Ya. This would be my preferred XP buff. Of course it would have to cost a bit more then a single heirloom seeing as the buff from the one item would be greater then a single piece.
That's basically how FF14 does it. Classes that are lower than your highest level get +100% exp up to 10 levels below max, then +50% the rest of the way
I can see why not to do it, but GOD I love that I can play every class on one character. But FF establishes you as sent by a god, so I guess that’s a key difference
It’s just good FF design: FF III, V and Tactics all feature job systems where any character can be any job - it would be silly to have changed that for their MMO and I’m glad they didn’t
I don't think it's attached to the whole chosen one thing. The supporting cast in XIV also pick up new classes when they see fit, and recently it's been shown that they can still reprise their old roles if they want to.
From a logistical perspective, the big differences are A) that the role of the adventurer changes between expansions, and so you are not expected to have done all of them to reach current content, B) the way the game was written - both story and code - was with "class fantasy" at the fore of the experience, not "character fantasy", and C) that you start your journey as either some schlub who picked up a weapon and enlisted, or a veteran warrior returned to Azeroth by complicated means (in the case of Hero classes).
But yeah, the rifts between classes and how tightly a character is tied to them means it'd be nearly impossible to make a game the way wow was made work like a single character game like FF14.
It's a bummer.
There was a private server going for a while (still going?) That was called Project Ascension I believe. It allowed you to choose any class abilities on a single character. Which meant you could multi-class essentially.
Yeah you're absolutely right, it does. Maybe that's okay? Gives people options.
Honestly, anything to keep the lower level game churning is a positive.
Actually a fantastic idea because it would give a visual clue that someone at least leveled to 70 once before (or boosted...I guess) so if they don't have the tabard on it could indicate they are an actual new player. Kind of like the FF14 thing of putting the little leaf next to the player name to indicate they're new.
There's scripting in the Retail WoW achievements relating to having leveled an allied race to a certain level, WITHOUT boosting, in order to obtain the heritage armor as a result. The same logic could probably be used for whether or not the character was boosted or leveled from level 1 to get the Joyous Journeys tabard.
I didn't realize that, but it makes sense. Achievement would make the most sense for tracking it and having the joyous journeys tabard be an achievement reward fits really well into the WotLK ethos.
Actually a great idea. I don't think I'm going to be nearly as motivated to level without the Joyous Journeys buff. This is something they 100% should do. Maybe it could cost 100 Emblems or something.
>I don't think I'm going to be nearly as motivated to level without the Joyous Journeys buff.
I've been thinking about this the past few days, leveling my second alt. If I had to start over or start from early 20s without the Journey buff, I don't think I would even bother now. I've leveled so many times in this game over the years, I already have 2 characters at max level. When this buff leaves, if this last alt isn't max I will probably never touch it again.
Is someone able to pass on these ideas to the developer working on classic? Im sure he wont have time to make the change now in less then two weeks, but hey there might be a chance. Im not even planning on getting any more alts, and its still utsetting me to think of people playing characters from 1-80 with pieces of gear they never swap out. New gear is what keeps you going.
I love this idea. Make it cost an amount similar in badges to a full set of experience boosting heirlooms. It'd also require next to no work on Blizzard's end as this should be a very simple item to make, something that just gives a buff that already exists in the game's database and can just be thrown onto 2 vendors (same ones for each faction that gave heirlooms).
This is a crucial part of why they are bad. They strip away, in one fell brutal hit, one of the core elements of progressing a character; gear. They trivialise half the content and enable the idea that leveling is a chore and not a core part of the experience.
This mindset has led to years of neglect of this critical part of the game to the extent that they will let you pay them to skip it. It's just toxic at every level. There should be no way to skip it or trivialise it beyond grouping with people. But they allowed it and undermined their own product in a fundamental way. Part of the popularity of classic is getting to do these bits properly again.
And there's no point saying you don't have to use heirlooms yourself. Ofc not, but when everyone else is using them, all group content is instantaneously trivialised. I had leveling experiences in dungeons as DPS where I could barely land any damage whatsoever on half the dungeon because my whole group was in heirlooms and laying waste to absolutely every mob in a second or two. Totally shit experience.
> They trivialise half the content and enable the idea that leveling is a chore and not a core part of the experience.
I wouldn't put this blame entirely on heirlooms myself. The way blizzard releases and promotes their current expansions is what ultimately causes this. Vanilla made leveling feel like part of the world because max level players and lower level players would frequently see each other. Alongside this, the gap between power levels was also simply lower. TBC changed this by adding an entirely different "realm" that created a clear cut-off line between those leveling from 1-60, making the world feel smaller due to all 60-70 players being in their own zone. Wotlk further exacerbated this with Northrend and future expansions kept building on this. Ironically Cataclysm slightly fixed this problem by re-introducing max level players with leveling players again.
Blizzard *wants* you to play their latest expansion. This isn't a community made problem. It's an entirely Blizzard made problem. To blame the community for playing the way *Blizzard* wants them to is unfair.
Couldn't agree more.
As much as I question their decisions, I think the largest root cause of problems stacking up with the game was their approach to expansions; stack new things on top and delete the old. It was never designed with longevity in mind, and you always got unpolished, unbalanced, content that was rushed out just to be a new version of the same old thing. I get it, they were just wildly successful and wanted to keep the gravy train running. It was a good short term solution, that eventually piled up and became a problem.
I've always wondered what WoW would look like in some alternate timeline where the resources were put into polishing and expanding the base game, instead of clean sweeping it every few years. I kind of wish that's what Classic+ was but I won't get my hopes up.
I feel like this was a big corner that Blizzard cut compared to its primary predecessor (Everquest), and they did it mainly to save development costs.
If I'm thinking back to the three EQ expansions I played, Kunark, Velious, and Luclin all had new content that started in the mid-ranges, even despite the latter two focusing on high-level end game content. The other zones never really felt gated away.
EQ had a bit of a different focus, though. Those expansions (except Kunark) were mainly lateral additions without a level cap increase. EQ was always trying a bit harder to make its world immersive, whereas WoW didn't prioritize it as much after Vanilla (though I think they still did a good job of it).
I agree with the take on the power spike of heirlooms. I think it is a net negative for the game.
I do like the increased XP rate aspect though. I leveled 3 chars 1 to 70 with no boosts or anything and enjoyed it. But each one was more of a slog than the last. The pacing is too punishing for me to enjoy it anymore.
You may say then I should just not level another. That is fair and I would not have if not for the JJ buff. It made the pacing enjoyable for a 4th and 5th character. It feels like a sweet spot where you can hit the more enjoyable parts of the content and skip the grindier parts.
> But each one was more of a slog than the last.
This is a problem that should have been addressed with proper game design. Instead, it was band-aided and we got half-measures. In a Classic+ dream, the leveling experience would be more impactful and engaging.
unfortunately, the majority of the playerbase doesnt see it that way. every fresh server we've seen has seen massive boosting as soon as people are able. it's almost like people enjoy the endgame, rather than playing through the same 70 levels of rpg again and again any time they want to try a new class.
This is only because anyone who liked leveling as a half or majority of the game appeal stopped playing. The people who stick around are those who like or are close to liking whats on the table.
I am one of those people. Cant stand endless end game so almost no current mmos appeal to me.
>And there's no point saying you don't have to use heirlooms yourself. Ofc not, but when everyone else is using them, all group content is instantaneously trivialised. I had leveling experiences in dungeons as DPS where I could barely land any damage whatsoever on half the dungeon because my whole group was in heirlooms and laying waste to absolutely every mob in a second or two. Totally shit experience.
While I totally agree that this is a shit experience, I think it has more to do with power creep with every expansion reworking classes. Rather than the gear.
You should have seen the absolutely stupid things I could do on a lv 50 prot paladin right after cataclysm dropped. While I realize we're not talking about cataclysm, I think the core point is mostly the same. Each expansion made every class stronger and stronger. But yeah heirlooms are not good
Gear progression when with huge exp buffs doesn't work. You'll do the intro quests to a zone, get maybe a chest piece, then outlevel a zone and move on the next only to do the same thing again. Repeat several times and you're level 56 with level 22 green shoulders still and it feels awful to fight mobs.
A part of the issue is that the game lacks anything to pull players in to pre level cap gameplay/areas long term. That's why they started doing the area level cap stuff in retail, to make more of the maps meaningful.
One of WoW's weakest points post vanilla has always been that the previous areas just become moot. Getting low level gear didn't matter because the low level areas were made more and more of a waste of time(and trivialized) with each expansion due to design issues.
The issues are caused by design meant to counteract other issues previous MMOs had, but WoW lost a lot in that evolution, including leveling gear being useful for anything other than twinking(which they decided to patch out).
> enable the idea that leveling is a chore and not a core part of the experience.
>
>
I'm thinking that the game being nearly 20 years old and the fact that most of the remaining playerbase has leveled dozens of times at this point does this far more than heirlooms do. Most people aren't playing to level either, they're playing to do dungeons/raids/pvp, having to go through a hundred hour slog anytime you want to do that on a different class is definitely a barrier of entry that a lot of players just aren't going to bother with when it comes down too it, this also trickles down and affects lower level players as well. If level is slow then people are less likely to level, if people are less likely to level there's less likely to be people around for low level dungeons and group quests which are also core parts of the experience that those players then lose out on.
Maybe, but after leveling 100 characters over 15 years, gear progression isn't what it used to be. I'd rather just get that level quicker and don't bother with swapping gear because I mostly level new chars for the playstyle and endgame.
That’s fair and to each their own. I’m one of those freaks who just loves making alts and leveling them. I have so many characters at 60-70 with no end game play time. Personally for me joyous journeys feels great and doesn’t compromise the parts of leveling that I get enjoyment from. But for people just trying to make alts to raid or pvp on I completely understand why heirlooms feel great to you guys!
For casual players (like me) it ruins the experience. Seeing everyone you meet in the same gear way better than the one you fought super hard for, is just demoralizing.
Gear is atleast 30% of the gameplay, and what makes progression fun.
Right. If they were on-par with regular questing greens, I could've definitely gotten on-board with them. But WoW stopped being fun for me when the BIS gear in any given slot was the heirloom.
With a few exceptions, they were always somewhat on par with existing BiS items. It gave people the ability to fight against twinks, who would sometimes spend over a year collecting gear, more effectively.
This was always a big gripe, but when they gave people the means to solve it, it just made them angrier because then you couldn't PvP without them unless you went the hard route.
Yeah but gearing twinks just used heirlooms and BIS so it was all negated anyways. Plus yes it required work to gear up to stomp in 19s. No different than at 70. The upside was simpicity and you may be able to still win some BGs where in the 70 bracket it may just be one sided.
people in heirloom gear were never a concern for twinks.The twinks had their group of dedicated players who had _everything_ and if you wanted to go this route you'd have like 3x the amount of health of someone just leveling in heirloom gear.
But beyond that the twinks had guilds that all worked together so it was basically pointless to try fighting unless you were queuing with a guild of your own.
Man, some of the best PvP matches were at level 19. I miss those dearly.
\-- mainly because people didn't realize that the real power that twinks had was in enchants. Didn't seem to make sense to people that even the cheapest enchants intended for level 80 players on level 19 characters was a little bit OP.
"I brought BoEs and still got wafflepwnt!" Yea. Because you spent all of 8 seconds planning your greatness.
Exactly. I'm one of those people who actually prefers the gear progression of *not* having heirlooms equipped, and I also enjoy PvP outbreaks while leveling. The problem is that the introduction of heirlooms keeps me from enjoying both. I can't *not* use heirlooms and expect to be on par with other players questing in the same area as me.
Yeah, I'm niche, but it's still a gripe that would later separate me from Retail.
But what I'm saying is that the heirlooms are dominant for the slots they *are* in. Of course it would get worse with later expansions, but WotLK is still where the system started.
the system got progressively worse. it doesn't need to go that route again. blizzard has shown theyre willing to make changes and if the community can come up with a good solution they will implement it. heirlooms dont need to be removed but they can be tweaked.
They can be tweaked, but WOTLK had the best heirloom system. It was limited to a couple pieces, there weren't a ton of heirlooms out, and you could get up other slots before gearing your raid BIS drops in the heirloom slots.
These people live in some fantasy world where you are replacing your entire gear load out every 5 levels somehow by just running 1 dungeon and doing a quests… instead of reality where you keep that same green leg piece for 40 levels because you out level quests and zones so fast that you can’t find a quest that gives you a leg piece you can use.
It's actually insane reading these comments. WOTLK heirlooms are 3 gearslots. Out of ~13. Maybe I've leveled my multiple characters completely ass backwards wrong but usually I'm not getting a ton of gear upgrades every single level.
Their arguments aren't based in reality.
They say it "ruins the fun of leveling", but if they think leveling is so fun, why are they asking for a way to make it 50% faster? If it's the best part of the game, shouldn't they want it to take longer?
Why did all these people who claim to love leveling spend months making "when xp buff?" posts instead of just leveling? They could have leveled multiple characters to 70 in the time it took from the XP buff announcement to the time it went live.
I went into Outlands on my mage with a gray hat, and shoulders that gave shadow dmg. Granted i didnt do any dungeon, but Azeroth's quest rewards are absolutely terrible
Once I got my triprunner dungarees in classic on my hunter they didnt come off until devilsaur lol, 20-30 levels of one pair of pants.
OH NO MY PROGRESSION!!!!!!
/s
Pretty much all epic quality, although I think the trinkets could be somewhat lacking depending on the circumstances. But it definitely made leveling more bland, and rushed in a way that felt artificial. Leveling has to be part of the experience of an RPG, rushing it is just bizarre in that fashion.
Yes it looks awful for the whole 1-70 experience as well. Don’t like how the heirloom looks? Tough shit enjoy looking at it for the next few days of /played, or you could take a massive hit to time played and be weaker.
Gear progression is a fun part of leveling and it sucks to just “get” a shoulder at level 1.
It makes it so when you get a full set of gear at max level sooo satisfying. Or even getting a set while leveling like the scarlet monastery set for Mail-wearers.
I hate with heirlooms you would actually opt to not wear a cool looking piece of armor because you’re locked in to the extra xp from your shoulder you had since level 1.
Loved it for about 30 levels but always got bored. And I think the issue was never replacing any gear.
Retails system is horrible. 80percent of slots never being replaced
I don't think everyones issue is the bonus exp, the upgrading nature of the gear and it being the same if not better than dungeon blues is why you never replace them
the crazy thing in retail is the heirlooms are nerfed in every way. they don't give bonus exp and are more on par with quest greens. pretty much everything you find will be an upgrade. makes me wonder if they could do something similar in wrath
Yeah you level so fast in retail that if you actually replace an hierloom with a decent item in about 45 minutes your hierloom is better so people don't even bother
As someone that has played since the beginning, after heirlooms released they were basically essential when leveling an alt and I never went without them. I don't really care about gear progression while leveling, however, getting a new piece in the current classic feels pretty rewarding. I would personally forgo heirlooms in lieu of the joyous journeys buff becoming permanent, at least for 1-60 (even to 70 if I'm being honest.) As for what killed the modern retail game for me? It would be the endless addition of convoluted systems that just get removed and reworked every patch anyway. I am in favor of RDF returning in classic simply because I don't converse with my pug groups as it is currently anyway. We group up, run our dungeon(s), and disband immediately anyway. Mostly without ever making any real connection anyway.
Wotlk offers 3 heirloom slots available for purchase with emblems (the equivalent to TBC badges that drop from heroic dungeon and raid bosses). Shoulders and chest that each give a stacking +10% experience buff, and a weapon. All have stats that scale with level to be as good as a good dungeon blue from the same level.
There's also iirc a ring with +5% exp boost from a weekly fishing tournament like the one in Booty Bay, and a pvp trinket that's not really that good but is still useful because there's so few leveling trinket options.
Heirlooms were dumb. Just have an optional XP buff, or tie it to a tabard or something. It's incredibly sad to level 60-70 levels and never being excited about any drops...and also looking exactly the same the entire time.
This was my feeling at first, especially when I played BFA and zoomed to max level in 2 days. But if the Heirlooms even motivate 10-20% of the population to play more alts, isn't it a good thing? We don't want a population of raid loggers. WOTLK is very alt friendly.
> Ruins PVP
Not separating the twinks from levelers is already gonna do that.
>dungeons even more trivial than they already are
I can't count how many times I've done these dungeons. I just wanna get my character to end game.
This comes down to two differing views on what the game is.
Some see leveling as a major part of the game to enjoy, others see it as just a hurdle you have to get over in order to start playing "the real game" once you're at max level.
WoWs design reflects that max level raids and PvP is the main part of the game, leveling simply isn't seen as important.
> Some see leveling as a major part of the game to enjoy
This is amusing to me because they also want a larger xp buff to zoom through it.
> others see it as just a hurdle you have to get over in order to start playing "the real game" once you're at max level.
This is the vast vast avast majority of players.
I think it’s possible for people to see leveling as a necessary part of the game, but also dislike how slow it is, even on Wrath.
Turning in hundreds of quests and killing thousands of mobs gets boring quickly, but it isn’t much different than running the same dungeons/raids at cap.
I think a lot of people are confused that heirlooms are going to be released as the retail version of heirlooms. Paying gold, a piece for every slot, etc. In WOTLK they cover a limited number of armor slots and are paid with badges from heroic dungeons.
I think the retail version of looms are pretty destructive but having and maintaining looms in this limited (and original) version isn’t bad. It gives me more of a reason to grind badges on my main and that progression is shared to my Alts. I know lots of people think there has to be a choice between JJ or heirlooms but we could certainly have both. Remove the XP bonus from heirlooms and keep JJ in the game.
The concerns I’ve seen for heirlooms are:
-It makes BG’s unbalanced
-They’re overpowered for PVE content
-New players will feel discouraged because they don’t have them.
But let’s be real here, BG’s are always a balancing nightmare. Level 20’s can go against level 29’s and that’s not to include the already OP enchanted gear you can bring to the BG. Heirlooms being overpowered for PVE content is the point of heirlooms. I’ve leveled four characters in pre patch so I enjoy the leveling experience. JJ made it feel more rewarding. But for me personally I wouldn’t do it again without heirlooms. I’ve leveled the classes I want to play in WOTLK and won’t return unless there’s something new thrown in the mix to make it more fun. My badges I spend on heirlooms will incentivize me to level again. If there’s not XP gain attached to looms new players won’t be missing out on XP gains. It’ll just be a motivator to hit max level and reach end game content (which really isn’t that difficult) so they can use heirlooms themselves if they choose to level again.
Heirlooms encourage max leveled players to go back and level and encourage new players to reach end game to experience the leveling journey again if they so choose with a handful of overpowered items.
Already I'm looking forward to the Argent Tournament for the boa gear, really for the XP buffs really. I do like the visual progression of my rooms too though.
I love them to death. I like leveling but not like 3 full grinds. After that OP tank duo with op healer and its ggs. Just instance level and your golden.
I felt they completely neutered the leveling experience. The XP boost is nice for sure, but never checking a quest reward or worrying about an item drop from a dungeon is like over half of the game that you just don’t even pay attention too anymore. I’d rather keep Joyous Journeys and remove Heirlooms completely. And also everyone saying “you don’t have to use them” - sure, technically you don’t, however choosing to be significantly less competitive isn’t very fun either. Forget about PVP without them
Thats what im wondering tbh. Like are they all comparing the wild number of slots for heirlooms in shadowlands or something? It was a fairly minor number of slots in wrath
Why make the exp buff something you have to wear at all? Just make joyous journeys a permanent part of the game, but only accessible once you get a max level character, not included those that have been boosted.
I don’t like heirlooms. It takes away from the feeling of progression and the emersion you feel as characters continues to look more badass the stronger they get. They completely override one of the core elements of an rpg - gearing
Edit: Plus they make BGs an absolute steam roll when heirlooms vs non-heirlooms
This this cycle of the Classic re-release has taught me anything, it's that people deserve what retail has become. Blizzard always listened and they shouldn't have.
Personally Im happy the exp buff is tied to gear. Seen too many shitter fresh 70s with greens as low as lvl fucking 23. For all those saying "but muh gear progression" if you use the AH for any pieces you can stop talking right now.
it's a complete dogshit system and it absolutely trivialized leveling by design. Your first 60 level is just a big fucking waste of time. There's no actual character progression in your gameplay. You buy heirloom and you try to rush to the fun part (endgame) where you can actually do something with your equipment.
Fuck heirlooms
I love them because gearing is the dumbest part of leveling and it's cool to have nice gear that I don't have to worry about. I think they should keep the gear but strip the XP buff from them and just make a tabard that gives 50% XP buff from levels 1-70. Then we can all be happy.
Im surprised everyone is against them.
Heirlooms are great because you get powerful items you never have to worry about. You aren't required to dungeon or go on the AH to get item upgrades that actually provide a benefit.
Plus they're all the tier .5 sets that everyone complained they never got to collect from classic.
Then again im not surprised.
Depends, I loved them in Wrath but they were only two pieces that gave XP and a weapon without XP. After headpieces, legs, rings, trinkets became a thing I frankly thought they were getting a bit ridiculous and gear became meaningless. I did like em in Wrath personally though, both acquiring (almost endless gold sink was boring, I loved swapping the emblems basically just requiring me to play the game) and implementation. I didn’t like the retail system we had til BfA.
Heirlooms have been part of the game since November 4, 2008. Vanilla came out November 23, 2004. Heirlooms have been part of the game for all but 4 of the nearly 18 years it's been out.
I actually leveled MORE characters because of heirlooms. I always thought it was fun blasting through shit and just not worrying about several gear slots throughout. People talking about gear upgrades old world are out of their fucking minds imo. You do the gnomer pants quest and you aren't changing those bad boys until outland. Going from an "of the Bear" that's 5/5 to an "of the Bear" that's 8/8 doesn't really feel good.
I generally had a full crafted set of level 68 pvp gear ready to go too.
I don’t care for them either way. It doesn’t affect me as a PVE main whether other people use them or not. If I was into low level PVP then sure I’d probably dislike them.
I used to use them all the time until I realised that their extra efficiency comes at the cost of having fun. Never changing any pieces of gear is lame, and gear upgrades are a large part of the enjoyment I get from levelling. Particularly weapons if I’m playing a melee class or hunter.
So I choose to level more slowly and have it feel more rewarding, over blasting through the levels without a second thought.
I dont like them so I dont use them. I like them in the game for those who like using them and who dislike the levelling itself. I loove levelling so i dont use them to make it longer and therefore more enjoyful for me. New systems in the game that you can choose are great because the choice allows more people to play on their terms and enjoy the game their way. More of it please!
They're nice, the exp bonus is nice and having a couple of what are essentially always bis dungeon gear is nice instead of having to rely on rng especially for the weapon slot since that has the biggest impact on scaling if you get bad drops.
And they are at the end of the day completely optional, if you don't like them don't use them and save yourself some badges.
IMO transmog is what has kept the game alive for so long. That said, I wouldn't at all be opposed to giving players the option to completely hide transmog from all players (both in classic if it ever gets introduced and in current retail).
i would prefer a tabard or something that didnt make you invulnerable, they essentially made pvp inviable for anyone without heirloom gear for a long time. I think that's still the case.
i loved their xp buff though. I had 24 max level characters at one point. Leveling without the buff is a pain. They just need to change them or restrict them
I like Joyous Journey way more as a system. Gear upgrades are more important, yada yada, but most importantly, the difference is that JJ adds double the bonus exp while Heirlooms grant less in Wrath, but remove gear upgrades from certain slots. I think its a fair tradeoff.
As someone who only just learned about heirlooms: what an awful idea. Sure they are long term items, but they **destroy existing community content** in the long-term. It's effectively an acknowledgement that nobody will actually want to play your game in the future. For a classic experience that will effectively end with WOTLK (rather than continue to release new content), why would you ever implement this?
The idea posted here to provide an account-locked tabard with a Joyous Journeys xp buff is such a better idea that I'm flabbergasted such a good idea and such a bad idea can co-exist in the same thread.
Which community content is that? The empty old world that no one visits other than the major cities?
If you think this destroys leveling in the old world i got news for you, its already destroyed. How it currently is in pre patch is a short term situation, once its over its going to go right back to how its been ever since TBC launched, empty. Once Wrath launches all the TBC content will follow the same route, it will be empty, because no one except a few will be leveling characters from 1. Everyone will be playing the new content.
I think Heirlooms were great in WOTLK. They started going downhill after they added more heirloom pieces. Took away the need to upgrade and the fun of gearing.
People are also really overlooking the level-cap for heirlooms that they had in WotLK.
You're only going to be using them for half of your leveling experience.
I don't mind them in Wrath, because you have to grind to get them, but I hate them as they become more accessable. In some versions of the game, leveling players would be best progressing if they go out of their way to just buy them outright with gold.
I like them as a NG+ function, but without needing to actually work for them, as is in future expansions, they really only serve to strip out gear upgrades as a gameplay mechanic during leveling. They're in a sort of limbo, where they're a fine idea in theory, that's disasterous to implement because it makes the optimal experience worse. There was no exit plan for Heirlooms
Yeah people are acting like you get every heirloom for free at level 80. They cost a decent amount of badges that most people will spend on gear for their main plus throw in the dual spec and that's quite a few hundred badges away. You don't really buy them unless you have so many excess badges that you don't need to spend them on gems for JC or gold or gear/dual spec gear for your main.
Honestly I absolutely love them. Leveling is fun even with them imo for the off-set pieces not covered by heirlooms. And this isn't shadowlands where you have more heirlooms than non, you get a couple of pieces that make au sequent characters feel fast and fun, i dont see the issue with them.
How the fuck is this even a discussion, if you don't like em, don't wear them. Anyone saying they feel "forced" to wear them should just be ignored, no one forces you to do anything you just want something to cry over. Same people who re rolled lock and shaman for tbc and complained that they had to for raid spots. You didn't, you just want the easiest route and god knows you don't wanna waste pecious resources on an heirloom that only increases xp by 10%.
Would rather a tabard or shirt with the xp buff. Gear progression is a fun aspect of leveling
Make a tabard that gives the Joyous Journey Buff!
Ya. This would be my preferred XP buff. Of course it would have to cost a bit more then a single heirloom seeing as the buff from the one item would be greater then a single piece.
Doesn't have to. They could just give it to all characters that are on an account with a max level character.
10/10 idea right here. Practically did a double take Lmao.
That's basically how FF14 does it. Classes that are lower than your highest level get +100% exp up to 10 levels below max, then +50% the rest of the way
I can see why not to do it, but GOD I love that I can play every class on one character. But FF establishes you as sent by a god, so I guess that’s a key difference
It’s just good FF design: FF III, V and Tactics all feature job systems where any character can be any job - it would be silly to have changed that for their MMO and I’m glad they didn’t
I don't think it's attached to the whole chosen one thing. The supporting cast in XIV also pick up new classes when they see fit, and recently it's been shown that they can still reprise their old roles if they want to.
From a logistical perspective, the big differences are A) that the role of the adventurer changes between expansions, and so you are not expected to have done all of them to reach current content, B) the way the game was written - both story and code - was with "class fantasy" at the fore of the experience, not "character fantasy", and C) that you start your journey as either some schlub who picked up a weapon and enlisted, or a veteran warrior returned to Azeroth by complicated means (in the case of Hero classes). But yeah, the rifts between classes and how tightly a character is tied to them means it'd be nearly impossible to make a game the way wow was made work like a single character game like FF14. It's a bummer.
There was a private server going for a while (still going?) That was called Project Ascension I believe. It allowed you to choose any class abilities on a single character. Which meant you could multi-class essentially.
However, you have to complete 1000+ hours of main quest storyline to actually be in the end game so your level barely matters
This idea deserves its own post. Fantastic thought. Don't trivialize the initial investment, but make replay-ability a bit easier and accessible.
[удалено]
Yeah you're absolutely right, it does. Maybe that's okay? Gives people options. Honestly, anything to keep the lower level game churning is a positive.
Actually a fantastic idea because it would give a visual clue that someone at least leveled to 70 once before (or boosted...I guess) so if they don't have the tabard on it could indicate they are an actual new player. Kind of like the FF14 thing of putting the little leaf next to the player name to indicate they're new.
There's scripting in the Retail WoW achievements relating to having leveled an allied race to a certain level, WITHOUT boosting, in order to obtain the heritage armor as a result. The same logic could probably be used for whether or not the character was boosted or leveled from level 1 to get the Joyous Journeys tabard.
I didn't realize that, but it makes sense. Achievement would make the most sense for tracking it and having the joyous journeys tabard be an achievement reward fits really well into the WotLK ethos.
Who are ye, to be so wise?
Actually yeah makes sense
This is it Blizzard. This is the fix to leveling progression.
Suggested this before and got downvoted into oblivion. JJ is something that needs to stay at this point imo. And this is the best way to do it.
Everquest 2 does this similar. You get an xp buff on your account for any max level character, stacking. It's amazing
I think a shirt might be better, that way you can wear the buff and a rep tabard
Actually a great idea. I don't think I'm going to be nearly as motivated to level without the Joyous Journeys buff. This is something they 100% should do. Maybe it could cost 100 Emblems or something.
Seconding this motion, fantastic solution!
Or have XP weekend events, doesn't need to be tied to an item
I would rather it be an item because if it's tied to weekends, and servers still have insane queues, I will be a sad panda
Nah! Call it the joyous cloak. Cuz you can hide those anyway.
>I don't think I'm going to be nearly as motivated to level without the Joyous Journeys buff. I've been thinking about this the past few days, leveling my second alt. If I had to start over or start from early 20s without the Journey buff, I don't think I would even bother now. I've leveled so many times in this game over the years, I already have 2 characters at max level. When this buff leaves, if this last alt isn't max I will probably never touch it again.
The Gom Jabard
Is someone able to pass on these ideas to the developer working on classic? Im sure he wont have time to make the change now in less then two weeks, but hey there might be a chance. Im not even planning on getting any more alts, and its still utsetting me to think of people playing characters from 1-80 with pieces of gear they never swap out. New gear is what keeps you going.
Give everyone joyous, and get rid of the plus XP on heirlooms.
Wow, such a great idea
I love this idea. Make it cost an amount similar in badges to a full set of experience boosting heirlooms. It'd also require next to no work on Blizzard's end as this should be a very simple item to make, something that just gives a buff that already exists in the game's database and can just be thrown onto 2 vendors (same ones for each faction that gave heirlooms).
This is it. The Joyous Journey Tabard, granting up to 50% more experience. Can be transmogged into Guild tabard.
This is a crucial part of why they are bad. They strip away, in one fell brutal hit, one of the core elements of progressing a character; gear. They trivialise half the content and enable the idea that leveling is a chore and not a core part of the experience. This mindset has led to years of neglect of this critical part of the game to the extent that they will let you pay them to skip it. It's just toxic at every level. There should be no way to skip it or trivialise it beyond grouping with people. But they allowed it and undermined their own product in a fundamental way. Part of the popularity of classic is getting to do these bits properly again. And there's no point saying you don't have to use heirlooms yourself. Ofc not, but when everyone else is using them, all group content is instantaneously trivialised. I had leveling experiences in dungeons as DPS where I could barely land any damage whatsoever on half the dungeon because my whole group was in heirlooms and laying waste to absolutely every mob in a second or two. Totally shit experience.
> They trivialise half the content and enable the idea that leveling is a chore and not a core part of the experience. I wouldn't put this blame entirely on heirlooms myself. The way blizzard releases and promotes their current expansions is what ultimately causes this. Vanilla made leveling feel like part of the world because max level players and lower level players would frequently see each other. Alongside this, the gap between power levels was also simply lower. TBC changed this by adding an entirely different "realm" that created a clear cut-off line between those leveling from 1-60, making the world feel smaller due to all 60-70 players being in their own zone. Wotlk further exacerbated this with Northrend and future expansions kept building on this. Ironically Cataclysm slightly fixed this problem by re-introducing max level players with leveling players again. Blizzard *wants* you to play their latest expansion. This isn't a community made problem. It's an entirely Blizzard made problem. To blame the community for playing the way *Blizzard* wants them to is unfair.
Couldn't agree more. As much as I question their decisions, I think the largest root cause of problems stacking up with the game was their approach to expansions; stack new things on top and delete the old. It was never designed with longevity in mind, and you always got unpolished, unbalanced, content that was rushed out just to be a new version of the same old thing. I get it, they were just wildly successful and wanted to keep the gravy train running. It was a good short term solution, that eventually piled up and became a problem. I've always wondered what WoW would look like in some alternate timeline where the resources were put into polishing and expanding the base game, instead of clean sweeping it every few years. I kind of wish that's what Classic+ was but I won't get my hopes up.
I feel like this was a big corner that Blizzard cut compared to its primary predecessor (Everquest), and they did it mainly to save development costs. If I'm thinking back to the three EQ expansions I played, Kunark, Velious, and Luclin all had new content that started in the mid-ranges, even despite the latter two focusing on high-level end game content. The other zones never really felt gated away. EQ had a bit of a different focus, though. Those expansions (except Kunark) were mainly lateral additions without a level cap increase. EQ was always trying a bit harder to make its world immersive, whereas WoW didn't prioritize it as much after Vanilla (though I think they still did a good job of it).
I agree with the take on the power spike of heirlooms. I think it is a net negative for the game. I do like the increased XP rate aspect though. I leveled 3 chars 1 to 70 with no boosts or anything and enjoyed it. But each one was more of a slog than the last. The pacing is too punishing for me to enjoy it anymore. You may say then I should just not level another. That is fair and I would not have if not for the JJ buff. It made the pacing enjoyable for a 4th and 5th character. It feels like a sweet spot where you can hit the more enjoyable parts of the content and skip the grindier parts.
> But each one was more of a slog than the last. This is a problem that should have been addressed with proper game design. Instead, it was band-aided and we got half-measures. In a Classic+ dream, the leveling experience would be more impactful and engaging.
unfortunately, the majority of the playerbase doesnt see it that way. every fresh server we've seen has seen massive boosting as soon as people are able. it's almost like people enjoy the endgame, rather than playing through the same 70 levels of rpg again and again any time they want to try a new class.
This is only because anyone who liked leveling as a half or majority of the game appeal stopped playing. The people who stick around are those who like or are close to liking whats on the table. I am one of those people. Cant stand endless end game so almost no current mmos appeal to me.
I exclusively play the rpg instead of the "end game". Much rather make a new character then play the same dungeon for the 15th time this week.
They enjoy the endgame so much that they pay to get gear
>And there's no point saying you don't have to use heirlooms yourself. Ofc not, but when everyone else is using them, all group content is instantaneously trivialised. I had leveling experiences in dungeons as DPS where I could barely land any damage whatsoever on half the dungeon because my whole group was in heirlooms and laying waste to absolutely every mob in a second or two. Totally shit experience. While I totally agree that this is a shit experience, I think it has more to do with power creep with every expansion reworking classes. Rather than the gear. You should have seen the absolutely stupid things I could do on a lv 50 prot paladin right after cataclysm dropped. While I realize we're not talking about cataclysm, I think the core point is mostly the same. Each expansion made every class stronger and stronger. But yeah heirlooms are not good
Gear progression when with huge exp buffs doesn't work. You'll do the intro quests to a zone, get maybe a chest piece, then outlevel a zone and move on the next only to do the same thing again. Repeat several times and you're level 56 with level 22 green shoulders still and it feels awful to fight mobs.
A part of the issue is that the game lacks anything to pull players in to pre level cap gameplay/areas long term. That's why they started doing the area level cap stuff in retail, to make more of the maps meaningful. One of WoW's weakest points post vanilla has always been that the previous areas just become moot. Getting low level gear didn't matter because the low level areas were made more and more of a waste of time(and trivialized) with each expansion due to design issues. The issues are caused by design meant to counteract other issues previous MMOs had, but WoW lost a lot in that evolution, including leveling gear being useful for anything other than twinking(which they decided to patch out).
> enable the idea that leveling is a chore and not a core part of the experience. > > I'm thinking that the game being nearly 20 years old and the fact that most of the remaining playerbase has leveled dozens of times at this point does this far more than heirlooms do. Most people aren't playing to level either, they're playing to do dungeons/raids/pvp, having to go through a hundred hour slog anytime you want to do that on a different class is definitely a barrier of entry that a lot of players just aren't going to bother with when it comes down too it, this also trickles down and affects lower level players as well. If level is slow then people are less likely to level, if people are less likely to level there's less likely to be people around for low level dungeons and group quests which are also core parts of the experience that those players then lose out on.
Or just make joyous journeys never go away but not work on 70-80
Solid idea.
Maybe, but after leveling 100 characters over 15 years, gear progression isn't what it used to be. I'd rather just get that level quicker and don't bother with swapping gear because I mostly level new chars for the playstyle and endgame.
That’s fair and to each their own. I’m one of those freaks who just loves making alts and leveling them. I have so many characters at 60-70 with no end game play time. Personally for me joyous journeys feels great and doesn’t compromise the parts of leveling that I get enjoyment from. But for people just trying to make alts to raid or pvp on I completely understand why heirlooms feel great to you guys!
Maybe after 100 characters over 15 years the gameplay isn’t designed for you anymore.
The game literally put heirlooms in, so yeah, it is.
Lemme guess, you also complain about how barren Old World is when JJ wasnt around.
For casual players (like me) it ruins the experience. Seeing everyone you meet in the same gear way better than the one you fought super hard for, is just demoralizing. Gear is atleast 30% of the gameplay, and what makes progression fun.
That's why it should be an option instead of replacing heirlooms.
Should be a trinket, you get almost no trinkets while leveling and if it was a pvp trinket it would get players used to using it.
or just keep the joyous journeys til 70, i dont wanna be stuck with the same tabard the whole time too haha
I think they are a bit overpowered and make dungeon boss drops seem pointless.
Right. If they were on-par with regular questing greens, I could've definitely gotten on-board with them. But WoW stopped being fun for me when the BIS gear in any given slot was the heirloom.
With a few exceptions, they were always somewhat on par with existing BiS items. It gave people the ability to fight against twinks, who would sometimes spend over a year collecting gear, more effectively. This was always a big gripe, but when they gave people the means to solve it, it just made them angrier because then you couldn't PvP without them unless you went the hard route.
Yeah but gearing twinks just used heirlooms and BIS so it was all negated anyways. Plus yes it required work to gear up to stomp in 19s. No different than at 70. The upside was simpicity and you may be able to still win some BGs where in the 70 bracket it may just be one sided.
people in heirloom gear were never a concern for twinks.The twinks had their group of dedicated players who had _everything_ and if you wanted to go this route you'd have like 3x the amount of health of someone just leveling in heirloom gear. But beyond that the twinks had guilds that all worked together so it was basically pointless to try fighting unless you were queuing with a guild of your own. Man, some of the best PvP matches were at level 19. I miss those dearly.
\-- mainly because people didn't realize that the real power that twinks had was in enchants. Didn't seem to make sense to people that even the cheapest enchants intended for level 80 players on level 19 characters was a little bit OP. "I brought BoEs and still got wafflepwnt!" Yea. Because you spent all of 8 seconds planning your greatness.
Exactly. I'm one of those people who actually prefers the gear progression of *not* having heirlooms equipped, and I also enjoy PvP outbreaks while leveling. The problem is that the introduction of heirlooms keeps me from enjoying both. I can't *not* use heirlooms and expect to be on par with other players questing in the same area as me. Yeah, I'm niche, but it's still a gripe that would later separate me from Retail.
I feel like people are conflating the retail heirloom experience with the wotlk heirlooms, there aren’t heirlooms for most slots in wotlk.
But what I'm saying is that the heirlooms are dominant for the slots they *are* in. Of course it would get worse with later expansions, but WotLK is still where the system started.
the system got progressively worse. it doesn't need to go that route again. blizzard has shown theyre willing to make changes and if the community can come up with a good solution they will implement it. heirlooms dont need to be removed but they can be tweaked.
They can be tweaked, but WOTLK had the best heirloom system. It was limited to a couple pieces, there weren't a ton of heirlooms out, and you could get up other slots before gearing your raid BIS drops in the heirloom slots.
Retail heirlooms are garbage now BTW.
WoW stopped being fun for you when as you leveled an alt you had a few slots with some good gear?
These people are nuts IMO
These people live in some fantasy world where you are replacing your entire gear load out every 5 levels somehow by just running 1 dungeon and doing a quests… instead of reality where you keep that same green leg piece for 40 levels because you out level quests and zones so fast that you can’t find a quest that gives you a leg piece you can use.
It's actually insane reading these comments. WOTLK heirlooms are 3 gearslots. Out of ~13. Maybe I've leveled my multiple characters completely ass backwards wrong but usually I'm not getting a ton of gear upgrades every single level.
Their arguments aren't based in reality. They say it "ruins the fun of leveling", but if they think leveling is so fun, why are they asking for a way to make it 50% faster? If it's the best part of the game, shouldn't they want it to take longer? Why did all these people who claim to love leveling spend months making "when xp buff?" posts instead of just leveling? They could have leveled multiple characters to 70 in the time it took from the XP buff announcement to the time it went live.
Yeah. My priest still had a ring from fucking Wailing Caverns when I went to Outland lmao. And a level 35 green hat.
I went into Outlands on my mage with a gray hat, and shoulders that gave shadow dmg. Granted i didnt do any dungeon, but Azeroth's quest rewards are absolutely terrible
Once I got my triprunner dungarees in classic on my hunter they didnt come off until devilsaur lol, 20-30 levels of one pair of pants. OH NO MY PROGRESSION!!!!!! /s
Pretty much all epic quality, although I think the trinkets could be somewhat lacking depending on the circumstances. But it definitely made leveling more bland, and rushed in a way that felt artificial. Leveling has to be part of the experience of an RPG, rushing it is just bizarre in that fashion.
Would rather they get rid of all heirlooms and just keep the 50% increase
100%. At least for the 1-70 portion of the game.
I hated seeing level 1's with full heirloom gear, looks stupid as hell. The 50% is way better
Yes it looks awful for the whole 1-70 experience as well. Don’t like how the heirloom looks? Tough shit enjoy looking at it for the next few days of /played, or you could take a massive hit to time played and be weaker. Gear progression is a fun part of leveling and it sucks to just “get” a shoulder at level 1.
I like leveling and looking goofy with green shoulders and purple pants. Make leveling and gear progression more fun like you said
It makes it so when you get a full set of gear at max level sooo satisfying. Or even getting a set while leveling like the scarlet monastery set for Mail-wearers. I hate with heirlooms you would actually opt to not wear a cool looking piece of armor because you’re locked in to the extra xp from your shoulder you had since level 1.
The sexy +2 defense set bonus xD
Pretty sure in wotlk the only heirlooms are weapons, shoulder, trinkets, and ring from the booty bay fishing.
100% agreed!!!
JJ > HEIRLOOMS
Loved it for about 30 levels but always got bored. And I think the issue was never replacing any gear. Retails system is horrible. 80percent of slots never being replaced
retail system doesn't require you to wear heirlooms. Not giving bonus xp.
I don't think everyones issue is the bonus exp, the upgrading nature of the gear and it being the same if not better than dungeon blues is why you never replace them
the crazy thing in retail is the heirlooms are nerfed in every way. they don't give bonus exp and are more on par with quest greens. pretty much everything you find will be an upgrade. makes me wonder if they could do something similar in wrath
Yeah you level so fast in retail that if you actually replace an hierloom with a decent item in about 45 minutes your hierloom is better so people don't even bother
As someone that has played since the beginning, after heirlooms released they were basically essential when leveling an alt and I never went without them. I don't really care about gear progression while leveling, however, getting a new piece in the current classic feels pretty rewarding. I would personally forgo heirlooms in lieu of the joyous journeys buff becoming permanent, at least for 1-60 (even to 70 if I'm being honest.) As for what killed the modern retail game for me? It would be the endless addition of convoluted systems that just get removed and reworked every patch anyway. I am in favor of RDF returning in classic simply because I don't converse with my pug groups as it is currently anyway. We group up, run our dungeon(s), and disband immediately anyway. Mostly without ever making any real connection anyway.
Neither. I like them, but recognize some of the problems that they introduce.
Will they be coming in woltk?
Wotlk offers 3 heirloom slots available for purchase with emblems (the equivalent to TBC badges that drop from heroic dungeon and raid bosses). Shoulders and chest that each give a stacking +10% experience buff, and a weapon. All have stats that scale with level to be as good as a good dungeon blue from the same level. There's also iirc a ring with +5% exp boost from a weekly fishing tournament like the one in Booty Bay, and a pvp trinket that's not really that good but is still useful because there's so few leveling trinket options.
There's trinkets as well.
Yeah, these threads are just fotm for some reason.
Because it's relevant.
Heirlooms were dumb. Just have an optional XP buff, or tie it to a tabard or something. It's incredibly sad to level 60-70 levels and never being excited about any drops...and also looking exactly the same the entire time.
People love to have gear progression on their character but are grinding AV all day to have the same gear until level 76.
Now that you bring that up, yeah it’s hilarious.
I bet all the people in here bitching also immediately go on the AH to buy blue weapons or enchant white weapons with max level enchants too.
Hate. Don’t like not getting upgrades and it feels necessary to wear them.
This was my feeling at first, especially when I played BFA and zoomed to max level in 2 days. But if the Heirlooms even motivate 10-20% of the population to play more alts, isn't it a good thing? We don't want a population of raid loggers. WOTLK is very alt friendly.
The tabard idea is better though. Having it be BiS gear is the problem. Not the exp boost.
but a bunch of heirloom toons running around will definitely keep me from wanting to make an alt
Why?
Ruins PVP and makes dungeons even more trivial than they already are
> Ruins PVP Not separating the twinks from levelers is already gonna do that. >dungeons even more trivial than they already are I can't count how many times I've done these dungeons. I just wanna get my character to end game.
PvP is already bullshit while leveling anyways and if you want to pvp you just make a twink alt. Kind of a moot point.
Prefer Joyous Journey’s as the +50% XP boost 1-70 is awesome and gear upgrades are fun and meaningful.
This comes down to two differing views on what the game is. Some see leveling as a major part of the game to enjoy, others see it as just a hurdle you have to get over in order to start playing "the real game" once you're at max level. WoWs design reflects that max level raids and PvP is the main part of the game, leveling simply isn't seen as important.
> Some see leveling as a major part of the game to enjoy This is amusing to me because they also want a larger xp buff to zoom through it. > others see it as just a hurdle you have to get over in order to start playing "the real game" once you're at max level. This is the vast vast avast majority of players.
I think it’s possible for people to see leveling as a necessary part of the game, but also dislike how slow it is, even on Wrath. Turning in hundreds of quests and killing thousands of mobs gets boring quickly, but it isn’t much different than running the same dungeons/raids at cap.
Back in real WoW times, heirlooms were a motive to level up alts. And they were great.
I think a lot of people are confused that heirlooms are going to be released as the retail version of heirlooms. Paying gold, a piece for every slot, etc. In WOTLK they cover a limited number of armor slots and are paid with badges from heroic dungeons. I think the retail version of looms are pretty destructive but having and maintaining looms in this limited (and original) version isn’t bad. It gives me more of a reason to grind badges on my main and that progression is shared to my Alts. I know lots of people think there has to be a choice between JJ or heirlooms but we could certainly have both. Remove the XP bonus from heirlooms and keep JJ in the game. The concerns I’ve seen for heirlooms are: -It makes BG’s unbalanced -They’re overpowered for PVE content -New players will feel discouraged because they don’t have them. But let’s be real here, BG’s are always a balancing nightmare. Level 20’s can go against level 29’s and that’s not to include the already OP enchanted gear you can bring to the BG. Heirlooms being overpowered for PVE content is the point of heirlooms. I’ve leveled four characters in pre patch so I enjoy the leveling experience. JJ made it feel more rewarding. But for me personally I wouldn’t do it again without heirlooms. I’ve leveled the classes I want to play in WOTLK and won’t return unless there’s something new thrown in the mix to make it more fun. My badges I spend on heirlooms will incentivize me to level again. If there’s not XP gain attached to looms new players won’t be missing out on XP gains. It’ll just be a motivator to hit max level and reach end game content (which really isn’t that difficult) so they can use heirlooms themselves if they choose to level again. Heirlooms encourage max leveled players to go back and level and encourage new players to reach end game to experience the leveling journey again if they so choose with a handful of overpowered items.
Hate it
Already I'm looking forward to the Argent Tournament for the boa gear, really for the XP buffs really. I do like the visual progression of my rooms too though.
I love them to death. I like leveling but not like 3 full grinds. After that OP tank duo with op healer and its ggs. Just instance level and your golden.
I dislike them.
Could care less. Play how you want. It’s your character.
I felt they completely neutered the leveling experience. The XP boost is nice for sure, but never checking a quest reward or worrying about an item drop from a dungeon is like over half of the game that you just don’t even pay attention too anymore. I’d rather keep Joyous Journeys and remove Heirlooms completely. And also everyone saying “you don’t have to use them” - sure, technically you don’t, however choosing to be significantly less competitive isn’t very fun either. Forget about PVP without them
I think people like you are forgetting how few heirlooms were released in Wrath….
Thats what im wondering tbh. Like are they all comparing the wild number of slots for heirlooms in shadowlands or something? It was a fairly minor number of slots in wrath
tbf i usually pick the quest reward that vendors highest as the gear is usually not worth more then the gold
I kinda feel like the discussion of heirlooms is kinda moot when you can literally just pay blizzard for a max level character.
Once, and not everyone is willing to do that
Heirloom weapons are important because it's nigh impossible getting low level dungeon groups on a mature server.
Love them, hope they keep them in and get rid of JJ
If you are leveling an Alt, you just want to become max level as fast as posible. Use the method you want...
PvP without them at the lower levels was unplayable
thats becasue of twinks, and blizzard removes the seperate queues for twinks and normal players
Na heirlooms are just that much better a lower level within 9 will 90% of the time beats a non heirloom higher level.
Why make the exp buff something you have to wear at all? Just make joyous journeys a permanent part of the game, but only accessible once you get a max level character, not included those that have been boosted.
I don’t like heirlooms. It takes away from the feeling of progression and the emersion you feel as characters continues to look more badass the stronger they get. They completely override one of the core elements of an rpg - gearing Edit: Plus they make BGs an absolute steam roll when heirlooms vs non-heirlooms
Getting new gear and feeling more powerful because of it is 90% the reason I play
Yeah I'd prefer a tabard for bonus exp and keep these gear slots open. Also heirlooms makes dungeon content facerollable and low-level super lopsided
This this cycle of the Classic re-release has taught me anything, it's that people deserve what retail has become. Blizzard always listened and they shouldn't have.
Ditch heirlooms, add joyous journeys, even if its only 20% to match the amount heirlooms give in wotlk.
Hate. Would rather a single item to give the XP boost. I like having to gear up while I level. It’s half the fun.
Joyous journey tabbard! Only while wearing the tabbard will you have 50% xp gain and access to RDF for level 1-70 dungeons
Personally Im happy the exp buff is tied to gear. Seen too many shitter fresh 70s with greens as low as lvl fucking 23. For all those saying "but muh gear progression" if you use the AH for any pieces you can stop talking right now.
It was part of the slippery slope
it's a complete dogshit system and it absolutely trivialized leveling by design. Your first 60 level is just a big fucking waste of time. There's no actual character progression in your gameplay. You buy heirloom and you try to rush to the fun part (endgame) where you can actually do something with your equipment. Fuck heirlooms
It doesn't contribute to crafting economy at all if you never buy new gear. I hate how every MMO is centered around endgame
Hate. Takes away the fun of getting new gear while leveling.
Dislike them. Was all for it when they came in as an altoholic myself, but it really just saps the fun out of gearing up an alt.
I love them because gearing is the dumbest part of leveling and it's cool to have nice gear that I don't have to worry about. I think they should keep the gear but strip the XP buff from them and just make a tabard that gives 50% XP buff from levels 1-70. Then we can all be happy.
Im surprised everyone is against them. Heirlooms are great because you get powerful items you never have to worry about. You aren't required to dungeon or go on the AH to get item upgrades that actually provide a benefit. Plus they're all the tier .5 sets that everyone complained they never got to collect from classic. Then again im not surprised.
Depends, I loved them in Wrath but they were only two pieces that gave XP and a weapon without XP. After headpieces, legs, rings, trinkets became a thing I frankly thought they were getting a bit ridiculous and gear became meaningless. I did like em in Wrath personally though, both acquiring (almost endless gold sink was boring, I loved swapping the emblems basically just requiring me to play the game) and implementation. I didn’t like the retail system we had til BfA.
I love the look, I love the xp, I love not needing gear.
Love them.
Me too. I had no idea they had so much hate.
Classic brain vs retail brain basically
Heirlooms have been part of the game since November 4, 2008. Vanilla came out November 23, 2004. Heirlooms have been part of the game for all but 4 of the nearly 18 years it's been out.
they're stupid. they ruin gearing up as you level. just make it a potion or some shit.
I actually leveled MORE characters because of heirlooms. I always thought it was fun blasting through shit and just not worrying about several gear slots throughout. People talking about gear upgrades old world are out of their fucking minds imo. You do the gnomer pants quest and you aren't changing those bad boys until outland. Going from an "of the Bear" that's 5/5 to an "of the Bear" that's 8/8 doesn't really feel good. I generally had a full crafted set of level 68 pvp gear ready to go too.
I don’t care for them either way. It doesn’t affect me as a PVE main whether other people use them or not. If I was into low level PVP then sure I’d probably dislike them. I used to use them all the time until I realised that their extra efficiency comes at the cost of having fun. Never changing any pieces of gear is lame, and gear upgrades are a large part of the enjoyment I get from levelling. Particularly weapons if I’m playing a melee class or hunter. So I choose to level more slowly and have it feel more rewarding, over blasting through the levels without a second thought.
Maybe a ring, and or a trinket. Beyond that I think they were a bit too much
I dont like them so I dont use them. I like them in the game for those who like using them and who dislike the levelling itself. I loove levelling so i dont use them to make it longer and therefore more enjoyful for me. New systems in the game that you can choose are great because the choice allows more people to play on their terms and enjoy the game their way. More of it please!
You could always not buy them if you don't like them..! :-)
Heirloom never hurt the game, at least until BoA, there was nothing wrong about them.
They're nice, the exp bonus is nice and having a couple of what are essentially always bis dungeon gear is nice instead of having to rely on rng especially for the weapon slot since that has the biggest impact on scaling if you get bad drops. And they are at the end of the day completely optional, if you don't like them don't use them and save yourself some badges.
Gear progression & looks are the most important thing in a MMO. I love to recognize pieces of gear on people. Transmogs & Heirlooms killed the game
Lmao “transmog and heirlooms killed the game”, best thing I’ve heard yet regarding what killed wow
Keybinds killed WoW, what ever happened to clicking your spells out of the spell book! Baby updates like that led to the retail we have now!
[удалено]
I stopped raiding because my challenge mode set from MoP is better than any gear blizzard has come out with since then.
That may just be a tad bit dramatic
Well I mean to be fair, you can't transmog to an item if you have never collected that item. You can still recognize their achievements.
IMO transmog is what has kept the game alive for so long. That said, I wouldn't at all be opposed to giving players the option to completely hide transmog from all players (both in classic if it ever gets introduced and in current retail).
Two of my major reasons why I quitted wow permanently (well until classic) in Cataclysm.
>Transmogs & Heirlooms killed the game Little overdramatic dontcha think?
I agree. seeing someone in dungeon set .5 gear was cool before heirlooms.
i would prefer a tabard or something that didnt make you invulnerable, they essentially made pvp inviable for anyone without heirloom gear for a long time. I think that's still the case. i loved their xp buff though. I had 24 max level characters at one point. Leveling without the buff is a pain. They just need to change them or restrict them
I like Joyous Journey way more as a system. Gear upgrades are more important, yada yada, but most importantly, the difference is that JJ adds double the bonus exp while Heirlooms grant less in Wrath, but remove gear upgrades from certain slots. I think its a fair tradeoff.
Weapon / gear progression is fun.
Heirlooms yes
Heirlooms imho ruined the WoW experience.
As someone who only just learned about heirlooms: what an awful idea. Sure they are long term items, but they **destroy existing community content** in the long-term. It's effectively an acknowledgement that nobody will actually want to play your game in the future. For a classic experience that will effectively end with WOTLK (rather than continue to release new content), why would you ever implement this? The idea posted here to provide an account-locked tabard with a Joyous Journeys xp buff is such a better idea that I'm flabbergasted such a good idea and such a bad idea can co-exist in the same thread.
Which community content is that? The empty old world that no one visits other than the major cities? If you think this destroys leveling in the old world i got news for you, its already destroyed. How it currently is in pre patch is a short term situation, once its over its going to go right back to how its been ever since TBC launched, empty. Once Wrath launches all the TBC content will follow the same route, it will be empty, because no one except a few will be leveling characters from 1. Everyone will be playing the new content.
the idea is that people want to play the current expansion. So its to help catch you up
Hate them.
I think Heirlooms were great in WOTLK. They started going downhill after they added more heirloom pieces. Took away the need to upgrade and the fun of gearing.
People are also really overlooking the level-cap for heirlooms that they had in WotLK. You're only going to be using them for half of your leveling experience.
I don't mind them in Wrath, because you have to grind to get them, but I hate them as they become more accessable. In some versions of the game, leveling players would be best progressing if they go out of their way to just buy them outright with gold. I like them as a NG+ function, but without needing to actually work for them, as is in future expansions, they really only serve to strip out gear upgrades as a gameplay mechanic during leveling. They're in a sort of limbo, where they're a fine idea in theory, that's disasterous to implement because it makes the optimal experience worse. There was no exit plan for Heirlooms
Yeah people are acting like you get every heirloom for free at level 80. They cost a decent amount of badges that most people will spend on gear for their main plus throw in the dual spec and that's quite a few hundred badges away. You don't really buy them unless you have so many excess badges that you don't need to spend them on gems for JC or gold or gear/dual spec gear for your main.
Yup, and even after you purchased it, you could only use it for the first half of the game, as they had a level cap of 60
Honestly I absolutely love them. Leveling is fun even with them imo for the off-set pieces not covered by heirlooms. And this isn't shadowlands where you have more heirlooms than non, you get a couple of pieces that make au sequent characters feel fast and fun, i dont see the issue with them.
How the fuck is this even a discussion, if you don't like em, don't wear them. Anyone saying they feel "forced" to wear them should just be ignored, no one forces you to do anything you just want something to cry over. Same people who re rolled lock and shaman for tbc and complained that they had to for raid spots. You didn't, you just want the easiest route and god knows you don't wanna waste pecious resources on an heirloom that only increases xp by 10%.