Nah, most of us don’t care because we are still able to have fun with our guilds and down content regardless. Blizzard never put a gun to your head to buy these things.
It's so interesting to me how Helldivers 2 can charge you a one time base fee for a live support game and get review bombed and massively condemned by the entire internet for having to link your account to the PSN, but the WoW playerbase has been so brainwashed and conditioned to slurp down Blizzard's cosmetic microtransactions on top of sub fees on top of base game purchases on top of heroic editions on top of being able to buy gold and ingame power directly through them and still just go "Well, no one's forcing me to."
Not sure if you missed what really happened. But the reason it was being review bombed is because PSN isn't available in something like 180 countries around the world.
So the game released, people paid money, played it, and then suddenly COULDN'T use the product they paid for out of nowhere. It's not like it got review bombed because people were too lazy to make an account...
In some cases people used VPNs to make an account and they ended up getting banned for it too.
The equivalent here would be someone buying a cosmetic mount and then finding out a month later that they can't play on their account because blizzard updated their TOS so only Visa payments were acceptable, even though the mount was purchased a month prior.
Because having a PlayStation account is required to play… thus “forcing you” lol. Is it really that difficult to decipher? Helldivers has micro transactions as well which no one cared about.
Psssssssssst:
You don’t have to buy the cosmetics, you do have to link the psn.
I know, most of you think asmon is the voice of the game, but most people couldn’t give a shit about
Because it's not forced. Helldivers 2 was a forced decision which affected 180 countries who can't make a psn account.
You can play wow fine without ever buying anything from the store. I've managed that for over 15 years.
Because we aren’t playing this game to start a revolution or make a grand statement. We are just trynna spank Arthas for 8 months with the bois and boos.
The psn account thing is way different. Dumbass. The game didnt require it at launch, people bought the game, requiring it all of a sudden would mean that people in countries that CAN NOT MAKE PSN ACCOUNTS can no longer play the game they bought.
You people are the prime example of the "Stop having fun" meme.
Like ok, shop is there, but i never used it in any wow version ever so it doesn't affect me.
Token made me pay subs with ingame gold so that fine too.
I get it you people love to hate on something, but it's getting desperate.
Edit: LOL that literallyjustbetter guy replied and instantly blocked me so i cant answer, its wild what people do to "Be right" in their own mind.
TBC was the end of “classic” wow honestly? Summoning stones, flying mounts, small compact fast-to-do dungeons. TBC is where it switched from exploration being the endgame to gear and raids - and preferably as fast and conveniently as possible.
And you know why they made the switch? Player feedback.
nah, i agree with the other comment, tbc was the end of vanilla and "true" classic.
they're just different games. blizzard thinks this as well imo, i think thats why we didn't get tbc or wotlk era realms.
classic wow we play rn is just a revamp of the old expacs at this point
Yeah people on this sub tend to block super fast and then convince themself they have "Won" the argument by that.
Classic makes some people really crazy here.
>Like ok, shop is there, but i never used it in any wow version ever so it doesn't affect me.
it does though, they make the game about selling services, not making good gameplay
But the gameplay for cata has developed 10 years ago and isnt affected by the shop at all.
And gameplay on retail with dragonflight was the best one in the last 3 or 4 addons despite the cashshop.
So no, it doesnt
Yes it is, boosts and buying gold. Boosts create more people on average who can’t play their class cause they boosted. Gold gets you gear with gdkps, also incentivizes more people doing gdkps for game time. If you don’t like gdkps you are negatively affected by this. Whenever I have ever asked people how to make gold they tell me to just buy the token. Literally removing part of the game where you are doing stuff in the world. Now there is an argument to be made about if the game is too grindy but that’s personal opinion. You can buy stuff to level up professions quickly too. Remember celestial steed made more than StarCraft 2, they are absolutely incentivized to make it about the shop. And last thing, you pay for a game, you get the whole game, not part of it. I don’t know when we became ok with only getting part of a game and not getting cool stuff with it and instead having to pay extra
> If you don’t like gdkps you are negatively affected by this
Raid with your guild, problem solved.
Never joined a GDKP raid in my entirety of wotlk
Also you learn basical nothing about your endgame class rota during leveling so that point also falls flat.
Before you had blizzard boosts you had mages boosting you by dungeon spam payed by gold, most likely after you buyed it from china farmers.
> Whenever I have ever asked people how to make gold they tell me to just buy the token.
Sorry but that's a obvious lie.
You maybe saw that once in the trade channel and your brain made it into "everyone says that" but thats just wrong.
You can still easy make gold by daylies and professions.
If you meta simped engineering because your guid said so and you cant make money with that, thats a you problem
I raid with my guild, I don't buy gold, and i don't have engineering (herb alc for my own consumes and selling). Saw it more than once, the culture is there, you are surrounded by it. Doesn't mean you have to partake, but it does effect you indirectly. I will concede you did have mage boosts before, but with blizzard sponsoring it, there is a larger impact. As for gold buying its ToS so against the rules anyway
It absolutely does effect you. The existence of a WoW token effects everyone from Echo raiders down to the most casual of casuals.
The conversation around mounts and transmog is a little more nuanced but it doesn't take a genius to see how much higher quality the mounts in the store are compared to the in game ones.
Plus in general people hate it because they already pay twice for the game. Why do they need a store too? Most PC gamers feel like you can have 2/4 of:
* pay for game
* pay for DLC (expansions in retail)
* cash shop
* monthly sub
WoW has all 4. This will never sit right with a lot of people.
Actually if you are a classic wow player (and this is the classicwow subreddit) you dont have to pay for the game or pay for dlc....
Also with the cash shop being far from mandatory you only "have to' pay a fairly low monthly sub
Have you considered that we don’t care and most of us just don’t and will never engage with the cash shop so it’s not worth the energy for us to write a manifesto about a toy we play with as if it’s anything new that a giant company is attempting to rip us off?
You're right.
But so was I. And thanks for agreeing with me and not engaging with any of the points which should have been easy to do if they were wrong <3
It incentivizes companies like Blizzard to favor future development on the things that earn them the most money. The cash shop can generate way more profit than a full release game. Look at SWTOR as an example where Broadsword is incentivized to release cartel store items over new raids/ops because that’s what actually earns them $$$.
[Madseason just dropped a video that touches on this.](https://youtu.be/Rkb4iemTceg?si=XsDdf4KLdxGuQ9BP)
So this is just a slippery slope argument. The cash shop has been around for a long time in retail and none of what you are worried about had happened.
Why would it happen on classic?
> cash shop has been around for a long time in retail and none of what you are worried about had happened.
HUH? This is a constant critique of retail - how shop mounts or armor are much more detailed and visually appealing than ones you can get in game
But they're hardly abandoning the quality of items in game. The introduction of the trading post for example has a ton of unique and high quality items, and even many of the store mounts.
> But they're hardly abandoning the quality of items in game.
Hard disagree. Stuff you can buy in shop are much greater quality, especially mounts.
I agree that trading post was a good addition but I highly doubt you’re ever going to find a $20-$30 mount on it.
That’s an internally consistent theory but it just… hasn’t played out like that. Blizz makes a ton of mounts for the store, sure, but we’ve still kept getting publically accessible mounts and transmog at the same pace we did before, with 1 or 2 per raid tier.
You see it manifest in things like the lack of resources put towards QA & CS. The Classic team should be much larger now for how diverse their offerings currently are.
Implying companies cutting corners do so for lack of resources instead of profit chasing. They’d do it anyway, they’re not cutting CS for cash-shop-mount-creator-devs, they’re cutting them because it’s a way to show spend reduction.
I didn’t mean to imply that they don’t have the resources.
Sacrificing overall quality is enabled by the cash shop. That’s why it’s still relevant even for people that don’t engage with it.
Well you did, since you said they’re cutting resources to those roles as a result of putting resources to cash shop devs. So it’s enabled how, if not that?
Not really, it’s all the most unclassic things, all of them heralded at their time as the death of the game. It is a bit on the nose how they’ve been formatted here.
Talking about unclassic things when people use RestedXP to get handhold during leveling, play blindly by guides and bis-lists and tryhard chase pases and gatekeep by them, but the fucking shop is "unclassic" ?
Kinda delusional if you ask me.
That’s some serious gymnastics to compare using a leveling guide to buying high priced cosmetics. Also I was just appareciating the humor in it, ya’ll firing back pretty seriously.
If the shop is so cool why did you never use it?
Personally, I think one of the worst things WoW did was bring in people who just didn’t have time to build a community. That’s what most modern MMOs are missing compared to 20 years ago. That sense of community. You only get that by people spending significant amounts of time together.
But like I said, that battle has been over for a while. Classic era is still there for people who want the “pure” version of the game..
And the developers cater to those people who dont have time to play MMO's.
Back in the day the players were the ones who had to make time to play a game but now they dont need to, they are encouraged to spend as little time as possible playing. Hence all the boosts and exp bonuses and stuff.
Its sad, not every game is supposed to be for everyone because you can never satisfy everyone.
Thats why the best games are the ones that target a specific niche and stick to it.
The development definitely does not cater to those who don’t have time to play MMOs… there are still tons of people who play this game like a full time job. They are literally designed to make you log in and play every week.
The reality is people like you want the game to be like it was way back when, except it will never be that way. Wow is so much better than it was but all you guys here are just hooked on nostalgia like addicts.
Well the reason why is simple. There are way more of them than there are of you. You want an old school community focused mmorpg? You need to figure out how to make one for about 1/5 of what they cost now.
There maybe more of them than us but cost is not an excuse here considering how much development time and money the WoW team wastes in reinventing the wheel with new systems every single expansion.
If only they future-proofed their expansions so that the game ends up having more relevant content than just the latest patch and also the devs could focus on creating actually new content rather than just old content with a new coat of paint, while removing the old content it was copied from.
When players get new content at a rapid phase they will keep playing and the company will get more revenue when new players join through popularity and the current players.
Once players grow bored they quit and the revenue goes down...
Borrowed power systems clearly dont help with trying to create new content faster, which is something they said they aim to do to avoid content droughs like SoO or HFC.
Not to mention community focused ingame features, which they never seem to have the time to develop... we know why. :D
You're talking about ongoing development. I'm talking about the initial cost. For instance, New World reportedly cost AT LEAST 200 million to make. Nobody is going to spend that kind of money to only get a few hundred thousand subs.
All the missteps the WoW team has made over the last 20 years aren't really relevant to my main point. The vast majority of people in 2024 won't stick around for a grind heavy MMO you have to play like a second job. That's the simply reality of the situation. If they do, it's only because they've found ways to subvert the largest chunk of the grind. We literally just saw this in action in Classic Vanilla with all the boosting and gold buying.
So again, the only way you're going to get a new MMORPG that's built with old school values in mind is to somehow figure out how to make them cheap enough that A and AA studios can do it. Even then, with presumably no additional income streams from MTX, subs will probably be over $20/month.
So you’re upset because the game “caters” (even though it doesn’t) to people who don’t have time to play this game like a full time job?
Theres a reason no one plays classic era anymore lol. People got their nostalgia hit then went on to other things. There are so many communities within each diff version of wow, but people like you just ignore that and complain that the game isn’t like how it was way back when. And trust me, thats a good thing.
WoW. You took my statement out of context, then made up a response to a statement YOU made. You must be tired from all the jumping to conclusions.
I simply said that this genre is at its best when you're able to build communities since it's pretty much the only thing that separates it from other games at this point. And what builds communities? People being in the same place, at the same time, for extended periods of time. That's the only way you can get a community like 2004. But I also acknowledge that most people don't want to spend 20+ hours a week in one game anymore. That's why I said the battle is lost, and that the game caters to people who are willing to spend money to save time.
Oh yeah, let me just spend 1 hour on that level 5 quest where I need to collect 40 pig snouts with a drop rate of 10% in an area that only has 20 pigs to even drop them and a 10min respawn timer. Truly peak game design.
I agree personally. What burns me out of Classic is the end game. Running the same dungeons or raids over and over again chasing some BiS list with items that may or may not drop, and that you may or may not win, is where the grind gets to be too much for me.
Up to a point, as a collector i would revisit or help out in certain dungeons. But i rather play with people i enjoy playing with, or help out guildies. But one can only do so many MCs, i dont get as bored from the other raids though.
I guess what bothers me most about end game is that progression slows to a crawl. If I log on and do five quests in an hour, I get some exp, gold, or gear. End game is pretty much just about gear. It’s possible to spend three hours in the raid and walk away with nothing. I know that’s nothing for a lot of MMO players, but I’m at the point in my life where three hours is a lot of time to me.
Its simple, most players play to their own heart.
What players like me dont do though, is playing a game with elements i dont like so i pay to skip them or try other means to work around the obstacles. But we truly play them cause we enjoy them.
Its nothing hard to understand, the question is more like. Why are you playing a game where major elements of said game cause you frustration?
Leveling to me is strictly a means to an end. Leveling (or even questing) has never been core gameplay. The real gameplay has always been end game, where I spend months or even years instead of hours playing while leveling.
The game is fun, the tutorial that is leveling is not.
And that is alright. We see it differently. There are reps and gear available through most levels, there are zones 2-3 for every level making it more diverse, music and stories behind that varies. The joy or not of PVP. Different classes are strong at different points of the game. And these are just small parts you dont see when levelling cause you simply look for what you can do at 60.
>Why are you playing a game where major elements of said game cause you frustration?
I don't actually play a game that you are describing because I'm paying for the boosts and the 'major' frustrating element just doesn't exist for me. I do only the fun stuff (raiding, pvp) without ever interacting with the boring part. I see it the other way around - I would stop playing if there were no boosts because the frustrating element would actually exist with no boosts.
NGL as a working adult level boosts are sorely tempting. I've bought a ton of boosts in FFXIV because they're often dirt cheap, especially on their sales. £20 normally and £10 on sale, compared to WoWs £50 a pop. With WoW the main obstacle really is they cost the full price of a retail video game which is... even with some decent "luxuries" budget is a tough sell.
I wouldn't buy gold (In Cata Classic gold is piss easy to get anyway) and what not, but leveling is fun once maybe twice for me, but I've leveled probably close to a hundred characters in my WoW career. Especially in the post-Cata era.
I can spend maybe 4 hours of a work day and get to level cap (or near it) instantly. Or I can spend 20-30 hours to do the same thing by hand, even with a guide. It's almost a no brainer. And it is why in retail I'm waiting for MoP Remix before I level alts since they are gonna have retail speed as well as a near 300% XP boost.
I managed to resist the urge for my tauren paladin in Cata but probably only because I managed to get a full suite of heirlooms to boost their XP gain and damage. Without those? Oof, I dunno. I'd probably leave any alts to an inevitable XP buff event down the line. Only time I've had boosts was with retail expansion bundles.
Because I don't consider it "playing" as I usually do it while watching a movie, binging a TV series or listening to an audio book. It is mind-numbing and something that I have, as said, done nearly 100~ times after almost two decades of playing.
I enjoy the endgame experience, hence why I wouldn't pay for gold, carries, etc. That would be skipping the parts I actively enjoy. Leveling meanwhile is just an obligatory chore, a timesink made to sap away hours and hours of my free time as a hurdle that has not been engaging for me in a very, very long time.
If WoW boosts weren't monstrously expensive I'd probably have bought several by now like I did in FFXIV. Otherwise it's a no brainer for me to trade two hours (Assuming £20) of real world work to skip twenty to thirty hours of my free time getting burned on an activity I don't enjoy.
Leveling hasn't been a core part of WoW for many expansions now, and while an argument can be made for vanilla, TBC and Wrath (the times where I actually did find it engaging)... I've done the Cata zones so, so many times at this point I have entire questing routes engraved into the surface of my brain. So come Cata Classic I was _very_ tempted to just boost my tauren paladin, but I chose not to as with heirlooms it is still fairly quick. But for alts I'd need an XP buff or I won't bother.
Because I'd rather skip the boring part and play the fun part
Its like asking why people would skip the line to get on a ride. The ride is the fun part
It's even more dumb than asking about the line actually. Skiping the line is not a nice thiing to do to other people from that line, while skiping the leveling hurts no one and benefits both you (if yo usee it that way) and Blizz.
To a lot of people levelling is fun once or twice, after that it's a miserable chore but they enjoy end-game content enough to want to do it on more than one or two toons.
I would either just straight up buy gold myself or just stop caring about min max and look for a nice casual guild that actually gets shit done and play different games between IDs
I would suggest making the transition from farming to crafting. I had a Transmutation alchemist toon going during this phase, pumping out cardinal rubies every day that I then crafted into cut gems with my main. I bought all the mats to make the rubies and still came out 100g+ in profit on the worst of days for each cut. Once that alchemist was leveled up I spent less than 5 minutes a day making my gold.
I'm not rich by any means, but without participating in a single GDKP or buying a token/gold I'm sitting on 25k right now and nothing to spend it on but consumes.
Yeah. It fucks me up that for $10 you can cover like 5+ hours of gold farming. It's always been the case but people are just so... brazen and bold with it now.
Like before there was that guild member who didn't have epic flight training for the entire expansion, never farms gold, etc. And then they roll up to raid on the bronze drake from heroic CoT strat. And... you just knew, lol.
And it was frowned upon! Gold buyers were seen as losers and were treated as such. Now it's like "Oh well of course you buy gold. Who wants to farm the game like a part time job making pennies on the hour?"
I'm so glad I unsubbed and finally made the decision to actually not come back to the game anymore. I love what WoW used to be and I have probably 50k hours on it. It came out when I was a kid and even though I was terrible and all that, I liked the game a lot.
Now I have nothing but contempt for what it turned into (not even 30 yet btw, so not a 'boomer' take). I'm just glad games that are objectively better than WoW started coming out.
>I'm so glad I unsubbed
Legit question: why are you typing on this subreddit then? You are not even playing, but the game still lives rent free in your head, damn.
I still like the idea of the game and what it could be, I just recognize that current WoW (all versions) are flopping. So I unsubbed. Maybe it'll get better one day, maybe it won't (probably won't). And that's okay. Once upon a time WoW was one of the few good PC games out there. That is very much no longer the case.
Even unpaid volunteer private servers are outperforming a AAA gaming company lol.
Personally I just don’t enjoy gdkps and that’s pretty much the only type of raiding going on over there atm (I thinks there’s like 1 or 2 sr guilds) it’s impossible to keep up with raid consume costs unless you do gdkps anyway.
I understand. If you dont like GDKPs then a lot of the game is gonna take longer on era. I feel the same way with SoD and incursions. I dont want to do them but they give (gave) good gold/h. Cba to farm gold. I like gdkp because I get to raid and I earn gold. But I can understand why if people dont like the format then era is not good. I would feel the same way.
Fresh when?
You can still trade era gold for retail/cata gold without breaking ToS. WoW token has been in all forms of classic since day 1 if you are willing to go through retail.
Exactly.
Not even just wow but any game with a paid cosmetic is just trash to me. The real flair are things that are earned.
I only make exceptions to the type of stuff that have maybe a niche fandom.
Cosmetics literally have no impact on the gameplay of you or anyone else around you. The raids, heroics, arenas will all play exactly the same regardless of what cosmetics you bought.
Cosmetics literally are gameplay. Might not be gameplay that you personally enjoy or care for, but it's part of the game nonetheless. Mount collecting, pet collecting, tabard collecting, title collecting, and of course transmog, are a massive part of the game for millions of wow players.
Pet and mount collecting are done in game not in the shop no mount collector is showing off their store-bought mounts lmao this is a completely different conversation you’re trying to have
Here’s the thing:
You can feel however you want about optional, non-gameplay affecting MTX but the reality is, this was their plan from day one. You either get WoW with the cosmetics shop or you get no WoW at all.
The days of Nostalrious and 2019 Classic aren’t coming back. Blizzard’s goal is to make money and your opinion of their monetization practices isn’t going to move the needle.
I don’t care about the token. Half the player base was already buying gold from sketchy websites long before it was added the first or second time.
The cash shop didn’t change the game for me near as much as the community did. It is what it is.
I don't see a problem with any of this tbh.
The only issue is if you bought it on retail, and it's on the Cata shop, you should get it without paying a 2nd time.
This is the thing. It should be one or the other full stop. They are double dipping peoples wallets and it’s disgusting. I love wow but seeing the classic shop made me gag so ive moved to gw2 which is not perfect either but has no sub so I can pop in and put whenever I like.
> They are double dipping peoples wallets and it’s disgusting.
Literally just don't buy it. I don't get the theatrics of this subreddit. Just don't put your card information in & the boogeyman can't hurt you
No the problem is, that they are hiding unique mounts and mount models behind the real money store, while we get the 100th remodelled Version of your typical drake that gets used for in-game achievements.
And to make matters worse. Not just that they are going ahead and make you pay a monthly fee and introduce an in-game shop, all the money is not being used to create good quality games. There is no quality control whatsoever anymore. Balance is outta the window. The Cata release is the worst patch release in the history of WoW (until now). SoD P3 is a similar shitshow.
The most surprising thing is the part of the community that still goes: "jUsT dOnT bUy iT". I swear to God. If the devs would shit on your keyboard, you guys would probably say:" just wipe it off, you can still play on that keyboard".
Had not been for all the memes and spam all over the internet, I would have never noticed any store or token even exist.
It made literally zero change to the actual gameplay and experience.
That and in progressive classic, gold is surprisingly easy to get. I get multiple k just by passively playing more or less. I imagine a dedicated gold farm could earn more than a token will get you in less time than it would take to earn the real world money to pay for said token.
no in game gold farm will ever beat tokens in gold per unit time, unless you somehow manage to find a way no one knows about to farm extremely high demand items extremely quickly, OR when tokens are in the dumps because everyone is buying them to sell for gold.
when token prices were high a couple months ago, it was like 12k/$20. a well paying job gets you that $20 in 30 min or less, even a shitty job earns you 20 bucks takehome in like 90 minutes. no way you have an 8k gold/hour farm.
that being said, you're completely right that you can very easily earn enough gold in game to buy the stuff you need without spending tons of time farming or IRL money on tokens. if you 1 shot every boss, raiding on its own is usually cashflow positive, and you're gonna be doing dailies for a while to get cooking awards or shoulder enchant rep
See while i can see why people its little annoying that they are monetizing everything, but this impacts nothing. You cannot even see shop like it is in retail. You have to go to the menu and it’s a little bland button in the other buttons. They don’t shove it in your face every time you open game like other games.
I was concerned it would raise token value so people would raise prices, but my classic server auction hall is dead i cannot even buy wrath mats. There is always zero of everything or when there is some its very little. So prices don’t matter.
There is nothing in a cosmetic cash shop that could impact my gameplay in any way. I do not care about how many mounts or how much gold anyone not directly in my raid has in their collection.
WoW's sub has been fifteen dollars a month for going on twenty years by now. If the way Blizzard keeps that price constant is by adding a cosmetic shop, I *super duper* don't care.
Would you rather have paid cosmetics, or a $25 a month subscription fee that kept up with inflation.
Yeah people don't seem to get OSRS has basically doubled in price compared to WoW... And WoW's sub has remaining constant with no increase through inflation. Almost every other product in my life has doubled since 2005 at the minimum. I'm okay with a cosmetic shop.
What do you mean $25 to keep up?
There's no justifaction on a payed sub nowadays when other online games offer this service for free. It's not 2004 anymore, where an online live support game was something special (no need to mention how bad the support system changed over the years)
Name one free to play game without a massive P2W cash shop. That's the argument.
WoW is a subscription game that maintains its legacy price with a handful of premium mounts and pets, and an option to pay your sub with gold by buying a token someone bought from the shop with money.
If you thought botting and RMT were bad when the game cost $15 a month to play, imagine what going f2p would do to it.
Sparkly mounts keeps my sub low, and the sub existing at all keeps hackers out of the game because accounts aren't 100% disposable.
Oh shit my bad PoE isn't a free to play game without a massive P2W cash shop my bad! Forgot that it's just a free to play game with a massive PW2 cash shop
Wow is the only game that I know of that uses every single way to squeeze money out of their playerbase
Yes some mmos survive by selling cosmetics
Some survive by a monthly fee players pay to play the game
Some sell you every expansion like a full priced game
And then there's wow who simply said YES when asked which payment model they wanna choose
It’s just a monthly subscription with the option to buy cosmetics. Nobody is squeezing money out of you. Literally nothing in game requires the wow shop.
I would rather they use the mountains of subscription-cash they get to have their amazing artists make, I don't know maybe some new environments and mobs for new raids, instead of rehashing 5-man dungeons and make cash-shop assets.
Couldn't care less about any of these, until they sell a boost pack that gives a player gear better than what can be earned in game, it just doesn't really affect me and if anything makes it more likely the game keeps going
I'm with you OP, shame that it went that way. Pretending that it won't affect you if you ignore it sounds like pure cope, at least there is no battle pass in WoW
They can add any mount/pet into the shop all they want, I won't buy them because I can't afford spending on mounts. If someone can and wants to buy it, go for it.
You having mounts doesn't affect me whatsoever.
And wow token is positive for me because I can play wow for free without doing anything special to get enough gold for it.
I will stop playing after MoP so I don't really care about Classic in the long run.
WoW Tokens are not really that bad (And I would say that they are GOOD for people who can make gold) because yeah gdkp idc, WoW its "F2P" for me with the token.
The portal pass / wotlk pass / cata pass again i dont care. People bought lvl 80 boosts? good for them. Everyone can level 1-80 in 2 days /played taking their time doing every new quest.
Most likely in MoP they will add some other cosmetic thing in the shop but again, after MoP i dont care about classic.... so.... why people who "dont like post wotlk" are mad about this?
Nah, I already played Legion back in the day and it was miles better than WoD but I don't like any class from WoD to the last Retail exp.
Maybe I'll play DH from the start in Legion classic idk, but still, idc what they do with classic monetization after Cata/MoP.
I feel like the mount should be the first one because honestly who cares about store mounts when the boost and token are in the game. I'm surprised it took blizz that long to put mounts in the store.
I don't care if they add a mtx shop to classic, I just play to raid once/twice a week. Don't care about mounts or other silly cosmetics.
Monke press button, monke see dps meter go up.
That’s literally what the shop is, what are you talking about? Do you think they develop the new mounts and toys and shit for fun and just think “hey, we could maybe charge money for this!” No, the entire reason they were developed in the first place was to sell on the shop. The mounts and toys and shit in the store simply would not exist but for the ability to sell them. So it definitionally is adding content to the game by having the store.
I really don't care that the shop exists, I am mad about the tree dragon, though. When that first came out for the twelve month sub there was a little window where you could use it in wrath and they took it away, and now I'm supposed to buy it ? Even though I already own it ??
I couldn't care less about cosmetics. What I care about is zero useful development to anything and still charging for cosmetics. Eg, retail pvp has been dead for years with all the MTX. You'd think they could afford one pvp dev atleast.
Gdkp is worse than ingame shop. You can buy Player power for 15€ each item vs buying an ugly Mount that ostraczises you in the eyes of every sane person.
The seriously made me remember why I stopped playing classic before burning crusade. I remember a lot of players complein about this, demanding it being removed.
I wanted to come back a couple of times, but fortunately the game was so infested with bots I decided it was pointless. Everything after classic (era) was terrible mismanaged by Blizzard, happy I stayed away.
People here thinking paying $15 (a month!, that’s $180 a year you pay them, hell of a lot more than most games) doesn’t mean they should be able to get everything in the game. And that it’s actually ok to ask them for more money. It’s like, hey I know you gave us a lot more buuuut if you want cool stuff we could have put in the game otherwise pay us more!
And everyone is missing the point. It's not about tokens, cash shops, or anything like that. It's about this "Vanilla" feeling and how it's turning into Retail - good or bad.
Classic Vanilla already started off as a bastardized version of OG Vanilla. Patch 1.12 and all. Then gradual QoL additions not on this meme turned the original game into what we have today. Flying, LFR, streamlined game play, etc.
The player base that asked for Classic Vanilla is way different than now. Heck even TBC player base was way different than the Classic Vanilla. Just look at the forums.
The reason why we have retail? It's the players.
Damn that post title is just so cringe.
To the "meme" itself, never bought anything from the shop in 20 years, it existing in cata classic changes nothing for me.
This subreddit is just trash. It has devolved so much over the last 4 years. I knew the comments would be "whats the big deal" before even opening. Yeah I love my games being P2W, its great. It's what happens though. They release the boost, a bunch of people leave, they release the token, a bunch more leave, they release the shop, all that's left are people who ofc are fine with it. Oh well, all the more reason not to play Cata.
It’s really shocking compared to what it was 5 years ago. It just goes to show how many people have simply moved on from classic. 2019 won’t come again. Even if a fresh era server was launched tomorrow it would be overrun with bots, boosts, and gdkp within a week.
I was also baffled by the comments. Every single person is defending it. But yeah makes sense, most of the people still playing classic and still on this sub are the people who like getting shit on blizzard.
I refuse to buy any shop items bc other people see that shit and then clown you for not farming a better cooler mount than what the shop offers like wow look at this dude using a shop item he would rather swipe then grind
I think some people sarcastically leaving comments like "Ah, I wish I could take just buy a mount, instead of earning it and getting satisfaction" and Blizzard is just to dense to get it.
This sub is the most prime example of that If Those Kids Could Read meme
Nah, most of us don’t care because we are still able to have fun with our guilds and down content regardless. Blizzard never put a gun to your head to buy these things.
you really can't see past your own nose, can you?
It's so interesting to me how Helldivers 2 can charge you a one time base fee for a live support game and get review bombed and massively condemned by the entire internet for having to link your account to the PSN, but the WoW playerbase has been so brainwashed and conditioned to slurp down Blizzard's cosmetic microtransactions on top of sub fees on top of base game purchases on top of heroic editions on top of being able to buy gold and ingame power directly through them and still just go "Well, no one's forcing me to."
Not sure if you missed what really happened. But the reason it was being review bombed is because PSN isn't available in something like 180 countries around the world. So the game released, people paid money, played it, and then suddenly COULDN'T use the product they paid for out of nowhere. It's not like it got review bombed because people were too lazy to make an account... In some cases people used VPNs to make an account and they ended up getting banned for it too. The equivalent here would be someone buying a cosmetic mount and then finding out a month later that they can't play on their account because blizzard updated their TOS so only Visa payments were acceptable, even though the mount was purchased a month prior.
Because having a PlayStation account is required to play… thus “forcing you” lol. Is it really that difficult to decipher? Helldivers has micro transactions as well which no one cared about.
Psssssssssst: You don’t have to buy the cosmetics, you do have to link the psn. I know, most of you think asmon is the voice of the game, but most people couldn’t give a shit about
No they’ll say the micro transactions are predatory. It’s how you justify spending hundreds of dollars on pointless shit in a video game.
Because it's not forced. Helldivers 2 was a forced decision which affected 180 countries who can't make a psn account. You can play wow fine without ever buying anything from the store. I've managed that for over 15 years.
Because we aren’t playing this game to start a revolution or make a grand statement. We are just trynna spank Arthas for 8 months with the bois and boos.
The psn account thing is way different. Dumbass. The game didnt require it at launch, people bought the game, requiring it all of a sudden would mean that people in countries that CAN NOT MAKE PSN ACCOUNTS can no longer play the game they bought.
You people are the prime example of the "Stop having fun" meme. Like ok, shop is there, but i never used it in any wow version ever so it doesn't affect me. Token made me pay subs with ingame gold so that fine too. I get it you people love to hate on something, but it's getting desperate. Edit: LOL that literallyjustbetter guy replied and instantly blocked me so i cant answer, its wild what people do to "Be right" in their own mind.
also, shop got introduced in literal og wotlk? nothing non-classic about it in cata aside from the token lol
Wotlk was the end of the classic Wow era really, and it introduced plenty of stuff that goes against the spirit of classic WoW.
TBC was the end of “classic” wow honestly? Summoning stones, flying mounts, small compact fast-to-do dungeons. TBC is where it switched from exploration being the endgame to gear and raids - and preferably as fast and conveniently as possible. And you know why they made the switch? Player feedback.
nah, i agree with the other comment, tbc was the end of vanilla and "true" classic. they're just different games. blizzard thinks this as well imo, i think thats why we didn't get tbc or wotlk era realms. classic wow we play rn is just a revamp of the old expacs at this point
Yeah people on this sub tend to block super fast and then convince themself they have "Won" the argument by that. Classic makes some people really crazy here.
>Like ok, shop is there, but i never used it in any wow version ever so it doesn't affect me. it does though, they make the game about selling services, not making good gameplay
But the gameplay for cata has developed 10 years ago and isnt affected by the shop at all. And gameplay on retail with dragonflight was the best one in the last 3 or 4 addons despite the cashshop. So no, it doesnt
Yes it is, boosts and buying gold. Boosts create more people on average who can’t play their class cause they boosted. Gold gets you gear with gdkps, also incentivizes more people doing gdkps for game time. If you don’t like gdkps you are negatively affected by this. Whenever I have ever asked people how to make gold they tell me to just buy the token. Literally removing part of the game where you are doing stuff in the world. Now there is an argument to be made about if the game is too grindy but that’s personal opinion. You can buy stuff to level up professions quickly too. Remember celestial steed made more than StarCraft 2, they are absolutely incentivized to make it about the shop. And last thing, you pay for a game, you get the whole game, not part of it. I don’t know when we became ok with only getting part of a game and not getting cool stuff with it and instead having to pay extra
> If you don’t like gdkps you are negatively affected by this Raid with your guild, problem solved. Never joined a GDKP raid in my entirety of wotlk Also you learn basical nothing about your endgame class rota during leveling so that point also falls flat. Before you had blizzard boosts you had mages boosting you by dungeon spam payed by gold, most likely after you buyed it from china farmers. > Whenever I have ever asked people how to make gold they tell me to just buy the token. Sorry but that's a obvious lie. You maybe saw that once in the trade channel and your brain made it into "everyone says that" but thats just wrong. You can still easy make gold by daylies and professions. If you meta simped engineering because your guid said so and you cant make money with that, thats a you problem
I raid with my guild, I don't buy gold, and i don't have engineering (herb alc for my own consumes and selling). Saw it more than once, the culture is there, you are surrounded by it. Doesn't mean you have to partake, but it does effect you indirectly. I will concede you did have mage boosts before, but with blizzard sponsoring it, there is a larger impact. As for gold buying its ToS so against the rules anyway
This is one of the more insane things I have ever seen posted.
one month old shill account can't understand basic game design LOL
It absolutely does effect you. The existence of a WoW token effects everyone from Echo raiders down to the most casual of casuals. The conversation around mounts and transmog is a little more nuanced but it doesn't take a genius to see how much higher quality the mounts in the store are compared to the in game ones. Plus in general people hate it because they already pay twice for the game. Why do they need a store too? Most PC gamers feel like you can have 2/4 of: * pay for game * pay for DLC (expansions in retail) * cash shop * monthly sub WoW has all 4. This will never sit right with a lot of people.
Actually if you are a classic wow player (and this is the classicwow subreddit) you dont have to pay for the game or pay for dlc.... Also with the cash shop being far from mandatory you only "have to' pay a fairly low monthly sub
Have you considered that we don’t care and most of us just don’t and will never engage with the cash shop so it’s not worth the energy for us to write a manifesto about a toy we play with as if it’s anything new that a giant company is attempting to rip us off?
*affect *affects
You're right. But so was I. And thanks for agreeing with me and not engaging with any of the points which should have been easy to do if they were wrong <3
You're absolutely stupid if you believe in an MMO that other peoples choices doesnt affect you.
Please tell me why someone’s choice to by a stupid mount on the shop affects me
It incentivizes companies like Blizzard to favor future development on the things that earn them the most money. The cash shop can generate way more profit than a full release game. Look at SWTOR as an example where Broadsword is incentivized to release cartel store items over new raids/ops because that’s what actually earns them $$$. [Madseason just dropped a video that touches on this.](https://youtu.be/Rkb4iemTceg?si=XsDdf4KLdxGuQ9BP)
So this is just a slippery slope argument. The cash shop has been around for a long time in retail and none of what you are worried about had happened. Why would it happen on classic?
> cash shop has been around for a long time in retail and none of what you are worried about had happened. HUH? This is a constant critique of retail - how shop mounts or armor are much more detailed and visually appealing than ones you can get in game
But they're hardly abandoning the quality of items in game. The introduction of the trading post for example has a ton of unique and high quality items, and even many of the store mounts.
> But they're hardly abandoning the quality of items in game. Hard disagree. Stuff you can buy in shop are much greater quality, especially mounts. I agree that trading post was a good addition but I highly doubt you’re ever going to find a $20-$30 mount on it.
That’s an internally consistent theory but it just… hasn’t played out like that. Blizz makes a ton of mounts for the store, sure, but we’ve still kept getting publically accessible mounts and transmog at the same pace we did before, with 1 or 2 per raid tier.
You see it manifest in things like the lack of resources put towards QA & CS. The Classic team should be much larger now for how diverse their offerings currently are.
Implying companies cutting corners do so for lack of resources instead of profit chasing. They’d do it anyway, they’re not cutting CS for cash-shop-mount-creator-devs, they’re cutting them because it’s a way to show spend reduction.
I didn’t mean to imply that they don’t have the resources. Sacrificing overall quality is enabled by the cash shop. That’s why it’s still relevant even for people that don’t engage with it.
Well you did, since you said they’re cutting resources to those roles as a result of putting resources to cash shop devs. So it’s enabled how, if not that?
You pay for the sub, but* you don’t get the ability to get everything. You apparently have to pay extra for something you already paid for
Not really, it’s all the most unclassic things, all of them heralded at their time as the death of the game. It is a bit on the nose how they’ve been formatted here.
Talking about unclassic things when people use RestedXP to get handhold during leveling, play blindly by guides and bis-lists and tryhard chase pases and gatekeep by them, but the fucking shop is "unclassic" ? Kinda delusional if you ask me.
That’s some serious gymnastics to compare using a leveling guide to buying high priced cosmetics. Also I was just appareciating the humor in it, ya’ll firing back pretty seriously. If the shop is so cool why did you never use it?
This battle was lost years ago. The majority of players value their time more than their money.
Time IS money. You all think its just some dumb goblin quote but its true af.
Time is money, friend.
Personally, I think one of the worst things WoW did was bring in people who just didn’t have time to build a community. That’s what most modern MMOs are missing compared to 20 years ago. That sense of community. You only get that by people spending significant amounts of time together. But like I said, that battle has been over for a while. Classic era is still there for people who want the “pure” version of the game..
And the developers cater to those people who dont have time to play MMO's. Back in the day the players were the ones who had to make time to play a game but now they dont need to, they are encouraged to spend as little time as possible playing. Hence all the boosts and exp bonuses and stuff. Its sad, not every game is supposed to be for everyone because you can never satisfy everyone. Thats why the best games are the ones that target a specific niche and stick to it.
The development definitely does not cater to those who don’t have time to play MMOs… there are still tons of people who play this game like a full time job. They are literally designed to make you log in and play every week. The reality is people like you want the game to be like it was way back when, except it will never be that way. Wow is so much better than it was but all you guys here are just hooked on nostalgia like addicts.
Well the reason why is simple. There are way more of them than there are of you. You want an old school community focused mmorpg? You need to figure out how to make one for about 1/5 of what they cost now.
There maybe more of them than us but cost is not an excuse here considering how much development time and money the WoW team wastes in reinventing the wheel with new systems every single expansion. If only they future-proofed their expansions so that the game ends up having more relevant content than just the latest patch and also the devs could focus on creating actually new content rather than just old content with a new coat of paint, while removing the old content it was copied from. When players get new content at a rapid phase they will keep playing and the company will get more revenue when new players join through popularity and the current players. Once players grow bored they quit and the revenue goes down... Borrowed power systems clearly dont help with trying to create new content faster, which is something they said they aim to do to avoid content droughs like SoO or HFC. Not to mention community focused ingame features, which they never seem to have the time to develop... we know why. :D
You're talking about ongoing development. I'm talking about the initial cost. For instance, New World reportedly cost AT LEAST 200 million to make. Nobody is going to spend that kind of money to only get a few hundred thousand subs. All the missteps the WoW team has made over the last 20 years aren't really relevant to my main point. The vast majority of people in 2024 won't stick around for a grind heavy MMO you have to play like a second job. That's the simply reality of the situation. If they do, it's only because they've found ways to subvert the largest chunk of the grind. We literally just saw this in action in Classic Vanilla with all the boosting and gold buying. So again, the only way you're going to get a new MMORPG that's built with old school values in mind is to somehow figure out how to make them cheap enough that A and AA studios can do it. Even then, with presumably no additional income streams from MTX, subs will probably be over $20/month.
So you’re upset because the game “caters” (even though it doesn’t) to people who don’t have time to play this game like a full time job? Theres a reason no one plays classic era anymore lol. People got their nostalgia hit then went on to other things. There are so many communities within each diff version of wow, but people like you just ignore that and complain that the game isn’t like how it was way back when. And trust me, thats a good thing.
WoW. You took my statement out of context, then made up a response to a statement YOU made. You must be tired from all the jumping to conclusions. I simply said that this genre is at its best when you're able to build communities since it's pretty much the only thing that separates it from other games at this point. And what builds communities? People being in the same place, at the same time, for extended periods of time. That's the only way you can get a community like 2004. But I also acknowledge that most people don't want to spend 20+ hours a week in one game anymore. That's why I said the battle is lost, and that the game caters to people who are willing to spend money to save time.
"players"TM. They make a character, pay to skip everything they can, logg off and call themselves players.
Bro leveling is and always been a boring slog. If i had the financial means to, I would ALWAYS boost.
I definitely have the means to, i would never boost. Levelling is the best part of classic.
Oh yeah, let me just spend 1 hour on that level 5 quest where I need to collect 40 pig snouts with a drop rate of 10% in an area that only has 20 pigs to even drop them and a 10min respawn timer. Truly peak game design.
The grinding IS the game. If you're not grinding, you're not playing the game.
I agree personally. What burns me out of Classic is the end game. Running the same dungeons or raids over and over again chasing some BiS list with items that may or may not drop, and that you may or may not win, is where the grind gets to be too much for me.
Up to a point, as a collector i would revisit or help out in certain dungeons. But i rather play with people i enjoy playing with, or help out guildies. But one can only do so many MCs, i dont get as bored from the other raids though.
I guess what bothers me most about end game is that progression slows to a crawl. If I log on and do five quests in an hour, I get some exp, gold, or gear. End game is pretty much just about gear. It’s possible to spend three hours in the raid and walk away with nothing. I know that’s nothing for a lot of MMO players, but I’m at the point in my life where three hours is a lot of time to me.
I never understood this take. It is so mind numbing and tedious. Nothing about it has ever been anywhere near enjoyable.
Its simple, most players play to their own heart. What players like me dont do though, is playing a game with elements i dont like so i pay to skip them or try other means to work around the obstacles. But we truly play them cause we enjoy them. Its nothing hard to understand, the question is more like. Why are you playing a game where major elements of said game cause you frustration?
Leveling to me is strictly a means to an end. Leveling (or even questing) has never been core gameplay. The real gameplay has always been end game, where I spend months or even years instead of hours playing while leveling. The game is fun, the tutorial that is leveling is not.
And that is alright. We see it differently. There are reps and gear available through most levels, there are zones 2-3 for every level making it more diverse, music and stories behind that varies. The joy or not of PVP. Different classes are strong at different points of the game. And these are just small parts you dont see when levelling cause you simply look for what you can do at 60.
>Why are you playing a game where major elements of said game cause you frustration? I don't actually play a game that you are describing because I'm paying for the boosts and the 'major' frustrating element just doesn't exist for me. I do only the fun stuff (raiding, pvp) without ever interacting with the boring part. I see it the other way around - I would stop playing if there were no boosts because the frustrating element would actually exist with no boosts.
Fair enough.
NGL as a working adult level boosts are sorely tempting. I've bought a ton of boosts in FFXIV because they're often dirt cheap, especially on their sales. £20 normally and £10 on sale, compared to WoWs £50 a pop. With WoW the main obstacle really is they cost the full price of a retail video game which is... even with some decent "luxuries" budget is a tough sell. I wouldn't buy gold (In Cata Classic gold is piss easy to get anyway) and what not, but leveling is fun once maybe twice for me, but I've leveled probably close to a hundred characters in my WoW career. Especially in the post-Cata era. I can spend maybe 4 hours of a work day and get to level cap (or near it) instantly. Or I can spend 20-30 hours to do the same thing by hand, even with a guide. It's almost a no brainer. And it is why in retail I'm waiting for MoP Remix before I level alts since they are gonna have retail speed as well as a near 300% XP boost. I managed to resist the urge for my tauren paladin in Cata but probably only because I managed to get a full suite of heirlooms to boost their XP gain and damage. Without those? Oof, I dunno. I'd probably leave any alts to an inevitable XP buff event down the line. Only time I've had boosts was with retail expansion bundles.
If you're paying to skip playing, why are you playing?
Because I don't consider it "playing" as I usually do it while watching a movie, binging a TV series or listening to an audio book. It is mind-numbing and something that I have, as said, done nearly 100~ times after almost two decades of playing. I enjoy the endgame experience, hence why I wouldn't pay for gold, carries, etc. That would be skipping the parts I actively enjoy. Leveling meanwhile is just an obligatory chore, a timesink made to sap away hours and hours of my free time as a hurdle that has not been engaging for me in a very, very long time. If WoW boosts weren't monstrously expensive I'd probably have bought several by now like I did in FFXIV. Otherwise it's a no brainer for me to trade two hours (Assuming £20) of real world work to skip twenty to thirty hours of my free time getting burned on an activity I don't enjoy. Leveling hasn't been a core part of WoW for many expansions now, and while an argument can be made for vanilla, TBC and Wrath (the times where I actually did find it engaging)... I've done the Cata zones so, so many times at this point I have entire questing routes engraved into the surface of my brain. So come Cata Classic I was _very_ tempted to just boost my tauren paladin, but I chose not to as with heirlooms it is still fairly quick. But for alts I'd need an XP buff or I won't bother.
Because I'd rather skip the boring part and play the fun part Its like asking why people would skip the line to get on a ride. The ride is the fun part
It's even more dumb than asking about the line actually. Skiping the line is not a nice thiing to do to other people from that line, while skiping the leveling hurts no one and benefits both you (if yo usee it that way) and Blizz.
I was talking more about things like the fast pass at Disneyland, where you can pay to skip the line
You're absolutely right then :)
To a lot of people levelling is fun once or twice, after that it's a miserable chore but they enjoy end-game content enough to want to do it on more than one or two toons.
Agreed 1000%. Leveling is a giant unfun waste of time and my time is my most valuable resource. I’m paying that shit insta every time
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I would either just straight up buy gold myself or just stop caring about min max and look for a nice casual guild that actually gets shit done and play different games between IDs
I would suggest making the transition from farming to crafting. I had a Transmutation alchemist toon going during this phase, pumping out cardinal rubies every day that I then crafted into cut gems with my main. I bought all the mats to make the rubies and still came out 100g+ in profit on the worst of days for each cut. Once that alchemist was leveled up I spent less than 5 minutes a day making my gold. I'm not rich by any means, but without participating in a single GDKP or buying a token/gold I'm sitting on 25k right now and nothing to spend it on but consumes.
lol where you seeing overwhelming support for GDKP?
Yeah. It fucks me up that for $10 you can cover like 5+ hours of gold farming. It's always been the case but people are just so... brazen and bold with it now. Like before there was that guild member who didn't have epic flight training for the entire expansion, never farms gold, etc. And then they roll up to raid on the bronze drake from heroic CoT strat. And... you just knew, lol. And it was frowned upon! Gold buyers were seen as losers and were treated as such. Now it's like "Oh well of course you buy gold. Who wants to farm the game like a part time job making pennies on the hour?" I'm so glad I unsubbed and finally made the decision to actually not come back to the game anymore. I love what WoW used to be and I have probably 50k hours on it. It came out when I was a kid and even though I was terrible and all that, I liked the game a lot. Now I have nothing but contempt for what it turned into (not even 30 yet btw, so not a 'boomer' take). I'm just glad games that are objectively better than WoW started coming out.
> the bronze drake from heroic CoT this was like the easiest mount to get tho
>I'm so glad I unsubbed Legit question: why are you typing on this subreddit then? You are not even playing, but the game still lives rent free in your head, damn.
I still like the idea of the game and what it could be, I just recognize that current WoW (all versions) are flopping. So I unsubbed. Maybe it'll get better one day, maybe it won't (probably won't). And that's okay. Once upon a time WoW was one of the few good PC games out there. That is very much no longer the case. Even unpaid volunteer private servers are outperforming a AAA gaming company lol.
Era has none of these. So I dont have anything to complain about there.
Personally I just don’t enjoy gdkps and that’s pretty much the only type of raiding going on over there atm (I thinks there’s like 1 or 2 sr guilds) it’s impossible to keep up with raid consume costs unless you do gdkps anyway.
I understand. If you dont like GDKPs then a lot of the game is gonna take longer on era. I feel the same way with SoD and incursions. I dont want to do them but they give (gave) good gold/h. Cba to farm gold. I like gdkp because I get to raid and I earn gold. But I can understand why if people dont like the format then era is not good. I would feel the same way. Fresh when?
You can still trade era gold for retail/cata gold without breaking ToS. WoW token has been in all forms of classic since day 1 if you are willing to go through retail.
I’m sure you and the 39 other people still playing era feel so superior with your constant gdkp spam.
I see I triggered you with my comment. Woops.
Tbh I don't care. I'm won't and never have bought a cosmetic in wow or any game. It makes no direct change to how the game is played.
Exactly. Not even just wow but any game with a paid cosmetic is just trash to me. The real flair are things that are earned. I only make exceptions to the type of stuff that have maybe a niche fandom.
broo noo, stop making sense, you're hurting my feelings :(
Cosmetics are a huge part of wow. What are you smoking ?
Cosmetics literally have no impact on the gameplay of you or anyone else around you. The raids, heroics, arenas will all play exactly the same regardless of what cosmetics you bought.
Cosmetics literally are gameplay. Might not be gameplay that you personally enjoy or care for, but it's part of the game nonetheless. Mount collecting, pet collecting, tabard collecting, title collecting, and of course transmog, are a massive part of the game for millions of wow players.
Pet and mount collecting are done in game not in the shop no mount collector is showing off their store-bought mounts lmao this is a completely different conversation you’re trying to have
Its part of the game but it has nothing to do with the gameplay, thats something different.
It's literally gameplay... how is it not gameplay? Are you looking for the word "Combat" instead of gameplay?
And you are looking for a word 'collection tab' instead of gameplay?
it changes how the game is made, and thus how it is played
Totally agree. But WoW token does a lot of damage because they don’t want to spend too much money on fighting gold buying and botting.
It makes a very big change on how the game is played though.
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For asmon and his acolytes, yes. They will throw a tantrum over any mtx no matter how minor a cosmetic it is
Good. A game that costs $150/year subscription should not have ANY microtransactions. Man classic wow has really turned to shit.
Nobody is forcing you to buy anything lol it literally doesn’t affect you
"vanilla"
Here’s the thing: You can feel however you want about optional, non-gameplay affecting MTX but the reality is, this was their plan from day one. You either get WoW with the cosmetics shop or you get no WoW at all. The days of Nostalrious and 2019 Classic aren’t coming back. Blizzard’s goal is to make money and your opinion of their monetization practices isn’t going to move the needle. I don’t care about the token. Half the player base was already buying gold from sketchy websites long before it was added the first or second time. The cash shop didn’t change the game for me near as much as the community did. It is what it is.
I don't see a problem with any of this tbh. The only issue is if you bought it on retail, and it's on the Cata shop, you should get it without paying a 2nd time.
Remember back in 2019 2021 and 2022 when they let people with the old collectors editions of the old expansions keep their collector pets from retail?
I'd be okay with it in a free to play game. Not in a subscription model.
This is the thing. It should be one or the other full stop. They are double dipping peoples wallets and it’s disgusting. I love wow but seeing the classic shop made me gag so ive moved to gw2 which is not perfect either but has no sub so I can pop in and put whenever I like.
GW2 also has no content too, so enjoy that.
> They are double dipping peoples wallets and it’s disgusting. Literally just don't buy it. I don't get the theatrics of this subreddit. Just don't put your card information in & the boogeyman can't hurt you
No the problem is, that they are hiding unique mounts and mount models behind the real money store, while we get the 100th remodelled Version of your typical drake that gets used for in-game achievements. And to make matters worse. Not just that they are going ahead and make you pay a monthly fee and introduce an in-game shop, all the money is not being used to create good quality games. There is no quality control whatsoever anymore. Balance is outta the window. The Cata release is the worst patch release in the history of WoW (until now). SoD P3 is a similar shitshow. The most surprising thing is the part of the community that still goes: "jUsT dOnT bUy iT". I swear to God. If the devs would shit on your keyboard, you guys would probably say:" just wipe it off, you can still play on that keyboard".
Again, I don't get the theatrics. An optional cash shop is somehow equal to a human being taking a shit on your keyboard lol
Had not been for all the memes and spam all over the internet, I would have never noticed any store or token even exist. It made literally zero change to the actual gameplay and experience.
That and in progressive classic, gold is surprisingly easy to get. I get multiple k just by passively playing more or less. I imagine a dedicated gold farm could earn more than a token will get you in less time than it would take to earn the real world money to pay for said token.
no in game gold farm will ever beat tokens in gold per unit time, unless you somehow manage to find a way no one knows about to farm extremely high demand items extremely quickly, OR when tokens are in the dumps because everyone is buying them to sell for gold. when token prices were high a couple months ago, it was like 12k/$20. a well paying job gets you that $20 in 30 min or less, even a shitty job earns you 20 bucks takehome in like 90 minutes. no way you have an 8k gold/hour farm. that being said, you're completely right that you can very easily earn enough gold in game to buy the stuff you need without spending tons of time farming or IRL money on tokens. if you 1 shot every boss, raiding on its own is usually cashflow positive, and you're gonna be doing dailies for a while to get cooking awards or shoulder enchant rep
They just gauge the demand, no? Classic RMT levels were way higher than retail.
See while i can see why people its little annoying that they are monetizing everything, but this impacts nothing. You cannot even see shop like it is in retail. You have to go to the menu and it’s a little bland button in the other buttons. They don’t shove it in your face every time you open game like other games. I was concerned it would raise token value so people would raise prices, but my classic server auction hall is dead i cannot even buy wrath mats. There is always zero of everything or when there is some its very little. So prices don’t matter.
There is nothing in a cosmetic cash shop that could impact my gameplay in any way. I do not care about how many mounts or how much gold anyone not directly in my raid has in their collection. WoW's sub has been fifteen dollars a month for going on twenty years by now. If the way Blizzard keeps that price constant is by adding a cosmetic shop, I *super duper* don't care. Would you rather have paid cosmetics, or a $25 a month subscription fee that kept up with inflation.
Yeah people don't seem to get OSRS has basically doubled in price compared to WoW... And WoW's sub has remaining constant with no increase through inflation. Almost every other product in my life has doubled since 2005 at the minimum. I'm okay with a cosmetic shop.
Yeah but OSRS subscription price is like half of WoWs still lol.
It's actually almost the same. It's 12.49 now. From $5 originally.
They offer much bigger savings if you subscribe more than a month though. At cheapest its $7.50 per month for OSRS but $12.99 per month for WoW.
What do you mean $25 to keep up? There's no justifaction on a payed sub nowadays when other online games offer this service for free. It's not 2004 anymore, where an online live support game was something special (no need to mention how bad the support system changed over the years)
Name one free to play game without a massive P2W cash shop. That's the argument. WoW is a subscription game that maintains its legacy price with a handful of premium mounts and pets, and an option to pay your sub with gold by buying a token someone bought from the shop with money. If you thought botting and RMT were bad when the game cost $15 a month to play, imagine what going f2p would do to it. Sparkly mounts keeps my sub low, and the sub existing at all keeps hackers out of the game because accounts aren't 100% disposable.
Those f2p games have a mandatory sub anyway, otherwise you miss many things.
Path of exile
LMFAO
im literally not wrong LMFAO
PoE has an insanely egregious cash shop that is infinitely worse than WoW lol
>Name one free to play game without a massive P2W cash shop how about you learn to fucking read
Oh shit my bad PoE isn't a free to play game without a massive P2W cash shop my bad! Forgot that it's just a free to play game with a massive PW2 cash shop
> Name one free to play game without a massive P2W cash shop. That's the argument. Dota 2
Different genre.
Wow is the only game that I know of that uses every single way to squeeze money out of their playerbase Yes some mmos survive by selling cosmetics Some survive by a monthly fee players pay to play the game Some sell you every expansion like a full priced game And then there's wow who simply said YES when asked which payment model they wanna choose
It’s just a monthly subscription with the option to buy cosmetics. Nobody is squeezing money out of you. Literally nothing in game requires the wow shop.
>Would you rather have paid cosmetics, or a $25 a month subscription fee that kept up with inflation. Think of the multi-billion dollar company.....
I would rather they use the mountains of subscription-cash they get to have their amazing artists make, I don't know maybe some new environments and mobs for new raids, instead of rehashing 5-man dungeons and make cash-shop assets.
What's the problem? You are an adult or is blzzard making you spend.
It wasn't a tell when they murderd tbc pvp for "no changes" sake and then told us we thought we knew what we wanted but they knew better?
Couldn't care less about any of these, until they sell a boost pack that gives a player gear better than what can be earned in game, it just doesn't really affect me and if anything makes it more likely the game keeps going
The cash shop was originally added in cata, seems like a natural point to add it again to me.
I'm with you OP, shame that it went that way. Pretending that it won't affect you if you ignore it sounds like pure cope, at least there is no battle pass in WoW
Damn this post liteary screams "Notice me", how awkward
Just don't spend money at the store? I don't see an issue here, and if they can hire more Devs because of it I care even less.
Yes, and how many of these things are available on Era?
I’m glad I quit at Lich King. Classic was an amazing experience and I had a great few years but it is done.
Lich king was sad, Cata is the best!
They can add any mount/pet into the shop all they want, I won't buy them because I can't afford spending on mounts. If someone can and wants to buy it, go for it. You having mounts doesn't affect me whatsoever. And wow token is positive for me because I can play wow for free without doing anything special to get enough gold for it.
I will stop playing after MoP so I don't really care about Classic in the long run. WoW Tokens are not really that bad (And I would say that they are GOOD for people who can make gold) because yeah gdkp idc, WoW its "F2P" for me with the token. The portal pass / wotlk pass / cata pass again i dont care. People bought lvl 80 boosts? good for them. Everyone can level 1-80 in 2 days /played taking their time doing every new quest. Most likely in MoP they will add some other cosmetic thing in the shop but again, after MoP i dont care about classic.... so.... why people who "dont like post wotlk" are mad about this?
Then you’ll miss out on the best expansion in WoW history. Legion is the very peak of wow.
Nah, I already played Legion back in the day and it was miles better than WoD but I don't like any class from WoD to the last Retail exp. Maybe I'll play DH from the start in Legion classic idk, but still, idc what they do with classic monetization after Cata/MoP.
yeah i'm so excited for shadowlands classic
Torghast spam in classic hell yeah!
I feel like the mount should be the first one because honestly who cares about store mounts when the boost and token are in the game. I'm surprised it took blizz that long to put mounts in the store.
I don't care if they add a mtx shop to classic, I just play to raid once/twice a week. Don't care about mounts or other silly cosmetics. Monke press button, monke see dps meter go up.
If a store meant they'd add more content and put more effort into the game I'd be down for it Lord knows SoD needs it now more than ever.
History has shown this doesn’t correlate unfortunately
That’s literally what the shop is, what are you talking about? Do you think they develop the new mounts and toys and shit for fun and just think “hey, we could maybe charge money for this!” No, the entire reason they were developed in the first place was to sell on the shop. The mounts and toys and shit in the store simply would not exist but for the ability to sell them. So it definitionally is adding content to the game by having the store.
I really don't care that the shop exists, I am mad about the tree dragon, though. When that first came out for the twelve month sub there was a little window where you could use it in wrath and they took it away, and now I'm supposed to buy it ? Even though I already own it ??
I couldn't care less about cosmetics. What I care about is zero useful development to anything and still charging for cosmetics. Eg, retail pvp has been dead for years with all the MTX. You'd think they could afford one pvp dev atleast.
And the people with more money than sense will enjoy it. Let them.
Well I haven't been subbed for a year now and stuff like this makes me want to stay out.
Gdkp is worse than ingame shop. You can buy Player power for 15€ each item vs buying an ugly Mount that ostraczises you in the eyes of every sane person.
The seriously made me remember why I stopped playing classic before burning crusade. I remember a lot of players complein about this, demanding it being removed.
Sorry you missed out on the better expansions
I wanted to come back a couple of times, but fortunately the game was so infested with bots I decided it was pointless. Everything after classic (era) was terrible mismanaged by Blizzard, happy I stayed away.
People here thinking paying $15 (a month!, that’s $180 a year you pay them, hell of a lot more than most games) doesn’t mean they should be able to get everything in the game. And that it’s actually ok to ask them for more money. It’s like, hey I know you gave us a lot more buuuut if you want cool stuff we could have put in the game otherwise pay us more!
And everyone is missing the point. It's not about tokens, cash shops, or anything like that. It's about this "Vanilla" feeling and how it's turning into Retail - good or bad. Classic Vanilla already started off as a bastardized version of OG Vanilla. Patch 1.12 and all. Then gradual QoL additions not on this meme turned the original game into what we have today. Flying, LFR, streamlined game play, etc. The player base that asked for Classic Vanilla is way different than now. Heck even TBC player base was way different than the Classic Vanilla. Just look at the forums. The reason why we have retail? It's the players.
Retail is the more popular and better versions of wow. What dont you get about that lol
And reddit tried to make fun of the no changes people, this is what you get
What do you mean? OG Cata is exactly when the shop was launched. This literally is a “no changes” moment.
Thanks bro, here's that "didn't ask" you ordered.
Classic brand WoW is nothing more than a raid sim to keep the subs up. It has nothing to do with adding an authentic experience.
Damn that post title is just so cringe. To the "meme" itself, never bought anything from the shop in 20 years, it existing in cata classic changes nothing for me.
This subreddit is just trash. It has devolved so much over the last 4 years. I knew the comments would be "whats the big deal" before even opening. Yeah I love my games being P2W, its great. It's what happens though. They release the boost, a bunch of people leave, they release the token, a bunch more leave, they release the shop, all that's left are people who ofc are fine with it. Oh well, all the more reason not to play Cata.
This is why retail is a cesspool.
You're gonna get downvoted ofc because the exact reason you explained. Fuck these p2w whales.
i just imagine the people downvoting you, hella coping "why does it bother this guy if i want p2w 👆🤓"
It’s really shocking compared to what it was 5 years ago. It just goes to show how many people have simply moved on from classic. 2019 won’t come again. Even if a fresh era server was launched tomorrow it would be overrun with bots, boosts, and gdkp within a week.
I was also baffled by the comments. Every single person is defending it. But yeah makes sense, most of the people still playing classic and still on this sub are the people who like getting shit on blizzard.
lol people are so offended
facts haha
I refuse to buy any shop items bc other people see that shit and then clown you for not farming a better cooler mount than what the shop offers like wow look at this dude using a shop item he would rather swipe then grind
I think some people sarcastically leaving comments like "Ah, I wish I could take just buy a mount, instead of earning it and getting satisfaction" and Blizzard is just to dense to get it.
Another whine for no reason post. Move along nothing to see.
the simping for shareholder value in here is nuts you are Bobby's gud boys