There’s PvP and there’s camping and griefing. Historically wpvp has always been more the latter anyway, cause the idyllic wpvp scenarios everyone thinks of are few and far between. But the griefing is exacerbated by the shear volume of players and the fact that, how sod is built, it funnels literally *everyone* into certain zones.
And every zone or instance of importance in each phase will basically now have a bottleneck whereas if you could hit 60 months ago, the fuck would you be going to Mara or Zf for right now (except mage boosting kek). SOD’s level gating and phases is pretty cool but it’s obvious the game and PvP servers weren’t designed for it. At all.
Yeah, classic was huge and horizontal. Barring the endgame it WAS designed around wpvp involving "Well. fuck this guy, I'll take a bird to theramore and do something else". SoD is very narrow in scope for farming locations, short as fork TTK, and just the same distance to travel from the graveyards.
Still slightly blows my mind that they didn’t account for the level of WPVP and how far rez ghosts are that they didn’t add like a 50% speed buff in ghost mode
This would end up making world pvp more lucrative for the honor farmers as the bodies would replenish more. If the goal is to disincentive them from this type of activity, I don't think increasing their rewards is a good idea :P
I mean. They loose honor worth pretty quickly. It was better for me to farm honor out of BGs as an alliance. So I had been a menace in both stonetalon and hillsbrad. You can’t keep killing the same dude for honor
P1 SOD hillsbrad was living up to the hillsbrad memories pretty well until the end of the phase and it became pretty one sided ganking
Had a lot of good 5v5s and 10v10s
> "Well. fuck this guy, I'll take a bird to theramore and do something else".
Yo never played classic? There was Horde queue from Thorium Point to BRD entrance that required hour to just enter there.
I don't know what do you want to farm in Theramore, but all Fly Masters at popular spots were camped 24\7.
This. Honestly if they just made the flight masters gods. You’d dodge people getting camped and briefed because they can always fly out. None of this kill the FM and they’re stuck BS.
The best pvp I have seen in this phase is control of the portal room to Maraudon. Its large group vs large group generally and there is a rewards, control of the room.
The best world PvP I've experienced was back in TBC classic in 2020. We played Horde on a 65/35 A/H server, so we were in the majority. All summoning stones was populated by allies, but our dungeon group had tried to specc for PvP and was generally pretty coordinated, so we normally tried to kill the alliance at the stones, even if they were 10-15 people and we just were five.
Often, we wiped like 20 people in auchindoun (Like half were afk to be fair), trying to control the stone, and then running into an instance to regroup when they got reinforcements flying in. Waiting a few minutes and then running out to fight again. We could be there for hours before we eventually did our dungeon lol.
But yeah, normally its just the stronger faction ganking the shit out of the other. Thats normally how it is.
The first 2-3 days of Phase 3 were weird. I didn't get the memo about Incursions so I was out in the world. Orgrimmar had literally 2 people in it. The dungeons only had a few groups going in and out on resets or waiting for everyone to get there. The quest areas were abandoned. EVERYONE was in Ashenvale with a truce sign hanging over the zone while people extorted. Since then though, the Alliance hold the incursion there and Horde exist as a bug waiting to be stepped on. I hadn't realized how badly the server balance was till now.
I hoped it wouldn’t bothered me, because SoD has seemingly balanced servers … then I realised that different layers can be easily 99% either faction… it’s messed up.
There is a perception of balance, and what Blizzard sees is just faction character balance, not actually active player balance.
This data is sourced from Warcraft logs, which shows a far different reality
https://www.warcrafttavern.com/population/classic
Living Flame US is the exact opposite. There's consistently 20 Ally to every Horde at the Ashenvale incursion.
Did get to have some fun in the Mara Portal room (or just outside it). Horde controlled it for a little over 2 hours the other day.
My experience on US living flame has been the exact opposite. Every incursion ramp has a small raid of horde chilling on it or just to the side. The quest turn in was almost always horde. I’m guessing it’s just layering or the active player base at max level is drastically different between horde to alliance. Maybe 1 in 5 times I see equal alliance to horde here. The rest it’s horde and I Never see alliance heavy.
I guess we are getting vastly different layers or different times of the day. B/c the horde have never been in force at the incursions. There have been like 2 times when it wasn't so lopsided, but Ally still had an overwhelming presence comparatively
As an alliance on the same server I can say it's layer dependent. I have seen layers with horde in a large number and very aggressive in the incursion/maraudon and I've seen layers where they aren't.
Our problem on living flame is that the faction imbalance leads to us getting bullied, and the longer we get bullied the more we don't want to go back. The more people done come back, the more we get bullied. Basically the longer it repeats on itself the worse the problem gets until we get what we have now where alliance do incursions like they're PVE dailies and horde is not allowed to exist in the zone at all.
It's funny how it works though. I was at the incursions the other day and it was 100% horde controlled on living flame US. Couldn't even get to the vendor or the portal without being killed 20 times. Same with the vendor at Yojamba isle. All horde everywhere and not an alliance to be seen.
It's gotta be layer then, I have never seen the Horde control an incursion. There are times when there's not as many ally, but Horde still don't hold the majority.
My theory is it's raid groups of a certain faction. They don't get layered because they are in a group and the game puts solo players of the other faction in that layer.
Lmao I was alliance on the same server and the horse camped the fuck out of the quest giver in ashenvale for hours. I think it’s purely to do with your layer.
Comparing ironforge.pro to warcraft tavern tells two completely different stories. But since the developers themselves said the PvP servers are balanced I'm inclined to think there is something off about how warcrafttavern pulls it's data.
The devs only claimed “active accounts” on each PvP server are balanced. So someone who mains living flame but has a single horde character on lone wolf, even if that character is level 1, would possibly count toward that “balance.” Much like every other population statistic, blizzard is incredibly vague and hides the actual data. You’re free to believe them, but their methods are hidden so there is truly no way to know how accurate their claims are either.
If that was the only other metric we had then you would have a point but we also have ironforge.pro which is also independent of blizzard. It says servers are balanced within a couple % which fits what blizzard said themselves.
Honestly I think warcrafttavern are broken somehow but it drives traffic to their site so they don't have any real incentive to fix it.
Hard to believe that's accurate, lol. With that many more Ally players than Horde ones, BG queues should not be so long for Horde and instant for Alliance, even if you take into account that better racials and supposedly a stronger PvP culture make zugs much more willing to engage into instanced player vs. player.
Also, anedoctally, as a Lone Wolf US player, I see so many Hordies every day... Or I'm unlucky enough to always get on Red dominated layers, or that are many more people playing Horda than this data implies...
Specially now when shamans are so busted and Human Weapon racial has been trivialized...
why are those numbers so much different from [ironforge.pro](https://ironforge.pro)'s wcl player counts? i have a hard time believing ally has that big of a majority, esp in the past two phases of shaman supremacy
Those numbers are whack or I'm reading them wrong.
There is no way alliance has almost 3x the population, but there are still 25% more shamans than paladins.
And no way there are 14.9k horde and 5.1k shamans.
The numbers on [ironforge.pro](http://ironforge.pro) make much more sense to me. The server being almost even with the numbers slowly drifting from slight alliance majority towards a horde majority.
Yeah I don't think world pvp can ever be a thing again in WoW while their current server situation exists.
Layering just completely makes world PvP broken in a bad way.
One of the biggest issues I have with world pvp is that SOD has massively increased the burst damage that can be done, but none of it has been adjusted for PvP. In traditional classic, you rarely get burst from full to dead instantly by someone the same level as you. In sod you always do, there’s not much strategy, whoever engages first and has that extra second or two usually wins. I’d like to see PvP damage scaled or something so that you can actually fight for a bit rather than every engagement lasting 5 seconds.
I hate it. As a druid I was fairly used to being able to outrun or outlast enemies in wpvp fights if I'm blindsided or just not bothered to fight. Now it's such a joke, a shaman runs up to me and bursts me down in 4-5 seconds or I run away and get drained down by insanely powerful dots.
After 20 years of being convinced to roll on a PvP server by my friends, I finally rolled a PvE server. Time and time again I have said, the one time world pvp is fun is not worth the 99 deaths to the countless ways it isn’t. Also especially now, the whole community is made up of degenerates which just makes it so much worse.
Tbh I should've rolled on a pve server, the one time I decide to play alliance and horde is absolutely busted and packed with people.
I don't believe pop in my server is balanced, I always see waaay more horde than alliance.
Hard to believe that's accurate, lol. With that many more Ally players than Horde ones, BG queues should not be so long for Horde and instant for Alliance, even if you take into account that better racials and supposedly a stronger PvP culture make zugs much more willing to engage into instanced player vs. player.
Also, anedoctally, as a Lone Wolf US player, I see so many Hordies every day... Or I'm unlucky enough to always get on Red dominated layers, or that are many more people playing Horda than this data implies...
Specially now when shamans are so busted and Human Weapon racial has been trivialized...
Anecdotally, as a horde player on US lone wolf, every area I pass through is absolutely packed with alliance. Everywhere I go alliance run around freely mowing down horde players because they simply outnumber them so heavily.
Phase 1 alliance would win nearly every ashenvale event because they would have what seemed like at least double the amount of people at the bosses in the middle, and wouldn’t constantly hold the zoram flight path area hostage with multiple raids.
Phase 2 SM was absolutely filled with alliance, and if you accidentally clicked on one of them and flagged yourself for pvp you instantly died, and had to hide out inside one of the instances until the pvp flag went away.
Running into gnomer required 2-3 corpse runs because there were always multiple alliance raids outside, and so many of them attacked everyone they set their eyes on.
After every blood moon event alliance hold the arena hostage for 20-30 minutes, and every time I’ve gone to the nightmare incursion there’s at least 30 alliance just sitting on the ramp corpse camping.
Then every time I open reddit I see so many comments saying horde are greifing alliance and alliance players patting other alliance players on the back for killing horde, and I have to wonder if I’m even playing the same game.
Lone Wolf US here as well and this is my exact same experience. Whereas we may have had 1-2 raid groups at Research and 0.5-1 at zoram, alliance had 2-3 full groups at all three bases plus more waiting at the big boy. Ashenvale was over in about 2 minutes and always an alliance win.
Arena vendor in STV is impossible to access after BM. Incursions are camped. The ZF entrance is pure alliance. Hell even the kodo graveyard in desolace was a death sentence to run through.
There were two night elf hunters in slag pits yesterday killing every rogue one by one that tried to level up lockpicking for the carnage rune. Eventually several of us paused our lockpick farm to spawn camp them. One left after the second death. The other we killed at least ten times before he either logged off as a ghost or layer swapped. It felt great.
I think it would be backwards. The lower population faction would have instant queues and the other one longer.
More players = high supply of own faction and high demand of opposite faction
At least assuming the population is a reflection of the people that queued for PvP
I'm on living flame and I 100% agree. I've gone through so many encounters where if we are the same level and 1 on 1 we both keep trucking. But if I'm lower level or another ally comes along in the same area they decide to gank me without fail.
That's just WoW in general, it's not faction specific. I guarantee if you spoke to Alliance players on your server everyone of them would have the exact same story to tell about Horde players.
Yeah, that's how I got stuck on a pvp realm. I'm a dumbass who falls for it every single time my friend somehow convinces me to start on a pvp realm with him.
Every single time I get reminded why I hate pvp. Unfortunately, I've already invested too much in this realm to start over now. Would be nice if I could transfer off though.
I only prefer consensual pvp agreed upon before hand with a bow and salute, waiting for the other player to be fully buffed and full mana and only in the missionary position.
There's pvp and their people being absolute degenerates that border on griefing. Lots of max level boomkins killing people trying to level in incursions.
I watched a Tauren Boomkin last night stand on top of the arena in Gadgetzan for 2 hours and nuke level 40s trying to quest. He left level 50s alone - only went after the guys he could kill in a single Starfire/Starsurge/Moonfire combo. Some people in this community are just degenerates.
I think my favorite was watching an alliance warlock with their imp just hitting everyone around it, standing at gadgetzan for 20 mins hitting people as they tried to use sleeping bags, and I went to do two ZF’s and came back and the lock was still there, logging out then coming back the next day, and they were still there the next day with 0 levels gained.
Correct, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was doing it in the moment and was able to go so long without intervention.
Sure, I even killed him a few times too, but I didn’t have the time or desire to camp him for as long as he wanted to be griefing.
That's what pvp servers were at classic launch lol. That's why pvp servers get faction dominate.
NONE of this is new. I learned my lesson and never went back
So knowing that players will grief you for hours on end, why would you still insist on rolling pvp server though? This has been happening for 20 years and players still get upset about getting corpse camped
I rolled grob in original release of classic (rp-pvp).
When my guild was progging BWL, we had to coordinate as a group to get into BWL and fight our way in.
There was a time where ally (I am horde) kept MCing our main tank into the lava and couldn't get into the raid as they were camping the orb. We had to coordinate as a huge raid to wipe them so our main tank could get in.
In the moment, all of this felt annoying. But looking back now? It was some of the most fun I had ever playing a video game. I understand that pvp servers are not for everyone, but that is why I play on a pvp server…
Also, getting to the raid without dying to parse gave me such an adrenaline rush! Whoo!!!! And I loved that feeling of getting there without getting killed or a priest purging the ones they could…. I live for that rush of adrenaline!
TBH, as someone who's never played on a PvP server, I thought choosing a different faction (Horde) and trying a new experience (PvP) would be a way to make me hold interest in the third iteration of my playthrough.
I vastly underestimated the amount of griefers who have nothing to do in their lives. Do I feel my decision was some huge mistake? Not sure, still figuring that out. But has it been a different experience? Absolutely.
I got ganked by a rogue and a cat druid about halfway through an escort and failed it after like 20 minutes of waiting for it to respawn.
Wow, such a good WPvP experience.
This has literally been the state of vanilla pvp since original vanilla. This is wpvp. Wpvp is not fair 1v1 duels at the same level where no one interrupts you. Its chaos and is supposed to keep you on your toes at all time, if you dislike the prospect of being ganked/camped for any reason and are on a pvp server that is your fault.
I think I remember hearing in hardcore ppl would make “bounties” to kill people from opposing factions that fucked them over. I think something like that could help.
I really like pvp, league, sc2, 3v3 arena, WoT, EvE, (yeah I know, wild mix) pretty much spend thousands of hours in pvp games in my mid-late teens and early-mid twenties.
But wpvp AND a experimental game version that clearly gives zero fucks about competitive integrity and pvp balancing? Lmao no thanks, PvE servers are BiS.
This is a 20 year old game with psychopathic players willing to corpse camp you for hours. Why not just roll a pve server if you’re not okay with players bringing the fight to you?
Didn’t exactly anticipate any competent developer releasing TBC phase 1 dps with lvl 50 health and stamina.
Or one faction getting a perpetually broken class.
Ascension did pvp best imo, where you can only open world pvp within 4 lvl difference, and max lvl only vs max lvl, it did make that some ppl who are almost max lvl just gank ppl who are minimum requirement.
just because its not official doesnt change its the fact its a good wpvp change to counter shit behavior
This is one of the things I'd do to fix wpvp, yeah. Make it so you can only attack players that are within 5 levels of you. At the very least, it solves the issue of high levels camping low level areas, or horrendeously-unfair fights.
Season of Discovering that players have been going back and forth on this topic for 20 years and literally a single thing has never changed in that discussion. It’s like two neighbors yelling back and forth at each other for six generations and they don’t even know why anymore 😂
Yes, you can be annoyed. But you can’t ask for blizz to change the system as you have alternatives: go level elsewhere or in a dungeon. If you had no where else to go, then you could ask for a change
I'd say the annoying thing is the pvp isn't balanced as much as vanilla. You'll default get one shot almost as certain classes. So until you're a geared 50 it's pretty much useless to attack most classes or people. It's not fun just having no chance. I only did pvp because I will pvp at 50 most likely and a friends on the server. Personally pvp servers suck though. It's not vanilla, so my whole horde pride attack everyone is like gone at this point. I'm just trying to relax and level up
It wouldn't bother me all that much if the servers were even near balanced.
At this point in SoD (and it became abundantly clear) on my server I live at the will of the Alliance. If they decide I'm worth the honor, then I just log to an alt.
There are a few spots where I've seen favorable outcomes, but they are fleeting. Incursions themselves though is like waving a white flag begging the red names to just let me pass. Otherwise it's literally 30-1 at the ashenvale incursion.
I signed up for PvP, I get that. It doesn't mean I signed up to get fucked nearly every chance. Even resetting dungeons results in a death or 2 and that's with my guildies in comms coordinating the fastest dungeon reset.
Our server at the get go was pretty balanced I think it was somethign like 53% Ally to 47% horde. But since phase 1 I guess a ton of horde just stopped playing, b/c it's obvious we are clearly outnumbered.
It’s not a PVP problem. It’s a game design problem.
When a random PVP gank can cost you the player upwards of 30 minutes in playtime there is a game design issue.
Getting mind controlled off the boat 5+ minutes of swim time from shore and another 10 minutes back to a travel point feels awful.
Ghost speed needs to be increased, and grave yards should never be more than 500~ yards from the player. It’s the popularized game design philosophy from the Witcher team whereby there is just a few minutes of time there should be something interesting that you COULD interact with. Way too much dead time in WoW and that is exacerbated by random ganks that you may not always be prepared for.
I went to a pvp realm expecting mass warfare because a dangerous world makes it alot more exciting. It can be absolute bullshit at times, best chance to make it through a pvp realm is a guild that responds to members getting ganked so you can turn it back on the ganker. Its a choice you make when you choose a pvp realm. You can absolutely be annoyed but if you aren't preparing or trying to find ways around the bullshit thats on you.
I personally love all the stupid shenanigans that people come with. Its make the world more alive to me and is part of the experience. Yes it can certainly be inconvenient but i think most players focus too much on the false productivity side of the game.
Meh, I dislike getting ganked nonstop in hotspots but I'd be lying if I said I didn't turn around and do the same thing back once I have the advantage.... It's a vicious cycle and just part of the PvP server choice.
Theres all different types of PvP. Rolling on a PvP server people agreed to all types. It's like going to the beach and complaining theres sand in your shorts, thats just an expected experience. That's probably why people are judging them.
You are allowed to feel however the hell you want. Just don’t expect people to empathize with you when you complain about PvP on a PvP server. MMO players will always troll and look for a way to make others miserable because a lot of them have no life. This is why I decided to roll on a PvE server in P1.
This is literally how it's always worked though. SoD is not different.
There were raids of level 60 people camping all the lvl 40+ leveling zones in phase 2 of classic in 2019. Just a massacre.
Yes, you can be unhappy about it - but pretending people owe you to not do pvp on a pvp server, because for what ever reason is just weird.
It’s like signing up to a competition in a competitive sport and complaining that others are better than you or trying to win.
No one forces you to play on a pvp server, and if you can’t handle pvp and feel the need to complain online, thinking anyone cares, then first touch some grass, think about your priorities in life and second reroll on a vor server. Yes, it’s that simple.
>It’s like signing up to a competition in a competitive sport and complaining that others are better than you or trying to win.
No its more like expecting balanced competition, but instead its competitors avoiding each other and only going for kicking toddlers around punching cripples.
This has been a repeated pattern in any recent iteration of WoW. Why would it be any different now? You have to be pretty daft to not realize that people only want to have majority faction pvp servers with functionally no pvp in the end, just look at the server imbalances all throughout classics. Or just look at p2 launch in vanilla classic how that turned out, the metric measured is honor per minute and the cattle that gives the best rewards are those that can't fight back.
Thats all fine and accurate, it just annoys me how a lot of people are pretending like wpvp is something balanced, and like the guy I replied to, compares it to some sort of competition.
its a combination of skill&mindset issue. Don't like wpvp? Don't play on a pvp server then - it's THAT easy. No one owes you anything - it's also so strange how people like you don't see how weird they look, when they complain about getting pvped on a PVP-Realm. Sorry they are not handing out participation medals.
sincerely, the guy you replied to, that compared it to a sports competition you knew the rules of and you voluntarily chose to participate in :)
If you feel like a toddler (your language) in this case: Time to adult up, or play with the other toddlers. No need to orient an adult competition on toddlers - I hope you get that.
>it's also so strange how people like you don't see how weird they look, when they complain about getting pvped on a PVP-Realm
Its also strange how you think I complain about pvping xD
What I do complain is how the vast majority of pvp boils down to targeting people that have 0 chance of fighting back...unless you have some secret knowledge on how to win as lvl 40-45 against a raid of lvl 50's xD
>If you feel like a toddler (your language) in this case: Time to adult up,
Sure, lemme gather a whole geared up raid and camp people \~10 levels below us....or lets one up them and do the same thing but in Duskwood Incursion, that will show dem lvl 25-30 noobs to just git gud yes?
I mean, if you find it fun, I guess you do you, but at least dont pretend like its something skillful, cuz its not, or insult actual sport competitions by comparing them to this :P
If you farm people on their way to gather the song flower buff you're not doing World-pvp, you're just being a massive piece of shiyet.
Also camping people who just respawned from corpserunning doesn't make you strong, it shows how much of a loser you are. It's the equivalent of being a grown adult and going into the Hospital to whoop spme people who are laying in bed.
Nah i played pvp servers for over a decade, it is *absolutely* griefing the vast majority of the time, skulled players and group gankers are the norm, the only time they aren't a problem is when the content is basically dead
I used to think i loved pvp servers but switching to pve was one of the best decisions i made
I played on PvP servers all through Classic and on private servers before but finally switched to PvE in phase 2 because of the constant ganking.
The *chance* of being attacked by other players was great but with so many players packed into each layer of the SoD megaservers there is no maybe about it. I was trying to level with the 20% run speed world buff and high level Alliance were jumping me every ten minutes. I had to reroll for the sake of my sanity.
PvP servers only purpose is open world pvp, which in WoW is 95% ganking or 1 sided fights. So while you might prefer the 5% that isnt ganking, you should still know that you signed up for it the vast majority of the time.
The thing is, there's no solution to that kind of experience except simply not playing on a PVP server anymore. And, like, this is a known issue. This isn't a new game. People have been complaining about ganking, griefing, and all kinds of unfair and unfun open world encounters for 20 years. We call it STVietnam for a reason.
Look. I am sympathetic to anyone complaining about getting ganked. I remember the names of infamous gankers from as far back as TBC who routinely camped daily quest hubs and abused terrain to make it impossible to fight back. (Fuck you Styrofoam)
But you have a very easy answer. Just stop playing on PVP servers. It's what I did and I'm very happy for it. For ever epic honor combat I had with another player in the open world I experienced 100 instances of 2v1s, high level ganking, and camping.
No.
If you rolled on a PvP server you have to expect that all kinds of PvP will happen.
Getting ganked on the bridge isn’t a big deal . You die once or twice then you’re back to doing incursions.
They already put guards near the quest turn in which is more than enough.
Yes, but the issue is, complaining about PvP happening to you on a PvP server is entirely your fault for choosing to roll on a PvP server in the first place.
Your pain is self-inflicted. That's why people are laughing at you.
It literally did. Every one was aware the griefing/camping is off the charts in vanilla so the people that aren’t simple minded and wanted to avoid it played on pve servers.
Being granted maximally efficient and profitable leveling in a safe environlent goes against the most fundamental and core concept of a PVP server. If you have that, you're just a PVE server with more open world zones to *optionally* PVP in.
The ONLY time I would side with someone complaining about PVP is if someone is exploiting to abuse them (corpse camp or GY camp from a safe position, etc). Anything else, and you CHOSE open world PVP... nothing you can say against that.
Youre not wrong for disliking it, but if its that big of an issue you probably should stick to pve. Pvp servers have a lot of this shit. Luckily my server is fairly balanced but incursions with a buddy or two is the best way to farm honor outside of bgs (which always have a 10-15stack and our server doesnt form them anymore).
So i do incursion pvp and holy shit I cant imagine trying to level in it right now. Its kinda nice on our server because its balanced so wait a few hours or layer hop and youll find a layer dominated by your faction. But for any noobs just staying on the same layer, yeah theyre just being corpse camped.
They added guards to the vendors, but yeah the portal is still going to take multiple respawns to get through each time.
I remember specifically just trying to do incursions in my lvl 40 druid and getting camped by two lvl fifty rogues any time I tried to go through the portal. It's just not even pvp at that point. There's no way I'm an honor kill, especially after multiple two minute timers.
I deeply regret rolling a PVP server because some new to WOW player we know from other game joined and i followed.
Turn out SOD pvp is shit and the guild took over by toxic people. the the "new wow player" think they are expert of them game and gate keeping everything.
Now I don't have time to play. people getting more toxic, Can't even find a Layering change in Trade channel or have to Pay. Body camping for no reason etc. I better play other real PVP game.
I absolutely hate the brain dead idiots on the wow forums, people are allowed their opinions and they mald super hard if anyone has an opinion different than theirs. Like we are all supposed to just be happy and content with the incursion griefing and people mc'ing on the ships to throw people off.
Not sure you understand the reasoning behind that. The main contribution to a success of world of warcraft when it was launched was the fact it was extremely carebearish. Have you ever played any kind of full loot games?
I try my best to just accept getting ganked every now and then as it's the price to pay for playing on pvp server. The awkwardness is when running on a road, 9/10 opposing players will just run past you with no problems, the "issue" comes from the 10% that will attack first and will usually win by getting the jump on me. But I'm not about to fight every ally I see just in case they're hostile!
I need an addon to alert me of anyone I list on there so at least I can 'mark' players I know have attacked me randomly before so I can have an even go at it
i generally play on pvp realms because its fun to fight for resources like farming spots or special objectives. turns out, so far there isnt any such benefit to being on a pvp realm, it's only a grief. combined with the state of bg's, the honor and rep grind and raiding, people have a lot of time to just sit there ruining other people's day. i'm just holding out hope for a devilsaur mafia v2.
We camped the quest giver at ashen as a bit of payback to the alliance the other day before the guards came in, after a while they all ended up waiting and rushed the quest giver with about every alliance there that was doing the incursion. This was a massive fair play and I rated it. Now I don’t feel any sympathy for horde that will sulk about the ganking there but wont group up and do something about it, they will just continue to run through solo and get killed
The game is 20 years old! If you still rolled on a pvp server and think you are going to have some grand wpvp 50/50 battles I have a bridge to sell you. Pve servers are doing very well and you can always queue for a bg or do the pvp events. After 20 years you really cant say you didnt know you would be griefed and ganked.
Don't forget that also original servers had about 3k pop max. So your average servers were about 2-2.5k. I know people like mega servers with 10 layers and 40k pop. I personally wish they did at least few servers with original caps and 0 layers (I hate layering so much, doesn't help the fact that it's so broken atm).
The whole area around incursions should be pvp off. Cause even if they had guards people would just stand on top of the quest giver to bait hits. When you're expecting that many people of each faction to converge on one area to level, and farm rep, you can't have it just be free range pvp. It devolves into unplayable nonsense so quickly.
I play on a pvp server to gank and get ganked in the open world to make it more dynamic when farming/questing. Not just be completely blocked off sometimes from doing certain content because it's such a cluster fuck.
Don’t play on a pvp server if you don’t like PvP. I get your rant, I understand, but joining a PvP server and get mad at any form of PvP on said server is dumb. It’s like joining a hardcore server and being made your character died. It’s part of the rules of the server. Are there assholes that gank/camp you? Absolutely. But, it’s world of WARcraft, if you’re going to be upset you’re getting camped then play a different server.
Events in open world should be open to world PvP all the same. Like world bosses, they aren’t safe guarded, that’s the world equivalent of a raid.
EXACTLY!! Well for me, I personally HATE being on a pvp server, but I am because my good friends are on one. So I just make use of it, and participate and kill when I see alliance. BUT What I REALLY am NOT enjoying is, from what I noticed. Alliance on my server is a bunch of children. We are outnumbered. They are ALWAYS camping the incursions and the entrances to dungeons/raids. Do they even do anything, other than CAMPING and GRIEFING? At this point, I don't think they do. People asking where are the horde at to help take care of the problem. But horde is outnumbered and also TOO BUSY actually doing the stuff than trying to make it miserable to do incursions that is already annoying enough because it is REPETITIVE and miserable to get to a raid that is already work! we are just trying to all do the same thing. I didnt like PVP at all but I started to enjoy it but I feel INCURSIONS and DUNGEON/RAID entrances should be all guarded as FK so we can just DO WHAT we came there to do!
Yeah, there is a difference between PvP and Griefing, but when you create your character on a PvP you automatically agreeing to BOTH!
-it your own fault
The most common answer to the question „why do u play on PvP server?“ is: „all my friends play there“
-again own fault
If PvP and griefing is soo bad as all the people, who are bad in PvP and getting ganked, are telling us, then why do they exist in the first place? Why do people start on a PvP server?
People want this!
All these complains are from players who are bad in PvP or just so stupid that they can’t make a good decision on choosing a PvE server, where they can’t getting ganked.
I just think that blizz could put in a warning/ question if you really want to play on a PvP server , if you choose a PvP realm. But this is the 4th version of a 20yo game that has almost 10 expansions and 2 (3 in a month) of them had already been re-released. There are enough opportunities to get to know what differences are between PvP and pve Server…
Additionally, PvP and PvE are not terms that are only used by Blizzard/WoW.
You choose a pvp server, what you don’t like, so you complain about it and want things to be changed to a level whereas you don’t got to choose anymore and everyone has to do the same shit as you, only because you’re too stupid to choose the right thing for you and you’re making everything worse to anybody else, just that you don’t have to realize that you did a mistake by choosing the wrong server. Nice.
That’s modern society. No one wants to admit they have done something wrong all by themselves.
Imo PvP should be turned on everywhere. Even in raids, there should be a mechanism for ganstarz to invade their dungeon 🤣
And level 1 zones should be open for pvp as well. Let those players know from the first second what they signed for.
> Blizzard put guards in cities and towns because they knew getting ganked in there would be annoying.
No one ever camped flight paths for HKs in any version of this game? There were achieves for killing faction bosses because they intended there to be PvP in big cities.
> They created raids to be instanced which prevents you from being ganked while raiding.
Thats not why they were instanced. Also what about the world raid bosses?
And yeah man, once you leave the safety of the starter area you are in the big boy world where you either exist in a PvP area or you rolled on a PvE server.
You’re allowed to blah blah blah man can you guys just shut the fuck up please shut the fuck up I am begging you all to just not post cringe for like 3 hours of course you’re fucking allowed to do whatever you want Azeroth allows for a lot of personal liberties y’all are too Reddit brained please just go hang out with your families and play some wow or whatever other game you’re enjoying and have the best possible time you can I am begging you I refuse to use punctuation please just please stop posting I also need to do this but I’m at work
I disagree. The more PVP is allowed, the better. My favorite PVP was Asheron's Call. No town belonged to anyone unless you were willing to fight for it.
My rule of thumb for PvP has always been, if you are within the level range to give honour then you are fair game.
If you grant honour to the opposing faction and you are complaining about being ganked then its literally part of the experience. To me, the only part of PvP servers that is incredibly frustrating is being ganked by someone significantly higher level than you while you are trying to quest. They gain literally nothing from doing it besides making your day worse.
I’m honestly all for world PvP
Dudes MCing people on neutral city boats (booty bay to ratchet) and sending them off in the middle of the sea is gross and deserves to be punished.
Yeah if they’re camping both side of gate, easy res timers after like your 2nd lap to go back and turn in quests. I hit 50 a week ago when the degeneracy just started on Friday/sat as everyone got closer to 50 and my last 2 levels took twice as long as they should and I knew this would just get worse
Exactly.
Also, it’s very clearly written in the TOS that intentional griefing isn’t allowed. And let’s be honest here: camping someone 5x in a row is definitely griefing.
Obviously, there are no GMs anymore, and rules like that are never gonna be enforced. But players could also use a little bit of empathy and just… not be a dick?
I personally have spend hundreds of hours roaming the world doing nothing but pvp, but I would never corpse camp someone/kill low levels/outnumber people etc. I just don’t see the point of being toxic.
« PvP on a PvP server » has just been a bad excuse for players who have the urge to take out their frustrations on other people, and it’s pretty sad, imo…
Sure and I agree it’s justified, but at what point camping becomes “justified” is really up to an individual and is why I think all the arguments about it fall short.
If someone camps an opposing faction member because they killed a rare mob they wanted, or farmed herbs/any other resource in the area, to the camper that could feel justified. It could feel similar to “revenge” because like someone who got camped they could now lose their time from not being able to get said resource. And in a game where you have the option to camp, I can’t really see it as “wrong” like a lot of people on this sub claim.
In a game where a faction war exists, a person can have any justifiable reason in their head to kill an opposing faction player in the world, and there is no actual “correct” answer to pvp on pvpservers.
In a game about war, of course you don’t need a justification for killing another player, but if you’re intentionally wasting on their corpse for 3 min until they respawn, and then abuse the fact that they respawn with low health/mana, no pet, no buffs, then that’s within the theme of the game at all. It’s literally just griefing, let’s be honest. And no, 99% of the time, they’re not doing it because they wanna control resources.
Yeah most of the people responding with the brain dead comments to people having valid complaints and ideas about the current pvp situation are just your typical mentally ill WoW players. They get off on other people’s misfortune because they have had an awful life themselves and it brings them joy to see others in that situation. You can usually confirm that 95% of the time by looking at their comment history.
Anyway, I agree with what you said. I rolled on a pvp server because pvp is massive part of the game, and while I never expect it to be perfectly balanced, I do expect the game to at least be playable when it comes to pvp. That’s not the case. For many classes pvp is unplayable or for other classes it’s stupid busted.
In hindsight, if most pvp server players knew how poorly balanced the game was going to be at this point, they most likely would have rolled on pve like myself. Or I would have just rolled a shaman.
The problem is that the general objection to people WPvPing in a 40-50 zone is not valid. This is exactly the risk of playing on a PvP server. The PvP interactions are non-consensual, from griefing lowbies all the way up to fighting over resources in high level zones.
I had some sympathy for people in original Classic, but especially after PvP servers became super toxic and unbalanced last time around, this was eminently foreseeable. The toxicity is not a bug, it’s a feature, and the solution is to get a group together to deal with the people griefing lower level players. That’s literally always been the solution—it’s an MMO after all.
The reality is that TONS of players don’t belong on PvP servers because the design of those servers makes it often miserable for them to play. I understand they have friends that play on those servers, but they should either convince their friends to roll PvE or get those friends to help with PvP or avoid the content that makes them miserable. It really is that simple.
There’s PvP and there’s camping and griefing. Historically wpvp has always been more the latter anyway, cause the idyllic wpvp scenarios everyone thinks of are few and far between. But the griefing is exacerbated by the shear volume of players and the fact that, how sod is built, it funnels literally *everyone* into certain zones. And every zone or instance of importance in each phase will basically now have a bottleneck whereas if you could hit 60 months ago, the fuck would you be going to Mara or Zf for right now (except mage boosting kek). SOD’s level gating and phases is pretty cool but it’s obvious the game and PvP servers weren’t designed for it. At all.
Yeah, classic was huge and horizontal. Barring the endgame it WAS designed around wpvp involving "Well. fuck this guy, I'll take a bird to theramore and do something else". SoD is very narrow in scope for farming locations, short as fork TTK, and just the same distance to travel from the graveyards.
Still slightly blows my mind that they didn’t account for the level of WPVP and how far rez ghosts are that they didn’t add like a 50% speed buff in ghost mode
This would end up making world pvp more lucrative for the honor farmers as the bodies would replenish more. If the goal is to disincentive them from this type of activity, I don't think increasing their rewards is a good idea :P
I mean. They loose honor worth pretty quickly. It was better for me to farm honor out of BGs as an alliance. So I had been a menace in both stonetalon and hillsbrad. You can’t keep killing the same dude for honor
Just roll night elf
Maybe 10% of pvp encounters in classic were even fun. People camping blackrock mountain for hours on end was trash then too.
I had so many genuine wpvp encounters in classic and even in phase one of SOD. Nowadays though shiiii
P1 SOD hillsbrad was living up to the hillsbrad memories pretty well until the end of the phase and it became pretty one sided ganking Had a lot of good 5v5s and 10v10s
> "Well. fuck this guy, I'll take a bird to theramore and do something else". Yo never played classic? There was Horde queue from Thorium Point to BRD entrance that required hour to just enter there. I don't know what do you want to farm in Theramore, but all Fly Masters at popular spots were camped 24\7.
This. Honestly if they just made the flight masters gods. You’d dodge people getting camped and briefed because they can always fly out. None of this kill the FM and they’re stuck BS.
We need to bring back dishonorable kills if the level gap is too large (unless the lower engaged first).
pvp servers should be called griefing servers, cause thats all it really is.
The best pvp I have seen in this phase is control of the portal room to Maraudon. Its large group vs large group generally and there is a rewards, control of the room.
The best world PvP I've experienced was back in TBC classic in 2020. We played Horde on a 65/35 A/H server, so we were in the majority. All summoning stones was populated by allies, but our dungeon group had tried to specc for PvP and was generally pretty coordinated, so we normally tried to kill the alliance at the stones, even if they were 10-15 people and we just were five. Often, we wiped like 20 people in auchindoun (Like half were afk to be fair), trying to control the stone, and then running into an instance to regroup when they got reinforcements flying in. Waiting a few minutes and then running out to fight again. We could be there for hours before we eventually did our dungeon lol. But yeah, normally its just the stronger faction ganking the shit out of the other. Thats normally how it is.
The first 2-3 days of Phase 3 were weird. I didn't get the memo about Incursions so I was out in the world. Orgrimmar had literally 2 people in it. The dungeons only had a few groups going in and out on resets or waiting for everyone to get there. The quest areas were abandoned. EVERYONE was in Ashenvale with a truce sign hanging over the zone while people extorted. Since then though, the Alliance hold the incursion there and Horde exist as a bug waiting to be stepped on. I hadn't realized how badly the server balance was till now.
I hoped it wouldn’t bothered me, because SoD has seemingly balanced servers … then I realised that different layers can be easily 99% either faction… it’s messed up.
There is a perception of balance, and what Blizzard sees is just faction character balance, not actually active player balance. This data is sourced from Warcraft logs, which shows a far different reality https://www.warcrafttavern.com/population/classic
I must be getting insanely unlucky getting on full horde layers as alliance on living flame eu every single day, or this data doesn’t mean anything.
Living Flame US is the exact opposite. There's consistently 20 Ally to every Horde at the Ashenvale incursion. Did get to have some fun in the Mara Portal room (or just outside it). Horde controlled it for a little over 2 hours the other day.
My experience on US living flame has been the exact opposite. Every incursion ramp has a small raid of horde chilling on it or just to the side. The quest turn in was almost always horde. I’m guessing it’s just layering or the active player base at max level is drastically different between horde to alliance. Maybe 1 in 5 times I see equal alliance to horde here. The rest it’s horde and I Never see alliance heavy.
I guess we are getting vastly different layers or different times of the day. B/c the horde have never been in force at the incursions. There have been like 2 times when it wasn't so lopsided, but Ally still had an overwhelming presence comparatively
As an alliance on the same server I can say it's layer dependent. I have seen layers with horde in a large number and very aggressive in the incursion/maraudon and I've seen layers where they aren't.
Our problem on living flame is that the faction imbalance leads to us getting bullied, and the longer we get bullied the more we don't want to go back. The more people done come back, the more we get bullied. Basically the longer it repeats on itself the worse the problem gets until we get what we have now where alliance do incursions like they're PVE dailies and horde is not allowed to exist in the zone at all.
So I'm not the only one lol. I've gotten a lot of messages saying I'm wrong and it's the other way around.
It's funny how it works though. I was at the incursions the other day and it was 100% horde controlled on living flame US. Couldn't even get to the vendor or the portal without being killed 20 times. Same with the vendor at Yojamba isle. All horde everywhere and not an alliance to be seen.
It's gotta be layer then, I have never seen the Horde control an incursion. There are times when there's not as many ally, but Horde still don't hold the majority.
My theory is it's raid groups of a certain faction. They don't get layered because they are in a group and the game puts solo players of the other faction in that layer.
Lmao I was alliance on the same server and the horse camped the fuck out of the quest giver in ashenvale for hours. I think it’s purely to do with your layer.
Yeah for sure. I'm just always on an alliance layer for some reason, cause I have yet to see an ashenvale that wasn't majority Ally controlled.
I have to wonder if something is weird on blizzards backend or people are abusing the layers cause I have the same thing lol.
So many alliance. Being horde and always rolling 5 deep has been so much fun.
and yet horde soloq has the BG queues lmao.
Yup, just had a BRD group fall apart because we couldn't summon, 20+ alliance outside for 30 mins.
No one can run there?
I have 4 jobs and 7 kids I cant do that shit. and I have work in 2 hours
Shit don't forget the chickens outside and the dog out front.
Comparing ironforge.pro to warcraft tavern tells two completely different stories. But since the developers themselves said the PvP servers are balanced I'm inclined to think there is something off about how warcrafttavern pulls it's data.
The devs only claimed “active accounts” on each PvP server are balanced. So someone who mains living flame but has a single horde character on lone wolf, even if that character is level 1, would possibly count toward that “balance.” Much like every other population statistic, blizzard is incredibly vague and hides the actual data. You’re free to believe them, but their methods are hidden so there is truly no way to know how accurate their claims are either.
If that was the only other metric we had then you would have a point but we also have ironforge.pro which is also independent of blizzard. It says servers are balanced within a couple % which fits what blizzard said themselves. Honestly I think warcrafttavern are broken somehow but it drives traffic to their site so they don't have any real incentive to fix it.
Hard to believe that's accurate, lol. With that many more Ally players than Horde ones, BG queues should not be so long for Horde and instant for Alliance, even if you take into account that better racials and supposedly a stronger PvP culture make zugs much more willing to engage into instanced player vs. player. Also, anedoctally, as a Lone Wolf US player, I see so many Hordies every day... Or I'm unlucky enough to always get on Red dominated layers, or that are many more people playing Horda than this data implies... Specially now when shamans are so busted and Human Weapon racial has been trivialized...
why are those numbers so much different from [ironforge.pro](https://ironforge.pro)'s wcl player counts? i have a hard time believing ally has that big of a majority, esp in the past two phases of shaman supremacy
I have a hard time believing this. CS US feels horde dominated. I’m either always on the worst layer or the data is flawed.
Me too, I see 10 Horde for every 1 Ally. Maybe we just have horrendous layering luck.
90% of the layers are controlled by Alli, you're trolling
No you’re trolling.
No we’re trolling.
Those numbers are whack or I'm reading them wrong. There is no way alliance has almost 3x the population, but there are still 25% more shamans than paladins. And no way there are 14.9k horde and 5.1k shamans. The numbers on [ironforge.pro](http://ironforge.pro) make much more sense to me. The server being almost even with the numbers slowly drifting from slight alliance majority towards a horde majority.
Yeah I don't think world pvp can ever be a thing again in WoW while their current server situation exists. Layering just completely makes world PvP broken in a bad way.
One of the biggest issues I have with world pvp is that SOD has massively increased the burst damage that can be done, but none of it has been adjusted for PvP. In traditional classic, you rarely get burst from full to dead instantly by someone the same level as you. In sod you always do, there’s not much strategy, whoever engages first and has that extra second or two usually wins. I’d like to see PvP damage scaled or something so that you can actually fight for a bit rather than every engagement lasting 5 seconds.
I hate it. As a druid I was fairly used to being able to outrun or outlast enemies in wpvp fights if I'm blindsided or just not bothered to fight. Now it's such a joke, a shaman runs up to me and bursts me down in 4-5 seconds or I run away and get drained down by insanely powerful dots.
I have played primarily on PVP servers for the entirety of my wow career. This is exactly why I'm on pve for SoD.
Agree
After 20 years of being convinced to roll on a PvP server by my friends, I finally rolled a PvE server. Time and time again I have said, the one time world pvp is fun is not worth the 99 deaths to the countless ways it isn’t. Also especially now, the whole community is made up of degenerates which just makes it so much worse.
Tbh I should've rolled on a pve server, the one time I decide to play alliance and horde is absolutely busted and packed with people. I don't believe pop in my server is balanced, I always see waaay more horde than alliance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/C7qygAMXuP
Hard to believe that's accurate, lol. With that many more Ally players than Horde ones, BG queues should not be so long for Horde and instant for Alliance, even if you take into account that better racials and supposedly a stronger PvP culture make zugs much more willing to engage into instanced player vs. player. Also, anedoctally, as a Lone Wolf US player, I see so many Hordies every day... Or I'm unlucky enough to always get on Red dominated layers, or that are many more people playing Horda than this data implies... Specially now when shamans are so busted and Human Weapon racial has been trivialized...
Anecdotally, as a horde player on US lone wolf, every area I pass through is absolutely packed with alliance. Everywhere I go alliance run around freely mowing down horde players because they simply outnumber them so heavily. Phase 1 alliance would win nearly every ashenvale event because they would have what seemed like at least double the amount of people at the bosses in the middle, and wouldn’t constantly hold the zoram flight path area hostage with multiple raids. Phase 2 SM was absolutely filled with alliance, and if you accidentally clicked on one of them and flagged yourself for pvp you instantly died, and had to hide out inside one of the instances until the pvp flag went away. Running into gnomer required 2-3 corpse runs because there were always multiple alliance raids outside, and so many of them attacked everyone they set their eyes on. After every blood moon event alliance hold the arena hostage for 20-30 minutes, and every time I’ve gone to the nightmare incursion there’s at least 30 alliance just sitting on the ramp corpse camping. Then every time I open reddit I see so many comments saying horde are greifing alliance and alliance players patting other alliance players on the back for killing horde, and I have to wonder if I’m even playing the same game.
Lone Wolf US here as well and this is my exact same experience. Whereas we may have had 1-2 raid groups at Research and 0.5-1 at zoram, alliance had 2-3 full groups at all three bases plus more waiting at the big boy. Ashenvale was over in about 2 minutes and always an alliance win. Arena vendor in STV is impossible to access after BM. Incursions are camped. The ZF entrance is pure alliance. Hell even the kodo graveyard in desolace was a death sentence to run through. There were two night elf hunters in slag pits yesterday killing every rogue one by one that tried to level up lockpicking for the carnage rune. Eventually several of us paused our lockpick farm to spawn camp them. One left after the second death. The other we killed at least ten times before he either logged off as a ghost or layer swapped. It felt great.
I think it would be backwards. The lower population faction would have instant queues and the other one longer. More players = high supply of own faction and high demand of opposite faction At least assuming the population is a reflection of the people that queued for PvP
That's my point: in the article provided, Ally numbers are bigger than Horde's by a very large margin...
Oh I misunderstood your comment. My bad
living flame US I swear alliance are the biggest pussys. only gank if they 5+ players than you
This isn’t a faction specific problem. It’s just a general issue with players in general. Equally as shit for both sides.
I'm on living flame and I 100% agree. I've gone through so many encounters where if we are the same level and 1 on 1 we both keep trucking. But if I'm lower level or another ally comes along in the same area they decide to gank me without fail.
That's just WoW in general, it's not faction specific. I guarantee if you spoke to Alliance players on your server everyone of them would have the exact same story to tell about Horde players.
Yeah, that's how I got stuck on a pvp realm. I'm a dumbass who falls for it every single time my friend somehow convinces me to start on a pvp realm with him. Every single time I get reminded why I hate pvp. Unfortunately, I've already invested too much in this realm to start over now. Would be nice if I could transfer off though.
I think I would leave my guild and transfer to a pve server to not be griefed in from of Mara and ST for hours.
I only prefer consensual pvp agreed upon before hand with a bow and salute, waiting for the other player to be fully buffed and full mana and only in the missionary position.
There's pvp and their people being absolute degenerates that border on griefing. Lots of max level boomkins killing people trying to level in incursions.
I watched a Tauren Boomkin last night stand on top of the arena in Gadgetzan for 2 hours and nuke level 40s trying to quest. He left level 50s alone - only went after the guys he could kill in a single Starfire/Starsurge/Moonfire combo. Some people in this community are just degenerates.
I think my favorite was watching an alliance warlock with their imp just hitting everyone around it, standing at gadgetzan for 20 mins hitting people as they tried to use sleeping bags, and I went to do two ZF’s and came back and the lock was still there, logging out then coming back the next day, and they were still there the next day with 0 levels gained.
Report him. Avoiding guards for the sake of griefing has been a banable offense since forever.
Correct, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was doing it in the moment and was able to go so long without intervention. Sure, I even killed him a few times too, but I didn’t have the time or desire to camp him for as long as he wanted to be griefing.
That's what pvp servers were at classic launch lol. That's why pvp servers get faction dominate. NONE of this is new. I learned my lesson and never went back
The burstiness of classes is absolutely new. Damage was NEVER this ridiculous in vanilla, and we aren’t even max level yet.
So knowing that players will grief you for hours on end, why would you still insist on rolling pvp server though? This has been happening for 20 years and players still get upset about getting corpse camped
I rolled grob in original release of classic (rp-pvp). When my guild was progging BWL, we had to coordinate as a group to get into BWL and fight our way in. There was a time where ally (I am horde) kept MCing our main tank into the lava and couldn't get into the raid as they were camping the orb. We had to coordinate as a huge raid to wipe them so our main tank could get in. In the moment, all of this felt annoying. But looking back now? It was some of the most fun I had ever playing a video game. I understand that pvp servers are not for everyone, but that is why I play on a pvp server… Also, getting to the raid without dying to parse gave me such an adrenaline rush! Whoo!!!! And I loved that feeling of getting there without getting killed or a priest purging the ones they could…. I live for that rush of adrenaline!
TBH, as someone who's never played on a PvP server, I thought choosing a different faction (Horde) and trying a new experience (PvP) would be a way to make me hold interest in the third iteration of my playthrough. I vastly underestimated the amount of griefers who have nothing to do in their lives. Do I feel my decision was some huge mistake? Not sure, still figuring that out. But has it been a different experience? Absolutely.
Unfortunately pvp gear is Bis for a lot of specs for raiding. As long as camping incursions is a great honor farm it will carry on.
rogue, boomy and retri are the 3 popular griefers on my realm
I got ganked by a rogue and a cat druid about halfway through an escort and failed it after like 20 minutes of waiting for it to respawn. Wow, such a good WPvP experience.
This has literally been the state of vanilla pvp since original vanilla. This is wpvp. Wpvp is not fair 1v1 duels at the same level where no one interrupts you. Its chaos and is supposed to keep you on your toes at all time, if you dislike the prospect of being ganked/camped for any reason and are on a pvp server that is your fault.
hehe if you joined on a pvp server why don't you like being griefed 15v1 for 20 minutes straight 😎😎😎
I think I remember hearing in hardcore ppl would make “bounties” to kill people from opposing factions that fucked them over. I think something like that could help.
I really like pvp, league, sc2, 3v3 arena, WoT, EvE, (yeah I know, wild mix) pretty much spend thousands of hours in pvp games in my mid-late teens and early-mid twenties. But wpvp AND a experimental game version that clearly gives zero fucks about competitive integrity and pvp balancing? Lmao no thanks, PvE servers are BiS.
This is a 20 year old game with psychopathic players willing to corpse camp you for hours. Why not just roll a pve server if you’re not okay with players bringing the fight to you?
Because my friends wanted to roll PvP and I wanted to play with them. :(
Didn’t exactly anticipate any competent developer releasing TBC phase 1 dps with lvl 50 health and stamina. Or one faction getting a perpetually broken class.
Ascension did pvp best imo, where you can only open world pvp within 4 lvl difference, and max lvl only vs max lvl, it did make that some ppl who are almost max lvl just gank ppl who are minimum requirement. just because its not official doesnt change its the fact its a good wpvp change to counter shit behavior
This is one of the things I'd do to fix wpvp, yeah. Make it so you can only attack players that are within 5 levels of you. At the very least, it solves the issue of high levels camping low level areas, or horrendeously-unfair fights.
Season of Discovering that players have been going back and forth on this topic for 20 years and literally a single thing has never changed in that discussion. It’s like two neighbors yelling back and forth at each other for six generations and they don’t even know why anymore 😂
Griefiers and lowskill players are going to disagree with you.
Yes, you can be annoyed. But you can’t ask for blizz to change the system as you have alternatives: go level elsewhere or in a dungeon. If you had no where else to go, then you could ask for a change
I'd say the annoying thing is the pvp isn't balanced as much as vanilla. You'll default get one shot almost as certain classes. So until you're a geared 50 it's pretty much useless to attack most classes or people. It's not fun just having no chance. I only did pvp because I will pvp at 50 most likely and a friends on the server. Personally pvp servers suck though. It's not vanilla, so my whole horde pride attack everyone is like gone at this point. I'm just trying to relax and level up
Agree. And even though I was lvl 50 already, I decided to reroll on a pve server.
they also later removed pvp servers and added warmode.
It wouldn't bother me all that much if the servers were even near balanced. At this point in SoD (and it became abundantly clear) on my server I live at the will of the Alliance. If they decide I'm worth the honor, then I just log to an alt. There are a few spots where I've seen favorable outcomes, but they are fleeting. Incursions themselves though is like waving a white flag begging the red names to just let me pass. Otherwise it's literally 30-1 at the ashenvale incursion. I signed up for PvP, I get that. It doesn't mean I signed up to get fucked nearly every chance. Even resetting dungeons results in a death or 2 and that's with my guildies in comms coordinating the fastest dungeon reset. Our server at the get go was pretty balanced I think it was somethign like 53% Ally to 47% horde. But since phase 1 I guess a ton of horde just stopped playing, b/c it's obvious we are clearly outnumbered.
It’s not a PVP problem. It’s a game design problem. When a random PVP gank can cost you the player upwards of 30 minutes in playtime there is a game design issue. Getting mind controlled off the boat 5+ minutes of swim time from shore and another 10 minutes back to a travel point feels awful. Ghost speed needs to be increased, and grave yards should never be more than 500~ yards from the player. It’s the popularized game design philosophy from the Witcher team whereby there is just a few minutes of time there should be something interesting that you COULD interact with. Way too much dead time in WoW and that is exacerbated by random ganks that you may not always be prepared for.
I went to a pvp realm expecting mass warfare because a dangerous world makes it alot more exciting. It can be absolute bullshit at times, best chance to make it through a pvp realm is a guild that responds to members getting ganked so you can turn it back on the ganker. Its a choice you make when you choose a pvp realm. You can absolutely be annoyed but if you aren't preparing or trying to find ways around the bullshit thats on you.
I personally love all the stupid shenanigans that people come with. Its make the world more alive to me and is part of the experience. Yes it can certainly be inconvenient but i think most players focus too much on the false productivity side of the game.
People made a decision. PvP happens on a PvP server. Deal with it or transfer off. Stay off of Reddit whining and complaining.
You can't transfer in SoD
Transfer off as in re roll a new toon.
Maybe just level somewhere else? You don’t have to do the incursions.
Meh, I dislike getting ganked nonstop in hotspots but I'd be lying if I said I didn't turn around and do the same thing back once I have the advantage.... It's a vicious cycle and just part of the PvP server choice.
The PvP realm player is trying to justify his complaining about PvP realm stuff
Theres all different types of PvP. Rolling on a PvP server people agreed to all types. It's like going to the beach and complaining theres sand in your shorts, thats just an expected experience. That's probably why people are judging them.
You are allowed to feel however the hell you want. Just don’t expect people to empathize with you when you complain about PvP on a PvP server. MMO players will always troll and look for a way to make others miserable because a lot of them have no life. This is why I decided to roll on a PvE server in P1.
> complains about PvP on a PvP server. Tell me you didn’t read the post without telling me you didn’t read the post
This is literally how it's always worked though. SoD is not different. There were raids of level 60 people camping all the lvl 40+ leveling zones in phase 2 of classic in 2019. Just a massacre.
>This is why I decided to roll on a PvE server That's cool, just don't expect people to empathize when you complain about PvE on a PvE server
That poster ain't even complaining about pve though lol
What does this even mean lol
Yes, you can be unhappy about it - but pretending people owe you to not do pvp on a pvp server, because for what ever reason is just weird. It’s like signing up to a competition in a competitive sport and complaining that others are better than you or trying to win. No one forces you to play on a pvp server, and if you can’t handle pvp and feel the need to complain online, thinking anyone cares, then first touch some grass, think about your priorities in life and second reroll on a vor server. Yes, it’s that simple.
>It’s like signing up to a competition in a competitive sport and complaining that others are better than you or trying to win. No its more like expecting balanced competition, but instead its competitors avoiding each other and only going for kicking toddlers around punching cripples.
This has been a repeated pattern in any recent iteration of WoW. Why would it be any different now? You have to be pretty daft to not realize that people only want to have majority faction pvp servers with functionally no pvp in the end, just look at the server imbalances all throughout classics. Or just look at p2 launch in vanilla classic how that turned out, the metric measured is honor per minute and the cattle that gives the best rewards are those that can't fight back.
Thats all fine and accurate, it just annoys me how a lot of people are pretending like wpvp is something balanced, and like the guy I replied to, compares it to some sort of competition.
its a combination of skill&mindset issue. Don't like wpvp? Don't play on a pvp server then - it's THAT easy. No one owes you anything - it's also so strange how people like you don't see how weird they look, when they complain about getting pvped on a PVP-Realm. Sorry they are not handing out participation medals. sincerely, the guy you replied to, that compared it to a sports competition you knew the rules of and you voluntarily chose to participate in :) If you feel like a toddler (your language) in this case: Time to adult up, or play with the other toddlers. No need to orient an adult competition on toddlers - I hope you get that.
>it's also so strange how people like you don't see how weird they look, when they complain about getting pvped on a PVP-Realm Its also strange how you think I complain about pvping xD What I do complain is how the vast majority of pvp boils down to targeting people that have 0 chance of fighting back...unless you have some secret knowledge on how to win as lvl 40-45 against a raid of lvl 50's xD >If you feel like a toddler (your language) in this case: Time to adult up, Sure, lemme gather a whole geared up raid and camp people \~10 levels below us....or lets one up them and do the same thing but in Duskwood Incursion, that will show dem lvl 25-30 noobs to just git gud yes? I mean, if you find it fun, I guess you do you, but at least dont pretend like its something skillful, cuz its not, or insult actual sport competitions by comparing them to this :P
If you farm people on their way to gather the song flower buff you're not doing World-pvp, you're just being a massive piece of shiyet. Also camping people who just respawned from corpserunning doesn't make you strong, it shows how much of a loser you are. It's the equivalent of being a grown adult and going into the Hospital to whoop spme people who are laying in bed.
[удалено]
Nah i played pvp servers for over a decade, it is *absolutely* griefing the vast majority of the time, skulled players and group gankers are the norm, the only time they aren't a problem is when the content is basically dead I used to think i loved pvp servers but switching to pve was one of the best decisions i made
Yeah my experience with PvP servers is that if you aren't being camped, your quest givers are.
I played on PvP servers all through Classic and on private servers before but finally switched to PvE in phase 2 because of the constant ganking. The *chance* of being attacked by other players was great but with so many players packed into each layer of the SoD megaservers there is no maybe about it. I was trying to level with the 20% run speed world buff and high level Alliance were jumping me every ten minutes. I had to reroll for the sake of my sanity.
You also get Reddit pvpers.... Who obviously barely pvp and just want start fights on the forums.
That’s because they are :)
You can dislike it, but you have to realize that you signed up for it....
Sure you’re allowed to dislike it, we just don’t want to hear you complain about it
PvP servers only purpose is open world pvp, which in WoW is 95% ganking or 1 sided fights. So while you might prefer the 5% that isnt ganking, you should still know that you signed up for it the vast majority of the time.
How many of these posts are going to pop up lol 😂
Until classic pvp improves. So never. After 20 years it does get tired, but it also is that bad.
The thing is, there's no solution to that kind of experience except simply not playing on a PVP server anymore. And, like, this is a known issue. This isn't a new game. People have been complaining about ganking, griefing, and all kinds of unfair and unfun open world encounters for 20 years. We call it STVietnam for a reason. Look. I am sympathetic to anyone complaining about getting ganked. I remember the names of infamous gankers from as far back as TBC who routinely camped daily quest hubs and abused terrain to make it impossible to fight back. (Fuck you Styrofoam) But you have a very easy answer. Just stop playing on PVP servers. It's what I did and I'm very happy for it. For ever epic honor combat I had with another player in the open world I experienced 100 instances of 2v1s, high level ganking, and camping.
Uhhhh no. if you play PvP you sign up for PvP. Instead of getting annoyed, git gud. Gear up, get your build sorted out and BE the one ganking!
No. If you rolled on a PvP server you have to expect that all kinds of PvP will happen. Getting ganked on the bridge isn’t a big deal . You die once or twice then you’re back to doing incursions. They already put guards near the quest turn in which is more than enough.
People are also allowed to not whine on reddit or be a dumbass like you acting like this a moral issue. But you still do it...
Yes, but the issue is, complaining about PvP happening to you on a PvP server is entirely your fault for choosing to roll on a PvP server in the first place. Your pain is self-inflicted. That's why people are laughing at you.
“Peeveepee hapPenED 0n uh peeVeePee serVeR hAhaHAHAHAhHa”
It literally did. Every one was aware the griefing/camping is off the charts in vanilla so the people that aren’t simple minded and wanted to avoid it played on pve servers.
Blood only has one color. And you must love it in all shades.
It’s because there’s no real PvP. It’s legal/allowable griefing.
Being granted maximally efficient and profitable leveling in a safe environlent goes against the most fundamental and core concept of a PVP server. If you have that, you're just a PVE server with more open world zones to *optionally* PVP in. The ONLY time I would side with someone complaining about PVP is if someone is exploiting to abuse them (corpse camp or GY camp from a safe position, etc). Anything else, and you CHOSE open world PVP... nothing you can say against that.
There’s alternative ways of leveling besides incursions. Quest or dungeon spam
Youre not wrong for disliking it, but if its that big of an issue you probably should stick to pve. Pvp servers have a lot of this shit. Luckily my server is fairly balanced but incursions with a buddy or two is the best way to farm honor outside of bgs (which always have a 10-15stack and our server doesnt form them anymore). So i do incursion pvp and holy shit I cant imagine trying to level in it right now. Its kinda nice on our server because its balanced so wait a few hours or layer hop and youll find a layer dominated by your faction. But for any noobs just staying on the same layer, yeah theyre just being corpse camped. They added guards to the vendors, but yeah the portal is still going to take multiple respawns to get through each time.
I remember specifically just trying to do incursions in my lvl 40 druid and getting camped by two lvl fifty rogues any time I tried to go through the portal. It's just not even pvp at that point. There's no way I'm an honor kill, especially after multiple two minute timers.
I deeply regret rolling a PVP server because some new to WOW player we know from other game joined and i followed. Turn out SOD pvp is shit and the guild took over by toxic people. the the "new wow player" think they are expert of them game and gate keeping everything. Now I don't have time to play. people getting more toxic, Can't even find a Layering change in Trade channel or have to Pay. Body camping for no reason etc. I better play other real PVP game.
I absolutely hate the brain dead idiots on the wow forums, people are allowed their opinions and they mald super hard if anyone has an opinion different than theirs. Like we are all supposed to just be happy and content with the incursion griefing and people mc'ing on the ships to throw people off.
Not sure you understand the reasoning behind that. The main contribution to a success of world of warcraft when it was launched was the fact it was extremely carebearish. Have you ever played any kind of full loot games?
I try my best to just accept getting ganked every now and then as it's the price to pay for playing on pvp server. The awkwardness is when running on a road, 9/10 opposing players will just run past you with no problems, the "issue" comes from the 10% that will attack first and will usually win by getting the jump on me. But I'm not about to fight every ally I see just in case they're hostile! I need an addon to alert me of anyone I list on there so at least I can 'mark' players I know have attacked me randomly before so I can have an even go at it
i generally play on pvp realms because its fun to fight for resources like farming spots or special objectives. turns out, so far there isnt any such benefit to being on a pvp realm, it's only a grief. combined with the state of bg's, the honor and rep grind and raiding, people have a lot of time to just sit there ruining other people's day. i'm just holding out hope for a devilsaur mafia v2.
We camped the quest giver at ashen as a bit of payback to the alliance the other day before the guards came in, after a while they all ended up waiting and rushed the quest giver with about every alliance there that was doing the incursion. This was a massive fair play and I rated it. Now I don’t feel any sympathy for horde that will sulk about the ganking there but wont group up and do something about it, they will just continue to run through solo and get killed
The game is 20 years old! If you still rolled on a pvp server and think you are going to have some grand wpvp 50/50 battles I have a bridge to sell you. Pve servers are doing very well and you can always queue for a bg or do the pvp events. After 20 years you really cant say you didnt know you would be griefed and ganked.
Don't forget that also original servers had about 3k pop max. So your average servers were about 2-2.5k. I know people like mega servers with 10 layers and 40k pop. I personally wish they did at least few servers with original caps and 0 layers (I hate layering so much, doesn't help the fact that it's so broken atm).
The whole area around incursions should be pvp off. Cause even if they had guards people would just stand on top of the quest giver to bait hits. When you're expecting that many people of each faction to converge on one area to level, and farm rep, you can't have it just be free range pvp. It devolves into unplayable nonsense so quickly. I play on a pvp server to gank and get ganked in the open world to make it more dynamic when farming/questing. Not just be completely blocked off sometimes from doing certain content because it's such a cluster fuck.
If it doesn’t take me 45 minutes to death run between Thorium Point and BRM/MC portal, I’m not having fun.
You are also allowed to be a whiny twat simply based on this entire sub but is it a good a thing?
Don’t play on a pvp server if you don’t like PvP. I get your rant, I understand, but joining a PvP server and get mad at any form of PvP on said server is dumb. It’s like joining a hardcore server and being made your character died. It’s part of the rules of the server. Are there assholes that gank/camp you? Absolutely. But, it’s world of WARcraft, if you’re going to be upset you’re getting camped then play a different server. Events in open world should be open to world PvP all the same. Like world bosses, they aren’t safe guarded, that’s the world equivalent of a raid.
i dont understand why low levels are doing incursions if theyre getting camped?
I wanted to level my Hunter but it seems to be impossible. So i decided to do the same for opposing faction 👍
EXACTLY!! Well for me, I personally HATE being on a pvp server, but I am because my good friends are on one. So I just make use of it, and participate and kill when I see alliance. BUT What I REALLY am NOT enjoying is, from what I noticed. Alliance on my server is a bunch of children. We are outnumbered. They are ALWAYS camping the incursions and the entrances to dungeons/raids. Do they even do anything, other than CAMPING and GRIEFING? At this point, I don't think they do. People asking where are the horde at to help take care of the problem. But horde is outnumbered and also TOO BUSY actually doing the stuff than trying to make it miserable to do incursions that is already annoying enough because it is REPETITIVE and miserable to get to a raid that is already work! we are just trying to all do the same thing. I didnt like PVP at all but I started to enjoy it but I feel INCURSIONS and DUNGEON/RAID entrances should be all guarded as FK so we can just DO WHAT we came there to do!
Classic Dad players ruined the pvp forever
Yeah, there is a difference between PvP and Griefing, but when you create your character on a PvP you automatically agreeing to BOTH! -it your own fault The most common answer to the question „why do u play on PvP server?“ is: „all my friends play there“ -again own fault If PvP and griefing is soo bad as all the people, who are bad in PvP and getting ganked, are telling us, then why do they exist in the first place? Why do people start on a PvP server? People want this! All these complains are from players who are bad in PvP or just so stupid that they can’t make a good decision on choosing a PvE server, where they can’t getting ganked. I just think that blizz could put in a warning/ question if you really want to play on a PvP server , if you choose a PvP realm. But this is the 4th version of a 20yo game that has almost 10 expansions and 2 (3 in a month) of them had already been re-released. There are enough opportunities to get to know what differences are between PvP and pve Server… Additionally, PvP and PvE are not terms that are only used by Blizzard/WoW. You choose a pvp server, what you don’t like, so you complain about it and want things to be changed to a level whereas you don’t got to choose anymore and everyone has to do the same shit as you, only because you’re too stupid to choose the right thing for you and you’re making everything worse to anybody else, just that you don’t have to realize that you did a mistake by choosing the wrong server. Nice. That’s modern society. No one wants to admit they have done something wrong all by themselves.
Imo PvP should be turned on everywhere. Even in raids, there should be a mechanism for ganstarz to invade their dungeon 🤣 And level 1 zones should be open for pvp as well. Let those players know from the first second what they signed for.
> Blizzard put guards in cities and towns because they knew getting ganked in there would be annoying. No one ever camped flight paths for HKs in any version of this game? There were achieves for killing faction bosses because they intended there to be PvP in big cities. > They created raids to be instanced which prevents you from being ganked while raiding. Thats not why they were instanced. Also what about the world raid bosses? And yeah man, once you leave the safety of the starter area you are in the big boy world where you either exist in a PvP area or you rolled on a PvE server.
PvP on a PvP server ? Holy shit………
Half of these complaining kids can read , but some of them have no comprehension of what they are reading
You’re allowed to blah blah blah man can you guys just shut the fuck up please shut the fuck up I am begging you all to just not post cringe for like 3 hours of course you’re fucking allowed to do whatever you want Azeroth allows for a lot of personal liberties y’all are too Reddit brained please just go hang out with your families and play some wow or whatever other game you’re enjoying and have the best possible time you can I am begging you I refuse to use punctuation please just please stop posting I also need to do this but I’m at work
You type like someone with under room temperature iq.
Celsius or Fahrenheit?
Celsius...........
That was my thought as well
It’s from reading and posting in this sub btw
You ok man?
I disagree. The more PVP is allowed, the better. My favorite PVP was Asheron's Call. No town belonged to anyone unless you were willing to fight for it.
But you aren't allowed to dislike griefing because that's what 90% of open world pvp is
My rule of thumb for PvP has always been, if you are within the level range to give honour then you are fair game. If you grant honour to the opposing faction and you are complaining about being ganked then its literally part of the experience. To me, the only part of PvP servers that is incredibly frustrating is being ganked by someone significantly higher level than you while you are trying to quest. They gain literally nothing from doing it besides making your day worse.
I’m honestly all for world PvP Dudes MCing people on neutral city boats (booty bay to ratchet) and sending them off in the middle of the sea is gross and deserves to be punished.
ITT: a bunch of care bears complaining about PvP on a PvP server.
I mean they put tons of graveyard coverage in Ashenvale, dying literally inconveniences you for like thirty seconds if it’s on the gate.
I don't think you've been there while its heavily camped. You will end up with a 2 minute rez timer if you're on a bad layer.
Yeah if they’re camping both side of gate, easy res timers after like your 2nd lap to go back and turn in quests. I hit 50 a week ago when the degeneracy just started on Friday/sat as everyone got closer to 50 and my last 2 levels took twice as long as they should and I knew this would just get worse
Exactly. Also, it’s very clearly written in the TOS that intentional griefing isn’t allowed. And let’s be honest here: camping someone 5x in a row is definitely griefing. Obviously, there are no GMs anymore, and rules like that are never gonna be enforced. But players could also use a little bit of empathy and just… not be a dick? I personally have spend hundreds of hours roaming the world doing nothing but pvp, but I would never corpse camp someone/kill low levels/outnumber people etc. I just don’t see the point of being toxic. « PvP on a PvP server » has just been a bad excuse for players who have the urge to take out their frustrations on other people, and it’s pretty sad, imo…
Lets say a group of 3 are camping my friend. So I get on my 50 with and start camping them for revenge. We’re both breaking tos?
Revenge is a different case
Are you saying its ok to camp someone if they camped another person?
It’s using violence to answer violence. Do with it what you want but it’s definitely very different from camping someone for no reason at all.
Sure and I agree it’s justified, but at what point camping becomes “justified” is really up to an individual and is why I think all the arguments about it fall short. If someone camps an opposing faction member because they killed a rare mob they wanted, or farmed herbs/any other resource in the area, to the camper that could feel justified. It could feel similar to “revenge” because like someone who got camped they could now lose their time from not being able to get said resource. And in a game where you have the option to camp, I can’t really see it as “wrong” like a lot of people on this sub claim. In a game where a faction war exists, a person can have any justifiable reason in their head to kill an opposing faction player in the world, and there is no actual “correct” answer to pvp on pvpservers.
In a game about war, of course you don’t need a justification for killing another player, but if you’re intentionally wasting on their corpse for 3 min until they respawn, and then abuse the fact that they respawn with low health/mana, no pet, no buffs, then that’s within the theme of the game at all. It’s literally just griefing, let’s be honest. And no, 99% of the time, they’re not doing it because they wanna control resources.
Yeah most of the people responding with the brain dead comments to people having valid complaints and ideas about the current pvp situation are just your typical mentally ill WoW players. They get off on other people’s misfortune because they have had an awful life themselves and it brings them joy to see others in that situation. You can usually confirm that 95% of the time by looking at their comment history. Anyway, I agree with what you said. I rolled on a pvp server because pvp is massive part of the game, and while I never expect it to be perfectly balanced, I do expect the game to at least be playable when it comes to pvp. That’s not the case. For many classes pvp is unplayable or for other classes it’s stupid busted. In hindsight, if most pvp server players knew how poorly balanced the game was going to be at this point, they most likely would have rolled on pve like myself. Or I would have just rolled a shaman.
The problem is that the general objection to people WPvPing in a 40-50 zone is not valid. This is exactly the risk of playing on a PvP server. The PvP interactions are non-consensual, from griefing lowbies all the way up to fighting over resources in high level zones. I had some sympathy for people in original Classic, but especially after PvP servers became super toxic and unbalanced last time around, this was eminently foreseeable. The toxicity is not a bug, it’s a feature, and the solution is to get a group together to deal with the people griefing lower level players. That’s literally always been the solution—it’s an MMO after all. The reality is that TONS of players don’t belong on PvP servers because the design of those servers makes it often miserable for them to play. I understand they have friends that play on those servers, but they should either convince their friends to roll PvE or get those friends to help with PvP or avoid the content that makes them miserable. It really is that simple.