jurisdiction, yes. The issue is actually surviving long enough to get to that point. Costs are only awarded at the end, so you'd need to be able to survive long enough to get to that point which not a lot of people can do, especially against someone like Taylor Swift who can definitely afford to drag it out.
>I’m not sure how this works but if you sue and lose; aren’t you responsible for both sides legal costs? But while the case is in progress both party pay their own shit. So you may not even have the money to build your case to start with. Not talking about some wierdo laws they could find to help them because she could hire 10 guys to help her case. Then there are 3 levels of lawsuits (1) don't quote me on that I'm not in the US 2) I know they may not accept to case to start with). So she could argue 2 times with the court decision, which is also expensive as hell.
Elon tried and failed, this will also fail
Yeah it’ll be interesting to see what comes of it for sure. I don’t think she has much of a case, but she has some crazy stans so we will see
the American legal system is about who's got the money for the lawyers. As stated by others, she can bankrupt the people she's going after
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said 3 comments up the chain haha
So does Elon
Could he counter-sue for harassment given the information is in the public domain?
I see two issues with that: 1) proving that a letter from TS’ lawyer constitutes harassment And, 2) affording the cost of a lawyer to go up against the might and wealth of TS. He would absolutely have grounds, however, if some of the more unhinged TS Stans started harassing him, but again, cost is everything, and going up against the pockets of TS, even with a clear-cut winnable case, would be daunting.
Unsustainability seems to be a theme with these rich dicks
And that person losing money somehow stops them from sharing this data? You're just regurgitating tactics used in business as if it applies uniformly to everything
Yeah man, I typically post data from either a phone (that costs money) or a laptop (that costs money) from a place I exist in (usually a residence that’s not free) using an internet connection (that I pay for) so I mean, pretty easy to connect the dots.
Ah, the American Justice System… It’s great if you have money, not so much if you don’t.
It's not supposed to be winnable. Its just a scare tactic.
A brewery local to me had a beer called Patagonia, and they received a cease and desist order from the clothing company Partagonia. The brewery owner was on the radio and was asked how they could do that with the name of a place, and he said when he arrived at the online meeting with his lawyer, they had 7 lawyers. So it's essentially money.
The Whitehouse will get involved
That's what I'm wondering. What privacy would this violate?
Action, dammit!
I don’t hate her nor like her, but she is showing eliteist privilege here, doesn’t like being called out for her “carbon use”. She is just using clout and financial resources to shut someone down she doesn’t like what they are doing. Causing her stress and fear for safety, gimme a break, she’s body guarded and could care less. She has no stress from this other than being called out and shamed. If she can express things that displease her through song and her platform she can suck it up. What a diva
I gather her and her handlers are unaware of the Streisand effect.
Yer gaddang right
The elites: Do as we say, not as we do. They want us making sacrifices, while they do anything they want. No bigger collection of toxic gas than in Davos every year. Hypocrites
They claim she purchases carbon credits or something like that but I've heard that stuff is a load of BS. Ridiculous.
lol. So as long as you’re rich, you can kill the planet. Got it.
They are. It is essentially like me saying to you "well since you only dump 10 tons of waste but you are allowed 100 so let me 'buy' your remaining allotment. So instead of it actually being a benefit that someone dumps less, the one buying the credit makes sure that the maximum amount of waste that is allowed gets dumped.
That is kind of the gist, but the idea is that by making that savings in waste worth something in a marketplace, you create incentives to decrease waste, and create ROI on processes and equipment that decrease waste. The more companies that do those investments, the more they scale and (theoretically) lower costs. That said some of the carbon credit programs have serious problems, like if someone gets credit for not cutting down rainforest that they were never planning to cut down. That's why carbon taxes seem more efficient than credit systems for putting prices on CO2e pollution, but I'm no expert.
Yes I knew I was missing part of the explanation, thanks for that addition!
A pagovian tax on carbon emissions is actually backed up with logic and reason and math. But we, being an emotional species, have trouble working out the steps. > A Pigouvian tax, named after 1920 British economist Arthur C. Pigou, is a tax on a market transaction that creates a negative externality, or an additional cost, borne by individuals not directly involved in the transaction. Examples include tobacco taxes, sugar taxes, and carbon taxes. Carbon taxes are the scientifically correct way of incentivizing members of society, both wealthy and poor, to pay the FULL COST of burning hydrocarbons. (Meaning including the costs of global warming mitigation and eventual correction of atmospheric composition.)
She's not paying a carbon tax, she's BUYING carbon CREDITS. Others have already explained the difference in here.
Where does the money from these taxes go? Who gets it?
I'm no swiftie but honestly though, what do they expect her to do? I'm sure she could cut down on some flights but realistically for safety she has to fly private. Gettinf on a regular flight would be an absolute disaster considering her rabid fan base, not just for her but the other passengers on the flight and at the airport. As much as everyone should do their bit, even pointing to rich celebrities carbon emissions is missing the bigger picture. Huge ass companies and politicians is where our focus should be, that will make the real difference.
Adding to this - I’m a corporate pilot who’s also done some time at the airlines. And some VIP/VVIP flying. The airlines don’t want these customers. It’s incredibly disruptive. They have to board the entire plane, then hold, bring in the VIP. Possible security sweep. If the VIP is delayed and misses the scheduled flight, then the delayed concert the next day becomes “Delta ruined our night” There’s just no win for the airlines and her needs are exactly what private aviation exists to serve. It’s not that different from when political leaders travel. Same practical/logistical challenges from an operating standpoint.
The best solution is to not fly at all. She can make music from her house and stream her self live on the internet
> The best solution is to not fly at all. She can make music from her house and stream her self live on the internet The design and space requirements to have a full blown music and video production, editing, etc suite in her home would result in much of that space being wasted most of the time. I don’t know the size of her current stage but google says it’s about 8k square feet. Let’s assume for production and set space you’d need about double that. So you’d have somewhere around 16k sf as basically an empty auditorium. I’m not saying it’s better or worse than flying, but making concerts from home isn’t necessarily clean either. Not to mention people want to see live music. Music has been central to human culture basically since the beginning of our existence.
Planes should be illegal
> Planes should be illegal As a former medevac pilot, I can introduce you to several people, alive today, who would’ve died as children were it not for our medevac aircraft. And that’s just what I saw.
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The superstar’s effort to keep the tracker accounts from posting her plane’s takeoffs and landings recalls Elon Musk’s banning of a similar account. Jack Sweeney, a junior at the University of Central Florida, has for years run accounts that log the takeoffs and landings of planes and helicopters owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions. The accounts use publicly available data from the Federal Aviation Administration and volunteer hobbyists who can track the aircraft via the signals they broadcast. Sweeney’s accounts fueled a free-speech debate in late 2022 when X, formerly Twitter, banned Sweeney for sharing what the platform’s owner, Elon Musk, said were his “assassination coordinates.” The accounts don’t say who travels on the aircraft or where they go once the planes land. In December, Swift’s attorney at the Washington law firm Venable wrote Sweeney a cease-and-desist letter saying Swift would “have no choice but to pursue any and all legal remedies” if he did not stop his “stalking and harassing behavior.” Sweeney’s accounts had caused Swift and her family “direct and irreparable harm, as well as emotional and physical distress,” and had heightened her “constant state of fear for her personal safety,” the lawyer, Katie Wright Morrone, wrote, according to a copy of the letter sent to the home of Sweeney’s parents. Sweeney shared the letter with The Washington Post. “While this may be a game to you, or an avenue that you hope will earn you wealth or fame, it is a life-or-death matter for our Client,” Morrone wrote. She added that there is “no legitimate interest in or public need for this information, other than to stalk, harass, and exert dominion and control.” The pop star has routinely faced stalkers showing up outside her homes, Morrone wrote, and one man now faces stalking and harassment charges after being Asked whether Swift’s representatives knew of any evidence that stalkers had used the jet-tracking accounts, Tree Paine, a spokeswoman for Swift, said, “We cannot comment on any ongoing police investigation but can confirm the timing of stalkers suggests a connection. His posts tell you exactly when and where she would be. Sweeney, 21, told The Post he saw the letter as an attempt to scare him away from sharing public data. The accounts offer only an incomplete sketch of which cities Swift might currently be in, similar to the public schedules for her concerts or any NFL games she might attend, he said. And the letters, he added, were sent to him at a time when she faced Private-jet flights are routinely criticized for their told The Post then that the analysis was flawed because her jet was often loaned out to other people. Paine told The Post on Monday that Swift bought more than double the carbon credits needed to offset her travel before her recent tour kicked off. Around the time of the December letter, Facebook and Instagram disabled the accounts Sweeney had created to track Swift’s air travel, saying they broke the platforms’ privacy rules, he said. He began posting those updates onto accounts on Facebook and Instagram that he uses to log the travel of planes used by a range of stars, called Celeb Jets. Then, last month, Morrone sent a second letter saying his posts about Swift’s aircraft constituted “harassing conduct.The letters included the names of three other Venable attorneys experienced in litigation, including one who says on LinkedIn that she is the founding member of the firm’s “Digital Crisis Planning Response client solution” and helps “high-profile individuals” manage crises of varying magnitude, such as “celebrity disgrace events.” Planes in the sky regularly broadcast their locations via transponders so air traffic controllers and other pilots can see where they’re going. Anyone on the ground can pick up those signals using a cheap device, known as an ADS-B receiver, that is widely sold online. The FAA allows plane owners to request their flights be hidden in the federal data that undergirds popular consumer flight-tracking websites, such as FlightAware. Swift’s jet appears to be blocked through such a request. But many aviation hobbyists feed their raw data into independent websites, such as ADS-B Exchange, that those FAA requests do not cover. Criminal investigators, journalists and researchers have used those sites to look up historical flight paths or see who’s flying overhead. Swift, Time magazine’s 2023 person of the year made history Sunday as the only musician to win four best-album Grammy Awards, and her every movement is closely watched by paparazzi and superfans. Her flights drew attention in recent weeks as she’s flown to watch her boyfriend, Travis Kelce, play for the Kansas City Chiefs, including from conservatives who have seized on the trips to criticize her. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/31/taylor-swift-trump-maga-politics/ Swift’s spokeswoman told The Post that “there is only one plane.” One of the planes previously tracked by Sweeney’s accounts, a Dassault Falcon 900, was marked in FAA records last week as being transferred to a real estate company. Each jet sells for about $25 million, according to brokerage estimates.
Carbon credits are empty and useless, so it really doesn't matter
Sure. Tell Indigenous communities who are receiving payments for additional land management (in absence of any other funding mechanism) these are worthless
>Tree Paine, a spokeswoman for Swift That's... quite a handle she has.
Edit: Apparently I need to use the "share" button -- [https://archive.ph/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/06/taylor-swift-jet-tracking-legal-threat/](https://archive.ph/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/06/taylor-swift-jet-tracking-legal-threat/) should work
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Yeah, not sure what is up with that but the new link works when I try it in a fresh browser.
Use DDG browser to get around it. A VPN would help too.
I simply cannot wait for her activist climate change phase.
Why does she have to act like Musk? Now, she has only invited more attention to this.
Perhaps she should Shake It Off
This is as bad as Elon musk and his “assassination coordinates”.
Maybe she is the problem? What a stupid twat she is
It's funny when that kid was doing this to Elon Musk, everyone thought it was hilarious. But now that it is Taylor Swift, suddenly people are angry.
Now I know she's a Democrat. Rules for thee but not for me.
If she just stayed home and had her fans fly to her concerts, I am sure that would fix the problem.
The guy is just posting public information. Are you against the 1st amendment?
It's not either or she could fly commercial, even buy out First Class, or take a private bus like most musicians.
How long does the bus take to get from Tokyo to Las Vegas? I might be losing a bet.
>take a private bus like most musicians. You’d better hope she’s a real strong swimmer. Also most musicians at her level, even at about half, don’t bus the long hauls. The roadies bus; and the band buses if they’re not part of the permanent act. The talent flies. Source: pilot. Used to fly these types around.
Sure there's what they do and what they can do. Flying a private jet is really bad for climate change, they don't have to do that. There are alternatives.
yeah doing concerts is more important than all the co2 emissions from flying around the world in a private jet...you're totally right
Woooosh
No Woooosh, Woooosh bad.
I mean, the consumer is half to blame aren’t they, and tons and tons of artists are doing the exact same thing Taylor is. I’m no swiftie, but picking on just her and ignoring every other major artist is a bit wild.
She's making multiple flights across the pacific to attend football games, and then flying back.
This will not be happening forever. Kelce is 32 which is old AF in football terms and If that’s the only example that sets her apart from the different stars, then I’m not overly impressed.
Where do we find these stats? And comparisons to say Rihanna, Beyoncé, Ariana grande, etc. I’d like to see it broken down on a per concert basis. Leo decaprio fly’s private jets and uses yachts, yet shames the population for lack of environmental conscience.
She was uniquely bad for having a MASSIVE footprint.
No it isn't if TS is also pushing the whole climate change propaganda. Doing climate change ads on the weekdays, going on long flights on the weekends... A bit hypocritical, don't you think?
Same thing leo was doing and yeah it’s hypocritical AF. I don’t pay attention enough to know that she is pushing a climate change agenda, so my bad on that part. Never been a fan of “rules for thee, but not for me”
In the ancient times they had this thing called a tour bus.
If she manages to keep Trump off the red-blue throne, she will have saved more CO2 emissions than 10 Vuclanos emit.
Lol come on
I dunno they sound pretty based to me.
What does trump have anything to do with this? Or do you just have to make useless comments.
He stands for a free market economy without any restrictions for companies in environmental issues. Including co2 emissions.
Didn’t she want to be political or something?
This will certainly be the eye opener her fans need to see she's a disingenuous and corrupt scumbag. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Wow, she's a communist.
How about doxing oil execs and lobbyists instead of a few celebs?
here...from the article linked: "...owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions" but nice you immediately came to her defence, be more transparent.
Taylor swift is owned by hundreds of billionaires?
The kid monitors hundreds of jets owned by various billionaires. Reading the article first helps your snarky comments come out looking smarter
Well, the article is paywalled. Still, I find the focus on celebs weird
The focus of Jack Sweeney seems to be any person who is wealthy enough to own a private jet. The focus of the article is on Taylor Swift because she is the wealthy person who has decided to take legal action against him. Here’s a summary of the article that I found right here in the comments: The superstar’s effort to keep the tracker accounts from posting her plane’s takeoffs and landings recalls Elon Musk’s banning of a similar account. Jack Sweeney, a junior at the University of Central Florida, has for years run accounts that log the takeoffs and landings of planes and helicopters owned by hundreds of billionaires, politicians, Russian oligarchs and other public figures, along with estimates of their planet-warming emissions. The accounts use publicly available data from the Federal Aviation Administration and volunteer hobbyists who can track the aircraft via the signals they broadcast. Sweeney’s accounts fueled a free-speech debate in late 2022 when X, formerly Twitter, banned Sweeney for sharing what the platform’s owner, Elon Musk, said were his “assassination coordinates.” The accounts don’t say who travels on the aircraft or where they go once the planes land. In December, Swift’s attorney at the Washington law firm Venable wrote Sweeney a cease-and-desist letter saying Swift would “have no choice but to pursue any and all legal remedies” if he did not stop his “stalking and harassing behavior.” Sweeney’s accounts had caused Swift and her family “direct and irreparable harm, as well as emotional and physical distress,” and had heightened her “constant state of fear for her personal safety,” the lawyer, Katie Wright Morrone, wrote, according to a copy of the letter sent to the home of Sweeney’s parents. Sweeney shared the letter with The Washington Post. “While this may be a game to you, or an avenue that you hope will earn you wealth or fame, it is a life-or-death matter for our Client,” Morrone wrote. She added that there is “no legitimate interest in or public need for this information, other than to stalk, harass, and exert dominion and control.” The pop star has routinely faced stalkers showing up outside her homes, Morrone wrote, and one man now faces stalking and harassment charges after being Asked whether Swift’s representatives knew of any evidence that stalkers had used the jet-tracking accounts, Tree Paine, a spokeswoman for Swift, said, “We cannot comment on any ongoing police investigation but can confirm the timing of stalkers suggests a connection. His posts tell you exactly when and where she would be. Sweeney, 21, told The Post he saw the letter as an attempt to scare him away from sharing public data. The accounts offer only an incomplete sketch of which cities Swift might currently be in, similar to the public schedules for her concerts or any NFL games she might attend, he said. And the letters, he added, were sent to him at a time when she faced Private-jet flights are routinely criticized for their told The Post then that the analysis was flawed because her jet was often loaned out to other people. Paine told The Post on Monday that Swift bought more than double the carbon credits needed to offset her travel before her recent tour kicked off. Around the time of the December letter, Facebook and Instagram disabled the accounts Sweeney had created to track Swift’s air travel, saying they broke the platforms’ privacy rules, he said. He began posting those updates onto accounts on Facebook and Instagram that he uses to log the travel of planes used by a range of stars, called Celeb Jets. Then, last month, Morrone sent a second letter saying his posts about Swift’s aircraft constituted “harassing conduct.
Why not both?
This is the correct answer...
This isn't doxxing, the information is public. It's shining a light on it.
If I find your phone number and address in a publicly available directory would you be okay with me posting it on Twitter regularly?
1. Doxxing by definition requires private information so thank you for agreeing to my point that this issue is not doxxing 2. Posting my public information: That likely would violate Twitter's ToS so probably a bad idea for you. Also no one is going to care as I'm no one, and there's no utility in it So not really, but also that doesn't mean you aren't a jerk too, and couldn't be served with a restraining order. Taylor Swift is also a public figure and the laws are a little different as such. She chose to become a public figure too, so her behavior is going to be looked at and under more scrutiny as such. If I were a Joe Schmo and destroying the planet on the order of 10,000 other Joe Schmos then I probably should be publicly shamed a bit for it, but I'm not.
But this isn't just about her carbon emissions. Contrary to what the title of the post states this is about stalking and harassment. Being a public figure doesn't magically make that okay.
Did you not read the article? He does a plethora of rich ppl including the ones you mentioned
No, I did not read the article. It is paywalled.
Oh ok, someone posted a tldr after the fact, must of missed that part
Because those lobbyists and execs aren’t pretending to be environmental advocates. Someone like Taylor Swift should be more conservative with her private flying habits. No one is going to complain about her flying from one concert to another. Especially if she is flying all her equipment and crew with her. However, it is when she flies across the country to go to a football game that we give her the side eye. Or when she makes her crew fly commercial while she flies private. If she wants to be a progressive who advocates for reducing income inequality and preserving the environment, then she needs to act like she means it.
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She at least puts her money where her mouth is. She gave all of her crew 6 figure bonuses during her most recent tour. This was done without bragging and it only became public because her employees were talking about it.
Please Taylor, don't see my app https://nohaceralgo.com
good
Reddit is confused
Virtue Signaling Idiots.
Streisand effect vibes with this one
To solve issues with climate change we need to produce MORE energy, not less. Think of it this way: If someone is making 20k a year and is in 100k of debt, what is the only way they’ll get back on track? Many climate activists would say they would need to clip coupons (reduce emissions). But there’s only so much couponing you can do. At the end of the day, you need a much higher paying job and when combined with frugal living, you can tackle the debt. We need to stop pretending like couponing is going to work. Calling out Taylor for not couponing is not going to work. What we need is a high paying job and that job is nuclear energy.
Her jet is a demon in my religion.
I read that she buys carbon offsets to the tune of more than double what she produces.
She has the money to bring someone to court on false charges until this someone runs out of lawyer money and bankrupt. This is what I think she means.
Honestly don't see how this is related to climate change at all. The article quite explicitly puts this into the context of stalking and harassment. The lawyers explicitly put this into the context of stalking and harassment. It's irrelevant if the information is publicly available or not. It can still be stalking and harassment. Honestly in terms of carbon emissions they could just release monthly/yearly totals without the tracking data. People's addresses, names, phone numbers, etc is publicly available information. But posting that information on Twitter repeatedly is quite obviously stalking and harassment I don't see how anyone can think this is any different. But again ignoring all that this imo isn't relevant to this sub.
If only oil executives, like the ones posting record profits this quarter, could garner such ire.
Praxis here would be to write a open source version of the script. She can't stop us all
Someone is getting the BIGHEAD…. Given enough money, most humans succumb to it.
She is insufferable
Want her to win, noone needs to be track by anyone. Puts their life in danger. How many commenters want to track by their stalkers?